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what-aboutno · 10 days ago

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An analysis on c!Owen and his behaviour throughout the Outsiders SMP series!

Some disclaimers before I go into this. There will be spoilers up ahead! I would like to warn anyone reading that this post will mention some blacklisted members from the smp because their characters play a role in showing us about cOwen.

For convenience, all the members mentioned are the characters, not the actual ccs themself. Some of this might seem all over the place, but when the characters learn random parts of themselves at different points it's bound to happen.

Owen has changed a lot as the series has progressed and many find his personality to have changed entirely towards the end, however, this isn’t really the case. When we go over his character, we can see his core values have stuck with him throughout the series, so in this post, I will go over how exactly he has changed over time and his character in general.

To make it easier, I’m gonna split it into 3 parts. Early maze days, the introduction of clearing 2, and post memories.

During the early maze days Owen establishes his character very early on. Right from the beginning, Owen arrives with the demon Rasbi. They are notably one of the three pairs that come up, with most coming up the elevator alone. The first time we see him, Owen immediately takes up a role as a protector, asking if Rasbi knows how to fight in case there is danger up ahead.

In this first section, we can also see that he acts a lot more childish and naive. He’s very emotional and easily upset by his past. He can be seen jumping on rocks with Mohwee and the others and crying on his first night over his loss of memories. The overwhelmingness of the clearing gets to him. This isn’t to say he is some weak, stupid or soft character though.

Owen may be naive in believing things should be played in certain ways according to his rules but there are many instances where we can see he’s not stupid. First episode he can immediately recognise what knife Oeca is holding “Hey that’s a throwing knife right? No that’s a dagger”

After getting more settled in the maze he asks about the maze’s agriculture, he mentions everyone is unarmed despite fearing the dangers in the maze. He starts asking about protection, armour, shields and notably, “So this place is safe on the inside? It's safe to walk at night?” He’s already worried for everyone’s safety here, he knows the maze is dangerous so is there anywhere that’s safe?

Very early on his past also becomes a very important aspect of his personality. He is probably one of the first to remember anything significant about his past. By episode 2 he is getting flashbacks about how to make a bow. But he makes a javelin first, noting “I think I was a hunter. No, I was an archer. I was a hunter. I was a soldier? I was good at this.” He then proceeds to aim the javelin at Oeca’s name, because at this point he can’t fully trust Ocea. He is very quick to violence, although he doesn't want Oeca dead, he certainly can’t trust in him.

Another important note is that Mohwee is one of the people in the clearing he respected and saw as someone with the ability to act. Which is why we get this interaction where Mohwee calls out “Owen.” and Owen replies with “yes sir”. His past even without his memories is important and ingrained enough he still acts like this, and this only continues as we go through this section.

The first time they go in the maze as a group is when Apo arrives. This is a very important moment for Owen because their first trip in the maze solidifies his personality throughout this section and maybe even the series. Oeca is shot because Mohwee was careless and brought anyone in. When the group comes back, Owen asks Graecie, “How many entrances are there to this maze?” After finding out this is the only one that opens, he refuses to let anyone get hurt again and starts blocking it off.

Trust and promises are very important to Owen here too because it's one of the key reasons he blocks off the entrance. It’s not just Oeca getting hurt, it’s the fact he promised Graecie he wouldn't go in. “I broke my promise.” He also takes Apo’s word very seriously in the mine when he tells Owen he didn’t pull the lever. Also because of this he only trusts himself to go in the maze.

When the entrance is blocked off Owen is quick to violence and threatens people if they try to get past him. After finding the old battle axe he starts using it to threaten and intimidate people. “Anyone who goes past this (the gate) i will attack”

“Anyone else that will, I will just cut down” are some of the things he says. He punches Mohwee for trying to get past him. When Oeca comes back after Mohwee’s disappearance, Owen follows him with that battle axe trying to talk.

Owen then goes on to say “I’m not looking for violence” and “I'm not collecting weapons this was instinctual (points at bow)” he doesn't want people to think he’s dangerous and he knows people are scared of him.

Even if he seems aggressive he still wants to protect others. Owen goes back in the maze to look for Mohwee after he randomly disappears on their way back. “My job is to protect people and I will do that to the best of my abilities. At every possible stage”

When Mohwee disappears Owen takes a massive risk to stay in the maze overnight to see if the gates would open. “The only thing I remember about my life Graecie, is that I was raised to protect people. That's all I remember. And I know it was dumb and stupid to go in the maze but if it got us a step closer to finding Mohwee. I was willing to make that risk”

So we’ve established that Owen cares about the people in the clearing even if he doesn't trust all of them, he wants to protect them and he will do it no matter what. It's the purpose he has given himself in order to be useful.

He knows it doesn’t work how he wants it to. People are scared and wary of Owen’s protection. There are multiple instances where he tells his voices, “They don’t get it,” because he knows people don’t trust his methods. His method of control is disliked by a lot of people.

Ori is one of the main characters to go against Owen. Owen hates this because not only does it risk the safety of others but it goes against his main purpose he gave himself. He takes this job very seriously. So when Ori goes in the maze it’s no wonder Owen becomes very violent.

“Ori I'm seriously sorry I will break your legs and I'm very close to it. Are you gonna make me. “

He doesn’t see himself to be super aggressive though “People think I'm being really aggressive when I talk like ‘oh hey if you come near me I'm gonna break your legs’ but I'm saying it in the most friendly way I can, you understand that right? I'm not trying to be aggressive with that”

“I'm saying like if you do step in here I will have to break your legs. In like a very gentle and I'm very sorry I hate to inconvenience you but I do have to break your legs.”

When Ori sneaks into the maze, Owen talks a lot about his purpose. Things like “Don't, I'll fail them. They'll kill me. My entire purpose here is to stay by this door and stop you from coming in.”

Owen hates to know he is failing the purpose he has given to himself “When I discovered I was a soldier that's what I set myself to (protecting others) but what do I have to show for myself? I have tried my hardest to protect these people. And get they look at me and tell me I'm a tyrant” “you're not in control, who are you to say what happens?”

He would do anything, even if it meant sacrificing himself. As shown before when Mohwee disappears but also as he protects the gate after the second lever gets pulled he says “I'm going to protect them if I die in the process so be it”

Another note before this section ends is that it’s not just Ori who opposes Owen. Sillvia also talks about Owen’s method of leadership.

Sillvia about Owen: Owen I think you would be great. If not for the fact that you have a militaristic mindset. I don't want to see your leadership spiral into a place where Apo wants. Owen I fear you and I want you to know that. I actually fear you and I don't say that about many people. And ruling should not be through fear. You are a terrifying individual and to see you be in a position of power would be a slope we cannot afford or gamble slipping down. We've seen you tussle with Ori. I know you're a strong individual. You could lead us quite well but it's the risk that comes with your leadership that I am not willing to risk.

The perception Owen has of himself differs from how he comes off. It becomes more of an issue later but we can already see this happen.

So as clearing 2 is introduced this is what we know about Owen. He was a soldier once, he wanted to protect people in the clearing even if it meant sacrificing himself. He’s nice to others but his methods are still aggressive and violent, ready to hold a weapon to someone if needed and Owen cares a lot about trust.

With the introduction of clearing 2 we can see how Owen changes and develops. He’s very cautious of clearing 2 members because for all he knows they could have led the creature that destroyed half their clearing in on purpose.

Owen also faces betrayal from Apo. We know trust is something Owen values a lot. It’s mentioned in the early days, and it’s a major part of why he feels so strongly about Apo lying. During the scene where Owen faces Apo after finding he pulled the lever that killed the second clearing, his main issue with Apo isn’t the fact that he killed people. It was the fact he lied to him.

“You lied to me. Why did you do it? No no no I don't care about the lever. Apo why did you lie to me? You're my friend I trusted you. I stayed there. I held your back when oeca said it was you. I put my name on the line. Because we stood together in the mine and I asked you to swear to my face that you didn't do it. And you lied to me. Im meant to be your friend and you lied.”

You can also see what Owen values in a person when they discuss Apo’s punishment and Owen says there's 3 main things he did

- went into maze without group consent

- pulled the lever

- he lied

Owen only adds on at the end that he left Squidney.

With all of this too we see Owen for the first time back away from the job he gave himself. He backs away from leadership, we start to see how tired Owen is from the stress of it all. His reasoning has to do with his trust being broken.

“What's the point they're all liars. This entire place is filled with filthy liars. Every single person. All I've ever done is tried to protect them”

“Forget it. I'm done. I'm don't helping people. No I'm not villain, I'm not a hero I'm nothing.

From now on there is no leader of the maze. They put me in charge. My word means nothing to them I'm done.”

“How am I meant to protect them when I try and stop them with physical force im made out to be some kind of monster. When I try to reason with them I'm made out to be soft.”

Owen being viewed as soft has always been something he’s aware of. People tend to think because he’s kind that they can do whatever they want (sneak into the maze etc) and this perception Owen is a soft person develops. Even if he’s emotional and kind we’ve seen before in early maze days he is not soft.

Owen tries to ignore all his problems but with it he grows more aggressive than before. His tone changes when he speaks about other people to his voices.

“To visit him would be to acknowledge he exists. And right now the last thing I want to do is consider the fact that this thing lives and breathes and eats and sleeps under my feet. The sooner he wastes away and fades into nothingness the better. I don't see a life going forward with him in it” - Owen about Apo

“The more I look around these stupid 4 walls the more I'm reminded that he that. That I trusted him.”

"he's everywhere. It's like a disease. Like it festers. The outside looks fine and you look just below the surface and it's rotting vile and it's him”

Apo: Just give me a chance.

Owen: why should I? So you can have another tick to the long list of times Owen has naively believed there is some good in the people that infests this clearing? Oeca, mohwee, Bekyamon, Magic, Graecie, Ori, you, liars. All of you.

I’m not just putting quotes here just for you to see oh trust is important! But more so for you to see that Owen changes when his trust has been broken or when he sees someone as a threat. Some of these things sound very similar to what Owen would say when he gets his memories back. Because to Owen trust and protection are 2 very important values. When that is broken he can’t be certain someone isn’t a threat.

With this change Owen does become more aware he isn’t the most approachable person due to his methods. I do want to bring up this quote first though

"Can I kill someone? Ive been thinking about this recently I say I'm a soldier. But I've never actually killed anyone. All my life in these 4 walls I've spoken about security and fighting and I can't remember a time I've actually taken someone's life. What if I have to. What if it comes to that I don't think I could stomach it either. I doesn't feel like me. It's not me it's not who I am. No I can't. I'll only attack this person if they do something first. And even then I'll just aim to incapacitate" - Owen about Ash

This is an interesting quote from Owen knowing his later actions but it’s not that out of character. If we look at every flashback he’s had so far we can see the life of a soldier is not one he’s always wanted.

Owen to his dad: What if I'm not ready to be your protector? No It's what you've always wanted! What if I wanted to do something else? What if I don't want to be a soldier what about me when do I get to look out for myself.

However he is always ready to attack if he needs to, if it comes to it he would do anything to protect someone. I think that means to kill even if Owen doesn’t think so at this point.

His notebook btw

Another note about his behavior is that because of how others view him he almost dies from the creature’s venom. Ayngel even said before Owen is more angry. Other people even though it sounds jokingly say Owen gets grumpy when people disrupt him, leading to no one but Soup to check up on him when he gets stung.

When Bek comes back he doesn’t hesitate to do the things he did before. He does what he thinks is right and protects Magic by aiming a javelin at Bek. He says he’s not violent but anytime he feels like he’s in danger he pulls out a weapon. He did it when he was in Soup’s basement, he does it anytime he hears about someone potetially harming Rasbi, and he did it when he heard Oeca attacked Graecie.

Owen in general is a fighter at heart. Even if he says he doesn’t want to kill anyone he is still ready to attack.

Owen: this isn't you Ori. You fight. That's what you do.

Ori: what are you talking about?

Owen: you fight people. When you don't get your way you fight. You and I are the same

At the end of this section, the group decides not to go back in the maze. They had lost Squidney, Oeca, Mohwee, with the presumption that Red, Apo and Graecie were either dead or dying. Owen is tired of it all “Every Time I've tried to protect someone they've ended dead Kyle” he tries to hope but he is so tired. This tiredness also explains some things that happen when he gets his memory back.

So to summarise before looking at Owen when he gets his memories back, this is what we know about Owen. He wants to protect his friends, he believes in trust a lot, he is both seen as more aggressive and angry these days and soft at the same time, he wants to be a good leader but other people don’t listen. Not much has changed since the early maze days, but it’s a more solid character now.

When the reunion comes around Owen in the story has finally had a moment to think about everything that happened between him and Apo. His main regret in the series was how he treated him even if he broke his trust.

Owen loves to contradict himself a lot but it’s a very human trait he has. He has complex feelings about Apo, and Beks and a lot of people. Yet he’ll still offer his protection to them. It’s because of this the ‘sudden’ shift in personality he has becomes very shocking to the audience.

Since right before he sees Apo, Owen is very emotional here. Very similar to how he was in the early maze days. It’s out of his character to hope for something like seeing Apo because he knows it’s very unlikely he’ll see him again. However he gives himself this hope, one more chance.

When Owen regains his memories the tone shift is obvious. He acts less emotional, he seems more mature. But we do need to consider this is someone who just had a lifetime of memories shoved back in his head and his core values are so strong that Owen doesn’t hesitate to act the way he used to.

There’s lots of similarities to Owen here to the one we’ve known. Like his purpose. He sets one for himself immediately after arriving in the clearing. Even as he talks to Apo about his past he talks about his purpose

“I had a purpose once. I was useful, vital, adored. And suddenly everything changed. The world grew tired of blood shed. When all you're good for is violence, when you've been breed into a killing machine, a nation of peace will toss you aside like a spent torch”

There’s an obvious difference here right? The man we’ve watched in the maze who wanted to protect his friends just killed his best friend. This is definitely a different person right? Yes and no. Owen hasn’t changed that much, and I'll explain why after we go through some more things. But it’s important to note that this isn’t a completely new person, this isn’t something that is unexpected when we go through the information we already have about Owen.

“I know what you are, you are everything wrong in the world has to offer. You are the amalgamation of all the gluttony and lust of humans with the evil and cunning of demons. You stand as a testament to everything vile. You are a disease on the face of this earth and I am it's curse”

Apo: this isn't you you've changed

Owen: incorrect, this is me. The man you manipulated and lied was nothing more than a puppet driven by the instinct to survive.

Owen wants protection for his friends. He goes to extreme lengths to keep people safe, so when he remembers demons as this evil creature that will hurt people for their own gain he wasn’t going to stand around and do nothing right?

Surprising or not this is very in character for Owen if we look at everything else we have from the series. To him, he is still doing his job, the one he’s done since day 1 in the clearing. Just now the threat isn’t just the maze and the occasional person, it’s demons.

The way Owen became a demon hunter is essential too. He used to live in comfort, and based on past flashbacks he was training to be a soldier even if he didn’t fully enjoy it. His mother was a poet and his father was a general. He had grown up hearing all about how terrible demons are, and he didn’t understand until his village had been burned down.

One negative interaction with demons had put this deep hatred in his heart for them. Before his memories returned he was ready to forgive Apo, he knew he wasn’t as dangerous as he made him out to be. But when the sudden influx of memory comes, he has this past knowledge that Apo is a threat.

Since Apo had hurt Owen before this only adds to it. Remember Owen really values trust. Apo has broken that trust in the past, so everything combined and letting go of the final restriction it’s no wonder he kills Apo.

Despite this ‘massive personality change’ Owen has, when he returns to the clearing he still makes sure Magic is safe. He doesn't tell people about the lava rising so he wouldn’t cause panic. He still cares about these people.

But Owen starts to view all the demons as a threat, every demon in the clearing has done something to suggest they could be dangerous. The reason Owen kills Guts is because they poisoned the food at the feast, which led to Magic being poisoned. He carries out this duty for protection

I think another thing people tend to forget about Owen is that he's been slowly breaking apart trying to fit what others want from him as seen in the last section. And it took a major toll on him. His outburst at Magic is one of the ways shown to us how much stress he’s been under. Perhaps even guilt he’s been feeling.

Magic: if you don't you're just putting everyone danger by not leading us… in there…

Owen: danger? You want to talk about putting others in danger? All of this coming from who exactly? The woman who's clearing burnt down under her leadership? The woman who lied about that previous position of leadership as she lacked the spine to correct her friend when she lied? The woman who was tied up and left for dead by that same friend? The woman who swore to protect a stranger only to them shot down in front of her? What the woman who stood still as her friend was ripped apart beside her? Oh yeah the magnitude of your failures Magic is deafening. Do you hear it? When you fall asleep at night, do you hear the screams of the dead who's blood stain your hands? How do you cope? When you find out be a good friend and let me know would you? Been looking for a way to shut them up.

Owen does try to justify his actions to his voices even if they don’t listen. He knows people here aren’t good. He’s known this since clearing 2 was introduced, but with his memories back he feels like he has to carry on this duty by killing the threat. That’s the only way to keep people in the clearing safe right?

Owen to voices: have you stopped to think why I'm doing this? You seem so attached to these creatures, why? What good have they done? These people aren't good people. None of us good people. We're all in here for a reason. Just because you haven't taken your rose tinted glasses off to see that doesn't mean the rest of us haven't.

Like before he won’t let anything stop him, even if it means hurting a few people. He doesn't hesitate to pull out a weapon when he hears Ayngel might know him. He can’t risk anything ruining his plans because he can’t afford to. He’s so tired. I think at this point anyone that was a major threat to him he would kill.

Ayngel: I feel like I recognise you. You and your face from somewhere

Owen: oh? (Starts to pull out knife from his bag)

Ayngel: I've been having this thought and it's got me thinking (Owen pulls out a knife in case)

Ayngel: actually, honestly forget it. It's all a dream and I'm overthinking

The only exception to his thinking is Rasbi. Rasbi actually hasn’t done anything wrong to him personally. She’s one of the few people that didn’t break his trust but he still kills her. Why?

First off he doesn’t see her as the friend he wanted to protect but instead as something he protected only to kill in the end to fulfil his duty. Her sister is the reason why he ended up in the maze, so even without Rasbi directly harming Owen in any way it’s enough for Owen to kill her. I’m sure any small mistake or detail would have led Owen to killing any demon, because it only proves his thinking.

Owen barely survives after Rasbi attacks him. So as Owen starts planning how to kill Krow he starts going a bit insane. His room is a mess, his mind is a mess and he can barely stand it anymore. We really start to see him fall apart here

Owen: this yolk is a burden is a burden I can't carry for much longer. I'm tired. I want to rest. But I took a pact, I made a promise. A glorious death is his for who his country falls and either I or they thing will have to die before I stop.

Something that’s brought up when discussing the idea of ‘Maze Owen’ is the fact that we can see ‘glimpses’ of him in different interactions. For example when Owen and Krow go out into the maze and Owen spots Puddy he makes sure Puddy doesn’t die by keeping him away. Even if he’s aggressive in the scene the fandom interpretation is the care he has for Puddy as ‘Maze Owen’ slipped through. But It’s not out of character for him to still show care for people after his memories are returned based on everything we’ve seen.

Before ‘killing’ off Krow, Owen does say this “There's no escaping who you are” Which is really interesting since most characters he’s interacted with will tell him in the maze you can escape who you used to be. Owen knows for a fact no matter what he does in life now he will never have anything outside the maze. Because the world doesn’t need him anymore. He kills the demons as his final act of service to the world because he has nothing else to offer.

When Krow finally comes back and Owen gets hit in the head he says to the rest of the group “I was protecting you all.” and “You don't know what they're like! You haven't seen the outside world.”

Looking at his final moments we see that everyone that Owen has cared about doesn’t trust him anymore. They don’t believe his protection was needed. He’s told that he will not get out of this cell. He’s left alone in the silence of the cell. Finally with the time to think. He starts experiencing multiple flashbacks and it makes it hard for him to think.

We’ve seen in the past how Owen deals with multiple flashbacks. It gives him a headache or causes him pain in some cases. He also becomes really emotional afterwards. This follows the same case. Except he starts to realize some things.

Krow: I know those eyes. That glint of desperation for approval but knowing it's never coming. We're more similar than you let yourself believe you and I

(Flash back ‘i was an archer.?’ ‘i was a hunter?’ I was a soldier)

“I was a tool. Used.”

He knows he’s going to die soon and he starts to panic. The most important line he says is

“So what now? This is it!? I deserve to die in battle. I killed them. It was what I. Its just what I was meant to do. I was trained. Should i have? I should have. I should have. I can't think inside my head, it's split in two”

“So what voices? What was I before then huh? Was that me? Is that who people trust? People trust that one. Old Owen. Yes? It wasn't me. That wasn't me” flashback about Apo first coming up

“I can't think. I can't. They trusted him. They trusted him but not me? My head…”

After this he pleads with Magic to let him out. Owen claims “I hurt them, I hurt my friends. Rasbi, Guts. And Apo, Krow I don't know why I did those things” He pleads and cries. And he's desperate

Owen: “No magic it's me please.”

Magic: “You kill people owen”

Owen: “It wasn't me I'm sorry. I just wanted to keep people safe.”

Owen: “Magic please don't go… no… magic. You can't do this.”

Magic: “I can and I am”

I think when we look at these final clips there’s a very important thing happening. Owen is separating himself from the past. He can’t understand why his friends don’t trust him. Even though nothing has changed. To him his eyes have been opened to the dangers of demons and he fulfilled his purpose.

Why does this separation even happen? This is where we move to the final part of this long analysis and look at theories. There’s no way I can say for sure this is right or this is wrong. I can only tell you what I think based on the material already there.

So before I go into this I have to emphasize I am not saying you can't refer to earlier Owen as maze Owen to explain Owen at different periods of his life. I'm saying when we really look at it, maze Owen doesn't exist since they're the same person.

So what am I talking about? The concept of ‘maze’ Owen has been around for a long time. Even ccOwen talks about his character like that. The idea that just because Owen didn’t have his memories that he was some sweet, soft guy that needs to be babied is something that affects a lot on how you view him as a character.

'maze' Owen doesn't actually exist because it's a way that Owen has come up with to justify to himself how he could have cared for demons without shattering his ideals. This is confused with Owen have distinct personalities and missing how he hasn't strayed from his ideals since the start with his idea of protecting everyone.

To separate that period of Owen's life in the maze ignores the fact that the characteristics you see in Owen post reunion are the same from before but taken to the extreme.

He's always been capable of ‘evil’'. It's the same as every other character in the series. We don't separate them like we do with Owen. Every character in the series is inherently morally gray, they do things out of desperation to survive. You can never say someone is 100% good or bad.

Owen’s same mindset of 'I need to protect the people I care about because they're in danger now' carries through. After the reunion in his head demons are no longer part of that group he wants to protect.

The separation of 'maze' and post reunion Owen forgets even in the post memory phase he had the ability to love like 'maze' Owen had. He released Puddy, he started a small farm, he started to relax. It's all part of him.

In his final moments he says a few important things to note. The first being "I was a tool. I was trained. Should I have... I should have." And then right after "I can't think in my head it's split in two"

It seems some take this as 'maze' Owen coming back and fighting with Owen on should he have killed Apo and the others. However rather than 'maze' Owen coming back i think it's this internal conflict he has with himself and his ideals.

Before he says this he's getting flashbacks to the early maze days where he showed kindness to demons. Something he would never let himself do in the past outside the maze. And something he would never do after he remembers it all.

Then he says to the voices "Is that who people trust? Old Owen" while those memories are playing. The voices respond saying they miss that Owen and he replies "Yes? That wasn't me" this is possibly where it further adds to the whole 'maze' Owen is a different person thing.

Rather than facing the fact that his thinking doesn’t make sense anymore he separates himself from those memories. As soon as Owen accepts that demons are not these creatures that betray and kill you at any moment, his life has no purpose.

Owen’s thinking comes from the manipulation and propaganda he's been fed. In his final episode we get these quotes which show just how much his thinking revolves around protection and also showing what years of training did to him.

He understands he was a tool that was used. He's well aware everything he is doing may not have a purpose and yet he still plays this part. He can't break away from that thinking because if he lets himself, Owen has to face the fact that his whole life had no true meaning.

That is a terrifying thing to do. He has been in this environment for so long you can’t just take him out of it.

Going over everything you can access in Owen’s pov, we know that before gaining his memories Owen is a person that cares deeply about his friends, he risks himself to protect them, he won’t hesitate to hold a weapon against someone he sees as a threat. Owen thinks trust is an important value to have, he takes it very seriously. But we also know that not everyone likes Owen and his leadership. He’s seen with a military mindset, people don’t want to upset him and it nearly costs his life.

Now let’s compare that with the Owen we get to know after his memories return. He wants to protect the people he deeply cares about, he risks himself to protect them, he doesn’t hesitate to hold a weapon against someone that he sees as a threat, only now the threat is demons. When we start looking at these differences, yes, Owen when he regains his memories is different, his tone changes, he murders people. But those core values we’ve seen throughout the series stay with him.

It’s one of the reasons why Owen can’t understand why no one in the clearing is on his side. He protected them against the threat they didn't know about. That is his purpose, and that’s what he’s good for. Remember right at the beginning of the series Owen sets his purpose to protect these people, now this is still the same. He views demons as a threat because he hasn’t had good experiences with them. Even if Apo became his friend in the clearing, Apo ends up lying to Owen, and betraying his trust. Guts became his friend but Guts tried to poison Magic. Owen has never fully trusted Krow and that distrust only furthers once he knows what Krow is capable of based on his experiences with demons.

So let’s go back to the previous question: who was it there? You’re probably thinking well how do you explain maze Owen and the chips. ccOwen has mentioned before that it's a possibility for the chips to alter memories. Maybe Starr suppressed those memories and maze Owen was there again. Or he was hit hard on the head right? Maybe his chip was damaged and it altered his emotions and memory.

There is too little known information to us as an audience about the chips in their head. We know they can supposedly make the outsiders lose track of time, alter their memories, their emotions and change how they act. But if the chips in their head is the explanation for everything then why does Owen remember killing his friends when he talks to Magic? He says it like he wasn't the one doing it, like he watched someone else do it. How do you explain his behaviour then? If the damaged chip really made him act like that then why do flashbacks still occur when he's in prison? He seems to have no control over those, so the chip must still work fine?

I think when we look at his character the maze has already changed him whether he likes it or not. There’s more doubt in him than before. He lets Apo go with extra time. He hesitated before he ran after him. No matter how small, he has changed.

But when Owen talks about himself in the past he makes this separation. The voices in his head won't stop calling for the guy they used to know, even though he's right here. I think Owen doesn't even want to acknowledge at one point he was friends with the demons he hated so much.

In that prison cell all his ideals and values are facing him. Everything he's done and he's known has been a lie. I think he knows this but can't bring himself to acknowledge that. Would you admit what you thought for your entire life was wrong? That you killed countless for nothing?

When faced with death Owen becomes desperate. Which I think explains his behaviour with Magic. That is his last hope and he knows people like the older version of him. I don't think he's fully lying though when he says i don't know why I did those things. Not because maze Owen came back or anything but because in the maze he no longer has this duty but he still carries it out. He's so tired from it all and he wants to leave it behind but he can't.

So let's go over his death scene one more time. “My head it's split in two” I think the explanation for this is that he was just hit with a bunch of flashbacks of his first days. Right before this he also says ‘I was a tool. Used’ I believe in his final moments where he has a moment to think he starts to fight himself. Should he have done all this for a country that throws him away the second he's useless? He was trained to do this. But should he have really? That's what I think is making him say my head it's split in two. He's fighting his own views and alongside these positive memories it makes him confused. And overwhelmed.

It's important to note Owen doesn't have a single bad flashback about Apo and Rasbi. He doesn't think about the levers, he thinks about his friends that he met. That he protected.

The more flashbacks he gets the more defensive he becomes. “I'm right here you can't convince me otherwise” He doesn't understand why the Owen in his memories is trusted so much, even though they're the same person. In his mind he's doing what he's always done. protect.

“It wasn't me I'm sorry I just wanted to keep people safe” everything he says to Magic is half genuine and half lie. I don't think even Owen knows which parts are which. It's easier if he separates himself into the nice trusted Owen and who he is now.

No matter what in the end, that was Owen. Not Maze Owen but Owen who is desperate to live. He's tired of it all. He's finished his mission and he won't even get to see what he thinks will be an honorable ending for him.

Remember what Owen says to Apo? "The man you manipulated and lied was nothing more than a puppet driven by the instinct to survive."

So of course he'll do anything to survive even if it means playing up the truth.

It's hard to separate Owen into these neat boxes and say for sure that was Maze Owen at the end or that was full manipulation. Because like Owen everything is a bit grey here. Maze Owen wasn't the best person, he hurt his friends, people were scared of him. And post memories Owen isn't some misunderstood guy that needs babying either.

My final thoughts on this debate is that in the end the one that pleads for his life is just Owen. To separate him and say it was Maze Owen doesn't allow you to understand how complex Owen is as a character. And continues to let you believe that Owen can't do anything wrong. Not understanding sometimes a good person is capable of this evil. To the end Owen still believed he was doing what was right and that was protecting the ones he cared about. So has anything really changed since the start?

#zara rambles #outsiders smp #outsiders smp spoilers #owengejuicetv #okay if you read this whole thing just know this was about 6k words sjdfhsd #i spent a looooong time writing this mainly cause i started in july got busy with school and continued it last week. along with rewatching #owens pov to get everything here. the original document with all my notes is like 12k long because cOwen looooves to talk #i'm open to other people's opinions obviously like i said i could be wrong but this is just how i see it based on the episodes we have on y #it's kinda unfair to expect people to know random knowledge buried deep in some 4 hour vod from 2 years ago so everything here is from yt #with the exception that one fighting cOri quote since Owen deleted that section from his yt series. but it was originally there #idk what else to say really. i'm not the biggest fan of the whole 'maze' owen thing as you can tell by this and many other posts of mine #i think its fine to call him that but you gotta understand there aren't actually 2 different people. thats the tldr #anyway ty for reading wish me luck when i post this on twitter #oh sorry for no videos tumblr hates those so you guys only got the quotes 😔 still the same stuff though so it doesn't really matter sjdjdj

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thisisnotthenerd · 1 month ago

Text

in the vein of my last cr post

i started watching critical role with bells hells. my first live episode was the halloween episode of 2022, so we're coming up on two years. i know i haven’t been here that long, but having seen them grow from their first major death to now, i have some thoughts.

marquet campaign? what marquet campaign

i wish they had more grounding in marquet. one of my favorite things that i’ve found about exandria is that the places feel so lived in. part of what made it so compelling in c1 and c2 was that the characters were so bound to the places and people even when they were adventurers. the players got to invest themselves in making their hometowns fit the characters.

bell’s hells has barely any touchpoints in marquet. laudna, orym, dorian, fearne, chetney, bertrand, fcg, and braius are not native to marquet and have only spent a few years at most there. even in their homes, most of them don’t have strong ties, at least not those we’ve seen.

laudna was a woods witch/phylactery/cryptid in the pale forest.

chetney had ties in wildemount, but many of them have passed, and he spent a lot of time traveling.

fcg woke up a few years ago and then went murderbot a few months ago iirc.

braius was a refugee and then was expelled from his home in zadash.

orym has strong ties in zephrah, but was notably traveling after the death of his father and husband.

fearne has strong ties to morri and ligament manor, but only to them, and minimally to her parents due to them leaving her there.

for those that grew up in marquet: imogen and ashton aren’t really tied to place or people. imogen was notably isolated from gelvaan, and estranged from her father. ashton landed in bassuras without memories and grew up an orphan before relocating to jrusar with the nobodies. neither of them has any particular knowledge of the variances in culture.

they weren’t filling in the gaps in the world that made places like whitestone, nicodranas, and zephrah feel lived in. it’s all narration. not to knock the narration, but it’s harder for the places to have an impact when the characters/players don’t remember them well.

more under the cut because this got long. it has been edited for clarity.

timeline considerations

also, think about the time they spent in each given place. BH has been in campaign for 97 days. 65 were pre-solstice. 40 of the 65 days pre-solstice were spent with at least part of the day in transit. 13 of those 40 days were ground travel, while the remaining 27 was via airship.

overall, they've spent 57/97 days in transit, 40 pre-solstice, 17 post-solstice. on either end, that's more than half of the time. post-solstice travel days isn't even counting the days with teleports, just their ground travel. numbers are a little fuzzy around the party split, since they spent different days traveling and had the time dilation.

in terms of actual time in each place, they've spent:

pre-solstice:

17 days in jrusar

3 days in heartmoor

7 days in bassuras (includes calloway hideout)

1 day in whitestone

3 days in the gloomed jungles of aeshanadoor (included in their ground travel days)

2 days in yios

2 days in the feywild

1 day in gelvaan

1 day at the tishtan excavation site

post-solstice:

2 days in uthodurn (team wildemount)

1 day in molaesmyr (team wildemount)

2 days in hearthdell (team issylra)

1 day in irriam canyon (team issylra) [time dilation wrt team wildemount can stretch this number. they played one day in irriam canyon with hevestro]

2 days in jrusar

2 days in zephrah

1 day in yios

2 days on slival (included in travel time)

2 days on kalutha

3 days in whitestone

4 days in feywild (time dilation days included)

2 days in ria'doin

1 day in razora (ruidus)

2 days in kreviris (ruidus)

1 day in zadash

1 day in aeor

1 day in rexxentrum

3 days in vasselheim

this doesn't precisely add up; they were in some of these places for the majority of the day and left at night, or stayed overnight & left in the morning. there are a few one-offs that i didn't mention for the sake of time. but the point is that they've spent a lot of time moving around. they've spent 70 days out of 97 in marquet (64 pre-solstice), but 39/70 were just transit days that passed quickly. post-solstice, they've spent 5 episodes on marquet, out of 60. they've spent 6 episodes in the feywild post-solstice.

in the post-solstice, they’ve spent a lot of time bouncing from place to place, and tend to have an absurd amount packed into certain days. even pre-solstice this was a tendency. there’s a few i’d point out:

Sydenstar 17: reunion with the Calloways, the Dusk/Yu reveal, Ira fleeing with the Moontide crown, reveal of the divine lattice around Ruidus

Sydenstar 18: FCG goes murderbot, Artana Voe attacks Paragon’s Call and BH try to get Treshi, only to be ambushed by Otohan. Fearne, Orym and Laudna die, and the latter cannot be resurrected with the resources they have available.

Sydenstar 24: After Imogen & FCG go into Ashton’s head the preceding night, they meet with Keyleth, go to Whitestone, have an audience with Percy, resurrect Laudna / defeat Delilah, and Imogen dreams of Eshteross dying

Fessuran 8: They start the day getting attacked by Shithead, go to Ebenold Kai’s house, only to go to the Fire Plane and get the Predathos reveal, then return with Planerider Ryn’s aid, get attacked by the Ruby Vanguard and investigate Tuldus, meet with Ashton at the Seminary, meet Kadija Sumal only for her to be Feebleminded by Ludinus, and then they Planeshift to the Feywild, where they trek out to get to Ligament Manor.

Fessuran 20: The Battle of the Red Center / Apogee Solstice. I don’t think I need to explain this one.

Quen’pillar 4: The parties reunite in Jrusar, then split, with the guests going to the Starpoint, and BH headed to Zephrah. They further split, with Imodna going canon and seeing the Ludinus projections, FCG and Ashton find Milo, and Chet, Fearne, and Orym have an encounter with a bounty hunter and then have a vision in the Duskmaven temple. FCG scrys on Liliana and finds her on the moon.

Quen’pillar 8: BH teleports to Yios to find Dancer and get attacked by Shithead. They teleport to Bassuras where they attack and kill Ratanish to save Imahara Joe. They then make a deal with the All-Minds-Butn to plant it on Ruidus. Then they transport to Slival for the night.

Quen’pillar 9: they meet the Dolabos and Jirana, who gives them the compass. They then interrogate Ratanish and summon the Crimson Abyss, after fighting their way aboard, they liaise with the crew and Fearne gets her boon.

Quen’pillar 12: they hike to the center of Kalutha and go spelunking. they find Evontra’vir and get answers. Then they go into the Chynes Maw where Ashton and Fearne get the shard of Rau’shan out. Ludinus simulacrum & Reilora fight. they then teleport to Whitestone where they get the harness back and agree to scout out the moon.

Quen’pillar 14: in the wake of Shardgate, they decide to go to Morri’s house. they go to the Feywild and undergo all three trust trials, and then plane shift back to the same day. They meet at the encampment and decide on the plan. they sneak through the Malleus Key and get through the Bloody Bridge. they go to Razora and meet Dono and Barthie. they fight Willmaster Edmuda. FCG and Fearne run into Otohan. they travel towards Kreviris, and on the way find the rift leading to Ria’Doin.

Quen’pillar 16: day of the Volition’s sabotage attacks. they succeed in their missions and start leaving. they meet the Weave Mind and Liliana in quick succession. Final Otohan attack. FCG sacrifice. they make it the Bloody Bridge and get back to the Malleus Key encampment.

Quen’pillar 17: Fearne meets Zathuda and is attacked by her shadow forms. They meet Essek and go to Zadash where they interrogate Astrid. they shop for clothes and magic items and meet Pumat Sol. Swordgate.

Quen’pillar 18: Failed Teleports to Aeor. find Ruby Vanguard members who died to Dominox. Call Teven and meet Braius. battle with Dominox and Ludinus. Occultus Thalamus shows Downfall. Delilah is triggered, fought, and ritually sealed in the soul anchor.

Quen’pillar 21: They plane shift to the Feywild and go to the Manor. the cross the Amethyst Gulch Sierras and ambush the Unseelie party there. Party meets the Arch Heart. They kill Zathuda and take him back to the Manor where Morri turns him into a tapestry that they then interrogate. Fearne tames Gloamglut.

while they’ve been more frequent in the late campaign, it was still common for them to be passing days in travel and then suddenly do a lot of fighting. it’s the nature of the game, but i find that bell’s hells really dealt with this issue in particular. they’re literally having the same conversations every day even if they’re episodes apart.

they spent the longest in jrusar, where they were mostly doing low-level jobs and engaging with various patrons (bertrand, eshteross, jiana hexum). it's not really home to any of them, unless you count laudna and imogen staying with zhudanna, which i don't really. 2nd by time is bassuras, which is where ashton grew up, but it was mostly a basis for them to track treshi, meet with the calloways, and get killed by otohan. 3rd by time is the feywild.

the built up places

the only places that have had the lived-in aspect to them have been ligament manor, with ashley-as-fearne’s influence, zephrah, informed by liam-as-orym and marisha-as-keyleth previously, whitestone, with taliesin-as-percy & laura-as-vex's influence, and honestly uthodurn, having deanna and frida and chetney. four places, across the campaign, and none of them in marquet. i feel like we’d get the vibe from the silken squall with how robbie has filled in some of the gaps, but c3 hasn’t had reason to go there.

the above examples excepted, bell’s hells doesn’t have homes to go back to. many of them have found their sole companionship with the group and their part time allies. they are almost entirely internally focused, and it’s led to a lot of repetitive debate and retracing of patterns.

it also means they don’t tend reach out to their short-term allies or try and get different perspectives on their views. they've contacted keyleth multiple times, but they never tried to contact deanna, frida, and prism again, even though they were explicitly doing research with the cobalt soul. how hard would it have been to send a message once they were functional again.

i know the vibe was npcs at character creation. but at least npcs have a sense of connection to the spaces they inhabit. and the people they interact with.

personal opinions

some tweaks i’d make that i don’t think would irreparably change c3

probably go wizard laudna as i’ve previously talked about. i’d make her a student/researcher at the starpoint conservatory, and give her both a grounding in arcane research and a base knowledge of the major factions and powers of marquet as a result of her time there. you could do it while maintaining delilah; have her encounter vex earlier on in her time in whitestone, and have vex encourage her to live her life and harness her power by learning about it. the lady of whitestone is generous. i bet she’d do it for the woman who was sacrificed in her image. i’d make at a point where it’s not obvious that laudna is dead and that delilah’s living in her head—it makes going to whitestone to resurrect her just that much more angsty. the added bonus is that she’d probably have higher int, which would fix a lot of my personal issues with the campaign not having people who know anything. late campaign it would be laudna and chetney sniffing out things to look at, but getting multiple perspectives instead of just visions and identify spells and items going in the harness. travis and marisha’s bread and butter.

have fcg start with a little bit more divine connection. ngl i loved their journey, and i cried so much when they died, but having that anchor earlier would have given a little more divine influence to this campaign in a way that i think would have made the god debates a little less frequent. honestly i think it would have been cool to see them go polytheist cleric. avandra for the path ahead, moradin as patron of the mechanical and created, erathis as the lady of law and civilization guiding their hand in learning about the world, etc. it would be a different take on a cleric and faith, and as evidenced by braius, sam can play a faithful character with split ties. admittedly i’m biased because of my own religious inclinations, but in a world with many gods, wouldn’t it make sense for a little aeormaton who was created without their influence to explore many different aspects of divinity in exandria? and it would fit for marquet, which has a lot of indian influence.

have imogen be aware of the apex war and otohan’s role in it, as a child growing up in the taloned highlands. tie liliana leaving to the war and whispers about the ruidusborn causing destruction as part of the war. make it clear that she wasn’t just a hot deadly set piece, but a person of faith, who came from a mercenary background to make big swings during the war, and in the aftermath have suspicion of them ramp up, especially with their disappearance. maybe a missed opportunity; otohan passed through gelvaan and met liliana early and imogen heard about it.

have dusk/yu know about fearne being zathuda’s bio daughter and have the moontide crown be a ruse to grab her and birdie (if possible) for zathuda. maybe not a full reveal, but enough to plant suspicions early and make the fey key sabotage a little more fraught.

maybe not give them a cycle of patrons. they went from eshteross's employ to hexum's, then were basically sent out by keyleth. during the party split, they got support to got to molaesmyr from the king & queen of uthodurn and also abbadina and hevestro. the most time they spent pursuing their own ends was when they went to yios and stopped in aeshanadoor on their way. i think this contributed to a lack of independence that took away from their decision making capabilities. if it wasn't a patron, it was based on individual interests and less group decisions. now they're continually circling because they have the same arguments over and over.

alter the teleportation/communication/resurrection magic breakdown. just personal preference. i get the purpose that it served, but it just meant that they weren't communicating as they went through teleportation mishaps with the staff. also idk why imogen didn't just take teleport at level 13. it would have freed up the attunement slot with the staff and dealt with the psychic damage issue. she hit 13 post-quen'pillar 4, which is when they got transportation via plants working again, so it wouldn't have been a huge change.

#critical role #cr spoilers #cr meta #bell’s hells #bells hells #c3 #chetney pock o'pea #laudna #dorian storm #fresh cut grass #fcg #deanna leimert #frida #braius doomseed #fearne calloway #imogen temult #orym of the air ashari #ashton greymoore #yu suffiad #otohan thull #this rant is brought to you by some frustration after c3e111 #it took them prodding themselves as the nein to get some of the conversations they’ve needed for weeks #i firmly believe that if they’d had a home base they’d have half the problems they’ve had #and way more group cohesion even if they look like a grab bag of npcs #it’s been three months of either travel or packed days with no in between #they've had like 10 days total that they spent in a place without engaging in activities #and most of those were pre-solstice #cr discourse #tagged with discourse because these probably aren't popular opinions

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