#zuko critical

[avatar-legends-confessionblog]

Honestly? The southern raiders sucked for everyone. If you watch it without the intent to prove anyones innocence or devilry, everyone sucks in it. Toph is the only one who doesn't, in some way, suck and thats bc she didn't talk. Now, do I think that makes them all bad characters/people? No. But nobody was at their best in this episode.

Zuko absolutely was acting entitled to Katara's forgiveness and looked the guy who saved his life multiple times in the eye and mocked the very same conviction that allowed him even a chance.

Aang absolutely came at Katara way too fucking hard and jumped to assumptions and judgements he had no right to make and pressed his own values on everyone else.

Katara absolutely was an ass to everyone and actively spat in the face of both Aang's and Sokka's pain in possibly some of the cruelest ways possible.

Even Sokka tried to invalidate the pain Katara felt simply because he managed to handle that pain better.

Everyone sucked. TSR was an exercise in flaws and disconnect between characters. Nobody really understood anybody here. Zuko did not understand that Katara was being driven to do something that went against who she was fundamentally as a person. Aang did not understand that Katara felt pain in a drastically different way than he did. Zuko did not understand how hard Aang's choice of forgiveness in the face of pain was. Katara did not understand that Aang was coming from a place of concern for her, not moral preaching, because yes, in fact, he did know what pain and rage felt like. Aang did not understand that Zuko was working as a mouthpiece for Katara and not as the person making the decisions.

Nobody understood eachother here! Nobody was innocent! Nobody was right! This wasn't about being right this was about exploring the depth and effect of Katara's pain and who she is at her core!

But no, because everything in this fandom revolves around ships.

X

[btvs3x21]

to me, zuko’s relationship with toph is so antagonistic on his behalf because she’s the one member of the gaang (outside of suki who he simply doesn’t consider to be in the gaang tbh) who he least empathizes with, at large and in relation to her trauma. the reason for this is that unlike aang’s, katara’s, and sokka’s traumas which he sympathizes with + connects his trauma to in various ways of arguable aptness, zuko is uncomfortable with the striking closeness of toph’s trauma to his because of how class and privilege factor into their both of their trauma. aang, katara, and sokka are not privileged in any real way, esp not one that reminds him at all of his situation re status and privilege.

zuko finds aang, katara, and sokka's trauma relatable on a level that makes him feel equally victim of the fire nation; that's why he draws lines between kya being murdered in an ongoing genocide to protect katara and ursa, who was certainly not anti imperialism from anything we've seen of her, disappearing to protect him from his abusive father and grandfather. both situations are unpleasant and involve maternal sacrifice, but one is a domestic ordeal while the other is an act of racial violence and genocide. the connection exists, but the context is radically different. still, zuko likes that he can draw those parallels between his trauma and katara's. it allows him more room to feel like a better victim and arguably a bigger one in the context of the war, despite the fact that his status means he did in many ways benefit from his family and country being the perpetrators of it and his own personal role in it throughout books 1, 2, and 3.

i will give the obligatory disclaimer that zuko is a child soldier and he does side with the oppressed in the end, but he himself is not oppressed by the fire nation's genocidal war as a fire nation prince, let alone when he is the fire nation crown prince. he is someone who directly benefited from this war. yes, his father was abusive, yes, he was exiled for 2 and a half years, but he was still afforded many privileges because of the war. that does not negate his domestic suffering or his political exile, but those privileges still came about because of the suffering of others, including the gaang.

this is a nuanced situation. it is extremely complex and hard to accept the simultaneous truths at play here, even for adults, let alone for an extremely traumatized, black and white thinking 16 year old boy. zuko needs to be a victim in the context of the war as well as his family to alleviate his guilt about his participation in it prior to joining the gaang. he needs to relate his trauma to theirs. i will say that he doesn't ever seem to attempt this with suki nor does she offer her trauma to him, but that's more about both the writers and zuko not caring much if at all for her as a person.

but toph receives clear rejection from zuko when she tries to relate to him. her attempts to endear herself to him and to open up to him are shot down. why? surely toph suffered because of the war too. she's from the earth kingdom. but she never suffered a personal loss that zuko respected or related to. toph is not given any dead relatives. she was abused but not in a way zuko would understand, and her abuse did not negate that she lived a relatively comfortable life for being in the earth kingdom during the war. she was rich, she was cared for, she was shielded by privilege in many ways. while zuko is of course far richer than toph, he doesn't want to confront that reality. he doesn't want her privilege to make his obvious. he needs to focus on his suffering, his abusive father, his struggling to fit in as heir, and his time in exile and poverty. he can't accept the idea of those struggles coexisting with his privilege, so he can't accept the idea of toph's either. she has to just be whining about nothing. she has to be a nuisance not to be taken seriously. otherwise, he has to turn and face things about himself he doesn't want to be true.

could he grow to care about her and face his own privilege in the future? sure. but he doesn't in canon.

[zuko-always-lies]

It really occurs to me that Zuko's treatment of Song and her mother is uniquely bad

So Zuko and Iroh are in hiding, and Iroh poisons himself out of his own stupidity. Iroh is in real trouble and quite likely dying, so the two of them head to a clinic in an Earth Kingdom town for help. There, Song saves Iroh's life and heals him, for free. She then invites Iroh and Zuko home for dinner because she can tell they're in a bad place. And after that, she very directly offers Zuko empathy. Zuko's reaction to all of this: let's steal an ostrich-horse from her!

I repeat, Song saves the life of Zuko's beloved uncle/surrogate figure for free, she feeds Zuko and Iroh for no other other reason than her own kindness, she offers him sympathy, kindness, and emotional support, and Zuko's responds by going "I should steal something really valuable and expensive from her!" And, as far as we knows, he never even thinks about her ever again.

I think we need to understand that Zuko's behavior here is probably uniquely bad, even by the standards of ATLA antagonists. ATLA includes many absolutely awful villains, including some people who are far, far worse than Zuko, but I don't think there is another character in ATLA, no matter how evil, who responds to "x has saved the life of beloved family member" with "let's steal from x out of convenience."

If placed in identical or near identical circumstances, I don't think there's a single other person in the entire series who ends up stealing Song's ostrich horse at the end. Zhao doesn't do it. Azula doesn't do it. Long Feng doesn't do it. The Warden doesn't do it. Sozin doesn't do it. Ukano doesn't do it. I don't even think Ozai, as awful as he is, does it. Probably most of these characters, despite how terrible they are as people, do the opposite: they make some sort of vague promise to reward Song for her kindness (once they've achieved world conquest, of course) before they go on their way.

In general, Zuko is very, very far from being the most awful person in ATLA, but along this one particular axis, at least, he might be worse than any other character we ever encounter.

[formercreepypastakid]

having some thoughts about Katara lately, specifically about the "Katara keeps the burn scars aang gave her" headcanon and why it is compelling to me

- It forces her to grapple with the truth that Aang, someone she loves, has hurt her, and that that is fine. It's okay to forgive even while not forgetting

- It deepens her conflicting relationship with fire and fire bending, something she both needs and sees the good in, yet has been hurt by

- It can even deepen her relationship with Aang, showing his growth in seeing the hurt he has caused her and also acknowledging all he has given up for her (namely the Avatar state)

- It's more than just "sharing scars with zuko" but forcing zuko to further face how his element, when treated with disrespect, can cause hurt, especially to those he loves

- Lasting consequences for Aang's mistakes: Every time he looks at her hands, he is reminded of how much power he has as the Avatar, and how he can't afford to play around with it

- Further developing Katara's healing powers, showcasing how they start out weak, barely able to relieve her pain and evolves to the point where she can bring back Aang basically from the dead

[blackbullet99]

Aang, he’s just better than Zuko.

For Katara anyway.

Frankly even in Book 3, the season where Zuko was at his best, Aang was still kinder and more altruistic than Zuko. 

In Sozin’s Comet (Part 1) both Aang and Zuko are driven to a rage breaking point due to the stress of the comet approaching and the others not taking the situation seriously enough, the others want to have fun at the beach while Zuko is concerned about Ozai’s genocidal plan, whereas Aang is concerned about having to kill Ozai, something the others don’t fully understand. Zuko gets violent and destructive, burning everything and attacking Aang to “teach him a lesson”, while Aang is genuinely angry which is verbally directed at the others (even Katara who trying to help), and so he leaves the situation to think out his dilemma. Guess who gets more flack from that side of the “fandom”.

You cannot convince me that Aang hating Zutara weirdos genuinely think Zuko is a kinder person than Aang simply because he learned familial abuse, violence, imperialism and colonialism were wrong and sought to improve himself. Or that he’s more mature than Aang for those same reason and because he’s less joyful. Zuko’s always been rather temperamental, even post-redemption arc.

They like Zutara for superficial reasons, nothing more. All of their media-illiterate “reasons” is amounts to nothing but misunderstanding The Southern Raiders.

These people will say Zuko is the only who supported and understood Katara. Lemme set the record straight, Zuko does a total of three significant “supportive” things for Katara, that’s it. 

He has one moment of empathy when she mentions her mother dying in the cave, which is nice. She considers healing his wound and he ends betraying her. The way the Zutara shippers go on, you’d think they kissed in the cave like Oma and Shu.

Oh, wait.

Not only that but Zuko himself never reflects back on that moment with any remorse, he never apologizes to Katara, if anything HE gets annoyed when Katara is rightfully pissed off at him much later. Zuko is “the only one who understands Katara” right.

Anti-Aang Zutara morons LOVE to bring up Zuko taking Katara to confront Yon-Rha as if it’s the nicest thing anyone’s ever done for Katara as if it’s the only time Katara was ever cared for. 

HOLY GLAZE BATMAN!

The MAIN reason Zuko did was specifically because he wanted Katara to stop hating him. He isn’t concerned about this will affect Katara about what choices she’s gonna make when she confronts this guy, or even if Sokka wants to tag along (he was kinda sidelined despite Kya being HIS MOM too). 

Both Aang and Sokka are concerned for Katara not because “they idealize her.” They’ve known Katara the longest, They saw her break down when bloodbending, they don’t want her to do something that will mentally break her later on.

The only time Zuko shows genuine support and kindness in the episode is when he checks on Katara when she’s in control of Appa and when he hears exactly what happened to her mom, he shows genuine sympathy and understanding. 

Cool. But this ONE moment in no way means he’s the only person who supports Katara.

He also saves her from Azula’s lightning. Great, really shows how far Zuko’s come as a person. But saving Katara’s life isn’t something exclusive to Zuko. Aang saved Katara too many times, just as she did for him.

Objectively speaking, Aang DOES support Katara, more times than Zuko. 

If taking Katara somewhere is so very important (in regard to her tribe’s colonization no less), in the first darn episode Aang willingly agrees to take her to the North Pole to learn Waterbending. He’s nothing but supportive to Katara in regards to her Waterbending, supporting her in moments of insecurity, refusing to learn from someone who’s openly discriminatory to Katara and cheers her on when fighting the discriminator.

He goes out of his way for Katara several times throughout the series, going through hell and high water to get frozen frogs to cure Katara’s illness, securing her lost necklace which he knows is important to her culture, surrenders himself to Zuko so that he’ll leave Katara’s tribe, helps her commit eco-terrorism when she masquerades as the Painted Lady, inviting her to dance when she feels left out, leaving the Guru specifically to save HER, etc.

If it wasn’t clear already Aang cares about Katara emotionally, he calls her Sifu when she points out he’s never done so before, when he walls himself off from his emotions, much to Katara’s dismay, he later tells Katara that she was right about not losing sight of hope and his feelings (especially for Appa and for her) which she greatly moves her, when Jet died and Katara was forced to bloodbend Aang comforted her, simply by placing his hand on her shoulder, letting her know he was there, which she appreciated.

It’s thanks to Aang that Zuko even joined their team at all and even then, he specifically asks Katara if it’s okay (seeing as she feels so strongly about it) and she only agrees to go through with it because of Aang, which he appreciates. 

People use The Southern Raiders as an example of Aang not understanding Katara, when if anything, it’s the opposite.

Aang himself knows what it’s life to feel “rage and pain” and appeals to Katara by brining up times he not only felt grief loosing his entire nation, his father figure, and Appa, the only living thing from his time and culture, all of which Katara comforting Aang over this by relating her own grief to his. Both have lost people they care about to the Fire Nation, both are kind people who once let themselves be driven by rage and pain, both are the last benders of their tribe. Even with Aang being concerned for Katara, he doesn’t invalidate her anger, he encourages her to confront her oppressor and even though she doesn’t forgive him, he accepts this. 

In addition to everything else, Aang and Katara simply just bring out the best in each other, they’re friends first, they have fun together (penguin sledding started it all), they both have each other backs, they work extremely well together in combat as a battle couple, they both care deeply about the other and while the both admire each other strongly, they have an equal partnership and love each other flaws and all. 

With all that said, can you really say Zuko was the only one who supported and understood Katara, because (aside from The Southern Raiders) he didn’t do anything super significant and factually speaking Aang clearly understood and supported Katara more than Zuko ever did.

Heck, even Sokka who was initially rather rude and dismissive of Katara in the first episode did more for Katara than Zuko as the show went on. Supporting her desire to save Aang in Episode 2, supporting her saving Haru, throwing hands with Aang when the later burned her, comforting her when she was sad about Aang’s capture at the North Pole, acknowledging how much Katara did for him when their mom died, purely so Toph would leave her alone, he was was good brother.

The Zutara brigade will cling to three moments where Zuko did anything for Katara because of the #aesthetic of their mid ship. Meanwhile they act like Aang not only did anything for Katara, but treated her like garbage, by naming three moments, all of which he either apologized for or realized he was wrong. 

They only like the idea of Zutara in their Wattpad fanfics, as opposed to what Zuko and Katara’s relationship actually is and no matter how many times they deny it, it’s primarily based on aesthetic and superficial reasons.

If Aang was 16 like Zuko, they’d lap up all those Kataang moments like crazy, even Aang kissing Katara in EIP (which was bad) given how much they love Zuko kidnapping Katara (I’ll save you from the pirates).

If Zuko was 12 like Aang, Zutara wouldn’t even be a thing, especially by how immature and quick to anger Zuko is for a good chunk of the show. They’d see Katara try to heal Zuko and think “it’s a mom caring for her child”, they’d see Zuko get mad at Katara for not trusting him and see Zuko throw a fiery, violent tantrum at Aang in Sozin’s Comet and say “he’s way too immature to be with Katara”. 

The hypocrisy snd double standards of these morons are insane. 

Shipping obsessed fake A:TLA fans is what they are. Nothing more.

[mesapies]

I kinda hate that all the anti maiko post are directed towards mai and never acknowledge zukos flaws in the relationship or if they do they try to excuse them when villianizing mai to the max.

More ppl should talk about how weirdly possessive zuko is of mai not just in the comics(which are overall ooc for both mai and zuko) where zuko continously flirts with her and tries to push his feelings on her while she has a new boyfriend. In the show as well like during the beach episode where he pushes a guy across the room for talking to her and tries to accuse mai of liking a guy because he looked at her, she didn't even look at him.

Everyone talks about how mai pushed zukos gift of the seashell aside but never talks about how earlier mai mentions how she doesn't like seashells in front of zuko when the where in li and lo's palace. Showing how zuko didn't listen to her.

And there's more examples but idrc to go all into it.

Anyways I'm not saying that mai doesn't have her own faults but their relationship isn't one sided toxic as many try to make it seem.

[blastaway2004]

No Zutara stans, Aang didn’t assault Katara

Sexually violating someone is a very serious offense and Aang didn’t violate Katara. You losers are so desperate to paint Aang in the worst light possible. He lightly touches her lips and she instantly backs away, yet you people treat him like he’s a r@pist just to justify some lame-ass non-canon ship. 

Aang kissing without her consent was bad, duh. Do I wish we saw him apologize to her, yes. However, Aang never “hurt” Katara. She was kinda pissed off at worst.

You people ignore that the first kiss between them was mutual, and Katara clearly returned it. 

Katara was annoyed when Aang kissed her in EIP, but she wasn’t furious or traumatized or anything, she was just rightfully annoyed and made the right decision to leave Aang to himself. 

Following this moment, Aang recognized that what he did was wrong, he never tries anything like that again, him and Katara are perfectly cordial with each other later on and he clearly learned from his mistake.

Say what you will about the comics overall, but I think this speaks for itself.

Additionally, how does Aang treat Katara badly when they’re married, I understand Aang didn’t spend as much time with his kids (barring Tenzin) and Katara was rather sideline in LOK, but there’s NO evidence to suggest Aang treated Katara like crap.

“Why couldn't (Katara hate Aang)? If a friend of mine were to kiss me without my consent, am I not allowed to hate him for what he did because he's nice? If a writer were to write Katara to hate Aang it would be logical. It would be her full right to.” 🙄

Okay, so ignoring that OP is blatantly trying to self-insert themselves into Katara and has no righting experience beyond maybe a crappy Wattpad fanfic or two. I can’t take this stupid argument seriously because OP is a Zutara stan.

By OP’s same dumbass logic, Katara should still hate Zuko and should’ve never forgiven him, seeing as he did objectively worse stuff to Katara than a poorly timed kiss.

If Zuko, raided Katara’s home, abducted her, used her belongings as leverage, assaulted her, betrayed her trust after Katara was going to heal him, and teamed up with Azula leading to the later killing Katara’s friend, is she not allowed to hate him because he does one nice things for her later on? If the writer’s were to write Katara to hate Zuko it would be logical. It would be her full right to.

But OP isn’t ready for this conversation.

DISCLAIMER

I DO think Katara choosing to forgive Zuko much later on is fine and makes sense relatively, after he attempts to support her and truly comes to understand her situation in TSR  I’m just pointing out that OP’s logic is stupid and hypocritical. 

[the-genius-az]

Who do you think is the best firebender in Atla?

Many people believe Iroh is the most powerful firebender simply because of his fandom. And honestly, I highly doubt he is because he doesn't have many feats, and his only "great feat" is protecting Ba Sing Se. But guess what? A comet increased his power, so I don't think it's due to his own merit.

So no, Iroh is not the most powerful firebender in Atla.

Ozai? In the series, he's canonically the most powerful firebender in Atla, but his only "feats" are defeating his own son, who was on the ground begging for forgiveness, and beating up another child. But oh... it turns out he also had the comet boosting his power, so it's not entirely his own doing.

Maybe the creators said he's the best firebender, but I doubt it. It's probably in the top four if we consider Sozin and Azulon.

(And we have to remember that Aang took away his firebending.)

Maybe Zuko??? Nah, maybe he's the best of the worst/average, but he's the worst of the best/prodigies.

I mean, Zuko's only major feat was "defeating" his prodigious sister, but I doubt that counts because she was at her worst, and his fire was amplified by the comet.

So no, he's not Atla's best firebender either.

Azula? Yes, I think she's definitely the greatest firebender in Atla, and of all time.

Am I speaking out of fanaticism? I don't know. I'd like to know of a firebender much better than her. Is there one? No, there isn't.

She's probably the only member of the royal family who has achieved so many feats on her own merits and without needing a comet to boost her power.

Who can we compare her to? Iroh, Ozai, and Zuko? They're barely reaching their heels right now.

Sozin and Azulon? Phew, I hope they can fight for the title of greatest firebender in their graves.

Jeong Jeong, Rangi, or Mako? They were defeated very easily by others, so I doubt it.

So... Answering your question, it's definitely Azula.

[ilikepjo24]

Lol another dumb take on reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRant/s/ER8SmBToSm

WOW! There are so many things to unpack here...

"Iroh, the most-" Iroh!? IROH!? THE Iroh!? The "redeemed" warlord that only gave a fuck about being a warlord after it affected him personally? That Iroh? The Iroh that left a child to bare the weight of a nation just bc he, the mature responsible adult, wanted to sit on his ass instead of being mature and responsible? THAT Iroh? It seems awful like both those actions appear to be those of a selfish and unempathetic person. And let's not forget that even after his "redemption" he assaulted June. So how exactly is he the most understanding and kind person in the show, exactly?

Would you like to know who actually is the most understanding and kind person in the show? AANG.

The boy who found it in himself to forgive and learn to have affection for the dude that chased him around the world and almost hurt/killed him and his friends multiple times. The boy who found it in himself to forgive the nation that genocided his people enough to want to help them, teach them their old ways and bring them back to the light. The boy that found it in himself to spare Ozai, a sadistic, manipulative, abusive warlord that wanted to watch the world burn in an attempt to satisfy his narcissism. And may the record note that Iroh did not extended his own brother the same mercy. He believed Ozai needed to die, when Aang didn't. So Aang is more empathetic, understanding and kind that Iroh.

And do you know what Aang has to say about Azula?

That he believes in her ability to do good and be good. That he trusts her to do so. He could have had her executed. He didn't. He could have taken away her bending. He didn't. He could have said she's born evil and a bad egg. He didn't. He put in a good word for her. He said she did something good. That can be good. THAT'S what the actual most understanding and kind person in the whole franchise has to say about Azula.

"She smiles when-" So did everyone else and so does everyone ever alive when justice is served. Because for the audience, the event was unfair and traumatizing. But for the people of the Fire Nation it was justice. And it's only normal for people to be happy when justice is served. When a groomer goes to jail you don't think "oh, that poor groomer", you think "good, this piece of shit definitely deserved it". Similarly, in the Fire Nation, an imperialistic dictatorship, when someone disrespects their Firelord, which they worship as almost a god (if not more, bc we see them worship their Firelord more often than Agni), and that person gets punished they don't think "oh, that like boy", they think "good, this piece of shit definitely deserved it". That's not called "being a bad egg", that's called propaganda and borderline mass brainwashing.

"She mocks-" She's repeating what she heard from adults in her life. That's not being a bad egg, that's bad parenting.

"She tortures-" Not cannon in any way. We've heard that she threw bread at them. Not only was that told from Zuko's pov, who's known to be a biased narrator when it comes to Azula, but it's also not even that freaking bad. It's bread, when it hits the water it becomes soft. No one ever died because they got hit by a loaf of bread. And she doesn't burn them with.

"Her mother's comments-" Oh, you mean the "what is wrong with that child"? That comment? That comment that was thrown at a child after doing a very normal childlike thing? I used to to play execution with my Barbie dolls and beheading them by pulling off their heads and my least favourites would always be the ones that got executed. Kids break toys they don't value and/or like. Azula is not obligated to like or value a gift that wasn't for her. The doll was a gift for every little girl. It wasn't personal. It wasn't hers. She doesn't have to like or value it. She doesn't have to not break it. The only reason that she chose fire instead of execution is because she had fire handy. That comment Ursa made was absolutely not justified.

"She's never given an excuse-" Not only is this take proof that media literacy is dead, it's flat out anti-intellectualism. We see that Fire Nation schools brainwash kids by shoving propaganda in their faces and we know Azula went in a Fire Nation school. All that's left to do is put 2 and 2 together. It's 4. It's fucking 4. Azula was brainwashed in the Fire Nation school that she went to that brainwashes Fire Nation kids. Canon fact. Use your brain.

"Her vision of what she wants is twisted-" What, exactly, is twisted about wanting to be acknowledged by your family that is proud of you, being loved by your family that is supposed to love you anyway, and completing the mission you've been brainwashed into thinking is the right thing all your life? What is twisted about reaching expectations and having a happy family? I'll wait.

"We're supposed to sympathize with the spi- No, we're not. The spirit is very obviously a liar and a manipulator as we've seen throughout the whole damn comic. And it wants to eat her. The spirit is the villain of the story that has been continuously twisting reality to weaken Azula's ambition and will to fight back, so that it could kill her. By the end of the comic we're supposed to know that the spirit is a full of shit and we shouldn't trust what it says, since all it has said throughout the whole comic is lies. Not sympathize with it.

"Rationalizations of her behavior are believe yet unprovable and based on subtext." It's almost like she's not the main character. The show isn't going to take time diving into her background. They are going to only give us subtext and we have to use our critical thinking skills and come to a believable conclusion, as we do. Zuko loving Ursa isn't outright stated at the show at any point, but we know it's a fact because we see it in the way they interact. We know his mother matters to him because he thinks of her and misses her. That's subtext. And we know Azula is not to blame for the person she was bought up to be because Fire Nation schools canonically brainwash their students. That's subtext. You can't selectively decide that this subtext is enough to prove this point, but that subtext doesn't prove that point because it's not outright stated. That's called double standards.

"The show portrays her as being inherently evi-" The show? You mean the same show that didn't even portray the genocider, treacherous dictator (Sozin) and the abusive, manipulative dictator (Ozai) as inherently evil went out of its way to portray the manipulated, abused, brainwashed child as a bad egg? ...Sure. That's what happened.

"Mai and Ty Lee do the same stuff but are portrayed differ-" No, they are not. Mai is portrayed as somebody who abused the power they have over others, since she views ordering servants around as a fun activity, and as somebody who has no empathy towards their family, as she didn't hesitate to agree that her brother has less worth than a king. Ty Lee is portrayed as sadistic, since she's animated to smirk and sneer while taking down soldiers defending their homes. I think she even goes as far as to mock them at sons point, but take that with a pinch of salt. They are portrayed to be classist, sadistic, unempathetic people that only give a fuck about the select few and mystery everybody else. Y'all just refuse to see it because Ty Lee is cute and is constantly infantilized because of it and because Mai protected your lord and savior, Zuko, right after she was done being classist and unempathetic. They are not portrayed as better, you just go out of your way to portray Azula as worst.

"Even in LoK-" Azula is given Freudian Excuse. You just refuse to see it because, as opposed to Legend of Korra, the creators do not chew your food up and spit it in your mouth for you to swallow. You have to put the pieces of the puzzle together and make realization. Which can understandably be hard for people that have a brain the size of a peanut, like yourself.

"It feels weird for a show like Avatar to imply somebody was evil from birt-" It feels weird because it is weird and it is weird because it's something they would never do which is why they didn't do it. You literally just created this narrative inside of your head while understanding that it goes completely against the philosophy of the show. And now it's weird to you that it doesn't align with the show? Make it make sense.

This isn't asking for an Azula redemption arc (although "this fourteen-year-old who was acting under orders of a tyrannical fire lord can't be redeemed" seems incredibly harsh), this is just me wondering why the writers consistently, across mediums, refuse to suggest that she's even the slightest bit a product of her environment? But Zuko gets a pass for pretty much everything more or less? Alright then lol.

This is close to being the smartest thing you have said during this post. Unfortunately it is easy to notice that some of the creators just don't like Azula. That's it. That's the reason why. They don't like her and they don't want her to have a happy ending. So it's good that somebody else is riding this show now. Faith Erin Hicks, as we see from her comic, is not afraid to treat Azula as the victim she is, and is not afraid to lay the blame on the adults that failed her. As opposed to previous creators, she seems to be willing to apply the general philosophy of the show in Azula's character as well. Which is something she's able to do because Azula is not, in fact, inherently evil. She's a victim of abuse and a manipulated child that has done some very fucked up things but has all her life ahead of her to grow up and be better.

Give us a scene of Ozai molding her into the cruel person she is

Supporting and praising bad behavior is enabling it. A good parent would say "I understand that you were upset at feeling as though you were underestimated when you got efficient results, but it's important to keep your cool and respect your instructors since they have more experience than you. If you feel as though the inability of this instructor to stray from traditional paterns is holding you back, communicate that problem with me, and I'll find you a new teacher if it's necessary." Does Ozai do that? No. What does he do? Praise her. What will Azula do in response? Repeat the same behavior to receive praise again. What is that called? Nursing cruel/bad behavior.

Give us a scene of Azula being at least a normal child at some point.

Stealing sweets at a sleepover and recreating scenes from a movie/play with your sibling? I recall doing both those things as a child. We're talking about universal normal child experiences.

Don't vindicate her mother being cruel.

The narrative itself is not excusing Ursa. Azula herself goes to lengths to hold her accountable, actually. The only ones excusing Ursa's actions are Zuko, who's looking at her through rose colored glasses, because she's one of the first people to show him love, and he wants to sing the best of her, and the fandom, for the same exact reason.

Have Iroh say something slightly more insightful than "she's a crazy bitch leave her alone"

Personally, I don't value Iroh's opinion at all. I think he has to work through the issues that he obviously has with himself, instead of projecting those issues onto Azula, which is what he's doing. But since you care about his opinion so much, here's him saying Azula has the capability to find peace.

Here's an easy one: instead of smiling when Zuko got burnt, Azula looks visually horrified. That tiny, tiny change would've made her far more nuanced! It wouldn't be much, but not only would it make the fire lord's actions seem even worse, it shows us that deep down, she does--or at least, did--care! This is more in line with the show's themes and far more interesting than "she's just gonna be super evil hehe".

Here's the thing. Azula doesn't smile because she's just so "evil hehe". She's smiling because Zuko is receiving a just punishment for his actions. At least as far as she's concerned.

Think about it, in the Fire Nation they treat their King as a god. They pray/say an anthem/swear loyalty to the Firelord and the crown every single day. It should be needless to point out that nobody would question the actions of the Firelord. They would just assume that this is the correct course of action because this is what the Firelord is doing.

Azula not only is a subject of that Firelord but she is the daughter of her father. She was 11 when the Agni Kai. At that age, kids do not question their parents. The think things are right because the parents do it. If Dad is upset with Zuko, then Zuko must have done something wrong, because Dad can't be wrong, he's Dad, he's never wrong.

So both as his daughter and as his subject, Azula has been conditioned from the day she was born to think that he's always right. So when he decides to punish Zuko, that's just another instance where he's right. So why would Azula be upset with him for being right? Especially considering that if she were upset with him, it's possible that you would also receive a punishment for disagreeing with his methods.

So imagine you are Azula. You see your dad, who is always right, and is also your king, who is also always right do something. Anything. Do you think to yourself "Why would he do that? That's bad!" or do you think "He's right for doing what he does because he's always right."? She's under the impression that he's a just ruler and father, so why wouldn't she be satisfied at the sight of him rendering justice to the foolish subject that disobeyed? Especially when having a different opinion can result to being in danger?

Do we get anything from the answer to her personality being "bad egg"?

No, we don't. Which is why this isn't what they did. You just have a false idea of pretty much everything regarding Azula's character and how it was handled.

Thus proven.

[gobs-archive]

Okay, but why the fuck is there practically no Katara merch?

I remember for one of my birthdays (my 21st I think) this comic warehouse I went to only had one piece of Katara merch that is a pin that I can't use on my backpack anymore.

Today while I was looking at funko pops on a delivery website (not amazon) to reward myself for every 5 kilos I lose (I'm starting up my dietary change plan after a few years of ignoring if) I found for Aang, Zuko, Sokka in his warpaint, crazed Azula and even fucking Momo in the garments he wears in the one episode where Aang keeps losing sleep because he has nightmares.

Not one. Single. Funko Pop. Of. Katara

So I just typed in Katara to see what merch they have? Just one A1 poster

Katara is a bad bitch and more people should acknowledge that instead of hating her for things she would be adored by the fandom for if she were a white-passing man.

Zuko gets a pass for being antagonistic towards Azula because of her being 'crazy', but Katara snaps once at Sokka and y'all just lose your shit.

Zuko won't stop talking about regaining his honour and his father's approval, but when Katara talks about her mother, whose potentially burned to a crisp body she saw with her very eyes, y'all call her annoying.

I need by Katara defenders to back me up here.

[waves-after-dark]

i have been saying this for years

the ending of atla and the comics is like reading a princess fairy tale

there is no way the elite of the fire nation would take any of that rolling over

they would immediately remove zuko from the throne and plant a new leader in from one of the noble clans or a high ranking General (maybe Admiral considering they are an island nation) as Fire Lord

the only sliver reality in the post atla content is the assassination attempts against zuko and zuko not following through on the harmony restoration movement

its a fairy tale au kids show and the writers wanted the happy ending because war ending is a good thing but the reality of what would happen would be zuko would either have to return to authoritarian rule like his predecessors and go about slightly differently or he'd be run out of the nation or killed

and if aang went around trying to un-bend every leader it would cause so much fear around the concept of the avatar that when he is reincarnated into korra... well, that's in part why people were trying to find her (red lotus)

the avatar is symbolic of god or a supreme force that doles out punishment as it sees fit only in this world he is man and a physical force and not some unseen force

Bryke trying to convince us that the majority of the fire nation citizens just rolled over and accepted a traitor on the throne because some demigod monk sprayed their old leader with bend-begone spray with said traitor and a waterbender beat a mentally slipping teenage girl. Why the fuck would the average noble/general take anything Zuko says seriously especially when it becomes clear Zuko wants to you know...stop the colonization and imperial expansion that the fire nation 'worked' over for over a century? Even with Ozai and Azula out of commission, Zuko would be very disliked because of this. Bare in mind we saw in the Headband when Aang was dragged into school that these people have been feeding off imperialist propaganda since they were kids. Zuko has barely any allies too so he'd be in a bad position.

X

[waywardbananawolf]

I know I'm overanalyzing things but the Kyoshi Warriors being in the Fire Nation as the fire lord's guard is one of the dumbest political suicides I've ever read. Really?

A paramilitary group from the earth kingdom and cultist of the Avatar Kyoshi can be seen as an attack on the sovereignty and ideology of the Fire Nation and a direct message from the Fire Lord to his nation in which he implies that the leader does not trust their people. and it hilariously makes the narrative have Zuko come to power thanks to a coup d'état sponsored by Foreigners, leaving him in a position of puppet of the avatar (which he is) and no real local support.

This is literally a powder keg for the armed uprising against Zuko and surely the resumption of political power by Azula.

[zuko-always-lies]

Dark Idea (warning)

I'll be honest, I kind of want more stories where Zuko condemns Azula to death/orders her execution/signs her death warrant. Not necessarily stories where she ends up dying in the end but stories where he orders her execution.

As for why he might do that:

She's a massive threat to him and his postwar regime as long as she lives, as she has an extremely strong claim on the throne, while his is kind of tenuous, to say the least. Some of his advisors might urge him to have her killed, for that reason. I could see Iroh "reluctantly" calling for Azula's death, for this reason. Ozai would probably say the same to Zuko, if Zuko asked for advice. And killing her could help symbolically shore up Zuko's authority. All of this is fairly normal for historical royal families.

There's also a personal angle to this. I don't think Zuko's first instinct is to execute her, but he does like the idea of having power and control over her and to some extent having her killed is the ultimate expression of power over her. And if, say, Zuko has agreed to "international trials of war criminals" and thinks that the international tribunal will end condemning her to death, he might prefer to do it himself instead. I'm sure he could come up with some justifications about why this is "better for everyone," but ultimately it'd be about control.

Thoughts?

[sukibenders]

Aang is better than me when it comes to Zuko in that one scene because Zuko, who while he may be my friend, he is also, not only, from the Fire Nation (a place that directly played/plays a role in disrespecting Aang's culture) but also a prince, the son of the man trying to kill him [Aang] and the grandson of the man who is responsible for killing and wiping out my culture. While some of those things aren't Zuko's fault, he does still project their system and doesn't shy away from mocking Aang's culture and pacifism to his face, something that he should be one of the LAST people to do. If I were Aang, Zuko and I would have had to take a walk outside, because ain't no way you're getting away with that.

[millyblank]

Female characters' worth are not defined by how they treat zuko!

I'm tired of this Fandom decrying a character as evil or awful just because they don't fawn over zuko or validate every one of his complaints.

[fishyupmywishy]

Zuko being Fire Lord has to be the funniest thing on earth because absolutely no one knows who he is in the Fire Nation.

Think about it: A 13 year old boy has been banished and had been gone for three years. As far as the Fire Nation is concerned, he no longer exists there.

When Zuko became Fire Lord (ignoring the comics because they’re just wrong) I’d like to imagine that there was a lot of pushback and there was definitely some sort of uprising that might have happened, or at least thought about among the people. The Fire Nation had just been freed from a terrible and cruel monarch, they don’t want or need another. So when this sixteen year old boy comes out of nowhere, despite being the prince, no one knows anything about him. He hadn’t done much of anything to prove that he would have been a good Fire Lord in any sense.

All he had was the Avatar to back him up but even then, Aang is just a 12 year old boy. A 12 year old boy that had been trapped for a hundred years. So he doesn’t know anything about politics or ruling a country, especially in that era.

Zuko becoming Fire Lord was also straight up terrible for the Nation because he most likely didn’t keep up with Fire Nation politics either due to being so focused on capturing Aang.

Realistically, the Fire Nation would have been in shambles because there’s no way a 16 year old with no knowledge of politics or on how to lead would have ever managed to keep an entire country together.