#josstice league

[thingsasbarcodes]

Justice League (2017)

[baneshake]

The promotional art Lego put out for their Justice League (2017) sets didn't HAVE to go this hard, y'know.

All credit to The Lego Group, natch.

[chishnfips87]

Batman Movie Tier List

This is all my opinion, don't take this list to heart.

Tier template: https://tiermaker.com/create/batman-films-as-of-2023-15103072

[ordinaryschmuck]

Random question for DC fans: What do YOU consider to be the worst DCEU movie?

Not what others hate or claim to be the worst. Just what YOU, personally, consider to be the worst.

And, to help spread positivity, what do you consider the best? I, uh, want to test something.

[falllpoutboy]

they better not cut ben’s cameo out of aquaman 2 because i absolutely refuse to have his last cameo be in the fucking flush where he has, yet again, more cringy dialogue about he wants to bang diana 🙃🙄

[wonderbatbvs]

BVS was truly something very, very, very special.

I'll never get over how PERFECT Ben Affleck was as Bruce Wayne & The Batman. Looking back, it's really the biggest tragedy for all DC fans imo, that we never got his take on a Batman movie.

He truly loved & understood how complicated Batman is as a character. I'll always feel happy when I remember that The Batman himself, Kevin Conroy (we miss you 😭), said that he's THE BEST Batman we've ever gotten.

It'll always be a bittersweet feeling when looking back on The DCEU in general. They could've really had something special in The Snyderverse (with some tweaks you could've separated The DCEU & Snyder related stuff, it just needed to be handled with absolute care)

The Snyderverse & DCEU are basically different universes to me anyway, since The Snyder Cut (thankfully) & Josstice League exist (unfortunately)

[originalleftist]

So WB gets called out all over social media for minimizing Amber Heard's role in the first Aquaman trailer, and their response is to... cut her completely from the second one.

Stay classy, WB.

I will be supporting this film for ONE reason, and that is to support Amber Heard. Because if it flops she'll be the scapegoat, and it'll be an excuse for companies never to hire her for anything again. Which is what her vindictive abuser and his fan cult want.

But after this film, I am boycotting DC content and Warner Bros films for the foreseeable future. Between this, the Batgirl cancellation, Josstice League, and Zaslav and the bungling of the DCEU in general, I've had it.

I MIGHT make an exception for the Wayne Family Adventures webtoon, because I can read it free online and not actually give DC money. But that's it.

[userautumn]

watching josstice league for the first time. prepared to hate it on principle even if i don't

[wonderfulworldofmichaelford]

The two Psycho Analysis reviews are coming along (Kaiba’s is a little daunting with all I have to cover), so let’s set up the next IIRTB to be interesting… but there’s a twist! There’s going to be TWO polls! There will only be half the choices on each but I’m putting some juicy choices on each!

For the first poll, which of these superhero movies should I take a look at?

1. Dwayne Johnson was going to change the hierarchy of power in the DCU with this… it didn’t really end up working out that way.

2. The first Captain Marvel film to flop in 2023, and the one that made Zachary Levi cry on Twitter.

3. The second Captain Marvel to flop in 2023, and the film that really had people wondering if the MCU was salvageable.

4. On the surface, this just seems like another poorly reviewed DC movie… but there’s a nightmarish production story that casts a dark shadow over this.

5. The first try at adapting the Dark Phoenix, stuffed with plots and directed by a massive dickhead.

6. Andrew Garfield’s first outing as Spider-Man, which has been getting post-NWH reassessment.., but does it deserve it?

[princess-of-the-corner]

In some versions, Batman is a cryptid even after being active for decades. In the Arrowverse, prior to Elseworlds, Green Arrow didn't believe he was real (Flash did, while Supergirl knew him from her Earth and is implied to have even known his identity), in part out of jealousy ("I am the first vigilante!" he insisted). In Josstice League (I don't think in ZSJL), Cyborg is surprised that Batman is real to which Batman replies "I'm real when it matters."

So Mystery Inc. could still be interested in whether or not Batman is real at any point in Batman's timeline.

For my concept of a Scooby-Doo series, I had the idea of the gang driving to Gotham and discussing Batman. Shaggy questions Velma on if she believes Batman is real, and she does believe he is real, but she believes that the supervillains he fights are sensationalized. The argument would lead to Velma insisting "There are no monsters in Gotham City!" Shaggy retorts "There weren't monsters in Coolsville either," a point to which Velma concedes. (Due to an event in the Season 1 finale, Season 2 would have real monsters appear along with costumed crooks.)

You knw what fair enough!

Batman does sound very cryptid-y and he doesn't /really/ make many public appearances in a 'Hero Celebrity' fashion like other Heroes might. So it's understandable for either things like 'people assume that 'Batman' is a figure made up to scare criminals' or even 'maybe there's a Vigilante, but the stories are exaggerated' to even going the other direction and believing 'Batman is actually some magical monster thing and not just a guy in a costume'.

[navree]

...at least it's not the snyderverse? i'm trying to remain optimistic. 😣

Confession time, I have ambivalent feelings about the Snyderverse. There's stuff I didn't like but there's also stuff I liked a lot.

For one, I think it had really solid casting. Cavill nailed the look of Superman, J.K. Simmons as Gordon is brilliant, Ray Fisher was really good as Cyborg, Jeremy Irons is brilliant in anything and God almighty I wish they'd kept him for The Batman as Alfred cuz I loved his Alfred, and Ben Affleck is a really good actor and he had some great moments and great looks as Bruce Wayne. The only duds were Ezra Miller, who's psycho, and Gal Gadot, because she's not a very good actress (most of the success of Wonder Woman, which I loved, came from Patty's writing moreso than anything intrinsic in Gadot's performance).

There's also some good ideas and good bones to Snyder's ideas for the DCEU. I like most of what he was trying to do with Superman's origin in Man of Steel, and honestly, Batman's motivation for his conflict in Batman v. Superman makes a lot of sense. Bruce is someone whose abhorrence of senseless violence is the cornerstone of his beliefs; his parents were killed in an act of senseless violence, and brutality for brutality's sake without a thought to consequences is something he fights against at all times. It is absolutely reasonable that Bruce, seeing not only wanton destruction from someone who is making no attempt to mitigate it, and has infinitely more power to do real harm than anything else Bruce has seen, has serious concerns and wants to at least be prepared in case he ever goes rogue, not to mention the movie does give us solid reasons for it to be personal with how he loses people in the destruction of the WE building (and also that scene of him running into the danger while everyone runs away? brilliant). I also like that this is an older, more jaded Bruce who has been distinctly marked by the death of his child and the havoc that wreaked on him (though I don't give a FUCK what Mr. Snyder says, that is not Dick Grayson, when has Dick Grayson ever been the dead Robin, that is Jason Todd, I accept nothing else, it's Jason who Bruce lost even in the Snyderverse). It's canon to the comics that Jason's death made Bruce more violent, more volatile, and actively changed him for the worst in a way that not even Jason's resurrection has been able to fully heal, so that being part of Bruce's issues in the Snyderverse works as well.

And I also want to acknowledge that Snyder has absolutely been shafted by WB. The director's cut of BvS does make more sense and have more to the story than the theatrical version. And then there's the whole mess with Justice League, even though I don't fault Snyder for leaving production due to his daughter's death, and I'm fine with the push to see his version that came out of it, especially given a) how bad Josstice League was and b) Joss Whedon being a shithead in general. And there's the fact that WB was clearly gunning for a DC MCU from the getgo, without understanding that, for all its myriad of sins (and oh boy are there many), that took time, and you really had to build up a lot of those characters individually before slowly mixing them into a shared universe that could be its own entity. WB didn't get that, so demanding a Justice League before we even got solo movies for any of the players besides Superman was always gonna be doomed to fail, and executive meddling can't be laid at Snyder's feet.

And I do want to mention that the Snyderverse had movies that weren't created by Snyder or had much input from him, both good and bad. Wonder Woman and Aquaman, I thought, were great, and those were made by different creatives, and Suicide Squad (2016) was atrocious (though I did like that Affleck was willing to make cameos to lend credence to the universe, and that it had Harley as a participant in the death of Robin, because most people don't really grapple with the fact that, even though Harley didn't exist when ADitF happened, any retcon to have her involved with Joker from the getgo is going to have her as a likely participant in the torture and murder of a child, and it's an interesting way to delve into her character and how her own agency intersects with her being a victim of the Joker's abuse).

But there are some serious, serious issues with the Snyderverse that did make it really hard to root for.

Most glaringly, Snyder has good ideas, like I outlined, but I don't think he's a very good writer. Take, for example, the much derided Martha scene. I get what he was going for, Bruce is lost in rage and Clark's focus on saving his mother not only reminds Bruce that Clark too has people he loves, just as Bruce does, but that he has his own underlying humanity, humanity that Bruce cannot ignore anymore and has to confront, that Clark is more than a threat, but a full person. It's a way to highlight how lost Bruce has become in this mission, and to show how humanity comes from who you are, not where you're from, and that Clark is good to his core in a way that's admired. That's the point of the scene, I get that, I understand it, but there had to be a better way to write it than that. I mean, Hell, just have Clark start talking about "my mother" as Bruce is getting ready to gut him, which can lead to confusion on Bruce's part because "your mother's an alien", which leads to Clark struggling to explain that his mom's in danger even as he's near death himself (and also idk why Lois is there, I love Lois as a character, though I wasn't overly fond of Amy Adams's version despite my love for her as an actress, but she shouldn't be there). But instead we get the Martha thing, and it ends up reading as Bruce realizing, somehow, that there are more people named Martha than his mom, and it ends up reading really stupid. This is what plagues a lot of Snyder's DC stuff, especially in BvS and with Bruce, which is that the ideas work but his execution in the minutia really doesn't and bogs the whole thing down. (I will say that I did like the writing of Bruce in the scene at Luthor's party, especially when he was being sneaky, that was good).

Snyder also is a good director in terms of visuals, very good, I like his visuals in a lot of his stuff. But I don't think he's a very good director when it comes to performances. He can't really pull anything stupendous out of any of his actors. And some people, like Ben Affleck, are good enough that you can still get good stuff from them irregardless, but some of them are not. And Henry Cavill, however much I love him in The Tudors, is one of those actors who does need a director to guide him to give a truly memorable performance, especially if he's as outside of his wheelhouse as he was with Clark. So Clark, who's our first introduction to the Snyderverse and also its emotional lynchpin a lot of the time, falls flat, because Snyder doesn't really seem like an actor's director, in spite of his visual eye.

There's also the killing thing. For one, just off the bat (heh), Batman shouldn't kill. Ever. It is the antithesis to who he is on every level, and there's a reason why he sticks to it so rigidly in comics canon and why any attempt to make him a killer, even via inaction (cough Nolanverse cough) rings false and hollow. For two, Superman is a killer in this universe. Not great, but Superman has killed in the comics too. But somehow, this doesn't really seem to bother him. Clark is, indirectly, responsible for a lot of civilian casualties after Man of Steel, and BvS really should have shown him grappling with that continuously, in a serious way. He's standing as a symbol for hope, he wants to help wherever he can, and there are now scores of people who've left behind grieving loved ones, because of him. It should affect him a lot more than it does, drive a lot more than it does, especially as we watch how those deaths harden Bruce, and yet we don't really see anything from him, and it affects his character. Not to mention it makes him a hypocrite when it comes to Batman. "Oh the Batman branded someone while stopping them from sex trafficking young girls, he's so terrible!" you have literally snapped someone's neck, shut the fuck up. And also, yeah, Clark killed Zod. That should also affect him a lot in the next movie, not just because of how killing and loss of life should affect him in general, but because Clark, a Kryptonian orphan with no connection to his homeland, no people like him, has just decimated the only concrete connection to his home that he has. If BvS wants to highlight Clark's solitude, Clark's loneliness as an alien and how that affects him AND the people around him along with the general populace, his feelings on having to cut off a Kryptonian connection to save human lives should get a lot more screentime.

And, while I do laud Snyder having good base ideas, some of the base ideas didn't work. I understand wanting to shift Lex into being the kind of billionaire most people in the 2010s would recognize as "classic billionaire", make him more of a Zuckerberg or an Elon Musk, but the way they went about it didn't work at all. Doomsday coming in last minute didn't work, having Death of Superman this early didn't work, making Batffleck an angry Batman rather than the sad Batman he was born to be didn't work, Jonathan Kent's death didn't work, etc. And honestly, having it be a Dark Knight Returns adaptation really didn't work. Even beyond the general cultural stuff that influence TDKR, and my issues with it as well as Frank Miller as a creative, the Batman against Superman stuff didn't work in the Snyderverse, because Snyder doesn't seem to get why those stories hit so hard. They work because Bruce and Clark are friends, best friends, closer than brothers, they love each other so dearly and would risk so much for each other, put their lives on the line for each other no matter what, be there at their lowest (there's a World's Finest issue dedicated to Clark trying to help Bruce with the aftermath of Jason's murder, it's really good). Seeing them at odds, seeing them fight, it hurts because we know what was once there, and seeing it fall apart into enmity and violence is painful. Longtime friends turning on each other hurts to witness. It doesn't work if Clark and Bruce don't know each other and don't have any personal connection, because that takes away the edge that makes those stories tug at our emotions.

Like I said, ultimately I'm ambivalent. There's stuff that worked, especially in concepts and in broad strokes, and there's stuff that didn't, like Snyder's writing decisions once detail had to get involved. And between that and the ten million behind the scenes issues, like the studio constantly meddling in everything, like Ezra Miller's issues, like Amber Heard having the nerve to be abused by her husband which got everyone real mad at her because he was popular twenty years ago, it ultimately made the whole thing a giant mess that was doomed to fail, even if Snyder had been flawless (which he really wasn't, but the outside stuff that kept coming up in every single installment certainly exacerbated everything).

I'm hoping the studio backs off Gunn, and that he keeps up his good writing streak that we've seen with stuff like Guardians, and that the decisions I've seen that are worrying me turn out fine (or are at least rectified and dealt with in pre-production why is the FUCKING FLASH DIRECTOR in charge of Batman why God why?????? and also again please don't have the starting Robin be Damian I have strong feelings about that even though I love my dear boy), but it's early so we'll see. Fingers crossed.

[buckys-arm-and-rios-dagger]

I love how in The Boys you can very clearly tell which companies they're riffing on, especially when it comes to the two comic book giants. I know because it's an Amazon show it feels very "SILENCE, BRAND", but because it's shown in the story and production/costume design I choose to believe its the creative team doing it more than Amazon themselves. I mean, writers and actors aren't the only ones that get treated like shit by studios, they're just the most recent to strike. Anyways, my favorite examples from this season (so far, I'm in episode 2) Voughtland and the Dawn of The Seven stuff. I know the characters themselves are meant to be commentary on different DC and Marvel heros (Homelander being a Superman/Captain America, Maeve is very clearly Wonder Woman, etc.), but in terms of things outside of that. Like with Dawn of the Seven, the Vought Studios logo is VERY similar to the Marvel Studios logo, but the font used in the poster feels very reminiscent of the one used for at least the Josstice League version of JL, in addition to all the digs at the Snyder Cut stuff (i wouldn't be surprised if at some point we saw a #Restorethe Snyderverse parody at some point and I am here👏for👏it👏). Vought itself is obviously meant to be a Disney/Amazon parody (I will die on the hill that there's some Amazon mixed in there too even if it's supposed to be overly Disney with the Vought+ reference, Voughtland, etc). Voughtland was also really fun to me. I don't love the "kingdom of Inclusivity" thing because I think the people it's making fun of are going to take it as them "owning the libs" when in reality it seems to be parodying what conservatives seem to think Disney is turning into (at least. That's my read of it.). Crimson Countess's show is I know meant to be a riff on America Sings and other Disney park shows that are full of revisionist history, but I also can't help but wonder if they also were thinking of Rogers the Musical when they wrote that part (idk if Hawkeye was out at the time S3 came out but with the privilege of hindsight that's what my brain went to), especially since Soldier Boy is meant to be a "dark Captain America/Winter Soldier but he's ACTUALLY a villain and not just a brainwashed POW forced to do bad things" type. And like, don't get me wrong I'm fully aware I'm part of the group they're making fun of (I mean. Look at my url), but I always say that in order to love Marvel you gotta really fuckin hate Marvel, and I'm not blind to the issues with it, both the ones they're making fun of and the ones they aren't. Anyways, I don't think I'm saying anything new or groundbreaking or #deep, I just needed to word vomit my thoughts somewhere.

[tljisthegoat]

JJ Abrams is one of the most boring directors of all time. Why? Because he truly can't make an original movie that makes me feel in any way possible. His cinematography? Wack. Him copying Rian Johnson after retconning TLJ? Wack. His ability to work with actors and get the best performances outta them? Wack. His ability to use mystery boxes that he LOVES using without any understanding on HOW to use them? Wack. His understanding of Reylo (which he started ironically enough lmaooo) Wack.

His understanding of Star Wars? Wack. Him being a corporate stooge? Wack (like seriously grow a backbone & stop taking it like a bitch from the mouse). His use of themes & messages to really make a memorable movie beyond the typical popcorn flick? Wack.

Star Trek fans tried to warn us about him. Unfortunately, we didn't listen.

He's right there next to Joss Whedon. The Butchers of Beloved Franchises.

When you see a movie directed by either of these men, you just wonder how they got so lucky directing some of the most iconic movies in cinema history. Instead of unique directors like Zack Snyder & Rian Johnson, who both made absolute masterpieces.

You compare TLJ & BVS to TFA, TROS & Josstice League, and it's like comparing a timeless magnum opus to a dumpster fire.

[dirbenaffleck]

THE GUY YOU LOVE has THE GUY YOU HATE on speed dial 🥰 yes this is about nolan and snyder(s) cos i always have them being overportective over zack and never wanting him to see the monstrosity of josstice league

[falllpoutboy]

the flush is the spiritual successor to josstice league (2017) all the way down the corny jokes and scene set up

[shelassos]

i know all the characters were massacred in josstice league but the way i was lowkey rolling my eyes at Diana too… like get it together PLEASE i beg of you 😭