#i’m looking at you destiel and johnlock

[pigfartsviatardis]

Was discussing queerbaiting recently with a friend because we’re watching Once Upon A Time (trash, but shockingly well written trash in the first 3 seasons) and obs we both ship swan queen. I mean. Come on.

But we noticed that from the start of s3 onwards, there was noticeably less shippy stuff between these two. There’s still a bit here and there because a) lesbian mums and b) chemistryyyy… but it felt like the writers were intentionally backing off from that pairing and putting genuine effort into the male love interests for both characters.

You might think that becalming the swan queen ship would have annoyed or disappointed my friend and myself, the shippers. But tbh we both agreed that it was actually nice to see a writing team see a popular queer fandom ship, go ‘oh whoops that’s not endgame’, and actively NOT bait it.

Obviously everyone here is aware of the Golden Age Of Queerbaiting, the late 2000s/early 2010s; even if you’re too young to have actually battled through it, it’s deep tumblr lore. We all know the repeat and egregious offenders from that time - destiel, merthur, johnlock, whatever the main one was on teen wolf - and how gleefully these shows would dangle queer rep in front of our twitching little noses.

Recently, I’ve noticed a more insidious trend: the Male Friendship Scarcity Myth. The most glaring recent examples are nandermo (WWDITS) and jayvik (arcane), both of which were popular ships after the first season(s) of their shows aired and were subsequently given increased screen time and shippy scenes/storylines. In the case of nandermo, the romantic feelings (at least from Guillermo) were textual. Both pairings were given ambiguous endings where they were together, but not confirmed as, yknow, together.

And then both showrunners, after the shows ended, decided to step up to the mic and give a heartfelt little speech along the lines of ‘men are allowed to be friends without it being sexual, and it’s actually really important that we show this, because we need more representation of close platonic brotherly male friendship in media’.

Anyone who was around during the aforementioned Golden Age Of Queerbaiting, or in fact anyone who consumes popular media at all, knows that this is horseshit.

It’s only ever close platonic brotherly male friendship. Or at least, 95% of the time. Everywhere you look, from major fandom shows to mcu movies, platonic male relationships are often front and centre. That’s nearly always the canon. How often does a major mlm ship actually go canon??? Hardly ever. Even destiel didn’t; cas’s feelings were confirmed last minute, but the official canon dynamic between him and dean is still brotherly bffs.

Are these friendships often the subject of intense fandom shipping? Yes, as literally any close relationship between any two characters of any gender always will be. People like shipping! But the official canon, and the gospel truth held up by poorly disguised homophobes in fandom, is nearly always strictly platonic bros.

Anyway. All this to say, I’ve been disillusioned recently seeing this myth pop up in every comments section on any jayvik-related content, that we have a lack of male friendship in media (we don’t, we have a lack of male friendship that isn’t queer coded to super turbo gay hell and back in media). I was even more disillusioned seeing the exact same rhetoric being spewed by those involved with WWDITS, which is ironically a show jam packed full of close male friendships THAT INVOLVE CASUAL SEX. The call was truly coming from inside the coffin on that one.

So, unexpectedly and somewhat depressingly, swan queen and OUAT have been a balm for the soul in the midst of all this. No queerbaiting (at least not where I’m up to), just good old fashioned straightwashing. At least it’s honest 🤷‍♀️

[doctor-mccoys-sanity]

what did you do growing up if it wasn’t reading Soulmate AUs where people had the first words the other person said to them marked on their body but one of them was mute so the other thought they didn’t have a soulmate?

[unsaidace]

I’m seeing a hell of a lot of gatekeeping in the fandom lately, people not wanting Sterek/Destiel/Johnlock shippers to watch our show for Buddie or Bi!Buck. Besties…where do you think half of us started? I was a Sterek, Destiel, Johnlock and Merthur shipper long before I was a Buddie shipper. I’m not being funny, but I thought more eyes on our silly little weewoo show was a good thing? It boosts ratings for us, and it gives those who’ve had shitty queer ship experiences (looking at you and your queerbait-y bullshit specifically, Supernatural) a chance to enjoy a well written, strong queer ship that actually stands a chance of going canon. It’s a win for everyone. And even if Buddie never goes canon, we already have another canon queer ship to enjoy in HenRen.

I’ve been in all the fandoms that were painfully disappointed by shoddy writing and obvious queerbaiting. I remember that last season of Supernatural all too fucking well. That’s why, as far as I’m concerned, anyone who wants to come into our fandom and truly appreciate our show is welcome on my blog. This is a safe space for all.

[oobshl00by]

yall go look at my poetry and writing account!!! would be very much appreciated!!! i’m working on a collection of poems and short stories currently and a whole novel in the background. but i’m posting some poems and short stories on here to (i’m so sorry but there’s no other way to say if) spread my wings, if you will (i won’t) 🤢🤮 being a writer is great!!😀 (she says while throwing up at the cringeness of that metaphor)

anywho!!! i’m queer all around ifykyk, i would inject taylor swift into my veins if it was possible, got a sprinkle of adhd on top the mountain of autism, and well i’m on tumblr if that gives you any clue about the entirety of my being. you know who i am just like i know who you are. the first ship i ever followed on this hellsite, well it was rpf so i don’t wanna get in to that shout out to those guys living their best gay life now ifykyk. the other was JOHNLOCK!!!!! then destiel and it was all downhill from there.

basically you know a bit about me and maybe our vibes match. i don’t know man. just go look at them or im gonna be under your bed and lurking in your closet while you sleep. that is a threat and a promise. tee-hee

@oobwordy

[kenzie1alizabeth]

Istg if I get my hopes up for these two and get queerbaited AGAIN (I’m looking at you Destiel and Johnlock) I will break something

[vintage-bentley]

Did you see Tennant's interview with a radio station today? He denied Aziracrow being a thing and pinned it on viewers projecting. Twitter is angryyyyyyy hahaha. Even the gendies are getting nervous and pissed off with Neil, bringing up Johnlock and saying they're going to lose it if they've been baited. I've seen way more of that than the usual "trust Neil" and "they're ace/undefined and that's okay!" People are getting seriously upset and saying it's textbook queerbaiting and that it doesn't count if it's up for interpretation. There are more tweets saying they think the leak is a fakeout or bait-and-switch now too. If it is then it explains Neil's panic and anger but also he will be fuuuuuuccckkkked 😂 that might also explain Michael looking so weird when he called them buddies. He's very online so he'd be feeling the pressure of the fandom's expectations.

There’s something really frustrating about a straight man who likely has no understanding of the weight of gaybaiting, who’s never had to experience not seeing himself represented on screen and being played with like this, saying this. Straight couples never get treated this way. They never get left “up for interpretation” and they’re never “just projecting”. We still are not in a time where we’re getting regular good representation of healthy gay couples (that is made for LGB people, not fetishy straight people). Meaning we are not yet in a time where it’s okay for potential gay couples to be treated this way. It’s not a good thing that this couple is being left up for interpretation and that they’re undefined. It’s a result of homophobia.

I interpreted the “best buddy” thing as a “gals being pals” type jest, like an inside joke… but Tennant’s interview is making me nervous. In true clown fashion I’m still hoping that the vagueness might be a result of a no spoiler rule. And this might just have been an awkward attempt on Tennant’s end to not spoil things. But it’s also possible that everyone on the team knows there’s no romance, knows that fans want romance, and are getting nervous about the backlash.

It’s just crazy to me that after things like Destiel and Johnlock getting so big, gaybait is still happening. You’d think creators would’ve learned by now that this isn’t okay. ESPECIALLY creators who wave around GLAAD awards.

I’m glad that the fandom is starting to catch on, though. I think that the leak is either the best or worst thing to happen to GO and Neil. If there’s romance and it’s not baiting, then the leak is the best thing that happened because it’ll drive attention to the show, and I’m sure it’ll fuel discussions like “omg remember when we were nervous about this?”. If it is baiting though…I can see it being the absolute worst thing to happen to both the show and Neil, because people will be rightfully angry about baiting and be angry at him for not calming down the excitement before people were disappointed (as I’ve said before, all it would take from him is a simple “before anyone gets too excited, just know that second long clip is out of context. Wait and see”. Not saying anything makes it seem like this is real…so if it isn’t, he’s going to get backlash).

[ajamlessbaby]

Tag Game: tag people you want to get to know better. 🖤

Tagged by: @grimmfitzz I’m sorry for being so late, work got to me 🥺

Three Ships: Ronance, Steddie, SuperCorp (the one that got away!)

First Ship Ever: Omg, so like embarrassing or not, Johnlock (it’s a tie with Destiel tbh) but I was 13 and reading the SH books and was like … hmmmm, this friendship feels a bit different than all of mine, sir.

Last song: Fall Out Boy - Love from the Other Side will be all you hear me listen to until the album drop 🤭 to add someone else haha, Girls Like You by Anna Clendening is exquisitely queer and I love it!

Last film: I bit the bullet and finally watched Free guy. No thoughts, just vibes but in the best possible way. Also how do Jodie Comer and Joe Keery have such insane chemistry in like the last 30 seconds???

Currently Reading: Murder Isn’t Easy by Carla Valentine which looks at how Agatha Christie utilised forensics and knowledge of criminology to write her mystery novels.

Currently watching: The Christmas Prince trilogy on Netflix, honestly it’s the most comforting nonsensical trash I’ve seen and it’s marvellous. 😤 It’s my fourteenth rewatch and by now I know all the lines.

Currently consuming: ✨Butter toast✨ - just like 70% of my food consumption last week. It’s my depression food since it’s quick but also like it’s good???? It’s warm and salty and you can put jam on if you are feeling adventurous, idk there’s something about it.

Currently craving: Poached eggs (on toast, on rice, with avocado, any way really). Just want some with English Breakfast tea.

Tags: No pressureee @steviesbicrisis @navnae @itsfreakingbats @pancakewithamace @alleiwentcrazy @eyeslikewildflowers111 💗💗💗

[tinytaako]

has queer representation in media gotten 100x better? yes

will i still torture myself over all my comfort ‘never gonna happen’ ships? sadly yes

[kamwashere]

destiel and johnlock being semi-canon in the span of two years feels like a pattern somehow

[dorian-they]

Attention Fanfic Writers:

PLEASE stop using the phrase “You’ll be the death of me” in flirtatious moments where one character was LITERALLY (or very nearly) the death of the other. This has happened to me more times than I’d care to admit...

Me: *happily reading fluffy/smutty content*

Character: Ohh you’re going to be the death of me, I just know it *wink*

My useless brain: OH YEAH HAHA REMEMBER THAT? WHEN THAT PERSON TOTALLY FUCKIN DIED & THE OTHER ONE WAS LITERALLY THE DEATH OF THEM?? LOL YEAH HAHA GOOD TIMES 🤪

Seriously. I. Am. BEGGING. You.

Stahp ✨

[tastywormfood]

I see ppl being excited about the last scene where jopper and jancy stands holding hands with byler in the middle, but I just can’t. After all this I don’t trust them anymore. I don’t trust they have any intention in making byler canon or giving Will a happy ending. This is Supernatural and Sherlock all over again. For all the byler shippers who still have hope, I’m glad you do. But there’s no way they can save their relationship and somehow make byler canon with out it being weird as fuck, and having Eleven heartbroken.

They were queerbaiting us from the beginning to end. Just like Sherlock. Just like supernatural. Remember how they kept implying johnlock after John got married to Mary? And even after she died? Remember how they kept implying destiel was mutual for all those years? Just to have Cas sacrifice himself for someone (who in the script) couldn’t reciprocate? Yeah that’s what this is.

Idk why I had hope for two cishet white men to write a genuinely good childhood friends to lovers story about internalized homophobia in the 80’s. They were so close to make Mike such a relatable character and to really make a meaningful relationship, but instead they made him a fucking asshole that was cold and ignored his best friend after a year of not seeing him. I genuinely think Finn wanted more, and not just this. His acting was too much on point for it to just be asshole behavior.

The spoon fed us fucking byler content for the entirety of pride month, cause they knew if they did all the hopeful queers would be sitting waiting the moment vol 2 came out. We all fucking fell for it. Cause you know, maybe this time, maybe this show won’t treat us like garbage, maybe this show will proof to us that we can find love and don’t deserve to sad, alone and a plot device for the main straight couple.

You know even the fucking leaks where better than this!! The leak about Mike confessing to El but looking at Will? It would’ve been bad, but it would’ve given us something. I’m trying not to be disappointed in Noah, he doesn’t deserve hate for hyping byler up as much as he did, and I genuinely think he takes us seriously and want byler to happen, but I’m just so tired. I’m so tired of straight actors who play queer characters thinking that smallest fucking crumbs covered in mud from being stepped on is good enough to keep is satisfied, they think as long as there is representation we will be happy. BUT THEY COULDN’T EVEN SAY IT. They couldn’t even have a scene where Will comes out. They just had him cry. Noah give it his all, and his acting this season was incredible, he should be proud. The duffer brothers should not.

I had such high hopes, but I am so done with this show.

[adiarosefandoms]

Potential Pride Posts

These are some of the ships I can do Pride posts on. If you comment one you’d like to see I can make a point to do it, otherwise I’ll just do whatever will fit into the month.

Destiel- Dean Winchester and Castiel Cherik- Charles Xavier and Erik Lensherr Malec- Magnus Bane and Alec Lightwood (canonically gay + bi) Reddie- Richie Tozier and Eddie Kaspbrack  Wolfstar- Remus Lupin and Sirius Black Grindeldore- Gellert Grindelwald and Albus Dumbledore Johnlock- Sherlock and John Watson Batlantern- Batman (Bruce Wayne) and Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) PoisonQuinn- Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn (confirmed LGBTQIA) Deadpool-... no explanation

Also, looking at this list I clearly need to get to know more femslash ships, so I’m eager for fandom recs with female ships present.

[zenon-karr]

Just was thinking about how our anti posts for Melville are never ever intended to be aimed at making milkvans change their minds! They’re for us analyzing byler!! They’re for people who already agree not for those who disagree!! Nobody is really being just a melvin hater. I think we all can’t stand the homophobic shippers more than the actual ship Itself. The issue isn’t they ship it over byler it’s the fact /they/ have issues with us analyzing contrary to their ship. And rather than just saying they think Melville is endgame they have to be homophobic about it towards those who think byler is endgame despite the fact they were more popular before s4. They try to convince US rather than our anti minivan posts are for us not for them! This person aimed entire analysis against byler endgame TO us to make us feel delusional when all we been doing is just be excited. It’s be different if people were harassing Noah or sth and that the motive. But nobody was doing this so it just come across annoying and rude. That why we think antis are homophobic because you antagonize us just for analyzing byler is endgame. You can think it’s not endgame on your own space and that doesn’t make you homophobic obviously but when you aim it at us it comes off so homophobic and rude. I’m not sure if these posters were Melville but it’s almost same logic at this point like if you’re just antagonizing queer shippers for shipping it and calling them delusional it’s p homophobic to me. It’s different if it’s in response to people acting poorly but we’re just antagonizing for people shipping and hoping for endgame - how can you not see how it comes across??? We don’t care about the ancient queer baiting ships that were huge before any chars were even confirmed queer. Our ship got big coz they confirmed Will is in love with Mike and because and it’s open ended how Mike feels. END OF!!

In the end of the day, exterior positive or negative commentary by cast and crew for byler don’t matter unless it’s them saying explicitly no as a matter of fact - see johnlock and destiel. (I’m johnlock so not anti). However nothing in the show said how Mike feels. Loving another character does NOT say they don’t love also another see Archie with Betty and Veronica (comic or riverdale) this what I love triangle IS! I saw byler in s2 so I’m confident since then coz there’s no reason to show a close shot of Mike’s hand touching Will’s a la:

Anyway enjoy Mike reciprocating Will’s love:

At the end of the day even anti Melville meta doesn’t matter or blue meets yellow in the west analysis - what does matter is simple stuff like they’ve set up a love triangle. It’s common sense that it’s reciprocated whether Mike is gay or bi! It doesn’t matter most love triangles have one party who loves more than one person or is dating another. Archie literally said he loved Betty and Veronica in one season of Riverdale and is always in comics can’t decide between them! It’s not unrealistic or delusional to think Mike and Will is requited even if the monologue is genuine! They also set it up like benverly she thought the poem was from Bill so she loved him till she realized the poem was from Ben and you can say his weight is parallel with Will being queer and they both would think there’s 0 chance their love is requited and it was because the poem and painting act a representation of loving a person for who they are not what they look like or gender etc. anyway bylers I love you! Sorry we had to see so much anti takes in one day. ✨💚

[all-my-fandom-obsessions]

I usually dislike it when people try to make straight/not-gay characters gay and twist friendship between two men into “they’re so gay” because I love friendships and I really believe that close platonic friendship between two men should be normalised, so seeing people ship Merthur (Merlin), Johnlock (Sherlock), House and Wilson (House M.D.), Derek and Stiles (Teen wolf) and many others - it annoys me. Because it’s not canon and canonically they aren’t in love with eachother so it feels like people are looking for something that isn’t there. And I don’t like that. I mean I’m all for gay couples in tv shows, but when they’re canon, like Malec (Shadowhunters) or Coliver (HTGAWM). So when I found out about Destiel before watching the show I thought it’s one of those situations - when characters aren’t in love but the viewers are trying to make them that way. And then I watched the show and like… Dean is so clearly in love with Castiel and I ship Destiel so much (I’m only talking about Dean because that’s the part that never became canon). I don’t know if Jensen Ackles was fully aware that that’s the way he portrayed Dean but yeah, that’s the way it is. But I also remember Dean saying multiple times he’s not interested in men (“I don’t swing that side” and all that). And it bothers me. So so far I’ve came up with two explanations: either Dean is heterosexual but biromantic or he’s just bi and him saying he’s not into gays is just bi panic and denial or whatever. And I’m so pissed at the creators of the show because of the way they ended things. I mean seriously? The ending was awful. I don’t care if you wanted Dean to be straight, he’s not, so would you please acknowledge that and also go to hell for never giving us a proper Destiel ending? I just wanted to see them as a couple but I would’ve been fine with Dean admitting his feelings that would’ve been enough but all I got was they both died? Are you kidding me?!

I don’t know where I was going with this, I just needed to vent.

Now, I know that my post mentioned a lot of things and I should write more about some of them and you may want to argue with me about some of the other couples and try to convince me that they are canon or something and if you’d like to talk - don’t hesitate to message me. However if you’re just angry at me: I have so much more to say and explain but I’m just too tired to write it all down.

[thatgaywizardoverthere]

Hello, my magical friendos! For my upcoming dissertation, I am researching the relationship between fanfiction and concepts such as personal identity and belonging and I need your help! I’m looking to recruit people 18+ years old who read and/or write queer fanfiction about characters who are not explicitly queer in the source material (y’all know what I’m talking about: Destiel, Merthur, Geraskier, Johnlock, Ineffable Husbands, etc.) and conduct private online interviews to hear your thoughts.

In other words, if you’ve been hyperfixated on Merthur since 2008 (so basically anyone who follows me lol) or recently celebrated Destiel’s wedding because canon is a social construct, this is the study for you!

If you’re 18+ years old and a reader and/or writer of queer fanfiction that centers around non-canon queer characters, please let me know if you’re interested in being interviewed by leaving a comment! In your comment please list whether you identify as a reader or a writer (obviously there will be overlap, but run with what you think is most accurate) and I’ll be DMing people to provide more information and schedule interviews until I reach capacity.

Looking forward to talking with you, friends!!! Reblog the hell out of this to spread the gay!!!

[owlmylove]

Ok so as someone who has never seen an episode of Supernatural in their life but understands a lot of references/whatnot from living through superwholock tumblr, can you explain what happened with destiel? I don't know what to google :/

as someone who has also never seen an episode of Supernatural but was slowly poisoned by the smog of secondhand fandom back in the 20-teens, I’ll do my best babe!!

Castiel apparently made some sort of deal with some sort of entity (??) that, if he was ever happy, he would immediately descend into Super Hell because obvi supernatural has lost all sense of consequences since they jumped the shark in like, season 2 and presumably have spent the last 8 years jumping a veritable Sea World’s worth of meaninglessly dramatic plot twists

anyway, Castiel told Dean he loves him in some of the worst heterosexual acting I have ever seen, somehow (????) felt happy while watching Jensen Ackles look furiously constipated, and then was immediately sucked down a firey hell tube into Super Hell (which feels very Freudian anal fixation 2 me), where gay people go if they dare to be happy for one (1) second

ALSO: the script has since leaked and Dean reportedly “Can Not Reciprocate” so CW rlly just handed us the fastest ever bury your gays speedrun and said “you’re welcome :) :) :)”

this news broke last night while most people were enjoying the bamboo-under-fingernails sensation of refreshing twitter every 5 seconds to check Nevada/Pennsylvania/Georgia results in the U.S. election, and APPARENTLY the New York Post decided this was a good time to come out with a headline that claimed Putin was stepping down as president

natch, the overlap of these 3 events was too much for our tenuous grasp on reality to survive and all hell broke loose. most ppl found out abt the Putin resignation (which has since been denied by the Kremlin) via tweets about destiel “becoming canon” (which has since been disproven by the script) and we all collectively took a tab of cultural LSD and astral-projected back to 2012

now johnlock apologists are apparently crossing their fingers (I think they’re getting a new season in 2022? because yeah sure why the fuck not) and i’m looking over my shoulder every 5 minutes in case the fucking once-ler rises again

soooooo thats what you missed last time on glee <3