#like. look. anti endos who DON'T shit on endos or pro endos or endo neutrals GOOD ON YOU.

[thekids-onholiday]

Really gettin FUCKING TIRED of seeing anti-endos interact or follow us.

Like. Y'all.

Y'ALL.

Did you not read our DNI???

Like- okay. To be real for a second. Anti endos who DON'T tell endos to off themselves or violently fakeclaim and shit on their existence. Y'all are FINE. Y'all just have a different opinion or view than us. But the AGGRESSIVE anti endos who actively tell endos to kts and all that shit? Get out. Full STOP. GET OUT.

We're fucking endo neu??? Why do y'all keep following us or interacting???

You're breaking your own DNI's guys!?!

Plus Y'ALL FAKECLAIM

Y'ALL DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOIN ON WITH OTHER SYSTEMS. WHY DO Y'ALL DECIDE YOU GET THE RIGHT TO BE THE "Yeah you're a system!" POLICE???

WE'RE TRAUMAFORMED AND WE DON'T FUCK WITH FAKECLAIMING OTHER SYSTEMS BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW HOW THEIR FUCKIN HEAD WORKS??? NEITHER DO Y'ALL?! Y'ALL DON'T KNOW HOW THEIR FUCKIN BRAIN WORKS WHY ARE YOU TELLING THEM WHAT THEY ARE OR AREN'T???

[arrayoflightarchives]

Array of Light Archives Intro

We are the Array of Light Archives! A very silly system that mostly just shit posts but we can occasionally be v funny and/or relatable if that's ur cup of tea :3

Pls feel free to read more, there will be an general info section and then more detailed information past the cut

It will probably be a lot as we ramble but there are key points highlighted in pink

General Info

-–— System Name: Array of Light Archives

-–— Collective Name: Kris or (sometimes) Array

-–— Collective Prns: He/Him

-–— Collective Identity: Trans = Bi = Aspec

-–— Body Age: 18

-–— Collective Interests: Bears in Trees ¦ Haikyuu, Sasaki to Miyano + other anime/manga ¦ Crochet ¦ Good Omens ¦ Bujo ¦ Marauders ¦ + a number of other things

Boundaries

DNI

General dni of bigotry, pro-ship, maps etc -> bigorty I'm meaning homophobia, transphobia, ablesim etc - basic dni shit

Endos + Pro-endo (mostly alright with endo-neutral, but more comfortable w/ those leaning more towards anti)

NSFW blogs

Fake claimers

Antis (anti things like xenogenders, neopronouns, furries, therians, alter humans and other kin etc, if ur anti those things dni)

Radqueers and Trans-ID

Syscourse specific blogs

Pro-Isreal stance

Other Boundaries

We don't mind some discussion of syscourse but that's not what the blog is abt so pls don't bring it too much here

Not mdni but just, we are legally an adult so pls try not to interact too much (one of interactions are fine) if ur under the age of 14/15 cause it feels weird to us sorry

We are traumagenic + mentally ill and therefore have triggers. We won't share them but if smt does trigger us, then it will be deleted sorry

Although we're a v punk collective, pls try not too bring extreme politics here

Pls don't dm us unless ur a mutual or have asked and we have given permission to dm before hand :3

Any questions abt dni/boundaries then feel free to drop an ask!!

Other Sys Info

We are a traumagenic OSDD system who have varying degrees of amnesia

We are autistic and adhd and have a history of associated mental health issues

We also have OCD and Emetophobia although that won't come up much

We are brainmade heavy although we still have many fictives from a variety of different sources

Feel free to ask any questions about the system or alters just know we might not want to answer - but most of the time we love talking about our system

Blog Info

General

We are neurodivergent so we will probably post abt that alongside our other stuff

This blog is probably abt half fandom posting, about 40% system posting and the last 10% is live logging or other shit like thoughts + opinions

Although that could honestly just change depending on frequent fronters

Carrd: (it's got some details but most of it is on here anyways but go have a look if you want)

Sideblogs

This will probably continue to grow -> they're all just alters personal blogs

@its-krisscross-applesauce -> 🐝

@omi-omi-says -> 🍙

@indis-vines -> 🌿

@rhye-bread -> 💯

Alter Info

@torii-ii -> 🖥️

@seb-lowe-loml -> 🌀

Hosts:

¦ Omi - He/Him - 23 - host and (angry) protector - sign off: 🍙

¦ Kris - He/Him - 17 - co-host and online social mask - sign off: 🐝

Other blog frequents:

¦ Kristian - He/Him - 38-40 - protector - sign off: 🐻

¦ Indi - She/They - 28 - caretaker - sign off: 🌿

¦ Rhyland - Xe/Fae/He/They - 16 - Symptom Holder - sign off: 💯

¦ Daisy - They/She - 16 - Social caretaker - sign off: 🌼

¦ Angel - Angel/Any - ageless - Gatekeeper - sign off: 🪐

¦ Dylan - He/Him - 17/18 - Protector + Academic - sign off: 🌀

Other sign offs you might see:

❓-> blurry or unsure of who's fronting

🩷 -> Liz || 🐜 -> Daniel || 🪨 -> Kiri || 🏐 -> Kenma || 🍊 -> Caiden || 🌱 -> Charlie || 📖 -> Elise || 🩹 -> Ghost || 📎 -> Alec || 🍷-> Mara || 🖥️ -> Tori

There are more people in our system and they will be added if they post anything but for now this is the list

If they have or make intro posts, they will be hyperlinked to their names so feel free to check them out but those will only happen if they decide to make one

We also have quite a few littles and they most likely will not be on here unless it is deemed okay by their protector

[sophieinwonderland]

hey im endo neutral before you go off on one, but just came in here to say triggering people's psychosis is cringe and fail, so is triggering abandonment/attachment issues, so is going against a group of highly traumatised indivoduals (cause lets face it thats exactly what you did, regardless of whether they accept you or not or whether you think theyre "bigoted" or not) and ALSO you really do not give pro endos a good look and maybe you should like reevaluate what you post or think for more than like three seconds before hitting post (literally anyone could have seen how that post would be incredibly triggering). i look through your blog every once in a while to look at all the papers you post and all your arguments cause i like having a nuanced view and i understand it feels shitty for people to not believe in an integral part of you - i have the same thing when it comes to my religion but i dont fucking go around telling non believers im gonna take everything they love away from them because im not an asshole? have a day <3

I'm just curious... is there a group actively identifying as anti-[your religion]?

Do you have to regularly deal with non-believers coming into your religious spaces just to tell you that your religion isn't real and that you're faking your religious experiences?

How many times have you been told to kill yourself because of your religion?

When was the last time you saw someone say cyberbullying needed to be brought back specifically to bully people with your religion?

When you introduce people to your religion, are the non-believers accusing you of "grooming" them?

Do you want to know something? I don't actually care if people believe in me or not. That vast majority of people don't know that tulpas exist because it's still pretty niche.

That's fine. They can be taught later.

Other people people are aware of bits and pieces but don't get involved and don't believe either. They have their beliefs and keep those to themselves. I can respect that.

These people aren't anti-endos.

But then you have a hate group who have made it part of their identity to spread constant hate and disinformation about us. These are not simply "non-believers." This a group that is united solely by their hatred of us.

And this is probably more controversial in the pro-endo community, but I don’t even mind the "endogenics are all traumagenics in denial" people, in theory. As long as they're respectful and aren't actively spreading hate or standing with those who do.

I say in theory though because practically every one I've actually encountered is still gatekeeping space and resources. And that somehow makes it even worse to me because while disbelieving in endogenic plurality is ignorant, even if willfully ignorant, believing we're confused trauma survivors in denial and still treating us like shit and gatekeeping terms means they're just knowingly hurting other trauma survivors.

Don't you dare try to frame this as me simply going after people for not believing me.

[syscultureis]

Im sorry if this isnt appropriate to ask, you dont have to answer considering you lean more anti-endo, but I dont understand what arguments are there for pro or even neutral endo? Ive honestly really tired to understand because ive seen quite a few systems now say things like "I use to be anti-endo but now ive been informed" or "I use to be anti-endo but ive been educated" and im just not getting? Whats compelling these people to start beliving in the existence of non trauma based DID? Have I just not been informed enough? I tired doing research about it but all I could really fine were people saying "Well we dont know everything about the human mind so you dont know whats posible, you cant tell people what their experiencing is wrong" (I just dont really agree with this point) or if someone just believes spiritually they have like ghosts in the brain??? (As an ashiest I just cant get behind that one) Or they seem to have a bunch of links to studies that supposably prove that scientists also believe in endos but ive yet to read all of them threw but from briefly glancing at a few of these links most of them dont even link to studies having anything to do with them. Its all just very confusing to be honest and I wanted to get someone else perspective on it.

I think most of it is people either A) being tired of getting hate and giving in and just saying they're pro-endo

B) They read the articles endos link, not realizing a majority of them are not made by unbiased people who have actually done proper study. Most of the articles I've seen endos and pro-endos link are not actually done by people who have the correct resources, or they go into a study already biased and instead of doing a double blind or keeping their biases out of their studies, they do the full study themselves and let their biases effect the results. But if you haven't taken actual psychology classes you likely don't know to watch out for these things, and it's easy to look at them and think "oh yeh, these are professional and real so they're right" even tho they're not

Or C) They doom scrolled through pro-endo shit so much that their brain started to agree with it because they were submerging themselves in the community, and when you do that with anything enough your brain will start to justify it, especially if it's causing you stress because the brain wants to solve the stress issue so it just starts to make you think you agree with what's being said

We've actually had C almost happen to us with a few things because some of us have issues with doom scrolling, but were lucky enough to be able to realize when it starts ro happen and take a step back from it

I really don't fault people for being tricked by the misinformation, or just giving up on getting hate for no reason

It's just frustrating to see people act as if because they used to be anti-endo and now they're not they're suddenly enlightened and must be right

We used to be pro-endo, and now we're not and we don't use that as a way to show our view point as the right one.

We will always encourage people to do their own research, and whether they end up pro/neu/anti endo we don't care after that as long as they've researched with actual good sources

If we could find good sources on non-traumagenic systems being possible we would absolutely change our views again, but we've looked. When we were pro-endo we were desperate to justify things, and we just could not find an actual reliable source

So yeh, always do your own research, form your own opinions, just always also make sure the research you're looking at is reliable

[sysmedsaresexist]

what does endo neutral mean

"so in your opinion do endos exist or not?" *non committal shrug. endogenic systems now only exist halfway. the right half specifically*

???

Hello anon, mod signal here, the Endo Neutral Mod.

I have terrible news for you but endo neutral, just like pro and anti endo, is a nuanced take like any other. But I can describe what it means to me personally.

It means I'm not in the business of examining peoples perception to see if it's "true" or not. I don't care about debating if endos are real. I'm not going to tell people that the way they're experiencing the world is a lie. I just start giving a shit when people start spewing bullshit in the direction of cdd systems.

I give a shit when endo systems look at someone whos telling them they're a cdd system and try to fakeclaim their trauma as a way to convince them they're actually an endo. I give a shit when young cdd systems are folded into endo communities and encouraged to split and dissociate in the process. I give the most massive shit of all when endos start veering into extremely debunked iatriogenic theories as a way to somehow prove their existence.

That's all it means. Though a world in which endo neutral did just mean that I only believe in like... a willogenic headmate only being able to switch into the left side of someone's body. That might be a slightly funnier world. With even dumber syscourse.

[circular-bircular]

hshdgdbd thank you sorry i am Angered and need to. ramble

anyways,,, i hate hate HATE how certain anti endos, especially recently, lump in pro-endos w/ endogenic systems. i saw a cool blog, a cdd help blog right? and i would love resources! i love help! but wouldn't you know it, i look at the dni and it says ENDOS & PRO ENDOS DNI. while this would be fine, if not frustrating, it was the way they worded it... “if you're neutral or just don't want to get involved with syscourse it's okay, as long as you're traumagenic, but endos and supporters dni.” ok first of all "supporters" ?? i do not recall paying the endogenic sysems. but also im still traumagenic??? im still a cdd system??? why are you saying that like these “endo supporters” aren't traumagenic ??? what. just because i dont give 1 (one) shit what endogenic systems do, as long as they don't claim CDDs aren't traumagenic, I'M the bad guy???? i can't get fucking resources??? i'm not traumagenic anymore??? is my childhood trauma gone. i made the decision to not care what people do and to touch grass and suddenly my chronic childhood trauma got deleted is that it. do you realize what you're doing??? “oh but it's ABLEIST but but endos have HURT me” but im not an endogenic system. but i just want resources. but i just want to learn more about my disorder. but im a cdd system just like you. and YEAH. maybe it's entitled of me. to think people's DNIs are stupid. but you're supposedly giving fucking trauma resources, i think anyone should be able to use that shit irregardless, and i think it's fucking INANE to bar anyone from using those. i know this rant lacks nuance (i.e. endogenic systems w/ trauma, multigenic did systems, etc) and i'm sorry but it's hard to think right now i am. Fuming™ at people's idiocracy. Jesus H. Christ.

Ooooough

While I can understand running anti-endo blogs that ask supporters not to interact (hello, I run one), I don’t get withholding *actual resources*. Like. There’s a difference between a userbox blog and sources.

My advice is to break that DNI quietly. I mean. If it’s something like a journal template for alter communication, what the fuck are they going to do, break into your house and confiscate your notebook?

Also it’s a stupid point anyways, because what you described *is* a neutral standpoint. “Who the fuck cares I just want to have my disorder in peace” was why syscourse unaligned got coined in the first place. I should know, since I helped coin it.

Do what you want forever anon. Good luck with everything

[system-of-a-feather]

If you are still taking asks about your syscourse stance from anti endos (I'm a bit late) :

1. Excluding those who do not remember their trauma or do not believe it to be enough to be traumagenic, do you believe that endos are really experiencing systemhood and not some other kind of plurality or multiplicity?

I cannot understand how someone who doesn't have any dissociation could ever have alters. It just doesn't make sense at all to me, no matter what angle I look at it from, and I cannot find any sources explaining it either. I do not *not* believe that endos are experiencing some kind of multiplicity but I don't think it's necessarily systemhood, if that makes sense?

2. How do you not get jaded by some of the things you see happening in the pro-endo spaces?

I'm talking about things like people labeling themselves "trans-programmed" or "trans-RAMCOA" (and so many more), those same people often calling traumagenic systems privileged, and other people who keep spreading misinfo about OSDDID (for example, that you don't need trauma to have DID), etc.

I know this isn't the entire community but I rarely see much opposition to those behaviors, which makes me feel very unsafe amongst most pro-endos.

1. Excluding those who do not remember their trauma or do not believe it to be enough to be traumagenic, do you believe that endos are really experiencing systemhood and not some other kind of plurality or multiplicity?

Honestly, I think the only thing in this topic is a lot of arguing over semantics and if words can be shared. From what I'm getting, I think you equate systemhood / being a system to being traumagenic / DID / OSDD exclusively. From the sounds of it, I think you seem to be open to the idea that they do experience multiplicity / plurality so I don't think we disagree there much. I personally don't think "system" and "systemhood" needs to be an explicitly DID/OSDD term but its also a debate I have very little interest in. I am cool with saying that "system" is a term that people can use regardless of their nature cause - to me - it's just a way of labeling yourself.

Also, while I am not sure if it is similar or the same as DID/OSDD alters, I honestly could see how someone could have disordered plurality without being traumagenic simply due to how prolonged internet usage can cause a dissociative effect, especially in situations where roleplaying features are around and those have been documented in clinical studies - particularly around the proposed internet gaming disorder and internet gaming addiction. There is a lot of research to be done whether the experience of DID/OSDD like symptoms late in age is anywhere comparable to the more traditionally researched and understood DID/OSDD that stems from complex and chronic childhood trauma - but it's honestly a pretty false notion that dissociation ONLY comes due to trauma. (ADHD has it as a symptom, internet usage has a dissociative affect on the self, substances can also do it, meditation also can do it) So I figure with the combination of developing research in developmental psychopathology and research into other things that can cause dissociation that we might honestly find other means of developing alters or alter-like experiences in people who did not experience the extended trauma often seen in our current understanding of DID/OSDD.

2. How do you not get jaded by some of the things you see happening in the pro-endo spaces?

I just divide "pieces of shit" from "people just living their lives". //shot//

Honestly, really though, if someone is being an asshole, bigotted, extremely fucked up, etc I consider them first and foremost their fucked up group and then the neutral or positive group identities they have second.

So if someone is trans-programmed and identify as endo - I identify them FIRST as a toxic and fucked up trans-ID person who happens to identify as part of the endo community. I attribute the trans-ID shit to their trans-ID beliefs and give the overall community the benefit of the doubt and good faith that the overlap is a Ven Diagram and not a circle.

Generally I like to avoid generalizing groups as all bad based on their bad corners, especially if I've seen the community actually make efforts to improve. I personally found the latter of the that statement earned with the good faith I saw in a lot of quiogenic and endogenic systems when the tulpa-discourse came up and a good number of servers and people made the effort to leave the appropriated terms behind.

From that point I went "aight ok" and divided the endo community between racists and people with no intent of improving themselves and their community and endos that just honestly want to live their life and are doing the best in their knowledge to not harm others.

TransID people I generally put in the same group as the Tulpa people and just click my tongue in disgust and block them.

But TLDR I just honestly would prefer to give the people that haven't done anything wrong a chance to just live their lives without hurting people rather than punishing them with the people that really don't care the harm they do. Just cause some people who claim to be part of your group are pieces of shit, doesn't mean everyone in that group both 1) supports and wants those people in their group and 2) deserve to be shunned, harassed, and treated with poorly.

[syscourse-confessions]

I'm part of a transmasc system, and I wish everyone doing syscourse would stop and take a good, hard look at themselves to see if they're perpetuating transandrophobia. I personally am endo-neutral (well, I have a lot of thoughts about various syscourse issues, but to make it simple, I'm somewhere on the fence) and I see this from both anti endos and pro endos. So I just thought I'd drop in and make a list of some things that everyone should keep in mind, regardless of your stance on syscourse:

Stop calling people sysmeds. While I understand the harm that anti-endos can cause, being anti-endo is not at all comparable to a medical view of trans people considering the history behind the transmedicalist movement. Transmedicalism is a movement that has some of its roots in autohomoeroticism theory, something that dehumanizes GNC and gay trans men with the end goal of making it appear like we do not exist. Being anti-endo is not and will never be the same in any way to being transmed.

No more calling people "traumascum." Not only does the above point apply, but also, it's incredibly insulting to people with trauma, and it's never okay to attack someone for their trauma even if they are the worst person in the world.

No, having a transmasc alter as an AMAB person (or as a cis woman/nontransmasc AFAB) will never be the same as actually being transmasc. I'm all for transmasc alters in nontransmasc systems speaking about their own experiences, but please be mindful not to invade spaces where you're not welcome or talk over people. Every transmasc space will have different rules surrounding alters in nontransmasc systems, so just ask.

Anti-endos specifically, no more infantilizing transmasc endogenic systems. Just because you disagree with them on this one issue does not mean that you should be transandrophobic to them. Your traumagenic transmasc friends hear you when you make fun of one of us.

Remember, calling out transandrophobia shouldn't be a "gotcha" to win your syscourse argument. Calling out transandrophobia should be an end goal in itself, not something you use as a means to further your own agenda. Supporting transmascs means supporting us even when it's not convenient to you. Be willing to call this shit out from people you agree with on syscourse.

Think twice before you call a system (or anyone, really) out for having done something "problematic" (I'm thinking in regards to shipping and stuff like that). I am begging people to understand how trans men are targeted unfairly by these types of witch-hunts regularly, especially when we're gay, and please please please don't contribute to this issue. If you see something like this happen to someone, my best advice for how you can help the victim is by becoming friends with them and being supportive. This can help especially if some of the system's friends stopped supporting them after the witch-hunt.

Stop using "AFAB system" as a synonym for "system whose body presents femininely." You are excluding transfems, who have very similar experiences to AFAB people who present as women or feminine, and you are leaving transmasc experiences out as a side note.

That should be it for now! I'll return later if I think of anything else. I'm on anon so that nobody sends me harassment over this.

📬.

📬- Syscourse replies encouraged

[encodedkismet]

⋆ °◞☆ → shadow enjoyer ← ☆◟° ⋆

☆→ about! ←☆

✰ i'm Nyx/Kismet! i'm one headmate in a 3-years-long-questioning traumagenic system, bodily 22, and my pronouns are it/✨.

✰ i'm xenogender, auDHD, alterhuman, NPD, among other things. i like the fictional freak shit, yes even THAT fictional freak shit, and while i'm not active in ship discourse spaces, i do reblog discourse-related posts sometimes when they really resonate.

✰ i'm proship, comship, pro-endo, pro-selfdx, anti-harassment, anti-censorship, anti-radfem, and anti-sanist, among other similar things.

✰ i accept anyone who refuses to harm another being, physically or mentally, with open arms. yes, even the ones you want to prescribe as abusers without them even doing anything wrong.

☆→ interests! ←☆

✰ i have a lot of interests! too many to really feel like listing here. my main one is Sonic, and that's 99% of the fannish stuff i post, but i also like some other stuff.

fannish interests: Sonic, Homestuck/Hiveswap, Undertale/Deltarune, Drawn to Life, Portal, Fullmetal Alchemist, Mother series, RWBY

music interests: Red Vox, Pink Floyd, Coldplay, Imagine Dragons (their early stuff, not so much their new stuff), Porter Robinson, Madeon, and a little here and there of other stuff too. especially prog rock, emo, and metal

general interests: alterhumanity, programming, web design, all forms of creating, running servers, crystals, plushies

☆→ BYF ←☆

don't follow if you're just gonna whine in my ask box about my opinions. you'll get laughed about and ignored buddy

this is by no means a horny blog but i reblog posts about horny things now and then so i'd really prefer only 18+ follow me. i won't block you if youre at least 16+ but anyone younger..... euuuhhh no. i run an all ages server but this blog sure aint all ages

i block liberally and inconsistently. usually you can figure out why youre blocked by looking at my opinions up there. if it's been a while and you've changed opinions since i blocked you, feel free to message me somewhere & i may reconsider. i don't rly hold grudges.

if you can't accept that people either are neutral or present neutral on the discourse of the week, this blog is not for you. i have many controversial opinions and i don't vibe with people who will refuse to engage with someone without knowing their exact opinions on everything

do not expect or demand me to expend the energy i'm having to use to keep myself going in order to do piecemeal activism or whatever. you will get blocked. if you're particular about this then go away. i have OCD and don't appreciate being guilt tripped about reblogging this or that post.

im a freak. a freak. shakes you. im a Freak. if it's illegal, immoral, or simply outright depraved IRL, i sip on it like a fine wine in fiction. eat it like coffee ice cream. like hummus. u get the idea. if you hate it i eat it for breakfast. don't like that? there's the door!

finally if you're one of my three ex-friends (you know who you are): if you're willing to genuinely apologize to me, i'm willing to genuinely apologize to you. if you're not willing/don't think you need to apologize, or aren't gonna apologize unless i apologize first, get lost

[sysmedsaresexist]

I have an admission to make

I am, essentially, endo neutral to pro endo (anti misinformation, etc) at this point

(I will continue to operate as 🌟 SYSCOURSE ENRAGED 🌟, don't worry, because endos do still say the weirdest shit, but singlets say even weirder shit)

I did my best to learn what the hell everyone was talking about, what they were experiencing, my content and methods have changed, my blog has changed, I've changed

I came to my own conclusions and understandings, and I still have my thoughts and opinions, but at this point, I get it, and okay, whatever, but if people could stop comparing that to DID, that'd be great

NOW @ pro/endos

The people who helped me explore and learn were not people like Sophie

Everytime I take a step forward, Sophie sends me ten steps back into being completely anti endo

This is a person that does NOT have your best interests at heart, and what she shows and says is that it doesn't matter if an anti endo can learn, they still can't be trusted or ever really change

So why should I? Why should anyone?

The person who most represents your community on tumblr literally makes people more anti endo

Her content and goals are only for people that are already staunchly pro endo, because her content doesn't actually hold up to scrutiny, and isn't actually helping anyone move forward-- anti endos can't be in that community because we won't just blindly follow and believe her, what she says won't actually hold up to anyone that has ANY experience with the other side

So it's not about changing minds or growing, it's about keeping a tight hold on the community she has, and she'll do and say anything in order to keep that hold

You know what is a rumour?

That anti endos are a hate group

We're just people that are severely traumatized and hurt, and we are upset by the comparison of our disorder to endogenic plurality-- by the constant implication that we're just "broken plurals", and by the denial of the scientific research into our disorder, which by your own admissions, you don't have, so why attack it?

We are people, too

We are deserving of kindness, understanding and patience as much as the next person

No, Sophie had nothing to do with my growth

Instead, the people who helped me are the ones that you've all turned your backs on because of Sophie, the people that she has bullied and driven into hiding and to mental breaks, the people that you've all decided aren't "pro" enough for your liking because they decided to talk to me like a person and have actual conversations with me about different topics

I am in a server with several of these people, pro/endogenics and DID alike, all looking to actually learn

Pick your fucking fighters better, because Sophie is only sending you guys back in progress

Thank you to everyone else who actually cared enough to put the effort in, to all my friends that have grown alongside me, to all my followers that have supported me through this journey

I genuinely hope other people can grow one day and see this fucking train wreck for what it is

[circular-bircular]

the science post reminds me of the ways my system first presented itself visibly!

we used to be in a past lives/kin space and got *really* into it, even though we aren't religious. it was our brain trying to make sense of the fact that we were mostly developing fictives, and it offered a way for us to develop without the dissociation stressors of realizing there's *other people*. just tricked ourselves into thinking we had "past life shifts". then had a big denial phase and trashed it and the dissociation barriers got really, really bad for a very long time.

I think there's something to these spaces/belief systems that can help developing systems. but there's also that danger in falling out of them, because it set us back a *ton* for even realizing we had DID. beliefs that don't make sense and don't have to are nice until they're not anymore. I wish we could still do that, but I'm starting to a little with little things - like tarot. (that tarot post made my brain do a good old Neuron Activation, lol.) don't think there's anything magical about it, but my deck is. weirdly accurate. like almost disturbingly so.

letting your brain do its brain things is extremely hard.

(Sorry for the long wait on this post)

I'm not positive which science post this is referencing, but lord knows I have seen a LOT of systems mention they started out in kin spaces. Which, makes a lot of sense.

I think there's just... so much value, being able to look at an experience and go, "There is the potential for good and bad things from this," particularly when systemhood is so different for everyone who experiences it. For me, kin spaces would absolutely have fucked me up, even though I have very few introjects -- but I also know that, for others, maybe those spaces are perfect.

It's the same thing about the various communities -- pro-endo, anti-endo, inclusive, exclusive, etc -- they all have pros and cons. They're all good and bad in their own right.

I think it boils down to, all spaces are neutral. You get what you get from them.

And yeah... Brain things are fucking difficult. Kudos to you for working through shit <3

[undeadfvckgirl-base]

I don't really have specific recommendations but I highly encourage looking into more neutral and slightly pro servers as anti servers tend to be wildly pro fake claiming and annoyingly anti misinformation. anti misinformation is good but antis tend to turn it into fake claiming and don't really accept "odd systems" ive been in a few anti servers but I've also been in a lot of shit pro servers I do recommend one server that a lot of my friends like and it's a server I can't even link called Another Way, Our Own (AWOO) I personally don't talk in there but they are pro endo anti misinformation and is the least toxic I've been in. but only problems I've had with pro endo servers before is ones that gave me shit for not remembering every source on their blacklist because I'm sorry I'm not censoring dogs or my own identity (yes I've been told to do that) because it makes someone uncomfortable and also pro endo servers in my experience have 90% admins who are like 16 and tend to be really bad at their job. I recommend smaller servers on the pro/neutral side but I also recommend just system friendly severs with themes. one of our headmates LOVED this mandela catalogue system friendly server because it never had a problem with discourse regarding systems with we hate a lot. themed servers with just system friendly neutral/pro are like heaven go us but these are our personal experiences and recommendations obviously you don't have to take any of them but I hope you find a server yoy enjoy I might shoot you a discord frq myself actually I own any servers anymore but if I ever do ill keep you in mind

hi, i wanted to ask if anyone has system discord server recommendations, whether it's yours or someone else's.

we're trying to make more friends, and are usually active on discord/find it easier to talk there. we are endo neutral so, we don't really care the server's stance on that, but would prefer spaces that don't talk about or involve themselves in that kind of discourse a huge amount, if possible.

thank you :') --skye

(or if anyone just wants to add us our discord is k9pestilence)

[circular-bircular]

how could someone, who is endogenic/mixed origins… be neutral on their own existence? like, when it comes down to it, pro/anti endo does often mean "do you believe systemhood that endogenic systems are experiencing is true systemhood".

whether or not they're experiencing "something" doesn't matter in the "do you believe endo systems are systems" debate, and many anti endos say stuff like "oh endos are experiencing something, but its not true systemhood/plurality like did/osdd is, and should NEVER be seen as similar" which... is something i firmly disagree with. how could endogenic systems look at that and go 'yeah im neutral on this topic'?

not saying that they don't, or no one that's called themselves endogenic has been neutral or even anti-endo themselves, i'm just quite confused at what you mean by you've met these endos. what are they like. what is "neutrality" in their/your eyes? what do you define as pro/anti? how different are we defining these words?

We are defining these words absolutely different, and that's been the shit of this syscourse for sooo long.

Anti-endo so rarely means not believing in endogenic plurality anymore, pro-endo so rarely means believing in endogenic plurality now, and neutrality is an entire spectrum. Like, let me describe to you a syscourse stance I'm seeing more and more lately:

"I believe in endogenic systems, though I'm not sure about the usage of the term system -- I'm still researching that. I disagree with using the term tulpa, but willogenics are awesome!"

Is this a CDD system or an endogenic system speaking?

Neither -- it's a hypothetical lol -- but the only difference between a neutral CDD system and a neutral Endo system nowadays is if they say "I believe in endo systems" or say "I am an endo system."

Neutrality has always encompassed many ideas under its umbrella, usually with only one force uniting all who use it: they don't feel they fit into the anti/pro binary. I started using unaligned because I wasn't anti enough to be anti-endo, but wasn't pro enough to be pro-endo.

The endogenic systems I've known who are neutral/unaligned typically are neutral about how the community treats others. They don't want to be associated with the pro-endo community, because so much of the pro-endo community (in their personal experiences) is vocally anti-CDD and spreads horrific misinformation.

So, to summarize: neutral endos aren't going "yeah im neutral on the topic of if I exist." They're usually going "God can they PLEASE stop saying that CDDs aren't trauma based?!"

[sophieinwonderland]

One of the worst takes I saw over the whole discourse on the word "endogenic" being offensive was suggesting one way the word is harmful is because some anti-endos refer to pro-endo systems as "endos."

(This is old news but this post was sitting in my drafts forever, so... 🤷‍♀️)

Like, I'm not saying that this take is wrong. We definitely do need to have a conversation about how anti-endos have a history of invalidating trauma by lumping in all pro-endogenic systems with endogenic systems. (Again, see the people spreading the rumor Aimkid is endogenic.)

But it does come off as a little tone deaf when the system who started the rumor about the word endogenic being harmful is one that has a history of doing exactly this. Whether it's tagging endogenic supporters in the "#shit endos say" tag or spreading the lie that the DID Wikipedia article was being edited by endogenic systems when it turns out to be someone who isn't pro-endo, or branding mixed origins and quoigenic systems as endos.

I know these bad arguments had zero coordination, but it feels like a conspiracy. One anti-endo tells everyone "endogenic is used bad because it's been used to fakeclaim DID systems," then they proceed to call DID systems endos. Then a "neutral" friend comes along to support their misinformation and gets to say "and it's still happening, look at what these anti-endos are doing."

Again, I don't think they actually coordinated it that way. I'm choosing to give the benefit of the doubt and believe that zero thought was put into that post at all.

But it's still super victim blamey.

[circular-bircular]

Probs the last post for tonight, but I just want to say:

If your first reaction to someone opening up to you about the harassment they have personally faced is "harassment is bad, but you need to look at yourself in some of this" - then you are fucked up imo.

Nobody should be blamed for the harassment they've faced, especially when the harassment they're facing is because they're being called a label that they do not identify as and have active trauma about.