#it's for me so so important to his characterization

[hylianane]

I have an opinion about Holly Kujo and I’m a little scared cause I dont know the Jojo fandom enough to come in with what I think is a hot take.

I’ve noticed that, in fanworks, a lot of people portray Holly as tougher than she is in the show. And it makes sense, cause the idea of her being so weak-willed that she couldn’t handle a stand when even baby Shizuka could manifest one is kinda bs and a testament to Araki not being very confident with writing women at the time (thank GOD he got better though, so, so much better).

But. What always gets me is when her relationship with Jotaro is written to be a little more standard, still loving but with the child having a healthy fear of their mom’s anger- unlike what we see in Stardust, with him constantly being a brat, calling her “bitch” and her shrugging it off with an “Okay!”. And also him getting himself thrown into jail while she still can’t bring herself to get mad, just upset. And that’s a very fun play on them too, but I just worry that people who default to this dynamic for Jojo and Holly might not see how the canon characterization of their relationship is interesting in its own right.

Because even tho Holly being a doormat is a creative choice born from Araki pussying out of giving her a stand, it doesn’t change the fact that once he made that choice he gave it great importance. I think the fact that Holly’s idea of supporting her son is just accepting everything he does without any anger, is central to their relationship. It’s how, despite having a mother who loves him unconditionally, Jotaro is still a very troubled teen and emotionally withdrawn. Though it’s easy to blame it on Sadao’s implied absence, or troubles in school, we don’t have a lot of textual evidence for that.

But kids who are raised without at least some semblance of discipline and structure typically stop seeing their parents as authorities, and most importantly, protectors. A more textually-backed explanation for why Jotaro is always acting tough and independent is because he doesn’t have any adults in his life who he would trust to help him. He loves his mom, he traveled the world to save her life, but while doing that he saw himself as her protector, not the other way around, not the way it typically should be.

Think about, for example, how the adult he mouths off to the least in his life is probably Avdol. And I think part of that is because Avdol walked into that police station, took one look at Jotaro, and instantly clocked everything I just said. Because while Holly and Joseph tried to to get him out with simple words (and for Holly, tears), Avdol was there to force him out. And at first Jotaro says, “If he tries to force me out, I’ll just stay here even longer”, but Avdol doesn’t give him choice. And he doesn’t win by overpowering him (if he had, I dont think he’d have gotten the same positive result, I am not pro setting troubled teens on fucking fire) but he outsmarts Jotaro and doesn’t quit the fight until his goal is achieved. He stays in control of his emotions when talking to him, and proves himself to be someone strong and assertive. So later, on the trip to Cairo, Jotaro is more willing to rely on him than he is to rely on his own grandpa. (+, it’s a similar thing with Kakyoin, who he trusts almost more than anyone else, because he saw Kakyoin’s will and power first-hand when they met, and left with the lesson that Kak is someone he can rely on to protect of both himself and Jotaro. Someone with strong convictions, but most importantly, willing and capable of clashing with Jotaro if necessary.)

All this to fucking say. In a world in which Jotaro was raised to fear his parent’s reprimands (and I don’t mean fear to an unhealthy amount, an abusive amount), he would act very differently than he does in the show, and his relationships to other characters would probably look very different. Holly’s personality and parenting might seem like it was an afterthought to Araki, but I think he truly did take great care in making it consistent with her son’s character. She is a very loving mom, who is very loved in return, but what I think a lot of people perceive as a flaw in her writing is actually just a flaw in her character, with narrative weight and interesting consequences. And I’m not sure how many people are really aware of that.

[constantfragmentation]

It's bugging me...

The inconsistencies and a lack of detail and continuity in S2. S1 was all about the tiniest details.

Don't get me wrong, the animation is gorgeous, BUT --

The underwater scene is where Jinx lets Silco go.

He was RIDDLED with bullets. Yet, not a mark on him?

Why is his damaged eye closed? I thought he didn't have an eyelid. Artistically, I think having his lifeless eyes glazed over would have been more dramatic, considering it's Silco. Nah, he just sinks like Jack to the depths of the Titanic.

How deep IS the Pilt River?? I'm assuming that's where she 'buried' him.

The whole first act is so damn rushed.

No one seems to wonder what happened to Silco? He was only the main person holding the Underground together by the strands of his pomade hair. His death is a BIG deal, yet it's glossed over. No one questioned any of it???

Sevika is just, okay, let's move on like it's another day (granted, Zaunites are probably predisposed to be like that, but that doesn't make for good storytelling if you're not letting the audience in on anything), and chatting it up with Jinx as if they just bonded. I didn't feel that happen. I like that they low-key ripped into him post mortem, because that feels natural but what got them in that room together DOESN'T.

I want to know how these characters FEEL. You got that in spades during S1. But S2 is just expecting you to assume or they would attempt to take the time to use what would be great writing and evolving these characters.

Caitlin is hurting, I get it. But she went full Commando Psycho mode. Girl, everyone has lost parents, siblings, etc... She doesn't even flinch when Vi tells her Enforcers killed BOTH her parents. She's lost a beloved sister... but Cait is affronted when Vi shirks from becoming an Enforcer. Let's just forget what PIltover did to Zaun for generations and to LOADS of people.

Vi? Oh girl. What happened to you?

Jinx is a bit better but not much. I don't buy Silco's death was a zap to the brain to chill her out a bit. She's still my Chaos Queen but unless there is something to explain some shit in the following episodes, I'm going to be really ticked at the lack of care in characterizations with who are the supposed leads in this story.

Jesus Viktor. That's it. That's all I got.

Well, I did LOL when he woke up and gave Jayce the "bye Felicia" in 2.2 seconds.

We don't get to know what Ekko is thinking since all this shit went down? As far as he knows, Jinx is dead and to learn to she bombed Piltover?

The music videos substituting for the plot are REALLY bugging me. It's lazy writing. The music was used well in S1 to ENHANCE the scene (well, except for giving Imagine Dragons an animated cameo). Here, it's used as exposition, but it's not nearly good enough.

Useless characters and side-characters. Poorly executed plot devices. Uninteresting plot devices and trying to use the S1 parallels for characterizations.

S1 took time to introduce and flesh out these characters, even the side-characters.

We only had Vander for 3 episodes but he was a HUGE character. Marcus, Mylo, Claggor, Benzo, Grayson, Finn.... all were interesting and played an important part.

Jayce continues to be blah. So I'm not bothered.

Ambessa looks to be the new villain but it's not hitting with me. Plus, there's zero foreshadowing on some stuff in her arc that would have been useful last season.

I like Mel but I'm waiting to see what happens with her.

Hermydingding going all Mission Impossible. Just stop. Does he not give two furry fucks about what happened to his fellow councilmembers and Piltover?

I feel like RIot is trying to shove way too much into one season and sacrificing good story-telling to do it.

I miss the details.

So far, I'm really underwhelmed with this season.

[angelinthefire]

I gotta disagree with a lot of this. I don't think fans are wrong for wanting more interiority, but i think the original post is overlooking what character-centric stuff we've gotten, and is asking for things out of line with who the characters are.

Like Heimerdinger. Has always been a bit detached from the present day and from people's current suffering. It's not surprising to me at all that he's just focusing on scientific questions.

Regarding Ekko - We know that people aren't generally aware that Jinx killed Silco because Smeech was surprised to find out. We also know how he feels about how things are progressing from his conversation with his bat-guy friend.

As I'm going back through the original post, I'm seeing a number of questions that I think viewers can absolutely assume need time to develop. And also a lot of questions about how characters feel about Heimerdinger which. Isn't that important imo.

And Jayce - the dude is freaking exhausted. He's sleeping in his lab. When Viktor wakes up, Jayce has survived a rocket attack, witnessed the deaths of his colleagues, been attacked and almost killed with a chainsaw. Now his best friend is miraculously awake. A guy can only deal with so much at once, (and a scene can only deal with so much at once while still remaining coherent). Jayce ends that scene, not with rational questions about what's going on, but with an emotional outburst. He's overwhelmed. Of course he's not going to do great processing new information. That's good characterization.

And later, considering what Jayce is going through and how his mind is clearly on other things, I think him being like "sure this may as well happen" when Heimerdinger shows up both makes sense and serves to reinforce his current emotional state.

And I think the op is being really unfair regarding Vi. First, I don't think it was ever made explicit that Jinx firing on the council was an act of revenge. In context, I would call it an act of chaos and despair, actually. I'm pretty confident that we'll get Vi's opinion on an uprising when one actually happens, which it hasn't yet.

The stuff about Vi joining the enforcers because Maddie gassed her up is factually untrue. The point of that scene was primarily to let Vi know about the effort that Caitlyn went through to get her the badge, which you can tell from Vi's reactions. She doesn't show any particular friendliness towards Maddie at all. And I think it's pretty obvious that Rene's attack and Caitlyn's response to it were the prime movers to get Vi to join the enforcers. Seeing as that happened immediately before. The stakes were raised with the attack, creating the sense that something had to be done. And Vi promised Caitlyn that she wouldn't let things fall apart - she's entering caretaker mode regarding Caitlyn, the same role that she's used to playing with Powder. Very interesting characterization imo. (Also not healthy, but why should caitvi be healthy anyways? This is a drama).

Regarding Vi and Jinx in general - throughout the entire first act, Vi is convincing herself that her sister is gone. That's how she's processing all of this. She's separating Powder from Jinx. Jinx is the monster that killed her sister, Vi says that explicitly. And the random kid intervening is more than a random kid intervening, she's a reminder that Jinx is still capable of loving and being loved.

I mean, obviously fans can have criticisms, etc. Are there some things that are clumsy, or info-dump-ish? Sure. But you can't ignore nuance and then say there's no nuance.

Character writing in Arcane Season 2: Act 1

I have big issues with the quality of dialogue and characterization so far in Act 1. Characters and conversations have almost zero depth. Examples:

Heimerdinger - Does he know about the Council attack? How does he feel about it? Is he relieved he was voted out beforehand? Does he feel responsible for the attack, in that if he had taken action sooner, Zaun would not have been driven to this level of violence? Does he feel guilty for the deaths of his colleagues? Viktor was almost killed by the attack but got saved by the very Hexcore Heimerdinger hated. What's his reaction to that??

Lol who cares? Let's do goofy Disney channel hijinks by sneaking into a lab with Ekko. He meets Jayce there. Does he express his concern or relief that his former student just survived a Hextech explosion unscathed? Nope!!! Wacky humour time!!!

Ekko - Does Ekko know Jinx killed Silco? If yes, how does he feel about that? Is he shocked? Confused? If he doesn't know, what does he think happened to Silco? What do Zaunites like him make of Silco's death if Jinx got rid of his body? How does he feel about the Council attack? Does he support it or does he think Jinx went too far? Is he on the fence?

Lol who cares? We don't need to know any of this. Let Ekko have goofy scenes with Heimerdinger. Speaking of Heimer, what the fuck is Ekko's opinion on Heimerdinger's criminal negligence of the Undercity for the past two fucking centuries? Because he sure warmed up to that hairball quick. This is an issue that started in Season 1 Episode 8, but I had hopes they would address it in Season 2. I guess not.

Jayce - How does Jayce feel about seeing Heimerdinger again, when their last meeting was Jayce betraying him? We know he felt guilty about it in Season 1 so why was there no inkling of it during their meeting in the lab? Why doesn't Jayce tell Heimer that the Hexcore saved Viktor? The Hexcore having the potential to save Viktor's life was a huge point of contention for them in Season 1 and was partially the reason for Jayce's betrayal, but neither of them mention it. Lol. Viktor wakes up and tells him that Sky was killed by the Hexcore in their lab. Jayce: "Oh no! Anyway..." ?????? No questions as to how and when this happened? No questions as to where Sky's body is? You just learned your employee was fucking killed in your lab a few days ago and this is your reaction?

Vi - How does Vi feel about the fact that the tyrants who killed her parents are dead by Jinx's hand? She herself wanted to take revenge on the Council in the past, so how does she feel now that her little sister's the one who did it? When Caitlyn yaps about avenging her mother's death by killing Jinx, does Vi realize that Jinx's attack was in itself vengeance for their parents' deaths on the bridge? Which were sanctioned by the Council? Will she ever bring this up to Caitlyn? Probably not. What exactly is Vi's opinion on a Zaunite uprising against topside? Does she no longer think it's the right way to go about things?

What does she think happened to Ekko? The last time she saw him, he was fighting Jinx to the death. He could be dead for all she knows. And she doesn't even think about or mention him once. Seems like she doesn't give a shit about Little Man lol. Did the writers forget they are childhood friends?

What eventually drives her to join the enforcers? Could it be concern for her sister, that she somehow thinks the badge would allow her more say in advocating for lesser sentencing? Could it be ideology, that she genuinely believes stricter policing of the Undercity is the way to prevent more Silcos? Lol nope! She's convinced by some rando giving her an ego boost about how Kewl and Badazz she was attacking the factory of child labourers. (A+ manipulation by Caitlyn by the way. What a wholesome and healthy romance Caitvi is turning out to be!)

What causes the rift between Vi and Caitlyn? Could it be Vi's love for Jinx, because as much she tries to convince herself her sister is dead and that Jinx is a different person, deep down she knows that Jinx is still her sister and for all Vi's bluster and rage, she can't bear to see Jinx actually die when push comes to shove? Lol nope!!! She's actually totally okay with a fucking enforcer killing her fucking sister, the exact thing that orphaned them both. Vi only draws the line when a random kid intervenes, after which Caitlyn proceeds to domestically abuse Vi and leave her crying on the floor without looking back.

There is so much detail and nuance missing. This is why almost every scene and conversation feels so empty. Every conversation is comically rushed and not allowed to breathe. The characters' superficial personality traits are there for the most part, but their underlying motivations, feelings, opinions, and desires are completely neglected to fulfill whatever the plot demands them to do.

[flaptopfuture]

Important takeaway from the rest of that page is that family matters existed in bills dimension. what does this imply

[makiswirl]

can i just say. and this is probably a niche hill to die on. that i am so gobsmacked every time someone vaguely hints at the idea that jotaro doesn't care meaningfully for the other crusaders, usually particularly kakyoin and joseph, when those two actually tend to be the ones he reacts to being hurt the hardest

like he cares for his loved ones!!!! that literally plays into his character motives in every single part he shows up in!!! stop lying to me!!!!!!!

[daisybell-on-a-carousel]

Still very wild to me when people try to gotcha Jason with the whole "if you can kill other people for being evil why can't they kill you" when jason is like. One of the most passively suicidal characters I've ever seen. What if man

[n4rval]

the way his words are so carefully curated, not only for the sake of precision, but so it fits a rhythm that is breathable for a slow speaker.

to say exactly what he means in a short sentence, with recurring pauses and a clear pronounciation. to prefer periods(.) over commas(,).

not to be needlessly verbose – much the opposite; because this vocabulary serves the purpose of clarity, organization and to hold the attention of the listener.

[nutklcker]

I'm thinking about Curly and the fact the fandom is kinda slowly turning on him and starting to,,, blame him? More than Jimmy? And I've just been thinking about that

Like the takeaway from the game that Curly did not do the right thing and was not good at taking care of the crew is DEFINITELY an important, if not the most important, takeaway. Being constantly aware of toxic masculinity causing the bystander effect in others who feel like they have to cover for the toxic ppl is VERY IMPORTANT and I don't want to confuse people into going "Curly did nothing wrong!" "He's just a victim too it's not his fault!" "He didn't need to be responsible for Jimmy's actions!" Cuz that's just dangerous

But I do wanna dive into the fact that I think his actions (lackthereof) aren't just due to toxic masculinity and that feeling many cis men have where they have to cover for other toxic men and try to downplay all negative situations. Maybe it's just that I relate too much to Curly but it really seems to me that, after Anya, he's the most abused by Jimmy.

Like, I rewatched the Curly's Birthday Party scene where Jimmy not only berates him BRUTALLY but does so IN FRONT OF EVERYONE ELSE (/nm) AND Curly doesn't stand up for himself after the first few attempts, which will come back later. Jimmy verbally abuses him so comfortably (seen via 1.him doing it in front of everyone else 2.the fact he got Curly to shut up really fast and 3.the fact nobody stepped in to help Curly/stop Jimmy (which in Anya's case is so fair she was like having a panic attack but I was really expecting Swansea to say something or Daisuke to try and defuse)) really makes it seem like that's a common occurrence. The fact that the crew is used to it just feels like not only has he done that before but he does it frequently enough that even Daisuke, the last minute new hire, is used to it

Like when I first saw that scene my first thought was oh shit Jimmy really does abuse EVERYONE indiscriminately. But it kinda seems like the fandom forgot how quick and comfortable he was verbally abusing Curly On His Birthday Celebration, In Front Of Everyone.

And then, what I said earlier about Curly trying to fight back a little at first before giving up and just taking the beratement 100% applies to the scene where Jimmy beats Curly after giving him his pills. The same thing happens there, Curly screams out at first but eventually stops and just whimpers/cries while Jimmy beats him until he's done, at which point Curly starts full-on crying.

And again, this doesn't absolve him of the fact he didn't help Anya. Not one fucking bit. Like, as much as it's played for irony in game it was, to a pretty big extent, his responsibility as captain to make sure that his crew could coexist. And he SHOULD have done more to stop Jimmy. I'm not saying he's innocent, I'm saying that the assumption that he was a bystander to Jimmy's actions simply due to toxic masculinity influencing men to cover for one another is a little inaccurate. It's definitely the more important takeaway because being conscious of the dangers around you is important. It's just that seeing the specific ways he was abused by Jimmy and how he reacted to it makes me feel like it was less of a toxic masculinity thing and more of a Fawn response thing, because he DEFINITELY was a victim of Jimmy's abuse too. And I feel like that's a little important, both to show how men can abuse and manipulate one another and to show how abuse in general can make more than the abuser a danger to others (in the sense of people who are abused are less likely to speak out when they see other abuse, because they're used to it (speaking from experience, not being an asshole)). But I really don't want this leading people to baby Curly and excuse him from not sticking up for Anya more, cuz it's not an excuse, it's an explanation, a further development. He is still at fault for not doing more, but I this the reason he didn't do more isn't a toxic masculinity thing but an abuse victim thing

(Also it's interesting to see how Jimmy doesn't fuck with Swansea very much. I assume it's because he knows he can't topple Swansea, yet he's already toppled Curly and Anya so they're the easiest victims of his abuses. He knows Swansea would fight back, but he already has Curly wrapped around his little finger and Anya severely traumatized so he just focuses on them instead. Also this is in reference to the fact he doesn't try to go around Swansea and get into the Util/Cryopod room until he thinks Anya's hurt Curly. It's like he's afraid of Swansea, which he should be <3)

[hypervoxel]

Oh, so, like, the entire first season's establishment of the characters and their interactions don't actually matter in Helluva Boss. Okay, cool.

Like, I get that characterization develops over time and the writers come up with new ideas and places they want to take the story, but. So much of the Stolas/Blitzø stuff recently isn't character development: it's retconning.

[mrbluesummers-moved]

I'm too tired to write the full Essay™, but someone said in the tags that Stampede took away Knives' fear and it made me realize that the core issue I have with Trigun Stampede is the fact that the characters lack the emotional depth of Trigun Maximum. Like, I'm enjoying Stampede, and it's emotional, but Knives and Vash especially have had their emotional complexity watered down in comparison to the manga.

In the manga, they were as much at war with themselves as they were with each other and world around them. Knives was expressive, animated, and always playing up the megalomaniac god complex in public, but in private he was exhausted and scared and even expressed guilt towards his sisters for being careless in how he orchestrated the fall. Vash was an upbeat pacifist who was constantly fighting his own urge to take the "easy" way out and kill to solve problems.

It's what made the manga so heartbreaking. Neither of them were entirely right, but neither of them were entirely wrong. Knives shouldn't try a genocide, but he was also a deeply traumatized child who was shown how cruel humans could be to plants. Vash should try to do as much good in the world as he can, but holding onto the ideals of pacifism in a hostile environment does more harm than good and he learns that when he's finally pushed to the point where he has to choose between killing and saving someone important to him.

I don't think it's impossible for Stampede to recover in Season 2, but the foundations aren't great. Changing Nai to being cold as child seems like such a small change, but Knives starting out as the optimist who loved humanity is so central to that internal conflict... I don't know. Maybe they'll come back to the point of Rem being important to Knives and make use of the fact that he intended for her to survive and that might save it. We'll have to see.

[rmbunnie]

Red Hood Characterization

This is really long so I'm putting a cut here, I've been thinking about Jason Todd's character motivations and the question of whether or not his actions are based in a Moral Code (I don't think so, not to say he's without any morality) and I talk about that in more depth here.

I saw someone say on here that Titans: Beast World: Gotham City was some of the best Jason Todd internal writing they'd seen in a while, and I've been a Red Hood fan for 8 years or so now? pretty much since I read comics for the first time, so I went and checked out and I thought it was good! The way the person I saw talking about it as if it was rare and unusual made me wonder though, because as well-written as i thought his stances on crime were, there wasn't really anything in it that went against the way I conceptualize Jason?

This kinda plays into a larger question I've been thinking about for a while with Jason though, which is that, do people think that the killing is part of a fundamental worldview that motivates him a la batman, and that worldview is the reason he does the things he does?? Because 8 years ago i was a middle schooler engaging with fiction on the level that a middle schooler does, so I simply did not put much thought into it beyond "poor guy :(" but ever since I actually started trying to understand consistent characterization, I don't really see Jason as someone who's motivated by a moral code in his actions the way batman or superman is!

tbh my personal read is that he's a very socially-motivated guy, his actions from resurrection to his Joker-Batman ultimatum in utrh always seemed to me like every choice made leading up to his identity reveal was either a. to give him the leverage and skill necessary to pull off his identity reveal successfully, or b. to twist the knife that little bit more when he does let Bruce find out who he is. Like iirc there's a Judd Winick tweet like "yeah tldr he chose Red Hood as his identity because it's the lowest blow he could think of." And I think that's awesome, I think character motivations rooted so deeply in character's relationships and emotions are really fun to read! I also think it's where the stagnation/flatness of his character comes from in certain comics, because if his main motivation is one event in one relationship that passes, and he is not particularly attached to anything in his life or the world by the time that comes to pass, it's a little harder to come up with a direction to go with the character after that, because there isn't much of a direction that aligns with something the character would reasonably want? But I do think solving this by saying "all of the morally-off emotionally driven cruelty he did on his way to spite Batman was actually reflective of his own version of Batman's stance that's exactly the same except he thinks it's GOOD to kill people" isn't ideal. To be fully honest, it seems to me like he never particularly cared one way or the other about killing people to "clean Gotham of crime," he just did everything he could to get the power necessary to pull off his personal plans, and took out any particularly heinous people he encountered along the way (like in Lost Days.) Not to say I think the fact he killed people keeps him up at night anymore than everything else in his life events, I just never really thought he was out there wholeheartedly kneecapping some dude selling weed or random guy robbing a tv store for justice.

Looping wayyy back to my question, Is this (^) contradictory to the way he's written/the overall average perception of the character? Because like I enjoyed his writing in Beast World i have zero significant issue with anything there, I just didn't believe it would be a hot take, like yeah, that is Jason. It's been a while since I've read utrh and lost days, but I don't think my takeaway directly contradicts either of those too bad iirc. Idk all this to say I think Jason killing and being alright with killing is an obvious and objective fact, but i guess i've always seen it as more of a practical tactic than a moral belief, and I think taking the actions made during the lowest points of a character's life where he is obsessively focused on this ONEEEE thing and trying to apply it as a Motivating Stance to everything he's done after that, doesn't really follow logically for me.

[trans-leek-cookie]

listen I'm not gonna be a Curly apologist he did Fucked Up as captain but I genuinely recommend ppl watch a playthru that goes thru the game in chronological order. It kinda helps clear up the events and gaps between them, bc even tho u See the times, you still experience it out of order.

The stuff Anya says definitely sets off alarm bells but it doesn't seem like he Fully Understands what she means, and I'm going to be 100% honest I think she was trying to repress it herself. This isn't to say that she is AT ALL "at fault" for what happened after and she should've gotten help even if she wasn't ready to fully discuss the issue but I genuinely think she herself was still coming to terms with things, so she didn't necessarily process the full impact before talking to Curly, and a lot of what happens occurs after they're laid off- like this delves into personal interpretation but I genuinely think Anya only registered Jimmy as a serious danger after his outburst towards Curly. Ofc my interpretation is limited bc of the limited pov in game and not having gone through what she has, but it personally reads more akin to coercion over time than a singular Obviously Violent incident (like. Not to say that Sexual Assault isnt violent in nature, just that coercion often specifically works to obfuscate the fact it is a form of violence.) The layoff is a Massive catalyst for her bc of Jimmy, in that she now has a very clear understanding of his capacity for aggression.

To extrapolate a little from the "Dead Pixel" conversation, she starts by saying she Likes The Screen (even though it's fake). While Curly has his quotes about the pixel "not ruining the illusion" which. Y'know is Symbolic Of His Flaws. She doesn't say the pixel ruins it, just that she can't get it out of her mind.

If we take the pixel to represent her Or jimmy, either way the way she talks about it kind of downplays things, like it's a Minor Thing that's Slightly Upsetting, but she's still okay with the big picture. Idk I could be 100% wrong but that is my take

Besides that, Anya tells curly she's pregnant 2 days before the crash, and it isn't until she outright states it that he starts Putting The Pieces Together. I want to note, he says "I'd do anything" and "this doesn't have to go on our performance evals" 1. Before he knows shes pregnant 2. Under the assumption she might attempt suicide, and I doubt he even thought about her using the gun on anyone else before she brings that up. He says literally before the line where she tells him she's pregnant that "being laid off isnt a reason to hurt [herself]". Like I've seen ppl talk about the performance evaluation thing like it's about her and jimmy, but I think he's referring to (his belief) that she might attempt suicide or similar which might genuinely be a consistent thing he's seen her struggle with, given she's able to go through with it. Also just to note: assuming their society is like ours (hellish) reassuring her he won't blab Abt her mental health is like. Genuine reassurance- lots of mentally ill ppl will Not Open Up bc it could have long term consequences (like. For example. On employment) ANYWAYS I hope it doesn't come off like "Curly never failed Anya" but rather "Curly approached this specific situation without the context of why Anya is panicking and (possibly validly) assuming she's dealing with a very different issue"

Also let me say again the time frame is 2 days. We don't Really see what happens, but we know Anya tells Jimmy without Curly knowing. I genuinely believe he maybe didn't do a Great Job in those two days (the fact he says Anya should've talked to Him before telling Jimmy is uhhh. Mm. 1. Your job to create an environment where she comes to you my man 2. Weird to tell her what she should do with HER OWN PERSONAL INFORMATION) but like.

I get a lot of ppl want immediate consequences but consider that they can't really get rid of Jimmy (co pilot. Which is. Y'know it's Own Problems) but also like. Curly knows Jimmy, and we know that Jimmy tends to lash out. Curly should probably Not Confront Jimmy Unless He Knows Exactly How To Keep Him From Hurting Anya. Like I'm not an expert but this is something genuinely important- when confronting an abuser you NEED to take into account the impact it can have on their victim, and sometimes for the victims safety you need to wait until you have a Solid Plan. It sucks but it's important.

And theres discussion to be had about Curly kinda going along with Jimmy saying "well what if we all died" and like. I do believe he Didn't Realize What Jimmy Said. Like he was just processing/trying to keep the situation under control (and failing because he underestimated how willing Jimmy was to hurt everyone including himself).

Like he's definitely an enabler but I would say his problems are mostly before he understands the gravity of the situation, in that he's friends with Jimmy and assumes the best of a man with abusive tendencies, and fails to create an environment that can keep Anya and the others safe. Like, he definitely doesn't handle in game events perfectly (psych evaluation for one- he does do it instead of Anya which is actually helpful, but he still treats it like. Weirdly.)

Idk I have a lot of thoughts about this game and I don't necessarily want to defend Curly but more like. Anya's situation is very delicate (and light on details) so sometimes the way ppl talk Abt it feels like they aren't actually focused on what she wants and what it means to prioritize her safety y'know?

Edit bc I just now figured out kinda how I want to word it: curly is an enabler and making things worse bc he doesn't put a stop to Jimmy's BS, but in the specific scenario we see in game I think he's trying to use his Skillset of like, people pleasing not for Jimmy's sake but for the crews (like "if I nod my head and say I sympathize he won't lash out and hurt them") which like. There are situations which that is unfortunately the safest option (on an individual level yes, but sometimes it's also necessary to prevent abusers lashing out in response toward ppl who are more vulnerable) but it was the Wrong Choice.

It's like. I think Curly was trying and had good intentions, and understood that he needed to protect the crew, but he didn't have the toolset/experience to realize he can't Just go along with things and that he needs to be able to set hard limits, even for ppl he likes and trusts. Like he failed but the failure was "for want of a nail", where it began way before what we see (for want of an understanding of power dynamics I guess.) Again, don't think this makes curly more forgivable or whatever, I just think he's a good example of trying to make the right choices when you never realized you'd have to make these kinds of decisions and therefore are unprepared and/or unaware

Second edit: personally I don't think you can really incapacitate jimmy without there being serious risk (again he's the copilot) but curly should've given Anya the gun when she told him Abt the pregnancy

[wickmitz]

How do you think about Frepper? I'm neutral about this ship, but the fans Frepper attitude towards confuses me, Ivy and Freckle have only been dating for a week and know each other superficially, but everyone already thinks that by the end of the comic they will get married, I think differently, I think that in the end they will break up with each other because they are too different personalities, I literally can't imagine that both of them will be happy with each other in marriage, Ivy is assertive and active, on the other hand Freckle is passive and just agrees with Ivy, this is not a guarantee of a healthy relationship where a partner completely dominates the other, plus to all that, I will not forget how their relationship started, Ivy just decided that they were dating, and without asking Freckle's permission, she just KISSED him, again without his permission, Frepper fans think that it's cute, but when I saw it, I thought "what the hell did I just see?", in general, it's strange for me that Frepper fans are okay with such things, of course later Freckle shows attraction to Ivy, showing that he likes her in some way too, but I still won't forget how their relationship started and how Freckle used to try to escape from Ivy when she squeezed his hand tightly and forced him to her …

I'm not against Frepper, but I don't understand his fans who don't see these issues and who treat other points of view on their relationship (like mine) as … um, as nonconformity? Fans from reddit are just obsessed with Frepper, I don't know about other networks but that's how it is on reddit, I think there are people who have my opinion but are afraid to say it because of fans, of course, I met Frepper fans there who normally accept such an opinion, but still there is a feeling that such a opinion cannot be told

Simply put, Ivy and Freckle are a couple that will eventually break up with each other unless there's an event between them in the comic that changes my opinion of this couple, but that's how I feel about Freckle for now. I didn't plan to express my opinion, but it happened that way, I hope you don't mind it

first and foremost, i don’t mind seeing someone express their opinion in my inbox! you and anyone else are free to do so, even if i may disagree. this blog’s entire existence was made for me to share my opinions ( and love! ) for lackadaisy, as well as engaging with other fans, because what else is the point of a fandom blog? and as far as i’m aware, this is unpopular opinion central! most of my thoughts aren’t exactly the ones with the most voice behind them i’ve found, so i welcome all manner of different views. every fan is entitled to their own perspectives and opinions, and should be allowed to share them as they please! but with that disclaimer out of the way, i’m more than willing to discuss frepper in its entirety.

for me, there’s little confusion i carry where it concerns this ship’s popularity amongst the fandom. freckle and ivy, if we are to strip them down to their bare essentials, are a rather stereotypically ‘cute’ relationship : people enjoy opposites ( see zibwick or vikdecai for example ) and there’s an endearing quality found in puppy love dynamics. seeing ivy wear the pants and drag a shy freckle around by his ankle makes for quality content in a way! think the ‘excuse me, but he asked for no pickles!’ meme … ivy and freckle very much fit that sort of mold, and it helps that most fans are too scared to ship them with other characters in the cast too, due to what they perceive to be a lack of options. thus, frepper is an extremely ‘safe’ ship! you cannot get in trouble for enjoying something that is not only canon, but is relatively adorable ; and so i don’t believe a lot of the fans are actually thinking too deeply about the likely endgame of it all. most don’t! it’s fun to ship, and that’s all they really need i think. it’s also very easy to dismiss ivy’s forwardness as a quirk of being a young girl who’s of her temperament, recklessly boycrazy although still carrying sweet intent. this behavior is easier to hand wave when neither ivy or freckle are experienced at the dating scene as well … freckle due to his extremely religious upbringing and hermit nature, and ivy because of viktor’s constant meddling, which would hold her back more than you’d think. with that said, i don’t think any of this is excessively complicated. some shippers are rather simple minded and do not care for details and characterization all too deeply. enjoying dynamics is, at its core, supposed to be fun -- which makes simple ships like frepper prime targets for a very vocal and tight knit fanbase. there are other things i could speculate about why these two may hit so pleasantly for others, like how there’s an underlying queer theme to it ( what with ivy being the pursuer and freckle the shy, blushing flower ) or that it’s tropey enough to hit the right spots for others … though it all boils back to mere speculation. perhaps they still have time to escape this gangster lifestyle and live happily ever after? and that appeals to the lackadaisy fans who still want some sort of happy ending? it’s all a combination of frepper being easy, i think, and containing two young cats who still haven’t done anything particularly ‘unforgivable’ yet action wise. this is a ship you can root for without an ounce of worry in your heart, and so on and so forth.

but although i understand why others are so vocal about them, i don’t exactly agree with fanon’s views either! while i heavily enjoy frepper, i enjoy them as they are, and that includes their looming flaws and inevitable tragedy. they are bound to break each other’s hearts a lot on their current path ; even if they were entirely perfect for one another, this lifestyle isn’t kind to anyone, meaning if they don’t separate, they could always be forced apart via bullets and such anyway. they are young and woefully inexperienced in a manner of things, the last thing they need is the stress of a rumrunner life driving their every action, you know? i know people see them getting out together, and that is likely on the table! i do see that in many ways, but i’m also of the opinion that ivy and freckle will diverge onto different paths at some point and temporarily call it quits. from where the comic currently stands and given my view on ivy’s arc, i see her growing disillusioned with where she is and the honor and fun she saw within it as a royal spectator will fade ; she will become wary, fearful, and her resilience will die … meanwhile freckle will embrace it, similar to his cousin, fully understanding what it is and what he’s getting into ( like rocky, again ) but being unable to leave his refuge. i know lots of people think freckle will leave the lackadaisy first, but given his old concepts and former title as one of mitzi’s ‘trouble boys’, i think he will become lost in the sauce for a myriad of reasons. frankly i enjoy that twist on their relationship! since i believe ivy’s character development will revolve around maturing, changing as time stretches forward, because her character is ever growing, what with her entire schtick being the fact she’s everything a 1920s girl was during those times. she embodies that unladylike youth and manipulative sweetness, so i’d imagine a lot of her path is falling from such naive thrill seeking and stumbling upon a harsh reality. she will mature, and the very thing that should make their relationship stronger will be what divides them indefinitely. everything they have is founded on this bloody, varnished soaked ground after all … they are young adults who are experiencing what closeness feels like outside of family or platonic friends for the first time, so naturally they will overindulge in their own amateur games ; find respite in the boogie and kiss like couples do on the silver screen, laugh about it, talk about everything and nothing at all … relish in each other’s warmth and stupidly loyal protection. i’m sure frepper will grow closer before any falling out, because as it stands, it’s one of the few things they have in such a scary situation that feels comforting and kind. they will impact each other in the fundamental ways first relationships do and, to move towards your biggest gripe, do things they’ll regret or allow things to happen to them that they’re not entirely okay with.

ivy is very forceful with freckle initially, albeit in her typical saturated way ; and i can see why that would be hard to parse! especially when freckle spends a majority of their first scenes together squirming away and hiding, trying to duck her affections and bolt for it. there is a lot of boundary crossing between them! but not in a necessarily malicious way … like most things with frepper, this circles back to their mutual inexperience and how, in a lot of ways, this is their first ‘serious’ romantic relationship ever. and it’s rather common for such firsts to involve gray areas, since neither party is entirely sure of what their own boundaries are just yet! while freckle did appear frightened by ivy at first, it’s important to note that tracy’s mentioned him having a flight response whenever girls flirt with him … he is prone to run away instinctively, which if you consider his extremely religious upbringing, isn’t exactly a surprise. nina would no doubt look down upon freckle engaging with girls his age due to what most girls his age are currently doing in the roaring 20s they’re living in. sneaking out and engaging in illegal activities, dancing in a way that would disgust most of the more traditional and older generation, casually engaging in any manner of sexual activity before marriage, etc etc. and this isn’t even listing freckle’s cagey nature due to an incident we know was bad enough to send rocky packing for years, and fundamentally changed freckle himself at such a young and impressionable age. he is … very troubled! and rather scared of himself and the world around him … at this stage in life, freckle is perpetually unable to make any progress towards anything he may want, and so i have little problem myself with ivy mostly taking the lead. when left to his own devices and allowed to choose outside of influence, freckle did in fact sneak out of his mother’s house to go to the lackadaisy, surely well aware that ivy’s intention had been romantically inclined. so, to me, he has always liked her ; perhaps found her cute, in a shallow way, saw her eccentric behavior as endearing and frightening in equal measure, and while he’s still wading into this whirlwind pool unsteady and shaken, he -- wouldn’t mind it if ivy pushed a little more, or moved him around to her ( and what she perceives to be, their ) liking. perhaps this dynamic is familiar enough to him that it becomes comforting, since rocky was very much the same way in their adolescence. tugging freckle around and pulling his tail for whatever rocky wanted them to do, with little care for whatever his baby cousin desired at the time, ignoring his protests and chasing him ; nobody’s at fault here either, kids are extremely self absorbed and this is a flaw they’ll usually mature past, and while ivy and freckle are adults during the comic, i don’t think ivy’s outgrown this linear view on things just yet. she is extremely entitled! she is used to being the apple of everyone’s eye at the speakeasy due to her jazz baby status as atlas may’s goddaughter, and this gangster connection excites and awes the ladies she attends classes with at her university too. ivy pepper is used to getting her way and this has only fueled her determined attitude, her ‘pull it up by the bootstraps’ mindset, and in many ways, this is something of a flaw for her. it’s not bad to be confident and headstrong, although when you add that into a dangerous mix of rumrunning and gunslinging, it may become a problem rather quickly. but i digress! point is, ivy and freckle are hardly at fault for the awkward way they handled the start of their relationship, when it’s so new and fresh to them both.

neither of them have boundaries at this moment, as they either have no clue what those are or simply haven’t realized they should set them. so, in turn, there are things that the other may do that could cause their partner discomfort … and it’s mostly done out of obliviousness and good intentions and your classic dose of intense affection. doesn’t mean it isn’t messed up to a degree, but i think it’s rather realistic, and is a hard truth that comes with many first relationships of that sort. sometimes you don’t know how to say ‘no,’ or you agree and regret agreeing later, or perhaps you simply don’t understand there’s certain things you aren’t ready for or genuinely just don’t like. again, it’s a very muddied area, and the two of them are vaguely navigating what is mostly foreign to them. they’re bound to mess up! so i ivy some slack here, and applaud tracy on the realistic writing more than anything usually. young love also happens to be a great device to use for inexperienced characters finding themselves, through the good and bad of their relationship, and frepper is all about that. maybe freckle will inevitably bring up how he feels like he would’ve preferred it had ivy asked him out properly, or gave him time to court her in a traditional fashion … and she will be surprised ( and a little wounded ) by this, since she had never considered it before … too used to her way of things to realize there’s another path they could take. i think this aspect of the relationship is important, and i can understand wishing that more frepper shippers would view it as such, or comment on it's morally gray nature without just calling it ‘cute’ and leaving it at that.

tldr : they will most certainly break up at some point, maybe even multiple times! tracy has said before that they both have some serious maturing to do if their relationship is to be long lasting, and i doubt that maturing will happen to them both at once … since they have different things to work on emotionally. but they will probably strongarm some major personal development within each other, as well as love one another with a fierceless abandon that most kids do. i could see them getting married, i could see them not, but i agree that if they were to be wed happily, they’d have significant hurdles to overcome. but personally, frepper is something i adore mostly due to the impact they’re bound to cause each other, and even if they are to separate and find someone new and more fitting, they’ll always remember one another -- perhaps fondly, and sadly, and with some anger. a time they’d like to forget, but a person they’d like to remember … which is my cup of tea overall! they much more interest me as they presently are anyway, where i can fiddle around with their budding romance and friendship bonding. and as lackadaisy grows in popularity, i do hope there’s more frepper fans who see their complexity and flaws and explore them with all of it in mind.

anyway! i hope this was coherent, and that it was obvious that i agreed with you for the most part. i haven’t really talked about frepper before with anyone so many of these thoughts sort of burst out of me! and i feel like i have more to elaborate upon, but for the sake of simplicity i kept this short. oh well! surely this is enjoyable and informative regardless.

[sweetaccountant]

Hmm… i am imagining a world where the internet takes ed nashton more seriously :(

I think it can be fun to be silly with him in art most of the time but i hate how watered down he is!! I want to see more of the real him too, more “canon” i suppose. Since that real version of him was why i was so drawn to him in le first place

_:(´ཀ`」 ∠):

[tvckerwash]

wash tormenting the reds in the most petty ways possible because he's still pissed off about them hitting him with a car and then blowing him up in s8 is so important to me you don't even understand

[patronsaintofdemons]

i want to write a Monty fanfiction. i need to get my Monty thoughts in order. i sit down to put them on a page. i go off on a tangent about Esther. i go off on a tangent about Esther. i go off on a tangent about Esther. i go off on a tan-