#toa analysis

[yikesy]

you see the reason apollo is so natural at changing himself and quickly adjusting to new situations is that, as the God Embodiment of Civilization, he has this amazing thing named Scientific Curiosity which makes him the chosen one (1) god to not be afraid of change or the unknown

[aeithalian]

Apollo and the demonization of power

I graduated and I'm back on my shit, y'all.

I saw this post by @apollosgiftofprophecy (hi Alder) about whether or not Apollo should have stayed mortal instead of regaining his godhood, and may I just say I 1000000% agree.

To summarize the post: if Apollo had chosen to stay mortal, his promise to Jason (to remember what it means to be mortal/human) wouldn't have meant nearly the same as if he'd gone back to Olympus. Regaining his godhood allowed him to chose to help people with his full ability and remember his humanity for however long it takes for him to fade.

And if I may add on: Apollo even talks about maybe choosing to stay mortal at some point in the latter half of the series, but eventually comes to the conclusion that to chose to stay mortal would be akin to running away from his problems. And he's right: if he chose to stay mortal, he wouldn't have to face Zeus again and he could shirk his responsibilities as an Olympian. So he decides against it (not that he really ever has the chance to chose). And I just love to take this as a great moment of character development and an insane amount of self-awareness for somebody who started their arc where he did.

But it also got me thinking. And, in short, I came to the conclusion that Apollo must be an idealist simply by the way he views power.

In this case, fiction reflects reality: villains want power. They want control. They want to squash rebellion. And that, typically, is an occurrence we typically only see with villains. Never with the heroes, who rarely want power outside of defeating their enemy. But here we have Apollo, who spends the entire series literally seeking power in his attempt to regain his godhood.

And that has morphed into something really interesting when it comes to representation of power in classical media. More often than not, power is demonized. It's seen as something inherently evil. If a character wants power for themselves, they're likewise seen as evil. Any one of your classical antagonists are going to, at some point in their stories, want power in any which way it presents itself. Voldemort of Harry Potter wanted to live forever. Sauron of Lord of the Rings wanted the Ring of Power. Palpatine of Star Wars wanted control of the galaxy. Zeus wants to rule the Olympians. The list goes on.

On the other hand, in stories where a protagonist seeks power to destroy their opponent, they eventually end up discarding their items of power because they don't want to be 'corrupted'. Harry Potter refused to use the Elder Wand. Frodo destroyed the Ring of Power. Luke Skywalker turned down the Dark Side. Even Percy Jackson declined godhood.

But Rick, in writing Apollo's character, takes an interesting approach and a fun subversion of this trope that I, for one, absolutely love. Previously, he'd written Percy to turn down godhood because he primarily wanted to maintain his humanity. To Percy, being a god and being human are two mutually exclusive concepts. They don't coexist. For Apollo, on the other hand, he accepts power out of a sense of duty, and vows to use it well in the spirit of his promise to Jason. There is no demonization of power. And to Apollo, humanity and godhood are not exclusive concepts. So what does that mean post-trials?

There are two perspectives at battle here. First is demonization: 'power is inherently evil'. But the idea that power corrupts is not necessarily a fact: in my opinion, power in and of itself isn't evil. Yes, it's dangerous, but it's more or less a blank slate. What you do with power, who you are when you have it, is what defines it. And that's a pretty nuanced take, and it comes with its ups and downs, requiring those powerful protagonists to be your most responsible, most dutiful, most kind characters who take up the mantle of power with the full understanding of what it means. Who's to say that you can't achieve power and use it well? So there's the other perspective: 'power is a blank slate'.

Let's look at power from a Zeus vs. Apollo perspective:

Zeus wants power (or at the very least, to maintain his power) as a way of controlling people, squashing rebellion, and maintaining order in the way he sees fit, without any sense of legitimate justice or care for others. It is Zeus' actions that make him evil, not his power.

Apollo, on the other hand, seeks power as a way of solving problems, creating solutions that benefit the greatest amount of people possible, and creating a lasting difference on others to change for the better, just as he did. More often than not, when he reminisces about having power in the series, it's more out of a place of 'this terrible thing wouldn't have happened if I were a god', or 'I could help better if I were a god'. Never once does he view power as a way of controlling or manipulating others. Power, to Apollo, is just the ability to love to the greatest extent possible (re: my meta on Apollo's fatal flaw).

But the interesting thing here is how Apollo views power in general, outside of his own. The idea of demonizing power doesn't even occur to him, despite the fact that he's been the subject of abuse for millennia. What's fascinating to me is the fact that Apollo, having been hurt so often by Zeus' power, doesn't ascribe that same generalization to his own person.

I find that very interesting: abuse does wacky shit to people's brains. By all means, that should have irrevocably changed Apollo's perspective on power as a whole, right? Not if you've learned to view power as something that is part of you, no.

I don't know how other gods besides Apollo view their own power, I actually think it's accurate to say that gods view power as something inherent to their nature. And, honestly, maybe it is. But that's besides the point.

Regardless of whether or not power is inherent to gods, Apollo, throughout his journey, realizes that it must go hand in hand with responsibility and humanity. Power is a privilege. That 'blank slate' perspective is one he learned in his trials, the knowledge that the power he has is something he shapes, and something he has no excuse for. If power is inherent, all of Apollo's wrongdoings are his own failings.

And that's even more interesting when you relate it to his relationship with Zeus. Apollo must likewise know that Zeus' wrongdoings are solely his fault, not a result of his power. It's a fascinating perspective of power coming from somebody who has none, who's been hurt by somebody who has so much. To maintain that optimistic view of power as non-corrosive when faced with your abuser is, I think, the glaring mark of an idealist.

So, what does this mean post-trials?

I think, along the same vein, there is a point where the idealist breaks. They have a glimpse of reality: all is not well. For Apollo, that's at the end of the series where he decides that Zeus is beyond all hope. Take this quote from the Tower of Nero:

Some fathers don't deserve [reconciliation]. Some aren't capable of it. I suppose I could have raged at him and called him bad names. We were alone. He probably expected it. Given his awkward self-consciousness at the moment, he might have even let me get away with it unpunished. But it would not have changed him. It would not have made anything different between us. You cannot change a tyrant by trying to out-ugly him.

More often than not, my favorite stories are the ones where the main character gains power, keeps it, and uses it for good. Aragorn accepted the crown of Gondor. Luke Skywalker chose to train a new order of Jedi. Apollo regained his godhood. And readers of any of my multichap fics know that I love to write this trope as well.

But, much like my mutuals and I have been yelling from the rooftops for LITERAL YEARS, Apollo's story is not over. And once the idealist has 'broken', like we see in the scene above, there's only one way it could go.

To see somebody mishandling their power in a way an idealist knows is corrupt is quite literally a recipe for revolution. Look me in the eye and tell me that the way ToA finished wasn't setting up a revolution. Do it, I dare you.

Regardless, it's safe to say that, at some point, somebody's going to take a look at Zeus and say "you know what? Anybody could do better." Just saying.

Anyways, vive la révolution.

[a masterlist of my other metas]

[guardianspirits13]

I've been thinking about this for a while but like. The gods don't have a human conscience. And I know that's obvious, but the closer you look, you realize that they don't really feel emotions the same way humans do. They don't comprehend time, or death, or love in the same way that humans do. Apollo tells us he's lost track of centuries and forgets that people from thousands of years ago are dead and gone. The gods are incapable of change because they have no reason to do so, and few to no consequences if they don't.

When Apollo is turned mortal he is annoyed, sure. But he has trouble getting the concept of mortality through his head. He's seen thousands of people die- heck, he himself has brought plagues upon cities and set his wrath upon his mortal enemies with no hesitation. But humans to gods are playthings.

And so it isn't until he loses Jason, someone he knows, his half brother, that he understands true loss. He laments Hyacinthus and Daphne, but it was his own godly power that caused their demise- his wrath and jealousy. It was infatuation, sure. But did he really know what love was before he was cast down from Olympus?

Jason doesn't only die, but actively sacrifices himself to save Apollo. This is also moments after Apollo tried yet failed to kill himself instead, and it was in part this failure that led to Jason's death. This is a wound of guilt that eats away at Apollo for the rest of the series, and the lasting effects of grief are shown masterfully in the remaining books, with tears and breakdowns occuring seemingly at random, with overwhelming gratefulness at simple acts of kindness, and with the lingering sense of something missing.

Out of all of the remaining gods, it is probably Artemis who understands grief and other human emotions as closely, since she spends most of her time among born mortals in the human world. When she loses one of hunters, she shares in grief with the rest of her troop. She is in touch with the mortal world, I think, as much as a god can be.

And, as an honorable mention, Hestia- who is used to being overlooked and forgotten but is always ready to offer a smile and a warm meal to anyone in need. I think she understands isolation and loneliness as much as any human, and regularly appears in the mortal world to organize soup kitchens and food pantries for those who are struggling. That's just a headcanon though :)

I hope you enjoyed reading this, I've been itching to get these thoughts out for a while.

[apollosgiftofprophecy]

The Copollogism Essays - Part 1: The Tent Scene

SO. Here we are. I have absolutely ascended to insane over two fictional characters' relationship by this point, and this will merely cement that into place.

I do not know how often I will update this, but rest assured I have it all figured out! I'll update with links below for easy access to the other posts as I analyze our favorite dumpsterfire ship >:3

Believe me when I say I have Thoughts™️

These essays will detail the scenes Apollo & Commodus have shared, as well as a look into how it affected them and we'll also take a look into where it stands in the toxic relationship territory (The answer may surprise you. Or not. I am not quite sure myself at this point in time LMAO).

Additionally, I will be giving my own thoughts on a few things I've noticed within the series. I will refrain from talking about my own personal headcanons and focus on what we're given in the books, as well as any and all historical facts from Commodus's life that relate to their lives/relationship.

From The Book: Part 1 (The Tent) ~ Part 2 (The Assassination) ~ Part 3 (Lester's Reaction) ~ Part 4 (Leo's Questions/Seeing Commodus Again) ~ Part 5 (The Arena) ~ Part 6 (The Waystation) ~ Part 7 (The Yacht) ~ Part 8 (The Final Moment)

Analysis: Part 1 (Apollo and Commodus as Individuals) ~ Part 2 (Toxic Relationship?) ~ Part 3 (Codependent - Or Is It?) ~ Part 4 (Other Thoughts)

Let us kick off with the infamous: Tent Scene.

The Tent Scene

All quotations from The Dark Prophecy

Let's break it down.

I could certainly sympathize with his feelings. Marcus Aurelius was the sternest, most powerful father in the world aside from my own father, Zeus. Both loved to lecture. Both loved to remind their offspring how lucky they were, how privileged, how far short they fell of their fathers’ expectations. And of course, both had gorgeous, talented, tragically underappreciated sons.

How their fathers treat them is certainly a focal point of their relationship, with Apollo knowing enough about Commodus's feelings on Marcus Aurelius to be willing to compare it to his own relationship with Zeus (which is...honestly worse than Commodus & Marcus's).

“My father made me his junior co-emperor when I was fifteen, Apollo. It’s stifling. All duty, all the time. Then he married me off to that horrid girl Bruttia Crispina. Who names their child Bruttia?”

We're told that Commodus has been co-emperor since he was 15 - certainly a young age by modern standards, but rather par for the course in Roman times. However, that does not mean the pressure of being co-emperor wouldn't be a lot on 15-18 year old Commodus.

He is a teenager, after all. And he is a teenager that is rather abhorred to responsibility.

I didn’t mean to laugh at the expense of his distant wife…but part of me was pleased when he talked badly about her. I wanted all his attention for myself.

Oh, Apollo sweetie...you have issues too XD

Wanting to keep your lover's attention to yourself? Yeah, sorry Apollo, but that's not a good sign. This just goes to show that they are both toxic influences, and they brought out the worst in each other.

“I’ll make peace with the barbarians,” he said immediately. “Then we’ll go home and celebrate with games. The best games, all the time. I’ll gather the most exotic animals in the world. I’ll fight them personally in the Colosseum—tigers, elephants, ostriches.” I laughed at that. “Ostriches? Have you ever even seen an ostrich?” “Oh, yes.” He got a wistful look in his eyes. “Amazing creatures. If you trained them to fight, perhaps designed some sort of armor for them, they would be incredible.” “You’re a handsome idiot.” I threw another grape, which bounced off his forehead. A brief flash of anger washed over his face.

Leaving this here for future reference but we WILL be coming back to it!!!! In a future post!!!!

I knew my sweet Commodus could have an ugly temper. He was a little too fond of slaughter. But what did I care? I was a god. I could speak to him in ways no one else dared.

Apollo is the ONE PERSON who is able to challenge Commodus. And from the previous passage, we can infer Commodus is not used to it, even though he is well aware Apollo is the one with all the power in this relationship - although, he sure does like forgetting about that detail a lot lmao

Commodus looked at me, panic in his eyes. “Go,” I said, as calmly as I could, forcing down my misgivings. “You will always have my blessings. You will do fine.”

A sweet thing I find in this section is; 1) Commodus looks to Apollo for comfort, for some sort of it will be fine; and 2) that Apollo is encouraging despite his misgivings. Apollo is aware what kind of leader Commodus could be. He knows there is a high chance of his lover becoming a worse version of himself.

In fact, he even admits it;

But I already suspected what would happen: the young man I knew and loved was about to be consumed by the emperor he would become.

But he tries to go the you have my support, you have my love route. Romantic, but ultimately, it's not enough to keep Commodus from the path he goes down.

into the mouth of the wolf, Apollo says. Because this is the last time he truly sees the man he loved.

The next time they meet? It will be a crazed, paranoid tyrant he has to end - and in doing so, breaks the promise he once made.

He rose and kissed me one last time. His breath smelled of grapes. Then he left the tent—walking, as the Romans would say, into the mouth of the wolf.

This whole, entire scene? It's drenched in a tragic aura. It starts out light and teasing, but it ends with this.

This is their final kiss. This is the final time they get to see each other without the barrier of betrayal between them.

And that, is truly heartbreaking.

[surrealisticcereal]

i think apollo will stay changed after becoming human

first time making something like this. so uh, yeah, kinda sorta analysis after the cut and a lot of this is based off of this analysis and also the toa discord. yeah. let's get this started

i think that apollo will stay "human" even after regaining godhood because that's the point. it's a story about growth, healing, change, hope, and identity. apollo lost his, not just by being put into lester, but his identity, as apollo the god.

and it isn't just apollo. meg is a big one as well, her arc sort of mirroring apollo, with nero being compared to zeus quite often in the narration. i think another arc that sort of mirrors apollo's is reyna. her arc is centered around identity. she needs to find it outside of the senate. apollo needed to find it outside of olympus. and quite ironically, the roman camp is called camp jupiter. and it was reyna that told apollo something he needed to hear. sure, he could never take back all of the shitty things he has done in the past, but he can still do good.

apollo thought he was the worst of the gods, all because he felt. all because he felt devasted when his loved ones died. all because even after all of that pain, he still loved. that is who he is at his core. someone who loves.

the reason he couldn't change at the start was because that man was in denial. but if you ignore his, i will admit this as someone who loves toa, kinda annoying narration and read just his actions, he is actively putting himself at risk to save percy, meg, his kids. he even knows the names of connor and travis, even knowing their personalities enough to know that they are pranksters. because that's who he is behind all of the glitter and blinding smiles. someone who cares, but can't show it.

how can i talk about apollo's change without mentioning jason. jason, i think, is the push that caused him to decide to change. "remember what it's like to be human." apollo and jason both sacrificed themselves for the team, only difference is that jason's stuck. this was his push. that apollo, as the god, could've helped. and that's was what he was going to do.

and in ton, we meet the troglodytes. they called him lester-apollo. lester was used as an epihet for apollo. this is mentioned in the toa server if this rings a bell. lester is now a part of his identity. it's so deeply engrained.

he may forget the people's faces, but their impact will never leave them.

apollo will stay changed because he wants to change. he wants to take those steps. that's what sets him apart from the olympians, the ones who live by one saying. "gods can't change." they can, they just don't want to. because that would mean, admitting what they did wrong and feeling guilt. apollo already was doing this, clear from the song that he sang in tho. he just needed a push.

but there is still hope. the nod from athena showing comradery. the idk what to call it with hera. apollo's trials didn't just impact him, it impacted all of olympus. for better or worse.

sure, maybe he will relapse, turn back into the selfish god he was. but why would you want to believe that? it's a story about hope. so have some.

[the-gateway-to-madness]

Good morrow.

Today I am here to discuss one of my all-time favorite shots in Tales of Arcadia. It's incredibly brief, and the part that makes it my favorite isn't even really the focus of the shot. It's this:

This shot appears in both halves of the Trollhunters/3Below crossover, and that's because of how telling it is. Up to this point in Trollhunters, Aja and Krel seem just completely oblivious and doofy.

And then we get this look from Krel, and the doofiness doesn't add up anymore. This tiny little shot is key to exposing how intelligent and aware Krel actually is in this moment. It's hardened, focused, shrewd- this look is more Krel than most of what we see in the Trollhunters half of the crossover (In Good Hands). You can build an entire sense of what Krel is truly like under his oddity just from this one little shot of his expression and body language narrowing in on the screen. You can see his royal regality for a moment in the way his shoulders set; you can see in his eyes just how much he's absorbing and comprehending inside.

And wow is that just some truly incredible work from the animators.

[trollhunters-eldritch-princess]

it's probably a result of child-centric media, but trollhunters is interesting to me when you view the trollhunters parents as well-meaning, but perennially absent. they have boundless love, but it's never meaningful because they're never there to give it on time.

yeah they come back, but it's late in the game and the children have already suffered.

[randomtoafan]

You know what I like the most about ToA?

The thing that I like so much is that in this series we have the balance thing like Ying and Yang or SUN AND MOON (whit Apollo and Artemis). But here is what is diferent from most of the paralels that complete each other.

Most of the characters that have such a dinamyc are allways the sun, the perfect one who dosen’t have to do anything and still being the preferd one next to the moon, who is allways the one that is ‘not good enough’ and the one that has to suffer to earn some respect.

But what do we see in ToA? The roles are reverst! Artemis, the ,Moon is always preferd over Apollo because unlike him she never knew how cruel their father is. So Zeus will never have to worry that Artemis might overthrow him.

Apollo however known about his father unjust leadership since day one. He realised that his father could have helpd Leto way more easily and faster than him. And the thought that his father never spoke to him before that allways had a small impact on his mind…that was the first thing that made him question just how good Zeus actually was. And the fact that Apollo known more than it should angerd fis father. Angerd his father A LOT. So he was allways looked down at by Zeus. He was allways seen like a bad thing that might steal his place.

So in conclusion ToA is the first ever series(readen by me) to have the ‘sun’ and ‘moon’ places reversed

[kalkiesoo]

olympus has never been apollo's home no matter how much time he spent on it. he seeks out his home amongst the demigods and mortals that aid him in truly seeing himself.

(in the same way, othrys has never been zeus' home no matter how much time he spent on it. he seeks out his home amongst siblings he longs to know and the nymphs that raise him.)

apollo spent years serving zeus as king and plotted a revolution at his feet.

(zeus spent years serving kronos as king and plotted a revolution at his feet.)

zeus, with the help of poseidon, hades, hera, demeter and hestia, overthrew kronos and became king of the gods.

(apollo, with the help of poseidon, athena, hera failed to overthrow zeus and was punished and temporarily turned into a mortal.)

[flightfoot]

TW suicide, suicidal ideation and suicidal thoughts

I'm reading the Of Nero for the first time (I haven't finished it, They just defeated Nero) and I really didn't expect how actively suicidal Apollo is in this book. Is it just my impression? Because every time he faces a problem his solution is like 'and that will lead me to my inevitable death'and he doesn't sound scared or worried, even when those are feelings he's experiencing, there's almost a sense of *relief* and *comfort* in his internal narrative

And for me it's much more active than in the previous books. I feel like the first time Apollo can be classified as suicidal and not just self-destructive is when he stabs himself with the arrow (even if he doesn't think so. His excuse of "I knew it wouldn't kill me" resonates too close to some of my own thoughts for me to be comfortable) and then, crushed by guilt and forced to confront some of his worst actions (which he doesn't even really try to justify unlike in previous books), he acts passively suicidal, but here he gave me the impression of a death seeker.

It doesn't feel like the other heroes behave, they are willing to fight and recognize that death could be an outcome, but they still want to live. Apollo behaves as if this outcome is not only probable but also... Not horrible, because to himself he does not recognize that he is behaving suicidally, that he constantly thinks "My destiny is to find death" is not a normal line of thinking.

But that could be me projecting, I'll admit that.

My thoughts for now are that a. Apollo may be scared of what comes next, not of facing his enemy but of returning to his own abusive home (especially since Meg has always been his narrative foil and contrast and he already explained in detail what it meant to return to that environment) and b. In a mix... I don't know if I should call it guilt and admiration, Apollo has come to think that giving his life is not only the ultimate act of atonement but of love and sacrifice for all the people he loves.

Apollo has also been through a lot in just a few months. Rick treated him like Apollo was his blorbo during whunptober. There was plenty of character development, but it also didn't shy away from some of the consequences and psychological weight.

Hm, Apollo didn't seem suicidal to me in Tower of Nero, really. But he'd definitely accepted the idea that he'd probably die, and that he'd rather that he die than anyone else. He'd seen plenty of heroic sacrifices throughout his trials after all, with the dryads in THO, Heloise in TDP, Jason AND Crest in TBM, and Frank made a solid attempt at it in TTT. Honestly both Jason and Frank seemed to have a similar approach to the idea of dying as Apollo does. They definitely don't want to die, but they won't run from it if that's what it takes for the people they care about to survive.

[yikesy]

no but can you imagine how spooked Zeus must've been when the age of enlightenment rolled around???

like gods are a reflection of human beliefs and he in particular is the personification of absolute monarchy, which he uses to convince the others that his rule is inescapable and eternal, and then in one. fell. swoop. it's made completely obsolete by a movement that is derived from their value of reason and the arts and science and truth and it's literally called the enlightenment

and it's like no fucking wonder when we meet them Apollo is So Surpressed that it's an Actual Danger for him to, even in his toughts, Ever acknowledge where his actual interests, priorities and things he cares about lie and exclusively acts in The Most (though entertaining) purposefully misleading confusing roundabout obfuscating way possible and Zeus is bringing all the big guns to manipulate and isolate and scapegoat and lastly to straight up try to assassinate him

there is Objective Confirmation that, when left to flourish, taken to its logical conclusion, Apollo's ideology will overpower and succeed Zeus', and that it already has, that By All Means he's overstaying his welcome

[daughterofthemuse]

Me: Yeah, makes sense.

*checks notes*

Me: Wait, no, changed my mind, prev got it right

What if I say Trials of Apollo and The Emperor’s New Groove are fundamentally the same

[worlds-oldest-teenager]

I’m interested. How do Apollo and Artemis’s desire to protect each other drive a wedge between them?

I'm glad you askeddd. Thank you for being my first anon ever btw. (@crowmakeska-boom idk if you are the anon but anon, whoever you are, sorry for the wait). This is probably not a very good meta cause it's mostly vibes, gut feelings and filling in the blanks with below the bare minimum of textual evidence but oh well. 

First I'd like to talk about why I think Artemis and Apollo's relationship is kind of distant. They're a confusing duo. When you first meet them in the titan's curse it may seem they don't like each other much or atleast Artemis seems to not be paticularly fond of her brother. Calling him “irresponsible”, “lazy”, “big headed”. But reading between the lines reveals how much the two of them care for each other, especially on Apollo's part from all the illegal help he was dishing out to the questers.

But then when you read some more, their relationship just feels a tad too distant to completely take what they say as just banter. When we see them on Delos in Blood of Olympus the distance is literal. They're recycling banter that's getting old and you can tell that even if it had been lighthearted before, it’s definitely getting on both their nerves now (stolen from fsinger lmao). They’ve both been playing the part for a long time but it feels like they don’t have the closeness anymore to recognize they’re both just playing parts. 

So what happened?

I think it's their need to protect each other that's causing this rift between them. From my point of view Artemis & Apollo are protecting each other from different things but Olympus is at the core of it for the both of them.

The twins have a very different experience of Olympus. Since her introduction Artemis seems pretty critical of Olympus. According to the hunters she's the only one who can get the ball rolling during solstice meetings and she's shown to not really act the Olympian way. Taking the sky off the shoulders of a mortal girl. Shrinking herself down to make the human heroes feel more comfortable and demanding they get rewarded.

It wouldn't be far fetched to assume that she's never fit in with Olympus and doesn't agree with most of the views of her family.

Then there's Apollo.

Who fits in so perfectly with the messed up inner workings of Olympus or so people think. He's perfected his mask over the years and no one is the wiser about the abuse he's gone through or even the fact that this isn't actually who he is.

To me, Artemis wants to protect Apollo from Olympus' true nature. In her head she's got every part of Olympus figured out and for the most part she has. Even if it's not something that works for her I think she would want to protect her younger brother from knowing what the kind of people he surrounds himself with are truly like.

I feel like Artemis would be conflicted on it for other reasons too because if Apollo is aware of the kind of people the Olympians are and he's alright with that, what kind of god is Apollo?

So she'd much rather think of him as stupid and irresponsible cause those atleast mean that it isn't he isn't a bad person. But I feel deep down she doesn't really believe completely that what she knows of her brother is correct.

But then she sees the way Zeus loves Apollo and cares for him and in her mind it's the right decision to let him live this way. He is safer now than they ever were as children.

Apollo on the other hand wants to conceal their father's true nature from Artemis. We know that he cares deeply about appearing fine on the surface because of how others would worry and who would worry more than his older sister.

Artemis and Apollo may be the protectors of youth but the first ever youth they protected were each other. It's the foundation of their relationship and caries on into the present day. Both of them feel a desperate need to protect each other.

I would go so far as to say that this is THE relationship they have with each other. The both of them never find comfort in each other, only protection. You can tell that comfort is not something they usually derive from each other from the way they're both completely blindsided by simple things like an "I love you" , a hug and just concern in general.

Comfort from each other is not a priority for them no matter how much they crave it. The twins purpose to each other is to protect.

So of course Apollo would never tell Artemis about the way Zeus hurts him.

I also think there's a little bit of denial on Artemis' part on just how abusive Zeus is. Cause Apollo is dropping hints. Even the way Artemis talks during Blood of Olympus makes it clear that she understands Zeus is gonna massacre the guy. She just doesn't want to believe it will be permanent.

And it's got a lot to do with the fact that she wants to protect him. Because if she acknowledges this isn't a situation Apollo is gonna come out from unscathed that means that she's incapable of protecting him. That means that she's failed to protect him before and cannot protect him again.

So she'd much rather pretend that Zeus is persuadable and not that bad. That it's Apollo's fault Zeus comes down so hard on him and if he were a little better and a bit more like her he could be safe.

And this would hurt Apollo because Artemis can pinpoint exactly what Zeus is like. But instead of comforting him she confirms for him that this is his fault. That if he could be better none of this would happen. Artemis helps prevent but never helps heal because helping her brother heal means he was in a position to be hurt in the first place.

All this mess and miscommunication and disbelief stemming from the fact that they love each other and never want to see each other hurt creates an impossible distance between them.

But there is light at the end of the tunnel. Slowly but surely they're trying to comfort/ seek comfort instead of just protect each other.

I wept on my sister’s shoulder. I felt like if I let go of Artemis, I would fall back into Chaos. Huge parts of my identity would shake loose, and I would never be able to find all the puzzle pieces. “Whoa, there.” She patted my back awkwardly. “Okay, little fella. You’re all right now. You made it.”

Apollo's trials sucked. But I'm glad it's given the twins the opportunity to bridge the gap between their relationship again.

[apollosgiftofprophecy]

The Copollogism Essays - Part 4: Leo's Questions/Seeing Commodus Again

THE RETURN OF THE ALDER ! ! ! ! !

From The Book: Part 1 (The Tent) ~ Part 2 (The Assassination) ~ Part 3 (Lester's Reaction) ~ Part 4 (Leo's Questions/Seeing Commodus Again) ~ Part 5 (The Arena) ~ Part 6 (The Waystation) ~ Part 7 (The Yacht) ~ Part 8 (The Final Moment)

Analysis: Part 1 (Apollo and Commodus as Individuals) ~ Part 2 (Toxic Relationship?) ~ Part 3 (Codependent - Or Is It?) ~ Part 4 (Other Thoughts)

it's copollo time yo

we're doing two different scenes so buckle up buttercups!!

Leo's Questions

“So what’s with you and the emperor?” Leo asked me, his feet pedaling merrily along as if the exertion didn’t bother him at all. I wiped my brow. “I don’t know what you mean.” “C’mon, man. At dinner, when Meg started shouting about commodes? You ran straight to the bathroom and spewed.” “I did not spew. It was more like heaving.” “Ever since, you’ve been awfully quiet.” - Chapter 20, The Dark Prophecy

I really want to bring attention to how Leo, in his own roundabout way, tries to find out why Commodus upset Apollo so much <3 These two have a LOT in common, so I think it's fascinating how Leo is the one to reach out and give Apollo an opportunity to talk about what happened.

"Ever since, you've been awfully quiet." Leo says, meaning he notices what is normal for Apollo, and what isn't. And he tries to help!

Don't forget that this is not the first time Leo's met Apollo either - the first time, Apollo suggested killing him (and Hazel and Frank). Now, we the ToA fandom know that was very likely a bluff, but Leo doesn't!

And yet, he still shows compassion, in his very Leo-like way <3

Because let's also remember - Apollo is the reason Leo is alive.

Apollo gave Leo the Curse of Delos, allowing him to survive the fight with Gaea and rescue Calypso.

Apollo and Leo can be something so personal <3

Murdering Commodus was traumatic for Apollo. Something that can help with trauma is talking about it with others. Apollo has with Jo, and now he discusses it with Leo and Meg.

These three - Jo, Leo, Meg - are the ONLY ONES in the ENTIRE SERIES to hear from Apollo himself what went down between him and Commodus. As far as we know, they don't tell anybody else either. It's only them.

“Commodus blames me for his death,” I said. “Why?” Meg asked. “Probably because I killed him.” “Ah.” Leo nodded sagely. “That would do it.”

WHEEZE Leo you and Apollo are MEANT to be friends. humor to lighten the mood? instant friendship, go commit arson together <3

I managed to tell them the story. It wasn’t easy. As I stared ahead of us, I imagined the body of Commodus floating just below the surface of the canal, ready to rise from the icy green depths and accuse me of treachery. You. Blessed. Me.

...and there's the water-related PTSD. ouch.

When I was done with the story, Leo and Meg remained silent. Neither of them screamed Murderer! Neither of them looked me in the eye, either.

Fair reaction, all things considered. I myself wouldn't know quite what to say or do if someone I knew told me how they had no choice but to kill their lover in cold-blood.

“That’s rough, man,” Leo said at last. “But it sounds like Emperor Toilet needed to go.”

LEO !! VALIDATING !! APOLLO'S !! ACTIONS !!

THIS IS GOOD BECAUSE APOLLO NEEDS FRIENDS AND FRIENDS WHO TELL HIM WHEN HE DID THE RIGHT THING !!

IMPORTANT FOR HEALTHY COMMUNICATION !!

THEY ARE FRIENDS YOUR HONOR !!

Meg made a sound like a cat’s sneeze. “It’s Commodus. He’s handsome, by the way.” I glanced back. “You’ve met him?”

don't sound so eager Apollo lmao i'm joking

“Once,” she said. “In New York. He visited my stepfather.” “Nero,” I urged. “Call him Nero.” “Yeah.” Red blotches appeared on her cheeks. “Commodus was handsome.” I rolled my eyes. “He’s also vainglorious, puffed up, egotistical—” “So he’s like your competition, then?” Leo asked. “Oh, shut up.”

*cackling*

let's look at this real quick.

firstly, Meg 100% thinks Commodus is hot.

secondly, Apollo's immediate reaction to finding that out is to point out all of Commodus's flaws, meaning he knows just how flawed Commodus is.

thirdly, Leo teasingly points out his hypocrisy, and all Apollo does in response is "Oh, shut up."

delightful little exchange, with a valuable piece of information in there to boot!

“One thing I don’t get,” Leo said. “Why Commodus? I mean, if this Triumvirate is the three biggest and baddest emperors, the Roman supervillain dream team…Nero makes sense. But Commode Man? Why not some eviler, more famous guy, like Murderous Maximus or Attila the Hun?” “Attila the Hun was not a Roman emperor,” I said. “As for Murderous Maximus…well, that’s actually a good name, but not a real emperor. As for why Commodus is part of the Triumvirate—” “They think he’s weak,” Meg said.

we're going to come back to this.

She kept her gaze on our wake, as if she saw her own assortment of faces below the surface. “You know this how?” I asked. “My step—Nero told me. Him and the third one, the emperor in the west, they wanted Commodus between them.”

I wonder what that discussion was like.

Nero: hey uncle for this to work we need someone between us. to keep us from trying to stab each other to death Caesar-style.

Caligula: a triumvirate. excellent. absolutely nothing can go wrong with a triumvirate of the evilest, baddest, most notorious emperors of all time! But who-?

Commodus, exploding out of the nearest river, in a manic rage, screaming for bloodlust:

APOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nero & Caligula, evilly nodding: oh yeah. that one. that one would do juuuust fiiiine.

in all seriousness though, it really does sound like Nero and Caligula were alive first, and Commodus was added later! Caligula was the first to die out of these three, with Nero being the second - that is, if he killed himself in the RRverse same as historical him. He very well could have already made himself a pseudo-god and faked his death...

Caligula, though, was murdered by his own guard, so he had to have been resurrected - perhaps at Nero's behest? Ooo! Perhaps Nero thought he could get Caligula indebted to him, but underestimated just how...uh...batshit his uncle is, and quickly grew to fear him?!?!

perhaps then leading to a proposition of a Triumvirate, and looking back at the past emperors of Rome...they found Commodus.

I have no idea how they could have found out about Apollo & Commodus until Commodus himself told them, so here's another theory:

Nero and Caligula found Commodus in the Underworld, perhaps trying to track down which emperor to join their Triumvirate.

Now, I have a personal headcanon about how Commodus stayed out of the Fields of Punishment. I even wrote a fic about it.

So this is all STRICTLY headcanon! We are in the thumbtacks and strings zone. Tinfoil hats for everyone!!

In any case, they manage to find Commodus in limbo, and upon hearing his MANY greviences with Apollo, decide he's the one.

“So Nero and the dude in the west,” Leo said, “they want Commodus to be a buffer between them. Monkey in the middle.” Meg rubbed her nose. “Yeah. Nero told me….He said Commodus was like his Peaches. A vicious pet. But controllable.”

what an interesting why to describe your coworker...hmm.

really makes you think on how Nero, at least, sees Commodus. We'll talk more on Caligula and Commodus in The Tyrant's Tomb.

Nero seems to see Commodus as a tool to use, just like he does with everyone. It's especially interesting how he specifically uses animal metaphors to describe Commodus - even Leo indirectly contributes to this image of Commodus!

A monkey is commonly seen as a wild creature. Then we have Peaches, a very wild nature spirit.

Both of these individuals can be vicious, as Nero said. When provoked.

You know what that reminds me of?

Don't poke the lion.

curious how it's the lion Commodus wraps himself in, and yet he is perceived as this animal that's been brought to heel. A pet, as Meg explains. A predator, even, to draw out and frighten the Triumvirate's chosen prey...

Controlled, with the promise of revenge.

and yet, we must ask him and ourselves - what will happen after that revenge? when his use against Apollo has run out?

nothing good, that's for sure; for the world, and no doubt for Commodus himself.

against even one of the other two emperors, he is the weakest. his only purpose was to be a buffer between them.

to them, Commodus is no threat. not at all.

Seeing Commodus Again

I peeked over the edge of the channel and was immediately sorry I did. Commodus was right there. - Chapter 22, The Dark Prophecy

AN EXCELLENT START 10/10 HILARIOUS

Lester sure did have his "Shit, it's my ex!" moment!

Thank the gods, we had crossed slightly behind his throne, so neither he nor his Germani guards saw me. My least favorite Cornhusker, Lityerses, knelt before the emperor, facing my direction, but his head was lowered. I ducked back below the edge before he could spot me. I gestured to my friends: Quiet. Yikes. We’re going to die. Or something to that effect. They seemed to get the message. Shivering miserably, I pressed against the wall and listened to the conversation going on just above us. “—part of the plan, sire,” Lityerses was saying. “We know where the Waystation is now.” Commodus grunted. “Yes, yes. Old Union Station. But Cleander searched that place several times before and found nothing.”

pardon me but HISTORY NUT TIME!

Cleander was the name of Commodus's chief advisor! Well, his second chief advisor, who may have had a hand in assassinating the first one, who at the time had been a close friend of Commodus.

interesting implication that Commodus isn't aware of that. furthermore, it's interesting that Cleander (if it's the same guy) was allowed to return to work despite his MASSIVE FAILURES during his time in Rome.

like. look up Commodus, find his wiki page, find Cleander, click on the link, read about him. absolute DINGUS. look Commodus 100% had a hand in the downfall of Rome, mainly because he shuffled his duties off to other (untrustworthy) people, but BY GOD CLEANDER...CLEANDER WAS A BIG PART OF IT.

he had a MOB ready to tear him apart, and it scared it so much he went running to Commodus to save him. if i remember correctly, Commodus quit literally threw him to the wolves. i might be wrong on that so READ UP on Cleander please and roll your eyes at how abysmally he failed.

good lord how embarrassing.

perhaps he started at the VERY bottom of the ladder. and since Commodus goes through right-hand men VERY quickly, that's how he ended up as chief advisor once again.

before being killed, of course. by our man Lityerses, Reaper of Men.

“The Waystation is there,” Lityerses insisted. “The tracking devices I planted on the griffins worked perfectly. The place must be protected by some sort of magic, but it won’t stand up to a fleet of blemmyae bulldozers.” My heart climbed above water level, which put it somewhere between my ears. I dared not look at my friends. I had failed once again. I had unwittingly betrayed the location of our safe haven. Commodus sighed. “Fine. Yes. But I want Apollo captured and brought to me in chains! The naming ceremony is tomorrow. Our dress rehearsal is, like, right now. When can you have the Waystation destroyed?” Lityerses hesitated. “We need to scout the defenses. And gather our forces. Two days?” “TWO DAYS? I’m not asking you to cross the Alps! I want it to happen now!” “Tomorrow, then, at the latest, sire,” said Lityerses. “Definitely by tomorrow.” “Hmph. I’m beginning to wonder about you, son of Midas. If you don’t deliver—”

why in chains specifically commodus- i'm sorry i'll see myself out

another very interesting relationship to discuss is between Commodus and Lityerses.

there's some type of stepdad-stepson thing going on here, faintly. it's not focused on much, but reading between the lines (and knowing what we know about Lityerses and Midas) we can conclude that Lityerses, at least, sees Commodus as a surrogate father-figure.

unfortunately, he may be even worse than Midas rip

hmm...hrm...

you know...this makes me wonder. is Commodus perhaps reflecting Marcus Aurelius's parenting style, or could he be projecting what he thought he felt from his father's rebukes and lectures? putting these unreasonable expectations onto another in an effort to make himself feel powerful and in control?

much to chew on here. hrm hrm hrm...

get some damn therapy Commodus.

“Incursion at the front gates!” Lityerses growled. “I will deal with this, sire. Never fear. Guards, with me!” Heavy footsteps faded into the distance. I glanced at Meg and Leo, who were both giving me the same silent question: What the Hades? I had not ordered an incursion at the front gates. I hadn’t even activated the iron manacle on my ankle. I didn’t know who would be so foolish as to launch a frontal assault on this underground palace, but Britomartis had promised to look for the Hunters of Artemis. It occurred to me that this was the sort of diversionary tactic they might arrange if they were trying to distract Commodus’s security forces from our presence. Could we be so lucky? Probably not. More likely, some magazine-subscription salesman had rung the emperor’s doorbell and was about to get a very hostile reception. I risked another peek over the edge of the canal. Commodus was alone now with just one guard. Perhaps we could take him—three on two? Except that we were all about to pass out from hypothermia, Meg probably had some broken ribs, and my own powers were unpredictable at best. On the opposing team, we had a trained barbarian killer and a semi-divine emperor with a well-deserved reputation for superhuman strength. I decided to stay put.

a very wise decision, Apollo. Marcus Aurelius would be proud.

Commodus glanced at his bodyguard. “Alaric.” “Lord?” “I think your time is approaching. I grow impatient with my prefect. How long has Lityerses had this job?” “About a day, my lord.” “Seems like forever!” Commodus pounded his fist on his armrest. “As soon as he’s dealt with this incursion, I want you to kill him."

see what i mean by 'going through prefects real fast'? Lityerses dodged a bullet.

“Yes, lord.” “I want you to wipe out the Waystation tomorrow morning at the latest. Can you do that?” “Of course, lord.” “Good! We’ll have the naming ceremony immediately afterward in the colosseum.” “Stadium, my lord.”

fun fact I've been to the Colts Stadium for a high school trip.

“Same difference! And the Cave of Prophecy? Is it secure?” My spine took a jolt of electricity so strong I wondered if Commodus kept electric eels in the channel. “I have followed your orders, sire,” Alaric said. “The beasts are in place. The entrance is well guarded. None shall gain access.” “Lovely!” Commodus jumped to his feet. “Now let’s go try on our racing outfits for the dress rehearsal, shall we? I can’t wait to remake this city in my own image!”

Commodus tries on his racing clothes...meaning he puts meticulous detail and attention into his visage...he appears exactly as he wants to appear...

I waited until the sound of their footsteps receded. I peeked over and saw no one in the room. “Now,” I said. We dragged ourselves out of the canal and stood dripping and shivering in front of the golden throne. I could still smell the scent of Commodus’s favorite body oil—a mix of cardamom and cinnamon.

APOLLO STILL REMEMBERS THE SCENT OF COMMODUS'S FAVORITE BODY OIL DO I NEED TO SAY ANYTHING MORE

anywho this is why i'm obsessed with giving Commodus those SPECIFIC scents in my fics. always.

though also remember he has roses in his bathwater...(does he still, you think? hmm...)

hey. cardamom symbolizes love, health, and prosperity. cinnamon symbolizes protection, prosperity, and health.

...Commodus. you aren't fooling us.

I can easily interpret this. *cracks knuckles*

you see, the protection part is important because Commodus is trying hard to not only kill, but sacrifice Apollo - doing so will grant him ultimate power, as per Trophonius's prophecy. Thus, granting him protection - from Apollo, and from the other emperors.

Health and prosperity is simple - that's part of what Commodus wants. He wants to be immortal, eternally handsome and hale. He wants to reign in a kingdom of his own, with entertainment to spare.

but even if he manages to get all of that...it won't be enough. because we all know that deep down, what he desires - nay, covets the most...is love.

how intriguing. to gain the power he wants, he must quite literally sacrifice the only person he ever loved.

tragic. yaoi.

[the-gateway-to-madness]

jlaire thoughts

anyway I think it's very neat that they made claire and jim's powers shadow and light

Jim's sword is made of daylight. His armor glows. And his character is all about learning to continue to be that light to everyone he loves, even in the face of unbelievable darkness (the darkness won in rott, and this is one of the reasons the movie failed). His weapon is light and he goes into the dark.

Claire's innate magical ability is shadow. She's the dark that makes Jim's light mean something, thematically (and not including Toby, for the purposes of this specific train of thought) the focal relationship that makes it clear just how much of a beacon Jim is. Her character is about taking the darkness in her, be it magical or traumatic, and finding a way to bring it to the purpose of the light. Her weapon is darkness and she goes into the light.

That's why they're Romeo and Juliet btw. By nature they should be a tragedy, but they're still in love despite being doomed by the narrative.

[flightfoot]

I love how "Lester" becomes a sort of epithet for him, being Apollo in his capacity as a mortal, his understanding of humanity.

Apollo's perception of Lester changing over the course of the series drives me absolutely nuts because it's one of the most emotionally impactful arcs in his character.

He see's Lester as a prison sentence initially. He's the husk that Zeus made of Apollo when he stripped him of his immortality, his domains, and his memory. Not a single thing about the mortal body he's placed in was his choice and he resents it. Apollo even refers to Lester as a distinctly separate entity at times. There is a clear disconnect between what he views as himself and his punishment, and the only times he acknowledges it as his identity is to be self-deprecating or dismissive.

Then halfway through his arc, at the lowest points in the narrative where he's lost nearly all of his abilities, he spirals into self doubt. Maybe this was all he really was. Maybe without the support of his powers and domains, this was all there is to Phoebus Apollo. He's accepting Lester's negative traits as apart of himself, vocalizing his fear of being useless and unworthy of godhood to the readers. While the first portion of the series developed Apollo's character in terms of him accepting responsibility, The Burning Maze is when Apollo's most significant internal changes take place.

He stops lying constantly in his narration by this point, and we get to see how he actually feels about himself and others. What he was hiding from the readers - most notably, was his feelings of inadequacy.

But by the end of the series, once he's rightfully Apollo again, he admits to us that it doesn't feel right. He suddenly realizes that he does miss being Lester; that the godly form he's wearing doesn't fit like he once thought it did. Despite the trauma surrounding his trials, being Lester was the first time Apollo was able to be authentically himself without fear of needing to put on a mask. He was braver, kinder, and more beloved when he wasn't putting distance between himself and others.

Because that's the person he wants to be.

That's the real him, Lester Papadopoulos.