#if people don’t like noah there’s a valid reason and it’s because of what he did back in october 2023

[elevenenthusiast]

I HATE how much people do to defend noah on here and on twitter like why are you all forgetting he’s a zionist?

[kijosakka]

alejandro,,, so fun <3 OKAY I HAVE MANY AN IDEA SO TO BEGIN WITH: panopticon

as established, panopticon is a Thing in this au mainly as a theme (but also a very very big influence in the creation of this in the first place).

panopticon itself refers to an institutional/prison design wherein a central guard tower and the construction thereof makes the prisons unable to tell if theyre being watched at any given moment; thus, self regulation.

^ dramaturgy, as an AU, focuses on noah acting ‘in accordance’ with the cameras in a genre-savvy adjacent manner; he self regulates. the ‘central guard tower’ to him is the audience.

to alejandro, however, the audience is not a variable. his competing does not factor in the audience and public the way noahs does; instead, his focus is shifted to his castmates.

to slot it in now, im talking about alejandros perception of the audience and the perception of him thereof (which, this and the above will be compounded upon with the stuff below further explaining alejandros facade/masking).

^ again, the audience just isnt a necessary variable to alejandro (at least, beyond *his family). playing in the manner he is, orchestrating and manipulating, you just cant fit in the time to placate the audience to make them love you. the more important thing is the opinions of his castmates, who are the real variables impacting his win.

and so, in short, alejandro is polarizing. people love a villain, but there is still the in-universe distinction of it being a reality show. it is real people; so, some part of TD’s audience will account that and denounce alejandro for being so comfortable in manipulating his peers so shamelessly.

[*his family, as seen in canon, seems to be something he is acutely aware of. he would be aware of how he presents himself, and would do so in a manner pleasing to them.

this is not to say hes unaware of the audience. he knows theyre there and speaks directly to them in the confessionals in a shifted manner (exaggerated/nitpicked for the purposes of this AU).

< where most characters speak about their competition to the audience, alejandro often speaks directly to the audience. tiniest distinction but i feel i should make it and emphasize it]

and now,, his actual facade; what it portrays, what it hides, and the reasons/motivations.

^ restating another post (ty ophe), alejandro has a mask of a person hiding antagonism. he acts like an idealist version of his actual person; kind, sensible, intelligent, considerate. athletic, helpful, goodhearted, compassionate, attractive to boot. taken to an extreme, holier-than-thou and patronizing. diminished, way overcompensatory, or maybe doormat-ish.

while this version of noah comes off as uncanny valley because no real person is so detached and lifeless, no real person is so perfect either. alejandro would trigger the same bells but to a much, much lesser degree. more like there were pieces of a puzzle missing rather than something distinctly wrong.

because alejandro seems like a person, he portrays depths and facets to himself (while all positive), and interacts with his castmates like how people interact with people.

it is, again, a the veil of an idealist person hiding antagonism. i don’t think alejandro is a cartoonishly antagonistic, unremorseful supervillain character (and hes not really portrayed as such in canon, but just to say), but he is absolutely not the perfection he portrays himself as.

now is a great time to add that alejandros mask heavily relates back to the expectations his family pushes on him; not only is it good socially (for the purposes of the competition) but theres probably a sense of validation there aswell (if shallow, because its still not an appreciation of the ‘real’ him).

^ and thats a Thing as well, the ‘real’ alejandro. flawed and imperfect, able to be irritable and snappy and meanspirited with arrogance hiding the cracks of overwhelming inferiority. as a person, that is, in intent for the game hes, well, an eel. conniving and slippery and manipulative and sly and vindictive and unapologetic.

and as for reasons,, staying in line with the burromuertos ‘high society’ position in this AU, maybe it was something like a way to prove himself; he works the social game and shows business promise because of it, and brings a hefty sum of money home to his family that he earned.

and his facade is an easy one, not only a way to show a sense of professionalism and keep the burromuerto name ‘untainted’ by blatantly unsavory behavior similar to someone like duncan, but a way to keep his castmates none the wiser while the steals the money from under them.

BUT within the au itself things umm do not go to plan as noah makes it his mission to unmask alejandro as just as fake as he himself is.

which brings about the topic of a very specific cast relationship: noah and alejandro

as,, yk,, the backbones of his entire au (ok its more like nervous systems. noah is central and alejandro is peripheral) i want to save a full digging into their relationship and developments for another post entirely (probably going episode by episode until pre london focusing mostly on alejandro, and then another post after i figure out the actual events of WT going through the changed canon)

but to just go through it very quickly; noah doesnt trust alejandro and sees through him. alejandro eventually catches wind of the fact that noah doesnt trust him, and i imagine it would trigger a wondering of how? spurred on by noahs whole ‘no substance’ thing.

and besides, nobody has anything on noah despite him being their castmate going on 3 years now. and now that he’s thinking about it, what does he himself really know about noah in the same way he knows things about the rest of the cast? that’s interesting. *

^ i imagine alejandro would be wary but not worried about noah knowing, simply because of the passive nature he’s read of the other. < poor alejandro. it is not nearly that easy.

[*interesting,,, i will cover that more on the actual post going ep by ep for their relationship. because i do have Thoughts]

[smoshsfavoritepizzaplace]

Smosh confessions:

1) I'm so bored of Shayne and Amanda being paired together. They're fun, but their vibe is the exact same in EVERYYY video and they're in soooo many videos together. Especially ones where it's just them two. I wind up skipping those because I already know it's going to be them riffing off each other and saying "wait wait" for 40+ minutes.

2) I don't think Noah is the mustache-twirling cartoon villain fandom makes him out to be. He had a passionate reaction very early on, like almost everyyyyone did before we all learned of the propaganda of it all and who the real terrorists were, but his message has always been about peace above all else. I understand wanting to make sure you're not actively supporting someone who supports genocide, but there's zero indication that he does. And I think the fact that he's still in Smosh videos is less of "they can't fire him, it would be discrimination!" and more "hey, these people actually know him as a human being and not Guy Who Liked Those Tweets on Oct 7th." Everyone who has been vocally pro-Palestine in the cast has ALSO been buddy-buddy with Noah. He was at Shayne and Courtney's freaking wedding party. So either the cast are morally corrupt hypocrites, or there's nuance here.

God you guys are making some valid points so far. I don’t wanna say I’m personally tired of shaymanda but I could see why you would be based on your reasoning. It does kinda seem most of their dynamic is just Amanda not knowing certain things and in your words, Shayne saying “wait, you don’t know about ____?!??” It can be somewhat tiring at times but aside from that I do like their friendship. It’s definitely grown since they share having a podcast/a game to play together so that’s the better part of their dynamic.

Now onto Noah, I understand what you’re saying but I feel a lot of people are mad at Noah because I don’t think he’s apologized yet or shown any sort of growth from the whole ordeal. And it does make sense that the other Smosh cast are still friends w/ him because at the end of the day, they may not share the same views on certain things but as you said, they know him personally and maybe he’s a phenomenal friend and that overpowers what his views. I’m not saying I agree with that but I tend to notice a lot of people don’t mind what their friends think, as long as they’re good to them. Does it make it right? No. But it’s normalized within a lot of friend groups. And I don’t think unfriending Noah is as easy as people think. This is someone a portion of the cast has known for almost a decade so it’s gonna be hard to not be close w/ him, especially if they still work together. Lastly, I think everyone has the power to change as long as they actually make an effort to. So maybe since Smosh is advocating for Palestine now, they’re trying to show him what way is right. Not defending him but since he’s Jewish, he probably has 2 decades worth of hearing a bias so he’s not gonna change overnight. So idk I’m sorry if it sounds like I’m on his side, I’m not. I just have a problem giving everyone the benefit of the doubt until they really give me reason to not and I try to see everything from both sides.

[the-golden-comet]

So I saw the results of the character poll and I would like to voice my support of Noah as the all time GOAT of the Goldencomet-verse

Ik Peter won, and don't get me wrong, I love Peter, but maybe he's a bit too much of an asshole. Like, he doesn't catch enough retribution for his actions and Benji is kinda forced to deal with it and it's played off as a joke. Sure, Benji flings enough insults to make a French man laugh, but none of them are really taken seriously by anyone (especially that dress scene. That was wrong and no one ever apologized in the slightest, even Peter). I need some retribution and I need some W's for me to ride or die for a ship.

That all being said, that's one of the reasons why I LOVE Noah (and Ali). Noah, while being super introverted (from what I've seen), he's still not taking shit from anyone. AND ALI RESPECTS IT 👏👏. I like myself a relationship built off of genuine pure-bred respect. That's why I love enemies to lovers or rivals to lovers (even though idk if YWIMC counts as either. Could be wrong tho). Most of the time in those two tropes, the romance stems from genuine (although begrudging) RESPECT. And respect and pity are two different things. 'Aw poor *insert character here*' also isn't a good relationship foundation. If the relationship isn't built off of long-standing respect of the 'I see you as my equal' caliber, I don't want it.

I would also like to voice my love for Noah in a separate paragraph, cause I kinda just yapped about the relationship lol. Noah, as I mentioned, doesn't take shit from NOBODY. 'Introverted' sure as hell doesn't mean pushover when it comes to Noah. And, for every ounce of not taking shit, there's an equal amount of softness towards those he loves. You need an equal balance for a delicious romance and he does it perfectly 🤌🤌. I also like that, while he isn't the strongest physically, he's still not a pathetic mop of a character. He earns his wins through his own means and HE DESERVES IT. Even when he has help, he's not the ever constant damsel in distress waiting for his big strong boyfriend to save him. He does something, he tries his best, and I respect him for it.

And i would like to end this with saying I love Peter Hart, even though ik it sounded like I was hating lol. It was a really fun read and funny a lot of times. Ig getting away with assholery just strikes a sore spot 😂

One last side note: I will definitely be reading YWIMC when it comes out if you can't tell (and also sorry for the rant)

I am absolutely in love with this post!! Thank you so much for making it!! Don’t ever feel bad for voicing an opinion of my characters! In fact, I am so happy to see Noah get some genuine love!! This post gave me the goofiest smile and I appreciate you making it 💛✨

Noah has a soft spot in my own heart because of his jaded “front,” but he’s not afraid to let his vulnerability show….ESPECIALLY around Ali. Noah has trouble expressing his emotions due to his ASD, so seeing him make genuine wins and setting firm boundaries with people make us go, “YES! Don’t take shit from anyone! 👏 👏 👏”

One of the main themes of YWIMC is stepping outside of comfort zones and letting rigid barriers fall (in Noah’s case) whereas the lesson that Ali learns is that you can love someone regardless of your upbringing, and to eventually get over fears of attachment.

Seeing so much love for Noah is genuinely heartwarming, and I thank you so much for making this ask! 💫

(And Peter is such an asshole lmao. Entertaining, but an asshole nonetheless. This is a totally valid criticism of his character 😂✨)

[sm0shfan]

kinda getting fed up with how smosh is handling/has handled the noah situations. Like for a while there when they introduced Trevor and Noah was missing from videos, I thought maybe they were doing something internally that we would see the results of later - maybe not Noah’s contract being terminated or whatever but some sort of acknowledgment and accountably.

But we haven’t seen anything like that, they’ve been deleting comments asking about Palestine/Noah’s behaviour, and they also haven’t said anything about Palestine as far as I’m aware.

And I just think it weird ya know ? Cos from what I saw what happened was noah liked a bunch of zionist propaganda-y posts, and made a tweet regarding october 7th, claiming he did so because he’s pro-civilian… but like if you want me to in good faith believe you are really pro civilian, and fell for propaganda or whatever the unliking of tweets was, then why did you not at least put in some effort to show you care about ALL the effected civilians, and not just the Israeli civilians ? Like if you’re going to claim neutrality, and say you’re just pro civilian then you can’t only speak up about one side’s civilians.

And as for smosh as a company… like ok maybe they can’t fire him based solely on political stances or watever, idk how that shit works and I’m not going to claim to. But man that doesn’t stop you as a company from talking about Palestine, and not even in a ‘hey we’re acknowledging one of our staff said some stuff and we’re letting you know that’s not our company’s stand point’ way. but just in a ‘hey there’s a shitty thing happening right now and we’re gonna do a live stream or something to donate to Palestinians affected by the conflict’. Like you don’t even have to acknowledge noah - I mean it would be better you did, and maybe talk about how internally the situation was handled/accountability, but still.

Idk I’m just finding it hard to watch smosh anymore, when it would have been so easy for someone who claims to be ‘pro civilian’ to actually fucking show that they are (instead of just hiding behind that term when you hit backlash) and for a company which has addressed political issues in the past to at least fucking acknowledged that what’s happening to Palestine is deplorable. You may disagree, but to me, that’s some basic easy shit, and if you’re not doing that then it isn’t unfair for me to assume that there’s a reason behind it.

Fuck man even if smosh did want to stay totally neutral and civilian/victim centred, they could donate to the Red Cross or something. Like the Red Cross is an organisation that is dedicated to being politically, religiously etc. neutral because they have to be in order to be able to help people.

Now don’t get it twisted I’m not saying I personally agree with staying ‘neutral’ on what Isreal is doing, what I’m saying is that if you are there are better ways to do it then to ignore or actively silence people asking valid questions about your employees and company morals, particularly if part of your branding/supposed culture within the company is leftist/left leaning, anti bigotry, anti violence etc.

[lordystrange]

Hey, I just wanted to come here and say thank you for being more nuanced with everything regarding Noah and Israel/Palestine. I’m Jewish and I do come from a Zionist family that doesn’t mean I necessarily love Israel or it’s government, but a lot of people believe in Zionism and for obvious reasons. It’s hurtful, it hurts when people from this fandom who didn’t even know what it was didn’t know crap about Jewish history ethnicity struggle be so quick to say really antisemitic and hurtful things. We’ve heard it many times but it seems like it’s everywhere now.

Noah said in his post he feels fear and the internet pro Palestinian people ridiculed him! He goes to Penn ladies and gents they literally painted a rabbi being h*ng on the side of a building around that same time. There’s scary stuff out here being done to Jews and making fun of Jewish people who say they are afraid is so insensitive. Nobody is saying they are more afraid then the gazans, and to think it’s some malicious effort on our part to compare pain and fear is WRONG. we are all hurting from what happened since Oct 7. I just wish people valued Jewish lives. many hostages are still taken and many died in the nova festival. We should value both sides.

Black and white thinking has gotten us no where and it creates further hatred further miscommunication. Israel and Palestine will never be a easy conflict it has history it has perspectives, it has unfortunately really distasteful politics and war mongering leaders from both sides.

Hi!

I’m glad you’ve found my posts and liked them. Honestly, I have many more in my drafts but I don’t wanna cause a shitstorm. But then again, I do wanna lead people to more nuanced way of thinking.

I think one of the reasons for my nuanced thinking is that I don’t assume my thinking will ever be done. There will always be more to learn about everything. So I keep all door open and ears ready to listen.

Nothing indeed is black or white. Right things can also be wrong and true things can also be false.

I feel like the more I think about this Noah case, the more I am confused (and less confused at the same time). I am very aware that jewish people have done awful things in the name of zionism and still are. But I have not seen any definition of zionism that literally includes genocide of palestinians (or baby killing as Noah haters believe). And since jews have been persecuted for ages, I can understand the will to have a safe homeland for them. And I can also understand that zionism is portrayed as a very good thing in zionist households, and that would mean leaving out all the horrific things some zionists have done.

Do I agree with the way Israel ended up being formed? No. Do I support what IDF is doing now? No. But do I think Noah thinks ”killing babies (or anyone) is sexy”? Also no. I don’t think he actually wants anything bad for anyone.

I think anyone has a right to want their own country for their own people. It doesn’t make anyone evil. The problems come when other people are being mistreated/killed because of it. Which is what Israel is doing, but Noah is not.

You also mentioned the fear and that is another thing people should acknowledge. Because again, it’s not black or white situation. The fact that palestinians have to fear for their lives doesn’t mean that jewish fear (also for their life) isn’t valid. Everyone here deserves to feel safe. And I support especially the what people call bad people’s right to feel safe because I think that would solve a lot of problems. I doubt any IDF leader is doing this for fun. They are all afraid of what happens if they don’t.

I could go on forever. But my main point with my posts is that nuanced thinking is only helping the world, not hurting palestinians nor jews.

I want to add that I definitely value jewish lives. I’m sorry that so many jews have to feel like their lives are not being valued. And that their caring for each others lives is seen as a bad thing.

Anyway, thank you for the ask! I’m always open for more discussion :)

I’m gonna end this with a quote from Bertrand Russell: ”The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.” (Am I targeting this to those who are so adamant about only one pov… maybe…)

[x3rrorx]

I think some people who see it as weird, and i’m talking about the ones who aren’t just trying to argue with you or make it seem like you did something wrong, feel that way because they feel like BO in particular wants to be so private and since it’s now known that at least Noah doesn’t take photos when meeting fans out and about they feel it applies to even after shows. IMO it is a very normal thing to meant bands and take a photo after shows. Small and big bands. There are even bands who purposely do not do meet and greets and it is not because they don’t want to meet fans but because morally they don’t want their fans to pay to meet them so they would rather go out after a show and meet them that way. Like you mentioned in another post, if a band does not want to meet fans either that tour or that day for whatever reason, someone from their crew will let the fans waiting know so it isn’t an issue.

Yeah, I get that. But also, my post I made with the pictures and video are from when they were pretty active with their fan base and they did come out to talk to us. They did come out to take pictures and sign things. I went to two shows after that one that I posted about, and he was still coming out after the show. He was happy to see us. He was happy and smiling and interacting with us.

I think it’s definitely changed now, maybe he will do it again… maybe not. I really don’t know.

But to hate on me for having an experience years ago when it wasn’t at all like what it is now, that’s not fair. They weren’t as private as they are now. He were happy to come out to talk to us, he was happy to take photos with us. If he wasn’t all he had to do was go into his bus or tell the security guy to tell us to leave.

Bands do that all the time if they do not want to interact with fans — and that is fine if that’s what they choose to do. But if no one says anything then it’s also fine for us to stay there. As long as we’re being respectful to other fans, the venue, the buses, the bands, and everything around us… As long as we’re being fine and respectful and caring there isn’t an issue for waiting after a show.

I definitely agree that there are people that genuinely will vote for “no it’s weird” and their opinion is valid… But I think a lot of it was tampered and fucked with just to be an issue. Sadly.

[allhallowstiel]

so, i’m gonna try to provide an explanation as to why people are upset about will rn, because there seems to be some misinterpretation going on. if you read through what i have to say and you still don’t agree, cool. i just think it’s understandable why people are hurt and wanted to explain that a bit more.

(explanation under the cut bc this post is long):

first and foremost, we know that the show itself did not queerbait with byler. although the show heavily implied that will had feelings for mike, they never strongly suggested that mike felt the same. most of the “evidence” that byler had was mostly just theories put together based on crumbs- and i say this as a byler shipper.

the reason people are saying they were queerbaited is mostly because of netflixgeeked.

egging fans on on twitter:

using the byler tag on their tiktoks:

being unhinged on instagram:

“but netflixgeeked is just a glorified fan account” true! but they have that checkmark and they’re affiliated with netflix

but rest assured, the official netflix accounts also got in on the action!

(i borrowed some of these screenshots from hypnct1c2.0 on tiktok)

for those of you who witnessed the voltron mess, you might notice that this all seems rather familiar. netflix has a bit of a history of baiting fans.

now there’s a bit of a debate on whether noah is also to blame considering what he’s said about byler- and while for the most part i think actors are just people who read a script, i do think it was kind of odd that he would tell people to ship byler knowing that it only ends in heartbreak for will. i also don’t know why he would say that they’re building up byler when the only thing volume 2 did was break it down. i’d like to think it was just poor wording on his part- he’s a kid and probably doesn’t even know what queerbaiting really is, but i do wish he had chosen his words better because i think they gave a lot of people hope.

THAT is where the queerbaiting accusations are coming from. people are for the most part pissed off at netflix.

will’s sexuality

people are also upset because they didn’t feel that will’s sexuality was addressed properly. i think the van scene was clear as day to people who can read subtext, but the fact that i still see people insisting that will has been acting weird because he’s secretly in love with eleven and upset that mike is with her is... frustrating. at this point, the general audience should get it, and they don’t. 

i mean, look at this screenshot i took from an article today talking about unanswered questions in volume 2.

“it’s unclear”. we have people who are writing about stranger things and covering it in their articles that were left feeling like it wasn’t clear. personally im flabbergasted since, again- that van scene was incredibly loud to me, but then i remember that not everyone automatically reads into byler shit. like i mentioned before- there are people who still think will is in love with el, even after david harbour shot that idea down.

but the general audience doesn’t typically watch or read interviews, or read into things with a byler lens. but- aside from a few idiots that desperately want to ship robin with steve for some reason- most people in the ga do know and understand that robin is a lesbian. she never explicitly said the word lesbian, she didn’t get up and wave a pride flag around- but we all got it. for some reason, the message that will is gay isn’t getting to people. we still have people insisting that he’s in love with el, or that he just “doesn’t wanna grow up”.

now it’s important to note here that will isn’t any less valid just because he’s not out, but there is more than one way to indicate that a character is gay. no one is asking for will to start waving a pride flag around in indiana in the 80′s. but i think that this is the main reason people wanted will to get vecna’d- we would likely see vecna taunting will over his feelings for mike, which would confirm his sexuality without having him come out to anyone. i think what fans wanted was more of something along those lines- no one wants will to put his safety at risk and no one thinks will is any less valid for not being out. the anger all comes out of love for the character- it’s just that sometimes that anger ends up being misdirected because people don’t know who to be angry at. 

there are some fans that feel represented by will, since having a crush on your straight best friend is a relatable and common experience for closeted kids. there are others who are frustrated with the ambiguity. both of these feelings are valid and i believe they can coexist.

what i think is going on with this is that the duffers assumed the van scene and that hug with jonathan would be enough to clue the general audience in. it wasn’t, and now will fans are frustrated at having to defend will being gay for another two or three years while we wait for season 5.

but i will say that anyone saying “we got the van scene, what more do you want” needs to just Not, because despite how loud that scene was, his struggle with his sexuality is far from over, and there are some things that i think season 5 needs to deliver on. it just fucking sucks that it turns out we have to wait again- and we have to hope that what we get is worth the wait.

the painting

now this is the biggest thing that most people are angry about. people are angry that will’s feelings for mike were essentially used to push mike and el back together. 

yes, will made the choice to lie about the painting. but i honestly don’t think mike would’ve put it together even if will hadn’t lied. he clearly doesn’t remember the letter, because if he did, he would’ve seen through will’s lie right away. if he can’t remember what el said in the letter, then i don’t think he would read into the painting if im being honest.

but even putting the painting aside- which is beyond frustrating since it was hyped up as this important thing between mike and will, not mike and el- all of mike and will’s scenes this season were just them talking about el. will spent the entire season trying to fix mike and el’s relationship despite how much it’s absolutely breaking him- and he doesn’t get jack fucking shit for it. no closure, no self-acceptance, no character growth- just angst for the sake of angst. 

and the worst part is that he’s always going to be exposed to their relationship because el is now his sister. he’s trapped. he’s always going to see them together and wish it could be him in el’s place. it feels like they’ve made him miserable and they’re never gonna let him move on. 

queer characters should never be used to strengthen or push a straight relationship. mike did not need to be involved in will’s coming out storyline. that’s why i feel like they only did it for the drama. will could’ve easily started having feelings for a guy at his new school. but honestly, at the rate they’re going, i feel like the most we’ll get is a five second shot in the last episode of him and his boyfriend.

it’s disgusting that will’s feelings were used for mlvn. his feelings were not treated with any sort of respect or decency. we deserved at least one fucking scene of them this season that wasn’t will pushing mike to be with el.

-

so, yeah. hopefully this post gives you some insight on the real reasons people are upset, because a lot of things are being wildly misinterpreted rn and i wanted to set the record straight.

[superrman]

I got a couple asks about my reply to an ask where I said that I acknowledge cop propaganda in procedural’s, and believe that everyone falls for it, while still acknowledging that I have enjoyed those shows. More than one ask said they are fully aware of the propaganda and so they can still watch those said shows, this is something I want to expand on because No one is above falling for propaganda.

I have loved and watched cop shows since I was 12, and I also have studied propaganda academically for half a decade, and that is why I can say with certainty you have internalized and fallen for propaganda within cop shows. 

It is important to note that cop shows are designed with the aid of professional police for this exact purpose, they are insanely important to the normalization of behaviours of police, and justifying their actions, because you as an audience emotionally connect with the characters. 

There are many things that have circulated around tumblr that have acknowledged certain forms of propaganda - the continuous use of violence, in a way that claims that the police must in many cases resort to violence, Trevor Noah did a great small clip showing how many cop shows do this. On top of that the villainization of internal affairs and the entire defence system, claiming public defenders are moronic and don’t defend their clients well, which in turn makes people afraid to turn to public defenders, which in turn results in people not asking for a lawyer, and at the same time paint defence attorneys as evil as well, and an impediment to justice which makes people dislike lawyers in general.

These are all important functions of the propaganda system as it justifies many actions of cops, but there are so many layers of propaganda, with hundreds of cop shows, all with police consultants, all employing underhanded tactics and specific messaging impacts you, below is a small list of things I either personally have internalized or know people have internalized. In brackets I mention just a couple shows I have seen this on, keep in mind many shows do this and they all tend to overlap

1. We as a society all agree that murder is wrong, but how many times in a cop show have you rooted for the police to get away with murder? How many times has the protagonist killed someone for personal reasons? They may find a way to kill said individual in the line of duty and that is legal, and or in many cases personally hunt them down and commit murder, and then the story line is about them getting away with murder,  but at the same time many story lines in the same series say no one has a justifiable reason for murder, and they may even arrest someone for the same reason as they killed someone.

This teaches the audience that you can’t kill for abuse, country, cause, or revenge, but the police can and should kill, and if they do kill it was only for a valid reason

(NCIS, NCIS LA, The Mentalist)

2. The ‘red tape’ and intense scrutiny of police shootings is the worst, and harmful for the police, in general the scrutiny of all of the measures meant to prevent police violence and harassment of citizens is hindering the police. How many shows have you watched where the main character scoffs at the idea of mandatory counselling post a shooting, or is angry by the idea of having to justify why they took a shot and killed a man

(Rookie Blue, Cold Case, Hawaii 5-0)

3. The police are underpaid and lack the funds for the necessary policing measures. This one in particular I internalized to the extreme, I have always held the false assumption that police are underfunded like all of the other services they equate themselves too - but the police departments have more than enough funds as the protests have revealed. Yet, every cop show depicts a scene of complaining about budget cuts, lack of funds, cannot pursue a case because of budget cuts. On top of that any cop that gets caught stealing is justified because if he was paid fairly, he wouldn’t have to do that.

(Castle, Lucifer, Brooklyn Nine Nine)

4. The police can’t save ‘everyone’ in the context of the most vulnerable of society drug addicts, sex workers, the mentality ill, the sad reality is that some people ‘don’t want help’ - it says societal problems are unsolvable not that the police are not qualified or effective in solving society problems but even then there is a plucky do good cop not yet jaded that will try and try to save people, but eventually have to come to a hard realization you can’t save everyone

(Perception, Criminal Minds, Law and Order SVU)

5. The police always work with experts in the field, have the best technology and moreover, experts will want to work tirelessly for the police or the police themselves are geniuses- this is not the case, in fact in many cases police incompetence and ignoring experts leads to false convictions

(Bones, Rizzoli & Isles, all the CSI, Criminal Minds)

But the most malicious form of propaganda is the way in which police procedurals acknowledge the real world political climate and use the criticism as a way to bolster the police, by this I mean, so many cop shows will have an episode of focusing on a corrupt cop, or a civil rights activist wrongfully arrested, wrongful conviction in general, and the narrative will show outrage throughout the system, cops all banning together to undo this injustice, but with enough resistance from some bad apples to make it seem as if they acknowledge the system is not fully functional but reinforces to the audience that many cops can and do fight the system to get the wrongfully accused out of prison, to protect civil liberties and that cops do care and will willingly fight their own to do it .

Moreover, this is shown in the context of the importance of police brotherhood. Being a cop is always more than a job it’s a lifestyle, you can’t stop being a cop, and it’s a part of your identity, so its extra heroic that the protagonist challenged the corrupt cop, it’s as if he or she turned on his own family to do what is right.

There are always episodes about going after the rich and politically connected and how no matter what the protagonist will do what’s right and fight against the system to get justice for a poor, or poc , or down on their luck victim, it teaches us that even though in the news cops might not be able to stop all of the big evil rich people, Kate Beckett or Jake Peralta is out their fighting the fight, trying to take on corporations, it teaches us to go on faith that the police are separate from the corrupt system, and will try to take on politicians and corporations rather than the reality of them working for those same people

Finally, so many cop shows have minorities and women leading the charge to challenge the old guard, usually with the new era of white men, that laugh at the police brutality and incompetence of older generations. It’s hard to ignore the damage the police have done, but every show simply disregards this with a change in the vanguard, newer cops are immune to racism, classicism and agree older cops used to break the rules and where more corrupt but now that isn’t the case. It’s meant to undermine all of the arguments against police, think about how many people agree that the police during the civil rights movement of the 1960s were bad, or the police that co-operated with drug dealers were terrible but no more, cops now are much more ethical.

Propaganda is dangerous, because it is continuous and repetitive, it is subtle and seeps into your life, you internalize things because we all consume media for enjoyment not to subject it to academic rigour, and that's how they get you to sympathize and feel for cops, we constantly watch stories of brave souls putting their lives on the line for us, and of course we want to believe that this is a real life story and reflective of most cops, but we need to realize now that this is not the case in reality, and its not just a few bad apples, but a system that is broken beyond repair, who relied on the entertainment industry to spread and maintain the false face of the police industry to avoid and undermine criticism.

Just remember No one is above falling for propaganda

[takaraphoenix]

Ship game!! What about Nico and Will?? It’s pretty popular, but I don’t think I’ve seen you write much of it…

That's an interesting one in that I have vocalized my reasons for disliking it way back when it first became popular but instead of just linking that, it has been years so I think it's time for an updated version.

Firstly: This post is gonna be properly tagged and not crosstagged so if any shipper comes across it and feels the need to bitch about it, just don't; your lack of curating your own tumblr experience is not my problem! ;D

Now, there are three key factors that play into my dislike of this ship: How it was written, what it represents, how the fandom around it acts.

1. It’s rushed and uncomfortable

In BoO, it was incredibly rushed. They had literally five sentences of interactions before they walked into the literal sunset together. Five. It was just entirely born from Riordan's Noah's Ark Complex, where he just can't let people be single. The series was ending and he needed Nico to have an endgame so he rushed into some random romance with zero build-up.

The way their interactions went down was also severely uncomfortable for me. Will was acting so offended by Nico not wanting to go to camp and be friends in an entitled way that he had no right to be, he downright guilt-tripped Nico about how he had wanted to be friends. Nico has been just so severely traumatized at such a young age and his coping mechanism, as unhealthy as it was, was to run away and hide. Will acted like Nico not wanting to form attachments to people who could potentially leave him again was somehow just an Edgy Emo Decision and not a direct reaction to his trauma. His entire approach to Nico was basically all these hippie posts of "Don't have depression!! Just go out into the sun and stop being depressed!", which is already a bad take with non-medical people but he's supposed to be a doctor (and let's not get into the shadiness of him technically being Nico's doctor).

There is also an inherent "I can fix him" angle to this ship and to me, only few ship dynamics are more uncomfortable than that. If you want to fundamentally change a person's behavior and personality, you... don't actually want to be with this person.

Now, here's where my points overlap, because the following parts of their writing that bothers me also stand for what this ship fundamentally represents.

2. Solangelo is a queer ship written by and for straights

I'm a queer woman and as a queer woman, I want queer wish-fulfillment, not what straights want out of queerness. I'm kind of tired of that, I've been sitting through it for enough decades now. That's, of course, not to say that no straight writer can give proper queer representation, but far too often do straight writers - even the most well-meaning ones - project straight desires of queerness into their queer representation.

Let me explain that closer through this ship.

Nico's been in love with Percy for years and I'm going to do my best to not hijack this post with some Percico agenda; that's not what this his about, this isn't some "my ship is better than your ship" ship-war nonsense. It's simply a canonical fact that Nico has had romantic feelings for another character for years.

A character who, in this medium, is heterosexual. And if you're queer, you've been there. In love with your straight best friend. It's a cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason.

We have also all been well-meaningly rejected by said straight friend.

And here's the straight desires for you: The queer person who was in love with a straight person just immediately stops having those feelings and will then as quickly as possible fall in love with the next queer person they meet to be happy and no longer uncomfortably in love with a straight person, because that thought makes the straights uncomfortable.

Queer wish-fulfillment would be for Percy to return those feelings, for the queer character to get his first love, to not be rejected. That thing queer teens always dreamed about for themselves.

Aside from the wish-fulfillment angle, the pacing is another problem. Let me repeat, Nico was in love for years. But a five sentence conversation with Will once causes a crush on Will and we see him physically turn away from Percy and toward Will just immediately to rebound and actually fall out of love with Percy and in love with Will. Anyone who's ever been unlucky in love will attest to just how unrealistic and ridiculous the pacing here is.

It's also straight queerness in another respect; Nico has been the first ever queer character we meet in that world. He loves a straight guy - and to get over that, we introduce the second queer character. Because heaven forbid there are multiple queers to pick from. No, in straight-written queer romances, there is always that one main queer and then they introduce a second one and the two just immediately hit it off and develop a romance like all a queer person needs to form attraction to someone is the confirmation that the other person shares your sexuality.

Also the notable gay guy on gay guy ship here, whereas the more queer-wish-fulfillment option would have also included more nuance to the queer experience, because Percy doesn't have to be heterosexual just because he has only been with girls so far. It's a very old-fashioned - think 90s and early 2000s - kind of straight-written queerness that there are only exactly two homosexuals and that those two homosexuals then pair up.

And, listen, I'm not immune to these outdated straight-written queers entirely, I have many such ships that I grew up with that I am still fond of because they were groundbreaking at that time and they weren't outdated yet back when they happened in said 90s and early 2000s. I am however a grown woman now and just like I have grown, so has queer rep so I am not as easily baited into falling onto my knees in gratitude for canon rep. You have to go with the times. And this ship, by all that is given to us, is just entirely outdated straight-written rep.

Which, I mention earlier that even straight-written rep can be good. If the author tries. Riordan doesn't really try though; he does the bare minimum when he writes any of his rep - and there have been many, many more qualified voices being very vocal about his depiction of people of color and, as a woman, I've been vocal about his depiction of women. I don't want to derail this post with all of that, but I do think that it bears mentioning that Riordan doing rep but only doing a bare minimum and not putting in the necessary work to deepen the representation he wants to give is a repeating pattern that has been pointed out many times by now.

(I’d also like to point out that no, it is not just the ship and not just the listed instances that make it straight-written rep for straights. It’s Nico’s entire queer arc, starting with his forced coming out. A severely traumatizing event that is completely brushed over because the straight author doesn’t understand the impact this has on queer people. Not to mention the framework; Nico’s coming out isn’t Nico’s story, it happens in Jason’s POV, it is given to us through the POV of the straight bystander who gets to be Best Ally by assuring Nico that being gay is okay. This kind of coming out is not a queer wish-fulfillment, it’s a straight wish-fulfillment of getting to be the straight savior, the ally to show the gay the light of acceptance. And, additional to the ridiculous pacing of how fast Nico gets over his love for Percy, Nico also gets over years of internalized homophobia just because of, I don’t know, Jason’s few encouraging words and the fact that Will paid attention to him? For a gay kid who was in the closet all his life, the nonchalant way in which he publicly confessed his crush to Percy at the end made absolutely no sense and was written as basically a joke, finished off with Nico literally high-fiving Percy’s girlfriend despite those two never having seen eye to eye before but this is straight wish-fulfillment so all straights are Super Allies, because that’s the way straights want to see themselves, even though Annabeth has shown before just how jealous she can be and she most definitely wouldn’t go around high-fiving people who confess to her boyfriend. Nothing about Nico’s queer arc in HoO felt natural or queer or satisfying.)

Sure, Solangelo on a surface level is big because it's a canon queer couple in a YA book-series and kudos for that and yay for the kids who get to grow up seeing queers in YA books, but I actually do think that kids growing up with books written in the 2010s shouldn't grow up with 1990s levels of representation, because the 2010s overall are actually at a far more nuanced and better level of representation when it comes to queerness. And I do reserve the right to quit on too straight-written and too outdated queer rep in a landscape where I can get more satisfying representation elsewhere; we don’t live in times anymore where you necessarily have to love every bit of rep because it’s the only one you get.

Now that we've gone through my first two gripes, let's wrap this up with the final point, because it also directly ties into this.

3. The new wave of antis hiding behind this ship

A huge part of the fandom is so busy kissing Riordan's ass solely for giving them queer rep at all they think that both the author and the ship are beyond flawless and that kind of attitude is not good. Just because an author includes rep doesn't make either perfect. Absolutely no one is beyond critique - especially not when said critique comes from the very people the author is representing. And even beyond any "valid" critique on the ship, quite frankly, someone should also be allowed to just not like it, without any reasons given at all.

But there is a certain... protective obsessiveness about this ship that doesn't allow a not liking. Very similar to how PJO bore this mindset around Perc/abeth already. It's okay to have OTPs, even OTPs that you have a blindspot for and just don't want to see any flaws in. It is however not okay to then go around attacking people who don't like the thing and mind their own business.

Solangelo's bred a new generation of antis in this fandom. And, particularly with the fact that this post too receives an "anti" tag, I feel like there needs to be a clarification (because tumblr likes to forget what actually makes an anti). Not liking something doesn't make you an anti, venting in properly tagged posts doesn't either; it's the people who harass others, who seek out the content they dislike to then complain that it even exists and who actively try to make others stop creating for it - those are antis.

And with Solangelo's popularity, there was a high rise in Percico antis, who sought it out, were unnecessarily nasty about it, harrassed creators and tried to enforce some kind of "Solangelo supremacy" that won't allow other ships for the characters.

I've been in fandom long enough to be perfectly aware that not all Solangelo shippers count into this category and that there are completely normal and nice Solangelo shippers, but this is a Venn diagram where the overlap between Solangelo shippers and antis is too large to not widely associate the nasty people with the ship itself. (I've been there myself, shipping the very ship behind which a fandom's antis all hid. The second-hand embarrassment of having these people give the ship a bad name is horrendous and I do feel bad for all the normal Solangelo shippers.)

The more often I encountered these people, who made Percico bad (sometimes in wildly ridiculous manners that bent and deliberately misinterpreted canon) and who in the same breath praised Solangelo high, the more tired I grew of that ship. It's a simple game of association, really. You see that linked to the gross and nasty behavior and you start associating the ship itself with that gross and nasty behavior - and with all the things I said before that already weighed into my dislike of the ship, this just was the final tipping point, really.

And that's it. That sums up why I dislike Solangelo. It was hastily rushed, uncomfortable in its execution, it is outdated rep that very much feels as straight-written as it factually is and it does not feel aimed at me as a queer person but rather at the straight audience and it has gathered a cult following of quite uncomfortable people who on their own would be reason enough to avoid it so you can avoid them.

Send me a ship and I will explain why I do or don't ship it

[retired-ceo]

Noco has a ton of appeal imo! The most obvious is that it’s one of those sun-moon / cat-dog / squidward spongebob type ships! That’s a very popular pairing type no matter the media.  Now you may think, why not ship n*wen? And well, noco did come first. N*wen wasn’t a thing in TDI, and nostalgia is a hell of drug.  But other then that, what else is there? 1) There’s a lot of people who dislike how c*derra was handled in world tour. Noco allows that feeling to be validated. If you relate to Cody’s experience, Noco can be healing. Noah is one of the few people who consistently points out Sierra’s flaws, and he can affirm that Sierra’s actions were indeed terrible, and *not* a joke. A lot of noco fics involve Sierra for that reason, in a kind of “right a wrong,” way. To some victims of SA, that can be really powerful. I don’t think you get that in other Noah ships, becaue well... Cody isn’t in them. 2) Another thing specific to Cody is that Cody is kinda... rlly into women. He seems to have a very heterosexist mindset. Which is BAD! And noco allows you to challenge that mindset, because now Cody’s in an M/M relationship. This also allows you to explore Cody’s seeming need to be loved, contrasted with his need to be cool. It’s very fun.  3) Lastly, in canon Noah and Cody have a decent relationship. I wouldn’t call them friends, but they tease each other in a good-humored way. Which is rare for Noah relationships. Most times Noah insults people, they react with violence [Duncan, Courtney, Chris, Alejandro (if you count the elimination), or they don’t react at all (Sierra, Izzy). Owen either gets it or he doesn’t, depending on the moment. But most of the time, he doesn’t really have a reply. But Cody has the potential to match Noah here, because he’s not usually violent, but he can be mean. And I like that. Cody can keep up with Noah. And Cody is also well... selfish/prideful enough to know his rights, in a way Owen... rlly doesn’t. If you look at RR, Owen lets Noah get away with a bunch of stuff. He does try, in the air guitar episode. And it works. But only for that episode. And then Owen just kinda accepts that Noah is a shitty friend. But Cody is annoying and persistent enough that it probably wouldn’t happen. Maybe too persistent, too shameless. It’d a double-edged sword. But at least something would be happening. And it’s not as if Noah wouldn’t argue back. I like ships where the characters challenge each other, and Noco *would* do that, I think.  If you don’t like Cody, (which is understandable), then you won’t like Noco. But I do like Cody, I think. He’s overbearing, but that also means he’s persistent. He’s entitled, but that means he’s optimistic. And that’s the complete opposite of Noah. They push and pull at each other in a way other Noah ships don’t, imo.  Also noco is loser X loser. we love loser x loser. 

there is genuinely 0 appeal to noco (and also cody). usually i can see some sort of appeal in ships i dislike but i can't see anything with noco

.

[wagner-fell]

Mari kicked down the dressing room door with a bang so loud Kevin jumped and spilled his hot coffee cup all over himself. Hearing his yelps of pain, Astrid peaked her head out of the curtain, laughed at his expense then shut it again. Maria ignored that.

They strutted out to where the boys were sitting and struck a pose. “Can I rock cottage core or can I rock cottage core?”

Kit didn’t trust himself to speak. He simply nodded instead. While the baby blue dress with short, ruffled sleeves looked a bit out of place paired with Mari’s bulging muscles, she looked absolutely stunning.

The Merry Hoes were located in the back room of the antique store Kevin’s family owned. The Chu’s just got a large donation of vintage clothing. Mari had just gotten their pay check from the downworlder gym she worked at. Kit and Astrid really didn’t want to do their maths homework. It was destiny.

Despite being downworlders both Blessica and Kevin still lived at home. Mari, though, lived with the rest of their pack in an old Edwardian mansion a few blocks away from school. However the five of them slept over at each other’s place of residence so often they blurred together in the young Herondale’s mind. He could really only tell them apart by their smells.

Mari’s reeked of dirty laundry as they were one of four folks on the feminine side of the gender scale out of the lycanthropy of London, Blessica excluded. Her house smelled like Ube, a type of yam her Filipino parents put in everything. Kit couldn’t complain. Ube flavoured ice cream was the best thing he’s ever eaten. Aside from Mari. Though he wasn’t usually the one… Nevermind.

Kevin’s house smelled of Longjing tea and red wine. A peculiar combination that oddly enough, worked quite well.

Astrid had two homes as her parents divorced at the age of six. Stepping into her mom’s house was like stepping into a cookie factory. Which made sense as her mom owned a bakery and lived above it. Kit didn’t know exactly what Astrid’s dad’s place smelled like, let alone looked like, but he could make an educated guess that it was similar to the Los Angeles Institute because it was in LA too.

After they separated, Miss Yang fled to Devon to dodge the possibility of seeing her ex-husband when they exchanged Astrid. Kit related to her on a deep, personal level.

Now Astrid spent her summers in America and Kit drained his battery on international phone calls.

Her three months in the USA each year helped him bond with her better when they had first been introduced. For example, her ringtone was the Perry the Platypus theme song. Blessica, Kevin and Maria had no clue what it was but when the music reached Kit’s ears, the two sang an epic duet that put Kiss Me More (the second most iconic duet in history) to shame.

“How much is this anyway,” asked Mari, turning in a circle to see if there was a price tag. In the process she sent the fabric fluttering as she went. It made them look more magical than ever.

“There is no price on fabulousness,” said Astrid. She had on loose, black dress pants, a white shirt, and black suspenders with gold blemishes.

“Yes there is,” replied Kevin. “54 euros.”

“54 euros,” exclaimed Mari.

“Well it would have been €34 but you made me spill my coffee and this shirt was 20 so..”

“Seriously, Kev. I will fuck your mom. You think I won’t?” A pause. “Wait, only twenty €20?”

“Oh, I know right! There is this incredible thrift store down on Fleet Street and-”

“Don’t care,” interrupted Mar. She took one last look in the mirror before turning back to him. “I’ll give you your parents' price, not your dramatic ass’s one.”

Kevin rolled his eyes. “Fine. But it’s an extra €10 for the shoes.”

Mari looked down at her tan sandals. They leaned against the door they just excited to take the footwear off. “Racist,” she muttered under her breath.

“I’m literally Chinese.”

“Homophobic, then.”

“Pansexaul,” he sang.

Mari was silent for a moment before she banged on the door into the room Blessica was changing into her rose pink gown. “Blessie! Do I have permission to call Kev transphobic in your name?”

“Hey,” said Kevin, looking up from his task of rubbing a paper towel across his sheer, white shirt. “That’s cheating. Blessie, don’t listen to them!”

The nickname ‘Blessie’ was what her family exclusively called her. She turned red when they had first found out. Granted, it wasn’t hard to make Blessica blush. All she had to do was stand in Kevin’s general area.

“Blessica,” called Mari once again. When she still didn’t answer, Maria stood up and pressed their forehead against the changing room door. “You okay?”

“No,” Blessica croaked out finally. Her hoarse voice was laced with sorrow. Upon hearing her speak, Kevin abandoned any hope of saving his top and joined Mari at the door. Kit and Astrid were quick to follow.

“Hey,” said Astrid gently. “What’s wrong?”

Blessica began to sob. “The dress doesn’t fit right,” she whimpered.

“That’s okay,” soothed Kevin. “We have other sizes.”

“Kev, it doesn’t fit my body because it wasn’t made for my body. I just feel so ugly.” All the other Merry Hoes made various sounds of distress. Kit was instantly reminded of Dru,

He was suddenly fifteen again. In Ty’s bedroom as he told him of all the times she’d been told she wasn’t pretty by members of the Shadowhunter society. And all the times Emma or Julian or another member of her family had reassured her that she was. The thought occurred to Kit that maybe they weren’t Emma-y as Blessica needed them to be.

“It’s just like,” started Blessica, “I started taking Estrogen seven months ago, you know? And I still don’t have anything to show for it.”

His mind was racing a mile a minute. “Yes you do,” he said.

“I do?” she asked, sounding dubious.

“Your voice!”

“You do have a really nice voice,” agreed Astrid. “You could totally narrate audiobooks or something.”

“No it’s not,” grumbled Kevin.

“Kevin,” said Mari, glaring daggers at him. ‘Kevin’ in this case didn’t mean Kevin. It meant ‘Shut your mouth right or I will actually kill you’.

“No, not like that! It’s just…” he was blushing profusely now. “Her voice is like the rain. Most of the time it’s soft and warm and it wraps you in one big, wet hug. You can’t help but feel, well, blessed to get to feel it touching your skin.. But when it rains hard you feel every single drop land. But no matter what kind of rain it is, the impact is always enormous. Uh, yeah, her voice is like that.” There was a moment of prolonged silence, where Blessica had stopped crying but no one was brave enough to talk.

The door opened and Kit, Kevin and Astrid stumbled backwards. Mari didn’t. Stupid gorgous jock, Kit thought as she survayed her inferiourors.

Blessica stood in the open doorway. Her eyes were puffy and red. The dress looked perfect on her. Not that this style hadn’t looked perfect on Mari but their arms were so thick, they filled up the entire selve. Blessica was so petite you could see her bones clearly through the skin. It highlighted the flowness of the gown extremely well. “You guys like my voice?” Then, “why are you all staring at me, is it that bad?”

“Blessie,” said Mari. “You can’t just put on that in front of four people who like women and expect them not to stare.”

“Respectfully, of course,” added Kit.

“Just tell us if it makes you uncomfortable,” agreed Kevin.

“Step on me,” breathed Astrid.

“But then again,” said Mari, “you validate yourself too.”

“Run me over with a cement truck.”

“We can see your hot as fuck. But more importantly you have to believe you’re hot as fuck.”

“You could literally kill me and I’d get on my knees to thank you.”

Blessica was blushing as hard as Kevin now. They sheepishly smiled at each other before turning away. “Simp,” said Kit and he held out his hand. Astrid dutifully rewarded him with a high five.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I am on the trans spectrum but I am not mtf. If you are and you feel misrepresented please feel free to private message me or just leave a comment tell me how I can fix it.

@the-wckd-powers @book-dragon-not-worm @thechangeling @the-blackdale @ithurielkeepsgettingkidnapped @illusions-give-reasons-to-live @shelvesofgold @arangiajoan @maxboythedog @noah-herondale-lightwood @its-taff @cncnbr @sofiatheskeleton @thomas-gaypanic-lightwood @im-not-ruined-im-ruination @adoravel-fenomeno

Let me know if I left anyone out. Also let me know if you want to be added or removed from the tag list.

[sunmoontruth-stiles]

Ok this is gonna be long. I’ve literally been slowly working on this for… too long. I’m just in a mood to have a long discussion about ships. I’ll be looking at canon and not, so bare with me. I don’t ship all of these personally. I’m mostly just picking the most popular ones. I chose to leave out a few that I just don’t want to talk about. I tried to keep this loosely chronological, but that quickly went to hell. None of this is meant to be hate towards anyone’s ship, just my personal opinions on each of them.

Canon:

Scott x Allison: True Classic

Scallison is so sweet as it is truly the epitome of young love. Romeo and Juliet, except Romeo is even more of an idiot and Juliet is a badass who dies for a cause. They’re moral and ethical codes are both highly valued by themselves, even if they don’t align with others very often. They loved with everything they had. They were beautiful. We’re they soulmates in the end, or just the first love who will always hold a special place in your heart? Who knows, but I’ll always love these immature kids who thought their love could change everything.

Stiles x Lydia: The Long Awaited

Stydia is as slow burn as you can get. Unfortunately their actual getting together was slightly rushed in my opinion. They didn’t have time to find their own as a couple because Stiles just wasn’t in the show enough at that point. I know the reasons behind it, but it did leave this couple at an awkward stage of official-but-not-shown. The idea that Stiles loved her as a kid, immature and infatuated, and he saw her for who she really was, will always be cute. Then they grew, changed, became friends, and found other people. Them finding each other later on, having real love that’s developed slowly, is a wonderful arc. Though, a part of me will always believe they should have pursued other story lines in the wake of Stiles’ absence from the plot. They’re finally together! …but we don’t get to see it.

Jackson x Lydia: The Image

Oh Jackson and Lydia. Honestly, I love them. Their connection at a time in their lives when they couldn’t open up to anyone else, just hits me right in the feels. I mean, god that HUG. You know the one. Always brings me to tears. I’m so sad their relationship was almost entirely depicted during Jackson’s kanima time when he couldn’t think nor truly act for himself. Those small moments of scared vulnerability when he wanted to protect her from himself… I’ll miss these two. They deserved to find other people and remain life-long friends. I loved their moment in the last episode. I wish they’d gotten to see each other grow. Also they had such bixbi solidarity vibes, and I’ll die on that hill.

Scott x Lydia: Leaders

Ok, I’m gonna be honest here. I ship it. The power couple they would have been?? Also them coming together after they lost Allison would have actually made sense. A part of me kinda wishes the writers had moved on from Stydia as a romantic relationship and leaned into them growing as friends and Stiles moving on from his childhood crush. Scott and Lydia actually would have had good chemistry. They were both very headstrong heroic types, but Lydia would have balanced Scott out well intellectually. They had the history, and I think it could had worked if they wrote it right. Plus, Scott and Lydia would have been a better endgame that Scalia.

Scott x Kira: New Beginnings

These two were adorable. Kira was a badass, don’t get me wrong, but she let herself be soft in a way Allison was always afraid to. This couple was truly Baby. Absolute dorks. I can definitely see the lasting quality between the two of them. They saw things very similarly, and had a ton in common. I do think Kira deserves more characterization outside of their relationship, like more of her friendship with Malia. Overall, her departure from the show will always be sad to me. It was bad writing. Scott was over her far too quickly.

Aiden x Lydia: Pretty People Herd

I honestly didn’t see much between these two other than mutual attraction. The best thing to come out of this relationship was Lydia’s line, “You’re not just a bad boy, Aiden. You’re a bad guy. And I don’t want to be with the bad guys.” Good character development moment.

Ethan x Danny: Step to Redemption

Danny really was the thing that made Ethan look outside of the pack for what he really wanted out of life. They had a few cute scenes. Gotta love Danny’s final remarks, “Dude, it’s Beacon Hills.”

Allison x Isaac: Unexpected Rebound

Ok, I like these two. Isaac could match Allison’s snark in a way Scott couldn’t. They both fought the progression of the relationship slightly. They didn’t expect to fall for each other. They were less willing to let someone in close. I’d love to have seen more… but unfortunately their time was limited. On a side note, sometimes their relationship did feel like ‘we both are in love with the same guy, let’s cope with each other’, but I find that completely valid. I’ll talk about Scallisaac later though.

Stiles x Malia: Anchors

Ok but, them <3 I love what they did for each other. Stiles was able to help Malia connect to her humanity and other people. He never tried to isolate her in their relationship and encouraged her growth. Malia offered Stiles the emotional support he never asked for. She defended him, fought for him, and loved him fiercely. Stiles needed that so much after season 3. I think they were a love that wasn’t meant to last, but the impact of it was forever. I wish we’d gotten to see a real end for them where they agreed that they needed to grow as individuals but would always still care.

Liam x Hayden: Three’s a Pattern

These two’s characterization stopped whenever they had storylines together. Their relationship was built on Scallison references. Hayden’s character could have been interesting, but they never really gave her a moment to shine. Liam has the worst plots when they revolved around her. Cute couple, poor writing.

Derek x Braeden: Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girl Boss

Derek deserves to be happy so much. Kate and Jennifer were just... jeez. Him and Braeden were cute and deserved more screen time. I think her intensity allowed for Derek to let go of control a bit more comfortably. Let Derek Be Soft. Anyway, love them.

Corey x Mason: Gotta Have That Rep TM

These two could have been cute if they were shown for more than two seconds at a time. I highkey forget Corey even existed all the time. Kinda just felt like a relationship to fill TW’s gay quota.

Jackson x Ethan: The Callback

Honestly? Loved them. Loved the chemistry. Loved the dynamic. Best twist. I know it was probably written in like that because Colton came out during his time away from the show, but it absolutely fit his character. Jethan is top tier.

Melissa x Chris: BAMF Parent Duo

Ok, so like, Melissa deserved this plot. She deserved someone to care about her. However... what the hell? Chris? In canon, his wife died like 2-ish years prior? His daughter died 1 year prior?? Is Chris really in a position to pursue a new relationship?? Also, like, Scott and Allison dated and loved each other up to her death. Kinda weird to have their parents hook up. I don’t hate it, but I don’t ship it…?

Scott x Malia: Lead up? What’s lead up?

These two came out of nowhere I stg. Like, 6B really tried to tell us this was something that had been slowly developing in the background? Also, I understand that they are their own people, adults, and completely in charge of their own romantic pursuits: but did Scott seriously never call Stiles? Like, Malia wasn’t just his first girlfriend. She was his first. Like, dude that’s your best friend?? Not even a head’s up? No, ‘hey would this bother you?’ Oof. Plus Malia was way too chaotic for Scott. She existed in gray morality that always prioritized her immediate circle, and Scott was a very black/white type of heroism. I just didn’t feel like they fit.

Non-Canon:

Scott x Stiles: Childhood Best Friends

Ya, sorry, I don’t ship Sciles at all. I get it. Like, I totally understand the ship, and I mean no judgment at all. I just see them as friends. I really value good male friendships in media because I feel like we don’t get enough, and I always liked these two.

Stiles x Derek: Enemies to Lovers. 100k. Angst. Hurt/Comfort.

God these two really are what fanfiction was made for. I could write a much longer discussion about Sterek, and I probably will eventually. I’ll try to keep this brief. These two weren’t always on the same side, but their approach was the same. They were very similar at their core. Plus, wow the chemistry. This should have been canon. Jeff’s a coward.

Allison x Lydia: Powerful.

This ship is so great. They really had a great dynamic, and a romantic plot would have easily fit the established narrative. Lydia’s confidence in herself and Allison’s confidence in her own abilities crossing over to each other because that’s what the other lacked? Iconic.

Danny x Jackson: He Gets Him

Danny really saw Jackson for everything he was and still cared. I wished we’d gotten to see more of them. I  want more background with Jackson’s eventual coming out and his friendship with Danny. Like, they ended up dating the same guy. What did Ethan have to say about that??

Stiles x Jackson: Bastards

Ok these two had a super fun dynamic. The asshole-energy between them was, great. The snark was always so entertaining.

Melissa x Noah: Family

How were these two not endgame? Their sons were practically brothers already. They had amazing chemistry. The flirting? Not to mention, their timeline would have made way more sense. Missed opportunity.

Chris x Peter: The Opposite of Love is Indifference, Not Hate

Ok so like, this was definitely one of those ships that I had absolutely no knowledge of before I was pretty into the fandom. Like, this was not something I would have guessed just after watching the show. That being said; my god the chaos alone…

Scott x Isaac: The Disaster Duo

Okay ya I love these two. Two dumb asses who act like idiot puppies. Such a fun dynamic. Plus?? Chemistry??? Hellooo

Scott x Allison x Isaac: Three Heads Are Better Than One

This ship is definitely one of my personal favorites. I very rarely poly-ship. I just feel like most of them are just love triangles with an ‘easy solution’, when two of them have no real connection. That is so not the case here. I feel like all of them have such great chemistry with each other. They also have a great dynamic as a group. Season 3A was really just Scallisaac rights.

Stiles x Isaac: I Hate You, jk…Not Really

Ok I loved their banter, but I really just don’t see this ship. Idk, I don’t personally ship it. Would have loved to see their friendship develop more tho.

Erica x Allison: Duo that would stab you with a stiletto

I don’t ship it, but I do wish we’d seen them become friends. I feel like they had a very artificial ‘girls fighting over a boy’ dynamic? They could have been such a badass duo.

Stiles x Erica: Batman x Catwoman

Ok I’m not sure exactly how to express my feelings for these two so bare with me. OMG I love their dynamic so much, and they are sooo cute. Their energy? Amazing. Chemistry? Great. History? It’s there and has so much potential. 10/10. Love them. But, no, I don’t ship it lol. Just really love their friendship, but with the underlying history of crushes.

Boyd x Erica: Was This Not Canon?

How can anyone not love Berica? Ugh they are adorable. These two deserved so much better.

Boyd x Cora: Survivors

Honestly I don’t really see it? Like they definitely had a connection, but it never felt romantic. I really feel like they just had to lean on each other and bond to make it through captivity, and it just lasted.

Boyd x Erica x Cora: The Pack

I literally learned this was a ship a couple days ago. Similar feelings towards this as Bora, but with the added hesitancy of we never actually saw Erica and Cora interact.

Cora x Stiles: Slow Build Up

These two were clearing being lined up to be a thing before Cora ended up leaving. I can’t say I’m disappointed they never happened. Kinda felt like they just wanted to straight-code Sterek.

Cora x Lydia: Mean Lesbians

Not much interaction to actually go off of, but yes I 100% support. They have very different approaches to problems, which is fun. Very ‘opposites attract’.

Malia x Kira: “Maybe you could date the coyote?”

Another one of my favorites!! They really complimented each other. Also, how full circle would they have been? They were introduced in back-to-back episodes. Malia stalking her as a coyote? The line from Kira’s dad about dating it? It would have been so funny if that ended up happening.

Malia x Lydia: Beauty and the Beast, but make it wlw

These two were fun. I liked their friendship, but I don’t really ship it. Though, rip Stiles that would have been hilarious.

Parrish x Lydia: The Cop and The Minor

Must I say more? Like, Parrish’s character, so sweet and big rule follower, did not make sense for what went down with Lydia. I love Parrish, but the dynamic just felt off. It didn’t feel consistent with the rest of his characterization.

Parrish x Stiles: The Cop and The Minor, but gay?

Ok, same reasoning as above, but also they had absolutely no connection romantically.

Scott x Theo / Stiles x Theo: Sometimes The Villain is Hot

Ok I’ve put these together because I have the same opinion for both. I don’t ship it. Neither had any rebuilding of trust, and Theo really hurt both of them. I just don’t really think they work.

Mason x Liam: Sciles Puppy Pack Edition

Similar to my feeling about Sciles, I just don’t ship these two. They had a good friendship, from the little we saw of it.

Theo x Liam: Anchors 2: Electric Boogaloo

Another personal favorite! I really don’t even understand why this didn’t go canon?? The elevator scene was just, so intense. They helped each other grow in 6B, and I really loved their dynamic. They should have hooked up.

Honorable Mention?: 

Parrish x Laura: What’s canon?

I’ve seen this in fanfic a lot, and I actually really like it lol. I thought I’d add it in here because I do love the creativity of fandoms.

[itsonlystrange]

I’d like to point out that the “it’s all just a bunch of coincidence” argument is very poor. People say that about anything they don’t like. If we’re using this argument then I could say that everytime Mileven accidentally held hands or touched or any of that lovey dovey stuff that the Mileven fandom goes nuts over is a coincidence, but I have 0 evidence that it’s a coincidence, I’m just saying it is because that’s how I, a biased person on the side of byler, sees it. And I love the Milevens that actually respect us, it’s just the toxic ones that stomp on us or rain on our parade that irritate me.

So I ask skeptical Milevens, why do you think it’s all a coincidence? Because the Duffers have gone on record multiple times saying that nothing in their show is a coincidence, so it’s odd of you to assume that it is, when that goes against everything the duffers have said.

I see a lot of people claim that all of Bylers very romantic coded scenes are just coincidences with out any real evidence solely because they want them to be coincidences.

Reminder that the duffers had to write, revise, have Noah and Finn read at the table read, rehearse, and then film all of Bylers romantic coded scenes. And do you seriously believe that nobody stepped up and said, “Hey, I think some people will start to ship this if you make your two male characters hold hands and look at each others lips.” Like on paper, that sounds romantic. And on screen, it looks romantic too! If the duffers didn’t want byler to be shown as romantic they wouldn’t have put all of that effort into Mike and Will’s romanticly coded scenes in season two. And sure, one could say they were oblivious and didn’t realize that this relationship could be seen as anything more than romantic and that one of their 100 other writers and revisors and producers didn’t step up and say “Is this really what we want to be conveying in this show when they’re just supposed to be friends?” (Which I doubt. The duffers and everyone else on the writing crew knew exactly what they were implying. And if the duffers themselves didn’t, I HIGHLY doubt that someone didn’t step up and point out how romantic some of these scenes are, especially considering multiple of their writers are apart of the lgbtq community which makes it highly more likely that someone would have realized as I’m sure their gay senses are much stronger than those of the cishet writers on the squad. ) However, byler kind of blew up after season two, so if ST didn’t mean for Mike and Will’s relationship to be seen as more than platonic, then why did they continue doing it in season three? And the thing is, we’re not “delusional” for thinking this. Hundreds of thousands of millions of people have pointed this out across all platforms. It stops being a problem with us and “seeing what we want to see” when millions of people see the same, and it becomes the writers problem for even implying that in the first place.

Here’s an example: take Lucas and Dustin. Sure, there are definitely people out there that think or head canon as either as gay, but not nearly as big of a community as the Byler community. The reason is: Lucas and Dustin don’t have queer coding. They haven’t been painted the same way as Mike and Will’s relationship has. Or Jonathan, yeah, people may head canon as him as gay, or even think he actually is, but he doesn’t have any evidence that really points up to the fact that he is, or that he could be.

The duffers aren’t stupid. They wouldn’t have written byler this way if they didn’t want people shipping it. The official ST writer account has acknowledged byler multiple times, before st3 even started filming. They knew what they were doing. If their goal was to portray Mike and Will as a simple platonic friendship, and that all of their queer coded scenes in st2 were just a coincidence, why would they continue to do it in season 3? Queer baiting is real, yes. However like I said before, the st writing team has a lot of queer and lgbtq+ members themselves, not sure why they would want to queer bait when they’re gay/lesbian/bisexual themselves.

The truth is, byler would have never made it this far if it wasn’t meant to be shipped and portrayed like more of a romantic relationship than a platonic one. They would have shut it down awhile ago. They wouldn’t be so ominous about it. Noah and Finn wouldn’t constantly dodge questions about it unless they legally weren’t allowed to answer them. The duffers wouldn’t have been so vague in the ending of season 3 or in any interviews regarding season 3 about byler. Mike and Will wouldn’t have gotten a whole segment in the official ST book, they wouldn’t have held hands! Seriously! They held hands. Did someone seriously not point out how non platonic that was?———

And use the excuse all you want, “Will was just scared. That’s why Mike held his hand.” Okay, well Max and Lucas held hands when they were both scared in the exact same episode but I guess that doesn’t count because they’re a boy and a girl and Mike and Will are two boys. ———-And it’s funny because you KNOW that if Mike promised to go crazy together with El, that would he in every Milevens Instagram bio, it’d be on merchandise, it’d be everywhere. If Mike said meeting El was the best thing he’s ever done, people would be going bat shit crazy over how romantic that is and how they’re so in love. If Mike and El fought and he ran out in the middle of the rain looking for her when he couldn’t even apologize to his real girlfriend who dumped him just hours prior, people would say that Mike was in love with El and how much he cares about her yadda yadda. But that’s the thing. It’s two boys, so apparently it has to be platonic. Because that’s just how it works in their cishet minds. ——I’d like to see a better argument then “it was all a coincidence.” Because that’s not valid. Why? Why do you think it’s all a coincidence? It’s all just fake? Please. Elaborate. Because if these romantic scenes involved Mike and El instead of Mike and Will, then they’d see. Because they didn’t have Finn and Noah rehearse all these romantic coded scenes multiple times for nothing. They literally wrote, revised, edited, rehearsed, and filmed ALL of these scenes and still went through with it. And even in season three when people really started shipping byler, they STILL directed Finn and Noah to look at eachothers lips. They still filmed the rain fight. KNOWING byler shippers existed and KNOWING this would only heighten the amount of byler shippers there are.

The duffers aren’t stupid. This isn’t a surface level show. Everything they do is intentional, they’ve said it themselves. And yes, I agree that some byler proof COULD just be apophenia, but stuff like this? Crazy together? Looking at eachothers lips? Holding hands? I’m the only one that cares about Will? Mike keeping his eyes open in the final Mileven kiss, those aren’t small little things. You’re telling me that they couldn’t find another take for that final Mileven kiss? No. Finn kept his eyes open because he was directed to do so. The duffers are writers and directors for a reason. They went to school for this. So please, I’d like to see some actual argument against byler other than “they said they loved eachother!” “It’s all a coincidence!” I’d like to see people actually counter my arguments with actual evidence. Not just “Finn says they’re in love” not just “Millie ships it!” Because interviews are not evidence. They’re instructed to create hype for the show. If David can lie about hopper being dead, Finn and Millie can lie about Mileven being in love. I don’t want the argument of “it’s been built up for 3 seasons so they won’t destroy it now.” Stancy was built up for 2 seasons and see how that turned out. And Mileven fell more in season three than it went up.

Anyways,, if you’re a polite Mileven, this isn’t for you. I love you with my whole heart. If you’re just vibing, I love you. Ship what you want to ship! Feel free to counter my argument! However, If you’re someone who calls us “delusional”, leave. The doors right there. The cast has talked about how much they hate the ship wars in our fandom, so if you’re just gonna say how stupid we are, don’t let the door hit you on the way out:)

Sorry for long post lol. Love you all

[ruby-whistler]

This is targeted at your dream apologist post, just to be up front. Just wanted to give my two cents in on some of the stuff w/o doing a whole rebuttal, since… I don’t really want to lol. To start off, I had an issue with how you framed the beginnings of Lmanberg. How Lmanberg formed wasn’t colonizing, it was just independence from the greater dsmp from a set of members that disliked the way things were ran by Dream (and by more direct extension, the rest of the dsmp citizens, namely sapnap.) Dream was protecting his power, not any kind of attachment made to the server, I’d argue, becuz in the end the way he relinquished control was by gaining more; by getting leverage over one of the original members, Tommy, via taking his discs.

Another thing, you shouldn’t be angry at ppl for not feeling sympathetic for a character that’s done such heinous things against other characters. You’re more then welcome to feel bad for him yourself, but no one else has to. After watching the whole of Tommy’s exile arc, it’s very clear to see the Dream was cruel and horrible to a child that hardly deserved it. Dream was dehumanizing to Tommy. Making him put all of his self earned items into a hole every visit and promptly destroying it all, telling Tommy that his friends don’t miss him, blowing up Logstedshire after finding Tommy’s secret room (that he hid from Dream to stop him from destroying it) filled with Tommy’s resources for escaping, not even allowing him to leave, these aren’t the actions of a good person put into a hard place, or a person with trauma dealing poorly with said trauma. That isn’t justifiable. Dream shouldn’t be allowed to hurt and inflict trauma onto another person becuz he has trauma. What he did to Tommy and to his friends (saying he didn’t care about them, saying he only cares about Tommy’s discs, Sapnap even had that sad moment of “you don’t think he meant it did you?” which. Yknow. Look between the lines methinks) was awful and doesn’t have to be forgiven by either the victims or the fans of said victims.

My opinion on the prison stay is…. I don’t really care lol. I definitely do see it as he deserves it, because what he did to Tommy was horrific. I don’t have any real sympathy for an abuser, especially one that does shit that I’ve had done to me before and done against a character I relate to heavily. So. Sue me if I think that Dream should have his shit rocked. Ignoring that Dream had very clear reasons as to why he was put into the prison and the fact that many characters have reasons to hate his guts and also not feel sympathy for him is…. Definitely the Dream apologist mantra. Noah fence ^^

One last bit since this ask is getting real long, but it was narratively cathartic to see Dream actually receiving punishment for his actions. Cathartic quite literally means “psychological relief through strong emotions” so. Yeah. Sorry ppl were getting it mixed up with catharsis, but there’s the word they probably meant to use. Didn’t realize it would be such a crime to mix up two very similar words but what can you do with a younger audience.

This isn’t meant to be an attack, or mean, so I’m sorry if I’ve been a little passive aggressive in my wording, but to be fair. Your post was as well ^^ Cant wait to hear your response, if you feel like giving one.

Alright, so first as a quick disclaimer, I’m going to out a summary of the original post’s points, just to ensure that we’re on the same page;

The post does say:

- don’t dehumanize c!Dream because it continuously hurts people who relate to and/or sympathize with him, also dehumanization in general is an inherently wrong mindset

- don’t attack people who sympathize with him because he’s a victim of abuse besides other things

The post never says:

- you cannot hate c!Dream and not sympathizing with him is wrong

- the things c!Dream has done are to any degree excused

- don’t dehumanize c!Dream because he’s a good person

- people who dehumanize c!Dream are real life abuse apologists

If you read the post and didn’t get these points from it, i advise you to reread it as I made pretty much all of these abundantly clear.

I don’t know why you’d start talking about L’manberg, but sure; I never said it was colonization. I said some people who have had their country colonized relate to him because he had his home torn apart and is desperate to return it back to its original state. This is a completely valid reason to relate to him as it is a pretty big part of the character.

Dream wasn’t protecting his “power”, because he didn’t actually have any power on the SMP besides technically owning it. Before L’manberg, all he’d do is walk around, fix creeper holes and the prime path, jump into conflicts and end them if they got too pointed - he even fixed Tubbo’s house once after Tommy burnt it down, he got unfairly mugged by Sapnap and Tommy because he had weaker armor etc. He never used his position as landowner unfairly and was on the same level as any other member; his only concern was too keep the community united and semi-peaceful. Of course he had an attachment to the server, it had been his home for months, maybe more on the SMP timeline.

Do you genuinely think listing the bad things he did is going to do anything to my empathy or the empathy of other c!Dream fans?

I saw the entirety of the exile arc live, and I saw what was happening, and I hated it, and I hated c!Dream. Yet I’m sympathetic to him when he goes through a similar situation, perhaps because I’m not a biased hypocrite.

I never said c!Dream was a good person. Saying “these don’t look like actions of a person with trauma” doesn’t make sense to me because, as you said later on, it isn’t justifiable either way. I’m not saying anyone has to forgive him. You don’t need to forgive an abuse victim for their prior actions to recognize their situation is messed up. You’re making up points to fight against in your rebuttal that I never actually said.

I’m not saying “don’t dehumanize c!Dream because he’s a good person”. I’m saying “don’t dehumanize c!Dream because he’s a person and dehumanization is wrong” and “people who relate to him shouldn’t be hurt or harassed”.

He didn’t even do “terrible things” to his friends, by the way. Tommy has said like five times that he doesn’t care about anyone but the discs but when he said that isn’t true his friends believed and forgave him. Dream says it once while something that matters to him is being threatened, so that it doesn’t get destroyed, and suddenly he’s hurting his friends (double standard methinks). As if he didn’t repeatedly try to help them and care about them up until that point and they abandoned him even despite his prior actions. He did things that might’ve hurt them, but that doesn’t compare to the amount of things he did for them. Saying he doesn’t care is blatant mischaracterization.

If you think (fictional) people who have done bad things deserve to be horribly abused and have their basic human rights violated, you know what, you do you. Be a fictional abuse apologist, be as bad as the people who say c!Tommy deserved it, go on. I disagree with you however, and I’m sure many people who are actually sensitive and care about/relate to fictional abuse victims (I have seen many c!Tommy apologists say the torture is awful and he doesn’t deserve it, thankfully) will disagree as well, so why should I care about your wrong opinion? If you’ve dehumanized him and are failing to see you’re incorrect and hurting people, bad for you. You’re just proving me right that this is a very real problem that this community has to do something about.

[musingsofanunorgainizedmind]

Supernatural: Unpopular Opinions

This is mostly a stream of consciousness cause I’ve seen a lot of strong opinions and some I agree with and some I disagree with. I don’t know if anyone will agree with any of these opinions, but I just wanted to get them out there in case anyone does. If you disagree, that’s totally fine! I mean no disrespect to anyone who sees things differently :)

1. Both Bisexual Dean and Straight Dean are valid interpretations of the text. Believing that Dean is straight does not automatically make you homophobic. Believing that Dean is bisexual doesn’t make you delusional. Personally? I think he’s bisexual. Either way, jumping onto anyone’s post with the sole purpose of invalidating their reading of the text or name-calling is rude.

2. My own personal headcanon? I think Jensen Ackles take on the character is genuinely that Dean’s feelings for Castiel are “open to interpretation”. My belief is that even Dean doesn’t even know the nature of his own feelings in regards to Castiel. It’s not something he’s ever really looked at too closely, you know? I think the confession probably shook him, but he figures it doesn’t matter now anyway. Regardless of the nature of his feelings for Castiel, I still think he would have immediately looked for Cas in heaven. He’s still his best friend. 

3. John Winchester is one of my favorite characters. Top five, definitely. However, I believe that “Lebanon” and “Carry On” gave him far too much credit. John is far from perfect. But he’s not a monster either. It’s his complexity and nuance that makes him so interesting. On the one hand, he’s a terrible father. He treats his sons like soldiers, does a number on both their psyches, and can be very narrow-minded. On the other hand, he only ever did what he thought was best for his sons, he was a “righteous man” and a hero, and he was working through a lot of trauma himself. He’s very flawed, but he’s not actively malicious. He loves his sons, but he makes a lot of mistakes. He’s a complicated character and I both love and hate him simultaneously. That’s what makes him such a good character. 

4. Carver Era is my least favorite Era. I don’t hate it and there are a lot of great episodes in that time. But this was the Era where I almost quit the show and got so bored that I had to force myself through the episodes. It wasn’t until they brought back Lucifer that I started getting excited again and it wasn’t until “Don’t Call Me Shurley” that I actually started enjoying the show again. 

5. Chuck Shurley is another one of my top five characters (the other three being Dean, Castiel, and Gabriel). I love dorky prophet Chuck, I love absent father Chuck, and I love evil maniacal Chuck. The writing is inconsistent, but they’re all so compelling to watch and interesting for different reasons. Honestly, I just think Rob Benedict is a really great actor and deserves major props for playing three separate characters for the price of one. I still think it’s a shame that they weren’t able to pull off a wrathful antagonistic (but not fully evil) Chuck. I love the meta of the character’s defeating the writer, but how cool would a disappointed and tired Chuck finally losing his patience with humanity and going all Noah’s Arc/Sodom and Gomorrah on Earth have been???

6. I believe Sam’s ending is just as tragic as Castiel and Dean’s. Castiel was never told he was loved and Dean never got to live his life. But the ending I cried the most about was Sam’s. Sam had to watch as all of his hunting friends and surrogate family disappeared before his eyes. He lost Eileen again. We have no idea whether he ever reunited with any of them or not. He lost his best friend and wasn’t even there to say goodbye to him. His son flew the coop. Not too long after, he lost his brother. Sam lost everyone he loved. Sam then spends the next forty years mourning all those who he’s lost and tries to live the life he thinks they’d want for him so that their sacrifices were worth it. It’s just so...depressing.

7. I ship Destiel, Saileen, Dean/Jo, Megstiel, and Sabriel. I feel like these ships can all coexist since they all existed at different times in the story. They don’t have to be in competition with each other. They all had potential and they all ended tragically. 

8. Rufus was the best part of the finale. The fact that the only characters (outside of Sam and Dean) who were mentioned were Bobby, Castiel, Jack, John, Mary, Donna, and Rufus is so funny to me. I mean, I know why, but still. There are so many unanswered questions and emotional arcs left unresolved, but at least we know Rufus is in Dean and Sam’s heaven. Also my favorite headcanon from the DeanCas wedding is that Rufus taught them the Hora and that they did the chair lift because I imagine Dean would hate every second of it and Castiel would spend the whole time trying to calm him down and assuring him that he won’t fall off the chair. 

9. None of the main actors deserve any hate. They’ve all said and done stupid things, but they all seem like overall good people. They’re all friends with each other. Trying to compare their friendships, put certain actors on pedestals, and demonize other actors is just....pointless and immature. We don’t know these people.

10. Canon ends when Chuck is defeated and the author is rendered powerless. Anything after the beach scene is subjective and you can choose your own ending. Does Jack become the new God? Does Dean die on a hunt a few weeks later? Five years later? Does Dean save Cas from the empty? Does Sam marry Eileen? Do Dean and Cas reunite in heaven? Does Sam start a hunting network? Does Sam quit hunting? Does his son get into the hunting life or does he have a normal life? Is the purgatory and empty situation resolved? It’s all up to your interpretation.