#iron bull critical

[dragonageconfessions]

CONFESSION:

I know it won't happen but I would love it if Krem was a returning companion in Dragon Age Dreadwolf.  They could easily have Krem mention that Bull was killed and the Chargers disbanded.  Krem mentions he needs a purpose as well having some unfinished business in Tevinter.  And he can be romanced. Krem deserves his chance to shine as a companion.

[chaifootsteps]

Regarding your ask about ships you hate, you mentioned Iron Bull/Dorian. Been a while since I've played DA:I so I don't remember much from it. Was there anything objectionable about the ship or is it more something that just wasn't your cup of tea?

Iron Bull/Dorian, like Stolitz, is one of those ships that will sucker you in with the fandom's interpretation of it. Iron Bull's actually pretty awful to Dorian, sexually harassing him at every turn and finally sleeping with him while Dorian, an alcoholic, is implied to be drunk. Even after they get together, Dorian never, ever seems happy about it and pleads with Bull not to bring up their sex life in public, which Bull ignores. Bull will sneer at the idea of love ("Love is all starlight and gentle blushes. Passion leaves your fingers sore from clawing the sheets," but if you know anything about Dorian, you know that he's heartbreakingly ravenous for a loving relationship based on more than just sex.

Unrelated to anything, Bull's also super transphobic but that's another topic for another time.

Most of the fandom justifications for this are pretty awful. A common one is that Dorian is closeted or just prejudiced against Qunari, but if Dorian's dating the Inquisitor -- even a Qunari Inquisitor -- his behavior is night and day. He's happy, other characters commenting on how much he's been smiling, and yes, joking openly about his sex life.

The fandom makes Bull out to be this respectful, careful Dom, but he picks your safeword for you and will continue to make passes at Dorian even if Dorian's dating the Inquisitor. Another big one that always gets missed (people don't usually pick it on the dialogue tree) is that if your Inquisitor romances Bull and asks if they can take a turn on top sometimes, he'll mock them and then refuse, not because it's not his thing, but because "this is what you need."

[mw567152]

i still hate Iron Bull

[simpforsolas]

So I've seen a some discussion of people both criticizing and defending the DATV companions for being nice to each other. And I think the arguments from both sides are being a little bit misconstrued, which is honestly understandable. I think that often when something bothers us in fiction, it's hard to put into words exactly what it is. So as we try our best to express ourselves, it may not end up getting to the point of what the issue actually is (this is also why it can be tough for writers to properly address criticism - the readers providing the criticism might not be accurately diagnosing the root of the problem, so their attempts to fix it are shallow and don't actually address the issue).

Now I obviously don't speak for everyone, but I do think that a good amount of the people saying they want the DATV crew to be meaner don't actually mean they literally just want people to be rude and insulting each other for no reason. I think it boils down to three things that the new crew was missing:

Inability to really feel how the companion's backstories form their unique worldview

Lack of conflict between companions

Limited relationship dynamics between Rook and the companions

Inability to feel how companion's backstories form their worldview

In previous Dragon Age games, the characters frequently discussed and argued topics of philosophy, faith, politics, and beliefs. They came from all different backgrounds. You had Morrigan, a hedge mage raised to believe in self-preservation, teaming up with an Andrastian circle mage and former templar. Their beliefs and worldviews are, at their core, at odds with each other. The game doesn't necessarily try to make you believe one way or another, it simply drops you into the world and allows you to interact with these character, see their interactions with each other, and draw your own conclusions. In Dragon Age Inquistion, you have Cole, a spirit of compassion, teaming up with Vivienne, who believes the circle teachings that spirits are demons and want to possess people, and Sera, who represents the perspective of the common people that are afraid of all things magical or fade-related. You have Solas, a staunch individualist who believes in freedom for all, Cassandra, a faithful Andrastian who follows her own inner compass even when at odds with the institution of the Chantry, and Iron Bull, a Ben-Hassrath agent who believes in the Qun not because he's a philosopher and has decided that's what works best, but because that's how he was raised and so far, the Qun has worked for him. So in previous Dragon Age titles, you have people whose worldviews and beliefs are fundamentally at odds with each other, and whose actions and dialogues are a direct result of those beliefs. Veilguard really downplayed the importance of religion in Thedas, which isn't necessarily a problem in and of itself. In DA2, the only companion with strong religious beliefs is Sebastian. However, you had Anders who believed strongly in mage liberation, Fenris, who believed strongly in the dangers of magic, and Isabela, whose lack of belief and lack of respect for religion/beliefs led to one of the game's biggest conflicts. Discussion of religion and philosophy was always a huge part of the Dragon Age games, so when they almost entirely removed that element and didn't replace it with other types of belief that could lead to meaningful differences of opinion, we were just left with nothing of substance to really talk about. This isn't saying that the companions don't have things they believe in, but it's just not the same as characters from previous games. In general, their backgrounds don't form a unique worldview that results in differences of opinions and interesting conflict. Which brings my to my next point:

Lack of conflict between companions

There's a huge spectrum between "everyone is friends and always gets along" and "everyone hates each other and is happy when their ally is sold into slavery." In fact, fans often get really into fictional relationships that have quite a bit of conflict. Speaking for myself, I love relationships where two people may fight or disagree, but they truly care for one another and would willingly put themselves in harm's way to protect one another. So I think when a lot of people say the companions get along too well, they don't necessarily mean that they want them to all hate each other (maybe some do). They mean that they just want there to be interesting interpersonal conflicts. (I personally would love for a companion pair to argue a lot, but when it comes down to it, they actually really care about each other) Why do we want this? Well first, conflict just makes things more interesting. But I think that it also ties into point 1. In this game, the companions simply don't seem passionate enough about what they believe to argue for it, or, if they are, there's not anyone who challenges their beliefs and forces them to defend their position. I would say that Emmrich is very passionate about his love for spirits and necromancy, two things which are seen as weird and dangerous by most people in Thedas. However, there's almost no chance for him to passionately argue for his worldview because no one challenges it. There is that one scene with Taash finding his passion for working with the dead creepy, but as soon as the issue comes up, it's resolved. Compare that to Solas, where a big part of his characterization is love for spirits and frustration with fear and ignorance leading people to discriminate against what they don't understand. Having to face opposition to his beliefs, both in the world and within the inquisitor's inner circle (and sometimes the inquisitor themself), gives the writers the opportunities to emphasize core parts of his characterization.

On a final note for this section, it's just more interesting when different pairs of companions have unique relationships with each other. Solas and Cole's wholesome, mostly conflict-free friendship is made sweeter because you can compare it to Solas and Sera's relationship. It makes the relationships more meaningful when you can contrast it to how those same people click or don't click with other companions.

Limited relationship dynamics with Rook

The final issue I want to talk about is how all this ties into Rook. In previous games, you could learn a lot about a character's beliefs by seeing what they approved and didn't approve of. Anders approves of supporting mages, Fenris doesn't. Leliana approves of compassion for strangers, Morrigan doesn't because why should she help people who can't help themselves, and also it's a waste of time. Cole greatly approves of helping people, Solas slightly approves of you asking questions, Cassandra approves of expressing belief in the Maker, and so forth and so on. Then depending on the choices you make, your approval actually makes a difference in how these companions view you as their leader. But in Veilguard... well either the companions don't have strong feelings about things, or Rook isn't allowed to make decisions that oppose the beliefs they do have. Because of this, there's basically no conflict between Rook and the team. From my understanding, worst relationship you can get with the team is "distant boss whose employees don't invite them to their work parties," but that's not the same as Cassandra hating you so much she gets drunk or getting specific rival scenes like in DA2 where companions react entirely differently because Hawke consistently acted in opposition to their beliefs.

Final thoughts

So when people criticize the companions not getting along, I think it's less to do with the fact that people want them to hate each other, and more to do with the fact that we want companions who have a strong worldview shaped by their backstory, and for that worldview being challenged to lead to interesting conflict. Whether that challenge comes from other companions, the world, or Rook themself, I don't care - I just want interesting and meaningful conflict that is arises because the companions are strong characters who believe in something.

[enigmalea]

Having some Iron Bull feels at 1 am and like...

Blackwall doesn't encourage Bull to see going Tal-Vashoth as a new open door; Cassandra doesn't sympathize with Bull losing his place; Dorian and Bull don't talk about losing the only place you know because you don't fit; Cole doesn't ease Bull's pain by telling him his Tama is glad he got away; and Solas does not tell the Iron Bull that Tal Vashoth are not necessarily mindless by pointing out an Adaar Inquisitor is not mindless; he does not spend days (weeks?) playing chess with Bull to prove to him he was not losing his mind; Bull's friends did not spend all that time and care to show him that being Tal-Vashoth did not mean being a monster...

... only for Bioware to make the entire Antaam, mindless, evil, power hungry Tal-Vashoth.

Depending on how Taash's personal quest goes, the Lords might get some new recruits from the reasonable Antaam members, but this feels so hollow when they've been portrayed so horribly the entire game.

Like... I just have such a hard time imagining a large portion of the Antaam going Tal-Vashoth to begin with, and even if they did, I can't imagine that there wouldn't be some that would have defected from whatever "warlord" they were following relatively quickly. I wish we could have seen it.

Somewhere, in Southern Thedas, the Iron Bull is losing his shit about the Antaam... and Krem is desperately holding him back so he doesn't travel north to try to handle it.

[abyssal-ilk]

getting all of the banter dialogue for dorian and bull so they can be a couple in dai is so... ugh. there is some genuinely wonderful stuff to explore in their dynamic, with iron bull abandoning the qun and dorian leaving tevinter and what it means to have done that and finding themselves as people, but. christ. the fetishization and oversexualization of the qunari in da is fucking hair tearingly painful, and it is at its most obvious with iron bull and dorian. really hoping that something changes for the taash romance, but i am,, kind of doubtful.

[corpocyborg]

so like... the Qun being reveled to be pro-trans in DAI makes zero sense... considering both sten & the arishok are shown to believe strongly in gender roles... and that sten even goes as far as to say that a person can never be anything other than what they're born and that a fisherman who tries to become a merchant will never be a real merchant and will only ever be a fisherman pretending to be a merchant... like... ?????

I mean i get wanting iron bull to be pro-trans himself but wouldn't it make way more sense for that to be something he actually dislikes about the Qun... and then it would actually create tension in his storyline between his own viewpoints & agency and the messages he's learned from the qun and partially actually believes and has partially been forced to believe through literal indoctrination and abuse... and therefore whether he becomes tal-vashoth or not could actually be something that matters instead of just a meaningless pseudo-choice...

[itsabouttimex2]

Monkie Kid Villain Fates

A more in-depth look (especially for Macaque) down below!

(I know I’ve been posting a lot of content that’s outside my usual, and I hope no one minds too much! I’m cleansing my palate to prep for Season Five, which I am very excited to write for. ((Especially for Li Jing and Nuwa!!!)) So here’s a slew of my thoughts on the villains, and which one is my least favorite!)

(Spoilers: his name is written in purple above.)

Disclaimer 1: I am not counting instances of “throwing your lot in with the heroes when the world is at stake” as redeeming moments. If you only do something because it personally benefits you at the moment, it’s not exactly selfless.

Disclaimer 2: Redemption means three things-

1. The character acknowledges their wrongdoings.

2. The character works to become a better person.

3. The character makes amends/reparations for the harm they’ve done, without the threat of death hanging overhead. Good must be done of one’s own will and volition.

Disclaimer 3: A character not being redeemed doesn’t make them a bad character. In fact, some characters work better without redemption. (Like the Lady Bone Demon.) I just wanted to make a villain tier list and talk on some of the people it contained.

Red Son: Decently humanizing interactions with Mei, but ultimately uncaring of all the damage and harm that he’s caused, especially in regards to potential deaths during his attacks on the city. Unfortunately, the first example of “pretty much unrepentant but universally-forgiven”. (Fix: Have him interact with people harmed by his villainy, and resolve to help them- even if only by repairing their destroyed vehicles. Something small enough to be reasonably in line with his pride and arrogance, but enough to show that he’s become a better person.)

——————

Macaque: The worst villain here. Utterly unrepentant and shameless, outwardly cruel and violent… but still got a “you’re not a bad guy” speech before actually showing that he wasn’t a bad guy. Despite being able to skip fights with his shadow portals, he intentionally stuck around to raze the Dragon Palace of the East Sea to the ground. (AO GUANG AND HIS PEOPLE’S STATUS ARE STILL UNKNOWN) This still hasn’t been addressed in canon, not even by Mei, who was related to those who lived there. Instead, she has a team-up with him, never addressing the still unknown fate of her uncle. Never apologizes, never makes amends, never tries to repair the damage he’s done… but allowed to stick around all the same. Where characters like Azure or LBD do what they do because they truly believe in their causes, Macaque is just having fun hurting people. Again, given his ability to shadow-portal, he doesn’t even have the “I’m trying to save my own life” excuse. He could’ve just skipped the torment and violence, but explicitly chose not to, and is always happy to inflict harm- even bragging about what he did to the Dragon Palace.

Also, I don’t give a single shit that Peng “bullied” him. It doesn’t make Macaque more sympathetic, it makes him less. He knows what it’s like to be insulted and berated for your nature, then (unhesitatingly and gleefully) does the same to MK, who may well be a child?

Yeah, no. Then, his “awesome” team-up with Mei only serves to rip agency and nuance from her character, turning this caring and energetic warrior into an amnesiac that doesn’t care about her family for the sake of “Boo-hoo, Peng hit me once to protect someone they care about!” So, Mei holds grudges, right? That would make her a more interesting character! But no! No, no, no! That’s just for Peng! Her grudge isn’t against the man who essentially attempted genocide on her people and razed an ancestral palace full of innocent people to the ground, no!

OF COURSE NOT, SILLY!!

Because then Macaque’s actions would have something called “consequences”, and the writers just won’t allow it! Because he’s just a murderous, violent, manipulative, cruel, spiteful, villain! How dare we expect any actual comeuppance for his crimes? No, we can’t have that!

Oh, and how does he help MK in the fourth season? How about he outright tells (great storytelling, btw) MK about how delusional Azure Lion is- a character with which he has no tie with beyond a tenuous past oath and no actual interactions. This moment could have easily been given to, you know, Wukong! Or Yellowtusk, if they were going the full redemption arc route for him, but no!

We have to pretend that Macaque’s input on a character he has no interactions with is important! Oh, and they let him play mentor to MK, who he has: manipulated, betrayed, violently assaulted, stole the powers of, berated, and attempted to kill.

Does MK care about any of this?

OF COURSE NOT!

But MK is absolutely furious and heartbroken at Azure for doing maybe half of those things, and with an honestly noble reason to boot.

Ugh.

I think it’s only made worse by the fact that people get so mad when there’s any criticism of Macaque “redemption arc”. Throwing actual fits and constantly arguing when someone dares to say “everyone allowing Macaque (and many other villains) to get away with the worst of his actions and not holding him accountable for being a genuinely dangerous, unrepentant and violent criminal is bad and makes the “heroic” characters around him look worse.”

And you can’t use the “well, he didn’t get a redemption arc!” The writers didn’t try to redeem him!” defense.

Because, yes. Yes they did.

We are supposed to think this guy is better now. The series wants you to think of him as redeemed.

MK leaves him handmade food and a drawing. His “you’re not a bad guy” speech is supposed to be taken as truth. Wukong is making amends with him (sharing smiles and offering food) and no one has any personal problems on the guy sticking around (which makes them all seem blander, given that at least one of his victims should be upset), which is portrayed in a positive light.

This is portrayed as good.

THE WRITERS CONSIDER MACAQUE AS DESERVING AND WORTHY OF THIS. THEY THINK HE HAS EARNED IT.

So yes- he is supposed to be “redeemed”.

But he isn’t. He really, really, isn’t.

(Fix: God, where do we start? Some remorse? An apology? Have every character not forgive him immediately? Have Mei not forget about the razing of an ancestral palace? Have Pigsy threaten to kill him if he tries to hurt MK again? Have Tang refuse to interact with him? Anything would have been nice.)

——————

Jin and Yin: No redemption arc at all. Essentially forgotten about by the show. They show up with the Scorpion Queen, but don’t have a satisfying send-off. It’s just a little funny scene. (Potential fix: more interactions with them as stagehands, working for the community. Why make them neutral only to shift immediately back to evil? It could’ve been nice to see them integrate into society instead of being turned evil again and written out of the story with little fanfare.)

——————

Demon Bull King: Same as Red Son, but without the humanizing interactions with a heroic character. Bonus points for putting his life in danger to save Wukong and MK, despite gaining nothing for doing so. Unfortunately, aside from that, another “pretty much unrepentant but universally-forgiven” character. (Potential fix: Would’ve been nice to have more positive interactions between him and Wukong. Maybe talk about how hard it is to open up and be soft when they dedicated so much of their lives to being strong? Chat about his struggles adjusting to the modern era? Have him show clear remorse for mistreating his extremely loyal son?)

——————

Princess Iron Fan: Not much to say. Same as her husband, same solution. Really wish she had gotten some more screen time outside of her family. (Fix: Maybe flesh out her bond with Jin and Yin? I know it was supposed to be a funny “noodle incident”, but learning about their past could’ve been nice- maybe we could’ve gotten a scene of her with little Red Son to humanize her a bit?)

——————

As it says on the tin. I’ll do this all in one quick chunk.

Nothing much to say here- but it would’ve been nice to have one of the spiders survive and redeem themselves, especially since that it was teased for Huntsman.

I wish Goliath (not even his real name btw) hadn’t been such a nothing character. Like, we really don’t learn a single thing about him.

I pity the Ink Curse. Created to be a tool of torture, never allowed to love or be loved. Poor thing.

——————

Mayor: One of Season Four’s biggest flaws is that it could really feel disconnected from the previous three, which all felt very tightly interwoven. Example one: Mei “no longer *wielding* the Samadhi Fire”, when it had previously been established that she fused with it. Example two: The mayor’s fate is never addressed, despite being such a prominent enemy. (Fix: Just… tell us what happened to him. Is he in jail? Did he escape justice? Did someone just… murder him? I don’t care if “it’s being saved for Season Five”. It’s weird to just forget about someone so dangerous in universe.)

——————

Kui Mulang: Presumably either dead or returned to the Celestial Realm for punishment. Unlikely that we’ll receive further information on him.

——————

Peng: Probable that we’ll receive an update on their status in Season Five. Very interesting character with a few humanizing moments (being close to Yellowtusk and Azure, being upset when Monkey King was trapped in the scroll) that keep them from being irredeemable. Actually a better person than Macaque, given that they never remorselessly razed a palace of innocent people to the ground. Or tried to murder an innocent kid who wasn’t involved with their fight at all. Or held a young lady’s life hostage and threatened to murder her. But they’re sort of mean, so I guess people consider them irredeemable? Super weird.

Like, Peng is an asshole, sure. They clearly aren’t in this fight out of the goodness of their heart. But the awful way they get treated in the fandom is insane, especially with the babying treatment that other villainous characters (like Macaque, the Mayor, and Red Son) get.

——————

Azure Lion: Macaque, but better written! Letting MK be angry at a person who: manipulated, lied to, and betrayed him? Not having his misdeeds be forgotten and glossed over? People actually being upset at what he’s done further than a few minutes after he’s done it? Incredible character! This is what I’ve wanted from Monkie Kid for so long! Ultimately, Azure accepts his failures and sacrifices himself- a punishment for hurting innocent people and wreaking havoc? A villain acknowledging their misdeeds and making up for them? God, I love Azure so much!

Probably my favorite character!

——————

Yellowtusk: I love this grandpa so much, for mostly the same reasons as Azure. His crimes aren’t immediately forgotten! Everyone doesn’t immediately forgive him! And he has to head back to the Celestial Realm for actual consequences?! Damn, this is what I’ve wanted from LMK villains for so long! Real redemption arcs, my beloved.

Also, this proves that the writers do know that people who commit crimes should be held accountable and punished for it? Can you give some of that to the others, please?

——————

Scorpion Queen: Another character I don’t have much to say about. She acknowledges her mistakes, ceases her villainy, and seems to have made genuine friends in Jin and Yin. Given the very little harm she caused, redemption was never going to be outside of her reach- but I’m happy for her anyhow.

——————

Finishing Points

1: I do not “hate” any of these characters. Though I definitely dislike how some are written, each one is lovable and enjoyable in their own way. I enjoy writing for all of them, and will continue to do so. I just wanted to take a break from fanfiction and talk about my perspective on some villains.

2: What do I mean by “punishment”?

Essentially, a consequence delivered to the character on account of their villainy. Someone tripping and eating dirt isn’t a “punishment”, unless they’re being shoved down by an old victim. Losing a fight isn’t “punishment”, it’s a matter of self-defense. Additionally, the punishment has to be actively performed as a consequence of misdoings- tripping and breaking an arm after doing evil things isn’t a punishment, but having a victim of the villain actively choose to break their arm is.

3: This is not an attack on you or your “fave”. This is not me saying that the show is bad. This is not me saying that I could do better. This is not me saying that you shouldn’t like these characters. This is not me trying to change your mind. This is not me saying you should feel the way I do. These are just my personal thoughts on the villains listed, and some of the “flaws” that I personally have with their portrayals and depictions.

[agirlking]

The lack of Cole...

[childofthestone]

its not a lie to say that veilguard takes the themes from every previous dragon age game and absolutely butchers them to pieces i dont think

[dragonageconfessions]

CONFESSION:

Had Bull looked more like the Qunari we encounter in the Mark of Assassin, I would have romanced him.  DA2's Qunari were attractive. Bull not so much. Yes I am that shallow.

[soloragoldsun]

Just gotta stop in and talk about The Iron Bull for a sec. Again.

This time, I’d like to focus on how his whole storyline is basically that of someone either being freed from or doubling down on a cult-like religion. Because that’s what the Qun is. Anything that puts certain people on leashes and has “re-educators” that are meant to “fix” people who start thinking differently is a freaking cult!

Bull is shown to be on the fence when it comes to a lot of things. While he insists on being true Qunari and a follower of the Qun, he also shows discomfort when the Qunari offers the alliance with the Inquisition. He flat out says that he’s grown used to them being “over there.” He even acknowledges that the Qun isn’t the right way for everyone.

If you let the Chargers die, he says that the Qun demanded the sacrifice, but you can see cracks in his armor and how much he hates making that decision both during the battle and after Gatt and the Inquisitor secure the alliance at Skyhold. As a result, he doubles down on his devotion to the Qun. The Iron Bull becomes just a role he plays. He becomes Hissrad. How else can he deal with the guilt of leading the people who had become his family to their deaths? He has to believe that it was necessary, and to do that, he has to believe in the Qun unquestioningly.

If Cole is in the party during his betrayal in Trespasser, he comments on how Bull didn’t feel anything when he betrays the party. I’d bet anything that between the end of Inquisition and the beginning of Trespasser, he submitted willingly to the re-educators, masking his emotions and eliminating what was left of The Iron Bull.

On the other hand, if you order the retreat, he doesn’t hesitate to blow that horn. He smiles when he sees his men are safe. When you correct Gatt and say that his name is Iron Bull and not Hissrad, Bull approves. If you say that there’s still something to do to salvage the alliance, he disapproves. Once he’s Tal-Vashoth, he commits almost immediately and acts as if a weight has been lifted.

He smiles while sparring with Krem. He tells you that, whatever he regrets, he’s where he wants to be. Most of his inner conflict comes with the realization that much of what he believed was wrong, that being Tal-Vashoth doesn’t make one a monster. So, what does that make him, someone who has killed many Tal-Vashoth over the years?

No matter what playthrough I do, I will always save the Chargers, both because I love them, and because it’s the best thing for The Iron Bull. One choice allows him to move forward and become his own person. The other forces him to regress into what he once was as a way to avoid his guilt.

[lofi-fairy-tails]

Jumbo

“You’ve got some big ears on you, girl.”

Sera jumped away from the door, only to see Varric leaning against the wall, his whale-sized arms crossed on his chest.

“Like the ‘jumbos’ Bull mentioned. You know, huge, grey-skinned animals with ears the size of blankets? Or so he describes them.”

“Not your business, ain’t it?” Sera cries out and quickly slams her hand on her mouth to keep it quiet.

Varric seems unfazed. “Who are you spying on anyway?”

Her loud giggle fills the hallway. “Inky and Solas are at it again. ‘Elven mating rituals.’ Or so Bull calls them.”

[platoniccereal]

qunari gender system thoughts!!! i read some head canons about this long time ago and it got me thinking.

tw transphobic takes and gender dysphoria mentioned (all under the cut).

i really like the common idea that there could be at least 3 branches of gender identities (according to the system of triumvirate), or that each particular role/job could be perceived a separate gender just like there is a spectrum in our modern understanding.

consequently, would qunari even take something mostly irrelevant to their role performance into consideration? bioware’s writing yes, it would, but realistically speaking, would qunari even have a gender system as in modern understanding? i’m betting on that some sort of gender indentity would appear individually, but that wouldn’t be something they pay much attention to?

i absolutely adore the idea that qunari just decided that their word for warrior/warrior gender equals thedosian word for male gender. that they decided that, not knowing on which features the perception of gender on the continent is based. then it is natural from sten’s point of view to be surprised by women in warden’s party. in this head canon he may be simply linguistically confused (especially since he is presented as someone really curious about languages). “this person would be a ‘warrior’ in my culture, their word for it is a ‘man’, but for some reason this person does not go by a proper title.” it may be as confusing to him as to continue to call a person, who left the role of a baker and became a blacksmith, a baker. (and then we shall ignore whatever bioware writes about qunari’s gender.)

years ago i used to perceive the qunari’s concept of gender as it was implied by bioware. thus, qunari have a set of body features, based on which they assign female or male gender. qunari have certain fields of roles that come with it. hence, under the aqun-athlok tag, from bioware’s world building perspective, there would be people who we would call transgender folks (then there could be, let’s say, a happy coincidence with some trans masc lad being put into antaam, so the aqun-athlok title is assigned correctly). it is what bioware intended to do, to create a qunlat word and concept for trans people. but. then there are also gender non-conforming folks, as we would call them from a modern perspective. these may be not so comfortable with this label. e.g., there is shokrakar:

so it is clear what bioware wanted to show. ‘‘hey, look how awful this society is, they assign you a strict role based on whether you are afab or amab, and some folks are really uncomfortable with it.” of course, the developers can’t just imagine a society that simply didn’t develop a status quo of 2 genders assignment – with a bunch of stereotypes attached.

i cannot say how many times, due to this bullshit, i saw transphobic hot takes on qunari perceiving cassandra/female warden/leliana/morrigan the same way they perceive krem. ‘‘they’re just confused by afab in these roles because of their sexist philosophy, so it’s the same for krem, yay!’’ ugh.

plus, they created their concept for the sake of acceptance, but there is an icky question what the situation would be if there was, e.g., a trans woman wielding a sword. plus, the situation they’ve written for shokrakar is still icky whether the qunari would’ve decided to give her the label of aqun-athlok (and it's not her), or kept putting her into roles she was unfit for. the idea of aqun-athlok the way bioware untended it to be could be interesting, but their own desire to go “hey look bigoted culture” backfires into their faces, giving these good intentions a nauseating and questionable colouring. if they didn’t want to backpedal everything they’ve written about the qun gender system, they should’ve just sticked to the iron bull’s natural laid-back attitude. meanwhile, the fandom handled this matter in their head canons much better.

i think it is a great starter point for the iron bull to understand how gender functions in thedas and what is trans folks’ perspective there. this is a new world for both bull and krem. extra cool with other head canons about dalish having a different understanding of gender as well! they could discuss it with, well, their dalish.

i also saw cool thoughts about nb/trans/tama bull!! i believe qunari’s understanding of gender meeting thedosian one may result in quite interesting thoughts.

when if bull is declared tal-vashot, a new identity is inflicted upon him. he has no way back to par vollen and has to integrate into thedosian society. if we understand cisgender as someone whose assigned gender and how they’re perceived coincide with their perception of themself, then bull always has been a qunari cisgender.

what folks in thedas would count as trans might be cis in the qunari culture. or vice versa, bull may be perceived as a male, but it is foreign for him. i imagine he wouldn’t be happy being only perceived as a cis man, but would he be ever happy with the whole new system of gender at all? like, non-binary folks may include their identity assigned at birth in their actual identity, but still it wouldn’t be ok if people saw only this particular part of it.

tal-vashoth bull faces the whole new set of identities that are based on totally different features, and it’s interesting to see what comes out of it. in general, which labels from the qun culture would stay with tal-vashoth and which ones they would take from the thedosian culture. it depends on the angle from which they observe their identity, and it’s interesting to see which one tal-vashoth people or the iron bull specifically pick.

i’m also curious about what are the definitions of something we would call cis and trans under the qun. if there is a gender spectrum, then everybody’s non-binary, due to there are no binary system and oppositions... but still from the definition of cis almost everyone are cis, because qun is supposed to always assign the right role? ofc, again, there are aqun-athlok who changed their role throughout their lifetime. but the whole perception of what cis is may be different?

and what gender dysphoria feels like under the qun? does this perception set aqun-athlok and tal-vashoth on one level? thus, the former means growing out of your previous role/gender, the latter means growing out of the system itself. what are tal-vashoth even in this case of role = gender, then? would this same term of dysphoria mean a different concept (tal-vashoth/aqun-athlok being unfitting for their work function in society) in comparison to the modern understanding of dysphoria, or would it still cause the very same feeling for qunari?

and what does it mean for bull and his identity, gender identity included? i imagine it’s like having two different coordinate systems, externally and internally. is he a type of character to place himself on different points on each of them? is he not? tal-vashoth in general and bull specifically cannot just get rid of their previous relationships with gender and at the same time they can’t escape perception of gender in thedas. would this experience be dysphoric to them?

[sundogsandrainbows]

#elves were enslaved then #elves are ACTIVELY enslaved now #idc if it's “in character” for Bellara to express these worries#it's fucked up to characterize the primary mouthpiece for the Dalish perspective in this game like that in the first place

Still not over this. Insane thing to have a character from a race that's faced oppression, slavery, & colonization say "Maybe people shouldn't trust us"

[abyssal-ilk]

saw your tags on the romance poll dudes edition, im curious how the iron bull romance in your brain differs from the in game one if you wouldnt mind sharing!

hey, thank you so much for the ask!! i'm happy to talk about it, though im not sure i'm going to be the best in wording it, lol

my biggest gripe with the iron bull romance that we have in canon is that i just think its... not pulled off very well. it feels clunky, and a fair bit of the dialogue is more cringe-worthy or red-flagy than it is romantic or hot. i just don't think there were enough moments where the inquisitor and bull sit down and talk about their dynamic for it to be a healthy one to me. they kind of just jump into it with a few vague warnings from bull and then another conversation after they hook-up for the first time. the inquisitor is also locked in as being submissive to bull– he canonically won't switch with the inquisitor and let them take charge because, "it's not what they need.". it feels... idk, icky? for that choice to be made for the inquisitor.

and then, of course, there is the oversexualization/fetishization of the qunari and the racial stereotypes we see attached to them throughout the series. i think making iron bull, the first romancable qunari in the series, have such a sex-focused romance was a mistake. just as i think having taash's romance in datv be the "spicest" is a mistake. no matter how it is written, i think was a mistake. just because iron bull is aware of the stereotypes doesn't mean the fact that he plays into them is written well, i guess is what i'm trying to say. we see this even when dorian and bull get together and their banter surrounding their relationship.

that all being said! the romance In My Brain has more time dedicated to setting up the terms of their dynamic and does not lock the inquisitor in as being submissive. i think there should be some sort of choice between it being strictly sex between bull and the inquisitor, or if it eventually shifts into something else. or even if they start off hooking up and it shifts to not having sex at all but still being in some form of relationship. i know the game is limited for what it can do for various reasons, but i'd like for there to be more choices! and more soft moments. bull actually has a lot of them, but i would like More. i would also like for there to be a proper conversation between the inquisitor and bull about why, exactly, he feels the need to consistently play up the overly sexual/aggressive/clueless persona he presents. or some sort of option to return the care he gives the inquisitor beyond just giving him the dragon necklace. idk! im yapping and im not sure how well im explaining it lol, i'm a better writer than i am an explainer. i just wish it was different