#investiture of the gods mentioned

[the-monkey-ruler]

Hello!!! Stumbled upon this blog on a casual scroll-through and am super impressed at how thorough and passionate it is!! Kudos!!

I had a question, if it’s not too much of a bother:

Is there any sort of artifact mentioned in JTTW (or Chinese mythology at large) that’s been used to contain a yaoguai’s power/take it away from them? Maybe in the vein of Guanyin’s vase? Sorry if this doesn’t make sense.

So what you are asking for is something that can take away cultivation so to speak? There are some tv/movies that do show other yaoguai that are able to eat the life force of yaoguai and forcing them back into their original state therefore taking away their power and their humanoid form.

However that is more popular in modern media, as for any canon items they are more focused on subduing and capturing rather than depowering.

Gaunyin's vase sadly hasn't been able to show any depowering abilities either if you were asking about that. It has been show to whole an entire ocean and that it can hold healing water. But there are movies where she is able to capture demons (such as Wukong) in her vase and keep them in a state of status. But I don't know how in canon that is as she does have a lot of history outside of journey to the west.

But on to magical items in journey to the west! I shall rank them from most subduing to least subduing

Subduing Buff Attacking

Golden Jade Ring (金剛琢) - it can change size, is invulnerable to water and fire, can strike all things, collect various magic weapons and weapons, and has infinite uses. Laojun used this treasure to knock down Sun Wukong and help Erlang Shen capture him. The One Horned King used this treasure to take away Sun Wukong's golden hoop, Nezha's six weapons, and the magic weapons of hundreds of gods and generals. It can even dissolve water, fire, thunder and lightning. Later, Taishang Laojun, who came down to the world himself, defeated it with a fire-type banana fan. This was the thing that put Wukong stop in his tracks, doesn't take away power but def the most powerful.

Flask of Yin and Yang Essence (陰陽二氣瓶) - it contains the Seven Treasures and Eight Diagrams, twenty-four Qi, and requires thirty-six people, according to the number of Tiangang, to lift it. This treasure can hold a person and if a person does not speak, the bottle will be very cool. But once they speak, fire will burn them into pulp water in a moment. Wukonghad to use his Golden Hair he was given by Guanyin to escape. While not invincible it took another magical item to counteract it and thus very powerful.

Golden Cymbals (金鐃) - the magic weapon used by the Yellow-Browed Monster who trapped Sun Wukong inside and would have turned to puss inside it if he didn't escape. Sun Wukong escaped from the golden cymbal with the help of Kang Jinlong and immediately broke it. Took nearly an army to escape it, very powerful.

Purple Gold Red Gourd (紫金紅葫蘆) - as long as you call out your opponent's name if they respond, the elixir will pull them inside. Then a note with the words "The Supreme Lord Laozi, please obey my command as soon as possible" will be posted on it, and the elixir will turn into pus in a few hours. Hard to say how powerful this is since Wukong escaped it twice turning into a bug so... take that as user error or not.

Human Sack (人種袋) - Sun Wukong invited the twenty-eight constellations, the two generals of the tortoise and the snake, the five great dragons, Prince Xiao Zhang and the four great generals, but they were all put into the monster's bag. Later, Maitreya Buddha took back the human seed bag and put the demon king into the bag. Very powerful but does not kill, so less of a threat.

Golden Cloth Rope (幌金繩) it was originally a belt used by Taishang Laojun to tie his robe. It has a tightening rope spell but also a loosening rope spell and if a user knows both they most likely will not be affected. Powerful but if you know the loosening spell it is useless.

Suet Jade Flask (羊脂玉淨瓶) this was used by Taishang Laojun to make elixirs and hold water. It has space inside to hold water from all over the world.

Seven Stars Sword (七星劍) - the real sword from the Ming and Qing dynasties that has survived in modern times was used by Tan Sitong. The seven stars are mainly symbolic, but from the perspective of material mechanics, they should have the function of buffering stress concentration and preventing the sword from breaking.

Palm Leaf Fan (芭蕉扇) - The two banana fans, yin and yang, are held by Taishang Laojun and Princess Iron Fan respectively: the banana fan used by Taishang Laojun is yang, and the six Ding divine fire it fanned is the power source of the alchemy furnace; the banana fan used by Princess Iron Fan is yin, and its water vapor can extinguish the fire in Huoyan Mountain. The two fans are mutually reinforcing and mutually restraining. There are prototypes that can be traced in reality.

Banana Leaf Fan (芭蕉扇) - The extremely yin treasure fan can fan out water vapor, and water can extinguish fire, so it can extinguish the 800-li Flame Mountain. "Journey to the West" Chapter 59 "Tang Sanzang's Road Blocks the Flame Mountain, Sun Xingzhe Uses the Banana Fan" "...Her banana fan was originally a magical treasure created by heaven and earth since the beginning of chaos behind Kunlun Mountain. It is the essence of the Taiyin, so it can extinguish fire." The yin wind fanned out can make people drift 84,000 miles before it can stop.

Purple-Gold Bells (紫金鈴) - This Purple Gold Bell was forged by Taishang Laojun in the Eight Diagrams Furnace, and it is very powerful. Shake it once, and fire will come out. Shake it twice, and smoke will come out. Shake it three times, and sand and rocks will fly. Sun Wukong stole the golden bell and then subdued "Sai Taisui".

If you are looking for more magic items that can take away cultivation I actually think that there is something in FSYY that took away some daoists' cultivation... but I think that was more of a formation than an item... I'm sorry I didn't take notes on but that novel DEF has a lot of magical items!!

[lyon-77]

It's great to see Erlang Shen (二郎神) gaining more recognition in recent years, both with the current generation and globally. His portrayal in Black Myth: Wukong is particularly multilayered and fascinating. However, I've noticed some misunderstandings surrounding his character and development in Chinese lore and literature. As someone deeply interested in folk traditions and history, I’d love to explore this complex folk god with you all. If anyone's interested, feel free to share your thoughts, questions, or ideas!

As an intro, let me begin with Erlang Shen's divine roles in Chinese folk religion. TL;DR: His primary roles are as the god of water management, hunting, and protection. At different points in history, he also took on derivative roles as a patron of various artistic and leisure activities (music, drama, cuju [an ancient ball game], alcohol, gambling, etc.) and as a protector of the vulnerable including children, street vendors, and prostitutes. Yeah, pretty wild and non-discriminative

Many people seem to interpret Erlang Shen as a god of order and justice, constrained by the celestial court. While I understand the juxtaposition of this interpretation with Wukong, it does not really align with the lore tradition. Erlang Shen and Sun Wukong were indeed linked before the formulation of Journey to the West (JTTW)—most likely because Erlang Shen was originally the god of hunting. You can still see this in the fact that he's always accompanied by a hound. Traditionally, he also had an eagle (not commonly seen now) and carried a bow (which he used in his first match with Wukong in JTTW).

Some also mistake Erlang Shen as the Chinese God of War, but he is very much not. Erlang Shen is a protector god, originally of the multiethnic Sichuan (Shu) region of China. This region was independent of any central government for over half a century following the fall of the Tang Dynasty in the 10the century, and during the early 11th century, local people rebelled under Erlang Shen's name against the newly established Song Dynasty intermittently for over three decades. If we view the celestial court as a mirror of the mortal one, Erlang Shen essentially led multiple rebellions—this isn't lore but historical fact. To appease the people of the Shu region, the Song central government officially recognized Erlang Shen on the national level. Erlang Shen then gradually became the protector of Greater China and was prayed to during times of war, especially in the face of foreign invasions during Song Dynasty. His official recognition and tributes carried through all subsequent Chinese dynasties regardless of the ruling ethnic group—be it the Mongolian Yuan Dynasty, Han Ming Dynasty, or Manchurian Qing Dynasty.

In terms of lore, Erlang Shen wasn't linked to the Jade Emperor until around the time of JTTW. In The Investiture of the Gods, formulated around the same time as JTTW, Erlang Shen was the source of a main character but no connection to the Jade Emperor was ever mentioned. Again, this dubiety likely reflected the historical process of integrating Erlang Shen into the official pantheon, as he was simply too powerful and influential to ignore. In both traditional lore and in JTTW, Erlang Shen commands his own military (草头神，roughly translated to grassroot gods), is supported by loyal generals (the Mei Mount brothers), and resides in the Shu region, where his lore originated, rather than in the celestial realm. He maintains a cooperative relationship with the celestial court but enjoys great autonomy. Most importantly, Erlang Shen remains close to the mortal world and to the people he protects, which is why he lives on through millennia in the hearts of so many as a beloved folk god and takes on derivative protective roles in response to people's needs and trust.

TBC. Let me know if you find this interesting 👀

[cosmerelists]

Superpowers That Other Cosmere Fans Seem To Have (That I Do Not)

Inspired by this post, which is also #1 below. :D Basically, this is a post about amazing powers that I've noticed OTHER Cosmere fans seem to have, which I definitely & absolutely do not possess.

1. A Powerful Lack of Secondhand Embarrassment

I start with @lerelene's superpower, which is that they don't get secondhand embarrassment from the "And for MY boon" scene. That is VERY powerful indeed. I can barely reread that scene, and my brain is hiding behind a very large fan the whole time.

2. Recognizing Worldhoppers

I feel like some fans are reading along, when suddenly a character who is "kind of short, really" or who uses some slightly odd idiom is mentioned, and they say, "Ah HA! I see you, Worldhopper!" That could not be me. Unless the Worldhopper is, like, a major character in another book or is explicitly named, I've never recognized one in my life.

3. Understanding the Physics of Investiture

I'm not even sure physics is the right term? But, like, I know that there are underlying principles governing investiture and how it manifests cosmere-wide and I, uh, do not understand much of anything about that. I'm picking up on the fact that investiture turns black and oily (?) when it's wonky, but that's all I got.

4. Asking Sanderson Amazing Questions at Cons

Closely related is the superpower that some fans seem to have of coming up with really wild questions about the inner workings of investiture: like what happens if Nightblood drinks the Dor or how Hemalurgy can steal a Bond or....stuff. Interesting stuff that makes Sanderson hand out a RAFO card or just give a delightedly nerdy answer. I dream sometimes of asking one of those questions but frankly, I wouldn't even know where to begin.

5. Reading Everything Sanderson

I consider myself a pretty serious Sanderson fan, but I haven't even finished the Cosmere! Just missing White Sand, which I feel like isn't super uncommon, but still. There are people who've read all of the Cosmere AND the non-Cosmere books and probably Wheel of Time too. I think that is incredibly impressive. I will probably never do it all.

6. Keeping up with the WOBs

I'm actually not sure if this is a superpower that few have or just something that everyone else is doing that I don't, but....I can't keep up-to-date with all of the Words of Brandon. I don't watch the videos really and I've never been to a con. Every now and then people say things on the internet about, like, a Worldhopper Ball or MLM Renarin Day or something and I gradually pick stuff up. But I am definitely not on top of any of that.

7. Keeping the Timeline Straight

People who can even keep the in-book timelines straight impress me, but even more impressive are people who can keep the Cosmere-wide timeline straight. If you gave me two Cosmere series and asked me which is earlier chronologically, I'd probably shout "OH MY GOD IT'S HOID" and run for it.

So...what's YOUR Cosmere Superpower?

[quitealotofsodapop]

Opinion: "Into the Pagoda" needed to be a two-parter.

Mostly because there's some worldbuilding that needs to be addressed;

"Hooked on a Feeling" starts playing.

Why the jumpsuits? When did those become fashionable? Wouldn't an old fogey like Li Jing just use rags?

In "Fengshen Yanyi"/"Investiture of the Gods"; Li Jing got the Pagoda second-hand from Randeng Daoren (a door god compared to an earlier Buddha) in order to put War-Form Nezha in timeout. I don't think even Li Jing really knows how it works.

Do those trapped within the Pagoda need to eat? Is there a cafeteria?

Does it have the time passage thing Buddhist Hell is said to have? Where it can feel like a billion years have passed - only for the outside to have just been one earth year? The gang could spend what they think is weeks inside the Pagoda, only to pop out and see that Li Jing and Nezha are only in the process of leaving the Dragon-Tiger festival.

Is there a strict schedule like in irl prisons - or are the inhabitants just allowed to run around as they please? A culture def would develop from that.

Confucian and Imperial Chinese laws probably don't eke out the same punishment as today. According to one article I found + Wikipedia; people could be seriously punished for stuff as small as; disrespecting their parents, not looking sad enough when a relative or spouse passed, stealing imperial property, being a wizard, crafting a poison, or disrespecting the Emperor and/or his family. There's probably a bunch of inmates in the Pagoda who are there for really petty crimes.

(*The Monkie Kids are approached by a gang of tough-looking demons while inside the Pagoda*) Demon #1: "Hey there, new meat. What'cha in for?" Demon #2: "Looks like he's in for stealing a lollipop!" Demon gang: (*loud guffaws!*) Macaque, whispering: "Tell them why you're here. You need to seem tough to earn their respect." MK: (*nods affirmatively*) MK, brightly addresses the demon gang: "Hi! I'm under investigation for conspiracy to destroy the Jade Emperor, Guardians of the Four Cardinal Directions, and the Fifth Heavenly Pillar itself." The demon gang: (*all in varying looks of horror and disgust*) Demon #1: "What!? What kind of psychos are they letting in now!?" Demon #2: "Screw this! I'm only in for weeing on a grave!" (*the whole gang of demons scatter in fear*) Macaque: "A little too tough, kiddo."

We only get to see the random "Red Maned Demon" and the 100 Eyed Demon. Where tf is everyone? This is probably more of an animation budget issue though since the gang mentions fighting through a bunch of demons.

There appears to be a power hierarchy - likely separated based on level, power, or severity of crime. The mook "Red Maned Demon" tries to posture at the gang before he realises that Sun Wukong is there. And Macaque was imprisoned long enough to recognise that the 100 Eyed Demon "taken over this whole section of the pagoda".

Since Li Jing is seen in "The Cage" being able to go inside the Pagoda - does he do rounds of the place?

Do they ever get pardons? In fact; does anyone investigate when Li Jing shoves someone in there? Homeboy isn't actually an impartial judge. There needs to be a regular inspection or an audit or something.

Mei: "Hey guys! I met this dragon locked in solitary while we were running around - turns out he's my cousin! Don't worry - he isn't a murder or nothing! The sign by his cell said "Not to open under any circumstance" and that he's only in for Insubordination." Ao Bing: (*tied up like Hannibal Lecter in "Silence of the Lambs"*) Ao Bing, muffled: "Hi." The gang: (*all shared looks of suspicion and nervousness. Except Wukong, who comes forward to inspect the new dragon*) Tang: "Mei, I don't think it's wise to bring along a dangerous convict just because he's-" Wukong, recognising: "Sweet Buddha! THIS IS AO GUANG'S KID!!!" The Gang: (*jumps at his exclamation!*) "Who?!" Wukong: "Ao Bing! Third Prince of the East Sea! He's been missing for centuries!" Tang, gasping in nerd: "THE Ao Bing!? The dragon prince who infamously fought and died at the hands of Nezha!?" Wukong: "Pff! Died. You mortals keep forgetting! Ao Bing was revived after the Investiture Crisis so he could become the Canopy Star - taking over from a certain Marshal who fell to earth and became a pig demon." Sandy: "Then what is he doing here? Shouldn't he be in the sky or back with his dad?" Mei: "Yeeeaaah. I'm kinda confused why too." Ao Bing, muffled snarling: "Li Jing!" MK: "Oh yeah. Going by I've seen. I would not be surprised if Li Jing locked this guy away on bunk charges just to save face over the whole Nezha incident." The Gang: (*all nod in agreement*) Wukong: "Guess we have a new member to the; "Find the Stones and Fix the Pillar" party!" Ao Bing, unaware: "The what!?"

Nezha of course would have many questions once the Gang gets out... mostly directed at his dad.

When MK busted out of the Pagoda - he straight up seemed to break it. Imagine the thousands of beings suddenly free from the Pagoda after what felt like billions of years - only to see that the world is breaking apart.

Imma say my biggest take here; 100 Eyed Demon was wasted potential.

What's his deal? Does he want out too? Why is he in Li Jing's Pagoda if he was defeated and sent to guard Bodhisattva Vilambā/Pilanpo in the lore? Is Li Jing keeping him trapped as an interrogator?

His memory digging actually helped MK understand what he is - albeit in a traumatic fashion. Was 100 Eyed controlling the LBD Memory/Projection, was that really her from beyond, or was she an aspect of MK's mind?

What does 100 Eyed get out of reading people's memories? Is it a hunting strategy? Is it for entertainment? Probably no tvs in jail. Dude could have dug into a lot more lore of the characters if he was allowed cook some more.

We didn't get to see the memories of anyone else in the gang besides MK and very briefly Wukong. I wanna see some of the stuff Mei, Pigsy, Tang, Sandy, or even Mo has hidden.

Wukong apparently killed the 100 Eyed Demon without giving a chance for him to explain himself - as he's considered a Deceased character. His body even goes gray and limp as the gang celebrates finding MK. Kinda dark.

Where is his connection to the Spider Demons? What if the reason he was scouring MK's memories was to figure out what happened to them?

100 Eyed Demon: "Where is she?!" MK: "Huh?" (*MK sees that he's in his memory of "72 Transformations" when he last saw the Spider Queen.*) 100 Eyed Demon: "HER." MK, realising: "I...! I don't know! She was worried about the Lady Bone Demon. She even let me get away so I could find a way to stop her. I think... I think the bone demon used them all to create her weapon." (*the memory flashes to the fight with LBD; showing the spirits of the dead Spider Demon.*) 100 Eyed Demon, despairing so hard that the mindscape shakes: "NO! Not her! I haven't had time to-" (*MK is suddenly broken from his memory binge, now seeing the centipede demon sobbing from within his memories.*) MK: "Hey... you ok bud?" 100 Eyed Demon: (*sitting amongst the memories of being a younger demon, surrounded by seven small spider demons calling him "Gege". The eldest of the spiders has a very familiar beauty mark.*) 100 Eyed Demon: "She... Jing. She was the last of them. My sisters. I refused to stand down against the Monkey King in exchange for their safety... and they paid the price." (*the memories turn to the fight between Sun Wukong and the 100 Eyed Demon during the Journey. How the centipede had poisoned the Pilgrims, and how Wukong offered the lives of his sisters for the antidote... and how the 100 Eyed Demon refused.*) MK, JTTW knowledge kicking in: "Ohhhh..." 100 eyed Demon: "Even with my pardon from Pilanpo, I had no time to apologies for how I acted. How I so fragrantly gambled their lives for my own..." (*the mind-scape goes blank for some time, showing scattered memories of the centipede as a guard for his Bodhisattva. His employment only halted when he attacked Li Jing for disrespecting her - leading to his imprisonment in the Pagoda*) 100 Eyed Demon: "If my sister's final act was to deem you worthy to live, so shall I." MK: "Huh?" (*the 100 Eyed Demon suddenly releases himself and MK from the memories*) 100 Eyed Demon: "Zhizhu Jing's death has already been repaid with the destruction of the Bone Demon. I see no reason to keep you here any longer. Go forth Harbinger. Accomplish what I cannot; leave this Pagoda." MK: "Th-thank you! Not just for letting me go but... for helping me see that stuff. How I was made." 100 Eyed Demon: "It is no great issue. I only ask that... you punch the Pagoda King in the face. For me." MK, saluting: "Will do!"

[ultimateinferno]

If Vasher is in fact the one who made Gavilar's anti-Light then this man has invented 2 completely unrelated weapons of mass destruction.

Walk with me.

Anti-Light is very clearly the investiture equivalent of antimatter. Like antimatter, which has the same "mass" as regular just opposite charge, anti-Light has the same energy (wavelength) as Light, but opposite amplitude. When combined, they're completely eradicated as they're transformed into energy (explosion). This applies to antimatter and—as seen in Rhythm of War—anti-Light. Not only can this create a bomb, but it can perhaps create the bomb.

The issue with most conventional weapons (and any source of fuel, really) is that their conversion into energy is imperfect. There's numbers floating around out there about the percentage of energy actually put out per source from wood to gasoline to plutonium. The big thing about all of them is that they create some byproduct besides the energy. Methane combustion for instance always puts out carbon dioxide and water.

In Einstein's famous equation, E = mc^2, we are given a "perfect conversion" between mass and energy. You can X kilos of matter from Y Joules of energy and vice versa, assuming you don't lose anything to byproducts. This is a shit load of energy. That c in the equation isn't a variable like E and m are. It's the speed of light. 299,792,458 meters per second.

By and large, tapping into this energy is really super hard. As I mentioned, there's always byproducts. Even ignoring the issue of entropy and diffusion of energy into an environment, most of it is preserved by the aforementioned material byproducts that come out of chemical reactions. The most efficient reactions we have in the modern day is all nuclear in nature, be it fission like decaying atoms in nuclear reactors or fusion like within the sun. But even then, for all the energy they release, you will still come up with matter in the end.

That is unless you have antimatter.

The amount of energy you will release from a kilograms worth of an antimatter bomb is 1000 times stronger than that released from Fat Man dropped on Nagasaki. Half of that of the largest nuclear bomb ever tested, the Tsar Bomba. 90 petaJoules of energy.

If Harmonium/Trellium was the Invested equivalent of a nuke (hi, this is a Cosmere post, remember?) then antiLight is far and away worse, and it's been invented on two separate occasions, once by Navani (#girlboss), and—if theories turn out to be correct—Vasher, who's given us other hits like the God Killing Sword.

[jedineedlove]

Legend VS LMK Characters:

Kui Mulang (LMK):

[Kaui Mulang, Guard of the Celestial Court, Mansion of the White Tiger, Devourer of Earthly Souls]

Korean: Gyumokrang Mandarin: The Wood Wolf of Legs

Former Celestial Guard turned Yellow-Robed Demon.

After Falling in Love with Jade Maiden and having their love rejected by the Celestial Realm. He gave up their immortality and he awaited for her to reincarnate. As he waits to make sure he will be there to see her he consumes mortal lives to longavit his own.

The 28 Mansions mentioned by him are part of the Chinese constellation system as to why there is so much star imagery is in his castle.

Kui Mulang (Ledgend):

Kui Mulang originated from the ancient Chinese worship of the constellations, a spiritual practice that combines Chinese mythology and astronomy. He is considered to be one of the 28 Mansions, which are Chinese constellations. These are the same as those studied in Western astrology. He appears in Chinese mythology literate notably the JTTW & Fengshen Yanyi.

He is linked to a historical figure called Ma Wu, a general who hailed from the town of Huyang in Tanghe, located in the Henan province.

Kui Mulang is associated with the constellation Andromeda, which appears in the sky in the middle of November. In this constellation is Kui Xiu, described as the "four-legged fish palace" of Heshansu (和善宿) because its shape is similar to a fish. Another constellation, the White Tiger, is also associated with this cluster of stars.

According to the novel Investiture of the Gods (Fengshen Yanyi), Kui Mulang was originally named Li Xiong. After he died in the Battle of the Ten Thousand Immortals, Jiang Ziya deified him as the Wood Wolf of Legs, one of the twenty-eight stars.

In JTTW

Kui Mulang appears as a demon named Yellow Robe Demon . He lives the Moon Waves Cave on Bowl Mountain in the Kingdom of Baoxiang. In his past, the Yellow Robe Demon falls in love with the Jade Maiden in Heaven and decides to elope with her. He becomes a demon lord and the maiden is reincarnated from a goddess to a human who is named Baihuaxiu . She is the third princess of the Kingdom of Baoxiang. The demon then kidnaps the princess, though she has no memory of her existence as a Jade Maiden. He marries her and the couple has two children. Sun Wukong manages to defeat the demon, which mysteriously vanishes after his defeat. Wukong then seeks help from Heaven to track down the demon and learn his true identity. The Jade Emperor discovers that one of the 28 Mansions is missing, so he orders the remaining 27 to subdue the demon. The demon is revealed to be a disguised as Revatī, the Wood Wolf of Legs, a star deity in the heavenly court, and one of the 28 Mansions. The Wood Wolf is then subdued and brought back to Heaven. As punishment, he is ordered to become a furnace keeper under Taishang Laojun.

Jade Maiden:

Considering she is a huge part of Kui Mulang's life I thought maybe also some info about her as well.

[ Yunü / Jade Girl or Jade Maiden]

Yunü is a common designation for a beautiful woman or, in Daoism, for a fairy or immortal

A Taoist deity or goddess in Chinese mythology and Chinese traditional religion who, along with her male counterpart Jintong (Golden Boy), are favored servants of the Jade Emperor and Zhenwudadi. 

They are also believed to serve as guides in the underworld and the protectors of houses and temples. Some of the Golden Boy and Jade Girl pair could be found on some graves at Bukit Brown Cemetery as they are believed to serve as guides in the Spirit World or the Underworld.

During the spring festival, pictures featuring the two can be found on the doors of many households.

This couple helps virtuous souls over a golden bridge to paradise and helps souls whose good deeds outweighed the bad, over a silver bridge to paradise. Therefore by erecting the Golden Boy and Jade Maiden by the grave of the deceased, living family members hope that the deceased will not venture into the courts of hell but instead lead their afterlife in paradise. Yunü and Jintong have appeared in several stories since the Song and Yuan dynasties and have become important figures in Chinese mythology.

There are several mountain peaks bearing her name.

In Journey to the West, Yunü is a servant maid of the Jade Emperor in Heaven. She falls in love with a star god called Kui Mulang and decides to elope with him. However, she doesn't want to ruin Heaven's pureness, so she decides to reincarnate as a human. She enters the human world as Baihuaxiu, the third princess of the Kingdom of Baoxiang.

In Other Literature:

Specific examples are the southern opera version of the legend, Jintong and Yunü, In this context, Yunü is called Longnü and Jintong is called Shancai Tongzi. According to the Shenyijing, Yunü and her companions loved to play touhu, a Chinese game in which arrows or darts are thrown into a vase. In the Avatamsaka Sutra, she and Jintong seek enlightenment and are acolytes of Guan Yin. In this context, Yunü is called Longnü and Jintong is called Shancai Tongzi. Some folktales say that Xue Dingshan and Fan Lihua were originally the Golden Boy and Jade Girl. The Jade Emperor was furious with them and wanted to punish them for breaking the celestial utensils. Fortunately, the Old Man of the South Pole begged for their mercy and was demoted to the mortal world. In the Hanyi ji play, the protagonists Qi Liang and Meng Jiang are reincarnations of Jintong and Yunü. In most popular versions of The Butterfly Lovers, the protagonists Liang Shanbo and Zhu Yingtai are human reincarnations of Jintong and Yunü who are expelled from Heaven Court by Guanyin or the Jade Emperor for their sin and forced to live as a thwarted couple for three or seven generations before being reunited and restored to their original status.

Thoughts:

Yunü has a lot of love and being kicked/leaving heaven tales.

But did love she was more than just known for this story alone.

The JTTW and LMK versions of Kui Mulang are not too different. However, in the retelling of their love tale he only mentioned himself ridding them of their immortality it almost sounded like in that tale she might have had second thoughts and he did it by force. But I hope not but we can never know because the LMK changed a lot of the characters and tweaked some backstories.

I think the real change in the LMK is that Kui Mulang captured Ao Lie before the JTTW. From the way he talked about the Jade Maiden, she had not been reincarnated or at least he had not captured her yet. For Ao Lie It had to be after his banishment of course because he talked about his powers causing damage he felt bad for aka when he burned his dad's stuff.

Well, I hope you, readers enjoyed:)

[ryin-silverfish]

I saw your post trying to make sense of why Wikipedia said Nuwa was the Jade Emperor’s daughter when it was never said in Investiture of the Gods and was wondering if you could explain another piece of misinformation from there that confused me; in Lady Yin/Nezha’s mom’s page, it said she was reincarnation of the Jade Emperor’s second daughter, but I never heard that while reading the book, and most Chinese sources I’ve read don’t mention anything like that, so how did that idea come about?

There is actually a single obscure folk opera from the Dongyong + Lotus Lantern collection, 新出二郎劈山救母全段, where oldest of JE's daughter is married to Ao Guang, the second oldest to Devaraja Li Jing (she's not a reincarnation), and the third is Erlang's mom.

However, outside of that one opera, Lady Yin was just a regular human in FSYY novel, who pretty much disappeared off the grid after the conclusion of Nezha's story, and, unlike Li Jing and the rest of her family, does not become an immortal "Sage in Flesh".

(Wikipedia also said she was called Lady Yin in the Grand Compendium of Gods in the Three Religions (三教搜神大全)...which is not true at all. In this source, she is referred to as Lady Suzhi (素知夫人) instead.)

[journeytothewestresearch]

Nezha's family

Fans of Lego Monkie Kid, did you know that Nezha (哪吒), this guy ...

... has siblings?! He is the youngest of three brothers. The oldest is Jinzha (金吒) and the middle child is Muzha (木吒; a.k.a. Mucha, 木叉). In Journey to the West, the former is, to my knowledge, only mentioned once. However, the latter is mentioned many times. Muzha serves as the Bodhisattva Guanyin's (觀音) disciple and protector, and he wields an iron staff.

All three play a much larger role in Investiture of the Gods (Fengshen yanyi, 封神演義, c. 1620).

I recently acquired religious statues of the brothers. Having all three from the same set is extremely rare. So, I consider myself very lucky to have found them!

Jinzha carries two seven-star swords (qixing jian, 七星劍). He stands on golden drums.

Nezha holds his trademark fiery spear and golden hoop. He stands on fire wheels.

And Muzha wields two melon hammers (gua chui, 瓜錘). He stands on golden orbs.

[hel-the-growl]

Cultural Annotations on New Gods: Yang Jian -Part 1-

This is the companion piece to my long-ass thread about the same topic on twitter.

Light Chaser really outdid themselves with the visuals and research this time, and with Yang Jian out in NA theaters, it's totally worth seeing on the big screen.

There were so many historical references packed into this movie, I thought I'd do a deep dive into the characters, motifs and lore associated with Investiture of the Gods scene by scene.

Background

Yang Jian is the second instalment of the New Gods series of animated films (after Nezha Reborn), that are loosely based on the 16th-century Chinese novel Investiture of the Gods (IOTG). IOTG shares some canon with other Chinese classics like Journey to the West, Classic of Mountains and Seas, Lotus Lantern etc. so there may be crossovers.

The character Yang Jian, better known as the god Erlang, is a figure widely regarded as heaven's greatest warrior deity. He is recognized for having a third truth-seeing eye, and in IOTG, helped bring about the fall of the Shang Dynasty in 1046 BC.

The movie however, takes place during the Wei, Jin and Northern and Southern dynasties circa 5th century AD, some 1500 years after events of IOTG. We first meet Yang Jian as a rather lethargic but free-spirited individual, 12 years after losing his powers during a great disaster involving the three realms, scraping by as a bounty hunter.

A rough timeline

c. 1075-1066 BC: Yang Jian is born

c. 1060-1050 BC: Yang Jian cleaves Peach Mountain

1046 BC: Battle of Muye (Conclusion of Investiture of the Gods)

c. 9 BC-23 AD: Erlang defeats Sun Wukong (Journey to the West, Chapter 7 - Havoc in Heaven)

c. 405 AD: Disaster of the Three Realms; Yang Chan is trapped under Mount Hua

c. 417 AD: New Gods: Yang Jian

c. 1920s - c. 1930s: Nezha Reborn

Breakdown

Yang Jian’s crew all have backstories. In Journey to the West, Kang Anyu (康安裕) and Yao Gonglin (姚公麟) are two of Erlang’s six brothers of Plum Mountain, both supreme government officials in charge of military affairs. Maybe we’ll get to find out about the other four’s whereabouts in later instalments?

Xiaotian is Erlang’s dog sidekick who helps him subdue evil spirits and never leaves his side. The movie’s version of Xiaotian seems to be inspired by ancient paintings depicting her as a white hound.

The wanted bulletin printer seems to be inspired by a Hu Shi Ren You (虎噬人卣), a tiger-shaped Ancient Chinese wine vessel.

In Chinese mythology, Penglai is a legendary island for immortals. It has been reimagined to be the equivalent of the CBD of the divine realm.

The dice used in the casino are 18-sided Xing Jiu Ling (行酒令) from the Han Dynasty. It has the numbers 1 to 16, along with the characters for "wine" and "arrogance" engraved in gold and silver. The rat is the first animal of the Chinese Zodiac.

Shunfeng’er (顺风耳), who now goes by Old Gao and works at the casino, was usually accompanied by Qianliyan (千里眼). They are two temple guards whose names translate to “all-hearing” and “all-seeing” that could hear and see things from thousands of miles away.

Light Chaser is serious about its monkey business. The way casino monkey grabbed Yang Jian’s tally with his foot, the big ape miming and even in Nezha Reborn where the little monkey imitated Yunxiang.

Fun fact: The monkey is voiced by Yang Tianxiang, the same actor who voiced Li Yunxiang (Nezha) in Nezha Reborn.

Refresher - Primordial Spirit, known in Chinese as yuanshen (元神), is is a concept in Daoism defined to be a level of existence surpassing that of physical existence. In the New Gods universe, they manifest as giant glowing avatars.

New Gods also has a recurring theme of lost Astras - In Nezha Reborn, Wukong’s staff is nowhere to be found and Yunxiang has only recovered Nezha’s Sky Ribbon so far. Among Erlang’s many Astras, three are mentioned in the movie.

Yang Jian’s headdress is designed to resemble his signature trident, the "three-pointed, double-edged lance". Hence when casino monkey asked him where his weapon was, he clinked the headdress.

This weapon was later shown in a flashback:

Another one of his Astras is a golden bow with silver bullets. According to the director, it was melted into his harmonica (although this was probably retconned as in the teaser for the sequel, it was his mother who gave it to him as a child). The harmonica not only has the powers of his bow, but is also the ignition key for his ship.

The third weapon featured is his mountain-cleaving axe (开山斧). It is the axe he used to split Peach Mountain in half to save Yaoji. He is shown wielding the same axe in the opening montage 1500 years earlier and it is currently wedged inside the Lotus Peak of Mount Hua from the events of 12 years ago. Needless to say it is a powerful Astra with earth-shattering capabilities.

The Four Diablo Brothers - Mo Lihong, Mo Liqing, Mo Lihai, and Mo Lishou - were initially antagonists in IOTG, having launched an attack on the Western Foothills. This led to the introduction of Yang Jian, who helped defeat the brothers.

By the conclusion of the novel, they were enshrined as the Four Heavenly Kings - Vaiśravaṇa, king of yakṣas (多闻天王; Duowen Tianwang), Virūḍhaka, king of kumbhāṇḍas (增长天王; Zengzhang Tianwang), Dhṛtarāṣṭra, king of gandharvas (持国天王; Chiguo Tianwang) and Virūpākṣa, king of nāgas (广目天王; Guangmu Tianwang). In the movie, only Mo Liqing was addressed by his title when Shen Gongbao met him inside the lighthouse.

There's a PSA on the noticeboard with a picture of Nezha pissing. It reads "no urinating or defecating here." This might be a piss (pun intended) at the 2019 animation Ne Zha from a rival studio, and its hilarious promo. The shade 💀

Further supporting my theory that White Snake and New Gods are from the same universe, Precious Jade from White Snake is recruiting!!! And medicine boy plugging his illegal business lol.

Jinxia Cave (金霞洞), lit. Gold Sunset Cave is Yuding’s HQ. It is located on Jade Spring Mountain in the Divine realm.

The little disciple playing the flute is a tribute to the 1963 ink animation “The Bamboo Flute” (牧笛) produced by Shanghai Animation Film Studio.

Yuding is one of the many disciples of Yuanshi Tianzun, one of the highest deities of Daoism known as the Primeval Lord of Heaven. Yuding is ranked 10th among the “12 golden disciples”, and among his peers are Jiang Ziya (the main character of IOTG who led the battle against Shang), Taiyi Zhenren (Nezha’s master) and Shen Gongbao etc. They are all practitioners of Chan Daoism, also known as Kunlun Sect, founded by Laozi and Yuanshi Tianzun.

In the tale of the Magic Lotus Lantern, Chenxiang was the son of Yang Chan AKA Goddess San Shengmu AKA the holy mother of Mount Hua AKA Erlang’s sister, and a mortal scholar named Liu Yanchang. This parallels the Yang siblings’ own origin story as the children of a goddess and a mortal.

Chenxiang literally means Agarwood. It is a revered wood valued for its use in incense and traditionally burned during meditation.

The place on Jade Spring Mountain where Yuding sealed the sect brother’s Dharmakaya (the embodiment of the truth itself, a transcendence of the physical and spiritual bodies) is based on the travertine pools in and around Jiuzhaigou, Sichuan. Notably, a scene from Journey to the West, a story associated with Erlang, was once filmed at one of the waterfalls here. I’ve been here and yes, it looks exactly like this irl.

Part 2｜Part 3｜Part 4

[assblastergaster]

episode one!!!!

things i noticed that i haven't seen anyone mention quite yet

• Aegon's scenes this episode showcased his character quite well! They showed the two faces of him: the petulant boy king when he deals with his family—who acts cruelly out when he doesn't get his way—and the people pleaser king who wants to make everyone happy because it makes him feel adored (and worthy of the crown).

• The showrunners kept their word and have actually "grown" the dragons—Rhaenyra and Syrax's scenes showcase this.

• Helaena's lack of guards that would otherwise be a weird, tropey storytelling device is established well beforehand by Cole's obvious disbelief at "this is the last time" (indicating he's heard it before and thus been shirking his duties), Cole and Aegon's cavalier meeting that seemed to shake Otto at its brazenness and the former's abandonment of his post, and the inclusion of Aegon's drunken group guarded by the other kingsguards. It was a spark travelling up a trail of gunpowder the whole time, and we didn't even notice. (BONUS: Alicent has also been dismissing her staff for privacy and perhaps to avoid Larys' reach)

• Aemon reasoning away his utter shock and horror at his actions with the idea to go to war—to justify the blood on his hands with more. But then to see his grandfather push him back to where he was before his brother's investiture, where he lusts after the throne but understands he must be patient. Ironic.

• Obviously, the parallels between Alicent's mourning at the altar of the Seven versus Rhaenyra's funeral. Both worshipping completely different gods with different funerary rites, but both see only sadness in the flames.

• Alicent's seeming hypersexuality (not really, but comparatively) with Cole being—IMO—a response to the sexual assault/harassment she's been receiving from Larys. Their conversation immediately makes the scene stagnant and uncomfortable, and all of the following scenes with Alicent's household staff are similarly eerie (and probably part of the reason why she sent them away).

• Cole clearly feels more and more comfortable openly speaking his mind, to the king, to the small council, to whomever. Surely this won't come back to bite him

[the-monkey-ruler]

I was reading some Chinese texts and stories, and I have seen that while the immortals have their magic, they despise sorcery. Why is sorcery seen as negative by immortals and why are they different? (like, I think it's mentioned that Shen Gongbao relied more on sorcery even thought he has an immortal teacher)

I'm afraid I don't quite understand the English difference of how 'sorcery' and 'magic' are different things let alone how the translator from what you read translated the original characters. I have never seen any king of cultivation in Daoism being translated as 'sorcery' so I can't say what really say what the original characters could be talking about. It could be talking about 巫术 which I think sometimes include blood rituals but never seen in stories as something ‘bad’ or even acknowledged in Daoist stories. If anything, I think they were more regarded as doctors with unusual methods and fairly good with technology. But I really only seen it to describe Western wizards/witches the most so I cannot say how mush it is used in Daoist stories.

As far as I have been aware Shen Gongbao uses cultivation just as any other immortal and I do not think that he has ever killed/taken his cultivation from any other living creature. That is the only thing I can assume would be 'bad' as it is feeding off another's life force or perhaps even just meaning 'using cultivation for trouble.' I recall that most of his 'evil' deeds come more from Shen Gongbao's ability to manipulate people are his words and being a vengeful man rather than anything dark with his cultivation.

The best guess I can give you is that Shen Gongbao in your translation is the bad guy of the narrative and thus the term 'sorcery' has negative implications in Western term and that is why it is used. Similar to how 'fairy' is used for 仙 when 'immortal' is more proper but this chance depends on whether the immortal is a woman or not.

You can take a read yourself but I think it is just a translation preference.

"Taoism branched from witchcraft. During the Jin and Tang dynasties, due to the participation and compilation of literati and the absorption of a large number of Buddhist scriptures and theories, the original religious form of witchcraft and Taoism became theorized, and Taoism developed a large distance from witchcraft. Taoism has since risen to the level of the upper ruling class, while shamanism has continued to flow among the people. Since the ruling class in history banned witchcraft and " obscene sacrifices" from an orthodox position, the survival of witchcraft has become very difficult. Therefore, witchcraft began to seek survival and a way out. First of all, it was to get closer to Taoism. So that the people also agree that they belong to Taoism. As this development continued, witchcraft and Taoism gradually merged, forming a form of shamanism consisting of both witchcraft and Taoism, and the "two gates of Taoism and Law", namely internal witchcraft and external Taoism.

First of all, shamanism must identify Taishang Laojun , the ancestor god of Taoism , as its leader to confirm that shamanism also belongs to "Laojun's religion" or "Laojun's sect". So based on the legend of Laozi , I compiled the origin of Taishang Laojun, thinking that witchcraft became the original version of Taoism. In addition to moving Taishang Laojun, Zhang Tianshi , Sanqing , Sanyuan, Sanguan, Wuyue , Sidu , Xuantian God and many Taoist gods were also moved into the witch altar, and they were named "Taishang Wuling Laojun" Or "The Supreme Three-Yuan Heart Zhengfa", "The Supreme Five Thunder Purple Micro Thunder Court" and other titles were listed on it, and they absorbed a large number of Taoist scriptures such as "The Supreme Sutra of Changing Purity", "The Supreme Xuantian Miao Sutra", "Tai Shang Zi Wei Treasure Repentance", "Tai Shang Laojun Xing Treasure Repentance", "Three Officials Sutra", "The Three Officials of Heaven, Earth and Water to Eliminate Disasters and Sinless Confessions", "Eleven Days", "South Dou Sutra", The Beidou Sutra and other sutras and confessions are enriched in the witchcraft and Taoist altar with Taoist rituals.

- "A Discussion on the Formation of Witch-Tao Culture in the Symbiosis Cultural Circle" by Ye Mingsheng

[onlycosmere]

Haylo_Alex: You've said before that Soulcasting can't create atium or lerasium which makes sense since they're made of Investiture from other Shards. But could a Soulcaster, perhaps in the proximity of Dalinar's perpendicularity, provide enough Stormlight to Soulcast something into Honor's Godmetal (tanavastium)? What about Cultivation's metal, or an alloy of both, like Shardblade metal?

Brandon Sanderson: So, creating a God Metal is not something that's done easily in the Cosmere. HOWEVER, it is possible. You'd need a ton of Investiture, and being near Dalinar's perpendicularity is unlikely to be enough. I'd say Soulcasting, or something akin to it, has the means to do this if it could obtain the proper power charge.

Footnote: The questioner is mentioning this WoB.

[lyon-77]

Erlang Shen — Unpacking the Complex Layers of a Timeless God Pt. 1

Erlang is unique in Chinese mythology as an ancient god who remains vibrant and active in the 21st century. Unlike other ancient folk gods, whose vitality has long been lost, or newer heroes like Sun Wukong, emerged in the early modern period and resonate strongly with contemporary audiences, Erlang Shen's enduring presence in cultural life is a rare exception to the general trend. Writing about the origin of Erlang Shen is challenging because of his complexities. I hope I do justice to his cultural significance while keeping it engaging and accessible.

Originally a regional chief god and hero-god, Erlang’s influence expanded and peaked during the Song (960 to 1279 CE) and Yuan (1271-1368 CE) dynasties. During the Ming dynasty (1368-1644 CE), as popular folklore and dramas became formalized in influential works like JTTW and Investiture of the Gods, Erlang appeared alongside new heroes, who were often written to match or challenge the abilities of established deities like Erlang, both as a tribute and to lend legitimacy to the fresh characters. This dynamic placed Erlang as a benchmark against which rising figures were measured. During the Qing dynasty (1644-1912 CE), Erlang’s influence had stagnated, prompting unconscious efforts to revive key motifs in his lore. His legendary mountain-splitting feat was reimagined to center around a different character Chenxiang. Over time, Chenxiang's tale was attached to Erlang's mythos, with Chenxiang portrayed as his nephew. This revision introduced inconsistencies that distorted Erlang’s character, transforming him from a heroic young lord into an cold-hearted oppressor. Such a drastic re-telling was only possible during a period of decline in Erlang’s worship, and it further contributed to a more negative interpretation of Erlang. A god truly dies when no one remembers their name. By the 19th and 20th centuries, Erlang’s lore was on the brink of ossification and his original character nearly submerged to history. 

However, Erlang has survived, in part because many of his stories were preserved in written and oral traditions. Those enduring records prompted contemporary audiences to rediscover him and trace back his origin and development, revealing a complex, inspiring character ought not be forgotten.

In New Gods: Yang Jian

Certainly, Erlang carries far more “baggage” than new heroes. His mythos, shaped by layers of history and storytelling, can be confusing and at times contradictory. A prominent example is again the story of Chenxiang, which many argue doesn’t align with Erlang’s established character. As such, many people reject Chenxiang’s story as part of Erlang’s canon, while others try to reconcile the inconsistency by introducing new storylines that re-establish Erlang as a misunderstood hero. Both the TV series Lotus Lantern (2005) and the animated film New Gods: Yang Jiang (2022) took this latter approach, whereas the film Creation of The God: Kingdom of Storms (2023) and Black Myth: Wukong (2024) followed the traditional narrative, with no mention of any siblings (let alone nephew).

In Creation of The God: Kingdom of Storms

The deeper and more insidious “baggage” in Erlang Shen’s lore, however, lies in its historical and cultural nuances. Erlang’s image is shaped by multiethnic folk mythology, Daoist canonization, and political canonization. Venerated by the Han, Baima (historically Di), Amdo Tibetan, Tu (Monguor), and other ethnic groups in and north of the Shu region (modern-day Sichuan), Erlang embodies the rich cross-cultural exchanges that occurred in southwest China. His character also reflects the historical tension and balance between the borderland and the central government, echoing contemporary debates about whether Erlang is the people's god or a dutiful servant of the celestial court. Beneath all these, there’s another layer of tension between humanity’s awe of natural forces and its desire to tame nature. 

For me, Erlang Shen is fascinating precisely because of these “baggages.” His complexities make him susceptible to misunderstanding but also offer rich potential for new interpretations, as seen in modern adaptations including Black Myth: Wukong. For those interested in history and culture, Erlang’s layered mythos provides a lens through which we can connect with the past while gaining fresh insights into the present.

In future posts, I will unpack each of those nuanced tensions with you.

[kaibutsushidousha]

Who are the Twelve Golden Immortals that Taigong keeps mentioning? Are they his superiors?

The Investiture of the Gods has Taigong Wang as the Taoist currently studying under Yuanshi Tianzun and the Twelve Golden Immortals as the 12 disciples who already graduated under Yuanshi Tianzun before Taigong and are full-fledged Xians by the time of the Investiture (the 1100s BC). Not all of them are particularly relevant characters, be it in the actual Investiture or in Houshin Engi.

1) Taiyi Zhenren

About as minor of a character as any of the 12 in the myth, but easily the one with the most screentime in Houshin Engi. Taiyi's main contribution to Taigong's cause was creating the Soul Jewel, which he put inside Li Shi and Li Jing's stillborn baby, allowing Li Nezha to come to life as a living weapon you know from FGO. After Nezha's suicide, Taiyi also arranged Nezha's revival, so he's who FGO blames for Nezha's unfortunate genderbend. Once Nezha is back to life and learns what his father did to his grave, Nezha goes to beat the shit out of his dad, but Taiyi intervenes, capturing Nezha in the Nine-Dragons Divine Fire Basket so he can give him a proper Taoist education and giving Li Jing the means to fight back if Nezha attacks him again (remember that Li Jing is Bishamonten, so the weapon that Taiyi gave him here is actually the pair of towers Kagetora uses on her 3rd Ascension).

2) Yuding Zhenren

Yang Jian's mentor (doubles as Yang Jian's foster father in Houshin Engi). User of the Xian-Slaying Sword. One of the few that gets to be really cool in Houshin Engi but sort of a complete jobber in the original Investiture.

3) Qingxu Daode Zhenjun

Huang Tianhua's mentor. Contrary to Yuding, he's a jobber in the manga but in the myths, he's the one who gets to beat Wang Tianjun, the second-in-command of the Ten Heavenly Lords.

4) Puxian Zhenren

Boddhisattva Samantabhadra's Xian form before he attained Buddhahood. The guy who gets all the homoerotic ship tease with Taigong in Houshin Engi. By Type-Moon's syncretism laws, he's probably the Buddha form of Kouga Saburou.

5) Daoxing Tianzun

Wei Hu's mentor. Comic relief in Houshin Engi. Otherwise irrelevant. Wei Hu himself is pretty irrelevant in the Investiture, but he's known as Skanda in Hindu/Buddhism and is extremely popular in Japan. You might have heard of him before by his Japanese name Idaten.

6) Guang Chengzi

Before being featured in the Investiture of the Gods, this one already had made an appearance in Shenxian Zhuan, where he is portrayed as just a disguise used by Laozi to instruct the Yellow Emperor. But here he's one of Yuanshi Tianzun's apprentices. Does it make sense for Laozi to be Yuanshi Tianzun's pupil? Not much, they should be even-ranked, even if you don't subscribe to the idea that they're the same individual. Maybe it can work if you write him as the first disciple. That said, his combat record fits his possibly Laozi status, having defeated many named enemies including the leader of the Ten Heavenly Lords.

His main role in both the Investiture and its manga counterpart is saving Prince Yin Jiao from Daji by taking him as his Taoist pupil. After training the prince, he lets Jiao return to the world under the condition that he won't betray his mentor to join the war on his father's side. After some tempting words from the villains, Jiao betrays his mentor to join the war on his father's side, so Taigong kills him (what's the best fight in Houshin Engi) but makes him the god of Jupiter under the divine name Taisui Xingjun. Later FGO released Taisui as the cutest event welfare, causing the tragic prince to finally gain Japanese and English Wikipedia pages.

7) Chi Jingzi

The doting mentor of the other rescued prince, Yin Hong. Background character in Houshin Engi but in the Investiture, he gets a decent amount of screentime, which includes a few arcs of invading enemy territory with a lot of powerful Xian treasures, dropping an important one there, needing to invade again to recover the item he forgot there, and then dropping another, rinse repeat. Also when the prince brothers break the promise of not siding with their father in the war, he has a major emotional breakdown and, covered in tears, burns his dear pupil to ashes.

8) Lingbao Dafashi

Actual pack filler. Doesn't do anything notorious in any myth or adaptation. The best I can offer as trivia is that his weapon in Houshin Engi is the Bell of Fallen Souls, which Taisui uses in FGO.

9) Ju Liusun

Buddha Kakusandha's Xian form before he attained Buddhahood. Background jobber in Houshin Engi, but in the Investiture, he wins a major fight and has his own arc about fighting a traitor apprentice but ultimately forgiving and reaccepting his pupil after learning he betrayed because he married a woman on the enemy side. Said redeemed pupil and his wife eventually die anyway in a fight against the same guy who kills Huang Feihu.

10) Wenshu Guangfa Tianzun

Boddhisattva Manjusri's Xian form before he attained Buddhahood. Background jobber in Houshin Engi, and in the Investiture, while he wins a few major fights, he doesn't really get a personal arc. The closest he gets is a small role in Nezha's backstory. It's weird how little Manjusri gets in terms of stories despite being such a popular Boddhisattva.

11) Huanglong Zhenren

If you thought Lingbao Dafashi's situation was dire, you're not prepared for how pitiful Huanglong is. In the Investiture, he's pretty much only there to get his ass kicked by a guy who is not even relevant enough appear in Houshin Engi. In the Houshin Engi manga, he doesn't get a named Paope. In the Houshin Engi artbook, the author gets his name wrong. Dude can't catch a break.

12) Cihang Zhenren

Boddhisattva Avalokitesvara's Xian form before they attained Buddhahood. The same Guanyin that appears as a main character in Journey to the West. The same Kanzeon from the Iori Buddha statues post. They don't do much here outside of some major fights, but that's fine enough when they have so much presence in Journey to the West.

[ruibaozha]

Li Nezha, Protector of the Queer Youth in Taiwan. Part 1.

Hello Tumblr!

I have been hard at work assembling the first few posts for this blog, but I would like to start with something relatively lighthearted. Our topic for today is modern depictions of Li Nezha, or most specifically, Nezha as a queer icon in Taiwan.

In the interest of maintiaining a somewhat steady flow of posts, the original form of this post has been broken up. The following posts will expand on the points made here and additionally will discuss the impact of Nezha in the Taiwanese Queer Film scene and it's possible influence on Nezha (2019).

This is an unexpected angle, but one I dearly want to share. Please continue under 'keep reading' if this also interests you.

Before reading a handful of discomforting topics arise. There is mention of suicide in relation to the original myth, the concept of filial cannibalism in relation to the original myth, and discussion of the AIDS crisis.

I would first like to state that the cultural differences between Taiwan and Mainland China are not many, in several aspects they are the same - barring current geopolitical factors. Many fled Mainland China during 1949, a great deal settling in Taiwan. Naturally they brought their culture and worshipped deities with them, Nezha among the wide range of gods brought.

In more recent times the widespread popularity of Nezha in Taiwan is fascinating, though he may not have as many statues or dedicated temples, his ability to excite the younger generations is unmatched by the rest of his pantheon. Overall, Nezha ranks seventh most popular when measured by publicly available shrines or temples (1). But if we are to measure popularity based on the amount of statues that exist Nezha is only outnumbered by the earth-deity Tudi Gong (2). Thus it is understandable Nezha himself became a reflection of the interests of the youth, especially if one considers his image to be of someone unafraid to challenge authority and those that oppress you.

The idea of a queer Nezha is a fairly novel thing though. 1971 saw the publishing of 'Nezha in the Investiture of the Gods' or Fengshenbang li de Nezha (封神榜裡的哪吒) by Xi Song which served almost to fill in numerous gaps in his personality as well as add a more psychological aspect to his rebellion against his father. The novel introduces the father as extremely strict, his brothers envious of him, and a mother who loves but cannot understand him; our result is a deeply melancholic Nezha who frequently ponders the meanining of his own life (3).

Any semblance of homosexual tendency is largely absent until the end of the novel which coincides with the killing of Ao Bing in the original Canonization of the Gods. Nezha is bathing in the river here as well, except he sees Ao Bing through the water's surface. Nezha wants to reach through the water and hold him, and the two play together for a while before Nezha accidentally kills Ao Bing (4). Rather than be demanded to repent, the Nezha here punishes himself for the accident.

Many films concerning Nezha to this point focused more on martial arts spectacles rather than his temperament and personality. However 1992 saw the release of the film 'Rebels of the Neon God' by Tsai Mingliang, though not adapted from the Nezha origin story, concerns the problem of self-indulgent youth in modern society. Interestingly the Chinese title Qingshaonian Nezha (青少年哪吒), can be read two ways: Young Nezha or The Youth as Nezha.

His (Nezha's) name is mentioned three times over the course of the film. The first instance is when one of the youthful protagonist's (Xiaokang) mother is explaining to her husband their son is so misbehaved because he is the reincarnation of Nezha. The second is when two of the protagonists (Xiaokang and Ah Ze) enter a dispute, one of their motorbikes defaced with the phrase "Nezha was here". The final time is when these same protagonists are lamenting their poor luck and are instructed to worship Nezha.

Being a gay man himself it isn't surprising that the homoeroticism portrayed by Xiaokang is later elaborated upon in Mingliang's 'Vive l'amour' (1994) where the quiet Xiaokang is attracted hopelessly to the rowdy playboy character of Ah Rong, so much so that Xiaokang kisses Ah Rong without his knowledge. It concludes with Xiaokang and his father participating together in a dubious homoerotic setting together before recognizing each other in 'The River' (1997).

These films were released surrounding Tsai Mingliang's 1995 documentary about how the AIDS crisis was wracking Taiwan, and against the director's wishes, Mingliang focused heavily on the gay men the disease was affecting most in an attempt to dispel the misinformation about the disease itself and the gay men it was affecting. The previously mentioned 'Rebels of the Neon God' (1992) only featured one explicit mention of the AIDS crisis, Xiaokang vandalizes the side of Ah Ze's motorcycle in bright yellow paint "AIDS". This action is arguably an allegory of Xiaokang's repressed homosexual desires towards Ah Ze (5), the use of the HIV virus synonymous with homosexual engagement - despite it being well known in 1990's Taiwan that there were multiple modes of transmission.

Of course other interpretations of this scene exist, but for our purposes today, it is not only Xiaokang's projection of his own desires but a very literal representation of the idea of a 'contagion' - or the circumstances that draw previously unrelated individuals together. The vandalism of the motorcycle may also be seen in this light (6).

Is it worth drawing comparisons in assuming Xiaokang and all of his homoerotic tendencies is meant to be a stand-in for Nezha himself? I think so. The film (Rebels of the Neon God) presents numerous cases that enforce this idea if you are not yet convinced.

As previously mentioned Xiaokang's mother states that he is a reincarnation of Nezha, a conclusion she reached after seeing a fortune-teller and told as much. It is important to state that the original myth features a Nezha slicing his flesh open to return to his mother, and removed his bones to return them to his father. At first glance it appears to be a case of filial cannibalism (a post topic I am drafting) meant to strengthen the bond between parent and child - but the purpose within the myth is to sever that relationship completely. It can be argued this very literal severing helped bring Nezha into the hearts of the youth who were alienated.

Xiaokang's mother explains this to her husband upon arriving home, telling her husband that Nezha was said to hate his father Li Jing more than anything else, briefly mentions his surname to also be Li, and outright blames Nezha for Xiaokang's poor relationship with him. Upon overhearing this, Xiaokang pretends to be posessed by Nezha before his father launches a rice bowl at his head. The ambivalence of Nezha 'returning his flesh' seems to almost mirror the animosity Xiaokang and his father have throughout the film.

Even the English title 'Rebels of the Neon God' can be read as sharing homophonic resemblance to the name Nezha. 'Neon God' can be a rereading of 'Nezha' in that the first character of his name can also be pronounced as '-nai' which becomes an exact homophone for the Chinese term for neon, while the second character '-zha' is a suffix that plainly suggests deification.

To wrap up this post I would like to thank you for joining me on this foray of a more modern take on Nezha's significance, his overwhelming modernity carrying numerous modes of importance depending on where you are looking. He has not shed his origin myth, rather it informs how he is percieved more than ever - his severing of paternal ties no longer a case of an unfilial child but of someone standing up for themselves in the face of oppression. And it is perhaps this that makes him so attractive to both the young and old of Taiwan, all subjected to the terror and violence of the Chinese Communist Party.

Thank you once more, and I hope to see you again in part 2.

Citations:

(1) Li Fengmao, “Cong Nezha taizi dao Zhongtan yuanshuai: zhongyang-sifang siwei xiade hujing xiangzheng,” 41–43.

(2) Tsai Wentin, “Taitzu, the Child God,” 53–55.

(3) Xi Song, “Fengshenbang li de Nezha,” 209. A translated portion of Nezha's monologue here is as follows "Oh, Master, my birth is a mistake with no reason at all. Since my childhood, I have understood that I am reared by an overbearing mother and a father with much too high expectations. They seem to have never cared about my actual existence, but intenselyrestrain me with the correct direction of their thinking."

(4) Xi Song, “Fengshenbang li de Nezha,” 217.

(5) Ji Dawei, "Wo kan gu wo zai: chengzhang dianying yu shenfen rentong," 95-105. Dawei's 1996 examination is as follows. "Perhaps Xiaokang resents the fact that Ah Ze is sleeping with a woman, or perhaps he is cursing Ah Ze as homosexual, and thereby taking the identity he himself dislikes, and displacing it onto the figure of the Other. Xiaokang is not sexually active, and therefore he despises those who are and struggles to reject sex altogether. He is terrified he might become a homosexual, and therefore he first verbally attacks others, and then projects onto them the suspicion of homosexuality."

(6) Carlos Rojas, "Nezha Was Here": Structures of Dis/placement in Tsai Ming-liang's "Rebels of the Neon God", 76.

If timestamps for cinematic moments mentioned through this post are requested, I am happy to provide them.

[acoraxia]

Seeing that you mentioned Kui Mulang, the curious thing is that in LMK, Kui Mulang is seen as a kind of devoted husband while in the book he betrays his wife without hesitation (makes me wonder if the writers will play with that, who knows). His wife deserves better.

From what people who have read the books have said, Azure Lion also participated in the war, being a Yaoguai of the Jie Sect.

PLEASE do tell me more about Kui Mulang because I have yet to reach his part in investiture of the gods (apparently he is made a deity by Jiang Ziya after partaking in the Battle of A Thousand Immortals (?)) and I am very very curious about him he seems so hecking neat—also i did NOT read him as a doting husband in LMK i thought he was creepy LMAOJDDKND

It’s the… it’s… the romanticization of waiting for someone over a thousand years and then kidnapping them… against their will… like.. hm. Having knowledge of his kidnapping of his spouse when she becomes a mortal with no previous knowledge of him or their romance and then seeing the show is… funky! So funky! Uhm! Anyway!

I don’t remember seeing anything on Book!Azure Lion partaking in a war… would love to learn more on that.