#katara hating him is NEVER portrayed as her being in the wrong

[bluespiritshonour]

I think the real reason Zuko is my favourite is because he started out as an antagonist. And then became a protagonist.

I love the tortured character. And I love the dark and edgy aesthetic—but purely as that, an aesthetic.

The problem, however, is that that aesthetic comes with the brand of male characters that are never narratively challenged. They're the poster children of cishet men with power in real world and they're just uwu wet kittens.

I know certain parts of the fandom treat Zuko like that—but that's not what canon did. The narrative doesn't brush his wrong doings under the rug—which is where we come into the antagonist aspect. It's because he starts out as a bad guy, the narrative never has to defend him—his whole deal is that he was wrong.

I think this whole thing happens because people (writers included) confuse protagonists and heroes. Your protagonist can be a jerk, but you have to narratively hold him accountable for that. Whether you redeem him or not.

But they never do that! Because that would mean your protagonist was never a hero!

Well, you wrote him to be a jerk, of course he ain't a hero. Why are you trying to bend the narrative to accomodate him when you didn't set him up as such?

In Zuko I had all the characteristics I like in that particular genre of character, without undue apologism. He's wrong and the narrative doesn't shy away from it. Eventually he gets better.

Honestly it's refreshing...

I like that we got this character archetype, because let's be honest, Zuko is a character archetype—but we didn't have to see it through a male-gaze. I call it male-gaze because these kind of characters are always men.

[sokkastyles]

I just stumbled upon a post that complained about fans having Jet forgive Iroh or working at the jasmine dragon and compared it to Katara forgiving Yon Rah and aside from the fact that I have never seen a take like that, the outrage over it is so manufactured because even if those takes did exist, they do because Jet and Iroh are ultimately on the same side, not because Jet needs to forgive people who harmed him to be a good person. Aang asking Katara to forgive her mom's murderer is wrong because Yon Rah never did anything to deserve forgiveness and the only reason he is not continuing to harm others is because he is retired. Having Jet and Iroh working together, instead of against each other, which is ultimately what leads to Jet's death, is actually a good thing. It also takes the onus off of Jet to offer forgiveness because Iroh would be the one actively seeking it and is already remorseful about the things he did and worked to put things right, which Yon Rah never did. Jet and Iroh working together to heal the damage the Fire Nation caused would actually be a good thing.

I mean, there's an obvious difference and nuance in how this narrative would need to be portrayed, but like? Insisting that Jet would hate all fire nation people forever beyond reason, even if they were instrumental in ending the war (which was his goal all along), actually furthers the idea that he's the problem for being hurt and that he's the one being unreasonable. Let's give Jet some humanity here and assume that, like Katara, he would be capable of distinguishing between someone who is not sorry for the hurt they caused and someone who is actively trying to make amends. He just never got the chance to see that with Iroh and Zuko. But post series? You think he would still hate them? Is this because you really think that's a moral take or is it because you're engaging in fandom identity politics? Especially since what Jet actually wanted before he died was to make amends and move past the person he was who was unable to see the difference between an enemy and an innocent and hurt and manipulated his allies because of it.

I'm not gonna get too far into the politics of Jet working for Iroh especially since I have never seen a take like this and it can certainly be done distastefully if not done carefully, but Jet working for Iroh in the tea shop to raise money to send to parts of the Earth Kingdom that were devastated by the war and provide housing for disenfranchised families? That would rock, actually. It's a shame that that didn't happen, especially since Iroh did support Jet when Jet expressed that he wanted to change. It would be a good thing if Jet had an adult like Iroh helping him heal in addition to the good they could do together for the rest of the world. Especially since post series, there is no reason for them to be against each other, even if Jet never "forgave" Iroh. Unless you think Iroh's atonement isn't sincere, which is not something that is worthy of debating, honestly.

[i-am-suffer]

I’m going through the anti Aang tag rn and…. sigh….. there’s so much bull shit….. like people can have whatever opinions they like but so many of them are based off of unbelievably shallow takes on Aang’s character and character arcs. People are choosing to hate a fictional child because they can’t be bothered to see anything other than the worst in him. So now, in a fit of saltiness, I will be debunking some of the recent Aang criticism I’ve found.

Firstly:

Huh???? Whoever you are, anon, I think you’re the one who doesn’t know what good character writing is. Aang isn’t my all-time favorite, and he’s not always written consistently, but he still manages to tell a compelling story of a boy who, even after the genocide of his entire people and with the weight of the world on his shoulders, still manages to hold on to his happiness, his kind spirit, and his morals. And even though he makes mistakes (mistakes that his antis refuse to stop screaming about) he’s still a good person. Not even deep down, either, it’s right there for everyone to see. Which makes it doubly frustrating when people ignore that obvious fact.

Secondly:

Okay, so the context of the comic panel is this: Aang is mulling over his feelings for Katara, and he’s a little sad. Katara walks in, wanting to train with him, but he says he doesn’t want to. Katara thinks he needs to train, especially his firebending — and she’s not wrong — but then she starts throwing water at him and asking him to spar with her. So Aang, frustrated, does some firebending. That’s about where the comic panel is taken from. Taken out of context like that, he looks like he’s about to attack her, but he doesn’t. He actually gets really scared about almost hurting her and asks her if she’s okay. So, thank you for showing the whole unbiased truth, and not ignoring any parts that show things that contradict your opinions on any characters, tumblr user the-badger-mole. You clearly know the importance of reading the entire story before forming said opinions.

*deep breath* Okay. Now let’s talk about the Ember Island Players.

I don’t think Aang kissing Katara was a good decision for the writers to make. In my opinion, Aang was being ooc. They also should have shown him apologizing to Katara afterwards (which I definitely think happened because why else would Katara make the decision to be with him in the last episode?) But even onscreen, Aang isn’t portrayed as being in the right, and he’s clearly shown regretting his actions. He hits himself and calls himself stupid, and he was miserable for the rest of the episode. It was a mistake on his part, and he’s incredibly guilty about it. And it’s important for shows aimed at kids to show characters making mistakes they could make, teaching them not to do those things. That being said, I don’t think Aang traumatized Katara by kissing her. If he had, she wouldn’t have come back to him, and she wouldn’t have initiated the kiss in the finale. Katara is not the type of person to resign herself to a life of assault, and Aang is not the type of person who would knowingly assault someone, especially not someone he cares about as much as he does for Katara.

Which leads into the next criticism:

I am flabbergasted. What do you mean he never helped Katara with her problems? Who was willing to drop everything to take someone he had just met all the way across the world so she could learn waterbending? Who stood up for her when Pakku was being a misogynist? Who comforted her when she was crying about being forced to bloodbend? Who gave up the chance for ultimate power because her life was in danger? And that’s just what I can list off the top of my head. And of course he empathized with her! Also, the kiss at the invasion wasn’t assault. It may have taken Katara by surprise, but it wasn’t assault. Just say you don’t like Kataang and leave it at that.

Fourthly:

It wasn’t handed to him. The lionturtle was foreshadowed in season two, in the Library episode. And stop acting like a thirteen-year-old killing a man with his hands is the best solution. Taking a life is deeply traumatizing, whether or not it’s justified.

Fifthly:

I can only think of one time where the pan-up thing happened, in the fortune teller episode (lmk if I’m wrong tho). Getting flustered when your crush looks pretty is not a crime like these people say it is. Also, Aang literally travelled across the world with Katara and has seen her at her worst, and yet people still have the audacity to claim he doesn’t know her as a person? And don’t try to tell me he doesn’t respect her (“A herd of rhinos… or two waterbenders” —Aang).

Next:

Bro. This boy had his entire people killed, including his father figure and all his friends, and just when he’d made two new friends, they were given an opportunity to leave him and seemed to want to. He was afraid of losing Sokka and Katara! He didn’t hide the map out of malice. Plus, he was going insane with guilt the whole time he was hiding it! Sure, it was presented in a comedic light, but he was clearly suffering! And when he got found out and his friends understandably got angry and left, he didn’t try to stop them! He didn’t care about attention, he cared about his friends. (Plus that whole episode was really poorly written, not just with Aang.)

Okay, that about wraps things up. Thank you for reading my long, salty post. I’m going to put this in the anti Aang tag in an attempt to get the antis to actually think about their opinions for once >:3 To my fellow Aang Aapreciators, I congratulate you on your good taste. Love you guys <3

[waterfire1848]

*Pokes my head out from under the covers and slowly emerges back into society*

Yeah. I agree. Katara can, and should, be mad at Azula but I've seen people take it so far. I can see that. Katara wants to be mad at Azula and have a face to for that anger (since it's not Zuko anymore and she never met Ozai), but then she sees that Azula's just a kid like her (only a few months younger or older) and can't find it in her to hate her.

Again, I think Katara could see this but it would take time. Yes, you're 100% right that Azula was operating on Ozai's orders but Katara almost lost her friend, someone she loved, to Azula and Zuko. That's not something she can get over in a day. Once she sees though how deeply traumatized and brainwashed Azula is she'll start to understand though.

"I also find it hard to believe that a nation raised on their own superiority immediately accepted Zuko being Fire Lord and ending the war." You're right. I have to believe that there would be so many coups after Zuko took power. So many people would protest and riot in Caldera because they don't accept Zuko as their Fire Lord and want someone else on the throne. Also another good reason to have Azula be an advisor to Zuko rather than portraying her as a villain. In real life, if she, the prodigy daughter of the Fire Lord and someone who brought great honor to the Fire Nation, told the people that Zuko was okay to rule then there would be more people willing to follow him.

The Fire Nation tried for 100 years to conquer the world and, on top of that, everyone probably lost family to this war that said they were the supreme nation. I can't see people hearing their Fire Lord, the person who is supposed to speak for them, say that they were wrong (which they were) and the war is over and they're no longer supposed to think of themselves as superior and that they never were. Not only are you asking generations of people to forget everything they were raised to believe but you're also telling people who lost family that the people who died basically died for nothing.

Fellow Azula redemption fan?

Of course!

Azula deserves a great redemption arc (and not whatever the Search was trying to do) and a place with the Gaang. She was a 14 year old child who had a literal mental breakdown because everyone around her kept leaving her and the writers big solution to that? Throw her in a mental hospital and never use her character again unless the comics need a villain.

Ngl, I half suspect that the reason they kept Azula's ending ambiguous was so they could use her as a villain again if they needed to. Cause why take the time and effort to write a new villain or craft Azula as an interesting addition to the Gaang when you can just make her a crazy villain?

[innocentimouto]

Jet and Hama were done dirty by the show

There’s this emphasis on these two killing innocents as proof that they were portrayed fairly because they weren’t great people anyway.

What this basically means is that the oppressed victims of war who kill innocents and enemies are worse than the people 

who are killing innocents ONLY

who started the war

who erased an entire nation

who attack people not even involved in the war

who think they’re in the right

who don’t do anything to stop the war even if they realize it’s wrong

I’m talking about the Fire Nation. I see more people defending the writing of Jet and Hama than people criticizing how the entire Fire Nation was redeemed once the war ended.

It’s not just at the end of the show. Throughout the series, we see many Fire Nation characters have quirky/funny moments which is far more than any other nation. And they started the war. 

Sozin got half an episode of being human and he ordered the erasure of the Air Nomads. Genocide. And somehow Hama gets nearly the same treatment if not worse since we never even saw her speak in her flashback.

Yes Hama and Jet were done dirty. How does the man who started the war not get any hate/fear from Aang, the last airbender, but Jet and Hama get fear/derision?

Sozin’s story ends with Aang deciding every person deserves a chance and friendship can last lifetimes, but the moral of Jet and Hama’s story is to be careful of hating your oppressors or you’ll end up a monster.

Sozin compared to Hama and Jet aren’t even equal; they’re portrayed as worse.

Not everyone in the Fire Nation is evil. But the people who started the war should not be given more sympathy and forgiveness than the victims of war. 

There’s also the fact Hama and Jet were severely traumatized, and people either ignore this or argue it doesn’t change anything.

Zuko was also abused.

Zuko attached the Southern Water Tribe. He threatened the unarmed women and children. He ruined their homes. The Southern Water Tribe had been raided so many times before; it’s guaranteed everyone feared they would be killed.

 Zuko also set Suki’s village on fire, and it’s explicitly stated that they wanted to stay out of the war.

Zuko gets a pass for all of this in the name of trauma. I’m not only talking about characters giving him a pass because they kind of didn’t. I mean the narrative and fandom all forgave him long before he joined the Gaang.

Why? Zuko never even had a scene of thinking back to what he did and regretting it. Zuko didn’t even think to apologize until the last minute. Zuko couldn’t understand why Katara hated him, despite him attacking her home like Yon Rha did. It was never misplaced anger. He did exactly what the man who killed her mother did.

The point is, there was no scene of him caring about his mistakes until the Gaang forced him to, and the story was fine with that.

Zuko had trauma, but he didn’t need to do the things he did. I’m not saying it would be easy, but really, Ozai didn’t order his death if he didn’t capture the avatar. Zuko never even mentioned capturing the avatar for the Fire Nation. He betrayed the Fire Nation by freeing Aang so he could capture him himself. So it wasn’t for the nation either.

Point is, Zuko wasn’t going to die if he left Aang alone. He would be severely unhappy and struggling through years of abuse and unlearning propaganda, which is basically what Book 2 was minus everything but unhappiness, but he would be fine.

Zuko was never forced to chase the avatar. And I look at Zuko very critically, but it does make sense why he chased Aang. He wouldn’t have died if he didn’t though.

Jet on the other hand.

Jet chose to live in a forest away from the Fire Nation. The Fire Nation took over Gaipan and then had soldiers regularly passing through the forest. Jet was forced to do something. The way he did it was wrong, but it’s not like he chose to do it for selfish or unnecessary reasons.

“Oh Jet could have just left.”

Yeah, and travel to any other part of his nation that was being colonized. Anyway, he literally did that by going to BSS and even if he didn’t bother Zuko and Iroh like everyone wanted him to, it would have been taken over  in a few weeks anyway.

Hama was taken from her home and imprisoned in horrible conditions with no way out for decades. I feel like we skip over the implications of what she and her people had to face if they tried to escape. Regardless you can’t come out of that situation and not develop an extreme hatred to the people who did it to you.

That’s years and years of trauma. Even if you argue  it’s different because she’s an adult while Zuko was a child, Hama became an adult in prison. 

I don’t agree with Hama’s actions; I just don’t think the show should have went in that direction without even having Indigenous people involved. The implications of what she did to Fire Nation civilians is horrifying. But the disgusting way she was written is what bothers me the most.

In comparison to the Fire Nation, Jet and Hama were not portrayed fairly. And if the next point is that the two were side characters, then I have to ask:

Why do the victims of war get less time than the perpetrators?

Jet and Hama are side characters. They’re not meant to get much time. That’s fine. It still doesn’t change how they’re the only two victims of war who hate the Fire Nation viciously and were in helpless situations most of their life and got very little parts but enough to demonize them.

Hama’s story ends with her imprisoned which is problematic, and Jet’s story ends by being gaslit, brainwashed, and killed by an earthbender.

Not a firebender. What’s the lesson there? He was too angry, too obsessed, too crazy. It wasn’t the Fire Nation. It was Jet not controlling himself. Take him away from the war and he’d still be a problem.

Hama and Jet’s entire lives were uprooted and destroyed by the Fire Nation and one ends back where her brothers and sisters rotted away while the other ends in a pointless, forgotten death, and the Fire Nation get no blame for causing all their pain and even their “evilness” if you want to go there.

[firelxdykatara]

gods, ok, apparently i’m not done.

atla fandom? we need to have a chat.

(....ok that made me sound pretentious as fuck. and maybe i am, but this needs to be said, cause i’m getting....real, real tired of a Certain Corner of this fandom and as a result, this is gonna be a discourse-heavy post so feel free to scroll past if that’s not your bag. as always, my salt posts all carry the catch-all #salt for ts tag, which you’re free to blacklist/filter at your leisure. i’m Very Annoyed at the moment, which will probably come through in the following post, so just. yknow. be prepared for that. or ignore it, that’s perfectly valid too.)

under a cut bc i do care for my followers and their sanity i swear lmao

there’s a real serious issue in this fandom with not understanding what queer terminology actually means or implies, especially when applied to a fictional narrative.

i’m specifically talking about ‘coding’, here. (if i were in a more meme-y mood, i might have said ‘the atla fandom found out about the term “gay-coding” and haven’t shut up since’.)

to the people who say ‘zuko is gay-coded’, i have this to say: you keep using that word. i do not think it means what you think it means. because he isn’t. i’m sorry, but he’s not! and the fact that this is such a prevalent claim in this fandom is distressing, bc it says to me that none of y’all know what gay-coding is or when and how to apply it! please, i’m begging you, go and look up these terms and what they mean and when they should be used before actually trying to plug them into your critical analysis, because when you misuse them and then call other people delusional for disagreeing with you it casts a pall over the entire fandom and is, i think, the root of some of the worst toxicity this fandom has to offer.

and the thing is, there are cases where gay-coding would apply--for instance, a couple series that are famous for queerbaiting their audience by coding their main characters as being attracted to one another (sometimes even despite their openly stated sexualities) come to mind, but those shows bare no similarities at all to atla and how zuko was written and portrayed! (and it would be funny, if it weren’t so obnoxious and infuriatingly wide-spread throughout the fandom, because the only queer couple we actually seen on-screen in either show wasn’t even queer-coded in any respect, and they’re canonically bi! [yes, i’m shading korrasami, or more accurately i’m shading bryke for refusing to give ka the build-up and development they deserved].)

this absolutely isn’t to say that headcanoning zuko as gay is a bad thing or invalid in any respect. (although the tendency for zukka shippers to do this specifically to keep zuko away from katara and/or invalidate his canon relationship/attraction to girls is more than a little eyebrow raising. especially since sokka is usually allowed to be bi, bc fans have no problem letting sukka stay in the background bc it’s no real threat, while jetko shippers are happy to have both boys be bi. [possibly bc katara is less a threat to jetko bc jetkotara is every bit as valid as any single ship between the three, but zukka can’t exactly let katara join in, and if the potential exists for zuko to be attracted to her then canon giving them the far deeper emotional bond becomes a threat to zukka’s existence? idk for sure--you be the judge.]) i prefer to hc zuko as bi (and always have, long before the atla renaissance), bc i don’t think zuko being attracted to boys is outside the realm of possibility, and it isn’t a threat to my ship since zuko&katara had a deep and emotional bond in canon that is very easy to develop further into something that becomes explicitly romantic--but the headcanon itself isn’t really the problem (although what it’s often in service to can be).

it’s the strange insistence that this is the only way to read his character, bc he was coded that way and so anyone who doesn’t see it must be too straight to understand--and i really shouldn’t have to say why and how that is so incredibly fucking insulting. (the ‘hetero lenses’ comment wasn’t cute when it came from bryke six years ago, and the same sentiment being repackaged and delivered by zukka shippers ain’t cute now.)

calling zuko gay-coded not only demonstrates ignorance as to what the term actually means, and how to usefully apply it in critical analysis, but also validates the frankly bullshit insertion of institutionalized homophobia in the world of atla where it was neither needed, nor wanted, nor ever hinted at in canon. as a queer woman i’m still infuriated by one fucking comic panel shoving institutionalized and systemic homophobia into a world where it was entirely unnecessary (and doing this in the first installment of the franchise showcasing a queer relationship??? making korra and asami worried about ‘coming out’ when they could have just gone on to have cute adventures together and tell people ‘hey we’re dating’ and have everyone else be ‘that’s awesome =DDD’ [because it is, in fact, possible to just have a world without homophobia i promise!!!!!] double yikes, i’m still pissed at bryke about it), and i doubly hate that ‘zuko is gay coded’ has become so widespread that ‘ozai hates him bc he’s gay’ has become a staple in that part of the fandom.

not only does making zuko gay and implying (or outright stating) that ozai hated and abused him because of it completely undermine zuko’s character arc by making his abuse about his sexuality rather than ozai’s toxic pride and anger at seeing himself reflected in his ‘weak’ son, but it comes very close to outright stating that abuse and trauma are inherently gay experiences, and they aren’t!!! they really aren’t, i promise!!!

abuse and trauma narratives exist outside of ‘my dad hates me because i’m gay’. and, quite frankly, there are MORE THAN ENOUGH queer trauma narratives out in the world. we do not need to start trying to retroactively make them canon in a series where they didn’t exist! if you’re gay and see yourself in zuko and project your own experiences on him, that’s understandable and valid. that does not make zuko gay-coded. and honestly, the insistence that he is makes very little sense to me, because you’re essentially trying to give the show credit for work you put into interpreting the characters! why would you want to do that? why not own your own headcanons and take credit for them, rather than insisting they are canon and everyone else is wrong for not seeing them??? like, i’ve said before that i’ve always headcanoned zuko (and katara) as bi, and even support it with my interpretations of evidence from the show, but the difference between ‘i think zuko is bi’ and ‘zuko is definitely gay-coded’ is that i know that bi zuko is my interpretation of canon, and that it is work i’m putting into the show that wasn’t actually intended by the creators/writers, no matter how much sexual tension i read into the jetko swordfight.

and like, zuko’s character arc doesn’t actually parallel a queer one all that well to begin with. it’s easy enough to do the work and twist it sideways just enough to make the general points fit, but the fact is, zuko’s arc is not one of self-discovery. it’s not one of coming to understand something fundamental about himself that he can’t change, that he was hated for, and coming out to his father in a dramatic confrontation where he shows that he understands himself and doesn’t need his father’s acceptance to be fulfilled.

zuko’s arc is actually one of trauma and healing. and those can (and often are--like i said, there are more than enough queer trauma narratives in the world, atla really doesn’t need to be one of them) be part of queer narratives, for sure! but they aren’t uniquely queer. and zuko’s confrontation with ozai during the eclipse doesn’t read like a ‘coming out’ at all. (yes, i’ve seen that post. yes, i rolled my eyes and moved on, bc unlike some people, i’m capable of not clowning on correctly tagged posts i disagree with.) zuko is specifically confronting ozai over his abuse, because his arc wasn’t about discovering anything fundamental about himself (and therefore realizing that ozai was hating him for something he couldn’t change)--it was about realizing that he was not at fault for the way his father treated him. it was also about realizing that the fire nation was broken and corrupt at its core, and that his father was an aspect of that he needed to break away from so that he could help the world begin to heal.

he says it himself:

Zuko: No, I've learned everything! And I've had to learn it on my own! Growing up, we were taught that the Fire Nation was the greatest civilization in history. And somehow, the War was our way of sharing our greatness with the rest of the world. What an amazing lie that was. The people of the world are terrified by the Fire Nation. They don't see our greatness. They hate us! And we deserve it! We've created an era of fear in the world. And if we don't want the world to destroy itself, we need to replace it with an era of peace and kindness.

making this about zuko being gay and rejecting ozai’s homophobia, rather than zuko learning fundamental truths about the world and about his home and about how there was something deeply wrong with his nation that needed to be fixed in order for the world to heal (and, no, ‘homophobia’ is not the answer to ‘what is wrong with the fire nation’, i’m still fucking pissed at bryke about that), misses the entire point of his character arc. this is the culmination of zuko realizing that he should never have had to earn his father’s love, because that should have been unconditional from the start. this is zuko realizing that he was not at fault for his father’s abuse--that speaking out of turn in a war meeting in no way justified fighting a duel with a child.

is that first realization (that a parent’s love should be unconditional, and if it isn’t, then that is the parent’s fault and not the child’s) something that queer kids in homophobic households/families can relate to? of course it is. but it’s also something that every other abused kid, straight kids and even queer kids who were abused for other reasons before they even knew they were anything other than cishet, can relate to as well. in that respect, it is not a uniquely queer experience, nor is it a uniquely queer story, and zuko not being attracted to girls (which is what a lot of it seems to boil down to, at the end of the day--cutting down zuko’s potential ships so that only zukka and a few far more niche ships are left standing) is not necessary to his character arc. nor does it particularly make sense.

(and before anyone brings up his date with jin--a) he enjoyed it when she kissed him, and b) he was a traumatized, abused child going out on a first date. of course he was fucking awkward. have you ever met a teenage boy????)

anyway, uh, that was a lot of words, so have a tl;dr: zuko is not gay-coded. there is nothing uniquely gay (or even uniquely queer) about his character arc or characterization, and he was certainly not coded gay in an attempt to sneak a queer character past the censors. if anyone involved with atla was gonna try that, it would’ve been in lok, and as established, they didn’t even manage to queer-code the actual queer relationship before the last few minutes of the final episode. headcanoning zuko as gay is absolutely fine (though if it’s only done to keep him away from female characters he may otherwise be attracted to, that smells more like misogyny than anything else), but insisting that this reading is the only one that makes sense, and anyone who doesn’t agree must be straight (hello, queer woman here making this insanely long thinkpiece) is very much not.

ship what you like, but stop trying to invalidate other ships and other interpretations of characters just to make your ship seem more plausible. it’s really not a good look.

[meta-enthusiasm]

You know what I am really fucking tired of seeing in popular media?

The "evil, hysterical woman in power" trope. The clichè that potrays women who are in a position of power as overzealous, unhinged, power hungry maniacs who are a ticking time bomb waiting to explode.

Female leaders are shown as less resonable and down to earth as their male counterparts, and are often villainized by either the fandom or the narrative of the story itself. They are doomed to fail because of their womanliness and need to be taken down before they enact their evil plans, preferably by a man, or a woman who performs the 'right' kind of femininity.

This trope relies on the sexist misconception that women are more fragile than men, more emotionally unstable and unpredictable.

"Women aren't cut out to be leaders, they should be nurturing and supportive and tend to their families. Having higher aspirations is against their nature and will eventually break them and drive them crazy."

That type of bullshit that was designed to keep women out of leadership positions and keep oppressing us. To keep us quiet and submissive.

Here are a few examples to further explain this stereotype:

Daenerys Targaryen is one of the most well known characters to fall victim to this trope. She is an abuse and rape victim, seeking to change the current social and political systems of the world because she knows how many people suffer under its injustice. ("Crush the wheel.")

For all her compassion and charity she has shown over the series, the writers decided that it would be reasonable for her to go crazy at the end of the show and, despite promising she wouldn't inflict more damage than necessary, kill thousands of innocent people whose government had already surrendered to her.

And guess who had to kill her in the end? Yup, another man. Her love interest, who was "forced" to betray her.

Next, we have:

Morgana Pendragon, from "Merlin". To remind you, she is an abuse victim who had to endure her father's controlling behavior and bigoted attitude towards people with magic abilities which, suprise suprise, she turned out to have. She had to watch as her father murdered and oppressed people just like herself, and when she challenged that behavior, he would come down hard with punishment. (Going so far as to actually throwing her in the dungeons for a couple days.)

Eventually, she rebelled against the corrupt system and had her genocidal father killed. She led a rebellion against Camelot after Uther's son (Arthur) continued to oppress magicians under his reign, and sought to create a better future for herself and her people.

So far so good, right? Well, no. The problem here is that she is the antagonist of the story. She is portrayed as being in the wrong for not quietly taking the injustice and watching it happen.

Halfway through the show, she becomes obsessed with power and status and desperately chases after the throne of Camelot. She is extremly vindictive, manipulative and cruel to others to archieve her goals. She is a "hysterical woman" who is out of control, emotionally unstable, challenges the patriarchy, and therefore needs to be defeated.

Her death was portrayed as tragic, yet absolutely necessary.

(Of course it had to be a man who killed her.)

Azula is the epitome of this horrid, misogynistic trope. She is a fierce, ambitious leader and highly skilled fire bender, respected and feared among her people. She is highly driven and succeeds at almost everything she sets her mind to.

Ever since she came into this world, she was better at everything than Zuko. She was a better fighter than him, a better bender, better strategist, better child. And that is precisely the reason why she had to lose in the end.

Despite coming from the exact same circumstances as Zuko, the story and the fandom at large see Azula as way less redemable and likable than him. Even though she is an abuse victim whose own mother hated her and is a literal child soldier, she doesn't get any sympathy from the protagonists of the story. The otherwise so understanding and wise Iroh even calls her "crazy", (which is, if you've done some basic research into misogynistic expressions, really fucking problematic.) and tells Zuko that there is no saving her. Why? He doesn't tell, but it's obvious that the writers made him say this because of their own internalized sexist beliefs. She isn't offered a way out of her toxic environment like Zuko was. She didn't get the support from Iroh because he had already given up on her.

To top it off, she has a nervous breakdown near the end and loses her remaining sanity. Because, you know, "She's craaaazy!! And SO unstable!! Typical woman." (Not to mention how this further stigmatizes mental illness and portrays it as something only evil people get.)

She was supposed to become the next fire lord, a position that carries utmost power and influence. Of course, such authority could not be given to a woman. That's why Zuko, a man, gets to be the next fire lord, and we are left assuming Azula will be spending the rest of her days in prison.

The writers assume the audience detests Azula and wants her to suffer. She doesn't deserve a happy ending, or the love and support that Zuko got.

Why? Because she poses a threat to the status quo, the patriarchy. She challenged the belief that men had to be the best and most efficient at everything they do, that women could indeed be better leaders and be happy with having a career and not be nurturing, motherly figures to the men in their lives. And for that transgression, for breaking gender stereotypes, Azula was punished.

(It's also why Katara, someone who performs the "right" kind of femininity by being nurturing, motherly, supportive, healing, doting, and is the care taker of the group, ends up taking Azula, the evil and perverted form of femininity, down. I believe @batboyblog has made a similar post about this.)

This is Carmilla from the popular Netflix show "Castlevania", and if you've payed attention to my previous points, it should be pretty obvious what her character represents and how her story ends.

Note that she is also an abuse and rape survivor who is represented as evil and cruel for being angry at what was done to her.

To top it off, she is also an example of the man hating woman stereotype, whose anger at the misogyny and sexism of the world is portrayed as an "overreaction" and as "too much".

At the end of the story, she had to be taken down by another man (Isaac) so that the status quo could be preserved, and the reign of a crazy bitch like her could be stopped. Horay, the day is saved from yet another unstable, selfish woman who would have brought suffering and pain over her country if allowed to rule. Hysterical women with their demand for equality.

Conclusion:

In all these examples, we can see female abuse victims thriving for power and status, for respect, being represented as something negative and something to avoid. Trying to fundamentally change a system that is rigged against women/female representing people is a fruitless endevour that will eventually fail and drive us crazy, because our minds aren't strong enough to handle this type of responsibility and status.

Holding on to anger and bitterness over what was done to us is the sign of a bad person, and the only morally acceptable path is to forgive/ignore our abusers and let the injustice continue to happen.

Strangely enough though, that same gaslighting, victim blaming mentality gets almost never applied to male characters. Men who seek vengeance are never portrayed as weak or crazy for giving in to the wish of changing a corrupt system/killing bad people. (Batman, the Punisher, Hawkeye, John Wick, Jason Todd, Erin, Scar from FMAB, Iron Man, and so on)

The reason why these stereotypes almost never apply to men but almost always to women is sexism. There is no other explanation for this. These tropes were specifically designed to make society believe that women aren't cut out for leadership positions and are happiest with domestic, easy tasks like watching after our children and taking care of the household.

Women who are angry, women who are dominant are to be feared and distrusted. They are represented as a danger to the general public and need to be taken down before they enact their evil plans.

Feel free to add further examples.

[thinkingisadangerouspastime]

(pt 1) i really enjoy all your atla analyses & you've done a great job breaking down the usual arguments re how eip shows that kataang shouldn't have happened. i'm curious about your take on one specific argument that i just saw today, in an analysis of the show by a zker that was otherwise quite good and respectful (i know you've already talked about eip a lot, so no problem if you don't feel like rehashing). the premise: aang didn't just pressure katara in eip, he threatened her.

(pt 2) they point to when katara joins aang & asks if he’s alright: “aang: no, i’m not! i hate this play! katara: i know it’s upsetting, but it sounds like you’re overreacting. aang: overreacting? if i hadn’t blocked my chakra, i’d probably be in the avatar state right now!” the suggestion is he’s threatening her when he says ‘i’d probably be in the avatar state right now’ to describe his anger. i think this take exaggerates and oversimplifies it, but interested in your thoughts on it.

Hello my friend!! It is true I am Old inside and don’t like rehashing dhdlksjslks BUT your comments on my posts are always incredibly kind and insightful so I am more than willing to do a bit of rehashing for you 🥰 Besides! I’ve seen this general take before a few times and it’s always irked me for the exact reason you point out - it simultaneously exaggerates and oversimplifies the situation (and honestly that’s an impressive duality since it’s seemingly contradictory, so hats off to them lmaooo) - and now is as good a time as any to address it. So, for starters, let’s go ahead and get the excerpt they love to focus on so much:

Cut to Aang standing alone on a balcony. Katara enters and walks up to him.

Katara: Are you all right?

Aang: [Angered.] No, I’m not! I hate this play! [Yanks his hat off and throws it on the ground.]

Katara: I know it’s upsetting, but it sounds like you’re overreacting.

Aang: Overreacting? If I hadn’t blocked my chakra, I’d probably be in the Avatar State right now!

Here’s the thing about so-called analyses of this excerpt: in a manner extremely convenient to the poster, they never seek to contextualize this moment. (I mean, to do so would deplatform their entire “argument” - perhaps that’s why they avoid performing a full analysis?) So let’s avoid that pitfall from the start.

Firstly, below are some links to related posts; I’m going to do my best to summarize the most relevant parts, but for anyone who desires greater detail, I gotchu 😤

This post explains why EIP (the play, lol) is imperialist propaganda and is intended to belittle the entire Gaang.

This post explains how Aang never acted “entitled” to Katara’s affections, particularly in regard to EIP.

This post breaks down the infamous EIP kiss like Snopes Fact Checker, covering common misconceptions, important perspectives to consider, etc.

Alright. With that out the way, it’s time for some context.

Aang and Katara have this conversation on the balcony after watching 95% of “The Boy in the Iceberg,” a play chock-full of Fire Nation propaganda that demeans the entire Gaang in order to prop up the Fire Nation as superior (hence why the play ends with Ozai’s victory). Here is my general breakdown of Aang and Katara’s treatment in particular from a previous post:

- katara, an indigenous woman, is highly sexualized and portrayed as overly dramatic and tearful, because the fire nation objectifies women not of their own people and views them as less intelligent and less emotionally stable

- aang, the avatar, the sole survivor of the fire nation’s genocide of the air nomads who is incredibly in-touch with his spirituality and femininity, is portrayed as an overly-airy and immature woman. the fire nation portrays him with a female actor to demean him (like, that’s classic imperialistic propagandist tactics) and furthermore writing his character as a childish airhead reinforces the fire nation sentiment that the air nomads were weak, foolish people who did not deserve to exist in their world

In other words, these kids have just watched almost an entire play that preys upon their insecurities and depicts them using racist and sexist stereotypes about their respective nations. It is completely understandable that tensions might run a little high and that their interactions would not be as balanced as usual (Katara and Aang have a great track record of communicating well with each other, as it happens!).

So we have to keep that in mind when examining the aforementioned excerpt. But there are other factors to consider, too! Namely: they are kids. Children. Teens. Aang is 12, Katara is 14.

If we want to be scientific, a person’s brain doesn’t finish developing until they are 25, lmao, and the preteen/teen years are when the prefrontal cortex that controls “rationality,” “judgement,” “forethought,” etc. is still developing. This doesn’t mean Aang and Katara are irrational and make poor decisions 24/7 (obviously not), but it does mean that in an intense, highly emotional situation, like after watching a play that intentionally demeans them and depicts them as inferior, they are more likely to overreact, more likely to be emotional, and more likely to make mistakes. Like, I’m serious, lol. “Teens process information with the amygdala.” That’s part of the brain that helps control emotions! It’s why teens sometimes struggle to articulate what we’re thinking, especially in situations that require instinct/impulse and quick decisions, because we’re really feeling whenever we make those choices. Acting more on emotion. Our brains simply haven’t finished developing the decision-making parts, lmao.

In sum: Aang and Katara are both kids, not adults, and should be interpreted as such. This doesn’t negate their intelligence, because they are both incredibly smart and Aang is arguably the wisest of the Gaang, but they are human. Young humans. They have emotions, and we should not be so cruel as to assume they’d never act on them.

So taking that all together, we can now acknowledge the high stress Aang and Katara are under, understand why they might be upset (*cough* imperialist propaganda is hurtful *cough*), and examine how their youth might play into their emotional reactions. And funny thing - all analyses that come to the conclusion of Aang “threatening” Katara here do not usually bother with this context. I can’t imagine why!

And you know what, let’s add one more piece of context: Sokka states that Aang left the theater “like, ten minutes ago,” which is what cues Katara to go look for him on the balcony. The reason I mention this line is because to me, it suggests Aang knew he was more worked up than usual! He chose to separate himself from his friends so he could process his frustration! He did not take his anger at the play out on them; instead, he purposefully took time and space to be alone.

With that in mind, I don’t understand at all how Aang’s Avatar state quote could be interpreted as a threat? Canonly, Aang is someone who was aware enough of his frustration to separate himself from the others - yet the logical next step is him threatening Katara as a result? He knew his intense emotions were because of the play (which he says himself), so the logical conclusion is that he then pinned the fault on Katara? What?? Sorry, that interpretation has no textual basis, lmao. But I digress!

Aang tells Katara, “If I hadn’t blocked my chakra, I’d probably be in the Avatar State right now!” As you said, this is the line people point to in an attempt to justify their (baseless) conclusion that Aang is “threatening” Katara. So let’s bring in the two key pieces of context: imperialist propaganda and age. Given that Aang is 12, and given that Aang has just watched almost a full play that demeans him and everything his people stood for (and let’s not forget it also mocks his and Katara’s love for each other)…

His reaction is understandable. An exaggeration and needlessly dramatic, but understandable. He feels vulnerable and insecure and Aang is human. He is human and flawed and he overreacts here and I love that A:TLA shows how even our heroes, even people who are truly good at heart and in soul, can get overly upset (especially given the aforementioned circumstances!). Would Aang actually be in the Avatar state at that moment, had it been possible? Of course not! He’s young and he’s hurt and as such he says something dramatic to convey his anxieties and frustrations. The line is not meant to be taken literally, and seeing people do so despite all the factors that should be taken into consideration when analyzing it… Cue a long, tired sigh from me and so many other A:TLA fans.

And to be honest? I cannot fathom how people watch this episode and come to the conclusion that Aang is “threatening” Katara. To me, this episode - besides being a recap episode - is one that humanizes our cast even further. Aang snaps at Katara, kisses her when he shouldn’t (which the story appropriately treats as wrong). Katara pushes down her true feelings and retreats into herself, afraid to start a relationship with the boy she loves because she’s already lost him once before and can’t bear to do so again. Zuko further confronts the hurt he’s enacted upon others, especially upon Iroh. Toph practices being vulnerable and accepting vulnerability from others by conversing with Zuko. Sokka witnesses how others have erased his contributions and labelled him as nothing more than the token nonbender in the group. Even Suki learns that she is not the only person who holds a place in Sokka’s heart and that she can never replace what he has lost.

To watch this episode where our heroes must come to terms with how the Fire Nation deems them inherently inferior, with how they have more fights to overcome in the future with the Fire Nation than a single war, and to come to the conclusion that… that what, Aang is abusive? A monster? Irredeemable? That he would threaten his best friend, someone he loves in every way?

Wow. That says more than enough about the viewer, doesn’t it?

[roselevesque]

Over the last couple of months a discussion about the villainisation of radical movements within media has emerged and pretty often people bring up Hama and Jet as examples of this trend. I'm a person that doesn't agree that it can apply to ATLA and especially not for these two characters.

For one, people usually bring up Hama & Jet as examples of this trend, but it doesn't really work when one of them wasn't even part of the fight for liberation and the other was portrayed in the wrong for specific acts, not the overall mentality.

Hama's direct fight against Fire Nation forces stopped the moment she escaped prison. She forged a new identity and built a life for herself, but the trauma caused by everything she went through turned her towards a path of cruelty without justification. Kidnapping civilians did not help bring down the Fire Nation, forcing Katara to become the inheritor of her self-discovered bending branch against her wishes did not help in the fight and putting Aang and Sokka in danger for it certainly didn't.

Hama is the perfect example for what happens when scars can't be healed. Unlike what some may believe, pain does not make you stronger, especially when it's a wound left to seethe. It eats at you until the only way to fill in the gaps is to unleash the anger upon the world as Hama does. Hama is not villainised for being a survivor of Fire Nation genocide, her backstory speaks of a horrible tragedy not the making of a monster, what defines her into someone that shouldn't be admired is her current incarnation that does everything I've mentioned above.

Jet, however, is part of the fight against the Fire Nation, but he passes the threshold into considering every life associated with the enemy as inherently corrupt, thus not a great loss should it be extinguished. Jet is not wrong for hating the Fire Nation, is not for orchestrating operations against its forces or building up a rebel squad. What he is wrong about is his decision to sacrifice an entire town for his goals and hiding his true plan from his allies ( Aang & Katara ).

And his inability to separate himself from his hatred ( not forget it, but cross a line between that and himself when it's called for ) follows and haunts him even while trying to build a new path in Ba Sing Se. The problem is not that he kept an eye on potential threats, but that he let anger take a hold of him and push him towards a direct confrontation preceded by obsession. He couldn't truly look forward to this new life as consumed as he was. Such a situation is a topic ATLA often mulls over with its characters. In what measures does your past affect you? What should you let it define you and what not?

In the end, he is not the charming rogue, nor the one that went too far, but a victim in more ways than one and the one who helped our protagonists underground. Neither of these characters is presented as inhuman or not worthy of any sympathy, but merely a more tragic facet of the human experience.

For two, our main characters are fighters for the liberation that do not follow the authority. Aang was never meant to "Talk No Jutsu" Ozai into submission by bringing up the power of friendship and such. His own preferred solution to the problem is not it either and Team Avatar, from day 1, never tried to claim that achieving balance could only be done by appealing the the other Nations' tyrant. They break Earthbenders out of prison! They fight Fire Nation military forces almost everywhere they end up and are hunted for being a threat! They help the Northern Air Temple and Northern Water Tribe residents with their defence! They go against Ba Sing Se's censorship and reveal the truth to Kuei! They steal from and hide behind enemy lines before going ahead with an invasion plan! Aang and Katara destroy a factory affecting the environment to help civilians!

These are far from non-radical actions. What they are is non-extreme in their impact on people not involved on the war front. That is what differentiates them from Jet and even more so from Hama.

The question is not how to end the conflict, because standing up to the Fire Nation is the clear answer. The question is what are we willing to sacrifice? What is within our right to decide what should and should not be sacrificed? How does everything shape our mentality and is it for better or for worse?

[shinidamachu]

I haven't watched anything after ATLA, but I was shocked to find out that Zuko and Mai don't work out. What are your thoughts? Do you think the writers could have gone in a different direction or was it for the best?

I gotta be honest, you're not missing out much by not engaging with the extras. I only watched Legend of Korra and I don't really remember Mai even being mentioned on it.

They did give Zuko a daughter, though. Her name is Izumi. And even though they never explicitly revealed the mother to be Mai (or what was made of her), I just assumed she was the mother due to the remarkable resemblance:

Now, I haven't read the comics (nor will I ever), so if you're actually refering to them, my knowledge is very limited. But it is my understanding, from the metas I've read about them, that Zuko and Mai break up and make up, as it was their modus operandi in ATLA.

Mai not being around in LOK doesn't necessarily mean she's dead or that they broke up for good. The fate of their relationship was purposefully left open and they do end up together at the end of ATLA, so what happens after doesn't really matter since not everybody takes the comics or LOK as canon, anyway.

Now, since you asked for my opinion... I wasn’t shocked to find out about how they were portraying Maiko in the comics at all. First, because Bryke suck at writing romance. Second, because from the interactions in ATLA, this was more or less what I imagined their relationship would play out and that’s why I never shipped them.

MAIKO CRITICISM UNDER THE CUT!

The writers should have gone in a different direction, but in the ATLA finale. I love Zuko. And I love Mai. But I don’t like them as a couple because I think they are not fitted for each other. And I’m not just saying that because I’m a Zutara shipper, let’s get this out of the way right here, right now.

I’m saying this because I would rather they had ended up alone than together. Not only them, but Aang and Katara as well. They were all so young I feel like there wouldn’t be any harm for the story if no couples were canonized. 

Especially because, again: Bryke suck at writing love stories (with the notable exceptions being Yukka and Sukka) and romance was actually the less compelling part of ATLA.

More than that, if Zuko and Mai had to end up with a love interest, it shouldn’t have been each other because Maiko is actually a disservice to their characters. In some aspects, it keeps Mai from growing and it regresses Zuko's development.

You see, their relationship always struck me as something they would eventually grow out of. Don’t get me wrong, I have no doubt they really cared about each other. But the narrative went out of its way to show us that the years they spent apart changed their dynamic fundamentally.

Mai and (especially) Zuko aren’t the same people they were when they first met. And when they finally reunited, no real effort was made to learn who was this new person in fron of them. He tried to open up, but she shut him down. 

Instead of reconnecting, of deepening the relationship, they insisted on jumping head first into dating and picked things up where they left off, desperatelly trying to cling to what they knew and forcing two pieces of a different puzzle to click. Of course it wouldn’t work.

The person Zuko became needed someone passionate by his side. Someone he could open up to and confide in. Someone with the same sense of honor, of justice. Someone who understood him and his actions, who got how important it is for him to take the throne and right the wrongs of his country. Someone he could count on to help him get there. I guess we can all agree that this doesn’t sound like Mai.

The person Mai became needed someone who would focus on her and her needs for once. Someone who would have made her a priority. Someone who could actually see past her poker face. Someone who would take her away from the boring royal stuff she hates so much. I guess we can all agree that this doesn’t sound like Zuko, either.

When he took off to join the Gaang, he left the life style he had always known behind because it didn’t fit who he was anymore. He can’t go back from that. And this includes Mai. She is the personification of that life. And as much as they liked each other, being together just doesn’t make sense anymore. Especially because becoming Fire Lady inevitably traps her in the life she was trying to get away from. It’s one of the worst endings they could have given to these characters.

And the way it was executed? Even worse. They reconciled without as much as a conversation about what happened: his “betrayal”, the end of the war, what it means for their relationship, if their feelings were still the same. In fact, apparently Zuko kind of... completely forgot she was in prison and made no move to get her out because he had been too busy fighting Azula and taking lightning to the chest for Katara.

Mai isn’t even a part of the apotheosis of his arc. He got where he needed to be and she wasn’t one of the characters who activelly help him get there. This is very symbolic. And the apotheosis of her arc? Was saving him from Azula, but she didn’t did it because she understood his reasons and wanted to be supportive. She did it because he is the guy she likes. Which is fine, but not enough to “award” her with Zuko. There were feelings there, but they were never on the same page.

“Mai Alone,” is what she deserved. To travel the world on her own. A different place every day. Never the same, always moving. Maybe that way she would have seen the things Zuko did. Maybe this way she would have understood. And after tasting freedom, she would have realized she would have never want to be confined to palace walls ever again. Not for Zuko, not for anybody.

She would have been much happier as the first woman in the White Lotus or as a Bounty Hunter. A spy who, after seeing what the Fire Nation did to the world, finally found her calling by working on the shadows to make sure nothing will break the peace the Avatar and the Fire Lord managed to achieve.

And Zuko deserved the family he always wanted, with a partner who would not only put up with the political duties, but would have been thrilled to do so. Katara seems like the obvious choice here, but even Jin would have been a better fit.

Sometimes things aren’t meant to be and that’s okay. Zuko and Mai work better as friends.

[hishoukoku]

"your opinion on _____Kataang" . I genuinely wanna know why altho ik hate itYou can even choose not to answer this..

Okay...I've seen this one coming as I've thrown in hints (and anti posts) without fully explaining myself, so here goes.

I understand the things I might say may not be new, it's just my own POV as well.

Why I don't ship Kataang:

1. The crush:

Atla has thrown in crumbs of Aang developing a crush on Katara from early on, too early on. They set it up in a way that Katara is indifferent towards him, as anyone would be, there are bigger things at stake than romancing a child she just met.

Even so, you might think hah that's cute, except the forced crush narrative went at great lengths so that we don't forget who Aang's crush is and for whom he would foil the actually neatly setup main plot narrative (yk the one that should be more important)

It's almost as if there's no way to 'show not tell' this narrative, it's like there's no romantic spark or connection that would speak for itself in this relationship. Spoiler: there isn't.

Bryke needed to constantly remind us that "Aang likes katara (likes her 'like that..') don't forget guys, otherwise the ending we planned will make no sense." Spoiler: It doesn't!

2. Katara being Aang's guardian:

At the exact same time the big crush happens, we see Katara repeatedly being portrayed as Aang's motherly figure. If you think "wait I thought that was cute too" then I need to ask "In which way exactly?"

The sad truth is, women being written as their male partner's motherly figure has been happening ever since cishet male writers picked up a pen for the first time. Some people view this as typical normal behaviour.

I think it's unfair.

Unfair to whom? Mainly & more importantly, to Katara.

They deliberately set it up so that Aang is her rebellious child (but then also lover? helpno) that needs discipline and her 100% unbridled attention as to not stray from the right path or to lift him up when he's down.

Of course that alone is fine, Katara doesn't complain, she's the strongest of the group, she's been doing the same with Sokka since they were little, the responsibilities she carried, she did so proudly without question, for her brother.

So, is Aang her child when he loses focus and track of the real objective, when he's moody and afraid, when he can't tell right from wrong...and THEN her lover when he 'saves the world'?

Because 1. that's a bit F-ed and hypocritical and 2. that sounds like Katara would be his prize for having defeated the villain and carrying him all the way.

3. Lack of mutual trust and understanding:

Sure, they've known each other since episode one, sure they've been next to each other all the way, as we're all constantly being reminded...so how come after all that Aang cannot truly understand Katara's feelings and is so quick to judge and offer subjective advice when she's in real need of moral support, comfort and understanding.

I'm not saying he took her for granted when he himself had troubles but he took her for granted when h-

Aang dismissing and brushing off Katara's feelings and forcing his own views and beliefs, isn't proof of him caring for her. It's proof of him (most likely unknowingly, due to inexperience) belittling and suppressing her grief, until she forgets and forgives.

Which isn't what she needs, which is unhealthy.

I'm not blaming him per say, because he couldn't do better. He didn't understand her enough to do better in that situation. He never saw that side of Katara, because she wouldn't let him see it. She dealt with everything herself and took on with dealing with his problems and the responsibility he carried instead. (like a mother should). And that's fine, when the narrative is intended to show you this is who they are (see point 2) ), but it's not fine when the narrative has plans for them to have a 'love story(?)'

4. Inappropriate kissing + storming off like a child who has just shown his parent he's mad + cut to married ending?....... - need I say more here?

Anyway this got too long and I also tried to keep each point short. I admit, I wanted to do this for a while. So thank you for the ask, nonetheless.

ask game

[reinerispretty]

rotations. (zuko x f!reader) pt15

hehehe hiiii thank you so much for reading!! i hope you guys enjoyed the last part and this one! :) this one is more of a filler chapter!! we’ll get back to the good stuff in the next one :D

pt1

pt14

pt16

“I wanted to say sorry, again. When I left the Fire Nation, I didn’t want to see you because I didn’t want to see your disappointment. I was worried that maybe your father had said something that had made you change your mind about me.” 

(Y/N) had taken time bathing herself that night. The houses of the royal families were incredibly elaborate, so each room had its own bathroom. The water that ran from the taps was cold, since usually there was at least one firebending servant that would run around to heat the water. That night, (Y/N) was the firebending servant for her friends. Once she had heated everyone’s water, she trudged up the stairs to her own bathroom and began preparing her bath. 

It had been a long time since she had had a bubblebath. Luckily, she remembered where the servants used to put the soap and added an outrageous amount of hot water in the tub. Once the bubbles were to her liking, she slid inside and released a content sigh. 

The events of the day had eased the turmoil in her heart. While she was still recovering from the hurt that Zuko had caused her, the anger had subsided tremendously. (Y/N) could feel the tension that had been in her muscles ever since Zuko joined their group ease away as the hot water seeped into her skin. 

She didn’t know how long she had been in there, but the moon was high by the time she stepped out to dry herself off. She took one of the fluffy robes from the closet and wrapped herself in it. It felt a bit stiff, like it hadn’t been worn in a while, but it gave her some comfort. It reminded her of home.

A knock resounded against the wood door to her bedroom. Quickly, she opened it, revealing Zuko standing awkwardly in the hallway. 

“Oh,” she said. “Hi.” She still felt guilty from their fight earlier. She had gotten so angry and lost control, something she had never done before. She felt no better than the Fire Lord himself. 

“Hi,” Zuko said. He looked past her and into her room. “I noticed you picked your old room.” 

“Yeah, it’s the only one that felt comfortable.” She gave Zuko a weak smile. “Don’t tell Aang that he’s in Azula��s.” 

Zuko laughed his raspy, beautiful laugh. (Y/N’s) heart felt uncomfortable in her chest. Like it had grown too big. 

“It’s weird,” she continued. “Being back here. Everything was so different the last time I was here.” 

“Yeah,” Zuko agreed. “I know the feeling.” She knew that the last time he had been here was when he was still with Mai. He had visited the island with her, Azula, and Ty Lee. A reunion had happened, of sorts. Minus (Y/N). “Can I...come in?” 

She nodded, stepping to the side. He walked directly to the chair in front of the vanity, which was all the way across the room from where she would go to sit on her bed. The distance between them felt like miles. 

“I wanted to say sorry, again. When I left the Fire Nation, I didn’t want to see you because I didn’t want to see your disappointment. I was worried that maybe your father had said something that had made you change your mind about me.” 

“My father could never do that, Zuko.” 

“I know. And I think back then, I knew that too. But then I saw you with the Avatar, and we didn’t have the reunion that I wanted. It just made me so mad that you were fighting with the person that was preventing me from going home. I was so angry after we would fight. I felt like you were picking him over me. Then in Ba Sing Se, when you came to visit, I know I didn’t look like it, but I was so happy that day. But then underneath the palace, you were fighting against Azula and I. I had worked it into my head that you and Uncle were traitors. The entire time that I was back home and you were in prison, I couldn’t shake the feeling that I had done something wrong. I walked around the halls of the palace and it all felt fake, like something was missing. Now I realize that I had been wrong about everything. While I know it doesn’t excuse it, I wanted to tell you again how sorry I am.” 

(Y/N) blinked at him. She wasn’t quite sure what to say. Never in a million years would the Zuko she knew have expressed his thoughts so clearly. A lot had happened to them, to the both of them, since they had last been together like this. He had grown and changed into someone who learned from his mistakes and sought to rectify his wrongs. She hadn’t let herself see that when he first joined them.

“I forgive you.” Her voice was soft, but her gaze was piercing. Zuko felt like she was staring straight into his soul. “I’m sorry for being so mean to you when you first got here.” 

“You had every right to be.” 

“I didn’t, though. Even when I was at my angriest with you, I couldn’t truly believe that you were evil. Believe me, I tried. Everything that you did to hurt my friends and I should’ve made me hate you, but it didn’t. I think that it made me mad that I couldn’t fully be mad at you.” She bent her head down and looked at her hands. “I should have never, ever challenged you to an Agni Kai, Zuko. I was just so upset and once I started saying it, I just couldn’t stop. I would never actually want to hurt you.” 

“I know, (Y/N).” They stood at the same time. “It’s nice to be here. With you. When I was here before it felt...” He trailed off, leaving his sentence incomplete. 

She smiled. “As surprising as this sounds, it’s good to be back.” Zuko smiled. 

“I’ll uh, be in my room if you need me.” She nodded, shutting the door behind him as he walked out. She dressed in her pajamas and crawled into bed, turning on the side to face the empty wall. If she pretended hard enough, she was a kid again. Life was easy and all she had to worry about was mastering her newest firebending move. 

When she came downstairs the next day, Sokka was practically begging the entire group to go see a play about their lives. “C’mon!” He said. “It’ll be fun. We deserve to live a little!” 

And while the last thing (Y/N) wanted was to watch a play about herself, she came along anyway. It would be a lot better than sitting in the beach house by herself. The old memories that came flooding back whenever she turned a corner were too much sometimes. 

Despite coming to the island nearly every summer when she was younger, (Y/N) had never been to the theater. Her father and Zuko’s were always far too busy to deal with such frivolous things (meaning their children). 

They had chosen balcony seating, but who to sit next to was a serious question that was bothering (Y/N). The only open seats were by either Zuko and Sokka and while her relationships were improving with both, she wasn’t sure if she could spend two hours sat next to them. So she grabbed Aang by the shoulders and shoved him down into the seat next to Zuko. She took her own seat on the other side of Aang. 

“Thank you,” She whispered to him as the lights dimmed. Aang furrowed his brows in confusion and then shrugged. 

At the start of the play, (Y/N) was enjoying herself. Aang’s actor portrayed him as an idealistic child, which made her laugh. Katara’s character was always wailing about hope and Sokka’s was a bit cringy, but so was Sokka. But then, her character appeared on-stage. 

The actress portraying her tripped over her baggy Earth Kingdom clothes as she stumbled into Sokka’s character. “Wow,” Fake (Y/N) swooned, her eyes wide. “You’re so handsome!” 

(Y/N) shrank into her seat, hiding her face from her friends as they turned to look at her. 

“I live an amazing life up in my father’s mansion in this city. I have everything I could have ever asked for, but I am very selfish!” Her character smiled and put her hands on her hips. “That’s why I’ve decided to betray the Fire Nation and help the Avatar!” 

The audience booed at her. Throughout the rest of the play, all her character did was cry over how unfairly she had been treated by her nation. “And then!” Her character exclaimed. “They gave me bananas instead of the apples I had ordered from the servants!” Fake (Y/N) burst into tears. She did that a lot. 

When her character and Zuko’s encountered each other, her character burst into tears again. “Zuko! My one true love, who was taken away from me by the wretched Fire Nation! I am so happy to see you!” Her character leaned in for a kiss, but he pushed her face away. 

“I don’t talk to traitors!” Zuko’s character declared. This made Fake (Y/N) cry even harder. 

“Why--doesn’t--h-he---want--m-me?” Her character said between sobs. 

(Y/N) rolled her eyes and was so thankful when intermission arrived. She was the first out of her seat and waited outside the theater for her friends. 

“Wow!” Sokka said as he exited the theater. “That play’s amazing. So accurate! Except, my guy could use a few pointers.” 

“Accurate?” Katara scoffed, crossing her arms. “I beg to differ. My character is nothing like me.” 

“Sure,” Toph snorted. 

“I agree with Katara,” (Y/N) said, her face contorted into a frown. “I’m not anything like that character.” 

“Are you sure about that?” Toph asked with a smirk. (Y/N) punched her in the arm, her face turning red as she glanced at Zuko. He gave her a small smile. 

The play was all lies and she knew that. It took the most exciting parts of their adventures and amplified them for the stage. She knew she didn’t cry that much and she certainly had never called Zuko her one true love. Not out loud, at least. 

---

Tag List!

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[haitanirindo]

zvtara shippers want everyone to get on board of their “ultra progressive super feminist ship” lmao hell no. maybe zvtara wouldn’t be so despised by everyone else if their side of the fandom wasn’t batshit crazy and didn’t come up with like. god awful takes of all the characters in atla, including zuko and katara. like why would i want to join a fandom that’s so bitter all the time, that spends 90% of their time hating on other characters and ships. that pretends to be woke and “katara stans first” only to like, hc katara as a cheater and/or interpret her as a girlboss and reduce all of her canonically complex relationships with her friends and family as her being their mother. maybe i want to stay far away from a fandom that’s obsessed with painting a 12 yr old pacifist monk as an abuser and manipulator. or one that loves reducing sokka down from a canonical genius to himbo who can barely tie his own shoelaces and needs suki or katara to help him. or one that comes up with the wildest conspiracies like “the animators made Katara’s eyes take up 1/3rd of her face so that she could be in a relationship with aang.” zvtara shippers are like TWO posts away from unironically using the handmaiden-feudal lord metaphor, in which zukka is the “heteronormative” handmaiden and feudal lord ship while zvtara is the “queer and different heterosexual” relationship 😭

i already didn’t like zvtara as a ship but yeah, seeing the way zvtara shippers treat certain characters kinda made me despise that side of the fandom entirely. they act like katara finally getting some peace, settling down, and starting a family with aang is the absolute worst thing that could have happened to her. in terms of how she’s portrayed in LoK as “just a mother” as well as the world’s greatest healer... i don’t really see the issue. there’s nothing wrong with her being a mother, or a healer. there’s nothing wrong with her choosing to leave the fighting to the younger generation. she’s already been through so much, she deserves some rest. for zvtara shippers to say she was just a trophy wife or “aang’s baby making machine” is disgusting and misogynistic as hell. the popular headcanon among them that she’d cheat on aang with zuko is awful and so out of character. canon katara would never cheat on her husband and canon zuko would absolutely not sleep with his best friend’s wife. they claim to love these characters but it doesn’t seem like they have very much respect for them. they treat aang like a villain and call him a “misogynist” but then shove him into a relationship with toph... make it make sense.  for them to ship aang with toph just to get him out of the way of their ship and then try to call out zukka shippers for “shipping zukka to get katara out of the way” is like. aggressively hypocritical. it also literally makes no sense seeing as zvtara isn’t canon.

TL;DR: yeah, they’re on some next level clown shit.

[flightfoot]

Apollo’s Redemption Arc

Apollo was never “evil” per se within the books, not really being actively malicious during the course of the story. He did some stuff that COULD have given him the villain slot (What he did to the Cumaen Sibyl, to Harpocrates, and to Coronis most specifically) but those terrible, malicious actions that led to IMMENSE suffering were only introduced via flashback, and not in great detail. Before that, his worse actions were only referenced vaguely, like him talking about sending heroes to die on quests and not caring, and other things were toned down, like the flaying of Marsyas which supposedly didn’t happen the way it’s portrayed in myths, so it’s up in the air how bad that actually was.

The jarring change in Tyrant’s Tomb came from seeing his more actively malicious actions instead of aggressively uncaring actions and attitude of previous books. During The Hidden Oracle, The Dark Prophecy, and The Burning Maze we learned how he used to watch demigod battles on TV as entertainment, not caring about the suffering they went through. Not to mention how he didn’t care much about Commodus beating his cupbearer for spilling a drink beyond some vague pity and think it was distasteful. He’s mostly chastised for being a bystander during these first three books. The great harm he’s caused more actively was only really emphasized in the fourth book, after he’s already turned around enough that he’s not really considered the same person anymore, something that’s accentuated in the text by Reyna and Meg during the confrontation with Harpocrates.

It appears to be an effort to strike a balance; making sure the reader doesn’t forget Apollo’s screwed up and needs to change, but also never wanting him to come across as a true villain. So in early installments when he’s first starting his redemption and is still a bit of an arrogant prick at times, it just portrays him as being MORE of an arrogant prick at first, along with being uncaring. In later installments once he’s changed and any vestiges of his jerkishness have been swept away, Rick’s able to delve into how bad he’s been in the past. We’re already invested enough in Apollo to not only want him to be redeemed, but to already have seen his growth, to have already gone through a lot of it. It takes a lot of the sting out of his horrific actions in the past. 

Redemption arcs need something to use to redeem a character, something that makes them realize they need to change and provide ongoing motivation for such a strenuous task, beyond just stopping doing bad stuff. Because just not doing evil things anymore ain’t a redemption; that guy who killed Katara’s mother in Avatar: The Last Airbender wasn’t redeemed just because he retired. It takes changing as a person. Often doing some specific redemptive action is also required to sort of ‘solidify’ the character change, to demonstrate that the change isn’t just in their words, that it’s a change that will stick, as well as to bring the audience and those who the character hurt or who were wary of them because of their past, onto their side. Even if the character knows they’ve changed, it’s not like anyone else can see into their heart; they can only judge by what they observe.

One thing that’s needed here is relatability; can we put ourselves in that character’s shoes and see and understand how they view the world? If a reader can do that, can understand that thought process, the redemption arc will be far more likely to work; it might even be required for a truly great one. 

A lot of Apollo’s actions that require a redemption arc (sending demigods off on frivolous, dangerous quests as errands, standing by while people are slaughtered, enacting petty punishments on people who really don’t deserve it, for instance) are written in such a way that the reader could reasonably understand his mindset, though it’d vary by reader obviously, as personal experience and mindset play a large role here. It helps that for a lot of Apollo’s actions we’re inside his head, we know what he was thinking, even if we don’t know the full story of how he developed into thinking that way. With him starting off thinking of demigods and mortals as expendable, we get to thoroughly understand that aspect before changing it. Others are more mixed, like with seeing his thought process concerning the Cumaen Sibyl and her curse. He helpfully explains a piece of his thought process, namely about hoping to find the one true romance that would wash away his past failures, and then how he started hating her when denied what he wanted, and couldn’t understand that her love wasn’t transactional, wasn’t to be bought. 

Come to think of it, he may have had that viewpoint because as a god, he had a lot of capital to trade. Power, wealth, longevity, all sorts of extremely valuable things he could use to ‘buy’ what he wanted. So the idea of being able to obtain love, peace, and fulfillment that way was tantalizing - especially since it wasn’t something he could obtain that way from most of the other gods. He was fortunate enough to have his sister and mother at least, so he DID have some good, healthy relationships, but that didn’t provide immunity from that mindset.

Being thrown down to Earth, being among mortals as one of them, changed everything.

Having good role models helped.

Even way back in THO, Apollo’s touched, nearly driven to tears at his children’s desire to protect him, at their love and care for him. He doesn’t expect it since he can’t provide them anything special.

And it’s not like it ends with them.

TDP: Jo and Emmie’s kindness towards others, their acceptance of those in need, their desire to help even people like himself and Lit, touches him deeply.

TBM: Jason sees worth in him, SAW worth in him, even back in Blood of Olympus, first time seeing him. Even then he risked his father’s wrath to try to get him to go easy on Apollo, because he thought it was the right thing to do. And ultimately he was willing to die in part to save Apollo.

TTT: The camp just accepts him in, weary though they are. Frank in particular expresses concern for him, that he wouldn’t want to live in a world without Apollo.

TON: Any sort of kindness towards him drives Apollo nearly (or actually) to tears (granted this isn’t exactly new). The Jackson’s/Blofis’s willingness to shelter him and Meg despite the danger, treating it as a natural sort of thing that they couldn’t possibly NOT do, Will having gotten clothes for him on the off-chance, on the hope he’d be back and wanting him to have his own stuff - the casual kindness and compassion just continues to drive home to him that THIS is how people should be - including himself.

While Apollo was shown the negative effects of his previous terrible actions, shown why he needed to change, it wasn’t just left at that. Throughout the entire series, he saw, he experienced what being better would actually look like. He wasn’t just torn down, but also built up again at the same time, this time with a healthier view of the world.

That’s one of the things that really stood out to me with Apollo’s redemption arc in particular; while he faces the consequences of his previous terrible actions and mindset, even having them thrown back at him at times, experiencing them from the other side (hello Britomartis); he isn’t treated cruelly by the people around him… pretty much ever. People are temporarily mad at him, but not for more than like, an hour, and they usually come around pretty quickly. (Not counting the people he wronged REALLY badly in ancient times, talking more about current demigods). It doesn’t feel like a redemption arc based around punishing Apollo, but one around changing him.

It’s especially fitting since this whole thing was *supposed* to be a punishment from Zeus, but ended up being far more than that.

I think Apollo put it well here, near the end of TON.

To be honest, though, I could no longer consider my time on Earth a punishment. Terrible, tragic, nearly impossible… yes. But calling it a punishment gave Zeus too much credit. It had been a journey - an important one I made for myself, with the help of my friends. I hoped… I believed that the grief and pain had shaped me into a better person. I had forged a more perfect Lester from the dregs of Apollo. I would not trade those experiences for anything. (TON 373)

[innocentimouto]

Katara and Zuko’s scene in BSS

I don’t like it. I want to be clear in that because I don’t want to offend anyone who might find this. If you love this scene and would hate to read someone, um, destroying it, please ignore this. Though this is more my hate to how it was written, but that is inevitably connected to being critical of Zuko because. Well.

Why does Katara even apologize to Zuko? Somehow his emotions become the center focus when if he really changed, he should be making the effort to reach out, not the other way around.

She apologizes for yelling at him.

‘Well it’s hurtful.’

You know what else is hurtful?

Toph getting in Aang’s face and telling him how pathetic he is in “Bitter Work”. Very few people give her any flack for that. In that episode, none of the characters think she needs to apologize. But it’s justified to help Aang?

There were other ways to teach him. She could have still been dismissive and mocking and been much less hurtful than that. I’m still confused on why Aang didn’t tear up there like when Katara snapped at him in Book 1.

And Katara had every right to be angry. Zuko invaded her home, destroyed it, threatened her grandmother, women, and children, her brother, Aang, etc. 

So she apologizes for shouting, but he can’t apologize for threatening her grandmother? For burning down Suki’s village which definitely hurt people, if not killed? For supporting the FN and that he was wrong and he’s sorry? I’m sorry, there is something very biased here.

What Zuko did to Katara and her people was horrible and I genuinely can’t watch that episode without tearing up or going cold.

Just. The writers rushing to make sure she apologizes. Just imagine them clutching their hearts because no, she can’t be mean to Zuko. Her popularity will drop! Her popularity---

Maybe you should have focused more on fleshing out the victims of the war than the literal colonizers----

Then it’s written off as she hates Zuko and that’s wrong. Zuko isn’t innocent in the war. She doesn’t hate him because he’s FN. She didn’t hate Jeong Jeong. She hates Zuko for supporting the Fire Nation throughout all their interactions. It’s not that she hates him because of his race. He personally did harm. The way it’s portrayed as wrong or ignorant never sat well with me.

(They made her bring up Ozai just to increase sympathy for Zuko. She never mentioned the Fire Lord before.)

Anyway, Katara hears him talk about what’s going on in his head, and then offers to use very special healing water on his scar. Immediately she offers him a solution, an actual way to deal with his problems, and a few minutes ago they were enemies.

She also conveniently didn’t mention: You know, that place where you stole Aang from? Where you taunted and looked down on me? Where you nearly killed Aang accidentally? Where you reduced the odds of us stopping the NWT from being conquered by taking the Avatar? Where, because of you, Zhao was able to reach the Spirit Oasis before us and the waterbenders lost their bending which would presumably end with many dead? And because of that, I lost my bending? And because of that, Yue died? And because of that, my brother lost someone he loved? And because of that a father lost his daughter? That place.

When did she ever show hatred for Zuko before this? She says he’s the face of the enemy, but we get no fear or hatred before this. We get hatred after this, which seems entirely because of his “betrayal” and not for his actions against her family and her friends.

Sokka mentions Yue and doesn’t even blame Zuko for it. And they still hadn’t learned Zuko wasn’t working with Zhao. How---

They also act like her saying her mother was killed by the FN is a revelation or something. Excuse you, atla writers. You couldn’t even bother giving her different lines, let alone a flashback until then! And then you have her saying that to Zuko, whom the writers went over and above to show how much he regretted leaving Iroh in Book 3, in so many different ways. And showed his trauma and reasons for doing what he did throughout Book 1 and 2.

So even to me, who loves Katara, I almost want to roll my eyes when she brings it up in BSS. Because it’s so lazy. Bring that up organically. Why didn’t she say 

your people took away all the waterbenders. Do you know how that feels? To lose that many people and to lose bending? To always be afraid it will happen again? Your people were so heartless and obsessed with destruction that you raided us again and again and would kill and destroy anything. 

Your people wanted to do that to me! And my mother sacrificed herself for me!

We never did anything to your people. We were innocent. Mom was innocent! I didn’t understand why. The parents of the benders your people would kill didn’t understand why. The kids who were orphaned didn’t understand why. But we learned. Because we had to. Because your people forced us to.

The Fire Nation are monsters. They never stop. They’ll kill because they can. And they’ll burn because they can. It doesn’t matter if the people they attack are unarmed, or children, or innocent, or not involved in the war.

And you’re just like them. You did the same thing. You were going to kill us when we were innocent. You were going to kill us for doing nothing wrong. You were going to do the exact same thing until Aang sacrificed himself for us. 

You’re no different from them.

[cobraonthecob]

something that will never fail to throw me off a ship is the treatment of a character. I really don’t like it when one character is punished for having feelings for someone, or if they are punished for not returning someone’s feelings.

Anyone who has followed me for awhile knows that I really don’t like ML’s Love Square and Kataan.g. Both of them have chafed me hard enough for me to walk away from shipping them, and it’s because of ML’s and ATLA’s treatments of Marinette and Katara.

Marinette has a crush/infatuation (it’s more like infatuation, the way it’s portrayed) on Adrien, and the narrative loves to humiliate her for it. She can’t properly confess without making herself look like an idiot, it stagnates her growth as a character, and when she tries to move on, other characters get mad at her for trying to do so (I swear these characters aren’t characters, they’re the writers’ mouthpieces telling Marinette that she has to only have eyes for her One True Love, and it’s frustrating). As a result, the show gets dragged along because the episodes are plot driven and revolves around the Love Square, rather than the characters. 

On the flip side, we have Katara who, throughout the show until the last five minutes of the finale, had no interest in Aang whatsoever (the way she treats Aang is the same way she treats a baby and the way she treats a love interest is not how she treats Aang), but she’s punished for this. How? By being slut-shamed (Meng, a 12 year old, calls Katara a floozy for crimes of...being Aang’s crush? Katara and Aang aren’t even dating and Meng doesn’t even know Katara!) or kissed without her consent twice before the narrative decides not to address either of those before making her decide that she loves Aang and then goes and kisses him with nothing to suggest she has a character anymore.

Anyways, with ML still running, I can hope that there’s actual character development coming up in S4 (I don’t, but I’ve put the bar in the Earth’s core. I can’t go any lower with my expectations), while ATLA ended 15 years ago and LoK and the comics confirming Katara’s fate, I can say I hate Kataa.ng even more, while with the Love Square I can still hold out hope that the writing team finally realizes what they’re doing wrong and then stop punishing Marinette.