#immunity debt

[tzifron]

You know how sometimes you catch someone in a lie, and so they tell an even bigger lie to try and cover up the first lie they told?

Well, that's happening right now.

Last winter, a handful of celebrity doctors went on mainstream news networks to assure us that Omicron was "mild." They carpet-bombed us with articles and tweets, doing their best to brainwash everyone.

They were wrong.

In the end, real science junked that idea. An article in the Journal of the American Medical Association showed that Omicron killed more people than previous variants, even when adjusting for other factors. Another study by doctors at Massachusetts General and Harvard Medical found that Omicron was just as deadly. In fact, "the risks of hospitalization and mortality were nearly identical." As it turns out, the entire idea of "mild" Omicron was based on an old, flawed idea known as the law of declining virulence, developed by a doctor who was studying tick-borne disease in cows. It was debunked decades ago.

Most epidemiologists know that viruses don't magically evolve to become milder. Virus evolution is random and chaotic.

In some cases, viruses evolve to become more deadly.

A handful of actual scientists tried to explain all this last winter, including disease experts at Johns Hopkins. A handful of other established experts spoke out against this myth. As a microbiologist at Penn State told Politifact, "You can’t just say it’s going to become nicer." They were largely ignored, because everyone already sort of believed the misinformation. If they knew it was based on a study about cows, they probably would've thought twice.

This year, the makers of "it's mild" are back.

They're selling "immunity debt."

We should be skeptical.

Schools and daycares are sending letters home to parents talking about this "immunity debt.” They’re saying that healthy children are getting sicker, even dying, because they weren't exposed to enough germs over the last two years. Newspapers and TV stations across the country are running with it, proposing it as a "possible reason" for this year's explosion in pediatric hospitalizations. Meanwhile, major medical organizations have sent a letter to President Biden urging him to declare an emergency over an “alarming surge of pediatric hospitalizations” due to a range of respiratory viruses, including Covid.

A lot of people are drinking the "immunity debt" kool-aid.

After all, Americans have believed for generations that getting sick is "good for you." We think our immune system behaves like a muscle. We worry that if we're not giving it a workout, we'll get weak.

It's a myth, just like the law of declining virulence.

Here's why.

[liminalweirdo]

[image id: two screenshots of four tweets by user lisa_iannattone on Twitter, posted on 19 December 2022 at 1:14 p.m., reading sequentially: "It's absolutely wild to me that we're pretending that the higher than average number of respiratory tract infections and the pandemic of adults with pneumonia this year is not a warning sign of immune impairment. This is literally how immunodeficiency would present.In clinical practice, we we want to screen for the possibility of an undiagnosed underlying immunodeficiency syndrome, "how many respiratory infections do you get in an average year?" and "have you had pneumonia more than once?" are the 2 first questions we ask.There's been more pneumonias among my healthy adult friends & acquaintances in the last 6 months than among my immunosuppressed patients in the last 6 years. Something is clearly off. And healthy adults with pneumonia is not a viral transmission dynamics issue.This thread blew up and some people aren't sure if I'm suggesting immunity debt. Definitely not. Staying healthy doesn't make you sick, pathogens do. As for the immunity "gap", it's likely a contributing factor but doesn't explain adults with pneumonia. It's SARS2 I'm worried about.

end image id]

hey, the pandemic is not over. wear a mask.

in case this is unclear, immunocompromised, immunosuppressed, and other disabled people are not getting sick the same way as healthy adults because they are masking the fuck up and/or still largely being forced to isolate, while many many “healthy” adults are not. just because you are healthy doesn’t mean you are immune to long-term effects from covid. anyone can become disabled at any time. immunity debt is not real.

do your part to protect yourself and others. not wearing a mask is worse than ableism. It’s disablist.

Please at least wear masks in public indoor, and crowded outdoor spaces. Make public spaces safe and accessible for everyone.

[thequeeranachronism]

If anyone is trying to say that getting sick is good for you or that immunity debt bs they’re trying to push you to die for the economy. I became disabled at 12 years old because I got too many strep infections as a kid. I have neurological damage that’s caused fibro, tinnitus, visual snow syndrome, noise sensitivity, chronic pain, and pediatric POTS from those repeated infections. Getting sick is not like it’s shown on a medical drama. You don’t necessarily get better right away on treatment diseases cause damage to the body even mild ones can.

[inter-volve]

X

December 16th 2022

[pandemic-info]

An article just came out in the New Yorker using the term "immunity gap" and linking to a Lancet paper using the same.

The article above, via the Association of Health Care Journalists, explains what this term actually refers to and why it's often misused / misunderstood.

The piece is short and I always recommend reading the whole thing. But, some excerpts:

Key takeaways

“Immunity debt” is not an established epidemiological term and is problematically being used to mean different phenomena.

The current caseload of flu, RSV and COVID-19 infections is not occurring because people’s immune systems were weakened from lack of exposure to pathogens during mask-wearing and social distancing.

Accurate use of the term immunity debt (or in some cases is called “immunity gap”) refers to the idea that masking and social distancing temporarily held off infections, which are now occurring as population behavior allows the greater spread of pathogens.

A problematic aspect of using the term is its implication that a disease must be “paid back,” which is inaccurate.

The best journalistic practice is not to use the term “immunity debt” at all except in clarifying how it’s being misused

...

As the number of hospitalized children with influenza, RSV, COVID-19 and other infections continues to soar, multiple media outlets have published stories suggesting one of the causes of the severity of illnesses is “immunity debt,” because of social distancing and masking measures taken during the height of the pandemic.

But infectious disease experts say the media should be very cautious about using “immunity debt” since it is not an established term in epidemiology.

“Immunity debt” has been used to describe a real phenomenon that is playing a role in the high volume of RSV cases, but it’s also been used to describe a spurious idea that it is causing respiratory illnesses to be more severe.

Since the term has been used for two different ideas — one supported by evidence and one not supported by evidence — it’s best for reporters to avoid using the term altogether, or at the least, very clearly define it if it must be used in a story.

...

There is no evidence that those interventions [like masking, social distancing, etc.; referred to as NPIs — non-pharmaceutical interventions] weakened the immune system and made people more susceptible to disease today than they otherwise would have been.

Public health officials are concerned that the media usage of “immunity debt” is being confused to mean that children’s immune systems were weakened due to lack of exposure to pathogens, an idea which is bolstering arguments by those who oppose masks and vaccinations and instead argue that children need to be exposed to pathogens to strengthen their immune systems.

For context, the term “immunity debt” is a social media construct. ...

Many people’s immune systems may indeed be weaker since the pandemic, but not because of lack of exposure to viruses, but rather because of exposure to SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. A growing number of studies have concluded that the virus can actually impair the immune system and make it harder to fend off other pathogens.

...

People may have gotten the unsubstantiated idea of “immunity debt” from the emergence of the controversial hygiene hypothesis, which argued that children may be more susceptible to allergies and asthma because their home environments are too clean, and kids just need to play in dirt to be exposed to environmental microbes.

“The argument there is let your kids play in the dirt. Let them get exposed to microbes. It’s not ‘let them run around in a biohazard lab,'” Gregory told Salon. “Suggesting that unless you’re getting infected regularly with pathogenic viruses, your immune system will be weakened, just runs into a logical problem.”

Some articles, such as this one by Johns Hopkins Amesh Adalja, M.D., use the term to describe the accurate, evidence-based reason that we’re seeing a higher number of respiratory virus illnesses right now, especially RSV. Nearly all children are exposed to RSV by age 2, develop an infection, and subsequently develop a weak immunity to RSV. For the past two years, however, far fewer children have been exposed to RSV because of distance learning, lower daycare use, social distancing and mask-wearing.

The bottom line

Now that children are behaving more like they were pre-pandemic, the infections they would have had then are catching up now — it’s a delay in infections. ... the cases are bunched up.

Therefore, the “debt” is the lack of infections due to simple lack of exposure to pathogens at all, not because of weakened immune systems from lack of exposure. As science communicator Edward Nirenberg noted on Twitter, the biggest problem with the term “is it suggests you need to get sick to stay healthy,” which has no scientific basis. Virologist Ian Mackay has also explained nicely the reason for so many respiratory cases right now in his short Twitter thread.

[lenterablog]

Batuk Pilek pada Anak Akibat Immunity Debt

Batuk pilek adalah kondisi umum yang sering dialami oleh anak-anak. Hal ini biasanya disebabkan oleh virus dan dapat menyebar dengan cepat di antara teman sekolah, keluarga, dan masyarakat. Meskipun batuk pilek biasanya dianggap sebagai kondisi yang ringan dan dapat sembuh dengan sendirinya, namun ada beberapa kasus yang bisa berdampak serius, terutama pada anak-anak dengan sistem kekebalan tubuh…

[the-happy-man]

We should be developing and rolling out vaccines against flu (for which multistrain “universal” jabs are now being trialed) and RSV (for which a vaccine is on the near horizon) much faster, as well as thinking more seriously about non-pharmaceutical interventions such as wearing masks. “It seems absolutely insane to me that we should get on a packed tube at rush hour and there will be people sneezing and coughing and not wearing a mask to protect others,” says Levin. “In Asian countries, you have always worn a mask if you have a cold.” He adds that we should also stop encouraging ill people to go to work and continue to advise hand washing and good hygiene. Flu, for instance, is spread mostly by people touching infected surfaces and then their eyes.

[lamajaoscura]

Immunity debt: What it is, and why it was worth it.

[halorvic]

"Do not let anyone convince you that you need to get sick to be healthy."

[liminalweirdo]

Florida surgeon general urges public to use psychic powers in lieu of listening to experts -- lmfao literally

"In his Florida clinic, Osborn said he does not recommend the influenza vaccine to patients, as "the infection itself nearly always assumes a benign course in low-risk individuals, and similarly, I do not believe that our immune systems should be deprived of challenges.""

repeat after me. there is no such thing as immunity debt, there is no such thing as immunity debt, there is no such thing as immunity debt, you do not need TO CHALLENGE YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM, LITERALLY YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM IS CONSTANTLY WORKING HELLO?!?!?!?

The state surgeon general urged Floridians to make their own decisions based on their particular "resonance of truth," rather than on "very educated people telling you what you should think." "When they try to convince you to be comfortable and agree with things that don’t feel comfortable, [that] don’t feel like things you should agree with, that is a sign, right? That’s a gift," he said.

Florida surgeon general urges public to use psychic powers in lieu of listening to experts.

[spacedocmom]

Doctor Beverly Crusher @SpaceDocMom Your immune system is not a muscle. It does not require exercise. Stressing it doesn't make you healthier. That's not how vaccines work. Vaccines are information, disease is stress. You read books, you don't beat your body with them to "get stronger". emojis: black heart, blue heart, masked 2:16 PM · Dec 3, 2023

[liminalweirdo]

- You can catch Covid multiple times. - Reinfections are common, not rare. - Breakthrough infections are common. - Covid can kill you months after you recover. - It can cause brain damage. - It can cause blood clots and heart attacks. - It doesn’t spare children. - Vaccines help, but only some. - Masks work.

· Researchers at Washington University built a giant data set of veterans to look at the long-term impact of Covid on people’s nervous systems. They found that anyone who gets Covid can develop problems with memory, concentration, depression, migraines, and even strokes. They’re not temporary. Some people slowly get better. A lot of them don’t.

· Catching the virus elevates your risk of memory problems by 77 percent. It elevates your risk of stroke by 55 percent. It elevates your risk of seizures by 80 percent. That’s because Covid attacks the lining of your blood vessels, and it attacks your brain cells. Worse, the researchers can’t predict risk factors.

· The same researchers from Washington University tried to find out exactly how much vaccines help prevent Long Covid. In general, vaccines reduce your risk by about 15 percent. So, not much. On the bright side, vaccines lower your risk of lung problems by 49 percent, and they lower your risk of blood clots by 56 percent. By vaccinated, they mean two doses of vaccine. Key takeaway: Vaccines help, but not as much as everyone thinks. It’s better not to keep getting Covid. Covid damages and/or kills your T Cells. It makes you more vulnerable to other diseases and can trigger new autoimmune disorders. In short, catching Covid just makes you more likely to catch a later variant. One Covid infection sets up another. We are not building up immunity.

· Ziyad Al-Aly at Washington University worked with Veteran Affairs to look at what happens when you get infected with Covid over and over. They found “cumulative risks and burdens of repeat infection increased according to the number of infections.” As the other studies in this list show, catching Covid doesn’t boost your immunity. It just increases your risk of death, hospitalization, brain damage, mental illness, strokes, and heart attacks.

Covid isn’t going anywhere, and our current approach is going to have a big impact on our way of life. As he says, “This will not only affect people’s health, but their ability to work, life expectancy, economic productivity and societal well-being. We need to have a candid national conversation about the consequences of our current approach.”

[cozybearz]

also my sister might have pneumonia and im not feeling great sooo hopefully i dont get pneumonia

[inter-volve]

December 16th 2022

X

[pandemic-info]

‘Immunity debt’ is a misguided and dangerous concept | Financial Times

Anjana Ahuja November 23 2022

There is no evidence that an individual is worse off for having avoided earlier infection

The discussion swirling around immunity debt shows how easy it is for a plausible-sounding theory to circulate as misinformation. In this case, misinformation risks promoting the unfounded assertion that infections are clinically beneficial to children, as well as feeding the revisionist narrative that Covid measures did more harm than good.

Read the whole article on Financial Times.