#lbd complains

[eldritchlittleblackdragon]

It should be illegal for health insurance companies to not tell you how much you're going to owe for a medical procedure or doctor visit or whatever and whether they'll cover it or not until MONTHS after you got it done. It's fucking atrocious they're allowed to do this.

You're telling me you just now got around to telling me how much for a doctor's visit I had. EIGHT. FUCKING. MONTHS. ago after months and months of crickets. Unacceptable.

[shmreduplication]

one interesting thing about reading Pride & Prejudice in 2019 and then watching LBD is that both Lizzie's can say the same stuff about Darcy but only LBD's Lizzie sounds like she's mocking an autistic man

Like a wealthy british man in the past not using the politeness scripts that you're supposed to use at parties is just like. Yeah ok, he's wealthy enough that he doesn't need to care if he comes off as rude when he's not using the politeness scripts. And people who are wealthy and/or british and/or men and/or in the past all kinda come off as a bit rude to me no matter what ykwim. "He's too stuffy" is imo a complaint you can make at any time about any wealthy british man in the past and it will be accurate

A wealthy american man in the present, well them I expect to have a much more positive-stereotype-of-a-frat-bro kind of vibe. Think of the wealthy men in Gilmore Girls, they're quick to shake a hand and remember a name and ask questions about people. The boyfriends in the show who are not wealthy are much slower to reach that level of familiarity when they meet new people. Uh what's a more contemporary example? Johnny Rose from Schitt's Creek and Tahani from The Good Place are also the quickest to be friendly to someone's face on those shows.

So Lizzie going on and on about how much Darcy breaks social scripts like not dancing or talking very much at parties, talking only to the one person he knows rather than trying to get to know new people is like. Girl sometimes people have diagnoses and symptoms that are not a personal slight against you so learn to expect it and let it go. Meet people where they're at. You're getting a degree in mass communication, surely it's been on a test or something that different people communicate differently????

[imminent-danger-came]

I think what I love about the 3x14 "To pain" scene so much is that it's not as much about the Lady Bone Demon and MK being motivated from the same place, as it is that their intent doesn't matter. It's full on doomed by the narrative—trying to do right or wrong, it all only leads to one thing: to pain. That's the inevitable end. Both MK and LBD "fight for what they think is right", but they're also both doomed to cause more suffering, and that's what makes them similar.

LBD thought she could end all suffering if she created a clean slate, and MK thought HE could end all suffering if he just stopped LBD, or Spider Queen, or DBK. But that isn't possible. You can't prevent pain, or change past mistakes, or fix the world. All you can do is move forward. And you can still love a world filled with pain and suffering. You can still love people who cause pain and suffering.

[nekohime19]

Macaque study # S2

Alright, let's go for Macaque analysis in season 2!!

After Macaque's introduction episode we got a pretty one-dimensional frame with a very manipulative villain who got some past with the Monkey King. This is our impression of Macaque, and the fact he's cool (at least that's my impression).

Shadow powers are cool and Macaque animation, imagery, soundtrack and fight sequences are very cool!

Let's see what season 2 brings to this one dimensional frame. Do we get to see some nuances already? Or is he still the same villain?

Season 2 ep7

Season 2 is the continuation of season 1 in the sense that the show keeps its episodic nature and keeps introducing MK's new powers, even if we do have an underlying plot with LBD.

Macaque appears in episode 7 (“Shadow Play”) which already by the title, if you remember Macaque gimmick in s1, you can get an inkling about who's gonna be the focus here without watching the episode in itself. But what is interesting this time is that MK's friends are involved with Macaque. Whereas in season 1 Macaque's episode was focused on MK, Wukong and Macaque and the other characters only made a brief one minute apparition, this time more of the main cast is here!

What I think is interesting from the start is, very much like s1 ep8, the episode starts with MK having a confrontation. This time it's not with Wukong but with Mei and Tang who mainly complain about how MK don't spend much time with them anymore. It's interesting how Macaque's episodes in s1 and s2 always start with MK arguing with the people he cares about and somehow creating a wedge between him and those people. In s1, Macaque used the wedge and tried to widen it, we'll see what he does about the wedge this time.

Also, even as a joke, I think it was so funny to have this parallel :

Wukong being the action-phased movie and Macaque the more traditional theater play is such a funny contrast. It goes with what they're portraying of themselves to others really.

What I really like about this episode is how Macaque's aesthetic with the shadows is emphasized, the animation really delves deeper in the unsettling, almost creepy feels of the shadows. We got doors that close by themselves, things that move in the dark and under the seats, puppets that move by themselves. We really dig into the horror movie aesthetic with this one and even the characters feel it, they're scared of this.

Macaque without even being on the screen yet already puts the mood. What I find interesting is that contrary to other villains like LBD who are naturally scary because of the way they are Macaque is scary because of what he's doing with his shadows, because of the shows he creates. Without the moving shadows, the doors which close by themselves, Macaque is not that scary, by that I mean the way he's animated, the way he carries himself is not as scary as let's say LBD. Macaque put on a show to be scary. In my opinion, that shows how Macaque put on a mask to be something he's really not, to appear as a villain when in reality he's way more nuanced than that. He's acting. In s1 he was acting and lying the whole time, acting like a hero in front of MK, acting like Wukong's comments didn't bother him during the final confrontation.

He's always acting. And he keeps doing so in s2. You can see in both seasons he's smiling a lot but in the later season his smile will be more and more rare, making you wonder if this cruel smile he had since the beginning is also just a part of the act. I'll go back to Macaque's smile in s3 bc oh boy this monkey smiles a lot even when he's tortured by LBD.

Now, let's talk about the shadow play and what we can get out of it, and what it means.

The first part of the shadow play :

Macaque : Welcome viewers to a shadow play the likes of which have never been seen. It follows the tragic tale of a legendary warrior and how those who bring light in this world inevitably bring darkness to those they hold dear. Like light heroes bring warmth, hope and friendship but they also give life to the darkness.

So, a lot to unpack already.

First the fact that Macaque qualifies Wukong as a “legendary warrior” when the word “warrior” is more or less reserved to Macaque, makes you wonder if in this particular sentence Macaque is not talking about Wukong but himself. “It follows the tragic tale of a legendary warrior and how those who bring light in this world inevitably bring darkness to those they hold dear.”, if we go with the interpretation that the legendary warrior here is Macaque (despite the image showing Wukong) then the connotation “tragic tale” makes more sense, considering Macaque perspective is skewed and he will sees what happened to him as “tragic”and it is less likely for him to qualify what happened to Wukong as “tragic” when he has so much trouble recognizing what Wukong endured in the first place.

Of course, the mention of light and darkness is a reference for both Wukong and Macaque. Macaque is always insisting on how Wukong is not perfect, how the hero is not flawless, how light cannot exist without darkness. Macaque wants to destroy this image of the flawless hero Wukong portrayed for so long but he does not take into account that mayhaps this image wasn't created by Wukong himself but by the people around him. And perhaps, in a way, he tries to connect himself to Wukong by saying that light and darkness goes hand in hand, even if unconsciously.

The mention of “those who bring light in this world inevitably brings darkness to those they hold dear” is, I think , a very salty line. It's the world vs loved one conflict for heroes. The “I'll sacrifice you for the world” type of thing that I think Macaque is very salty about. Wukong chose the world instead of him. On the contrary Macaque is personally more of a “I'll sacrifice the world for you” type, and that's why he's so salty about this. There is a clear confrontation between the terms “world” and “those they hold dear”, Macaque is putting “bringing darkness” to the heroes' loved ones as a consequence of “bringing light to the world”. For him it's inevitable, which speaks volume of how he thinks his relationship with Wukong went, he's putting the blame on what happened between them on Wukong hero status.

The idea that Macaque said of heroes giving life to the darkness is clearly an implicit way to say that Wukong created him. Which is not wrong, if we go with the interpretation that Wukong killed Macaque, but Macaque is denying so much of what Wukong lived through right now. His perspective is really skewed.

Macaque : The hero and the warrior were like the sun and the moon. Their light a protective glow shining upon the world. Together there was nothing that could stop the two of them. Either in the celestial realms or on earth. As time went on the hero attained power beyond comprehension as the hero’s light grew so too did his shadow and soon the warrior was cast in that shadow. In the darkness the warrior was forgotten by the hero.

Again, a lot to unpack. Macaque stops trauma dumping through theater.

Clearly, Macaque's view of his past relationship with Wukong is very unhealthy. He qualifies them as the “sun” and the “moon”, as two being in perfect harmony. We can see how the “world” is separated from this balanced duo. Macaque, in his head, didn't need anyone but Wukong. They were two beings against the rest. It was Macaque and Wukong against the world. The brotherhood is not even mentioned which spoke volumes about how Macaque felt, he never valued the brotherhood, we'll see that more in s4. What causes the imbalance between the hero and the warrior is “power”. I think we can easily agree that Macaque is talking about Wukong's search for immortality and the battle against the Jade Emperor. Wukong's search for power broke the balance between Macaque and Wukong. Again Macaque mentions the darkness and how Wukong casted him there, I think it's a lil unfair to say this because Macaque was naturally placing himself in Wukong's shadow already (but we'll see that in s4 again). We can see Macaque's fear here : being forgotten by Wukong. And I think he still has this fear inside of him and perhaps that's one of the reasons why he tries to get Wukong's attention so much by taunting him and trying to rile him up.

Also, calling someone the “sun”obviously speaks volumes about how much you admire this person. You can't call someone the sun without at least putting them on some sort of pedestal (perhaps it's because I love shadowpeach but I see some romantic implications in there, but again you do you).

In between the shadow play we can see how Wukong's absence is putting pressure on MK, he believe he sees Wukong when in reality it's just one of Macaque's shadows.

After the play, we have a montage of MK being miserable with the shadowplay going in loop in the background, MK is relating to the warrior.

This shot of MK touching his shadow is clearly a way to convey how MK relates to the warrior casted in the shadows. Monkey King leaving makes MK feel as if he's inadequate, MK deals with a lot of insecurities about this, about being right and worthy and it pushes him away from his friends.

When Macaque confronts MK and MK realizes that, yes, it was Macaque all along, what I find interesting is that once again Macaque brings Wukong in the conversation. Saying how now that Wukong is not here Macaque should teach MK a lesson. Macaque cannot help himself but brings Wukong into this even when Wukong is not here. There is also the “one and only” line that Macaque uses to reveal himself, a call back to Wukong's “one and only” line in the pilot episode when he introduced himself.

After this, Macaque and MK fight and once again the choreography of the fight is so cool. But once again, Macaque is stealing so much of the spotlight. He cannot help but comment on everything even when he's not in the frame, his voice is always ringing. Really, each time we got a scene with Macaque this guy is at the center of it, he's acting, and he's acting so good he grabs your attention.

Now what Macaque says is pretty self explanatory : MK is abandoning his friends. The “classic hero manœuvre” comment really shows how bitter Macaque is about heroes because of what happened with Wukong.

Now, while there are parallels between Macaque and Wukong, there are also a lot between Wukong and MK.

First the way they're both pressed down by shadow clones and uses golden vision to escape :

Second is when MK pounced on Macaque. The images used here are actually also used in season 5 during the very brief flashbacks we get about Wukong and Macaque fight.

So while Macaque's lesson is more than shady, there is some basis of truth in his accusations. MK really ressemble Wukong on a lot of things. They both really care about the people they love and will do anything for them. Wukong lost himself with this purpose and in some very asshole-y way Macaque is trying to prevent this with MK.

What I think is also interesting to consider in this episode is if Macaque planned this so-called lesson or if he simply took the opportunity when he saw MK and his friends and perhaps eavesdropped on their conversation at the beginning of the episode (where MK's friends were complaining about MK distancing himself). We know the team went to the Shadow Play because they saw a poster. The play was always going to be about the “hero and the warrior” considering the illustration on the poster. But did Macaque manipulate them into coming or was it just a lucky coincidence is never really answered. At the beginning of the episode we see other people in the theater so I might be inclined to think it was a coincidence. Would Macaque really create a whole shadow play and advertise it to the town just for teaching a lesson to MK? If Macaque simply took the opportunity to teach MK a lesson it might explain why he feels so confusing in this episode : the lesson was not planned but the result of an impulsive action after hearing that MK was distancing himself from his friends and perhaps seeing the shadow of Wukong in his behavior. In fact, Macaque might not even know why he's doing this but hides it really well.

MK also has some flashbacks of LBD during the fight with Macaque, while I think it's a form of PTSD I also suppose it could mean the way Macaque took away his friends and are controlling them reminds him of LBD and the underlying fear of LBD doing the same thing.

What confuses MK and us as an audience and makes us think : Okay maybe Macaque wasn't doing this just to be a jerk. Is when Macaque blocks MK's staff. He could have easily won here but instead he chose to stand down and free MK's friends which is a very confusing thing to do for a supposed villain.

Even MK doesn't understand Macaque's motivations.

In truth, Macaque never really gave away his motivations even if we can heavily speculate about it. The only thing he says is : “I kinda wanted to do the whole watching the hero be tormented by their own mistakes thing but seems like you’re already doing this by yourself”. But if Macaque's only goal was to torment MK then why would he talk about “potential”.

Macaque (at the end of the fight) : you're right, that is enough. You know you really are that bit too much like him but it's good to see that there is some potential.

I think this line betrays Macaque's true intentions, it's not all about tormenting MK (even if he pretends it is minutes after the “potential line”) it's about MK not taking the same path as Wukong, if it’s out of care for MK or out of fear of another Wukong being created is still debatable.

Unlike in s1 where Macaque used the wedge between Wukong and MK to his advantage and tried to widen it, here instead Macaque is trying to make MK realize the wedge between him and his friends, no matter how badly and how asshole-y he does it.

It's perhaps here that MK realizes Macaque is a more confusing individual than he initially thought and that's why he goes after him even after getting his friends back. MK is still very snarky with Macaque but there is some sort of comprehension when he points out how Macaque was the warrior in the story. Macaque even warns MK about LBD in his own very ambiguous way, he even does a call back to s1 with the “You can never have too many teachers” line, again a lil spite directed towards Wukong when Wukong is not even here.

I think this is a very important detail, MK realizing Macaque is confusing and maybe not as one-dimensional as he thought he was. It's important for MK and for the audience.

Macaque said there is some potential in MK, well when you see this episode you say to yourself maybe there is some potential in Macaque too, to become better.

While Macaque is still very much a jerk AND a villain here, he also show us more complexity, more subtlety than what we thought him capable of. Yes. Macaque trapped MK's friends in his lantern. Yes. His lesson was downright terrible and not very well-planned (probably because it was an impulsive act). Yes. Him playing with MK's mind, taking on Wukong's appearances, is very wrong and I am NOT denying that. BUT, as I am not denying Macaque being an asshole, you cannot deny Macaque being confusing, being more than one-dimensional. You cannot deny him not finishing MK off when he had the occasion. You cannot deny his convoluted warning about LBD at the end of the episode. You cannot deny the shadowplay and what it might imply with his relationship with Wukong, adding more depth about his character (even if the perspective is skewed).

Macaque is an asshole there, but I don't think he's a rotten apple.

At the end of the episode the not-mayor comes to get Macaque. Again I think this scene is pretty telling on Macaque's relationship with LBD.

The purple who was the dominant color quickly turns blue to indicate that Macaque is not in control anymore despite this being his domain, his episode. In image 2, the smile Macaque has can fool you if you don't see the lil sweat on his forehead, this is a sign of nervousness. For the first time since we have been introduced to Macaque in LMK, Macaque is nervous. Macaque wasn't nervous against Wukong yet he is right now. He's afraid. The fact that Macaque is smiling as a sign of nervousness really hints you already about his coping mechanism. It'll be more relevant and more present in s3 but it is interesting to notice how Macaque works to keep fear at bay (I'll talk more about it in s3).

The not-mayor strangles Macaque. I would like to insist on this form of violence. Strangling. No. Clearly Macaque is not willing to go with the not-mayor. And everyone telling me otherwise didn't watch the same show. Violence is a core element of Macaque relationship with LBD, and we cannot talk about Macaque in season 3 without talking about this. But I'll get back to this in S3.

So what can we say about this episode? We learned a lot about Macaque's feelings for Wukong and their past relationship, at least what he thought happened. And while Macaque still acts like a villain, he does show potential for being better. Showing this potential is really important for the redemption processus, because without these tiny hints of Macaque hidden goodness, or at least the start of goodness within him, the redemption wouldn't have felt genuine.

The use of colors, blue background/blue not-mayor and purple Macaque, really showcase Macaque lack of control in this situation. He's not in control anymore, everything around him turned blue. This is an important fact, and of course Macaque not being willing doesn't excuse his actions later in s3. I'm always first to say that trauma doesn't excuse your shitty actions. But I have empathy. And I do think context matters. Circumstances matters. You cannot brush them aside. Yet they are not to be used as an excuse for his behavior either. He's an asshole here. But what interest me is if he's rotten, if he's irredeemable? Is he? I don't think so.

This is a processus. Macaque arc is long. Showing that Macaque is not willing to go, that he's under threat, subjected to violence, is meant to make us understand he's point of view, to understand him better as a character. If you brush this context of violence aside while talking about Macaque then I believe that you are mischaractering him.

Macaque is confusing for MK and for us, but he showed us something there, a spark, as tiny as it is.

He's more nuanced than we thought he was in s1 ep8.

It's a lil step in the grand scheme of things, potential without action is wasted, but the fact that the potential is here is to be noted regardless because it will be important in the redemption processus later on.

Also, I like that in this episode MK has parallels with both Wukong and Macaque. He relates to the warrior (Macaque) and fears that Wukong is leaving him behind, but also MK fights like Wukong and acts a lot like him. It shows how MK is really a merge between the two monkeys, he's not exactly like them, but he has some common traits with both of them, which I think is why he will be greater than the both of them at the end of this. After all, the mentee has to surpass the mentors one day or another.

Like the previous post, this is my interpretation of LMK, you can disagree, no problem!

I'll post Macaque analysis in season 3 in another post.

Previous / Next

[deliveryboysomewhatequaltoheaven]

The Macaque Problem

I would definitely say Macaque's character is an issue for the show. His redemption arc is not good, and it brings down the other characters and takes up their time and arcs.

When we first see him in S1 and 2, he is an old frenemy of Wukong's bitter over an unspecified falling out. He is angry and lashing out at MK and his friends, projecting this feud onto them. He claims MK didn't notice his friends were gone, but we see him trying to call Mei, and that the others were resentful, but we see tang looking upset being forced to attack MK. Seems like a clear enough villain concept with some room forward right? But S3 and 4 derail that.

Chronologically, we can talk about the Brotherhood, (which he was not a part of in JTTW, and he complained abt being left behind in S2 but here he was?? Eh) He claims that Wukong pushed ahead without thinking or listening and that's what got him trapped in the mountain. But what do we see before Wukong surrenders to the Jade Emperor?

The rest of the Brotherhood trapped by the Celestial Army. We don't see Wukong fight the Jade Emperor. He was an immortal shapeshifter, I have no doubt Wukong could have escaped. But he turned himself in to save his friends. Was he in a bad mood in the mountain? I mean, yeah, but Macaque doesn't seem to consider that he's free because Wukong is not.

We still don't know about the final falling out and Macaque's seeming death, though S5 implies that Macaque pushed the situation. Still, it's not good, because if they can't properly resolve it, than it's just going to remain between them and Macaque's grudge against Wukong can't be properly moved past, which hampers his arc.

But then S3 happens, and honestly I think Macaque's motives are dumb. Why is he trying to get in the way of them stopping LBD if he also wants to be free of her? It's a positive for you! But they also start trying to portray him as someone who 'calls Wukong out' because S3 and 4 really try to make Wukong out to be a jerk. He made mistakes but it was a desperate situation against the Lady Bone Demon. I love Mei and Pigsy but they also call him out when they said nothing about the Fourth Ring/visions.

'You will make things worse for MK when I personally attack and threaten him and his loved ones for my own gain' OK Macaque!

But the S3 special is the real kicker. Macaque apparently changes his mind and we don't know why. They show some mistrust at first until MK says he knows Macaque is not a bad guy deep down... but doing one or two helpful things after three seasons of stalking, threatening, and attacking the gang doesn't exactly convince me.

And then this bit from the S3 special finale:

Uh, how??? Wukong is right, Macaque was until very recently willing throw everyone under the bus so he could get away from LBD. It's pretty rich that he would call Wukong self centered. Whatever Wukong did was trying to stop her and protect MK from having to deal with it.

In the S4 special, they also have Macaque talk about Azure Lion, and again I'm not sure why we are listening to him on characters' morality

Says the guy who wrote a play about how 'Sun Wukong is a big old meany who hurt my precious little fee-fees' if I never see or hear the hero and warrior monologue again it will be too soon but I will say he at least seems to consider he might have been wrong, though they don't really dwell on it...

Even in S5, we get this bit.

Once again, Wukong is right!! After 3 seasons of attacking and harassing MK I don't think he really gets to give advice. Plus WUKONG WAS TRYING TO TALK TO MK ABOUT IT RIGHT BEFORE THIS! But MK was not doing well emotionally and Wukong was trying to be mindful and not push!

And honestly I think they all let Macaque off easy for the S3 events, he literally choked out Mei and threatened to kill her! (Sidenote: he can call MK and Tang by their names, but Mei was just 'the girl' throughout S3... urgh)

But when Wukong gets mad at him, Macaque says "I didn't do this!" Well you forced the gang to do something that you didn't know what the consequences of would be! But Tang intervenes saying he did it, even though he awkwardly admits Macaque forced him but that he felt he should because of the golden cicada. Macaque later decides to leave the situation he forced. He later does help some, but doesn't really get held accountable for his part in everything.

But I guess it's fine bc at the end of the special MK gives him this drawing. This is actually kind of really upsetting and again makes little sense considering how much he and Mei care about other otherwise. But nah Macaque is cool now it's fine...

And Ao Guang! This is a tougher one, but in S5 they had Macaque let himself get sent to the Pagoda to buy others time... well I just say that's karma!

And Macaque comes back, of course, but we never hear more about Ao Guang. Even when they send the power of the Stones out, we do in fact see the East Sea Palace and the attendant, but not him, so his fate is unclear.

So yeah, overall, I think he was forgiven too fast, the root issue of his fight with Wukong unaddressed, and he takes up time from the others characters.

[lucagray813]

The Pagoda

Rating: T

Word Count: 4,266

Main Characters: Macaque

Minor Characters: Characters mentioned - Wukong, MK, LBD, Peng

Relationships: Macaque & Wukong, could be interpreted as Macaque/Wukong

Summary: No matter what this prison had in store for him, the Six-Eared Macaque was going to survive.

Additional Tags: Season 5 spoilers, character study, worldbuilding

CW: Implied cannibalism, disturbing food sources, deteriorating mental health, poor self image

Link to AO3 Version

----

The moment Macaque made the decision to play the hero he knew how it was going to end - with him trapped in a prison with no way out. And while outwardly he appeared to be putting his all into keeping Lǐ Jìng's attention on him, on the inside his mind was scrambling.

He knew nothing about the Pagoda and it raised hundreds of questions about what awaited him - would he still have his powers? Would he be confined to a prison cell? Were there guards? If so, would they be as cruel or indifferent as those of the Dìyù?

He found himself creating plans at lightning speed for every possible scenario that he could think of. So when the inevitable happened, his feet had barely touched solid ground before he disappeared into the shadows and found somewhere defensible that he could assess the situation.

He still had his powers - that was good. The only power that predictably didn't work was the ability to portal out of here or grab items from the outside world. Not ideal but limited magic was better than no magic at all.

He made a face as he picked at his prison outfit - everything that he'd had on him was gone and unless he wanted to waste magic on a purely aesthetic glamour then this was his new look for the foreseeable.

Wonderful.

It was the least of his problems though. A couple floors down, in the room he had materialised in, he could hear a group of demons complaining that the fresh meat had already scarpered and were making plans to look for him.

He needed to learn the lay of the land and fast - it was a good thing recon was his speciality.

----

The Pagoda was a lawless, demon free-for-all and it was clear that once Lǐ Jìng stuffed someone in here, he never gave them a second thought. There were no guards, there were no deliveries of food or supplies, the only thing that ever entered the Pagoda were more prisoners.

The structure itself was designed to be as confusing as possible with doors that connected in illogical ways. But they were generally fixed connections and as such one could theoretically map out the place and navigate it fairly successfully. Thankfully, his shadows made light work of traversing the building.

There was no day and night cycle, the lighting and temperature only changed if there were demons around with the ability to manipulate them. It made it difficult to track the passing of time but even if that hadn't been a problem, there was the more worrying concern that the days in here weren't passing at the same rate as they were in the outside world.

For all he knew, a day here could be a year outside or vice versa and, while he honestly wasn't sure what would be worse, he tried not to dwell on it - nothing he could do about it after all.

The only basic necessity that the Pagoda offered was water but the sources were numbered and predictably they were guarded fiercely by whatever demon had managed to claim it.

There was a surprisingly large number of demons here given how infrequently new prisoners joined the ranks and especially considering that other demons were the primary food source available.

That might be owed to the impressive diversity in demons however - not all of them fed off of meat. Some of them fed off of magic, some of them fed on the Pagoda itself - eating through the self-healing floors and walls and some fed off of emotions and that was only to name a few. Some of them didn't seem to need to eat at all or perhaps only needed to eat infrequently.

Those that needed to eat meat were seemingly at a disadvantage but aside from hunting their fellow inmates there were other options available to them. There were a few varieties of demons that could produce something of nutritional value - some could regenerate limbs quickly and so, if they had a tolerance for pain, could provide flesh, others laid eggs, some secreted highly nutritious substances, some demons were part plant and others could transform magic or other materials into food.

Any demon that could provide some semblance of food was highly sought after and generally they were either in servitude to a more powerful demon or they were a powerful demon themselves that could name their price.

Since coming back to life, he had greedily consumed a number of immortal peaches, stolen from Wukong's personal supply, and so the risk of starving to death was almost negligible but that didn't mean he didn't need to eat.

Unfortunately, the heavenly peaches were not a full proof method of immortality on their own, as he well knew. They only worked properly if the one eating them was born of heaven, had gained enlightenment or had obtained one of the other "approved" methods of immortality.

If you didn't fit any of those criteria, then while the peaches could certainly do a lot for you, you wouldn't experience the full extent of their benefits. And he, of course, did not fit the bill. As such, compared, to say, Wukong - he didn't heal as quickly, he could only survive a couple of days without his head or his organs, and eventually his body still suffered the effects of hunger and thirst even if they took a long time to kill him.

Wukong didn't need to eat - he just did it because he enjoyed it. But he did - he might not die of starvation or dehydration soon but a lack of food and water would see his mind and body deteriorate and he couldn't afford to be slow or sluggish here. One wrong move could see him dead or worse.

Thankfully, as well as expert on recon he was also a master thief and it hadn't taken him long to determine the safest sources to steal from and when and how to do it.

His strategy for survival was for no-one to ever realise he was here. His ears and shadows ensured he was always out of sight of another demon and he played it safe - if he even suspected someone had a way to sense him then he stayed well clear.

He had learnt who most of the big players were.

Down in the depths of the Pagoda, for example, was a demon that had transformed several floors into a swamp of sorts - if you were a water demon then really you're only shot at survival was to swear allegiance to her. She seemed largely benevolent but given the way that other demons avoided her territory like the plague he had a feeling she was very capable of defending it.

Likewise, there were some elemental demons that had transformed large sections of the Pagoda - there were areas where the floors never stopped burning or where the air was suffocatingly cold. Those responsible for such huge environmental changes were often surrounded by loyal demons that thrived in those conditions.

A little disturbingly, there were one or two demon clans that seemed to have lived in the Pagoda for generations - almost all the living members having been born and raised here. The outside world little more than a myth.

One of these clans seemed to have figured out how to stop the Pagoda from repairing itself. Their territory shaped to their liking - walls and floors torn down to accomodate them. He suspected it had something to do with seals but it wasn't worth the risk to find out.

There were a couple other places where the structure couldn't repair itself. In some places, his best guess was that there had been an unbelievably powerful explosion of magic that had done damage beyond repair but in most cases it was simply because it was destroyed again before it could even try to fix itself.

There was something oddly amusing about the grunts of various clans or gangs that had the arduous job of going around and remarking their territory - recarving symbols into walls and doors. Less amusing were the truly giant demons that took up entire floors all to themselves - walls shattering at the slightest undulating.

Despite all the demons and their various territories there were seemingly an infinite number of floors that existed. He could reach the bottom but no matter how far he climbed he couldn't reach the top.

There was some appeal to climbing higher as it was significantly less populated but there was also little to no food and some of the demons that were up here were not ones he wanted to pick a fight with.

Generally, he spent as much time as he could on an empty upper floor and only made the trek down to eat. Although, very quickly another problem was making itself known. As he'd more or less perfected his survival strategy, he now had time to spare and it was both stressful and boring.

He had too much time to think and not enough to distract him - and it was a dangerous combination. His thoughts were less than kind on a good day and there was a real risk that he would go to dangerous lengths not to be left alone with them.

Eavesdropping and spying was just the thing for recon but to do it just for entertainment? That was the kind of stupid move that got you killed but what else was there to do? Make a friend? Oh sure, why not just go around the house and offer to put on some shadow plays while he was at it?

... A shadow play.

He looked at the wall nearest to him and let the shadows start to take shape. You know, he had been meaning to get back into theatre, maybe now was the time to plan out his next show for when he got out of here.

If he got out of here...

No. He physically shook himself, he couldn't let himself start to think like that. Wukong would... The kid. The kid wouldn't leave him here. He was too much of a goody-two shoes not to save someone that had sacrificed themselves for him. The hows didn't bear thinking about - the kid could do the impossible. He was going to get out of here, he didn't need to worry about that.

This was exactly why he couldn't give himself time to think. He had to find something to keep him busy. Shadow plays were a good start but he could do more - he was sure he could figure out how to make some paper and ink from the resources available and really dedicate himself to planning out his new show. Hell, maybe he could even figure out how to make some instruments and write some music.

The plan had evolved past just surviving, he now had to make sure he didn't lose his mind while he was waiting to be freed. He was going to have to find ways to live here for the foreseeable.

----

Focusing on his craft was going a long way to keep him sane but he couldn't stop himself from lingering where other demons were. He told himself he needed to be aware of any dangerous developments, of any new players entering the prison, or of shifting territories in order to keep himself safe but he knew deep down what the real reason was.

He found himself wondering what he would do when he finally gave up hope on being rescued - would he go mad? He'd seen a couple of lone demons that seemed to have done just that roaming the upper floors. Maybe he would ally himself to one of the demon lords? The witch on the bottom floor swamp seemed like a safe bet...

Perhaps he would be a free agent - offering his services to whoever could pay for them? What he would charge he didn't know. Or maybe he could spin his own little web and be the one pulling all the strings? He could become king of the whole Pagoda.

He scoffed. It was too early for him to be contemplating giving up and going mad with power. It had only been... A few months?

It was impossible to tell. He was sort of going by the day and night routine the demon clan with the power to stop the Pagoda from repairing itself had set up. They used some sort of magic to darken and lighten their territory and while it was very unlikely to be accurate it was the best he had to go on.

His own sleep schedule didn't help. He tended to sleep in small, restless bursts. Always alert for trouble.

His mind drifted to thoughts of home. It didn't matter where he slept on the island, the monkeys would find him. They had a terrible habit of piling on him while he slept and it made for the worst night's sleep. Before being trapped here, he had gotten into the unfortunate position where he couldn't sleep with them and he couldn't sleep without them.

He felt his mood dip. He hoped they were okay and that this whole end of the world business hadn't found it's way to Flower Fruit Mountain's shores. Hopefully Wukong had left them a clone or something to make sure they were taken care of.

If he hadn't already returned that was.

Maybe the world had already been saved and everything had gone back to how it should be.

He pushed the thought to the back of his mind and instead wondered if the monkeys would like the show he was putting together. He was sure they would but they weren't overly concerned with a coherent narrative - they liked it when things were flashy and dramatic.

He closed his eyes and imagined the sort of show they would put on - it made him smile and caused a terrible longing in his chest. His hand twitched but safe in his isolation he gave into his weakness.

He opened his eyes to see shadow clones perfectly shaped like the monkeys, and when one climbed onto his lap and he pretended not to notice that it lacked the weight and heat of a living creature. Just like he pretended not to notice that they were silent in a way the monkeys had never been in their lives.

In his head, he could hear them as they responded to the dramatic little shadow play he put on for them. He kept their company until he fell asleep curled under them.

He woke up alone.

----

His shadows sometimes took shape without his permission, took the shape of people he knew, people who's voices rang loud and clear in his head. At first, he'd just ignored them but increasingly he found himself engaging with them, arguing with the silence.

He closed his eyes as he felt Peng take shape beside him but their mocking tone could not be ignored, "There really is no length you won't go to for him, is there?"

"I didn't do it for him. The world is ending - between the two of us he was the better option to-"

Peng sneered, "You've had how long to think up your excuses and that's the best you could come up with? You think his brute strength would have been more useful than your shadows in the search for the stones? We both know that the world was the last thing on your mind. You heard his screams, saw him lying there and all you could think of was how to make it stop."

He said nothing.

Peng scoffed, "Pathetic. Truly pathetic. After everything he's done you're still his loyal little dog." They leaned down to speak into his ear, "That's all you've ever been to him - a useful pet. And what happened the moment you stopped being useful? What happened when you stopped being obedient and amusing? And still you go crawling back to him! Ready to roll over at the first hint that he feels anything even remotely-"

The shadows dispersed as his fist found their face. As his hand trembled he lamented that he'd never had the opportunity to do the same to the real Peng.

--

The Lady Bone Demon liked to play her games - flashing in and out of existence around him as her voice echoed, "It's tragic but some of us truly aren't destined for anything more than a life in chains."

Ignore her.

"You are the perfect example of that tragedy - literally and figuratively you just can't escape them. Worse yet, you don't even want to."

Ignore her.

"No matter how many times you "free" yourself, you always go running back to your old master."

He whipped around to face her and snapped, "He's not my master! I don't belong to him! I never have! We're- I mean, we were-"

She smiled condescendingly at him, "Friends? Come now, you know better. He calls himself your king and you think he considers you his equal? You are but one of his subjects."

He stumbled through his retort, "That's not- It... Even if it was like that before, it's not like that now!"

She laughed and then cooed, "Oh? What's changed? Certainly not you. Here you are trapped and you're still consumed by thoughts of him."

He closed his eyes tightly as he clasped his hands over his ears, "I have changed. And so has he. It's not the same."

Her parting words echoed in his head, "I have seen your very soul, Six-Eared Macaque. We both know that deep down you haven't changed - you still cling to a dream of forever. A single promise more effective than any of the literal chains that have held you."

He let himself sink to the floor and curl tightly into a ball as he tried to drown out the truth.

--

MK was the kindest of the apparitions that haunted him, but his forced optimism did little to soothe him.

"Don't you worry, Macaque! I am all over this! I'll save the world and then we'll have another epic jailbreak sequence!" His confidence wavered, "Er, I don't know exactly how yet but I'll figure something out! I always do!"

MK squirmed under his scrutiny and he couldn't help but ask, "Why?"

Misunderstanding MK responded, "Well, because I don't know how to get you out yet? But I bet Nezha knows! We just need to convince him that-"

"No. Why would you save me?"

He looked perplexed, "What are you talking about? You're one of the good guys! You don't deserve to be in prison! I know you like to do your whole "I'm not a hero" shtick but you've literally helped us save the world, like, three times!"

He slumped against the wall, "Ah, so I'm useful. That's why, huh? Guess you're more like him than I gave you credit."

"What! That's not even anywhere near what I said! That's-"

"Face it, kid. You just have a misplaced sense of guilt - you just want to do the "right" thing. You don't actually care about me, you don't even know me. Trust me, if you did, you'd know I belonged here."

He looked hurt but Macaque dismissed the shadow before he could even reply.

--

Wukong was never kind. He tsked as he walked around, "You call this a prison? This is nothing - you basically have all the freedom you want and still you're just sitting around here moping."

He sneered, "A prison's still a prison. Don't forget I'm here because of you."

Wukong's tail lashed agitatedly as he glared at him, "I never asked you to play the hero! If you had just let me get caught I would have already busted out! Don't think I'm going to go out of my way to get you out of here!"

He raised his voice, "As if I expected you to! I know better than to rely on you!"

"Excuse me? I'm the unreliable one? When have you ever come through for me? You know what? I'm glad you're locked up in here! This way I don't even have to look at you! I can finally forget all about you!"

He felt his eyes burn, "I was just thinking the same thing. I don't need you to save me - this isn't a prison, it's an opportunity. I'm as far from you as I could possibly get, I can start over here. I'll finally be free."

Wukong scoffed, "What you going to do? Sign up as some demon lords lackey? Way to shake things up." He then laughed cruelly, "Or were you thinking of making some friends? As if anyone has ever bothered with you if they hadn't known you were with me. Face it, without me you have nothing!"

"Shut up!"

His magic pulsed dangerously, dispelling the shadow. For a moment all he could focus on was the turbulent emotions roiling in his chest but he snapped back to reality quickly when he realised he had telegraphed his location - he had to move.

--

Possibly the worst shape the shadows took however was of himself. Perched lazily beside him, he drawled, "You know, no matter whose metric you're judged by, no matter the judge or jury, you'd still be found guilty. There's not a soul alive that wouldn't agree you deserve to be here."

He said nothing but predictably his shadow didn't need his participation.

"We've got some time - how about we review?" He started to count off in his fingers, "You escaped the Dìyù - that's a big no-no, teamed up with the Lady Bone Demon - who you knew wanted to take over the world, tortured some innocent kid just for having a connection to your old buddy, Wukong."

The shadow crowed, "Oh and Wukong! Can't forget about him! He's long since been redeemed and you just can't stand the sight of it. So what do you do? Ha! What didn't you do? Attack him, destroy his stuff, sabotage his relationships... Oh! You tried to set the island on fire that one time!"

He snapped, "I didn't go through with it! I stopped it before anyone could ever tell what had happened!"

His shadow smiled, "You still did it though. You still wanted to hurt him so badly that you'd considered destroying the only home you've ever known to do it. Now if that's not the makings of a monster then I don't know what is."

He bowed his head and muttered, "I'm not that person anymore. I don't want to hurt him."

"Oh well that changes everything, doesn't it? You've turned over a new leaf - no comeuppance required! Good thing you stopped me before I could start on the list of atrocities from your heydays, eh? All that war and torture, the lies and deceit - I'm sure your many victims are all relieved to hear you've mended all your ways."

He grit his teeth, "It was more complicated than that."

"Was it? Every single time it was "more complicated than that"? You never got a thrill destroying kingdoms with well timed whispers? You never relished in the bloodshed? Don't act as if you've never considered putting those old skills to good use in here. To show them all what you're capable of. Ha! Could you imagine if the rescue party finally shows up and they see you for what you really are? Oh, the looks on their faces would be priceless!"

The shadow continued, "Even if you do resist the temptation - I doubt they'd be impressed with your hero work. How many times could you have intervened in someone's suffering and instead turned a blind eye?"

"I'm doing what I have to to survive."

"You keep telling yourself that. See if you can look the others in the eye and tell them the same thing. Not that they're coming though, right? How long's it been now? Got to be pushing the year mark at least, if not longer."

"A year could be a day there."

"How long you willing to cling to hope? Same as last time? Because five hundred years and you had nothing to show for it but a missing eye and an empty grave."

He couldn't answer.

----

Rumours were circulating around some of the lower levels - apparently the Hundred-Eyed Demon was awake once more and he was someone to be feared.

He only resurfaced every so often to feed off memories before hiding away again to sleep it off. From what he gathered there was no way for you to break yourself free of his spell - you just had to hope someone else was close by and willing to help.

He didn't seem interested in climbing too far up the Pagoda at least - the more densely populated areas his preferred stomping grounds. Easy enough to avoid then, he'd just stay on the upper floors until he went back to sleep - sounded like it should only take a few weeks by the day and night cycle routine he was going off of.

That was the plan at least until the Monkey King's name rippled through the Pagoda at an unprecedented pace.

This better be his rescue party or so help him, Wukong was never going to hear the end of this.

--End--

LMK Fanfic Masterlist

[digitaldoeslmk]

thinking about the variations of a redemption arc, but Buddhism style

LBD: wanted a chance deep down, but now that she got it, she'll complain about it the whole time

Mayor: saw the errors of his way and is genuinely trying his best

Red Son: got dragged kicking and screaming through every step of the way, but it somehow worked

[lmk-aus-galore]

Oh hard core agree. I can't tell you how baffling it was begging for people to actually read the source material in animanga fandoms because they would just go on trashing on the heroes and simping for the villains and making up false crimes characters didn't even do, then walking into LMK and it was the exact opposite. Everyone is obsessed with the source material, they HATE the villain. What the pepperoni. Seeing people go "well of course Wukong hates Mac what did he expect when he killed and ate a monkey and stole stuff" he didn't do SQUAT. And just because LMK combined demons with Brotherhood characters of similar names doesn't mean they were the same character in JTTW so seeing THAT and the assumptions people bring from that is. huh. I think JTTW is too advance a book for the 14 year old age demographic LMK attracts. I'd also like to study this wild phenomenon of villain redemption demands because nobody complained about Red Son and it makes me laugh everytime someone says "Macaque needs to show more actual want to change" like, fam. Maybe if he was an actual villain to BEGIN WITH instead of *checks note* a one off instance of villainy where all he did was fight Wukong post-stealing MK's powers and be a bullying jerk, another instance of ambiguous LBD warning and trauma projecting lore dumping, and then a following season of being an unwilling henchman who kept telling us 50 times he didn't want to do this, that LBD forced it bc he "already had a taste of dying" and just wanting to be free of it and never talk to MK and his friends again *points very deliberately at the "and then I'm done with you all." line. Pretty dang hard for a character to pull things out of a hat to convince others that "they no longer have those motives and desires" when they didn't have them in the first place. Love the way you're calling out the Bull Fam and Tripitaka those are so trueeee. Zhu Bajie too lmao. My thoughts exactly. Twinkle toes over there is going to be a fun character to witness when we get context on the "Monkey! No violence!" line in LMK. And by character, I mostly mean the fandom response.

I can spend all day listing how much almost all the villains hold MK responsible for Wukong’s actions nearly 90% of the time or at least shit on him all because he’s Wukong’s successor.

But that’ll take literally all day…

It’s also the same with Every SINGLE inaccuracy in LMK that gets glossed over because every single fan’s bias of certain things.

Like you can condemn Macaque and make him all villainy but what about Zhu Bajie? Or Tripitaka? One of the reasons I dislike Zhu Bajie is because not only did he not change he was a pervert. I really disliked him for that. But it looks like LMK COMPLETELY changed that because we barely see any mention of his wife and the flashbacks show that Wukong met him in the same village Tang, MK and Mei were in. So clearly there has been a change. But I barely see hate for Bajie about it because half the fandom villainizes Tripitaka already for not disciplining him as much as Wukong.

If you want to acknowledge how Macaque was in JTTW you also have to acknowledge EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER in the JTTW. If that’s how you really want it to go.

One thing I think would be the reason as to why the whole ‘Macaque cannibalized one of Wukong’s grandchildren’ was changed is because Macaque and Wukong KNEW EACH OTHER before the Journey. It is also implied that Macaque has been with Wukong the longest, (In the context of Shadow Play) and it is implied that he possibly resided or at least stayed in FFM. Which meant that Macaque is also attached to the Monkeys. Remember: Macaque’s motive is to hurt Wukong and only Wukong. Which is why he goes after MK because he knows that will hurt Wukong. But if he is attached to Wukong’s grandchildren and has lived with Wukong it’s also gonna hurt Macaque if he killed them. (Though Macaque is not overly affectionate like Wukong, the fact that the monkeys trust him enough to literally sit on top of any part of him they can sit on proves that Macaque did tend to them while Wukong was away.)

The only reason I can think that Wukong hates him is because of Tripitaka and the whole ‘using Wukong’s face’ jig.

Macaque can canonically pretend to be Wukong, he did so with MK in Season 2 and did trick Wukong into thinking he was MK in Season 1. There is a likelihood that the whole ‘pretending to be Wukong’ still happened in LMK.

Remember: In the Flashbacks of Macaque and Wukong’s confrontation, there is no circlet on Wukong’s head. This is further confirmed in Season 3 during the Samadhi Fire arc. In the Amnesia episode, Wukong confirms they are still in the Journey AFTER the Samadhi Fire was sealed (Because he said Four Rings which means the Samadhi Fire was sealed in rings already) And notice in the flashback when they were sealing the Samadhi Fire, Wukong doesn’t have his circlet, compared to the flashback with Azure where he DOES have a Circlet. No matter if Macaque’s flashback was faked, it does confirm that after some time, Tripitaka trusted Wukong enough that he removed the Circlet.

Which possibly means that Tripitaka and Wukong grew to have a mutual understanding of each other. Till Macaque showed up and proceeded to ruin everything.

So yeah if you need a reason as to why Wukong hated Macaque there’s a possibility it wasn’t about cannibalism in the context of LMK.

[fluffypotatey]

Hcs about shadowpeach pining (angrily and in denial) during their nemesis era?

hmmmm ngl i’m not that great at listing my headcanons 👉👈 i simply tend to just let them unfold in my writing but let’s say shadowpeach in their nemesis era….

Macky would take (and had taken) every mention of Wukong to complain and shit-talk on the guy. this is less of a headcanon and more of an observation, but keeping that in mind, i like to think that because of Macky’s knee-jerk reaction to always spew the most venomous and harsh comments pertaining to Wukong, it has allowed for Macky’s own memories of Wukong to be distorted and negatively biased. for example: the shadowplay™️ :)

it definitely holds truth to it and shows Macky’s side of the story…..however, it is such a skewed perspective and blantantly anti-Wukong propaganda, which goes to show how much Macky spends his time stewing in his bitterness and anger

anyway, add pining to that and you get a hot fucking mess lmao

we just established that Macky struggles with viewing his memories of his past with Wukong in a objective and unbiased way and has an unhealthy obsession with finding ways to test the guy’s golden character apart like a chronically online Twitter anti….ADD PINING TO THAT???? jfc Macky would be so fucking unbearable. worse than the most exaggerated tsunderes in the cheesiest shojo anime’s ever. he’d be insufferable.

an “obsessive demon”, some might say

Wukong on the other hand…..he’s a little busy with mentoring MK, mitigating his own existential crisis (part 2???? part 3????) about immortality and the fact that he’s lived longer than he expected and he outlived his friends but not his old enemies and—

his mind’s little preoccupied to really focus on the fact that his old flame not only wants to kill him and MK but also might be someone he still never moved on from. also there’s no Tripitaka or Zhu Baije or Ao Lie to call him out on it (MK and Pigsy are the closest who could but Pigsy’s a little busy being suspicious and critical of Wukong’s mentoring methods with MK and MK is a little busy protecting the city & learning new moves & ignoring all his problems to call Wukong out with this particular issue)

though, could we really call it pining if Wukong just finds enjoyment in teasing his old friend now turned enemy from time to time? so what if Wukong enjoys ruling up Macky whenever he comes on to the scene in the name of LBD??? it’s just some harmless flirting teasing! it’s not like Wukong enjoys seeing Mac get all flustered or enjoys having someone to fight against that’s actually a challenge and for fun (not like fun fun, obvi, bc MK and the team are on a mission that Macky cannot find out about but 👀)

teasing Macky helps with Wukong’s boredom. that’s all. nothing else that needs to be examined further. yes 👍

[night-faye]

*cracks knuckles* ALRIGHT- 1) Update on what I said for a hero will sacrifice one to save the world, a villain will sacrifice the world for one but its hero/warrior philosophy. I finally found Mei's line for it! "Wukong knew the risks. It's what he would do if he had to. That's the hard part of being a hero." And THAT'S why the next episode is "Time to be Warriors" because being a hero never works out :D 2) Isn't it SO funny how Macky's complaints about "other people will tell you to be patient" feels like the kind of thing Wukong would've learned himself from the Monk after the journey 🤔 "your first strike should be your last strike" *coughs in jttw wukong killed macky in one hit to the head* "you don't use a weapon, you are a weapon." Sir WHAT HAPPENED. This wasn't you before 😭 I'm starting to think his "don't you feel stronger now" might be something someone told him after this so called "who did you make a deal with?" 🤔 3) So we know Macky instigated the fight, naturally. but seriously WHAT HAPPENEDDDDDDD. he was SAD and GUILTY and WUKONG LOVED HIM SM HE WAS RUFFLING HIS FUR AND FIXING HIS CLOTHES. how does a guy go to such murdery lengths that they started hating each other sm in S1 and then??? like?? S5 that love is creeping back???? of course, just like Macky getting interrupted in S4, they just can NOT seem to hold hands 😔 so Fluffy had the bright idea of ShadowPeach hand holding when Wukong dies. She is obsessed with his death flags as a mentor. 4) "The old you would've leveled this whole mountain range!" <-- monkey MK splits a mountain in half. 5) "inevitably bring darkness to those they hold dear." now that we know how crazy this play is for hinting stuff, WHAT is up with the monkey we see get attacked with evil vibes and why is it on this line Macky 👀 also hilarious to me "last show actually I was just heading off-" he seriously spent ALL DAY just talking about his break up over and over to anybody who would listen. "always the comedian" <--- s4 opens with Wukong joking and dancing on a table. Can you tell I'm obsessed with recontextualizing dialogue? "so you're her puppet now?" "haha you know me." HELLO? IMPLYING WHAT? all this talk about "a winning side" is very owie, when you think of the side that lost the war against heaven but also <3 in joining MK. despite LBD having WUKONG on her side. "your buddy Wukong values people by how useful they are to him." BUDDY YOURE THE ONE WHO FELT BAD YOU COULDNT BE USEFUL ENOUGH TO BREAK HIM OUT. I'm sensing some serious miscommunication over the Journey West here. BUT GEE really makes you think about Macky telling MK to be a weapon! That'll make you useful to the Monkey King for sure! also! the winning side was almost titled "a traitor inside" gee isn't THAT suspect. *pokes Macky repeatedly* double agent vibes lowkey. or is this a callout for betraying Wukong lol. 6) going through my like history and someone pointed out that MK was probably "you're in time out young man!" while Macky, fully able to fight back, stood there and let them tie him up like "oh no I can't believe you're overpowering me like this. this place is a nightmare." 7) Update on "Wukong is the undefeatable Monkey King he HAS to be strong." he only reacts to the spicy pepper burning his mouth bc he's used to pain ^_^ who cared at all if he was hurt by the circlet, why would they care if he complained about the burning? and really? a spicy burning hot pepper? when he already was forced to eat molten copper pellets? and dropping a rock on him when he had a mountain dropped on him? which fun fact: based on Wukong's pose, it seems he got trapped while running ;D

1) Update on what I said for a hero will sacrifice one to save the world, a villain will sacrifice the world for one but its hero/warrior philosophy. I finally found Mei's line for it! "Wukong knew the risks. It's what he would do if he had to. That's the hard part of being a hero." And THAT'S why the next episode is "Time to be Warriors" because being a hero never works out :D

🥺🥺🥺🥺

2) Isn't it SO funny how Macky's complaints about "other people will tell you to be patient" feels like the kind of thing Wukong would've learned himself from the Monk after the journey 🤔

MMM! YEAH I HAD THOUGHTS ON THIS THAT I WILL BE EXPLORING IN FICS HEHE

"your first strike should be your last strike" *coughs in jttw wukong killed macky in one hit to the head*

Hey, hey hey, shut up <3

"you don't use a weapon, you are a weapon." Sir WHAT HAPPENED. This wasn't you before 😭 I'm starting to think his "don't you feel stronger now" might be something someone told him after this so called "who did you make a deal with?" 🤔

Ohohohoh yes. this line. this line makes me Thing Things. So Many Things.

Will also be explored in fics I write hehehehe

3) So we know Macky instigated the fight, naturally. but seriously WHAT HAPPENEDDDDDDD. he was SAD and GUILTY and WUKONG LOVED HIM SM HE WAS RUFFLING HIS FUR AND FIXING HIS CLOTHES. how does a guy go to such murdery lengths that they started hating each other sm in S1

No lie I am currently working on a fic that will be exploring this EXACT thing :) You should Be Afraid :)

and then??? like?? S5 that love is creeping back???? of course, just like Macky getting interrupted in S4, they just can NOT seem to hold hands 😔

GOD YEAH IT'S SO HEARTBREAKING AHHHH

so Fluffy had the bright idea of ShadowPeach hand holding when Wukong dies. She is obsessed with his death flags as a mentor.

@fluffypotatey when I get you

Can you tell I'm obsessed with recontextualizing dialogue?

yes dw i am too hehe

"so you're her puppet now?""haha you know me."HELLO? IMPLYING WHAT? all this talk about "a winning side" is very owie, when you think of the side that lost the war against heaven

:)))) >*pats my trunk full of plans*<

6) going through my like history and someone pointed out that MK was probably "you're in time out young man!" while Macky, fully able to fight back, stood there and let them tie him up like "oh no I can't believe you're overpowering me like this. this place is a nightmare."

LMAO THAT'S SO FUNNY

7) Update on "Wukong is the undefeatable Monkey King he HAS to be strong." he only reacts to the spicy pepper burning his mouth bc he's used to pain ^_^ who cared at all if he was hurt by the circlet, why would they care if he complained about the burning? and really? a spicy burning hot pepper? when he already was forced to eat molten copper pellets? and dropping a rock on him when he had a mountain dropped on him? which fun fact: based on Wukong's pose, it seems he got trapped while running ;D

HEY WHAT IF YOU DIDN'T? (I'mjustkiddingthisisgreat)

[mandareeboo]

I love this episode. It's so darn sneaky. I love the way Macaque uses his powers here, and that entrance was just muah *chefs kiss* you could see little glitch symbols on the TV. Love me a good spooky aesthetic AND a theatre kid in one. Isn't it curious how MK calls his gold vision "a baby power" and they're all chatting about how his powers show up when he needs them most, like when he needs to save his friends with the fish ;) and he mentions 72 transformations first? Kinda interesting how Macaque forces that exact situation. As well as how he tied up MK here + held up by the throat in ep 1, treating him as LBD and Mayor did to him then complains about how MK can't even beat him??? Seems like he wants MK to do what he couldn't. The eye thing is just brutal lmao, this season treats him as a punching bag. It's the funniest thing to me bc it basically drives Macaque to be absolutely fed up with being the villain. He'll still be antagonistic, but he had (1) nice stunt of being a jerk to kill Wukong and then discovered being in close proximity to MK and friends is the most annoying experience ever when somebody else wants you to do it.

Macaque has never been interested in world domination! Hell, it's almost a stretch to call him a villain. His main goal is to irritate two (2) people, damn the consequences, and he does it well. His main appearances as an evildoer is literally just him thumbing his nose at Monkey King and trying to awkwardly evil-dopt MK.

[eldritchlittleblackdragon]

One of the most frustrating aspects of several jobs I've had now: people DO NOT FUCKING READ.

Argh!!!!!

[lmkwritings]

heyo hope ur doing well!! <3 i saw that ur requests are open and can u do a platonic angst to fluff scenario with mk and a younger sister reader after she became a host for lbd and got her powers?? srry if confusing this is kinda my first time asking :'3

now this.

this i can do.

it had been getting. cold, recently. you hadn’t understood why, you just knew it was cold, and that you had to write this damn letter.

you weren’t about to question why. you just knew you had to.

then you felt. really, really cold.

especially around monkey king or your brother.

MK got worried for you when you where trembling in the middle of summer.

so, the others thought you were just stressed, and set up a day out for you all! destress and detox.

then monkey king went on vacation.

and you turned the day into something for your brother.

(no one noticed.)

you kept getting colder.

…you felt really lightheaded one day, and just.

blacked out.

nononononononoNoNONONONO NO!

WHY ARE YOU OVER THERE??

WHY-

oh.

oh.

he understands now.

your not in control.

he can see it in your eyes now.

he could feel tears build up from your harsh words, he could see your own build.

then, you held up a hand, the bone demons power flickering, like she hadn’t been expecting you to fight back.

you held up Four Fingers.

and told him to run.

he grabbed onto monkey king and they were gone.

it hurt him too much to look behind himself.

he clutched onto his mentor and wailed.

“Almost there (Y/N). Just hold on a little longer for me.”

He was glaring up at the woman possessing his sister.

instead of being scared or awkward like canon, he was determined.

angry.

he could remember it, how terrified his sister looked when she had to fight monkey king.

but she had told him.

“me or the world. take your pick.”

and there wasn’t even an option?? mk was signing her up for therapy after this.

he almost screamed out when they fell, but.

macaque caught you.

he had caught his baby sister, and for that?

mk forgave him, for everything.

how could he not?

macaque had just saved his world.

satisfaction.

that’s all the two of you felt when you hugged.

he had gripped you hard, wailing into your shoulder.

you weren’t fairing much better.

“it’s okay- i’m okay, i’m here i’m here-“

you hadn’t been able to stop reassuring you were there.

you couldn’t help but question if it was for yourself or him.

he had refused to let you go for awhile. not that you were complaining.

“she’s so nosy. she like, had me relive being thirteen.”

“WHAT??”

mei begged you to know why thirteen specifically.

“what happened during my cringe era stays in the cringe era.”

she was so pouty after.

until you started drawing the group up some armor and stuff.

“your like. infants on the field. where’s the armor? the weapons??”

it had been hard, finding out about your powers, but you didn’t hate them.

macaque taught you how to use them.

wukong helped with your sudden strength and speed.

lady iron fan had approached you, and given you books on bone demons.

“before my son burns them”- yeah right. 😒

mei and mk were ecstatic that you could fight with them.

MK and you started calling yourselves the “Sun and Moon” duo.

mei was the stars.

wukong looked pained when he heard.

macaque had started laughing hysterically.

you didn’t get it.

[imminent-danger-came]

i am so glad theres someone else who also thinks lmk executes its ideas and themes much better than toh. rip belos you will never be lady bone demon

TOH wasn't that strong in the themeing department in general (though I'm not well-versed in that show). I remember finishing the finale and being like....damn. What was the overall message of this show? ("Weirdos stick together" maybe?) Does toh have any consistent motifs or symbolism? If memory serves, not really?

Like, you rewatch episode 1x01 of LMK and MK goes "Well...I am invincible. *sigh* Anytime I try to do anything, I just gunk everything up!", and you're like. Woah. The Sun Wukong parallels are that strong from episode 1x01? Invincibility/Immortality and hurting the people you care about? No matter what you do, it leading to pain? Holy shit.

Contrast that with TOH where it's like, in episode 1x02 Luz learns she's not "the chosen one" and that the boiling isles are very different from the magical realms she imagined...which is kinda undone by the reveal that the Titan chose to show Luz the Glyphs. And while Titan Luz is very fun, it's not thematically sound—which is just kinda that whole show, you know? If you're not thinking about it that deep, then it's like "holy shit cool concept!" (which is totally valid of people), but if you do it's pretty empty. (Hi Hunter getting flapjack-based teleportation powers. What was the point of this.)

Which, I think this becomes super apparent with the Luz and Belos foil. Luz and Belos had a lot of interesting parallels (both of them being humans in the isles, each coming there wanting to fulfill a certain "role", for Luz being the "Great Witch Azura" and for Belos/Philip being a "Witch Hunter General", the whole "protecting the things you love" deal). And then, where does this all go?

It leads to Luz being told "no. You're the good guy and Belos is the bad guy! You could never be the same! Belos is motivated by his own 'need to be the hero'" (which was definitely what Luz was motivated by over the course of the show, even if it was more innocent, but whatever), and riding off of tdp s4's "In the name of love, you will do things so dangerous and vile—you will never be able to forgive yourself" and the lmk s3's "to pain" scene, it fell really flat for me—like it's not bad, it's just really mid.

(Post where I go on a rant about Luz's s3 arc being kinda lame)

And then, you have the LBD & MK foil. You have MK's s4 arc. The "to pain" scene is such a unique "you and I are not so different" moment—but it's also relevant to the whole show. And LBD is right, doing what you think is right does lead to pain. Like, even looking at MK's journey over the seasons, every action has had it's consequences.

Saving Pigsy and Tang in 1x04? Spider Queen snagged MK's hair and that let her dominate the city later. Stopping DBK in 1x10? That freed LBD. Stopping SQ in ROTSQ? That gave LBD access to the trigram furnace. MK trying to gain more power in s2? Well, "Now do you understand? From the start you never had what it took to defeat me. All your power could do was make me stronger." SWK leaving in s2? "You're the one always running off, trying to get more power or more sources of immortality." Trying to get the Samadhi fire in s3? Opps, now Mei has this uncontrollable flame within her. Monkey King running off to fight LBD alone so MK doesn't have to? He get's possessed. Freeing SWK from possession? Now LBD has the power to fulfill destiny. Attempting to free your friends from the scroll? Now Peng and Azure are also free. Trying to get SWK back? His scroll piece has been split in half. Stopping Azure from destroying all of reality? Now the Jade Emperor's power is without a host, flower fruit mountain is destroyed, and you can't help but feel they played into the puppet master's hands.

It's thematically consistent and banging. Like....anytime they try to do anything, they just gunk everything up. Like....sometimes you hurt the people who care about you the most. Like....whether you want to help people or not, everything you do can just make things worse.

AND MAYBE. Just maybe, you can also leave the world a little better than you found it. The pain that's been caused doesn't undo the good that's been done. And I guess I think that's more interesting that just like..."no! you're intent was good and theirs was bad!", you know?

[weepingtalecowboy]

"Yeah that was kind of one of the bigger problems with LMK because they constantly do what they want with the story and then people get offended about characters despite there not being any actual content in the series(like when people got offended over Wukong killing Macaque despite there being no actual content in the show that straight up implied that) the writers should tell that they do with JTTW whatever they want do that people stop complaining or hating characters for things in the book"

The ploblem is that the show writers keep refrecing Jttw, even if they make up lore for theit narrative. That's fine per sé, all films, shows, books, do take a creative imaginaction of the source material. Even the most beloved of Jttw media, most of them did took a different approach and did change some stuff, characters or timeline. The difference, is that most of them did give a brief explaination on where we are, who the characters are and what they change. Like in Nezha rebirth (don't remember the name of the film) make Li Jing a a character to empathize with, but they make it work not because they imply his reasoning or what happened but they stated at the start of the movie what happened! We already know the important part of the story , so we can understand better why characters act in the way they do.

Lmk on the other hand, doesn't do that. It can be for a low budget or not enough screen time, but if they want go into this type of changes, they need to explain what happened differently. Because like this, fans would jusz go to Jttw to fill the (plot) holes the show left behind, like Wukong killing Macaque, Erlang Shen's actions, Nezha's relationship with his family. Then it becomes a bigger mess becausa the show doesn't explain in the latter seasons, and when it explain the fans already made their headcannon cannon, so the show tries to please the fans and make a bigger mess.

Season 4 and 3 are exemple of this, they're good season, but character like Lbd doesn't feel like their season 2 self, neither Mei, Pigsy (he literally said to Mk he isn't his dad, but then is upset when Mk says he has no family?! Season 5 fixed it, thank god!) Mk (Mk wouldn't say the thing he said to Wukong, my man cares his mentor. Is ok Mk being selfiss sometimes and having flaws and upset. It just sometime it feels off), Macaque (his redemption arc wasn't a arc but a start, fight me. Nobody should have forgive him so easily. Like Mei is protected over her love ones, but is ok with Macaque that hurt all of them for funzy?) Wukong getting blame on blame for something he doesn't even have control over. Season 4 isn't better on bashing Wukong over again snd contiune to tell the fans to read Jttw but doesn't make us understand well what they changed, so the circle contiune.

The crew is oblivious trying and working hard on the show, the show isn't perfect or a masterpiece, but good and fun to watch and lego continua to fuck them over. They just bite more than they can chew. They act like they're a show with a big buldget, a lot of screen time and long season. If they worked on something similar to the first two season, the show may be sighly bettet or they could try not a a worl ending plotline every season.

(Ps. Sorry for taking so long to respond)

Is totally fine lol

[shadowpeachyuri]

Asks are getting kinda long so. Mostly, I wonder why Reddit is so ticked off at Mac lmao. Everywhere I go, it's either insane villain apologism by making the hero pathetic and wrong, or extreme villain antagonism by overblowing consequences. Bud got dragged out of hell after centuries, got a super snack out of MK's powers, vented in a theatre before a trauma flashback of MK coming to whoop his butt reminded him of SWK and couldn't even skedaddle before Not-Mayor forced him into a symmetrical wardrobe, I mean. an unwilling henchminion arc, and proceeded to get his butt whooped by the gang who love to target his trauma eye and get looney tunes whumped by electrocution in a giant lantern, tossed over a ship, and my little pony friendship is magic style song blasted in his ears. and whatever hell portal Not-Mayor dunked his head in while chained up, a few times over. he was about to throw up with that face he made when LBD semi-possessed him. I think that's enough consequences, he already got The Talk(tm) tied up again w MK, (a compliant hostage) and mostly keeps vagueing warnings to the squad, being very idgaf about LBD. Not much villain behavior compared to others I've seen. He's not even an anti-villain, he's just a self-driven traumatized survivor who vents to people in ambiguous closed off ways and tends to cross over into jerk territory. So I'm here like, are half of tumblr/reddit posts out-dated, bc if someone isn't salty about S1 Mac (rare) they are TICKED about past!Mac (frequent) to which I ask, what did bro DO. I have never seen fandom run on such hypothetical anger before. What I miss, because past!Mac's issues are just vocalized as "never made his own choices." which, is NOT a thing to apologize abt? if anything, it would fuel the fire? It sounds like a reason to ditch your friends instead of following along and passively complaining. A lot of it is also abandoning SWK, but. he visited the mountain? I see a lot about Flower Fruit burning taken from JTTW which is interesting (so yeah, I think fandom relies on the book a lot for their character feelings) bc SWK learns that after beating LBD three times WHICH IS INTERESTING because Mac says "looks like OUR OLD FRIEND The Lady Bone Demon is back" our old friend?? OUR?? by osmosis I thought their break up happened because they couldn't beat her together, and then I watched the show and there was nothing on that. but since learning the twitter post theory about memory manip, well. ShadowPeach just got more tragic. its too bad tho, I would've loved a story of accidentally killing your best friend and realizing after instead of another oh no it was this other villain behind it. but alright. it makes too much sense tho based on SWK's reactions.

OH I DIDNT EVEN CATCH THAT “OUR” bit!! it does beg the question a little bit of “why did she resurrect him then,” but at the same time, it’s a very interesting theory!!