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almdragonrend · 8 months ago

Text

I found another old conversation I had, here it is, but I warn you, it's long...

! Yes another reaction! Im really happy we getting more of it!

But please remember OG Katarina's Good deed's not only the Bad ones

And please PLEASE for the Love of Akatosh don't trie to justify Katarina's Exile as if it was anything but in act of complete and crulety!

I have nothing more to say and hope to read more soon

StrangerWager on Chapter 1Sat 01 Oct 2022 02:00PM CEST

As a person who haven't read much of the manga nor the Light Novels, and only with prior knowledge from the anime, I have zero clue of what was OG Katarina's deeds that were not bad. I would appreciate it if I were to be enlightened with some of these facts I do not know about.

AlmDragonrend on Chapter 1Sat 01 Oct 2022 02:24PM CEST

Okay thank you for asking ^_^ i'd love tell you !

First of when Katarina was younger Baron sherry came to house Claes to force Anne in to a Forced Marriage that played out In OG Fl

The same way it did in they Anime,what you may not know is that the Mann he tried to marry her of to was already above 60 years! And known for committing Domestic Violence on his previous Wifes,So little OG Katarina stood up to protect her lowly Maid who is nothing more than a Commoner point from a grown ass scary looking Adult,

She also never bullyd Sophia despite the rest of Sociar Nobility Children doing it

She even told her own grown clique to leave Sophia alone as she was the little sister of her fiances best friend

Which is more than Geordo ever did for the Ascards,

She encouraged Sianna Nelson daughter of the lowest ranked Noble family in all of Sociar after seeing her hard work

And Sianna became Katarina's best friend despite being just one single step about a Commoner in her status

Which shows that even OG Katarina cared more about a persons personality than status when choosing friends

She only gets on trial in the routes were Maria tries it with either Katarina's Fiance or adopted Brother or both

And that with the Alan was just a miss translation when the Harem route was meant

Ps:I hope this was helpfull,please tell me ^_^

Last Edited Sat 01 Oct 2022 02:27PM CEST

StrangerWager on Chapter 1Sat 01 Oct 2022 02:37PM CEST

You have my deepest gratitude. Thank you for the new found knowledge that shall be used for this work.

AlmDragonrend on Chapter 1Sat 01 Oct 2022 02:43PM CEST

Im the one who should thank you for giving me the opportunity to explain ^-^

But there is also something else...

It's just a rumor so i didn't include it in my explanation,

Do you wanna hear it ?

StrangerWager on Chapter 1Sat 01 Oct 2022 02:44PM CEST

By all means go ahead, I'll fact check it along the way.

AlmDragonrend on Chapter 1Sat 01 Oct 2022 02:57PM CEST

Thank you ^_^!

Well there actually two rumours

First of,apparently no matter which route you choose Maria's actuall first crush was Katarina even in the FL time line

Second the more obvious Katarina only behaved the way she did in the Game because of Raphael/Sirius dark magic

Please let me know what you think or know about that ^_^!

Thank you ^_^!

Well there actually two rumours

First of,apparently no matter which route you choose Maria's actuall first crush was Katarina even in the FL time line

Second the more obvious Katarina only behaved the way she did in the Game because of Raphael/Sirius dark magic

Please let me know what you think or know about that ^_^!

StrangerWager on Chapter 1Sat 01 Oct 2022 03:29PM CEST

Well, that certainly is something, I'll still see if whether or not this may be used or not.

AlmDragonrend on Chapter 1Sat 01 Oct 2022 03:32PM CEST

Thank you ^_^!

Im already hiped for the next chapter ^_^!

R (Guest) on Chapter 1Sun 02 Oct 2022 12:57PM CEST

Hold it... the dark magic thing makes too much sense.

Since OG Katarina's exagerated actions towards OG Maria were out of character for her if what you said is true.

It would also explain why an trained swordsman like OG Geordo would Kill OG Katarina instead of disarming her despite being (probably) skilled enough for it...

OG Keith magic going crazy is more easily believable.

So...everything bad that happened with OG Katarina can be traced back to Sirius (well...traced to the mage whispering in his ear but still).

I already have great sympathy for both OG Katarina and OG Maria.

if both rumours are true that scaled even higher...

AlmDragonrend on Chapter 1Sun 02 Oct 2022 02:46PM CEST

Yea i used to hate OG Maria,ans she certainly is a coward but...

After hearing about it i most say it turned the whole thing in an even greater tragedy...

Can you imagen your first love being killed for being mean to you...?

Also Katarina only tries to kill OG Maria in the Bad ending

Meaning she is already sentenced to Exile = death for a spoiled Duke Daughter

Meaning even Dark Magic can only bring Katarina to kill Maria if Maria has already become the catalyst for her own demise not before....

R (Guest) on Chapter 1Sun 02 Oct 2022 03:50PM CEST

I think dark magic was involved from the beginning.

OG Katarina being mad at OG Maria in Geordo's route makes sense ( and it's completly fair), but it makes little sense in the Keith's route.

OG Katarina disliked OG Keith and OG Maria wasn't the first woman he courted, so it still is out of character for her.

And the Exile ending has Keith/Geordo print all over it, because they both disliked OG Katarina and i have a hard time beliving OG Maria resented Katarina's treatment.

Also i would not go as far as to call OG Maria a coward, after her magic manifested she had no positive human interaction at all...

The people of her village avoided because of her magic, her supposed existence because of an affair or both.

Her father left and her mother couldn't even look at her in the eye.

So she had a combo of critically low self esteem and affection starved.

Also the only routes that OG Maria was in the wrong in my opinion are Geordo and Alan (since both are betrothed to another)

AlmDragonrend on Chapter 1Sun 02 Oct 2022 06:28PM CEST

That is really worth a tought,

Bout if the s the One she "actually loves" is Katarina is truth?

Id asks alot of questions

Like maybe she got only on with Keith/Geordo because of their connection to Katarina?

Also Maria is suposed to "see" dark magic

Something is of here....

R (Guest) on Chapter 1Sun 02 Oct 2022 10:42PM CEST

Since the choice is player based we can only speculate.

About the 'see dark magic thing', Fortune lover is a video game and Raphael/Sirius is an hidden capture target.

I don't know how the route is unlocked, but if it's supposed to be hidden maybe OG Maria needed to unlock a certan skill level or achieve something that allowed her to see dark magic.

If it was that obvious it would be a pretty on the nose hidden route for a video game.

My theory is that OG Maria 'persuit' of the capture targets was more on her need to have an good human connection (aka out of loneliness and desperation).

So i assume the hidden route would apear when she achieved enough self confidence/resolve to do so.

I don't see the OG Maria that would hide behind a capture target as having that conviction.

The Isekai Maria on the other hand confronted Sirius alone by her own will power (Bakarina's kindess gave her the confidence boost) and that Maria is the one that we are sure can see dark magic.

Because of that i belive that OG Maria needed to make the other capture targets lives and selves better without losing to her loneliness, then she would be able to truly help Raphael. (but that is just my theory)

R (Guest) on Chapter 1Sun 02 Oct 2022 11:08PM CEST

Also, since we are sharing theories.

Three things that always made me scratch my head:

- All routes have a single rival (except Katarina that apears in two)

- All routes rivals share their element with the capture target (except Katarina[earth] in Geordo[fire] route)

- In 'Verge of destruction' another rival apears and is interested in Geordo and acts like what one would expect from a villainess (Noelia[fire])

I have a theory for that (again i treat Fortune Lover as a video game)

I think in the test/beta version of the game Katarina is the rival in Keith's route and Noelia is the rival in Geordo's route.

But since Katarina would be the sister rival it would overlap in base concept with Sophia and Nicol, and the somewhat similar stage presence of Villain Katarina and Villain Noelia would create another redundancy,

so i assume the developers scrapped Noelia as an character and transfered some of her dialogue to Katarina.

Noelia doesn't apear in the Base isekai because Bakarina apeared before the game started, but she apears in the Verge of destruction because the game already started and Bakarina's apearance glitched the game back to the Beta because it needed someone in the Villain role.

Just a theory

AlmDragonrend on Chapter 1Sun 02 Oct 2022 11:31PM CEST

Might be

But That stitl dosen't explain the "Katarina = first love"part

Also i highly doubt That anyone but Katarina can give Maria the necessary confidence

Than again its sometimes suggested That someone Isekaid from Sociar to Katarina's RL

And their maid FL....

BUT Please Explain What do you Think about the Katarina part?

R (Guest) on Chapter 1Mon 03 Oct 2022 02:06AM CEST

That is a difficult question, but i will do my best.

Warning it will be a long comment...

Lets start with a simple but complicated question: what makes people fall in love?

- Do they treat you different form everyone else?

- Do you admire something about them?

- Do you just enjoy their company more then usual?

- Do you share a connection with them?

- Do they complete you in a significant whay?

With those questions in mind:

- OG katarina kinda fits on the first, others where moved by envy, self importance or self steem issues , Katarina might have seen OG Maria as a threat to her future, so she was the first to take her seriously and more than just a cute face with undeserved magic.

- That is easy to answer, OG Katarina AND Bakarina are so unapologetic themselves that someone like Maria that works hard to be accepted can admire they carring their hearts on their sleeve.

- That is a hard NO, i fear.

- They have the contrast connetion, Katarina is a proud high rank noble, but has weak magic and worse academics, Maria is a shy humble commoner, but has a rare and powerful magic and excells academically, in short they don't fit exacly in their expected envioment.

- Again OG Katarina and Bakarina have the confidance that Maria lacks, they are proud of themselves despite many believing that outside of their title there is very little to be proud of, Maria has a lot of skills and despite having them she still does't fell that is enough.

Or Maria would fall in love for no reason a all, love is weird.

That wall of text tries to explain why OG Maria would fall for OG Katarina.

But now as to why OG Katarina was the first:

All capture targets didn't take OG Maria seriously, they were dismissive ( Geordo[the see everything grey 'perfect' prince], Nicol[way to focused on his sister], Alan[self steem issues]) or saw her as another petty face (Keith[the flirty playboy]), OG katarina took her seriously, BAD seriously but still.

Because they took longer to open up to OG Maria, any points that require them showing their stories delayed the love route, BUT OG Katarina basically roars what she is about with little regard for anything.

On the begining the "enjoy company" part is on the negative for everyone (including OG katarina) so no point for anyone

Again BOTH OG Katarina and Bakarina are open books, aka easier to understand and relate than the others.

Put all that with OG Maria's unhealty lack of human affection...it's possible.

TL,DR: i belive that is possible that OG Katarina would be OG Maria first crush, not a very healty one but still.

Does that answer the question in a decent way?

AlmDragonrend on Chapter 1Mon 03 Oct 2022 10:14AM CEST

Yes it dose answer it,

But,if we assume just for moment That it is a fact rather than theory

How exactly would That make you feel emotionally?

And how do you thing OG Maria was feeling about it after everything was sad and done ?

R (Guest) on Chapter 1Mon 03 Oct 2022 09:09PM CEST

Hmm...

There are two Capture targets (Geordo and Keith) and two Endings (Exile and Death)

I will answer both questions depending on the combinations.

-Exile(General)

Disapointed in OG Maria, she doesn't look like the kind of person that would want OG Katarina exiled(or even resent her for that matter), but probably let it go because either she was convinced by her current lover or didn't want to risk put her current situation at risk, but i really belive she will feel guilty(specially in Geordo's route) and really worried for Katarina.

Very Worried/sad for OG Katarina, she got her life ruined and now has to survive in a place she doen't know, since she is a spoiled noble that cant end well. As a bonus, if there was dark magic, it wasn't even her fault at all.

-Exile(Keith)

Angry at OG Keith, while he had fair reasons to hate OG Katarina, saying he went overboard is an undestatment, since he actually had worse before the Claes took him in. And OG Katarina probaly treated him bad because she saw him as proof of her father's infidelity and causing indirect pain to her mother( both undestandable since she was 8 and i belive her mother encoraged her to it).

IF dark magic gave him a push then i feel kinda bad for him too.

-Exile(Geordo)

JUMP OFF A CLIFF, OG Geordo is implied to have little to no care to anyone until OG Maria apeared, aka he used OG Katarina as a tool and i belive that her exile in this case was more to break the engagement without a hit on his reputation and not because of her treatment of OG Maria(because again i dont think Maria would want this).

Even if there was dark magic, he was using and manipulating OG Katarina before any interaction with Sirius, so i repeat...JUMP OFF A CLIFF.

-Death(general)

Feel really bad for OG Maria, she was alone for most of her life, found a first love in OG Katarina that despised her (fairly in Geordo's route), saw said first love DIE RIGHT IN FRONT OF HER by the hands of her present love after the former tried to KILL HER, so she will blame HERSELF for Katarina's death, and now her present lover goes in a self imposed exile leaving her totally ALONE AGAIN.

(put that girl on suicide watch, therapy of both geez)

As a bonus (since the murderer left) she will have to endure the repercutions of the nobility alone.

Do i even need to explain OG Katarina...poor girl watched her life being ruined little by little, tried to kill the reason her life was ruined(in her eyes) and said murder atempt wasn't really her choice (dark magic) and then DIED FOR IT. Hope she finds peace...

Death(Keith)

Conflicted between furious and sad for OG Keith, if my memory serves right OG Katarina was killed because he lost control (maybe had dark magic involved) when trying to protect OG Maria.

Dude was tortured in his original home, got a new one where the mother and the older sister didn't treat him well and now he killed his sister and he didn't even mean it. Now he leaves the only one that actually treated him well out of guilt (kinda a dick move on Keith's part but still)

Death(Geordo)

do i even need to go in detail...

Be honest Geordo, you wanted Katarina gone, just not like that because it would reflect bad on you, are you leaving out of guilt or because you are fleeing the consequences.

As a bonus you are leaving Maria behind to deal with the repercution of YOUR actions.

Forget the cliff...JUMP ON A VOLCANO

I guess my opinion in OG Geordo is showing...

AlmDragonrend on Chapter 1Mon 03 Oct 2022 09:25PM CEST

That is a very good analysis

And that was what I love,it sounds exactly how I think they would feel,

And yea poor OG Katarina

She really is a good girl at the core

Couldn't blame OG Maria for falling for the Girl

If OG Maria ever becomes so powerful in light Magic that she could see all 3 timeliness from her own Birth to 100 after in one moment, how would she feel about it than ?

R (Guest) on Chapter 1Mon 03 Oct 2022 09:38PM CEST

What do you mean?

OG Maria when?

Before the academy, before the endings or after the endings?

What do you mean?

OG Maria when?

Before the academy, before the endings or after the endings?

AlmDragonrend on Chapter 1Mon 03 Oct 2022 09:44PM CEST

Both,

I really liked to here you thoughts about how she'd feel looking both forward and backward

As i like to talk about such things,

R (Guest) on Chapter 1Mon 03 Oct 2022 10:28PM CEST

What the hell...i will do them all ( i think there are 4 timelines)

Before the academy

- Maria would be horrified to see what would happen because of her. But also would know both Keith and Katarina need her help.

She maybe would try to at least clear the air about Keith being Katarina's half brother, then Katarina could apologise, and Maria would try to protect Katarina from Geordo (poor girl needs it) i don't know if katarina would listen to her. I don't see this Maria going for Geordo, she maybe would try her luck with Keith, Katarina or both.

One detail Maria lacks confidence to do it, but she both cares about them and feels like she owes it to them to do her best, and Maria is a hard worker.

Before the endings(Keith's route)

- This time she would try her hardest to convince Keith to leave Katarina alone, or at least not insist on the exile. And would still try to save Katarina from Geordo. I don't see her relationship with Keith being afected in a meanfull way, but i am not sure if she will try to become friends with Katarina, both because she knows Katarina deslikes her now and because she feels like she does't deserve to become katarina's friend.

Before the ending(Geordo's route)

- Again would try to save Katarina, but this time i dont think she herself would feel save around someone like Geordo, even if he does care about her, not sure if the relationship would end but she would be weary of him at least, maybe even try to hold him back on his more malicous tactics to protect others from him.

After the ending(Keith's route - Exile)

- She would try to convince Keith to help her find Katarina or go herself, to at least see if she is ok and if not would assist her even if Katarina refused. Maria would be sad if Keith didn't try to help his sister, but she would understand (and would help Katarina alone)

After the ending (Geordo's route - Exile)

- Again would try to find Katarina, Geordo hardly would help and more so to apease Maria. This has a high chance to put a strain in their relationship. Since this Maria now knows that Geordo didn't gave Katarina the respect she deserved, and now sees a side of the prince she doesn't like.

After the ending (Keith's route - Death)

- Maria would be in a bad place,with extreme guilt and alone, but she would try to find Keith because she knows he is also in a bad place and she feels like she owes to at least stop him from doing something stupid, someone died because of her, she won't let another.

After the ending (Geordo's route - Death)

- By far the worst case for Maria's mental health, Katarina died because of her, and all because she fell for a man that didn't really deserve it.

This Maria has little to fight for now for and needs urgent therapy.

AlmDragonrend on Chapter 1Tue 04 Oct 2022 10:33PM CEST

Good analysis 👍

But I would have liked it more if you had gone more in to how Maria would have feeld about her possible relationship with Katarina in the other timeliness

And yes BURN IN HELL OG Geordo YOU DESPICABLE DISAPPOINTMENT OF A HUMAN BEING AND WASTED MATRIAL OF THE FLAME OF LIFE!!!!!!!

And yes I clearly can se that Maria would try to rescue Katarina and Winn her over no matter the cost...

R (Guest) on Chapter 1Thu 06 Oct 2022 12:18AM CEST

Oh...my bad, i assumed you meant the game timelines.

Assuming the other timeline was the isekai one.

General

Maria would be confused with some key differences between Bakarina and OG Katarina.

Before the academy and before the Exile endings.

She would try harder to save/befriend OG Katarina because she now knows a more friendly and kind person is in there (since i belive OG Katarina and Bakarina ARE the same person just raised differently and in different envioments)

Still would help OG Keith and maybe score both.

OG Geordo will get some help from her in this case, because now she knows a the is a version of Geordo that can be better person.(Still don't think she would end up with him though)

The biggest impacts (emotionaly wise) would be in the death's endings.

OG Maria would feel even worse than in my other analysis.

In Keith's route - i am not sure if she would try to help OG Keith in his exile here because now she knows she took all the wrong choices and maybe she is now too terrified to make things even worse.

In Geordo's route - This somehow is worse than the previous one. Because now she knows:

1 - OG Katarina was an extremely kind person inside and had things been different would be an amazing friend or maybe more (and died because of her bad choices).

2 - OG Geordo HAD a possibility of becoming a better person and he got worse (again her choices didn't help there)

3 - The rest of the Isekai harem could have become good friends and companions to her (not in this continuity)

In short, knowing what could have been (and won't because of her) would break what is left of OG Maria spirit.

AlmDragonrend on Chapter 1Thu 06 Oct 2022 03:23AM CEST

Oh ! I should have been more clear on that one !

With the 3 time lines i meant Fortun Lover,Verge of doom, sorry

And i agree her soul and generally Personality are the same,

She just hasn't 17 extra years of maturity

And how could the death ending even happen if she has this knowledge before the start

Or even before Katarina's trial Hamefur Maria loves Bakarina

It isn't very clear in verge of doom but in both setting's Maria is definitely happier with Katarina around

Than in all good endings of FL,

So i refuse to believe she would be willing to damned the Woman who is the only one she ever truly loved in all possible timeliness

As the happy ending's in FL don't make her seem all that happy....

But what do you think....?

R (Guest) on Chapter 1Thu 06 Oct 2022 04:34AM CEST

I don't discont the death ending because there is a dark mage lurking in the corner.(maria isn't aware of them)

And yes, she is happier with Katarina around indeed.

I think the exile is more of fault of OG Keith ( verge of doom Keith shows his deslike of her, and if dark magic was involved then it would take much)

The Exile in OG Geordo's route had the prince's print all over it, even without dark magic, heck in verge of doom the first think that comes to his mind when Katarina 'changed' is "I can still use her"(...Fk you Geordo...)

The Verge of doom characters the same as the Game counterpart until Bakarina changed them.

As for the endings i don't think "happy" is the right word for OG Maria.

She went from being bullied and alone to finally have a person that cares for her (up from zero) and said person is most likely protecting her from the bullies.

Her life overall improved, BUT only 1 person cares for her so she still lonely and the Katarina issue makes her sad.

So less 'happy' and more 'content' in my opinion.

Its like if someone survived with only water and bread their whole life and now has milk and buttered bread, its and improvement and their are 'content' (but still less than ideal)

AlmDragonrend on Chapter 1Thu 06 Oct 2022 08:25AM CEST

I get what you mean

But I'm still pretty sure she woul go after Katarina

After learning so much,

And I said she saw everything about all 3 time lines at once

Meaning she has to be aware of Sirius

Because he's clearly shown atleast in Hamefura

Also I'm pretty sure she'd avoid Geordo after knowing what kind a guy he is

Am I wrong?

R (Guest) on Chapter 1Thu 06 Oct 2022 08:42AM CEST

Oh, i though she only saw her perspective of the events.

Not sure about the avoid Geordo part, there is a good chance of that or she could try help him become better(she will not date him though)

AlmDragonrend on Chapter 1Thu 06 Oct 2022 11:02AM CEST

No I mean she's seeing all the events from outside

She does not get to see their thougt but everything else

And yea,who would want to date that Bastard?

I make a revelation now

I'm a Big Marikata fun so I'm a bit biased

Sorry I should have mentioned that before....

But I really want to hear which kind of Action you think Maria would take,....

I mean I'm pretty sure knowing everything she would be dead set on the Katarina Route, but what do you think....?

R (Guest) on Chapter 1Thu 06 Oct 2022 05:50PM CEST

I can't judge, Maria is my favorite pair with Katarina too.

I also believe she would go for Katarina given the chance.

Now i must also confess my bias.

Maria and Keith is my second favorite pair for Maria (katarina is the first).

So she scoring both is a victory triangle for me.(i also enjoy Keith and Kata)

AlmDragonrend on Chapter 1Thu 06 Oct 2022 07:18PM CEST

Would you consider a triple Marriage?

Maria,Katarina,Keith ?

I confess i actually dislike Keith a lot

Given what i already told i think you can gues why ?

Given Keith is desperate for love to such a point

And he think's of Maria as the only one who can save him and that he has so many rivals

If she in the middle of it all declared privately that she be willing to choose over all other's but under one condition

He's most likely to accept any condition even if that condition is to make his scorned adoptive Sister a part of the deal.....

That also had the effect that Katarina would still be under the Protection of house Claes

Which would make Geordo unable to harm her in the same way he did with the trial

Something else are now constantly having a discussion in Stranger Wager's comment section

So the least we could do is ask her if she want to take part in or if she even is okay with it,

Do you agree?

R (Guest) on Chapter 1Thu 06 Oct 2022 11:36PM CEST

I would

I didn't notice to be frank, you mentioned Keith directly in one comment prior to this...

Yes he is affection starved as well, and according to Bakarina:

"When he grew up he became quite the playboy in order to bury his loneliness and when he entered the academy, he met the heroine. The heroine healed his lonely heart and became the first person Keith ever truly loved..."

Hamefura Chapter 2

It's not like Keith believed that Maria would save him, it's more like she saved him and them he fell for her.

But i agree that he would accept Katarina in that cenário for three reasons:

1 - Maria saved him so it would be hypocrite of him to not let her save Katarina.

2 - If the misundestanding is cleared and Katarina apologised, he is capable of giving her a chance (verge of destruction shows that).

3 - That would make Maria happy, and maybe that is enough.

I agree with the last part too (this is the longest dicussion i participated in that didn't involve the autor lmao)

AlmDragonrend on Chapter 1Fri 07 Oct 2022 12:36PM CEST

I just informed the Author

I'm happy we can go with that

Assuming Maria successful used her knowledge to get Geordos engagement with Katarina broken and get engaged to both Claes siblings how do you see it go from there?

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