#jason todd negative

[fancyfade]

Jason in canon: I'm going to kill crime lords and drug dealers because I'm mad at my dad, so I can be a crime lord who controls crime. I view gotham as a place you have to beat into submission. I don't really think about victims of crimes one way or another. Also I refuse to kill the joker bc my dad has to do it, even tho he may survive and murder more people because this is textually about revenge and not protection

Jason fans: he's so feminist leftist and progressive! He's clearly doing so much more to help victims than batfam because clearly he is then only one who has ever suffered, and here's why his extrajudicial murder is the most progressive thing ever. I'm going to also act like he predominantly goes after supervillains who escape prison a lot rather than like. Crime boss lackies.

[barbie0303]

One thing I´ll always find funny about Jason and Tim´s books from the New 52 is how they emphasize that they spent their childhood fighting crime or whatever when we are talking about the continuity that had Batman going through 4 Robins in 5 years... like what are they talking about?

[milesofstars]

dont worry about it jason...

[angstandhappiness]

Interesting

so many issues wrt the idea of responsibility and such in batfandom would be fixed if people remembered that leslie thompkins and selina kyle exist. like those scenarios people keep making up about protecting gotham’s infrastructure happen in the comics but because women are involved no one seems to give a shit. “why isn’t anyone offering support in the alley??” leslie is. “why isn’t anyone protecting the women and children of gotham??” selina is. “why isn’t anyone more involved with stopping the mob in gotham??” helena is. “why isn’t bruce more proactive in fixing gotham outside of batman??” who do u think funds leslie’s clinic.

[prlssprfctn]

I know we love discussing Jason being hater in Internet (which is very true, and I think he simultaneously does it from both his own name and Red Hood, depending on who/what he hates at the given moment), but I suggest you this: Jason has an anonymous account to defend his favs on internet. Specifically, vigilantes and superheroes. Specifically, his family members or friends.

And no one needs to know that.

Jason, from his fake account: I think Batman fumbled the case, tbh. But we gotta give some respect to Robin, he did great.

Someone replying to him: Right??? Batman is getting old and predictable, lmao

Jason, in the instant: Lol, what would YOU know about Batman. Watch your goddamn mouth. Idiots like you are alive because Batman is in this town.

Random on internet: Uhh, Arsenal? Lol. Isn't that one Arrow's boy that became a junkie, lolol.

Jason, appearing out of nowhere: *five thousand word essay about Arsenal, his merits, and how insensitive society that ends up with passive-agressive "hope it helps!" sentence*

Random hater: Red Robin is easily the most useless bird in Bats, idc.

Jason, spawning in comments: Say that again

Of course, if you try to question Jason about that matter, he will never admit it. In fact, he often switches accounts if he feels like any of Bats are close to finding out who is writing these furious reddit posts, but. But Barbara knows. And every time Jason tries to bully someone in the family in real life, she can't help but tease him subtly.

Jason: Urgh, man, you suck. How could you miss these idiots?

Tim, frustruated: Fuck off

Barbara, in comms: User "WonderSon" would drag your ass for bullying Red, btw.

Tim: Yes, he fucking wouldddd

Jason: ...

Jason: *tired sigh*

[stargazingdustbunny]

Batfam incorrect quotes

Tim: My therapist told me I have a short life expectancy.

Dick: Why? What's wrong? Is it because of your spleen?

Damian: Don't you mean your doctor? Therapists are not supposed to diagnose that.

Tim: I meant my therapist. Apparently, I suffer from "chronic recklessness and self-endangerment".

[thedevilundercover]

Yk what dc definitely needs? An ao3 cameo bc have you seen your fan base, there is definitely some rando writing Batman/Brucie fics in Gotham because Batman Is Not beating the sugar baby allegations.

And have you seen the fucking batfam, Jason writes BatBruce fanfics whenever he feels Chaotic and Tim edits them whenever he get pissed at Bruce

Now I really want to see like fandom wars in the DCU but it's just the Batkids fighting for their ship bc they want [blank superhero] as their step parent

Imagine going on Tumblr and it's just like the same 10 blogs threatening each other because they don't agree with who's fucking batman? It'd be hilarious

Twitter fic this Twitter fic that, what about tumblr fics, huh?

[fandom-hoard]

The thing that really annoys me now that Jason is past his murder era, is that I feel like that should make it EASIER for Jason stans to have empathy for Damian. Anything Damian has done wrong Jason has done x10 worse and Damian did it while being an actual little kid raised in a murder cult. But you're all for Jason's redemption's arc while you continue villianize Damian? Yeah okay. Sure, Jan.

said this before but it’s always so annoying when people make Damian, 10 year olds, brown boy, deprogramming from a cult, the villain of the 2009 batfam comics, and not Jason, 20s, white guy, literally mass murdering random prisoners + actively attacking the heroes the villain. like. he’s right there. committing murder as we speak

[jasonsthighholsters]

all comic fans know how to do is: develop superiority complexes based on their personal perceptions of a character, eat hot chip, and lie

[ayamari-no-goshi]

Okay, we gotta talk about Pit Madness in the comics.

I keep seeing a bunch of people saying it’s not real. Problem. It is. It’s just rarely brought up.

It might not be the earliest reference, but we have this panel with Talia talking about how madness seizes him after dipping in the Lazarus Pit

Batman #244 (1972)

But this isn’t the only time we get reference to this. The panel below also talks about lore of the Lazarus Pits and again mentions that madness.

Batman: Bane of the Demon. Issue 3 (1998)

This gets referenced again in Hush when Bruce is fighting who he thinks is someone pretending to be Jason having been resurrected in the Pits during Hush.

Bruce is thinking about how he almost out Jason in a Pit after his death, but due to the madness the Pit can cause and Jason’s injuries to the head, he thought against it.

Batman # 618 - I think it’s volume 11 in the Hush omnibus (2003)

We see a reference to it again regarding Jason in the Lost Days. What’s super interesting here is that Talia states the Pits did NOT drive Jason mad, but Ra’s warns her that it’s possible the madness can occur up to years after a person’s dip.

I find this particular one fascinating, simply because of the lore that Pit Madness can take hold decades after a dip in a Pit.

Red Hood: the Lost Days #2 (2010)

Now, regarding Jason. There has NEVER been any concrete proof he’s suffered from Pit Madness. It’s very popular as a head cannon simply because Jason’s characterization is so all over the place.

Edit: Please keep in mind Jason was calm, cool, collected, and conniving in Under the Red Hood. Saying he’s Pit Mad there takes away all of the impact and gets rid of his motivations. Please be aware of this.

Now, that’s not saying there’s not a connection between Jason and the Pits. There was an entire arc in Red Hood and the Outlaws (2010) regarding this which also deals with Jason’s time with the All-Caste.

I still haven’t gotten around to reading that part, but it’s where the permanent augmentation theories come from. Oh, and Jason can canonically make constructs from Lazarus Water. Ra’s can too, but yeah… it’s a thing.

Red Hood and the Outlaws 2010 #27 (Released in 2014)

But while there’s no confirmation Jason’s dealt with Pit Madness, you know who has? Cass

Batgirl 1 #72 or 73 (2006)

Cass was revived after taking a blow for someone. And Shiva revived her, but there’s no permanence to it. And to my knowledge, I could be wrong since I’m not as familiar with her runs, this is the only time it gets referenced with her.

But going back to my original point that started this: Pit Madness is real. It’s just rarely seen in the comics. And if you want to use it, that’s fine - just be careful about its use since you can ruin characterization with it.

Edit 2: while there isn’t much of Pit Madness seen in the comics, it does seem to wear off over time. We also know a dip in the Pit temporarily increases brain power and physical strength/ability.

We also know that there’s a Lazarus Pit under Gotham and that its waters leech into Gotham’s water supply.

That’s referenced in Teen Titans vol. 3 issues 40-41 (2007) - forgive me. I don’t feel like looking up those panels

[fakakta-art]

my band au jason todd based on peter steele and type o negative

[fancyfade]

People who want jason to be woobified or morally right always gotta mischaracterize others to try to make them more like him or make him look better.

[oifaaa]

I will never understand the obsession with making tims favourite robin Jason when it couldn't be more painfully obvious that tims favourite robin was Dick

Like people are so caught up in the concept, the made up angst, that tims favourite robin beat him up that they straight up misunderstand how much more significant Tim and Dicks relationship is not to mention the added layers of Tim originally being created as the ultimate self insert character which for a good number of readers meant they grew up with Dick as their favourite robin and didn't really like Jason just for not being Dick

[bestangelofall]

Look, I understand the need for feel good fanfic, and writing good brother Jason content. Sometimes we want to write stuff that wouldn't happen ever, and that is inherent to fic, and we love it.

That being said,

I find it odd to see Jason being put in a situation where there's abuse reveal of some other batkid (usually Dick or Tim) done by Bruce and Jason is all protective of them. Honestly, I don't think that would make a lot of sense.

If it's a situation where everyone is mad at Bruce for mistreating one of his children/mentees, then Jason would actually resent them all for not doing that for him. Bruce has arguably killed him at the end of UtH (and eve if you do not read the text as such, Bruce still hit his throat with a batarang and left him to die), and then took him to the place where he died to trigger him, then there was Rhato25 (and then Rhato27, where Bruce was "hehe sometimes you have to get beaten, you understand, right?", recently Gotham War and then the conclusion of Dark Prisons, etc. And with the exception of Batman 138, no one protected Jason in any of those situations.

(yes, I know they might not be aware of those things, but this is also a discussion of fan content, and in fan content, sometimes they do know about those things)

(Dick beating Bruce in Batman 138 might not even be completely about Jason at all, though I am okay with that reading too.)

And let's be real, that guy is naturalizing his own abuse, so I wouldn't put it past him to naturalize others' as well. In the specific case of Dick, Jason might see that as some fucked up good sign for himself, after all, if Bruce's fav is also going through similar things, maybe Jason isn't so bad himself.

(and yes, the reciprocal is also true, Jason abuse reveal also wouldn't garner that much sympathy for him because the bats don't give a fuck about him, but I've seen that being more discussed in fandom).

In general, abuse reveal involving Jason in any way (either as the abused party or the one angry on behalf of someone else being abused) would be much less feel good than what is usually portrayed. And I think that's neat. They are not okay, and I think exploring a very thorny and bitter reveal fic could be interesting

[hello-eden]

dcxdp #39

Danny is Jason's pit madness

[cologona]

Sometimes I feel like maybe I’m being too hard on Bruce because he’s a grieving father and you don’t judge people for how they get by when the dead usually stay dead, but then I remember that the Waynes are the closest thing Gotham (maybe even the whole of America in the DC universe) has to royalty and Batman claimed the city for himself, so when Bruce turns abandons the responsibility he himself took on for getting Jason justice, it’s not a just a dead body he turns his back on, he’s betraying a member of the people he claimed. A citizen he was supposed to serve.