#superkooku

[likethexan]

What's your opinion on Hermes in adaptations ? I personally think that, like with other gods, a lot of nuance is often lost.

He's usually just a fun speedy guy in modern vision and we don't really see his status as god of merchants, travels, rhetoric, theft or his role as a psychopomp. It's really a shame, honestly.

He's portrayed as a bit witty, but I'd love to see him more as a trickster god (like in Argos' story), a persuasive talker, a traveler who explores the world and his relationships to mortals and various gods alike.

(like his relationship to youthfulness, being the second youngest Olympian, at odds with Apollo before reaching an agreement, taking care of Pan then Dionysus, some interactions with his mom Maia or his chthonic coworkers, etc...)

Idk I wanted to talk about him a bit instead of complaining about Dionysus for the 100th time this week 🤣. Since Hermes is your favorite god, I thought it'd interest you 😉.

@superkooku thank you for this ask aaaahhhh!!!

Honestly, Hermes as a deity has so many layers of potential when it comes to story writing, and while he is a Certified Happy Go Lucky Extrovert^TM, there are so many aspects of him that aren't just the comedic messenger!!

I could make a list of all the aspects of Hermes I'd personally love to see more in modern media, so here we go:

Hermes' role as the god of thieves and trickery (his darker self, his suave nature, how he killed one of Hera's favorite servants so effortlessly and still remains in her good graces? His caduceus has two snakes- in a dual way representing his slyness along with his role as a protector)

Hermes' role as the god of trade and merchants (you telling me my boy won't be good at haggling prices and owning the market? I need some version of him where he owns the black market or some crazy stuff)

Hermes' role as a psychopomp (and by extension his relationship with his Uncle Hades. What is his relationship with the other chthonic gods? I love what Hades Supergiant did with Hermes/Charon but I long for more! Especially when he's very much there as Persephone's personal escort to and fro the Underworld. Thanatos should not get all the credit for reaping souls and guiding them home. )

Hermes and Maia (extroverted son, introverted mom, so many things we can explore here! How he felt growing up in that cave, his relationship with Arcas who his mother adopted!)

Hermes and Zeus (his aspect of being the god of hospitality!!) (Modern Media might never give us the Zeus-Hermes-Baucis-Philemon adventures but I am still for it always)

Hermes' mental health and depression (+ the bad side of his relationship with his mother and father) (more specifically Lucian Dialogues of the Gods 4, where Hermes states he is the most miserable god in all heaven, working every day and waiting upon Zeus' grander sons from mortal women. Now in my interpretation, Zeus wouldn't be that harsh to Hermes to make him almost like an indentured servant, but reading this dialogue you can really feel his exhaustion from the God of Trade and many other things. We can all relate to the feeling of being brushed off when you're feeling down, and I think this is the least likely aspect of Hermes to be explored since we will be putting him out of the "lucky, carefree" god persona that most put him in)

Hermes and Atlas (going back to Dialogue 4, Hermes mentions being the grandson of Atlas. I find it fascinating bc how does Hermes feel looking at his grandfather? Does he hate his grandfather for siding with Kronos? Does he resent his dad for creating this void for them to not have a relationship? Does he fear that if he steps out of line Zeus could do the same to him? Does he talk to Atlas forced to hold up the sky? Very compelling stuff)

Hermes and Hera (*holds them very tightly* they are the stepmother and stepson duo. Hera can be a certified Apollo-Artemis-Dionysus hater but has almost no hate for Hermes from what I know. There is no retaliation for Argos' death, and we all know Hera can hold a grudge! She milked him once in an obscure myth and that makes him her honorary son alongside Heracles, even appearing to bind Ixion alongside Ares, Hera's biological son. Hermes even makes an effort to deliver all of the invitations to her wedding to Zeus. Sure all of these can be explained by his messenger/servant role, but they seem to have an amicable and fun relationship that most media just writes them down as "Hera hates him" looking at you Blood of Zeus **EDIT: all of these are mostly headcanon-territory, so apologies for that!)

Hermes and Perseus and his role as helper of heroes (his canon bf... people out there shipping Perseus and Medusa when HERMES IS RIGHT. THERE! Perseus is called a beloved of Hermes and I'm sad that people are erasing that in their Perseus retellings. Gifts seem to be a love language for Hermes since he gives him his sandals, sword AND invisibility helm free of charge)

Hermes and Ares / Mercury and Mars (sorry I'm biased the Ares stan in me is coming out forgive me I think Hermes and Ares as a symbiotic relationship is something that can be explored more. The Jar Myth where Hermes saves Ares lets into some of the vulnerabilities Ares has, Lucian Dialogue #1 and the differences with how they view Zeus, war vs diplomacy, both being athletic gods, both being lovers of dogs, and many other things I can pitch for the secret Ares/Hermes fans out there)

Hermes and Dionysus (more modern media of Hermes taking care of his little bro-bro!! To be best buds in the future, that's just so endearing and sweet and we need more interactions between them. Their duality is similar to Ares/Hermes, with the additional madness factor. How would Hermes react to Dionysus' darkest side as his guardian and brother? Also, Hermes would definitely shake up Dionysus' parties. Would they murder together? Maybe. Definitely.)

[dootznbootz]

I don't know about you, but I'm a bit mixed about Calypso in EPC. I mean, her songs are good, her singer's quite talented, so I don't have a problem... musically, at least.

But, story-wise, Calypso seems a bit too victim-like in my taste. "I'm not sorry for loving you" seems like it wants to make us sympathize with her and to consider her as Odysseus' friend.

While making her nuanced is interesting, the Epic fandom could be inclined to forget what she did to him in the Odyssey. And how miserable he was alongside her.

On the plus side, "Love in paradise" affirms she's the powerful one and Odysseus later confirms he doesn't love her romantically (plus Athena's 'he never cheated on his wife' line in "God games")

So it won't be detrimental for OdyPen 🥰.

What do you think ?

Oh, I'm definitely mixed about Calypso in Epic. As just like you said:

"While making her nuanced is interesting, the Epic fandom could be inclined to forget what she did to him in the Odyssey. And how miserable he was alongside her."

The Epic Fandom already DOES forget what happens in the Odyssey or think that they are the same thing. :/ I see stuff talking about Scylla in how Odysseus lights the torches and yet, it's tagged as "Odyssey". I love "light up six torches" as it's very dark but also very painful for Epic!Odysseus and that's really fun!

But I get saddened when people think that happened in the Odyssey ;~; as it's one of my favorite parts where Odysseus, knowing that Circe warned him, still goes to put on his armor to try and fight Scylla himself. He tried so fucking hard to save them. And they all grieved later on together. Eurylochus does mutiny in both but in the Odyssey, it isn't because of Scylla or anything. They were all just...Hungry ;~;

That's not even talking about how the Epic Fandom was when we only got the snippet of "There are other ways" ;~;

I still remember when there were jokes about how Odysseus is just like Hamilton and "Couldn't say No to this." Also Circe never did that to "protect her nymphs" in the Odyssey. She did it for funsies as she's a goddess and can do what she wants. That doesn't mean he was happy though.

I DO trust Jay to do well with Calypso's island. While I really am nervous about "I'm not Sorry for Loving you." like very nervous. I think HE'LL also make it clear that Odysseus isn't well or happy. As he has that cut song with the lyrics of:

"Is this some kind of trick? Pretending I can go Because if so, you're sick My heart's already broken"

So even though he cut that song because the beat and the music did NOT fit the situation, I'm very sure he'll have another like it showing Odysseus' despair and suffering.

I just... sighs I'm in a funky situation where I love Epic. I love it a lot. I think it's a genuinely good and fun retelling. I think while some spots are inaccurate, some are still really neat. I just get sad about this almost...disdain towards the actual Odyssey?

"Oh, Odysseus doesn't mention Penelope and Telemachus as much as he does in Epic-" Yes, he does. It's in so many of the metaphors and there's so many moments where he's clearly thinking about them. I love singing Penelope's name longingly too but an ancient epic poem is gonna be a lil different xD

"Oh Polites isn't really in it-" ...And?? That's okay. You enjoy Jay's character he created who really isn't in the Odyssey as much.

"Odysseus is such a manwhore in the Odyssey-" I am beating you over the head with a fucking rock.

Jay is clearly so fucking passionate and cares about this story so so much (he had a MENELAUS SONG (I grieve it's loss every day ;~; THEY CAN BOTH SIMP FOR THEIR HOT AF WIVES)) He had other characters planned!

But yeah ;~; I get so fucking sad every time someone talks about Epic being better than the Odyssey. Like even JAY wanted to clear that up that "hey, the Odyssey is really cool! I mean I wrote this because I love it so much." and yet... people don't wanna know or even TRY to understand what happens in the actual Epics.

I have hope. I just hope the FANDOM follows through.

[wolfythewitch]

Hi, Wolfy ! Will you make other shimejis in the future ? Maybe post-Odyssey OdyPen or little Telemachus. You choose

Hmmm if I get the urge to HAHA

I have toyed with the idea of doing comms for it but otherwise, probably not

[sinagingan]

Oxford Pals.

I couldn't think of a pose for the last one so I dug up an old redraw (ref under the cut).

[dootznbootz]

That's so sweet 🥹 Thank you so much! 😭

I've made so many wonderful friends in this community too! Thank you all for making everyday a wonderful experience! 🥹

@thehelplessmortals @nikoisme @nikoisme @gotstabbedbyapen @iroissleepdeprived @perroulisses @cygniavenue @orchestrated-haunting @idamante @bumblebeehug @ochiody @roachcicle @mydnyteraven @mythology-void @fangirlofallthefanthings and many more!

Reblog if you've found friendship because of your fandoms.

(X)

[elianzis]

thank you for idea @superkooku

[bassiascoparia]

What other Greek mythology based books would you recommend

Greek Mythology based books? Well, if you're looking for stories like PJO, I don't know-

But I would really recommend reading the Odyssey and Iliad, even translated versions of them with easier-to-read language. I would also recommend reading Euripedes' Bacchae and his other works like Medea.

@margaretkart

@superkooku

@katerinaaqu

The tagged people will be able to recommend more books like the ones I listed above.

[katerinaaqu]

The silence that must have followed the killing of Hector must have been deafening around the Trojan plain! No one would dare to move a muscle, no one would dare to utter a sound. No cheer from the Greeks no moans from the Trojans. They are all frozen. Because this is not a triumph and the tragedy is too big to be spoken.

That was the very moment that both the Trojans and the Greeks shared the very same feeling of destruction; The Greeks and Trojans that moment synchronize their emotions. They both know they lost their best fighter that day...

The dead body of Hector hit the sand at the Trojan plain; suddenly their best fighter and their symbol of strength, their example was gone. The Trojans lost part of their spirit. The Greeks see their best fighter a step closer to the underworld that day; descending to madness as he is desecrating the dead. Even if they didn't know the prophecy about his premature death they know now that Achilles will die; for his hubris he will die! Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but he will. They probably know he was already dead the moment he saw Patroclus dead!

Ultimately the final face off and the final downfall of two great heroes. One towards immediate death and the other to madness and inevitable death!

Hector knew he was going to die; he knew no one ever survived Achilles. He went to that battle in full conscious. He does it for the honor of his people and his family for everyone he cares about. He knows his promise to his son would not be fulfilled. That his wife will suffer that his people will be left in danger without him since they used him as a symbol and support. And yet he goes. Because he has to. Because he also knows deep down that he triggered the rage of Achilles when he killed Patroclus.

Achilles knew he died the moment he saw Patroclus dead. He died inside and he is ready to die in the future. He wants to die and drag Hector with him. He knows he'll die because he'll fight. He also knew that his previous thought that he had nothing personal against the Trojans is long dead now. His fury and anger is not heroic; is destructive, sad, desperate and suicidal. He knows him fighting will lead to his death and he no longer cares...

Neither side took the upper hand that day. Neither side lost it. Both sides know they suffered a great loss... And that this would be just the beginning of the descend...

Something inspired by my conversation with @superkooku after our small conversation in my latest post you can find here

[aliciavance4228]

@superkooku I'm gonna print and frame it.

[amostcuriousmythicist]

So thanks to a convo with @superkooku was just reminded that I always had this idea for what an mcu like franchise but with Greek Heroes woukd look like.

Picture this:

-The first part would be about the voyage of the Argonauts so as to introduce all the heroes

-Next part be a direct follow up with Jason and Medea’s marriage falling apart

-Next would naturally involve a trilogy dedicated to Theseus 🙃.

The first part being his journey to Athens, with Heracles making a cameo, based off that fragment from the lost epic the Theseid where Theseus helps Heracles capture the Ceryneian Hind (yes that exist)

next part would be his battle with the Minotaur.

the final part being his journey back to home to Athens where EVERYTHING Starts going wrong for the fatherless Athenian

-This is followed up with the Calydonian Boar Hunt (where we get the old gang back together)

-we then get a little side episode around the Centauromachy where Theseus, Pirithous, Peleus, and Nestor basically genocide the Centaur race for being creepy with women

-Next part being Heracles 9th labor where he sailed to meet the Amazons. Various sources have heroes like Theseus, Peleus, Telamon, or just the entire Argonauts crew joining Heracles on his adventure.

-followed up next with the time Heracles went to go and sack Troy. In later sources like Dares the Phrygian, he got help from Telamon, Peleus, the Dioscuri, and Nestor.

-Final part would be the Seven Against Thebes since it was essentially the proto Trojan war.

[annymation]

I reread the backstory of the villains and at the end you mentioned that Amaya is Persephone and Magnifico is Hades (from Disney). I was wondering which of the ancient Greek gods (or other characters from Greek mythology) do you associate Asha and Aster with?

So I kept looking for greek love stories with happy endings... And as ya'll can imagine that's a pointless endeavor, most are tragedies, and the few happy ones we do have don't fit with Asha and Aster.

So instead I decided to just pick greek characters that remind me of Asha and Aster, regardless of who those loved.

I'd say Asha reminds me most to Medea

Now hear me out, I know what you're thinking (If you're familiar with her myth)

"But Anny! Medea killed people!"

Yeah yeah I know, that's not what gives me Asha vibes in her, quick summary for those who don't know:

Medea was a princess, that fell in love with a "hero" named Jason

(She only fell in love with him because Hera made her fall in love with him, so she would help him survive the many trials her father was putting him through, Jason was like Hera's champion, that's why she gave him this lil intervention)

So Jason took Medea home with him, after she literally saved his life, and they had two kids together. But later, Jason decided he wanted to marry another princess, like, one still in power instead of Medea that was a run away princess.

Medea obviously got furious that her husband would marry someone else just for the perks. But she didn't just sit down and took it like many other maidens in greek mythology would, nuh-uh, she started plotting her revenge.

She elaborated a plan to kill both their kids and Jason's new girlfriend, through clever scheming and also potions- because did I mention she makes potions? Yeah turns out Medea was also a big inspiration for me when writing Amaya, she's kinda my favorite girl in greek mythology.

So WHY does she reminds me of Asha? Well simple, Asha stood up against injustice and did everything she possibly could to outwit the villains and had plenty of moments where her quick thinking saved her by a hair (Flashback to the climax of Kingdom of Wishes). Asha plans things out and speaks her mind, she and Medea are both strong, not physically, but in their wit.

I guess I could also compare her to Ariadne since she was also clever by helping Theseus escape the minotaur labyrinth, buuuuut Ariadne isn't as cool as Medea, like come on, at the end of the classical stage play she RIDES HELIOS FLYING CHARIOT LIKE A FREAKIN GODDESS JUST TO TAUNT JASON!!! SAYING SHE TOOK EVERYTHING FROM HIM!!! THEN SHE PROPHESIZES HE'LL DIE ALONE!!!! AND THAT THE GODS ARE ON HER SIDE!!! BECAUSE HES A LYING LIL OATH BREAKER!!!

Anyway, it gives me the vibes of Asha flying on her hand drawn flying carpet to defeat Magnifico and Amaya, and then saying "No one believes your lies anymore" while they're being turned into stone, she's just a badass like that.

As for Aster, maybe it's the Epic: The Musical fan in me talking, but eh, Odyseus.

Simply because I can totally see Aster going through hell and back to find Asha, the same way Odyseus did for Penelope, and also because I can see him being dumb enough to give his full name and address to a cyclops he just blinded. But as more and more shenanigans happen (And by that I mean most of his army freaking dying) he becomes more willing to be more ruthless for the sake of his men that are left and so they can go back home, similar to how Aster matured and even got a lil sadistic in the end there when he decided to turn the villains into stone.

Alternatively, I could also let the Hadestown fan in me win and say he reminds me of Orpheus, but that makes me too sad, considering what happens to Orpheus and Eurydice in the end. Let's say if you cut Orpheus turning to look back, yeah that relationship is very Aster and Asha vibes.

@superkooku you like greek mythology right? Do you have other ideas?

[dootznbootz]

I fully blame the Telegony for starting this. It was the first to break up OdyPen and starting the whole "Odysseus is willingly unfaithful" interpretation

EUGAMMON OF CYRENE, WHEN I FUCKING GET YOU!

He needs to be thankful that history is keeping me from yelling at him. 👀 I would leave a book review that would make him CRY. HOMER would leave a book review that would make him cry. My gosh, I wanna see something silly like a meme of some sort with Homer about to fucking WRECK Eugammon, that's so funny.

like it's just such a mess. not only against his character but there are so many points that go against the Odyssey.

1.) Odysseus' line is supposed to only have one son each time. That's Telemachus. You can't just retcon shit to have your OC exist in canon, Eugammon. At least admit it's an AU (Joking...Kind of. 👀)

2.) Tiresias' prophecy. (even fucking wikipedia mentions this fuck up!)

3.) Ultimate wife guy/family man, whose marriage bed is literally a symbol on how he's rooted like a tree on Ithaca, rooted to his marriage, where he belongs, apparently needs to do fuck all and wander about.

4.) You're telling me, Penelope, Queen of Ithaca, was into this marriage circle bullshit? That she would marry he beloved husband's murderer??

Also with the whole "he had a new wife and was with until she died." HOW OLD WAS ODYSSEUS?! HOW OLD WAS PENELOPE?! Odypen were both probably around mid to late 40s when they reunited (at least that's how I see them lol) FOR ANOTHER WOMAN TO GO THROUGH HER WHOLE LIFE WITH HIM???? ARE THEY 150 YEARS OLD????!

And honestly, I think you're right, if it weren't for that stupid poem, I think people would actually study the Odyssey and look through it like, "huh...You know, he seems pretty scared of these goddesses...And really obsessed with this cool as fuck woman. Neat." BUT NO!!! SOME DINGUS HAD TO WRITE BAD FANFIC THAT FOR SOME REASON PEOPLE ALWAYS BRING UP IN YOUTUBE COMMENTS!

You know what? Yeah. Meme time of Homer wrecking Eugammon.

[aliciavance4228]

I was searching various sources on the Internet about Perseus and Dionysus' war in order to provide @superkooku with an answer and found this part from the Dionysiaca:

"[The Argive river] Inakhos was witness to both [Perseus and Dionysos], when the heavy bronze pikes of Mykenai resisted the ivy and deadly fennel, when Perseus sickle in hand gave way to Bakkhos with his wand, and fled before the fury of Satyroi cyring Euoi; Perseus cast a raging spear, and hit frail Ariadne unarmed instead of Lyaios the warrior. I do not admire Perseus for killing one woman, in her bridal dress still breathing of love."

Later he says that she was armed and that he petrified her. Besides, aren’t you supposed to remain impartial and not express your personal opinions, Nonnus? Even your wanna-be objective narrator is an unreliable one.

[superkooku]

I wonder how does Asclepius react whenever Apollo send plague to human. (•• )

Honestly, me too ! Very interesting question.

I figure Asclepius is pretty lenient towards Apollo's darker side. Ofc he'd know about it, considering that's the literal reason why his mother is dead (if it's Coronis). And Apollo wouldn't just hide something about his son, because everyone knows how threatening the gods are anyway. And Chiron or someone else would've spilled the beans.

But precisely because he forgave his father for Coronis and other stuff, I think he just lives with the fact that his father can be a wrathful deity.

In fact, Asclepius DOES have his tiny wrathful side too according to one source. Other than him being sassy and reckless, there's also one source where he punished people. Here's my post in the subject :

But it's super poetic how Apollo and Asclepius work together despite their domains coming at odds from time to time. If Asclepius heals people Apollo struck with illness, I'm sure neither of them will take it like a personal betrayal and they'll treat this in a professional way.

Or Apollo sends his son as a "blessing" for when people repent. When Asclepius isn't too busy somewhere else, ofc

So yeah, while they'd definitely disagree on some things, I'd never see either of them hold a grudge against each other because they work against each other.

And I don't think Asclepius would go heal people that profoundly offended Apollo, maybe innocent inhabitants in the city-state but not the perpetrators.

Again, this is just speculation since no source shows Asclepius reacting to this but it's nonetheless very interesting to point out.

[dootznbootz]

You've got to be fucking kidding me

That's too on the fucking nose. slkdjf

@superkooku @perroulisses @gotstabbedbyapen @ladyartichokie @mythology-void @shafeeyaart @bumblebeehug and anyone else!

here's a random word generator--whatever word it gives you is now the thing you are the deity of

[dootznbootz]

It's a bit surprising (in a good way) how much the Epic fandom loves Penelope. They even talk about her and Athena sometimes, which I totally dig.

My only tiny gripe is the whole spartan thing being kinda inaccurate because she definitely didn't get fight training, at least not a very intensive one. But otherwise, it's so good to see that.

Exactly, it's been amazing seeing so much Penny love 🥹

And while yes, the whole "She's buff because she's from Sparta" is annoying, (I write my Penelope buff and athletic too...But that's because I'm silly and I'm being self-indulgent, not because she's Spartan lol) I'm still like so happy with how much love she's getting :D (and yeah, I'm drooling over Buff Penny's lol)

Like I STILL think there should be a song between "Fight Little Wolf" and "We'll Be Fine" with Penelope being a mom for Telemachus, because we've seen her as the cunning woman she is in the Challenge, we see her as a wife in "Would you fall in love with me again", and neither of those songs talk about Telemachus really :( like... She also loves her son so so much. Plus she would absolutely HEAR the fight happening and be like "What the fuck are you doing to my son?!" Like... Pen wouldn't just hole herself up and cry while knowing Telemachus is getting beat up. :/ And at the very least, she'd patch him up afterward.

But in general I'm very happy about the silliness from the Epic fandom with Penelope <3 it's been so much fun