#im not anti surgery im anti PLASTIC surgery

[cruesuffix]

I’m not anti surgery because being anti surgery is like saying all surgery is bad which it isn’t it’s just risky

Only get survey if you want to or if you are at a high risk of something where you need it

im anti plastic surgery if you’re only getting it for vain reasons. there’s a difference between surgery you need and plastic surgery you don’t need. like getting a rhinoplasty just cause you think your nose is too big is highly unnecessary and will only lead to you getting more plastic surgery because you either get addicted to it or because the first surgery was botched. like me saying that doesn’t mean me saying “oh don’t get open heart surgery you’ll only get addicted to getting more done.” that’s an entirely different statement. people can criticize plastic surgery because it only harms others. all these celebs act like they’ve got natural looks when we all know they’re in the doctors office every week to keep up appearances. this only makes younger women want plastic surgery themselves because they’ve been convinced they’re ugly when they’re not. if plastic surgery wasn’t such a popular thing to do, do you really think these girls would want to do it? if they weren’t constantly told their noses are too big or their lips were too thin, do you really believe they would want to fix it?

me criticizing ppl for getting plastic surgery doesn’t mean im going to sit here and get mad at someone for getting a kidney transplant…these are not the same things. i don’t want to sound mean but i don’t get how me saying plastic surgery isn’t good and is only a thing because of the harsh standards of beauty equals me being anti fixing your body for legit medical reasons. cause it isn’t. what im saying isn’t wrong at all actually. like look what happens when you get tons of plastic surgery, you start to look almost un-human. i dare you to look at priscilla and tell me she looks amazing. plastic surgery has more risks than benefits than a normal life saving surgery. sorry not sorry.

(also before you guys pull out the hypotheticals, this isn’t about ppls who’ve become disfigured facially and desperately need plastic surgery…once again, that’s a totally different thing. im strictly talking ppl who use plastic surgery to remain “youthful” or fix arbitrary things that doesn’t even need fixing. thank you <3)

[tubapun]

Straight up don't get how terfs ended up on that post. I'm pretty clearly saying in it that plastic surgery to achieve this idealized fake form that never existed and is ultimately a white supremacist idea of "woman" is bad because it prevents women from being comfortable being the vast variety of forms they can be, while also saying the whole concept of a plastic surgery to become more yourself is the ideal. Considering terfs uphold the white supremacist model of "female" the most out of any modern group, shunning anyone who looks the least bit "mannish", I'd say the post itself is pretty clearly against their whole deal

[dogboytits]

the "has [insert idol here] gotten plastic surgery" debate is so odd to me like i get being curious but why does it matter. the only qualms i have w idols getting work done is that i hope they were not pressured into it by anyone. (but honestly in a business where you need to look gorgeous, i feel any idols decision is going to be biased and influenced by the whole culture of kpop beauty standards, but I digress)

i feel like people think that someone getting plastic surgery makes their beauty "less real" or whatever, but lets be serious- idols dont wake up looking that gorgeous either. they get their hair and makeup done, they have filters on them, they get edited, they get skin treatment. its wild to me how many people have fallen for the idea that idols are naturally drop dead gorgeous with inhumanly flawless skin. its just not true. they dont actually fucking look like that.

[radenshogun]

i hate you bella hadid i hate you people who make women look like bella hadid i hate you fillers i hate you fox eye surgery i hate you generic instagram influencer face i hate you beauty industry

[widevibratobitch]

i need to dye my hair i need to cut my hair i need to bleach my eyebrows again i need to shave them off completely i need to DO something i need CHANGE or ill go insane

[cruelsister-moved2]

i cant with all these <30 year old celebtresses who look like youthful 50< year olds with the plastic surgery like the dystopiosity of a young person who looks like an older person trying to cover up ageing they have literally not yet experienced ?!

[porcelain-rob0t]

i dont think you need a psychologist's approval to get gender confirmation surgery. however you definitely should if you want to get your facial fat removed.

[jupiterjunebug]

Being in the comics g! J0e fandom is an exercise in constantly reliving the "is it problematic to sexualize hydra" discourse in my own head abt the guy who, in the original marvel comics, pops sig heils and is a thinly veiled reference to kkk/neo nazi shit

[victoriannarwhal]

Lip injections are horrible! Maybe they're rarely done right or people are over filling their lips to that point but nothing automatically strikes the uncanny valley response in my brain quite like lip injections.

[swagyna]

sorry...???? 6 to 12 months?? young women? what the fuck is going on? this HAS to be fueled by social media and specifically tiktok right????

im so flabbergasted by this. and the males in the video just say "wow this is bad!" but of course won't ever say outright to stop using it.

look. i don't wanna say it but i'll say it. i would not be shocked that the pervasiveness of experimental cosmetic procedures has skyrocketed due to the push of identity politics and insistence that srs' are totally safe and fully researched.

[swagging-back-to]

step 1; cancel your plastic surgery appointment.

step 2; practice confidence boosting activities.

step 3; look at other humans, realize whatever flaw you want to remove or change is normal.

[ilhoonftw]

I gotta give it to jype, they’re really capable of finding PS surgeons that are good at their job. The majority of their active idols look like they haven’t gotten any work done (meaning the surgeons did it well), and the ones where there’s an obvious change, it’s well done and still looks natural. As opposed to SM finding surgeons…..they all look literally the same

hmm imho it depends. i never looked into that bc aside from twicę im indifferent to them so idk their faces. they market themselves to be pro natural and also idols supposedly have good personalities but we all know... lol. sm used to have a pretty decent doctor(s). but then again there are so many horror stories like shinhwą guy getting a 'nose job gift' from lee sooman and the nose becoming misaligned. there's at least ex sm trainee i know who has to get filler retouch once a while bc his sm nose didn't stand the test of time. or one of the women idols having oddly shaped nostrils and looking more like jo kwón than herself. i think circa 2012 they changed the clinic bc some of the mid-2010s procedures looked rough. meanwhile bigshit gives everyone a nose implant 💀 some of the noses are so botched it's sad. like nose is important not only visually but ... for breathing. there are many idols that got subtle nose tweaks like making nostrils less wide. when fillers became popular, lots idols started getting nose fillers but rn as far as i know many surgeons stopped filling nose bridges.

techinically beauty plastic surgery is meant to be 'you, but better' and often busy celebs get fancy facials and gradually change their look via getting plastic surgery in increments. a normie would get a nose job meant to enhance the tip, raise the bridge and narrow the nostrils at Once but someone who can afford to do it "slowly" might choose to get three separate procedures to address each concern directly. i mean they worth often lies in their face 🤔 the moment they start to look super different they might lose their brand recognition. i mean people like enrique or takuya removed face beauty marks people knew them for. i had people telling me to not get a "pretty mole" removed despite cancer risk so i can't imagine the pressure they might've faced, managers etc telling them to keep their trademark feature despite doctors' advice

also how many times idols 'took a break to recover from lasik surgery' only to return with new nose and eyes 🫡

sorry i focused on nose jobs but that's an easy to explain and very common procedure

[genderkoolaid]

How do you respond to people who try to argue against various gender affirming surgeries with anorexic people wanting liposuction? I tried to point out that theres a lot of gender affirming surgeries for cis people who dont feel feminine/masculine enough, but my sister said that those people need therapy too. I feel that there's a difference between trans people and anorexic people but idk how to put it into words, im scared i accidentally made her more transphobic bc i didnt have arguments :(

Good question! It's important to question and critique our ideas of what separates "good, natural desires which should not be changed" from "bad, unnatural desires which should be changed," and I think sometimes trans people are too quick to reaffirm this binary in our attempts to defend transness.

I would say that the difference here is based in anxieties. Anorexia is born out of anxiety- which is to say, a persist concern over something that triggers strong emotional reactions and which you keep returning to over and over and over without resolution. Dysphoria can and does cause anxiety, but you can be dysphoric without having anxiety over it. You can have dysphoria, find relief, and be satisfied with your body, while there is never any satisfaction point with eating disorders. There is always a feeling of "not enough" because the desire to be skinnier is born out of anxiety over what it means to be fat & fatness' place in society (lesser value, moral weakness, medical abuse, etc.).

Like I said, dysphoria can and does cause anxiety. There are trans people who obsess over their bodies being too masculine/feminine because they are concerned with what it means for them to be too masculine/feminine: it means they aren't real, they are ugly, they're failure. And this is why its important for trans people to sit with our dysphoria and analyze it. If you are constantly worrying about your body being "real" enough, no amount of surgery or HRT will fix that (although it may fix many things).

Now, I am generally against any solution thats like "we should stop Those People from doing x because We know whats best for them!" because autonomy is a vital part of my beliefs, and I think that people rarely ever react well to being banned from doing something Because Mother Knows Best. The real goal with, say, EDs, is to get rid of the artificial desire for thinness by combating fatphobia (ah, if only all the anti-ED campaigns out there did this). The same with plastic surgery: I would much rather we focus on dismantling the system that makes people (esp. perceived women) feel they need to make their bodies fulfill the beauty standard, than saying that plastic surgery is Evil and we should stop anyone from ever getting it, because those little people aren't capable of using their basic right to bodily autonomy correctly. When we ban something, what we really want is to change people's desires. But that requires cultural change, and laws don't create cultural change out of thin air. Its like how yelling at your kids doesn't make them more honest or better people, it just makes them better liars.

Given that trans people exist in every society, potentially going back to the Stone Age, even after we unwork systemic misogyny & homophobia, trans people are still gonna want surgeries. So we should just work on combating those things instead of trying to control people's bodies.

[pienhime]

im gonna say something ppl say is problematic:

a dress saying it can make u look 5kg slimmer faster than you can get surgery to actually become 5kg slimmer isnt "fatphobic" or "pro-ana". its a tongue in cheek over-exaggerated way of saying the dress is very flattering and creates the illusion of a slimmer body. wanting a slimmer body isnt always (or even usually) indicative of having an eating disorder. most people want to wear clothes that flatter them! but the words "plastic surgery" and "diet" have triggered kneejerk "omg so problematic!!!" reactions.

also, even *if* it were ED related, being mad a jirai influencer made something related to a mental disorder and not in an "uwu ur so valid but also just stop having symptoms and unhealthy behaviors bc thats problematic and ur mental illness will spread" way is sooooo braindead. "i get some jirais want to protect the lifestyle but-" wrong, the people in the jirai kei subculture want to keep people who judge and shit on the culture of jirai kei (mental illness community thats neither pro nor anti recovery, even indicates in its name that it may be toxic or unhealthy) while wearing the styles we commonly wear but calling them all "jirai kei fashion" instead of their OG names bc the tag is more popular and claiming it makes them a part of our culture OUT of our subculture. because its already gotten bad enough that ppl who do use the OG names for things get attacked, and jirai girls are looked down on and called weird and problematic by the people who want to call themselves one of us while treating jirai subculture as a costume. fuck off and leave us alone people, the name of the subculture says its toxic!! idk what influencer lied to u ab that being "just a stereotype" and not the core of the subculture, or that jirai kei is the name of a spwcific new fashion and "the lifestyle" is separate, but you should be mad at them, not us.

[mithliya]

Hi! Do you think you could explain how gender critical people can support body autonomy in cases like abortion but not transition? I know you believe that medical transition doesn't change someone's gender. But under the ideals of body autonomy, would you support a woman taking T if she still called herself a woman instead of a calling herself a trans man?

And in general, I know radfems are anti-plastic surgery, but wouldn't that too fall under one's body autonomy?

I'm just trying to figure out radfem and gc ideas but I'm running into some inconsistencies.

honestly i was a bit baffled by this ask and couldn't help but feel like its bait bc ... how is cosmetic surgery that is harming your body, incredibly expensive, and done as a result of self-hatred the same as not wanting to carry a baby & go thru the risks of pregnancy for 9 months? to me these are such blatantly, fundamentally different things. but let me assume this isn't bait and you're asking in good faith and address your points.

I know you believe that medical transition doesn't change someone's gender.

this shows a complete lack of understanding on what beliefs i even hold. i don't think medical transition "doesn't change someone's gender" i know it doesn't change a person's *SEX*. this difference is very crucial. gender = gender roles, gendered expectations, etc. it is a social construct. it has nothing to do with anything medical nor biological, its a social contruct that varies across time and cultures.

But under the ideals of body autonomy, would you support a woman taking T if she still called herself a woman instead of a calling herself a trans man?

why would i support the act of taking synthetic hormones which are actively harming your health just as long as you Identify a certain way? it doesn't matter to me what you call yourself. i'm critical of medical transition because it is costly, harmful, and rooted in questionable beliefs. i'm critical of how readily it is promoted. i am critical of how profitable it is to pharmaceutical and medical industries. i am critical of how little research is being put into ensuring the safety of it as well as research into other methods of dealing with sex dysphoria. whether you call yourself a man or a woman is the least of my concerns.

you use the term bodily autonomy, but you seem to be under the belief that bodily autonomy = a person gets to do whatever they want with their body and their choices are always above any criticism or analysis and it does not matter how much their choices are harming them or others. by that logic, if you don't support an anorexic woman starving herself or getting a liposuction, you are against her bodily autonomy because you are not allowing her full agency over her body. by that logic, if a woman tells you she wants to get a BBL or have implants put in, you need to validate and encourage that choice because to question harming your body is to oppose bodily autonomy. but that is not what bodily autonomy is. here is a definition:

Body autonomy is defined as the ability of one person to demonstrate power and agency over choices concerning their own bodies. These choices must be made without fear, threat, violence or coercion from others.

Body autonomy allows individuals the freedom to make their own choices about their bodies. This is significant to a person’s health and wellbeing.

now, if there is a group of people being told that they need to transition ASAP and being told constantly that without transition they will kill themselves, is that or is that not going to instill fear? because if i was told that i need to take an action as early as possible, lest my life be miserable and doomed, then im going to want to urgently take such an action out of fear. if parents are being told "do you prefer to have a dead daughter or a living son?" or w/e, is that not coercion and threats?

moreover, we know taking synthetic hormones for cosmetic purposes can be extremely harmful for one's health. women with high levels of testosterone naturally suffer from a lot of health consequences as a result, nevermind people who alter their body's hormones. this is fundamentally different from a woman choosing to get an abortion because a pregnancy is costly, risky, has health consequences, and will impact her entire life for at least the next 18 years of her life.

that said, i'm not blaming people who do pursue cosmetic procedures or artificial hormones and i'm not against them. i am against the industries promoting this and making it difficult to even have a conversation on this, even pushing against research that does not benefit their financial interests. i am against the promotion of cosmetic surgery as necessary, healthy, and somehow healthcare. i think that there NEEDS to be more research into medical transition, the impacts it has on health, its usefulness and helpfulness, and alternative treatments. the lack of such research and the lack of constructive conversation on this topic is where my concerns lie. not with identity politics like what someone calls themselves while harming their bodies.

so ultimately, i'm not understanding what you think is an inconsistency here. questioning profitable industries and cosmetic surgery which are modern inventions rooted in amplifying people's, namely women's, insecurities for the sake of profit is not at all the same as an abortion and it's worrying to me that you don't see the difference. providing blind affirmation to every choice an individual makes is not bodily autonomy, its individualism and liberalism to another degree. bodily autonomy is allowing individuals the right to make informed, healthy, decisions for themselves. a woman deciding she does not want to go through 9 months of pregnancy and 18 years of child-rearing is not the same as a woman deciding she hates her body and thus MUST get a boob job (which ultimately harms this person's health rather than helping), or someone deciding they hate their sex and thus MUST get surgeries to pass for a different sex (which also ultimately negatively impacts the person's health, even if it provides some psychological relief which potentially could've been gained via a different approach like therapy).

[xxruletheworld]

male incels should die bc they aren’t actually “involuntary celibate” they just dont want to have sex w women bc they hate us. They only spend their life by hating on us js bc ONE girl didnt want to kiss them in eight grade instead of just becoming a better person (personality n physical maybe idk) to have a chance of getting into a relationship which is what they should do, because guess what Mr. I hate women they r the worst becouse they dont wanna date me? Even ur dead ancestors stopped loving u when u made the decision of acting like this, n no woman will ever like u anymore.

And dont say “well, actually, im an incel bc women made fun of me bc I was ugly” Well idgaf + u r stupid!! 🥳 Why do you think plastic surgery, make up, estheticisians (i think thats the word), anti aging products, n more shit like that exist? Because women have ALWAYS been judged and BULLIED bc of their looks too!!! Bc we HAVE to be the beauty standard n always look PERFECT and CANT AGE or look like an actual HUMAN BEING because otherwise we r not considered women, we r made fun of!! So now tell me, do u really think u r the one that has it worse n has the right to hate on us??