#linguistics posting

[casualfoxwitch]

[kinnbig]

I somehow never realised Perth’s name wasn’t actually Perth and now my mind is sort of blown. I get confused at how Thai names work anyway so I shouldn’t be surprised, but 🤯

fjckskc I mean Perth is his name, in the same way that Apo’s name is Apo and Nodt’s name is Nodt, but they’re just not their legal names.

and I can try and explain it! (or Perth explains it rlly well in this video lol)

basically! in Thailand, in most situations people are referred to by their used name (also called a nickname or a play name) rather than by their legal first name.

used names, like first names, are often given at birth, but unlike first names they’re not recorded on legal documentation such as birth certificates. last names are often long and aren’t used very often - it’s not uncommon for good friends to not know each other’s last names.

in general western naming convention, you would probably refer to someone by just their first name, or as ‘first name + last name’. someone might have a nickname that they prefer to their legal first name, and in these cases you might refer to them as ‘nickname + last name’.

but the convention for Thai names is to refer to people most of the time with either their used name, or as

‘used name + first name’

(with some exceptions, such as legal/business situations and in the credits of TV/movies).

sometimes you might also see someone’s ‘full name’ written or said as

‘used name + first name + last name’

eg mydramalist writes Mile Phakphum Romsaithong and Nodt Nutthasid Panyangarm.

but generally, you’d say/write either just someone’s used name, or ‘used name + first name’ in most contexts.

if you were talking about Apo Nattawin, for example - Nattawin is his first name, and Apo is his used name (his last name is Wattanagitiphat). because of TV crediting convention, he is credited as Nattawin Wattanagitiphat in the KinnPorsche credits - but he refers to himself as Apo Nattawin, and that is the name others use for him in most situations.

some more quick (random) examples from the KinnPorsche cast -

Tong Thanayut - ‘full name’ Tong Thanayut Thakoonauttaya, credited as Thanayut Thakoonauttaya - but referred to as Tong or Tong Thanayut

Barcode Tinnasit - ‘full name’ Barcode Tinnasit Isarapongporn, credited as Tinnasit Isarapongporn - but referred to as Barcode or Barcode Tinnasit

there are exceptions, obviously - although it’s more common to introduce yourself as ‘used name + first name’, Bible often introduces himself as Wichapas Sumettikul, then adds “or Bible” as an addendum (possibly because he had a more western upbringing) - but he still tends to be referred to as Bible Wichapas in most contexts.

Perth Nakhun is just one big exception lmao. Nakhun isn’t his first name or his last name - it’s a shortened version of Nakhuntanagarn, his mother’s last name. Perth Nakhun is more of a Thai stage name - by ‘typical’ conventions he would be referred to as Perth Stewart lol (and I have actually seen him referred to this way a few times in articles). interestingly (to me, at least), his ‘full name’ seems to be considered to be Perth Nakhun Screaigh, with Nakhun treated as his legal first name. so he gets credited as Nakhun Screaigh - even though Nakhun is not actually his first name. the TV credits follow the typical convention (Perth Nakhun Screaigh -> Nakhun Screaigh) rather than actually crediting with ‘first name + last name’. idk if this was Perth’s choice or just what happened but it’s interesting!

(Jeff Satur is also a stage name - though unlike with Perth, it seems to be considered his ‘full name’ and is also what is used in his TV credits)

anyway that got kind of long (and very colourful! I love colour coding!) but I hope it was somewhat helpful 🥰

[plutoarttv]

the slide to type feature on iphones is the physical equivalent of schwa

[thepandalion]

did the syntax (my beloathed) final exam like 3 hours ago or so

currently reading fanfic

came across a sentence featuring the verb "want" and immediately go "oh! SC/ECM! hi!!" like a fucking. idiot. oh my fucking god I already did the test can the knowledge leave my fucking brain

[kwekstra]

Highlights from the conference room where they nominated contenders for Word of the Year 2023:

• They put Skibidi Toilet on the projector to explain what “skibidi” means.

• Baby Gronk was mentioned.

• We discussed the Rizzler.

• “Cunty” was nominated.

• “Enshittification” was suggested for EVERY category.

• “Blue Check” (like from Twitter) was briefly defined as “Someone who will not Shut The Fuck Up”

• The person writing notes briefly defined babygirl as “referencing [The Speaker]”. He is now being called babygirl in the linguist groupchats.

• MULTIPLE people raised their hand to say “I cannot stress this enough: ���Babygirl’ refers to a GROWN MAN”

[adhd-languages]

i’m obsessed with these…

(From DepthOfWikipedia on Instagram)

[fozmeadows]

fact: when pidgin dialects involve english, -glish becomes the suffix, eg: chinglish, konglish, hinglish fact: slash pair name order puts the top first and the bottom second, eg: deancas vs casdean conclusion: english is an uke language and that’s why we have an omegaverse, not an alphaverse

[randomwordzard]

the ladies call me the subjunctive mood the way I express desire, wishes, uncertainty, doubt and fear

[bucephaly]

Theres moreeee, this is so so good.. it makes me emotional realizing that these kids are on the path to being fluent cherokee speakers and will be able to keep the language going.

This family is a part of the little cherokee seeds program, creating new first language Cherokee speakers by paying mothers to just bring their babies and craft and cook and speak cherokee with cherokee elders all day. There are only 1500 first language Cherokee speakers, most of them over 65. They also take donations if you want to help keep them going and doing the extremely important work they do!!

[aphel1on]

AuDHD is so funny sometimes like what do you mean my hyperfixations/special interests will last for years on end or possibly forever but they will cycle out every month or two with absolutely no transitional period or warning. like i will think about the same topic every day obsessively for 46 days in a row and on the 47th day with no visible cause adhd brain goes "ok! bored of that now" and autism brain goes "dw i got something queued up for ya" and i blast into full blown obsession on some other topic whose mental file folders haven't opened in 9 months. brain's out here treating hyperfixations like a crop rotation. once the dopamine runs out it cycles in another one but once something's in the rotation it never ever leaves. last summer we brought in one from when i was 11. it's so funny to me but frustrating too bc like. i cannot stress enough my inability to predict or control this. or how completely abrupt and random it can be

[kinnbig]

I just started learning Thai so I’m interested. What is the difference between jing and jingjing? On your tags about favorite Thai words

oh! so in Thai, repeating an adjective turns it into an adverb.

in this case, jing is an adjective that means true or real or honest, and jingjing is an adverb that means really, trully, honestly. they're just my favourite Thai words because I like the way they sound lol.

my other favourite is ning, which doesn't have a perfect English translation but that you might recognise from My Engineer. it means cool as in (a person who is) cold, distant, or aloof, or alternatively calm and self-controlled. it's often used sarcastically when describing other people. ningning is an adverb that means something like carefully or calmly - you hear people saying "ningning!" to tell someone to calm down or take more care. kind of like "chill out!" in English lol. I like these because their English translations are so interesting! and because of RamKing and ai'Ning, obviously.

[existencebringsonlypain]

ex: leggings → jeggings, shorts → jorts

[alcedeerie]

🪄 lingwizard Follow

Magilinguistics and magiconlinguistics are so underrated. The idea that the specific language and syntax used to cast a spell can alter the efficiency and flow of a spell is amazing; it’s honestly infuriating how many people, including many mages, think Latin is the only valid conjuring language even though glossolalia is a WELL-DOCUMENTED PHENOMENON. I use many other languages in various spells and it’s really fun. Would recommend.

🪶 featherspells Follow

YOU CAN DO THAT? YOU CAN TRANSLATE LATIN SPELLS INTO A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE AND THEY’LL WORK!?! EVEN YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE?!

🌱 gandalfbignaturals Follow

Yeah, welcome to the club! Using your native language isn’t recommended for summoning forces from other realms, though. The portals tend to collapse if you do that.

🗝️ keytomychest Follow

Wait wait wait, I just consulted my familiar about this, is magiconlinguistics modifying or inventing an entire language to optimize your magic? Because that sounds like something both extremely commendable and also batshit insane.

🌳 druid-ruin Follow

Yeah, that’s basically exactly what it is. We’re surprisingly pretty chill. I mean, except for that one time where someone hyper-optimized Taikureiden Suomen Kieli V5 to create the first, and most dangerous, known instance of the Everything-Damage Fireball spell, but we usually don’t talk about that.

🪄 lingwizard Follow

Ah, Taikureiden Suomen Kieli, the most absolutely broken magilang to ever exist. Go Finland, give us more fucked-up spells!

🪶 featherspells Follow

wait, the Everything-Damage Fireball is REAL? I thought you guys were joking.

🌳 druid-ruin Follow

We WERE joking. ONCE.

🔥 icastfireball Follow

on one hand, this is really cool and all, but on the other hand, i'm scared of what this can do. However, on the secret third hand, i kinda wanna modify a language to make demonic creatures physically sick upon hearing it, cause i wanna do a little trolling.

🪄 lingwizard Follow

Grand Mage Amara Lightningchain coming up with the idea for the Volapük Silananazunik experiments be like:

🔥 icastfireball Follow

hold on let me look something up

🔥 icastfireball Follow

wh. what the fuck

[haru-dipthong]

Did you know that the english word “star” and the japanese word 星（ほし）don’t actually mean the same thing?

Language does not simply name pre-existing categories; categories do not exist in 'the world'

— Daniel Chandler, Semiotics for Beginners

I read this quote a few years ago, but I don’t think I truly understood it until one day, when I was looking at the wikipedia article for “star” and I thought to check the Japanese article, see if I could get some Japanese reading practice in. I was surprised to find that the article was not titled 「星」, but 「恒星」, a word I’d never seen before. I’d always learnt that 星 was the direct translation for “star” (I knew the japanese also contained meanings the english didn’t, like “dot” or “bullseye”, but I thought these were just auxiliary definitions in addition to the direct translation of “star” as in "a celestial body made of hydrogen and helium plasma").

To try and clear things up for myself, I searched japanese wikipedia for 星. It was a disambiguation page, with the main links pointing to the articles for 天体 (astronomical object) and スター（記号）(star symbol). There was no article just called 「星」.

It’s an easy difference to miss, because in everyday conversation, 星 and star are equivalent. They both describe the shining lights in the night sky. They both describe this symbol: ★. They even both describe those enormous celestial objects made of plasma.

But they are different - different enough to not share a wikipedia article. 星 is used to describe any kind of celestial body, especially if it appears shiny and bright in the night sky. “Star” can be used this way too (like Venus being called the “morning star”), but it’s generally considered inaccurate to use the word like this, whereas there is no such inaccuracy with 星. You can say “oh that’s not actually a star, it’s a planet”, but you CAN’T say 「実はそれは星ではなく惑星だよ」 (TL: that’s not actually a hoshi, it’s a planet). A planet IS a 星.

星 is a very common word, essentially equivalent to “star”, but its meaning is closer to “celestial body”. I haven’t looked into the etymology/history but it’s almost like both english and japanese started out with a simple, common word for the lights in the sky - star/星 , but as we found out more about what these lights actually were, english doubled down on using the common word for the specific scientific concept, while japanese kept the common word generic and instead came up with a new word for the more specific concept. If this is actually what happened, I’d guess that kanji probably had something to do with it - 星 as a component kanji exists inside the word for planet, 惑星, and in the word for comet, 彗星, and in the scientific word for “star”, 恒星, so it makes sense that it would indicate a more general concept when used standalone.

This discovery helped me understand that quote - categories don’t exist in the world, we are the ones who create them. I thought that the concept of “star” was something that would be consistent across all languages, but it’s not, because the concept of “star” is not pre-existing. Each language had to decide how to name each of those similar star-like concepts (the ★ symbol, hot balls of gas, twinkling lights in the sky, planets, comets, etc), and obviously not every language is going to group those concepts under the same words with the same nuance.

Knowing this, one might be tempted to say that 恒星（こうせい） is the direct translation for “star”. But this isn’t true either. In most of the contexts that the word “star” is used in english, the equivalent japanese will be simply 星. Despite the meanings not lining up exactly, 星 will still be the best translation for “star” most of the time. This is the art of translation - knowing when the particulars are less important than the vibe or feel of a word. For any word, there will never be an exact perfect translation with all the same nuances and meanings. Translation is about finding the best solution to an unsolvable problem. That's why I love it.

[thepandalion]

in pronouns class