#intersex genital mutilation mention

[wtchgrrl]

i swear to god i fuckin hate being an intersex horror fan sometimes

like. you’re telling me that most of us were literally split open before we were given names yet the only “intersex horror” people seem to think of is “ewww this monster has a penis AND a vagina!!!!”? im gonna hurt someone

[tumbleringismycopingmechanism]

Poem I found during my research that has nothing to do with the topic I'm researching but I thought would be nice to share:

Intersex Babies

The intersex babies born every day

Doctors want to mutilate, we say nay

Just boy or girl is what they're trying to sow

That fucked up binary has got to go

'cause male female or in-between

It all works out just let us be

Cuz we want long clits and short dicks and xxyy

Medical associations ain't got no alibi

Everyone deserves a choice especially the children

We demand a world free of forced genital mutilation

That means no circumcision no cosmetic surgery no clitorectomy no vaginoplasty

Just let the babies be

Foreskin is there for a reason! erectile tissue is there for a reason! mutation is here for a reason!

It's called ... Evolution!

(source)

[may-we-rest-well]

Georgia and all the states that support this executive order can go fuck themselves. :)

You know who else uses gender affirming care outside of trans people?

Cis men with testosterone deficient conditions and men with erectile dysfunction... Viagra is gender affirming care.

Same with women who go through menopause and need HRT for their low hormone production and estrogen related conditions.

Gender affirming care isn't just for trans people but we're the ones being attacked because you fuckers need an enemy to blame for your damn sense of insignificance.

What do you plan to do with the intersex babies now? Will you stop the genital mutilation or will you find a way to give those 'surgeries' a loophole to continue because you want to force people to be M or F even though science has proven it's a spectrum?

Taking away gender affirming care will cause these same kids, that you're preaching about wanting to protect, to instead SH or kill themselves. Taking away access to gender affirming care won't make us disappear, just like taking away safe access to abortion won't stop abortions.

None of you actually care about the lives of children because if you did then you'd take steps to regulate guns, stop school shootings and help homeless children. You just care about staying in power, pushing toxic religious extremism, and lining your pockets with tax payer dollars.

[llyfrenfys]

Diwrnod Coffa Rhyngryw / Intersex Day of Remembrance

/

Diwrnod Coffa Rhyngryw / Intersex Day of Remembrance

Mae Diwrnod Coffa Rhyngryw yn ddiwrnod i gofio pobl ryngryw sy'n cael llawdriniaeth heb ganiatâd. Mae plant rhyngryw yn aml yn cael llawdriniaeth yn ifanc. Mae hwn yn broblem fawr sr gyfer y gymuned ryngryw ac mae llawer o bobl yn erbyn anffurfio organau cenhedlu rhyngryw.

Am fwy o wybodaeth a chefnogaeth, gweler Organisation Intersex International.

/

Intersex Day of Remembrance is a day to remember intersex people who have undergone surgery without their consent. Intersex children frequently have surgeries performed on them at a young age. This is a big problem for the intersex community and many people are opposed to the practice of intersex genital mutilation.

For more information and support, see Organization Intersex International.

[wtchgrrl]

intersex person: yeah my parents agreed to put me under surgery as a baby because my doctor thought my genitals made me ugly. they feel numb half the time. sometimes i can’t tell if it’s blood, discharge or piss down there. i feel violated in every sense of the word. i can’t look below the waist without wanting to throw up

person you thought was safe: lmao imagine being so privileged you complain about getting surgery that some would die to have lollll #cis privilege

[antiterf]

Its kind of ridiculous how difficult it is to find critical intersex literature if you don't know where to look.

That said, here are frequently cited things I've found. For the one's that are behind paywalls, I have a Google Drive folder set up to hold them for access. The only things I leave behind a paywall are books by individual authors. They are not organized at all, I'm sorry.

Intersex Variations Glossary by InterACT

Narrative Symposium: Intersex—Narrative Inquiry in Bioethics (NIB) Volume 5, Number 2, Summer 2015.— Trigger warning for intersex genital mutilation (IGM), sexual assault, and medical trauma—it's honestly a lot but incredibly important. (Drive)

A human rights investigation into the medical "normalization" of intersex people - A report of a public hearing by the Human Rights Commission of the City & County of San Francisco

Surgical Progress Is Not the Answer to Intersexuality - Cheryl Chase. - TW for IGM and images of genitalia (Drive)

The Intersex Roadshow, a blog of Dr. Cary Gabriel Costello - Costello is an intersex trans man and tries to bridge the gap between trans and intersex issues

Beyond Binary Sex and Gender Ideology - Cary Grabriel Costello - Chapter 12 of The Oxford Handbook of the Sociology of Body and Embodiment (Drive)

Transgender and intersex: theoretical, practical, and artistic perspectives (book/textbook) (Drive)

Intersex: Stories and Statistics from Australia (Book) (Open Access)

Fixing sex: intersex, medical authority, and lived experience (Book)

The harms of medicalisation: intersex, loneliness and abandonment (Open Access Article)

Intersex: cultural and social perspectives (Open Access Article)

Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) - Technical Note on the Human Rights of Intersex People. Basically, if you want an easy way to say that doctors are going against human rights by performing IGM.

An experimental philosophical bioethical study of how human rights are applied to clitorectomy on infants identified as female and as intersex (Open Access Article) - People were more likely to support the same surgery on infants labeled as intersex than they were on infants labeled as female.

Caught in the Gender Binary Blind Spot: Intersex Erasure in Cisgender Rhetoric by Hida Viloria - About how cisgender often doesn't accurately express the experiences intersex people have. Costello, mentioned earlier with Intersex Roadshow, coined Ipsogender for this reason.

Introduction for Intersex Activism - A guide for allies

Sex, Science, and Society: Reckonings and Responsibilities for Biologists (Open Access Article)

Contesting Intersex: The Dubious Diagnosis by Georgiann Davis - TW for medical trauma

Spectacles and Scholarship: Caster Semenya, Intersex Studies, and the Problem of Race in Feminist Theory by Zine Magubane (Drive)

Owning Endosex Privilege and Supporting the Intersex Community: WPATH, Intersex Genital Mutilation (IGM), and Sex Variant Bodies by Margo Schulter

The Spectrum of Sex by Hida Viloria and Dr. Maria Nieto

A long way to go for LGBTI equality from the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights - Before the UK left the EU

If anyone wants to add, feel free! This was the non-medicalized stuff I had saved in Zotero, and definitely not all that's out there.

[lycandrophile]

as an intersex woman- it'd be real nice if these people stopped throwing around the word "mutilation" and ignoring IGM (which is still practiced en mass even in "first world" countries) and our lack of bodily autonomy. a trans person (or even a cis person getting elective reconstructive surgery for a myriad of reasons, including IGM) getting bottom surgery is in no way comparable to actual mutilation against your will and it's such a slap in the face to see these people bitch about it while ignoring us. our medical records are literally hidden, destroyed, and altered for the sake of non-intersex people never having to contend with the reality of sex variations.

I bet they'd probably look at the stats on Intersex human rights and try to justify it away though, they sound like the types who want Intersex people to fit into their two perfect sex and gender boxes and never complain! thank you for not backing down, muddying the waters on mutilation- while the intersex community is still trying to fight to get IGM recognized and banned- harms IGM victims worldwide and disgusts me to my core.

Not to mention how many recent american bills banning or limiting elective trans surgeries conveniently still allow for IGM and the pushing of hormones on intersex children and adults who don't need them (again for the comfort of non-intersex people and the assumption we must be "fixed"...) very convenient for these people to ignore!

all of this! these people will act like the “western world” was totally against genital mutilation practices until the big bad trans people came along, when in reality it’s been happening right here at home the whole time.

the only reason they don’t see it (or at least act like they don’t see it) is because of intersexism and racism — intersexism that tells them that whatever’s being done to intersex people must be beneficial and medically sound because of course intersex traits should be “fixed”, and racism that validates their belief that the things happening where they live must be better than what’s happening “over there” because of course there are more human rights abuses happening in non-western places than in their good progressive home.

fearmongering about anything that changes the clitoris or vulva in any way being a form of FGM + downplaying the harms of IGM and saying it’s just good medicine = the perfect way to uphold their precious pseudoscientific sex binary for another day, i guess. as long as we’re all living with the genitals they think we should have, they don’t care who it hurts.

[dhddmods]

Sex Alteration Guide (Bottom Surgery, Top Surgery, & Beyond!)

Hello! Just wanted to share our compiled list of sex alterations that can be performed. Thought it might be interesting for people who want to know.

If you want to learn about intersex types, we recommend reading our post here! And reblog it, please, to share awareness on intersex topics!

Trigger warning for mentions of genital mutilations on children, sexual activity, and sexual assault.

***********

Tracheal Shave: A procedure to shave down an Adam's Apple. This is done for aesthetic/personal reasons, or chosen by transfeminine, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that were unhappy with their Adam's Apple.

Feminizing Laryngyoplasty: A procedure to shave the voice box, reducing the size of the Adam's Apple and increasing the pitch of the voice. This is chosen by transfeminine, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that were unhappy with their voice, and elected for a permanent change instead of vocal practice.

Breast Lift/Mastopexy: A procedure to lift sagging breasts. This is done for aesthetic/personal reasons by people that were unhappy with their breasts.

Breast Augmentation: A procedure to (re)create breasts or reshape/increase the size of breasts, using implants or fat transplants from the thigh, buttocks, or abdomen. This is either done after a breast has been damaged/removed, for people with amastia or tubular breasts, or for aesthetic personal reasons by people that were unhappy with their breasts. It may also be chosen by transfeminine, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that were unhappy with their chest. It can also be done to create extra breasts if desired.

Breast Reduction: A procedure to reduce the size of a breast. This is done for aesthetic/personal reasons, due to injury/damage, or to reduce the weight of large breasts. It may also be chosen by cis-men with gynecomastia, and transmasculine, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that were unhappy with their breasts.

Mastectomy: A procedure to remove a breast. This is done for aesthetic/personal reasons, due to injury/damage, or chosen by people with accessory breasts that wish to have the spare breasts removed. It may also be chosen by cis-men with gynecomastia, and transmasculine, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that were unhappy with their breasts.

Areola Reduction: A procedure to reduce the size of the areola. This is done for aesthetic/personal reasons by people that were unhappy with their areola size. It could be reduction of the size they were born with/developed during puberty, a reduction after pregnancy and/or breastfeeding caused nipple stretching, or it could be done to someone who had nipple (re)construction and were unhappy with the size the surgeon created.

Nipple Reduction: A procedure to reduce the size of a nipple. This is done for aesthetic/personal reasons by people that were unhappy with their nipple size. It could be a reduction of the size they were born with, a reduction after long-term breastfeeding caused nipple stretching, or it could be done to someone who had nipple (re)construction and was unhappy with the size the surgeon created.

Nipple Excision: A procedure to remove a nipple. This is done for aesthetic/personal reasons, due to injury/damage, or chosen by people with accessory nipples that wish to have the spare nipples removed. It may also chosen by transgender, altersex, or intersex people that were unhappy with their nipples.

Nipple (Re)construction: A procedure to create or recreate a nipple, using the skin from the chest, abdomen, inner thigh, buttocks, or (if present) previously existing nipples. This is either done after a nipple has been damaged/removed, for people born with athelia, or for those unhappy with inverted nipples. It can also be done to create extra nipples for aesthetic/personal reasons, or for non-binary or altersex people that wished for their body to have a specific appearance. When created from scratch, tattoos can be given for pigmentation of the nipple.

Vastectomy: A procedure to snip the vas deferens, in order to prevent the release of sperm (or eggs, in some cases of ovotestes.) This is done as a form of birth control, and can sometimes be reversible.

Tubal Ligation: A procedure to tie or snip the fallopian tubes, in order to prevent eggs from being fertilized (or sperm from being released, in some cases of ovotestes.) This is done as a form of birth control, and can sometimes be reversible.

Salpingectomy: A procedure to remove a fallopian tube. This could be done due to injury/damage or as a form of birth control.

Orchiopexy: A procedure done to move an undescended testicle into the scrotum. It is done on intersex people as a way to prevent testicular cancer, preserve fertility, and/or prevent inguinal hernias. It is one of the few intersex surgeries that are acceptable to do on infants.

Gonadectomy: A procedure done to remove a gonad (ovary, teste, or ovoteste.) When done to an ovary, it is known as an Oophorectomy. When done to a testicle, it is known as an Orchiectomy. This is done due to injury/damage or as a form of birth control. It may also be chosen by transgender, altersex, or intersex people that were unhappy with their gonads.

Hysterectomy: A procedure to remove the uterus. This could be done due to injury/damage, as a form of birth control, to stop painful menstruation, or to stop a uterus prolapse. It may also be chosen by transmasculine, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that have no desire for a uterus, or have a uterus incompatible with pregnancy.

Trachelectomy: A procedure to remove a cervix. This is done due to injury/damage, a deformed cervix, to remove a hypoplastic cervix that does not release menstruation efficiently, or to remove a second cervix in cervical duplication.

Cervical (Re)construction: A procedure to create or recreate a cervix. This is either done after a cervix has been damaged, or for intersex people with cervical agenesis or cervical hypoplasia (to prevent menstrual fluids from getting trapped inside and/or to allow for easier pregnancy.)

Hysteroplasty/Uteroplasty/Metroplasty: A procedure done to those with a bicornuate uterus, septate uterus, or uterus didelphys to merge both sides/remove any blockage between them. This is done to lower risk of miscarriage and premature birth.

Prostatectomy: A procedure done to remove the prostate. This is done due to injury/damage.

Penis Splitting: A procedure done to split the penis (or ambiguous genitalia that has a penis-like structure) open. It could be done for aesthetic/personal reasons, for additional sexual enjoyment, or to assist with urination in those with a shallow, blocked, or absent urethra. It may also be chosen by trans-women & non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that were unhappy with their penis.

It is also explored as a cultural practice in some Australian, Africa, South American, and Oceanic locations.

Meatotomy: When only the urethral area of the glans is split open.

Subincision: When only the underside of the penis is split open, but the top-side is left closed. This split can give the penis a labia-like appearance, and allow for easier time with sex toys that do urethral penetration. This could be only on the glans or down to the shaft.

Genital Bisection: When the penis is split open completely. This could be only on the glans or down to the shaft.

Perineal Urethrostomy: A procedure done to open a urethra beneath the penis, on the perineum. It could be done for aesthetic/personal reasons or to assist with urination in those with a shallow, blocked, or absent urethra. It may also be chosen by transfeminine, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that were unhappy with the placement of their urethra.

Urethroplasty: A procedure to create or repair a urethra. This could be done due to injury/damage, because of urethral blockage or an tight urethra, chosen by those with metoidioplasties/phalloplasties or vulvoplasities, or chosen by intersex people with urethral traits. For intersex people with urethral agenesis, it is necessary for urination.

Circumcision: A procedure to remove the foreskin. This could be done for aesthetic/personal reasons, due to injury/damage, or to assist with urination and hygiene if urine was consistently trapped in the foreskin. It is also done as a cultural practice in several African and Oceanic cultures, as well as a religious practice for Jews, Muslims, some Christians/Catholics, and a couple smaller Abrahamic religions.

Dorsal Slits: A procedure to remove a piece of the foreskin, leaving a slit on the upperside of the penis that exposes the urethra on the glans. This could be done for aesthetic/personal reasons or to assist with urination and hygiene if urine was consistently trapped in the foreskin. It is also explored as a cultural practice by some Filipinos and Pacific Islanders. A Ventril Slit is the same, but on the bottomside of the penis.

Prepuitioplasty: A procedure similar to a dorsal slit, except the top of the foreskin isn't cut, and after the slit is removed, the foreskin is sewn back together. It is done to make the foreskin looser, to treat those with phimosis (foreskin that will not retract).

Hoodectomy: A procedure to remove part or all of the clitoral hood, or to reduce its size. This could be done for aesthetic/personal reasons (for example, someone with a long clitoral hood may choose to reduce its size) or due to injury/damage. It may also be done as a form of circumcision or dorsal slits for transmasculine, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people who wish to indulge in those practices.

Labiaplasty: A procedure to remove, reduce, or create labia (usually the labia minora, but this could apply to the labia majora too.) This could be done for aesthetic/personal reasons (for example, someone with labial hypertrophy or stretched labia may choose to reduce its size) or due to injury/damage. It may also be chosen to create labia for transfeminine, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that wished for more neutral/feminine genitals, or alternatively to remove labia for transmasculine, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that wish for more neutral/masculine genitals.

Labia Stretching: A procedure to stretch out the labia minora, gradually increasing its length. This could be done for aesthetic/personal reasons or for additional sexual enjoyment. It is also explored as a cultural practice by some African communities.

Vulvectomy: A procedure to remove part or all of the outer vulva (labia, hood, clitoris, & hymen.) This could be done for aesthetic/personal reasons or due to injury/damage. It may also be chosen by transmasculine, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that were unhappy with their vulva.

Infibulation: A procedure to stitch close the vulva, leaving open enough for menstruation and urination (and in some cases, penetration.) In some cases, the labia, clitoris, and/or hood may be removed as well. This could be done for aesthetic/personal reasons, however it is sadly usually done as a form of genital mutilation of AFAB/AXAB minors in some African, Asian, and Middle Eastern cultures.

Hymenotomy: A procedure to open up the hymen of an intersex person that has a imperforate, microperforate, cribriform, or septate hymen. This is either done because of menstrual/sexual fluids getting trapped inside, to allow for easier penetration, or for aesthetic/personal reasons.

Hymen Reconstruction Surgery/Hymenorrhaphy: A procedure to create or repair a hymen in those with a vagina. This is usually done as a way to fake virginity or "become virgin again", which is influenced by the logical fallacy that hymens break/are stretched during penetrative sex (which is not always the case. They could remain intact, or be stretched by activities like stretching, gymnastics, yoga, horseback riding, etc.) It is sometimes done as a therapeutic procedure for victims of sexual assault/abuse that experienced hymen tearing/stretching during the attack.

Vaginectomy: A procedure to close, tighten, or remove a piece of the vagina. This could be done for aesthetic/personal reasons, due to to injury/damage, or to to block of prolapsing organs. It may also be chosen by transmasculine, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that were unhappy with their vagina.

Vulvoplasty: A procedure to create or repair a vulva. If this includes the creation or repair of a vaginal entry, it is called a Vaginoplasty. This could be done due to injury/damage, or chosen by transfeminine, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that were unhappy with their genitals. Labiaplasties and clitoroplasties are often a part of these procedures.

A Phallus-Preserving Vulvoplasty/Phallus-Preserving Vaginoplasty is when a person with a penis chooses to have a vulvoplasty/vaginoplasty, while keeping their penis intact.

Clitoroidectomy: A procedure to remove part or all of the clitoris. This could be due to injury/damage or for aesthetic/personal reasons. It may also be chosen by non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that were unhappy with their clitoris.

Clitoroplasty: A procedure to create or repair a clitoris. This could be due to injury/damage or genital mutilation. It may also be chosen by transfeminine, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that were unhappy with their small or absent clitoris. For those that had a penis/psuedophallus pre-surgery, either the head or the shaft is used to create/repair the clitoris. For those that lost their clitoris, the recreated clitoris may just be for appearance - it can only be sexually stimulating if the internal clitoral tissue remained sufficiently intact. For those born without any phallus (clitoris, penis, or pseudophallus), the clitoris is created from the labia or scrotum, and is only for appearance.

Metoidioplasty: A procedure to "release" a clitoris enlarged by androgens, by cutting the ligaments that attach it to the pubic bone, allowing it to stand taller when erect, like a typical penis. They can choose to have a scrotoplasty (possibly with prosthetic testes) and/or a urethroplasty (where the urethra is opened on the head of the phallus) if desired. This procedure can be chosen by transmasculine, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that had a large clitoris.

Phalloplasty: A procedure to create or repair a penis. When done only for the glans, it is known as a Glansplasty. When done only for a scrotum, is is known as a Scrotoplasty. This could be done due to injury/damage, or chosen by transmasculine, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that were unhappy with their genitals.

For those that had a vulva (or vulva-like genitals) previously, they can choose to have a scrotoplasty (possibly with prosthetic testes) and/or a urethroplasty (where the urethra is opened on the head of the phallus) if desired. If they had a clitoris/phallus previously, the penis is crafted using either some or all of the nerves to induce sexual sensation. If erection is not naturally possible, an implant is placed inside of the penis, in order to activate it manually.

Penectomy: A procedure to remove part or all of a penis. This could be done due to injury/damage or aesthetic/personal reasons. It may also be chosen by transfeminine, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that were unhappy with their penis.

Genital Nullification: A procedure to remove the genitals, creating a smooth area in its place. Only the urethra (and optionally, sexually stimulating nerves) are left behind. If the sexually stimulating nerves are kept, they can be tactile (buried under the skin, but stimulated through touch) or visual (a lump of nerves, similar to a clitoris.) It may be chosen by transgender, non-binary, altersex, or intersex people that were unhappy with their genitals.

Genital Beading: A procedure to insert beads into the shaft of a penis/phallus or labia. It could be done for aesthetic/personal reasons or for extra sexual stimulation during intercourse (like ribbed condoms/ribbed dildos), almost like "built-in" sex toys. It may also be chosen by altersex or non-binary people that wished for their genitals to have a specific appearance. The beads could be any shape, though they are typically round.

[lokiinmediasideblog]

So some months ago, I was minding my own business and encountered the following joke:

"Do not destroy that twink I have needs for his conniving eunuch ways."

I was like "this is loki-coded " and tagged it as loki. And then it kept haunting me...

as of now, I'm having unbidden thoughts that are all a variation of "Loki is a prince whose kingdom thinks of as a royal advisor rather than a heir." Lots of people in fandom that think of the brodinsons as platonic speculate and are even convinced that Loki was meant to be Thor's advisor after Thor took the throne. The following excerpt is from the Thor (2011) script. Why are they counting on their spare/supposedly younger son to reign in the heir to the throne? Why do they act like he'll always be at Thor's beck and call to provide advice? (It's also why I vehemently disagree with parentified!Thor HCs, but this is not the place for that rant...)

What's interesting is that it's a very common position/occupation for queer-coded villains in fantasy/monarchy settings. The royal advisor role is often associated with eunuchs who came from poor backgrounds and were coerced/forced into being mutilated and this dynamic is present with loki in a rather subtle way that is framed as merciful (loki was from a ravaged realm and his birthright was to die; he was found in a war zone).

Additionally, there is quite a lot of fic(some of rather questionable taste) that focuses on Loki's unusual alien "parts". Sometimes his alien parts in fic resemble intersex conditions or he happens to have both perfectly functioning and proportional sets of binary genitalia simultaneously. Regardless, in both of these cases, his genitals don't fall under the typical binary.

There's also fic where Odin changes Loki into an Asgardian form with genitalia that conform to the binary, but Loki discovers this was not the case in his Jotun form... Doesn't this have implications of intersexist medical sexual abuse?

not to mention, there is cannon genital torture in the series… and i went like "huh, this is surprisingly myth-accurate. what an odd choice..."

Genital injury(but it was Loki's idea; were they attempting to improvise an orchidectomy or did they not care bc shapeshifting heals them and or their balls are ridiculously durable?) is also present in the myths when Loki attaches their testes goat's beard to make Skadi laugh... It's noted as one of the events in which Loki "loses status" due to the emasculation they showcased in front of the rest of the Aesir.

I went in detail in the MCU!Sif=Sif + Skadi post I made some time ago where I cite Lindow mentioning that in for the Norse castration was a punishment associated with slaves...

I'm not saying that he is a eunuch, but there is coding. Probably because a lot of queer-coding may be based on perceptions (unfair) of eunuchs in royal courts.

[baroque-hashem]

Presumably, you believe in bodily autonomy, just the same as me -- of women who desire to get an abortion, of trans people who desire to transition (socially, yes, but since we are discussing *bodily* autonomy, medical transition is an appropriate analogy), etc. Keeping this in mind, do you not think it violates the bodily autonomy of a person to have them undergo a surgical procedure on their genitals (that is, circumcision) when they are a newborn and as such unable to consent to such an action? I mean, presumably, you'd also (correctly, to be clear!) be against it when it comes to intersex children being forced into procedures to make their genitals align with their AGAB. How is circumcision any different? Should we not seek to protect the autonomy of children -- one of the most vulnerable and systematically repressed populations -- by leaving it up to their own decision, when they grow older, on whether or not they should undergo circumcision?

P.S. you should do more research into the function of a foreskin. It is by no means "unnecessary" -- it serves to reduce friction during intercourse, and it contains many nerves that enable sensory input.

Speaking as an intersex person, circumcision is completely different than corrective surgeries for intersex children. Sometimes, corrective surgeries are medically necessary. You're comparing apples to oranges.

Circumcision is really not a big deal. Why do you care? The child doesn't fucking care, and most people don't live to regret it. It doesn't damage your life at all. There is literally almost zero difference between living circumcised versus living uncircumcised. Telling me to do more research? Oh trust me, I know what I'm talking about lmao. Maybe you should actually know what you're talking about before you come screeching into my inbox like some arrogant condescending SJW.

People who believe in the sanctity of nature are fucking ridiculous. Nature is not a god. Nature is not perfect. Nature is an impersonal force which can and does frequently fuck up.

And why is it only a process predominant among Jews that people have a problem with? I don't hear people kvetching about female genital mutilation by Muslims, which IS completely unnecessary, nearly as much as they kvetch about circumcision.

What are the negatives of circumcision? The only one anyone has ever been able to find is the tiniest most miniscule chance that sexual intercourse will feel different. Maybe. Or maybe your piss hole will shrink, which can be fixed so fucking easily with a simple procedure, and this problem can occur in uncircumcised people too. And wow, THAT'S a good reason for shitting on a thousands-of-years-old religious practice? Because maybe your putz won't feel as fucking good while fucking? Fucking fakakta, man.

Circumcision is not a big deal. It doesn't hurt people. Fucking get a life. Go worry about something that actually matters.

And I love when people prove my points. I mention that people are weirdly hyperfixated on circumcision, and here you are, kvetching about a non-issue.

[xxxjarchiexxx]

im reading a paper on decolonial feminism that just makes passing mention to the parallel between female genital mutilation and intersex corrective surgery and that immediately sparked a thought in me abt the inherent racism in how wester feminism tlaks about fgm as some foreign savagery as tho we dont have a protected fleet of procedures to do almost the same thing, just to a differently defined group of gendered bodies with a different set of genital surgery/mutilative practices

[baeddel-txt]

Genuine question but whats the point in baeddels using the terms "camab" and "cafab?" doesnt it mean the exact same thing as amab and afab? why do they use it?? where did it come from? just genuinely curious

I have no idea where “CAGAB” comes from. The first time I encountered it was on tumblr circa 2010. Prior to that, all I knew was “FAAB” and “MAAB” (fe/male assigned at birth).

There was discourse over the terms “CAMAB” and “CAFAB” back then, with mostly trans radfems arguing that a trans woman coined the terms, and transphobic intersex people arguing that the terms belonged to intersex people. Neither side was able to provide any evidence for their claims. That said, I did do my own research into it at the time and the earliest usage of “CAGAB” I was able to find was from TransTorah in 2002.

(link)

So take that as you will.

That said, as time went by, and this particular discourse became more widespread, most people ended up taking the intersex side. It is from this where “AGAB” and “DGAB” (designated gender at birth) come from.

Initially in the discourse the argument was that endosex trans people could not be “coercively” assigned anything, only intersex people could, as supposedly the “coercively” referred specifically to intersex genital mutilation. People accepted this, and dropped the “C” giving us “AGAB”.

Of course, goalposts move, and so the discourse changed to how endosex trans people cannot be “assigned” a gender, only intersex people can, because, again, of intersex genital mutilation. So that killed “GAAB” and, briefly, “AGAB”. In its place was coined “DGAB”.

People tried to move the goalposts again over “designated”, but people saw what was happening re shifting goalposts, and so this never got any traction. Not to mention how trans radfems were gaining more ground in social justice circles so people were more willing to listen to them now. People instead just continued to argue over “coercively” and “assigned” until the Baeddel Crew broke up. How much of that correlation is causation I know not.

As for why baeddels prefer “CAGAB” over others, well, it’s because the “coercively” connotes that the gendering was forced upon you against your will, it implies violence, which the “assigned” alone does not. There was also some shit about how “AGAB” and “DGAB” are harmful because they lump trans people in with cis people.

(link)

[complicitsacrilege]

You're wrong about MGM. Do you honestly think that mutilating a child's genitals PREVENTS infections? Girl that's an open wound on a child that pisses and shits in the same diaper. And are you unaware that we have this thing called ANTIBIOTICS. Those help against bacterical infections, not open wounds. Babies die from complications after genital mutilation, not to mention the times it goes wrong and they end up with no penis left (ask David Reimer, oh no wait, he killed himself after being forced to live as a girl after they mutilated his penis). We don't live in the middle ages anymore, so get your head out of your ass and stop promating middle age practices. BABIES CANT CONSENT TO COSMETIC SURGERY. And fuck your religion argument too, BABIES ARE NOT RELIGIOUS THEY ARE BABIES THEY CANT EVEN TALK YET

Hi, hello, wow that is a lot of anger. Maybe it’s time to log off for a bit and breathe. But if you insist on flipping the hell out in my ask box, here you go:

A: do NOT fucking refer to me as ‘girl’.

B: I never said anything about agreeing with ANY kind of surgery performed on nonconsenting parties (child or otherwise), circumcision included. I can understand why it is done for both religious and medical reasons but I’m not sure you comprehend the difference between understanding and agreeing.

C: wow, have you considered not attacking random strangers on the internet without having an OUNCE of reading comprehension? These were my exact tags:

Easy to Read Translation: circumcision is its own issue. There are reasons, both medical, and obvious cultural/religious, why it is done. When are we going to talk about the shit that is done to intersex people (by the medical community - prob should’ve specified that I guess)? (Which is a completely separate issue.)

When did I say that I agreed with it? And when did I ever say that surgeries should be performed on intersex people? I do not see where that is said here. I can understand misunderstanding my words but like… where did you get the entire opposite meaning? Also like… I rarely ever bring it up, so most people don’t know, but I’m an antitheist, so joke’s on you about the religion argument. I think all theistic religions are unethical to some degree, but that doesn’t mean I can’t respect the people who practice them or the cultural significance that they hold.

D: again. I do not agree with performing surgery on infants or people who cannot consent in general, but the CDC has stated that circumcision does, in fact help reduce the risk of some types of infection. This is something for consenting individuals to discuss with their doctors. Obviously. https://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp-newsroom/factsheets/male-circumcision-for-hiv-prevention.html#:~:text=Circumcised%20men%20compared%20with%20uncircumcised,%25%20to%2047%25%20percent).

E: Kindly fuck off because this is all the attention you will be receiving from me.

[prententiousjackal]

Surprised I haven't seen someone coin these before.

Prepucegender: A state where one's gender is connected to having a prepuce (foreskin or clitoral hood) or a desire to have one.

Aposthiagender or Circumcisiongender: A state where one's gender is connected to not having a prepuce or a desire to not have one.

Turns out pro-circumcision conservatives were forcibly transing the kids all along. Not to mention intersex genital mutilation.

[ipso-faculty]

Excerpt from Costello (2016) on trans & intersex tensions

As part of the reading I've been doing for tomorrow's @intersexbookclub I read this book chapter "Intersex and Trans* Communities: Commonalities and Tensions" by trans & intersex scholar CG Costello that honestly still feels very relevant in 2023 and I personally found illuminating in understanding interactions I have seen and had on tumblr.

Bit of context: Costello differentiates an identity framework and a disorder framework for both trans and intersex communities, and makes the argument that to understand the relations between trans and intersex communities you need to realize there are four communities at play here, not two:

identity-framework trans people

disorder-oriented trans people (aka truscum aka transmeds)

identity-oriented intersex people, and

disorder-oriented intersex people (who tend to use DSD)

[Excerpt begins, all bolding is by me. A perisex trans person using the h-word is behind cut. A mention is made of rape. Anything in black is my commentary.]

The largest source of tension between intersex and trans* people had its source in the insistence of trans* individuals who framed trans* identity as a disorder that the intersex community should not only be seen as an ally, but really as their home community. [Perisex trans participant] Hazel stated: “I think many [trans*] gurls like me think of ourselves as intersex, and we deserve to be treated respectfully because we’re born with this problem, just like other hermaphrodites.” Stella elaborated,

You should understand where I’m coming from. You’re intersex. Well, being transsexual is really a type of intersexuality. I was born with a female brain in a male body. So I’m intersex, too. My condition is just as real, and needs treatment just as much. It’s unfair, that all these barriers are put in the way of my getting the hormones and surgery I need, because people are treating us like we’re crazy. They need to understand we have a kind of intersexuality. Then they’ll treat us differently.

It is evident that that minority of the trans* community that took a disorder position had a strong agenda: to claim a right to (free) medical treatment by framing trans-identification as akin to, or literally a form of, intersexuality.

This position is received very poorly by intersex people. For intersex people who employ the identity framework, it comes across as an offensive failure to understand intersex experience. Oscar, himself both intersex and trans*, and viewing both through the identity framework, said:

I do think intersex and TG issues are related in many ways. But being TG isn’t an intersex condition. Man, I hate that whole argument, that TG is an intersex brain state that ‘needs’ to be cured with genital surgery. Because that argument is saying that the surgery doctors force on intersex kids is necessary and good. Because it treats intersex people as lucky, not as victims. These people making this argument have no idea what our lives are like, but they’re happy to use us, to say they speak for us. ‘I have an intersex brain, and intersex people have to get genital surgery, which makes everything better.’ Oh, piss off, idiots. The feminizing surgery that was forced on me as a kid mutilated me, but you’re treating it as good. Don’t you dare claim to speak for me.

Intersex people who employ the identity frame have as their goal a civil rights movement aimed at putting an end to the casting of sex variation from binary ideals as a disorder. Trans* people who position themselves as suffering from an intersex disorder are basing their claim to medical treatment on an argument that supports the perpetuation of binary-normalizing infant genital surgery. Thus, these trans* people are viewed very negatively as appropriating intersex identity while acting in total opposition to the goals of the intersex community by those intersex people who employ the identity frame.

In addition to the ‘brain intersex’ argument, a substantial number of trans* people employing the disorder frame suspect or assert that they have a traditional reproductive intersex status. Irene was one such individual:

Well, for me it came together when I learned about Klinefelter’s. That’s when a person has XXY chromosomes—like, between male and female. And they look like boys when they’re born, but they’re really not. And they are tall and unathletic and shy, like me. Their penises are on the small side, like mine, and their testicles can be unusual. I know when I was young, sometimes my testicles would kind of shloop up into my body, and go up like ovaries. So I am pretty sure I have Klinefelter’s, and that explains why I never really felt male. Because I’m not! [footnote 6 which I will summarize as "this does not mean one has Klinefelters"]

The desire on the part of trans* people employing a disorder frame to claim a physiological or anatomic basis for their trans-identification leads to a lot of conflict with intersex people employing the disorder framework. As Anna noted, “These transsexuals act as if people with DSDs all have gender identification problems. Well, the vast majority of us don’t—I’m very happy I was assigned female.” Many intersex people like Anna are concerned that their binary gender identities are not respected. They wish to be treated as ‘real men’ and ‘real women’, and view trans* claims to an intersex status that would justify gender transition as undermining their struggle for legitimacy. Certainly the common experience of a person with Klinefelter’s is to have always identified as male, to receive the diagnosis as a great surprise during medical investigation for fertility problems, and to be uncomfortable applying the term ‘intersex’ to themselves, using the DSD terminology of ‘46, XXY male’ instead.

Another intersex complaint is that trans* people claiming intersex status do active harm to the intersex community. Edith said, “These intersex wannabes made it very difficult for me, an actual intersex person, to get support. I tried using the discussion boards on Bodies Like Ours, but they were just constantly being flooded by transgenders with crazy notions that they wanted validated.” As someone who blogs on intersex issues, I can affirm that I do often receive comments and email queries from trans* people that accord with Edith’s complaint. Some are simple inquiries (“Do you think I could be intersex? I’ve always felt like a boy not a lesbian, and my girlfriend says my clit is enlarged.”), but others assert as factual extremely implausible bodily descriptions. For example, a trans* woman wrote a comment on one of my posts claiming that despite having a normal penis and testes, doctors had found a uterus and ovaries connected to her anus when she was treated after being raped at age ten, and removed them to avoid pregnancy; in another example a trans* man wrote to me asserting that he had been born with a penis as well as a clitoris, but that his mother had caused the penis to retract into his abdomen by giving him birth control pills as a child. Intersex people are angered at encountering such stories that evince a total lack of knowledge of the way the real sex spectrum works. Anna fumed,

These transsexuals who are pretending to have DSDs are out there spreading disinformation and lies. They hurt the DSD community in general by spreading confusion and making us look bizarre. And some of them could wind up killing somebody. They’ll claim to have CAH and start speaking like an expert when they know nothing at all about the many varieties of CAH and the serious health risks associated with some of them.

Intersex people who themselves have gender transitioned also expressed displeasure at the lack of knowledge being displayed by trans* people telling fanciful stories about being intersex. Theta said,

When a trans person bases their claim to a right to gender transition services on some ludicrous story—“I was born with ovaries and testes, but exposure to some Cherenkov radiation caused the ovaries to dissolve in a glorious blue glow”—they are doing no one any favors. Their assumption that an intersex person who is unhappy with the sex zie was assigned at birth is entitled to some sort of ‘free sex change’ is absolutely false. In fact, not only are the gender transitions of intersex people not covered by insurance, but it’s actually harder for us to access transition services, because the diagnostic category used excludes people with intersex conditions. All these people succeed in doing is providing fodder to transphobes in the intersex community who then challenge the legitimacy of the intersex status of any of us who gender transition.

In short, intersex people of all stripes, employing both the disorder and identity frameworks, are repelled by trans* people who seek to position themselves as intersex based upon a false belief that this will protect them from stigma, and grant them access to free gender transition services, which are (mis)framed by these trans* people as appropriately freely provided to intersex children and adults.

[End excerpt]

The inquiries mentioned a few paragraphs above sound like my asks and what I see on #intersex with such regularity, and helped me understand whyyy this keeps happening. 😵‍💫