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teacup-of-candlelight · 29 days ago

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THANK YOU!! THANK YOU FINALLY!!

I'm so glad someone said it!!! This is part of why even though I can see that it makes logical sense, I will never like the ending. Hate the ending. Need fix it fics to make sure this ending is avoided. Because so much senseless suffering is not ACTUALLY unwritten by making copies and simulations just to experience the same pain and suffering in a presumably endless loop.

No thank you.

Now, you can call me old fashioned, but I really prefer my stories to have happy or at least satisfying earned endings. And you could say maybe that Maddie earned her ending by making herself a god and sticking out all those millenia to "get her bag" in a way, but WHEN THE BAG WAS JUST GOING BACK TO HIGH SCHOOL TO RELIVE THE TRAGIC PAST THAT GOT YOU THERE??? I DONT FIND THAT SATISFYING. SUE ME. I feel is that was her "earning" happiness, she deserved actual happiness, an actual life, an actual family. She brought her dad back to life only to immediately chose to live again in a world he was dead. LIKE-?! *DEEP SIGH*

But tbh, I wouldn't even call what she was doing earning her ending because the truth is, it was a fate worse than death for her, and she did NOT deserve it. I don't find Maddie becoming a cosmic cyber deity a girlboss moment. Its incredibly, soul crushingly, sad.

And none of the other characters deserved it either. NONE of them got a happy ending. Even in the world where she reunited her parents AND resurrected her son, she and her son's father immediately left. IF that simulation continued at all, Maddie just made her parents loose a child and her son an orphan. His father was ripped away from him without even giving them a chance to talk. That's not a happy ending imo. ESPECIALLY when it was done just so those two could relive their teen romance.

In getting back everything she lost, which was basically everything, Maddie became the exact thing she always hated. Never wanted to be.

Disembodied. A breaker of families. A causer of grief.

She was not the benevolent god they were looking for.

Alone in the universe. Because even if she "got Caspian back", she's an ancient cosmic deity, and he's just 18, and they chose to keep him that way. No one is like her in her world.

And I for one find that wretchedly sad.

I prefer stories with a hard won victory. Not.. hard fighting for an "at what cost" ending when only two characters get to experience some questionable happiness. They played us so hard by bringing Dave and David back. They gave us 5 seconds of "Look guys everything is better now!" before it was ripped away from everyone involved including us.

I see no victory here. Just more senseless pain these characters never deserved.

SPOILERS FOR THE ENDING OF PANTHEON SEASON 2 BELOW 👇 TW: Sui, self h, murder

One of the things that breaks my heart most about the ending of the show, is the fates of the human main characters:

David Sr. - died of cancer being the first human subject to an experimental brain surgery, in the hopes of mending the heartbreak of his family after his passing. It could be true that he suffered just as much as Chanda did on his surgery, though it may also not be the case, because Logorythems had a different surgical process to Chanda's captors.

Ellen Kim - chose to end her life because she felt irrelevant in her working field and because of her immense divide with her daughter (and probably grandchild), both on an emotional, philosophical and probably physical level.

Maddie Kim - died 20 years after her first and only love passed away in front of her to save humanity. Before passing she lost every close human connection she had, had to go through teenage pregnancy, raising a child as a single mom, and having that same child bleed to death in her arms. The only reason she uploaded was that she felt she had no other reason to live. She was the only one that felt that uploading was not a solution, but suicide.

Caspian Keyes - died as a martyr to save humanity as a teenager, after years of mental and physical abuse orchestrated by a big corporation, his last few years experienced in constant existential crisis and the disregard for his own safety and survival.

Cary - died to save his adopted son, but ultimately, did not get to know that he died as a martyr shortly after.

Renee - not a very nice woman that drove herself insane for a person she was madly obsessed with. After abusing a child for years, being a horrible and abusive colleague (if you call being a fake wife that), involving herself with a plan to genocide the entire human population (or at least as much of it as possible) for a lover just as insane as her, and just as dead.

Cody Lowel - similarly to maddie, probably uploaded out of despair.

Laurie Lowel - was murdered for the purpose of a failed experiment. Twice, if you consider the faith of her UI.

Chanda - same as Laurie, but had to be awake and suffer for a long time before dying in the very same experiment. Twice.

Though we did get a relatively "good" ending for a variation of Maddie and Caspian's UI, the only individuals I keep longing for are the humans involved in this story. I believe the one that suffered the most, if you can really make such a comparison, is Maddie.

Having experienced loss and grief over and over and over, just for her very last moments to be surrendering to despair, after holding your dying son... I cannot think about her character without getting misty-eyed. Having lost all of your family in the most brutal ways, including your would be future husband/long-term partner, it's just gut-wrenching.

Lots of people have found feelings of relief after realizing the fate of the UIs, but I could never stop thinking about the humans. I'm not even sure if we watched the real story, because we were introduced to a simulation in the first place. What if their fates were worse than what we saw already?

The slongen of the Pro Upload folks was "die now, live forever" but the reality is that not every character in the show considered their UI copy to be a continuation of themselves. So those who chose to upload even though they philosophy opposed it, have essentially ended their lives seeing it as us the viewers see suicide in our world, and it's heartbreaking. Though, ending your life viewing your UI copy as a continuation of you is horrifying in it's own way (may make a separate post on that).

#this is what happens when I let all the inside thoughts out.#I'm sorry and you're welcome #pantheon meta #pantheon season 2 #pantheon amc #pantheon show #pantheon netflix #pantheon netflix is a tag now?!?

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mumms-the-word · 6 months ago

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Gale's Netherese Orb

The Condition and Symptoms

You asked for it! You're getting it! Yet another deep dive, this time about Gale's orb functioning as a chronic impairment/disability and the ways that a cure is dangled in front of him and even withheld from him.

Disclaimer: a lot of this has already been discussed by lore-wizards like galedekarios or mezzziah and some information is going to come from actual-lea's wild playthrough of the Gale Origin where they didn't give him any magic items just to see what would happen (which I recreated quickly in my own game to gather screenshots and gifs of my own). I'm not going to tag any of them because I don't want to bother them, but if you want even more lore, you can and should check them out!

We're going to look at Gale's orb "condition" in three phases: the effects of the orb on Gale's body itself, the ways that he has to treat it, and the potential cure for the orb. Because my deep dives always get a little out of hand, I’m splitting this into 3 posts. So you can take and leave whatever you like, but I'll link the masterlist to all 3 parts here once I have them posted!

But without further ado, let's deep dive!

I've said before that Baldur's Gate 3 is ultimately a game about cure—finding a cure for ceremorphosis, specifically. Every companion is facing a (potentially lethal) forced transformation into a squid creature in seven days or less unless they find a cure. At least, that's what they think before they realize that their tadpoles are special. On top of that, several characters, including Gale, especially Gale, are also dealing with additional chronic conditions that they wish to cure.

Let's set aside the search for the tadpole cure for a minute and focus on Gale—his character arc, his goals, even the text for his questline. The moment that Gale steps out of his pod on the nautiloid, he has a twofold goal: find a way to cure or treat the hungering orb in his chest and find a way to cure or stop ceremorphosis, in part because turning into a mind flayer may destabilize the orb, thus making the orb the bigger or more significant problem for Gale personally.

In other words, on two fronts, Gale's entire plot is concerned about curing a chronic, potentially lethal condition (or two), but the orb is the bigger issue between the two. Turning into a mind flayer is one thing, turning into a cataclysmic explosion that could "level a city the size of Waterdeep" is another.

The Wizard of Waterdeep Objectives - Escape the nautiloid I was an archmage - powerful, proud, full of potential - until my failed attempt to impress my lover, the goddess Mystra, left me with a volatile 'orb' of Netherese-corrupted Weave in my chest. Keeping it stable is difficult at the best of times...and these are far from the best of times. I've been abducted by mind flayers, infected with one of their tadpoles. So far the orb appears unaffected, but I can't count on that for long. I need to get back to Faerûnian soil before it begins to hunger.

Despite being infected by illithid tadpoles, Gale's larger concern is that staying in the hells will make feeding the orb difficult. When he gets off the nautiloid, he's worried that turning into a mind flayer will completely destabilize the orb. It's his primary concern and will continue to be so throughout the game.

Narrator: Despite your recent fall from the nautiloid, you are miraculously unharmed. Apart from the volatile orb of Netherese magic buried within your chest, of course. It stirs softly. Soon it will hunger, and when that time comes it must be fed. Starve it, and you risk triggering a cataclysmic explosion of raw, unfettered Weave. Such an explosion will be unavoidable, if the tadpole in your skull triggers ceremorphosis. An outcome definitely best avoided.

So, yeah, the squid thing is a problem, but Gale is definitely more concerned about exploding. But exploding and "hungering" aren’t the only things the orb does to his body.

I’m going to break down the actual condition into three smaller segments: the words Gale uses to talk about his condition, the physical effects that Gale describes happening to him, and the mechanical gameplay effects. I’ll talk more about the actual “hunger” of the orb in part 2 when I talk about its treatment, in part because the hunger and the treatment are both magical effects and are intrinsically linked. But for now, let's start with a look at how Gale talks about the orb.

Call it a Condition

To start off, Gale describes having the orb in his chest along the same lines that people might discuss chronic impairments or chronic illness. It's not a minor "issue" or a "problem" that is disconnected from Gale's body and physical/mental health; instead, he calls it a "condition," a "malady," and even a "chronic impairment." He couches the condition in terms that evoke illness and unwellness.

Gale: You see, I have this...condition. Very different from the parasites we share, but just as deadly. Player: What kind of condition? Gale: The specifics are rather personal, but suffice it to say that it is a malady I have learned to live with - though not without some effort. Player: (Durge) You also feel disgust by how life, miserable as it is, insists of persisting in this most wretched world? / (Tav) Is it contagious? Gale: No, no - nothing like that. Though if I fail to treat it then the consequences would not be contained to me alone. Player: Can it be cured? Gale: No, it cannot be cured. And I assure you I've left no page unturned in reaching that conclusion. I can keep this condition under control, as indeed I've done for a significant amount of time, but that was under different circumstances altogether. Home, in Waterdeep. What it comes down to is this: every so often I need to get my hands on a powerful magical item and absorb the Weave inside.

Player (Ranger): I think I might have a dock leaf in my bag, or some medicinal berries... Gale: Thank you for the offer, but the treatment for my condition is very specific.

Gale: The reality of the matter is that a lone wizard with a chronic impairment such as my own is not in the most ideal of situations with regards to self-defence.

In Gale's first conversation with the player about the orb, which is where all of the above comes from, he uses language related to illness and chronic pain/impairment to discuss the orb. It's a "condition," it is a "malady" that requires "treatment," it is a "chronic impairment," and so on.

Generally, at first, he speaks lightly about it and even continues to joke about his condition ("my tower in Waterdeep has never been so free of clutter" and so on), but the reality is he's underplaying the actual physical toll it takes on his body. When you ask him what happens if he doesn't consume any artifacts, he'll briefly describe some symptoms to you that aren't obvious to the player character. Which brings us to...

The Physical Symptoms

This is how he describes the initial physical symptoms of the orb's hunger:

Gale: I'll spare you the finer details, but it begins with a simple biological deterioration. Muscle spasms, disorientation, a slight ringing in the ears. And if left for too long...catastrophe.

In other places, we see the orb's hunger/pain also affecting his ability to think clearly, suggesting he's experiencing a kind of brain fog or concentration issue, plus general discomfort, and a feeling like something is gnawing at his insides, as seen in various lines below.

Gale: You'll have to speak slowly. I'm finding it quite difficult to concentrate with my condition gnawing at my insides like a teething displacer kitten. Gale: Somehow the second artefact hasn't had the effect of the first. It's somewhat relieved the discomfort, but I fear my hunger hasn't quite... Ahh...* Gale: But... this doesn't feel quite right... It never feels right, but it relieves. This doesn't relieve... Ahh...* *devnote: Near the end of the line he's in discomfort, in pain

This is all from the second artifact conversation, when you give him the second item to try and feed the orb's hunger (the last line is a lower approval/you've-been-begrudging-about-items kind of line, so he's still being closed off with you). When you hear these lines in the game, he's obviously speaking with discomfort and with difficulty, as if trying to string words together despite the pain. His little comments as you travel with him/as him while he is dealing with arcane hunger also reference weakness, pain, and concentration issues.

- I'm feeling rather unsteady... - Deep breaths, Gale. Hold it together. - I'd be rather enjoying this journey, were I not wracked with pain. - One step in front of the other, Gale. - Ugh, I feel rotten. devnote: Slightly pained/struggling with a constant ache (the orb is negatively affecting him, causing him pain. Prompt is to remind the player that Gale is unwell.) [mumm's note: there are other lines as well, beyond these, and Gale will say them at random, so there's no progression into better or worse. This is just a sample of the lines.]

Given everything so far, I suspect the pain he feels is a combination of heart/chest pain, like one might feel during an anxiety attack, a POTS flare-up, or even a heart attack, while the gnawing sensation could be like hunger cramps (or any other internal cramping, though I think for Gale it feels higher up in his body than in his stomach, given the orb's location).

I highly suspect the orb is feeding off of not only his magic, but his body as well. We know it feeds off his magic specifically (more on this in the other two parts, especially because this detail doesn't come to light until Gale meets with Mystra). But given the pains and the way he frames his condition as a state of deterioration, it's likely that it's also feeding off energy stores and other biological/physical elements of his body, not unlike how extreme hunger can cause your body to essentially eat itself—your fat stores first, but eventually even your muscle tissues and other vital tissues.

(I've seen someone suggest this is why Gale has "dehydration state" chiseled abs like movie stars have because the orb is literally eating away at his fat/energy stores and so on. It's a compelling theory!)

The orb also weakens him, likely causes massive fatigue, and even seems to be draining his "spirit" or his mental capabilities. We see this in descriptions of Arcane Hunger (which are below). It's a wonder this man can put one foot in front of the other if the pain is particularly bad.

In addition to all the other physical symptoms, the orb itself has physically scarred his body with the marking on his chest, which is also bruising pretty significantly (though this "bruising" could just as likely be dark-colored magic just beneath his skin, your headcanon/mileage may vary).

Photo credits: @elspethdekarios, though I cropped them down for this deep dive

If you click on the images and zoom in, you can see how the markings have a bit of depth and texture to them, as opposed to the flat lines of a tattoo. The lines are carved into his skin. Certain lighting will also make the mark look darker or lighter, and make the bruising at the center faint or noticeably dark. There are some theories that the bruising gets worse as the game goes on, but I think it's just a lightning issue (though it would be interesting if the bruising gets darker with each new level of arcane hunger, or something to that effect).

Lastly, and I'll discuss this more in part 2, even when the orb does not actively pain Gale, it "stirs." Other references from the narrator reveal that the orb "shudders" or "prickles" within him. Gale can feel the movement of the orb inside his body, possibly like a weird fluttering or vibration in his chest. It's likely why, even when he isn't actively hungering, he'll put his hand over his chest and adjust his shoulders, as if reacting to a strange and slightly uncomfortable sensation within his chest.

Anyway, long story short, the physical symptoms of dealing with the hungering orb are:

Biological deterioration (like hunger, the body consuming itself, muscles weakening, etc)

Muscle spasms

Disorientation

Ringing in the ears

Difficulty concentrating/brain fog/mental fatigue

Cramping and/or chest pain

General discomfort and pain

Physical fatigue/feelings of weakness

Scarring and bruising from the orb itself

A sensation of the orb "stirring" even when not painful

And this man will joke about it.

Honestly, his ability to joke and discuss his condition with humor is a sign to me that he really is experiencing and thinking of the orb the same way people with chronic conditions think about their pain or illnesses. At the start of the game, Gale's condition is incurable—Gale says as much himself that it "cannot be cured." It can only be managed, treating the symptoms and diminishing the pain, rather than completely eradicating the impairment. Gale likely has a new scale for pain, the same way people with chronic pain do. A "bad day" for him would likely end most healthy, normative people in a clinic hoping for some prescription pain medication, whereas he will just grit his teeth and keep going. In short, saying that the orb is a "chronic impairment" is a bit of an understatement, and I don't think people realize just how much Gale is/acts like a person dealing with real-world chronic pain or chronic illnesses.

Gale is used to this pain, though he certainly isn't enjoying it. Have you ever persuaded him to wait before giving him a magic item? If your persuasion is high enough (and he likes you), he'll give a cheery "of course!" even though treating the pain is obviously the preferable path here. When he reminds you of his need for an item, as with the "teething displacer kitten" line or the "My condition likes being ignored as much as I do," he still conveys these lines with a mix of urgency and dark humor. He's dealt with this condition for a year or more. You might be testing his tolerance by withholding items, but he's not going to let on just how badly he's actually feeling.

This is the man who will uncomfortably laugh and say "Gods, this is bloody uncomfortable," while the orb in his chest is running a high-grade POTS flare-up and consuming his innards. That's what we call an understatement, Gale. He could complain a lot more, and far more loudly, but he's actually keeping it quite restrained, as people with chronic pain often tend to do.

So anyway, if you ever hear anyone complaining that Gale complains about his magic orb condition too much, ask them how much they'd like walking around with heart-attack symptoms for a few hours at a time. But let's move on!

The Gameplay Effects

Now that we know what the orb does to Gale narratively, what does his condition do to him mechanically in the game? Because, unlike with Karlach's unstable engine or Shadowheart's incurable wound (other examples of chronic pain/disability in the game), the game adds actual debuffs to Gale's character that can affect gameplay and battles. Therefore, leaving Gale disabled with pain also, in effect, disables the player's ability to play the game (or at least hampers it).

In the game, there are three stages of Arcane Hunger. Most people generally don't go beyond the first stage, because why would you let Gale walk around with a debuff of any kind if you have a locket of dancing lights you'll never use? But if you continue to ignore him (or, if you're playing as Gale, and willfully choose not to consume any items) then the Arcane Hunger will progress to Greater and Severe Arcane Hunger, bringing even more serious debuffs to his character.

Arcane Hunger - Condition Gale's spirit is being drained. He has disadvantage on Constitution Saving Throws. Greater Arcane Hunger - Condition The Netherese Orb in Gale's body is weakening him. He has Disadvantage on Attack Rolls and all Saving Throws. Severe Arcane Hunger - Condition The Netherese Orb in Gale's body is severely weakening him. He has Disadvantage on Attack Rolls and all Saving Throws. His movement speed is halved.

Casual reminder that Constitution Saving Throws generally affect concentration, which is needed to maintain spells that last for more than one turn. This goes back to Gale's concentration/mental fatigue when he's initially hungering. When the hunger progresses, however, Gale is physically weakened and the game makes it so that he's more likely to fail savings throws or attacks.

Trying to normally play as Gale with these debuffs is basically an exercise in resigning yourself to missing attacks frequently and failing literally every saving throw (this includes disadvantage on saving throws in dialogues as well). He's still playable, since Magic Missile never misses and you can work with spells that deal damage even when an enemy passes their saving throw, but he becomes even more of a glass cannon than ever. If he's not at the back of a fight, he goes down pretty quick.

Once you hit Severe Arcane Hunger (which I hit after only 6.5 hours of rushed gameplay, though you could probably hit it sooner if you were zooming through a bit faster than me) you're also forced to walk everywhere. Gale's movement speed is halved. The distance he can move in a single turn is drastically shorter than usual, and his speed is no faster than a casual walk. Anyone who has tried to move while encumbered knows this same walking speed debuff.

So the game literally takes Gale's chronic impairment and makes it disabling to both him AND you controlling him. No one really wants to play the entirety of BG3 at a walking pace, after all, so it forces you to make a decision—will you finally treat Gale's condition, or will you grit your teeth and bare it, like Gale does with his pain (though it's nowhere near close to the same levels of discomfort).

Typically a companion Gale will just leave if you refuse to give him any items and he progresses to the stage where he's at Severe Arcane Hunger. But if you play as Origin Gale, you can keep playing with Severe Arcane Hunger until, well, his condition literally paralyzes him and then he withers away, apparently dying of necrotic damage from the orb (I’m assuming here, because the log doesn’t specify what damage causes Gale to wither away, and he exudes a necrotic damage aura once he’s dead, which happens whenever he dies anyway).

Gale withered away. Gale lost Condition: Gale is Paralysed. Gale received Condition: Gale is Paralysed. [mumm's note: obviously this is listed in reverse order, because Gale becomes paralyzed and then withers away]

It appears that if left untreated, Gale’s biological deterioration reaches a point that it literally shuts his body down completely, and then he just...dies. I imagine that physically the orb has eaten away at so many of his vital tissues, including his internal organs, that everything just sort of ceases to function. He's corrupted from the inside out, and nothing but death and a quick resurrection can reverse those effects.

It's worth noting that if you choose to do this experiment with Origin Gale and don't feed him a single magic item, then Elminster won't be waiting for you to arrive in the Mountain Pass or just outside the Shadow Cursed Lands if you travel through the Underdark. Since Gale hasn't been managing his symptoms, he hasn't realized that the various items he's consuming aren't having any effect. Therefore, he isn't actively looking for a new solution to treat the symptoms. Since he isn't looking, I guess Elminster never thought to make himself available with the new solution?

Honestly, why Elminster doesn't show up is kind of a mystery. Gameplay-wise, I assume it's that Gale's quest didn't progress enough to trigger the game flag that would spawn Elminster. But lore-wise or narratively, it doesn't make sense. Mystra sends Elminster with both a command and a temporary "cure," so is she just waiting until Gale realizes his symptoms can no longer be managed? No idea. Maybe I'll explore it more in Part 3.

Anyway the point is that when an untreated Gale reaches Moonrise without talking to Elminster, the game (and his condition) shuts him down. When you revive him at camp, Elminster conveniently appears to give him Mystra's command to sacrifice himself at the Heart of the Absolute and stabilizes the orb at last.

But there's a catch.

Elminster Aumar: A shame that we did not cross paths sooner. The orb's thirst for magic is now quenched, yet it already inflicted some damage while you tried to forge ahead. The ill effects may linger, I'm afraid. Not enough to hamper your mission, I hope.

I believe this can also happen with a companion Gale, but I'm not sure about the specific parameters of triggering this. Regardless, as actual-lea has observed in their No Gale Dinner experiment, if Gale has regular Arcane Hunger then Elminster stabilizes the orb and all is well, but if he has Greater or Severe Arcane Hunger, then the damage the orb does to his body becomes irreversible. After Elminster stabilizes the orb, in this scenario, Gale is left with a permanent "Arcane Hunger" debuff, the same as the above, where he suffers disadvantage on constitution saving throws. This time, you can't consume items to make it go away, and nothing will cure the debuff. Gale just permanently has it for the rest of the game.

(It's worth noting that you can also kill Elminster while he's talking with Gale, thus preventing him from stabilizing the orb with his magic and from telling Gale he needs to sacrifice himself. This sort of breaks the narrative for Gale and results in some wonky dialogue chains that do and don't flag correctly, but the interesting outcome is that it means you can continue playing the game with Severe Arcane Hunger, which is now also a permanent debuff. You can consume magical items before the Elminster visit, but never after. Even if you kill him, you lose the ability to consume items, which means it is officially impossible to manage Gale's symptoms. You just have to deal with the halved walking speed and disadvantage on everything. And you can complete the game that way, if you have the patience! But it would be a very long game. I would know. I've done it and I was rushing like a maniac lol)

Anyway this is getting super long, so I'll end with a few wrap-up thoughts.

Final Thoughts

Having played as Gale with Severe Arcane Hunger for several hours in the game, I think Gale honestly downplays just how bad the pain and debilitating effects of his condition really are. As I was going through the evidence, I kept thinking about how there are so many different elements of pain, discomfort, fatigue, and general unpleasantness that are all part of Gale's everyday life. Even when the orb is stabilized or not actively hurting him, he likely still feels it moving in his chest and I imagine there are chronic effects that stabilizing the orb couldn't exactly cure, like lingering fatigue (and we wonder why Gale complains about his knees and wanting to take a rest and so forth).

Ookay the knees thing might be unrelated to the orb but I digress

Dealing with that much pain and internal corruption is a state of living that most people wouldn't want to stay in, and Gale is no exception here. He wants to stop the pain in his chest, just as much as he wants his former abilities and magical prowess to return. These things are connected, which I'll talk about in part 2. But without hope of a cure, Gale is forced to deal with his condition as a process of managing symptoms, creating a treatment plan that involves him consuming magic from magical items just to get a bit of relief.

But that, my friends, is where we'll pick up with Part 2 - The Hunger and the Treatment.

#screw it we post #hooooo boy this got LONG #I'm sorry and you're welcome in advance #bg3 #baldur's gate 3 #bg3 lore #bg3 meta #bg3 deep dive #deep dive #long post #gale #gale dekarios #gale of waterdeep #bg3 discourse #bg3 screenshots

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