#idk it just feels like. free. if that makes sense

[gremlinpenguin]

Some semi-coherent analysis threads bc my dumb ass needs bullet points to stay organized:

—SEASON FINALE SPOILERS BELOW!!!—

I’ve been dissecting some of allegorical elements of the story- I’m not sure if these are intended or even completely accurate to the story, just my interpretation of how every single narrative element potentially ties together, which is insanely impressive. Some of these are speculations or extrappolations; it’s hard to confirm some things until we know Buddy’s backstory, but this is based on his statement that he’s “never been the hero in any story, not even his own” (AAHHAHAHLSJHSKHSSKJ)

Sorry if some of these thoughts make no sense feel free to me for clarification lol, and I might be repeating things that have been said before but idk. And if i quote anything then I pulled it from the finale

BUT THE WHOLE STORY WORLD IS A METAPHOR FOR ROLES, CONVENTIONS, AND BREAKING EXPECTATIONS

The stories and their roles parallel the characters’ interiority

- chase is defiant of his role

- Buddy believes that his role defines him

- “What the stories want” > the characters wanting to break out of their roles

“Maybe this isn’t the ending that was supposed to happen” > DEVELOPMENT

- difference between who we are vs. who we think we are

- Think we’re “supposed to turn out” one way according to roles

- World where hero <3 villain = breaking conventions and expectations

- Ties in with the roles were given

“Our roles are gone, the world is gone, but we’re still here”

- we are our cores, not the roles we’re assigned

- The world cannot change who you truly are

- The world/roles getting destroyed = allowed them to be themselves

- Buddy became the hero

- Chase showed his vulnerability

Character complexity: buddy is and isn’t a “hero”

- there is no black and white answer

- He’s a complex person who made mistakes that he deeply regrets

- At the same time, he never caused any physical harm to chase- and when he did, he was instantly remorseful

If you think about buddy’s perspective, he fits the role of a hero

- in a bad situation

- Needs something to fix that situation

- Someone is in his way of achieving that goal for what he’s been trained to believe are selfish reasons

BUT THE METAPHORICAL PARTS!!!

Every storybook fantasy world was fake

- literally the entire setting wasn’t real

- The whole story is a giant metaphor

- Roles in stories = roles we think we fit into

- How roles inhibit you from who you really are

We can all be heroes or villains, regardless of what role we’re given

- chase defies his role as a kid who can’t go to college and needs to make money > still dreams big despite the hand he’s been dealt

“Stories just want an ending even if it’s not the one you’d expect”

- direct metaphor- ppl want to be themselves regardless of their roles

- You can’t control who someone is going to be

- All that matters is that they like themself, no matter what they expected

- They want to be enjoyed > people just want to live

The story ending = just living regardless of roles

- the stories are all fake but a direct parallel to the human personality

- We put up walls and fake facades to hide what we actually are/want

- The roles don’t matter as long as we just live

- Roles are put in place to try and create smoothness/structure

- we confine ourselves into fantasy book roles - ie deacon being the helper - without realizing that we have full power to get out of those

- We tell ourselves stories of what’s real/what we’re capable of

-the stories themselves are confining to the multi dimensional nature of human possibility

And Chase was literally invented to defy the stereotypical isekai tropes. Every character is strongly defiant of what someone might expect a stereotypical hero, villain, and sidekick to be- they’re so much richer, they all have motives and desires. And they each want to feel like “the hero” but it’s so far out of their grasps. The storybooks set an expectation of what a hero is - by literally fitting people into roles - I mean come on how much more symbolic can it get than literally ASSIGNING ROLES with the keys - but they all have a complex idea of how “being a hero” fits into their lives.

But as silver said, people love the hero because they tried- and Chase, buddy, and deacon are all trying so hard to find peace in their lives.

Back to the finale-

All the story wants is a true loves kiss > it just wants them to be themselves

- love is love lol

- Roles don’t matter, you matter

Roles > chase never fit into his role

- strong foil for buddy, who fully defined himself by his role

- Chase believed he could choose his role regardless of what life gave him

Chase is all about breaking conventions and doing the impossible

- Embodiment of unconventionality

- First to break out of role/callous hero expectation

Buddy is the embodiment of surrendering to his role

- letting it control him through fear and low self-esteem

- Surrendered to his role because he feels like a villain irl

Something always goes wrong in the stories- people are not meant to fit into roles

- chase defying the stories = rebelling against societal roles and expectations

- Buddy being a stickler for accuracy- he doesn’t know how to escape his role

“Our roles are gone, the world is gone, but we’re still here”

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHSJDKFKSDJFHSKSKSJFJSJSHAHDJGKKSJAHSHDHD

- BIG HEALING MOMENT BC NOTHING IS THERE TO CONFINE BUDDY AKA HIS BELIEF SYSTEM THAT TELLS HIM HES THE VILLAIN HES LITERALLY SHEDDING HIS ROLE BC THE WORLD HAS BEEN DESTROYED SO THEIR ROLES HAVE BEEN DESTROYED TOO AAAAHHH THIS QUOTE NEEDS TO PAY RENT BC ITS SPENT WAY TOO MUCH TIME IN MY HEAD

- I mean come on. Yes I am a simp for metaphorical apocalypses but THIS. THEIR ROLES HAVE BEEN DESTROYED. THE TWO OF THEM ARE LITERALYYYY ALL THATS LEFT

anygay

Dreams by night episode-

- the hero’s dreams come true- but not really

- In real life, your happily ever after doesn’t always happen

- The coffin: Buddy is mentally trapped in his villain role

- He doesn’t know how to get out

- The coffin is an emotional box that he’s stuck in

- Doesn’t believe he could be anything but the villain

- Buddy’s dream could be a flashback

- Blood on his clothes- possibly had to fight other “contestants”

- I think buddy was pit against other ppl but there was one who he really cared about and let down

- He’s definitely missing someone in his life who’s no longer here

- Fighting could have convinced him he was the villain

- Or failing to save the person he cared about

- Could have made him think he’s selfish = villain

- Or survivors guilt

- Mirror = reflection of himself

- Sees chase in his reflection = sees the part of him that he knows isn’t a villain

- Chase is making him believe that he could be good/worthy of kindness and love

- Chase symbolizes the part of himself that’s fighting to break out of his villain role

- Chase gives him hope

- Not even fully aware of his internal journey

- Chase is so clearly a fresh and new viewpoint in his life

- Surprised bc he hasn’t been cared for like that before

- “This is how it has to be” - he cannot break out of his villain role

- It’s been so deeply ingrained in him

- He doesn’t think there’s any way out

- Mirror is dark > conforming to the darkness of his role

Buddy was never the bad guy > he has a very strong motivation for getting the keys back, aka turning human again

- he never lied to chase

- He helped chase finish the stories

- He told him that he needed the keys back and Chase refused

- His pranks were only ways to accomplish his goal

- Trying to get chase’s location in beach boys > couldn’t comprehend why Chase would be genuine

- Used to humans being manipulative and unkind

- Why should he think Chase is any different?

Buddy has never done something outwardly bad and not apologized for it

- so fast to apologize when he cut chase’s face

- He’s aware of the line between good and bad

He never fights back when people attack him

- Just accepts all the bad things that happen to him

- Doesn’t try to stop people from hurting him

Both buddy and Chase have done “good” and “bad” things but Buddy has never had bad motivation

- all his motivation was in self-defense

- Chase also triggers him in many ways

- Reacting to his own past through his experience with Chase

Buddy doesn’t get <that> upset with Chase when he finds out about the key - “you think I’d kidnap a poor child?”

- he’s aware of others’ perceptions of him

- The fact that he doesn’t seem super betrayed or disappointed is even sadder

- “Why would anyone think that I’m good/trust me”

- Matches his original expectations and views of himself

- Probably felt like Chase was too good to be true

- He’s used to humans betraying him

- Chase lying = affirmation that his belief system is correct

Why buddy is kinda mean to chase at first- he thinks he’s the same as the ex libris guys

- Thinks chase is making selfish wishes

- Associates him with the people who (presumably) abused buddy to get their wish

- He sees chase as a threat

Chase is threat = have to fight back

- his pranks on Chase are meant to tire him out but also to look stronger

- Insulting Chase over his weaknesses = trying to be the tougher guy

- Literally boxed and suppressed

- Matches his need to be in control of situations

- Needs everything to go the right way > triggered by his helplessness irl

main reason why he’s mean to chase- thinks chase is privileged in the ways he’s not

- calls him a brat- oblivious, doesnt think he’s suffered

- thinks chase is just playing around, which buddy can’t afford to do

chase triggers one of his deepest insecurities- having what buddy doesn’t (or so he thinks)

- don’t know buddys backstory but it has a lot less kindness/goodness

- jealous of chase but also resentful of his attitude (initially)

why buddy messes with chase - he’s a pretty big attention seeker

- he gets annoyed when deacon is around

- wants his “rivalry” with chase all to himself

- attention seeking = byproduct of surroundings

- given a lack of positive attention

punko confirmed that buddy is lazy > lack of motivation

- people without love/support can lack motivation to accomplish things

- buddy is mistreated > no reason to strive for what he wants

- Could possibly feel undeserving

- Especially if he failed to save someone he cared about

- “laziness” is interloped with symptoms of depression

Chase uses the stories as escapism

- his real life is much harder

- Mom is sick, family judges him for not having a corporate job

Buddy insulting his voice on the heels of his visits to the aunt and uncle’s house- OUCH

- chase is so strong fr I’d prolly react more like franny

Buddy starts saving chase / being the hero after beach boys

- sick day- saves deacon and brings chase to safety

- Jailer- rescues chase from creepy guy

- Still waters- saves chase’s and everyone else’s lives

That’s all I have now! I love dissecting stories and picking them apart, but oh my freaking god the storytelling in this webtoon is next-next-tier. I’m just stunned at how incredibly detailed the characters are and how every scene is packed with subtext and emotion- funny moments, sad ones, heart wrenching ones, devastating but hopeful ones. I’ve been trying to find what makes Chase + buddy’s dynamic so strong between characterization, internal conflict, belief systems, behavior, backstory, etc. and I’m sure it all comes down to punko’s imagination and her unfettered love for the story. But if you’re a chronic overthinker and obsessive analyzer like me I’d looooove to hear your thoughts, theories, analyses, or anything at all!! Especially about the dreams by night episode IM GONNA CRACK THE CODE I KNOW I WILL

[latinfeline]

i feel like this has been talked about to death but i want to talk about how different the anna kiss scene was between paths

this post is going to be really long so i'll crop it here, spoilers ahead obviously

first off: anna's reaction to lane's feelings

on lost compassion (lc) anna is hesitant to get close to lane because she doesn't want her own feelings hurt. idk how consistent this is with her character especially on this path (as she and lane are pretty codependant already before this) but it's better than the alternative.

on awakened compassion (ac) anna's just straight up homophobic. the only real reason she doesn't want to enter a relationship with lane is because she's a woman. it's a somewhat interesting conflict for a character to have, but only when done right (this isn't), and it also doesn't make sense as anna on the lc path doesn't have many hangups about lane being a woman iirc.

second: her reaction to the kiss

lc anna is having a good time, good for you girl. (assuming my reading of 'bucking' as she's pressing against lane in a /pos way is accurate)

ac anna meanwhile is angered and disgusted. the use of 'she wanted to wash herself off' is so disheartening to me especially, like has there ever been another li disgusted by the mc's advances? it feels like she doesn't even like women here. even tata, who is battling internalized homophobia, still recognizes that she is attracted to women and enjoys lada's affection. even aside from that, this isn't a problem to lc anna, who is the same character! the difference between lc and ac is lane, not anna.

third: reciprocation!

on the lc path anna kisses back. this is the bare minimum and i don't think sasha should be praised for this. yes, the scene is good, but should the players on the ac path really need to switch over just for their li to kiss them back?

meanwhile ac anna is just sitting there? no matter what's going on surrounding it, this is a romance story, and our li isn't even kissing back. and based on the rest of the scene, it feels like she isn't even attracted to lane. adding 'without being mean or angry' when she wsa angry about it just a little while ago is an extra kick in the gut.

so tldr the awakened compassion scene sucks (everyone already knew that) the lost compassion scene is ok but a little ooc, and looking at them side to side makes anna ten times more confusing

rant over ig feel free to discuss especially if you're more media literate than i am

[the-clock-of-the-time-dragon]

So we're doing this, lol. Okay.

He is a double agent.

Literally just headcanon. As I said. Like, I think it's a GOOD headcanon — as I also said — but even you admit that it requires heavy inference and conjecture to claim that he did anything to help Animals; and slipping in "I don't think of her as a Wicked Witch" and wanting to push back against the more insane rumors is not being a double agent (which would require actual action), it's being a known contrarian and former friend of hers. As I explained to begin with: his quest to find her is not evidence of some kind of revolutionary activity behind the scenes — it's evidence that he wanted to personally reunite with her, which is exactly what his actions led to.

Fiyero knows this, by placing himself here he is in the best position both to protect Elphaba but also protect the Animals in the regime.

He didn't do either of those things though. Like, I fully believe that he wanted Elphaba unharmed (obviously) and that he had some qualms with rounding up the Animals... but he literally volunteered for the Harm Elphaba and Round Up the Animals Brigade, and there is zero evidence he did anything to undermine them until she finally showed up in the Wizard's palace unexpectedly.

Given he used the first opportunity, when they wouldn’t get in trouble, to help the Lion Cub it seems a pretty good inference that he was trying to send out warnings to Animals when he could (especially now the movieverse has made him the only character aside from Elphaba who is friends with an Animal – he probably even has a network he can tap into!).

I would like to see that fleshed out in the second movie, yes — because I agree it would be in character, but on stage, we're left to just hope that he did that (albeit his hypothetical offscreen attempts to help Animals still seem objectively outweighed by his actions that harmed them, so — again, as I said — his having sympathy for them doesn't seem to have stopped him from knowingly doing a lot more harm than good).

IDK about you, but I think if I were to search for someone wanted and was given the opportunity to both have the best resources and information to find her and hamper people who might find her and hurt her, I would totally do it this way too.

Saying you'd totally join the Gestapo instead of the Resistance if given the chance — because of "resources and information" — is not the winning argument you think it is, I'm sorry, lol. Like, if he'd already been a soldier before he realized it was fashy, that might make a bit more sense. If that were the case, then yeah he should've become a double agent! But as it is, it kinda just seems like you're making a lot of excuses for why volunteering to do fascism is justified as long as you feel bad about it and (speculatively) tried to sabotage it (with no evident success whatsoever). I would truly love to believe in Double Agent Fiyero, and I hope that's the direction the second movie goes with him: but I also really liked the Amoral Nihilist Fiyero we got on stage. You keep acting like I'm denigrating him as a character, but I can only express so many times that I'm not. He's a great character: just not a great guy imho.

I know we don’t see him helping the Animals, but nor do we really see Elphaba doing so?

No, we don't see Elphaba doing stuff to help Animals onstage (albeit, as I've said, there don't really seem to be any free Animals left by the time we get to Act II), but there are at least direct statements that she's been involved with the Animal resistance. There isn't even an implication that Fiyero tried to do that, let alone did. You're basing your interpretation of his character on speculation — because it is somewhat difficult, in some ways, to reconcile the compassionate boy we saw in the woods with the fascist commander he's become by Act II — but I'm basing my reading on sheer text; on the actions and statements on the page. Regardless of whether you choose to think he was secretly doing a ton of anti-regime work behind the scenes, I just don't think (as I've said) that the preponderance of his behavior really justifies that. Because at the very least he was still choosing to swallow his compassion and do fascist stuff at the same time, and in the end those were the actions that objectively shaped the future of Oz, not the imagined attempts at sabotage he may or may not have done. Either way, he's interesting, but his actions are hard to defend.

Does this mean he didn’t commit atrocities? No probably not. But bear in mind if he hadn’t been doing it, someone else would have.

Yikes...

He literally succeeded in the exact goal he was planning by joining the Gale Force: to protect Elphaba.

But he didn't protect Elphaba. He couldn't even fuckin find her, lol. She protected herself. While he was actively participating in the violent repression that she hated more than anything in the world.

If he hadn’t been Captain of the Guard in the throne room when the Wizard called his guards she would have been captured and killed, instead she escaped which eventually allowed the Wizard to be overthrown and Elphaba’s values to be acted on in the form of Glinda ruling.

None of which was REMOTELY planned, or even likely. Granting for the sake of argument that she would definitely have been captured and/or killed had he not been in that exact place at that exact time — I'm not convinced of that — if we're really gonna try these long-term domino effect arguments, then Glinda's questionable choice not to get on the broom was actually a heroic act that ultimately led to the liberation of Oz! Come on.

There is a difference between keeping quiet, not protesting a regime and actively endorsing it. Glinda was doing the latter and she was not forced into that. (She also was not helping undermine it the same way Fiyero was).

Yes, she was literally forced into that, lol. Claiming she wasn't forced into her position when she was literally captured and molded into an asset of the regime — and then moralizing about her trying to make the best out of her literal enslavement — whilst somehow insisting that Fiyero going out of his way to enlist as an armed servant of the regime wasn't "endorsing the regime", is actually absurd. Like, it's all well and good to believe his ulterior motives for joining make it okay, but to argue that the guy who volunteers to do the hands-on violent repression side of the regime is somehow "protesting it" because he said a couple things mildly out-of-step (so mild that he doesn't seem to have faced any official criticism for it whatsoever), while the girl we saw two seconds away from getting imprisoned or worse right before the intermission is "not forced into endorsing it"?? In what universe??

Madame Morrible made abundantly clear that the only thing keeping Glinda from being thrown to the wolves like Elphaba was serving as a pretty mouthpiece for the Wizard, and nothing more. I've got a whole list of decisions she actually, with little to no coercion, that I think are legitimately questionable. But you aren't even citing those: you're just victim-blaming because she didn't... suffer enough? Or signal against her abusers enough? Like YES, I will say there's a point where a victim can cross lines and become complicit to varying degrees in their own situation — she herself all but admits this — but unless we're going to talk specifically about those instances of dubiousness, it seems as if you're just blaming her for trying to make space for herself to breathe and not be miserable every waking moment of her... *checks notes*... forced servitude in the regime with absolute power over her life????? A victim trying to make the best of their terrible predicament is not a crime. And Glinda makes very clear that having to spread lies about Elphie is an abuse against her; it's a pain to her very soul. Saying it's her fault and that she wasn't forced into it is just... gross tbh.

But do not pretend for one moment that she is not actively complicit in this regime, with no real desire to stop it until it starts actively hurting her.

Yes, she got a lot of things that she wanted out of her arrangement. She is a complex character, after all. She's flawed. Certainly not the "perfect" victim. She also understands that Elphaba would want her to be safe and happy, and that silly (and outright wrong) rumors will not actually bring any more harm to Elphaba than what she already faces. It's a challenging situation, but Glinda chose to pursue a net positive approach: do her part to maintain her situation, make the best of it, and trust that one day Elphie would manage to set things right. She was incorrect — in the end, she had to be the one to do what Elphaba couldn't — but to claim that she was at fault for her own situation and could/should have done more to push back but just didn't want to enough (and moreover, that Fiyero somehow is NOT accountable for his much more violent, much more voluntary situation), is just perverse. The regime was actively hurting her the entire time; Fiyero certainly understands suffering and living one's best life at the same time, so don't act like it doesn't count for her.

He gave up his wealth, privilege and safety to ensure Elphaba escaped from the throne room and continued her cause (this isn’t about running away with Elphaba btw, he lost everything from the moment he pointed the gun at the Wizard). He was ready to die for her in the Corn Field scene. I don’t know what more you want him to do to prove that he was not shallow and he wouldn’t die for his cause in the exact same way Elphaba was prepared to?

He acted on spontaneous desire, as he always does, and is a nihilist who never gave a shit about any of the things (or people) he cast to the wind to begin with. "He lost everything" — and you expect me to find that brave and romantic, I take it? I don't. Throwing caution and care aside to run off and have a passionate night with the object of his affects isn't WRONG — and I've never said that it is — it's foolish and selfish and impulsive. And as I explained many times: I think it's cool that he's like that. But please do not expect me to accept your premise that these actions were deep and selfless. The actions of a depressive with nothing left to lose, recklessly pursuing the one and only object of obsession that keeps him going — irrespective of all other considerations, even hers — is actually shallow and selfish. It isn't a crime to act on passion or desperation or whatever, and as I've said, I think it's really interesting on multiple levels. Just because he's shallow doesn't mean he doesn't have layers; just not many. We can acknowledge his motives as essentially selfish and still respect that he defended her. I think we should be a little more critical and ALSO account for the consequences of his actions in ways that he did not. Why is that such a controversial suggestion?

Fiyero is the only character of the trio to put thoughts into his actions. He is the only one who doesn’t immediately act on his impulses.

Hard disagree. Like yeah, Elphaba and Glinda have their own brands and moment of impulsivity too — I wrote about it in my original post — but no, Fiyero does not think through shit. He doesn't think about the potential consequences of denouncing the rumors about Elphie; Glinda has to temper his impulse to do so. He doesn't think about the potential consequences of abandoning Glinda; for never cared about either his own safety or hers, only Elphie's. If you assume he joined in the army to be a double agent, then he clearly didn't think through or care about all the violence he was going to have to commit.

I'm not saying he isn't clever — his thoughtlessness is not a function of lacking intelligence, but of lacking concern — and I'm not saying he's reactive to denigrate him. Things happen around him, and if it's something that ignites his passion he acts boldly and fearlessly, with zero concern for anyone or anything outside of that moment. When he makes "plans", they're all very ad hoc and making resourceful use of situations that he absolutely did not (and could not) have planned for. Which is neat! Some find that bold, spontaneous, "she's all that I care for in this world" intense personality type romantic. I'm not one of them, but I can see the appeal; as I've acknowledged. I think it's a bit sad that he behaves that way tbh: because it speaks to his pretty hollow existence, as Elphaba herself identified.

[Wicked Act II spoilers]

[edited for tone and clarity of purpose, apologies for initial crudeness and frustration]

Okay, obviously I'm biased, but I'm gonna need the Fiyeraba shippers to please set a lot of your people straight about some things. I've seen way too many people trying to say that Glinda is just a selfish bimbo and that Fiyero is a virtuous and selfless figure more worthy of Elphaba's love. I'll set aside for now the idea of "worthiness" in this context. But let's start off with Fiyero joining the Wizard. Hoo boy...

Yes, he was initially somewhat less tolerant of the propaganda against Elphaba than Glinda was; yes, he was secretly trying to find her so he could run away with her or whatever. But honey: those facts DO NOT fully absolve his actions as the Wizard's top officer, or selfish recklessness throughout Act II. I see so many popular threads and posts romanticizing and whitewashing with "oh but he didn't REALLY join the Wizard, he just pretended so he could try to get to Elphie! It's all for love, and he sacrificed everything for her!" As if the literal captain of the literally fascist forces responsible for the oppression of Animals wasn't equally responsible for said oppression?? Hello? Fiyero really didn't think of seeking out Elphaba in ANY other way that DIDN'T involve becoming *checks notes*... the trusted leader of the troops committing all the abuses she's fighting against in the first place???? Like it's cool and all that he helped with Brrr, and it's all well and good that he planned on betraying the Wizard as soon as he found Elphaba (which took literal years, so I guess we're left to assume he was prepared to just keep doing fascism indefinitely if she didn't show up????), but uh... it's kind of concerning to how eager some of you are to make excuses for this dude volunteering as the head of the Ozian Gestapo??? smdh

He didn't accomplish anything from it either, by the way — like yeah, we get it, he did everything he did whilst silently fantasizing about running away with the Witch he was being paid to hunt. Fine. But I can't be the only one who doesn't buy that as an actual excuse???? Like, guys: nobody forced him to join the fascist army — even with crazy ulterior motives. He wasn't coerced into it; it wasn't his only choice or anything. Searching for Elphaba did not somehow compel him to go and volunteer to follow (or to give!) orders in the name of the dictator who was trying to have her assassinated the entire time. He could have just not done all that. (Genuinely so curious how the second film plans on covering that material tbh)

Glinda made several questionable decisions that can be (and have been) debated, but she is still very unambiguously a victim. Her position in the Wizard's regime was foisted upon her. There are things we can discuss, but I find that many folks need reminding that Glinda would undoubtedly have been disposed of (or worse) if she failed to make herself useful. I mean hell: she wasn't even supposed to meet the Wizard in the first place — she was only there because of Elphie. If she'd tried to resist, it would have immediately gotten her labeled the Witch's accomplice. As soon as she'd chosen not to get on the broom, her fate was out of her hands, and all available options were varying degrees of horrible.

That's not the case with Fiyero. He went to the Wizard all on his own; no one ever cornered or forced him into it. Thinking Animals are people, and having a crush on Elphaba, simply did not stop him from carrying out the regime's orders — for years. It's not clear exactly how long he's been captain at the start of Act II, but the clear implication is that he's been a soldier for most of the time skip. I've seen Fiyeraba accounts with headcanons about him acting as a double agent, secretly doing stuff to help Animals — and that's a great idea, it would indeed serve to make a lot of his actions way more palatable — but until we actually get to SEE some of that (maybe they'll add it for the movie version of Act II; we'll have to see), there is nothing in the story to suggest that. He certainly didn't do a damn thing for all those Animals who were enslaved and caged in the Wizard's palace — and we don't see a single other Animal outside of there in Act II, so as far as we know Fiyero has participated over those years in the near-total removal of Animals from Ozian society. In the name of "finding Elphaba". Not fighting for her cause. Just finding HER. For HIMSELF.

It's fine to have a ship you like, obviously — and there is genuinely a lot to like about Fiyeraba, I don't dislike the idea of them as a couple or as friends — but come on guys: please stop those out there idealizing Fiyero as somehow a clear "morally-superior" alternative to Glinda, lol. The dude had power, access, and opportunities, for years, that he could have wielded in any number of really selfless, revolutionary ways. He didn't. And I propose (apparently controversially): he simply didn't want to. And that — at the end of the day — is (much as some would like to deny it) true to his character. He always WANTED to be self-absorbed and shallow, and all his actions are consistent with that. Elphaba saw depth and discontentment in him, yes: but (and I cannot stress this enough) when given the chance, he channeled that in the wrong direction. He didn't confront that and become a better person — for the most part he just displaced and projected it onto Elphaba as an object of obsession, and put on an even thicker pretense than before.

All his actions — regardless of the complexity he has deep down — are those of a man who never gives one fuck about anything or anyone, except (kinda sorta) Elphaba. But even then: at no time does the care he has for her seem to extend to caring about any of her wants or needs outside of sexual validation from him, or how she might feel about his actions, or indeed the impacts of those actions upon her, her cause, or anyone or anything else. I don't think it should be all that controversial to say: he doesn't think through the wider repercussions of anything he does — thoughtlessness is just one of his core character traits. He doesn't think ahead or see meaning in anything outside of what can temporarily excite him, in the moment. I think people place a little too much weight on Elphaba clocking him with regard to his internal pain, and seem to expect (understandably of course) that she is not only right, but moreover that he will grow from that in a positive direction, based on her influence.

But he doesn't. If anything, we get a surprising inverse: he pretty much proves her wrong. Not to say he didn't have hidden depth and all that, like she said: but his hypothetical heart of gold proves not to really amount to much in practice. He doesn't grow out of his shallowness and his self-centeredness: he grows into it in a way that he hadn't quite yet in school. Where once he was only masking an internal listlessness, after he's been cracked open by Elphaba he decides to be genuinely self-absorbed and deeply shallow, not just coasting by. He performs in new ways — as a soldier, eventually as a "fiancé", etc. — but by Act II we meet a Fiyero who has staked the last remaining shred of humanity in him on the vain pursuit of the only object of his desire that has ever been unavailable to him, and firmly chosen to say to hell with everyone and everything else.

When put to the test, Fiyero sacrifices Glinda, the Animals, and all else that Elphaba actually cared about, to pursue his own unresolved crush from college. Mostly to get in her pants, really — as harsh as I'm sure that sounds. But let me be frank: that is literally all he ever accomplishes in the show. He gives her dick one time, and one of his castles, and that's it. That's the culmination of his years trying to find her — years in which he actively worked as one of the stormtroopers (or even the one commanding them) committing untold crimes against Animalkind (who, again, it seems have been all but erased from Oz by Act II): y'know, the very crimes Elphaba sacrificed her life to try and stop????? He spent the most important time of his life — of his own free will — being a fascist soldier, but he "did it for her" somehow, so according to some, it's perfectly fine. Heroic, even. Yikes??

But let's make something very clear (since my original version of this post caught a lot of flak, including slurs and other rudeness):

I like Fiyero. I find his role extremely interesting (I could do a whole dissertation on him, but I'm especially a fan of the way his proving Elphaba's assessment of him wrong presents a fascinating parallel and contrast with Glinda, which I think is lost on a lot of people). But PLEASE stop with all the misguided Glinda slander and idealization of Fiyero. By all means, thirst! But don't give me all this bullshit about him deserving Elphaba more, or being super deep, or being really principled or noble or whatever else. He does have layers, and quite intriguing ones, but his insides are straw — he isn't meant to have some deep, overwrought emotional core or motivations; he has passions that he acts upon when given the chance. That's it. And that's fine. Actually kind of refreshing in a story rooted in simple children's fantasy but rife with intensely complicated personalities. Fiyero makes it his mission to represent denial of depth and embrace of raw, spontaneous desire — and I for one love that, and wish others appreciated it.

And in all seriousness, shipping wars aside: by the end of the story, it's Glinda who is ultimately vindicated, and has — for all her faults — made the necessary choices to fulfill Elphaba's wishes, bring down the regime, etc. And all that despite herself. She's miserable: not just because of the mistakes she made, but because of her correct moves as well. Fiyero is simply not — and could never be — that person. And that's okay! Like I said: I am not anti-Fiyero. Fiyero's willingness to throw it all away for the sake of sheer, overriding passion is a huge part of what people like about him, of course — and it's an obvious factor in the attraction between him and Elphaba, because she has her own flavor of that impulse as well — but I'd actually argue that it's not romantic, it's his fatal flaw. And thematically that's fantastic! But I just don't believe that it somehow means he "deserves Elphaba more" because he "gave up his life for her" or whatever. In part because NOBODY truly "deserves" Elphie tbh, not 100% (and I question anybody who claims otherwise), but ultimately because I don't accept the idea that his fleeting acts of passion make up for all the shit leading up to them (or even proceeding after them tbh). At least Glinda managed to do what Elphaba always wanted in the end — but I would die on this hill even if Gelphie didn't exist.

You don't have to agree with my analysis of Fiyero and his choices, relationships, etc. — that's fine. What isn't fine is trying to portray Glinda as some kind of spineless traitor whore for the Wizard and Fiyero as a conscientious hero who earned Elphie through self-sacrifice. That's just not the story that was written. It's WAY messier and more interesting than that.

[angelshipper]

saw your post about jpv in the tags and honestly. yeah the way bruce treats him makes me lose my mind. like DUDE. HELP HIM!!!

really i think why jpv doesn't go back to college and finish what he was doing is bc being batman long term during knightfall/knightquest/knightsend ruins his life (like, hallucinating st. dumas and his dead dad + calling himself nothing by the time bruce gets him out of the batsuit levels of life ruination) + he ends up homeless for an extended period of time.

i don't remember the issue off the top of my head, but i know there's a comic during dick's time as batman where some murder (or murders?? idk my memory's hazy lol) happens and he assumes it was azrael's doing because it's a similar M.O., and he visits him in the homeless shelter he's staying in, and jean-paul freaks out bc "you promised i'd be free" and that always made me sad when i think about it. :(

WHAT PLEASE TELL ME WHICH COMIC WHERE HE SEES DICK WAS BECAUSE THAT LEGITIMATELY MAKES ME FEEL SO MUCH WORSE FOR HIM

Honestly that makes a lot of sense why he doesn't go back to his old life.

Seriously in an earlier issue he was mentally so damaged, he didn't bother trying to escape a fire because he didn't think it was real :(( it was literally so sad seeing him just wrap himself with a blanket as the fire surrounded him and it just made me so much madder at Bruce bc he just didn't care about the bullshit he put Jean-Paul through. Like he knew JPV was mentally unstable and still gave him such a heavy burden because it's so obvious he saw JPV as more expendable than someone like Nightwing. Iirc his reasoning for not asking Dick, who was by far the best option for a replacement Batman, was how "Nightwing is his own person" like JPV wasnt???

[windvexer]

would it be considered bad to just work with deities because youd like to work with them for spellwork or w/e? i dont want to seem like im just using them bc id be giving offerings as payment but like idk if id be fucked up to start doing that

Considered bad by whom? Because in this case it seems like the opinion of the individual god is all that should matter.

I've had my fair share of experiences with gods and I feel confident in assuring you that if they don't like how you're treating them, they're more than capable of just not showing up or helping you.

The gods are many things, but so far yet I've never met a single one that was stupid.

(Please forgive me if I have over-read) It seems like the implication of your ask is, "would it be morally wrong of me to get away with something that could be construed as being a user? Because I know people do this and it works, but is it wrong?"

If people do this and it works, then I think the gods must be going along with it. How many posts or books or resources have you seen under the concept of, "here is how I trick gods into thinking I love and worship them so they help me with spells"? I have never seen a single one.

If paying a god to help in magic made the gods feel used, they can just not get involved. And we don't get to decide how they feel; they are not empty projections, they are not egrigores. They are living beings who have thoughts and emotions independent of humans.

Unless you're getting Solomonic with it and commanding gods to appear in a circle under threat of punishment, it should be understood that gods will appear to you of their own free will, that it's remarkably difficult to trick them (many people I'm sure believe they can't be tricked), and that they have the intelligence at least of a 10-year-old with a prankish sibling.

Now to actually answer your question!

I believe in any relationship with the gods, regardless of the intended dynamic, people can come off as users whether they mean to or not. I do not mean to speak to any individual's interpersonal relationship with a god. This is only a generic perspective.

Paying a god in exchange for help with spells isn't inherently using, just as treating a god as a beloved parent or spouse isn't inherently giving.

I believe any person is wise to always approach relationships with gods - even strictly business-like, professional relationships - with a sense of respect and honor.

I believe it is wise to strive to act with great respect, and always build your interactions around the honor and comfort of your divine guests and business-partners.

I believe it is also very wise for you to sit down and think about the boundaries you want to establish with gods.

It is my experience that when you begin calling gods into your life, they will answer and appear. And some of them might not want a business-partner relationship with you. Some of them might want you as a devotee, or want to be your tutelary spirit, or have a more intimate interpersonal relationship with you (it's not all that uncommon).

Therefore, before you venture into all of this, I think you are preparing to behave with respect and honor if you anticipate that these gods are living beings who may ask things of you that you do not want to participate in, and be able to politely but firmly say no.

Most of all, it's best to anticipate that these living beings may evolve and change over time, especially in their relationship to you as you call on them repeatedly, and be prepared to grow your practice to them, instead of pigeonholing them into the facets most useful to you.

But it's not like working with the gods as a business partner automatically makes you a user, any more than someone treating the god as a parent and constantly demands gifts, blames them for everything, and screams at them to unload their parental trauma is automatically a giver.

[excelsior9173]

something about sleep token’s posts about last nights show closing with “and now they rest” about the band themselves rather than sleep has me feeling all sorts of emotional this morning…

[starfox017]

So I have a lot of headcannons about Scar, and this totally checks out. Also, I am talking about Scar, the character Scar, this is not me saying anything about the CC himself. I am Neurodivergent. I am autistic and I have ADHD. I definetly see many autistic and neurodivergent traits in Scar (part of the reason why I relate to him so much). So him being Aro just checks out in my brain because one autistic trait (that even I have experienced heavily) is not being able to distinguish between platonic and romantic love, and not just in the case that you're unsure if a relationship you have with someone is romantic or platonic, but also you're actions may be platonic in your head, but other people could see it as heavily romantic

Scar probably thought of Grian as just a very good friend but in autistic brains the line between very good friend and partner can be extremely blurred (like, extremely blurred, it's crazy, sometimes it's even the same line) and i think this explain a lot of Scar's behavior, becuase he does behave very friendly with a lot of people, but maybe not as friendly as he does with Grian, but it might not be to the level of flirting idk, it all makes sense in my brain, I hope this makes sense to you guys, and feel free to agree or disagree with me, or provide your own theories.

I'll say it-

Scar being incredibly uninterested in finding his soulmate at all is aro coded

[midnightwind]

gonna stream of consciousness discuss Lucanis, Spite, their relationship, and the control they have over each other

This started as me wondering just how their communication works, because sometimes Spite chimes in with a thought or feeling from Lucanis that he doesn't voice. Yet the vast majority of their interactions are verbal on Lucanis' end. Spite also operates mostly on the basis of "if Lucanis or one of the party members doesn't explain something, then I won't be able to understand" which is one of the popular reasons for his many tantrums. So it seems like Spite can only comb through Lucanis' mind so well. Is it because they've been at odds for a year? Is it possible for them to reach a level of harmony where they can converse solely in the mental? Is there a point where Spite can sift through Lucanis' memories and knowledge without needing the man to audibly tell him anything?

I think Lucanis doesn't realize just how much he controls Spite's environment and abilities. When Spite asks for your help in Inner Demons and pulls you into their mind palace, he's locked out of the inner chamber. He can't get past the many guardians Lucanis has put up to reason and guilt himself into isolation. He needs Rook to make any progress towards his host. Lucanis wants to distance himself so much from Spite, he has recreated their prison and then locks Spite out into the farthest reaches of it.

Imagine being ripped from your home and shoved into another person, to go from a life of fluid freedom to a small vessel of unyielding flesh. Imagine that, at the very least, you are not alone in this agony. In the Ossuary, the real one, Spite and Lucanis always had each other. They hated everything about it. But they were never alone. They came to an understanding. They are as much kindred souls as they can be given their twisted creation. There is a comfort to be found in that.

Instead, Lucanis has trapped himself in the very room where they likely were forced together. Where Zara likely tortured him most. He picked the room holding the worst memories and the sharpest pain, and he forced Spite out of it. Lucanis has decided to hold a knife by the blade in a white knuckled grip and pushed away the one being who knows that pain intimately. And it feels like a betrayal. They experienced horrible things in that room, together. They survived the ordeals, together. They found reason to cling to themselves, the determination to live, together. And at the end, Lucanis chooses to be alone. Because it's easier to think he deserved it all if Spite isn't there to save him from himself again.

But they escaped the real prison! They're finally free. Spite can finally experience all the happier memories and thoughts Lucanis held onto, see the world he's now trapped in, because not once does Spite think to kill his host. Not once does Spite try to walk him off a cliff, use any number of sharp knives or vicious poisons a Crow carries, never tries to talk him into death. He wants out. He wants to be free, but he knows that it would come with a price. So instead, he settles for living. That's why he's furious at Lucanis for locking them both up in a pantry, for keeping himself tucked away from the others, for refusing to even acknowledge the torture he is subjecting them both to.

I can only imagine how infuriating it must be for Spite. He's thrust into the physical world where nothing makes sense to him. He's trapped in a man who would rather carry their prison with him forever than try to find a way to live, changed as he is. He's not even allowed to cling to the one bastion of comfort in this new, gently hellish existence because the would-be friend has locked him out. And to top it off, their new home is a bubble inside his home. Lucanis is staying in the Fade, and Spite isn't allowed to exist there. Imagine being in a cage where your home is just outside the cell. You can see it, smell it, hear it, but you can't even so much as poke a finger through the bars. I would have started biting people.

The two times we see Spite take over in the Lighthouse, he isn't reveling in this touch of home. He isn't seen trying to walk them into the welcoming abyss to drift forever in the Fade. He's trying to reach the Eluvian. People have theorized that Spite was trying to take Lucanis back to Treviso. To take him home, to his family, to get help. Spite wants out, but more than that, he wants Lucanis to start living. When Rook starts getting through to the assassin, when he starts opening up and engaging with the group, Spite lashes out less. He earnestly tries to talk with the party at times. He expresses more curiosity than animosity to them.

I can only imagine Spite's frustration as Lucanis insists on holding onto their prison given how much better things are with the Veilguard. How bitter it must be to have thrown himself at every door in the ghost of that cage for naught, just to watch Rook breeze through it. How gutting it must have felt to finally reach Lucanis and he's chosen the place that hurt them the most. And he has chosen to live in it alone.

I think Lucanis never truly realizes the extent to which Spite cares. The tragedy of their existence isn't solely a spirit trapped in a man, it's two kindred souls who experienced the worst, but always had each other. It's one rejecting the other despite the shared trauma. They should have been happier, more at peace, after the escape, but Spite was never allowed to properly leave because Lucanis dragged that place into them. He spent a year trying to survive hell, then left Spite thrashing at the walls of it. And he wonders why the demon is screaming.

[relaxxattack]

every time someone calls moirallegience just an alien qpr i wilt a lil like YEAH thats more or less the CLOSEST human thing but its also Literally Not That. like a qpr is fundanmentally not romantic and thats not even going into moirails whole Actual Purpose of calming ppl down. its just. aughhhhh pisses me off i see the confusion but, as aformentioned, aughhhhh

OH MY GOD THIS HAS BEEN BOTHERING ME TOO.... but i don't want to get petty at the people in my notes always saying "moirails are QPRs!" because in some ways that is the closest human thing so it's hard to be mad...

i think there's definitely some overlap in some ways. but NOT because moirallegiance and qprs are the same at all really, but INSTEAD because both relationships can be outside of popular human norms.

you know... like any relationship.

like the only reason the two really have overlap is because they are both committed emotional partnerships that aren't required to involve sex? that should be true for all romance, even if it's not the norm right now.

they're both just romances* that are unconventional to human norms, which makes people view them as the same thing when they're not.

i think the REAL issue here is that humans insist on using human words to understand things that are just, fundamentally, alien. can't we just appreciate alien romance for being... alien romance?

no, moirallegiance is not platonic, it's romantic. it's just romantic in a way you don't understand, is all. that doesn't invalidate that romance.

*in generalization, most QPRs are not romantic, because they are made up of aroaces who are life partners in a non-romantic way. however i want to disagree with you that none of them are romantic, because that is up to the partners in question.

[eri-pl]

I like to HC he didn't– wait. Lúthien did not plead for Beren's life. (or my memory is v wrong again) She pleaded to be allowed to say farewell to him. and then Námo got moved by her singing and he pleaded for them being let to live together. And no, I prefer to think he didn't know this beforehand. Because it makes a better story.

Did Tuor even get to live in Valinor? All we get is "I heard it in a song". But if he did,… I don't think that's something Námo would be blinded from. Why would he. "Ulmo's pet Man gets to be an Elf" is cool but not a big turning point of history (him having a son is more of a turning point tbh).

Gimli… TBH it would be just as funny if Námo knew and just waited for everyone's reactions. 🤣 Let the guy have some fun.

I think he would know at least some about Saruman. I suppose my rule for what Námo wuold not know is "he doesn't know when the world ends + whatever makes a better story if he doesn't know it beforehand + I like patterns"

Yes, he is explicitely supposed to keep this stuff to himself, unless Manwë tells him to pronounce a doom (and even then I assume he can't tell much).

[And yes, the dwarves… it would be funny if he didn't.]

PS: @i-am-death-and-i-am-doom I went to reply to your reblog too but then I realized it's much the same, so I'll merge the replies here.

As for the timelines, let me copy what I said in the comments, because I'm tired and don't want to rephrase:

Eru knows all beforehand, so it's not like Númenor was improvised. Námo could have known in theory. As for choices and free will, it's complicated. Generally the nature of time… TLDR of how I see Námo in relation to his own choices is that he sort of was given access to a true omniscience at some point before he want to Arda and made all his choices beforehand, so now he knows what happens and what he does, and to deviate from this choices would be evil. And yes, for a human it would be a terrible, torturous existence, but he's not human, it works for him. I suppose he does treasure the rare moments of nknown, but he is fine with knowing what he will do. That's how Námo works. And as for the choices of others, he knows them beforehand (except when not), but since he does not tell them, it doesn't negate their free will. I'm sorry I can't explain it better, it's just the nature of time… Námo is stuck into the time a little differently than all the other Valar&co. Or maybe much differently.

As for the events: Lúlu and Númenor, yes, I already said I like those being on the list. Earendil… IDK (btw he was judged by the Valar, there was no asking Eru involved; the Valar have a permission to deal with peredhel in whatever way they see fit)

Long-term dealings of Men… that's an interesting idea. TBH I don't have a good sense of how the non-Musicality (non-fully-Musicality, I'd say) exactly shows, and I'd love to have more of an idea of it. I do have an idea of what this ties to, a cloud of things taht are related… but that doesn't feel like enough.

Please tell me your HCs for "what does Námo not know (or had not known before it happenned)".

(concrete events/questions, not the general definition)

[starii-void]

something something jason piper parallel with jason medea

-both couples influenced into being somehpw by hera (both turn out. badly)

-both jasons die a horrible death

-piper and medea morally gray powerful sorceresses (w/ charmspeak according to HoO) x jason and jason the basic 'hero' archetype

-neither of the women truly wanted to be with the jason (dangit hera)

-tragic in general

[camellcat]

hii idk why but the thought of fresh-faced professional scully being so scared she burst into her new extremely flirty but otherwise dismissive partner's motel room in nothing but a bathrobe and undergarments asking him to check her for strange markings before collapsing into him when he laughed at her and said they're just mosquito bites. do you think it killed her? just a bit? just enough that he was It that she realized she could never ever do this again with anyone else and now that she'd done this with him that was it? and lord help her if she ever did it again with him, nevermind anyone else. mortifying introduction. what a way to start out her new career with the fbi

anyways. just thinking about how scully wishes to be perceived and who she really is

[what-is-it-to-be-pk-esque]

Ok I know I'm heavily biased here but like I kinda love that Astarion's romance is one of the few in this type of video game where you basically end up canonically unmarried and childfree in his "good" ending? Just travelling the world??

Like it's honestly the millennial dream lmfaoo cannot believe i chose what would undoubtedly be my favorite option, first try

[puppetmaster13u]

Imma do a thing. Because my brain decided it doesn't know which to choose (Play Minecraft or Work on Yet Another Au) so Imma combine them.

Imma play Zawa and based off of what I encounter is what animal characters are mixed with and this can go wrong in no way whatsoever :)

[deoidesign]

.

[quirkle2]

how would u guys feels about me selling stuff on inprnt? it likely wouldn't be fanart, it'd be original works—prolly mostly october eighteenth stuff. there might be fanart but i'm still deciding. any interest