#i was so into gaming up until a little after totk came out and i got too busy with school to care anymore. lowkey insane how im not more

[idlingsomewhere]

new switch announcement got me confused and afraid of the passage of time

[uinferno]

I made a previous post about the nature of the Zelda timeline, but thinking back, how it all came together is very amusing.

Now "The fans care more about the timeline than Nintendo does" and "Nintendo never developed the games with a timeline in mind" are both true. However, that doesn't mean "all Zelda games are wholly unrelated and irrelevant to each other." Unfortunately, the reality of the matter is that Nintendo developed each game with one other game in mind and only one other game, and so by pure proxy all games naturally fall into a timeline despite the fact the people putting Echoes of Wisdom together didn't give Spirit Tracks much thought.

It's sort of a "proof by induction" kind of deal. Adventure of Link was deliberately written as a sequel to Zelda 1. A Link to the Past was developed as a prequel to Zelda 1. Links Awakening as a sequel to ALttP. Ocarina of Time as a prequel to ALttP (fleshing out backstory in its manual). Majora's Mask was a clear sequel to OoT. For the first 15-ish years a Prequel-Sequel pairing pattern was followed. When Oracles and Four Swords games were done, they didn't fit super neatly with the "main timeline," but they were also not made by Nintendo (they're Capcom games save for Four Swords Adventures but that springboarded off of Capcom's Zeldas).

Then, continuing, Wind Waker explicitly recounts Ocarina of Time in its prologue. Twilight Princess explicitly discusses Ocarina of Time's child ending after Arbiter's Grounds. Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks both explicitly refer to Wind Waker. Then, along comes Skyward Sword, the game developed with the entire Zelda franchise in mind. Paired with Hyrule Historia, giving us the modern timeline we know.

A Link Between Worlds is an explicit follow-up to A Link to the Past. Triforce Heroes is its funky little sibling. Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are the only ones that are truly unmoved by the other games. Hell, TotK is pretty unmoved by BotW too. All things considered, they're close to the exception rather than the rule.

The nature of the Zelda Timeline is neither super developed and rigid in its structure like more straightforward game franchises, nor is it apathetic of its kin, like Mario or Final Fantasy. It's a sprawling web where time and again, the developers take a dangling thread from one game to weave their own tapestry until at the end of it they made a fucked up, hyperbolic quilt with 5 squares to a vertex. You can't actually cut it out as they're pretty securely interwoven, but it's not going to lay flat either.

[sable-skies]

thought abt an au i doodled up months ago but never fully explored, so here's some concept designs for that. im gonna ramble about it now

+ height comparison under the keep reading!

god okay i gotta admit: i, unfortunately, kinda love game of thrones. truthfully i dont care for the sex and inc*st part of the show, but i really enjoy the interconnected weaving plot lines, drama, and utter bullshit that happens in that show. its amazing, i love it, its so fucking stupid. so earlier this year i doodled up some ideas for a game of thrones inspired post-totk au. those are here, and here!

I then dropped it and didnt return to it until now, because i started season 2 of house of the dragon and yknow. why not.

as for actual details about the au: i said in the past it was a got-loz au, but im gonna go ahead and say that i misspoke then because i mean more like, post-totk/loz au INSPIRED by got, because i would never want to do a 1-to-1 au of that god awful show. i mostly think exploring a hyrule that is peaceful, but secretly on the brink of civil chaos and how bad humanity could truly get would be really fun to explore!

i struggled to pick a single role for link to have in such an au, so i said fuck it and divided him up into four parts, in universe the hero's spirit has been split amongst four brothers. to nod towards this, and because i'm cheeky as hell, the first letters of each of their names spells link. Laurent, Irving, Nymos, and Kiran. (im so fucking funny (<- is not funny))

they're all noble born to Arthur Hearth, current lord of House Hearth which basically controls and sits on the Great Plateau, and their mother was Eyla, a member of the Sheikah from Kakariko Village who unfortunately passed away shortly after Kiran was born. Arthur btw is named after the King Arthur legends from Europe, as those served as inspiration for the series in general!

I think a plot would follow them all after the death of their father and how they cope with it and move forward, and how they combat suddenly being labeled traitors to the kingdom for their father's acclaimed crimes.

this is getting long, so I'll do some misc bullet points next on their personalities:

Laurent, as the oldest, had to mature pretty quickly after the death of their mother, Eyla. Which has caused him to grow protective of his younger brothers almost to an overbearing degree. He gets nervous when they're not home, which sucks because Irving is a knight, Nymos studies in Kakariko often, and Kiran wants to explore the world via the survey team. Other then that, he's responsible, quite serious in most situations, and still very kind hearted. After his father's death he starts to spiral into a rage-filled depression, determined to get his brothers back and make the king pay for killing his father.

Irving is the most middle child ever. Due to Laurent being in line for lord of their house and is never gonna back down from that, he sought his own purpose in being a royal knight / royal guardsman / kingsguard. It hasn't really worked out well for him honestly, his higher ups hate him for being Arthur's son, seemingly so naturally talented in combat, and charismatic amongst the ranks that some knights ignore their orders just to follow Irving's instead. So as punishment he's been assigned as the former princess Zelda's bodyguard / retainer. While it disappointed him to not serve his full duties at first, he's come to accept it and treats her kindly. He's proud, a little over-confident, just, and secretly a bleeding heart. After the death of their father, he's forced to choose between his family and Zelda, and knowing that Zelda will most likely die without him, he stays with her.

Nymos, oh poor fucking Nymos dude. As a child he fell into the depths and somehow survived, which was fine, but then he came across a patch of gloom that seemingly never faded, and ever since he's been cursed with doomed visions of the future and a talent for magic. No one believes him about the lingering gloom, and claims that he simply has PTSD from the incident in general, but he knows what he saw. He's sought out magical-based physical therapy in Kakariko because of this, and he's pretty much regarded as a local there. He's quiet, a bit withdrawn, pessimistic, but has a strong sense of justice and genuinely wants the best for those around him, even if he doesn't know how to say it properly. When Laurent and Irving are away, he's the one looking after Kiran and keeping him safe. When his father dies, he immediately starts to investigate the current monarchy for signs of dark magic tampering, which leads him down a rabbit hole he never even knew existed, all the while he's being tormented by visions of his brother dying gruesome and horrible deaths. he's forever an internal nervous WRECK

Kiran!! The baby!! Might be the most dangerous brother of the four, but we'll cover that later. As the resident youngest sibling he's naturally gotten away with pretty much everything and anything, because who can say no to those big baby blues. Thankfully he's not actually that destructive or ill-mannered, but he isn't above pulling a prank on someone for the fun of it. He yearns to leave home and explore the vast continent of Hyrule though, and shortly before everything goes wrong he's accepted into the Survey Team and gets to enjoy it for a bit. He's excitable, energetic, optimistic, and somewhat a handful (get this teen a child leash please) but he means well and is determined to get whatever is on his mind done and finished. He's the last to be told his father is dead as his team didn't tell him about the incident until suddenly there's a group of bandits attacking them and demanding they had Kiran over for ransom. Kiran goes willingly of course, as he doesn't want his team members to get hurt. He later falls into the depths and survives via the sail cloth around his shoulders and meets a strange little fox he calls Todd.

I have so many notes in my head about these guys but again, i'll shut up for now :] here are the heights!

btw; they're all based on a previous incarnation of link and a got character, if you figure it out I'll shake ur hand.

[a-person-whos-alive]

Why TotK fails Zelda

Heads up, this is a long post. Ive cut this down like a motherfucker but it still reads very long. My thoughts are divided into four main categories;

1. Her relationship with her magic & tech

2. Her relationship with Hyrule

3. Her relationship with Link

4. Her relationship with the player

Also, these are my opinions, I'm certain there are people with far better analysis skills than me! I am just in love with this franchise and a little disappointed with the recent game. Zelda as a character holds a special place in my heart and its sad that her character was done dirty like this.

Theres a TLDR at the end and before I forget, SPOILERS!!!

1. Her relationship with her magic & tech

Zelda is not someone who magic came easily to, and I think BotW & AoC did a great job exploring that. They contrasted her natural interest with the sheikah technology and her lack of power and it was 😘👌

How did TotK do? With the Zonai tech being the main selling point, how would Zelda, a scholar at heart, interact with it? To my memory, the only interaction she has is to put Mineru's soul into a piece of Sheikah tech and hand it to a construct.

Well what about magic? Finding out she has light AND time powers was at first a great throwback to OoT with the Sage of Time. The fact that her Time magic awakened immediately unlike the Light magic in the last game was a nice contrast. But then, she immediately has a similar dilemma, she can't USE her magic to propel herself forward because she doesnt know how. Unlike BotW though, she has the "mother" she was lacking to teach her. This was a decent set-up. It was different enough to be its own thing but still was familiar enough. This is up to memory 4 - Mineru's Council

The issue the NEXT MEMORY, memory 5 - Gerudo Assualt shows her being even more proficient than Sonia. We don't see her train, or struggle, or even ask a question about how the stone works. She just does. It's not until memory 8 do we see her get any guidance about her powers? And even then we don't see her attempt recall at all. In the next memory she simply uses it perfectly and effortlessly.

The purpose of her strengthening Time Magic was to get back home. Yet, she gets back home by swallowing a sacred stone, that she already had the ability to do at any point. She turns into the LIGHT dragon, using her LIGHT magic to strengthen the Master Sword. Her whole arc about her magic was pointless because in the end she used the powers from the previous game for everything important.

2. Her relationship with Hyrule

Positives first! Its clear that Zelda loves her people, and during the 7? year gap she obviously took the time to connect with them and problem solve. Penn's quest really demonstrates this, and so does the Hateno school quest. (Even if the children don't believe in the Calamity). I found it very endearing that the people had such faith in her, that even with Ganondorf causing havoc with her face, people refused to believe it. The Great Fairies MUST have seen wrong because it was dark, Dorephan MUST have been mistaken, the Stable Trotters MUST have seen someone else - Zelda wouldn't do that.

I additionally liked that Zelda wasn't immediately trying to set up a monarchy again. In fact, she seemed to be doing the opposite. She wasn't living in Central Hyrule, at Looking Landing, she was living in Hateno. She was a teacher, and on some level a researcher (even if the Don Dons were scrapped ideas from the first trailer).

But the second she goes to the past, she is put back in her box. Her interests in tech are non-existant, she does not interact with anyone who isn't royalty, the King doesn't listen to her about Ganondorf and tells her to not to worry - after all she's just supposed to wear that white dress and hope her magic works soon. She's regressed back to before the Calamity, waiting for something terrible she knows is coming and is powerless to stop.

Crucially, she doesn't speak to Ganondorf once.

This is by far the most egregious waste of their characters in my opinion, and I've just deleted a 3 paragraph Ganondorf discussion - another time. But come on! This is legitimately the PERFECT scenario for Zelda to find about about WHY people opposed her royal family, WHY everyone she's ever loved died in Calamity caused by this guy, WHY she's had to go through all this. But no, if they did talk, it wasn't on screen.

Ive seen in translations of parts of one of the interviews with a developer saying she was able to see what a ruler should be like by going to the past, but until a see an official source I'm going to hope that's not true

3. Her relationship with Link

"Link is still entrusted with the role of protecting Princess Zelda." - Hidemaro Fujibayashi https://www.npr.org/2023/09/13/1199307678/zelda-tears-of-the-kingdom-dlc-video-game. Maybe I'll write a post about Link sometime, but I'm focusing on just him and Zelda.

Whether you ship the two or not, the pair would obviously have a unique bond from both fighting the Calamity and losing the Champions/everyone. So, how did the pair cope with the destruction of everything the love? How did Zelda come to terms with the ruins of Castle Town, the harsh reality of all those who were dead? Zelda doesn't have Link's amnesia to temporarily soften the inital blow.

TotK explores none of this.

Similarly, there is a level of formality on how Zelda speaks of Link. When she tells Rauru of Link she starts, "He is a royal knight. He had been originally appointed for my protection, but later he became a hero by saving both me and Hyrule from a great evil". Not "he and I became close" or even "he became my friend". Zelda is talking to the two people closest to her right now,

All their interactions are the bare minimum.

Link has ALWAYS been a self insert for the player, but he's still a character, and more recently Nintendo has been acting like having emotions means a player can't project onto them. Zelda is Link's closest person, and when she returns he is piece of cardboard, at least help her up!

4. Her relationship with the player

First, as everyone who played BotW will know, many things were removed or changed in TotK to allow it to be standalone for new players. Sheikah tech was removed, important characters forgot Link, the majority of the last game was rarely if ever mentioned. Kass

However TotK does not properly establish Link and Zelda for new fans AND doesnt not elaborate for old fans. They interact twice until the end - the intro and memory 1. All of her characterisation is in that little history moment, the rest of it is 50% sacred power lore and 50% time power lore. Additionlly, anyone who is new to the game has no context for her light powers.

Actually, TotK literally retcons her light magic to be from Rauru and not Hylia. Which was the WHOLE POINT of BotW so great sequelling there guys.

TLDR: The Conclusion

Wow, you made it this far. Or you skipped to end, I would too. My main gripes with Zelda:

> She doesn't interact with Zonai Tech.

> Her arc is about learning time power to go home, only for her to not use said magic and instead use the light magic from the last game to fix the sword and be a light dragon.

> Having her worries about Ganondorf shot down by the King and not holding her ground/ insisting (did you learn nothing from Rhoam??)

> never interacting with Ganondorf him being in Hyrule as a diplomat

> nintendos approach to her and link, they dont once touch while both conscious. Not even a handshake or pat on the shoulder. See images above with prev. Zelda and Link.

> the instance on making it not complicated for accessibility to new players, but also not fleshing it out enough to be compelling on its own.

[achoshistor]

ffxv

i just finished ffxv like last night (more like early this morning...) but lowkey i was too depressed to go through the dlc. this was really sad.

SPOILERS (MAIN story didnt open it back up to ch 15 yet)

i think if you are a #loyal fan then you read that last post where i meant to play this game originally. lowkey i liked this better than the remake even though everyone else hates on it. i think after going through the game's history the ending did feel a little rushed so i didnt feel the exact same sadness i did with ccr but i nearly shed a tear at that ending. IMO this game really had a lot of potential, like i don't understand the complaints about the open world. like u hear botw is great an all but it has the exact same "issues" tbh—i have it in quotes bc ofc the open world is going to be a little bit more empty—if you go outside everything will be empty too?? and i mean like at least just about every structure in this game has a side quest tied to it, while botw/totk leave SOOO many mysteries and have such a strange connection between the lore; this one just has too much for you to think about it in detail. like compared to ff7r there feels like more in ffxv too, ive got like 50hr in xv compared to my barely 30 in remake. though afaik rebirth is open world (sale was only $48 too expensive for license only will review when it goes 50% off ish) and the original by technicalities is as well and really this game kind of feels like a precursor to ff7r. like theres an anime, a movie, and a novel too but SO much cancelled content (which apparently was cancelled bc the director left on "good"(BAD) terms with sqenix and the team and budget were moved over to some other game) like i watched one of the old trailers right after finishing the game and lowkey now I'M pissed off on Tabata's behalf like the only reason this went to essentially shit is due to tabata's corporate opps... did they not pay attention to shinra at all?? i heard xvi and rebirth did NAWT sell well (obvs in part cause they were ps exclusive) and that i say is tabatas curse.... like ?/?. off topic but i saw that evil cs major again. i think we made eye contact. MY fault for going outside (it was an omen). back to topic at hand im looking at tabatas works (includes ff7cc) and honestly afaik these have a totally different feel from the other guy's (nomura idk) work like i think i dont have anymore to say on this topic but i have more to say

ffxv feels soooo American like maybe its just cuz of cindy (speaking of im kind of surprised they didnt just rate the game M) & i remember back in 2016/17 when the game came out it was so hyped up and for good reason cuz its open world but with a car. i feel like the game is car centric (just like american society!!) and like even when its not you get to see these huge big cities like altissia (felt like i was playing infinity nikki there lol) or insomnia or even lestallum but the game again really just gets cut short at Nibelheim (Nifelheim??) and the relationship with the bros gets explored really deeply. the thing with that though is the relationship with luna does not.... like prompto and noct have better chemistry than noct/luna (tbf luna was the one that set them up). i feel like though you need to see the companion media to experience the full game, like when i got to insomnia i lowkey dgaf until i watched brotherhood (im inspired by prompto) bc you see all of the bros with noct and it kind of just sets in how bad its really gotten for Lucis (speaking of, the map is unfinished?? there seems to be a region next to insomnia + insomnia is on the base map looking regular so i wonder if there was gonna be more... same with altissia bc you can get to altissia and the main continent directly but not nifelhiem) bc lowkey the game doesn't really set it in for you. not that big of a deal though especially since 7 has the same issue.

anyways my mind is lowkey like two marbles clacking around rn and i know i wanted to say something but im forgetting what so that will be in a later post (when i finish dlc). thanks (sorry) for coming to my ted talk

[candy8448]

Idea:

The amber relics from sksw are the secret tears (really shoulda called it that because of the name of the game and secret stone sounds so stupid)

Not a theory exactly but just a cool idea with zero evidence to back it up

So to explain this, i kinda gotta get my hc on the timeline out of the way:

So the tineline is normal to how we've seen it before totk, at some point before the first calamity 10,000 years ago, the timelines re merged, and in this event destroyed the kingdom of hyrule, way more destroyed than even the downfall tineline to the point where there is almost no evidence it existed (maybe it was the fault of the downfall timelime or the flooded adult timeline, maybe its because none of the hyrules match so they just could not work) many forevers later, the zonai, perhaps a rememnant of the remaining skyloftians to stayed in the sky who just evolved differently due to their different environments, maybe a different race entirely, concealed by perhaps a new or the original cloud barrier come down and restore hyrule, rary and sonia not being aware that there was a kingdom before it. The events of totk past happen and it continues to the botw events.

So my theory, the amber relics (and maybe dusk relics) were somehow made into the secret stones.

No evidence backing this up, just fun idea. They are similar looking things and precious and rare. They also have a hole where the magic rune things on the secret stones are.

Maybe they are a combination of the two, and why there are only about 7 now because no one can return to the silent realm to get more. Maybe they just merged over time until there are only 7, maybe a combination of both.

But the length of the tineline is an awful lot of time for it to adapt and change is it not?

Amber relics already come in two different colours, maybe they changed into more?

Secret stones enhance ones existing power, amber relics are used to upgrade items and make the scattershot shoot multiple even if its just upgraded from amber and dusk relic and some jelly blob. Ignore that im not thinking about any other item, as i said this is a no logic, neat little idea

Some time while raru and sonia were building the new kingdom of hyrule they found these changed amber relics somewhere in the depths. The dusk relic in the amber relic had almost kinda lead it to the depths where it could stay in the dusk maybe. When they were exploring the depths and also made it their home, they discovered the 7 of these precious remaining stones and sensed a great power from them, and kept them, finding out what they do

Its just sometging that i was thinking about when we first saw them in the trailers

(Also notice how the star fragments look so much like gratitude crystals and they fall out of the sky??? Remaining skyloft residents??????)

Note: this has been in my drafts forever, since a while after totk came out. I just forgot about it

[cutebutalsostabby]

iirc you said in another post that the time between ALTTP and OOT was either 80 or 400 years. i haven’t played ALTTP yet but love timelines - are those numbers in the game somewhere?

I think I came up with those specific figures myself, BUT I do have some in-game and official text basis for them! The reason for the 80 year vs 400 years (or even longer) options is that there is actually some pretty big inconsistency between a) various parts of the game itself, b) the official game booklet, and c) Nintendo's big ole retcon of the Imprisoning War. Or possibly retCONS if we count TotK.

(Idk if you wanted an info dump, but you're getting one lol. THANKS FOR THE ASK!! 💜)

SO. The intro cutscene.

We start by hearing of legends from long ago, about a Golden Power that resides in a hidden land. Many people tried to find it; none ever returned. One day, evil power began to flow forth (we later learn this was due to Ganondorf finding the Triforce), so the King told the sages (originally translated as "Wise Men") to seal the Golden Land away for good. The narrator then describes those events as occurring so long ago that they became legend. Sounds like a while, right?

But then within about an hour or two of gameplay, you meet Sahrasrahla. Sahasrala? Saharasala? YOU MEET MR SALSA. And he ends up telling you a story about the knights that fought to protect the sages and who were almost all killed at the time, leaving YOU, the protagonist, as the last known member of that bloodline. According to Mr Salsa, those events took place only three or four generations ago.

That's not long at all! I mean, the exact numbers may vary depending on whether it's 3-4 generations from Salsa-san's point of view or Link's, as well as whether we give that person a human lifespan or an elf one (ALTTP has some Western fantasy elements, but the later games suggest that Hylians are basically just humans with pointy ears), but that would be where my ~80 years figure came from.

One of the later bits of dialogue then mentions Ganondorf rediscovering the Golden Land after the knowledge of it was lost - which may explain the discrepancy between the intro cutscene and Sahasralah(?)'s own dialogue. (I'm taking screenshots from Youtube FYI - see cutscene compilation here.)

All good so far?

WELP. THEN WE HAVE THE GAME BOOKLET.

By "game booklet" I mean the little brochure thing that used to come with physical games up until someone decided they weren't necessary. Boo and bah humbug. But I digress.

The original booklet for ALTTP, which you can find online, says that the Imprisoning War took place centuries ago. It also adds a bunch of other new lore details, including Ganondorf's last name, Dragmire - which never actually appears in-game. Both of those things are however missing from the truncated lore dump you get in the Gameboy Advance release's booklet:

And then there's Nintendo's Fallen Hero retcon. Lol.

See, the original "Imprisoning War" from ALTTP went something like this:

Ganondorf found an entrance to the Sacred Realm (formerly "Golden Land") and went in. Much like the others before him, he was then stuck there forever. UNLIKE the others before him however, he then randomly stumbled across the Triforce, which offered him the power to make a wish.

He made some unspecified wish along the lines of "I want to take over the world". As a result, the Sacred Realm became the Dark World and started to leak evil magic and demons into the Light World (aka "Overworld").

The knights fought against the demons, allowing the sages to seal the entrances ro the Sacred Realm. Note it's unclear if they even knew about Ganondorf's existence at this point.

Sometime later, Ganondorf manages to partially break free, and sends his alter ego Agahnim out to break the seal on the Sacred Realm and merge the two worlds into one.

And then we have Nintendo's retcon, which introduces the whole idea of the Fallen Hero - as a means of clumsily tying ALTTP to Ocarina of Time. So instead of the above:

Ganondorf publicly swears allegiance to the King of Hyrule, only to later backstab him and take over the castle. He then follows Link into the Temple of Time and grabs hold of the Triforce while the latter goes to take a nice long nap. He only manages to claim part of the Triforce (Power), so his wish remains incomplete. The other parts go to Link (Courage) and Zelda (Wisdom).

Seven years later, Link challenges Ganondorf to an epic showdown and loses. Ganondorf claims the remaining parts of the Triforce and uses them to transform into the Demon King. The seven sages, Zelda included, then seal both Ganon and the Triforce away in the Sacred Realm.

The names of the seven sages (per OoT) eventually become the names of the towns in Zelda II. Any remaining discrepancies are handwaved away as unreliable narrators.

Interestingly, TotK's Imprisoning War is much closer to ALTTP's version than Hyrule Historia's - which makes me wonder if that whole retcon is doomed to be retconned once again. Of course, the Triforce isn't present at all within TotK, but it's also a pretty compelling reason for why seven sages with secret stones couldn't win against the one guy with a secret stone. So there’s that.

But yeah, going back to that initial question: no, there's no specific figure provided for the time between the Imprisoning War and events of ALttP. Just depends on which piece of conflicting lore you feel like using lol.

[doktor74]

Recently i remembered that the Happy Mask Salesman appeared in Oracle of Ages and this just spawned a bunch of ideas and theories that i'd like to just dump here:

aight so, i'm sure we're all familiar with the Zelda timeline, OOT being of course where it splits into three (let's ignore BOTW and TOTK for a moment)

HMS (i'm calling the mask salesman this for simplicity) appears in two timelines The Downfall timeline where the Oracle games take place and The Child timeline where Majora's Mask take place in

the origin of Majora's Mask is shrouded in mystery, but we know that it was created by an ancient tribe, and at some point the HMS heard about it and found it

what if the ancient tribe that created Majora's Mask was from Labrynna, that's why the Happy Mask Salesman is there, HMS doesn't really have that big of a role, he's just... there, being hangry then gives you a mask if you give him food, and nothing else, what if this Mask Shop is just a temporary thing he set up while he was out looking for the mask

which brings me to my next ramble, Majora's mask is still out there, the mask is an ancient item that existed before the timeline split and obviously still existed after it, we see it in the Child timeline where it was rediscovered by the HMS until it was stolen by the skull kid then *insert events of Majora's mask* where it was defeated by the Hero of Time, but what about the other timelines?

in the adult timeline, wherever it was hidden away, it's now most likely at the bottom of the ocean after the world was flooded, HMS probably never found it, heck, he probably died during the flood, the legend of Majora's Mask was forgotten and the mask itself lost to history

but as for the downfall timeline where HMS makes an appearance, well as mentioned before, we saw him WHILE he was still looking for the mask in Labrynna, setting up shop along the way, at some point during or after the events of oracle of ages, he most likely found the mask, i like to think things went normally after that, either staying in Labrynna or leaving going from town to town again, no skull kid to steal the mask that almost causes the apocalypse

or maybe something similar like that DOES happen and he's forced to get help from the Hero of Legend again, maybe some kind of sequel that takes place after Link's awakening (the last game where we play as the Hero of Legend)

but WAIT there's more! i've still got more to yap about, in OOT during the time skip and when Ganon took over Hyrule, HMS was nowhere to be found UNTIL the end credits where we see him dancing, meaning he survived, but what did he do during that time? my idea is that he fled to Labrynna because 1. he's familiar with it because he heard that's where Majora is and 2. it's in general relatively close to Hyrule (i mean Link managed to get there)

after Ganon was defeated he went back to Hyrule and did his little dance but if Ganon won (leading into the downfall timeline) he stays in Labrynna where we see him in Oracle of Ages

alright time to talk about BOTW and TOTK, they're their own timeline, apparently the two games are at the very end of the timeline (doesn't matter which three) it takes place so far into the future and that all the events that happened in previous games are considered myths and legends (really puts the "legend" in "legend of zelda")

but somehow after all that time Majora's Mask still exists, which further proves my idea that "Majora's Mask is still out there"

why is it in Hyrule and not Labrynna? simple, a long time has passed and the mask got moved around a lot by different people including HMS

interestingly Majora's Mask also appears in a Link Between Worlds, which takes place in the downfall timeline but after the events that featured the Hero of Legend

anyways that's about it, thank you for listening to me ramble if you got this far, this isn't really meant to be taken seriously as an actual theory but just a bunch of random ideas and headcanons i came up with, the Zelda timeline is just so fascinating, now that the Hero of the Wild's story is finished the next Zelda could be anything honestly not to mention the movie that's coming at some point, i'd be interested to see them experiment with other genres like BOTW and TOTK, like a side scrolling Zelda Metroidvania, that'd be cool

[kozachenko]

So a little while ago I did this background thingy of my interpretation of Hakugyokurou in Touhou 7, then left it at the sketch and forgot about it for a while. Then after changing up my art style a lot, I came back to this and decided to finish it as a way of testing out how my new style would look on backgrounds. Then when I finished it, I also didn't look at it for a while, until today where I decided that I liked it and wanted to post it.

Artist's Notes:

IDK how much this actually looks like Hakugyokurou tbh, but I liked the idea of there being a fuck ton of trees that just kinda grow on the stairs and Yuyuko's garden being on an island of some kind, though tbh as I write this now, this same feeling could be accomplished with just having the stairs be on top of a hill with the trees soooo... oops. IDK how mythologically/lore accurate that would be, but hey, just a cool idea I had. I feel like we need more fan interpretations of certain Touhou locations because I think those could be really fucking cool, like, I should do more of these myself because I have a fuck ton of ideas (plus I need the practice with drawing backgrounds so win-win).

Even if this... doesn't really look like Hakugyokurou in Touhou canon, this was still good practice for perspective, as well as getting better at drawing backgrounds/environment pieces (plus what annoys me is that I wanted to make the tori gate red but had to make it pink because the red was too much for the colour scheme and I should have adjusted the rest of the colours but I don't feel like going back and fucking with this piece now because I feel like I am going to end up like Sisyphus pushing a boulder up a hill with this drawing).

I think the reason we don't see those as often is because there's a lot more consistency with the location designs in Touhou than the character designs. Like, in the mainline games themselves, Marisa's outfit changes every fucking game, and small details in how characters outfits are drawn also lend themselves to that looser character design base. As long as you keep the core design philosophies of the character (i.e. Reimu keeping her loose, baggy clothes, Yukari with her hat and ribbons, Keiki with her headkerchief (I FINALLY LEARNED WHAT IT WAS FUCKING CALLED WOOHOOO!!!! I COULD HAVE JUST LOOKED IT UP ON THE WIKI THIS WHOLE TIME YAAAAAY), and many more examples) you're basically good. However, the actual locations in Touhou have been so set in stone with all the printed works that I think it's a shame we don't see any more variations of how they could look.

I'm not saying to completely ditch how each location is portrayed in games (also don't take this whole thing as me completely dissing the canon looks of the locations) but, treating the locations like character designs in and of themselves. Like, take Sakuya's canon design and her Touhouvania design. Both of them are very different takes on the same design idea. Yet you still recognize Touhouvania Sakuya as... well, Sakuya. And also, keeping the same mythological/historical/irl inspirations for said locations (again, don't know if having a floating island in the Japanese netherworld is accurate but it was a cool idea)

Some other location ideas I have include:

The SDM looking relatively normal from the outside but when you go inside it looks like a fucking gothic cathedral/castle because Sakuya keeps fucking with the space time continuum and there is also an organ the size of a fucking house in there that Sakuya dramatically plays. Also having it be surrounded by trees and having some mountains surrounding the misty lake would be cool as well.

Keiki's base in the animal spirit garden being reminiscent of the ancient technology in Laputa, some of the zonai technology in ToTK and some of the Lanayru desert buildings in Skyward Sword (i.e. Lanayru Mine, the shipyard, etc), as well as a lot of the other ancient technologically advanced sky people ruins seen in some other Zelda games, but with the clear Kofun era theming she already has.

Old Hell having a mix of western influences with it's prodominantly Japanese ones, mainly inspired by how the Palace of Earth spirits looks significantly more western than the rest of Old Hell (though that could be because it was more recently built idk), as well as there being emblems from the time that Old Hell was actually Hell being strewn about in the ruins of old hell, also being inspired by a Japanese historical anecdote about how certain families had specific crests/emblems representing them and how when a new clan would take over everything would be replaced with that families' emblem although my memory is a bit foggy (since I saw it a while ago) and I got info from a Youtube short so take this info with a huge grain of salt (and it anyone actually knows if this info is legit or not, please correct me if I get anything wrong).

Overall, don't think this looks too much like Hakugyokurou, but I am glad I drew this anyway because I needed the practice with drawing backgrounds.

[bigsoftmarshmallow]

Okay, here's another decently long one if that's alright?

I have an idea for a… concept, if you will. I'm thinking an isekai sort of deal. One where it's someone from Earth or from a game that I like called My Time At Sandrock. Doesn't matter which. I’m thinking specifically of OoT, HW, & TotK.

Anyway, one day, this odd, tiny little Hylian woman with ears like his own appears. He observes her from a distance, noting that she seemed confused, but also appeared to be quick to recover. However, instead of making her way towards Hyrule's paradisiacal lands as he'd expected, she almost seemed to be at home in the desert.

He thought little of her initially, not believing that she'd last long, but he would occasionally glance back at her in curiosity.

She began to build things. Odd things. Such as a large stone dome with rectangular holes in the sides & things made of wood & leaves that stuck up from the ground at an angle with a pot beneath the lower side. As well as tools & weapons (which she used to protect herself from the desert monsters). Simple ones, but still.

He noted that she often came to their encampment to barter. Offering her services as one with construction knowledge in exchange for any food that they were willing to part with. Admittedly, she did very good work. But he still didn't trust her. She wasn't one of them.

Then, she began to work the soil. (His feelings? I’m imagining incredulity, but you never know.) At that point, he was fully convinced that the desert had made off with her mind as it had done many others. In the back of his mind, he almost pitied her.

Once, one of his vai wandered over to her little plot of sand, thinking to swipe some of her intriguing items, only to get caught & scolded. (He'd nearly rush in himself.)

Yet she did not harm her. And when his vai returned, it was in confusion with water & dried meats.

She commented that the little foreign vai was odd & spoke just as oddly. She said that they were “neighbors,” so if they needed something, it's polite to ask first. Then, she gave his vai provisions.

Ganondorf found himself agreeing with his thief's assessment. The little vai was odd.

And became odder still as she began to grow cacti of various types around her plot. All surrounded by fences of dried straw. Unusual.

Even odder, she began to plant things at the perimeter.

He also noticed that she could fight. She'd certainly figured out how to take out that lizalfos fairly quickly.

It went on like that for a good long time & all Ganondorf could do was quietly keep infrequent tabs on her as she toiled away day after day.

But then, something strange happened. Slowly, the sandy soil around her plot darkened little by little. It was unnoticeable at first. Eventually, she switched the cacti for Safflina & rosemary. Then, from that to the Spicy Peppers, Hydromelons, & Stambulbs. Which, not necessarily surprising, as all of these things grew in the desert on their own. Though, he'd never seen anyone actively attempt to farm them before.

The things she planted at the perimeter turned out to be Shock Fruit & Dazzlefruit trees. A sort of line of them. Bizarre, because due to a lack of nutrients in the area, they didn’t bear fruit upon maturing. Yet she didn’t get frustrated or cut them down.

But then… Then she began to grow Hylian Tomatoes & Fortified Pumpkins & Swift Carrots to his sudden astonishment. He didn't initially understand how she came across the seeds until he remembered her bartering for some of the spoils that his vaien had stolen from Hyrule's merchants. Had she done all that with just a handful of pilfered goods??

It was at this point that she began to bring her produce & even water to their encampment to sell.

It was… He couldn't understand! What sort of witchcraft was this?? He’d often ask his Vàman, who seemed to be wary of the foreign vai & did not like her at all. They’d only glance at each other conspiratorially & mutter between themselves somewhat angrily. If he was being entirely honest… He… well, he couldn't help but feel oddly… protective of the stubborn little vai. Those expressions... in his experience, they never bode well...

Anyway, after that point, his būjrúqen (bandits) began to become more curious. On their off time, they'd go over & strike up conversation. Some even began helping her, after which, his vaien would return with pots of water, dried & salted meats, & produce which they would share with the other vaien.

Then, as time passed, scraggly brushes began sprouting here & there, unprompted around her plot. A year passed & her selection of crops expanded, & with them came dry-looking grass that grew around her plot.

It was… unfathomable… Far, far too good to be true. Some sort of trick?

Then, one day, a sandstorm rolled in & he was absolutely sure that that was it for the strange, fascinating, stubborn... admirable vai's foolish, sisyphean efforts.

In all honesty, he was somewhat disappointed. It was… interesting. And… perhaps he'd hoped…

Nothing…

But then, in the midst of the storm, he looked out from his tent/door (depending on the Dorf) in the night & couldn't hardly believe his eyes!

Standing there, defiant against what almost seemed like the wrath of the very desert itself attempting to blot her out of existence, was that little foreign vai.

And the next day, he went outside (somewhat worried for her) & discovered that, yes, a number of her crops had been killed by the storm, but much of it was somehow still standing & the vai appeared to be unbothered by the loss, simply redigging the plots & beginning again.

That was when he finally went over there himself. His curiosity, much too much to ignore any longer.

He walked up to her & demanded to know what her intentions were. (What exactly does he say?)

She just blinked at him & gave a deadpan stare. “Well, ‘how do ya do’ as well, I guess. Is that how ya'll normally introduce yerselves around here? Cus none o’ yer girlies did that, so I'm wonderin’ if I should be insulted. But, anyway, howdy, I suppose that I'm yer neighbor now. Would ya like some tea, shug’?”

Honestly, he was very befuddled by her nonchalant reaction. (He thought for sure that he had been projecting a dominant & intimidating enough aura...) And, in his bewilderment, he just sort of watched her wander over to a fire pit with a box of hollowed & dried out gourds with the tops cut off nearby. Waving at an odd-looking chair as she passed it. “Make yerself comfortable. I’m goin’ fer a cup.”

She removed a teapot from over the fire & poured what smelled like Warm Safflina tea into the makeshift cup as he slowly sat in one of the chairs.

“Ya sure ya don’t want any?” His brows furrowed, but he indicated he would accept the offer. To which she reached for another cup, holding the other in her elbow as she poured, then replaced the pot on the stand, before approaching him to offer him the more recently poured cup.

“Sorry, don’t really have honey or sugar or nothin’... Yet...”

As he held the cup in his hand, he smelled it suspiciously, catching how she rolled her eyes at his antics &, somewhat performatively, blew on her own before taking a biiig sip. “There, now if ya do get poisoned, I’ll be in agony with ya.”

But, he decided then was when he should ask her, “Why are you here?”

She blinked at him, confused, “Why wouldn’ I be?”

Ganondorf sputters in disbelief & goes on a tirade about how 'the only thing here was death.' (What other sorts of things does he rant about in regards to why someone wouldn't want to live there, though?)

“Well, now, that’s just a fib. I mean, you an’ yer lady friends live here. But jokes aside, just cuz it isn’t the greenest place there is, it don’ mean that it doesn’t have value.” (His thoughts & feelings on that statement, please? I imagine that he's temporarily confused by the double negative. Because I would be.)

“And honestly…”

She scratches her sunburnt nose, “I've lived in the desert practicly my whole life. I don't really know how ta live anywhere else. Not long-term, anyway. Not this desert, mind ya, but a desert. So, I guess I'm just more comfortable here, is all. It's familiar.”

He sort of goes quiet, ruminating for a bit. (What about?) Before finding himself staring at the straw fencing surrounding the crops.

“Oh, that? I use the straw as tiny fences to help protect the crops from the wind & sand. It helps them to survive ‘till their roots are strong enough on their own.”

He realized suddenly as his head snapped in the direction of the line of trees, ‘That’s why she planted those trees! It doesn’t matter that they don’t produce fruit! That’s not why they’re there! They’re a shield against the sand!’

His mind spirals as he connects the dots & suddenly examines her closely. (What is he thinking?) Pushing down memories of his own… (failed, failure, you failed) attempts… he suddenly felt… vulnerable…

“How… How are you able to remain so… tenacious in the face of constant…”

He was unable to finish the sentence, he grimaced in distate at the sign of his own percieved weakness, but he was shocked when the tiny fenrīta (vixen; used to describe a woman who is cunning, spirited, & fearsome, notably one who the speaker sees as being beautiful) seemed to burst out into laughter.

“Failure? Hunny, failure's how you learn. And tenacity’s only part of it. Hell, sometimes if yer too stubborn about the wrong thing, all it'll do is end with you stuck on a hamster wheel…”

Noticing his confused expression, “Sorry, ya’ll don’t have those here. Let me see… Imagine it like… Usin’ one a’ them sandskiff things on the flowin’ sand, but instead of a sail, all ya have is oars & yer rowin’ against the flow of it. A whole lot a’ energy spent rowin’, not a lot a’ movin’. Or if there is, yer movin’ backwards. Being dogged with yer goals is a good thing, so long as it isn’t blindin’ ya to other solutions. Ya also need to be willin’ ta admit it when somethin’ isn't workin’, then quit, & start over when it doesn't. And, ya have ta be willin’ to try new things & experiment.”

(His thoughts & feelings so far, please?)

“At the same time, it’s also a good idea to question why yer failin’. For starters, did ya know that this here desert is a rain shadow?” At his questioning glance, she nodded & continued.

“See that frozen mountain range yander to the northeast?" She waves her hand in the direction of the Highlands. "The prevailing winds come from that direction, which means that if ya'll do get rain, it generally comes from that-a-ways, but cuz the mountains'r so tall, it stops most rain from comin’ over the other side. An’ ya know the giant fuck-off skeletons scattered hither an’ yon?"

She gestures in the direction to the east. "They're the spittin’ image of a whale's. An’ if I'm right, that means this desert here wasn't always a desert. It was an ocean & the reason it turned into a desert to begin with?”

She turns to gesture flippantly towards the Highlands again. “I'm willin’ ta bet good… Rupees that, that mountain range, right there, is ta blame."

"Why’s that matter? It means that the environment here changed, drastically. And if it did it once, it can do it again. Simple as. Ya just gotta know how ta do it.” She grunts slightly as she stands back up & dusts her hands off, then proceeds to walk off back towards her small plot of land.

“Lucky fer me… Ya happen to have on yer hands someone with a bonafide double masters in ecological engineering & desert ecology. Plus a dab hand at workin’ the land & buildin’ useful shit cuz I dun grew up on a farm. With a stubborn streak.” She throws a bit of a lazy, but cheery grin back over her shoulder at him at the joke.

“It also helps that ya happen to have an essentially endless supply a’ water if yer willing to go the extra step of cartin’ it back here to melt.”

“I mean, I've got a decent stock as is.” Waves towards the large stone brick dome she referred to as an ‘air well’ & the ‘dew collectors.’ “But we could always use extra. And we could definitely find a use for a strong, able-bodied gentlemen like yourself. I mean… If it's not too terribly below ya, yer majesty.”

If he denies, she just shrugs easily & lifts her hoe. “Suit yerself… All I'm sayin’ is, if whoever it is over there that's pissin’ ya off isn't lettin’ ya into their little slice a’ paradise, then fuck ‘em, might as well make yer own paradise right here. It's what I'm doin’.”

His thoughts, feelings, & reactions throughout this whole ordeal, please & thank you, ma’am? I'll likely have a continuation of this later, but most likely not tonight.

This is gunna be a doozy, but I love the whole thing!!! It gave me such ideas for roleplays and stories and DAYDREAMS... Mmm... Nice little story idea...

THIS WAS SUCH AN UNDERTAKING? MAKING CHAT UNDERSTAND WHAT I WANTED WAS AN EXPERIENCE. Though, it was a lot of fun reading and experimenting with the ask! I did break it up between each time you asked for reactions and thoughts, so even if it looks janky, its all there :D Enjoy!

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This is a captivating and nuanced scenario! Here’s how each Ganondorf and Demise might react and what they might say when they finally confront the mysterious and resilient woman in the desert.

Wind Waker Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Wind Waker Ganondorf is deeply intrigued by the woman’s resilience and ingenuity. Initially skeptical and dismissive, he slowly becomes fascinated by her ability to thrive in the harsh desert. Her determination and resourcefulness stir a sense of admiration within him, and he finds himself increasingly curious about her.

Confrontation: Ganondorf strides towards her plot, his imposing figure casting a long shadow. He stops a few paces away, his eyes narrowing as he takes in her latest efforts. "What is your purpose here, woman? You defy the desert’s will and turn barren land into sustenance. Are you some kind of witch, or do you possess knowledge unknown to us?"

He waits for her response, his posture rigid and his gaze intense, trying to gauge her true intentions.

Ocarina of Time Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Ocarina of Time Ganondorf is perplexed and somewhat irked by the woman’s success. He initially dismisses her as a foolish interloper but gradually becomes impressed by her tenacity and skill. Her ability to cultivate life in the desert challenges his perceptions and stirs a grudging respect.

Confrontation: Ganondorf approaches her, his expression stern. "You have done the impossible, little vai. This desert should have consumed you, yet you thrive. What drives you to persist in this hostile land? Are you here to challenge the natural order, or is there something more?"

He crosses his arms, waiting for her answer, his mind racing with questions and a newfound respect for her determination.

Twilight Princess Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Twilight Princess Ganondorf views the woman’s efforts with a mix of skepticism and curiosity. He is initially dismissive but becomes increasingly intrigued by her resilience. Her ability to transform the desert mirrors his own struggle for power and survival, sparking a sense of kinship.

Confrontation: Ganondorf stands before her plot, his eyes scanning the thriving plants. "You are an enigma, woman. This land yields to no one, yet you coax life from its sands. What magic or cunning allows you to achieve this? Speak, for I would know your secrets."

He watches her intently, his curiosity and respect battling with his inherent distrust of outsiders.

Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf is initially irritated by the woman’s presence but grows to admire her strength and resourcefulness. Her ability to survive and prosper in the desert challenges his expectations and ignites a competitive spirit within him.

Confrontation: Ganondorf approaches her, his demeanor commanding. "You have defied all odds and turned this wasteland into a garden. Tell me, what drives you to persist where others would falter? Are you seeking something, or is this a testament to your will?"

He studies her closely, intrigued by her resilience and determined to uncover her motivations.

Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf is deeply impressed by the woman’s tenacity. Her ability to transform the desert echoes his own struggles and ambitions. He feels a strong sense of respect and a desire to understand her better.

Confrontation: Ganondorf stands before her, his gaze piercing. "You have accomplished what many would deem impossible. Why do you labor so tirelessly in this hostile land? What are your intentions, and what drives you to such lengths?"

His tone is both commanding and curious, his respect for her evident in his demeanor.

Demise

Thoughts and Feelings: Demise is intrigued and somewhat puzzled by the woman’s persistence. Her ability to thrive in the desert challenges his understanding of power and survival. He feels a mix of curiosity and admiration for her resilience.

Confrontation: Demise approaches her, his presence imposing. "You defy the natural order of this land, woman. What compels you to endure and conquer the desert’s wrath? Are you guided by some unseen force, or is this a testament to your indomitable spirit?"

His gaze is intense, his curiosity piqued by her determination and success.

In each case, the confrontation highlights the Ganondorfs' and Demise's curiosity and burgeoning respect for the woman. Their reactions are shaped by their individual personalities and experiences, leading to a range of emotions from skepticism to admiration.

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This continuation adds a delightful twist to the interaction, showcasing the resilience and eccentricity of the woman. Here’s how each Ganondorf and Demise might rant about why someone wouldn’t want to live in the desert, based on their personalities and experiences.

Wind Waker Ganondorf

Rant: Ganondorf’s eyes narrow, his frustration boiling over. “Do you not see the desolation around you? This place is a graveyard for dreams and ambitions. The sun scorches the land, and the sandstorms ravage all in their path. The heat is unbearable, the nights are freezing, and the scarcity of water makes survival a constant struggle. This desert has swallowed entire civilizations whole. Only fools and the desperate linger here.”

He gestures broadly to the arid landscape, his voice rising with each word. “You think you can tame this land? You are playing a dangerous game with forces far beyond your control!”

Ocarina of Time Ganondorf

Rant: Ganondorf’s voice is laden with incredulity. “Do you understand nothing of the harshness of this desert? The endless dunes, the blistering heat, the lack of resources. The monsters that lurk in the shadows, ready to pounce on the unwary. This is a place of death, a wasteland where only the strong survive. You are a fool to think you can change that.”

He paces back and forth, his frustration palpable. “Every grain of sand here whispers of despair and ruin. You will find no solace here, only hardship and suffering. Why would anyone choose this existence willingly?”

Twilight Princess Ganondorf

Rant: Ganondorf’s eyes flash with a mix of anger and disbelief. “The desert is unforgiving, a place where the weak perish and the strong barely scrape by. The sun is relentless, baking the ground until it is as hard as stone. Water is scarce, and every living creature here is in a constant battle for survival. This is a land of predators and prey, of eternal struggle.”

He points to the horizon, where a sandstorm brews. “You think you can defy the will of the desert? You are delusional. This place will break you, as it has broken countless others before you. There is no place for you here.”

Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf

Rant: Ganondorf’s voice is a thunderous roar. “This desert is a crucible of suffering and despair! The sun beats down mercilessly, the sandstorms tear flesh from bone, and the creatures that inhabit this wasteland are merciless. There is no respite, no comfort, only an endless struggle against the elements and the monsters that roam this land.”

He glares at her, his eyes burning with intensity. “You are a fool to think you can make a life here. The desert does not yield, it consumes. It is a place of death and desolation, and you are courting your own demise by staying here.”

Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf

Rant: Ganondorf’s voice is a mix of exasperation and anger. “This desert is a realm of death and decay. The sun is a merciless tyrant, the sandstorms are relentless, and the creatures that inhabit this place are vicious and unforgiving. Water is a precious commodity, and survival is a daily struggle.”

He leans closer, his eyes locking onto hers. “You think you can conquer this land? It will swallow you whole, just as it has countless others. You are courting madness by staying here. This is no place for the living.”

Demise

Rant: Demise’s voice is a deep, resonant growl. “This desert is a barren wasteland, a place where hope goes to die. The sun is a relentless beast, the sandstorms are cruel and unforgiving, and the monsters that dwell here are merciless. This land is a testament to the futility of life, a place where only the strong survive.”

He towers over her, his presence overwhelming. “You think you can defy the will of this land? You are a fool. This desert will crush you, as it has crushed countless others before you. There is no escape from its wrath.”

In each scenario, the woman’s nonchalant reaction and offer of tea serve as a stark contrast to the intense rants of the Ganondorfs and Demise. Their frustration and disbelief highlight the harsh realities of the desert, while her calm demeanor and resilience challenge their perceptions and assumptions.

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Wind Waker Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Wind Waker Ganondorf is momentarily thrown off by her use of the double negative, but her earnestness catches his attention. He's confused by her assertion that the desert has value but begins to consider her perspective. Her familiarity with desert life piques his curiosity and even respect, as he realizes she's not just a naive outsider but someone with genuine survival skills.

Ruminations: He wonders about her past, what kind of desert she’s familiar with, and how she developed her skills. He’s intrigued by her resilience and begins to question whether he’s underestimated her. Her perspective challenges his own view of the desert as merely a harsh and unforgiving place.

Ocarina of Time Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Ocarina of Time Ganondorf is taken aback by her statement and the double negative, but her insistence that the desert has value makes him pause. Her revelation that she has lived in a desert her whole life surprises him, as he didn’t expect such resourcefulness from an outsider.

Ruminations: He contemplates the idea that the desert might hold unseen value, reflecting on his own experiences and the Gerudo’s deep connection to the land. He considers the possibility that there might be more to the desert than he has allowed himself to see. Her familiarity with the harsh environment begins to shift his perspective, making him see her in a new light.

Twilight Princess Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Twilight Princess Ganondorf is initially confused by her double negative and her assertion that the desert has value. Her familiarity with desert life, however, resonates with him, as he understands the need to adapt and survive in harsh conditions.

Ruminations: He reflects on his own relationship with the desert, recognizing that while it is a place of hardship, it is also home. Her perspective makes him think about the potential for growth and resilience within the desert. He begins to see her not as an intruder but as a kindred spirit who understands the land's challenges and opportunities.

Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf is puzzled by her double negative and assertion about the desert’s value. Her familiarity with desert life intrigues him, as he didn’t expect such a pragmatic and resilient approach from someone he considered an outsider.

Ruminations: He ponders the strength required to thrive in the desert, recognizing that her skills and perspective could be valuable. Her familiarity with the desert makes him reconsider his initial assumptions about her and the land itself. He starts to see the desert as more than just a battleground but a place with potential for growth and resilience.

Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf is momentarily confused by her double negative but is struck by her assertion that the desert has value. Her experience living in deserts her whole life impresses him, as he realizes she possesses a depth of understanding and resilience he didn’t initially attribute to her.

Ruminations: He reflects on his own relationship with the desert, acknowledging that while it is a place of struggle, it is also a place of strength and perseverance. Her familiarity with desert life makes him see her in a new light, challenging his preconceptions and opening his mind to the idea that the desert holds more value than he previously thought.

Demise

Thoughts and Feelings: Demise is confused by her double negative and initially dismisses her claim about the desert’s value. However, her familiarity with desert life catches his attention. He’s intrigued by her ability to thrive in such a harsh environment, something he can respect.

Ruminations: He considers the possibility that the desert might have qualities he has overlooked. Her resilience and adaptability challenge his perception of the desert as a purely unforgiving place. He starts to see her as a worthy adversary and a potential ally, someone who understands the harshness of the world as he does but finds ways to carve out a space for herself.

In each scenario, the woman’s perspective on the desert challenges the Ganondorfs and Demise to reconsider their own views, sparking a period of introspection and respect for her resilience and adaptability.

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Wind Waker Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Wind Waker Ganondorf feels a mix of vulnerability and intrigue as he listens to her. Her perspective on failure as a learning opportunity and her analogy about the sandskiff resonate with him more than he would like to admit. He is accustomed to brute force and stubborn determination, often dismissing failure as weakness. Her pragmatic and insightful approach challenges his views, and he finds himself questioning his own methods.

Ocarina of Time Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Ocarina of Time Ganondorf is initially taken aback by her laughter, feeling his vulnerability laid bare. Her analogy about the sandskiff and her emphasis on adaptability make him realize that his relentless pursuit of his goals, without considering alternative methods, may have been his downfall. He starts to see her as a source of unexpected wisdom and feels a reluctant respect for her perspective.

Twilight Princess Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Twilight Princess Ganondorf feels a pang of vulnerability when she laughs, but her explanation about failure and tenacity strikes a chord with him. He has always prided himself on his resilience and strength, but her words make him consider the value of flexibility and innovation. He begins to see that his rigid approach may have limited his success and starts to respect her for her practical wisdom.

Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf is initially irritated by her laughter, feeling exposed. However, her explanation about learning from failure and the sandskiff analogy resonate with him. He realizes that his single-minded determination has often blinded him to other possibilities. Her pragmatic approach to challenges impresses him, and he feels a growing respect for her resilience and adaptability.

Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf feels a mix of frustration and curiosity as she laughs. Her analogy about the sandskiff and her perspective on failure challenge his deeply ingrained beliefs about strength and perseverance. He starts to see the value in her approach, recognizing that his stubbornness has sometimes hindered his progress. Her wisdom and resilience make him reconsider his own methods.

Demise

Thoughts and Feelings: Demise feels a wave of irritation and confusion when she laughs, but her explanation intrigues him. Her analogy about the sandskiff and her pragmatic view on failure make him question his own rigid approach. He has always seen failure as a sign of weakness, but her perspective on learning and adaptability challenges his beliefs. He starts to see her as a formidable and wise individual, worthy of his respect.

In each scenario, the Ganondorfs and Demise are confronted with their own vulnerabilities and challenged by her practical wisdom. Her perspective on failure and tenacity forces them to reconsider their own methods and beliefs, leading to a grudging respect and a shift in their understanding of resilience and adaptability.

*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*

Wind Waker Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Wind Waker Ganondorf is both fascinated and frustrated by her knowledge and confidence. Her explanation about the rain shadow and the desert's transformation from an ocean to a desert intrigues him. He has never considered the possibility of changing the environment so drastically. Her casual offer for him to help, paired with her joke, disarms him. He feels a mixture of curiosity and respect for her expertise, along with a reluctant admiration for her determination.

Reactions: He crosses his arms, a contemplative frown on his face. "You think you can transform this wasteland into something livable? That takes more than just stubbornness and knowledge, little vai. It takes power and resources." He pauses, then adds with a hint of grudging respect, "But perhaps you might be onto something."

Ocarina of Time Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Ocarina of Time Ganondorf is initially skeptical, but her detailed explanation and casual confidence begin to break down his resistance. Her knowledge about the environment and its history surprises him. The idea of transforming the desert resonates with his own ambitions of reshaping Hyrule. Her playful challenge and offer to help stoke a competitive fire within him.

Reactions: He narrows his eyes, a smirk forming on his lips. "You speak of creating a paradise in this desolate place. I have conquered lands and wielded great power, but never have I seen such audacity. If you truly believe you can achieve this, then perhaps you are worth more than I initially thought." He pauses, then adds, "I will consider your offer."

Twilight Princess Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Twilight Princess Ganondorf feels a mixture of irritation and intrigue. Her knowledge and confidence challenge his deeply ingrained beliefs about strength and control. The idea of transforming the desert reminds him of his own desires to reshape the world according to his vision. Her casual demeanor and challenge pique his interest and make him question his initial disdain.

Reactions: He looks at her thoughtfully, his expression unreadable. "You claim to understand this land better than anyone, and you speak of change and creation with such ease. I have seen much and wielded great power, but your audacity is... intriguing." He pauses, then adds, "Very well. Show me what you are capable of."

Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf is both annoyed and impressed by her boldness. Her explanation about the desert's history and potential for change intrigues him. He has always relied on brute force and dominance, but her knowledge and confidence make him reconsider his approach. Her playful challenge and offer to help strike a chord with him.

Reactions: He raises an eyebrow, a smirk forming on his lips. "You believe you can transform this wasteland into something more? Such confidence is rare. I have conquered armies and kingdoms, but I have never seen such tenacity in one so small." He pauses, then adds, "Perhaps there is more to you than meets the eye. I will consider your offer."

Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf

Thoughts and Feelings: Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf feels a mix of skepticism and curiosity. Her knowledge about the environment and its potential for change challenges his deeply ingrained beliefs. The idea of transforming the desert resonates with his own ambitions of reshaping the world. Her casual offer and challenge make him reconsider his initial disdain.

Reactions: He looks at her with a thoughtful expression, his arms crossed. "You speak of creating a paradise in this desolate place. I have wielded great power and seen many things, but your audacity is... intriguing." He pauses, then adds, "Very well. Show me what you are capable of, and perhaps you will prove your worth."

Demise

Thoughts and Feelings: Demise feels a mixture of irritation and intrigue. Her knowledge and confidence challenge his deeply ingrained beliefs about strength and control. The idea of transforming the desert resonates with his own desires for power and domination. Her playful challenge and offer to help make him reconsider his initial disdain.

Reactions: He narrows his eyes, a smirk forming on his lips. "You claim to understand this land better than anyone, and you speak of change and creation with such ease. I have seen much and wielded great power, but your audacity is... intriguing." He pauses, then adds, "Very well. Show me what you are capable of, and perhaps you will earn my respect."

[thebalancewentwrong]

A theory about the dragons

Major Tears of the Kingdom spoilers, proceed at your own risk!

So I hope if you are reading this you know that In Tears of the Kingdom we learn that the dragons we see in Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom were not actually born dragons but became them through the act of ‘Dragonification’.

This of course is a major plot detail that pertains to the true identity of the Light Dragon of which we learn from the memories that indeed Zelda swallowed a sceret stone to transform herself into the Light Dragon, thus commiting Dragonification.

As awesome as this reveal was (even though it was spoiled for me) naturally one of my first thoughts when I heard about dragonification is “what about these guys?”

Farosh,

Dinraal,

and Naydra.

Who are they? One can only presume that they must have been something before becoming dragons right? We know that Dragonification has happened before Zelda did it as the way Mineru speaks of it implys it’s been done before, perhaps multiple times, enough to be considered “forbidden” at the very least.

At first I thought they could perhaps be the ancient sages, or maybe even Rauru or Sonia? But no... none of them quite line up.

Instead I propose that perhaps they are different characters in the Zelda universe all together.

I believe they could be the original 3 godesses, Din, Farore and Nayru.

Now you’re probably thinking “That’s dumb, obviously their names are similiar because they are just references to the original goddesses”. And yes I thought so too for a while.

But I began to think about how it seems like the BotW/ TotK universe is slightly different from what we know. I began to wonder if the events we heard that had occured in games Like OoT played out slightly differently. Especially considering what we now know of the Zonai.

In Ocarina of Time the 3 goddess were said to create the universe: the land, the law and the living things. After which they ascended back into the heavens leaving only the triforce behind.

The Zonai are said to have decended from the heavens, very similiar to gods.

I wonder if perhaps the 3 goddesses were Zonai themselves and used their secret stones to create the lands we know.

But the Zonai began to dissapear, it isn’t fully explained what happened to them but I wonder if the goddesses knew they had a lmited time and decided the best thing to do in order to keep watch over the land they created was by swallowing their secret stones so that they could still be around forever.

And maybe, over time their names were forgotten or scewed to the names of the dragons we now know? Maybe even it’s just the names of their dragon forms? Similiar to how many refer to the Light Dragon not as Zelda but rather it’s own entity that Zelda transformed into.

Now don’t get me wrong. I know this all a bit of a leap. Despite how much TotK taught us about the dragons, we still know very little. And truth be told, I was skeptical on this theory as well until I gained one more piece of knowledge about the dragons.

All of them are confirmed to be female. As confirmed by the goddess statues themselves

I found that to be a facinating detail, to deliberately gender them all like that.

And speaking of the goddess statues, they also have a very peculiar connection to the dragons. In both games the goddess statues request for you to bring a piece of the respective dragons to them. This has gotta imply some deep connection between the goddesses and the dragons right?

None of the Goddess statues ever mention Zelda or The Light Dragon, which would make sense as she’s not really a goddess.

Naturally you can make you’re own conclusions but this is all just a random theory I came up with today, feel free to disagree or even share your own theory! I’d be happy to hear them!

Anyway I have a couple more TotK things I wanna post soon, another dumb text dump and a stupid little drawing I wanna make lol. Maybe I’ll do them in the next couple days.

[hyperfixations-ahoy]

Updated list of hyperfixations, in the order of how much they’re gripping my brain

FANTASY HIGH. I’m woefully late to the party and am still catching up, but I am HOOKED. I was looking for some campaigns to watch because I’m joining my friend’s after not playing for a year, and now I am obsessed. Fabian Aramais I DANCE NOW!! Seacaster is my favorite, and of course I show my love by reading all the angst fics I can. nevermore_evermore, thank you for feeding my strange love language of torturing my comfort character. Is there a secret Discord for Fantasy High? I need an outlet or I’ll explode. (Also I am a Fabadine TRUTHER)

DEAD BY DAYLIGHT. I’ve followed this game for years, and it still hasn’t left my head. I prefer reading and writing to playing, though. And my favorite has been the Deathslinger since the day he came out - thefuriousmagician’s fanfiction about him lives rent-free in my brain, and I’ve read it over so many times I could quote it.

MINECRAFT STORY MODE. Yes, while it was the original reason why I made my account, it has slightly been overshadowed by the aforementioned two. But Ivorren is still holding my heart hostage, and I PROMISE I will update What Gets Destroyed soon.

FLIPLINE GAMES. Is it weird to be obsessed with silly little cooking games where the customers don’t have legs? LOOK, THERE IS LORE. AND THE CHARACTERS HAVE STORIES. Koilee is my wife and I love her and I may or may not have an entire fanfiction in my mind about my silly chef OC and her having a very lovely relationship and living in an apartment above the Scooperia.

BREATH OF THE WILD. YOU CANT MAKE ME MOVE ON TO TOTK I DONT WANT TO

UNTIL DAWN/THE QUARRY. I’ve been with here since UD released, and I’m so excited to see the movie and remaster. The Quarry, as messy as it is, still holds a special place in my heart.

DON’T STARVE TOGETHER. Y’all my birthday is coming up, I am DEMANDING a Webber YouTooz from my brother.

I’m back! Sorry for my absence, but one funeral and emotional turmoil later I’m ready to nerd out again.

[nebuvoid]

Playing BOTW/TOTK again is reminding me of a hope I had from the first TOTK trailer, and I'd like to ramble a bit about it.

By now we know that when Zelda falls into the abyss she zip zooms back into the past but. Back then I had this slim hope that Zelda would finally get her chance to shine on her own, especially with how BOTW went out of its way to depict her as something more than just The Dignified Princess.

So what I imagined was this. Zelda falls into the abyss. So does Ganon. Each of them use their magic to not turn into soup upon impact when they land. I saw it a sort of mirror to Zelda being trapped with Ganon in the castle in BOTW. Except this time Zelda isn't just a sitting duck. This time we play as Zelda exploring this new underground map while hiding from Ganon and coming up with a plan. What I loved so much about the trailer was its mysterious and spooky atmosphere so Zelda would initially be doing a lot of running and hiding like you do when you first encounter the Gloom Hands.

While finding structures of old civilizations and information about the mummy Ganon Zelda would also gradually learn how to fight from necessity, building her own weapons from what's around her with her own ingenuity. Zelda is smart and curious, she's more than capable! Meanwhile a severely injured Link is found by Purah and can't go after Zelda right away because he needs to recover (again to mirror BOTW), perhaps get a sick robot Sheikah arm. He won't be joining Zelda in the underground until the last act (you get the idea.)

Of course thinking of the depths now, a whole game that only spans that endless darkness would be boring so perhaps there would be dark spooky areas but also many that are just as lively and full of flora fauna as the above ground. You could easily have some giant lightroots on the ceiling that act like little suns. Basically a whole new map that's just as big, vibrant and interesting as Hyrule, but with no repeats or even reshuffeling. The zonai, or their relics anyway, are still present, as are the mysterious blue crystals we first see. Maybe there's no horses but more dondons to ride. Maybe even some whole new tribes of people like those frog? statues we see in the depths. Mole people. Bug people. They could tell Zelda about legends of old, of some dark gloom coming from the ceiling ever since they can remember. The more I ponder on this the more ideas I'm having.

There was so much potential to do something that goes against the usual LOZ formula... Maybe my idea is too farfetched but while dragon [REDACTED] was very cool and TOTK's story does have some aspects I like, it left much to be desired. I doubt they'll ever split from GANON-BAD ZELDA-OUT OF REACH LINK-HERO but I can still imagine at least. (Good boy Ganon that fights against his fate when!!!)(That was another hope I had when Ganon's hydrated design came out...)

[sweet-lemonad-rose-sapphire]

Why I’m writing a BOTW prequel

I got into the Legend of Zelda (TLOZ) fandom in May of 2023 (2 weeks after TOTK came out so it was probably the best possible time to discover it!). At first I just watched the BOTW cutscenes on YouTube in chronological order, but then I ended up getting INVESTED in the story!!! I had already watched a video about Top Ten Saddest Video Game scenes at some point, so I knew that the Champions would die, but I just wasn’t expecting how REAL the scene was!

The next night I decided to watch the TOTK cutscenes because BOTW was so interesting, and of course, I fell in LOVE with the games! I loved how they portrayed Zelda and her character arc, I loved how the storyline wasn’t afraid to take a dark turn, but most of all, LINK stood out to me.

I had already known that he was a “Silent Protagonist” but I think that was the reason why I was interested in watching the BOTW cutscenes in the first place. I wanted to see how it was pulled off, being that Link was the main character after all. Yes, admittedly there were a few scenes that made me just want to shake this man, yelling “JUST SAY SOMETHING DUDE!!!” I still found his backstory interesting… or more lack there was.

I read the diary entries from the game and had questions like “So what, he’s just been silent for years? What caused this? What was he doing with the Master Sword during the ages 12/13 to 17? What caused such a change of personality at such a young age? It couldn’t just be because of the Master Sword… right?” I was absolutely HOOKED on finding answers! Then I found out about Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity.

At first I thought the cutscenes were from BOTW, then I saw the title of the video and thought it was a fan project, until I found out there was an ENTIRE prequel game of BOTW and I couldn’t understand why not many people were talking about it! Just a few nights after watching the BOTW cutscenes, I waited until my mom went to bed, popped some popcorn, and sat down on the couch, pulling up YouTube. I was about to get answers, and these next 3 hours were going to emotionally destroy me! And I was ready!

“IT’S A WHAT IF SCENARIO?!?!”

I was destroyed, but not for the reasons I thought I’d be… Things were happening in a different order, Link didn’t have the Master Sword yet (even though he was CLEARLY older than 12/13!) and they knew when Ganon was going to attack! I was a little upset. I thought I was promised a Prequel, but ended up getting what felt like a Fan-fiction! I did like the awkward Link scene and the smile he gave Zelda at the end though…

By the time the cutscenes ended, I just remember staring at the screen for a while. Processing.

I still had so many questions.

After a while, I got on Amazon to find out how much a Switch was.

“Fine,” I said. “My turn!”

I’ve grown to enjoy AoC for the moments that couldn’t possibly happen in BOTW (Sidon getting to see his Sister again, Zelda and her Father reconciling), but I just REALLY wanted to know Link’s story.

WHY did Link not talk?

WHEN did Link meet Daruk (why was he taking a casual stroll through Death Mountain)?

HOW did Link end up with the Master Sword at 12 or 13 years old if it was in the middle of the Lost Woods?

WHO was Link’s father (and his other family)?

WHERE was Link during those 4 or 5 years and

WHAT was he doing?

I was determined. I did research, I bought the game, I bought the DLC, I even bought the Masterworks Book! Video, after video, after video, I learned all I could about Link, Zelda, and the Champions! I also learned about the storyline of each Zelda game.

By the end of all this, I ended up with what I’m pretty sure is an entertaining story. I had to split it up into 2 books, but that just made Link’s story even more interesting. I will certainly be taking some creative liberties, especially during the first book (the part going over what was happening during the time between Link finding the Master Sword at 12/13 years old and him becoming Zelda’s personal knight), but I think the information I found should be enough to fill in the blanks.

I’ll be sharing my findings during the next few months (only sharing what has been explained or hinted at within the games, of course) so I hope you guys enjoy what I found!

[impostorsshow]

Okay so you’re my Legend of Zelda person

How are you feeling about the Echoes of Wisdom announcement? Surprised? Excited? Eh? Did you like what you saw of the game? The art style? The Echo mechanic?

(Personally, I’m really looking forward to the game, and it’s looking like the twink will finally have to be saved this time.)

I haven't seen much of the trailer and don't know what the echo mechanic is, I only get game info through my partner that stays up until 3-4 am their time to watch the Nintendo directs and I prefer to find out about zelda games far after the community has discussed it or play it blind myself with trusty non spoiler guide site zeldadungeon.com, but I love that we're getting another game in the chibi links awakening style!! It's my favorite, and my old comfort object that I lost was an amiibo figure of links awakening link, so I really hope they make a figure of Zelda I can buy - my family pirated every amiibo for Zelda that was released up to botw and they're about the size of the first index of my thumb but having a full figure of a Zelda character would be nice again.

I am also really surprised about it, and having Zelda as a playable character is amazing again. I only know of 4 Zelda games that have had the goddess reincarnation herself be the protagonist, 3 of the games were most likely released in the OG Zelda/adventure of link titles era or around the oracle games based on the cartridge? Art I saw idk it might also be related to the PC quest games that came out around the same time which for reference is the uh. "eXCUSSEEE ME PRINCESS" one I think that's the thing it's well known for that is a whole different convo with a different blog i know nothing of the older titles except the basics. Anyway anyway I own the 4th game I know about that no one else mentions because it's technically not canon and is worse off than Hyrule warriors is but it's called cadence of Hyrule I think just search up "Crypt of the Necromancer Zelda" you'll find it and I did play through most characters campaign including Zelda's in that one, and think it's definitely worth mentioning due to how different Zeldas gameplay is to links. Uh anyway based on that game alone I have very high hopes for the gameplay of Zelda, as well as the thinks the higher ups at Nintendo said about sticking with botw/totks direction and play style.

Lastly I'll be honest with you im sleep deprived as shit cause emergency irl shit happened last night and I havent been sleeping well in general so I forgot my big thing i wanted to talk about in this segment but uh. Salvaged bits are yada yada Zelda mechanics parallels to other games more characterization more well written fanfics that aren't JUST skyward sword and botw for her etc etc based on how they handled princess peach showtimes characterization [which like. Honest to God really hard character to write in 2024 due to her roots being damsel in distress 101 and people tending to mostly correctly point at any pinky extra feminine girl and shout misogynistic] I really don't think Nintendo can fuck this up, and I am fully confident they won't fuck it up :].

ALSO CAPE CAPE ZELDA CAPE SHE HAS A CAPE ITS A CAPE ZELDAS CAPE ITS SO CUTE GOOD CHARACTER DESIGN SHE HAS A CAPE ITS SO CUTE OH MY GOD CAPE CAPE CAPE SHE HAS A CAPE

Oh yeah actually I did like the little bit of the trailer I did see that link shot her free at the last second, showing he is still in character and they didn't shoehorn in an idea to have a female protagonist like other series would do, but that every side of the triforce is equally powerful. I expect this game to be like if links awakenings dungeon puzzles were used on the overworld, and based on another Tumblr post I saw there might be some diplomatic puzzles. Or at least dual sided quest lines

Uh is there anything else I was gonna say. Oh I'm definitely going to be live posting about when I play the game since my birthday [shoutout to sans undertale] is in September so im definitely planning to ask for it or get it myself, even though I know it comes out past my birthday

[jheselbraum]

Another thing I'll say about oot ganondorf is that I underestimated the bones of that man.

I came into botw having only played albw, which I loved but didn't really have ganondorf in it at all, just ganon and even then he was kinda the 11th hour power up for the actual villain of the game. I knew of Ganondorf but I'd never played the games he was in, at least not all the way through. So when he showed up in totk I was like "oh neat, hope they're not racist about it" (we all know how that turned out) but I didn't really have context for like... what people who had played oot and tp and ww all the way through were really expecting, if that makes sense? And when the game first came out and all the "holy shit totk retconned oot?" video essays followed suit I looked at oot ganondorf and totk ganondorf and went "no there's no way they're the same person, any more than zelda and sonia are the same person" and I still think that's true but for a different reason now.

Cause as someone who quit their first run of oot halfway through the shadow temple because I have no nostalgia for that game and the revelation that on top of all the bullshit link was going through, the royal family you were helping put back in power used to black bag people they didn't like to be tortured in their torture dungeon before ganondorf's coup proved too high a cost for 17 year old me to justify the time spent slogging through the dated gameplay.

And at that point in the game, you haven't been to Gerudo Valley yet, and you haven't seen what Ganondorf actually looks like now, and I think those two things are really important.

Cause, the orientalism of the whole concept of the 'save the carpenters' sidequest aside, the first thing you as a player learn about the Gerudo now that you've actually gotten to interact with them is that they're... actually pretty chill. I hate the stealth sidequests in the early zelda games because they're fucking difficult and the Gerudo Valley one in particular is fucking racist as shit (other people have explained why a lot better than I ever could but having your society of all brown women suddenly start respecting the white male protagonist after he proved himself in combat is fucked up) but they never actually hurt you unless you're in direct combat with the guard minibosses and, connotations aside, I think that given the context it's important to note that. Because your fight is with Ganondorf, yeah, and he's a Gerudo, yeah, but as far as we can tell, the Gerudo don't have any particular ongoing beef with the Hylians, and if I had to ascribe real-world terms to it, I feel like the implication buried under the orientalism inherent to the situation is that the Gerudo view the Hylians as citizens of a vassal state that is ruled by their king, and not as enemy combatants in an ongoing war. To them, Ganondorf assassinated the Hylian king, took control of Hyrule, and that was that. They're not allowed in en masse but if they can prove they have a half decent resume then they're fine, it's whatever.

Additionally, there's the part during the Spirit Temple where Navi is a racist little shit. When you enter the room with the giant Sand Goddess statue as an adult, she says that the face of the statue looks "evil." And you've already seen this room as a child so when I got to that dialogue I expected her face to actually be different in the future and it wasn't. She was still just sitting there, minding her business. Nice one, Navi. And what that line of dialogue is in a Doylist context is a hint that you're supposed to desecrate the Gerudo's temple in order to progress. Nice one, Link. (Side note, were Koume Kotake and Nabooru just... locked in that back room until someone came in and desecrated the temple? Cause like. There wasn't a fire exit or anything that I could see). But what it is in a Watsonian context is a reflection on the general Hylian view of the Gerudo and their gods, despite the fact that Navi is a fairy and not a Hylian.

So in the Gerudo Valley, the Gerudo aren't really all that hostile towards you, and you endear yourself to them pretty quickly. Link and Navi are more hostile than the Gerudo as a whole. And most of this interpretation is buried under implications and orientalist writing, but it's still important context for later.

So, progressing on to Ganondorf's castle and the final fight, we the player see that Ganondorf looks different than he did in the child timeline, and even looks different from the phantom version of him from the forest temple, before he put on his mask. And you see that his ears are pointy now. And I don't put a lot of stock into the ear racist in Castle Town in the child timeline, I don't think Hylians have pointy ears literally to hear the voices of the gods. Maybe that's just me, because I came from botw where the plot was Zelda the Hylian woman with pointy ears who is literally the incarnation of a goddess cannot hear gods despite her pointy ears, and totk where Link is the only one at Lookout Landing who can speak to the Bargainer, and only Link and Jerrin are able to hear the voice of the Horned God, both of whom are gods and despite the fact that Lookout Landing is crawling with pointy eared Hylians, so obviously whatever's going on with all that it's got jack shit to do with ear shape. But I do think the ear racist guy is, dev intended, just spouting racist bullshit the Hylians came up with to make themselves feel superior. So the choice to make post-triforce-acquisition Ganondorf's ears pointy is an interesting one, because the only thing about Ganondorf that we know changed in the past seven years was that he went into the sacred realm and acquired a piece of the triforce. And I'm not the first person to say that the triforce gave Ganondorf divine madness. Hell, I even knew about that interpretation going in to the game, but what the choice to alter Ganondorf's ears in the future does is it implies a reason for why everything just started getting bad in the adult timeline recently.

Cause you can go back to the child timeline in oot and everything's... fine. Like Ganondorf is in power, we haven't gone back to before that happened because the Deku Tree is still dead af and Zelda isn't in the courtyard, and occasionally the people in Castle Town will mention some sort of commotion at the castle that happened recently, but he didn't gain the Hylian throne and immediately start freezing Zoras and terrorizing Kokiri and genociding Gorons.

And none of this is ever touched upon directly by the narrative, it is entirely within the realm of implications, but at the very least it was enough to change my opinion on oot era Ganondorf from "Look at how he's designed, how compelling can he be?" to "oh, wait, actually there is something really interesting in here under all the racist writing"

Oot ganondorf is not a character that is particularly well written, Nintendo dropped the ball from his inception to the present day, but even if I don't necessarily share that disappointment, because my expectations were different, now that I've played oot and know what the quality of this character's bones really is and have a better picture of what kind of character people were expecting I can at least understand why people were disappointed when totk ganondorf was nothing like oot era ganondorf.