#it's when you get into the double standards of people saying you shouldn't ship Angel or Vaggie in het ships

[celtrist]

I cannot. Stress enough just HOW MUCH I relate to this statement. I enjoy some Alastor ships (and heavily dislike some but thats sorta normal in fandoms), even if not my preferred type of relationship depictions. I also enjoy going the route of Alastor being someone not at all interested in romantic or sexual relations. But I ENJOY both. And I think shipping Alastor has it's place in fanon.

However, like OP said, there's SO MANY PEOPLE. Who make ship art of Alastor and just toss the aroace identity out the window. And yeah, it does not feel great. A character's worth in fandom is how shippable are they for the most part, and a character having a canon orientation that directly GOES AGAINST THIS while also being the fan favorite is pretty hard to swallow for some. Personally, it's never the shipping itself that bothers me as much as the people who do the shipping with Alastor.

And I mean, for the most part I only have vibes to go off of, but those vibes are typically not great I'll say. Which again, that's just my personal view of it and it's not like it's only people who aren't aroace that ship Alastor that I have this problem with (but the person I'm thinking about does a ship I really don't like and is going by their own relationships as an aroace person. So not sure how much that counts y'know?)

It's more that a character just is never allowed to not be interested in romance or even sex. A character can not be not interested in being intimate. Again, it's not the shipping itself, and it's not the shippers by themselves. It's that the fandom consistently ignores and honestly barely celebrates Alastor’s aroace identity, more the aro part than the ace part.

And while true, somethings people say really sound like they're trying to make it seem like "well it's totally possible for him to get with someone because it's a spectrum". Again, true, but it feels like it's uses as a less genuine reason sometimes and more like an excuse or desperation for the possibility of it being canon (this isn't everyone of course, it's just how it reads sometimes)

And the aro part, yeah it's a bit dubious as I don't think it was ever explicitly stated and if it was it was in past streams. But by the same token, Husk being pan was confirmed in old streams too and there's no question from anyone that that's his canon orientation. In addition, there's still a lot of things that do imply Alastor's romantic orientation being aromantic (like Rosie's comment about Charlie reads as her suggesting their dating not having sex. And referring to Alastor as "ace" might've been using the term as a catch all of aroace as it's often used that way). Again, it's not wrong, but people will more often remind others that Alastor was not confirmed as aro but no correction on him not being confirmed as homoromantic. Or at the least, they just really don't want to take the implications into account. Which again, fair, it's all only implied, but it certainly reads as "deer can't be aro". (As a side note, I cannot stress enough that there's nothing wrong with shipping Al but personally, the fact that one of the most popular ships involves an aroace character and it's rarely in a qpr light [which not a fan of referring a qpr as a ship but I digress and is a personal take], it kinda lowkey feels like if the most popular ship in the fandom was a canonically gay character in a straight relationship if you get what I mean there. Like if a ship like Angel/Vaggie was in the top three ships. There's nothing wrong with it, there is just a level of "hmmm" there for me. But hey, maybe I would change my tune if an actual alastor ship I liked got popular lol)

TL;DR I think shipping Alastor has it's place in fanon and is something I enjoy along with Alastor being purely aroace with no room for romance. There's just a lot of shippers who aren't aroace who seems to throw away or really wanna ignore this aspect of Alastor’s character that's really disheartening. Both aspects of his aroace identity is pushed aside, put into question of authenticity, and is rarely acknowledged or celebrated in the fandom. Hopefully you get what I mean, suck at explaining myself sometimes. And I don't know if OP necessarily agrees with me, but I certainly understand being someone who identifies as aroace (at least currently) and enjoy shipping Alastor while also feeling icky when I see other people ship him sometimes. And we obviously don't need shippers making daily announcements saying "hey I think aroace Al is fin" obviously. People are gonna focus on what they're having fun with the most and that's fair. But an occasional acknowledgment to the identity or a little more love give to aroace Alastor week or whatever it's called in the same level or at least closer level to the ship weeks he has would be nice. Not necessary obviously, and I'm content with the thought that at least the ships aren't really ever gonna be canon (hopefully), but it would be nice.

No hate to anyone, can't stress that enough. I ship Alastor too, it's not like I don't. It just reads like most people would really prefer him not to be aroace so ships can happen and they use workarounds to justify it possibly happening in canon. If you're aroace and uncomfortable with Al ships, you're valid. And if you aren't aroace and still enjoy shipping Alastor too, I'm not gonna say you're invalid for having fun. It's just as OP said, sometimes it feels icky when people toss the aroace identity out the window.

As an aroace person, it's so hard being a Hazbin hotel fan who loves most of the Alastor ships, because on the one hand, people are constantly complaining about how you can't ship him with anyone because he's aroace, which is just untrue, especially since Viv herself said to we can ship whatever we want, let me enjoy my representation how I want, but on the other hand most of the people who make content for Alastor ships aren't aroace and just completely ignore that part of his identity when making ship content, and it is so icky. It's such a struggle, like I just want accurate aroace ship content without being belittled, is that too much to ask 😭😭

[kathrahender]

One of the things I dislike most about fandoms is the hypocrisy of their fans. And this is about ships again, yes (it's about characters too ngl).

Every anti-Bakudeku/Catradora fan says things like "How can you ship couples like these? It's so abusive! It's disgusting! Catra/Bakugo were so mean towards Adora/Izuku! Catradora/Bakudeku is so toxic and you shouldn't like it!" and then, when talking about Hiccstrid people always love them together. Even if Astrid was also a bully to Hiccup. Even if her development was null (don't say she had development, her "redemption" arc was shit and she needed more time in screen and more scenes between her and Hiccup to change from "I hate all the dragons" to "I was wrong about them". And one scene with an OST called "Romantic Flight" is not enough to make her redemption believable). Talking about development, do I really have to say that you hate Catradora/Bakudeku, but at least Catra and Bakugo apologized to Adora and Izuku? Astrid didn't say sorry to Hiccup for bullying him/hurting him. And you should be aware of that.

Bakugo and Catra didn't redeem in one day, they didn't get up one day and decided to be nicer. No, they had to work in their redemption and they also had to work in their relationship with the people they hurt (Izuku and Adora). Astrid didn't do that. All she needed to change was flying in a dragon with the person she used to hate.

Having all of that in mind, tell me, which relationship would be more healthy, logical and believable? The ones where the bully had to work hard to make amends for their mistakes, to heal their scars to make it better for the MC? The ones where the bully apologized to their victim, to the people they hurt? Or the one where all it took to change from "I hate you so much" to "I like you" was one scene, and they didn't even apologize for being a bully/being a bad person? Think about that.

And think about another thing too. A girl hurting a boy is bad. "But she-" No. "But she's not being cruel and she-" Enough. Don't fucking justify female-on-male violence. Violence is violence. If you hate Bakugo/Catra so much for hurting Izuku/Adora, then treat Astrid the same way, because she was not an angel before changing. She's not innocent. She was a bully too. And if you despise Bakugo/Catra's past actions, despise Astrid's past actions too.

Where I also saw Double Standard in media is in shows where there's a female character stalking a male character. Two examples that come to my mind right now are Hinata Hyuga from Naruto and Marinette Dupain-Cheng from Miraculous Ladybug.

The thing about them is that a lot of people love them. A lot of people love a female character stalking a male character. Dear God, Marinette learned the daily schedule of Adrien, and she even traveled to another country for him. Because she couldn't bear thinking he was in another country where she couldn't see what was he doing. That's not freaking normal, you guys. "She was a girl" "She didn't know what was she doing" "She's just in love". Excuse me- What. the. hell. Okay. So you're saying you're okay with a girl being so jealous that everytime her "crush" talks to a girl she needs to be around. You're okay with a girl entering her crush's house without permission (Do you know that's a crime, right?). You're okay with a girl having her bedroom full of photos of her crush (and I'm not talking about a fictional character from a show she likes. I'm talking about a real person. Because in Miraculous Ladybug's world, Adrien is Marinette's classmate, not a character from a show). I'm sorry, but if you think that's okay, there's something wrong with you. People can like someone and have a crush, sure, but what she has is an obsession. What she's doing is not normal. (And she can do that in the show, after all she's a character, but don't act like she's a nice person and an innocent person because she isn't. And definitely don't see her actions as a normal thing).

People, please, don't think what she's doing is "iconic" or something like that. If you're watching this show, please, don't do the same as her with your crush because is awful and disgusting. She's not "cute" for doing this. She has a problem, I'm being serious.

If she had a better love story with Adrien, like she did in the movie, I would understand the Adrinette ship because in the new movie it's just beautiful and wholesome and it's actually healthy. But when it comes to the show, the Adrinette ship can't be nothing more than toxic. So stop acting like Marinette's actions towards Adrien are okay (Yes, Adrien's actions towards Ladybug weren't okay neither, but this post is about female characters).

What Hinata Hyuga did -in comparison with Marinette- is not that bad, but even then, following her crush (Naruto Uzumaki) everytime he's with his friends/classmates is not nice. It's not cute. It's not something people should do. And the Naruhina ship honestly makes no sense. Okay, I get it. It's the type of romance we all want to have. We all want our crush to fall in love with us. We all want to have a relationship with the person we used to have a crush on. But if you want to include that trope if your story, if you want them to end up together in a show/book/movie, give them development. The ship has to feel natural.

We have to feel/see the chemitry. And I saw (and still see) no chemistry between Naruto and Hinata. Sasunaru, on the other hand, has a lot of emotional moments together and moments when they bond (their chemistry is right there). And it's not for my own preference, but they would have made a better couple. Mostly because they shared more screen time with each other. Even though Shikanaru and Gaanaru are also good options for a canon ship. Because they also had chemistry. But Naruto's love for Hinata in my opinion didn't feel natural. It was forced.

After all of this, let me say something more. You probably don't care about a girl stalking a boy in fiction. You're probably like "She's not doing anything wrong" "She's a teenager" "Stop being judgmental, she's a good character" "She's a nice person". If what they do it's okay for you, let me ask you a question. What if their gender was reversed? Yeah. Imagine if Marinette and Hinata weren't girls. Imagine if they were boys. Imagine if a boy went to another country to control the actions of another girl. Imagine if a boy entered his crush's house without permission. Imagine if a boy stalked the girl he likes to see if she's talking to another boys. Imagine if a boy had pictures of the girl he likes in his bedroom. What would you think then? Oh- You would think it's disgusting? It would be disgusting for you, right? Why? Because it's a boy?

People, have this in mind:

👏👏👏 If a boy does something bad and a girl does the same thing they both need to be treated the same way 👏👏👏

A girl hitting a boy isn't funny. It shouldn't be played for fun. As well as a boy hitting a girl. Neither of them is funny. And neither of them can be justified.

A girl stalking a boy isn't funny. As well as a boy stalking a girl. Neither of them is funny. And neither of them can be justified.

That's why I ask you to stop being two-faced. If you despise someone's actions, you despise someone's actions, whether it is a boy or a girl. You want equality? Then fucking stop with the double standard.

A bad action is a bad action, no matter who makes it. Period.

[astroboyanalysis]

2. The Hot Dog Corps

I've always thought this was one of many Astro Boy stories that would lend itself very well to a more serious and adult remake, (a la Pluto) but this one with a distinct horror vibe. You know. On account of the body horror.

Atom (smiling serenely): wow Mr. Tezuka you're getting really angry can we change the subject

Anyway obviously he makes a good point here. Could talk for a while about cultural double standards especially when animals like dogs and cats are involved. But like, this is an explicitly sympathetic story to the dog and animal testing is a thing we do. So I feel like it should have been allowed to show but I do understand different countries have different standards surrounding what is deemed "appropriate" for children to think about and see. America's just very strange in general to be honest.

Wow that's awesome Mr Ban. I do not want to dog sit for you ever btw.

First really funny gag so far imo. You go Kenichi have a dog treat.

Okay this is interesting to me and probably no one else. Tezuka put little gags in like this if he thought it was getting too serious, which is fine and normal - but it's been less than a page since the last gag. People say we have short attention spans now (and we do) but entertainment has basically always vied for your attention and had to constantly jump around and dance and say LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME! DON'T LOOK AWAY!

anyway I love you hyoutan-tsugi don't listen to him

Ban confirmed in debt (joking. or am i)

normal way to act yeah. Fuck up this guy's car and probably kill him with fire and then drown him and also steal his dog and be like. Tee hee hee... stupid idiot... hee hee...

Smiling his angelic little smile like "Did you break the law and endanger others mister teacher?"

God hes just so cute. There's gonna be a lot of "ohhhhhhg my god.... ghgh,h,..... oghgh h look a him...." probably. but ohghghghggggg g loook at hi

Excellent use of class time man

Now's probably a great time to mention you'll notice a heavy focus on like school and child development and stuff in my analysis - I'm a student teacher in Elementary! So I think about this kind of thing a lot and it sticks out to me as a result. Anyway.

Great gag. There's some good ones in this story.

Okay because I'm reading it physically but using an online version for images, most online versions stop abruptly right around here so I don't have good pictures. I'm sorry in advance for the wonky pictures I took.

Idk grand duchess it kind of seems like your fault because you decided to kidnap dogs instead of just having someone train them for you at your bigass winter palace or whatever the hell.

I love how evil things are here. You just dont get cartoonishly evil villains nowadays (because I don't watch kids TV all that much I suppose. But also there's a general trend toward movies and shows without cartoonishly evil villains that I've noticed which is interesting. Suits reality a little better since most people won't be like YOU SEE! I'VE DONE IT SO I CAN KILL AND MURDER! MUAHAHAHA! when you ask them about their motivations in doing something.)

HOLY SHIT THERE WERE PEOPLE IN THE SHIP THEY BLEW UP I get that this is the point but I don't think I ever noticed that before lmao.

Oh hes so cute.....

This is strange as their minds are dog minds and therefore they probably shouldn't have robotic movements. A keen observer like Atom should be able to recognize that they're not all that organized when compared with robotic timing.

"Aren't supposed to be able to" just indicates to me that it's a limitation imposed by creators to align themselves with the laws of robotics and avoid getting in trouble, which I would think would also mean people could make robots that can kill and there's really no reason they wouldn't be able to do that. That said it would be very strange for the story if robots really could be used as weapons as easily as they can in real life. But unless you categorize a machine and a robot differently based on their AI and self determination, I would think it is easier for a robot to kill humans as they don't have to take it into account at all if they aren't programmed to.

That said, in the world of Astro Boy, the laws of robotics are absolute and people do not really break them. They just do an insane workaround loophole like. I dunno. Putting dog brains and nervous systems into robot bodies. Shit like that. I suppose if they were laws that could be broken, that would be really interesting though. It would be like something the United Nations has agreed on so a country caught doing something against it would be refused trade and that kind of thing. So they'd have to be sneaky.

I'm getting off topic.

Okay so there are human workers in the fortress, but all the guard members are cyborgs.

(Annoying guy voice) BUT I THOUGHT HE ONLY LISTENED TO BAN!!!!!!

strong contender for funniest panel so far

REALLY good way to show 2 days have passed this is awesome

To be honest it makes sense to me that a traumatic surgery and event like having your nervous system and brain stripped out and put into a new shape and new environment and shit would make you forget most things. Really sad.

actually devastating im not kidding

Ok yea sure. Literally why though. Atom you do it because you're the main character I guess. This is where I really appreciate Pluto's realism in that Atom is used more as a figurehead and symbol of peace than like. a functionally useful substitute for specialized jobs.

Then again because he's recalling where it was in the next panels, it's possible this is more a result of not having functional and immediate satellite imaging at the time this comic was being written, so you would need someone who knew where they were going to lead you there.

This would indicate to me that there is a temperature Atom's circuitry is not able to function at due to it being too low, but Space is colder than this so I think that is not the case (or we can say it's not the case that space is cold in this universe). Anyway it's slightly less horrifying than him potentially being trapped in ice and aware of the passage of time and fully cognizant so I do see why Tezuka did this.

Also he's shapes.

(The rest of this post will be continued in a reblog as you can only have 30 images per post)

[celtrist]

Something important to add is that if you AREN'T comfortable with this portrayal of Alastor or anything like that, or think it's "erasure" or the like, you're feelings are VALID for that, especially if you're in the aroace community and get bummed seeing ship art of your favorite aroace character. BUT, you do NOT need to harass anyone for how they might depict and aroace character in a romantic light (QPR or not).

Can fandoms have issues dealing with an aroace character? Yes, and that can be chalked up to how heavy shipping/romance is within fandom culture. But does what a fandom does with an already established aroace character dictate their canon authenticity? No! Canon will not change because someone made fanart of an aroace character in a romantic relationship, same how canon wouldn't change depicting a gay character in a straight relationship.

YES, there is arguably a "problem" so to speak with people completely disregarding some orientations but holding others as something unchangeable (hetero is a bit of an exception since most media in the past and still now are dominated by a less than diverse cast/weren't allowed to be diverse in gender or sex). YES, it can get a bit annoying to see the double standards of people say placing Alastor in a blatantly romantic/sexual relationship when they're also of the "shouldn't ship Angel or Vaggie in a straight relationship because they're gay". YES, it CAN be tiring to constantly see a character canonically averse to sex (and hinted romance) in those type of relationships and not feel great about it for one reason or another.

This is all true but fandom is, for many, an escape and people often portray their own experiences to these "dolls" for funsies or self-exploration. How you feel about how people handle this isn't invalid and you should not be demonized for thinking Alastor shouldn't be shipped in anyway. However, just as people shouldn't cram down their ship with Alastor down your throat, YOU should not cram down that "he can't" be in a relationship down others. I think it's fair to bring it up in a civil way or if the topic is brought up, but if someone is minding their own business doing ship art of an aroace character that you strongly oppose of, just move on. Block the tags, that's what they're there for (personally think it would be helpful to have separate tags for QPR like using "+" instead of "/" or a whole new ship name so it doesn't get mixed with the flat out romantic stuff, but I digress).

And kind of like the response to the question essentially says, QPR is a very unboxed sort of relationship that will have different boundaries between different groups (some are all good with smooching in a QPR relationship, others aren't. Both are valid for this type of relationship.) So while yes, some aspects might get more romantic than comfortable with (for me personally), it doesn't always mean the relationship itself is romantic and shouldn't be disregarded as such. (if you're gonna disregard it, at least just do it in private rather than to the person).

TLDR; Don't like it? AVOID IT! It can be hard with how suffocating romance/ship stuff is in fandoms, but it's not anyone's duty to cater to YOUR dashboard. It can be a bummer to feel like people ignore the aroace identity to get some form of shipping in, and it's fair to feel that way. But it's not fair for you to dictate how they interact with their favorite media as much as it isn't fair for them to dictate how you interact with it.

Do you think there's a right and/or wrong way to handle QPR? I know it's a tricky relationship, but it feels like most/some people kind of just slap the label onto a ship while depicting the ship as just romantic/having no difference with a romantic relationship. (this is why I was a little surprised when you said you do radioapple qpr when it reads a lot more like normal romance). Not meant as an attack or anything on anyone, just genuinely curious more than anything. Again, tricky relationship

So Imma put this link to info at the top of this post: https://taaap.org/2022/07/16/qprs-part-one/

Alright, so please take what I say with a grain of salt, because that's exactly what it is. One small bit of perspective in a mass of many people who experience QPRs in their life and/or are on an aro/ace spectrum. I also have NO QUALIFICATIONS on gender/sexuality theory, so my opinions are shaped by what I've learned and experienced personally. While people may identify with the same term, we are all still individuals with our own experiences. Words can help describe a phenomenon, but it doesn't make everyone who identifies with the word into a monolith.

So I've stated a few times that I navigate shipping Alastor similar to my own experiences as an aroace person. (I guess I'm sharing about myself with this post, but I think that can be helpful to just spreading awareness of an "alternative lifestyle"). So I'm romance-repulsed and sex-repulsed LOL but I'm also "positive" about those things. Like I view romance and sex as lovely, fun experiences people can have, but I've never been into it personally. It's fun for me to consume media about romance/sex, but yknow, it's also fun for me to consume media about violence or isolation. Doesn't mean I want to experience or engage in any of those things lol.

Anyway, I'm a huge people person and I love to party and yknow it seems most people are really wanting to fall in love or fuck or whatever pretty much all the time, but especially at parties hahaha. Normally, I'm pretty touch-averse, but I love dancing so much and it's a blast to dance with a partner (salsa especially!! i don't care for grinding for probably obvious reasons). And to connect the two previous sentences, people (whatever gender they are) would be very kissy-touchy on the dancefloor. Which i honestly dont really give a fuck about hahaha. I don't really get anything out of kissing but I also don't mind it. I just like to dance. It's all a pretty superficial--but still genuinely fun--experience for me.

When it comes to my deeper or more intimate connections, I have had friendships that have felt SO on the line of what was viewed as a romantic relationship. They were exceptional friends and we connected on a level that was deep and true, but it wasn't romantic. Sometimes we'd slow dance, sometimes we kissed, and it rocked. But it wasn't more than that, it was all that it needed to be. I didn't want more and neither did they (except one situation and so we had to stop being friends lol whoops). From the outside, people would even refer to us as partners in a half joking way, but we really were just friends. And I love those friends!! And a huge part of what made those relationships (which at the time were described as 'situationships' because we didn't know any of these terms haha) was their convenience. We either lived in the same building, worked together, or were neighbors LOL. I'm still friends with those absolutely lovely folks, but we don't live around each other, so our QPR just appears a lot more like any ole regular friendship. But it's not like there was a feeling that we transitioned into something different than before. It twas what it twas! (Had to take a pause while I was typing to reminisce fondly for a second, okay back to hazbin hahaha)

SO, whenever someone asks or it comes up, MOST OF THE TIME I do ship alastor through an aroace lens and experience with QPRs (specifically, MINEE because they were fun and I've never felt like doing this before I met a character like Al). And my XP is: "this isn't gonna be a partnership and we ain't fucking" LMFAO. so yeah!

When it comes to using a queer term like QPR, I just hope folks are considerate in their writing, but I also am inclined to just believe them if they say that's their intention because QPRs can look very different. Again, aroace and ace folks are not a monolith. The terms help to describe a human's experience. I'm inclined to think people are writing in good faith.

And all this being said, I want to just emphasize that I really don't think it's necessary to consider any of this shit if you want to ship a fictional character. I understand wanting to be protective of a character who shares an identifier with you (I personally don't wanna see romance/sex with Al in canon). But shipping is a fun thing a fandom does that often does ignore canon. Tale as old as time. I don't think anyone needs to be beholden to canon when they're writing fanfiction or having fun. If we did, I would have like--5 artworks on this blog hahaha. These characters are like dollies, do whatever you want. It's cool if people don't like it and I think it's cool if people do. It's just not that serious. There are ships I'm not particularly into or dynamics that I am not enchanted by, but whatever. I can just scroll or close my eyes.

TLDR; shipping in fandom doesn't need to be taken seriously at ALL. It can just be fun way for someone to play with fictional characters they like. That being said, I think it's good practice to use queer terms thoughtfully.