#📬 syscourse replies encouraged

[syscourse-confessions]

📬 ug I have no patience for sysmeds. I think they are the footsoldiers for fascism and are working for stigmatization and hatred of everyone who doesn't conform to their idea of what a system should be

📬- Syscourse replies encouraged

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[syscourse-confessions]

(syscourse replies encouraged emoji here)

i dont understand anti-endos. a lot of their arguments include the fact that OSDDID are trauma based disorders, but endos are not claiming to have OSDDID? they simply have the experience of being plural.

it usually boils down to “my experience is different because of trauma and your experience cannot be similar in any form without trauma as well” which ignores the fact that people experience the world and themselves in many different and complex ways.

i also find that many anti endos just. wont believe that someone can have a life experience that is different than others. why is it so hard to believe that someone could just.. be a system? without trauma?

anyways, i’ve started identifying as “fuck you”-genic because of all the anti endos that follow me for being traumagenic

📬- Syscourse replies encouraged

DISCLAIMER: Posts may or may not reflect accurate information.

[syscourse-confessions]

Unpopular opinon that I want to yell/ramble out loud; Both the pro/endo community and anti endo community have genuinely awful people! But the only way to realize this, is, for once; LOOK AROUND. Pro, anti, or endo yourself; You'll only see the worst of the group you hate if that's what you focus on. As an endo neutral (with such varied opinons) myself, i've personally experienced pro/endos and anti endos that have been accepting of me; but also seen how they've interacted with each other. But if I didn't go fucking looking around I might've not seen; Pro/endo anons disrespecting dnis, anti endos disrespecting the endo tags; that's one of the few obvious things. Disinformation and misinfo from pro/endos, anti endos wishing death on pro/endos; although ngl i've also seen a few pro/endos anons do that. And there's so much more, deeper, way deeper, where endos have genuinely hurt anti endos (And I have my respects to who that told their stories) but also a few anti endos trying to reclaim the word "plural" even though it's an umbrella term that includes endos. (I'd link but i'm on anon) Just… don't follow something blindly. Fucking make your own opinons. Research. Look around. Syscourse isn't stupidly simple. It's stupidly complex. 📬 (and 💙 as this turned into a rant)

💙 - Vent 📬- Syscourse replies encouraged

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[syscourse-confessions]

📬

I'm of the opinion that anti endo, pro endo, and endo neutral people could just coexist in peace and like, share resources or talk about the weather, but instead someone will harass someone else because they really have nothing else to do all day

so it's "you are not a real system muh muh!! no knowing about what is wrong with you until you're 69 with 3 kids, 2 part time jobs, and at least 420 major life events that happened this last month that broke your psyche for good so you can't cope anymore and you're ACTUALLY disordered now. also provide your entire trauma and medical history so I can make sure you're not lying" or "well AChKTUALLYh I can appropriate words that are explicitly not for me because my friend who is conveniently whatever I'm talking about said it's okay :) I don't care if you ask not to use it in your presence because it's disrespectful to you. I love crossing boundaries it's a nice hobby to have I can function well with other people"

I've seen some shit being in pro endo spaces that discourages me from talking about my disorder in the first place, despite being pro/neutral myself (it's nuanced)

when I'm these spaces I try to talk about anything but my polyfrag DID, because I'm either not taken seriously, or someone will find some excuse to invalidate my experiences and make things more confusing by using terms I've explicitly said not to use if you didn't have these experiences, such as polyfrag (it's not just a big system!!! jesus christ!!!)

meanwhile, anti endos also have hurt me, by indirectly hating on undiagnosed systems while masking it as being against systems who are too covert for their liking or "making symptoms up" which are often just signs of being polyfrag really

I know it's hard to hear it but disorders actually have different manifestations in different people, and my DID is only covert online because I let it

every space has its problems and we could just come to an agreement that plurality is plurality, traumagenic and endogenic plurality are inherently different, while also coming to an agreement that some terms are exclusive to traumagenic systems and some subsets of traumagenic systems, and that there are better hobbies than harassment. you know. peace and love on planet earth and all that, your syscourse stance doesn't necessarily mean you HAVE to be a fucking asshole

or if you can't stop being an asshat regardless of where you stand, you can always talk about something else. crazy weather out there these last few 40 years innit

📬- Syscourse replies encouraged

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[syscourse-confessions]

📬 replies encouraged

Ive written longer explanations of this in other places, but i think its disrespectful and invasive to tell me that i must have *secret trauma*~~~ and thats why im plural. 1. Disrespectful to the (non-abusive) adults in my childhood, insisting that my loved ones must secretly be bad people. 2. Disrespectful to me that you (random stranger) decide you must know more about my life/identity than I do, that the people i care about are hurting me and i can't be trusted to know that for myself, so others must make decisions about my life "for your own good" 3. Just not your place. Maybe if i really did have the secret trauma i wouldn't be in a safe place to process it and you trying to force me to all so that i can be a "good plural" would just hurt me more. Maybe its weird to speculate about a strangers trauma, you know? Im tired and not explaining this great but i just hate when people do this. It makes me feel icky.

📬- Syscourse replies encouraged

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[syscourse-confessions]

as someone who spent YEARS under the impression that i had CPTSD before finding out i actually had DID instead, online system communities make me feel like i stepped into an alternate dimension. the shit that people will give the time of day here makes me wish that i never found out that i had DID and just stayed in complex trauma communities. i feel like i went from being an ancient philosopher having deep discussions with my countrymen to trying and failing teach a toddler their ABCs because they keep having throwing tantrums when i tell them that "J" isn't the last letter of the alphabet

[mailbox emote idk i'm on desktop]

📬- Syscourse replies encouraged

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[syscourse-confessions]

it's just awful how DNIs get treated like the one who has the DNI wants the people on there to die a horrible death. DNIs can also be used to just... not wanting to interact with certain things.

while a LOT of people who have "endos DNI" "sysmeds DNI" or something like this actually don't like those groups (which is, valid as a personal opinion, as long as it's respectful and doesn't lead to harassment/bullying/stalking), there are also people who just don't want to see those things for themselves but are fine if others want to. like I'd rather not have a die-hard Harry Potter fan in the room with me doesn't mean I want all HP fans to die.

there is NUANCE in things I know it's hard to challenge the black-white thinking the Internet imposes but it's really like this most of the time. just because I don't want to see it doesn't mean I will try to have it eradicated from the earth

📬

📬- Syscourse replies encouraged

DISCLAIMER: Posts may or may not reflect accurate information. More info here: https://www.tumblr.com/syscourse-confessions/728819621058232320/disclaimer-treat-posts-here-like-you-would-any

[syscourse-confessions]

Maybe hot take.

We think proendos and antiendos should interact with each other. Actually get to know the other person you're having syscourse with. Understand their views before just immediately saying "antiendos DNI" OR "proendos DNI". Get to know them before hating each other right off the back

We wanna see them interact and just be peaceful.

If the system has trauma or is triggered by the other group then that's one thing to tell them to DNI. But if they just hate them for no good reason besides "other group is bad", then I think they should give them a chance.

-neutralendo system

OH OH I just sent the ask about pro and antis interacting with each other. I would like it to be tagged with 📬

📬- Syscourse replies encouraged

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[syscourse-confessions]

(I hope this kind of ask is allowed) 📬 Replies really encourged. If anyone who thinks that traumagenics and endogenics shouldn't be under the umbrella term or share spaces, why is that?

📬- Syscourse replies encouraged

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[syscourse-confessions]

i see a lot of debate sometimes on whether alters can call themselves trans if the alters gender is the same as the bodies agab and i have. so many mixed feelings. agabs in general i think are sucky it's just a doctor looking at your crotch as a baby and going "yep looks like the boy ones" or "yep looks like the girl ones" and if it's different they just go with whatevers closest but that's an entire side rant for another day lmao anyway. it's such a stupid argument dude my take on it is just identify how you want but don't claim experiences you don't have (ie. transfem alters in a dyadic afab body don't speak over amab and/or intersex transfeminine people) and stay out of those spaces. 99% percent of discourse can be boiled down to "you can do what you want forever just don't be a DICK about it and know your place"

(i am saying this as an intersex and transfeminine pwDID, if it matters to anybody lol) 📬 – my personal opinions are not the end-all and be-all of this discussion!! i would love to hear input from other trans pwDID/OSDD-1/etc

📬- Syscourse replies encouraged

DISCLAIMER: Posts may or may not reflect accurate information. More info here: https://www.tumblr.com/syscourse-confessions/728819621058232320/disclaimer-treat-posts-here-like-you-would-any

[syscourse-confessions]

I've got a problem. I really like to read posts with anti-endos and a few endos dni even though, I myself, am kinda endo origins. I've gotten slightly obsessed with it. It's just that… they do really make sense sometimes. And I'm also against misinfo… I guess I want to know why they hate us few who's got sense so bad. Those few who aren't pro-endo or toxic positivity groups. Those… I mean, I know what i'm experiencing isn't DID or OSDD, right? I don't wanna deliberately fake it, I'm not a fucking asshole; so I use a different term for plurality to not be a dick; then afterwards, shit, hey! Realization hits that this *term* is actually related to *that* term which has sooooooooooo much fUcking discourse around it. Fuck. How else am I gonna explain this experience? That suddenly, out of nowhere, after the age limit for diagnostic criteria; This character came into my life And we learned from each other; became buds, and he now helps me function whenever I need it? What word do you want me to describe that experience to? Cause I WANT to talk about it, just like you want to talk about YOUR experiences. I'm not trying to be dangerous at all. I don't wanna be anything that you've experienced. I'm just... trying to... well, be. Like you. Heck, if push comes to shove and i've got some dissociative disorder and my headmate merely is spiritual originated in a fucked up situation (Even though I don't remember having harsh trauma like yours; which, your trauma is so valid, slay-) then... Why keep us out of having a shared space with you? You can also have a space to yourselves, I don't get those endos wanting to infiltrate yours- But I want to communicate with you; so we can understand each other. ...fuck. 💙📬 (PS: Yes, this is also partly a ramble. I am diagnosed with a certain neurological and developmental disorder we all know about; so this is just something I do sometimes.)

💙 - Vent 📬- Syscourse replies encouraged

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[syscourse-confessions]

i once ran into a collective who was pro-endo but against intentionally formed systems. YOU READ THAT RIGHT.

so thats:

supportive of traumagenic systems

supportive of spontaneous systems

supportive of systems who were there since the beginning

supportive of agenic systems

but.. intentionally formed was a nono?? how??

(this wasn't just someone complaining about tulpa terminology by the way, it was ANY intentionally formed systems. regardless of the words they used for themselves.)

can someone please explain how this viewpoint makes any sense whatsoever

(previous is syscourse replies encouraged by the way!!)

📬- Syscourse replies encouraged

DISCLAIMER: Posts may or may not reflect accurate information. More info here: https://www.tumblr.com/syscourse-confessions/728819621058232320/disclaimer-treat-posts-here-like-you-would-any

[syscourse-confessions]

I want to talk about being pro-endo. It's a little venty, but syscourse replies are encouraged, because I wish more people talked about this shit.

In my time as a pro-endo, I have been encouraged to:

Send hate anons to big anti-endos

Tell people they were endogenic instead of traumagenic because that would get more people on our side

Be wary of anyone who has DID (as a DID system myself)

Never ever reblog anything from anyone who wasn't part of the pro-endo community explicitly. Usually I got asks in my inbox, sometimes with harassment in them, if I reblogged a point from someone "bad". If the reblog was from a pro-endo that wasn't "pro-endo enough," I'd get asks about it. It didn't matter what the post said -- reblogging a post about how TERFs are bad from an unaligned system would be enough to get people up my ass.

Split new alters

Ship my alters

Forcibly try to give myself introjects because not having any was "weird"

Systemhop

Take drugs to "enhance my experience with my headmates"

Ignore any and all trauma because I'm just an endogenic system who got yelled at, that's not trauma

I did a lot of these. It's not something I'm proud of. I am still pro-endo, I still believe endogenic systems exist, and I think anti-endos who don't are stupidly close minded. But I also think that I'm sitting here on an anonymous confessions blog, too scared shitless to actually talk about any of this out loud, because I've seen how pro-endos get harassed for not being "pro-endo" enough. I was one of those harassers.

The pro-endo community has a serious problem. They aren't the good guys. There aren't good guys in this debate. There's just good people and assholes, and the pro-endo communities problem is that they encourage this behavior a lot. Labeling anyone who disagrees with them as a sysmed, because that means they're Bad and it's okay to be bad to Bad people, to Bigots. Labeling anti-endos as a hate group to dehumanize them, to other them. Its FUCKED.

I'm not sure how to fix it. I'm just grateful to be able to say some of this here.

📬- Syscourse replies encouraged

.

[syscourse-confessions]

Syscourse as a whole has just led to more plurals feeling invalidated and gatekeeping experiences. Not to mention the amount of racism prevalent in a lot of syscourse.

📬 - I want to see others takes on this opinion.

📬- Syscourse replies encouraged

[syscourse-confessions]

I'm part of a transmasc system, and I wish everyone doing syscourse would stop and take a good, hard look at themselves to see if they're perpetuating transandrophobia. I personally am endo-neutral (well, I have a lot of thoughts about various syscourse issues, but to make it simple, I'm somewhere on the fence) and I see this from both anti endos and pro endos. So I just thought I'd drop in and make a list of some things that everyone should keep in mind, regardless of your stance on syscourse:

Stop calling people sysmeds. While I understand the harm that anti-endos can cause, being anti-endo is not at all comparable to a medical view of trans people considering the history behind the transmedicalist movement. Transmedicalism is a movement that has some of its roots in autohomoeroticism theory, something that dehumanizes GNC and gay trans men with the end goal of making it appear like we do not exist. Being anti-endo is not and will never be the same in any way to being transmed.

No more calling people "traumascum." Not only does the above point apply, but also, it's incredibly insulting to people with trauma, and it's never okay to attack someone for their trauma even if they are the worst person in the world.

No, having a transmasc alter as an AMAB person (or as a cis woman/nontransmasc AFAB) will never be the same as actually being transmasc. I'm all for transmasc alters in nontransmasc systems speaking about their own experiences, but please be mindful not to invade spaces where you're not welcome or talk over people. Every transmasc space will have different rules surrounding alters in nontransmasc systems, so just ask.

Anti-endos specifically, no more infantilizing transmasc endogenic systems. Just because you disagree with them on this one issue does not mean that you should be transandrophobic to them. Your traumagenic transmasc friends hear you when you make fun of one of us.

Remember, calling out transandrophobia shouldn't be a "gotcha" to win your syscourse argument. Calling out transandrophobia should be an end goal in itself, not something you use as a means to further your own agenda. Supporting transmascs means supporting us even when it's not convenient to you. Be willing to call this shit out from people you agree with on syscourse.

Think twice before you call a system (or anyone, really) out for having done something "problematic" (I'm thinking in regards to shipping and stuff like that). I am begging people to understand how trans men are targeted unfairly by these types of witch-hunts regularly, especially when we're gay, and please please please don't contribute to this issue. If you see something like this happen to someone, my best advice for how you can help the victim is by becoming friends with them and being supportive. This can help especially if some of the system's friends stopped supporting them after the witch-hunt.

Stop using "AFAB system" as a synonym for "system whose body presents femininely." You are excluding transfems, who have very similar experiences to AFAB people who present as women or feminine, and you are leaving transmasc experiences out as a side note.

That should be it for now! I'll return later if I think of anything else. I'm on anon so that nobody sends me harassment over this.

📬.

📬- Syscourse replies encouraged

[syscourse-confessions]

I am so tired of law-abiding fools.

They claim that you can't tell someone's being a smartass based on vibes alone, they might actually be trying to make a real argument! They might really be telling the truth, and without concrete proof you can't say otherwise!

Burden of proof is on the guy wearing the smirk, I'm not sorry

Let me explain. Someone in here recently disavowed the concept of bad-faith arguments, specifically the thought that you might be able to tell whether they're making one without knowing them and being inside their head.

Throwback to several years ago, when I ran up against someone telling me they don't think my disorder is real. I'm like. I'm not dealing with this. They want to paint me as crazy so that nobody takes my criticism seriously, everybody will eat it up because the change I want is inconvenient, and the staff will obviously be like :thumbsup: all the while being like. "You just got mad, deal with it B)" (this was about an IEP in school btw, in case you're curious.)

Bad-faith arguments have an unscholarly purpose. To make you just give up because arguing with them is exhausting. And it works because people take them seriously, bro. People take mister "I dont trust the medicine people" seriously. IDK what the anon was specifically talking about, but the concept of bad-faith arguments should be taken seriously. It's a valid observation to make of somebody else's argument, and they can make counter points to your observation if they want. If the guy was like, I dunno anything about it! Once I pointed out the bad-faithness, I could educate him and he could learn. But that isn't what happened. It's just emotional denial with zero curiosity. "No!! Now listen to me instead of ignoring me!!" they say. And then you listen, and that's when they win. (in this instance I just got accomodations for symptoms of general ptsd, which wasn't enough so I dropped out)

When people with shitty ideas pretend to be good-willed, we feel obligated to give them a platform as a free-thinking, curious, trusting society. Daily IRL life (offline) depends on trusting people to be decent. When people with shitty ideas present themselves as Just Asking Questions And Being Curious Except When You Try To Educate Me I Yell At You, the audience (at BEST) reacts with "oh well I guess since this person who Knows about this is arguing with him, I guess he's worth arguing with! I guess this topic is still up for debate!" And you can SEE the issue with that.

Support people who just don't take obvious shit. Support people who call out some Bullshit, pls. Pretending you have to treat everyone as equally unmalicious is dangerous, and that's coming from a trans guy who was accused of mail tampering at age 11. Be less trusting of OBVIOUS bs, and if someone's like "this is an obvious bad-faith argument" don't go "you don't know that! what if they're well-meaning? You can't see in their head!" it's literally All these types of people want. I don't care what it's about. This happens with every single issue. Hotdogs a sandwich. This is pedantics. We're talking about food safety cause your restaurant is breaking the food safety guidelines, we aren't going to discuss whether a hotdog counts as a sandwich. That type of shit. It's everywhere. "I want a lwayer, dog" "Oh but he might've meant he wanted a dog who was a lawyer! I didn't know he was calling Me dog!" you know. Hope this isn't too harsh, I don't hold any bad feelings towards this one anon, I just really hate seeing actual angels in my life fall into the trap of trusting professional bullshitters :/ Replies encouraged, because obviously since this is a reply to someone I'd be an ass to not welcome a response LOL

📬- Syscourse replies encouraged