#if jon and dany don’t do it then who will? who can us readers trust to rebuild society besides these two (and tyrion. i believe in him)

[throwawayasoiafaccount]

when the long night inevitably ends and the previous social structure has crumbled and both westeros and essos are in chaos, do you want characters who genuinely care about creating meaningful change to be in power, or do you want them to die/not be in power because “feudalism is bad” and therefore these characters who derive some of their authority from the class they belong to cannot hold any power after the long night bc that somehow contradicts one of asoiafs most prominent messages. (despite the fact that many of our main characters suffer due to the current social systems in place)

personally, i’d prefer it if the characters who are able to see the good in the undesirables of society (and protect/empower these undesirables) are able to live on in order to restructure society in a way that protects all people.

to be frank, i don’t think it’d even be possible for the world of asoiaf to return to feudalism after something like the long night occurs.

but the thing is, society needs structure and humanity will naturally restructure itself whether people like it or not. so when spring comes, i want the characters who wish for a better tomorrow for all people to be in power in order to create a better world.

so to everyone who thinks that certain characters being in power only perpetuates the cycle of class violence and oppression, i’d like to ask you what you think is a better alternative way for asoiaf to end.

[jackoshadows]

@nogoodsheepstealing-greatgrandma 

I didn’t want to derail or hijack your Dany post, so decided to make a separate post to what I think is an interesting discussion. 

As I have mentioned in some of my earlier posts, I find Sansa to be a confusing mess mainly because the character herself does not introspect, does not think, does not connect dots, does not proactively try to figure things out.

Which is why it’s doubly frustrating that the same hypocrites who are critiquing Daenerys and Jon for their leadership will write praises of Sansa’s intelligence and political acumen when she is the least political of her peers and hardly ever engages in critical thinking.

And honestly, there’s only so much that age can be used as an excuse considering these are characters in a fantasy world where a 10 year old has been elected Lord Commander, teenagers rule as Kings and Queens and marry young. Dany and Jon have decided that they want to be leaders and so I judge them based on their actions and, despite their age, they have done a far better job than the likes of Cersei, Jaime, Robert, Ned, Cat etc. IMO.

One of the opinions I very much disagree with is the notion that Ned’s warning to Sansa or what Maester Coleman tells Sansa is vague and not understandable when, for me as reader, they come across as pretty succinct and clear in their intention. There’s also the fact that these warnings do not happen in a vacuum, there is always context for a character to put 2 and 2 together to come up with 4.

Here's Ned telling Sansa that it's dangerous for the Starks in KL

Father’s mouth twitched strangely. “Sansa, I’m not sending you away for fighting, though the gods know I’m sick of you two squabbling. I want you back in Winterfell for your own safety. Three of my men were cut down like dogs not a league from where we sit, and what does Robert do? He goes hunting.”

“Sweet one,” her father said gently, “listen to me. When you’re old enough, I will make you a match with a high lord who’s worthy of you, someone brave and gentle and strong. This match with Joffrey was a terrible mistake. That boy is no Prince Aemon, you must believe me.”

“I am looking for a fast trading galley to take you home. These days, the sea is safer than the kingsroad. You will sail as soon as I can find a proper ship, with Septa Mordane and a complement of guards … and yes, with Syrio Forel, if he agrees to enter my service. But say nothing of this. It’s better if no one knows of our plans. We’ll talk again tomorrow.” - Eddard, AGoT

To then add context to everything Ned tells her, Sansa herself is witness to Cersei ordering her beloved pet wolf dead, Joffrey's sadistic mauling of Mycah and knowing what Jaime did to Stark men. It's clear to me that it's not that Sansa did not understand Ned's warning about the Lannisters, it’s that she preferred to ignore it in favor of wanting to stay in KL, marry Joffrey and become queen because she imagined herself to be in love with him. It's ignorant self interest, where she deliberately refuses to see the bigger picture of what is happening around her despite knowing all the facts.

Let us take the SweetRobin situation in book 5. Keep in mind that the Maester here is Westeros' version of a physician. So this is a doctor - an expert in someone’s health - talking to Sansa. Surely Sansa should start with the presumption that this man knows more about a person’s health than either she or Littlefinger does, right? When I go to a doctor, I don’t have to be a medical expert in order to take the doctor’s advice right? And we don’t get any of Sansa’s thoughts on Coleman’s competence as a doctor.

When Jon Snow as Lord Commander implements  Jeor Mormont’s defense strategy for rebuilding the Wall it’s because he trusts in Mormont’s experience and knowledge. As much as Jon was opposed to Bowen Marsh’s bigotry, he appreciated Marsh’s skillsets as a steward.

And while Maester Coleman is indeed incompetent and too scared of authority he does care about helping his patients. It’s a sad parallel that Coleman tried to save Jon Arryn in KL (from LF and Lysa’s poisoning ) and failed and now he will fail to save the son  as well. Recall that Pycelle was of the opinion that Coleman could have saved Jon Arryn and that’s why he kicked him out of KL

Tyrion tsked at him. “I saw the tears of Lys among your potions. And you sent away Lord Arryn’s own maester and tended him yourself, so you could make certain that he died.”    

“A falsehood! Yes,” he whimpered, “yes, Colemon was purging, so I sent him away. The queen needed Lord Arryn dead, she did not say so, could not, Varys was listening, always listening, but when I looked at her I knew. It was not me who gave him the poison, though, I swear it.”

The old man wept. “Varys will tell you, it was the boy, his squire, Hugh he was called, he must surely have done it, ask your sister, ask her” - Tyrion, ACoK

Coming back to Coleman and Sansa, from their conversation it's clear that Sansa ignores the doctor's warnings about SweetRobin's health because she trusts Littlefinger to know better that the politics of their situation is more important than SR's health. It’s a case of Sansa putting LF’s guidance and advice above the Maester’s.

Maester Colemon cares only for the boy, though. Father and I have larger concerns” - Alayne, AFfC

Now there can be an entire separate discussion on why Sansa is doing this given everything she knows about Petyr Baelish so far - Lysa’s confession about Jon Arryn’s death, LF being the last person she knows had Jeyne Poole, his role in the murder of Joffrey and framing Tyrion etc. Given that Sansa never introspects on all this we have to assume she is once again deliberately ignoring the truths right in front of her for whatever reason.

This is also why it’s mind boggling when this fandom takes away Arya’s critical thinking skills to prop Sansa up as the smart Stark. At 9, Arya is able to rightly guess that Cersei would harm Nymeria for what she did to Joffrey and drives her away.

Only she kept following, and finally we had to throw rocks. I hit her twice. She whined and looked at me and I felt so ’shamed, but it was right, wasn’t it? The queen would have killed her.” - Arya, AGoT 

When Jaqen has Weese mauled by his dog, Arya is able to connect the dots and deduct that the supernatural is involved. Again, remember she is only 9/10 here.

She had been avoiding the Lorathi since Weese’s death. Chiswyck had been easy,  anyone could push a man off the wallwalk, but Weese had raised that  ugly spotted dog from a pup, and only some dark magic could have turned  the animal against him. Yoren found Jaqen in a black cell, the same as Rorge and Biter, she remembered. Jaqen did something horrible and Yoren knew, that’s why he kept him in chains. If the Lorathi was a wizard, Rorge and Biter could be demons he called up from some hell, not men at all  - Arya, ACoK

So is Sansa gleefully and maliciously having SR poisoned? No. Does Sansa care for SR's wellbeing here? Also no.

I write about how SR is most probably suffering from epileptic seizures in this post and the Maester's solution for this is to keep him as calm as possible. Excitement leads to shaking and seizures, which requires the Maester to dose the child with more SweetSleep, dangerous in the long term. For Sansa however, it is important that SweetRobin show up in front of the lords looking normal - even though the boy has a disabling condition.

So the doctor tells Sansa that to keep SR calm, he would dose him with the less dangerous milk of poppy. Sansa refuses because appearances are more important.

“Good. That is good.” His chain clinked softly as he bobbed his head, atop a ridiculously long and skinny neck. “This descent… my lady, it might be safest if I mixed his lordship some milk of the poppy. Mya Stone could lash him over the back of her most surefooted mule whilst he slumbered.” “The Lord of the Eyrie cannot descend from his mountain tied up like a sack of barleycorn.” Of that Alayne was certain. They dare not let the full extent of Robert’s frailty and cowardice become too widely known, her father had warned her. I wish he were here. He would know what to do. - Alayne, AFfC

No doubt the Maester is scared of LF (And is most probably going to be framed for SR's death by LF), and yet he perseveres to make Sansa understand that it's these feasts/events that's making SR have seizures requiring the sweetsleep.

“Give his lordship a cup of sweetmilk,” she told the maester. “That will stop him from shaking on the journey down.”

“He had a cup not three days past,” Colemon objected.

“And wanted another last night, which you refused him.”

“It was too soon. My lady, you do not understand. As I’ve told the Lord Protector, a pinch of sweetsleep will prevent the shaking, but it does not leave the flesh, and in time . . .”

“Time will not matter if his lordship has a shaking fit and falls off the mountain. If my father were here, I know he would tell you to keep Lord Robert calm at all costs.”

I try, my lady, yet his fits grow ever more violent, and his blood is so thin I dare not leech him any more. Sweetsleep… you are certain he was not bleeding from the nose? I must speak to the Lord Protector. This feast… is that wise, I wonder, after the strain of the descent? Lord Robert mislikes strangers, you know that, and there will be drinking, noise… music. Music frightens him”

“Lord Nestor will have no singers at the feast, only flutes and fiddles for the dancing.” What would she do when the music began to play? It was a vexing question, to which her heart and head gave different answers. Sansa loved to dance, but Alayne… “Just give him a cup of the sweetmilk before we go, and another at the feast, and there should be no trouble.” - Alayne, AFfC

Does the Maester explain the science behind how the drug works to Sansa? No. However, I think he makes it clear enough that the drug stays in the flesh and is dangerous to a person’s health.

And again, we know that Sansa understands what the Maester is telling her regarding the SweetSleep -

“Very well.” They paused at the foot of the stairs. “But this must be the last. For half a year, or longer.”

“You had best take that up with the Lord Protector.” Maester Colemon cares only for the boy, though. Father and I have larger concerns” - Alayne, AFfC

Then at the end of this same chapter, Littlefinger has a monologue where he tells her why they are doing what they are doing.

He turned her hand over and lightly kissed her wrist. “So tell me, sweetling—why is Harry the Heir?”

Her eyes widened. “He is not Lady Waynwood’s heir. He’s Robert’s heir. If Robert were to die . . .”

Petyr arched an eyebrow. “When Robert dies. Our poor brave Sweetrobin is such a sickly boy, it is only a matter of time. When Robert dies, Harry the Heir becomes Lord Harrold, Defender of the Vale and Lord of the Eyrie. Jon Arryn’s bannermen will never love me, nor our silly, shaking Robert, but they will love their Young Falcon . . . and when they come together for his wedding, and you come out with your long auburn hair, clad in a maiden’s cloak of white and grey with a direwolf emblazoned on the back . . . why, every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright. So those are your gifts from me, my sweet Sansa . . . Harry, the Eyrie, and Winterfell. - Alayne, AFfC

This then leads to the sample TWoW chapter where Sansa as Alayne flirts with Harry the Heir so that they can get married.

So if Sansa expects SweetRobin to live long enough to marry, then why is she seducing Harry for him to offer to marry her when that depends on SweetRobin’s death?!

Which is why the conversation between Robert and Sansa is all sorts of ridiculous because even a sickly little 8 year old SR knows that Harry’s importance in all this depends on his death, Littlefinger has explained to her very clearly that SweetRobin will die and yet Sansa is talking about how his future wife will like his hair?!

If SR is going to live long enough to marry, than why is Sansa trying to marry Harry?

“I hate that Harry,” Sweetrobin said when she was gone. “He calls me  cousin, but he’s just waiting for me to die so he can take the Eyrie. He  thinks I don’t know, but I do.”

“Your lordship should not believe such nonsense,” Alayne said. “I’m sure Ser Harrold loves you well.” And if the gods are good, he will love me too. Her tummy gave a little flutter.

“He doesn’t,” Lord Robert insisted. “He wants my father’s castle, that’s all, so he pretends.”

He does have pretty hair. If the gods are good and he lives long  enough to wed, his wife will admire his hair, surely. That much she will  love about him.- Alayne, TWoW

This is why context is important and the Maester’s conversation does not exist in a vacuum. LF has told Sansa that SR needs to die for their plan to work and WILL die, SweetRobin has told her that Harry is waiting for him to die to get the Vale and the Maester has warned her that giving SR high doses of the drug is dangerous. After all this, how is Sansa going to be surprised by his death? That would be like being surprised when told that 2+2=4.

Six books in and Sansa remains a character who continues to ignore the truths in front of her for selfish reasons. That’s been a consistent character trait for her, from book one to her first chapter in book 6.

So is Sansa actively colluding with LF’s gradual medical poisoning of her little cousin in order for Harry to become the Lord of the Vale? Surely, in the back of her mind she must be aware of what is happening? However, it’s an unpleasant truth, one she does not want to acknowledge and chooses to ignore because it’s more important for her that LF’s plans to get Winterfell for her succeeds.

Does she care for her little cousin’s well being? No. Despite the Maester repeatedly telling her that the drug is dangerous to his health, she thinks the politics are more important.  

Remember in Sansa’s very first POV chapter with Arya and Mycah playing at the Trident and Joffrey showcases himself to be a sadistic ass?

Sansa was shrieking, “No, no, stop it, stop it, both of you, you’re spoiling it,” - Sansa I, AGoT

That’s her primary character trait. She is written as a character who does not want the unpleasant truths to spoil her personal narratives of Joffrey being a good person or Arya being responsible for Lady’s death or Cersei knowing better than her father or that SweetRobin is going to live long enough to marry a wife who will love his hair.

So we can either read Sansa as someone who is incredibly dense, who despite being presented with all the facts before her, still does not understand SweetRobin’s fate - when even 8 year old SweetRobin knows that Harry is just waiting for him to die. Or we can read her as someone who selfishly ignores the truth in front of her because it’s so unsavory and ‘spoils’ her idea of what she thinks is good and right and moral. In that, she knows that SR has to die and will die and yet keeps pretending that he’s going to be fine.

And both of these interpretations are in stark contrast with how Sansa is generally viewed in this fandom as being the smartest, most intelligent, most compassionate, idealistic ‘embodiment of hope’. She’s none of these things.

[shieldofrohan]

One doesn't have to go through GRRM's excerpts and interviews to figure out that he was favouring one sister over the other . It also makes me fear that he might not give a happy ending to Sansa because she harboured antagonistic relationship with his faves ( not being the perfect big sister and not sleeping with Tyrion) . I wouldn't be surprised if he makes Sansa apologize to Arya in ADOS and tell Tyrion how he was a good husband ( just like they made her do in the show) .

Hello Anon,

I once said that Martin = Ned about this favoring the one sister thing. And I think I was right.

So yes it is obvious but as the author he has every right to love one of his character more than the others. I don’t think that he owes us sth. What bothers me is that this favorism hurts the story but we have to deal with it.

BUT I have to say that I disagree with you. I never believed that Martin hates Sansa. And I don’t believe that he is writing a bad ending for her. I think when he was writing Sansa having antagonistic relationships with his faves, he wasn’t trying to make Sansa the villain. Him putting her in the opposite position of Arya, Tyrion, Ned etc was just another POV trap.

I certainly believe that Martin wanted readers to HATE/DISLIKE Sansa and I am sorry but no one can change my mind. It is obvious in his writing that he wanted “simple” readers to root for Arya/Ned/Tyrion. 

BUT this doesn’t mean that he was actually saying Tyrion and others were right/good while Sansa was being wrong/bad.

What I am trying to say is that, Martin’s writing and intentions are complicated and I believe that at some point things got of his hands a little.

Martin totally wanted to make Arya/Ned/Tyrion “look” more sympathetic and he totally wanted his readers side with them while making Sansa look like the problem in these characters’ stories. But this is a POV trap to a certain degree.

Let’s face it, Martin loves playing with readers’ expectations; so him creating an UNSYMPATHETIC girly girl who “creates” problems for fan-favorite characters and writing her as the winner of the story is his way of irritating his simple-readers.

I think unseasoned (I am not sure about this choice of word- I hope it manages to tell what I am trying to say. LOL) and regular YA fantasy genre fans who are only able to enjoy the surface of the text easily fell into this POV trap.

When we look at the Sansa-haters in the fandom we can see that they are local af with their tropes-based basic and boring theories. These fans still read this series like they are reading a simple YA book with mean sister/girl who is antagonizing the ugly duckling/ ugly but good man will end up alone and ugly. But Asoiaf is more nuanced than that.

So I believe that Martin wanted these surface-readers to fall into this POV trap. And he did all he could to make Sansa look less sympathetic one. Martin didn’t want “these" readers to root for Sansa at all. He wanted them to dislike her. This was his plan. Because he wanted to catch them off guard with Sansa.

I believe that he wanted people to like her slowly. I hate to say this (UGH) but he might have wanted to create what he created with Jaime/Theon like characters with Sansa. He was probably like: “Oh, you didn’t like her… watch me challenge you in this and watch her rising while your faves are falling down.”

THE FCKING PROBLEM IS: This PoV trap or whatever was so UNNECESSARY and at some point he failed. Because unlike Theon/Jaime/Sandor, Sansa has done nothing wrong and she never deserved the dislike in the first place.

I can see that he wanted to make her unsympathetic one but his way of doing this didn’t do the job well. I can accept that at certain degree he was challenging readers to dig deeper, but it is also obvious that HE believes Sansa needs to redeem herself a little too. That’s where you can see that he lost the control of his own story and how he fell into a trap too.

He shamelessly admits Sansa had a part in her father’s death without giving a defense or a criticism to Ned’s parenting. 

And I know that he defends his characters when he likes:

He defended Cat when people said she was whining all the time (the question was about Cat and SANSA but his answer was only about Cat… so no defense for Sansa huh?) or when they accused her mistreating Jon (and again he didn’t criticize Ned’s part in this whole Cat-Jon drama).

He defended Dany about causing a massacre in Astapor by telling that she is still young and needs experience and she had "noble intentions” (even though she actually had very selfish intentions and he literally minified her actions… the white old American in him makes him clueless sometimes: LOOK at FIRE AND BLOOD book.)

I mean, he created a POV trap with Sansa BUT he also failed to realize what he actually wrote because he himself believes Sansa needs to learn better and redeem herself. BUT the text screams SANSA HAS NEVER DONE ANYTHING WRONG AND OTHERS SHOULD BEG FOR HER FORGIVENESS.

Now let’s go back to your ask. 

I don’t think that Martin will write a miserable ending for her. I think she will have a happy-ish ending (my fear is what is happy according to Martin.. he can be edgy: "tHEre wAS nO HappY EnDiNg FoR fRODO!!" smh…)

But yeah he might write her being sorry about whole Arya thing… But I hope that both sisters will apologize to each other…

About Tyrion, I don’t know. Sometimes she hates Tyrion, sometimes she says he is a better husband option than poor Robin…

If he writes her apologizing Tyrion, I would hate it but I hope he won’t forget that Sansa is not Martin himself. But I think there is a possibility of Sansa being nice to her abusers (Tyrion or Sandor if they ever meet) to show that how good she is. And I think he might do this to make her more likable in the eyes of these basic readers…

BUT I trust Martin (to certain degree). AND I am sure that he won’t write her a bad ending.

Thanks for the ask.

[megashadowdragon]

Love is the bane of honor

I think Aegon's role narratively is "don't put all your faith in perfect kings", especially not a kid. It's all about the pressure of being a hereditary ruler, the pressure of duty, of others' expectations being placed on a child solely due to his birthright, and of a life sacrificed to duty.

"He is here. Aegon has been shaped for rule since before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows that kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them."

What Varys has said is all about Aegon ruling for others. That implies serious self-sacrifice. But is Aegon truly fit for this? Note how Varys never speaks of love, it's all about Aegon being raised to fulfill his duty, and one that has been placed on him based on his supposed birthright by others, which to us readers is uncertain to begin with and could even become uncertain to Aegon himself at some point.

"Jon, did you ever wonder why the men of the Night's Watch take no wives and father no children?" Maester Aemon asked.

Jon shrugged. "No." He scattered more meat. The fingers of his left hand were slimy with blood, and his right throbbed from the weight of the bucket.

"So they will not love," the old man answered, "for love is the bane of honor, the death of duty."

We have here the literal kryptonite to Varys' expectations.

Aegon is still young and we have no indication he has any experience with women other than being raised by a septa, which considering the faith's tenants has served the opposite interest.

Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man's nature

Arianne, a very intimidating woman, is coming to push herself onto Aegon, yet Aegon's entourage believed the support of Dorne was expected due to their existing blood ties to Aegon, not thanks to a new union between Aegon and a Dornish princess, a union which would also alter Doran's current plans which did not factor in Aegon at all.

A union to Aegon, from Doran's perspective, might also cast uncertainty into the master-strategist's mind; what will Dorne do when the real dragons come? And what if Dany's entourage sends a letter to Dorne along with Quentyn's body, telling them the prince was burned by the dragons he tried to steal? Would Arianne and the Sand Snakes believe it at all, especially if Arianne is trying to put herself between Aegon and Daenerys?

Daenerys on the other hand is preferred by Connington, who says the prince must hold off on any marriage as she may yet come, and he holds no found memories of Elia Martell, which might tarnish his view of Arianne no matter how "healthy" she might appear:

A bride for our bright prince. Jon Connington remembered Prince Rhaegar's wedding all too well. Elia was never worthy of him. She was frail and sickly from the first, and childbirth only left her weaker. After the birth of Princess Rhaenys, her mother had been bedridden for half a year, and Prince Aegon's birth had almost been the death of her. She would bear no more children, the maesters told Prince Rhaegar afterward.

"Daenerys Targaryen may yet come home one day," Connington told the Halfmaester. "Aegon must be free to marry her."

"My lord knows best," said Haldon. "In that case, we might consider offering potential friends a lesser prize."

Pushing lesser prizes onto Dorne is unlikely to be well received, chiefly by Arianne herself.

Connington is trying to shield the prince from doubt:

"I like the sound of that. My army." A smile flashed across his face, then vanished. "Are they, though? They're sellswords. Yollo warned me to trust no one."

"There is wisdom in that," Griff admitted. It might have been different if Blackheart still commanded, but Myles Toyne was four years dead, and Homeless Harry Strickland was a different sort of man. He would not say that to the boy, however. That dwarf had already planted enough doubts in his young head. "Not every man is what he seems, and a prince especially has good cause to be wary … but go too far down that road, and the mistrust can poison you, make you sour and fearful."

Yet Connington is joined by Tyrion's proposal, even if unknowingly, to wait for Daenerys:

"You do not need to win," Tyrion told him. "All you need to do is raise your banners, rally your supporters, and hold, until Daenerys arrives to join her strength to yours."

Tyrion sold the idea to Aegon as follows:

"I told you, I know our little queen. Let her hear that her brother Rhaegar's murdered son is still alive, that this brave boy has raised the dragon standard of her forebears in Westeros once more, that he is fighting a desperate war to avenge his father and reclaim the Iron Throne for House Targaryen, hard-pressed on every side … and she will fly to your side as fast as wind and water can carry her. You are the last of her line, and this Mother of Dragons, this Breaker of Chains, is above all a rescuer. The girl who drowned the slaver cities in blood rather than leave strangers to their chains can scarcely abandon her own brother's son in his hour of peril. And when she reaches Westeros, and meets you for the first time, you will meet as equals, man and woman, not queen and supplicant. How can she help but love you then, I ask you?"

The temptation is that of a mother figure and a rescuer who would fly to him like the wind, her brother's son, a boy becoming a man. Similarly, agreeing to this would place trust in his father-figure's plan. There is reassurance in taking this road, the one of parents he never had.

One way or another, Aegon must chose, at a time when war rages. But there is much room for doubt to keep him undecided, and if word reaches them that Daenerys has hurriedly flown away on her Dragon, could it be that Tyrion and Connington were right? Is the Mother of Dragons flying to the prince as fast as wind can carry her?

Aegon might hear the echo of Tyrion's words:

"Your father knew the dangers of being overbold."

The prince stared at the playing board. "My dragon—"

"—is too far away to save you. You should have moved her to the center of the battle."

Wait, and wait, and wait, but the war does not.

The death of duty

As the pressure mounts on Aegon to either keep on waiting for Daenerys or secure an alliance with Dorne, will Aegon break? And more importantly, if he does, how?

What if this is exactly what happened with Rhaegar? What if Rhaegar buckled under all the pressure that was on him? From prophecies to the duty of kingship.

"Lingering here will never bring it any closer. The sooner we take our leave of this place—"

"I know. I do." Dany did not know how to make him see. She wanted Westeros as much as he did, but first she must heal Meereen. "Ninety days is a long time. Hizdahr may fail. And if he does, the trying buys me time. Time to make alliances, to strengthen my defenses, to—"

"And if he does not fail? What will Your Grace do then?"

"Her duty." The word felt cold upon her tongue. "You saw my brother Rhaegar wed. Tell me, did he wed for love or duty?"

The old knight hesitated. "Princess Elia was a good woman, Your Grace. She was kind and clever, with a gentle heart and a sweet wit. I know the prince was very fond of her."

That answer from Jorah is fairly clear; Rhaegar married Elia out of duty, and maybe a hint of prophecy for all we know. He did not do so out of love.

Remember, Rhaegar thought he was expected to become a warrior. So we have another self-sacrifice for duty's sake:

"As a young boy, the Prince of Dragonstone was bookish to a fault. He was reading so early that men said Queen Rhaella must have swallowed some books and a candle whilst he was in her womb. Rhaegar took no interest in the play of other children. The maesters were awed by his wits, but his father's knights would jest sourly that Baelor the Blessed had been born again. Until one day Prince Rhaegar found something in his scrolls that changed him. No one knows what it might have been, only that the boy suddenly appeared early one morning in the yard as the knights were donning their steel. He walked up to Ser Willem Darry, the master-at-arms, and said, 'I will require sword and armor. It seems I must be a warrior.'"

And there is another hint that Rhaegar may have wanted to move away from the pressure of ruling, although a subtle one that remains to be cleared up:

Prince Rhaegar shook his head. "My royal sire fears your father more than he does our cousin Robert. He wants you close, so Lord Tywin cannot harm him. I dare not take that crutch away from him at such an hour."

Jaime's anger had risen up in his throat. "I am not a crutch. I am a knight of the Kingsguard."

"Then guard the king," Ser Jon Darry snapped at him. "When you donned that cloak, you promised to obey."

Rhaegar had put his hand on Jaime's shoulder. "When this battle's done I mean to call a council. Changes will be made. I meant to do it long ago, but . . . well, it does no good to speak of roads not taken. We shall talk when I return."

But love is the bane of honor, the death of duty:

"Swords win battles," Ser Jorah said bluntly. "And Prince Rhaegar knew how to use one."

"He did, ser, but . . . I have seen a hundred tournaments and more wars than I would wish, and however strong or fast or skilled a knight may be, there are others who can match him. A man will win one tourney, and fall quickly in the next. A slick spot in the grass may mean defeat, or what you ate for supper the night before. A change in the wind may bring the gift of victory." He glanced at Ser Jorah. "Or a lady's favor knotted round an arm."

So I posit that the fear of it all frightened Rhaegar into the arms of Lyanna, who similarly ran from a duty imposed on her in marrying Robert, and as the war began to rage on both escaped away from it all to the Tower of Joy.

Kill the boy and let the man be born

Many wonder what Arys Oakheart's narrative point was. He is a good example of a man who struggled between love and duty.

You know I have no other woman. Only... duty.

Which led him to his death:

Arys, my sweet knight, why did you do it? You should have yielded. I tried to tell you, but the words caught in my mouth. You gallant fool, I never meant for you to die, or for Myrcella...

I believe that as history seems to so often repeat itself in the world of Ice and Fire, Aegon will flee into the arms of love. But whose' love?

Come break of day, they were off again. Elia Sand led the way, her black braid flying behind her as she raced across the dry, cracked plains and up into the hills. The girl was mad for horses, which might be why she often smelled like one, to the despair of her mother. Sometimes Arianne felt sorry for Ellaria. Four girls, and every one of them her father's daughter.

Elia Sand, who bears the name of Aegon's mother, is similar in more ways than one to Lyanna Stark.

"We will see about that." Valena wheeled her big red around and put her heels into him, and the race was on, through the dusty lanes of the village at the bottom of the hill, as chickens and villagers alike scrambled out of their path. Arianne was three horse lengths behind by the time she got her mare up to a gallop, but had closed to one halfway up the slope. The two of them were side-by-side as they thundered towards the gatehouse, but five yards from the gates Elia Sand came flying from the cloud of dust behind them to rush past both of them on her black filly.

"Are you half horse, child?" Valena asked, laughing, in the yard. "Princess, did you bring a stable girl?"

"I'm Elia," the girl announced. "Lady Lance."

Lyanna was also a horse-rider:

Arya was breathing hard herself then. She knew the fight was done. "You ride like a northman, milady," Harwin said when he'd drawn them to a halt. "Your aunt was the same. Lady Lyanna."

And she was literally said to be "half a horse"

Horses … the boy was mad for horses, Lady Dustin will tell you. Not even Lord Rickard's daughter could outrace him, and that one was half a horse herself.

And similarly to Elia, Lyanna could fight:

"Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it.

And we have this in Bran's vision:

Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of the two. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn't be right. If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him. She slashed the boy across his thigh, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout.

Elia can joust, and we all know that the Knight of the Laughing Tree is believed by many to have been Lyanna:

"I am almost a woman grown, ser," she responded haughtily. "I'll let you spank me, though... but first you'll need to tilt with me, and knock me off my horse."

"We are on a ship, and without horses," Joss replied.

"And ladies do not joust," insisted Ser Garibald Shells, a far more serious and proper young man than his companion.

"I do. I'm Lady Lance."

Arianne had heard enough. "You may be a lance, but you are no lady. Go below and stay there till we reach land."

Note the point earlier where Elia surprises Arianne by racing ahead of her? It is a very tempting hint that Elia will steal Arianne's place and become Aegon's love interest, one no one is pushing on him. Her playful and courageous nature might attract him, comfort him at a time of incredible pressure, just as Lyanna may have with Rhaegar before.

But Rhaegar in the end found his courage, and went into battle. He killed the boy to let the man be born. And died.

"Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?"

"That is the only time a man can be brave," his father told him.

But the question, what bravery will Aegon be pushed into?

"Your father knew the dangers of being overbold."

I won't theorize on what Aegon might throw his courage at here, as the above might bring enough down-votes on its own. I'll just say that Elia, the lance-wielder, has a strong connection to Aegon already:

"Vengeance for Oberyn and Elia."

"Prince Aegon was Rhaegar's heir by Elia of Dorne"

"You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children."

TLDR: Aegon's and Elia Sands' story parallels Rhaegar and Lyanna's, and will end tragically. “

[hinamesh]

“Prince Aegon is a man grown, Princess” (Spoilers)

This post that I made on Reddit but I decided to share it here as well.  For those people who think Young Griff/Aegon was just a stupid boy.

It was Lemore who forced the water from your lungs after Griff had pulled you up. You [Tyrion] were as cold as ice, and your lips were blue. Yandry said we ought to throw you back, but the lad [Aegon] forbade it.

Here we've seen a glimpse of his compassionate side. Do not think of him like Joffrey, he gives Tyrion a chance to live on, showing him mercy.

Perhaps you should be the fool instead of me. Trust no one, my prince. Not your chainless maester, not your false father, not the gallant Duck nor the lovely Lemore nor these other fine friends who grew you from a bean. Above all, trust not the cheesemonger, nor the Spider, nor this little dragon queen you mean to marry. All that mistrust will sour your stomach and keep you awake by night, ’tis true, but better that than the long sleep that does not end.”

Meeting Tyrion is truly the turning point of his life. Because of Tyrion he learns to be doubtful and wary of the people around him, he stopped being the naive boy that he once was. As you can see in the future passage after Aegon met with Tyrion, he started to changed.

"I like the sound of that. My army.” A smile flashed across his [Aegon] face, then vanished. “Are they, though? They’re sellswords. Yollo [Tyrion] warned me to trust no one.”

He is not stupid and that naive anymore. He is starting to question stuffs. He didn't ignore Tyrion's advise and actually listen because his advise actually a good one. Showing a bit of his capability as the judge, a skill that needed for a future leader like him.

That dwarf had already planted enough doubts in his young head. “Not every man is what he seems, and a prince especially has good cause to be wary … but go too far down that road, and the mistrust can poison you, make you sour and fearful.” King Aerys was one such. By the end, even Rhaegar saw that plain enough. “You would do best to walk a middle course. Let men earn your trust with leal service … but when they do, be generous and openhearted.”

The boy [Aegon] nodded. “I will remember.”

Fortunately JonCon was on his side, he gave him a wise advise to walk a middle course. I don't think Aegon will walk on the path where he will be distrustful towards everyone like Tyrion's advise, but he will try to be in the middle following JonCon's advise as he said that he will remembered that. This is showing his grown from a boy to a man grown. He has good skill of listening to what is good for him.

This proof with his next action in ADWD, to earn the men's trust.

“The demon road is death. We will lose half the company to desertion if we attempt that march, and bury half of those who remain beside the road. It grieves me to say it, but Magister Illyrio and his friends may have been unwise to put so much hope on this child queen.”

No, thought Griff, but they were most unwise to put their hopes on you.

And then Prince Aegon spoke. “Then put your hopes on me,” he said. “Daenerys is Prince Rhaegar’s sister, but I am Rhaegar’s son. I am the only dragon that you need.”

He is starting to take charge of his own path. The golden company did not just give their allegiance towards Aegon easily, it was Aegon who actually pursued their trust and won it himself, using his words. But some of you quick to dismissed this skill of his.

Griff put a black-gloved hand upon Prince Aegon’s shoulder. “Spoken boldly,” he said, “but think what you are saying.”

“I have,” the lad insisted. “Why should I go running to my aunt as if I were a beggar? My claim is better than her own. Let her come to me … in Westeros.”

Yes, some of you would say he was just being a brat here, but he was not. He was trying to recruit them onto his team, showing his confidence and claim. A bit of pride that a leader must have. And this was actually work. One of the golden company squires, Franklyn Flowers actually bite the idea.

Franklyn Flowers laughed. “I like it. Sail west, not east. Leave the little queen to her olives and seat Prince Aegon upon the Iron Throne. The boy has stones, give him that.”

Aegon is actually earned the man interest and manage to impress him in the process.

“Has the sun curdled your brains, Flowers? We need the girl. We need the marriage. If Daenerys accepts our princeling and takes him for her consort, the Seven Kingdoms will do the same. Without her, the lords will only mock his claim and brand him a fraud and a pretender. And how do you propose to get to Westeros? You heard Lysono. There are no ships to be had.”

“Which plan?” said Tristan Rivers. “The fat man’s plan? The one that changes every time the moon turns? First Viserys Targaryen was to join us with fifty thousand Dothraki screamers at his back. Then the Beggar King was dead, and it was to be the sister, a pliable young child queen who was on her way to Pentos with three new-hatched dragons. Instead the girl turns up on Slaver’s Bay and leaves a string of burning cities in her wake, and the fat man decides we should meet her by Volantis. Now that plan is in ruins as well.

He did not received a full approval of the idea immediately from the group, some did counter his idea, but the other started to question their original plan. Considering Aegon's idea more seriously.

“Prince Aegon,” said Tristan Rivers, “we are your men. Is this your wish, that we sail west instead of east?”

“It is,” Aegon replied eagerly. “If my aunt wants Meereen, she’s welcome to it. I will claim the Iron Throne by myself, with your swords and your allegiance. Move fast and strike hard, and we can win some easy victories before the Lannisters even know that we have landed. That will bring others to our cause.”

These words of his manage to bring the golden company to his cause. He managed to pursue them, they approved his idea, not Varys/Illyrio's plans. An important note that people often forget. It was Aegon who gave the decision for the path to Westeros not someone else.

When all of them began to speak at once, Griff knew the tide had turned. This is a side of Aegon I never saw before. It was not the prudent course, but he was tired of prudence, sick of secrets, weary of waiting.

The side that JonCon himself never have seen before, Aegon capability as a leader who manage to bring men follow his wishes and idea. The tide had turned because of him, he was the one who responsible for the changing plan not JonCon/Illyrio/Varys. I think that was an impressive side of him that we must take note for the future books.

One by one, the men of the Golden Company rose, knelt, and laid their swords at the feet of his young prince[Aegon]. The last to do so was Homeless Harry Strickland, blistered feet and all.

When they knelt before him, it was Aegon's succeed, he earned the men trust. He didn't even ask nor order them to bow and kneel at him, they were doing it because they wanted to.

A solid man, and true, Connington thought as he watched Duck dismount, but not worthy of the Kingsguard. He had tried his best to dissuade the prince from giving Duckfield that cloak, pointing out that the honor might best be held in reserve for warriors of greater renown whose fealty would add luster to their cause, and the younger sons of great lords whose support they would need in the coming struggle, but the boy [Aegon] would not be moved. "Duck will die for me if need be,” he had said, “and that’s all I require in my Kingsguard. The Kingslayer was a warrior of great renown, and the son of a great lord as well.”

This passage again shows that he isn't just a stupid boy, he learns from history and not that naive anymore. He knows what will protect him and not. A man grown who has his own belief and thought of what's right and wrong.

No, I want Duck to stay.” The prince sat. “We’ve been talking with Strickland and Flowers. They told us about this attack on Storm’s End that you’re planning.”

Jon Connington did not let his fury show. “And did Homeless Harry try to persuade you to delay it?”“He did, actually,” the prince said, “but I won’t. Harry’s an old maid, isn’t he? You have the right of it, my lord. I want the attack to go ahead … with one change. I mean to lead it.”

Again, he is not Joffrey who cowardly hides himself behind his army, Aegon takes the initiative to lead himself, ready to risk his own life. (Spoiler TWOW) He does sucessfully doing so based on Arianne II TWOW, where they manage to take Storm's End. I think Lysono Maar has seen his bravery to the point he quicks to defend him from her insult by saying "Prince Aegon is a man grown." which I think as a reader should not dismissed it easily and give him some space to develop as a character.

Bonus, a chapter that showing a glimpse of his fighting skill..

When they fought with mace or blunted longaxe, Ser Rolly’s greater size and strength would quickly overwhelm his charge with swords the contests were more even. Neither man had taken up a shield this morning, so it was a game of slash and parry, back and forth across the deck. The river rang to the sounds of their combat. Young Griff landed more blows, though Duck’s were harder. After a while, the bigger man began to tire. His cuts came a little slower, a little lower. Young Griff turned them all and launched a furious attack that forced Ser Rolly back. When they reached the stern, the lad tied up their blades and slammed a shoulder into Duck, and the big man went into the river

So stop saying he was just a stupid feign boy, he is a character that still growing and hasn’t shown his full potential yet. So please give him a chance to show that in the next book. This person is Dany’s future rival and do you think GRRM will write him as just a lame character? No, I think he won't just throw this chance easily, he will sure use this to make the plot more thicken.

[agentrouka-blog]

Jon and Ygritte - rotten moral code? Nah, just setting up Jonsa.

If there is one thing that had me uncertain if Jon is good enough for my Darling Angel Sansa, it’s this:

He could feel the throb of pain where her arrow had gone through the meat and muscle of his thigh. He remembered the old man's eyes too, and the black blood rushing from his throat as the storm cracked overhead. But he remembered the grotto best of all, the look of her naked in the torchlight, the taste of her mouth when it opened under his. Ygritte, stay away. Go south and raid, go hide in one of those roundtowers you liked so well. You'll find nothing here but death. (ASOS, Jon VII)

Gosh, it was sure bad when she murdered that innocent, unarmed old man. But wow, what a hottie. “Go south and raid”? Raid?? Seriously, you want her to kill even MORE innocent people because it’s such swell fun for her? What the hell is wrong with you??

Ygritte was much in his thoughts as well. He remembered the smell of her hair, the warmth of her body . . . and the look on her face as she slit the old man's throat. You were wrong to love her, a voice whispered. You were wrong to leave her, a different voice insisted. He wondered if his father had been torn the same way, when he'd left Jon's mother to return to Lady Catelyn. He was pledged to Lady Stark, and I am pledged to the Night's Watch. (ASOS, Jon VI)

Wrong to leave her. Hm. Yeah. If that’s your preferred lifestyle, Jon. By all means. 

And, dude, I get that your relationship with Catelyn was very painful and that you never even met your mother, but that comparison is just insulting to BOTH women. And Ned. By all the Seven, get a grip, Jon.

"Who is Ygritte?" Donal Noye asked pointedly.

"A woman of the free folk." How could he explain Ygritte to them? She's warm and smart and funny and she can kiss a man or slit his throat. "She's with Styr, but she's not . . . she's young, only a girl, in truth, wild, but she . . ." She killed an old man for building a fire. His tongue felt thick and clumsy. The milk of the poppy was clouding his wits. "I broke my vows with her. I never meant to, but . . ." It was wrong. Wrong to love her, wrong to leave her . . . "I wasn't strong enough. The Halfhand commanded me, ride with them, watch, I must not balk, I . . ." His head felt as if it were packed with wet wool. (ASOS, Jon VI)

This is one of the few things I find deeply, deeply disconcerting about Jon. This willingness to overlook the murder of an innocent man, to let it be overshadowed by the memory of, essentially, her naked chest. 

Jon Boy, I get that you were a love-starved little bastard weasel and you miss the intimacy of a relationship, but she is literally a cold-blooded killer. And she treated you like a possession. How are you justifying this. 

Seriously, the only saving grace here is that Jon is maybe 15 or 16 and emotionally starved and has zero experience with what a good relationship would be like. Ygritte was neither particularly warm, nor smart (AT ALL!) and I cannot judge the funny. But she most certainly was a violent, murdering invader. And Jon really really really wants to be in denial about that. 

At the worst, this tells us Jon is extremely superficial in his core values. A sham of a character. But that doesn’t gel with what we’ve seen of him elsewhere.

At best, however, this underlines how very very very much Jon longs to be loved, how much it will mean to him when he experiences it. This is the only interpretation that ameliorates his moral failure here just a little bit. This angle also gives us a glimpse into the future.

We already saw Jon mature a lot over the course of AFFC and ADWD. He does still refer to Ygritte in his head as a mentor. But the romantic relationship fades far into the background. He has better priorities, but that longing for love is likely not dead. 

GRRM is obviously setting up something to do with Dany, here. Violent invader open to romance… It’s Dany. GRRM either means to create plausible doubt about Jon’s true feelings if he wants to toy with the reader about political!Jon, OR to set up another bout of actual denial if Jon is bound to Dany on an honest, emotional level.

But. 

The first option will be tricky to pull off, without erasing Jon’s POV for far too long, so why bother for just one short-term surprise? It’d be as bad as the show. GRRM is better than that.

If it was the second option played straight, I would lose all my respect for Jon. And I would find it boring. It would mean that Jon has literally not grown, at all. It would mean that whatever relationship he develops with whatever Stark he encounters before Dany - Sansa, Arya, Bran, Rickon, Benjen, I don’t even care - would not have enough depth to outweigh whatever an emotionally stunted child woman (fascinating character arc, but really, she’s not that interesting on an interpersonal level) can offer him. He would be as ignorant about a proper relationship as he had been with Ygritte. As willing to compromise basic moral standards for emotional comfort and a good time between the sheets.

Or GRRM is simply setting up a contrast.

The fact THAT Jon was having these extremely questionable impulses of bargaining when it comes to Ygritte’s character back when he was a wee little stupid baby, actually makes me fairly confident that he won’t struggle so hard do the same with Dany when he encounters her as a “man grown”. 

Because there would be absolutely nothing interesting about Ygritte 2.0. with dragons. Murdering invader who looks good naked, yay! My family disapproves: what surprising, heart-rending tension. She kills people but she is so pretty: what inner turmoil. She is miraculously pregnant with the fruit of our incest, but I love her, it’s all good. Go south and raid, Dany Darling! I am aghast by your killings but, gosh, so torn because you are so full of.. um.. yeah. No.

But it would be very interesting to see Jon understand the difference between a good and a bad relationship. To track his actual growth by seeing him reevaluate what he thought he knew with what he learns. To see him struggle not with melodramatic denial but with guilt for an emotionally vulnerable monster, and with horror when he discovers she is possibly much cleverer and even more dangerous than he even thought. 

Basically, what would be much more interesting, would be Jon underestimating her, rather than being in denial. Being in denial about Dany’s nature, or bargaining over it, makes Jon a boring, repetitive fool. Underestimating how far she will go, while being fully aware of her nature, that’s the stuff of horrifying surprises.

But in order for Jon to mature emotionally to such a degree, he will first have to experience a relationship that is not abusive but nourishing, and feel loved and accepted. Not even necessarily romantic, but simply close, positive, trusting. And in order to do it in an interesting, non-redundant way that shows us something we have not seen before, it almost HAS to be Sansa. Which brings us back to how very very very much Jon craves just such a thing. So much he was willing to downplay the vile horror that is murdering innocent people because the person who did it had “loved” him and he wasn’t ready to let go of that.

Arya, Bran, Benjen, Rickon, all the Starks already love him. It’s Sansa who’s a mystery box in terms of interaction. Basically, their relationship, in order to set Jon up on a trajectory to stay interesting, has to be a very positive one. It doesn’t have to be perfect, obviously, but overall very positive. Warm, funny, smart. Life-affirming. Embracing.

And unless Jaime-Cersei-Brienne is supposed to be the apex of romantic tension in the books (Love Arianne, but she is not “big” enough to carry the books on her amazing shoulders.) then Jonsa is basically inevitable. 

There is simply not enough emotional tension in a platonic Stark family v. Targ family feud. Certainly not between the Starklings. Why have two Stark sisters unless Jon’s relationship with them is going to be markedly different? Especially with the level of importance weddings and babies have carried up to now. It is literally inevitable that romance will be central. Even if GRRM means to end it tragically, which I don’t think he will, Jonsa will have to be a thing, a BIG THING in order to provide emotional growth for Jon, a contrast to his relationships with Ygritte and Dany, a pay-off for all of Sansa’s romantic disasters and - obviously - for RLJ. Because only Jonsa is unlocked by the reveal of that secret. Because Jon’s main arc is not the road to Targaryen kingship. It’s the road to home and family. There is only one thing in that direction that RLJ makes possible: marry a Stark. And there is nothing to be gained by Jonrya, their love was already perfect. And he probably can’t continue the Stark line by marrying Bran. Just saying. 

In order for Jon’s questionable, immature thoughts about Ygritte’s murdering actions to lead anywhere at all, he will have to overcome them. The most interesting way for him to do that would be by experiencing an actual, positive love story, where he doesn’t have to be in denial about his lover’s vicious nature, and experience actual acceptance and tenderness. You know, that exotic stuff where you’re not threatened with violence, called stupid, angrily yelled at for disagreeing, being shown zero interest in the things you care about… You know, the kind where you don’t have to commit or condone murder in order to be loved. Where someone might actually, I don't know, try and pull you away from the murderous brink. 

So, out of the darkness of those horrifying Jon thoughts about Ygritte, I kind of draw a lot of hope for Jon’s future. 

[samwpmarleau]

1) It doesn’t fit with GRRM’s track record to introduce something as monumental as this, let alone so late in the game, and have it be what it says on the tin. For Aegon to actually be Elia and Rhaegar’s son who miraculously appears at the 11th hour to save the day doesn’t fit at all. Also, unfortunately, GRRM’s presentation of his characters of color is absolutely abysmal. While he debunked the theory of Dany blowing up the Water Gardens (THANK GOD), that doesn’t mean he’s going to magically treat Dorne how it deserves to be treated. A lot of the “evidence” I’ve seen about Aegon being real hinges on GRRM actually doing right by his characters of color and their associated storylines, which is … not likely.

2) The Golden Company was founded by Bittersteel, the #1 Blackfyre supporter who kept trying to make the Blackfyre cause succeed even long after Daemon was dead. The GC has been faithfully pro-Blackfyre ever since, and was even led by a Blackfyre, Maelys, in the Fifth Rebellion as well, which was not all that long ago.

3) The GC has never broken a contract before — in fact, their words have been “as good as gold” since the very beginning when Bittersteel founded it — so why would they now? They would only break a contract for blood (“some contracts are writ in ink, and some in blood”), for a Blackfyre. They broke the contract so they can help put Aegon on the throne and finally complete what Daemon and Bittersteel began.

4) The GC met with Viserys and Dany and laughed them out of the room. Why would they then be all gung-ho for a different Targaryen? Viserys wasn’t even a madman or pathetic when he met with them (Dany was still “a little girl”), Robert had only recently gotten the throne and therefore it was at its most vulnerable, and Viserys was well-known in Westeros as the Targaryen heir. If they were going to support a Targaryen, it would have been Viserys. Or Daenerys. Yet they didn’t. So why support Viserys’s alleged nephew instead? They would only do so because the Targaryen was only nominally one, in reality a Blackfyre.

5) Illyrio specifically says the Blackfyres are extinct in the male line, meaning they are still around, only through the female line, such as Illyrio’s late wife Serra. Aegon being Illyrio and Serra’s son would explain Illyrio’s fondness for the boy, why he’s so sad to see him go, and why he’s so invested in putting a “Targaryen” on the throne. Additionally, he found Serra as a sex slave in a Lysene brothel — quite a long ways down from the favored son of a Targaryen king. It would make sense for Illyrio, who loved her deeply, to in her memory restore what was “stolen” from her family.

6) Illyrio has a trunk full of children’s clothes, despite the fact that he’s supposed to be childless. Good clothes, too. (Those clothes are also blue, the color Aegon dyes his hair. Maybe a coincidence, maybe not.)

7) JonCon notes that Rhaegar’s eyes were “a deep purple, darker than this boy’s,” implying to us the reader that Aegon is not Rhaegar’s. It’s also a hint that JonCon has suspicions that Aegon is not the real deal but is in denial, because if Aegon isn’t real, then that means Rhaegar really is lost to him forever and he can do nothing to avenge him.

8) I’ve seen the argument for “sun’s son” being Aegon but it doesn’t make sense. Asha is called the kraken’s daughter, for one, despite being a Greyjoy in her own right, so yes, it tracks that Quentyn can be called the “sun’s son” despite being a “sun” himself (and it just has better rhythm). Plus, if he weren’t the “sun’s son,” how would he instead be the “mummer’s dragon”? He’s not a dragon, he’s not a fake, nor is he being controlled by a mummer, whereas that fits for Aegon. And in Dany’s HOTU vision, there’s a cloth dragon swaying on poles above a cheering crowd — how would Quentyn fit that either (especially since he’s dead)? But Aegon would. This is also in the same passage as “slayer of lies,” mind you. Aegon is the lie to be slain. The other people in the prophecy are pretty clear as to their identities, so why would “sun’s sun” and “mummer’s dragon” be riddles?

9) The Blackfyres and their rebellions have been developed more and more through the years, including an entire Dunk and Egg book about the second one. Would be a bit odd to completely drop that thread, no? The Third Rebellion didn’t even happen until late in Aerys I’s reign, so it’s not like the Blackfyres will play a central role any time soon in D&E. In the main series, however, they would. Plus, GRRM wrote the D&E book about the Second Rebellion while he was also writing ADWD, and it’s in ADWD that history lessons about the Blackfyres are repeatedly brought up.

10) The parallel between Aegon and Jon. Jon is a real secret Targaryen raised without knowing his true identity, whereas Aegon is a fake secret Targaryen raised without knowing his true identity.

11) There’s plenty of the “human heart in conflict with itself” that GRRM loves with him being fake. Dany gets another family member, the son of her beloved brother Rhaegar — only to find out Aegon’s a fake. JonCon raises a child for over a decade, the son of his beloved Rhaegar, redemption for losing at Stoney Sept — only to find out Aegon’s a fake. Dorne (Doran specifically) gets a piece of their beloved Elia back — only to find out Aegon’s a fake. Aegon himself has believed his whole life that he’s Elia and Rhaegar’s son, the heir to the throne, has gone through many hardships to get where he is — only to find out he’s been lied to since day one. Those are all very real, very poignant beats.

12a) The supposition that Elia would save her son but not her daughter — Dornish Elia, who would value her daughter just as much as her son — is nonsensical to me. I CANNOT get behind that one bit. Maybe I can justify Elia being willing to sacrifice someone else’s innocent baby if it meant saving her own (though that’s a horrible and heartless thing to do), but I CANNOT see a justification for her saving Aegon yet not Rhaenys. 

Moreover, if the baby weren’t Aegon, why would Elia be so willing to die for it? If it weren’t hers, if she had been pragmatic/cold enough to trade her baby for someone else’s, why on EARTH would she not have left that baby in the nursery and gone with Rhaenys, her actual child? The men Tywin sent had a reputation even back then and had scaled the walls of Maegor’s Holdfast. Elia would be dumb as a bag of bricks to think they would spare “her” son and Rhaenys, or possibly even herself. If they were to magically spare “Aegon,” great! Everyone’s happy (except Tywin). But why would Elia take that risk? No. She would only tell Rhaenys to run away yet stay with Aegon because he was her child and she had no other choice.

12b) If Elia switched the babies, then why don’t the Martells know anything about it? They were involved in a Targaryen restoration, Oberyn even went to Essos to sign the betrothal pact between Arianne and Viserys. Yet none of them know that their nephew is alive? If Elia really did take the pains to switch the babies for her son’s safety, why would she not have involved her family? At the very least, by having whoever she sent Aegon with even just hint to her family that he’s alive? But they know nothing. Zilch. They put their eggs in Viserys’s basket, then Dany’s, who are at best Elia-adjacent.

12c) Who would even be able to do such a thing as switch out the babies without a soul being the wiser? Varys, probably, but there is no way in hell Elia would entrust her son to him. Far beyond simply being a shady person in general who is out for himself and himself alone, he was the one who purposefully whispered in Aerys’s ear about invented conspiracies and betrayals. He made Aerys more paranoid, more dangerous. To the detriment of Rhaegar, Elia, their children, and the realm at large. Varys is the entire reason Aerys went to the Tourney at Harrenhal in the first place, because he convinced him that Rhaegar convened the tourney to meet with a bunch of lords in order to depose Aerys. Varys directly and gleefully contributed to Aerys’s further descent into tyranny.

Elia wouldn’t have trusted Varys as far as she could throw him, certainly not with something as precious as her child, not even if she were desperate. Even if she did trust him for some insane reason, how is Varys so powerful as to find a lookalike for Aegon but not for Rhaenys? Surely it’s easier to find a black-haired, brown-eyed toddler than a silver-haired, purple-eyed baby, no? Or why couldn’t he direct Elia to one of the many secret passageways so she could escape with the kids rather than this convoluted baby swap? Or any number of other things? At every turn, Aegon (but not Rhaenys!) being spirited away by anyone, most especially Varys, doesn’t hold up. Hell, why would Varys help Elia? What does he have to gain by not only helping her but egregiously undermining Aerys? Aerys whose ear he’s been meticulously whispering into, Aerys who’s the only reason Varys is at court and has power at all? Agreeing to and orchestrating the baby swap runs counter to everything we know about him.

13) Aegon being real means Elia and Dorne are essentially dealt two blows. We and they spend all this time believing her son was brutally murdered in King’s Landing. But then, psych! He’s actually alive! They get their hopes up, the wound is opened all over again, only for him to … be brutally murdered in King’s Landing. (Or possibly elsewhere, but likely KL.) Why is that better? What would be the point of Aegon being Elia and Rhaegar’s son if he’s just going to die like his “cover story” says he did? Actually, they’d be dealt three blows, really, given that Quentyn died as well in the pursuit of Targaryen restoration. Things are going to be painful enough without having Aegon be the real Aegon.

14) JonCon didn’t come to be Aegon’s caretaker until Aegon was 5. In other words, he wouldn’t recognize whether or not this Aegon is the one he saw as a baby. But because he’s so personally invested in Aegon being the real deal, he doesn’t question it too much. The result is that JonCon, who is well-known to have been close to Rhaegar and thus Elia (proximally, not emotionally of course, what with him hating her and all), him caring for the boy lends viability to the story. Which we see in action by Doran believing, or at least being willing to listen to, JonCon’s letter.

15) The Toynes have a very negative history with the Targaryens (and Barristan) but a positive one with the Blackfyres. Would it not make more sense for Myles Toyne to align himself with a Blackfyre rather than a Targaryen? Myles, who was the one who put his seal to the secret pact?

16a) It’s been 84 years. Even R+L=J, which is as much of a sure thing as you can possibly get, is disputed by some in the fandom. Some people believe Ashara Dayne is alive, and a subset of those go so far as to say she’s Jyana Reed. Some people have some theory about the Boltons being vampires. Like. It has been so long since the last book that things that would have been surprises or interesting twists have been examined to death, so by now they seem “too obvious.” Ten years ago, Aegon being real would undoubtedly have been a much more believed thing, because we’d have just recently been told it. But now? There’s been ample time to parse everything out and to determine that no, he likely isn’t real. Same for R+L=J. Ten years ago, or longer, Jon being revealed to be the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna would have been a bombshell. But now? It’s obvious as fuck. So to circle back around to “Yep, Aegon is real!” ignores the fact that it’s supposed to be a smokescreen and a twist.

16b) Related to this is GRRM’s own words. There’s an SSM where he’s asked whether Rhaenys and Aegon are really dead. He affirms that Rhaenys is but hedges for Aegon. Why? Not because he’s saying Aegon is real, but because he’s introducing the Young Griff arc. If he were to say, “Aegon’s definitely dead, too,” or “Aegon’s definitely alive,” that would completely spoil the tension and truth/untruth of the storyline.

Do I know that Aegon’s a fake? Obviously not, since we don’t have the books. But the evidence points to it being extremely unlikely that he’s the real deal. Like I also said, however, I’m not sure it really matters whether he is or not. So far as he knows, he’s truly Elia and Rhaegar’s son. His name is Aegon, he was raised to be a king, he seems to be quite a decent young man (people who cite him tipping over the cyvasse board can suck it), he will probably ride a dragon at some point, and so on. At the end of the day, who he’s biologically related to doesn’t seem super relevant.

[multi-fandom-imagines8]

Betrayal

Request: Hey can you please do Jon x reader where he cheats on her with Daenerys and ignoring the reader the whole time and is very cold towards her and going to Danny all the time but regrets it and feels very bad after the battle in the feast when he sees her (reader is able to control fire water earth air ice light and thunder and weather and is immune to it like Dany is to fire and dany is very jealous of her and doesn’t like her much due to her dragons taking liking to reader) please. Requested by anon.

Hey can you please do a Jon x angel reader who is his wife and she finds out Jon slept with dany before he even come to winterfell and the reader is hurt and talks to god about what she did wrong to have him slept with another woman . Dany doesn’t like the reader because she heard how Powerful she is and is very kind reader tells Jon alone she knows what he did and she leaves him guilty and the feast Jon and the reader sort things out and kiss dany sees and doesn’t like it the rest is up to you. Requested by anon.

Hey can you do one shot where Jon x wife reader who is pregnant and she finds out Jon slept with dany and admit he loves her which leaves her heart broken but she gives birth in the middle of the battle and in the feast Jon is looking at them regretful and dany notice which she doesn’t like reader ignores Jon but he tries to talk with her she lets him hold their son but Jon wraps his arm around her waist to bring her closer please. Requested by anon.

A/N: these are similar requests, so I decided to make it a one shot. I tried to put all the aspects in it.

Warnings: Cheating, angst, but a happy ending.

Word Count: 1280.

“We need to talk, Jon” you entered the great hall after the other lords and ladies left.

“Not now, Y/n. Can’t you see I’m busy?” He didn’t even bother to look at you.

“You’re always busy. You barely come to our chambers nowadays. What is wrong?”.

“Nothing is wrong. Stop asking!” He sighed.

“Why are you pushing me away?”.

“Because I don’t love you anymore” the words came out of his mouth accidentally.

“Oh! It’s her, isn’t it? That silver haired queen” his words felt like daggers in your heart.

“What are you talking about?” He pretended not to know.

“Have you slept with her?”.

“I-“.

“Just answer the bloody question, Jon!” You were on the verge of breaking down.

“Alright. I did! There, are you happy now?”

“Of course not. Why would you do this to me?”.

“I- I don’t have an answer for that. I- I’m sorry”.

“You don’t even mean it” you left the room crying.

You had just found out you’re pregnant and wanted to surprise him but ended up being surprised by him instead. And not the kind of happy surprise.

In a hurry and without thinking, you packed whatever things you had that you could carry and left Winterfell. You had Nowhere else to go but North. You knew Tormund would help you. He was one of the few people you trusted.

—-

“Is the weather always like this in Winterfell?” Daenerys asked.

“No. It’s usually just cold. I think this is Y/n’s doing” Jon replied.

“Y/n? What does she have to do with it?”.

“Sh- she’s an angel and she can control the weather”.

“And you’re telling me this now! She could’ve frozen you to death when you told her”.

“No, she wouldn’t do that. She has a pure heart. Not once, did she do an evil deed or even have an evil thought”.

“You speak of her as if you still love her”.

“I do. She’s my wife, Dany”.

“What about me?”.

“I care about you”.

“They’re here, your grace” one of the guards informed them of the Night King’s arrival.

Meanwhile, you were giving birth to Jon’s son.

“Is that what you’ve been doing, boy?” Tormund asked Jon as they fought some wights.

“Good to see you too. Where have you been?”.

“Taking care of your wife. You are clearly unable to or won’t. While she gives birth to your son, you go fuck around with that queen. Is it because she’s a queen, huh?”.

“What are you talking about? Y/n is not pregnant”.

“Yes, she is. You fool! She was going to tell you the day you confessed your crimes. She didn’t tell you after that because she didn’t want to force you to stay with her and feel obliged to take care of your child” Tormund informed him.

“Where is she now? And who’s taking care of her?”.

“She’s in good hands. Don’t worry about her. Maybe if you survive, I’ll take you to her. Only if you promise to never hurt again”.

—-

“We’re losing the war” Jon yelled.

Good men were dying and the Night King wasted no time in bringing them back.

Daenerys was fighting on Drogon, while Jon was on Rhaegal when he fell and a bunch of wights gathered around him, ready to take him down.

Suddenly, a bright light descended from the sky and made them all explode.

“Y/n?” He was still unable to see but he knew it was you.

“I’m not in full power. We have to leave now!”.

Before Arya managed to kill the Night King, you were able to surround the castle with fire. The rest of the war, you focused all your power on preventing him from making it snow harder. By the time Arya defeated him, your power was depleted and you almost died.

Jon carried you inside to your old chambers and lit the fire.

He waited by your side until you woke up “I’m sorry. I mean it this time” he put his hand on top of yours but you removed your hand immediately.

“I must go”.

“You can’t. You barely survived. I want to see him. I want to see our child”.

“Tormund told you, huh?... you don’t deserve to”.

“Please, Y/n!”.

“That’s why I must leave”.

“In the morning. You must rest now. Gather your strength”.

—-

After you brought your son to Winterfell, you went outside to enjoy the victory you had. While you were walking, everyone greeted you. You were popular amongst the people. After all, you were their healer and a queen that put her people before anything else.

You arrived at a place that seemed so quiet. No one was there until you heard a noise. You turned around and saw Drogon and Rhaegal injured and resting.

“Hey, it’s alright. I’m not gonna hurt you. Easy now!” You placed your hand on Drogon’s head and he relaxed with your touch. You touched Rhaegal’s torn wing and healed it completely.

After that, you played with them until Daenerys arrived with Jon.

“What are you doing here?” She asked.

You turned to face her. Seeing Jon by her side still hurt you but you managed to seem strong in front of them.

“I was just playing with them. Rhaegal’s wing was torn and I healed him”.

“Who gave you per-“.

“Dany” Jon stopped her.

“Well, then… I suppose I should thank you”.

You nodded and walked back to your chambers.

—-

“Can I hold him?” Jon asked permission as he entered the room.

“He’s your son after all” you wanted to hand him over but instead Jon just held your waist.

“Jon, stop it” you pushed his hands away.

“I’m sorry if I made you uncomfortable. It wasn’t my intension” he apologized.

“Apology accepted” you handed him your son.

“He’s so beautiful and calm. Takes after you”.

“I suppose” you watched as Jon tried to play with the little one. It only made you love him more.

“I’m sorry for everything I’ve done to you. For all the harm I’ve caused. Please forgive me”.

“I will consider it”.

“I do love you, you know”.

“Do you? That’s not what you told me a few months ago”.

“I didn’t mean it, but I had to push you away somehow”.

“Is that your justification for your indiscretions?”.

“No. What I did was not right. I know that. And after I slept with her, I couldn’t look at you. I was ashamed of what I’ve done”.

“Is that why you’re still by her side?”.

“She helped us win the war. Without her dragons and the soldiers she brought with her, we wouldn’t even stand a chance”.

“You forget, it was Arya who defeated the Night King. By the time I came, you were losing. She didn’t help you win the war. You don’t owe her anything, Jon”.

“But I owe you”.

“I was just doing what’s right”.

“Is that so? You could’ve let me die and it wouldn’t have been wrong but you didn’t. Which gives me hope. I won’t give up on us”.

“It takes time to heal”.

“I know. I will be waiting for you, no matter how long it takes. I just hope you give me another chance”.

“I will. But this is your last chance and I’m doing this for our son”.

“Thank you” he kissed your forehead and together with your son, you arrived at the feast.

Daenerys was glaring at you but there was nothing she could do. She knew whom Jon’s heart belongs to and she couldn’t wage war on you. After all, you saved them all and healed her dragons.

Tags: @simonsbluee @marvel-addict-95 @capsheadquaters @bucky-blogs

[6rookie-writer0110]

Wolves will take me home

AU Daenerys Targaryen x Female Reader

Request- Dany is an experienced agent who was hired to stop R. R's organization distracts the FBI by attacking President Cersei's huge weapon base and while that's happening R and Jon sets a power down bomb in the WH and FBI building and as Dany is getting information that's when the bombs goes off and the doors are blown off and in walks R and Jon with an army of guys downloading everything off the system including access to project. Dany shoots at R only for R to catch the bullet with her hand

Jon Snow, your friend is in the car next to Agent Daenerys Targaryen, she will be undercover to meet you. He told her everything how to win your trust and she knows what to do.

”You really look different with brown hair,” Jon said.

”She can't know the real me and my color hair” Dany said.

You don't know yet that Jon has been working with the FBI, for a while now.

”Good point,” Jon said.

He takes you to the hideout and Jon introduced you to Dany. You believe the lies he is telling you because, in your mind, he has no reason to betray you.

”How can you help us taken down Cersei?” You asked.

”I can defend myself and I know a little bit about hacking,” Dany said.

Growing up your parents were activists. They taught you everything that they know and how the government can easily hide their crimes. Your father was a sergeant in the army but now he is on the FBI wanted list, for leaking top-secret information to the public. Since then he has disappeared but you know his location.

Your mother helped your father to leak the secrets of the government. She would lead the protests and she is on the FBI wanted list also.

”Okay. Jon let's tell her the plan” You said.

”Let’s start,” Jon said.

You and Jon explain every detail of the plan. You created an organization to take down Cersei. They will take care of the hacking and distracting the bodyguards while you go after Cersei.

But first Jon will need to set the bomb at the FBI headquarters than in the White House.

----

You are alone working on creating the devices to activate the bombs. Dany walked in and she watches you work hard.

”I thought you might be hungry,” Dany said.

She got you a sandwich and a drink. You put the tools and take off the gloves and goggles.

”Thank you,” You said.

”What are you doing?” Dany asked.

She sits next to you.

”The remotes to active the bombs. Why do you want to bring down Cersei?” You said.

”She is the reason why my father is dead. I do want to watch her world burn down” Dany lied.

”It will happen and we will watch her world burn down. I got the blueprints and soon I will have to start making the bombs” You said.

You start to eat the sandwich and you start to tell her why you became like your parents. She is starting to develop a crush on you. She understands why you want to change the world but how you are doing it, is the reason you are on the FBI watch list.

You worked hard making the bombs and the devices to activate the bombs. You and Dany fell asleep on the couch together. You have your head on her chest and she has her arm around you.

✧ ✯ ✧ ✫

The more you work alongside with Dany, her crush on you has gotten stronger. Dany and Jon do report everything to their boss. Jon and Dany met up secretly

”We have to get those plans. I know Y/N always has something else up her sleeve” Jon said.

”Y/N has more on her laptop. She didn't notice that I saw her type in the password. I will keep her distracted while you hack into her laptop” Dany said.

”I will try to do it quick. Go, distract her” Jon said.

Dany nods. You have someone else working at the White House, you gave them the bombs to set up.

Jon opened your laptop and he starts to work. You arrived and Dany is waiting for you. You didn't tell them what you did by adding more bombs to the plan.

”Y/N, I thought we can get something to eat. Since we have been working hard” Dany said.

”Just let me get my laptop” You said.

Dany would get a text from Jon to let her know he did it. But he needs more time, on your laptop, you have zipper folders and images with secret codes in it. It looks like a normal picture but looks deeper then you see the codes and blueprints.

Dany grabbed your hand.

”What?” You asked.

Dany starts to think fast and you wait for her answer. She put her hands on your cheeks and kissed you. You start to kiss her back and she pulls you closer. Jon finished and sent Dany the text.

----

Since that kiss, you and Dany got closer. You and Dany kinda talked about the kiss, but she has kissed you again. She got to know you on a personal level.

”Y/N, let's forget about the plan. You don't have to do this” Dany said.

Her boss has enough evidence to put you behind bars for life. Dany tries to change your mind but you won't change your mind.

”No. I got this far and I won't back down” You said.

Dany sighed and looks away. Dany starts to play with your fingers.

”If you can be anywhere right now, where it will be?” Dany said.

”I want to be live where it can be cold and hot. Somewhere it will snow” You said.

”Have you played in the snow before?” Dany asked.

”No. I want that experience, hopefully,” You said.

She kissed you and her lipstick is on your lips.

✧ ✯ ✧ ✫

Today is the day to stop Cersei, you are ready to stop her. Dany again tried to stop you and change your mind, but you are too stubborn to change your mind. You sneaked in the back of the white house. You see Jon and followed him, but he didn't notice you. He went into the room and sent a signal to your boss. You pressed the gun to his head.

”Tell me, I didn't see you send a code to your boss,” You said.

”I’m sorry, Y/N. I'm an FBI agent also Dany” Jon said.

”I trusted you!” You yelled.

”I’m sorry Y/N but I was doing my job-”

You hit him in the head with the gun and he passed out. You are seeing red, you never felt so angry ever in your life until now. You left and you are breathing hard

---

The FBI starts to disable the bombs but they don't know about the secret bombs. You are in the office and you are glaring at Cersei.

”Do you really think it would be this easy?” Cersei smirked.

You aim your gun at her.

”I don't care if it's easy or not. But I'm still taking you down” You said.

Cersei isn't scared and she glared at you. Then Dany aimed her gun at your head

”Put the gun down, Y/N,” Dany said.

You don't put your gun down.

”I hired, Jon and Dany to spy on you. They told me about your plans and the bombs. Y/N you are pathetic thinking that you won this war” Cersei said.

Dany doesn't want to kill you. But she knocked the gun out of your hand. Now you and Dany start to fight, Cersei is enjoying the show.

”You used me!” You yelled at her.

”I’m sorry, it wasn't supposed to be like that” Dany said.

You tried to grab the gun but she kicked your stomach. Then she kicked the gun away from you and you struggled to get up.

”I fell in love with you,” You said.

Dany didn't know what to say. But she pulled the trigger to distract Cersei so you can escape but you grabbed the bullet with your hand.

”I always have a plan B,” You said.

You take your phone and trigger the bombs. The place starts to collapse and Dany had to get Cersei out. The swat team arrived but you managed to run and escape before they caught you.

✧ ✯ ✧ ✫

{Time Skip}

You went underground and no one saw you since. You moved to a new country and lived a simple life and got a dog named Rhaegal. But behind closed doors, you have files in USB, in it are secrets from every government around the world. It wasn't easy to get it, but you made new friends and they owe you favors.

When you found out that Dany and Jon, we're FBI agents it broke you. You fell madly in love with Dany. But you felt hurt and betrayed, you tried to forget about her.

Once you told Dany where you would go to escape the law and not be caught. Dany went to look for you but you weren't there. She never stopped loving you and she wants to find you. Jon is helping her to find you and she is using her skills to find you. She is in Ireland and she spoke to someone you used to know but he didn't tell Dany anything. Now she is drinking scotch in her hotel room. Jon called Dany

”I got good news,” Jon said.

”I know where Y/N is,” Jon said.

”Where!?” Dany said quickly.

”I’m going send you the file,” Jon said.

”Good,” Dany said.

He ended the call and one minute later she got the files. She starts to read it over and over then she smiled.

---

Dany drove to the house where you live. She stands at the door, she can hear the door braking. She knocked on the door and the barking doesn't stop. You open the door and your eyes opened wide and your heart starts to race.

”Y/N,” Dany said.

You closed the door.

”I’m not going to arrest you, Y/N. I swear. If I was there would have been a swat team knocking down your door. Y/N, I have been looking for you a while now. I'm still in love with you and I was hoping you would love me back” Dany said.

You don't say anything but you did hear what she said. You opened the door and Rhaegal runs to her and starts to lick her hand.

”Usually, he would growl at strangers. But he likes you” You said.

”He is cute. What is his name?” Dany said.

”His name is Rhaegal. So, that's how you look without brown hair,” You said.

She starts to pet him and he wags his tail.

”Yes. This is my real color hair” Dany said.

You invite her to your house and Rhaegal can’t enough of her.

---

”Y/N do you still have feelings for me?” Dany asked.

You sighed and you start to pet Rhaegal.

”I asked myself those questions for a while now. I thought I knew what I would say when I see you but my mind went blank” You said.

”I know I lied. But everything that I told you is true, I wish it was like the movies with easy answers. I have been looking for you and Jon has been helping me” Dany said.

”I know, you have been looking for me,” You said.

”But how?” Dany asked.

”They told me after you threatened them. Now, I owe them favors telling them not to kill you” You said.

She gave you a small smile. You moved closer and kissed her, she put her hand on your cheek and kissed you back.

---

Dany is staying the night, you two have a nice dinner together. She does want to prove that she won't hurt you again but will take time. You and Dany lie in bed together, staring at each other and you put her hair behind her right ear.

”Can we stay like this forever?” Dany asked.

”You can live here with me and Rhaegal,” You said.

”Y/N, do you want to get married?” Dany said.

You and Dany smile at each other. You gave her a peck on the lips.

”That was yes,” You said.

Dany smiled and kissed you.

[jonsafan-blog]

Dany Knows She’s Being Manipulated

She joked about it to Sansa, but after Jon’s reveal, I think she fears an actual coup against her rule.

Daenerys only arrived in the North to fight Jon’s War and she uses that terminology specifically to outline her intentions to Sansa. Without Jon, the North loses her support.

In that scene, she isn’t just trying to figure out why Sansa doesn’t like her, but to remind her why it ultimately doesn’t matter that Sansa’s doesn’t like her.

It’s actually an interesting gambit because Jon is effectively useless to the Northern lords because of his actions, making Sansa the true political leader. Daenerys isn’t just trying to peck at Sansa’s jealousy, she's trying to secure her hold over the North when it became clear Jon had no true political leadership left.

Daenerys is basically telling Sansa she doesn’t recognize Sansa’s leadership. That’s also why she was sitting between Sansa and Jon at the beginning of the episode because she has to come between Sansa and Jon in order to effectively control the situation. The Sansa regency must end.

She tries to use the idea that Jon is all that is tying her to the battle against the dead, but she realizes by the end of the episode that she has put herself in an awful position:

Daenerys does not have political strength in the North. Although I never believed she was going to execute Jaime, she did want to publically humiliate him and receive acknowledgment of the wrongs against her family and what she suffered as a child in exile. Instead, she was completely denied that.

But it’s the way that she was denied that mattered here.

Jon deferred to Sansa’s judgment and Sansa ultimately tried Jaime in the court of public opinion and deemed Daenerys’s suffering unworthy of consideration. That stings. If GRRM ever finishes writing the books, we will likely see something identical or similar to this and it is going to hurt the readers too because we know that Daenerys truly did suffer as a child.

Even worse is that Daenerys was later reminded she shouldn’t have trusted Cersei.

Now one thing to remember is that Daenerys had every reason to give Cersei the temporary benefit of the doubt. While Jaime is the only living person who is directly tied to her family’s suffering present, Cersei was just an uninvolved girl during the war. Tyrion believed that Cersei would not act against Cersei, and Daenerys chose to believe her hand because Tyrion previously despised Cersei.

But that turned out not to be the case, and every Northerner knew the truth about Cersei even if Tyrion chose to ignore it out of love for family. Sansa even jabbed Daenerys about it.

This means Daenerys feels that not only is she undermined by Northerners, but also by her own court.

And Theon? He publically snubbed Daenerys in favor of Sansa. Daenerys gave his sister a kingdom in Yara’s name, but Theon is willing to die for the Lady of Winterfell and the Starks. Daenerys’s own allies are willing to die for a different ruler.

At this point, Daenerys likely feels like a figurehead and merely a tool for the Northerners and Westeros to survive against the undead.

She really emotes privately a lot this episode. She is in a lot of pain, and Jon does nothing to make her feel better.

Daenerys told Sansa that she only went North because of Jon, but now it’s obvious that wasn’t just rhetoric to keep the North in line, but something she sincerely feels. Daenerys had slowly fallen in love with Jon, and when he encountered trouble north of the wall, she went to save him.

She was devastated when she believed he had died.

But when he returned, Jon realized that Daenerys really did love him and would sacrifice a lot for his cause if he just gave himself to her.

We are meant to also realize as Sansa did that Daenerys is only in Winterfell for Jon. Knowing that, future actions she takes in the Dance of Dragons will make a lot of sense in context. It will also appear justified.

That’s the thing about the Dark Daenerys theory - yes, Daenerys will seem like the Mad Queen from the perspective of Westeros, but she’s not actually insane.

Cersei isn’t insane. What she did makes sense in the past - you don’t really think the Tyrells would have accepted Cersei as dowager queen? They helped orchestrate Renly’s bid for the throne and were doing even before the big bastardry reveal.

She also grew up under the watchful eye of a powerful father who cared a lot about the family’s pride. But Cersei misunderstood that power is power instead of people are power and made all the wrong decisions that ultimately led to her downfall.

Ramsay and Joffrey were insane, but Daenerys and Cersei are not actually insane. They have reasonable motives and were pushed over the edge by circumstances. That doesn’t excuse them, but it does mean they aren’t actually crazy even if they appear that way. Ramsay and Joffrey were too far gone. Daenerys and Cersei are not, but they will ultimately not redeem themselves in the way we would like them to because they will not make important decisions.

We don’t know for certain if Jon loves Daenerys or not, but it is clear that he is using her - much in the same way as he did with Ygritte.

The problem is that Daenerys may no longer believe Jon loves her.

Daenerys suffered by herself this episode and the man she loved did nothing to help console her. In the last episode, Daenerys wanted Jon to keep her warm, but it’s clear Jon isn’t really doing much to make her feel better since he succeeded in getting her North.

This actually suggests he doesn’t love her like he did Ygritte, but that doesn’t mean he finds her unlikable or that he isn’t trying to have a romantic relationship. He’s just bad at it because his motives weren’t a romance so it’s not as natural for him.

Jon made a political match. If Cersei had been able to fight the undead, he would have made a match with her instead.

But the moment Daenerys realizes she has been played by Jon is in the crypts - not before. He tells her that he is the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne.

I don’t think she believes its true. But even if it was, the point is that to Daenerys it appears as if her jab to Sansa is actually reality: Jon tricked her into coming North to fight his war.

Daenerys can’t just pack up and leave.

Jonsa fans often joke that she would do that, but if Daenerys attempted to do that, she would never win the Iron Throne. She also truly likes her friends. As self-interested as Daenerys can be, she still has genuine relationships with other people, such as Jorah, Missandei, and Greyworm.

All of Daenerys’s forces but Yara are in the North and are going to be at the mercy of the Night King. They now must live, fight, and die alongside the Northerners whether they want to or not. It’s too late to leave by this point... even before the horns were blown.

Jon stole her armies for his war, and now with his supposed claims to the Iron Throne, Daenerys doesn’t have him personally either.

Daenerys believes Sansa is jealous about her relationship with Jon. She is physically separating the two of them when she can at the start of the episode. But as it turns out, Jon has a way to not only co-opt her armies but her claim on the Iron Throne.

Think about it: the only reason Jon is mistrusted by the North is that he gave away his crown. Now he has a new crown... Daenerys’s crown. Daenerys doesn’t have the Iron Throne and styles herself Queen. What’s stopping Jon from calling himself King?

Let’s not even get started on the fact she let him ride a dragon - an equal weapon against her.

It doesn’t matter if he’s not actually a Targaryen. She’s likely thinking he can just say he is and take the throne by force and people will accept it... because has everything he needs to do so.

He never abandoned the North. He never abandoned the Starks.

Jon never abandoned the Lady of Winterfell for the Dragon Queen.

Daenerys believes she has been betrayed by Jon. That changes how she is going to act the rest of the season.

[merakiaes]

Where Loyalty Lies - Daenerys Targaryen

Pairing: Daenerys Targaryen x Lannister!reader, Cersei x sister!reader

Requested: Yes and no

Prompts: None

Warnings/notes: Death. This was originally my idea so it’s probably not what you wanted. Dany won’t be one of the major characters I’ll write for and I found it very hard writing for her so it’s not much angst/romance, but I still wanted to bake in the request somehow.

Wordcount: 3851

Description: You’re the sister of Cersei and the ex-lover of Dany, after not agreeing with Dany’s battle strategies, you go back to your sister.

Being a Lannister fighting on a Targaryen’s side had not made your life easy.

You had been with Daenerys from the very beginning, along with Jorah the Andal.

Having been the only one to side with Eddard Stark during your meetings where the suggestion of killing the innocent girl were first brought up, your father and sister started to doubt your loyalty to your family, and sent you overseas in the company of Jorah, on the very mission you had stood against; killing Daenerys Targaryen, to prove your worth.

Jorah and yourself had gotten as close as peas in a pod during your travels to and with the Princess, but as time went on, both of you caught feelings for her.

Daenerys could never bring herself to love Jorah the way he loved her, but she did love you. 

But as you and Daenerys were happily sharing moments of love and affections during your travels to gather the army she would use to take back the Seven Kingdoms, she found out about your and Jorah’s hidden intentions and sent you away.

This caused the wall between Jorah and yourself to come crumbling down, as you once again had to hold each other down to the ground. 

But when Jorah got sick with greyscale, you were forced to split up, leaving you to travel around alone until the right time would come for you to show your face again.

Being one of the more liked Lannisters, you had little birds flying around everywhere, giving you information and secrets about your family back home and Daenerys’s progress.

So it was a given fact that you knew exactly when to return to her services, however, waiting until she had arrived in Westeros to do so.

You knew she would never want to get back together with you after what you had done, but you still hoped.

But said hope went flying right out the window as you returned to her and saw the way she looked at Jon Snow.

It was the same look she had once given you on a daily basis, and it made your heart ache in your chest every time you witnessed them exchange moments of love. 

It pained you greatly, as it did Jorah. But unlike him, you were not very good at hiding your emotions, something Jon soon found out first hand with the way you would glare at him every time he entered the room.

You weren’t usually one to be rude to people you did not know, but with the painfully deep love you still held for your Queen, it was like your mind and body acted on their own. 

As this wasn’t the way you usually acted, it earned you a lot of unwanted attention from the people around you, and also caused many conflicts between you and Dany. 

You had won the Battle of Winterfell, but lost many men and women in the process, one of them being Jorah Mormont.

You had been fighting in the castle at the time, making it outside just in time to see him collapsing to the ground.

You were devastated. Daenerys was too, or so she claimed. This being why you were fuming as she was currently planning on moving on King’s Landing the next day.

You had taken a seat in the corner of the room as the meeting started, out of everyone’s way as you sat back and listened like you always did.

Your Queen had been fighting back and forth with Sansa Stark the whole meeting, but it wasn’t until Dany told you how soon you would be marching to the Capital that you were really starting to listen in to the words they were exchanging. 

The fact that she wanted to move in on Cersei this soon after the battle against the Dead was insane. Everyone could see how it would end, except for her

“(Y/N).” Missandei suddenly called to you, having grown tired of the She Wolf always talking down on her queen, causing you to look up. “You are our Queen’s most trusted adviser. What do you think?”

You sat up straighter, looking between them as they did you, awaiting your response.

You glanced around, debating whether or not you should speak your thoughts. 

Missandei was smiling at you, sure in her mind that you would side with your Queen, all while Sansa was glaring at you because of the same reason.

“I agree with Sansa.” You spoke finally, having made your decision, shocking everyone in the room. “Moving in on King’s Landing while our men are hurt and the dragons are tired is a sloppy move, and will most likely backfire now that Cersei has the support of the Iron Fleet and the Golden Company.”

Something flickered behind Daenerys’ eyes, her face turning cold. 

”I trust your judgement more than I do anyone else.” She told you. “But after everything you have done, I don’t need your judgement.”

“Everything I have done?” You asked her, slowly starting to stand up. “Jorah is dead. He loved you more than anyone, maybe even more than me. He got greyscale because of you, because you couldn’t open your eyes and see that his love for you weighted more than the mission he was sent on and give him a minute to explain. He got his skin peeled from his body, all so that he could return to you. He stopped you from being beaten, raped, killed, more times than you will ever know. He died for you. One of your dragons are dead, all because you were so dead-set on getting Jon Snow to bend the knee, making him go beyond the Wall for evidence when he wouldn’t. And you still don’t understand the importance of patience.”

You saw her face fall briefly at the thought of Viserion and Jorah, before it turned hard again.

She turned to look at the others. “I wish to have a moment alone with my trusted adviser.”

The people in the room all bowed their heads in respect before shuffling out of the room, leaving only you and Dany.

She was quiet for a while, before looking to you. “I should’ve known better than to trust a Lannister. At the end of the day you are still Cersei’s sister, or is it perhaps the jealousy? That I’m no longer with you?”

“This has nothing to do with my personal emotions. I hate to be the bearer of bad realities but sending your army into another war when they are still wounded is insanity. Don’t even try to shut me out of this. I’ve been here since day one. I’m more a part of this than any of the others are.” You motioned with your hand to the door where the others had gone out only seconds before.  

”Do you think this is easy?” She asked you, lip curled up in anger. “Do you think this has been easy for me? I’ve lost everything. Everyone.”

”No, I’m not saying your life has been easy. But I do think you’re not trying hard enough.” You confessed. “And how can you stand there saying you’ve lost everyone? I’m here, aren’t I? Am I suddenly not important now that you’ve go Jon?”

Daenerys was quiet for a moment, eyes staring into yours in a staring match neither of you seemed to be willing to lose.

She was finally the one who broke it, turning to look out the window. “You’re going against me. I trusted you.” She spoke after a minute of silence.

Your heart sank in your chest, not understanding why she wouldn’t just listen.

“Then keep trusting me.” You told her, taking a few steps closer to her and putting your hand on her shoulder.

“Look at how the northerners look at you. How do you think the people of the Capital will look at you after everything Cersei’s been feeding them? You will never be the Queen you aspire to be if you don’t have the people on your side. You need to not act on their lack of trust and care for you. What you need to do is to keep doing what you did best before everything started being about power. Rule in the best interest of your people. Not the throne, not the crown, not defeating Cersei. The people. If you do that you show them you are here for them, not just to use them as pawns in the great game, and then, they’ll trust you, which gives you the greatest power of them all. You’re not your father, but that is what they fear, because you haven’t given them a reason not to. Show them you’re more than the Mad King’s daughter, show them you’re Daenerys Targaryen, Queen of the people.”

She moved around the table as you spoke, staring with an uninterested look at the pawns on the table in front of her, but with the way she was leaning her head slightly in your direction, you knew she was listening.

“Every ruler who has disliked getting their authority questioned is dead now, no matter how great and loved they were at the beginning. Marching on King’s Landing with half your army gone, the rest hurt and tired, and your dragons exhausted, you might as well hand my sister your head on a silver platter. You know just as well as me that it won’t work. If you march on Cersei now, there’ll be nothing left for you to rule.”

“Maybe that’s what you want.” She looked up at you accusingly. “I know you’re still in love with me. Everyone knows.”

You frowned. “I don’t deny my feelings for you.” You agreed. “But this goes beyond feelings. Self-control is strength. Calmness is mastery. Both are virtues you used to have, but don’t anymore. And it worries me. You don’t seem to be fighting for the people like you used to do, anymore.”

“Do you miss them?” She asked, staring at you, completely ignoring the words you had just spoken to her.

You frowned, not understanding what she was getting at.

“Your family. Do you miss them?” She asked again, making it clearer.

”They hurt me, used me as a pawn in their game.” You answered calmly, eyes flickering with sadness for a moment.

”But do you miss them?” She asked once again.

You looked into her eyes as you thought about your sister, brothers, niece, nephews and father. ”Everyday. Just like you do your brother despite his actions.”

She slowly came to stand before you, hand moving to touch a strand of your hair before letting it fall back onto your shoulder.

Looking up at you, she glared. “As long as you feel love for Cersei, you are the enemy. I don’t want to have to kill you. I trust you can show yourself out.”

Your heart broke at her words, realizing she was truly lost. This was not the woman you had fallen in love with. This was an exact replica of your sister. 

Your face hardened as you backed away from her. “I do deeply hope you realize you’re acting just like her, before it’s too late.” You paused as you reached the door, turning around to give her one last look. ”Qui totum vult totum perdit. He who want everything loses everything.”

And with that, you walked outside, wasting no time in gathering your things on a horse and riding off, heading for the Capital.

If Daenerys wasn’t going to listen to your advice, you would have to eliminate the threat from the inside, from within its very walls, to prevent King’s Landing being burnt down to the ground.

Tyrion and Varys looked after you as you rode through the gates, hands clasped in front of them. 

“She’s right, you know.” Varys told Tyrion, the two of them having heard each and every word of your conversation.

Tyrion nodded. “I know. Hopefully she’ll be able to talk some sense into our sister.” He sighed, as you disappeared from sight.

The travel to King’s Landing didn’t take as long as it would if you had traveled with company, you reaching the city in only a week.

It hadn’t been hard for the goldcloaks to recognize you, wasting no time in getting you off your horse, taking you into arrest and bring you to your sister.

Not without struggle from your side, of course, you having managed to snatch a crossbow and shoot two arrows into a man’s foot, earning yourself three in your own.

“You’re alive.” Cersei had spoken when you had been pushed onto your knees in front of her by the man you had shot, who you had now learned to be Euron Greyjoy.

You only snorted in return. “Don’t sound so disappointed. I might think you don’t like me.“

“You betrayed me.” She stated. “Betrayed our family. I should have you killed right here and now.”

“Yes.” You drawled, going to glance at Euron who had his sword pointed at you. “This one has kept pointing that sword at me and blabbering about how much you’ve been waiting to kill me, but I’m still alive so I’m beginning to doubt your commitment.”

She didn’t say anything, so you continued, taking in the hateful look on her face. ”Go on then. Do it. Hit me, stab me, break my neck. I know you want to. I can see it in your eyes.”  

Cersei looked at you for a long moment, before finally standing up and descending the stairs to reach you. “What are you doing here?”

“I should’ve listened to you from the start.” You wasted no time in answering, a glare coming to rest at your face as the lie slipped through your lips. “Daenerys Targaryen is just a child, she is beyond salvation. And I’m not sitting by when she kills the only family I have left.”

“Is that so…” Cersei drawled as she inspected you, looking for any sign that you were lying, and for a moment you feared that she might call your bluff. 

But luckily, she found none.

“I want to fight on your side. If you’ll have me.” You said, causing Euron to scoff.  

“Please tell me you’re not believing her?” He stepped forward then, waving his sword about.

Cersei turned to him. “She’s harmless.” She told her lover, who gave her a glare in return.

“She shot me, twice!” He exclaimed, lifting his wrapped foot for extra effect.

“And you shot me thrice. An honest mistake.” You responded, smirking at him all while he narrowed his eyes at you.

“You should’ve known better than to arrest my sister.” Cersei simply spoke, motioning for the guards to untie you, much to Euron’s dismay.

“Finally.” You muttered under your breath as you rubbed your wrists, pushing yourself off the floor.

“Give her a crossbow.” Cersei told one of the guards as she went back to sit on the throne. “You’re on guard duty of the people. If they get aggressive, shoot them.”

You raised an eyebrow at this, accepting the crossbow as it was handed to you. “Shoot them?”

“Politely.” She gave you a forced smile as she sat down.

You chuckled, inspecting the piece of weaponry. It had been a long time since you had gotten to hold such an expensive weapon. “I can shoot politely.”

And with that, you went off to bid to her commands. You guarded the city for the rest of the evening until you got to go to your old chambers, luckily not having had to shoot anyone. 

Not that you would have if they’d gone aggressive, either way.

A few days passed, and eventually you got word that Dany was coming South, leaving you to gather the people in the Red Keep while Euron prepared the boats.

You had thought Dany would be smart enough to spot them behind the cliff, but you had been wrong, as Rhaegal had been shot down along with their ships, forcing them to the shores.

Cersei had called you to the Throne Room, and as you arrived, the first thing you laid eyes on was Missandei of Naath in chains, causing you to look at your sister.

You had to harden your face quickly so that Cersei wouldn’t spot the obvious panic that had made its way onto your face at the sight of your friend. 

“What’s this?” You asked her as you walked into the room, Missandei looking up at the sound of your voice.

“A friend of yours, judging by the look on your face.” Your sister smirked back as she drank from her cup of wine, Euron standing at her side. “I thought I’d let you have the pleasure of showing her to her… room.”

She smirked at you, knowing exactly how much this was bothering you. 

You glared at her, but nonetheless went to take the girl from the guards, causing Cersei’s smirk to grow as she looked at you.

Everything suddenly got a lot harder. The plan you had had in mind when coming here was suddenly long forgotten as your brain went to work on a way to save Missandei from what was sure to come.

“Come on.” You ordered as you pulled Missandei forward roughly, wasting no time in going for the exit.

“Oh, (Y/N).” Cersei called out from behind you then, causing you to stop in your tracks. You looked at her as she continued. “If you even think of betraying me, I have more than a few ways in mind to kill you.”

You looked at her, but didn’t answer, only turning to resume your walk.

“Why are you doing this?” Missandei asked you once you were out of hearing range of the guards and your sister, looking at you with a glare as you pulled her along down the stairs.

You couldn’t find it in you to answer as you noticed the betrayal glistening her eyes wet with tears. 

But your silence only caused her look to harden. “Our Queen has never done anything but protect you. She loved you.”

Your heart skipped a beat, the fact that you had to treat your friend like this making you feel nauseous.

Taking a breath, you turned to look at her with the evilest look you could muster. “Did she?” You asked, challenging her. “Daenerys is doing the exact same thing she has been fighting against for years, this makes her and Cersei the same. Who do you think I chose, then? The person who replaced me, or my own sister?”

Missandei kept quiet after that, not daring to speak another word to you as her trust for you flew out the window, the new-found hate only growing when you left her in a cell at the bottom of the Keep.

The next day you came back with food and water, but she refused to eat. Not that it surprised you.

You had had tried your best to get her to eat while keeping up your act as the guards had been watching, but when not succeeding you had just proceeded to take her to the wall of the city, where you would be meeting with Daenerys to discuss the terms of surrender, leaving you where you were now.

“I must say I’m quite surprised you returned to Cersei’s side after all this time.” Qyburn told you as you walked through the gates to meet Tyrion in the middle, Cersei having sent you with him for protection if it should be needed. "I usually see things coming, but this I did not.”

You glanced at him. Thank the Gods for the famous Lannister pokerface.

Daenerys and Tyrion widened their eyes when they laid their eyes on you in the doorway, watching as you walked side by side with Qyburn, body clad in the red and gold armor of your house.

They couldn’t believe you had switched sides so easily, just like that. It couldn’t be the whole truth. Of course it wasn’t.

“Family will always come first.” You answered finally right before you reached Tyrion, him sparing you a worried and sad glance before he started talking to Qyburn.

Turning around to return to your sister’s side like planned, you gave Daenerys a nod that only she could see, watching her face turn from betrayal into one of confusion.

You reached your sister’s side in no time, standing beside Missandei.

As Tyrion came forward to talk to Cersei, you saw her hard front falter briefly, and for just a second you hoped that maybe she would surrender so that you wouldn’t have to do what you had planned.

But as she came to stand beside Missandei, your hope was once again crushed. “If you have any last words, now would be the time.” She told her slowly before going back to her spot.

Everything went in slowmotion from then on. Dany, Tyrion, Greyworm watched from the ground as the Mountain started drawing his sword, Missandei’s lip trembling in fear at the sound of the metal being pulled from its sheath.

You came to stand behind her then, Cersei looking away as she just figured you would be saying goodbye.

But as you leaned in to Missandei’s ear, you whispered out quietly. “I’m going to push you now.”

Missandei was confused, but gave you a barely visible nod nonetheless, and that’s when everything went back to normal speed.

You drew your knife, throwing it at Euron’s foot as he moved to go after you, before unsheathing your sword and holding it against your sister’s throat, everyone stopping in their tracks.

“I should’ve known.” Cersei looked at you, seething. ”Are you going to kill me?”

You breathed heavily as you glared at her, blade pressed against her throat. “No.” You shook your head. “Daenerys is going to do that herself. You ruined her. You ruined everything she loved, and now you’ll watch as she sets your world on fire.”

You turned to look at Dany from your spot, giving her one last look of love before turning to Missandei.

You shared a look with her, giving her a nod, just as Cersei nodded to Gregor to proceed.

And with that, you whipped around quickly as he successfully drew his sword, shouting Tyrion’s name to get his attention and wasting no time in pushing Missandei from the wall right as Gregor swung the sword at her head, knowing the fall would hurt them both but not kill them.

You turned around right before the sword came down, managing to throw yourself from the wall just in time for the sword not to behead you, however still slitting your throat.

As everything had moved so fast, Cersei hadn’t reacted until then, yelling out a loud “No!” at the sight of her sister’s skin being pierced by the tip of the sword, together with Tyrion and Daenerys from the ground.

Your eyes locked on a faraway vision as you fell, and just like that, you were gone, leaving your words running through Daenerys’s head.

You’re not your father. 

Tagged: Not even gonna tag anyone in this because I don’t know what the hell this is, I was literally high on my pain meds when I wrote this and now I don’t remember a word of it.

(IF I’VE FORGOTTEN TO TAG YOU  IN ANY OF MY POSTS OR IF YOU’RE NEW AND WANT TO BE TAGGED, SEND ME A DM. IT’S HARD FOR BE TO KEEP TRACK OF THE ONES WHO COMMENT ON MY POSTS THAT THEY WANT TO BE TAGGED. MY BRAIN IS A MESS)

[rainhalydia]

I wasn't in fandom at the time, so I'm curious about how you felt, as a Throbb shipper, about GRRM confirming Robb didn't love Theon as much as he loved Jon? And how did Throbb shippers in general feel about it?

Well, I can’t say how Throbb shippers in general felt. Not that happy, I’d guess? I can tell how I felt and still feel about it, though I didn’t see that interview until long after the fact so I didn’t catch any drama anyway. To sum it up: I don’t care.

A much longer, rambling word-vomit under the cut:

I think I summed up my feelings very exactly, but I kept thinking a lot about this ask and having lots of opinions, so here we go. I’ll preface this long-ass rant by saying I have no professional training in literary analysis. I just read a lot, overthink everything and had two classes in college about literature.

First of all, this tendency to give great weight - i.e., to care at all - about what writers have to say about their own work is completely foreign to me. I mean it literally - the main framework of literary analysis I’ve encountered throughtout my education was basically centered around the text, and I very much adopt it without even giving it conscious thought. I don’t seek out interviews, addendums, essays, anything at all. Sometimes I read it if they fall on my lap. Such was the case with this interview.

It’s not that writers don’t have things to say, or that those things are not interesting or valuable or sometimes shed a new light on their work. It’s that at the end of the day they’re not important! Only canon is canon. I don’t mean to sound snob or pedantic, like the books are law or something. And any canon has a number of valid interpretations (within limits), they’re not absolute, they allow some wiggle room. But any text needs by definition to stand on its own without writers poking their heads inside the room to say how we should interpret it. If we need imput from the writers to do it, then the text is already bad, it failed, sorry. Interpretation is the reader’s job. In fact, it’s the reader’s prerrogative.

Much of this hipe around authors, I believe, has to do with the rise of social media and how close to the public writers suddenly were. And I feel that applies especially for authors like Martin, who are very talented and have created a very rich world that has become really popular. And ASOIAF is still ongoing. It’s natural that everyone wants to pick at his brain and know where the story is going!

And here I make my second very unpopular point: authors are not specialists in their own work.

He knows more than anyone about it, certainly, and currently Martin is probably the only person who knows how things will end (though we have plenty of bare bones the show left), but he is, as he has admited himself, a gardener. The story was bound to get away from him, given his own writting style. The group of people who will be specialists on his work don’t include him, and they don’t even exist yet. They will only emerge when he’s stopped writing (so probably after his death) and his work has ended (if it was finished or not). Then people can read every single thing he has ever written, which is much more than ASOIAF, and analyse it to death, pick it apart from every single angle, the ones Martin intended to be there and the ones he didn’t.

Again, I don’t mean to come across as snobbish and say Martin does not know his own work, characters, creation, etc. He does! But no writer can leave all their biases behind when they start writing, so these books are not neutral to begin with. Add to it the lots and lots of variables readers will bring when they interpret the text, and any book is always going to be more than the author intends by default.

If my argument seems absurd, let me point out that it has already happened to a certain degree: my own interpretation from reading ASOIAF is that it is full of anti-war, anti-violence messages, and yet from it has sprung an adaptation that, in my own interpretation, glorifies war and violence to a ridiculous degree. I’m not alone in these opinions, btw. They’re pretty common in fandom spaces, so I’m sure I didn’t pull them out of thin air. We can argue until we’re blue in the face that the Ds can’t read anything for shit, they certainly don’t do themselves any favors, but you know, they interpreted the books well enough to correctly guess who was Jon’s mother and get permission to adapt it in the first place. I’ve since seen people (I’m not naming names, anyone still reading will just have to take my word for it, but I swear they do exist) defend that the show is a faithful adaptation of the books and that the glorification of war was there too, and others say that the show didn’t actually glorify war, it had an anti-war message! Who is wrong? Well, I don’t know. As I said, the GRRM’s specialists are yet to come, and I’m certainly not one of them. What I believe, however, is that all of us brought our own biases to the same text, interpreted it according to them, and came to different, often conflicting conclusions.

See also what GRRM said about the partnership between Jaehaerys and Alysanne and what most people made of their relationship from Fire and Blood. See the sept sex/rape scene controversy. See the Dany/Drogo controversy.

Do you get why I put little weight in Martin’s interviews to form my opinion? So given that and my own background, I’ll chose my own interpretation of the text rather than Martin’s apocrypha.

What does the book canon, and the book canon alone, say about Robb’s feelings for Theon? Well, unless new material is released, we’ll just never know for sure, because Robb isn’t a pov character. We do have Theon’s side of things - he has a certain affection for Robb, he’s more of a brother than his own brothers, he wishes he had died with him or at least that he had been there at the moment of Robb’s death, depending on how sincere he feels like being. We also know a little bit of what other characters thought of their relationship. Bran says Robb admired Theon and enjoyed his company, and it’s implied that he finds this baffling. He’s also jealous that Robb spends more time with Theon and other adults doing adult things than with his brothers. And though I’ve talked at lenght about interpretation and wiggle room to understand things, it’s also pretty evident that Robb is down to hear Theon talk about his sexual conquests in some detail as long as his brothers aren’t around.

Of course, Bran is a child and much as he loves Robb, their time together is cut short and Robb is not his main concern anyway. We get most material about Robb and Theon’s relationship from Cat’s pov. There’s a lot we can analyse and Damien had already done a great not-meta about it, but sadly he’s since deleted, thank you to the demons who got on his case, but for me the most damning piece of evidence that Robb feels very strongly for Theon is this:

“Robb will avenge his brothers. Ice can kill as dead as fire. Ice was Ned’s greatsword. Valyrian steel, marked with the ripples of a thousand foldings, so sharp I feared to touch it. Robb’s blade is dull as a cudgel compared to Ice. It will not be easy for him to get Theon’s head off, I fear. The Starks do not use headsmen. Ned always said that the man who passes the sentence should swing the blade, though he never took any joy in the duty.”

So to unpack what is going on: nearly drowing in grief, Cat rambles to Brienne about lots of things, including Theon’s impending death sentence. By Northern dumb tradition, Robb must be the one to behead Theon, his former best friend turned enemy, turned betrayer, turned brother-killer. And she says that it won’t be easy for him to do it.

Now, it can be argued that this is partly because of the sword. They’ve lost their sharp valyrian steel and Robb uses an inferior blade, not as sharp. I reject this interpretation as the only explanation (and here comes my own biases) because she mentions the headsman right after. A headsman might be more experienced, but it’s not like he’d have valyrian steel to do it either. Rather, I think she’s talking about how being able to pass Theon off to be killed by a headsman would be easier on Robb psychologically, but it’s not really an option, so Robb will have to suffer.

At this point, to Robb’s knowledge, Theon has: 1) betrayed his trust and used the ruse of negociations with Balon to escape; 2) attacked the northern shore and enslaved his people; 3) attacked and took control of his home; 4) made his brothers hostages; 5) killed his brothers; 6) denied his brothers the right to be buried in a decent way; and finally, 7) burned their bodies and exposed them for all of the North to see.

And after all this, having to be the one to kill Theon will make him suffer.

We know one of the moments Robb gets the angriest in the books is when Bran is threatened by the wildlings. He is the acting Lord and keeping his little brothers safe is his responsability. He nearly bites Theon’s head off when Theon saves Bran in a risky way and we know that was uncharacteristic because Theon is still sulking about that a whole year later. So his siblings are dear to him, but even after Theon does everything from steps 1 to 4, he’s still sure they’re not in danger and that Theon won’t do anything to them. That’s how much he trusts Theon. It takes literal murder to make him change his mind.

But then he does change his mind. He believes Theon did those awful, awful things to his brothers. After that knowledge has had time to settle in, after he believes the worst of Theon, he has this amazing convo with Cat that I’ll quote whole because it’s amazing:

“Enough.” For just an instant Robb sounded more like Brandon than his father. “No man calls my lady of Winterfell a traitor in my hearing, Lord Rickard.” When he turned to Catelyn, his voice softened. “If I could wish the Kingslayer back in chains I would. You freed him without my knowledge or consent … but what you did, I know you did for love. For Arya and Sansa, and out of grief for Bran and Rickon. Love’s not always wise, I’ve learned. It can lead us to great folly, but we follow our hearts … wherever they take us. Don’t we, Mother?”

Is that what I did? “If my heart led me into folly, I would gladly make whatever amends I can to Lord Karstark and yourself.”

Lord Rickard’s face was implacable. “Will your amends warm Torrhen and Eddard in the cold graves where the Kingslayer laid them?” He shouldered between the Greatjon and Maege Mormont and left the hall.

Robb made no move to detain him. “Forgive him, Mother.”

“If you will forgive me.”

“I have. I know what it is to love so greatly you can think of nothing else.”

Catelyn bowed her head. “Thank you.” I have not lost this child, at least.

So we know that what is going on here is that Robb is buttering Cat up before breaking the news of his marriage to Jeyne to her. One of the possible interpretations supported by the text is that Jeyne is in love with Robb and Robb is not in love with her. It’s a common reading that he married her out of honor and to avoid a possible Jon Snow situation. During their marriage, he seems to grow fond of her - Cat notices he likes her company better, and her brother’s, and that he laughs when he is with the Westerlings - but he also keeps some distance. She’s afraid of Grey Wind, which pretty much means being afraid of a part of him. In turn, he’s attentive, courteous, and a bit touched and annoyed at her public displays of affection.

Then there is this gem:

“His heir failed him.” Robb ran a hand over the rough weathered stone. “I had hoped to leave Jeyne with child … we tried often enough, but I’m not certain…”

And this is more Damien’s not-meta than my own, but once you see it, you can’t ever unsee it. Compare the bolded parts in that quote in the first Cat-Robb convo to the part bolded in the second one, put them side to side and tell me you can’t see the difference. In the first one, Robb basically spells it out that he’s made a mistake out of love, that love turned him into a fool, but it was stronger than him. At that point of the narrative, Robb’s biggest mistake (and notably it was HIS mistale, it was not a case of the narrative screwing him over) was to free Theon. A mistake that caused him to lose his brothers, castle and a significant chunk of political standing. The consequences of marrying Jeyne, which is pretty much only to lose the Freys, don’t even compare - especially because the Stark faction believes they can win their support back.

And this love that made him act like a fool is further described in the second bolded part of that quote. He loved so greatly that he could think of nothing else. That is some passion there, folks. Even considering that he’s trying to get Cat on his side, it strikes me as so sincere and heartfelt. And again, maybe it’s my own biases showing, but that sounds like an all-consuming love, the kind of love that doesn’t go away easily. I don’t see that same depth of emotion on the second bolded quote… they tried often enough. Does it add up with the first part? I don’t think so.

My conclusion, and forgive me if the shipper gogles come in, is that the love that hurt him, that consumed him, is the love he had for Theon. Not for his wife. But it was in the past, one might say. His marriage was just beginning, he and Jeyne grow closer, etc. I’ll quote two more bits:

“I cannot speak to that. There is much confusion in any war. Many false reports. All I can tell you is that my nephews claim it was this bastard son of Bolton’s who saved the women of Winterfell, and the little ones. They are safe at the Dreadfort now, all those who remain.”

“Theon,” Robb said suddenly. “What happened to Theon Greyjoy? Was he slain?”

Here we are nearing the Red Wedding. Some Freys come to pretend to make peace and pressure for a wedding to Edmure and they bring news of the battle of Winterfell. Professional writers don’t often abuse the “suddenly” like us poor fic writers, so when he says it was sudden, i believe it was sudden. I believe it came out of nowhere, in fact, and that Robb was the only one in that room considering Theon’s fate.

Roose Bolton removed a ragged strip of leather from the pouch at his belt. “My son sent this with his letter.”

Ser Wendel turned his fat face away. Robin Flint and Smalljon Umber exchanged a look, and the Greatjon snorted like a bull. “Is that … skin?” said Robb.

“The skin from the little finger of Theon Greyjoy’s left hand. My son is cruel, I confess it. And yet … what is a little skin, against the lives of two young princes? You were their mother, my lady. May I offer you this … small token of revenge?“ 

Part of Catelyn wanted to clutch the grisly trophy to her heart, but she made herself resist. “Put it away. Please.”

“Flaying Theon will not bring my brothers back,” Robb said. “I want his head, not his skin.”

Aside from Catelyn, who is torn, and maybe the Greatjon (I don’t know what snorting like a bull is supposed to convey), no one in that room approves of torturing Theon, they’re all rightly creeped out. But no one would blink an eye if Robb had ordered Theon flayed alive. Instead, he commands the torture to stop. Of course it’s the only decent thing to do, but let’s all appreciate how the character who is always arguing for peace, end of conflict and letting things go for the sake of the living and what can still be saved instead of more violence, is tempted by it. Robb is the only one who shares the full extent of Cat’s grief here, but he’s also the only one to try and stop the senseless punishment.

I joke all the time about how Throbb is canon, and it’s mostly jokes. They are not canon in the sense that Cat and Ned are canon, and I don’t think we’ll have any more facts added to their story together, there probably won’t be any flashbacks that hint at a romantic relationship between them. But looking at the text alone, what we have of it as of now, it’s possible to support a canonical reading for this ship. This interpretation is there in the text if you want to see it. In fact, some things make more sense if Robb was in love with Theon.

And you know, having a ship be supported by canon is not actually a condition that needs to be met to ship anything. It’s just something I particularly need to get into it. But even if you read Theon and Robb as just friends, it’s a reach to say that Robb didn’t love Theon.

Of course, we have Robb demonstrating affection towards Jon in the books too. He is Robb’s chosen heir, to Cat’s despair. Despite all the negative propaganda bastards get and the fact that the mother he so respected and loved disliked and distrusted Jon, Robb considers him a full brother, to compare to Sansa’s constant “half-brother” from the beginning of her journey. They’re seen having a good time together (they have a horse race in their very first appearance in the books, and Mance recalls them getting into trouble together as children), so they enjoy each other’s company.

Yet there’s also an undercurrent of sibling rivalry between them, seen from Jon’s pov. We have this bit with Benjen:

Benjen gave Jon a careful, measuring look. “You don’t miss much, do you, Jon? We could use a man like you on the Wall.”

Jon swelled with pride. “Robb is a stronger lance than I am, but I’m the better sword, and Hullen says I sit a horse as well as anyone in the castle.”

This is hilarious to me. My uncle paid me a compliment for being perceptive, a skill not at all related to martial skills! Time to compare my martial skills to my brother’s, even though we’re both 14 and there’s lots of more tried warriors in the world and we haven’t even had our last growh spurt! This is sure to impress a seasoned ranger!

Of course we know Jon’s rivalry towards Robb comes from his bastard status, but it’s interesting to me that it’s something that centers around Robb alone; he doesn’t compare himself to Bran or Rickon as far as I remember. That can be explained by their very similar ages and growing up together, I think. Jon has the advantage of being older than his other true born brothers.

Jon also says this:

Bastard children were born from lust and lies, men said; their nature was wanton and treacherous. Once Jon had meant to prove them wrong, to show his lord father that he could be as good and true a son as Robb. I made a botch of that. Robb had become a hero king; if Jon was remembered at all, it would be as a turncloak, an oathbreaker, and a murderer. He was glad that Lord Eddard was not alive to see his shame.

To Jon - and to the other Stark children - Robb is often the model to be emmulated. I won’t dig up all the times they hold him up as the ideal of bravery. Jon’s feelings are not unique in this sense, though they are when it comes to the rivalry. They all admire Robb. From Robb’s side, I don’t remember hints of him admiring Jon or any of his siblings. He certainly loves them, likes them, and enjoys spending time with Jon at the very least.

But Theon is the one Robb admires in text. Bran says it, and Theon too:

“There is nothing small about the letter I bear,” Theon said, “and the offer he makes is one I suggested to him.”

“This wolf king heeds your counsel, does he?” The notion seemed to amuse Lord Balon.

“He heeds me, yes. I’ve hunted with him, trained with him, shared meat and mead with him, warred at his side. I have earned his trust. He looks on me as an older brother, he—”

Readers often dismiss this as Theon’s garden variety empty bragging. To be fair, Theon very much distorts reality in his head to fit his own idea of how things should be, but this is one of the few times when he’s not doing that. He’s genuinely proud that Robb thinks so well of him. And since he’s so sensitive about what people think of him and people not giving him the credit he thinks he deserves, I’m ready to believe his account of facts this one time.

What I get from canon, regarding who Robb loves the most out of Jon and Theon, is that he loves them differently. He might even love Jon more by ASOS; it’s a wonder that we have hints that he still cares about Theon at all by the end, after the murders of who we know are the miller boys, but who Robb thinks are Bran and Rickon.

He had different relationships with them. Even if you reject the reading of Throbb as romantic, friends and siblings are not interchangable, even if you’re out there calling close friends brothers or if your brother is your best friend. It’s different sorts of affection. At the beginning of the series, Robb and Theon seemed closer to me than Robb and Jon - let’s not forget that Jon’s favorite is Arya, and the biggest family drama at that time has to do with Jon and Cat. They grow even closer as they go to war together, and then they’re pushed apart by circumstances and by Theon’s actions.

But okay, this is not long enough yet, so let’s say that this is an invalid framework of analysis and Martin’s word of god has as much weight as canon, and that in fact, we’re 100% certain that Robb loved Jon more than Theon.

Why does it even need to be a competition? No one holds it against Ygritte that Jon loves Arya more. Asha has a steady boyfriend that she’d gladly marry, and still she takes risk after risk for Theon. Ned was probably the greatest love of Cat’s life, but her interactions with her brother and uncle are still emotional and moving in great part because of the depth of her love for them.

Robb loving Jon more doesn’t take anything away from Theon. He doesn’t love Theon less because he loves Jon more, love is not a finite resource. And Robb loved Theon plenty, be it in a familial, friends or romantic way. If it diminished, that was a result of Theon’s choices alone.

[jackoshadows]

I would like to address some posts I saw that talk about misogynistic double standards when it comes to Jon and Sansa regarding bullying - that Sansa gets criticized and taken to task for bullying Arya but Jon gets a pass for bullying fellow recruits at the Night’s Watch.

First of all, who is giving Jon a pass for bullying Grenn and the others? Are there like 5 page essays out there writing about POV traps and how Grenn was unfairly jealous of Jon and hence deserving of being bullied, how it’s just new recruits being new recruits and Jon did nothing wrong etc.?

Jon’s my favorite character, and I will outright state it - Jon bullied the other recruits at the NW because he was a privileged brat. He was wrong to do it. The text pretty much calls him a bully and unlike some stans, no one is twisting those words to argue otherwise.

And I have never seen anyone defend Jon’s actions there. In fact I have seen these same Sansa stans use Jon’s actions at the Wall to justify Catelyn’s emotional abuse of a child. That even though Jon is a bastard, he was better off than other NW recruits and hence should shut up and stop whining about Catelyn. That his treatment by Catelyn was okay because he had it better than most others in Westeros.

Jon’s actions at the wall are just not mentioned often because it’s accepted that he did wrong. The reason why Sansa’s bullying is often brought up is because Sansa stans write essays about how Sansa never bullied or mocked Arya, how it was just sibling being siblings, how it was because Arya was jealous and hated Sansa, how Arya’s wrong and biased POV is meant to trick readers into hating Sansa when Sansa never actually did anything wrong etc. So it’s book readers responding to this whitewashing of Sansa - because one can read the very real effects this bullying had on Arya’s self esteem and self worth.

In fact the only time Jon’s actions are brought up are when Sansa stans bring it up as whataboutism, to point fingers and accuse others of misogyny - even though no one is actually defending Jon Snow.

And you know what? Yeah, Jon was a bully. But he acknowledges that he did wrong, learned and grew from his mistakes. And I love that about Jon.

“No. They hate you because you act like you’re better than they are. They look at you and see a castle-bred bastard who thinks he’s a lordling.” The armorer leaned close. “You’re no lordling. Remember that. You’re a Snow, not a Stark. You’re a bastard and a bully.”

Donal Noye leaned forward, into Jon’s face. “Now think on this, boy. None of these others have ever had a master-at-arms until Ser Alliser. Their fathers were farmers and wagonmen and poachers, smiths and miners and oars on a trading galley. What they know of fighting they learned between decks, in the alleys of Oldtown and Lannisport, in wayside brothels and taverns on the kingsroad. They may have clacked a few sticks together before they came here, but I promise you, not one in twenty was ever rich enough to own a real sword.” His look was grim. “So how do you like the taste of your victories now, Lord Snow?”

“Don’t call me that!” Jon said sharply, but the force had gone out of his anger. Suddenly he felt ashamed and guilty. “I never... I didn’t think...” - Jon, AGoT

Jon noticed Grenn a few feet away. A thick woolen bandage was wrapped around one hand. He looked anxious and uncomfortable, not menacing at al . Jon went to him. Grenn edged backward and put up his hands. “Stay away from me now, you bastard.” Jon smiled at him. “I’m sorry about your wrist. Robb used the same move on me once, only with a wooden blade. It hurt like seven hells, but yours must be worse. Look, if you want, I can show you how to defend that.” - Jon, AGoT

Dareon gave him a look. “The stewards are fine for the likes of you and me, Sam, but not for Lord Snow.”

I never asked for this,” he said stubbornly.

“None of us are here for asking,” Sam reminded him.

And suddenly Jon Snow was ashamed.

Craven or not, Samwell Tarly had found the courage to accept his fate like a man. On the Wall, a man gets only what he earns, Benjen Stark had said the last night Jon had seen him alive. You’re no ranger, Jon, only a green boy with the smell of summer still on you. He’d heard it said that bastards grow up faster than other children; on the Wall, you grew up or you died. Jon let out a deep sigh. “You have the right of it. I was acting the boy... - Jon, AGoT

Jon Snow being hurt by words calling his mother a whore and later making Satin Flowers,a  prostitute, his steward despite opposition.

“Words won’t make your mother a whore. She was what she was, and nothing Toad says can change that. You know, we have men on the Wall whose mothers were whores.” Not my mother, Jon thought stubbornly. He knew nothing of his mother; Eddard Stark would not talk of her. Yet he dreamed of her at times, so often that he could almost see her face. In his dreams, she was beautiful, and highborn, and her eyes were kind. - Jon, AGoT

Jon is constantly getting his worldviews and his privilege challenged at the wall. He is confronted by some ugly truths about himself and he then takes that advice and changes for the better. It’s the same when he goes among the Wildlings and recognizes that they too are human beings deserving of being on the other side of the wall. We get this gem from him:

“We look up at the same stars and see such different things.”- Jon, ASoS

That’s the difference between how Jon and Sansa are treated in book one. When Jon acts bratty and selfish, other characters call him out on his actions, he acknowledges this, apologizes and makes up for it.

With Sansa, on the other hand, we don’t really see anyone taking her to task over her behavior. Quite the opposite. Catelyn and the Septa only encourage it. Ned ‘both sides’ the issue, often talking to Arya about how she should get along with Sansa and behave like sisters. We never see him giving those same talks to Sansa.

Which is weird because most parents would talk to their elder kids to bring about peace in sibling disputes. But in this case, Ned keeps reasoning with his younger daughter instead of his elder one. Probably because everyone thinks that Sansa is the good girl and Arya is the problematic, unruly one.

And because she is never reprimanded over her behavior, Sansa continues to be a spoiled and selfish brat right till Ned is executed at the end of the first book.

Sansa does become more empathetic in the later books after she becomes sadistic Joffrey’s political prisoner and she tries to help where she can. But while GRRM said this about her:

Sansa was the least sympathetic of the Starks in the first book; she has become more sympathetic, partly because she comes to accept responsibility for her part in her father's death.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html?tag=westeros-21&ie=UTF8&docId=49161

I don’t think I have actually read Sansa showing true remorse or regret for tattling Ned’s plans to Cersei. Or even feeling bad about how she treated Arya. As late as ASoS she thinks of her dead sister as being unsatisfactory compared to beautiful, graceful Margaery Tyrell. In the Vale, she pretends to be a bastard and yet never once recalls the bastard brother she looked down on.

There is a lot of self pity in Sansa’s POV chapters and she reprimands herself for being naive and stupid. But she never acknowledges the way she treated Arya, the Trident incident and Mycah, betraying her family etc. She does reflect at one point on how she wrongly trusted the Lannisters and she would never do that again.

Other than that there is very little introspection in Sansa’s POV chapters. Jon feels guilt, Arya feels guilt, Dany feels guilt, even Catelyn feels a twinge of regret and guilt about her treatment of Jon after meeting Mya Stone. But this is something I find lacking in Sansa’s POV chapters.

But when readers point this out, we are labelled misogynistic haters who just hate Sansa and want her to suffer, and how Sansa has nothing to apologize for, she did nothing wrong, she’s flawless and blameless of everything.

I am hoping we get acknowledgement, regret and apologies from Sansa when the older, wiser sisters meet again and resolve their issues. There is nothing wrong in apologizing for bad behavior. Everyone does it. It does not make one a super villain. It would go a long way towards humanizing Sansa and making her more likeable, in my opinion.

So anyways this turned into an essay, but yes, Jon Snow was a bully in AGoT when he went to the wall and beat up some new recruits. There is no defense of that behavior and I am glad that Donal Noye gave him a good talking to and set him straight about his privilege.

[fangirlfanwritings]

Jon x Targaryen!reader Request

Can I request a GoT one-shot, where R is Daenerys' younger twin sister (and the lover of Jon instead of her) and she becomes the new Queen of Westeros? Unlike Dany, she was never so hellbent on taking the Iron Throne, instead devoting herself to helping people (by healing, or killing enemies as she had been trained in art of combat by the Dothraki and Unsullied). People know of her immense kindness and deep regret over her sister's actions - which make her a perfect candidate for the Iron Throne

You sat on your horse behind the troops of men that were ready to storm King’s Landing in your sister’s name. Jon instructed some of the men and made his way towards you. You hopped of the horse and took his hands. “You’re shaking,” he noted.

“The love of my life is about to storm into a war zone...again. I can’t help but be worried.”

“I’ll be just fine.” You nodded and kissed him deeply. He left your side and went to the front of the line, ready for your sister to fly in on her dragon. You wanted to join the fight and, having been trained by the best you knew you could handle it, but your sister and Jon prohibited it.

******

Your eyes went wide at the scene before you. Daenerys flew over the city and commanded Drogon to set it aflame. You wept silent tears thinking about all the people inside the city. You had begged her not to do this. You pleaded with her not to set the city and her people on fire. She promised you she wouldn't do it unless it was necessary. Yet the bells had rung and she did it anyway.

You saw Jon appear from the city walls and you willed your horse to go as fast as you can. You threw yourself down into his arms and cried.

As soon as the city’s flames started to calm you entered with Jon at your side. He sent the Northern men back towards Winterfell, now eager for them to get far away. Ash rained down and looked like snow that you had seen in the North. You blinked back tears, trying not to show weakness. You heard the cries of a child and strayed from Jon’s side. “Y/N.”

You ignored him and let yourself in a charred house. You followed the muttered sound until you saw a small child crouched behind two brick walls that had managed to keep her from getting burned. “Hello, little one.” You knelt down and gently touched her shoulder. She looked up at you with red eyes and dirt on her face. “Are you ok?”

“I can’t find my Mother and Father.”

“Why don’t you come with me, little one.” You took the small child into your arms.

“It’s not safe to come into the buildings,” Jon told you from where he waited behind you.

“Even more reason this child shouldn’t be in there.” You walked with her towards the castle and spoke to the Unsullied. “I want you to split up and search the city. I want all those you find to be politely escorted to the building we are using to treat the injured.”

“Those are for our men, Princess.”

“I don’t care who they are for,” you hissed. “These are my people and they will take priority. They didn’t ask for this,” you whispered the last part. “Take your helmets off and search the city. Insure any citizen found is taken to triage and treated with medical attention.”

You looked to one of your handmaidens. “After I meet with my sister I will be there to assist in healing the people. Send a messenger out to the nearest city to collect extra tools and get toys for the children. They will need something to cheer them up.”

The tone in your voice was one you hadn’t heard in many years. Commanding and ruling wasn’t your passion. You spent your time learning to protect yourself after the years of torture your face, healing those that were hurt, and playing with orphaned and injured children. From what you were much like Rhaegar.

You walked into what was left of the Keep’s walls and saw your sister’s armies lined up and cheering her on as she flew in on Drogo. She stepped forwards as you and Jon made it to the top of the stairs. She spoke with a fire and confidence in her unlike anything you’d ever seen. But you had heard of it before. Viserys had often told stories of your Father and how he had been like this.

You were looking at a Mad Queen.

You looked over to Jon and reached for his hand, squeezing it fiercely.

******

You entered the holding cell Jon was in and took in his bruised face. “Y/N.”

“I came as soon as I heard.” You bent down and ran a thumb gently over his black and blue face. “Why did you do it? Why did you tell them it was you? You could have blamed anybody.”

“I did it for the people,” was all he said. “I’m sorry.”

“I know what she was. We couldn’t have stopped her. What you did,” you paused. “It was for the better. Your siblings should be here in a fortnight. We are going to get you out of here.” You kissed him gently. “I’ll be back as soon as I can.”

******

You tapped your foot eagerly as you waited for Tyrion and Jon to be brought into the pit. Grey Worm came out with only Tyrion in tow. “Where is Jon Snow,” you demanded.

“He is our prisoner.”

“So is Tyrion, yet here he stands.”

“Jon Snow is out prisoner and will be punished accordingly. He killed our Queen, we deserve his head.”

“There are over a thousand Northern men out there to tell you why killing Jon Snow is a bad idea,” Sansa informed him. “If you want him gone so badly then let him return to the North with us.”

“He needs to answer for his crimes.”

“Jon commited his crimes here. Let our King or our Queen decide,” Tyrion spoke up.

“We have no Queen and King.”

“So elect one.” Your head went on a swivel as you looked at Tyrion.

Grey Worm seemed to accept it. “Make your choice then.” You looked around at your fellow Lords and Ladies, waiting to hear who which of them they would support.

You watched as Lord Tully stood up and began delivering his speech for ruling. “Uncle, sit down.” You couldn’t help but smile at her. She had the confidence in herself. She knew how to lead the people. She would make a great Queen. Just as you were about to vouch for her Bran spoke up.

“Princess Y/N.” He stopped looking blankly into the air and looked at you. “You have lead alongside Daenerys and acted as her counterpart. You tried to keep her on the right path, doing what was best for the people. The people of Westeros have always been your first concern. Those in King’s Landing have saw how you treated those who were injured and cared for those left without a home. Word has spread of your kind nature and tender heart. They will support your claim to the throne.”

“I never wanted the throne,” you informed Bran and the rest of those in attendances. “And after what my sister did I can’t believe that the people will want to see me on the Iron Throne; or what will be placed in its place.”

“The people are already speaking of your kindness and have voiced support for you. They trust you in a way they never trusted your sister,” Sam spoke.

“Princess Y/N, should we agree for you to take the throne will you accept?” You looked at Tyrion and nodded.

“I never wanted to sit on the throne, I wanted to help the people. Now, it would be my honor to rule to provide a better life for the people of the 7 Kingdoms. They deserve better than what the Kings and Queens of late have given them. Should you support me I will make it my mission to see that the people are taken care of.”

“All in favor of Princess Y/N Targaryen please say ‘aye’. You watched as all the Lords spoke up in favor of you taking the throne. Sansa was the last to answer and she turned slightly towards you.

“Y/N, I am happy to consider you my friend. But the North lost many men in the war. They have seen too much to forget and can not kneel to another Southern Queen.” She turned back towards the rest of the Lords. “The North will remain independent, like it was for thousands of years.”

You nodded with a smile. “I accept and look forward to seeing your Kingdom flourish.”

“Then with a unanimous agreement I name you Queen Y/N Targaryen, First of her name, Queen of the Andals and the Rhoynar, and the First Men", Lady of the Six Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm.”

“As my first order I pardon Tyrion Lannister and name him Hand of the Queen.”

“My Queen, I am not worthy. After everything that’s happened…”

“He is a traitor. He needs to be punished.”

“Which is what I am doing. He will be placed to serve in a job he hates until the end of his days. He has made many mistakes and will spend the rest of his life fixing them.”

“What of Jon, my Queen,” Arya asked.

“Jon Snow will be charged with being the Captain of my Queen’s Guard.”

“No,” Grey Worm argued. “He killed our Queen. He deserves to lose his head.”

“He killed your late queen, my sister,” you seethed. “I am your Queen now. You have looked to me for guidance since Dany’s death and I haven’t steered you wrong. Have I?” He stayed still. “Have I,” you nearly yelled.

“No, my Queen.”

“What Jon did he believed was for the better of the realm. That is what my sister believed as she carried out all her action; the actions you followed. Now it is my turn. You and your men are leaving soon, leaving me in need of a man who knows war. Jon is the best we have, whether you like it or not. He will be put to work and will not be allowed to venture back up North. That way he shall no longer have access to a family.” You waited to see his reaction. Realizing he wouldn’t win he nodded.

******

Jon was lead into the throne room and was surprised to see you at the head of steps, his siblings beside you. “Leave us,” you commanded the Unsullied and soldiers. They closed the doors and left you with Jon and the Starks.

“My Queen,” he knelt at the foot of the stairs.

“Rise, Jon Snow, the Commander of the Queen’s Guard.”

“The Queen’s Guard? Grey Worm is letting me keep my head?”

“Due to the Queen’s command,” Arya grinned and hugged him.

He looked sadly at you. “That means we can never marry. I can have no children.”

You stepped down in front of him and smiled. “Haven’t you heard? The new Queen is allowing the head of the Queen’s Guard to have a family. She’s looking forward to it, in fact.”

[borderlinetheongreyjoys]

"Dany is Nissa Nissa and Jon is Azor Ahai so actually the show is right!"

*mac voice* alright, let me take you bitches to school I've been seeing a lot of book reader theorists rush to justify Jon's murder of Dany in the (blessedly) final episode of the show. despite some of these same theorists previously opining that Dany, Jon, and Tyrion, as the 3 heads of the dragon, will all die to defeat the Others, now because of the show, the theory in vogue is that Jon skewers Dany with Longclaw to create Lightbringer and defeats the Others himself, while Tyrion holds down the fort in King's Landing as "Hand of the Queen", and I guess Dany's body just fucking......rots north of the wall with no one ever finding out she died. It's poetic, you see. But seriously? First of all, I know GRRM has said that he told D&D the broad strokes of his ending, but we also already know that D&D disregarded aspects of that ending for Shock Value™ (Arya killing the night King and defeating the others anyone?). So why in the hell should I trust any of what they've written for their ending, when they have not paid any care or attention to Martin's set up since basically s4? But, you say, the Azor Ahai prophecy exists and Jon has a sword, so it's entirely possible and likely he will be Azor Ahai and Dany will be his Nissa Nissa! Except, what's wrong with that story? Here's Dany, the prince who was promised, the mother of dragons, she of the prophetic dreams about slaying the Others--and you're telling me her narrative will end with a man killing her (with her consent of course--feminism!!!) for His heroic arc and His man pain and His benefit? Seriously? If GRRM did do that, then I would honestly take back all my defenses of this series, because that is so blatantly sexist, it's not even vaguely humorous. Dany already has Lightbringer. Three, in fact. She lost the man she loved (and also had a lot of complex feelings for, but that's a whole other thing). She mercy-killed him and burned his body to bring forth her dragons. She has already fulfilled that prophecy. In fact, pretty much every prophecy can apply either to her solely or to her and one or two other characters (the only one I think doesn't really apply to her is the Last Hero--because I think that's Bran, who will help the 3 heads of the dragon but live while they sacrifice their lives). Shunting her aside in favor of Jon makes no sense to me. And I don't care if, in the scene, she begs for him to kill her. That still implies that women should embrace death for the sake of the men in their lives. What the fuck? The Azor Ahai prophecy is problematic already because it utilizes that trope, but it would be so much worse if GRRM doubles down on that and kills Dany in service of that prophecy (or Arya or any other female character you want to throw on the fire for Jon's sake). And the show didn't do it to fulfill that prophecy anyway. Dany died because she was ~~~craaaaaazy~~~~~ , not because it was necessary to save the world. Even if you say that in the books, the events of the show will be reversed (KL before the North, rather than the other way around), that doesn't track with the argument that the show is telling us the book ending. Obviously it isn't, if the show already messed with the order of events! Yes, it's possible I'm wrong, and there will be a big old egg on my face if/when TWOW and ADOS come out. But my criticism of the misogyny of such a storyline would still stand. Dany as a character deserves better than to be kindling for Jon's fiery sword.

[tomakeitbeautifultolive]

Hey! I recently found your blog and saw you believed in N+A=D, which is a theory I read a few years ago and really enjoyed,, I plan on reading your more in dept analysis on your site when I have time, thanks for putting it together! I really like this theory since it mirrors J and D even more and it also removes the rape and Aerys' madness in general from D. Now a question: do you believe this theory will be discussed in the show (only 2 eps left) or is it gonna stick to the books if it is true?

A woman after my own heart!  This theory is the dearest to my heart! @ktwrites and I have expanded the theory much more than wherever you last heard it, I assure you. (For anyone wondering, this is our site)

First, thank you SO much for recognizing that this theory mirrors Jon and Dany even further!

That’s the part that hooked me in, too. If Jon is rumored to be born of rape but actually born of love, shouldn’t Dany be, too? I think the pair of them having parents with star-crossed, tragic love stories is actually perfect for a pair that comes together to break the wheel that drove their parents apart in the first place.

All of the anti arguments about Daenerys vanish, since let’s face it, they usually come from (homogeneous) Stark stans. Dany gets the blame for what Aerys did before she was born, gets accused of sharing his madness, and also, the incest. If this theory is true, Jon and Dany are downgraded to cousins rather than aunt/nephew. Fucking everyone in Westeros are cousins. Rickard & Lyarra, Tywin & Joanna…

Also, then these lines about “I am the last Targaryen,” and “A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing,” and “The last dragon.” Then actually mean something literal.

I do have a page on the site about show clues, but fuck it - I’ll add some here.

The Dragon and the Wolf?

But… Jon’s a dragon. I don’t make the rules. He is Aegon Targaryen - Dragon, fire. Sure, he has Stark blood. But if Jon is a Stark, then Sansa, Arya, and Bran are Tullys (I don’t make the rules). So… who is ice and who is fire? Right now it’s more like The Dragon and the Dragon and A Song of Fire and Fire.

Curiously, the new Mother’s Day card (I know, I know it has Targ symbols) features an icy border:

And okay. Dany’s aversion to fire, which many relate to her being a Targaryen… maybe it has more to do with the ice in her veins? After all, we see Jon burned by fire:

And later wearing a bandage on his hand:

Meanwhile, we have Jon able to survive a deep dive in freezing cold water that probably would’ve killed a normal person - maybe the fire in his blood? This is all wild speculation now, so I’ll stop lmfao. One other thing though, in Fire & Blood, Alysanne’s dragon Silverwing refused to go past the Wall, it sounds almost like there was some sort of magical barrier there. Meanwhile, Dany has no problem getting past it. Which could just be plot convenience, admittedly.

Like in the books, the fallen direwolf (symbolizing Ned) at the beginning of the series has six pups. Ned has five children (so far as we know).

Dany and the color blue:

Now, I know what Michelle Clapton says about Dany always wearing blue - “Dothraki power color” Which is strange to me, since blue is one of the rarest pigments during this time period. I know, it’s just a show. Dany looks good in blue. Maybe that’s all it means.

But Stark women have a tendency to wear blue, likely as a nod to the blue ‘winter rose’, in which the Stark lady in the Bael the Bard tale is literally referred to as a winter rose.

Likewise, Dany wears greys and purples (if she is Ashara Dayne’s daughter, then purple would be her mother’s house color):

The Starks have a tendency to ride white horses. White is a Stark color. Jon has always ridden a black horse, which is a Targaryen color.

(Yeah, Dany rides a black horse beside Jon in S8, but she also tends to wear red colors while in his presence… bride of fire, eh?)

While Ashara Dayne is never mentioned on the show (I don’t think Rhaella is, either… despite Dany always wearing that ring, which is never explained in the show proper, rather in BTS stuff or interviews). Ashara Dayne is mentioned in the history and lore for the Season 6 DVD Extras.

Daenerys’ costume also shares similarities with Ned’s, in the way she wears her cape as well as the diagonal chain across her chest:

Ned has interesting reactions toward Dany’s assassination attempt. He doesn’t seem to give two shits about Viserys, telling Robert that if he makes it to Westeros, they’ll throw him back in the Narrow Sea, meanwhile Ned is chin-wobbling upset after hearing it’s too late to reverse the hit on Dany’s life. Arguably more upset than he was after seeing the dead body of a freshly murdered child, Mycah (though that’s debatable, I’m sure). There are some interesting transition scenes between Dany and Ned, particularly my favorite:

And then there are early promo photos where Dany and Ned are put together:

In season 7, Daenerys says Dragonstone does not feel like a homecoming, and she goes and touches Dorne on the Painted Table immediately thereafter:

There’s a curious line from Cersei during the Dragonpit meeting, saying basically she couldn’t trust Dany’s word, but could trust Jon’s word because he’s Ned Stark’s son. The shot hangs on Dany as she speaks the line about Ned Stark’s son (watch the clip here):

We’ve got other lines too, about how when Jon is elected King in the North, Lyanna Mormont says, this:

“I don’t care if he’s a bastard, Ned Stark’s blood runs through his veins.”

(But it doesn’t…) Even Dany is talking about Ned:

“I was born at Dragonstone. Not that I can remember it. We fled before Robert’s Assassins could find us. Robert was your father’s best friend, no? I wonder if your father knew his best friends sent assassins to murder a baby girl in her crib. Not that it matters now, of course.”

Varys knows damned well Ned tried everything in his power to prevent her murder (I wish he’d fucking tell her, whether or not she’s Ned’s secret bastard).

There are rumors we’re getting Robert’s Rebellion/Tourney at Harrenhal flashback next episode (I don’t know whether I believe it), but Wilf Scolding did have a mysterious deleted Instagram post indicating he was filming - so maybe we’ll see Ned and Ashara, too? Fingers crossed.

If everyone is talking about how Jon and Dany parallel Duncan and Jenny, which is a pairing comprised of a common girl and a dark-haired Targaryen prince… then just maybe Jon gives up his claim for say, a bastard girl? Dany being a Stark bastard and associated with flowers/roses, possible CotF relation via Stark blood… might make her have more in common with Jenny than if she were a Targaryen? 🤔

There may be more, I haven’t done a full, proper rewatch in a while, I admit. Probably too late now, lol. I’d say that there is a big “WTF” twist coming so there’s a chance - many attribute this to a leak involving Tyrion but… I feel like that was something that was foreshadowed, unlike Hodor/hold the door.

All that said though, I’d say the likelihood of this ending up on screen probably is slim. But again, we have a wealth of evidence on our site that must mean something. GRRM basically admits that the lemon tree mystery means something (and no, I don’t buy that it means the betrothal to Quentyn because he was more or less a non-issue anyway).

And there may be a chance GRRM is saving twists for his book, especially considering this:

My best guess would be Barristan Selmy, since in the books, over in Essos, nowhere near Jon, he’s bringing up that Dany looks like Ashara’s daughter, and by this point we don’t really need a red herring for Jon Snow’s mother, since most readers had figured it out.