#between albw and zelda 1

[ultimateinferno]

I made a previous post about the nature of the Zelda timeline, but thinking back, how it all came together is very amusing.

Now "The fans care more about the timeline than Nintendo does" and "Nintendo never developed the games with a timeline in mind" are both true. However, that doesn't mean "all Zelda games are wholly unrelated and irrelevant to each other." Unfortunately, the reality of the matter is that Nintendo developed each game with one other game in mind and only one other game, and so by pure proxy all games naturally fall into a timeline despite the fact the people putting Echoes of Wisdom together didn't give Spirit Tracks much thought.

It's sort of a "proof by induction" kind of deal. Adventure of Link was deliberately written as a sequel to Zelda 1. A Link to the Past was developed as a prequel to Zelda 1. Links Awakening as a sequel to ALttP. Ocarina of Time as a prequel to ALttP (fleshing out backstory in its manual). Majora's Mask was a clear sequel to OoT. For the first 15-ish years a Prequel-Sequel pairing pattern was followed. When Oracles and Four Swords games were done, they didn't fit super neatly with the "main timeline," but they were also not made by Nintendo (they're Capcom games save for Four Swords Adventures but that springboarded off of Capcom's Zeldas).

Then, continuing, Wind Waker explicitly recounts Ocarina of Time in its prologue. Twilight Princess explicitly discusses Ocarina of Time's child ending after Arbiter's Grounds. Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks both explicitly refer to Wind Waker. Then, along comes Skyward Sword, the game developed with the entire Zelda franchise in mind. Paired with Hyrule Historia, giving us the modern timeline we know.

A Link Between Worlds is an explicit follow-up to A Link to the Past. Triforce Heroes is its funky little sibling. Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are the only ones that are truly unmoved by the other games. Hell, TotK is pretty unmoved by BotW too. All things considered, they're close to the exception rather than the rule.

The nature of the Zelda Timeline is neither super developed and rigid in its structure like more straightforward game franchises, nor is it apathetic of its kin, like Mario or Final Fantasy. It's a sprawling web where time and again, the developers take a dangling thread from one game to weave their own tapestry until at the end of it they made a fucked up, hyperbolic quilt with 5 squares to a vertex. You can't actually cut it out as they're pretty securely interwoven, but it's not going to lay flat either.

[marenwithanm]

I guess this is a Thing™ now cuz I keep finding more of these in my files lol.

Prev

[ordon-shield]

Link’s Houses Graded By How Liveable They Are

The Legend of Zelda/The Adventure of Link: 0/10, he doesn’t have one. Probably sleeps in caves.

A Link to the Past/Oracle games/Link’s Awakening: 6/10, surprisingly good! He’s got a bed, a place to cook food, tables and chairs, and even a set of shelves! He looses points because there’s no space for his uncle to live and it’s only one room.

Ocarina of Time/Majora’s Mask: 5/10, similar to the previous Link. He has a bed, a table with stools. While lacking any method of cooking, that’s probably for the best seeing as everything is made of wood. He also has a sink with a mirror. He looses a point due to the random hay and pitchforks though.

Four Swords: 0/10, he has no house.

The Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass: 4/10, while you might expect it to be higher, there are a number of flaws with his house. First is the fact that he must share it with his grandmother and little sister, and second is the lack of mattresses on their two beds. They also use their space poorly, as out of three areas in the house only one is being actively used — Grandma should have let Link use that loft as his bedroom. It’s not all bad though— they have a cooking fire and kitchen area.

Four Swords Adventures: 0/10, also has no house.

The Minish Cap: 7/10, the only truly multi-room house on this list! The bedroom has a bed for both Link and his grandfather, along with a table and stools. The main room downstairs is the kitchen, with a place to cook and shelves for plates and bowls. There’s also an entire forge connected to the building.

Twilight Princess: 10/10, the best house on this list in my opinion. Like in Ocarina of Time, there is a pitchfork inside, but this time it makes sense with Link’s background, and comes with some horse riding equipment for Epona. His cooking area is also set up to avoid any fires. He even has a sink for his dirty dishes, along with a table and chairs, and a few bookshelves. He also has a basement that he uses to store a bit of cash and some old furniture. The one flaw of this house is the lack of a bed, but this can be excused as Ordon is based in part on traditional Japanese culture, so he may just use a futon.

Spirit Tracks: 7/10, like an improved version of the ALttP house, with a bed for both Link and Niko, along with a cooking area, and plenty of room.

Skyward Sword: 8/10, rather than living in a house, this Link lives in the Knight’s Academy. He shares a divided room with another student. The only Link to have easy access to a bathroom, which counts for a lot.

A Link Between Worlds/Triforce Heroes: 5/10, very similar to his house in ALttP, containing a bed, table with stools, shelves, and a cooking area. While the lack of an uncle with no bed might have brought this house up to a higher standard, there’s one thing preventing that — the presence of a certain merchant who pushes all the furniture aside to set up his own shop.

Breath of the Wild: 7/10, a decent house brought down by the lack of a kitchen and the fact you have to buy it and the furniture inside at exorbitant prices from an annoying builder who sits around in your front garden once he’s done.

[zeliavee-art]

Day 1 of Linktober! Merchant

Buy him some stuff his bag is too heavy

[sweetzsuprise]

LINKTOBER DAY 1: MERCHANT

I couldn’t decide which merchant to draw so I decided both! With the Majora’s Mask being an Easter egg in ALBW how couldn’t they fight for ownership? (My quality 🥲🥲)

[asofspades]

Here's how it's going so far, I settled for the manga designs for OOT Zelda because she looks prettier and so far I have 10 Zeldas done and 7 left to draw.

It's getting late so I'll continue tomorrow

[blueblend]

I just think he's ✨️neat.✨️

(*gestures wildly to everything* I don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm having fun, and I think that's the point.)

[lesbean-zelda]

because I already made a 3d Zelda game poll, here's a 2d Zelda game poll!!

[raddest-hat-showdown]

🎩 Raddest Hat Battle👒

Ravio from A Link Between Worlds vs Carmen Sandiego from Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego

Round 2 Side 1

[lace4forest]

The Chains Ages in Linked Universe.

I saw people talking about the Chains age in Linked Universe, and I have my thoughts on them.

I've done a LOT of research on the Links and how old they were, I even tried to figure out how long Legend was in Koholint for. (We go with old Canon because new Canon doesn't make since,(Footnote 1) but basically that's the last time we see Legend in normal Zelda Canon)

Anyways-

This is from Jojo's QnA doc on the Linked Universe Discord- ^^^

And this is my thoughts on their ages. Side note, I'm not going off of looking up their ages through google, I'm going off info you can find in game and cross referencing it with other games and the Hyrule Historia and Encyclopedia. Time was 9 in his game and that's about 20 years later so he would be 29. (Unless if we counting Majora's Mask, then he could be 30-32)

Twilight was a "Late Teen" (Also it does state hold old he is) so 17 making him 21 to 22.

Warriors is also "Late Teen" (He was a trainee at the beginning of the war) making him 22 to 26

Sky is also stated to be around 17 making him 18 to 19

Wild is 117 and this would make him either almost 118 or just turned 118.

Legend just became "Of age" in ALBW and that's 16 in his era making 17.

Hyrule we know is 16 making him 18.

Four is 15 or 16 in Four Sword, but he isn't "Of age" so probably 15. making him 17.

And we know Wind is 13 almost 14. (He said it himself)

I just find it very funny the Toons are the youngests. Age explanation and footnotes below cut.

Time - He is 9 at the beginning of his game and becomes an "Adult" 7 years later at 16. This is one of the times it proves that 16 is "Of age" in the Zelda series. We aren't sure how much time has passed between Oot and MM, so we can guess he's 29 to 32 (Making Link in MM 10 to 12 as a good guess.)

Twilight - It's stated in a guide that he is 17. His game also was originally supposed to be a continuation of Oot and MM in the Wind Waker style, with Time all grown up and living on his own. But they changed it to what it is now. So it's just 17+4 or 5 making him 21 to 22.

Warriors - There is no official age and you do NOT need to be 17 to wield the master sword. All we know is that he's "Late Teens" making him between 16 to 19. Making his age in LU between 22 to 26.

Sky - He is stated to be around 17. Making him 18 or 19 (Even if we say he's 16, then he would be 17 to 19.)

Wild - he is 117 years old. We know this. it's been "Less than a year" so he could be almost 118 or already be 118, he probably doesn't remember his Birthday, so there is no saying exactly. (His Zelda should know though. Maybe.)

Legend - SO. I feel like people are gonna fight me on this, but I got the math and hours of research to back it. At the beginning of ALTTP, some guards say that Link shouldn't be out here or that he's too young to wield a sword (Or even start learning to) In BOTW Wild got the Master Sword at 12-13. And people said he was still very young and a prodigy, which means he was already learning the sword by that time. and we also know that in BOTW they think of "Of Age" as 17 instead of 16, meaning they probably make them learn stuff when they are a little older. There's also the connection to Oot, In Wind Waker its stated that Wind is the same age as Time when he Defeated Ganon (Making Wind Canonically 16) And Twilight is the age of what Time should have been when he decided to settle down, making him 17, which leaves us with Legend's age. Most likely taking Times age from the beginning of his game. LONG STORY SHORT- In ALTTP Link is between 9 to 10. NOW. The Oracle games, Link is still a CHILD, so before "Of Age" (Aka less than 16) A LOT of people call him a CHILD and wonder why he has a sword! making him most likely around 11 or 12. Same things with Link's Awakening. (FOOTNOTE 1). Then we have ALBW. Link has a job now and is learning to become a smith. so most likely after his return home, as well as he needs to learn this stuff before becoming a full adult, but then again he lives alone, so we could accurately say 15 to 16. SO LONGER STORY SHORT. We can say 16 and be GENEROUS. Making Legend 17 in LU (but probably closer to 16).

Hyrule - It's literally a plot in his game he is 16, making him 18 in LU.

Four - He is a Child in Minish Cap (So less than 16) and same with Four Swords. He has to be older than 12 because he was given a sword willingly. So between 13 to 15, but we can be nice and say 15 in Four Swords, making him 17 in LU.

Wind -

I do want to say, it's literally stated in his game he is the same age as Time when he KILLED Ganon as an ADULT. It's just the art style of the game.... He JUST turned 16, so people are still calling him a child. (Like how people call 18 year olds children in rl) But also he does look 12 in game... ART STYLE WHYYYYYY (also thats what Twi was supposed to look like lmaoooo)

---

FOOTNOTE 1 - The Encylapedia has wrong information that's easy to disprove and I want to throw it out a window. It also switched the order of the Oracle games and Link's Awakening, even though Oracle of Ages LITERALLY ENDS With Link taking the boat out to sea to head home, and LITERALLY Transitions to Link's Awakenings Opening. ITS THE SAME BOAT. I'm Gonna Cry- NINTENDO WHYYYYY.

[gaylactic-fire]

Ok so I PROMISE this is my last post on Link and Zelda height comparison, but having two popular posts about manlet Link that blew up I get notes every day like "Link is shorter in ALL the games." (Not true!! Misinformation!!) and also people complaining about the references I used. So I decided to actually put effort into finding good, side by side height comparisons. For my own sake, but also for artists who need references!

[BTW this is also solely based on in game models and not concept / promo art. Come to your own conclusion there, bc some art directly contradicts the models]

First off, pretty much all the pixel Zelda games have Link and Zelda's sprites in and around the same height, give or take. There's definitely wiggle room here for interpretation (Zelda 1 Link having one spare pixel dedicated to his hat and Zelda in Zelda 2 appearing like she's crouching) but overall it's safe to assume these Links and Zeldas are around the same height if you're staying faithful to the sprites.

Spirit Tracks, Twilight Princess and A Link Between Worlds Links are undeniably shorter than their Zeldas.

Wind Waker is kind of a weird one for me?? Tetra and Link don't have many shots of them standing together and I feel I'd have to open the game to get an accurate comparison (F to my WW copy in the attic). Originally I had stated Tetra was taller but they are actually very close. Tetra still looks taller by a tiny margin(?)

Ocarina Of Time is also difficult to pinpoint! Especially with Link's goofy ass triangle hair! Once again the margin is so slim it's hard to say, but looking at both Zelda and Sheik's models I would say Adult Link is ever so slightly taller.

Round of applause for Skyward Sword Link for being the only Link undeniably taller than his Zelda! Extremely funny that trend did not continue down the timeline.

Finally, Tears Of The Kingdom Link is not only shorter than his Zelda, but arguably has the most notable shortness in comparison to her (him and ALBW are joint contenders for that imo). Short king, manlet, little guy, etc.

[wayfayrr]

also this isn't really a request, more of a question: how do the 2d self-aware boys experience stuff like the screen and the fourth wall, i guess? i'm having a hard time picturing it. like for the 3d boys the camera is closer to them, but especially for hyrule, zelda 1 is top-down and zelda 2 switches between that and a side scroller. (also constantly thinking about the fact that when hyrule gets out of the game he is not expecting himself to be in any kind of definition. love that)

I think for the 2d boys they have a similar experience to legend in albw does when he's a painting. the times where they're facing the screen they can see ouit of it but the second they're made to turn away they only get the feeling of being watched from behind. it's hard to imagine and explain really (I also haven't thought plenty about it seeing as most of the focus has been on the 3d boys, though there is SO much to be done with the 2d lads too. I mean what, hyrule could have been trapped in a flat limbo for nearly 38 years now? that must have been hell) But the painting seems to be the best way of trying to place it and put a description too it (if anyone has any other ideas that'd be wonderful)

HYRULE THOUGH - oh the little fae boy, the one who started it all. Living out his existence on a tiny flat plane. he'd never seen as much detail as you in those glances he gets towards the screen, he's got the hardest time getting out too. He can't move closer to the screen, can't manipulate the camera, can't barely reach the edge of the screen. His only hope would be to try slipping out between the edge of the screen like a slip of paper. But once he does? when he has 'flesh' and 'bone'? poor guy doesn't know what to do, he's got no experience with any of this. He barely knows how to move beyond some tiny pixels now he has fingers, hands, arms, everything. things that he could have only dreamed of when looking at you.

remember how I said that sky or tears would be uncanny valley? not knowing how to breathe, blink and such? Hyrule would be so much worse. at the start he doesn't know how to move properly, having to be taught how to move his limbs like a ball jointed doll (hehe fitting for him) as he fumbles trying to learn, mimicking your movements before trying it out himself and watching your horror as he pushes the limits, trying to contort and bend past where it should be able. please take him to a hospital if he breaks something

[marenwithanm]

Found this in my files lol. Sort of a sequel to this, now including the four swords links and botw

[bluesdesk]

Hello and sorry again for being late! Here's round 11, with only 6 games left! We can say these are for sure the best Zelda games, they're all almost equally good and the choice depends on personal likings, for example Wind Waker vs Twilight princess for colors and art style! Or Breath of the Wild vs Skyward Sword for fighting style and story! Though Ghirahim is the best villain ever. Fight me.

As for Minish Cap, I'm so glad it reached this poit. I loved it. As I said, maybe not as much as albw but the art style is really gorgeous! And we have one of the few games in which Link and Zelda are childhood friends and close! It gets better in the italian translation because they're not only friends but also related, Smith there is both the uncle of Link and Zelda! Of course worldwide Smith is known as Link's grandpa so maybe he's Zelda's great-uncle!

Back to the poll, remember to vote the game you think is the worst out of these in the list! Please don't vote a game if you don't know it! Knowing means having played the game (even not completed), watched a gameplay, read the wiki! Having read the manga is ok too, I can't think of any other things rn but I hope you got what I mean :D

Reblogs are appreciated, since for obvious reasons I won't tag this as Linked Universe, but the majority of my interactions come from that fandom!

<< Previous round

Rankings under the cut!

The CDIs

Triforce Heroes

Zelda 2

Hyrule Warriors / Legends / Definitive

Cadence of Hyrule

Zelda 1

Four Swords Adventures

Four Swords

Oracle of Seasons/Ages

Age of Calamity

Phantom Hourglass

Link's awakening/LANS

Spirit Tracks

Tears of the Kingdom

A link to the Past

A link between worlds

The Minish Cap

[headfullofgalaxies]

I want to write a review of Echoes of Wisdom, but I keep going into a tangent about where I think the game falls in the timeline. So, I'm going to write up my theory here and get it out of my system, because I have *~*~*OPINIONS*~*~* on this and I WILL BE HEARD.

Let's get one out of the way first before we delve deep into it.

I know that Nintendo doesn't really care about the timeline. Nintendo barely even cares about its own LORE. Even the basic stuff! There are literally the only two things every Zelda game has in common: the little gremlin named Link who wears a green tunic and the world's dumbest hat, and the quest to save the world from some evil force. That's it. Those are the only things! The Tri Force doesn't show up in every game. Ganon/Ganondorf doesn't show up in every game. ZELDA doesn't show up in every game! Hell, the Master Sword is only in, like, HALF of the games! So, yes , the canon timeline is nonsense but I'm going to play with it like the fun little toy it is.

Anyways... *pulls out conspiracy board* on to the fun stuff.

So, first and foremost, which branch of the timeline is Echoes of Wisdom on?

The Downfall Timeline.

How do we know this?

1) The map

Many parts of the map are copy-paste from the original ALttP/ALBW games. If you've played those games, you can find some fun Easter Eggs and stumble across side quests early by going to places from those earlier games. So, this game would take place in a similar Hyrule. And, as both these games are in the Downfall Timeline, it is the most logical choice.

2) Ganon

The Downfall Timeline is the only timeline that features exclusively Ganon (beast form Ganondorf).

hides Four Swords Adventures under the rug

THE ONLY ONE.

This is because, after successfully gathering the full Triforce with the Hero's defeat, Ganondorf fully transforms into the Demon King, leaving behind his human form entirely and taking on the name Ganon instead.

3) That stupid hat

Look, yes the old Game Theory Zelda Timeline video is kinda... stretching it at places, but the hat thing is a pattern. And one of the hats this Link has features a prominent, yellow stripe.

So now that we know WHICH timeline EoW is in, we need to figure out WHERE.

So the Downfall Timeline is split between three Heroes' eras:

The Hero of Legend (ALttP, LA, and OOA/OOS)

The New Hero of Hyrule (ALBW and TFH)

The Hero of Hyrule (LoZ and AoL)

why does the new hero of hyrule come before the hero of hyrule? idk your guess is as good as mine.

For simplicity's sake, I will be calling the eras Legend, New Hero, and Hyrule. We'll call EoW's era Echoes.

So the map is based off the Hyrule in Legend and New Hero. Hyrule's map has some things in common, but it's not nearly as similar. It makes the most sense to loop Echoes in with Legend and New Hero, putting it sometime BEFORE Hyrule.

Now the question is how before Hyrule? Is it before Legend, between it and New Hero, or after both of them?

The answer comes by taking a closer look at the similar land marks and temples on the map. In Legend and New Hero, the temples are in good condition. However, in Echoes, some of the temples are showing some wear. One of them is even broken down completely. With all that, it makes sense that it comes after both Legend and New Hero, but before Hyrule.

Another thing that lends credence to this theory is the Master Sword. The Master Sword is present in all three timelines, to varying degrees. In the Adult Timeline, Wind Waker Link stabbed Ganondorf with it and left the sword at the bottom of the ocean with the rest of Hyrule. In the Child Timeline, it's used by the heroes to challenge Ganondorf. kicks Four Swords Adventures back under the rug

However, its presence in the Downfall Timeline is weird. The Master Sword is present in both Legend and New Hero, but notably absent in Hyrule. Where did it go?

Well, if Null is as aware of the cycle of reincarnation as it implies (having specifically targeted children to catch the hero and princess before they could challenge it), then it stands to reason it would know about the Master Sword, too. And if it nommed the Master Sword with a rift, that would easily explain why the sword is no longer present in the Downfall Timeline.

So that concludes my theorizing on the location of Echoes of Wisdom's location in the timeline. Now that that's out of the way, I can actually write my review of the game without worrying about this tangent.

(side note: for the purposes of Links Meet AUs, I think it's perfectly acceptable to combine this Link and Zelda into another era. The Hero of Legend era is the funniest and my personal preference, but the New Hero of Hyrule era would probably be easier writing-wise.)

[passenger-girl]

Echoes of Wisdom spoilery thoughts on world building below!

I love the EoW Dekus! Love to see them in their wet jungle home. Probably the best place to put them, it fits with the swampy aesthetic they've been known to inhabit before. I also love how they, the ones living in the jungle, call everyone else "bumpkins."

The interactions between the two types of Zora was also something I had always wanted to see. I can see why, for a game keeping younger audiences in mind, they chose to keep the conflict between the two as simple as musical taste. The River Zora were kinda originally designed to look conventionally ugly, they were originally monsters as early as Zelda 1, so it very easily could have gone much farther with them being seen more monstrous than the Sea Zora. I suppose with the way Zelda timelines work you can assume that with these two types of Zora existing at once, any of the possible in-world racism around the two was already worked out in the past so as not to be depicted in a game. It's amazing how much of a difference just giving them the same dot eyes as any other of the races does, they're actually very cute this time around!

Seeing more Goron traditions is always neat as well! They're still as Goron as ever, and I think they did a good job with the Gerudo as well.

As for the map, I love that it is very clearly based on ALttP. It's pretty much 1:1, the main differences I noticed being that they extended the area past where the map cuts off in that game to put homes for the races that weren't in that game of course, but ALttP Kakariko Village looks like it is now some ruins in its place and they moved their new village closer to where the Gorons live. Oh and Link's house is no longer just south of Hyrule Castle but in that new Suthorn Village they added in the newly extended map area. This leads me to believe that this game is very clearly in the downfall timeline somewhere, likely a good bit after ALBW for that Kakariko to be in a ruined state. The map being extended like this also makes it seem like maybe those races existed back during those games as well, Link just never needed to explore so far out as to come across them.

A bit surprised to not see any Rito though, those guys still seem to be a mystery outside of the adult timeline and of course BotW/TotK, probably by design. They're probably meant to be a pleasant surprise to WW fans whenever they do manage to appear.

Grezzo hit it out of the park with the world building in this game in my opinion. I'm absolutely looking forward to seeing them make more games like this one, whether they work on more Zelda or set them in worlds entirely of their own design!