#investiture of the gods

[ryin-silverfish]

So You Want to Read More about Chinese Mythos: a rough list of primary sources

"How/Where can I learn more about Chinese mythology?" is a question I saw a lot on other sites, back when I was venturing outside of Shenmo novel booksphere and into IRL folk religions + general mythos, but had rarely found satisfying answers.

As such, this is my attempt at writing something past me will find useful.

(Built into it is the assumption that you can read Chinese, which I only realized after writing the post. I try to amend for it by adding links to existing translations, as well as links to digitalized Chinese versions when there doesn't seem to be one.)

The thing about all mythologies and legends is that they are 1) complicated, and 2) are products of their times. As such, it is very important to specify the "when" and "wheres" and "what are you looking for" when answering a question as broad as this.

-Do you want one or more "books with an overarching story"?

In that case, Journey to the West and Investiture of the Gods (Fengshen Yanyi) serve as good starting points, made more accessible for general readers by the fact that they both had English translations——Anthony C. Yu's JTTW translation is very good, Gu Zhizhong's FSYY one, not so much.

Crucially, they are both Ming vernacular novels. Though they are fictional works that are not on the same level of "seriousness" as actual religious scriptures, these books still took inspiration from the popular religion of their times, at a point where the blending of the Three Teachings (Buddhism, Daoism, Confucianism) had become truly mainstream.

And for FSYY specifically, the book had a huge influence on subsequent popular worship because of its "pantheon-building" aspect, to the point of some Daoists actually putting characters from the novel into their temples.

(Vernacular novels + operas being a medium for the spread of popular worship and popular fictional characters eventually being worshipped IRL is a thing in Ming-Qing China. Meir Shahar has a paper that goes into detail about the relationship between the two.)

After that, if you want to read other Shenmo novels, works that are much less well-written but may be more reflective of Ming folk religions at the time, check out Journey to the North/South/East (named as such bc of what basically amounted to a Ming print house marketing strategy) too.

-Do you want to know about the priestly Daoist side of things, the "how the deities are organized and worshipped in a somewhat more formal setting" vs "how the stories are told"?

Though I won't recommend diving straight into the entire Daozang or Yunji Qiqian or some other books compiled in the Daoist text collections, I can think of a few "list of gods/immortals" type works, like Liexian Zhuan and Zhenling Weiye Tu.

Also, though it is much closer to the folk religion side than the organized Daoist side, the Yuan-Ming era Grand Compendium of the Three Religions' Deities, aka Sanjiao Soushen Daquan, is invaluable in understanding the origins and evolutions of certain popular deities.

(A quirk of historical Daoist scriptures is that they often come up with giant lists of gods that have never appeared in other prior texts, or enjoy any actual worship in temples.)

(The "organized/folk" divide is itself a dubious one, seeing how both state religion and "priestly" Daoism had channels to incorporate popular deities and practices into their systems. But if you are just looking at written materials, I feel like there is still a noticeable difference.)

Lastly, if you want to know more about Daoist immortal-hood and how to attain it: Ge Hong's Baopuzi (N & S. dynasty) and Zhonglv Chuandao Ji (late Tang/Five Dynasties) are both texts about external and internal alchemy with English translations.

-Do you want something older, more ancient, from Warring States and Qin-Han Era China?

Classics of Mountains and Seas, aka Shanhai Jing, is the way to go. It also reads like a bestiary-slash-fantastical cookbook, full of strange beasts, plants, kingdoms of unusual humanoids, and the occasional half-man, half-beast gods.

A later work, the Han-dynasty Huai Nan Zi, is an even denser read, being a collection of essays, but it's also where a lot of ancient legends like "Nvwa patches the sky" and "Chang'e steals the elixir of immortality" can be first found in bits and pieces.

Shenyi Jing might or might not be a Northern-Southern dynasties work masquerading as a Han one. It was written in a style that emulated the Classics of Mountains and Seas, and had some neat fantastic beasts and additional descriptions of gods/beasts mentioned in the previous 2 works.

-Do you have too much time on your hands, a willingness to get through lot of classical Chinese, and an obsession over yaoguais and ghosts?

Then it's time to flip open the encyclopedic folklore compendiums——Soushen Ji (N/S dynasty), You Yang Za Zu (Tang), Taiping Guangji (early Song), Yijian Zhi (Southern Song)...

Okay, to be honest, you probably can't read all of them from start to finish. I can't either. These aren't purely folklore compendiums, but giant encyclopedias collecting matters ranging from history and biography to medicine and geography, with specific sections on yaoguais, ghosts and "strange things that happened to someone".

As such, I recommend you only check the relevant sections and use the Full Text Search function well.

Pu Songling's Strange Tales from a Chinese Studios, aka Liaozhai Zhiyi, is in a similar vein, but a lot more entertaining and readable. Together with Yuewei Caotang Biji and Zi Buyu, they formed the "Big Three" of Qing dynasty folktale compendiums, all of which featured a lot of stories about fox spirits and ghosts.

Lastly...

The Yuan-Ming Zajus (a sort of folk opera) get an honorable mention. Apart from JTTW Zaju, an early, pre-novel version of the story that has very different characterization of SWK, there are also a few plays centered around Erlang (specifically, Zhao Erlang) and Nezha, such as "Erlang Drunkenly Shot the Demon-locking Mirror". Sadly, none of these had an English translation.

Because of the fragmented nature of Chinese mythos, you can always find some tidbits scattered inside history books like Zuo Zhuan or poetry collections like Qu Yuan's Chuci. Since they aren't really about mythology overall and are too numerous to cite, I do not include them in this post, but if you wanna go down even deeper in this already gigantic rabbit hole, it's a good thing to keep in mind.

[jellytheteawolf]

Go my scarabs

Guess who made opera designs again bc I'm a one trick pony when it comes to fanart /lhj

I'm actually quite proud of these bc I feel like my design skills have improved; these are a lot more detailed compared to my swk/macaque opera designs

Anygays yea I still haven't recovered from nezha 2 and probably won't

And ao bing design notes

Was too lazy to make a design notes sheet for nezha but basically

Warned to combine the strength/power of bigzha with the elegance of the 79 nezha -> ended up with li yunxiang?????

Lots of lotus and fire imagery cause like. Gestures at him.

Dialogue from the 79 animation (slightly altered) w opera designs (made before I finalized either of them)

"Who was it that fought the sea yaksha?"

"It was this young master, chengtang guan li jing's son, ne zha!"

[monkeyzilla]

Shithead number 1 and shithead number 2

[spoilersbutinaccurate]

Master and Disciple cont.

Pt.1 | Pt.2

[yunsound]

Chinese Mythology: Investiture of the Gods and the Heavenly Court

If there is one piece of literature that can define the mythology of an entire culture, what would that be? The Bible? The Homeric Epics? The Vedas?

None of these works can encompass an entire pantheon or mythological universe. Similarly, Chinese mythology does not rely purely on Journey to the West. Two other pillars of mythology are the 封神演义

and the 山海经 (the Classic of Mountains and Seas), an old National Geography magazine with lots of myths thrown in.

There are many, many more ancient and famous works, but these three are generally very widely-known. 

I’ll be focusing on the Fengshen Yanyi (Romance of the Investiture of the Gods, or just Investiture of the Gods in general). BTW, investiture means something like inauguration, deification or promotion in case it’s an unfamiliar word.

The Fengshen Yanyi

I covered this one very briefly in my Ne Zha post, linked here, but Fengshen Yanyi was a novel written in the 16th century by Xu Zhonglin.

It chronicled (in a fantastical manner, of course) the war between the King of Shang

and the eventual King of Zhou

It’s treated very much like the Trojan War, in which different gods assist in the battle, and incorporates many classic Chinese heroes.

Since it was written fairly recently by Chinese standards (only a few hundred years ago as opposed to a few thousand years ago), it’s become one of the main sources of information on mythology and the characters within it. 

The Zhou/Shang battle itself occurred over 3000 years ago, in 1056 BCE, and lasted some fifty years. 

It’s fairly impossible to cover the events of the novel in a single post since that would be the longest post in Tumblr history, but I will only cover its premise, not its plot. Honestly, I’m not even clear on the exact details of the plot of Fengshen myself, since it’s so long and complicated.

Chinese mythology is incredibly complicated. Even the most widely-accepted versions of myths are almost guaranteed to be inaccurate to their original versions thousands of years ago. Dates, times and who’s who are impossible to determine. As such, take what I say with a grain of salt, and do your own research, as painful as it may be. This is only meant to give an idea of what’s going on.

Additionally, the Fengshen Yanyi (also called the Fengshen Bang, or Deification List/Plaque), is just a novel. Think of it as a historical fantasy novel, or the Lord of the Rings Plus. It may be very foundational today, but it’s not the end-all-be-all of mythology. This is also true for Journey to the West, which is a fictional tale!

After all that preamble, let’s begin.

___

So, the highest official is the Haotian Emperor 昊天大帝. He’s the head honcho of the Heavenly Court.

I couldn't find any pictures of the Haotian Emperor (in popular culture he's usually depicted as young and hot, unlike the Jade Emperor, who's usually depicted as an old dude). As I mentioned in my Ne Zha post, it's debated whether or not the Haotian Emperor and the Jade Emperor are the same person.

I will assume them to be different people even though it's like 60% sure they're the same person, since I already referred to the Emperor in my Ne Zha post as the Jade Emperor. As such, Haotian Emperor is higher-ranked than the Jade Emperor, who works for Haotian.

Again! Time for a SUPER LONG backstory that is essential but also not ENTIRELY relevant to the actual plot of Fengshen. Think of this as a description of how the Fengshen Yanyi happened, or like historical background behind a war.

The Heavenly Court, rather than being a loose collection of gods with one ruler like in Greco-Roman mythology, is a proper government, with bureaus, supervisors, and minimum wage office workers. As such, it’s not exactly super desirable to work for the Heavenly Court.

Sure, you get to be a god, but it’s also the equivalent of working a cubicle job for eternity. You’re also a very lowly god: most heavenly officials aren’t powerful, just old: you could even get your ass kicked by a random monkey (foreshadowing). 

Not fun.

The Haotian Emperor is feeling a little lonely and overworked. He thinks there’s not enough workers in the Heavenly Court, so he wants to do some hiring (more on this later! Keep this part in mind.)

Who’s currently up in Heaven? Well, in Daoist mythology, the Dao created one, one created two, two created three, and three created everything (道生一，一生二，二生三，三生万物). What this means is that the Dao created the foundations of the world: the Three Pure Ones, three super-old super-powerful immortals.

These three super powerful immortals are as follows:

元始天尊 Yuanshi Tianzun, or Primordial Heavenly Lord

This is him in Ne Zha 1 (2019).

After he was created, he oversaw and supervised the creation of everything else. 

灵宝天尊 Lingbao Tianzun, or Treasured Heavenly Lord

Lingbao Tianzun was created from Yuanshi Tianzun. 

道德天尊/太上老君 Daode Tianzun (Virtuous Lawful Heavenly Lord) or Taishang Laojun (High Elder Lord)

The reason he has two names is because it’s unknown if Taishang Laojun and Daode Tianzun are the same person by different names: the answer is probably, but not 100%. He is the oldest, most powerful one. He is also considered to be Lao Zi (Lao Tsu), the founder of Daoism (I sometimes switch between Daoism and Taoism, but they’re the same thing).

In the above picture, Daode Tianzun is on the left, Yuanshi Tianzun is in the middle, Lingbao Tianzun is on the right. Yuanshi and Lingbao look very similar, but you can always identify Daode since he's the oldest one so he's the only one with white hair.

However, these three, despite being at the centre of everything, are not the most powerful. Chinese mythology and Daoism are messy. Stay with me: I promise I’m getting to the actual explanation of the Fengshen Yanyi soon.

The Creation Spirit created more beings before these three pure ones. One of these beings is called 鸿钧老祖 Hongjun Laozu, or Grandmaster of Eternal Balance

Could not find a picture of him, so just imagine a super old guy with big fancy robes.

(There is another one of these beings called Nuwa, the mother of all: she essentially sculpted humans out of clay. Keep her in mind, she’s important).

This is Nuwa! Technically her name is Nüwa, it's pronounced Nyoo Wah.

He takes three disciples: the Three Pure Ones, Yuanshi Tianzun, Lingbao Tianzun, and Daode Tianzun. 

Sometimes, these three disciples are Yuanshi Tianzun, Lingbao Tianzun, and another guy called 通天教主 Tongtian Jiaozhu (Teacher of All Through Heaven, or Grandmaster of Heaven). Tongtian Jiaozhu is the one that appears in Investiture of the Gods.

Yuanshi Tianzun and Daode Tianzun (Lao Zi) create the 阐教, or the Chan Sect to teach Taoism their way. The features of the Chan Sect are that there is no one leader- Yuanshi Tianzun and Lao Zi both teach the sect, they pick their disciples very strictly and only choose the best of the best, and every single disciple must follow strict rules and live very properly.

Fun fact: I’m sure you’ve heard of the concept of Zen. Zen is just the Japanese pronunciation of Chan: Chan Buddhism (or Zen) is the most widely-practised version today.

However, Tongtian Jiaozhu creates his own sect instead of the Chan Sect because he doesn’t like the prim and proper way they do things. His sect is called the 截教 or Jie Sect. His sect takes in all manners of people under the sun and is less proper, but also smaller than the Chan Sect. 

Why do I even mention these 2 sects? Well, in Investiture of the Gods, the main conflict is between King of Shang and King of Zhou (who wants to overthrow him since King Shang is a tyrannical brutal ruler), right?

Nope! In fact, it’s really more of a conflict between the Jie and Chan sects. The Zhou/Shang war is more of an excuse to go to war. The Jie fight for the King of Shang, and the Chan fight for the rebellion (for the eventual King of Zhou).

Why use the Zhou/Shang war? Well, the King of Shang kind of sucks, so people want a way to get rid of him. Remember Nuwa, the mother goddess who created humans? She also, by the way, made pillars to hold up heaven, so she’s a big deal.

Well, the King of Shang goes to her temple to worship but gets sloppy drunk and hits on a statue of her. This is like the equivalent of Trump (or *Insert World Leader*, I guess, depends on your politics) sending a tweet saying he’s going to fuck the Virgin Mary. The King of Shang leaves a sex poem about Nuwa on the wall of her temple.

Nuwa sees this and gets super mad. She summons a 1000-year-old nine-tailed fox spirit. Fox spirits are generally seen as promiscuous sexual spirits, who disguise themselves as beautiful women and bewitch men to bring about the downfall of dynasties.

Nuwa tells the fox spirit that if she can bring down the Shang dynasty, she’ll make her immortal. (In the novel she sends two other spirits as well, one a spirit of a pipa, which is an instrument, and the other a spirit of a nine-headed pheasant, but these two aren’t as important as Daji, and they both get discovered and executed anyway).

This is the Zhiji Jing (Pheasant Spirit)

This is the Pipa Jing (Pipa Spirit), ignore the watermark, I copied this from Google. Pipa is almost like a Chinese cross between a guitar and violin. It's a very elegant and beautiful sounding instrument.

This is Daji, accompanied by a photo of the actress who plays Daji in the recent Fengshen movie series. The movies are a solid 7.5/10, pretty good but not SPECTACULAR, but Na Ran's acting as Daji is amazing. She also happens to be gorgeous!

Sweet deal! The fox agrees and disguises herself as a gorgeous war prize taken by the King of Shang. The body she inhabits is called Su Daji, who is the daughter of one of the regional lords conquered by the King of Shang. 

In the original tale, Su Daji’s father (this story is a little muddled, so read this part with a big maybe) gifts her to the King of Shang to appease him. Asshole dad. 

Another version is that Su Daji is sent away by her father for her safety and kills herself to avoid being taken as a concubine by the King of Shang- very unfortunately for her, the fox spirit inserts herself into her body to bewitch the King. (Fox spirits are generally cruel, and it’s a huge dick move to have someone use your body to sleep with your biggest opp).

When Daji arrives, she immediately catches King of Shang’s attention. He becomes absolutely bewitched by her, and spends so much time, money and thought on her that he neglects his state and begins ruling with a tyrannical iron fist. Daji, since she’s really a fox spirit, is cruel and sadistic, and invents a number of scary torture devices to torture King of Shang’s opps. 

You can Google these devices yourself. A little gruesome to repeat.

One of the most famous parts of the Fengshen Yanyi is what’s called the Deer Pavilion 鹿台, which is an example of the ostentatious and luxurious nature of the acts King of Shang did for Daji.

In the Deer Pavilion, the King of Shang builds a lake filled with good wine and constructs a forest of meat for him and Daji to lounge in. Wine pool meat forest 酒池肉林 (jiu chi rou lin) is now a Chinese saying for excessive extravagance.

The entire nation is super, super mad at the King of Shang and Daji, and decides to revolt against them. This rebellion is led by Ji Fa (the eventual King of Zhou) and Jiang Ziya, his tactician (think of Jiang Ziya as Odysseus: the clever, capable and clear-headed strategist). BTW Jiang Ziya is Ji Fa’s father-in-law, so it’s not exactly an Agamemnon-Odysseus relationship.

OKAY!!!

Remember when I said the Haotian Emperor was feeling a little lonely up in heaven and wanted some workers? Feels like a century ago. 

The three immortals in charge of the Chan and Jie sects (Yuanshi Tianzun and Lao Zi for the Chan sect, and Tongtian Jiaozhu for the Jie sect) decide they’re going to make what’s called a Fengshen Bang. 

Roll credits!

Just kidding. You wish.

As I said, Fengshen Bang means Deification Plaque, or a less proper translation is just List of Gods to Promote. What are the contents of this Fengshen Bang?

Remember when I said working for the Haotian Emperor isn’t exactly a good thing? In fact, it kind of sucks. The prerequisite for getting more workers in heaven is that whoever goes to work for the emperor has to die first and spend the rest of eternity working a cubicle job if they suck and if they’re powerful they end up like a special ops force, just with no glory or money. Who TF wants to do that?

Think of the Fengshen Bang as the Death Note of ancient China. The Haotian Emperor and the three immortal sect masters can tell that a bunch of people are going to die in the upcoming Zhou/Shang war, so they decide that whoever dies in the war will get their name put on the Fengshen Bang and die. 

There’s another interpretation that they just put a whole bunch of names on the Fengshen Bang before the war and whoever manages to not die gets their name taken off.

It can also be interpreted as Santa Yagami’s naughty list: whoever misbehaves gets their name put on as well.

Either way, it’s functionally the same: no one wants their name written down on that list!!

The two sects both don’t want their disciples to die and leave their sect weakened in comparison, so they go home to tell their disciples, listen up and don’t cause any trouble.

The war isn’t that long compared to the life of a cultivator (functionally immortal compared to only 50 years of war) so as long as you keep your head down and manage to survive you’ll be okay.

However, there’s this one dude: his name is 申公豹 Shen Gong Bao (Panther Elder Shen, where Shen is just his last name) and he got kicked out of the Chan sect for being an asshole. He’s also a panther spirit. (You may remember him from Ne Zha 1 and 2 if you watched it!)

This is a carving of Shen Gong Bao as well as his appearance in Ne Zha 1 and 2 (2019 and 2025 movies).

He decides he’s going to get some revenge on the Chan sect, so he tells everyone in the Jie sect that working for the King of Shang (remember, asshole dictator) is great: he treats all his subordinates really well, and that his bad reputation is just the Chan sect being stuffy old dudes. He wants the Jie sect to go fight for the asshole King of Shang against the Chan sect.

About half of the Jie disciples are dumb, and think that sounds great! So they descend from their halls and go to find the King of Shang.

Jiang Ziya, the rebellion tactician, anticipated this, and dispatched half the Chan forces to go help fight. The Jie disciples get their asses beat and all die.

This is a painting of Jiang Ziya. Don't question why his forehead is bulging out Megamind-style: that's just his big brain.

This is Jiang Ziya in the Jiang Ziya animated movie (2020) set in the same cinematic universe as the two Ne Zha movies. This movie kind of flopped, but I like the character design at least.

The other half of the Jie sect is like, how dare you try to beat us up! They all go down from their halls to go fight the Chan sect for revenge. Jiang Ziya prepares his troops very well, so the other half of the Jie sect gets their asses beat as well.

Oops! Now the Jie sect ends up functionally all on the Fengshen Bang. Since the Chan sect suffered losses as well, about a third of their newest group of disciples all die as well. 

The Haotian Emperor is happy to have an army of minions, everyone else is not happy. 

I’m assuming Tongtian Jiaozhu is really fucking mad that his disciples are all idiots, but now 90% of his sect is super, super dead and working depressing government cubicle jobs (the ones that are better trained are doing special ops work).

By the way, remember Ne Zha? After he killed himself graphically and was revived, he survived the entire time and ascended to an immortal to work as a marshall in Heaven.

Working in Heaven is bad if you’re forced to through dying: if you ascend to immortality through cultivation, you’re super powerful and it’s actually a great job.

So Ne Zha is having a great time absolutely smashing up the Jie sect and King of Shang’s forces. Also in Heaven working cushy great jobs are Ne Zha’s asshole dad Li Jing (now ascended to a deity, the Pagoda-Bearing Lord), Ne Zha’s two brothers Jin Zha and Mu Zha, and Erlang Shen (who I will cover in a different post).

These are all “good guys” on the side of the Chan, so they fight against the dictator King of Shang.

Essentially, the story of the Fengshen Yanyi is about a bunch of guys trying very hard not to catch Heavenly Lord Yagami’s attention and end up on the Death Note. However, since most of them are dumb, they fail anyway.

[lyon-77]

Uploading some GIFs from New Gods: Yang Jian

Also, I've been wanting to clarify that Erlang Shen, as a warrior god rooted in the Chinese intellectual tradition, doesn't align with modern Western notions of warrior heroes as either glory seekers or guilt-ridden pacifists.

Erlang Shen is traditionally portrayed as an unwavering and ruthless warrior, but his actions are not driven by a quest for honor or personal glory. Instead, his role in war stems from a sense of duty to protect and to restore lasting peace. There is a tragic awareness of the cost of war—not guilt for those he defeats, but sorrow for the disruption it brings to the world and the suffering it inflicts on individuals, families, and humanity as a whole.

I really appreciate it when modern animation stays true to Erlang's fierce resolve and deep compassion, depicting them with subtlety consistent with the traditional view that war, while sometimes an unfortunate necessity, is always a solemn and regrettable means to achieve harmony

[m0dernchr0n1cles]

Have you read this unfinished comic?

https://x.com/oubing_bot/status/1354538287839510529

It's really sad. With Nezha losing his memories of his past and his relationship with Ao Bing. Making Nezha the now "perfect" warrior of heaven and have new friends.

And Ao Bing gets left behind and forgotten 😢 and this is here the idea comes. That He gets threaten to not interact with the Marshal and without Nezha. Who was the one who helped him with his self-esteem and being his support not being there. And to make it worse. He is not in fighting condition after what happened during the war.

He might be attacked by the Dragon Clan. Who wants to punish him for going against the Clan in the past.

Yeah, I read it, and it provided some inspiration for my Black Myth, New Gods story.

Honestly, it's so sad especially with how Ao Bing, a victim of child abuse, is now a victim of workplace abuse.

He's finally gotten what he's always "wanted", what he was told was his destiny, and... nothing. There is no satisfaction, only more discrimination and punishment.

And the only friend he ever had, the one person who can anchor him, doesn't remember him. Worse, his best friend has replaced him with more "appropriate" company for his new social standing.

I will make a post about how BMNG!Ao Bing was affected by this and how this impacts his arc

[digitalagepulao]

Prodigal son terror

Li Jing in a fury grabbed his halberd, leapt on his horse and galloped out of the headquarters. He was astonished to see Nezha with his Wind-Fire Wheels and Fire-Tipped Spear. He swore loudly, "You damned beast! You caused us endless suffering before your death, and now that you've been reborn, you're troubling us again!"

"Li Jing! I've returned my flesh and bones to you, and there's no longer any relation between us. Why did you smash my golden idol with your whip and burn down my temple? Today I must take my revenge!"

since I'm on a Nezha streak, might as well do my design for him on the Expedition AU! given that i've chosen to give characters a closer likeness to their region, it's only fitting i do the same with import deities like Guanyin, Subodhi and Nezha.

he's a complicated figure to place in the timeline because he gained popularity as a deity much after, only really arriving in China by the time the Journey would have been set. FSYY was written closer to when JTTW was written down, and he was retroactively inserted on the Zhou Dynasty period.

so deciding what to even do with him is dicey. but then i said fuck it, mythological rules apply here, he was around for the events of FSYY, and it and JTTW are set in the same universe. and for the sake of having some fun, i decided to get funky with his concept.

Nezha had the likeness of his family when he was alive, as described in FSYY, but once he was reborn with a lotus body he gained Indian traits instead. this is to be a nod to his status as an import deity and his origin as Nalakubara, and as the centuries roll by he may present himself to mortals closer to the locals' appearance wise.

as for his looks, i drew inspiration from multiple sources. read more for my rambles <3

his armor is closer to reconstructions of Zhou dynasty-period armor, skipping over extra parts simply because his lotus body is so indestructible, there's no need for a full set;

there are two red Chinese knots with jade beads dangling from the armor ties. they are said to ward off evil spirits, which felt like a good fit for a guy known to banish demons. i picked a six-petal flower pattern, which represents reunion, unity and a bright future;

i included lotus petals and leaves on his outfit as they are common in Beijing Opera outfits for him, and his makeup is a call to it as well;

The pink from the cheeks and eyeshadow seeps into his ear shell, as to convey the way sometimes, you get so angry even your ears blush;

Another thing i referenced from Opera is the two red ribbons on his sidelocks, though I changed them to two bulbs of lotus roots;

Four petals drawn close to his urna as both to make it look like a lotus but also form five petals, which is an auspicious number;

His hair crown is a fancy princely [knot] with a lotus motif and a pearl in the center, as he was the Pearl Spirit before becoming Nezha;

I was going to go with elf-like ears but I thought I could do better, so I went for stretched earlobes instead. you can't see it that well but hopefully the very large golden earrings imply it well enough xvx;

His cheek dimples are common sight on religious images of him and it was a cute touch imo;

Younger Nezha wears a golden robe because of his title as General of the Central Altar in Daoist belief, and the center direction is connected to yellow or gold, and yellow robes are usually meant for emperors and their sons, which is a minor nod to his self-assureness and boldness;

The Cosmic Ring has spiralling grooves on it both to catch blades on it for defense but also as a callback to Opera props;

On his waist is the embroidered ball weapon he was attributed with in earlier myths, he was also meant to have the leopard skin bag Taiyi Zhenren gave him, bjt it was going to be obscured by the text so i omitted it;

A few depictions of him gave him a halo of fire, which was real cool so i added it as well.

[journeytothewestresearch]

How to Kill Sun Wukong

Have you ever wondered what it would take to kill Sun Wukong? My new article describes a ritual borrowed from Investiture of the Gods (Fengshen yanyi, 封神演義, c. 1620) that would certainly kill our hero. It involves a secret, spiritual assault from a distance. That way, the villain doesn't have to worry about getting smashed into hamburger or ripped to shreds by an angry monkey immortal.

The ritual steals an immortal's spirit, tethers it to a straw effigy, and then kills the target by shooting the effigy in the eyes and heart with arrows.

[quitealotofsodapop]

Celestial Water Monkeys

Was discussing in the notes of this post with @silverlycanthropelover about the possibility of Celestial/Stone Monkeys surviving the Great Flood by adapting to the sea.

One of the jokes is that "Sea Monkeys" (the frozen brine shrimp toy), are actually a misunderstanding of sea dragon records talking about the little mer-monkeys that inhabited their seas.

Basically

Ao Guang: "What are those things hiding in your mane?" Ao Shun, surrounded by tiny mermaid-like monkeys: "I dunno man, they just showed up one day, and they won't stop picking through my fur." Ao Guang: "Why haven't you scared them off?" Ao Shun: "Honestly? They are pretty adorable. They clean my body of parasites, and comfort me when I'm feeling unwell." Sea Monkeys: (*happy chirping + porpoise-like squeaks!*) Ao Guang: "They do seem very useful... How do I go about hiring them?" Ao Shun: "I believe you cannot choose them brother, they choose you." (*cut to hundreds of years later when Ao Guang is lying at the bottom of the East Sea, despaired at the loss of his youngest pup Ao Bing*) Sea Monkeys: "Chirrp?" Ao Guang: (*looks up to see a swarm of brightly-coloured mer-monkeys, all swimming around his gigantic body as they pick off the barnacles and parasites that settled in his depression.*) Leading Sea Monkey, petting the king dragon's face with sympathy in their eyes: "Chirrrrp." Ao Guang: (*smiles for the first time in weeks*) :')

Like pilot fish to a great white, the smaller creatures stick to dragons in a symbiotic relationship. The royal dragons are very protective of their monkeys. Ao Guang refuses to acknowledge the irony of a Stone Monkey being one of his greatest annoyances, whilst tending to his beloved servants.

Wukong has no idea that these little spiritual monkeys exist! To think that some Stone/Spiritual Monkeys survived the Great Flood by changing their whole biology, or existed even beforehand, is an amazing discovery!

The Water Monkeys are a lot smaller than Wukong or Macaque, being roughly the size of tamarins. They don't speak "human" languages very well, their vocal cords are more attuned to the calls of dragons and other sea life. They can still chirp and chatter as monkeys do, allowing for some delightful conversation between the Stone Monkey King (they do not recognise Sun Wukong as their king) and the school of excited fairy-like monkeys.

[ryin-silverfish]

One nerd's musing about Chinese religion and "respect"

-I try to stay away from fandom discourse, but, much like how you can smell the stench from a dumpster fire without walking into said dumpster fire, I've noticed something that seemed to come up a lot in western JTTW + adjacent fandoms: "respect Chinese religion".

-Usually as a reason for why you shouldn't ship a character, because of fucking course it's shipping discourse too.

-And my first reaction is "Man, you are taking Chinese religion too darn seriously, more than people who are born and raised in China."

-My second reaction is "I mean, most of us are atheist/agnostic by default anyways, with a good number of what I'd call 'atheist/agnostics with superstitions': people who said they were not religious, yet believed in Fengshui or divinations and burnt incense at temples for good luck."

-My third reaction: "But why do I get the feeling that when you mention 'Respect', you are thinking about something completely different?"

-Then I reread an essay from Anthony C. Yu, "Religion and Literature in China: The "Obscure Way" of Journey to the West", and the metaphorical lightbulb just lit up over my head.

(Everything below applies more to Daoism + associated folk religions, but by the time most classic Chinese vernacular novels were written, the blending of the three religions had become well and truly mainstream.)

(The conception of gods differs from dynasty to dynasty. What I'm describing here is mostly based on Ming and Qing ones; if you went back to Han or pre-Qin times, most of these would not apply.)

(I am one of the "atheist/agnostic by default" people. I just have an interest in this kind of stuff. I am also just one Chinese person, and an actual Daoist/Buddhist/Religion Studies researcher would probably have a lot more valuable information and perspective to offer when it comes to contemporary practices and worship. Like any people on the internet: take my words with a grain of salt.)

-Even in the past, when society was far less secularized, Chinese gods are not omniscient, perfect beings whose worship is a solemn, humorless affair. Some's worship are Serious Business, but that has more to do with the sort of gods they are and the patronage they enjoy, not godhood in and of itself.

-And even the ones that you are supposed to "treat seriously" are still very human. To use an analogy I've used plenty of times before: you respect and fear them in the same way you'd respect and fear an emperor's official, or the emperor himself, because if you don't, you are not gonna like the consequences.

-However, unlike Jesus, the emperor & his officials were capable of being temperamental, flawed, or an outright asshole, divine or not. Ideally, they wouldn't be, and if you were one of the "serious" believers——people who actually got an official permit, became ordained clergy, and went to live in a temple, you were unlikely to think of your gods in that manner.

-But it wasn't a complete, utter impossibility. The lower you go in the pantheon, the closer you get to popular religion, the less "serious" the gods and their worship become. By that, I mean general attitude, not sincerity of faith. You still shouldn't be rude to them, but, well, they are more likely to take a joke in stride, or participate in the "vulgar" pleasures of commoners because they weren't as bound to Confucian moral standards or religious disciplines.

-To stretch the same analogy further: you should still respect your village head, they could still give your ass a good spanking for being a disrespectful brat, but you were not obligated to get on your knees and kowtow to them like you would do in front of a provincial magistrate, the emperor's minister, or the emperor himself, nor did they have the power to chop your head off just because you were rude.

-On the other hand, the emperor would never visit a random peasant just to help them fix their broken plow or treat them to a nice meal, but your village head could, and your relationship would probably be warmer and a lot more personal as a result.

-Your respect for them was more likely to stem from the things they actually did for you and the village as a whole, instead of something owed to this distant, powerful authority you might never get to see in your lifetime, but could change its course with a single stroke of a brush.

-Now exchange "village head" for your run-of-the-mill Tudis and Chenghuangs and friendly neighborhood spirits (because yes, people worshipped yaoguais for the exact same reasons), emperor + his officials for the Celestial Bureaucracy, and you'd have a basic idea of how Chinese religions worked on the ground level.

-This is far from absolute: maybe your village head was a spiteful old bastard who loved bullying his juniors, maybe your regional magistrate was an honest, upright man who could enjoy a good drink and a good laugh, maybe the emperor was a lenient one and wouldn't chop your head off for petty offenses. But their general degree of power over you and the closeness of your relationships still apply.

-Complicating the matter further, some folk gods (like Wutong) were worshipped not because they brought blessings, but because they were the divine equivalent of gangsters running a protection racket: you basically bribed them with offerings so they'd leave you alone and not wreck your shit. Famous people who died violently and were posthumously deified often fell into this category——shockingly enough, Guan Yu used to be one such god!

-Yeah, kinda like how your average guy could become an official through the imperial examinations, so could humans become gods through posthumous worship, or cultivate themselves into immortals and Enlightened beings.

-Some immortals aren't qualified for, or interested in a position in the Celestial Bureaucracy——they are the equivalent of your hermits, your cloistered Daoist priests, your common literati who kept trying and failing the exams. But some do get a job offer and gladly take it.

-Anyways, back to my original point: that's why it's so absurd when people pull the "Respect Chinese Religion1!!1!" card and immediately follow up with "Would you do X to Jesus?"

-Um, there are a lot of things you can do with Chinese gods that I'm pretty sure you can't do with Jesus. Like worshipping him side by side with Buddha and Confucius (Lao Tzu). Or inviting him to possess you and drink copious amount of alcohol (Tang-ki mediums in SEA). Or genderbend him into a woman over the course of several centuries because folks just like that version of Jesus better (Guan Yin/Avalokitesvara).

-But most importantly, Chinese religions are kinda a "free market" where you could pick and choose between gods, based on their vicinity to you and how efficient they were at answering prayers. You respect them because they'll help you out, you aren't an asshole and know your manners, and pissing them off is a bad idea in general, not because they are some omnipotent, perfect beings who demand exclusive and total reverence.

-A lot of the worship was also, well, very "practical" and almost transactional in nature: leave offerings to Great Immortal Hu, and he doesn't steal your imperial seal while you aren't looking. Perform the rites right and meditate on a Thunder General's visage, and you can temporarily channel said deity's power. Get this talisman for your kids at Bixia Yuanjun's temple, and they'll be protected from smallpox.

-"Faith alone" or "Scripture alone" is seldom the reason people worship popular deities. Even the obsession with afterlife wasn't about the eternal destination of your soul, and more about reducing the potential duration of the prison sentence for you and your loved ones so you can move on faster and reincarnate into a better life.

-Also, there isn't a single "canon" of scriptures. Many popular gods don't show up in Daoist literature until much later. Daoist scriptures often came up with their own gigantic pantheons, full of gods no one had heard of prior to said book, or enjoyed no worship in temples whatsoever.

-In the same way famous dead people could become gods via worship, famous fictional characters could, too, become gods of folk religion——FSYY's pantheon was very influential on popular worship, but that doesn't mean you should take the novels as actual scriptures.

-Like, God-Demon novels are to orthodox Daoism/Buddhism what the Divine Comedy is to medieval Christian doctrines, except no priests had actually built a Church of Saint Beatrice, while Daoists did put FSYY characters into their temples. By their very nature, the worship that stemmed from these books is not on the same level of "seriousness" as, say, the Tiantai school of Buddhism and their veneration of the Lotus Sutra.

-At the risk of being guilty of the same insertion of Christianity where it doesn't belong: You don't cite Dante's Inferno in a theological debate, nor would any self-respecting pastor preach it to churchgoers on a Sunday.

-Similarly, you don't use JTTW or FSYY as your sole evidence for why something is "disrespectful to Chinese religion/tradition" when many practitioners of said religions won't treat them as anything more than fantasy novels.

-In fact, let's use Tripitaka as an example. The historical Xuanzang was an extraordinarily talented, faithful, and determined monk. In JTTW, he was a caricature of a Confucian scholar in a Buddhist kasaya and served the same narrative function as Princess Peach in a Mario game.

-Does the presence of satire alone make JTTW anti-Buddhist, or its religious allegories less poignant? I'd say no. Should you take it as seriously as actual Buddhist sutras, when the book didn't even take itself 100% seriously? Also no.

-To expand further on the idea of "seriousness": even outside of vernacular novels, practitioners are not beholden to a universal set of strict religious laws and taboos.

-Both Daoism and Buddhism had what we called "cloistered" and "non-cloistered" adherents; only the former needed to follow their religious laws and (usually) took a vow of celibacy.

-Certain paths of Daoist cultivation allow for alcohol and sexual activities (thanks @ruibaozha for the info), and some immortals, like Lv Dongbin, had a well-established "playboy" reputation in folklore.

-Though it was rarer for Buddhism and very misunderstood, esoteric variants of it did utilize sexual imageries and sex. And, again, most of the above would not apply if you weren't among the cloistered and ordained clergy.

-Furthermore, not even the worship of gods is mandatory! You could just be a Daoist who was really into internal alchemy, cultivating your body and mind in order to prolong your lifespan and, ideally, attain immortality.

-This idea of "respect" as…for a lack of better words, No Fun & R18 Stuff Allowed, you must treat all divinity with fearful reverence and put yourself completely at their mercy, is NOT the norm in Chinese religious traditions.

-There are different degrees and types of respect, and not every god is supposed to be treated like the Supreme Heavenly Emperor himself during an imperial ceremony; the gods are capable of cracking a joke, and so are we!

TL;DR: Religions are complicated, and you aren't respecting Chinese religions by acting like a stereotypical Puritan over popular Chinese deities and their fictional portrayals.

[mythologyfolklore]

Buddha of Sandalwood Merit: Ah, yes. Here we have a beautiful couple... Nézhā: I really care about your feelings! Áo Bĭng: I really care about YOUR feelings! Buddha of Sandalwood Merit, turning his head: ... and then there's the disaster couple... Buddha Victorious in Strife: YOU NEED TO PAY MORE ATTENTION TO ME INSTEAD OF BEING AT THE HOSPITAL! Èrláng Shén: I WOULDN'T HAVE TO SPEND SO MUCH TIME AT THE HOSPITAL, IF YOU STOPPED INSISTING ON FIGHTING EVERYONE WHO COMES WITHIN A FIVE FOOT RADIUS OF YOU!

[monkeyzilla]

The baddest diva in all of China

[passions-and-pupils]

I love the idea of a Nezha retelling instead of being told like a myth it’s told like fiction, putting more focus on how it would actually feel to be in these situations.

I want to see Li Jing come to terms with the fact that his youngest son, his baby boy, ripped out the spine of a dragon prince with his bare hands. I want to see the horror on his face as he stands face to face with a dragon king and realizes that Nezha has doomed them all.

I want to see Nezha throw a tantrum (like any child his age would) screaming that it wasn’t fair, that he shouldn’t be punished for defending himself.

I want to see Lady Yin make a temple for her baby and I want to see her cry as her husband burns it to the ground

I want to see Nezha as both a hero and a monster, reconstructed as a zombie made of lotus and spite, riding on wheels of fire towards the father who now refused to call him son, who let him sacrifice himself when he was far to young to understand the weight of his actions. Who shunned him when all he needed was a father to tell him what to do and how to fix it.

I want to see Nezha’s story as not a tale of Confucianism or heroics, but as a cruel reminder of what happens when we give children the power and responsibilities of adults.

Or maybe I should write it myself

[spoilersbutinaccurate]

Master and Disciple

Pt.1 | Pt.2

[singlebraincelledgoat]

FSYY concept art

Wanna know what the definition of insanity is? Trying to figure out what over 350+ characters look like in an ancient Chinese novel cause oh my god why are there so many characters how did anyone keep track of them

Anyways, I’m slowly but surely making it down the roster

Starting with one of my niche favorites from this novel, Lei Zhenzi. That one guy who ate the apricots that happened to turn you into a thunder bird

In a lot of modern adaptations, he’s more monstrous in his looks and personality. I’ve watched a movie where he was basically China’s version of the Hulk (it’s called The First Myth Clash of Gods. Not the best movie but it’s a huge guilty pleasure to me I love it lol)

He’s not like that in the book at all, in fact he’s kinda a fail girl in my eyes. I wanted to lean towards an interpretation where he may be this huge bird person (I’d imagine he towers over most of the other generals. Maybe like 6’8-7ft tall), but he’s still a little self conscious about it all. He can’t get around without making at least one stranger panicked at the sight of him. He was a person at birth, but his circumstances have completely changed everything

Also, I think he has the most underrated power concepts. I wanted to base him off of paragon falcons because imagine this guy diving straight at you at 240 mph with a trail of lightning behind him. I think a lot of Shang soldiers have described him as a sentient lightning bolt with how quick he is

Next is the Huang family! Which have more people so this yap session is gonna be way longer. Buckle up lol

I always saw Huang Feihu as this serious and commanding general, but he’s also that sweet old guy who’d drop the hardest wisdom when you needed it. It’s what makes him really generally well liked

Like when NeZha rescues him and his family, he expresses a lot of subtle gratitude to this stranger that just saved his family’s lives. NeZha, a little unused to this kind of affection, brushes it off initially. But it leaves a lasting impression that eventually leads to him really connecting with the rest of the family

Feihu really be pulling his weight as a single dad of 4 + NeZha /j

I know Lady Jia narratively serves as motivation for the Huang family to rebel, but if there’s one thing I’m known for it’s giving female characters all my attention like they deserve

I think Lady Jia is a foil to her husband. Where he was serious but sweet, she was sweet but serious. Always polite and quiet, but was very stubborn and more prideful. You could not get her to do something she didn’t want to

All their kids got their mother’s pride, especially after her death. Imagine being TianXiang, about 7 at the time, suddenly being thrusted into rebellion and grieving the lost of his mom. TianXiang stronger than me, I would not have survived

I was listening to the Ithica saga when I made these concepts, so I may have had a few EPIC Telemechus thoughts put onto him lol. TianXiang mainly takes after his dad, carrying a much stronger empathy that stems from him. He was a kid, so he did kid shenanigans even in the Zhou camps and any neighboring villages. But he’s got his father’s charm, how could you say no to him? Especially with everything going on

As for TianHua, he takes after his mom mainly. A prideful hothead who wants to do great things. I got a little confused about his origin in the translation I read, but I think he was taken away from his family by his master when he was like 3. Which means he never got a chance to connect with his mom as when he joins the rebellion she was long dead (oough imagine how jarring it was for him to come back only to be the brother that most resembles their mom)

Ultimately, their pride and emotions were what lead to the Huang family’s downfall. TianHua, in his pride and stubbornness to fight, ignores his master’s warning of his fate. His father and brothers next, fighting both the Shang army and their own grief over loosing another family member. And finally TianXiang, his pride to his family making him unwilling to acknowledge the Shang dynasty. Plus, he’s the last living member of his family, what is there to loose?

God this bloodline is so doomed…

I was gonna yap more about them all but I think I’ve already written a lot lmao. Maybe I’ll save some of those thoughts for another post