#i think to do that i'm going to have to sideline the romantic aspect of their relationship and focus on the plot

[glowingreverie]

.

[ca-suffit]

I've never really gotten why people are so into Loustat. Maybe if you only read the books? But in the show they're just not happy most of the time. And of course there's the whole domestic violence aspect of it. Whereas Loumand WERE happy together most of the time. They had interesting discussions, enjoyed art together, had long walks, and were sexually compatible. Yes of course there's the horror with Claudia, but as a couple, they were happy. So what's up with that?

it's hard to know where to start to answer this cuz there's so much I could get into. I'm gonna skip the book history cuz wiki is right there, but yah it's basically a book thing. they were the relationship that ppl wanted to see the most, bcuz they started the series (which wasn't a planned series to begin with) and ppl wanted to see them grow and heal their issues. anne rice had personal grief issues attached to their creation and louis in particular. that's why he's moved aside for a lot of the series but does return more in the end as a main, romantic focus.

all the vampires are p polyamorous, so even if there's main focuses at times, they are constantly moving around each other. loustat *are* going to be the underlying show focus, they've said, and they don't have to sideline louis like the books did if they don't want to. I expect they'll make him more prominent and generally make a better flowing story in a lot of ways than the books.

loumand is v short in the books but it's similar to the show in that louis is seeking someone who he thinks has more answers to life's meaning than lestat ever gave. the show deepens that a bit more too by making them both men of color who would understand similar ways of surviving in the world than lestat as a white man understood.

(as an aside to all the book stuff too, it has to be said that part of the fandom's preference of loustat is bcuz it's a relationship that has a white man in it tbh. it's not like ALL loustat ppl are racist or anything, but "loumanders" has been used in place of a racial slur here for a while so it's still def part of it from some. ppl will always say it's not racist, it's from the books....but........it v obviously both sometimes)

the show has also drastically changed the timeline of these relationships as well. the books had loustat lasting 60-70 years for the IWTV arc of it. loumand...I can't remember the exact time, if it's given, but it's a LOT shorter. the show has rly fleshed out both relationships in ways much more than the books give us.

re: the DV. armand is also abusing louis too tho. the show's addition of the drop is new but louis and lestat physically fight in the books a lot, and lestat is emotionally abusive. however, armand is abusive too, with his ability to get in other vampire's heads. the book relationship feels entirely forced in a lot of ways tbh. bcuz of louis' connection to humanity (idk if this is outright stated or my own thoughts), he's easy to mentally manipulate as a vampire. it happens a few times to him, but armand is the first.

so armand and lestat are kind of two sides of the same coin in a lot of ways. as individuals and as partners to louis.

I am interested to see where the show takes them all, bcuz lestat and armand *also* have a history.

I think the show is doing and will do a better job at exploring all these relationships and growing them out. where loustat is now won't always be who they are, same for whatever loumand becomes. all of these vampires still exist around each other in some capacity, bcuz their community is so small. they all have a history with each other somehow. the books never explored that v well but I expect the show to do it. claudia's death hangs over all of them and it's never addressed with armand again in the books, so I'm wondering how the show will do it. but it's an event and a grief (at least for loustat) that connects them all forever and is a major player in how loustat exist forever after and talk about themselves too.

so I literally don't blame anyone for disliking loustat for where it's at rn. I mean, u don't have to ever like it tbh! but we're v early for seeing all of this and getting the foundation for where the story is going from here on. I obviously don't know for sure, either, but this is the start of where everything else will branch off.

a lot of book ppl are trying to cram everything into the first series mainly bcuz ppl don't like seeing lestat being judged the way he is. but....this is supposed to be a long series? everything is not going to happen in S1 and S2 that mainly stem from book 1. I wish ppl could just relax and let the story tell itself. there were years in between the books being published, sometimes not even knowing another book was coming at all. the show is telling its own story and it's ok to go at the pace of where it's leading us.

omg this was long. idk if I rambled more than answered anything but lol. u can always ask more if u want.

[seeingteacupsindragons]

“(For what it's worth, I don't see Mrgh bits of this aspect in the canon. I have see a lot of aphobia in fanworks for this series)” if you don’t mind, can you please expand on this? :)

This is such a deeply complicated question!

Romance (as a genre) and fandom both have widespread aphobia problems in general. Society does, and because of fandom's focus on sex, romance, and shipping, and romance's focus on the same really bring a lot of those biases out unexamined. Even among fandom people who are a-spec, a lot of them haven't really examined or dealt with those identities in a way that allows for a lot of unpacking of biases. Unpacking biases really requires participating in a community centered around the marginalization, and many of them have fandom-centered communities, or IRL communities of another type.

Unless you follow a blog like mine, where I've been actively involved in the aro and ace communities entirely separately from any fandom activities for a decade, I don't think a lot of fandom people are exposed to this kind of thought and study. And it is a whole field of study, truly. So they just end up parroting the same biases from the rest of society without realizing what they're doing, even if they know words or something.

As for YuuMori, and why I don't find a lot of problematic content on this particular subject (because there are definitely messages it's had I don't agree with or moments that ruffled my feathers the wrong way--it's far from perfect), there's a lot to talk about.

Primarily, YuuMori is not a series that focuses on sex or romance. It's a crime and mystery shonen series. There are almost no canon romantic relationships, and most of them are fairly sidelined. And even with Sherliam, which has so much narrative and canon support for a romantic reading, their relationship is not special because it is romantic. It is, potentially, romantic because it is special (and oh boy is that an a-spec understanding).

YuuMori is in so many ways a celebration of weird and undefined relationships. It's a celebration and has focus on relationships that society is just going to find weird, off-putting, and unacceptable. And that's so queer, and I love that, and while I can't say it's specifically queer on purpose without a very candid conversation with the creators discussing things they haven't yet discussed publicly, it's rich and wonderful and very Relationship Anarchy, which is very common among a-spec people.

In sum, YuuMori is just not a series that dismisses or marginalizes ace or aro experiences. It is not a series that idolizes romantic or sexual relationships. It is not, even, one that finds them particularly necessary.

But once this series comes in contact with fandom, especially in the West, people...start ignoring that. Suddenly Moran and William's weird relationship becomes romantic or sexual, and Albert and William's relationship becomes weird and sexual, and Louis and William's relationship becomes weird and sexual. And on and on. And each of these individually: not a big deal. But when it becomes so omnipresent, it's tiring. It's a cultural swarm of material that adds up to a lot a-spec people feeling once again alienated and dismissed.

And people start obsessing over what romance might be canon and why and which ship makes sense and why and which one is most fun to discuss and why and what does everything think about the sexy and romo potential of things. This is just a fandom thing, but it's just very tiring.

Sherliam's relationship is, of course, the core relationship in the series. So of course fandom focuses on it a lot. But wowwww, the way it becomes the only thing people focus on...

I'm tired.

And as for (a non-exhaustive list of) specific things in this fandom that really bother me on this topic and which I find hurtful as an a-spec person:

Any time people refer to Sherliam's relationship (or any romantic ship) as deeper or more important or more than their relationships with other people (because it is romantic, obviously). That's just a direct aggression, micro or otherwise depending on context, against a-spec people. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. Please stop writing things like this, just in general. Different. Other. Not more.

Goddamn stop referring to wanting sex as being human or normal or healthy. Please do not explain an attraction as, "well, I'm a man," or "well, I'm human," or "well, I have needs." Just. Just, fuck off with all of that. This is, once again, something from greater society, but I see it so much here.

Once more, Sherliam's relationship is potentially romantic and sexual because it is special. It is not special because it is potentially romantic or sexual. Yesus Christ, relationshipsp are often special for other reasons.

Any time a character (WIlliam, Louis, Fred, maybe) is referred to as growing up or becoming adult or learning about relationships or whatever because they want to engage with these things when they didn't before

Ignoring the rich specialness of each relationship to make it romantic. Even when making them romantic, they have such interesting richness and different dynamics, like real romantic couples each have their own special quirks.

All these fucking asks I get asking about which person is "most" important to Sherlock or William or whatever. There is no reason to put relationships in these kinds of hierarchies. We can have it all, and no one relationship could or should be prioritized in such a way that all others can or will be abandoned.

Why do I get so many asks seeking canon support for their ship. Please just ship your thing.

Why do I get so many asks I get asking about shipping things? Did I piss off a god in a previous life? I want to talk about storytelling and narrative, goddammit, not speculate on the potential for romantic pairings. It's another one of those things where culturally is just focusing so much on one thing to the point of marginalizing other things.

[lesbianwyllravengard]

I KNOW you wanna talk about Wyll. Or if someone else gives you Wyll do Karlach

No one's asked me at all so I'll do both DHHDSFFH <333 (ask game here)

How I feel about this character

Wyll and Karlach are both my faves I would give my heart and soul for them I need them both desperately I want to eat them whole eat them out etc etc I'm absolutely obsessed with them

All the people I ship romantically with this character

Wyll - Astarion

Karlach - Minthara

My non-romantic OTP for this character

Funny because my nonromantic OTP for Wyll and Karlach is each other. They are best friends they are platonic soulmates there isn't a universe in which they wouldn't find and befriend each other. Their bond is unbreakable they will love each other until the end of time and even beyond

My unpopular opinion about this character

Uhhhh I don't think I have one? My opinion on both of them is that they are perfect and can do no wrong and they are the best characters and also the hottest. If any of that's unpopular then people have bad taste

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.

Wyll - spoilers obviously but I'm forever killing Larian for not tying him to Ansur in any way despite it being his literal end quest. I wanted to see Wyll with a new "The Great Old One" warlock pact where the spirit of Ansur is his new patron. Or perhaps draconic sorcerer Wyll where Ansur's spirit inhabits Wyll's magic. I wanted to see dragon rider Wyll (in any sense of the word...) and at the very fucking least I wanted to see Wyll's quest actually be his own quest instead of being derailed and taken over by a certain shitty character and his centuries long dragon-divorce. They had every chance to drive home how he parallels Balduran but ultimately is what Balduran could never be. He's the heart of the fucking gate for Christ's sake. Also he should get to kill Mizora it's not fair that you can kill Cazador but not Mizora

Karlach - um I'm forever mad about how they treated her entire storyline actually. Why tf would you use a D&D setting and then deny the players any D&D mechanics that would actually save her??? They just ignore massive aspects of D&D so they can have a convenient sad narrative for her and it drives me crazy. Also, they act like her soul is bound to Zariel yet she thinks death would let her escape Zariel, so which is it. Tbh I just want to see her be able to actually be saved within the canon game, not just a sprinkle of "oh maybe we can fix her engine later". Like this is her entire questline and it's. Never resolved. She also deserves to have more lines/scenes reacting to gortash, especially when you play as the dark urge, because she's just sidelined for whatever the hell they have going on. Like I should be rolling strength or dex checks to hold her back from killing him immediately.

[soulsam]

Ask game!! For Sam and Dean both:

What's something the fandom does when it comes to this character that you like?

What's something the fandom does when it comes to this character that you despise?

OMG HELLO TUMBLR USER SPNTRUNK???? WHAT AN HONOR

I will ramble about my samdean thoughts ANY TIME so thank you for indulging me lol

1a. for sam, I loooove when the fandom acknowledges and magnifies his obsession with dean. he's slightly quieter about it (he doesn't go around yelling YOU TOUCH MY BROTHER AND ILL KILL YOU the way dean does) but that doesn't make him any less codependent or any less freakish!!!!!! he is JUST as insane about dean as dean is about him, and I LOVE to see that explored

1b. for dean, I love fandom discussions of his experiences with romance and sex and what they mean to him. I feel like the show mostly goes "dean sleeps around lol" and leaves it at that, but sometimes you get a glimpse of something else (cassie, lisa), and I always found those parts to be extremely intriguing. because dean can be such a hopeless romantic!!! he just doesn't let himself have good things, he holds them at arms length so that when he inevitably loses them it might not hurt so much. it's so heartbreaking and I could write academic essays about it probably. (as a sidenote, this aspect of his character is part of why I love samdean so much. he and sam have their moments, they've been separated by thousands of miles and death itself and it hurts dean terribly, but they always find their way back to each other. sam is the one person who dean has never really lost, not forever. and now that they're in their shared(!!!!) heaven, he never will.)

2a. I am going to have to try so so so so so hard not to write an essay about this one. the way the wider fandom treats sam makes my blood BOIL. tossing him to the side, pretending he doesn't exist, saying dean would be better off without him, etc. I hate all of it. I hate the way he gets sidelined in his own story, and the worst part is that THE SHOW ITSELF DOES IT TOO. SO I CANT EVEN BLAME THE STUPID FANDOM ENTIRELY. but if I had to pick one thing that I hate the most about the fandom's treatment of sam...I think I would be unoriginal and choose the purgatory debacle. there are just so many reasons why he shouldn't be blamed so harshly for the way he handled that time period. like. 1. he had JUST gotten hallucifer out of his head. he was having psychotic episodes so bad he nearly DIED, he barely even knew what was real and what was a hallucination. 2. he was ALONE. bobby was dead, dean and cas were, by all accounts, dead. his whole family was GONE. I can't even imagine the grief he must have endured in that time. I wouldn't be surprised if he had been suicidal, or if he'd had another psychotic break. and 3. WHERE WAS HE SUPPOSED TO GO LOOKING? he had no reason to think that dean SURVIVED the dick-splosion, and even if he was certain he had, sam KNOWS how dangerous it is to open the door to purgatory. and he couldn't exactly ask cas about it, could he? what was he supposed to do, summon crowley? yeah I'm sure that would've gone great. plus, 4. he and dean AGREED not to look for each other. sure, they make and break those kinds of promises often, but come the fuck on. how is it fair to ask sam, hopeless and alone and barely even functional enough to stand on his own two feet, to defy the promise he and dean made in order to bring him back from the dead and probably let something else nasty out along with him? that hardly seems reasonable to me.

um. I got heated about that one. anyway everyone lay off sam about purgatory okay. including dean. I get why he was upset but man cmon.

2b. this one's going to be shorter because I'm pissed about purgatory now lol but I hate when people make dean out to be some kind of. horrific wifebeater (and sam his battered, trapped woman). like. yeah. he's got anger issues and violent tendencies. yes, he often fails to break the cycle of abuse. yes, he lashes out at sam, and that's bad. but like. sam doesnt need protection from dean??? sam doesnt need liberation from dean???? dean isn't some horrible monster who belittles his brother for shits and giggles. he's a man who's seen way too much, lost way too much. it hurts to look at the ways he's changed, but he's doing the best he fucking can. also, pet peeve!! I HATE HATE HATE when people point to the behavior he exhibited while he had the mark of cain and go "see!! see!!! it was inside him all along!!!! he's a terrible person!!!!" LIKE. UM. HES LITERALLY BEEN SADDLED WITH AN ANCIENT CURSE. I DONT THINK ITS FAIR TO PROJECT ITS EFFECTS ONTO HIS CHARACTER, ACTUALLY. it annoys me soooooo bad. like did they miss the parts where he tried everything he could to keep his urges under control? did they miss the horrified look he'd have on his face after he went on a killing spree he couldn't stop? it's willful ignorance, and I hate that shit!!! I hate it!!!!!

genuinely though. and maybe this is silly to say after all that rambling. I don't want to be negative here. I love my (our!!) little corner of this fandom and I genuinely unironically love this show with every fiber of my being. it's my favorite piece of media ever and maybe that's partly just recency bias but like. I had sworn off live action TV for weird personal reasons (if you go looking, I have a personal post saying I refused to reblog spn posts because I didn't want gifs of real people on my blog. lmao) and yet here I am. I love this show. I love the wincest fandom. I love my mutuals. and as soon as I finish the finale I'm probably just going to start the whole damn thing over again.

oh also SPNTRUNK I LOVE YOUR ART !!! WTF!!!! HI???? IM STILL KIND OF IN AWE LOL

[emblazons]

hi marie, its me again <3 the anon with byler doubt haha ... you made such great points! and tysm for such a thorough response.

I am SO CURIOUS how do you think they'll get Mike and Will together? I think that's the aspect that has me doubting the most because it feels so so MESSY and they can very easily mess it all up if they aren't careful.

Explaining Mike's internalized homophobia etc might be something too difficult to unpack in just one season, on top of everything else going on as well with the world literally ending. I also don't know what the point was of having Mike say he loved Eleven if it wasn't true, what do you think they were trying to achieve with that?

Do we truly think she'd be okay with breaking up with Mike? And if the answer is yes, how will that affect Mike and El's dynamic going forward, you think? Will they really not only break up milkvan, but leave elmike underdeveloped in favor of Byler?

I look at the Steve/Nancy/Jonathan love triangle and that has been a mess for seasons now and still no resolution, so I don't know how they'll do it for Mike and Will. I fear they'll go for the "easy route" (aka milkvan endgame) to focus on the supernatural and other characters more. Because if Byler is endgame I feel like they'd need to devote a great chunk of the season to them in order to explain wth is going on with Mike specifically + giving him closure with El.

I suppose something else that gives me doubt is how Mike and Will have been sidelined in these last few seasons to give more screentime/protagonism to other characters and dynamics, so I don't know if I can fully believe the Duffers care THAT much about romantic!Byler if that makes sense.

Hopefully this all doesn't sound overly pessimistic or something, I am genuinely curious about your thoughts in some of these more like looking for reassurance tbh! Especially after reading your response to my first ask <3 TYSM once again!!

hello again!

To be honest, you've got a lot of questions that require separate (and equally detailed) responses, but...let me see if I can briefly explain each, and maybe link to other analyses I've done that might help make sense of why I say.

note: some of these are just my frankest opinions unfiltered, but I do have analytical reasons for all of them. Your questions are also asking things it's taken several rewatches and a year to sort through so...apologies if you just get the simplest version of the idea delineated here haha. also, a cut, because this got really long.

1: How do you think they'll get Mike and Will together? Transparently? I'm not really all that into specifics, because expecting specific things means I'm going to fall into the trap of thinking I'm the one writing it when I'm not and then say The Duffers "lied" or "messed up" because I expected something they never put in there. That said—in terms of plain setup, they will need to address the painting because that was a critical plot point from damn near minute one of S4, and now it's become fully integrated with not only Will's feelings for Mike, but Mike's own sense of El's feelings for him.

Beyond that...I think El will need to be the one to initiate the "complete" breakup, because she's the one who wanted space in the first place, the one who is repeatedly having her romantic partner paralleled to parental and tragic figures, the one refuses to be vulnerable & who built lies into their relationship...and the one whose general arc centers around reclaiming autonomy and choice from the men in her life. I also think Mike will be the one to initiate the romantic aspect, if its not a bit mutual.

2: Mike's internalized homophobia etc might be something too difficult to unpack in just one season - I disagree. We managed to sort through introducing Will's romantic feelings and sense of his queerness in a single season just fine...and Mike has had queer-coding show up throughout every season if you know what you're looking for.

The fact that this boy already has a one way sign into his closet, has repeatedly yelled about "boys only" every season AND shows clear signs of male attraction already has most people (even the supposed 'GA') suspicious of his sexuality, and combined with his devotion to will + the wider context, there are plenty of ways to introduce the idea of him liking boys explicitly that don't require any intense delineation...unless you expect them to say "he's gay" out loud, which they didn't do when Robin came out, and still haven't done for Will either...despite everyone knowing damn well they're gay.

3: I also don't know what the point was of having Mike say he loved Eleven if it wasn't true - I think that most of the breakdowns I've done of parentified!mike make clear that the love he has for her is somewhat genuine...though its being written as misplaced familial love, because he spent so much time believing he needed "a girl" to assuage his insecurities.

While I absolutely lean toward a gay!Mike reading myself, it's still clear even without a label that Mike's love mirrors Hopper's more than it resembles any of the love given by potential romantic partners to other women across the show—and Mike, given that he was being told by Will that El needed him to say he loved her for her to win, did what he thought was necessary to help her.

I do not think his love for her is a lie—I simply think it isn't romantic, and has now been so conflated with something negative in El's mind that it wouldn't matter if he mean't it romantically anyway. That said: narratively, Mike had to say he loved El because unless the fullness of what was expected (an I love you) was accomplished, it would hang over the story and any relationship Byler might have. El needed to hear it...so she could reject it, which she did.

4: Do we truly think she'd be okay with breaking up with Mike? yes. I think El will be absolutely 300000% just fine being broken up with Mike lmao. She has Hopper back now (who she was mourning the loss of, and therefore looking to fill with Mike emotionally), on top of having Max's "there's more to life than stupid boys" at the fore of her mind saving her.

Mike is also paralleled to parental and abusive figures in El's mind, on top of the fact that she has been keeping him at an emotional distance for the entirety of S4. Given that she and Lucas will probably also get closer in the search for Max...I'm quite sure she's not going to take it as hard as people imagine, especially given the fact that we already know she was happiest in S3 when they were broken up.

I also don't have any expectation of ElMike being super close friends (beyond party bonds + civility) either, which...I mean if you are I apologize but. I don't see that happening in canon, so them being developed deeply as friends before the show ends is not important to me as a plot point, and doesn't really have any canonical backing considering their ongoing lack of platonic connection outside of the necessary + lack of common interest. That's even a note thematically in the show...which means its makes sense for them not to be that close by the end of the narrative.

5: Steve/Nancy/Jonathan love triangle and that has been a mess for seasons now and still no resolution, so I don't know how they'll do it for Mike and Will. Truth be told, that love triangle has a resolution—Nancy has chosen Jonathan, and continues to, even though she flirted with Steve when she felt lonely. Nancy's arc has always centered around choosing something different than her parents and has from S1—her brief flirtation with Steve aside, her loyalty to Jonathan hasn't changed, though they are absolutely not a perfect couple.

If anything, the end of S4 set up Jonathan and Steve learning to be friends less so than anything implying Nancy might choose Steve instead—Jonathan is finally in a narrative position to choose something for himself now which frees him up to be honest with Nancy, and even outside of that, Nancy is far more likely to end up with single than she is with Steve—which is the exact opposite of how they've set up Mike to be with Will rather than El over the course of the season.

6: I fear they'll go for the "easy route" (aka milkvan endgame) to focus on the supernatural and other characters more. I don't agree. The supernatual plot has always been well-integrated with the romantic elements in every couple across the board, from Mike's "first love lost" energy happening when El disappeared in S1, Lumax bonding in S2 in a fight with demodogs, Jancy's bonding across S2-3 happening in the lab seeing the gate, while Will was un-possessed, and while they fought the thing monster in the hospital....and Jopper in Russia fighting a demogorgon in S4.

The Duffers have never slacked in setting up their romances in conjunction with the supernatual plots, and there's no reason to think they're gonna start with Byler, especially given Will's mirroring of Vecna/Henry, the way the day his disappeared is the day the UD is frozen, and how he's the one who can sense him...while now having Mike glued to his side.

7: if Byler is endgame I feel like they'd need to devote a great chunk of the season to them in order to explain wth is going on with Mike specifically + giving him closure with El. The 5th season is going to bring all of the characters together again, and they've already said Will is central to that. I've written before about the reason why they had to sideline Will in their plot to make a narrative point, but regardless...like I said before, if you know how to read subtext, Mike being queer won't come as all that much of a surprise.

Note: I've done several (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) analyses on Mike and his arc, which might help.

Beyond that...again, I honestly don't think The Duffers care much to make ElMike besties like fanon seems to think they should be (they haven't done it with any of the other romantic couples they've broken up) so...closure can include civility and acceptance for them the way it did S2 Steve with Jancy, imo. What Mike needs most is to gain the courage to accept himself and realize he doesn't need a girl to assuage his insecurities—and him being casual friends with El the same way he is casually supportive canonically with Max makes more sense than trying to skirt over all the mess of their relationship for the sake of an attached fandom ☠️

—that was a lot to cover, but hopefully that cleared up my position on a lot of your questions? I would also encourage you to take a look at my ST commentary tag & analyses highlights list (soon to be updated again) and even my asks for more context, on top of maybe giving the show a rewatch in its entirety if you can.

Sidebar: I also encourage you to dig into my Duffer Brothers tag and commentary (see bottom of the page), because knowing who made the show is just as helpful as understanding the show itself.

Its really easy to get caught in other people's wants and headcanons for the show if you don't keep going back to it yourself, so—as lovingly as possible, I really do encourage you to just sit and watch it with the "byler knowledge" you have from users like me, your other fave analysts, and maybe some of the "old guard" like @kaypeace21, who was integral in my own development of opinions before I dug in for myself. If you're ever doubting, that's always your best bet.

That said: It's literally impossible to summarize a framework crossing nearly 37 hours of TV in a single ask (or even 20)...which is why I've got almost a year worth of posts about it (and have evolved my depth of understanding dramatically over time).

The same way you can't spark notes your way through a degree without missing a lot of context, even me saying this with evidence won't help a lot if you haven't dug into it yourself—and doubt will repeatedly creep in if you're trusting me over the show itself, even though the show is where I've pulled all this from lmao.

—this got really long, but....I hope it helped. And again, sorry if I seemed short anywhere lmao. This was a lot to cover. Still, as always, thanks for the ask!

[matchstickdolly]

Lucifer 5B: Cutting off Touch to Spite Your Fans

Spoiler warning: This post assumes you've watched all of Lucifer, season 5, part B.

CW: There's plenty I like about season 5, but this is a negative post. I know not everyone is up for negativity about the things they love. I also generally avoid it and (try to) keep my mouth shut about things I don’t like in most spaces. It’s good etiquette. But this is my space, and I have thoughts specifically about purity culture and the treatment of sexuality and trauma in fiction. You’ve been warned!

---

I'm a professional writer (not in TV). I've worked with enough bad clients, editors, and other writers to recognize some hallmark behaviors in how both Fox and Netflix gave Lucifer's writers incredibly difficult, unfair, and frankly weird situations to create through.

Fox did them dirty, interfering and ordering too many eps in S3. Netflix did them dirty, ordering 10 eps for S4 when it clearly needed ~13. Then Netflix ordered 10 "final" eps for S5—then, just kidding(!), 6 more after they'd done their writing for the 10. (What the fuck?) And then Netflix ordered 10 more for a "final-final" S6 after the writers had done their best to tell their whole story in S5. (MORE what the fuck.)

Talk about whiplash for creators, and half of those who consume content don't even care to understand such creative pain.

So, there are problems on multiple fronts. There's much I'll forgive writers, accordingly. I go into most shows expecting plotting/pacing issues. I look, instead, for characters and relationships that will triumph over those issues.

Heart is what the show Lucifer has always had in spades, both in its characters and in the immensely committed, wonderful ways the actors have tried to realize the characters' humor, love, trauma, and—most importantly—struggle to find healing. Yet, when given the opportunity to show health alongside another in a relationship, the writers/directors of 5B chose to remove most sexual humor and physical intimacy from their female lead and bi/pan characters to, I feel, sanitize them and troll fans. What happened?

Well, for one, say hi to showrunner Joe Henderson bragging about how the writers decided to be colossal dicks to the fans who helped secure their jobs:

From CBR's 'Lucifer Showrunner Joe Henderson Dissects Season 5B's Chaos'

Have we not suffered sidelined/repressed female characters, "bury your gays," and, oh, Chloe fucking a serial killer enough? Must we also say hello to neutered relationships once characters find stable love (whether same or opposite sex)? The result of withdrawing more sexual humor and physical intimacy from paired characters is an uncomfortable suggestion that they're reformed by "pure" love—more chaste and aloof, more acceptable in polite society. This is only done to end-game committed relationships.*

The writers seem to think they're edging the viewers, but the reality is they're taking traumatized minority characters who rejoiced in sexual freedom, but lacked and craved an emotional connection, and showing they can't have both, or, if they find both, it will never last. They've taken hypersexual characters and said, here, even they can have the love and commitment they desire, but some physical intimacy, especially sexual intimacy, is what they must trade for it.

There's always one more case, phone call, or coincidence interrupting intimacy. Traumas or deaths deserving emotional and physical comfort go on to receive none or only one aspect. Done sometimes, it's fine. Done always, it's sick. Dan dies, and there's no hugging? Really?†

Don't craft characters who crave a full range of emotional and physical intimacy, only to rob them of related scenes every chance you get. That's not complexity. That's bad writing. To even achieve this in 5B, they must squash banter and sideline their female lead yet again.

What a gift to purity culture, which tells us to be more palatable by bottling and buttoning up. That sex should be taboo, but violence glorified. That there is no heated desire among "Good Women," that sexual minorities of all genders shouldn't experience it much at all.

5A is so good. At the very least, it's on the right path (clearly, since the plot payoff from 5x01 to 5x16 is great). It shows a couple working through difficulties and trauma, toward each other emotionally and physically. It even pokes fun at people who think an established relationship means the death of romantic and sexual appeal (a tired and hugely sexist trope). And then... And then 5B reverses that, pretending established relationships are barely physical during emotional struggle and that the honeymoon phase doesn't exist. It robs characters of joy and comfort through physical intimacy when they need it to move through or push beyond trauma.

It's telling that so many fan wishes for Deckerstar are about healing touch and existing in each other's spaces: amending Chloe's spicy PDA history with Cain, Chloe caring for Lucifer's wings, soft family scenes a la Monopoly night and shared meals, morning-afters, etc. Reasonable fans aren't asking for porn; they're asking for connection and humanity. They're asking for writers not to forget characters (and, yes, including hypersexual characters) on their way from Point A to Point B.

That 5B lacks these things isn't a "tee-hee frustrating" slow burn or a cockblock. It is, in so many scenes, excising from characters a core part of what nearly every human and fictional monster craves. And it's a slap in the face to the "found family" trope. When you remove or tamp down a casual physical intimacy that was previously there, characters and their relationships fall flat, even if only partially. They become blunt weapons creators wield against watchers or readers begging for scraps of warmth.

Minorities shouldn't be killed off with ease, and they shouldn't be stifled with ease, either.‡ And maybe there shouldn't be deep trauma driving a wedge in a romantic relationship if you're not going to explore it through that relationship, too—physical intimacy included.

I'm still reserving some judgment. I loved the family drama and the end. (Although, again, where was the physical intimacy? No intimacy when Chloe or Lucifer return from the dead? Really?) I see where they could do awesome things, and could have done more if not for network BS.

But I no longer trust Lucifer's writers and directors. They thought S5 was the end. And what they gave us of Deckerstar, of the relationship that symbolizes health and healing in their fictional world, is this: cold distance. And they got a kick out of doing it, apparently.

If this is a "love letter" to me as a fan, I'm burning it. I can only hope S6 course corrects. If not, the writers who made these choices shouldn't write sexual minority and/or traumatized characters again. If you don't understand most of us, you should stop fucking using us.

---

* If you don't believe me about the differences between casual/short-term relationships and end-game relationships in Lucifer, go back and look at how Lucifer and Maze are with strangers in all the other seasons. Look at Chloe's sex dream, her propositioning of Lucifer in a library, her sex with Pierce in the evidence closet. Look at how much physical intimacy there is between Lucifer and Eve, and then between Eve and Maze (if only as a ploy). Across seasons, there are sex/kink jokes and scenes galore.

Compare this to how these same characters are portrayed when with their end-game loves. Notice the gentle pecks on the lips and the huge general drop in sexual humor between 5A and 5B. How boring. Where's the spice these characters had? Also, give me a damn break. Buttoning up in a relationship is contrary to four and a half seasons of emotional character work that's been communicating security in our relationships is personally freeing.

† I'm not just talking about sexual intimacy in this post, though that is a big part of it because of the characters. 5B lacked crucial found family scenes, too.

Chloe should have been at God's family dinner, but being so would have prevented more ham-fisted angst. Chloe never even has a one-on-one with God, probably because that would demand a straight answer about her miracle status, which I would guess will be used to drive yet another wedge between her and Lucifer next season, but we'll see.

In multiple before- and after-work scenes, there was no reason for Lucifer and Chloe to be apart more, even, than they were in S1 and S2. Monopoly night was in S3, for crying out loud. Most horrifying of all? No one touches Chloe after Dan's death, but Trixie. Meanwhile, Linda, Amenadiel, Ella, Maze, and Lucifer all receive physical comfort. No wonder Chloe's tired of being strong.

‡ If you don't think it's offensive that they stuffed all their wlw content for two hypersexual characters into a few clunky, irrational, and chaste scenes that rushed I love yous, a marriage-like proposal, and the mention of soulmates, I don't know what to tell you other than get off my lawn.

[le-chevalier-au-lion]

Regarding your last post. I am curious, then who will consider MC as an important person in their life (MC doesn't have to be the only one). Also, if it's not spoilery, who are those important person in ROs life? Do they even have any? It's kinda sad if none of them think of MC as important. I mean.. MC doesn't have to be the only one they love or deemed as important. What do you think? I'm going to give the ROs the same energy they gave me tho. Lmao. I probably can relate to them, because the most important person in my life is not someone I love romantically/sexually either.

Oh, hi! I admit that post wasn’t phrased as well it could’ve been. It was very, very late, and I was in a mood after a certain interaction. But thanks for coming for clarification, and I’m sorry in advance for the long, long rant.

I don’t meant to say MC won’t be extremely important in the main cast’s if they have a good relationship, romantic or otherwise. They will. All of them will consider the MC one of most important person in their lives after everything they’ll live together.

I meant of that post as an admittedly clumsily worded provocation. In a world where we tend to believe our romantic partners are everything we have, our bestest friends, the only options for our future, the only people we can build a future around, how many people would be interested in imagining a relationship where the limits of that connection are blurred? In a world where we never say our best friends are more important than our significant others, will you still romance and just generally engage with a characters who has friendships and queerplatonic relationships more important than any romance?

We rarely stop to consider that, while characters in IFs have very good friendships, most of them would drop everything for a romanced character, will only find motivation if in a romance. This is by no means an attack on people who write and engage with romance-orientated IFs. I do all the time. I love them as well. But as a grayromantic person with almost zero romantic attraction, I wondered if I couldn’t do different in my own game. The aro-spectrum experience is almost non-existent in general media and so different from the experience of most people.

Romance is optional. Queerplatonic relationships are also optional. You’ll still have meaningful scenes with the entire cast even if your approval meter is down to zero. Every sort of interaction with the Thieves is central to the game, which centers around the human aspect of trying to depose gods. My own experience with friendship and romance is so blurry I wanted to translate this here in an extreme environment.

You’ll have to forgive me, however. I’ll not say who has another person as more important in their lives rather than the MC. You’ll still be a significant part, a person they will build their lives around, but not the only one. Not always 100% the one they’ll drop everything for. But they’d become characters no one wants to talk about. Sidelined even if you will not be cheated of meaningful relationships with them.

And it is not Seir or Wayfarer, who I have explicitly mentioned to be in the ace-spectrum and in the aro-spectrum.

I’m sorry for any confusions, but I thank you very much for reaching out to me. And if everyone could reblog this answer, I would be eternally grateful.

[klutzymaiden123]

Can you share some of the theories you received?

There's definitely been a mix regarding both Arnold's relationship with Helga and his overrall role in general. A lot of people have theorisied that he's already aware, on some level, that she's tied up in this superhero mess and that's why he's so insistent on getting her to open up.

Some people predict, or otherwise hope, that he may take up a role similar to Tuxedo Mask, where he can develop his own powers and swoop in to both save Helga and aid her.

And a lot of people are hoping that his feelings have already become romantic for Helga. This one I'll speak more freely on because honestly, it's completely up to the reader how they wish to interpret it. Obviously, reading from Helga's perspective taints things cause she's definitely the type to downplay her affect on people, especially someone she regards as highly as Arnold.

So, it's definitely possible that his feelings are shifting or have already shifted. I've said before that, in the drafts, his feelings come across as more platonic with possible hints to a subconscious romantic interest, but when I write the actual chapters, his actions are more overtly romantic in nature. Of course, Arnold is the type to sometimes forget boundaries, especially with someone like Helga who is all about boundaries, so his actions can still be intended as platonic but come across as so affectionate that they're misinterpretated as romantic.

I myself actually go back and forth on the nature of his feelings towards Helga; I planned on having them develop much later in the story but the more I write, the more romantic they can be seen. So, again, it's completely up to the reader, if they see it as more platonic or romantic, it's up to them because they're both very complicated people who sometimes can exist outside of my control.

What I will say is that even if Arnold's feelings are romantic, that's not why he's approaching Helga. Yes, Arnold is a total romantic but that's not the fundamental reason why he would approach someone. Arnold's a total fixer and if he thinks one of his friends—or hell, anyone that matters to him, regardless if they're already friends or not—is upset, he'll do anything he can to help fix their problems. There's obviously toxic aspects to this mentality, but that's his biggest trait, his humantarianism.

So, regardless of the nature of his feelings towards Helga, he's not putting in such effort to show her that he cares because of romance. He's doing it because he genuinely cares for her and even if it's completely platonic, he would still be doing the same thing. Where that leaves his feelings, totally up to you, but romance doesn't motivate Arnold to be a kind person, he just is a kind person.

But yeah, on everything else, I can't go into explicit details on what will happen because I want to build to it, but he will be having his role expanded. He won't be sitting on the sidelines the entire story, he will get a more active role, but in the meantime, I'm just focusing on getting the gang together before revisiting the rest of everyone.

Thanks for asking! 💙

[princeorque]

Do not apologize I really don't mind!! Plus I had a lot to do the last few days so your "late" response works great :)

I love rarepair, especially "weird" one so don't hesitate to rant >:] And Seteth reaction would really be priceless ( ALSO ARO-ACE SHEZ!! )-

The more you tell the sweeter it get :'( I know Annette make everything sweet, but you're really killing it with fluff, it's so lovely! And it's honestly really nice to see because I feel like relationship between women tend to be less explored in the fandom, I especially rarely ever see anything for women who don't directly interact in the game... Also Annette tend to be really sidelined :( I can't wait to read how you're going to write them! Also I don't want to spoil your next fic but I would love to hear more about it if you ever want to talk about it :] Because I won't lie, I'm very hyped up now for when you'll release it!

Never get enough of you're rambling too, I love to hear people talk about Fe3h and I really like all your ideas :] But here's my answers:

1. This is not original but CF :') Between the incredible character arc ( especially Edelgard and Byleth but also for the Black Eagles and some specific recruit too ), the revolutionary aspects and the powerful storyline, it has me on a chokehold! Also I'm a lesbian so I'm biased :v Though I really like every route, even SS despite how it crush my heart :')

2. Black Eagles! I love the queer theater kids energy, and I'm quite fond of the overall arc where most of them go from negatively viewing each other to forming truly deep bonds. They even have their own silly name <3 I nearly picked the Blue Lions as my first house ( because of Dimitri and Ingrid :') ) but in the end I went with the Black Eagles and I stuck with them ever since.

As for my favorite character, outside of Edelgard, it would be Dorothea! But I also love deeply Dimitri, Ingrid, Ferdinand, Cyril, Alois and Manuela :] To be fair, I love a lot of characters, it's hard not too with the wonderful cast Three Houses has.

3. My OTP is Edelgard x Dorothea ( but I also love Edelgard x Hilda a looot )! They both are earnest, very caring and kind in different ways which make they relationship so incredibly sweet... They both struggle with negative self-perception and the lack of a strong support system because of a society that deeply harmed them and I truly think they can profoundly understand each other, as well as bring true comfort and help the other grow. Also they're both drama kids as well as quite romantic people who love to wax poetries and, adding the contrast between Edelgard dorkiness and Dorothea who's more socially adept, it make them soooo cute. I tried to be as short as possible but I could talk about them for hours :]

As for rarepairs, well, I love them a bit too much so I have a lot of them, and I could write essays on each :') Among my favorite there's Hapi/Marianne, Lysithea/Petra, Dimitri/Raphael, Dorothea/Mercedes, and plenty of Edelgard rarepair. As you can see I really can't judge you for Arval/Sothis and F!Shez/Flayn :'D

4. Same as for rarepair, I've got so many- Some of my favorite are:

- Non-binary Edelgard because she's all about breaking tradition and social hierarchy; and because between her weird short when all the other girl uniform have skirt, her mister flame emperor persona, her title being "Empor" instead of "Empress", she just does so much with gender-

- Transfem Dimitri because how much she struggle trying to fit societal expectation and how much she despise traditionally associated with masculinity trait she has like her strength ( THE SUPPORT WITH MERCEDES ). I love transfem Hubert ( the pegasus!! ), Jeritza ( her whole backstory ) and Marianne ( because she's like 10 trans metaphor in one character ) too but Dimitri is probably my fav :)

-Transmasc aro-ace Ingrid because of his struggle to fit in the gender role pushed on him... Also because the word "Galatea" is the name of the mother of Leucippus, a famous transmac figure in Greek mythology ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leucippus_of_Crete )!! Also aro-ace because of the way society try to push marriage on him resonate a lot with allonormativity and I can't see any of the relationship with the people he has ending with as romantic. Though I also enjoy the butch lesbian headcanon for her because of similar reason :]

- Aro-spec Dorothea! This one seems contradictory to her flirty behavior at first, but the need for a relationship come from heavy societal pressure moreso than her own desire... She goes through an arc she create a strong support system through the relation she build and explicitly start to look less for romance ( especially with Caspar support!! ). As someone who's quite deeply on the aro spectrum it resonate a lot with my own experience!

- Tansmasc Claude because of the theme of struggling to truly fit, and also because him being unclear about his past + coming from a different society leave a lot of leeway for trans hcs that we don't really have with other characters.

I also have tons of bi headcanon ( Felix, Dedue, Petra, Bernadetta, Lysithea, Hilda, Leonie, ETC ) but I basically consider them canon because come on, for some it's not even subtext anymore!

5. For the map for pre-timeskip it would be the battle of the Eagle and the Lion and for post timeskip it would be between Azure Moon and Crimson Flower final map! As for the class Dark knight is the coolest, but War Master is the funniest to play :] Can I get yours too?

6. A Promise, the Apex of the World and of course the Edge of Dawn hit right in the feels ( especially as an Edelgard fan for the last one ) but I'm basic and God Shattering star is probably the one I listen to the most. It's such a powerful theme in every way and the vocal rocks, though I'm a bit sad it lack the emotional dept the other music have :( What's your favorite??

I tried to not rant too much, I'm sorry for the length still :') As for my inbox, I'm perfectly fine responding in reblog/comment too, so do whatever is easier for you!

Oh and by the way I've seen you reblog Baldur's Gate 3 post, are you in the fandom too? :D

Aww thanks you!! Now I can follow you too, because I'm sorry I tend to be really shy when I use anon ^^"

- Reincarnation AU? I can't wait to see how you're going to deal with the concept :] And it's lovely you included Mercedes/Byleth and Ashe/Dedue friendship. Also, ohhh Angst! I admit I looove hurt/comfort-

- You're right, I've never heard of it ( and I know ship like Kronya/Ignatz! ), but it could be so interesting :0 The enemy to lover, the whole confrontation between Nabateans and Agarthans, and their very particular situation- Also very funny, I'm sure they would bicker a lot :] Also, what do you like about Flayn and Shez? And I've heard of Marianne/Ashe before but it's definitely a rarepair, though a really sweet one. Very uderstandable with Dimileth, respect for sticking with your OTP!!

- I've never heard of Annette with Marianne and Bernadetta! I admit I really love developing platonic relationship and this one sounds so nice :] And to be honest I was kinda excepting the Faerghus four x)

- The Black Eagles girls!! ( With Shamir and Thyrus- ) I'm really happy to hear you like them!

- That's good because I love LGBT headcanons >:] Asexual spectrum Byleth is the finest, especially demi! 

To be fair there's not a single Blue Lions that doesn't have homoromantic subtext in some way- Dedue with Dimitri and Ashe, Annette with Mercedes, all the coding with Ingrid, and I don't think I even need to mention anything for Felix because his ending are some of the most obvious in the whole game. Sylvain is not even just in subtext anymore!! 

As for Sothis there's no way she care about gender anyway- And transfem Arval :0 I really like the story behind the headcanon!

And I'd love to share my thoughts and headcanons!! Though to warnw you I'm very invested in them and I tend to rant :') I have a lot too, is there any specific subject you like?

yayy new friend :3 btw sorry for the late reply, i was busy and then got sick these past days cwc

- yes i have few rarepairs but theyre very weird i know xD i like to think sothisxarval would tease each other all the time, also enemies to lovers!! about flayn and shez, i dont have much ships with shez bc i see them much more as aroace, but flayn's supports with f!shez are very funny and i like to think how seteth would react when hearing the two are dating! his brain first goes "thank the goddess my little daughter sister is not dating an ugly and insolent man" then he realizes flayn is getting laid anyway. eheh

- about annette with marianne and bernie: the idea was born when i first wrote the modern!au, because even if the blue lions are my fav characters, i wanted bernadetta and marianne to be there too since i love them so much!! so in my modern!au, they are all in the gardening club at school, and annie became friends with them bc theyre both shy but also sweet, and annette thought "i want to be friends with them!! they deserve to be happy so i want to see them smile!!!!" (in my au, mercedes and annette havent met yet at the beginning of the story). this is how the "chaotic singer becoming friend with depressed sweetheart and anxious writer" idea was born xD

but enough with my rambling lmao, it's your turn now! 👀 (as you said to me, feel free to respond whenever you can and to whatever you want! also do you prefer my questions to be in your inbox? if so i'll re-write them as an ask to you!)

1) i imagine edelgard is your favourite lord, but which route do you prefer the most?

2) your fav house and characters?

3) what are your OTPs in the game? and rarepairs?

4) i'd like to hear your LGTBQ+ headcanons too!

5) what is your favourite map in the game? and the best class?

6) best track in the game in your opinion?

(i'm having so much fun, thank you!!! <3)

[thnxforknowingme]

Klaine Season 4 Rewrite

So like a week ago @awkwardcaterpillar asked me about what Klaine moments I'd rewrite if I could. And I had a hard time pinpointing particular moments, because most of their individual scene interactions are so great! What bothers me more is larger narrative choices.

So, haha, I decided to just go off on how I'd like to change the large, overarching plot of Klaine, post-season 3. I started writing and I already have 1000+ words just about season 4, so I guess I'm gonna split it up by season, more incoming soon.

Basically, the crux of it is: Blaine doesn't cheat.

He wouldn't. He felt extremely betrayed by some text flirting that Kurt engaged in back in DWS (I do have some old meta here comparing the two cheating plots, which I think has some merits, but is mostly just trying to justify the poor writing choices that shouldn't have been made in the first place). Blaine is a character with a strong sense of loyalty and what is right, it's unthinkable that he'd cheat on his boyfriend like this. This is a problem that often happens in Glee, but I think also just in media moreover - adding infidelity, adding a third party, is an easy shortcut to make a romantic couple have issues or break up. Instead of diving into the nuance of relationship dynamics, the writers just go "uhhhh this character is lonely and horny. They cheat. Cool, that plot's done."

Blaine encourages Kurt to go follow his dreams and live in New York, but then he feels angry and scared and alone when he finds himself sidelined in Kurt’s life. He used to be everything to Kurt - last year every aspect of their lives were intertwined, whereas now Kurt has all these new things to worry about and experience and enjoy that Blaine isn’t a part of. Kurt, of course, is focusing on the new and more tenuous things in his life - he feels okay about not answering Blaine's call and instead continuing to talk with coworkers because he feels secure in his relationship with Blaine. He's confident that a missed call won't damage their relationship, whereas it's currently very valuable for him to be building relationships at his internship. But when it becomes more of a pattern, Blaine discovers that his worst fears from last year - the whole emotional conversation they had in DWS - have come true.

He goes to visit Kurt in New York, and they go out to Callbacks. Of course Blaine does a song. He decides to play Teenage Dream, to dedicate it to Kurt, because they're finally together in-person again and he loves Kurt so much. The song is still acoustic, still slower and more emotional, but it starts out as a genuine love song. As it goes on, though, Blaine realizes that he misses those halcyon early days of their relationship so much, that compared to that the present is so much worse, that he can’t go on like this. His performance becomes more tortured and sad as it goes on.

After the karaoke bar, Kurt asks what that was all about and Blaine tells him how he's feeling and they fight about it. Kurt could be reasonably defensive about the fact that he has to build his adult life and Blaine can’t expect him to drop everything for their relationship, that Blaine was the one who told him to go pursue his dreams in New York instead of playing it safe in Lima. Maybe some cruel things get said - we know Kurt can be cruel when he’s backed into a corner. Even though they still love each other, this isn’t working - Kurt feels that Blaine is asking too much, Blaine feels that he’s being abandoned, they can’t reconcile those differences under their current circumstances, so they can’t be in a relationship. They break up - and I think it's most powerful if Blaine is the one who makes the decision, who says those words, even though he already knows how fucking wrecked he will be over this. He can't have this relationship halfway, so instead of feeling ignored by Kurt all the time, he decides they should just break things off.

If you want to know what I think Blaine could be getting up to in Lima after this, I already have a whole post about my ideal Blamtina friendship/romantic plot!

Meanwhile, Kurt throws himself into work, and prepping for NYADA applications. He and Blaine maybe start to reconnect a little bit - having conversations at Thanksgiving or Christmas as they do in the show - but they're cautious, because they're both still tender. They want to still be each other's best friends, but know that a romantic relationship won't work between them right now.

Kurt meets Adam at NYADA, and they start going out, and it’s pretty good! Adam is older, and it’s Kurt’s first “adult” relationship, and it’s not always perfect but he’s enjoying it. I absolutely adore the Klaine scenes in I Do, so I'd probably keep that concept in - that early in his relationship with Adam, they're not exclusive, and he and Blaine fall back into old habits when they see each other again (while still maintaining that distance, insisting that they can't be together, this is just having fun while they're in the same place for a weekend).

Kurt and Adam go out for a couple months, but things eventually peter out. Maybe Rachel or Santana ask Kurt why Adam hasn’t been around lately, and Kurt gives kind of a non-committal answer, mentions that they’ve been busy, but also that he’s sort of been ignoring Adam’s texts. Rachel can have some obnoxiously self-important but also accurate advice about how they’re adults now, and Kurt should be mature and break things off with Adam if he’s not feeling it, so he does. It’s relatively amicable - Adam's like, “well Kurt, I think you’re great, but I can tell you haven’t been totally committed to this whole thing and that you're dealing with a lot of baggage. Good luck with all that, it’s been fun.” Kurt stops going to Adam’s Apples, not because he was kicked out, but because it’d be awkward (also, maybe he becomes aware that it’s a little weird Adam named the show choir after himself. That feels like a sort of egotistical move that was never unpacked in the show).

I'm toying with the timeline here - because this is the point at which Glee decided to really go off the rails, time-wise - but let's make the reasonable assumption that Kurt and Adam met and started going out in February (typical college spring semesters in the US begin at the end of January) (I'm assuming NYADA is on a semester system and not a quarter system, because that's more common, especially with private schools) (I know nothing about performing arts school specifically though) (also, this is already way more thought than Glee itself ever gave to the schedule of NYADA, so we're gonna go with my knee-jerk assumption here). So if they date for a few months and then break up, that brings us to April/May. Kurt is finishing up his first semester, and will make a trip back to Ohio for at least a little bit, once he has time off school (maybe this could also coincide with Burt getting those test results about his cancer). Blaine is preparing to graduate high school, and at this point will have received acceptances/rejections from the colleges he applied to and knows he'll be going to New York in the fall. This sets the stage for them to get back together.

[chattegeorgiana]

It's 2021 & tbh I'm happy to see you still serving the truth. So many ppl hate Sakura it's rlly sad. I see hate for her from NH & SNS mostly about her "forcing" her feelings on others like she herself didnt realize that & was stuck trying the alleviate that be growing stronger as her main plot point. Her loss of development is 99% SP NH agenda. & honestly I still wish Sasuke got w/ NO ONE, not even Naruto. He wasnt good to anyone, even if he respected them. [1]

& in general I hate the idea that Sasuke HAD to end up w/ someone romantically to try find happiness & that person should have been Naruto/Sakura/etc. bc he COULD had a happy, content, redemption arc w/o a romantic partner. Not everything great in this world is driven by romantic companionship & Sasuke is honestly not cut out for it. I wish he had platonic healing & mending arcs, not this focus on finding the "right one" to bed with.

I will go down in my grave wishing Sasuke could be aromantic/asexual representation in a positive redemption arc of him making amends & fixing bonds w/o needing the "oh so powerful & miraculous" powers of romantic fixation.

__________________________________________________________

Well my parents taught me that a lie has short legs and it won’t last for long. And all you do is deceive yourself with lying so I took that lesson to the very heart through my upbringing and tried to stay as real as I can be. 

I’m the type of person who prefers a hard truth over a sweet lie any day. I have ruined relationships with people because of this way of being. Because I met people in my life that preferred to be sweet talked than told the cold truth.

I am not like that, so yeah.

Now, as for the Sakura hate... well, idk but I’ve also noticed a change in fandom support. Yes, she is still hated but the support for her grew over the years. I’m telling you, it’s one of the things I noticed from the very beginning as I came back to the fandom. 

But as I said in a thread on Twitter of mine, while I loved seeing that support, there are two factors that sadden me. 

1. The love is directed at Sakura Uchiha, not Sakura Haruno and 

 2. The fandom as a whole has become a lot similar to the other side of the fandom that used to bully us Sakura fans back in the day.

Of course, I am talking general aspects, I am sure that there are some particularities here and there. But sadly that's the truth. Which made me think about the following things. Are people really liking Sakura Haruno or Sakura Uchiha?

Because it makes me wonder... where was this love back when Sakura was getting her heroine status ripped? Where was it? Are you loving Sakura now just because she's married into the Uchiha clan? Because if so, that's just sad. And shallow. Like ppl used to call her.

And I know it might ruffle some jimmies, but it's the truth. It's an honest and pure observation, after being gone from the fandom for so long. Don't get me wrong, I love that she's loved and supported now, but I can't help but feel that she is because of the wrong reasons.

As for Sasuke, the problem is that the show rewards him with something that Naruto worked for.

We’re never really shown how he is sorry about all the misery he put everyone through.

People say that  ohhh, he was a victim. But wait. So was Naruto. He didn’t turn into that?

Not saying that what he did didn’t have an impact on him, but at the end of the day it boils down to CHOICE. Which Sasuke’s plot even is about. He CHOSE to go to Orochimaru. He CHOSE to kill Itachi. He CHOSE to destroy Konoha. HE CHOSE TO WANT TO KILL THE GOKAGE at the end!

And problem is that the plot doesn’t hold him accountable for that. And I will never shut up about how in other media authors don’t excuse the antagonist for his actions.

See FMA’s Scar. It’s the EXACT same thing. He had his clan murdered. Same thing. Genocide.

But do you see FMA’s plot excusing him for his actions like Naruto does? No, it doesn’t.

And I think that’s the core problem.

Like I always said: I have a love-hate relationship with Sasuke. I love the fact that he challenges the status quo, but I hate how he goes about it and how the story gives him a free pass.

Because it all feels hollow. Not to mention is a dangerous morale to leave behind. Especially to the newer generation of young adults who are shaping their character.

It’s sends a message that if you suffered, you get a free pass to do whatever shit you want cuz at the end of the day you get a free pass without having to work hard to get your atonement. 

That’s why I love the fight in Jujutsu Kaisen between Panda and Mechamaru. Mechamaru tries to victimize himself and find excuses for his actions, but Panda tells it like it is.

Just because you have suffered, it doesn’t give you the right to be an ass, basically.

As for Sakura and her development, yeah. Everyone acts like an ostrich and hide their heads in the ground pretending that it wasn’t because of SP’s favoritism and mischaracterization that Sakura wasn’t hated.

Well it was that exact same thing that made people hate her. Like I know at some point back in the day, SP had to excuse themselves that noo, they don’t hate Sakura.

Yeah right... Cuz that’s why they made an omake where she was jealous of Hinata and how Hinata was stealing the heroine status from her.

They were slowly inoculating this idea into the fandom’s perception.

And I remember how I used to tell people about it back in the day. SSers as well. 

Guys Sakura is gonna be sidelined because of this. She isn’t gonna be the heroine anymore. But did someone listen? Noo, they didn’t.

Because all they saw was the fact that I was a NaruSaku fan and to hell with me. Out of the fear of NaruSaku might potentially win, they preferred to just shut up.

And then guess what? TL came and they called Hinata the heroine of Naruto’s story.

And I was like lol, I goddamn told you so. But for you it was more important for NaruSaku to lose than Sakura keeping her status, right?

As for who Sasuke should’ve ended-up with? Well that is hard to tell. Ofc, personally due to my preference for symbolism and seeing the power balance, it would’ve been nice to see him paired-up with Karin.

Cuz I feel Karin had what it took to shake him up, cuz she didn’t take his BS. But that’s just me and I would’ve totally been okay with an arc like you proposed.

However, yeah, I don’t see him with Sakura at all , I’m sorry. As much as I would’ve liked to.

Hell, I should’ve been happy as a former SS. Yet I wasn’t.

But I guess this boils down to each person’s principles. And I know where mine lie. :)

[tsunderedoctor]

Hello and thanks for doing this event. I'm a sucker for match-ups / seeing the opinions of different writers. That said, I've had three done by others so if you are feeling overwhelmed by requests (or simply don't feel like doing it) absolutely no hard feelings if you toss mine.

I'm 31/f and I'm interested in a male match up please. I'm petite/short with blue eyes, kinda pale skin, and ashy brown hair.

I'm INFP-T, though the thinking vs feeling aspect I'm split almost 50/50. I think things through a lot but my emotions interfere with logical decision making at times. It lists me as 100% introverted and it's spot on. I need a lot of alone time/time in my head or I get irritable/stressed. I have very few close relationships and I struggle to open up; I can come across as a jerk because I'm detached but in truth I'm sensitive and empathetic. I appreciate deep conversation on topics I'm passionate about. Those that are close to me I love a lot, though I might not show it well.

As far as Enneagram, I'm a 5w6 and the description of 5 here is on point in its entirety to the point that I'm not sure what else to add.  As for the 6 aspect, I believe that is thanks to my anxiety; unlike it says, I do not find myself "looking for something to believe in" but I am distrustful or at least questioning of most things.

Aside from that, I'm a pretty melancholic individual, but I've come to accept it to the point that it's become my (sometimes exhausting) comfort zone. I don't have the energy or desire to keep up any façade to hide my demeanor, which exacerbates my struggle to connect to others.

On a lighter note, my passions include creative outlets (music, art, writing), video games, nature, and animals. I enjoy learning new things, going for walks, rainy days, and fantasy.

I dislike crowds, excitement, physical contact, hot weather, and wet socks.

(Sorry this is so long 😬 I always feel like I'm using writers as therapists when I request match-ups but I want to be thorough. Thank you for reading.)

Honestly same! We need to join some sort of addictions group- But don't you worry! I need to write, it's a nice relaxer for me, gets me out of my head lol! (and also don’t worry, I am going to school to be a therapist, so use me lol-)

As usual, I'm adding two babes. I did one which is your ideal type based off the MBTI and I did an introvert-type who I think you would match well with!

Crocodile

So Crocodile is described as an ENTJ (I find it really funny because Boa Hancock is one as well, and the difference is amazing-), based off the MBTI he is your ideal match and I also think personally he would be a good match for you!

Despite his extroverted behavior, Crocodile isn’t your typical extrovert stereotype; he mostly uses it to motivate people and have them do his bidding. He has that ability to gather people with his words, and that’s where his extrovertism really lies. 

He doesn’t mind your melancholy behavior, in face he sometimes relishes in it with you. And he also doesn’t care if you don’t want to put up some kind of front, he rather you be yourself, at least to him.

He’s not much of a romantic type or one to get sentimental, so he doesn’t mind your detached demeanor. He’s the type to read people very well, so he can tell how you really feel without words needed. I also feel he is one for philosophical discussions! He’s the type to live on the edge so he finds it interesting to see how others think about his choices.

He’s also not the type to enjoy crowds, he rather watch from the sidelines after giving some grand speech. He’s also happy you are not a fan of physical contact, he doesn’t need a lover who can’t read the room and wants his attention 24/7. 

Is offended you don’t like hot weather lol-

Basil Hawkins

North Blue represent! Okay, but in all seriousness, he’s a good match for you! He’s an INTP, he likes to think things through fully (or relies on his cards-), rather than go with his heart. So it’s nice having someone who can help balance him out and maybe help him start to use his heart more!

He’s also very melancholic in nature, he gives off these European gothic vibes, so he would be a great person to understand your personality (just try not to sit in that feeling for too long-). 

An art lover himself, he finds your creative outlet to be relaxing and will sometimes help you find a muse if you so desire. He also tends to tell you how well your artistic passion will do based on his cards, so stop him if you don’t want to know. 

Peace and calmness is his comfort, rainy days, sitting by the window in a turtleneck sweater while drinking tea is his ideal day! He likes the idea of spending the day with you during those times, rather than do something fun or exciting. 

He’s also not a fan of physical touch and values your agreement in that. It’s not that you two won’t ever have intimate moments, you just express your love for one another in your own unique ways that only you understand. 

[buddha-in-disguise]

Discourse, Supergirl and fans.

The Supergirl situation with William Dey, is far more than about William Dey per se.

I touched on this when I first posted about David Harewood.

What I have seen, and I am still seeing is while some SuperCorp fans were annoyed about the preview for episode 12, this was also coming from a diverse section of the fandom. That David (and others) have singled out the SuperCorp fandom is both unfair, and unhelpful. But that is a different discussion altogether.

So - I am going to repeat and expand on some of what I wrote at the time to try and explain why I, (and others) have found Supergirl to be really problematic at the moment.

First of all: There is no doubt Supergirl currently has a diverse cast, inc. LGBTQ representation. 

However, all the diversity in the world means absolutely nothing if a program is seemingly only playing lip service to the characters. 

Compare and contrast with Legends of tomorrow. They have 6 women. 2 Muslim superheroes (a TV first). 5 characters are LGBTQ, including Charlie; who is recognised as gender fluid. 4 people of colour. The lead is a woman, who is bisexual, in a canon relationship with a lesbian, and is a superhero. 

They do this without it being made a big deal of, enjoyed by LGBTQ and heterosexual audience alike. But it is a huge deal for many because of that diversity, and just as importantly they haven't overloaded the cast numbers, so they all get good solid storylines through a season. A season that is also shorter than Supergirl. 

Legends are an example of how you can put in a diverse minority cast, without it becoming forced or cumbersome. It isn't without fault sure, but no program is. 

So where is Supergirl going wrong at the moment? 

Let's use William, as the crux of the problems are best shown with his character, but it isn't limited to him. I will put first - this is absolutely *not* a criticism towards Staz Nair, who I respect (& like, as far as one can from limited SM interaction). All too often the accusations are made that if you don't like a character, you hate the actor. That is categorically not true for me, nor others I've seen posting about this. Of course if anyone does hate on the actor, that is not okay.

So, back to William. I get the reason he came along in regards to Russell and so the Andrea connection. That story made sense.  What hasn't made sense - William being used as a journalist, when Nia is right there! Nia has barely had any screen time, and virtually none as a journalist; you know - her actual job. I'm not sure what the minutes on screen ratio has been this season between the two, but it has felt completely slanted towards William as a viewer, at least until now. 

First instead of Kara and Nia investigating Leviathan after William was 'exposed' in the earlier episodes, now Nia is sidelined again, because they want Kara to team up with William to investigate Lex.

Why? Why do they need that journalistic pairing, when Nia - who as a Superhero, is better placed if danger from Lex occurs. But no, they're making it about Kara having to work with William because Lex threatened to kill him. Plus Nia was being mentored by Kara. Is she no longer being mentored by Kara? Are they a team? Even if the mentoring has ended, Nia is still not being utilised as a journalist.

I am utterly baffled as to why they feel this arc makes any sense. Moreso when an already established character gets sidelined. 

I'm also getting tired of seeing anyone who sees these valid opinions about current storyline as being trolls (or the comments all SuperCorp fans are just outright haters. No - SuperCorp fans are a large diverse group, that have incredible artists, fanfic writers, and social media users. Many also multi-ship. To place a blanket statement about a whole fandom as large as SC, is hateful. All fandoms have some who are problematic, but to single out an entire group is not right). 

So back to my thoughts. An episode can have some great aspects to it, but it can also be highly problematic to some fans, & receive valid criticism or valid opinions for it. For example, the latest episode of Batwoman. The Alice/Beth story was great. The acting superb. What I found worrying was the way they made Sophie feel guilty for legitimate reasons why she had led a closeted lifestyle. That lifestyle is valid, for Sophie and many LGBTQ people, and for good reason, including keeping some people safe from harm. I felt it was a clumsy attempt for Alice to get into Sophie's mind; it could've been tackled other ways, so it felt wrong they used her sexuality as a way to achieve that. Being closeted for many literally keeps them alive. So that was one hell of a poor choice in my opinion. Yet others have made perfectly credible counter arguments that it showed the difficulties faced by many LGBTQ people. So, great episode, valid criticism/opinion from both points of view. It also highlights you can have excellent episodes, but they can have legitimate issues.

Nor does differences of opinion, as long as it is respectful, makes those voicing them a bully, no matter how much you disagree. 

At the end of this, if you don’t agree, and your opinion makes you say something that is intentionally hurtful (directly or indirectly to a person or group of people), it's a bad thing. The key word being intentionally. We all make mistakes, and responses that could've been better, & we all need to be aware of that, but if it is an intended attack, don't be surprised if others call you out for your behaviour. 

So now what in regards Supergirl?  

I know ultimately that this show is about Supergirl, but it is also about those around her as family & friends. I understand there are only so many minutes in one episode. What I don't understand is why those precious minutes are going to a character, when they have one perfectly placed to do the same role. Why they have to potentially explore another relationship, when we have one canon relationship, one canon on/off again relationship & one relationship that while isn't canon in terms of romantic, it is a big story in terms of best friends, all seemingly sidelined. Which brings me to the Kara fighting for Lena's soul aspect. Again, I am not seeing a lot of fighting for anything, except more and more fans fighting themselves and cast. 

Then you just need to look at the dislikes that teaser was given on YouTube, and compare them to previous ones. I've attached screenshots to show this.

A serious misjudgment was made by someone on how that teaser would be received, and again I will stress, this dislike hasn't just been from one area of fandom, but multiple areas. For many it wasn't just about William, but the culmination of unease that has built for a few episodes. A prime example of the straw that broke the camel's back. If you are solely focused on one area of fandom for this discourse (as many blame SuperCorp fans), you need to step back and recognise you are not allowing yourself to see the whole picture. To focus solely on one thing, rather than acknowledging the wider audience are saying this, does not make you the better fan. To dismiss it as trolls, is being dismissive of good, regular fans with legitimate questions or concerns. It is insulting to many of us.

I will be honest, I had high hopes for this season. I also knew it was likely going to be pretty confusing at times since it was given as 'our Black mirror season' and 'nothing is as it seems.' I accepted that.

However, all it seems at the moment is a jumbled mess from pre and post Crisis. They just doesn't appear to be any cohesion at all, which is making it really difficult as a viewer. Add in the changes post Crisis and it feels even more of a mess.

Of course, they could bring in more cohesive elements soon, but considering that we know episode 13 is 'It's a wonderful life,' and Alex Danvers in a later episode is wearing a Super suit - I just sense this whole 'nothing is as it seems' side we appear to be getting isn't changing any time soon, & with episodes running out, with so many strings running through at the moment, it feels really discombomulated. If by seasons end, they pull it off and you can look back and see how it's played out as a whole, I will be the first to say well done for that part. 

I do though think right now Supergirl feels chaotic beyond expectation, and no end in sight. I feel there have been too many character additions this season (particularly Andrea & William) that is taking screen time away from Kara, Alex, Nia, Lena, Kelly et al.

It feels like a mess of unnecessary pairings and the crux of the story seems to have been lost in the midst.

That is causing confusion for fans, that is also beginning to become frustration. That frustration is spilling over. Add in the genuine and extremely legitimate concerns over the LGBTQ issues that have arisen (again from far more than just SuperCorp fans), and the frustration has built even more. 

I can only hope the next couple of episodes address some of this and not complicate the mess further. 

Whatever happens, Supergirl is not doing well in terms of a storyline that is gripping for fans, that is now top heavy with regulars, taking screen time from established characters, and a social media blunder that has so far only exacerbated the simmering uncertainty being felt by many.

It might improve, and I sincerely hope it does, but they are edging into the potential for the anger felt by fans to become an all out riot if they don't stop and see where valid criticism is being given. If this season continues on in this vein, then there is going to be huge swathes of fans drifting away. The concerns are legitimate. I wish it could be seen as that.

[thessaliah]

I'm not sure if this is relevant but I never really liked ryokira I mean I don't like yaoi in general but I always saw their relationship as one-sided You see, Ryo deep down, likes akira but he can only show that via trying to get akira, who was a suckup at the time, to get him to do what he wants But once akira becomes devilman and Ryo has no one to look down on, that drives him mad up until he finds out he's not actually ryo asuka I could go on but I'm running out of digits so wat u think?

Well if you’re talking about Crybaby, sure I agree a little there’s a strong need for that Ryo to control Akira, but in the Manga, I’m not sure if I agree-

We see a flashback of their relationship in the manga before Ryo went full paranoid, where they climb together and camp, admiring the landscape. They got along because their personalities were alike (still are in some sense, which Satan realized/brought up at the end of Devilman). In that time travel chapter with the native Americans, where Ryo’s not affected by paranoia which warps him (this is exactly what Satan was testing how fear changes people), he’s actually a soft-hearted, sensitive guy who can’t kill animals at all. And he’s always been like that (that’s why Akira was surprised by his change when he comes to him in Devilman opening chapter). He wasn’t too different from Akira. They were comfortable around each other because they had a very equal standing which was nice to see. The fear of demons and paranoia made him snap, do drugs, become unstable and more violent under pressure. That’s what Satan found out: how even a good person can be driven to extremes because of fear. And is fear and paranoia what they weaponize against humanity. The demons didn’t exterminate humanity in Devilman, the humans drove each other to extinction while Satan and Akira sat at the sidelines. 

(Would have been nice for uncle Go to give us more flashbacks before the demons rolled in).

Also, Ryo’s concerned about Akira losing his humanity and stressed over what happened to him in the few instances he as monologue in the manga. Where he’s scared and tries to be, with the limited page time as it’s a short manga, his emotional crutch all up until his change. He feels responsible for Akira, and he refuses to stay behind and get him hurt or fight alone. That’s why he crawls out his hospital bed to save him from Syrene even if he’s still injured. He is also stressed to help him; in fact, supporting Akira was his tragic last thoughts before he drove home and realized who he was. Getting those memories back changed Ryo who went from the most ardent champion to save humanity (far more than Akira and I think Akira’s distance with humanity began by losing Ryo) to Satan. This changed priorities too. Satan might love Akira, but Satan has loyalties and promises made to demons. Unlike Amon in the TV show of Devilman, love made them conflicted, but not enough to not be true to their previous loyalties.

Of course in a thematic and symbolic way, Akira has taken Amon’s power so is one of Satan’s demons, and the rebellion against demons for humans (initially) mirrors Satan’s rebellion against God for demons which Satan acknowledges in the end. That aside. Let’s talk about Ryo.

Ryo wasn’t trying to influence  Akira or anything, he was concerned by his safety and he was frustrated he couldn’t help him out because he was human. He couldn’t forgive himself because they promised to fight together. But there was no envy or need for Akira to listen to him. Ryo does say something protective like trying to stay indoors after Zenon’s broadcast, but isn’t an attempt to control Akira as a pawn, but because he’s scared Akira is going to die. Akira gets the same reaction when he found out Ryo went hunting demons on his own, he gets angry and forbids him to expose himself into danger. I think Akira came out even more controlling of Ryo in there too. 

I have always assumed that Ryo unconsciously wanted Akira to be strong to survive because he loved him. This is what killed Amon, Satan’s love for Akira, it wasn’t Akira’s ‘strong pure heart’ (such thing doesn’t save Akira without Ryo, and Amon kills him and takes him over) it was Satan who inadvertently destroys a mighty demon to empower their crush as reality warps sometimes by their whims without their explicit control. Zenon angrily accuses Satan and reveals their actions in the end, because they fell in love with Akira. I mean, on one hand Zenon’s right, Satan disposed of a powerful asset and ally to make a powerful enemy which wasn’t logical at all. But on the other hand, Zenon lashing out (at least one of Zenon’s male heads/personas) might be out jealousy, he kept trying to kill Devilman despite (or maybe because) Satan doesn’t want him dead.  In Devilman Lady, Zenon splits into three personas, and the main one becomes the super protective bodyguard of Lan, who is one of Satan’s new human split personas as Ryo was in the past, and puts unwanted moves on Jun, the other half of Satan. 

I highlighted the bold part because it’s what Akira and Satan (Ryo is just one of their incarnations) were about. That’s why Devilman Lady wraps up their story (Akira and Satan). It’s where it began and how it could have been: finally fighting side by side as allies as they shook hands on chapter 1. That’s the book ends. Where they sorted their things out and united forces after they failed to do (because the message in Devilman, written during the Cold War, needed to make them fail to be more memorable and it worked). Their relationship is very important - in all aspects, romantic, platonic friendship, their former enmity, and also family - it’s what drive both characters to change: Satan accepts humanity in such way that further experiences the pains of humans including the evolution phase to demonic and does so sincerely because has learned of past mistakes and wouldn’t let God win this time. This is all thanks to meeting Akira and those experiences as Ryo that led to the existence of Jun and Lan. Akira has learned to be at peace with not being human anymore, he’s matured and realized how he was being self-centered and lacked the big picture; that he too was an architect of his own misery. What drove this change is his relationship with Satan whom he wants to meet again to understand.  And they ride to battle as equals. On that splash page, they stand as generals each on a steed, versus Michael who is lone general on the angels’ side. Even if Satan is stronger and could pull the cred of being the leader of demons, Satan doesn’t want Akira as an underling. Doesn’t ask that. But to fight by their side for the freedom to live when angels want to take their world away. 

PS. I also not sure if consider Akira and Satan BL, Satan is intersexed (so is Akira when he wants - demons can pick their private parts, it’s very fluid as some of those special one-shots Nagai and his friends show us in detail). I know the fandom is mostly interested in Ryo angle but Ryo is just one of the human avatars/identities of Satan who isn’t male or human. 

[fadedtoblue]

I'm so worried that Matt/Karen is going to be endgame. Like don't get me wrong, I adore Karen paige as a character and her friendship with Matt is important to me as well, but the romance makes it awkward and I feel like they would be unhappy in a relationship. Because they definitely care about each other but they butt heads like Matt and foggy. Also, I think Matt would always yearn for elektra and the freedom he feels when he's doing what makes him feel alive, that Karen doesn't quite get.

Oh friend, I worry too. I’ve shared some thoughts on this topic before, so apologies if I unintentionally cover any familiar territory in my response!

I ultimately think Karen’s character AND storyline are best served if her relationship with Matt stays focused on rebuilding the friendship and not the romance. Because whenever they’ve tried to focus on the romantic angle of Matt and Karen’s relationship, 10/10 it’s made Karen look like a dithering idiot, which isn’t a great look. And while this may have been super unintentional on Marvel / Netflix’s part, it also didn’t help having both halves of this potential endgame couple paired up and playing off of Elektra and Frank, both of whom created so much more interesting, emotional character development for their counterparts and have more natural chemistry* (both platonic and romantic) with Matt and Karen than the latter two could ever hope to have with each other. 

*Some have argued that chemistry is not important in evaluating show pairings, and I very much have to disagree. TV is a visual medium and part of what makes this stuff work is being able to 100% believe the pairing you’re watching on screen, otherwise why tf do we get invested in the relationships we see portrayed in tv / film or bother with casting directors or chemistry tests? 

But look, a part of me has already accepted the inevitability of the show going back down the MattKaren path, and at the end of the day I just want a Daredevil show with GREAT storytelling and GREAT character moments and if you can find a way to make that relationship make sense while serving the story in an exciting way and not b/c they happened to be the only two attractive ppl in the room, then whatever…I’ll still be there for Matt / DD but you best believe I’ll be giving any kind of romance* a hard pass because of everything that was built up before…any kind of romantic about face for either Matt or Karen will just feel forced, and tbh, a real disservice to the emotional foundation established between Matt and Elektra. 

*My two exceptions would be Black Widow (never happening in this universe lol) or Kirsten McDuffie, who is the only non-Elektra love interest I’ve actually liked in the comics. 

And looping back quickly to the friendship points, can I also just say that I’m a little preemptively salty that any rebuilding for Matt and Karen will probably come at the expense to his rebuilding his friendship with Foggy? Maybe I’m just being cynical but I can totally see this being a thing, despite Foggy needing to be the more important relationship to mend on the show imo. My random hope and theory is that they can try to avoid any sidelining by making the relationship aspect about all of three of them, rather than just the individual connections. As problematic as some of the Foggy/Karen stuff was in Defenders, I did like the idea that these issues they have with Matt need to be addressed as how they affect the three of them as a trio. 

And sorry for repeating this again, but this is 100% why friendship and family needs to be the focus of Matt’s rebuilding arc next season, NOT romantic love. Elektra is always going to be THAT person for him, and they really clearly established just how far Matt was willing to go for his love (to the death!!). So if you don’t want to completely undercut and undermine the emotional significance of what’s already established before but still allow Matt to grow as a character, let him realize he can find his anchor in family! In his avocado family and his Defenders family and his real family! 

Sorry that got a little rambly at the end there…hopefully you were able to pick out something halfway interesting out of my word vomit on the topic :).