#idk i have complicated feelings about izzy

[suffersinfandom]

I was never in danger of liking Izzy -- I'd figured he was abusive as early as S1E4 -- but he didn't really bother me until I started poking around the fandom in June and July of 2022.

I was floored when I learned that people love Izzy and think he's in the right. Izzy doesn't just remind me of abusive people I've known; things that he says and does are things that others have said and done to me. It's possible to make a list of Abusive Things Izzy Does. But here were these people who adored Izzy and insisted that he was the victim to Ed's out of control, angry monster.

It took me until October of 2023 to actually engage with the fandom because I didn't think it would be a safe place for me. Izzy is whatever -- that's a fake guy and I'm not taking a fake guy's actions personally -- but I was afraid of the people who love him. If Izzy is abusive in the same way that my abusers were, how can I be around people who think that kind of behavior is okay? Justified, even? And then you had the claims of abuse that Izzy fans were making against other fans -- abuse that I never saw, not even when I was looking at every post in the OFMD tag before I'd bothered blocking anyone. I was afraid that anything I said about Izzy, no matter how mild or based in canon, would get me labeled as an abuser.

So I didn't say anything for over a year. I regret missing out on so much just because I was afraid, and I do wonder how things would've shaken out if the whole Izzy subfandom hadn't happened.

Maybe I'd like Izzy. I didn't like the guy in S1, but his final confession to Ed made me warm up to the canon character a bit. It was abuse victim wish fulfillment; I loved it. I would've been over the moon after the last episode of S2 dropped if I hadn't been so worried about the backlash from some Izzy fans.

You know, I really wonder what my thoughts would be on Izzy if there wasn’t an entire subset of the fandom that was deluded that he’s actually the main character and is the victim in this entire thing, because you know what? My first couple watchthroughs I didn’t really care about him. I didn’t like him. But I was just kind of like “hey that’s an interesting character and he sucks and I wonder where they’re gonna go with him next season” and that was about it.

And then I learned about them and saw the kinds of takes they had on Ed and Izzy’s relationship and the gross take that Ed is abusive when we only ever see Ed responding to what other people, izzy included, do to him, not instigating and trying to hurt people.

And it wasn’t until then that I started to actually hate him, and the way people were making allowances for his behavior, behavior that is the same as behavior shown by the Badmintons and Stede’s father toward Stede, and the way the story was being twisted to make the poc the bad guy, when Izzy is very clearly an antagonist in s1.

I had even read the occasional steddyhands, if it was by an author I liked. And now I don’t want him anywhere near my boys. Not unless there’s some kind of textual acknowledgement of all the shit he pulled (and sorry, but even the deathbed apology in canon just wasn’t enough for me, though at least it was something).

But I just wonder, what would I think about him if I hadn’t seen people talking like Izzy was a victim and thought “well now that doesn’t seem right”. Cause I can tell you for sure that before all this, I didn’t give two shits about him either way and I hate that now I have to overcompensate for the apologists because of takes like that. like i get liking a villain. i actually fucking love Ricky and wish we had gotten more of him in s2. the difference is that I'm not over here talking about how poor Ricky was abandoned and lost his nose and his plan to destroy all pirates was swindled and how sad that is and how depressing that stede was a bitch to him. I'm just over here enjoying that he sucks and that i hope he gets what he deserves in s3 (because I'm fully deluded that s3 is still coming).

[jellybeanium124]

ok I gotta be real, I've hated a bit of analysis I've been seeing going around lately that's basically "izzy is not a full character in his own right because he's not a protagonist, and he only exists to further ed and stede's character development." basically, taking this guy and treating him as if he's a plot device. as if he's not real. the show is the relationship. stede and ed are the protagonists. but that doesn't mean they're the only real things in this universe.

because like, be honest guys. would you apply this line of thinking to any of the other major deuteragonists? does jim's plotline about coming out and being themself only exist to further/parallel/highlight stede's own journey into becoming his true self? does lucius only exist to be a son figure to stede? does lucius/pete only exist to be a parrellel to ed/stede and show off a healthier relationship at sea? does fang only exist to be a sort of older-brother figure to ed? does olu only exist to contrast stede's type of leadership with a more calm levelheadedness? does zheng only exist to contrast ed and stede as captains? does frenchie only exist to contrast ed?

no! I'm sorry, but I think all those arguments are dumb as shit. we all agree jim, olu, lucius, pete, frenchie, fang, zheng, and even all of the more minor deuteragonists, get to be people in their own right in the show. they don't just exist for stede and ed. they have their own internal lives, their own motivations. when stede and ed leave the room, they don't just turn off. why is izzy different?

yes, I know, izzy's central relationship in the show is with ed. I'm not saying izzy isn't involved in ed's character journey lmao, like, obviously, he is. meanwhile, jim and olu have each other, and zheng and archie, lucius and pete have each other (and to a certain extent, fang), and frenchie has a lot of other stuff going on. but even then, it feels so disingenuous to apply the line of thinking: "this character is not a protagonist so I don't have to treat them with the level of personhood of a protagonist" to just this one guy. it's hypocritical. it just feels like an angry, basic response to how the canyon treats him as a protagonist on the level of stede and ed.

izzy is a father figure, a jilted bride, a complicated nightmare. his relationship to ed is important, and his affect on ed is important too. like, obviously. I love canon edizzy. it's juicy as all fuck. but like, idk, treating izzy like he just zapped into the world one day, about 10 years before the show, with a duty from God to hurt ed for 10 years and then get a bit better and die, while none of the other side characters are treated like that's true, just feels like a major overcorrection from how the canyon treats him, and I don't like it. either everyone else in this universe is real and don't exist just for ed and stede, or no one else is real, and they're all just puppets for ed and stede to bounce off of. you don't get to just decide this 1 guy is special because you don't like him or whatever.

(this post is NOT for izzy apologists, canyonites, people who talk about "Ed stans" like they're a problem, and/or people who think ed abused izzy ✌️)

[horsetailcurlers2]

YET ANOTHER long and obnoxious stream of my thoughts while watching grey’s anatomy for the first time (season 14 because i’m still hanging on by a thread)

-why did megan hunt have a fresh coat of mascara and some lip gloss on when she got flown in with her gaping abdominal wound LMAO

-teddy!!!!!

-i absolutely think they should tell megan about meredith and riggs and let her make an informed decision on whether she wants meredith to be her surgeon. this is greys anatomy, of course there’s gonna be a conflict of interest. they’re making this more complicated than it needs to be.

-somebody tell me when the show stops being worth watching. so far i’m hanging on bc i’m mildly interested in how jo and alex turn out, i want teddy and amelia to interact, and i’ve warmed up to arizona since she broke up with callie. obvi i love meredith i just don’t know how much more they can do with her before i just want her to take a warm bath and retire to somewhere far far away with her children.

-did amelia relapse offscreen???? wtf is going on???

-okay she has a tumor i guess. sure, okay, whatever. !!!!

-she put a gun in her !!!!!!!!! for a man???

-i don’t love the way they’ve introduced the new intern class. they set it up as if we already know them, whereas i feel like with every other class of interns we’ve gotten eased into it a bit more before we’re just tossed into this unfamiliar dynamic

-okay but wait i do like that in this ep w the roller coaster (and the people who are supposed to be baby cristina, george and izzie) they referenced the old intro. i think the writers knew they needed a little nostalgia to hook people back in at this point. jury is still out whether or not it’s working on me.

-maybe i’m stupid but why in the fuck would they have so many important things dependent on one networked computer system. why on earth would cardiac monitors be hackable?????

-idk about maggie/jackson…. seems too incest adjacent

-the casual gaslighting and manipulation with paul stadler is so well written

-“jackson avery, you are such a disappointment, i thought you were woke!!!”

-genuine question: do they just not do chemistry reads on this show when they cast romantic interests???

-*choked up*”right before she died, she told me i should be more slutty. and i just wish i could call her and tell her how slutty i’m being” i really do love maggie

-maybe i missed it but why does carina have an italian accent but andrew doesn’t?

-i like the development of jo and meredith’s relationship

-i think meredith and this firefighter woman should kiss on the mouth

-i like april better now that she’s kind of a mess

-OOH wait does helm have a little crush on meredith bc i’m kind of obsessed with that

-if there’s one thing greys usually kills it with its casting younger versions of characters for flashbacks

-i miss joe the bartender :(

-oh my god he gives them fake cancer so he can charge them for fake chemo?????? what the fuck

-too much of an emphasis on these lesbian cookies…. suspicious

-okay yeah that makes sense. i love this

-nurse olivia!!

-olivia of course has a right to still be upset but it’s a little weird to assume alex didn’t change at all in the past ten years. not to mention it’s weird to act morally superior about it now when she cheated on george with alex

-“if you wanna rebuild you have to tear it down first” bingo

-did i miss amelia getting her own place or is she taking this girl to meredith’s house??

-okay i guess she’s just moved in with owen again. i need to pay better attention lol but so much keeps happening and it’s a lot of mush to sift through

-“meredith grey is straight” “ever hear her talk about cristina yang?” LMAO

-PREGNANT?

[sunnibits]

sorry but I’m just thinking again about modern au ed and izzy who have been together for ages (whether that be married or ‘complicated’ or fuckbuddies or just friends who are very clearly Weird but have somehow never kissed, they’re just together) who live in the same nondescript apartment and still wear their old worn t-shirts from that band they started together when they were younger and less tired, who steal each others clothes so much that neither of them really have separate wardrobes at this point. modern au izzy who always reminds ed to take his meds because he never fucking remembers and knows exactly how to massage ed’s bad knee to make it feel better, who knows all of ed’s needs and preferences better than his own. modern au ed and izzy celebrating hanukkah together,, idk man I just want to see them doing the most mundane domestic shit ok

[uselessheretic]

i feel like i see the thing relatively often where someone will say that ed's not actually that mentally ill, fans are just racist and also somehow this is izzy's fault because the only time he shows symptoms of mental illness is through izzy supposedly. even though in episode four alone we see him talk about suicide ideation, how discontent he is in life, and how burnt out he is.

but when people urge others to add an antiracist lens to their analysis and point out the historical racism within the psychiatric system it seems like?? they think that the only explanation is for ed to just be a lil depressed and that poc who are otherwise perfectly fine are constantly being slapped with extreme diagnoses. which, that is a thing that happens btw. people will call the cops on and forcefully institutionalize black folks who they have disagreements with and weaponize psychiatry against them.

that said, when talking about something like the uneven diagnosis distribution between poc and white people of schizophrenia (since that's something that's been researched) it's not that doctors are talking people who are otherwise perfectly mentally healthy and attributing their behavior to mental illness (although again it does happen.) usually though what people are referring to is how doctors are quick to diagnose poc with schizophrenia before doing their proper diligence and going over the other possibilities including histories of depression, trauma, and abuse. certain traits they exhibit are overemphasized and others minimized or ignored. a black person and white person may show the same exact symptoms, but the doctor will first have the white person tested for PTSD or BPD and try alternative treatment plans, while marking the black person off before considering other possibilities.

it's dangerous and disturbing where poc will be put through a series of medications that do not help, receive no treatment for the actual root of the problem, and then in the process often be criminalized as well since there is a much greater social stigma and forced state control over people diagnosed with schizophrenia.

i just feel like if you're gonna talk about ed and misdiagnosis through a racial lens, it'd be more accurate for him to immediately get diagnosed with something like schizophrenia without the doctor doing anything more to look into him. ignoring things like his history of child abuse and how trauma can cause certain responses. or for something he said metaphorically to be taken as literal where he might describe himself when angry as "the kraken" and the doctor marks that down as a sign of delusions. overemphasizing verbal expressions of angers as signs of violence. hearing ed say "it feels like my boss is out to get me" where he means that the boss keeps picking on him and it feels racially motivated, and the doctor puts on the record that he suffers from paranoia.

also just saying but there is actually a LOT out there you can read about māori mental health and the issues surrounding NZ's system. about 1 in 3 māori adults meet criteria for a mental disorder and this is a result of a racist health system, poverty, and, very importantly, colonialism. but like? i promise you don't need to create your own theories on how ed's identity interacts with mental health as if you're the first person to considered that. kaupapa māori mental health services are literal resources in place to address māori mental health needs within a cultural context. like! it's very cool actually for these things to be made available through hard community work that rejects colonialist psychiatric systems and instead utilizes a holistic and indigenous approach to wellness.

idk it's just so much more complicated than ignoring ed's very real mental illness and writing it off as no biggie. tbh it feels very um american centric as well to make assertions about relationships to mental health and race without ever acknowledging the specific community history here and that this isn't a new conversation. if you want to say you're examining ed through an anticolonialist framework then it would help if you did literally any work to find out what that looks like currently.

[bbyteach]

Kind of sad that a lot of the discourse seems to be ed vs. Izzy and who is who’s abuser. To me? They seem to be coded something like decades-old drinking buddies more than anything else. It’s a comparison I draw from being someone in recovery, anyway, but it rhymes with situations Ive heard over & over again in recovery spaces. That kind of sustained toxic, codependent relationship that blurs lines through healthy/abusive in a more mutually destructive lifestyle that just goes way too far. It can entail a wide spectrum of feelings: romantic love, familial love, resentment, disgust, respect, ect. Hurting each other in some fucked up cycle that repeats and gets worse over time until someone might end up dead. All of that.

Not to mention Ed has seemed to have a history of sinking deeper into his worst self & refuse to confront that he is not only capable of softness, but deserving of it. ‘I cant make it better but I can make it worse’ logic. And stede coming along to show him that it’s all possible before leaving and Ed coming back to this conclusion and embracing the nihilism of it all in tenfold. Of course he has free will and had a chance to embrace healing with Stedes leftover crew. But it crumbles with Izzy’s push to not be some soft ‘namby pamby in a silk gown pining for his boyfriend’ being a ‘fate worse than death’. Izzy buys into the toxic version of piracy as a badge of honor but possibly also sees it as a protective cloak. And that’s Ed’s family, for better or worse. Ed has also had to use the skill set of being a bloodthirsty pirate to protect his family & himself all his life. He has not had the privilege to see the power of tenderness actually work for him in his personal life or his work. Also therapy just does not exist in this universe. This is part of why the story being about some of the most bananas midlife crises imaginable.

Like this is a universe set in the crime world of piracy. Jim and Lucius becomes good friends even after they lock him in a chest bc he helps Jim get the knife. Zheng was probably going to have Olus family (Jim) killed before escaping and at the end they are all? Together maybe?? They all have a tumultuous relationship with Spanish Jackie. She tries to kill them and then accepts them over & over again. She poison trains them without their knowledge. They all try to kill and hurt each other several times. I’m willing to bet Ed & Izzy have done so a million times before until they just realize they’re both talented pirates and are better in this world as the Blackbeard persona. But they all come together in this world with hilarious muppet charms and accept each other as a community. A found family. of pirates! These are all ppl living outside like… all of the laws except their own pirate code. Idk! I guess I want to see more interesting discussions of the nuances of all of that. Like I personally would hope in season 3 we’d see more of a healthy amends process and confronting trauma more effectively when you’re able to be more yourself. This “old love” life DJ hinted at. & maybe everyone learning a healthier way to be in community with each other in the long term as well. I think that’d be fucking amazing actually?

Just. Idk all these interesting morally grey characters learning to be with each other and have found family to love and trust is just an infinitely more interesting than pointing out “x-person is x-persons” abuser bc I think it’s all wayyyy more complicated than that in this story and the world they all live in.

[ourflagmeansgayrights]

i don't get how you say you hate izzy and acknowledge him for being ed's abuser but still ship them together it doesn't make sense to me 😭 not hate or anything it just genuinely confuses me

lol i assume ur saying that i ship them together bc i have a blackhands tag which like, i tag the shit out of everything so just bc i have a ship tagged doesnt mean i ship it. the tag might just be for sorting purposes. the question of whether i ship blackhands is more complicated than just a yes or no, but also there are posts in that tag that are less about shipping and are more about rlly digging into what i (or other ppl) think the canon dynamic is between ed and izzy, including what i/we think their feelings are towards each other. and bc izzy having unrequited feelings for ed is part of his deal in s1, that sort of post will absolutely get tagged #blackhands

when it comes to shipping blackhands tho i definitely DO NOT think they should be together romantically and/or sexually. their dynamic is so deeply toxic and they bring out the worst in each other (izzy especially brings out the worst in ed bc like, the entire reason izzy was created as a character to exist in this show at all was to be an externalization of ed's worst fears and insecurities and thought patterns and harmful behaviors). ed and izzy fucking, or even worse, dating would be incredibly unhealthy for both of them.

that being SAID. because their relationship is so deeply fucked up it is fun for me to rotate them in my head on occasion. there is so much to chew on there and im intrigued enough to start chomping on from time to time (but im not into them enough to focus the majority of my energy on them, bc at the end of the day this is the Ed and Stede Show, yknow?). like to me the dynamic is that izzy wants ed to be this aggressive and violent caricature of masculinity and to dominate him and ed would only ever engage with that as a form of self-harm. if i were to write something for this (which i might, idk, i have a lot of stuff in my head but i rarely finish writing anything) it would be izzy topping from the bottom and thinking "this is blackbeard's true nature and only i can serve him like this" while ed is just like "this sucks so much. i hate everything that's happening. i deserve this."

anyway this fic by @chocolatepot is like the holy grail of what edizzy is to me. it is not a happy time for ed.

[icedteaandoldlace]

Putting together my own list ranking couples from The Flash, but my defining criteria for what exactly counts as a "couple from The Flash" is a bit complicated. Like, Carla and Thomas don't count, but Harrison and Tess do; the McCullochs don't count, but the DeVoes do; Ralph and Izzy don't count, but Bart and Avery do; Mirror Master and Top aren't relevant enough characters for their relationship to count, but Amunet Black and Booster Gold are; Killerstorm and E2 Westallen aren't counted because I think of them as just different flavors of Snowstorm and E1 Westallen, but Jay and Joan get their own entry separate from Henry and Nora. Don't ask why, I can't explain it, they just do. Also, I feel like Millie Foss and her boyfriend shouldn't count, but I kinda want to add Millie's dads to the list, but they're both in the exact same category so I don't know what to do about them? But none of them are even real people in the Flashverse, so maybe they should just stay off the list. Also, I'm doing canon couples only, but I feel like Hartley and Thawne are canon enough to go on the list? But Thawne and Iris aren't, so. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Anyways, I have 33 couples so far. Idk if I'm gonna call it complete now, or try to scrounge up enough couples to make it 35 or 40.

[unrely]

♡ (fuckin. Anyone, everyone. Im greedy)

o7 aye aye captain i'll give you my favs

Send ♡ to see what my muse thinks of yours

IZZY HANDS

●○○○○ | ATTRACTION she called him good girl one time. and I can see him being idly intrigued about the concept of brat-taming shawn. but mostly no rip ●●●●● | AFFECTION part of his crew. don't let the everything fool you he would die for shawn and be happy for it. ●●●○○ | INTEREST he would like to know. why shawn is Like That. would put under a microscope for observation if he could ●●●○○ | LOYALTY complicated. on the one hand, part of His Crew and also a Friend but also he will betray him lightly in terms of if shawn decides to do something stupid he will watch and potentially laugh as he crumbles under the failure of his own designs. rip ●●●○○ | TRUST -1 point for silly and making what izzy counts as stupid decisions. most of the time he will expect a prank if shawn asks something strange of him. but when it comes down to it, yes he trusts him.

VIN!

●●○○○ | ATTRACTION a little too young for him. they have some similar vibes (both psychic detectives, in some verses), both observant, both with a Silly Side, both loyal. i feel like. he could get attached to her emotionally and attraction could follow? ●●●●● | AFFECTION they don't know each other but I'm answering for what they could be okay. let them be silly detective besties. they could eat questionable foods together. shawn would make vin make slightly worse decisions in life and it think it'd be good for him skjdfjsk

●●●○○ | INTEREST seems like a fairly simple person to understand to him, but not in a bad way - actually in a good way. as if shawn understands exactly what he wants from life (though i somehow doubt that's true lol)

●●●●● | LOYALTY i don't think vin is capable of being disloyal tbh.

●●●●● | TRUST also expects to get pranked occasionally, but this is acceptable and doesn't make him trust shawn any less.

CROWLEY!

●●●●○ | ATTRACTION fun is hot! -1 point because idk if shawn can dom and crowley is 95% sub

●●●●● | AFFECTION silly little human. entertaining and sweet. will take a little while to get here but they could get here. 10/10

●○○○○ | INTEREST she would have to do something to catch his interest - he usually doesn't pay too much attention to humans. they die so fast!! it's like getting attached to hamsters once she has it, though, they will be friends.

●●●○○ | LOYALTY demons rebel. it's what they do. crowley has a tendency to end up with a soft spot for certain people, though.

●○○○○ | TRUST this isn't shawn, this is just the trauma

[lucindarobinsonvevo]

idk if im just saying stuff but i think perhaps the reason i vibe more with funbus than other eras of neighbours is that i just prefer that way of writing paul. like, in funbus, paul is a father first. whatever else he may be, his relationship with elle (and the twins but mostly with elle) is THEE most important relationship in his entire world. yes he loves izzy, and dylan but it’s elle that most of his concern lies. he actually parents her in meaningful ways, and i think if he had to choose, down to the wire in a life or death situation. he’d pick elle. 

i dont strictly think that’s true of other eras. i have feelings about paul and andrew that are far to complicated to expand on here (but if you’re a long time reader you already know how i feel) but one thing i’ve grown increasingly sour on, is how praise dominates every aspect of paul’s character in modern neighbours. to the point where he’s saying shit like ‘i couldnt live in this world if you weren’t in it’ like funbus paul would not say that, funbus paul would never put anyone above his kids like that. pauls top and most important relationships should always be his kids. not from a moral standpoint but from a writing standpoint i think that keeping his kids in the frame as the most important thing in his life is the only thing the ONLY thing that makes paul bearable long term. 

idkidkidk i just think funbus set the standard SO high for paul’s relationship with his kids. i NEED to get back there. 

[zackmartin]

I just want Zack and Max to meet so badly

[itsclydebitches]

Since you saw UA, can I have wierd ask? Given Allison Whispered her husband and her daughter and the went back to this mindset to make a public display of it for petty revenge while putting Ray in danger... I don't get how some people whine she's 'completely out or character' in S4? I fully get not liking her character regression (they set up her trauma well enough, but could've done more), but accusing show of bad writing leaves bad taste in my mouth. It's not exactly antis retoric, but the 'I don't like it so it's bad writing' is close enough to 'I don't like it so it's wrong and evil and illegal' that it just makes me really dislike it.

I’m not in-in the UA fandom—I see the occasional post on my dash and have watched each season once—so idk how much of this is actually "I don’t like it so it’s wrong" and how much is simply fans misremembering things, but I’ve got a feeling that a lot of it is probably the latter. Allison is an interesting character in that we're introduced to her at the start of a redemption arc (if we want to call it that) where we catch the tail end of a years long descent into bad behavior, but that quickly gives way to UA’s crazy plot and, as a result, her own improvement. Fans are used to seeing her as the Good one and that’s even a characterization that season three draws attention to, with her initial, heartfelt acceptance of Viktor and others like Diego essentially going, "Hey, weren’t you always the sweet and level-headed one? Haha since when do you want to start bar fights?" Combine that with it taking two years for season three to come out and it’s been a long time since most casual viewers—not those re-watching and/or frequently coming across GIF summaries on their dash—have seen the version of Allison that’s willing to Rumor her young child. Season three is absolutely a regression on her part, but it can feel like OOC behavior if you don’t remember (or remember well) where she started out. Some of the fandom are (correctly) going, “Of course she’s doing this. Allison has always had a problem with trying to control her life with her powers and the trauma of, well, everything, has made her grab at that horrific 'fix' again” whereas others simply go, “Why is the Good One suddenly trying to rape her brother?”

Because yeah, as a sidenote, I don’t think the extreme nature of Allison’s actions helped on-the-fence viewers consider her arc more carefully. I mean, UA as a whole is extreme—I do think it’s a complicated and possibly even useless discussion to try and figure out which sibling has done ‘the worst’ as a result of their trauma—but any time you give a character failings that feel personal to the audience, they're going to come out looking worse than someone who has just objectively done heinous, but otherwise personally removed things. Fans hate Snape more than Voldemort because a cruel teacher hits harder than someone trying to take over the whole world. Fans hate Izzy more than Ed because a homophobic jab hits harder than giving an order to skin and drown someone. Fans currently hate Allison more than Viktor because attempted rape + insults that deliberately target trauma hit harder than trying to destroy the world in season one. We respond most viscerally to those antagonists/villains whose actions we can personally relate to. By not just having Allison do Objectively Bad Things, but things that are personal to the other characters and therefore personal to the viewers who care about them, there’s a knee-jerk anger that can override the logic of, “How did Allison get here and how realistic is this response?”

I’m of the same mind that they set up her trauma really well. No, I don’t think any of that is bad writing. If fans don’t remember where Allison started out and/or aren’t willing to understand how a black woman being thrown into the civil rights movement/losing her husband/coming back to find her daughter no longer exists might be really fucking hard to deal with… that’s not the fault of the writers. Toss in the superpower to literal bend people to your will and I’d be crying bad writing if Allison HADN’T given in to that temptation. Unless you’re going for a paragon of virtue here—which, you know, is not in any way UA’s style lol—it would be totally unrealistic. So I’ve got no problem with any of that. However, what I do have a problem with is where Allison directed her grief. With the disclaimer that yeah, sure, grief isn’t always logical, it’s simply insane to me that they had her focus so hard on Harlan and Viktor when it’s clear to anyone thinking about it for a hot second that they are not responsible for this mess. (Not outside of Viktor’s long term consequences, anyway.) That thinking of, “You changed the timeline by killing our mothers, so that’s why my daughter is gone” is… so stupid?? Allison knows Harlan didn’t change things, they did. They were the catalyst by going to Reginald and unknowingly convincing him to adopt a different set of kids. Even if Harlan hadn’t killed their moms, what? Allison thinks a version of her that never grew up with the Umbrellas is going to be the exact same person? Marry the same man? Have sex on the exact same day? Give birth to the same child? And then she’ll do what exactly? Kill off the version of herself that already exists here so she can raise “her” child instead? It’s so stupid. And I was waiting for someone else to tell her it was stupid! If we’re really going to go with Allison being so grief-stricken she can’t think straight to that extent, at least have others try to get her to see sense. Instead, Five freaks out that Viktor told a lie and I’m like… really? That’s where we’re drawing the line in this family? Worse, you want to give a lecture about how powerful people shouldn’t make decisions alone? You, the founder of this entire, universe-manipulating organization who constantly tries to call all the shots, insulting the intelligence of anyone who dares voice an opinion? With the note that I adore Five: HA. That's hilarious.

Basically, I think there was great setup and… a lot of bad follow through. I would have much preferred Allison to just fixate on the briefcase in an attempt to go back and fix the timeline, not this weird Harlan-Viktor revenge plot (and I'm still not sure how I feel about season three's ending where, thus far, she's gotten everything she wanted). So no, it’s not bad writing to have Allison go off the deep end like she did, but the focus of that grief was pretty misplaced imo. And not in a “grief makes you crazy” way with everyone else acknowledging how misplaced it is. No, the family is happy to just sit there while Allison absolutely eviscerates Viktor and then they pressures him to make peace. Which he does. And it’s still thrown back in his face.

…I feel like this post makes it sound like I didn’t enjoy the season. I very much did! But this specific plot-line generated Big Feelings and not all of them were positive lol.

[sluglover666]

I kinda feel like the show did a poor job establishing that, if that’s what they were going for. Ed is shown abusing other people, people who are mistrustful of him, traumatised (although it’s shown in a comedic way) by their time with him, and trying to cope in unhealthy ways. He never properly apologises to them and that thread is just kinda left to hang because everyone has other things to worry about. In contrast, Izzy is shown to support other characters that Ed is hurting, and advising them with how to deal with their trauma. He’s definitely shown as a positive force in second season, while Ed is complicated. Having Izzy say he was the abuser in their relationship at the last moment just doesn’t do a good enough job in my opinion, especially since his manipulation of Ed was shown exclusively in the previous season. Maybe they would have handled it better if they had more time, idk.

I mean this genuinely if you still think Ed is a domestic abuser after season 2 episode 8 when Izzy basically looked directly at the camera and said "by the way I have been isolating manipulating and verbally abusing him the entire time and I got what I had coming" you're both stupid and racist there aren't any excuses anymore

[chuplayswithfire]

hello! i found your blog recently and have really enjoyed reading your meta - specifically re: your recent post about izzy and the comment that - "its to izzy’s credit that i dont think he gathered that this was what was occurring" as someone who has complicated feelings about izzy but ultimately enjoys him as a character (even though i'd hate him if i met him IRL), i spend a lot of time thinking about what i want out of izzy's storyline/character progression in future seasons. i think there's so much we don't know about him and so much that could be done, and i would love to see him have the opportunity to grow and change - and i think the way he got everything he thought he wanted and now everything is a fucking mess because of it has the opportunity to be a catalyst for that. this may be grasping at straws but at least based on that post, it doesn't seem like you think he's beyond the point of change i guess? (using "change" specifically since idk that "redemption" is the right word and i can't think of a better one.) i think in a show about found family and community care, i would love to see izzy have the opportunity to try to become better and maybe try to right the wrongs he's caused as much as is possible. i think the idea that someone who has caused harm has the opportunity to realize that harm and want to become better is an interesting storyline that the writers of ofmd could really do justice to. but i will grant that i'm maybe somewhat biased since i personally think he has potential and i just want him to become a better person, haha. basically, i'm sending this ask bc i appreciate your perspective and the meta you've already written, and i'm curious if you think this is possible for his character? if you do, what do you think that might look like? if not, what would you want to see the writers do with him instead? (anyway, i hope this ask is not a bother and you definitely don't have to take the time to answer it - i'd just be interested in your opinion if you wanted to!)

Firstly, thank you for reaching out! Your ask isn't a bother, though I won't lie I at first was a bit surprised to be receiving the question, but...

My thoughts on Izzy are complex, partly because if Izzy Hands were a real person i would want to run as far away from him as possible, given he's practically the human manifestation of sublimating your worst impulses onto other people, being overly possessive and entitled to another person, and also like, *super* invested in toxic masculinity and homophobia. He reminds me of the no fats no femmes type of guys I met when I worked at the Pride Center for my university.

But Izzy Hands is NOT a real person, he's a character, so I can engage with him in a way that feels more compassionate and kind than I would Izzy Hands if he were a real person. He's make believe, he's a part to play, he's a role within a wider narrative. And in that role and narrative, I do think that it's probable that Izzy will change for the better. I think this because OFMD has a pretty hopeful bent to it, a pretty reparative/restorative justice tinge rather than a punitive tinge to it, but mostly I think so because Ed and Stede are the main characters of this story, and I think it would do a lot for Ed's healing and journey for Izzy to grow enough to apologize and then get out of Ed's life.

I personally do not see a world where Izzy and Ed stay on the same ship and Ed is able to be emotionally safe, secure, happy and in love with Stede, just because all of those are kinda against Izzy's own interests, and as much as I do have some compassion for Izzy, OFMD asked me to love a LOT of white men lmao and Stede is the problematic white man who takes up all my bandwidth. I have nothing left for Izzy but an exasperation at how determined this man is to wreck Ed because he's too scared of change to give it a try.

tldr: I do think the show will write Izzy in a direction of positive change, because this would be beneficial to the narrative and especially to Ed's healing.

[cuubism]

something that is so so fun to me is that i hc both alc and izzy as greyromantic and i think it's actually pretty easy to read in canon. siblings that have a complex relationship with romantic attraction together win together ig

yeah for sure those can both be supported by canon. it's in the way alec seems pretty uncaring about relationships and dating prior to meeting magnus, and is totally perplexed why jace would be turning their lives upside down because of his attraction to clary. (though alec turns his own life upside down later on because of magnus hahaha). up to that point alec thought he had feelings for jace, which makes more sense if he had never had actual romantic feelings for someone before magnus - he had nothing to compare his feelings for jace to, so he was like 'strong platonic feelings must equal romantic feelings'. which feeds back into his annoyance about clary and confusion over jace's behavior, he's like 'sure i would do irrational things for jace because we've cared about eachother for years but how on earth does he have those feelings about this random girl.' then he meets magnus and he's like 'ah i understand. now it's my turn to go insane.' and he suddenly changes course completely from just staying closeted and achieving his career goals versus pursuing what he wants from a relationship. before it wasn't worth the risk. before, when it was just sex (maybe) that he was interested in, he could have probably managed that (secretly) while married to lydia and being hoti. not sure if it's in alec's character to do that, but it would have been possible. dating in secret is a lot harder.

alec before magnus versus alec suddenly faced with the violent unquenchable desire to give magnus a hug:

and izzy doesn't seem to hold her relationships particularly close in a romantic sense. like her relationship with meliorn is mostly physical, sure they like eachother well enough but they're not dating. i think raphael might be the first one (in the show) she had some romantic feelings for? esp. since she still wanted to be with him after sex was off the table - if she had no romantic feelings she'd probably have been like 'let's be friends.' (though their relationship was also complicated by addiction). (one could probably read some romantic attraction for clary as well? though the show doesn't go there). i'm trying to decide if i think she was attracted to simon initially - maybe, since she seemed pretty fascinated by him? i'm not sure. i think you could probably read izzy as demiromantic too - it seems to be physical for her first, and romantic interest comes later. idk. i don't have quite as good a read on her as alec as i haven't spent 3 years and 500 thousand words of fanfiction thinking about it 😂 alas

[cononeillbreastingboobily]

Okay, listen.

Idk why but this theory really tickles my pickle in particular today. Not only would it make the s2 finale that in the end simply made me sad work, it would actually explain so much about why the episode all in all simply felt off in some ways.

One of the things that happen within the last few minutes of ep7 is Stede's conversation with Izzy, the one where they both acknowledge they have feelings for Ed. He's a complicated man.

And then, this:

Look at Izzy showing genuine concern for Stede. They really have come far this season, haven't they?

S2 opening scene, anyone?

As an aside, I love this little shot of Izzy from the moment Stede is touching his sword to draw it to fight Zheng:

The concern in his eyes? Someone sedate me. Please.

Let's go right on ahead.

Izzy's speech in the finale.

In particular this bit here:

From the very beginning of the show Stede has been shown to be horribly lonely in his marriage, guilt-ridden and insecure. Misunderstood by Mary, beaten down by his father, his childhood bullies, and in his adulthood - the Badminton brothers.

He sees the spectre of Nigel flipping him off after killing him, he sees Mary and his father berating him in his feverish delirium. It's safe to say that guilt so strong, the elements of which you've been carrying about you your whole life won't just magically go away.

And that leads me to the fact that in the season 2 finale things were solved... Way too easily.

Op already mentioned the "babe" thing, and that's a big one. As well as Ed just happening to stumble upon the soldiers reading Stede's letter out loud.

Meanwhile, if everything in the finale has been Stede's dream, he and Ed last ended their relationship on a sour note - they separated, clearly at odds with what each of them wants in their life at the moment.

So, as far as we may know, if Stede got bonked over the head with a canon ball and is lying somewhere unconscious, Ed probably has no idea about that, at least not yet. But Izzy does. He's been showing concern for Stede consistently the entire evening.

I'd risk assuming that, despite Stede usually running away from big feelings, he did feel this kind of a growing kinship/mutual understanding with Izzy throughout the season. Now, knowing at least the gist of what Izzy and the crew went through under Blackbeard when Stede was gone, he might have added a new character to the roster of spectres that throw his guilt right back into his face - Izzy himself. That's why, despite it being supposedly such a cool moment for Stede, such a triumph that he came up with this whole plan in the finale and everyone got dressed in uniforms, and looked so cool, Izzy got killed. It's because Stede's shit at planning, and why did nobody stop him and question his idea, and why did he even open his mouth to share it in the first place, stupid, stupid, stupid....

You get it.

So, if we get a gravy basket Stede, then holy shit. What if he's also saved by mermen, not just one but two this time?

Stede is in the Gravy Basket, Izzy is Alive

The season 2 finale of Our Flag Means Death is odd.  It hits weird. I think I know why. And this is going to sound bananas, but give me a chance to explain.  Maybe you’ll agree.

It has a huge tonal shift. It seems to speedrun Stede and Ed’s romance. It feels like we’ve missed out on something from the end of episode 7.  The fight scenes and pirate plans are nonsensical, even for OFMD. And most egregiously, a prominent character is killed off in a way that feels disingenuous to his story arc, just for starters.

But I’m getting ahead of myself.  We need to go back to the beginning of season 2.  The season opens with Stede looking more piratey than ever. Beard, sash, earring… oh he’s his own fantasy of a real proper pirate.  He’s clashing swords with Izzy Hands and demanding to know where Ed is. He’s dreaming. In the dream he kills Izzy. He and Ed run into each other’s arms while screaming each other’s names. They crash into the surf. Ed says “I knew you’d find me, Babe.  I knew you’d find me, Love.” Stede keeps asking if they’re good. Ed dodges the question. Then Ed asked about the smell. Stede wakes up in a crowded room with farting and shushing roommates.

At first I thought the finale was supposed to be just a “satisfying” mirror to Stede’s dream. Stede and Ed call each other’s names and run into each other’s arms in a display that resembles a more grown up version of Stede’s dream fantasy. There’s some wild sword fighting not unlike Stede’s dream duel with Izzy. And Izzy dies.

It does mirror, but I didn’t find it satisfying. All of the characters except Stede feel flattened. Stede gets to make the heroic plan (that we never even hear) while there’s at least five pirates with better skill sets for it in the room. Ed, as Blackbeard, was described last season as “History’s greatest tactician”; Zheng Yi Sao conquered China; Jackie just took out a room full of British soldiers. Izzy and Auntie are right there. You could make arguments that Jim or Frenchie, or pretty much anyone could make a better plan. Then Stede says “It’s only suicide if we die,” which is horrible considering the plan gets Izzy killed.

Stede’s really the only person in that room who thinks Stede should be making the plans.  So I got to thinking, what if it's not just mirroring the dream? What if it is a dream? Last shot of episode 7 is an incoming cannonball. Maybe he’s unconscious.

Huge shout out to @Arty_Sunflowers on twitter (I’m not calling it X, fuck Musk) for pointing out that that isn’t the only episode that ends with a cannonball. Episode 2 ends with Jim swinging a cannonball down at Ed’s head.  Stede’s not just dreaming, he’s in the Gravy Basket!!!! (Stede even screams “Oh my God!” at the end of episode 7 in the same tone he screams “Oh my God, I don’t want to die.” in s1e9.

Stede’s hopes, dreams, and insecurities shape everything in the finale. And it helps explain the absurdities in the episode when you remember that Stede is living out pulp adventure and romance novels in his head. (He even looks like someone on the cover of one in his episode 1 dream.) But Stede can’t be dead, you say. He’s literally the main character. Well, Ed was dead for a whole episode. Let’s take a closer look.

I could and probably will do another essay on Lucius as a POV character and Ed’s mental health and how the threads they seemed to have dropped aren’t as dropped as they appear. But all of that hinges on me proving the Stede is in the Gravy Basket theory. So for this essay I’m focusing on that.

So for starters we’ve got the cannonball scenes. They’re eerily similar even if the method of cannonball propulsion is different. We don’t know Ed is dead and in the Gravy Basket for about half of episode 3. Neither does he. It makes logical sense you can be there without realizing it for a while. Buttons even said Ed didn’t know whether he was in the Gravy Basket or not in episode 4. It definitely messes with your reality.

One of Ed’s issues is self hate. He manifests Hornigold as his companion. Stede is desperate to be a good pirate and have people be proud of him. And he lives in his fantasies a lot.  So his dream shapes his experience. There’s a whole bit about Zheng needing “soft” and Auntie saying she’s proud of her. That isn’t their issue. It’s discordant with the show previously. But it is Stede’s issue. He’s manifesting.

When we first see Stede and Zheng in episode 8, they’re in a familiar spot for Stede, the bridge from episode 1. But why are they alone? When we last see Stede and Zheng in episode 7, several characters are within 5 to 10 feet of them. Did none of them decide to escape with Stede? Izzy, Lucius,  and Jim are closest. But we know Pete was there begging Stede to stay down during his fight with Zheng. Archie was definitely in the bar. That's why Jim entered the fight. So why is it only Stede and Zheng at the bridge? Because, going back to rescue others fits into Stede's hero fantasies. 

Zheng and Stede also argue about who pulled who to safety and how they got there. Stede waxes poetic about being a failure his whole life, but things always seem to work out for him. He’s such a main character mediocre white guy in this scene. He saves Zheng from two random soldiers, then she has to save him from them. Then they fight a bunch more soldiers on the beach until Blackbeard manifests in full leather from the ocean.  It looks cool. But it's absurd, even for OFMD.

Speaking of Ed, he begins the episode waxing poetic about nature and calling fishermen simple.  Those things are more Stede than Ed. Pop pop tells Ed, “You have no skills” which is something Izzy said to Stede in episode 5.  He also tells Ed, “If you were ever good at something, go do that, you bum.” If Stede’s insecurities could be distilled into one sentence, it would probably be that. (He also talks about being like a wave. I’m not 100% sure it's a The Good Place joke, but it would be thematically appropriate.)

Pop pop also tells Ed he “ruined dinner.”  Back in season 1, in Stede’s flashbacks to life with Mary and the kids, Stede thinks he’s ruined dinner. But remember, we also see another version of the scene where Stede is laughing with Mary and the kids.  Stede isn’t exactly a reliable narrator. Even in his own head.

Despite it being beyond unlikely, Ed finds soldiers reading one of Stede’s letters. I know physics in this show is sketchy, but this seems like a good time to point out no one found the red silk. Stede wants Ed to read a letter and for it to fix everything between them. The letter, plus Stede being in danger, make Ed swim out, find his leathers, and emerge from the sea with them on, while the music is the Swede’s solo from Stede’s fuckery in s1e6. Stede wants to be rescued by his handsome pirate in leather, again, just like a pulp adventure romance novel. Little chance of Ed swimming out and finding his kit.  Even less of him getting leather pants on under the water.

Back to the beach… for some reason two squads of soldiers are wandering around out on an empty beach. A visually incredible fight scene occurs. It honestly reminds me of Pete’s story in s1e2, including flips. Ed and Stede yell each other’s names exactly as in the dream. Like I’m pretty sure they used the same audio track. The same song (I Love My Baby, Nina Simone) starts playing. Ed says “I love you.” Stede says “I know.” (We’ll come back to the Han Solo joke in a minute.) They have a bit more absurd fighting then Ed, Stede, and Zheng sit on the beach complimenting each other. And Ed calls Stede “babe”.  He’s never done that outside of Stede’s dream and this moment. He’s called him mate a couple of times.  Babe is exclusively in Stede’s head.

Back in the Republic of Pirates, the crew are locked in a cell that is actually the “vista suite” at Spanish Jackie’s.  Izzy gets a heroic entrance. It’s as cool as Stede thinks Izzy is. And he gives a speech that sounds like what he probably told Stede to get him to relinquish the suit in episode 5. Piracy is about belonging to something. You can’t ignore the wishes of the crew.  Izzy also knows details about Captain Kidd and Pinocchio. Not impossible, but not exactly Izzy’s wheelhouse. It is Stede’s though. He’s obsessed with pirate tales and he read Pinocchio to the crew.

Stede, Ed, and Zheng show up just as Jackie has poisoned a bunch of soldiers. Stede makes a plan, despite everyone else being more qualified. Everyone disguises themselves as soldiers. Now we’ve seen the crew of the Revenge wear disguises. They never do the weird free styling they do here. Only Stede actually looks like a British officer. Zheng at least wears the disguise properly. Suddenly Ed has a multi gun bandolier like Blackbeard in the books. Pete ripped the arms off. Izzy is still wearing his vest. Doesn’t make sense if we’re going for stealth. Neither does not checking hostage Ricky for weapons or putting Izzy and his wooden leg at the front of the group.

If I'm right, Stede wouldn't know Ricky was behind the explosions. However,  Ricky is basically evil Stede. He's Stede's perfect foil. All of this is reflecting Stede's psyche. So, of course, it's Ricky.

Izzy gets shot and says quite a lot of nonsense in his death scene. “They love you, Ed.” Um, 3 of them were going to leave like five minutes ago. Ed has made some progress with the crew, but we’re not at “they love you Ed”.  The only person who thinks the crew loves Ed is Stede. Stede who weeps for Izzy while most of the crew aren’t showing much emotion. Stede can barely deal with his own big feelings. His fantasy doesn’t give the crew room to have them. Also, given the rest of the season, having Jim just let Ed be the person cradling Izzy doesn’t fit. The crew is also pretty stony at Izzy’s funeral.

I feel like it should be noted the last shot of Izzy in episode 7, he’s got one are around Jim and a hand on Lucius’s shoulder. He sat in Wee John’s lap in episode 6. Reactions to his death don’t make sense.

Also, Izzy’s terrible grave marker is very … Stede. He’d think it was a brilliant idea.

I didn't understand at first why Izzy had to die, even in Stede's dream world. Stede clearly likes him a lot better now. Why kill him? Well, it's because we're supposed to think Buttons is there to go to the Gravy Basket for Izzy. When actually he's already arrived in the Gravy Basket and he's there for Stede. Also, mentors die in pulp adventure novels. Stede sees Izzy as a mentor.

They go aboard the Revenge for Lucius and Pete’s wedding. It’s cute that the crew performs the ceremony, but I’d venture a guess that’s because Stede doesn’t know a captain should do it if it's legally binding. Stede does love the romance of it all.  The sudden uptick in monogamy is also very Stede. He barely understands monogamous relationships. Polyamory is beyond him.

Then Stede and Ed, who earlier told Zheng they’d help hunt Ricky, go back to the island where Izzy is buried to start an inn in a run down shack.  Stede knows Ed wants to do this because Ed told the (Taika’s) kids that they ran an inn.  We hear Ed ask “Jesus, what is that smell?” Now, at first, I thought Izzy, because Ed “knows the smell of my rotting first mate”. But what was the last thing to happen in Stede’s dream? A fart joke.

Last scene is Buttons landing on Izzy’s grave. To retrieve Izzy from the Gravy Basket? No, Izzy’s not dead. He’s with Jim and Lucius, probably watching over Stede’s corpse. Buttons is there to retrieve Stede.

This theory fixes the plot holes and dropped threads problem. We’re coming back to them next season. Ed's amends making should be far from over. And we see several moments during the season where he acknowledged that. And yet here on the island they've set up a horror movie and called it a happy ending.  Well, Stede is the type of boss who thinks things are fixed with a pizza (Calypso) party. In Stede's mind, this is a happy ending.  But really Ed is still off finding himself,  Stede is (temporarily) dead, and Izzy (who is not dead!) is probably guarding Stede's corpse.

They haven't resolved the domestic violence thread, but they haven't dropped it, either. Izzy is alive. Stede and Ed aren't together (yet). There's still time.

This also explains some of the freewheeling nonsense David Jenkins has been spouting in articles. Ed doesn’t see Izzy as a father figure and mentor, Stede does.  Stede almost turned to mush when Izzy approved of him. And David is writing a three volume adventure novel. Han Solo (Stede) is in carbonate (the Gravy Basket). The perfect end to the second act. See, I told you we’d get back to the Han Solo joke.

I still have problems with the season.  I really think they need a sensitivity reader. Even just implying a newly disabled character was fridged is certainly a choice. Especially given the amount of time devoted to how the character handled the disability. The DV scenes were brutal, as well as the suicide attempt, and the Human Puppet joke. I think they need someone trauma informed and disabled in the writer's room. (David Jenkins hit me up!)

Overall, I liked season 2. Especially once I realized Izzy wasn't dead. I'm looking forward to season 3, the conclusion of the Gentle Beard arc, and hopefully 6 seasons and a movie of Izzy (to be clear, he's not captain) and the kids sailing up and down the coast being gay and doing crimes, occasionally checking in with Stede and Ed.

Seriously, David, call me.

Historical Note: IRL Blackbeard died on November 22, 1718, killed in a naval battle off Ocracoke Island in North Carolina. IRL Stede Bonnet died December 10, 1718, hanged in Charles Town, South Carolina for piracy.  IRL Israel “Izzy” Hands survives piracy, death date unknown. I know this show doesn’t actually care about historical accuracy, but this lends a little support for my Ed died, then Stede died, and Izzy isn’t dead theory.