#like i'm not anti kylo

[kelzen]

[clqoo]

i rant about this at least once a month but here i go again: tdlr: ben solo deserved better and it's incredibly sad how his life was cut off right at the "beginning" of it, and the new movie with rey could be screwed up so easily. the sequels also aren't exactly bad they're just disappointing. ben solo deserved so much better and i cannot stand the fact that he didn't get to live. i cannot stand it, it enrages me, it makes me so sad and it is just soul crushing when you think about it from SO many different levels. right when this poor boy found peace, right when he finally escaped from the chains that had held him down since before birth he dies. because of everything he has done and now has to atone for, because of the constant reminders and guilt he probably would've faced, he probably wouldn't have ever really known peace even afterwards, but i'd absolutely love to imagine that he would've gotten to at least wake up one morning and not feel the absolute crush he probably felt as kylo ren. he died without being granted the chance to show that he was different, he died without getting to live in peace for once, he died without knowing what it is like to be free of continual darkness in normal life, he died with it being his reputation against rey's words and i know for dang sure not everyone believed rey when she probably came out of exegol preaching that ben solo died a hero; and it is absolutely soul crushing. if he doesn't come back in this new movie, i'm gonna absolutely flip. there is no way they will be able to portray rey without her literal dyad, the literal other half of her soul in the force. i feel like this could go two ways: they screw up by trying to please the fandom and fail in the process just like they did with a lot of the sequel trilogy or it ends up being good (maybe even decent) and they mention ben. they have to, right? i just feel like there is so many ways this could go wrong but at the same time i feel like it could go so right if the correct people are involved. not many high hopes though. i love the sequels, i really do, and i feel like a lot of the bad parts of these movies are focused on when in reality they aren't bad movies they're just disappointing. this is very much the top of the list for disappointing, though.

[worstcharacterpoll]

[Image description: A tournament bracket of 32 contenders, labeled "Tumblr's most hated." The matchups on the left are Vriska vs. Pearl from SU; Rex from Victorious vs. Rick Sanchez; Ansem the Wise vs. Gul Dukat; Kylo Ren vs. Kokichi Ouma; Scrappy Doo vs. Sheldon Cooper; Pierre from Stardew vs. Mort from Madagascar; Seraphine from League vs. Heimskr; and Jurgen Leitner vs. Andre Glacier. The matchups on the right are Walter White vs. Light Yagami; Buck Cluck vs. Ross Geller; Bramblestar vs. Starlight Glimmer; Goro Akechi vs. Pariston Hill; Katsuki Bakugo vs. Berdly; Angel Dust vs. the Impostor; Olaf from Frozen vs. Hooty; and Zenos viator Galvus vs. Tony Stark. The bracket is red on a black background. End ID]

Here is the official bracket for the most Hated Character on Tumblr! Each round will last 24 hours, with a 12 hour break in between. Round 1 should start Feb 9, 2023 at 9:00 AM CST.

As a reminder, this tournament is for the characters that you hate the most, so always vote for your least favorite of the two options. The winner will be publicly executed.

FAQ under cut:

Q: Why did you put in x character and not y character? Aren't there more hateable characters from that franchise?

A: I wanted to keep the competition light-hearted, funny, and interesting. I intentionally avoided most shitty parent characters, dictators, characters who were meant to be hated, etc., as well as characters heavily associated with bigotry and sexual assault, and gravitated towards characters that were more divisive in fandom. Exceptions were only made for characters I am familiar enough with and can use my own judgement for. Using Zenos as an example: He is a villain who is very evil and meant to be hated, which I mostly avoided when taking suggestions for things I wasn't familiar with myself. However, he's very divisive between people who think he's a good interesting villain, people who don't think he's a good villain and don't like him in the story at all, and people who want him carnally. Walter White is also meant to be hated, but he has a meme status, and as a villain protagonist I think he's more interesting than most "meant to be hated" characters. Also, there are certain franchises that I simply didn't want to include. If JK Rowling wasn't such a real and horrible political presence, owing all her influence to Harry Potter, I would've definitely put Snape on the poll. As it stands, I don't really want to give HP any attention. TL;DR answer: Because it's funnier that way

Q: But I LIKE that character :(

A: As mentioned before, I specifically gravitated more towards characters who are more divisive rather than universally hated. They are usually more interesting, and there is more variety with those types of characters - you don't have shitty dad character #1 vs. shitty dad character #2. I actually looked for "anti-(character)" tags and discourse about that character when making decisions about who to include. lol If you actually like some of these characters (uh, my condolences), vote against them in their respective matchups.

Q: Is it too late to suggest a replacement?

A: Yes.

Q: Why are you doing this?

A: I feed off of hatred and violence. I want to see who tumblr users REALLY hate.

Q: Why Pearl?

A: It was quite a while ago now so I get it if people don't remember, but Pearl discourse used to be a big thing and people argued that she was irredeemable for many of the things she did early on in the show. If you remember the "Pearl hates the Irish" meme, that was a parody of how much people hated her

Q: Why Hooty?

A: I haven't seen the Owl House but I'm told many people think he's annoying. Also he's voiced by Alex Hirsch and fuck that guy he did my boy Ford so dirty I'm still mad about this

Q: Why Starlight Glimmer?

A: MLP:FiM is another show I didn't really watch but she was a villain who got redeemed and became a main character and a lot of people think her redemption arc was rushed and botched and she actually made a lot of people quit watching the show. One of my close friends really really really hates her and I don't think that's an isolated incident

Q: Why Berdly?

A: Annoying. Personally I think his arc of becoming less annoying was pretty fun but a lot of people still hate him.

Q: Why Bakugo (instead of Mineta)?

A: I actually debated this a lot and held a preliminary poll which Mineta actually won. But then I decided democracy is dead because Mineta really wouldn't be as interesting as Bakugo in this tournament because he's basically universally hated. Bakugo is more interesting because people who hate him REALLY hate him, while people who love him REALLY love him. Kind of like Vriska. I think. I never read Homestuck and I don't plan on ever doing so.

Q: Why Tony Stark?

A: He's a heavily divisive character because he's a war profiteer billionaire with a superiority complex, but the narrative treats him as a morally pure hero. Also, he's MCU Spider-Man's mentor and most of MCU Spider-Man is basically defined by Tony Stark and he's not allowed to be his own character. There's a bunch of other stuff but I didn't watch and I don't care about most of the MCU. Personally I'm a really big Spider-Man fan and I despise him for what he did to Peter Parker but I shall refrain from making this a long rant.

Q: Why did you include characters that you're not familiar with?

A: I didn't want to exclusively have characters from my interests. I wanted a bit of variety. Before the poll started, I accepted submissions for candidates, and basically trusted submitters to send in decent characters. Some of the characters I ended up with may go against the vague guidelines I set for myself, which kind of sucks, but that's how it is now.

Q: This bracket sucks.

A: Make your own tournament then. I'm just some guy making a tournament on tumblr dot com for free. Don't take it too seriously.

[sad-drake-lyrics]

what my 65yo father has to say about antis:

let me preface this by saying, i literally wish i had what just happened on video to go viral on TikTok. i was shook by this conversation down to my bones; and if you could see my father - a loud old Italian man with dramatic hand gestures - say what he had to say, i think this shit would blow up. but as i was obviously not filming him while we were eating, i will have to relay to you the story with my words.

so i'm sitting eating dinner at the coffee table with my father while watching TV, as Americans often do instead of eating at the dinner table, and since the news was on he started telling me this story that had been recently mentioned on TV once again from maybe ten years ago (it was in 2014, you can read about it here) where these two 12-year-old girls killed one of their friends as a sacrifice to the Slender Man. yeah, real thing. fucked up.

and so my father told me about how they interviewed one of the killer's mothers, and when questioned about where her daughter's motive could've come from, she said something along the lines of: you know, when i was a kid, i was into Stephen King and horror - and so when my kid was into that kind of stuff, i didn’t think it was a big deal.

so, of course, my response was "yeah, being into that stuff isn’t a big deal at all - it's normal - but being a sociopath and murdering someone is not normal; it's fucked up. but there's nothing wrong with being into horror stories - they're just stories meant to entertain - it doesn't make you a murderer to enjoy Halloween - but it would if you put on a Michael Myers mask and went out and stabbed people." and, of course, like any sane person, my father agreed with me.

then, continuing this line of conversation, i started talking about the concept of how "fiction isn’t reality," and how a frightening amount of people don't understand that; and i literally started telling him about antis - people on the internet who attack and harass others over "problematic" or "inappropriate" fictional interests.

i used well-known pop culture examples like: if you're into Game of Thrones and like Jaime and Cersei together or wanted Jon and Daenerys to end up together (i didn't think he would process the term "shipping," but clearly by the end of this conversation i think i was wrong), that people (antis) will say things like "you should die," and that you "support inc*st in real life," and that "you're disgusting."

i also used the examples of "toxic relationships" in pop culture, like the Joker and Harley Quinn, or Kylo Ren and Rey, and how if you’re into those kinds of fictional relationships that people (antis) will say that you "support toxic relationships," and that you are "glorifying abuse," and that it all "must be what you really want and believe is right or good."

and my fucking 65-year-old father literally goes: "I don’t understand. It’s a TV show. Don't they know it’s fake?"

queue my jaw dropping to the fucking ground because i'm like. YES. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT PRO-SHIPPERS ARE TRYING TO SAY AND THESE PEOPLE DON'T GET IT.

he was flabbergasted, my pals. the shock in his eyes was incredible to behold.

and, oh boy, that isn't even the best part, guys.

my father then says, "Don’t tell me it’s like that with anime too?"

and i said, "it's worse with anime."

and i fucking swear to you - no joke, on my life and baby Jesus' cradle - again my 65-year-old father looks at me and says, “It’s a fucken cartoon."

... ... ...

... i can't ...

i can't end this post better than that.

[agirlking]

It was your post dfjkdfljal I'm used to tumblr devolving into people loathing me for disagreeing with why people do or don't like a character so I was being careful. I'm glad you're chill about it, I'm not used to that xD

'I don’t think she was purposefully stalking him. At least not in the beginning. There was also completely different person who had said it was her fault that his father died and his clan was taken and I kind of thought… what the hell?' Definitely not stalking him intentionally at first, I don't THINK so, at least now, I assume she was after food after her group all got killed and she wasn't overtly prepared to survive alone.

I think by the time he tried to leave her with Raka she had made that call, she was clearly trying to pull away to get Noa. Doesn't change that I think she's fascinating and the more I think on it the more I understand her and question if I wouldn't do the same if put in her extreme situation, but I think a DEGREE of intentional planned out manipulation was there, which always puts me off of relationships to an extent, depending how it's handled, whether platonic or romantic.

(I really hope the sequel will focus more on what draws them to each other and if it addresses that I'll let it go. I really love the IDEA of their friendship, it was actually one of the things I looked forward too most from previews, I just wish there felt like more was done to make me BELIEVE it.)

As for the fault thing, that's another area I just wish Noa's reaction felt a tad more realistic and human - uh... sentient human level intelligence ape, to me. It's not Mae's fault for Proximus' actions, it certainly doesn't absolve him, but it was her presence that helped Sylva/Silva (how tf do you spell his name I keep seeing both) find Noa's village. After the IMMENSE trauma Noa went through, I kept kinda waiting for him to have a moment of "if she wasn't there this wouldn't have happened" and ideally be able to process it. I love Noa, he's sweet, but at times he almost feels like he's lacking in reasonable flaws, outside of some annoyance at Mae before he knows she can talk. Again I hope maybe the sequel will be able to slow down and properly focus on the probably very complex feelings both of them have in regards to each other.

I actually filmed a video about 2 hours ago (not a plug, I do not post them publicly nor will I due to valuing my privacy) for my friends about how I realize I adore that Mae is allowed to be "unpleasant" and flawed and strong (but not the cliche and often itself sexist idea of a Strong Female Character (TM)) in the way male characters often are. So I'm now there with you!

I think about how Mae is presumably someone I'm supposed to like but she stalked Noa with the intention of manipulating him, wants to kill his entire species, tried to drown his family, and had the GALL to show up with a gun to say goodbye to him.

[darklinaforever]

I'm perplexed when I see Pro Reylo and Anti Oshamir saying that Reylo is the love of light while Oshamir is the antithesis to the dark side when... no ? Reylo has never been about the light side of the force, but about the balance between the two. Between the dark and light side. Throw the Sith and Jedi in the trash. The idea of ​​creating something new, different, bringing back to the concept of Gray Jedi. And Oshamir, even if it is done differently, comes back to the same thing. The idea of ​​being free to use your power however you want. Free from rules. The power of two (really reminiscent of the concept of Reylo's dyad). Not only that, but it seems obvious that by these words, Qimir is far from being a Sith. He says the Jedi would call him that, not that he is one. And not only do these ideas seem to differ in some ways, but he also doesn't exhibit the typical behavior of a Sith. Qimir has a fragility, a gentleness and a respect for Osha which obviously recalls Ben Solo / Kylo Ren (beyond the aesthetics of the helmet) who was not a Sith. We also saw that not really real Sith have this type of behavior. So Qimir seems to be in a grayer area and he's pulling Osha in that direction. Not to mention that there is the whole entirely plausible theory that Qimir and Osha were originally the Knights of Ren. And even if they're on the dark side later, maybe originally it was just supposed to be something just different from the Jedi and the Sith, freeing from the rules. Some sort of new order, like Reylo was supposed to do. Yes, Oshamir is actually darker than Reylo, but we also have a huge similarity at the very heart of what the relationship was supposed to be. Both Reylo and Oshamir are meant to be different from the other classical orders of the force. They have differences, yes. But to say that they are complete antitheses of each other, don't be kidding.

[atla-confessions]

People will call every male character a metaphor for "the female experience" or "female coded" (whatever that means because they just pick the most unlikeable annoying edgy bad boys and say this, I don't know what they think I'm supposed to have deeply in common with Geto or Kylo or fucking Snape??), but when you have a character that has to suppress all her emotions because the misogynistic men in her life have told her to be seen and not heard and who is awkward and hides her emotions behind sarcasm or a false demureness because her father has forced her to do so, who is asked what she wants most in the world and just wants to cuddle in arms she feels a little warmer and freer in and eat something sweet, who doesn't like being screamed at for the crime of "being talked to by a man" but shuts down at an extended fight because she doesn't want to get into it either, who fully expects to just be killed the very first time in her life she ever acts out, she's called a fake unrealistic unrelatable harpy who has no reason to act or feel any way she does, and actually doesn't even feel anything, and even gets fatshamed by the same feminists who'll call their male faves Honorary Women. Or a girl who gets jealous sometimes or lashes out and says things that go too far in her anger like mocking a blind girl or telling her brother he didn't love their dad mom, because the bond she had with her mother and the guilt she feels for her death and the loss she feels for her father's absence and the starry-eyed awkwardness she has in love especially towards crushes she's scared or losing the same way she lost other loved ones, because she tries to be hopeful and talks about that, because she misses her mom and talks about that, because she has a crush on two nice boys who give her hope and make her feel safe and it goes a bit awkwardly both times, and call her the worst thing ever and even go out of their way to undermine all her drive and post-series accomplishment and life because they hate her for not picking the boy they had a crush on themselves?

The vitriol aimed at Mai and Katara makes me so angry, especially when it comes from Fandom Feminists who'll contort anything they personally like to be feminist and anything they hate to be anti-feminist regardless of logical throughlines. Just had to rant a bit. Phew.

X

[askbensolo]

Happy Halloween, my dudes!

Meet Paige and Rose, my mom's usual go-to sitters for Rey.

"'Sitters?'" I laughed. "What are you—a loth-cat?"

"Well, they can't be my babysitters, because I'm not a baby!" Rey huffed.

...Anyway. Paige is my age. Rose is eighteen...and also? Weirdly obsessed with me.

"You're Ben Solo!" Rose said when she first laid eyes on me. "The Ben Solo!"

I get that often enough that I kinda like to milk it, just a little bit. I struck a cocky stance. "Yeah, that's me—son of Alderaan's last princess, nephew of the Jedi Knight Luke Skywalker—"

"—and author of Ask Ben Solo. I've read your entire blog. Four times."

Ooh. Oooooh.

Cringe.

Rose spent the entire night glued to my side, asking me questions about things that had happened in my teenage years that even I don't remember—but, hey! I finally found someone who wanted to listen to all 15,000 words of my KOR OC's tragic backstory!

Also—hi, Rose. Since I know now that you're probably reading this.

"Drop the lost Ask Ben Solo files, Ben! Please!"

"The—the what?"

"Your college memoirs! Your fans deserve to know everything that happened in those mysterious five years of silence!" Rose lowered her voice to a conspiratorial whisper. "Me. I'm 'your fans.'"

"Uhh...I'll consider it," I chuckled.

...I wonder how many of my anons were literally just Rose Tico.

Paige is much less social than her sister. I tried talking to her a couple of times, and it didn't really go anywhere—you ask Paige something, and she'll answer you with like five words and go silent again. She kinda has the quietness of someone who's been through hell...and, maybe, hasn't quite made it out yet.

Seems nice, though. And like a good big sister. She kept Rey (and Rose) (okay, fine, AND me) from running into traffic like, ten times.

Paige didn't wear a costume. Rose dressed up as Senator Jar-Jar Binks (and now that I'm a Nabooian citizen, I found that sort of...distasteful, but I chose not to comment on it).

I dressed up as my KOR character, Kylo Ren. He has a super-cool scar on his face that is totally not the result of a slippery-bathtub-shaving-accident. Also—he? And the Dark Lady Revan? Are so totally married and in love or whatever.

Not because I’m into that sap, of course. Just because I want Revan and Kylo to have insanely-overpowered evil Sith babies together. (REVLO FOREVER, I will not tolerate anti-Revlo hate on this blog, BYE.)

Rey, as promised, dressed up as Emperor Palpatine, and had a Force-lightning prop she had made out of cellu-board. "Goooood, gooooooood!" she cackled whenever someone filled her bucket with candy. Despite being a wiry little thirteen-year-old girl, the Palpatine character seemed to come really...naturally to her. Weird.

Well, Happy Halloween!! Rey and I are about to have a candy-eating contest—and I have to prove to her that I ain't boring now just because I got old.

[anetherealpoetess]

a rings of power haladriel spoiler from a certified critic and my humble predictions for the finale:

so here is the full review from the critic, but it opens thus:

Deep into Star Wars: The Last Jedi, shortly after defeating the Supreme Leader’s highly trained elite guards, the anti-hero Kylo Ren extends his hand out to the protagonist Rey and asks her to join him. Together, he says, they can rule the galaxy. He pushes her to confront her greatest fear and assures her that she means the world to him. On the whole, the scene is both epic and intimate. A similar moment occurs late in the second season of The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power as the series’ two most central forces clash in a swordfight. Sauron (Charlie Vickers) reiterates his desire to make Galadriel (Morfydd Clark) the queen of all Middle-earth. There’s nothing he wants more—and he’s willing to do whatever it takes to have her by his side.

on the one hand, okay; we really are repeating the ending of season one. on the other hand, i will always love sauron's obsession with galadriel being so overt a thing. the critic seemed to enjoy the confrontation (a running theme in reviews) but took umbrage with clunky dialogue undercutting the emotions, which ... yeah. the rings of power is intent on being a traditional high fantasy, but it's better when grounded in the modern (like sauron using darvo tactics and language on celebrimbor for chilling effect, rather than the stilted, pseudo-poetic declarations the show often attempts which does undercut the emotion.)

as for my predictions, i fear adar is mortally wounded and returns to galadriel her ring in the hope of helping her defeat sauron. i would love adar to live but fear he's a goner. i would also hope that galadriel keeps the nine rings, and next season is sauron hunting her down to retrieve them, but since the show seems intent on degrading galadriel at every turn, she probably gives up the nine to him during their confrontation (granting the incels permission to spend another two years whining about how everything is her fault) and flees.

i'm not here for the plot though. i am just here for the vibes, the beautiful villains, and sauron's profane and seductive worship of galadriel.

[rey-jake-therapist]

Sorry, I have to get this off my chest because I'm starting to see trend on x.

One thing that kind of baffles me is when I see Haladriel shippers who like to ship Halbrand and Galadriel like they were together in S1, which is perfectly fine... except, the part that I'm raising my eyebrow at is when they turn around and condemn the fellow shippers who accept that Sauron and Halbrand are the same person, and enjoy the added layer of complexity and darkness to their relationship. Like, ok you like extra vanilla and cream in your coffee while I like mine to have more expresso. No issue with that... except they often like to make it an issue when they come across anyone/thing that explores Saurondriel or fangirls over it. It's rly weird and smells too familiar to those puritans who preach that Haladriel (Sauron included) shouldn't be shipped because they take Sauron as a black and white villain.

Essentially, they treat Halbrand like he was never Sauron in disguise, and I'm like, okay sis, you do you. Whatever floats your boat. But please don't act morally superior over it because that makes you no different than the same purists that sht on anything that's doesn't align to traditional Chris/tian values, and nor does it make you better than the lorebros who insist that Galadriel cannot ever love/marry anyone else after Celeborn because she's an elf. But you know, I don't like to engage with discourse so I just stay in my lane and am humbly grateful we're still on the same coin, just different sides I guess. Until they start to side with the puritans and/lorebros as a copout and/or to feel better about themselves. Very peculiar.

I never came across those shippers so far, but I agree it's very... strange? And a denial of canon I'd say even, because the fact is wether they want it or not, Halbrand = Sauron.

Maybe there are people who used to ship Halbrand and Galadriel before it was revealed that Halbrand was Sauron, and were very disappointed at the end? It's a pity if that's the reason, but doing some mental gymnastics to separate Halbrand from Sauron entirely is... certainly a choice.

I mean, as Halbrand was probably the closest we saw Sauron to be what he used to be before Morgoth corrupted him, aka Mairon, but even then, Sauron was never far away. It's not as if Sauron had parasited Halbrand or something. They're literally the same person, and at no point did the show tell us otherwise.

It kinda reminds me of other ships involving a villain, where shippers seem to feel bad about shipping the protagonist with the bad guy who does all these terrible things, so they turn the narrative upside down and literally invent non canon "facts" that make the villain a anti hero, a victim who's not responsible for his actions, and yell at those who choose to see him as he really is, aka... a complex character, who still has a glimpse of goodness in him but still chooses evil anyway.

As much as I'm annoyed when people strip of a villain of what makes them complex to reduce them to a two-dimensional carboard cut-out villain (like I often see Sauron reduced to on Tumblr), it's equally annoying when the contrary happens. What makes characters such as Sauron, Darth Vader, Kylo Ren, the Darkling etc. interesting, fascinating even, IS that they're complex, and thus sometimes sympathetic. And shipping a protagonist with such a character is way more fun, imho, than shipping said character only with the best version of themselves.

[frumfrumfroo]

The Acolyte ship is an evil/evil dynamic, so I would argue it's not meaningfully the same thing as Reylo. But I think they are trying to pander to it a little bit, yes, completely missing the point of what made the ship attractive. He's very violent with her in a way Kylo Ren never was with Rey which I just find really sad. That was never the draw for me personally (and strangulation is a hard line for me, which is why I don't really like Anidala, even if I ship it cosmically).

But the fact that they cast someone very conventionally attractive as the bad guy is really funny. Like we're all shallow airheads who only liked Kylo Ren because he was hot.

Really?? So is it pure visuals or do people think the characters will actually push each other in a positive direction?

I do get a little disgruntled at people's 'that's all reylo is' shitposts about finding the villain hot or finding threatening/strangulation hot or whatever. I realise these are jokes mocking antis for getting so up in arms about very standard bodice ripper tropes which have been hugely popular forever and it's fine, but that's not at all what reylo is to me.

I talked a long time ago about how I'm not really a villain fucker and don't generally like that many etl pairings. Pretty much for the same reasons I don't like rival-shipping and because, like you, I'm not into the violence. It's not a deal breaker for me if there's violence between the ship before they develop a connection, obviously, but I don't find it titillating and don't want to see the violence itself portrayed as sexual. I can't stand hate as sexual tension and etl ships are very prone to that.

I'm here for the B&tB of it all, personally. To me reylo is about hope, healing, and compassion. About two lost and lonely souls truly seeing and recognising each other when no one else did and helping one another become their best, most authentic selves. They free each other from bondage and pain.

If Ben were actually a Sexy Bad Boy or DFP, I wouldn't ship it. Him not being that is the entire reason it appeals to me. If he'd seen her as a rival or resented her in the way people often write in fics, I wouldn't ship it. He never hated her and she stops hating him as soon as she realises he's not a monster, their attraction comes from a place of sympathy and curiosity on both sides not from jealousy or covetousness--that's why they're OTP. This is among the many things tros fucked up.

[perfectfangirl]

Please understand this in itself is not ship hate itself, I couldn't care less what people ship, just mere observation. But are Kylo and Rey not related? Maybe that is why people were butthurt about it. While Lucy and Cooper are not, so people won't bat an eye.

hello, op! no, kylo ren and rey are not related. but in the beginning, it was something a lot of antis [or just cautious people from the *last* time this almost happened 😅] were speculating on. kylo ren is the grandson of anakin. rey is a little harder to explain but rey is of palpatine [by way of technicality of the force in relation to her parents]. if you squint she could be interpreted as his granddaughter but truly she's like the child of a clone almost and not really a "natural" child of his by any means. all this to say, the skywalker and palpatine canonically has not crossed streams in the cinematic universe before this for there to be relation of the two. trust me when i say i've been in fandom trenches with [canonical] consanguineous ships and the writers definitely hated all us equally in the end so lmao. i'll have you know op, and you're not gonna believe this but. lucy has canonically been depicted as having a relationship with her cousin, chet, in the show. people are way less angry about that, actually rotf but any who people hated reylo primarily because it was enemies to lovers type trope and there was lots of fighting and moral questionability going on not unlike ghoulcy [typical star wars romance 💀] anyways, i didn't interpret this question as ship hate, i'm glad you asked it, actually ❤️

[jonathanrogersartist]

Anyone else irritated by how both the lovers and haters of The Last Jedi seem to totally miss the point of the ending of Luke's storyline in that film? Haters ignore that Luke redeems himself for his mistakes and goes out with an epic final act that reaffirms the value of mythic stories and why we need heroes, and thus is an explicitly pro-Jedi moral. So Luke's whole story is about him rejecting the cynicism of old age and failure, and snaps out of that insufferable attitude that tries to paint all sides as equally bastardly. It's a story about WHY the fundamental ethos of Star Wars, the dichotomy of genuine good vs absolute evil represented by the Jedi as avatars of ultimate love, and the Sith/Snoke/Whatever as avatars of ultimate hate, is eternally relevant and something we need for spiritual nourishment during dark times. And.... the lovers ignore this too. They tend to latch onto Luke's bitter words from earlier in the movie about how the Jedi were a corrupt and hypocritical institution that needs to end. These kinds of people are passionately anti-Jedi, and LOOOOOOOOOOVE that for a few minutes, a canon SW movie was saying that they all suck. They also unironically take Kylo Ren's 'let the past die' mantra at face value and think that THIS is the moral of that movie. They look at the messages of past Star Wars with a kind of preening disgust, seeing it as childish and one-note at best, damaging and corrupting for society at large, at worst. It is what I'm going to call 'Knight Templar Syndrome.' I speculate that they think old things are automatically dumb or ignorant or worthless, and can only see it through the lens of 'how can I make this so irredeemably problematic in my brain, so that my rejection of it is therefore morally right, and makes me feel like a great person?' So of course, the Jedi as a representation of the wisdom and value of certain 'traditions' were doomed to be targeted by such transparently performative people. And for the first two hours of TLJ, these fans were having the time of their fuckin life. I am also pretty sure I've seen some posts where they take Yoda's words at the burning tree extremely literally, and think that entire scene is also about the need to destroy the past (the literal burning imagery does kinda give this impression at face-value, to be fair), and that Yoda's advice to Luke is "Move forward and never look back," when he is ACTUALLY saying "Move forward with all that you have learned, the good and bad, and make sure the good parts live on." It's little wonder then, that TLJ diehards are completely convinced that Rise of Skywalker ignored/insulted/changed everything about their darling. If they thought Last Jedi was about the need for an ideological scorched-earth, only to then watch Rise be about the reconciliation of the past with the future, then yup, their vicious reaction to it, rife with conspiracy theories, demonization of JJ and Terrio, etc. makes sense.

[olderthannetfic]

I wasn't an anti but I logged back into tumblr after a few years of not using it (2018-19 exodus), and that's when I first heard about the anti vs proship deal. When I was a teen I often read incest/underage/gore/abuse/rpf whatever category of things that are supposed to be brain rotting for you and I never thought twice about it. I never felt guilty, I didn't think it was wrong, and it never crossed my mind to think "this royed fic is depraved and the author a sicko". But when I logged back in, I started reading arguments from both sides.

While going through my blog, to my horror I discovered I had long ago reblogged some rick and morty ship fanart, the grandpa/son messed up relationship version. I thought what if someone finds this blog and connects it to me irl? How would I explain this? Why do I even like this? I thought they would think I was a pedophile. I quickly deleted all of it that I could find.

I also came across a bunch of kylux fanart. I had recently been seeing posts about how that was racist because of course some background white dude with two lines is in a more popular ship then the leads of color, right? Racism. I deleted those, too.

And now I feel so stupid for getting caught up in it. I never outwardly expressed any of this but it was an internal I have to be careful about what I reblog, what art I appreciate, and what I write. I chalk it up to being a year into covid and being isolated, wishing I could be physically in my uni classes, and being incredibly burnt out. I thought what people filled their heads with was really important- because so many people were not wearing masks and covid was overloading hospitals. I was incredibly worried about killing my immunocompromised coworker by giving them covid and resented everyone who wasn't following distancing guidelines (which was a lot of fellow students, my roommate, the public). And I thought if people considered more about what information they shared, and realised their capacity to harm, then this wouldn't be happening.

Plucking the potentially "harmful" things from my life felt like I was helping something. Though I'm not acting like I was operating selflessly. A lot of it was fear of how others would judge me.

After reading what you specifically had to say about kylux I realized how stupid I was being. Because the whole appeal of them is hot kylo ren and the BDSM villains fucking each other in leather. There is no other ship combo in the prequels that delivers that as naturally. It really is super lamentable that m/m juggernaut pairs trend white but it really is 1. lack of nonwhite main characters in popular media in the first place, and 2. lack of nonwhite woobies and characters that fit into that shippable mold. And these things being controlled by the profit margins of hollywood. I thank you for pointing these things out, and snapping me out of being an idiot.

A lot of people my age seem to believe you can change the world by sharing an infographic on instagram. Or here. I don't want to be too harsh on people for clinging so hard to the power of the internet for positive change!! during the most isolated moments of this pandemic, but I really recommend 1. killing the cop in your head and 2. seeing what sort connection you can make with the people in your area. I love logging off and being around people, and I love logging on to read my favs banging with tags that would make a priest infarct.

--

That feeling of impotence during a time of ongoing stress is exactly what gets people reaching for the fake activism. They've got to do something, and all the actually productive things are out of reach so...

Emotionally, it's just how we're built, I'm afraid.

[piglet26]

Rey Solo... Rey from Jakku.... Rey No one... anything but Rey Skywalker.

The Last Jedi simply revealed that Rey was a "nobody" – perhaps the most shocking and least expected outcome for the Rey lineage debate. It was a perfect twist in our heroine story despite people seeming desperate for her to be connected to some man already in the franchise.

Daisy Ridley has even expressed her frustration with the Rey’s lineage debate multiple times, “I love that Rey is such a great character, they’re like: ‘No, no, she has to be… she has to be-’She’s her own person! Let her be her guys, let her live."

Exactly! Why did people care so much? Maybe initially, it was fun to hypothesize. However, once the reveal came out people actually liked that she was fresh, a brand new start instead of just nostalgia, or, a way to continue on a males legacy. We have Ben Solo for that, or, at least we did.

More than a shocking twist created just to subvert expectations, the Rey “no one” reveal encapsulated The Last Jedi’s perfect message – anyone could be the hero of their own story.  Rey’s realization was that her heritage don’t matter ... all that matters is who she chooses to be now. Rey’s legacy didn't need to be defined by Luke or Leia, which would leave her free to start her own story - hell, Star Wars to have a future. On the other end was Ben/Kylo Ren, who did come from the mighty Skywalker family and hailed as the son of heroes and wanted to escape that legacy.

Then here comes JJ "Nostalgia Kind" Abrams and Chris Terrio. Terrio here “We also thought that Rey’s arc cannot be finished after Episode VIII. You can leave Episode VIII and say, “Well, now, Rey is content. She’s discovered her parents aren’t Skywalkers, or whatever, and that’s fine.” But so much of her personal story was about where she came from, what kept her on Jakku all those years and the trauma that shaped her. We see quite strongly in Episode VII that something mysterious and troubling happened to her. Although she did get some answers in Episode VIII, we didn’t feel that that story was over. We felt that there were still more questions in Rey’s head about where she came from and where she was going. So, that was the other big idea that we had to address in this film. Rian’s answer to, “What’s the worst news that Rey could receive?” was that she comes from junk traders, and that’s true. She does come from junk traders; we didn’t contradict that.” No, you just went back to what you wanted in the beginning.

By the end Rey takes on not only the Skywalker name but she looks over two suns which brings me to the point of this essay...... if Ben wasn't going to be there, then she should have taken last name. Rey Solo.

What's irritating about LucasFilm/Disney is their desire to appease everyone. I don't give a damn about the antis, nor should they. Reylos were a big support group for the films and mightily invested. TROS came off as trying to please everyone. If we really think about, with the exception of the end of Exegol, the Rey and Kylo interactions lacked depth and intimacy. Perhaps it's just not the style of JJ Abrams and Chris Terrio, who did support the pairing.

While I'm 100% convinced Reylo was planned, all the creators seemed very open to adjusting if it wasn't working. Hence why Finn and Poe were both open considerations, especially Finn. I don’t think Adam or Daisy intentionally played up any sexual tension in their scenes together to give us an impression about something in TFA.  I think it just happened.  Early bird Reylos picked up on it.  Some critics, including the one who wrote the TFA review for Time magazine, picked up on it. Rian Johnson picked up on it too and the rest is history.

Leia’s behavior's is odd for entire decades. Being a trained Jedi herself, she could have taught her son - instead she sent him to his uncle( Oh wait, that was a retcon). Han was either helping with the Resistance or off doing something shady. From the novels we learn that Ben heard his parents arguing and talking about him like he was a monster ever since he was a child, and that when he was sent away this seemed to confirm to him that something was wrong with him and had to be fixed. (From the novels we also learn that he actually had no ambition to become a Jedi and wanted to be a pilot - true Skywalker and also Solo that he is -, but he had no say in the matter.)

For both Ben and Rey, their journey is about letting go of childhood trauma and discovering their own independence. Ultimately it's about their pairing being both emotionally healing AND a balance in the force. They are a DYAD after all. I saw all this to say, he is her closest personal connection and impact through the 3 films. Leia is her master but we don't see that, it happened off camera.

Terrio says that the decision to have Rey take on the name “Skywalker” was a way to show that “you can choose your ancestry.” Which is not true and also a strange thing to say considering.

Which brings me to the correction of this tricky trail. Pay Adam Driver want he wants and reunite the dyad.

[darklinaforever]

So, I don't deny that Ohsmir is his own ship different from Reylo. This is definitely the case. Acolyte knew how to create his own story for this relationship.

But as I said, beyond being a bit the same archetype of couple and therefore having inevitable similarities, what I mean is that just like Reylo exists thanks to Bastila & Revan while being his own thing, Oshmir exists thanks to Reylo while being his own thing (although for me, they should stop using the Kylo Ren / Ben Solo theme song for Qimir and just create one especially for him...)

Do you understand ?

People complain about the comparison to Reylo, but it's pretty inevitable in the end with this context.

Especially with those who allow themselves to continue to spit on Reylo to put Oshmir on a false footing.

Disliking Reylo and liking Oshmir is completely valid.

But consciously spitting on Reylo to raise Oshmir, when without Reylo, this ship would probably not exist as such, that cannot be done. It's inappropriate.

And again, I have not spoken of those who now allow themselves to spit again on the physique of Adam Driver and prize that of Massy Jacinto.

It's simply disgusting.

Also, I maintain, for me the Star Wars postlogy was very good written until the Rise of Skywalker where they decided to screw up all the character arcs built / set up in the other 2 movies.

Honestly, I'm disappointed, I thought Oshmir would be an opportunity to bring the Reylo stans and other Star Wars fans together again, and in the end, some Oshmir stans are still waging war with the Reylo stans, and I don't understand why.

In the end, we are all in the same side.

Literally I already see antis emerging with the same arguments as for Reylo, and let's not talk about those who object to the swimming scene just as was the case for the shirtless force bond scene of Kylo Ren / Ben Solo in The Last Jedi... (It's crazy to see how angry people get over nothing... 🙄)