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kaorucup · 4 months ago

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speculating about the season 3 peepers villain arc

lately I've been thinking about season 3 again and I wanna cope with the fact it won't happen soon, so I want to talk about one of its concepts

(IT'S GONNA HAPPEN MAN, JUST WAIT UNTIL NEW PPG PROJECT AND THE NEW FOSTER'S HOME ARE ACTUALLY DONE)

something that's always piqued my interest was the mention of "peepers being tempted by the darker side" in official season 3 posts. (you know which, we've seen them all). it's not the only one there that interested me, but some concepts like the three new villains due for season 3 were actually deconfirmed by Craig himself in a Twitter q&a, and instead said it would be an existing character.

(I think. I'm not sure about that one)

see, things like that always change when everything is actually in production. I actually wanna make an entirely different post dedicated to the main antagonist and/or conflict because there's a lot of stuff to discuss there. but something that I truly think WILL make it into season 3 will be peepers' villain arc. I think there's a chance they could build off what's already in the show to lead up to this arc.

a quick recap of his attitude towards hater

in season 1, it's clear peepers tended to stay on hater's good side, since he still (somewhat) respected hater's actions in a way since he's been with him for so long + he only followed hater's goal of destroying wander and sylvia since they were their ONLY obstacle in their goal to rule the galaxy

I used this frame specifically because it's one of the only times he scolds hater in season 1 (maybe the only time, I forgot), and even then he's still scared to do so since hater even threatens him after this

and as we all know, by the end of season 1 and season 2 in general, he scolds hater A LOT more often because dominator's arrival spelled doom for the entire galaxy, even the villains. even before that, it was clear hater's obsession with wander was damaging the reputation of the empire, and hell other villains were even beating him on the leaderboard. by the greater hater, he's reduced to the 29th greatest. and now if you add hater's failure to initially properly focus on restoring his control over planets to putting his obsessions (wander in the beginning, dominator by the end) at priority equals one very pissed peepers.

in this particular frame, we all know this is a big moment in which peepers loses it and truly gets mad at hater for losing complete focus.

so when he finally locks in during the season finale it shocks peepers so much it moves him to literal tears. this man has been disappointed so much this season that this final move has made him truly happy. from my fair hatey to this episode, hater's ultimate goal is to save the galaxy to be able to conquer it again. so when that goal is accomplished he finally goes back to doing evil and attempts to conquer the secret final planet, peepers is literally so happy he has a heart eye. (not even close to being straight)

of course he's disappointed once more when hater begins to chase wander again.

"nothing ever changes."

2. peepers has greater plans for himself

"the universe will be mine!"

"if you ask me, I should be the one in charge."

I'm pretty sure I'm missing more moments where he shows an interest in becoming a great villain on his own. in general, it's made very clear that peepers is much more competent than hater. hell even evil sandwich has described him as a "smart guy who actually knows what evil is all about."

3. I FINALLY SPECULATE ABOUT THE VILLAIN ARC

So with all that background information out of the way, we reach the actual speculation.

these Tumblr posts by Frank Angones about season 3 are what got me to write this post. with this info in mind, I have a little scenario to share here

at the beginning of season 3, Hater would become a hero to the galaxy (following up from the ending to the end of the galaxy), and even though he tried conquering planets, he wound up either not conquering them or doing good deeds instead, to his own—and peepers'—dismay. again, taking the end of the galaxy's ending in mind, he clearly intended to conquer the new galaxy. however, it's clear he's definitely not as willing to do so and admits to peepers at one point that he tends to think about not being a bad guy. this of course breaks peepers' heart (yeah in that way too), and in a fit of rage leaves the empire.

he escapes to somewhere (idk where) and from there the antagonist(s) of season 3 either pick him up or kidnap him. from there they show peepers their ways and begin tempting him to join them.

from there more new scenarios can be made, depending on their motivation. Frank Angones has also stated that "there are worse fates than galactic destruction". in a future post about the season 3 antagonist(s), I'll explain more about what this could mean. since the post only says he could be tempted, we don't know if he would actually temporarily switch to their side.

if peepers joins an antagonist: he likely takes in their ideologies and hater (?) may have to remind him of his evil ways or something

if peepers declines: he realizes who he is to the hater empire and makes a move against the antagonist

secret options: the darker side is actually an actual villain (the antagonist(s) aren't "villains" like hater and dominator)

the scenarios are similar but I'll share them

if peepers joins them: he uses his knowledge and evil traits to the max to begin committing atrocities and stuff like that. hater and/or wander has to do something about it

if peepers declines: he realizes the villain is insane and goes back to hater (very, very, very small chance for a redemption, but maybe it will because wander can help him or something)

(I'm iffy on this one)

4. one final piece of speculation related to his backstory

when writing this post, I made two and two and found out something.

I don't tend to trust fandom wikis that much, but since the information seems to be accurate and aligns with what Frank is saying, I think all this implies the watchdogs mock peepers a LOT for being the shortest watchdog. what's also slightly implied is that his napoleon complex (in which he happens to be insecure about his height, which has been shown quite a bit in the series itself. "you are tall" being part of his motivational tapes, wander raises his soles to give him a sense of growth, the platform boots as a gift).

so if this is a big part of his origin story, I assume that way before he joined the hater empire with the other watchdogs, peepers was mocked for being the shortest. so when he and the watchdogs pledge allegiance to the empire, he "feels like he has something to prove", and begins from the bottom like most of the watchdogs until he's done so many evil things that hater notices him and promotes him to commander.

so now with that in mind, it makes sense why peepers would lose his mind over hater potentially giving up evil after pretty much devoting himself to evil for so long

once again, I yapped what I needed to yap and I'm satisfied

oh my god I spent like almost 3 hours researching and writing for this dear GROP

Edit: now that I think about it the way he said the line about the watchdogs feeling special and important in their interviews was actually kind of spiteful, which makes sense (poor guy wants to feel like that more often.....)

#wander over yonder #woy #woy commander peepers #woy watchdogs #watchdogs #lord hater #woy lord hater #commander peepers #woy theory #wander over yonder theory #wander over yonder season 3 #save woy #save wander over yonder #woy season 3 #wander over yonder season three

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orphiclovers · 3 months ago

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I've been wondering how 1863rd Han Sooyoung got the modifier of 'Director of the False Last Act' and I had a HORRIBLE thought.

So we know that Kim Dokja got his modifier after being killed as the 73rd demon king and that the nickname directly references this event/story (as theoretically all other constellation names do), AS WELL as being broadly true to his whole characterization (Someone who saves, but is a 'demon' - 'Kim Dokja's salvation was cruel. Like rescuing a drowning person with a blade, those saved by him were inflicted an unhealable wound' etc etc.)

The previous is ALSO related to the whole Star Stream concept of a Constellation's stories repeating again and again in an endless loop. ('The effects of the ⸢Stage Transformation⸥ were absolute. The history of defeat would only go on to create yet another history of defeat.' is a phrase that appears multiple times. Also, the whole of Gigantomachia arc. also also regression. this is a huge throughline in orv.)

So a Modifier has to be: 1. referencing one event. 2. true for the constellation broadly 3. a sort of 'reprise' of the first event has to happen.

The second point, being a 'Director of the False Last Act' is true for 1863rd Han Sooyoung in a very obvious way. She, 'the director', took her world to the 99th scenario, the 'last act', but planned to put it in permenant stasis, in that way making it 'false'.

BUT, at this point she already had this modifier, meaning this is a 'reprise' of a previous event that must have happened. And that lead me to thinking. What if she got it the exact same way Kim Dokja did?

As in, she was the 73rd demon king.

Similarities between Kim Dokja and 1863 Han Sooyoung are deliberately drawn: same white coat, same sword, both leaders of their similarly named companies, both constellations - they both went about the scenarios in a similar way and some of the same events and scenarios happened. (For example, Kaizenix, existed exclusively in 1863rd and 1864th rounds.)

And the modifier of 'Director of the False Last Act' fits perfectly with the 73rd demon king scenario.

Kim Dokja and Yoo Joonghyuk both individually get awful premonitions that one of them might have to die in the next scenario. And if even they got this vibe, Han Sooyoung with 'Predictive Plagiarism' definitely did too. Like Kim Dokja, she would have prepared her companions to fight the demon king, perhaps knowing she would become it. 'The Director' deciding how the story will go.

And the 73rd Demon King sceanario is a 'last act' of sorts. 'Defeat the Demon King, the final boss at the top of the castle' and escape the Seoul Dome. It is known as 'the end of the prologue' for a reason.

But she, of course, figured out a way to survive, to hack the system, as Kim Dokja did. Maybe said to her companions something along the lines of "I don't know why you're so serious. Have you forgotten who I am? I am Han Sooyoung. I won't die even when killed."

As a plagiarist writer who has escaped and found a way through all the tough scenarios up to this point. It was not 'the Last Act' where the leader sacrifices herself for her companions, despite that being the story she had constructed for the constellations.

Ergo, 'Director of the False Last Act.'

#orv #my posts #omniscient reader's viewpoint #orv spoilers #han sooyoung #han sooyoung 1863 #director of the false last act #orv meta #orv headcanon #73rd demon king #had to cut A LOT of stuff here for the sake of making the point clearer but I'll make another post probably #does this mean kdj could have gotten this modifier too? perhaps

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kaledya · 4 months ago

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Hello, Hello !

So I will use this message to answers all your questions and talk about more 'important' writing from the fanfic, like that, all is in the same area !

(Also before thank you for your kind words for my healing, I'm feeling almost normal !🌸)

So first, I read you others responses and saw that you haven't really ideas for the rest of your SSAU and you see it more of a concept and I respect it, its normal. SSAU have a different ending in his first season than the main show, so to be a bit lost in how you want to direct the story, when you are not used to write, can be overwhelming. Don't worry, I've got you !

• So, what are my plans after the Overlords Meeting ARC ?

So technically, I was waiting for you to make more storyboards, you know, because that was the plan to write what you are imagining but as I said, its okay if you don't, we will talk about it and found something.

For the plans we already established in another message this order of things :

- Overlords Meeting ARC - Vox VS Alastor - Valentino and Angel problem ARC - Constantine arrives at the hotel

Season 2

- Serenity, Lucifer arrives too. - Charlie goes to Heaven - Ruthlessness by Azrael.

That is the base I keep.

So in my mind, what I'm preparing (without spoiler but still comprehensible)

- Episode 5 : Overlords Meetings ARC (more lore with the gangs) + flashback + Vox VS Alastor confrontation but not a real fight with powers. Just a song battle. Serenity and Alastor interaction.

- Episode 6 : ACTION. Secondary plot focus, Lolicia phase 2 showcase and emotional triggers + Lolicia and Alastor past flashback + (Combat songs!)

The emotional triggers link to :

- Episode 7 : Angel and Val + New OC entering (link to secondary plot) + unlocking more past for Lolicia. Husk conforting Angel (new song)

For Angel and Val, you already made some doodles and drawing about how it would happened with Charlie poison tail, (showcasing for the first time the Royal Autority ability - teasing more and more Constantine arrival) and Val suffering for some time as a punition.

- BETWEEN episode 7 and last episode,

[Second Interlude with short stories maybe with others characters ?]

details (no orders) : we have the activities for the japanese summer festival preparations, RadioSnare organisation (explaining how to gain influence probably), Pentious getting more confortable with the group as there is a new guest arriving (new OC of episode 7), inviting the Overlords one by one for the festival (songs), the Vees (Vox and Velvette) to deal with, Lolicia is changing because of the event in episode 6.

Now, do you have little arcs/exemple/archetypes of sceneries or interactions you would like to see in season 1 ? Something you wished happened in the main show fo exemple ? I could include it here ! Some Huskerdust, Chaggie (relationship things are okay of course)

Lolicia changing/breaking (time to be a writer and make my readers cry) : - explaining about the showcase of power in episode 6 - her power is offensive (what will see in episode 6) and defensive (purple cords) - offensive power (big rewrite song of the Underworld by epic the musical)

[remember that Lolicia as a power that doesn't use souls and still slaps and Alastor wants to know why]

Constantine related things : - Constantine arrives because something worrying happened close to the hotel and he wants to protect Charlie and see her 'progress'. - Epic meeting between Constantine and Lolicia - Constantine see something in Lolicia and wants to decipher it (that is why he will be more "relax" with her than others guests at the hotel, introducing his ways of interaction in season 2)

- Last Episode, Then at the last episode of the season, the japanese summer festival made by everyone with the Overlords invited (yukatas, fireworks, and realising that the people of the hotel are finally having something close to a friendship.) Developing trust is the main thing of this season.

Before the end of season 1 : - Lolicia reason of death unlock

Because in the main show Season 1 : we know HOW characters died (bullet in the head, alcool poisoning, drug/coma, probably abuse...) Season 2 : we learn WHY characters died we will probably have the past of Pentious and why is he redeemed, what happened in his life, perhaps Alastor's mother and past serial killer crimes, the mafia family of Angel ect.

And I will use the same pattern in my ff. HOW in first season and WHY in the second season. I hope it make sense !

[We need the coronation of Constantine somewhere in season 2 or 3 like in your short because it was amazing !!]

So yes, that is my plan, and remember, if you want to say/add anything, you can. We are both gods here as you said (no idea is stupid and can only be worked on) 🌸

• So Lucifer position in AA/SSAU ?

I'm based on what you said about him. He is more prideful and more serious (still depressed). I think, as we talk about, the bad blood between him and Charlie will be more difficult to cure. But he is a fallen angel, that guy is power, more than Constantine who is his son and already impressive. But Lucifer let his son deal with matter of the kingdom and live a bit on his own.

(I heard what you said about wanting Constantine to be more angelic, blonde and human and surprising Demons when they met him because its a contrast. And I like it a lot ! I'm excited to see how you will change the design!)

For Lucifer, I think a chill part of him and an important aura must be around him like Azrael and Abaddon that we already saw. Perhaps the corruption is around him and not inside him so he looks like a dark archangel ? Shattering away and reconstructing always. A never ending circle of breaking and healing ?

Of course tell me what you think about it ! Because its a little bit different of your idea of Lucifer !

Like it could be the other way around, when he is "normal" Luci look dark, not mean, just what I said before and when he is "mad" or ready to fight there is something more holy/unholy impressive in his face/body ?

I don't know if it make sense. We can keep his obsession with ducks. He is also occupied with his humans followers/cultists.

Perhaps, because his idea of Hell didn't appeared as he wanted, (the circus thing), perhaps he is planning to create a new part in Hell ? A new ring ? And this project took all his attention (hyperfixation) and he will have interesting conversations with Abaddon (and others Archangels) leading to why this Hell is not based on military legions ect ? Just ideas !

• Where is Lilith in AA/SSAU ?

Good question! Again, I was waiting for your ideas but now let's talk about it.

Lilith is already a powerful character, a queen, someone who reigns on her husband heart without even being here. And in SSAU, creator of the Ars Goetia, mistress of the night and bird-like appearance, right?

But technically, what is she really ? A human trapped in eternity, corrupted by Abaddon insides.

We need weakness and things she can't have to make her relatable. Perhaps while searching for something she can't have, she met Roo (that we already saw we know she is clever and cruel) get trapped in a sunny cage (bird symbolism and day/night) and Roo found the possibility to do a metamorphosis of the queen herself and her plan to destroy the Morningstar Family (with Alastor focusing on Charlie).

Eve is the host of Roo so perhaps her own anger/fear about the fate of her own family (Adam, Cain, Abel, Seth and the unamed daughters) give power to Roo to indulge in chaos/destruction. And Roo is just a concept of corruption and not even realising that the host she despise and treat as a child (Eve) is actually the one that make her exist ?

She took Lilith down, something link to her plan and for that she also need that Alastor do something ? Tell me what you think !

So yes, Lilith is trapped.

Actually I think Constantine would try to do something to find his mother. Perhaps send a detective (an OC we could create?) (And we like Sherlock type of dynamics) to search for Lilith ? Could link the Hellaverse part more easily with the story (with your OCs) : the seven deadly sins and their children, Ars Goetia, the brothel with the succubuses, even Verdelet !

• What Abaddon thinks of the others true archangels ?

So my Abaddon is an special angel and a place/hell, so yes he is a bit different from the true archangels, his brothers and sisters. He loves them all overall but he doesn't have plenty of quality time. He is not in Heaven even if he can go freely there.

To have a metaphor, I don't know if you saw the Ghibli movie "Castle in the Sky" ? There is a robot soldier who is the guardian of the floating island Laputa. And he is alone because the other robots are just asleep or dead. And he takes care of little foxes who kind of lives on him and trees. He cares for them.

Abaddon is like this robot and the little foxes are his brothers and sisters. That is how he thinks of them.

- Azrael, they are very close and work together from times to times.

- Michael, they don't talk too much, Abaddon sees Michael like something mixt between a heros and a gladiator. In term of strategy planning, they actually get along quite well.

- Uriel, is actually his favorite sibling but he can't talk to her face-to-face cause she is the Sun of God and he is the Abyss, so their power hurt eachother. So they write to themselves letters each month.

- Gabriel, they would probably do shopping together and talk of wild subjects. It would be like listening to 2 ADHD people conversing with each other.

- Raphael, his duty is to tell to Abaddon what the hell is happening in the world, the big changes in humanity ect ect. So they see eachother each year for report. Abaddon mostly don't listen and just scultp his brother face because he thinks his face is very feminine and pretty. Raphael took it as an insult each time but still take the bust sculpture his brother carved for him back to his domain in Heaven.

- Jophiel, is like an annoying little sister. She is curious of her brother and wants to know him better. She chit-chat a lot and its overwhelming him. So Abaddon listen but not necessarily answer. He makes her dolls to make her understand he still cares.

- Lucifer, Abaddon knows Lucifer very well because he lives inside him, in Hell. He knows that Lucifer is depressed and doing his own thing. Most of the time he calls him Mael Still (for Samael). They are actually kind of alike in their personality, both inventors and they have a lot of interests in common. But for Lucifer its difficult to see his brother and just forget that he is imprisoned in him (and if Abaddon would have been in his side in the rebellion against Heaven, perhaps he would have win ?) That is what he thinks. So yes, they have things to work with to their relationship to be better!

I will answer Lolicia faq in another message because this is already too long ! 😭 Ahah but I'm curious to see what you think and ideas, its very interesting to talk about all of this !

Thanks to read it all and I hope I did answer well (because I can definitely loose myself)🌸

First of all, thank you for your understanding.

And seriously, you don't have to follow the plans I made or infos ı take etc, I prefer you to be free. I seriously think you are a creative person!

And yes, generating new ideas etc. by talking is a really good plan! Thank you

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(up to episode 7) I think the way you set up the episodes and events is really excellent Character development is happening slowly, events don't feel rushed It is very nice that we can delve into the history of Lolicia rather than just presenting it to us.

And yes, Angel's salvation is Charlie killing Valentino.Angel seriously deserves freedom after so many years

And it is very nice to mention the past of Alastor and Lolicia again, the threads come together as if weaving a carpet.

I can't wait to meet the new OC who will come in Valentino's arc, I'm already curious what kind of character they are

As I said until this part, I think everything is great.You've really made a very logical arrangement and it doesn't feel like it's a replacement for anything.

(Intermediate chapters after 7)

There is nothing I want to happen. Frankly, you have already written the events that should happen, there is nothing I can add🛐. Allowing breathing after story arcs. And it's really smart of you to think of sections that allow us to see the consequences of those important arcs.

And your choices are really great because these arcs both strengthen the story and introduce the characters better.And I think that stories always need sections where the reader can breathe.And that's exactly what you're giving them.

Regarding the relationships (huskerdust, Chaggie), I think these relationships can be improved by including them in arcs without a separate arc.

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LOLICIA'S CHANGING/BREAKING????!!!!

Wait WHAT?? What will you do to her NOOOOO!!

As a writer, I know it's fun to make OCs suffer, but since I'm a reader right now, I don't want to see lolicia suffer.(⁠ ⁠≧⁠Д⁠≦⁠)

And what will happen in Ep6??? I know we will see the past and there will be a combat song but what will happen that will affect lolicia so much!!?!!

Rewrite of Underworld????? What will happen? For God's sake and I have always wondered where Lolicia's powers come from, I can't wait to find out.But I think I will be sad rather than happy when I learn this information?What kind of tragic story is behind their powers?

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Constantine's reason for coming really made sense.Also, it makes sense why he is more interested in Lolicia. I'm seriously looking forward to the events after Constantine's arrival.

AND yes that encounter my god I seriously can't wait to see the dynamic and dialogue of these two!

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Japanese festival? It's seriously a great idea to end the season, we see the character development of the characters clearly and before moving on to the next season.And I think it's a really enjoyable arc to read.

The HOW and WHY dynamic is really very logical, it creates expectation and curiosity on the part of the reader, and it allows the character stories to be told in a more orderly and logical way.It was truly a great choice!

I'm really glad you liked my short, but it was something I made for fun for that song.I don't know how it will be transferred into the story because in order for Constantine to be crowned king, Lucifer must either stop being king or die💀

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Seriously, it was great to read your plan and I think you came up with a great plan, I don't have anything to add because it's already perfect!!

As a god, I take off my hat to you who are a god too 🎩

And thank you for your thoughts on the ideas, it really relieved me to hear that because I'm not very confident in my own ideas.But I still want to say that if something I said is not compatible with your story, you do not have to use it.And please feel free to tell me that I think criticism will improve me!

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Definitely, Lucifer is a little more proud and serious than in the series, he is an energetic guy, but he is a really tired man, someone who was left alone after the loss of his wife and his estrangement with his daughter.While one side of him constantly wants to make things right with Charlie, the other proud side is too stubborn to admit his mistake.

And yes, the situation with Charlie is too serious to be fixed with a song and a hug. They haven't seen each other properly for 7 years and the last time they had a serious fight they never met again.Their bond isn't broken, but it needs repairing, and it's not something that can't be fixed with a long conversation and a willingness to listen to Lucifer on Charlie.They just need some daddy and daughter time, time will tell the rest.

((Lucifer's relationship with Constantine is very different from his relationship with Charlie. Since Constantine was raised as a king, he and Lucifer had a love for each other when Con was young , but they are not close now.And although Lucifer knows he can make things right with Charlie, he knows he can't(or don't know how) do that with Constantine.

Lucifer and Constantine have a relationship similar to Shifu and Tai lung, although it is not a form of hatred.

(Con still loves his father, but there isn't much intimacy between them, and after Lucifer's fight with Charlie, Constantine also had an argument with him about his attitude towards Charlie. V And since then they have seen each other much less. The last time they met was after Con arrived at the hotel and told Lucifer to go and meet Charlie.)

Lucifer's desire to make Constantine strong was for his own good, and little Con was someone who would do anything to make his father proud.But the way Lilith and Lucifer raised Constantine kind of killed the child in him.

""Kill the boy and let the man be born, Jon Snow"))

Long story short, Lucifer is currently alone in his palace, so it can be considered normal for him to be depressed.

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THANK YOU!!! I can't say that I've changed him so much. In a way, he now wears his hair braided and open.And as an extra, I added an outfit with more dominant white+gold colors! + Golden scales make up under his eyes!

Here is The New ref sheet!

A circle that constantly breaks and then heals again as a reflection of the black archangel corruption of Lucifer is a really interesting idea.In a way, it summarizes The hell, a place that hosts new lives after death and die again, again and again until eternity.A death circle that can never be broken, created from Lucifer's mistake.

As an extra, this idea reminded me of Oroboros (I'm not sure if I spelled the name correctly.I think it was a snake eating its tail that described the endless cycle.

And I really like the idea of Lucifer being corrupted. There's still a fire burning brightly inside him, but it's slowly starting to fade away because there's no one around to feed the fire.

And Lucifer's idea of trying to create a new ring because hell is not what he wants is also very interesting. Maybe even if he cannot do this in reality, but in his palace he can create miniature architects like a LEGO.(Not exactly LEGO but you get the idea) He still has a love for ducks (maybe it's Lilith's memory,Or it has a special place in his heart because it is something he created.)

On the one hand, he is trying to create the utopia at home that he has never had but wants to have.After all, Lucifer was a dreamer Or who knows, this hobby was a distraction he used to escape his missing wife or problems with his children.

I really liked all your ideas, they all fit with Lucifer's character.

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Yes, Lilith is such a person in the story, and maybe Lucifer and Lilith may know about Roo's existence much earlier and try to prepare for this danger, but when will there be treat coming that they cannot see?

Regarding getting caught, Lilith may have finally found or encountered Roo, and after a conversation between them and a battle, Lilith may have lost.After all, Roo is evil and has become even stronger with the evil born over the past 10,000 years.

And Lilith is fighting with Eve here, maybe Lilith might feel guilty for what Eve went through, after all, Eve was once her younger sister. And this caused her to show a moment of weakness in battle.

I think of Roo as a kind of god. (Similar to those in Greek mythology) Roo only dies when she is forgotten or what she represents disappears.This is in a way impossible because what Lucifer did created evil and now evil has taken deep roots in the world.So I see Roo as a really difficult enemy to defeat.A kind of embodiment of evil

As for Eve's character, Eve is an intelligent woman, but she is filled with a lot of anger after being thrown out of Eden.The 'gift' that Lucifer gave her took a lot out of her, not only from her, but also caused a lot of damage to her loved ones.Their sons killed each other, all women in the next generation were cursed with the pain and risk of death brought by giving birth. Thousands of women suffered and.Eve was declared the scapegoat for all this pain

(I even thought of such a scene, but I don't know if it would fit the story.

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Luci: Eve, I can understand the hate, but can you please just listen to me for a second-

Eve: HAH! Do you understand my anger?YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND MY ANGER.

IMAGINE LUCIFER CHARLIE AND CONSTANTINE KILLING EACH OTHER, AND YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THAT. ALL YOU DO IS HOLD YOUR CHILD IN THE BLOOD.AND WATCHING THE FEAR IN YOUR OTHER CHILD' EYES AND THE CHILD TO RUN AWAY BEFORE YOU CAN SAY ANYTHING.Because he think that I hate him after what he did. Thousands of women and children suffered for that damn apple, Lucifer. While you were sitting in your palace and spending time with the family you built, I stood by these things.I have seen crimes that make me disgusted with humanity You're the one cursed for your so-called mistake but all you do is watch from your palace and I feel every sin.You can't understand me, Lucifer. (In this scene, between Eve and Roo's personalities, Eve is much more dominant.)

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So, she wanted to change things, take revenge, and Roo, realizing this, decided to use her.

In a way, the combination affects Roo eve's personality, and eve affects her , but on the other hand, they're separate existence and under that accumulated anger, eve is still a good person at heart, I guess she just needs a light.

(I think I can give Darth Vader as an example. In the end, no matter how corrupt he was, Luke was able to save Anakin again)

So, in a way, Roo is a corruption as you say.This is something that could happen to anyone. Eve's current state is corrupt. Eve still has her memories, she is still someone who cares about her children, but she is far from her old self.

For example, when we meet Roo/Eve Cain, it happens when Eve shows him the compassion of a mother.

For example, in Swap Au, Michael becomes corrupt after what he went through, and this is evident in terms of both personality and appearance.

And yes, it makes sense to take Lilith out of the picture in terms of Roo's plan. Because if Lilith was still there, she wouldn't let Charlie and Lucifer's relationship get worse.

And Constantine is also very affected by the loss of his mother. Lilith was the person who brought him and Lucifer together and made them spend time together. Also, Lilith was Constantine's role model and the only person who understood him, and after that loss, Constantine was left alone.

Lucifer lost the love of his life and his best friend and confidant, and was left alone in that huge palace with his past regrets.

So Eve Roo's plan worked really well. The Morningstar family is not whole right now.

And yes, then we have alastor. Roo is probably the main reason why Alastor came to the hotel. Probably to get closer to Charlie. But Alastor probably has plans to get rid of his chains.

---

And yes, Constantine is looking for his mother. Actually, I recently thought of an idea about this concept.Because a new OC and plan was needed for such a job!!

(If you think the idea is incompatible with the story, please tell me!)

After Lilith's loss, Constantine tries to search for his mother himself, but can find almost no clue. Whether Lilith left by her own decision or He does not know whether she is captured by a higher being than himself. ( Roo's existence is not known for certain, Lilith and Lucifer have not told him this yet.)

So after his own searches, Con knows that for such a search he needs to get information down to the smallest alleys, he needs to know even the smallest crumbs, but no matter how powerful he is, he know can't do this.

Not at the same time in all 7 rings, especially after his father left Royal duties and he was just starting to rule the kingdom.He tries to take time to look for his mother, but when he has just ascended the throne. He needs to show the demons how he will rule hell and also show his authority.

That's why he needs to go to someone who can provide information from every corner of hell and control even the whispers in the most alley.And the most suitable option for this task is the Clan of Whispers itself.A network of knowledge spread throughout the 7 rings of hell and a clan known for the accuracy of that knowledge and the trustworty of the clan.

That's why Constantine goes to meet Misfortune 7 months after his mother's disappearance.

(I'm thinking of writing their conversation here, but I'll summarize it for now)

No matter how much the Constsntine sees the Overlords as despicable Serenity is an exception, unlike the other lord, she is a lord who has become stronger with her silver tongue, intelligence and tactics, and has managed to spread her power to all the rings..While normally Overlords are limited to the pride ring, Serenity is someone who has access to all rings thanks to the hellhounds.

That's why Constantine already had a curiosity and interest in her.

Anyway, Constantine is meeting with Serenity. In the Serenity said that even if Lilith left by her own choice or was held back by someone greater than her,She says that in such a situation, finding a clue about Lilith may be almost impossible even with her resources, but she promise that she will do her best

Constantine then makes a small threat about what will happen to her clan if this information gets out of Serenity.

As a result, Constantine asks what he wants from Serenity. While Constantine was waiting for money, Power or something like that Serenity seeks protection. During her search for Lilith, she receives permanent protection when she manages to find Lilith.

The reason why Serenity wants this is that no matter how much other sinners or hell-born people stay away from her, she has no power of protection against nobles.But if she has the prince's protection, she no longer has to worry about her clan.(this is not a spell, just Constantine declaring immunity to Serenity and her Clan)

So, they make an agreement like this and while Constantine rules the kingdom, Serenity assigns her second most trusted man to this task.

You can change this idea if you want, it's all your decision✨

The reason why I chose Giovanni was that he was someone who could go to all the rings of hell and that he had a lot of resources as he was the 2nd most authorized member of the clan.He's a very clever and cunning person.

I also think it's a really great idea to discover the other rings through a detective character!! It was really nice to see the characters we knew from other circles.

Giovanni brings the information he has acquired every month to Serenity, and Serenity informs Constantine about the developments.

I liked this idea because I wanted to build a friendship between Serenity and Constantine, and once a month, Constantine visits Serenity and talks for a long time, and this lasts for 7 years. That's why they had already known each other for a long time before coming to Serenity Hotel.

(Normally, these visits are purely for business purposes, but mostly there is no new information, just some whispers. And after months and years, Constantine begins to enjoy these conversations, because There's rarely a time when he's away from royalty There are also a lot of hellhound puppies in the mansion. 5 years later, Constantine had a little talk with someone and played a little game with them.And from then on, the cubs did not leave him easily and whenever they saw the Consntine, they asked him to tell a story or show a spell.(After all, puppies don't know what hierarchy is, they probably don't even know who Constantine is)

Do you think this idea makes sense? If not, please tell me! You can change it as you wish or remove this idea, everything is ok for me!)

------

The metaphor you used is really cute. I really liked the way you saw Abaddon's siblings. Even though he cannot spend time with them all the time, sometimes just seeing that they are good and safe is enough for him

-I really liked his relationship with Michael. It's a kind of big brother and little brother relationship. I'm glad they are on good terms even if they don't talk much!

-Her relationship with Uriel is really sweet, it's too bad that even though they love each other, they can't spend time together because of the way they are created, but their correspondence is really sweet.

-Lmao Absolutely yes,seriously it would be so fun to listen to these two talk they could probably talk for hours about a topic they love. But the topic they talk about is completely different every 5 minutes

-Lmao his relationship with Raphel was really fun and it would be really fun to see someone as serious and strict as Raphael talking to someone more relaxed and playful like Abdaddon.

-She would definitely be someone who talked so much that he would swell the head becouse of Jophiel, she would probably be jumping around him constantly, asking his opinion on every subject or constantly trying to get to know him better. And it's so cute that even though Adaddon couldn't spend much time with Jophiel, he gave her a doll to show that he cared about her.

-You explained Abaddon's relationship with Lucifer very well. Even though they are similar, what happened in the past is what is causing these two brothers to be alienated and separated now.Is Lucifer still stuck in what if scenarios about the past?I hope their relationship can improve So they say there's nothing time can't heal.

I saw the article the you Answer questions about Lolicia!! Thank you in advance and I will reply to you as soon as possible!!

And seriously, thank you very much for answering all my questions and explaining the plan in detail. It was really nice to read what you wrote. I really love your ideas.And it was so much fun talking about these with you. I seriously loved all your ideas, there is not even one that I didn't like o. Also, seriously, everything is in perfect order and there is nothing I want to add!

Thank you again for taking the time to respond. And I'm sorry for this long message in advance.

Have a nice day!! 🫂🫂❤️❤️❤️

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel au #HazbinHotelSSAU #HazbinHotelConstantine #HazbinHotelSerenity

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genericpuff · 7 months ago

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How long do you plan making rekindled? I loved Lo at some point, But now I cant get enough of your version!! And I wanted to know how did you come up with the darker back stories for Rekindled?

I have a semi-detailed skeleton of the plot with basically every story beat planned out, but I can't definitively say how long it will be as I haven't actually scripted every single episode out yet.

Not to mention a lot of the time my scripts will change from their original versions, by the time I get to an episode I've planned ahead for I've either thought of new ways to do it or don't like how it's paced so I change it. Case in point, there was a specific scene I had planned for the next episode and then wound up not liking the pacing because it was too fast so I moved it to several episodes away and restructured everything on the fly, took a whole new text document and scrapping sketches to figure shit out LOL I actually do have up until Episode 70ish scripted out in my documents with like, actual notes and dialogue for each episode, but I already have sooo many of those crossed out now because of how much I've had to tweak and change as time has gone on. This is why I plan ahead well in advance though, so that if I do need to make those changes, I can make them long before the episodes are even due to be drawn (and believe me, they get changed during the sketching phases too LOL).

What I can confirm for certain is that the current 'arc' we're in right now is definitely the bulk of the story. And that's not to say there isn't any content afterwards, more like the pacing just gets completely turned on its head in the last 30-40% of it where shit gets N U T S and just can't go back to the same energy that it was in the beginning. Without spoiling, there's a certain 'turning point' in the plot and everything after it isn't quite as long as the stint of story we're in now. This is mostly because the arc we're currently in is still establishing a bunch of stuff like the Underworld Corp, Persephone's schooling, etc. and once that turning point hits, it's basically all character development and focusing on the consequences of everything setup in the first arc.

I guess if I had to illustrate it, the story progression in the end will look something like this?

It's basically just this slow and chill climb that, once it hits that sharp peak, doesn't ever return to normal levels LMAO So I guess enjoy this part of the story while you can because it's the chillest it'll ever be w(°ｏ°)w And boy, I am EXCITED for that peak, but we have a long way to go before we get there. As for how long, well, I'm hoping I'll be able to have Rekindled's story wrapped up in the next 2 years, tops. Just depends on how the update schedule goes, and assuming the plans I have put down for the plotting don't change in any major way. I don't have as much of the latter half of the story actually scripted out yet so for all I know it could wind up being way longer than anticipated, but right now I have a pretty good sense of how the story beats will play out in relation to each other.

So it's kind of a wait and see thing, at least until I have every episode scripted out, and even then I won't be 100% sure because things are always being tweaked and fixed and changed on the fly! I'm guessing it won't go much longer than 170 episodes, give or take, but that's a very very VERY rough estimate.

Regardless, Rekindled still has a lot more story to tell, and I'm hoping y'all enjoy the ride with me <3

As for the darker backstories, y'all don't even know yet. Like... I've got stuff planned. Stuff that even Banshriek (my BG assistant) doesn't know about. Stuff that I keep buried very deep in Rekindled's episode documents that won't see the light of day until they have to be ripped out of the deep dark trenches of the characters' own buried secrets, and by that point, the toothpaste will be out of the tube, there will be no going back. So, again... enjoy it while it lasts. Because I don't pull my punches. And maybe even you won't be able to look at me the same way again once the final blow has been dealt.

Sleep well.

#k but i am actually really nervous for how those bigger turning points go #esp the spiky one LOL #i feel like it'll definitely be uh. interesting. in how people feel about it.#but mostly because it'll just be a punch to the gut #i will definitely give adequate warning when it's coming so that people can steel themselves LOL #ask me anything #ama #anon ama #anon ask me anything #lore rekindled ama

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bobbydagen24 · 8 months ago

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Trolls overall has a Big problem with the idea of Holding people accountable for their actions.

here's a numbered list of examples of what I'm talking about.

Cloud Guy in the Tv shows not only because he Harasses Branch most of the time with no consequences but also because Poppy goes out of her way to defend him even when his actions cause trouble for many other people.

like when he flooded the village just out of spite because Branch wouldn't do what he wanted anymore and not to mention how even when she found out that he also Harassed other people from each of the Troll Tribes she still took his side and got mad at them when they stood up for themselves and "" upset Cloud Guy "".

which even if it hadn't been revealed that it was all an act by him just to mess with them it would still make Poppy look bad since she Refused to do anything about his Blatant Bullying yet got mad at his victims when they stood up for themselves.

and not to mention made excuses for why his behaviour wasn't so bad making out like he only Harassed them because he was trying to help them which is just all kinds of wrong.

2. a lesser example but still a bad example imo is in the Trollstopia episode where Dante uses Branch as his muse and he stalks him breaks into his home and disrupts his daily Jobs which he does.

and when he goes to Poppy for help she makes out like Dante's behaviour is reasonable and tells Branch to suck it up.

and after Branch does something to get Dante to back off Poppy then gets mad at him when Dante isn't able to come up with any music ideas like that's somehow Branch's problem?

Dante needed help but Rather than ask for it he just went ahead and took it by invading someone's privacy.

and breaching their trust and then Poppy made out like Branch was wrong for setting down Boundaries with him which is just iffy to be honest feels like this episode was written by Joe Goldberg or something lol.

3. and there's Creek as I've said in the past I love him lol but I do agree that his Return in TBGO could have been done better where he could have had a little arc of slowly earning back people's trust maybe over the span of a few episodes.

4. some people like to go on about the Bergens being forgiven too easily and I agree to an extent but given how Gristle Jr couldn't exactly punish the majority of the population I don't think they really had much choice in this matter.

I feel the only problem is them acting all chummy with the rest of the Bergens like letting them off for killing their species is one thing but acting like friends with them is a whole other like staying friends with Bridget and Gristle is fine given their history and the fact that they were too young to have eaten any Trolls prior to the escape.

but acting friendly with the rest of them feels a tad insensitive like in the opening of TBT we see Branch and Poppy acting all chummy with Random Bergens and Branch even High fives a couple of them and I was just thinking to myself

"" dude they probably ate someone's loved ones in the past how would you feel if you saw other Trolls giving Chef a friendly High five? ""

5. anyway moving on there's Barb who enslaved countless people destroyed their homes and tried to wipe out all other kinds of music and she was let off in the end.

its not even like she had a last minute change of heart she literally just got beaten and that's the only reason why her plan didn't succeed and afterwards she was just instantly forgiven.

6. Bro zone I've already talked about them in Depth in the past but yeah unreliable selfish insensitive and at worst cruel not to mention they never truly change their ways.

they keep on doing the same crappy behaviour and they don't show that much remorse for their past actions yet they still get forgiven in the end Despite everything.

because yaaaay family is amazing even if they Treat you like shit over and over again.

the films message feels like it was written by a toxic parent to please other toxic parents to be honest which judging by how this film won over general audiences I'd say it worked like a Treat lol.

so yeah Despite my love for it Trolls overall as a franchise has a serous problem with actually Holding people accountable for their crappy actions and Behaviours I feel the only exception is Veneer as even tho his turn at the end felt Rushed and out of nowhere imo.

I was pleasantly surprised that the movie didn't just let him off the Hook and he still got arrested and accepted the punishment for his crimes in the end.

I feel the same thing should have happened with Barb given everything she did.

anyway if you've made it to the end of my post thank you you have the patience of a saint lol anyway what do you think about this aspect of the franchise?

#trolls branch #trolls #dreamworks trolls #trolls brozone #trolls band together #branch trolls #trolls dreamworks #branch #brozone #trolls 3 #Trolls #Trolls Branch #Trolls Bro zone #Trolls Brozone #Trolls bro zone #trolls deeper analysis

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gayofthefae · 6 days ago

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Season 1 is Mike and El's love story because season 1 serves as a prequel:

Part of the thing with Mike and his romance with El is that he doesn't overtly seem to have a storyline outside of it. And that means that his primary character arc must be tied to and his demonstration in the final season of said character arc, which is confirmed for him is not complete yet, would be in his relationship with her.

But they got together in season 1. In the situation where he is straight and his character arc focus is to do with being with her...they started him with 0 need to grow in season. one.

If Mike were straight, the focus of his arc would be something he achieved in episode 8. of 42.

There isn't focus on them the way there is because they're the "main couple". There's focus on them because there's been nothing left for them to do as a couple since episode 8 of currently 34. (Their conflict serves a different purpose now).

In season 1, Mike would have needed to allow himself to see himself as deserving of El and be vulnerable enough to make a move. In episode 3, he worries she would judge him because of the bullying, but he overcomes that and does make a move.

If that's his arc....that's it. If that's his arc, then everything after that just repeated an already solved issue in order to solve it again. And I understand why people who think that hate it.

But when every other arc is written for 4-5 seasons...doesn't anyone find it odd that what they think Mike's is was only written for 1? The others prove that they clearly planned for being renewed so....what gives?

I'll tell you what gives. Someone having an arc that completes itself that quickly with so much left is not an arc, it's a set up. It isn't an arc. Season 1 of 5? That's still just exposition in the grand scheme of things. They didn't finish a story then fall off. They simple established a fact: Mike and El are together and they got together in this way. All important information to have for later. They were not telling a love story. They were establishing a fact.

And then what they did with that fact was tell a story: a boy in a straight relationship behaves in a way that he shouldn't and didn't before being with her. - to know that we need to see him before he's with her.

Season 1 is simple: meet Mike before El. They're dating now btw.

That isn't a love story. It's just information you'll need for later. Season 1 is just "information you'll need for later when we tell you a story based on it".

That's what it is for literally everybody in the show, actually! Think Lucas Sinclair. Season 1 serves to show him before he met Max, much more tense and easily stressed a person. In season 2 his story really STARTS. Season 1 is his "before". The same is true of establishing Nancy and Steve and the way they are still together in the end of season 1. Will is also not in season 1 at all but he is a MAJOR part of the story and lore.

So if season 1 is just their "before"...what does that mean for the love story fully contained to season 1 with no further romance, payoff, or get-together outside of it?

I've said before: literally all they had to do was interrupt them two seconds earlier and save the first kiss for the Snow Ball. But season 2 is part of the story, not the prequel, and them kissing was just to have them start dating as soon as possible so by the time we hit the story, we knew it to be true.

But I understand. If all of us were given prequels thinking they were stories, our perceptions of the book would be much different. It makes complete sense why the perception from people who watched in 2016 and people who binge it now are so different. 2024 bingers perceive it as a prequel. They know the happy ending isn't left there because the drop down menu has three more numbers in it. They understand that this is just information to work off of. They expect more of those two's love story but when they aren't given it they go "huh, guess that was just in the prequel".

Mike and El's relationship isn't a story. It's lore. It's backstory. There's just no way to convey that when releasing it chronologically (and calling it a prequel would be assuming/seeming to depend on a renewal and not have gotten picked up).

#the snow ball doesn't count as them getting together #couples aren't famous for their SECOND kiss (unless the feelings were unknown the first time...but they were known here)#elmike contrasts #elmike parallels #elmike pacing #that was an established couple having angst #it's the same as the season 4 separation in many ways because of them already kissing #byler #stranger things #stranger things pacing #pacing #anti milkvan

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tree-obsession · 6 months ago

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2.2 SPOILERS!! PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK

this is a small lore discussion! mostly speculation and theories- i have not seen leaks about 2.3 plot yet, but i have seen a couple about boothill's character stories, so please keep that in mind!

trigger for mentions of suicide(aventurine) and mega corps(the ipc)

we have to talk about the ending cutscene with aventurine and boothill more! i'll start with my fav parts that no one really has brought up yet:

Aventurine intimidating Boothill after mentioning the guards are out- Boothill sounded so offput and hasty while reassuring him they were just knocked out, and we have to talk about aventurine himself just being intimidating more honestly his glare actually did kind of scare me.

Boothill pointing a gun at aventurine was. well. i'm sorry i did actually laugh at that. boothill i think you should research your targets a bit more honestly that guy is NOT afraid of guns. he fully walked into the nihility and pointed at least one gun at himself, and just got out of his own meticulously-planned suicide. threats of death won't work, sorry. also he has good reason to hate oswaldo schneider as well- threats didn't even have to be used, probably! he would kill him too, probably(revenge arc go go go!!)

the convo between aven and jade was. yeah. why he's betting his life again, i don't know (maybe sarcasm? or it was really just banter?) but it does seem like the two of them aren't super close at all, at least from what little i could gather. also if diamond hurts aventurine the entire fandom will kick his ass, emanator or no, so he better be prepared for that too lol. also, it was a pretty common theory aventurine would leave the ipc after exiting nihility, since acheron presumably broke his ties- i wonder why he went back? perhaps he had no plans as to where to go, or he has some ulterior motive?

how did he get out of nihility so unscathed? (for context, i haven't gotten aven's text messages yet, but i'm aware of some of their contents since they've been floating around w/out spoiler tags. the messages are mentioned a bit here if you wanna avoid spoilering!) i know argenti got him out, but 1) why was argenti there, or where did he even find him? and 2) that seems so random- both argenti and jade confirmed it, but plot-wise what's even the point of argenti pulling him out? also argenti said he was in a "woeful state" when he got out, and apparently the stonehearts are willing to give aven a break (which i'm assuming is major, since stonehearts are super important and have a lot of responsibility, plus he just destroyed a cornerstone) so him already being back on his feet when we see the phone call is a bit weird right away. he doesn't even sound sick, and ratio or any other doctor is nowhere in sight! (message spoilers start here) i'm aware the aventurine cornerstone was fully shattered/destroyed while protecting him from nihility- was he really in there for who-knows-how-long without any protection at all? he's apparently having nightmares and the ipc needed to call in a doctor of chaos to treat him, which is concerning considering his mental health and general will to live were extremely low even before walking into the nihility. like he genuinely has some of the worst will to live i've ever seen in a character or human being- walking through the nihility should have utterly destroyed him mentally and physically, but it didn't. 2.3 HAS to give us a whole lotta context, especially with nihility lore (my favorite aeon, i may be biased) and more about the ipc!

anyway, thank you for reading this poorly formatted, stream-of-consciousness word vomit about 2.2's aventurine lore. hope you liked it! drop ur thoughts in replies and reblogs plz they give me life(although i will be very busy next few weeks, so please don't be offended if you want a reply and don't get it, im so sorry!)

2.2 was peak- a bit slow, but the story was some of the best, if not the best stuff hoyo has given us in terms of writing quality. so great! i cried for sure, and that boss battle was just everything- especially the music. robin my lesbian queen if i didn't have to pull for firefly i would get your lightcone for sure...

see you all next time! thx for sticking around (:

#hsr #honkai star rail #aventurine #hsr spoilers #hsr aventurine #boothill #in the first half #penacony has destroyed me and i let it #i would let it again too #aventurine is so precious to me i want to rotate his brain around like cow #and im a downbad lesbian for robin dear lord she's so perfect #chevy's voice is AMAZING and miss alice himora did an awesome job with the voice acting! haven't heard other languages yet sadly #penacony

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apostatehamster · 1 year ago

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Oh no! Another person's 2 cents on the OFMD finale situation!

Yes, because unfortunately my mind still hasn't settled and is in a state of disbelief over what happened, and I am trying to unravel all of this to make sense of it. Written from the perspective of a sad Izzy fan, so if you do not care to read about that or are simply tired of reading these mind pieces... well don't. And do not bother interacting.

I want to preface this by saying, I do believe Writers should be writing the story they think is right. It is impossible to please everyone so I prefer Author's sticking to their vision rather than bending to the loudest (in most cases, read: displeased) voices of the audience. However, I also think people are entitled to voice their displeasure over writing decisions in a constructive way. I don't condone hate towards authors, actors or anyone involved in the making of the show and if you feel angry enough to send hate or threats, take a walk and calm down instead of being a jerk. That being said, I watched many shows with decisions I did not agree on and few made me as angry & sad as this one, hence me trying to dismantle why.

False marketing, expectations and broken promises

Frankly I hadn't seen much advertising about the show before, most of it was fandom activity that praised the show as feelgood and comfort, with good queer representation. I got into it pretty late, so I can't tell what the show itself presented itself as, but to me it seemed like they fully embraced that image and encouraged the show to be perceived as such. It's a rom-com after all, many laughters and sappy feelings. A safe space-ship for outcasts, so to speak. We expected drama but also making-up and possibly more shenanigans. What we did not expect, was a rather prominently featured character dying as one got used to happening from other shows.

OFMD promised to be different, or at least that was my and many others' impression, and then it turned that around in the last 10 minutes of the finale. But more about that and tonal shifts later.

What baffled me most were the interviews hailing in at the start of season two. I've read articles about how season 2 was leaning into the Ed/Izzy/Stede triangle with David Jenkins saying these three "are on an arc together that’s pretty inseparable". I mean we had Izzy being called a jilted lover before, and in addition to Ed & Stede's love declaration, we also had Izzy declare he had love for Ed, and Ed as well saying He loved him, best he could. There was a lot of love, but it was complicated, and the article gave hope that this season would sort this out.

But after the finale, we got interviews that declared Izzy was a father/mentor figure to Ed, which is such a weird claim that is absolutely unfounded in the way the characters interacted with each other, as well as the fact that Izzy's death apparently was something planned from the beginning as an ending to his arc. And well, I find that death separates characters quite definitely.

I am not saying that Steddyhands was promised to us, gods no, but we were definitely given a chance at it happening, when in fact, the ending had already been written as the complete opposite.

Reception and cognitive dissonance

Every person is different and thus has different feelings and opinions. I've seen Izzy fans hating the finale obviously, I've seen Izzy fans who said they liked it. I've also seen people who weren't explicitly Izzy fans say, they did not like the finale, so really, opinions can go any way.

However what baffled me is Jenkins feeling he delivered a truly happy end. Personally, I've never watched a character die and thought "This makes me happy." I especially would never describe a character struggling through hardship, just to ultimately die as happy or beautiful. I can only imagine that the focus was on Ed and Stede, when a happy ending was mentioned, but Jenkins kept pointing out in the interviews, how Izzy was his favorite, which gave hope for a happy ending for Izzy as well. As much as I enjoy seeing my favorites go through hardships, I also prefer to keep them around by not dying. I especially do not build my favorite up to be a well fleshed out character with growth, just to reduce them back to a plot device for the main character.

I know this is all based upon the interviews, and less on the show, but when I read "And what's the most interesting thing we can do with Con[...]?" my answer definitely wouldn't have been "kill his character off". Con O'Neill does a great job at playing emotional scenes, but we already had him act his heart out in the first three episodes. A last hurrah wasn't needed.

I am also trying to put myself in David Jenkins' shoes here, because I think he truly expected the last episode to be a happy ending, and a gift, just to be proven differently. I just wonder what went wrong, how one can read the room so completely wrong.

It wasn't malicious, but the fact that it was apparently meant to be a genuine attempt at offering a happy end makes it even worse.

Tonal shifts and established in-Show laws

It's an understatement to say that the tone of season 2 was decidedly more dramatic. To the point where I questioned myself if this was still allowed to be called a comedy show. I would have described season 1 as mostly slice-of-life, little adventures between the crew and the captains. People got hanged, fingers severed, people got stabbed, but you never felt the threat of actual death hanging over anyone's head, because everything was kept humorous. (Speaking of the non-baddies here. Calico Jack got a cannon ball to the head but with plausible deniability of his death & (apparently) an interview saying he could be brought back, if needed)

Enter season 2, which starts off with murder attempts, major wounds and a suicide attempt. Nothing was played off as a joke, and for that I am grateful because that would have been in poor taste, but the tone was noticeably different and darker. But it still wasn't 'realistic' by any standard. With no real doctor on board, Izzy should have died from his wounds and comatose Edward would have wasted away in the hidden cabin. Everyone came out (fucked up but) relatively fine.

The show goes back to the humorous tone with Anne & Mary who enjoy a good backstabbing and poisoning. We had our crew surrounded by death and a curse in the next episode, but there was any fear of them coming to harm, obviously. The crew gets boarded and tortured by Ned and his crew after that, but they are able to take it out and come away unscathed (some wounds aside). Oh no! Stede challenges Zheng Yi to a duel! Which we know means no one is allowed to interfere, until one of the duelants dies. But it's fine, Zheng Yi is just playing with her food. But watch out, a Cannonball flies towards Zheng Yi's head! Ah but she is fine, she escaped. The Swede pulled a Rasputin and got immune to poison without him even noticing! Look, even Auntie survived the explosion, badly wounded but she lives. Oh no! Izzy gets shot! But it's his left side, we established no vital organs are there. Roach and Stede are already on their way to get bandage- Wait they are back with no bandages, and Izzy he-

Oh, wait. He...died?

When watching season 2 I legitimately considered Izzy dying as an end result, because I am used to my favorite characters dying, frankly. But then I dismissed that thought because OFMD has proven again and again, that people do not die. Heck, Lucius was considered dead in the season 1 finale and he came back, albeit traumatized. But he lived to tell the tale.

Season 2 finale made it a point to leave no room for doubt that Izzy did indeed die. They dug him a grave, and they panned to his grave at the end to remind you, he is definitely dead. So, why did Izzy have to die in a world where our favorites can survive about anything? "Pirates die, that's just pirate life", okay but why was he specifically singled out to be the only pirate dying? In comparison to everyone else, it feels unjust, and it feels cruel towards the fans who felt safe in the knowledge that this was the one show where none of their favorites would die. And it feels like such a betrayal of the fans’ trust, who had hoped this show would do better.

I've seen a take along the lines of "Nowadays people expect the stories to be written explicitly for them, and then they get upset when it doesn't happen" and that take pissed me off enough to write this down. This isn't a case of entitled fans asking to change the story to be exactly what they want to be, there is fanfiction for that. No, this is fans upset that their favorite character got singled out by the narrative to be the one exception to the no dying rule. And I use the narrative loosely, because there was no ramification to the death that couldn't also have been established by the character staying alive and giving advice, so the death didn't even feel purposeful. And for a show that always stresses the "Talk it through as a crew" point, they did not care much for choosing talking it through as a solution.

I also heartily disagree that Izzy's arc was over and had no more stories to tell. I mean the guy followed Edward around for decades, I would have loved to hear more about their past.

I would have especially loved to hear more about their future, as two people who learned to let go of Blackbeard and became their own people again. Where exactly did the idea of that even come from, I don't know.

Pacing and Confusing decisions in the Final episode and the build-up into nothing

(Rambling alert!)

Personally I didn't feel any pacing issues until episode 6. While I generally liked the episode, it felt crammed with both set-up of the baddie, fun-times, then appearance of baddie (and disappearance) and return to fun-times. The episode ended and I was literally perplexed that it was over, like we basically ran through that episode. But episode 8 took the cake.

Now I am well aware they had to cut corners, and the strike didn't make it easier either, and I wish we could have seen the result without these factors. But we got what we got now, and I have to judge based upon that, but I really would know how the final cut decision came to be.

I did like the beginning with Ed chilling as a fisherman, but in hindsight I wished they had cut that part a bit shorter to give more room for the final parts. We get a lot of Ricky dicking around the pirate republic, showing Jackie reluctantly bringing them drinks. Later on she finally decides to poison him. Why she didn't do so earlier, I have no idea, unless the show is trying to tell me The Swede had to build up enough poison tolerance within one episode to withstand the poison attempt, which would be ridiculous. Why the Swede was held as an emotional hostage, I don't know either. I don't want him dead but Jackie has many other husbands, the Swede being singled out was more to hurt the viewers than for Jackie imho.

We have Zheng Yi suffering through Stede's presence. Our queen is suffering through the loss of her whole crew and her aunt, while Stede unsympathetically offers that being a failure gets easier. I expected more compassion from a guy who treasures his own crew and also enjoyed the hospitality of Zheng Yi's ship, but okay. Being a dick for the sake of comedy, I suppose. "Thing's have a way of working out. At least for me" And Zheng Yi proves Stede right by killing the soldiers, and Stede claims that went just as planned. I am not sure what happened to the Stede who successfully avoided being backstabbed in episode 5 and defended his crew in episode 6 and actually seemed competent, just to go back to an ignorant fool, but hm.

Fisherman Ed returns, thinks Stede in danger, and recovers his leathers that somehow are still in the same place, after mindlessly killing everyone in his way. Whatever happened to not wanting to be a monster and not killing and running away from that, it doesn't matter anymore. The flashback of pop-pop tells him he needs to go back to what he is good at, and I guess... this is it??? The Kraken rises from the sea again. Will there be consequences for Ed's emotional state after that? Well, no. Not really. Or not in this season anyway.

Okay Ricky invites Izzy to a drink, he's quite obviously a Izzy fanboy. For what reason he took him out of prison, I don't know. He later says "Sad, I wanted to let you live", implying he had plans for Izzy. What those plans were, we will never know, Ricky never tells us. Izzy talks about what piracy means to him. "It's not about getting what you want" and I don't know if he means pirates generally robbing ships to get treasure, or of himself being perceived as a mastermind or being a captain, because he never inclined he wanted either. So, what a weird thing for him to say. "It's about belonging to something when the world has told you, you're nothing" is a beautiful line that makes me wish we had gotten at least some backstory to Izzy. Then we're shown a picture of the crew from season 1.... with Izzy in the background, quite obviously not belonging (yet). What an odd choice to cut into. You could have used something from season 2 that showed him actually belonging

Ed finds one of Stede's love letters, it's cute, but I am not sure why we needed that to somehow reinforce that Ed loves him. We already saw him worry for Stede and literally revert to his Blackbeard persona to set out and save him. He also didn't leave because he didn't love Stede or doubted Stede's love for Ed, but because he needed to find himself first to make it work. It's not a long scene but it took a bit of the momentum of the Kraken rising from the water from me.

Ed and Stede see each other again and we have a callback to the episode one opener. Which was also the moment where I slowly realized, death was in the cards for Izzy because that dream sequence meant his death. But no, this is OFMD, it'll be fine...

We're back in the cell, and our mates are trying to escape. Auntie is there! Very much alive, despite having been on an exploding ship. Who brought her there?? When was she brought there?? How long has she been there and why did no one bother to check the cloaked figure in the corner? NEVERMIND, Auntie is here and alive I suppose. Bleeding out and we've got no supplies to treat her, but she will walk it off just fine.

Captain trio congratulate themselves on beating a bunch of soldiers. Honestly impressive, outnumbered as they were. Mh, maybe they should get back to the crew tho...?

Auntie realizing she was harsh on Zheng Yi and admitting maybe she needs a different approach. I am seeing a parallel to Izzy later admitting his approach was wrong too. Except (and excuse the bitterness) Auntie gets to continue to "mentor" Zheng Yi.

We get a weird hard cut from "I don't do soft" to the talk between Izzy and Ricky. I really thought the talk had been talked, but some more insults get thrown at Ricky, and the deus ex machina happens as all prisoners are freed from prison, the captain trio arrives and all soldiers die of poisoning. Personally this was the moment where I had to slow blink in disbelief, because everything was happening so fast.

Stede talks about how they need a plan, and how a royal hostage could prove valuable. Another hard cut "SO, that's the plan". We do not hear the plan. We just gather from the following montage that it has to do with dressing up as English soldiers. We get a montage of everyone preparing for battle and dressing up, looking cool in slow motion. And, they did look hella cool, but there was so much buildup for them dressing up for the plan...without knowing what the plan even IS.

And then the plan apparently is.... just Izzy holding Ricky hostage? And the rest waits around and sees how it plays out? And they're just trusting Ricky to go along with their plan and say what they want him to say? Why was Izzy the one who had to hold Ricky hostage? The one person with a visible wooden leg? Not sure if peg-legs are an established pirate thing in this world, but the British seem to think so, because they look down at it. Why did no one check that Ricky had no weapons on him beforehand? And most importantly, where the fuck was Stede during this suicide plan? He is the one who planned it, yet he was nowhere around the group with Ricky, nor did he fight any Soldiers. He only reappears when everyone is running away. What the hell!! Where'd he fuck off to. Again, all this epic plan build up, for the barely existing plan to go up in shambles within 5 seconds, and then they all run. At this point they could have just left Ricky at the Inn and attempted to walk to the ship safely in disguise without ever drawing attention to the soldiers, and they would have had as much chance.

Ed asks Izzy if he is okay and I raise an eyebrow, A) because we as the viewers barely saw him get hit and B) Ed hasn't cared much about Izzy after Stede returns. But okay, we're stumbling back to the ship, surprisingly no one else gets shot.

Izzy is bleeding out on the ship, Stede and Roach run off to get bandages. "Bonnet is in charge, oh great I am fucked" is a true statement, considering Stede was in charge with the plan already and got Izzy to here. Later you hear footsteps approaching offscreen, which I guess were Stede and Roach. They just appear again, with no bandages and no comment. I don't want to get into detail how much I despise Izzy's parting words, and the message they send out, but Izzy throughout this season proved he wanted to live and got ready for living again, just to end up saying he wants to go here, and it's just so utterly wrong. This scene was presented as someone who was healed and now got to die amongst his loved ones, but he was not healed. He practically still believed he deserved what he got, and he died believing Ed did not need him and thus he was unnecessary. If he truly was healed, he would fight to live, if not for himself and his new found family, then for Ed who he still loves, but no. Okay maybe I did want to go into detail, but anyway, many have said it better than me already.

The crew who bonded with Izzy over the whole season stands mutely in the background, leaving the stage to Ed, who has barely cared about Izzy all season. Out of nothing I am supposed to believe Izzy means something to him, after Ed shot him down, discarded of him, happily mentioned to Frenchie that "But most importantly, no more Izzy" like Izzy had been the bane of his existence, the guy he didn't even have the balls to approach first to apologize but instead mocked Izzy when Izzy himself finally broke their silence, I am supposed to believe that Edward suddenly realizes Izzy's worth and that he deserves to be the one grieving, not leaving any space to the crew? I don't think so.

All season I was waiting for them to make up again, patiently, full of hope, but the remaining episodes got less and less. And I held out hope for them to bond over talks and teamwork, remembering how well they worked together before it turned sour, acknowledging that they could do better if they tried, but instead we got this. This is supposed to help Edward move on as Not Blackbeard, but Izzy had already encouraged Ed to not be Blackbeard, yet Ed came back deciding on his own to don his leather outfit again. This is such a back and forth, it's frustrating. They could have accomplished growth without a death, but I've already talked about that.

Also Izzy telling Ed has family now, because the crew loves him. Ed bonded exactly with one person outside of Stede, and that was Fang, who was once Blackbeard's crew anyway. Other than that Ed only hung back and did not give a shit about what the crew was doing, but sure they love him after the non-pology. Where were the scenes to back this claim up, it was utter nonsense.

Okay, we get a burial. No one says a thing, no one's got to say a thing about their unicorn. Everyone leaves, and "That's that then". Stede talks about Izzy, like he hasn't personally bonded with Izzy over the last episodes and like he was simply a guy Ed dragged along (the way season 1 Stede would have felt). Also, no acknowledgement that Stede's plan was what got Izzy killed whatsoever, no remorse.

Aye no time to be sad, we got a wedding now! It lasts less than a minute screen time, and I am still recovering from the emotional impact of a death scene + burial, maybe give me a minute so I can feel happy for LuPete? No? okay.

Stede and Ed decide to build an Inn, nothing either of them has experience in. Also the "family" Izzy promised Ed is sailing away, so that was for nothing as well. What happened to Stede wanting to be a pirate? What happened to Ed returning to being a pirate, because it's what he's good at? What exactly made them change opinions to leave their crew behind and start this? *lame hand gesture at Izzy's grave* This?? I am usually good at looking for clues and details and figuring stuff out in between the lines, but I am left clueless as to what inspired this.

I am 100% sure there were missing scenes that could have helped soften the blow of the death at least, but like this the episode feels jarringly badly patched together. There is no visible impact to the death that would explain the necessity to the narrative (and yes, we are in a story, not real life. Plot points happen because they bring the narrative along, and it didn't here) With everything established beforehand, it felt like the death got shoehorned in, simply because someone said "I want this character to be dead at the end of the season", and then a story was somehow built around this.

And of course people are upset about this, when I watched I thought it was a joke and I was waiting for the little wink telling me it's not what it seems. The theme I gathered from this season was "belonging", and to see the guy accepting that he belonged and deserved to be loved to be left behind and denied a chance to continue with the crew where he BELONGS, because he's dead and gone, is a very stupid choice.

The season had many unexplained and unresolved things that I chose to overlook because the show was still ongoing and I had hoped they would all work out in the end, but they didn't and this sours the whole experience.

Fandom

This has less to do with me unraveling the happenings of the show, but whatever.

I joined very late, a few weeks before season 2 aired. I was however vaguely aware that Izzy was controversial to the fandom and that fans got hate mail for liking the character who "broke the main couple apart". So going into the new season as someone who utterly loved Izzy in season 1, I was skeptical lol

But it was a nice experience. Season 2 showed parts of Izzy that I had already seen but in a way that made it clear to everyone that this guy has Emotional Layers TM and is capable of more than just being the guy throwing a hissy fit. Everyone could sympathize with him, people enjoyed seeing him, and I legit loved going through the tags of the gifsets and reading all the reactions.

Generally I loved seeing the reactions after every new episode, seeing how fandom came together to talk over what happened, and over what they enjoyed. I had expected a very split fandom but it seemed season 2 was somewhat gluing it together. Izzy was finally an "accepted" character and thus it was "okay" now to love him, now that he wasn't trying to break Ed/Stede apart either. The show was feeding fans too, I felt like I feasted every episode up until the finale happened.

And /then/ the finale happened and the illusion went away.

Up to then I thought this was a season for the Izzy fans, with the opener episode showing how ridiculous the take of "Izzy has to die for Ed/Stede to be happy" was in a mocking dream episode, I thought that was David Jenkins acknowledging the hate that has been sent in the direction of Izzy & his fans, and how it's Not That Easy. And then he proved Izzy was more than that.

And then he killed Izzy off, so Ed/Stede could be happy and we've come full circle again.

Of course Izzy fans were upset, because it felt like a final fuck you after a season full of promises that it would be okay, and of course people were voicing their displeasure and sadness over it. Some people were downright grieving the character, and I can tell you I Am People. I went through the 5 stages of grief, through bargaining and anger directly after the finale, sadness the whole day after, crying over it because it felt so unjust to me. And maybe these reactions seem extreme to you, but that does not mean that people aren't feeling awful about the finale, that it truly hurt them. And you do not get to mock people for feeling in pain. What do you gain from that? If you liked the finale, fine, everyone is different, but allow the people who were shaken by it to express their emotions. Processing emotions takes time, and as a part of this I wrote a goddamn essay to make peace. The least you could do is not be a dick.

Parting thoughts are that the final episode was both a product of unfortunate cuts in screen time, and a writer who didn't expect the effect it would have on the audience.

I am not hating on David Jenkins, I loved every other episode of the season and eagerly anticipated the next one, but I am so incredibly sad that one botched finale broke my trust into the show, soured my love for the previous episodes with the knowledge of what it all built up to, and left the fandom back in shambles.

So long, and be kind to each other.

#ofmd s2 #ofmd season 2 spoilers #izzy hands #ofmd meta #That was the longest I've ever typed. But also at least I feel more content now #You actually do have my respect if you went through this #and to everyone still struggling with sadness: i feel you #ofmd critical

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ckret2 · 2 days ago

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Seeing tidbits about this character called VENDOR in your asks and while I know nothing about THEM, I do wonder why THEIR pronouns are THEY and not IT?

(I just know that I leap at the chance to give artificial/manufactured sentient creatures it/its pronouns as a little extra oomph of alien-ness, another step of removal from what most sentient creatures recognize as identity. So maybe I should answer my own question and say 'personal taste')

(Also any news on updates for the Ao3 version? I'm an Ao3-only goober I'm sorry if you've answered this question before)

I have another nonhuman character in the same plot arc who uses it/its pronouns—a sentient storm cloud—and it got added to the story first so I gave it pronouns first. And I wanted to shuffle up which pronouns each character uses, so the next genderless character that showed up got they/them.

I had to write the plot arc I'm currently posting to tumblr out of order—usually I'm 15+ chapters ahead of what I've posted, but my plans for this plot arc were completely upended by TBOB (it's a plot about the aftermath of the massacre of Bill's dimension, so like, you can imagine how it'd be really easy for TBOB to upset things), which means instead of writing chapters 15 weeks ahead, I'm writing them like 1 week ahead and editing them like 2 days ahead. Also, this plot arc has a lot of convoluted sci-fi worldbuilding and politics, and writing it has felt like trying to give birth to a Jeep.

So because of this plot arc specifically, there's no spare time left in my life to edit chapters for AO3. So unfortunately it's probably gonna be a few more weeks. Once I'm back to chapters I've already written, I hope to have time to edit and post to AO3 again.

#anonymous #ask #about my writing #bill goldilocks cipher

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flower-boi16 · 7 months ago

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This is a problem I've never seen any hh/hb critics bring out so...both shows lacks story arcs. There are so many definition for story arcs, but I'm going to explain what I mean by that. Story arcs for me is a certain part in the story that works like pieces focusing different journey or problem for characters in the same story. If both shows have story arcs like if season one of helluva boss focus on the imp doing their job and their beef with cherubs, season two focusing on their beef with dhorks. Season one of hazbin focusing on hotel's clients bonding, and season two how angels think of redemption. Each season can have multiple arcs going on, but given how limited episodes they got on each show, I decided to make each season focus on different arcs, but the writers have no plan how to organize different arcs resulting in many conflicts showing out of no where, and rushed payoff because they don't know what they want to focus. If the hh/hb crews know how to utilize arcs, they can put as many characters as they want as long as they can give enough episodes for their development. Imagine if every harry potter's villain showed up in the same book, that's how I feel about hh/hb.

HH and HB are just structured pretty poorly. They cram multiple seasons worth of plotlines into just 1-2 seasons and messes with the pacing REALLY bad. It all feels so...cluttered and unfocused like the shows don't know what they want to be about.

HB is ESPECIALLY bad at this as I've talked about before. The show completely forgot it's main premise and turned into a soap opera about Stolitz. It has no idea what it even wants to be anymore and it comes to a simple lack of structure.

Season 1 laid the groundwork for a lot of the show's issue and Season 2 would go ahead and make those issues significantly worse.

There's just two many conflicts and recurring plotlines for a show that currently has only 1 completed season, with the second still ongoing. It makes it into kind of a mess. Hazbin is at least better structurally but it still faces a lot of the same issues that HB does when it comes to how it's paced; the first four episodes feel like the first season and the second half feels like the second season because it feels like there's this giant gap in between halves where major things happened, but...we just never saw it.

And for HB, conflicts like the Dhorks plot line and Stolas' family drama are conflicts that are already enough to be the main story's of whole seasons, yet the show crams them into one season and it again, gets unfocused as hell. The seasons of both shows just choose to focus on multiple things at once rather than just having one, maybe two major plot lines per season, one show sets up six plotlines into just it's first season and the other rushes to the stuff that feels like it should be saved for season 2.

I just want to emphasize how unusual it is for a show to have this much stuff in just 1-2 seasons. Most TV shows tend to have one or two main recurring plot lines per season, with some smaller plot lines here and there that are typically plot lines for a specific character relating to their arc. HB in just it's first season set up six major plot lines within its story. Let me repeat that. SIX.

There's just. Too much shit going on in these shows. Plain and simple.

#vivziepop critical #hazbin hotel critical #helluva boss critical #vivziepop criticism #helluva boss criticism #hazbin hotel criticism

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lets-try-some-writing · 29 days ago

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Hi, I enjoyed your review of Transformers One. Just one minor thing, since Ratchet is referenced as 'Doctor Ratchet' in the film, that strongly suggests he isn't cogless. Regardless, it's a shame he didn't show up, especially if he does have a cog. Could have shown not all higher ranked bots are like Darkwing.

It's a shame about Elita, I really like her and ship her with Optimus. Maybe she'll be improved in the future films, she did seem too rude and aggressive. A previous warmth which turns into frustration before building up her friendship with Orion again would have worked great.

PS. Speaking of Elita, I'm looking forward to her interaction with Optimus in Action! I think Optimus won't be able to be as 'evil' as he's meant to be with her.

I must have missed that line then. I cannot for the life of me recall where Ratchet was referenced even though I am sure it happened somewhere. This is what I get for furiously analyzing specific scenes and ignoring others. But yes! Ratchet should have been there! It would have been wonderful.

And yeah, Elita is disappointing in the extreme for me. So much potential, gone with the wind. All her characters flaws could have given her room to have an arc and get over her faults, but NOPE. Girlboss time. I don't even mind Elita being awesome if there's at least a solid REASON for it, along with reasonable and plausible character progression. I don't expect her to improve going forward considering a solo movie for her has been discussed. I hated Ray Palpatine/Skywalker/whatever the heck her name is. And I legitimately worry that they might try and go that route with Elita considering the state of modern media and the flat 2-D nature of most female characters.

It's going to be a rough few years for Elita-One in TF media, but that's what fanfic is for. We'll do her justice. Already the fandom is making her more appealing than the movie ever could.

(I too and looking forward to Elita in the next Action! Chapter. She's going to have such a fantastic situation to handle. I've got it all planned and already have about six pages written XD)

#lets try some writing mumbles #transformers #maccadam #elita one #ratchet #tf one

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swordandscytheandpen · 2 months ago

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Finished Guide. I have thoughts.

Mostly positive ones. I have nitpicks, sure, but it's damn near impossible to write a fully satisfying resolution to a three million word story. EE did an insanely good job considering.

Akua was one of the highlights, of course. Her arc was indeed probably the single best redemption story I've ever seen. The pivot in Praes, in particular, was amazingly compelling ("why was she not hearing the song?" hit me HARD). @kvothbloodless once responded to my tags while I was in the middle of Book 2, assuaging my skepticism that a character as remarkably hateable as Akua could have a well-executed redemption arc, and I gotta say her confidence was well-placed. It's a testament to EE's character writing skills that a character who is not only morally monstrous but immensely personally unlikeable could be turned around like this. I'll make fun of Guide's length, of course, but I don't think an arc like this could be handled so well in a work of reasonable length. It's a strength both of the writer and the medium, I suppose.

Her final fate, like most of the cast's, was a pretty solid conclusion to her character arc as well. Really followed through on the narrative's refusal to entertain redemption through death, while still being a surprise, unlike the whole Dead-King's-jailor thing. The dynamics of that particular fate on her character had already been explored through her and Cat's thoughts several times, so it's nice to see something different, instead of just watching the original plan play out with rings instead of a crown.

Same goes for a lot of the other characters. Viv and Indrani had excellent conclusions. Masego and Hakram I'm not dissatisfied with, though I do have minor points of umbrage. Hakram's arc might just have gone past me a little bit; I feel that if he has to be tied so tightly to the Clans as a whole he really needed more foreshadowing connecting him to his home. Instead, it felt a little bit like a family-conquers-all story shoved in with only justification in the moment, which ain't really my cup of tea. More specifically, it felt like the narrative required him to have deeply-held goals that he could go be independent about, but forgot to actually touch on those goals until he'd already left Catherine. Still, just a mild disappointment.

Then we've got Masego, and my take on him is similar in that it's broadly satisfying but I just feel like it doesn't fit in certain ways. In his case, it's mostly the apotheosis: the edges of that particular puzzle piece seem rough, as if EE had something else in mind but swapped it out relatively late in the process. There was some hinting that his dream of godhead would result in conflict with Cat, and then they just... didn't do that. Then in the epilogues, it really seems like his apotheosis hadn't made much impact on who he is or what he does. His part of the epilogue would have been just as suitable, to my eyes, if he hadn't achieved that. So it fell flat a little bit, which took some of the wind out of his ending. Everything else about him was great though.

Catherine's ending took the longest for me to think through. At first I was a bit ambivalent about it, 'cause it felt like nothing was really subverted. Minus a few hiccups, she got everything she wanted. Cardinal. The Liesse Accords. Even all the Woe surviving. The only thing she didn't get was Akua, and she already knew that wasn't on the table. I really just did not expect a straightforward Catherine Wins ending to the Guide. I thought she'd probably die at least; in fact, I thought the most likely outcome was Cat's death and her goals being posthumously realized! This story sure felt like a tragic ending was coming down the pipes!

And then once again, I remembered that this is a story about stories. What Cat has isn't just a happy ending, it's one last victory over the narrative. It's a middle finger to the idea that villains don't get to sail off into the sunset. And you know, it really takes some strength to put a fresh coat of paint on the very idea of a happy ending. So yeah, Cat's ending is great. Just perfect.

But of course, there's no way to wrap up three million words while satisfying every single plot point. So, keeping in mind that APGTE is probably among my top 5 written works in the English language now, I do have a point or two of order.

First off, towards the end, Named were dying like flies. Felt like every chapter had a list of casualties all its own. And I can see the drive to do that; there were a lot of Named involved by that point and there had to be casualties. It keeps the stakes high and the villains scary. But I can't help but feel discouraged from reading once six characters I'm somewhat engaged with die in the span of two chapters. Mostly offscreen.

The biggest offender here was the Painted Knife's band. I really loved the bonus chapter about their backstories, as well as the concept of them as the first band containing both heroes and villains, and I'd wish we'd seen nore of how that relationship developed. And I thought it was a weighty enough label that they'd shot up again later. So when it was mentioned offhand that the Royal Conjurer was killed, I was blindsided a little bit. And then the rest died, one by one, offscreen (except the Knife). Poor Poisoner. She was my favorite. Felt like wasted potential, like a story that wasn't followed through to the end. The Blade of Mercy was in a similar boat. He was important in the Arsenal arc! Let him die onscreen at least!

There was Roland too, who wasn't as bad. His death wasn't really satisfying, another surprise Hawk casualty, but at least it was shown and meaningful. Still, I feel like he deserved a proper character arc outside his backstory. Poor guy.

A couple other deaths, too: Rafaella and Alexis in the fight against the Dead King. Rafaella was ambiguous enough that I really wasn't sure whether she was dead for a while, and even after... I dunno. The hero who killed Captain needed a stronger resolution than "sacrificed herself to get rid of the Dead King's last line of revenants." Then Alexis's death just wasn't meaningful; it wasn't for anything. And I know, I know, that's not how death works, but it is in stories! Didn't feel right. It was too fast.

But the Keter deaths were really my biggest gripe, and if that's the biggest problem I have with a conclusion to a story that long? I can only offer applause.

You know what death I didn't have a problem with? Hanno, in the epilogue. How the hell do you kill a character that major in just a few sentences and make it feel satisfying? The epilogues were just all-around great. The character deaths and resolutions felt natural, plot points that were touched on in the main story were shown to ultimately be left to the next generation, and the continued history and development of the world made it feel so alive. It's a common sin for characters to create a new static world that's supposed to feel like it'll last forever. And sure, the framework of the Accords are kinda like that, but the rest of the world? There are still wars, still conflicts, still upheavals. (The Republic of Orense was a nice touch in that regard.) The epilogues are nearly flawless and I will stand by that.

Last thing - of course I gotta talk about Anaxares. When Yara dropped him into the Serenity, I was pretty hyped about it. But then... I dunno. It turned out a bit flat. Felt less like the culmination of Anaxares's character and more like a plot device to cross the Serenity out of the equation. At the end of the day, with Anaxares sitting in the Serenity through the final battle and then appearing in the epilogues just to pop up years in the future, cause problems, and run off again, he felt weirdly like a sequel hook? And forgive me, but I'd eat my hat if there's a sequel. I guess it's imagination bait, which is certainly preferable to a poorly-executed conclusion. He's still my favorite non-Cat character. If there's any decent fic about him, please give it.

Speaking of, that's all I've got. Looking back up, this was mostly petty complaints, but I wanna be clear: once the first few books were past and EE broke their worst writing habits, this became one of my favorite writing pieces ever. The length and the proliferation of typos and other errors mean that I'd hesitate to fullthroatedly recommend it to anyone, but it's one of those works that has permanently altered my brain. Good fucking book.

Okay, Pale Lights time. Hopefully I'll catch up before Book 3 comes to an end, but I'm not gonna rush. Rapidly chewing through ridiculously long works is not, I have learned, conducive to getting the most enjoyment out of them.

#sorry for the most of you that do not have any idea what this is about.#read guide if you've got a year to spare.#mine #long post #apgte #pgte #a practical guide to evil #practical guide to evil

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