#like. she has so much power over Odysseus

[katerinaaqu]

Hello, I have a question. I am not far in my Odyssey reading and I was wondering about the suitors.

In Epic (yes, you hate it I know, but it's my ref for now) the suitors want to SA Penelope, it is explicitly said. I was wondering if in the OG story, the suitors also wanted to harm her in that way or if they didn't have such intentions.

Hate is a strong word but if there is something that I hate is this whole obsession with people treating mythology of my culture as clean slate and free game to do whatever with and spreading so much misinformation about it or have the obsession to change it to THAT degree in the first place. The musical I think it got straight out disrespectful and ridiculous to the original material plot-wise but I do recognize the passion of the people working on it and I appreciate people who regardless of their like or dislike for it that they are curious to find out on the original Odyssey and they do not consider this musical as some sort of equivalent to the original or substitute to it. My disagreement and dislike for it as well as my annoyance that it takes over social media is strictly my business and mind and has nothing to do with fans of course. I also am against fan mentality for greek mythology because mythology is a rich cultural background and important thing to Greek culture and not another fandom like Harry Potter or lord of the Rings or anything. But of course there is nothing I can do about this mentality either

Anyways I am glad you wanna ask on it.

No that was never said in the Odyssey. That seems like yet another piece of random bullocks for the musical to make the suitors even more "evil" and dislikable. However the suitors DID want to force Penelope to choose one of them as her husband so they obviously wanted to force her to marry. They abused the custom of Xenia or hospitality to stay in the palace for 3 to 4 years while eating and drinking everything and doing basically a psychological war to Penelope, harassing Telemachus with their words or insulting him and they would generally be rude or even abusive to slaves and servants that were loyal to Odysseus. They also lay with the several slave girls at the palace that apparel entered the relationship to gain something while others like Penelope's protégé, a girl named Melantho that Penelope raised from infantry like her own daughter, was apparently in love with one of the suitors. The slave girls betrayed Penelope's secret to the suitors (that she was pretending to make the future funeral shroud for Laertes and at night she was destroying it and starting again in the morning, thus keeping the suitors at bay for 3 years only to be discovered at the 4th).

The suitors definitely wanted to force Penelope to get married and they seemed ready to commit even the murder of Odysseus IF he were to come back (of course that seemed more like boasting than anything else since they were almost certain beyond doubt that Odysseus was dead). Later when Telemachus gained courage by Athena to travel and search information on his father (the part of Odyssey called "Telemachy") they got worried and conspired to murder him and set an ambush for him.

All in all the suitors did many things that are downright criminal such as the conspiracy for murder of Telegony and abusing the law of Xenia. They undoubtedly wanted to force Penelope to marry one of them and they were furious at her trick but no it was never stated in the Odyssey that they would...barge into her room and have their way with her. If they wanted to they would have done it from day one. Penelope was a powerful queen and they were all fascinated by her (when she comes out of her room everyone turns to look at her). So yeah basically their main goal was to force her to marry one of them and they planned Telemachus's murder only when he started gaining confidence and they got worried he might take over the throne himself soon. Also most of them were around the same age group as Telemachus (about a decade or so older perhaps) which increased their worry on what if Telemachus took over.

[redeemed-wren]

Calypso is not a character that I LIKE but she is a character that I want to study like a bug

[wildwinterlunas]

More on God Games cause the way it's written narratively is so interesting to me, especially with the Gods chosen to be in God Games, along with some of the motifs used and the way the gods are characterized.

God Games is basically framed as Athena going through different levels of Gods, Apollo is Level 1, Hephaestus level 2, Aphrodite and Ares level 3, Hera level 4 and Zeus is the final boss. we see this in how much time each god has along with how hard it was for Athena to convince them. It also subtly shows skill again and level ups through Athena arguments by using Ethos, Pathos and Logos.

With Apollo and Hephaestus, Athena starts with Logos, her arguments are factual and logical, not accounting for the contexts of those situations. With Aphrodite and Ares she needs to use Pathos, appealing to the lovers emotions rather then their logic cause that would not convince them, which in turn make Hera easier as Athena appeals to Hera's feelings on marriage and family. Then there's Zeus, with Zeus Athena uses Ethos, but not in the typical way it's used, Ethos is usually using your own authority in an argument to gain trust, what Athena does is appealing to Zeus's own ego and status of authority by begging him to let Odysseus go, sacrificing her own pride.

Then there's the gods chosen, a lot of people have pointed out that if Zeus didn't want to let Odysseus go then why didn't he get Poseidon or Helios in the argument, or any other God it would be harder to convince. In all honesty in Zeus wanted to make it insanely difficult the line up should have been Aphrodite, Ares, Poseidon, Helios, Persephone (trust me she has reason to be there, mainly due to her role in the Odyssey), then Zeus himself. So why didn't he?

To put it simply it was more of a risk, Poseidon is equal in power to Zeus, Helios is also insanely powerful, and while Persephone isn't necessarily powerful, she has status over Zeus and is honestly just terrifying in general (seriously people need to stop acting like she's just this uwu flower girl). They also have reason and authority to stand against Zeus, so when it comes to the end, where Zeus strikes Athena down, they would have had the ability to step in. The closest god in God Games that could do that would be Hera and even then it wouldn't have helped much.

Now the motifs, there's a specific instance I want to point out and that is Ares's entrance specifically the fact that the quick thought motif is still going when he enters. Which implies that they haven't left quick thought, just that the area has changed, which makes sense considering quick thought is very obviously a part of Athena's war domain. It makes sense Ares not only has access to it but also have the ability to change it to his domain, and considering a majority of interpolations of quick thought make it this night area, I think it would be cool if when Ares enters it turns to day, a strategic strike at night and a brutal fight at day. It also puts into more context why Ares asks "Is she dead?", that lightning strike was so powerful it affected their domain.

[lunee43]

Okay soooo I might get bashed for saying this but unpopular opinion coming and a rant hopefully this is a safe space;

.

.

Six hundred strike was amazing musically: unlike many I enjoyed the beginning of the song but by the end I was a bit put off because how does Odysseus, a mortal defeat a literal god, not just a god but POSEIDON god of the fricken sea and earthquakes? Like it’s a cool concept but it’s just… makes Poseidon look and seem weak then in the ocean saga. Sure Odysseus became a “monster” but he’s still a mortal, I also find the “six hundred strike” silly like Odysseus did that?…. Using a wind bag?

I enjoy the concept but the plot kinda turns it off for me (not that it’s bad please don’t bash me) Poseidon is one of the 3 major gods, I feel like Odysseus was made to be too overpowered I’d understand if there was a power boost or divine intervention. Poseidon is made to seem weak which contradicts seeing him as a threat. It strays from the original Odyssey way more in this song, and the song is very amazing though I find it silly how Poseidon was defeated and how Odysseus is way too over powered.

And let’s talk about the animation, the person who made it is so very talented but I feel it doesn’t fit, the jet pack windbag? Boss battle? Interesting but it really put me off when I listened and watched it it kinda ruined the aspects for me.

Overall in the end I feel six hundred strike had a good concept and was very great musically but I personally didn’t like the plot of Odysseus defeating Poseidon so easily I mean the man has many different powers aswell? Anyways this is just my personal opinion

Another rant: Also I loved the song “I’m not sorry for loving you” though I feel like if I even said that out loud I’d be bashed by the fandom because, yes, calypso is a bad person I know but the song is really nice and musical it doesnt mean I like the things she’s doing to Odysseus.

Another rant (apologies); I feel like everyone is too blindsided with Odysseus, a lot of people blame everyone but him a lot like he’s just a “cinnamon roll who loves his wife so much and the crew are all a-holes” because like eurylochus he also made mistakes aswell he tries to keep his crew alive abd get home but we do have to accept that this was from Greek mythology he is a flawed character aswell and I enjoy him for that. It makes the audience connect with Odysseus.

Another thing, wisdom saga— I feel Telemachus is used like a child a characterization of a child or teenager unlike the 20 year old he is. It’s a bit off putting for me. And it’s possible to make him innocent and grown such as the use of Polites. Personally he’s like an embodiment of a child and it’s weird to me because he’s a prince and will be king, shouldn’t he have some roles?

Now another thing connecting onto what I just said about “Odysseus does no wrong” ALOT of people in the fandom seem to use Eurylochus as a scapegoat for their hatred and anger to who’s at fault when it’s really the gods and fate, it’s just something the fandom has created to put the anger on why Odysseus couldn’t get home quickly, and I can understand because we look through Odysseus’s perspective throughout the musical. But personally I feel like Eurylochus gets too much hate he is sadly the scapegoat. Even the crew, but it’s saddening because they also have lives, they had family, they are mere mortals what are they to do? What would you all do in these situations if you didn’t know Odysseus’s plans and inner monologues? How would you act?

It’s honestly saddening you can’t like eurylochus without a person spewing about why they hate him, heck I’ve even seen just simple cute TikTok and art about the man but people place hatred within the comments about the character. And it’s only him, you could like Odysseus, polites, perimedies elpenor, Circe, etc. but hate Eurylochus?

<<This is all I have to rant about this is a safe space on my acc for all opinions so you can comment your own opinions, just don’t be mean to eachother>>

(I’m most likely gonna get hate or bashed sadly for having these opinions though I genuinely enjoy the musical a ton. I feel the fandoms grown a bit toxic lately.)

[finelythreadedsky]

wait i think actually madeline miller's circe is the heir to margaret atwood's penelopiad, unintentionally, in the way it thematizes the impossibility of real solidarity among women.

bc it's such a major part of the penelopiad how penelope creates what she thinks is a real community, a sort of family, with these young women in her household only be to reminded and continue to reinforce that they are slaves over whom she (among others) holds the power of life and death. and penelope ultimately does not or cannot hold a lasting grudge against odysseus on their behalf. she aligns herself, or circumstances force her to align herself, with odysseus instead of with other women whose positions are even more dangerous than hers. the world they live in does not allow solidarity between women across lines of class and enslavement, and penelope is also complicit in maintaining that world and her place in it.

and then the thing i found so frustrating about circe was that at every turn miller forecloses the possibility of real connections between women-- but the thing in this world that prevents that is just, like, jealousy over men. and totally needlessly. the other nymphs are prettier. glaucus loves scylla and not circe. her mom never liked her. hermes doesn't really think she's hot. athena is a rival for odysseus' attention. and the book doesn't do anything with this, it's not due to structural power imbalances or a society built on enslavement or even how patriarchy pits women against each other (circe lives alone on an island outside of society that could be another writer's lesbian separatist utopia!), it's just that circe doesn't like other women and they don't like her. end of story.

much as i don't love what atwood does with helen, it does make sense in the context of the penelopiad! thematically and in terms of characterization. atwood's penelope has internalized this idea of what it means to be a good woman and, willingly or not, she's staked everything on being seen by men as a good woman. it makes sense that she's desperately trying to pull herself up or even just cling to what little she has by dragging other women down. she does to helen what she ultimately does to the maids. she's with and for odysseus, always, not helen, and not the maids. that's the kind of world she lives in, and while she likes to think that she's resisting it with a sort of radical female community, in the end she is its agent. even if she feels bad about it. she's here to tell a story about odysseus, not about the girls he killed.

[zarnzarn]

new fic, tw rescue from a kidnapping and s/a (calypso), illiad modern spy au

They find him in the place they were told they would.

The lot of them almost don't make it past the door with how all of them fight to get inside first. The woman inside screams and drops her basket of fruits as they storm into the kitchen, staring at them with wide, piteous eyes as they all point their swords at her.

"Where is he?" Eurylochus snarls, half-bear in his rage. The guilt has been ripping him apart, whatever he and Odysseus disagreed on before he disappeared into thin air all those months ago, driving him wild. Menelaus nearly flinches himself when he roars louder, "WHERE IS HE?"

"Have you people never heard of politeness?" The woman demands starchly, even though she's still pressed back against the counter. Menelaus sees her eyes flash with power as she scowls at them, and takes a deep breath, readying his sword.

If he dies fighting her- if any of them do- the rest will understand. It's only because of Odysseus that any of them were alive at all.

"We were told that the merchant Xen'ath made a sale to you, seven months ago," Diomedes cuts in, voice cold. "An illegal one, even for a protected one like you."

She snorts, jewellery tinkling. She looks kind, and for a desperate moment Menelaus hopes.

"What will you do, put me in jail?" Calypso giggles. "Besides, a sale is a sale. He's mine, fair and square, so if you all would kindly-"

A vase crashes by her head, scattering muddy water and making her scream.

Patroclus hasn't recovered much from the coma, but he's just as angry as any of them and wouldn't be talked out of not coming along, even though he has to use a cane. He doesn't know about how they all fell apart while he was under, but has informed them all quite clearly that not only does he not care, in this situation it does not matter.

Menelaus holds out a hand to signal him to back down, knowing that they are all barely holding onto their fury enough to get answers.

"Where is he?" Ajax cuts in quietly. They point their swords again.

She scans them all calculatingly, grimacing. Then recovers, tossing her hair over her shoulder proudly, hmphing at them.

"In the basement," She says casually, and Menelaus' heart drops. Horror suffuses the faces around him, with many eyes closing in pained resignation, even though they already knew the truth. Knew what kind of sale it had been.

Penelope had recovered over fifteen hundred victims in her search for her husband, and all of them had the same story.

"He tried to run last week," She sighs, putting her hands on her hips and talking with such casual disappointment that it makes his blood run cold, makes him want to throw up. "Honestly, I made sure that he had everything one could need, I don't know what on earth-"

"Shut up," Polites snaps. "Just- shut up!"

"Why, you-" Calypso growls, eyes turning pink as she calls her power, and with a roar of fury, Achilles rounds the table and attacks.

Menelaus whistles to the others and they all scatter. He comes out at the veranda, opening every door and cursing when there's nothing beyond. It's a beautiful house- idyllic and pristine and packed with luxury, and it makes Menelaus want to claw off his own skin.

"HERE!" Someone shouts inside, and Menelaus skids to a stop and changes direction. They all reach the door at the same time, and he holds back the dizzying wave of horror at the lock on the outside as they all hack at the wood like crazed people to get in.

The door crashes down and Menelaus charges down the stairs into the dark room, scrambling for his torch.

"ODYSSEUS!" He shouts, moving it around. "ODY-"

They all go dead silent.

Odysseus scrabbles back, eyes glinting and wild in the light of the torch. He's still in the same outfit they have the last sighting of him in, dirtied and torn now, but the man wearing it is completely different- hair overgrown and body rail-thin, so much so that Menelaus for a heart-stopping second doesn't recognise him.

There's a chain around his leg, connected to the floor. A collar with an owl on it, made of metal that's been welded shut straight on and rope on his wrists. A dirty cloth stuffed in his mouth.

Blood on his legs.

"Odysseus!" Polites is the first to break their standstill, a huge grin of pained relief on his face as he rushes forward. It falls as Odysseus gives a small scream of terror and tries to get away from him, making the metal dig into his already scarred ankle.

Of terror. Of terror. Ten years of knowing him, and Menelaus has never seen Odysseus afraid.

Odysseus spits out the cloth. "Please," He whispers, voice wrecked, and they all flinch. The Odysseus in Menelaus' memory shines bright and golden, charming and funny and kind and angry and humble, despite having run missions for his kingdom since he was thirteen, sharper and swifter than all of them. This is not his friend. "Please, not them, not them, don't wear their faces too, please."

And-

Menelaus comes to with his face pressed against the wall, tears streaming down his face. Sick with rage and guilt and fury and horror. The others aren't faring any better when someone snaps over the microphones for them to hurry up and he turns back around- Eurylochus is sitting on the floor with his head in his hands, two others are vomiting, Polites has disappeared and the rest are just standing there frozen, crying. Patroclus is the only one who's kept his head on enough to attempt quiet reassurance, crouched near a trembling, animal version of their best spy and talking softly to him, trying to coax him away from cutting into his own skin with the rusted metal.

He tried to run away last week, Menelaus grasps onto desperately. It means he's still in there, fighting.

He can't take his eyes off the blood. There's so much of it.

"Eurylochus!" Polites snaps as he comes back down the stairs, a blowtorch in hand. "Hold him."

Odysseus screams at their approach and Menelaus does not have the courage to keep looking, places both hands over his ears like a child, unable to bear it.

(Penelope had opened the door to the group of them; twelve men Odysseus had run with for ten years who had no idea he disappeared until someone casually mentioned that Penelope had gone rogue and was on the watchlist for having tortured and murdered Circe.

Her eyes had been frigid. "Welcome," She said, as if they were strangers and not close friends. "You're quite lucky you decided to visit, you know. I had plans of killing you lot next."

Menelaus doesn't blame her.

She'd sent them all message after message, call after call- begging, pleading, bargaining; that they all ignored out of grudges and anger, until she'd stopped asking and done it herself. None of the fights Odysseus had had with them had even been that bad- it was just, somehow, every single one of them had just been that little bit extra annoyed as to not pick up when it had been her calling; and then Xen'ath had all Penelope's calls rerouted, so she couldn't reach them anyway.

"Queen of Ithaka," He'd bowed, Helen bowing lower at his side. "... Penelope. I- We are all so incredibly sorry-"

"Save it," She'd said, holding up a hand. "Just answer me this- would you rather run a mission or guard Telemachus? And what is your price?"

That had thrown them.

"Penelope," Diomedes had stepped forward hesitantly, looking heartbroken. "We would- all of us, any of us- we would do anything to save your husband. You don't need to fucking pay us to rescue him- we are his friends. We are your friends."

"Then WHERE WERE YOU?" Penelope screams, and her mask finally cracks with it, eyes filled with tears and mouth curled in rage. "Where were any of you when he- when I-" Diomedes grabs her and pulls her into a hug and she breaks down sobbing. "Where were all of you when we needed you?"

"Penelope," Menelaus says, stepping forward to place a hand on her shoulder. Glass crunches under his feet and guilt overcomes him again- all this while he'd been living in luxury, unburdened, his sister-in-law had given up everything to run missions on her own, feeding her people and taking down enemy after enemy while living in squalor herself, in a building full of unsavory men. Tears come to his own eyes. "Please, I beg you to believe me. None of us, not a single one- we did not know. We did not know your husband never made it home, Penelope, I swear on the Styx."

"Then you should have picked up my calls," She snarls, venomous, and gathers herself back up to push Diomedes and him away. "Now. Mission or Telemachus?")

When he takes his hands off, the silence is ringingly loud, the phantom screams still stuck in his ears. Menelaus looks when Odysseus whimpers suddenly and sees his sister's husband holding him down while Polites melts the collar off, Ajax silently working on the chain around his ankle.

Achilles shouts from upstairs and Diomedes calls back, and he comes into the room with grim eyes. "How is he?"

None of them can bring themselves to reply. The collar falls off with a thud.

"Odysseus, hey, we've come to rescue you," Polites tries again, smiling at him and holding his head in his hands so they can meet his eyes. "Don't worry now, we're here."

Odysseus is still. Too still.

Diomedes steps forward, eyes hard, and carefully pulls Polites' hands away. "He'll attack you. If shapeshifting is involved-"

Silence.

"What is wrong with all of you?" Patroclus says suddenly, scowling. "Did you lose your training along with your brains when I was unconscious? Soldiers, post-rescue protocol, now."

The command shocks him back to adrenaline, and they all burst into familiar movements, collecting pictures and pulling out shock blankets. Someone grabs Odysseus as the chain unravels and holds him still while they cut him free, and another talks gently to him as they inject him with a sedative. Menelaus is just glad it isn't him, because he doesn't think that even with his hardened nerves he could bear to face the fact that- to treat Odysseus like-

He looks away as Achilles grabs the other in a fireman's carry and makes his way to the door instead, pushing the debris out of the way to let them through.

Calypso isn't going to be held back for long.

"NO!" She screeches as she bursts through a wall, three times bigger than they left her. Menelaus slashes and she cowers back, baring her teeth in fear. Her face falls as she catches sight of Achilles running out the door, and tears well up in her eyes instead. "No, please, I can't be alone again! I can't be locked in here, please, I can't be alone, send anything, anyone, please!"

"Go fuck yourself," Ajax says savagely as he swings at her, and Menelaus grabs the person closest and yells for a retreat.

The van rumbles along. The windshield wipers swing.

"How long does the sedative last?" Menelaus hears himself ask.

"Should be done by now," Polites says, voice similarly bleak, turning to Odysseus. "Ody?"

Odysseus is crouched in the far corner of the van, staring at them all with sharp, hate-filled paranoia. Menelaus swallows and slows the vehicle, the rest of them turning to look.

"You're safe," Ajax says, softer than he's ever heard from him. "We got you out, Odysseus, you're going back home."

Odysseus narrows his eyes and snarls. Menelaus braces himself for something biting and sharp about how they could have done it earlier, better, faster. Except- "I'm not falling for another illusion, Calypso. Drop the fucking act."

Menelaus hits the brakes and closes his eyes as he presses his face against the steering wheel. "It's not an illusion, Ody, we promise. We're actually here."

"You don't have your chains any more, see?" Eurylochus tries. When he turns, they're all clearly holding themselves back from rushing forward in heartbreak; Odysseus had been the touchy one amongst them, winding around them like a hyperactive snake and hanging off them and hugging them tight and offering handshakes and high-fives, no matter that they were all hardened warriors. To have him clearly ready to throw a punch if they approach hurts. "Your collar is off- why would Calypso do that?"

Odysseus' face spasms and he grabs for his neck. Feels around as if it might be a trick, expression blank.

"Athena," He says abruptly, and Menelaus is extremely confused for a second before he recalls the owl etched into the metal and catches Diomedes' eyes in sudden horrified agony. Of all the terrible-

"Athena," Odysseus breathes, bending over with eyes wide in disbelief, saying it as if he can't believe he can. Hope flares in his eyes, before crumpling at the sudden landslide of grief that follows, tears Menelaus never saw from him at the worst of the Troy mission dripping down his face. "Athena. Athena. Athena! ATHENA! ATHENA!"

His voice is agonizing to hear, crazed and desperate, and someone rushes forward with a tranquilizer, before-

A loud clap, blinding light, and Athena, the goddess herself, appears in their mission vehicle.

"What the fuck," Ajax whispers next to him, grabbing Menelaus by the arm. They're both trembling. Everyone is. "What the fuck- that's actually her."

Athena snaps her neck around to study them all with blank eyes, nodding to a terrified Diomedes, before looking down at Odysseus. Studies him.

Oh shit, Menelaus thinks, remembering the rumors of Medusa, and motions for someone to intervene as he struggles with the seatbelt.

She dissolves her spear suddenly and- holds out her arms.

"What?" Odysseus says faintly, which sums that up too.

"What?" Athena returns, sounding- defensive? Confused? "You were the one who insisted on hugs and physical touch to be added to the rescue recovery manual."

Menelaus finally makes it over the barrier to the back of the van and gets to watch everyone's brains break slightly, and for Odysseus' mouth to drop open in sheer disbelief. Menelaus still knows him enough to recognise the look of him very much wanting to say that is not something you say in a situation like this before a smile suddenly pulls at his lips. A threadbare, incredulous giggle escapes him, then rickety, mirthful laughter and Menelaus breathes a sigh of relief.

"Yeah, I did," Odysseus grins slightly, and walks closer- hugging the goddess without a lick of fear, of course he does. The gods are famous for their pride and detachment and untouchability and of course this crazy man goes and hugs the most closed-off of them like an old friend.

Although, the way they talked to each other, and the implications-

"I'm not thinking of this anymore," Ajax mutters, rubbing at his face. "Odysseus, you believe this ain't an illusion yet, my dude?"

He pulls back and stares around at them like he's seeing them for the first time. His face twitches, like he can't decide whether to smile or be devastated, and quietly says, "You're here. You all came?"

The van bursts out in noise as they all trip over their sorrowful reassurances and apologies, almost shouting. Odysseus trembles. Blood drips to the floor.

Achilles steps forward and Menelaus feels the same alarm of a disaster incoming from earlier; he and Odysseus had never quite gotten over their irritation at dragging each other into the Troy mission and argued plenty during- he'd even heard word that they'd let a target escape once because they'd got into a fistfight.

But Achilles just gives Athena a wary look and a wide berth, and then pulls Odysseus into his arms. Menelaus suddenly remembers who'd been the first to run to Achilles and hold him when he'd sunk to the floor at Patroclus' diagnosis.

"We're here," He murmurs. "We came late, but we came. You're out."

"I'm out," Odysseus repeats, letting his tense posture drop as he leans into the embrace. "I'm out."

"You are," Athena confirms clinically, then- surprise on surprises, she kneels down to pull him closer as well.

Menelaus smiles, then climbs back to the front of the vehicle, satisfying himself with the flickering relief that slowly takes over Odysseus' expression. Gives his friend the privacy he can when he starts to have the breakdown delayed seven months, turns the keys to start the engine.

It's still a long journey to get Odysseus back to Penelope, then back to the Ithaka headquarters. But they have him now, and they'll get him back.

Menelaus, and the rest of them, will have to content themselves with that. That at least, the most they can do now, is bring him home.

He taps on his earpiece, and it crackles to life. "We have him," He tells her. "We're bringing him back to you by morning. Rest, please, Penny."

She sobs over the comms and the car drives on.

[mer-acle]

i hold all the power (evil laugh, evil laugh)

Give me...

The big athena hcs

I desire knowledge and inspiration (evil laugh, evil laugh)

Haha

You kinda put me on the spot there. Not bc I don't have big headcanons but bc I'm like how do I phrase this without being like "here's the plot of that fic I wrote" yk? And now I'm unsure what constitutes a big headcanon... so I'm just gonna give you some more random ones and maybe you can help me out with what you were thinking of? (O.O)

For Epic specifically: Her owl form is a dark barn owl, bc they're really pretty and rare and have ginger feathers that match her hair

She dislikes Poseidon so much because he's so much like her father but her perception of him isn't softened by the love she has for Zeus.

Prometheus really saved her after Pallas's death. He kinda filled the void that losing Triton as a paternal figure had left more so than that of Pallas herself, but he took her along for his little creation projects (like the humans whoops) and they really match each other's freak. Yk. Until Zeus takes Prometheus away and definitely forbids Athena from visiting. I will literally murder him one of these days.

Speaking of Zeus taking people away, Athena was STRUGGLING after Pallas. Unsurprisingly, but still. Nobody but Hephaestus knows her from when she was still pretty openly mourning, they're all too young, and he never really asked why, but my girl was so depressed and lonely. She spend IRL HOURS in Quick Thought rewatching that battle and trying to figure out the moment where she went wrong. She knows Zeus intervened, but it doesn't matter to her, it's her spear, it's her kill. He was all like "for a nymph?" when she asked to take Pallas's name. "well, if you think that is a title worthy of your status..." It was her most open rebellion against his wishes for a while.

Her favorite domain is wisdom, but it's followed by crafting, not war. Don't get me wrong, she enjoys a good fight, but if she had to choose and wasn't worried about Zeus's opinion, she would choose crafting over war any day. The reason in my hc is how the domains are assigned, she was basically born with Wisdom, her powers are all about thought, and Zeus later assigned her with warfare which her powers work well with, but weren't technically meant for it. Meanwhile crafting is her "Passion domain" meaning her power in it literally stems from her intense enjoyment for creating. Imagine "What else can I do" from Encanto, but it's her discovering making clothes for the first time. The angst factor of this obviously being "My life has one mission, create the greatest warrior" Why is that her one mission? Is it the crushing weight of who she has to be?

My favorite bigger concept has to be her relationship with truth. In other words, Athena lies and manipulates her way through life, she is smarter than her father but knows he holds the power, so her council is whatever works in the moment, if she knows it's hopeless, she'll tell him what he wants to hear. Life has become a game for her, a game where she sells her soul for approval, bc she's lost those who loved her unconditionally, and can't trust those around her bc they're all trapped in the game with her, she doesn't want to be the favorite, she needs to be the favorite, it's the only way to survive, the only way for some semblance of safety and control, and yes, she gets along with mortals better than gods because they hold no power over her, they can't threaten the position she's worked so hard to achieve. Until Odysseus compromises a part of her that she hadn't thought she still had. Attachment never felt like danger with Pallas, but it does now, because what does it matter if you're more powerful when you respect the other person too much not to honor their wishes, should they tell you to leave them alone? If asked, she will have to leave, and that's terrifying (None of that would be overly conscious before My goodbye but for me, that breakup deep down always will be Athena being scared of her own feelings and trying to stop it before it goes too far and being at least 15 years too late.)

Woah that got dark lol I just wrote the last section and was like ���fuck I am projecting SO bad. Like... gods I am so not okay. Jokes on me I thought I had headcanons all I have is trauma lmao

Anyways lol

Hope you liked it, and do let me know if you had something else in mind, I'll do my best :3

[merp-blerp]

TW: Discussion of sexual assault and suicidal ideation

I've been seeing some debate about Calypso and whether or not she sexually assaulted Odysseus and I want to throw in my two cents.

I'll say straight out of the gate that I don't currently like her much. I feel pretty icky about her personally.

Comparing Ody's behavior in Epic prior to "Love in Paradise" vs during the song feels so... clearly different. He seems very traumatized by whatever has been happening on that isle. It almost feels out of character for him to consider dying instead of fighting to get home alive like he had been, but putting myself in his shoes I can see how he came to that through what's textually known. He has been trapped on that isle for 7 years—that's nearly a decade, with no way to get out, everyone he knows and loves dead or far away with no way to know where he is or if he's alive. While I obviously would never think that's a good decision, I can see how he got to the point of wanting to end it. And if he's been sexually assaulted like he was in The Odyssey, I understand it more due to how that can warp a person's mental health.

I've seen some say, "Calypso is just a sweetie who doesn't know how to love properly" (paraphrasing of an actual comment I've seen). Even if she really just doesn't know how to care for a mortal, as many of the gods seemingly don't, I think she understands her power over mortals with her "Bow down now to the immortal Calypso" comment. She also understands that Odysseus doesn't want her, with the first part of her response to Ody's threats being "Oh handsome, you may try". She knows that he may try to escape by killing her (even though she can't die). Honestly, why would she feel the need to trap him if she didn't know good and well that he would want to escape her? She knew what she was doing was something that would make him want to run. Calypso being a goddess automatically gives their dynamic a power imbalance of course. Even though the assault is only implied, the fact that she's trapping Ody against his will, super infatuated by him, and still says "Soon, into bed we'll climb and spend our time", makes me feel like the indication is clear. What's stopping her from trying to have "sex" with him (sex isn't sex without consent)? She's already ignored all his declines. She seems to think that forcing her "love" onto him will make him love her. Yes, she uses lovey-dovey language so I doubt it would've appeared violent, but sexual assault doesn't have to look violent and the perpetrator doesn't have to appear aggressive. It's telling that I've seen some say, "Save that energy for Antinous" because Antinous is much more obviously bad, but this kind of thing isn't always obvious. That kind of assault is still extremely traumatizing whether it's sugarcoated as if it's love or not. It's dismaying that some reactions to Calypso bypass her potential assaulting or "She's weird, but she seems to care for him!" And since the sexual part of the assault is technically subtext (for now, who knows about later), I'll say that even if Calypso didn't sexually harm him, she still forces physical and verbal intimacy onto him and traps him so he can't leave. We see that. That's still assault. The only reason why I don't feel similarly about Epic's version of Circe is that her intent wasn't to have sex with Ody but to distract and throw him off with talk of sex so she could stab him as he's vulnerable; Circe never wanted to have sex with Ody in actuality. Calypso's intent was romantic intimacy and she didn't care if Odysseus said no, she completely bypassed it. Calypso saying "You're mine, all mine" feels as threatening as Circe's "I've got you" was meant to be.

Anything can change between now and the next two sagas. It could either be fully confirmed or denied that sexual assault took place. I actually don't expect either, as I don't think Jay would go too deep into such a traumatic concept in Epic, but then again I also didn't expect suicidal ideation to be brought up at all and it absolutely shocked me when it was, so I could be wrong. But whether it's confirmed or not, I don't blame any Epic fans who don't like Calypso or even hate her over what she did and what it's implied she did. It's icky watching some fans tell others they shouldn't hate Calypso because of this or that as if this isn't a sensitive and complex topic. It's creepy. I don't think we should tell people not to hate a character associated with sexual assault. The sexual assault might be subtext, but subtext is important and sometimes is implemented intentionally. Not every part of a story is going to be given to you at face value. Just because "Epic didn't say that" doesn't mean that the implication doesn't matter. People interact with stories in different ways, so you can disagree with others—no one can take that from you, but you don't get to tell someone they can't feel a certain way about a character. I don't like saying this because I really shouldn't have to put it in this perspective for it to be understood, but I can't help but feel like if Calypso and Ody's genders were swapped some people would treat this implication differently. Sexually or not she hurts him.

Normally I don't like taking lore from The Odyssey and automatically applying it to Epic, as Epic has changed a lot of rules from The Odyssey because Jay wants to tell this story his own story. For example, I personally choose not to assume Eury and Ody are brothers-in-law in Epic like they are in The Odyssey because that hasn't been stated in Epic so far. But to me, the implications of Ody's sexual assault are there enough for me personally to think that it might take place in both stories. Jay seems to want Epic to be accessible to many people, so it doesn't surprise me that this element of The Odyssey was brought up in a more subtextual/"hinted at" way.

Calypso is a very interesting character, maybe the most out of all the Epic antagonists so far for me, but we don't have to think of her as not doing anything wrong in order to enjoy that character, her songs, her cute physical character design, or Barbara Wangui's beautiful voice.

[The remainder of this post contains potential spoilers for the unreleased (to date) Vengeance Saga under the cut]

[Edit: Now complete with some post-Vengeance Saga release points]

Another defense of Calypso I've seen is that in the snippets for "I'm Not Sorry for Loving You", Ody says he loves Calypso, but not in the way she wants him to. This could mean they're friends and therefore doubt about the sexual assault could be cast.

It's hard to assess this because the saga's not out yet, but it's worth remembering that abuse can come out of care, in a complicated way. You can care for someone so much you end up hurting them, usually out of wanting to control them. Calypso seems to fit that concept. And most Epic snippets don't give full context, naturally, so who knows why Ody says this at the moment. Maybe he means it, or maybe he's bluffing to guarantee he'll get what he wants (which is to be set free in this instance), like when meeting Athena, or to appease a god, like when "apologizing" to Poseidon in "Ruthlessness". And of course, victims don't have to hate their perpetrators if they choose not to. Odysseus can care about Calypso and she can still have hurt him really badly. Both of these things can be true.

The way I read it, Calypso doesn't love Odysseus like she thinks she does. She's infatuated by him and cares for him enough to not be obviously cold like all the other obstacles Ody faced initially are. She declares that she loves him as soon as he wakes up on her isle without knowing him at all. She didn't even know his name. The washed-up person on her isle could've been anyone and she likely would've "loved" them. Calypso only loves Ody because he stops her loneliness, not for who he is. When she begins to state that she loves him she doesn't even know him. Over the 7 years, she seems to have potentially gotten to know him a bit, saying "I know your life's been hard", but Odysseus himself asserts that she doesn't really know what he's been through. You can call someone (against their will, let me remind you) "my dear, my love for life" all you want, but that doesn't mean you love them. Ody's her first companion in years if not ever, of course she cares for him on a basic level. She won't kill him or let him jump off a cliff. But she doesn't love him or treat him like a human and obey his boundaries and wants. She treats him like an object or pet she owns and has to guard.

In "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" Calypso says that Ody is all she's ever known because she was abandoned. It's understandable that she would latch onto a living creature after being alone for so long. But that's not necessarily love, at least not to me. If I love someone I wouldn't bypass their refusal to do something. And I wouldn't trap them with me and not let them go, even when they're about to jump off a cliff because they see no way out. I'm not sure if Calypso means to bring malice, she at least says she "bring(s) no pain", but she does regardless or if she intends to. Calypso hasn't had anyone in her company, let alone someone to love, for so long, maybe in her whole life. That's why she doesn't know what love is, so of course when she catches fickle feelings for Odysseus she assumes that's love and has no clue what to do with her "love", as she admits in "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You". Calypso's actions are understandable, but that doesn't mean they're excusable or not abusive. What she does to him is understandable, but selfish and only serves herself, which isn't what you do to someone you love. Note that the way I use understandable here does not equate to forgivable, it just means conceivable. And her apology to him really waters down the magnitude of her actions, saying she "pushed" him, "came on too strong", and that her love might've been "too much" for Ody.

I apologize for this being such a long rant, but I wanted to cover all the excuses for Calypso I'd seen and speak my mind on why I think they're misguided at best.

Post-Vengeance Saga Edits:

Now that The Vengeance Saga has been released, I can comfortably say that I still don't like Calypso, and I think this saga just encourages me to do that. I wasn't anticipating the entirety of "I'm Not Sorry for Loving You" to basically have been featured in the snippets. I was expecting the official song to give more context, maybe showcasing Ody and Calypso having a dialogue, but no! That was really it. And I'm honestly happy for it. It seems like the show recognizes that Calypso is in the wrong, with the way we aren't meant to really ruminate on Ody leaving her. The excuse I talked about above using the theory that Calypso and Odysseus would turn out to have been friends because he said he loved her? I just don't think that held much water by release. I particularly want to point out the way @gigizetz drew Ody's face as he leaves in the commissioned animatic from Jay's stream:

While I can't say for certain that he doesn't mean the "I love you" in some way... he doesn't look like he means it to me. There's no lovey-softness in his eyes, like you might have when you look at your friends when saying I love you. He looks beaten down. Tired. Above, I proposed that Ody might just be blowing smoke to further get what he wants from her. I don't think there's quite enough insight for me to say I was necessarily right on that, but Ody doesn't actually appear that attached to her, certainly not enough so for me to confidently say that I think his "I love you" is genuine. He doesn't even look like he'll miss her, he looks beyond ready to go as she shouts, not pained by her tears. Honestly, Ody might've just said that so she'd stop talking so he could leave. Now there is one more saga left, so maybe he'll wistfully mention or remember her, but I'm not really expecting it based on the official visuals that Jay okay'd. Humbly, I'll say that I don't think Odysseus feels much for Calypso. We don't get happy moments of them together and not even a proper goodbye filled with mutual pain. We just get her backwards apology that basically says, "Sorry I hurt you, but not fully. Shut up and let me talk about me and justify why I trapped you. Wish you'd stop rejecting me despite the fact that I've hurt you. Let me shout that I hate that I fell for you—only because this hurt me unlike I wanted when I kidnapped you—who cares if it hurt you." This moment is not at all a redemption for Calypso. It's her downfall. Her negative character arc. She didn't want to be alone so bad she trapped a person against his will and now she is alone forever (in this show). She can't even have Ody as a friend (and she won't accept purely his friendship anyway based on how the song ends). Who knows how different things would've been if she had just been more... normal when he washed up on her isle? The situation was tragic for them both in different ways, but I'm not sorry for Calypso. Calypso is so interesting as a character. Side-lining her actions just bards us from being able to assess her.

[sci-twi]

ALSO!!! I love how much Epic really shows that gods can’t die yes but they can feel pain still.

Whether it’s emotional pain like (starting off small): Calypso with the actual real anguish she feels towards Odysseus’ refusal of her love. She has been alone her entire life and has had no one to relieve her of that. The pain she is feeling when Odysseus is sailing off is tangible.

To take it a step further, there’s Athena. All those years, she’d just had Odysseus’ words echoing in her head, to the point that she couldn’t sleep at times. The guilt she felt was so strong that it led her to giving up her pride, her stubbornness and need to be right to save the person she cared about the most. Regret is its own special sort of pain.

God Games gave us the idea that gods can be wounded and is left pretty ambiguous (or not depending on what you believe) on whether they can be mortally injured. Zeus unleashes a great deal of power over Athena and hurts her so badly that even Ares has to wonder whether she’s dead.

So, to really drive that point home that gods can feel pain and get hurt with Poseidon was perfect. Not only can gods hurt and bleed but it can be done by a mortal. And that’s the thing- gods aren’t supposed to be hurt by mortals like that- I believe it was genuinely shocking to Poseidon.

He is one of The Big Three, he doesn’t get hurt- he doesn’t get injured. This is a being who probably doesn’t know physical pain or at least has felt it so rarely that the moment that trident met his flesh it was a special sort of horrific shock that froze him, left him reeling to the point that Odysseus could keep doing it over and over and over.

In those few moments, Odysseus introduced him to suffering and gods like Poseidon do not know what that is. It is as foreign to them as being without their powers and just as dangerous. And worse? He used his symbol of office- his divine weapon crafted especially for him. The trident is not just a tool, but a beacon of his might - PRACTICALLY A PART OF HIM- and it was just used to draw his blood, to cause him pain.

That is why I believe in the final battle victory. Pain blindsided Poseidon because he believed he was untouchable and Odysseus proved that wrong in one of the most violent ways possible.

[byoldervine]

Writing Tips - Overarching Themes

A lot of stories like to have overarching themes, such as themes of redemption, acceptance, ruthlessness, love, etc. But how do you come up with the themes for your story?

1. Don’t lose the plot. What kind of journey does your plot take your characters on? What do they achieve and what do they learn along the way? Off the top of my head Miraculous Ladybug doesn’t do a great job at portraying an overarching theme of ‘love conquers all’ when love repeatedly causes problems for the heroes (to the point of “It was our love that destroyed the world” being one of the most memorable lines) and only seems to benefit the villains. Let the plot help keep you on the right track

2. Ask a question. There are tons of themes that rely on asking a question and pitting two different virtues against each other; traditional vs modern, redemption vs damnation, nature vs nurture, etc. The theme of the story is then watching one conquer the other, or finding out where the balance lies between the two if that’s more applicable. ATLA was, of course, very good at handling the nuances in redemption and damnation; it showed people learning they need to change, people wanting to change, people choosing not to change, people trying and failing to change, and even people with the capacity to change only if they take it. The episode The Southern Raiders is also a masterclass in nuance in revenge vs forgiveness, and ultimately allows the audience to form their own conclusions

3. Add a twist. One thing that really intrigues me about EPIC: The Musical is how the overarching theme is ruthlessness vs mercy - with the lesson being that main character Odysseus needs to be more ruthless. You don’t get a lot of stories that teach ruthlessness as the good and correct answer over mercy, that you should kill a defeated opponent rather than letting them live, and that makes the story so much more interesting and unique. If you can think of a way to intentionally twist the expected outcome of your overarching theme, see if you can make it work within the story

4. It’s overarching for a reason. Make sure your overarching themes are evident in the story and impact the characters and their decisions, as well as the consequences for such. Hazbin Hotel has an obvious overarching theme of redemption, and you can see it in the way each episode plays out that redemption comes into it, whether it’s Vaggie regaining her wings when learning to fight for love rather than vengeance, Charlie giving Alastor the chance to work in the hotel despite knowing he doesn’t believe in her goals, Husk encouraging Angel’s character growth and his true nature, etc. Almost everything the characters do relates back to the theme of redemption and betterment

5. Reward the theme. Maybe in the past characters have been burned before and no longer believe in your overarching theme, but the course of the story changes their perspective. The Owl House has overarching themes of non-conformity and individualism and acceptance of those who are ‘weird’ or different, and they all culminate in Luz finally feeling understood for the first time in her life after never feeling that way. Attempts in the past to be understood have often been met with people labelling her as the weird kid or her being punished, and then throughout the story there’s a lot of people that accept Luz, but in more of an “I don’t get what you’re saying, but I get what you’re trying to say” kind of way; acceptance and understanding aren’t quite the same. And lacking acceptance has negative impacts in the story for good and bad characters alike; Luz is at her most powerful when she accepts both the human and witch side of her rather than comparing herself to Azura, Amity’s potential for redemption comes only when she accepts Luz as a witch, Belos loses his power when he’s no longer accepted by others, etc. Characters are rewarded for following the overarching theme and punished for straying

[dootznbootz]

I don't know about you, but I'm a bit mixed about Calypso in EPC. I mean, her songs are good, her singer's quite talented, so I don't have a problem... musically, at least.

But, story-wise, Calypso seems a bit too victim-like in my taste. "I'm not sorry for loving you" seems like it wants to make us sympathize with her and to consider her as Odysseus' friend.

While making her nuanced is interesting, the Epic fandom could be inclined to forget what she did to him in the Odyssey. And how miserable he was alongside her.

On the plus side, "Love in paradise" affirms she's the powerful one and Odysseus later confirms he doesn't love her romantically (plus Athena's 'he never cheated on his wife' line in "God games")

So it won't be detrimental for OdyPen 🥰.

What do you think ?

Oh, I'm definitely mixed about Calypso in Epic. As just like you said:

"While making her nuanced is interesting, the Epic fandom could be inclined to forget what she did to him in the Odyssey. And how miserable he was alongside her."

The Epic Fandom already DOES forget what happens in the Odyssey or think that they are the same thing. :/ I see stuff talking about Scylla in how Odysseus lights the torches and yet, it's tagged as "Odyssey". I love "light up six torches" as it's very dark but also very painful for Epic!Odysseus and that's really fun!

But I get saddened when people think that happened in the Odyssey ;~; as it's one of my favorite parts where Odysseus, knowing that Circe warned him, still goes to put on his armor to try and fight Scylla himself. He tried so fucking hard to save them. And they all grieved later on together. Eurylochus does mutiny in both but in the Odyssey, it isn't because of Scylla or anything. They were all just...Hungry ;~;

That's not even talking about how the Epic Fandom was when we only got the snippet of "There are other ways" ;~;

I still remember when there were jokes about how Odysseus is just like Hamilton and "Couldn't say No to this." Also Circe never did that to "protect her nymphs" in the Odyssey. She did it for funsies as she's a goddess and can do what she wants. That doesn't mean he was happy though.

I DO trust Jay to do well with Calypso's island. While I really am nervous about "I'm not Sorry for Loving you." like very nervous. I think HE'LL also make it clear that Odysseus isn't well or happy. As he has that cut song with the lyrics of:

"Is this some kind of trick? Pretending I can go Because if so, you're sick My heart's already broken"

So even though he cut that song because the beat and the music did NOT fit the situation, I'm very sure he'll have another like it showing Odysseus' despair and suffering.

I just... sighs I'm in a funky situation where I love Epic. I love it a lot. I think it's a genuinely good and fun retelling. I think while some spots are inaccurate, some are still really neat. I just get sad about this almost...disdain towards the actual Odyssey?

"Oh, Odysseus doesn't mention Penelope and Telemachus as much as he does in Epic-" Yes, he does. It's in so many of the metaphors and there's so many moments where he's clearly thinking about them. I love singing Penelope's name longingly too but an ancient epic poem is gonna be a lil different xD

"Oh Polites isn't really in it-" ...And?? That's okay. You enjoy Jay's character he created who really isn't in the Odyssey as much.

"Odysseus is such a manwhore in the Odyssey-" I am beating you over the head with a fucking rock.

Jay is clearly so fucking passionate and cares about this story so so much (he had a MENELAUS SONG (I grieve it's loss every day ;~; THEY CAN BOTH SIMP FOR THEIR HOT AF WIVES)) He had other characters planned!

But yeah ;~; I get so fucking sad every time someone talks about Epic being better than the Odyssey. Like even JAY wanted to clear that up that "hey, the Odyssey is really cool! I mean I wrote this because I love it so much." and yet... people don't wanna know or even TRY to understand what happens in the actual Epics.

I have hope. I just hope the FANDOM follows through.

[wolfnight2012]

"We'll be Fine" is the new "Open Arms"

(but I don't think Telemachus will be a Polites-like character, though I do have suspicions that some of his songs/motifs/or at least one scene in the final saga all work as a call-back to Polites/Open Arms)

But anyways!

While I am not claiming a 1:1 comparison, "We'll be Fine" sees Telemachus in a Polites-like role with Athena, who has assumed a post-Troy!Odysseus like role in regards to her guilt over how she ended things with Odysseus in "My Goodbye"

We've got:

an ecstatic declaration of friendship (new vs established)

We've got the positivity/look on the brighter side/things will work out

AND most importantly (imo) we have the Call to Action! The "You have the power to change things/it doesn't have to be this way/life can be better if you work to make it so

Polites gets Odysseus to consider "Open Arms" at the end of his song (though, tragically, he dies before he can teach Odysseus how to effectively implement this belief system & Odysseus then fucks it up during the Ocean Saga)

Telemachus gets Athena to reach out to Odysseus. "Maybe, its time that you lend a hand/I don't think he'll mind"

Athena was not going to reach out on her own. (maybe it was pride, maybe shame, maybe she thought she'd thoroughly burned that bridge & there was no hope for reconciliation) but Telemachus helps her realize that is not true.

On a similar note:

The Wisdom Saga as a whole argues for "Open Arms" over "Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves"

(Especially in regards to the saga's main character: Athena)

So! I spoke a bit about how Ruthlessness was not mercy upon Odysseus (or Athena) here, BUT, now that I think about it, it's not so much that the Wisdom Saga isn't about "Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves" but rather, that it IS about the sentiments expressed by Polites in "Open Arms"

(I've currently got a breakdown of "Open Arms" half-finished in my drafts, I'll link it here once I finish & post it)

But also!

The Wisdom Saga is the first saga, without a single song promoting Ruthlessness.

The Troy Saga has them using a wooden horse to kill sleeping Trojans & the killing of the infant + Eurylochus suggesting they "Strike first/raid the place"

The Cyclops Saga has Polyphemus trying to lay waste to Odysseus's entire crew + Athena telling Odysseus to finish off the threat

Ocean Saga has Poseidon

Circe Saga has Circe's decision to treat all strangers as possible threats to her nymphs & turning them into pigs

Underworld has Odysseus' decision to become the monster

Thunder Saga is the first saga where every song (except Suffering) explicitly promotes Ruthlessness

The Wisdom Saga breaks this pattern

Legendary:

Even though Telemachus is singing about fighting monsters, it comes across as very idealist. This is not an aggressive song. Telemachus doesn't sound blood-thirsty or vicious. He wants to live up to his father. He wants to be able protect his mom

He dreams of fighting monsters (an intangible threat for a kid who's never left his island) but it's clear he's never so much as been in a fight before (Little Wolf is the first time he tried it)

"So I could bring the world some light" vs "We can light up the world"

Little Wolf:

Once again, this is not an aggressive song (not on Telemachus' part)

Telemachus is being egged on/taunted by Antinous + the suitors on one side & encouraged by Athena on the other (both of whom are more aggressive than Telemachus)

Telemachus is on the defense. He's unsure. He never expresses a desire to kill/destroy Antinous beyond his desire to want to keep his mom safe

Athena comes to help Telemachus without seeking anything in return! She's not seeking a new warrior of the mind/A new kid to mentor (Telemachus shows none of the promise of his father)

She's simply giving her help. ("Why should we take when we could give?")

"Have you forgotten to turn off your heart" vs "One young wolf has a larger heart than all these men combined" she saw Odysseus' heart as a weakness/distraction, while now she realizes it can be Telemachus' greatest strength

Even the suitors!! Antinous just wants to humiliate/agitate Telemachus. He's being cruel, but not ruthless. He lets up as soon as Telemachus is defeated/shown his place. He's a "bully" but not a "monster" (at least, not yet[??])

Then we get to "We'll be Fine" which, as I mentioned above, is essentially the new "Open Arms"

We'll Be Fine:

Athena lowers her guard & essentially bares her heart to Telemachus! She tells him about this mystery friend, about her regrets, the (semi) truth about why she helped him! ("You could show a person that you trust them, when you stop and lower your guard")

Telemachus takes this trust & greets Athena with open arms, offering her his friendship, his comfort & his advice

His positivity echoes Polites' from "Open Arms" as does his belief (despite T. living under the stress of the suitors & P. having lived through a war) that everything will be fine

"Maybe, it's all gonna turn out great I know we'll be fine"

"Whatever we face, we'll be fine if we're leading from the heart"

"I know it's light you'll find"

"No matter the place, we can light up the world"

Tbh, even though it's not a direct lyrical callback, I'd argue Telemachus' advice for Athena to reach out to her friend "Maybe, it's time that you lend a hand, I don't think he'll mind" is a thematic callback either to "Here we have a chance for some adjustment, Give it a try, it's not that hard" (it's not to late to make things better via your own actions/choices) or "Kindness is brave" (you want good things to happen? Take that first leap. Don't react with fear/be paralyzed by regret)

Love in Paradise

Just like Odysseus is convinced to (at least) consider an "Open Arms" approach by Polites, Athena has been convinced by Telemachus to reach out to her friend

God Games

Athena decides she CAN "Replace [her guilt] and light up the world" by helping Odysseus

She leads from the heart with the other gods! ESPECIALLY with Ares & her declaration of Telemachus being her friend!

All 5 of her opponents respond well to Athena's arguments, she's not just using logic, she IS appealing to their heart/sympathy as well, because SHE is doing this from a place of emotion/caring

"He can still build a future with those who miss him" "His son's my friend"

"Never once has he cheated on his wife"

Once she wins, we get Athena "goddess of wisdom/master of war" once more.

She declares herself triumphant in Zeus' game & demands her prize (which sets Zeus off)

But when Zeus strikes her down, Athena humbles herself, she lowers her guard, she leads from the heart, and she doesn't demand. She doesnt even ask. She pleads for Zeus to let Odysseus go. Heart/affection on full display.

Athena gets NOTHING from this. She's no longer demanding for a reward/recognition as the witty winner of Zeus' game, ("I played your game & won" vs "Please, let him go") just asking for Odysseus to receive help

THIS is when Zeus relents. Not when he strikes her down so hard that Ares fears her dead. Not (and I hate using visuals to analyze MUSIC, but I'll give myself an exception) when Athena's armor starts to crumble. Not when she bleeds. Not when she crawls. When Athena pleads for Odysseus, that's when Zeus falters.

And

Don't read past here if you don't want spoilers/titles/speculation for upcoming sagas!

It works.

We KNOW Hermes will be sent to Odysseus to get him off Ogygia.

And, while it seems (at least to me) that in "Wouldn't You Like" Hermes appears to Odysseus of his own accord/for funsies, "You're being given one final option" (from "Dangerous") sounds like this isnt a social visit.

Hermes is here as a messenger. And I doubt the gods are going behind Zeus back for this one.

My guess? Zeus relents. With the caveat that they'll intervene to get Calypso to let Odysseus go BUT, he has to make it off the island/back home by himself.

But still. Athena's heart-felt plea works. Her pride as the clever goddess of wisdom who beat her father's game got her struck down. But leading from the heart & pleading for her friend's release succeeds.

And this is why I think (narratively) we need to close off the themes established in "Open Arms"

At the end of this post here, i talk about how it'd be nice to get some sort of closure for Polites' philosophy. Maybe with Odysseus' final confrontation with Poseidon. Maybe with Telemachus.

But after the Wisdom Saga?

I no longer think it'd simply be nice. I think its necessary for narrative closure.

The Wisdom Saga just showed us Ruthlessness was not mercy for Odysseus, who is tormented by the deaths of his crew & is now suicidal after being trapped on Ogygia for 7 years.

Ruthlessness was not mercy for Athena, who can no longer sleep at night.

Ruthlessness does not get results for any of the main characters featured in the Wisdom Saga

The philosophy Polites describes in "Open Arms" however, DOES get results.

Its what leads Athena to help Telemachus. Its how Telemachus convinces Athena to reach out to her friend. It's how Athena convinces the other gods (possibly even Zeus) to help/release Odysseus.

I now think we need one last callback to those themes. Either by Athena, by admitting she was wrong back in "Warrior of the Mind" and "My Goodbye" to demand Odysseus turn off his heart (she was not able to turn off her own heart!! She can't sleep at night! + heart is how she wins the God Games!)

OR by Telemachus, Odysseus optimistic son, who (as of the Wisdom Saga) has nothing monstrous or ruthless about him.

Maybe Odysseus gets carried away as he kills the suitors, or goes after someone who surrenders & Telemachus steps in to rein him in.

Maybe Telemachus simply reminds Odysseus of Polites.

Idk.

But I can't see "Open Arms" featuring so heavily in the Wisdom Saga's themes/narrative for there to be narrative satisfaction without one final, definitive callback in the Ithaca Saga

[wee-chlo]

Had this image of the way Mel and Zag meet is Chronos taking out his frustration on Zag and leaving him in Hades' chamber.

And he freezes time so that Zag can't heal and is just in constant pain from the torture.

So when Mel shows up, he's got Cerberus curled up around him protectively and Hades is in this weird place of "if I pretend I don't care, Chronos might stop targeting my son" and "Zagreus thinking I don't care is maybe the worst thing I can think of right now???"

At first, Cerberus doesn't let Mel approach but Hades reassures him and then is like "Zagreus, open your eyes. It's your sister."

And Mel has seen that painting a thousand times, a million times, stared at it until she was sure every inch was burned into her memory, but somehow the fact that she and Zagreus have the same eyes, just mirrored, became something she no longer saw. That irrevocable, clear sign that they're blood, they're kin, he's her brother, glazed with pain and exhaustion but then sharp and clear with shock and relief and he reaches a hand out and she takes it thinking its a formal grip, but then he yanks her down to the floor and wraps his arms around her and just. Holds her.

When was the last time Melinoë was held? When she was a child? When she began to grit her teeth and blink away the tears after a nightmare instead of running to Hecate in the night? When Selene words of comfort and gentle reassurance began to be coupled with a hand to her cheek or hair? When Odysseus began to bow and say "Goddess" with as much respect as affection?

Cerberus chuffs in her ear and a head the size of a table in the taverna bumps onto her side as another settles against Zagreus' back, a broad nose pressing against her arm as her brother's hand rubs circles into her back.

And its so baffling, so odd that her, in the depths of her father's usurped domain, rooms away from where she's fought and fled and killed, that this is the safest she's felt.

(Later, in the Crossroads, memories will return: Zagreus carrying her to a man with pale hair and a soft smile; the head of a gorgon waving rattles by her with snake hair as a warm giggle; a woman with a bat wing and a shade with golden hair standing over her as the most beautiful voice drifts over her, music more beautiful than that of the sirens by leaps and bounds)

(She wasn't in her father's house for long, but when she was, she was loved.)

Zagreus gives her a boon. She almost doesn't want to take it, he's so weak, but he grips her hand and insists. Its life, it's blood, its the power to keep going against impossible odds. She feels reinvigorated. She feels furious.

"If I kill him," she says quietly, as Cerberus encloses Zagreus again in the comfort of three broad, blood-red heads. "Will this stop?" They both know who she's talking about.

"Perhaps," Hades says reluctantly. "His power is what keeps your brother from healing. If he must focus on himself..."

"I'll kill him."

She does.

The next time she comes through that room, Zagreus is standing. Still visibly tired and injured, but grinning and talking now.

"You're awake! Zagreus, I'm-"

"Melinoë!" Zagreus wraps her in a hug again and she's sure this must be what her mother's arms feel like too. "I'd know you anywhere!"

He stays with their father. Sometimes she comes in and he's beaten, bloody and nearly broken. Sometimes he's up and laughing.

He gives her advice, tells her stories, makes her laugh. Offers boons when he can.

He loves her, and she loves him.

[sunshinemoon3341]

I JUST LISTENED TO THE ENTIRE ITHACA SAGA SO SPOILERS AHEAD

The Challenge:

We start off with a Penelope song! And I swear she eats this up!!! She only has 2 songs but she goes crazy with the vocals!!! Her voice is genuinely like lotus, I am just absolutely entranced and just cannot stop listening for even a moment!!!

Penelope saying “husbands old bow” while the suitors say “old husbands bow” is subtle but so meaningful and shows how differently they think of Odysseus!

The “Waiting” callback from the underworld!

————————————————————————-

Hold Them Down:

I’d listened to sneak peaks and snippets from like a year ago but hearing the actual version!!!! Antonious’s voice in this song is insane!

Don’t you dare hurt my baby Telemachus!!

What is their problem with his bones!!! “You’ll have run out of bones to break when you and I are through”(Little Wolf) and “Hold him down while I slowly break his pride, his trust, his faith, and his bones”(Hold Them Down)

The way they talk about Penelope gives me worse shivers than the beginning of Thunder Bringer. But it’s also very telling of what the suitors actually think of Penelope!! They don’t care about her as a person. They just want the crown, and the power.

Bye bye Antonious!!

Overall great villain song. One of, if not, the best I’ve ever heard. I feel conflicted about liking this song because the lyrics are so dark but the song itself is sooooo good!!!

————————————————————————

Odysseus:

Right off the bat, I love the name. The only names in song titles are monsters(Polyphemus, Scylla, Charybdis) so the title being “Odysseus” indicates that he has become some sort of “monster” and that’s a really cool form of symbolism to show it!(you can also hear the monsters names in the background throughout the song)

DO NOT talk about his family like that!

I like the “Where is he?”(Legendary) reverberation. It’s a nice touch!

He stole their weapons!!! This is some Athena level stuff!!

“You don’t think I know my own palace? I built it!” no notes! That line is one of the most perfect lines to ever grace Spotify!

It’s interesting that the suitors asked for mercy. They know as well as Odysseus does that if he didn’t show up who knows what they would have done!! It’s more of an attempted trick than it is an actual apology.

The way the suitor suggests “open arms” and Odysseus doesn’t even let him finish!!

Odysseus shows his cleverness and why he deserves the title “Warrior of the Mind” in this song.(though he is clever in many other songs).

DONT YOU DARE TOUCH TELEMACHUS!!!!!

Again with the bones!!! “I’ll break the kids hands”. Just leave the kids poor bones alone!!!

That voice after Odysseuss says “mercy”!!

This song was brutal, perfect and I get why Athena told Ares the Odysseus “wanna gonna make everybody b|eed”

————————————————————————

I Can’t Help But Wonder:

Heartbreaking!! So cute!!

They both just want to be good enough for each other!! They missed each other soooo much!!

I’ve never cried during any movie, play, book, anything and got almost got me

ATHENA!!!!

The Queen has returned!!!

All the “Warrior of the Mind” callbacks!!

She’s sorry for what’s she did to him! She feels like she turned him into this. This is the the closest thing Athena’s ever gotten to an apology.

He forgives her(or close enough)!! He’s not gonna dwell on all the things he could have done differently, he just wants to see his wife!!

————————————————————————

Would You Fall In Love With Me Again:

Again Penelope ATE THAT UP! I still cannot get over her voice!!

She acknowledges that he’s a bit different but to her he’s still the love of her life!!!

THE WEDDING BED!! Odysseus seems hurt when she asks him to move it. She proved that he’s still the same man!!

The “Waiting” callback again

So cute, so romantic, so beautiful!

————————————————————————

Perfect ending. After everything he sacrificed he was able to get back to the people he did it all for.

10/10 no comments, no suggestions, absolutely nothing!

I’m so excited to see what everyone does next!! I hope Epic grows bigger than I could ever imagine!

I still think the play should have ended with “And that’s my Journessy”

Tysm for reading my little rant

[amazingmsme]

Hi! Hope you are doing well! Do you have any hcs for Poseidon, Zeus and/or Ody with a ticklish lover?

I’m doing pretty good, thanks for asking! & I think I can whip something up 😉

Poseidon- his whole thing is being lovingly cruel, going after your worst spots & teasing about how sensitive you are. He really likes to take his time & drag things out just to watch you squirm & beg

Zeus- legit has to refrain himself from going all out, but this man gets fucking feral. He loves having so much power over you, & pins you down so you can’t escape. He constantly reminds you that you’re his & he’s in charge & gives lots of teasing compliments. But yeah, he gets real handsy & possessive

Odysseus- i cannot betray the simp, so these are gonna be odypen headcanons lmao. But he is so loving & gentle, omggg. He has the cutest teasy smile on his face as he pins Penelope down, & he’s just so goofy & sweet with her! It’s not like when he tickles his friends or crew, he’s so mean to them, but he could never bully his beautiful wife (unless she asked him to, which she does)

[pod-together]

Pod-Together Day 3 Reveals 2024

hiraeth and hwyl (Howl's Moving Castle - All Media Types, Howl Series - Diana Wynne Jones, Howl no Ugoku Shiro | Howl's Moving Castle, Piranesi - Susanna Clarke, Betrayal at House on the Hill) created and performed by AirgiodSLV, CompassRose, ellejabell, epaulettes, kitkat50311, mahons_ondine, minnabird, and sisi_rambles Summary: You find yourself looking at a door. It looks like an ordinary door, but you’re somehow certain that it isn’t. In theory, you could open the door…but something warns you off. You might not survive, if you pass through that door. You might no longer be you.

I Could Eat A Peach for Hours [text, audio] (Stranger Things (TV 2016)) written by ArtaxLivs, performed by rufusbear Summary: “Robin, it’s fucking obscene.” “You’re obscene,” she squawks. “I am but he’s so much worse,” Eddie insists. “He just, oh my god, all week Robin. All. Fucking. Week.” “I do not need to know about your weird food kinks,” Robin makes a face and then pretends to gag. “It’s not a fucking food kink, it’s a Steve’s mouth kink,” Eddie growls.

Lost and Found (Firefly (TV 2002)) written by Ballad_of_Firefly, performed by InterstellarBlue Summary: Looking up, the apology died in his throat. Familiar brown eyes stared down at him and for a moment, he forgot how to breathe. They looked exactly like River's. Gabriel Tam's eyes narrowed. "Simon."

born to go through trouble (The Odyssey - Homer, EPIC - Jorge Rivera-Herrans (Albums), Ancient Greek Religion & Lore) written by BubblesKat, performed by ShakespeareStoleMyURL Summary: Something is wrong. I don’t understand what happened. I swore I was dreaming when I awoke inside the horse in Troy, but I was immediately discovered and killed. Then, I woke up again in the exact same circumstances. -- or, Odysseus finds himself in a time loop, waking up inside the Trojan horse over and over and over

The shadow of our Light (Shadowhunters (TV)) written by HadrianPeverellBlack, performed by Hagar Summary: Alec's and Jace's relationship. 5 times they thought they weren't enough for the other, and the one time they realized they were enough

Who is the Maestro? (SEVENTEEN (Band)) written by halotolerant, performed by pezzax Summary: Warning. Critical power failure. Metronome is offline. Do you wish to try again? - Wonwoo versus the AI

Meditations II: A Simple Method for Reducing Mental Distractions and Courting the Elusive Muse, by Professor Pankratz (Wiedźmin | The Witcher - All Media Types) written by LenaLawlipop, performed by Chantress and Luninarie Summary: The rustling of wind and chirping of birds can be heard, it’s warm… Not obscenely so, only just enough to make your eyes very, very heavy. Distantly, you can hear the professor writing, chalk on blackboard marking the steady passing of time until your next break. Soon, however, the rhythmic tap of the chalk comes to a halt. Too soon, in fact. It’s not time for that break yet. "Alright, everyone, close your books. Unfortunately, the time has come again. Once more, I find myself wondering, why is everyone so quiet? Am I perchance teaching something useful, against my better judgement?"

Or, a guided meditation for focus, based on mantras.

have you worked out what we’re looking for (Men's Hockey RPF) written by polyabathtub, performed by cosmicanon Summary: Things high school biology teacher Leon Draisaitl does not appreciate: - Being pulled out of one of his sections of freshman biology for three weeks - So that he can co-teach a junior year health class with PE teacher Matthew Tkachuk - Who is always encouraging his students to do things other than their homework, and has an easy job that doesn’t require him to spend his entire life lesson planning and grading - He’s also so unfairly hot that it makes it hard for Leon to remember that he’s in the closet at work

Dispatch [text, audio] (The Goblin Emperor Series - Katherine Addison) written by sophiegaladheon, performed by dontneedaclassroom Summary: Emperor Varenechibel IV has been killed and Csevet has been tasked with delivering the most important letter of his career as a courier.

Don't Hate the Player, Hate the Game: Episode 23 - Palmetto State Foxes (All For The Game - Nora Sakavic) created by Syr and Opalsong Summary: The sports podcast for people who don't like sports! Episode 23 focuses on Exy and the Palmetto State Foxes and the massive amounts of drama that happened this season. We didn't have to dig deep for this one folks; there was so much drama we didn't even get to it all.

So We Can Begin [text, audio] (Star Wars: The Clone Wars (2008) - All Media Types, Star Wars Prequel Trilogy) written by wanderingjedihistorian, performed by kbirb, flowerparrish, and wanderingjedihistorian Summary: Bail and Breha are soulmates, but they each have two soulmarks meaning they have a third soulmate. When Bail meets Fox, he knows he's found their third. The war makes Fox and Breha getting to know each other difficult, but messages and holo recordings are easy enough to send.