#i see to many kids wanting to be a 2010s emo

[knights-of-cydonia]

are people my age (mid 20s +) now the ‘elder emos’ to these young uns?? Are the emos of the 2000s ancient artefacts?

[mikeywayarchive]

Mikey Way: “I was borderline terrified a lot of the time My Chemical Romance was active. I was learning the bass in front of 20,000 people every night!”

By Gregory Adams ( Bass Player ) published June 9th 2023

The reunited emo kings’ low-end ranger reveals why he swapped out his signature Fender Mustang for a sparkling new signature Jazz Bass, learning bass in arenas, and how he overcame insecurity about his chops

Full interview under cut:

My Chemical Romance’s reunion has seen bassist Mikey Way thrumming through the high pomp punk of The Black Parade and Three Cheers for Sweet Revenge favorites with a familiar rhythmic fortitude, but keen-eyed band obsessives have probably noticed the musician is no longer sporting the snazzy, silver-flake Squier Mustang signature model Fender built for him back in 2012. 

The good news is that’s because, as Fender have just formally announced, Way has a brand-new – but just as glammy – Jazz Bass out now. There’s a good reason why Way’s made the switch: the Jazz Bass is his first love.

Though he started out on guitar, Way got the hang of a four-string in the mid ‘90s while playing a loaned-out Jazz Bass in his pre-My Chemical Romance project, Ray Gun Jones. He upgraded to a silver-finish Jazz of his own by the time MCR started touring in the early ‘00s, but a trailer mishap led to that instrument getting smashed to pieces on a highway.

Way tells Guitar World that he eventually became obsessed with the short-scale sturdiness of a Mustang bass guitar as My Chemical Romance were writing their 2010 full-length, Danger Days: The True Lives of the Fabulous Killjoys, after fooling around with a model Duff McKagan had left at North Hollywood’s Mates Rehearsal Studio. By 2012, Way had his Squier model in stores.

It was during the downtime after My Chemical Romance went on hiatus in 2013, though, that the stubbiness of his Mustang became a little hard to handle.

“I stayed away from playing bass for a little while, which is natural – I was just decompressing,” Way explains. “Then, sometime in 2014, I picked up the bass again, to get my chops back, [but] I noticed that the Mustang felt strange to me.” 

After reaching out to the folks at Fender, Way got a grip on his playing by stretching out on the longer-necked Jazzes they sent him. Way’s take on the Jazz Bass is outfitted with ’70s-style single-coil pickups, and a thinline “C”-shaped maple neck the bassist says is super-speedy.

The finish is silver, of course, but Way also wanted an aesthetically inkier black pickguard. The headstock, likewise, pops with its matching gloss-black finish.

Speaking with Guitar World, Way gets into the glam and grunge gods who inspired his love of a good sparkle coat, overcoming performance anxiety, and why a steady attack wins the bass race every time.

What were some of the musts when it came to designing this latest signature?

“I’ve been obsessed with the sparkle finish as far back as I can remember. Growing up in the ‘90s, the silver-flake [finish] was big in alternative music. Chris Cornell had the Gretsch Silver Jet, [Daniel Johns] from Silverchair had one – [with] the imagery the Smashing Pumpkins used, they liked sparkles.

“Ace Frehley, of course, was big into flake finishes, and as a kid, you love the larger-than-life, comic book world of Kiss. [And there’s] David Bowie – the glam rock stuff. That flake finish makes me think of so many different things, but that’s why I love it so much.

“I remember being younger and going into stores and seeing a flake finish and being like, 'Oh my god, that’s an expensive [looking guitar] – I can’t afford that, let alone play it.' It was almost intimidating.”

One aesthetic difference between your Mustang model and this Jazz is that you didn’t throw a racing stripe on this one.

“I thought about bringing it back and keeping the continuity. Maybe somewhere down the line we’ll throw a racing stripe on this. The thing with [seeing a] racing stripe was always like, 'This player is a badass!'”

Is there a psychology behind removing the racing stripe, then?

“The psychology behind it is that I forgot about it. When My Chemical Romance was talking about doing reunion shows [in 2019], I’d contacted Michael Schulz from Fender and was like, 'Is it OK if I make a new bass for this [next] era of My Chemical Romance?' I wanted to take my past and bring it to the future – taking my Mustang and melding it with the Jazz Basses that I loved so much. 

“I tried to have my cake and eat it, too. I wanted the thinner neck, and I wanted the silver-flake, but I wanted it on a Jazz Bass. They knocked it out of the park immediately.”

Getting back to how you used to admire those silver-flake guitars in the shops, you actually started out as a guitarist, right?

“So, the story goes that my brother [My Chemical Romance vocalist Gerard Way] had a Sears acoustic guitar when he was 10 years old. We would take a shoelace and make a strap, and we would stand on the couch pretending we were in Iron Maiden. And then it got real around ’93-’94, which lines up with the rise of alternative music. You started to see people that looked exactly like you, and they were playing guitar. They were playing Fender Strats! 

“My brother got a Mexican Stratocaster, Lake Placid Blue. I found it not too long ago, and Michael from Fender hot-rodded it. That’s how I cut my teeth – that Mexican Stratocaster [was] my first foray into really trying to learn how to play guitar. I would watch bootlegs of concerts, and watch [guitarists’] hands and fingers – Thom Yorke, Billy Corgan, Noel Gallagher, Jonny Greenwood. I would watch what they were doing. It all started from that.

“Bass came out of necessity, twice. Me and my brother had a band called Ray Gun Jones, I guess in ’95-’96. It was kind of Weezer-ish, or us doing a surf-punk thing [with] a little bit of pre-mid-west emo. At the time we were really into Weezer, Jawbreaker, Promise Ring, Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana, Sunny Day Real Estate. 

“[Ray Gun Jones] needed a bass player, so my brother was like 'Hey, do you want to play bass for my band?' I was already a huge fan – I’d always tag along to practices. The ex-bass player let me borrow their bass. We had 4-5 songs, and I got the rudimentary from that. In that era, everyone was like, 'I want to be a guitar hero,' but I realized I had a natural knack for [bass]. I picked it up right away. 

“Then, with My Chemical Romance, it was the same thing. My brother was like, 'We need a bass player,' and I was like, 'Well, this is familiar' [laughs]. 'Here’s the demo; learn these songs.' They weren’t terribly difficult.”

Was that bass you had borrowed a Fender Jazz?

“Yup, I’ve only ever played Fender. I’ve tried tons of other basses from other companies, but it always feels alien to me.”

You mentioned studying the playing of Thom Yorke or Billy Corgan through those bootleg vids. Were there any bassists that you treated similarly, to understand the mechanics of bass?

“Matt Sharp from Weezer. I tried to ape him in the beginning, but my attack sounds vaguely reminiscent of a Smashing Pumpkins recording. I would learn Siamese Dream and Melon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, and the Blue Album [the band’s 1994 self-titled debut] by Weezer. Those were the three albums that I put the most time into learning. That’s in my DNA.”

How about from a hyper-local perspective. If My Chemical Romance started out playing New Jersey basements and VFW halls, where there any bassists from that scene that inspired you, or that you appreciated?

“Yes! We shared a rehearsal space with this band called Pencey Prep – that was [MCR guitarist] Frank Iero’s original band. John McGuire was their bassist, and he let me borrow his equipment all the time. He taught me fundamentals, and gave me pointers – he taught me a whole heck of a lot. 

“I always respected Tim Payne from Thursday, I loved his attack and stage presence. And when I’d watch Gabe Saporta from Midtown, I thought 'This dude is the coolest guy in the room.' He’s got this calm, cool, and collected [presence] that you can’t fake or learn. And then Eben D’amico from Saves the Day – brilliant! 

“I would try to learn Saves the Day basslines. They were pretty complex [compared to] what most bands were doing in that scene. Most bands in the post-hardcore scene had simplistic basslines, but Saves the Day did not.

“There’s also Ray Toro, the guitar player of My Chemical Romance. Not only is he truly gifted at guitar, but he’s truly gifted at bass and drums – Ray can do everything. He was instrumental, early on, with showing me the ropes. Ray gave me lessons when I was a novice. I can’t thank him enough for that.”

What kind of pointers was he giving you?

“He showed me proper fretting, or [how to maintain] a steady attack. I got a really great compliment from our front-of-house guy, Jay Rigby. He told me that I’m one of the very few bass players that he doesn’t have to go in and tweak the volume [for]. 'You’re steady, throughout.' I think that’s something that Ray Toro instilled in me: the consistency of attack. 

“It’s funny thinking about it, but I was such a novice going into My Chemical Romance that I would bring myself into an anxiety-ridden state of, 'Oh my god, we have a show tonight; I have to start practicing right now.' I would be practicing four to five hours before we played – I’d play the set [in the green room], and then I’d play it again. Other bands would be like, 'What are you doing?' I was so neurotic at that point, because there were so many people around me that were beyond gifted. 

“I got pushed into the deep end; you’ve got no choice but to figure it out. Ray and Frank are so gifted that I had to keep up. I didn’t want to ever do the music a disservice.

“That brings me back to the simplicity of the early My Chem basslines. The first album [2002’s I Brought You Bullets, You Brought Me Your Love] was me learning the bass, and somehow [producer] John Naclerio recorded me and said, 'You did a great job,' which I did not expect. 

“I thought I was going to go in there and they were going to have to do some studio magic, or someone would come in and play [my] part. I thought of the worst-case scenario, but I went in and did it. I played the bass seriously [enough] by that point.”

What are you generally looking for in a My Chemical Romance bassline? 

“What makes it for me is if I do a fill, I’ll only do it once. If you listen to [the band's 2022 comeback single] The Foundations of Decay, any fill on there I only do one time. What’s interesting about The Foundations of Decay is that it’s very loose and run-and-gun. We went in and punched things in for timing, which everyone in the world does, but the meat of that is first-or-second take. Which brings me to someone else who was very instrumental to my bass playing: Doug McKean.

“He’s no longer with us, unfortunately, but he was our engineer from The Black Parade [until his passing in 2022]. He was always a huge cheerleader for me – he instilled confidence in me. He was always good at getting a killer performance out of me.”

What are some of the biggest My Chemical Romance bass moments for you?

“I’ll say that fill in on Foundations. No-one saw that coming.”

There’s a YouTube video out there of someone playing their favorite Mikey Way basslines, some while using your signature Squier Mustang, but one standout in particular is The Black Parade’s The Sharpest Lives.

“What’s funny is Sharpest Lives has a bass solo, and I was terrified of it. I had performance anxiety [through] the 12 years before we broke up – I don’t have it anymore. Somehow when the band got back together, a switch in my brain [got] flipped. [But] while My Chem was active, I was borderline terrified a lot of the time.

“I’m playing with people far above my skill level, I’m playing [on bills] with bands where their bass players are way better than me, [and] our shows were getting massive. We were playing arenas! So not only are you learning the bass, but you’re learning the bass in front of 20,000 people every night. It made me tweak a little, but I think it shaped me into what I became.

“That solo gave me anxiety. It was when we were playing the biggest venues of our career, and it would break for the solo [Way starts singing his ascending bass lick]. I practiced it relentlessly, then it [became] second nature. Later on, it [became my favorite part of the show.”

You’re already playing the Jazz signature in your live show, yeah?

“It’s what I use for the live show. Basically, Fender built [it] for the reunion, and then we made a couple tweaks for when we release it.”

Was there a learning curve at all towards transferring My Chemical Romance songs you’d written on a Mustang onto the Jazz?

“There was Planetary (GO!), a song off Danger Days. I’d guess you’d say the whole thing is a disco beat. It’s dance-y – [Mikey starts singing an octave-popping bassline], I do that for the entirety of the song. I was very happy that I only had to do that on a Mustang, initially [because of the shorter scale]. But going back to what I said, [after] I took a little break, [I] went back to a Jazz Bass. 

“I missed the room, or the way my hand went up and down the neck. I wanted to go back to that, so I jumped back in and felt right at home again.”

How many Jazzes are you bringing on the road?

“I bring two basses out, [but] I stopped even switching [during the set]. This is a testament to Fender craftsmanship – that thing stays in tune. It’s got the four-saddle bridge, and it stays in tune so well. I’m a little neurotic so I’ll tune every few songs, but if I went five to six songs you probably wouldn’t even notice.”

What does it mean to you to now have a fully-formed Fender signature model – as opposed to the Squier – and with the body shape you began your career with?

“It’s really a dream come true. It’s funny, in 2002-3 we started touring across the country. I had a Mexican Jazz Bass, but [the band] were like, 'You have to use something with better electronics; better wood. Step it up!' So, I went into the Guitar Center on Route 46 in New Jersey, and at the time Fender had released a special Guitar Center edition that was silver-flake. 

“It always bugged me that the pickguard was white – it threw me off, aesthetically, and I was like, 'I’m going to change that pickguard one day.' So, I got that, and I was using that for a while. 

“We were out with [Boston emo quartet] Piebald – it was one of our first cross-country tours ever – and one night someone forgot to close the trailer door. We’re driving on the highway, and half the contents spilled out – unfortunately, my bass was a casualty of that.

“But Frank Iero, and his heart of gold, jumped out on the highway in the middle of the night and tried to recover [the bass]. He was like, 'Maybe we can fix it!' I’ll never forget him doing that. He got a chunk of it – it’s in one of our storage units.”

For more information on the Limited Edition Mikey Way Jazz Bass, head to Fender.com.

[greml1nb0i]

Hi there! I just stumbled upon your cozy blog thanks to a post mentioning that Viv will be working on a new series. ^^"

If it's true, then I'm worried just how she might do a terrible job especially since writing doesn't seem to be her specialty (like she's giving me Mindy Kaling vibes). She even announced planning to work on several more seasons of Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss. Shouldn't she at least finish both shows before even moving to other projects? 🤔

I also think in my opinion that she'd work best as a t-shirt graphic artist for Hot Topic 'coz most of her projects felt like a random showcase of her OCs from high school. They're also overly designed and her humor is rather too juvenile than hilarious.

Sorry for the ramble, I just like to share my thoughts out there.

Dont worry about rambling Anon, ive done my fair share and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

I agree on so many aspects of what you said.

Viv shouldnt be making anything new without finishing the already tanking series' she has. Hazbin is only going to get worse [as seen from the leaks] and Helluva is losing the most diehard of fans, attention. she's sinking her career quicker and quicker. She can't write, and even admits that herself several times. She steals from smaller artists, refuses to credit her artists and employees, is constantly into controversy after controversy, She cant grow up.

Its funny how you mention she gives a Mindy Vibe and i TOTALLY see it. Mindy went on a tirade about how people were shitting on Velma and Viv does the exact same thing, istg those 2 must be sharing a braincell.

Also yes the Hot Topic thing, i have my own 2 cents to put in there.

i swear this has a point to it just stick with me here. If it doesnt make sense to you im sorry, im not the greatest at explaining things.

I grew up in the early 2000s and 2010s, so Hot Topic and Spencer's were major hot spots for me, and lemme tell you. In those times, HT and Spencer's wouldve laughed at Viv for wanting to sell her cheap ass merch there. In fact, most merch sold there now, wouldnt have been, but ever since the big boom of indie creations; these stores ended up with different purposes.

HT never used to be a online merch store for indie creators, it used to be an actual punk store for punk and alt teens. Same with Spencer's but it was more for adults. You couldnt find things that werent punk or alt in regular stores thats why you'd go to HT or Spencer's.

Thats where youd get your AOT merch, Black Butler, Supernatural, Addams family, Jack Skellington, Band shirts like Korn, MCR, BVB, and Splitknot were sold there.

But now, its HH and HB merch. Fnaf, [im a fnaf fan before anyone comes for for that] and sparkle bs.

You cant find the punk merch you want, cuz its being switched out for Vivs bullshit and being buried in the back storages until they start having major sales to just get rid of it.

Now Spencer's' is being turned into the New HT, and HT is being turned into the kiddie emo version of Claires. its so fucking sad to watch.

My point to all this is.

Viv didnt need to sell her merch in HT.

HT doesnt need to be selling her merch to kids.

Viv shows are not made for kids, but yet she sells her merch at a teen based punk store.

HT doesnt need to be pandering to every indie creator that calls them to collab or sell their shitty 40$ t-shirts.

Viv doesnt need more money.

HT and Spencer's need to get their shit together before they go fucking bankrupt and we lose the only 2 punk-alt stores to exist physically.

Last i checked, BlackCraft Cult doesnt have an in person store.

[gabrielsbubblegumbitch]

As you know by now, I absolutely love your headcanons, especially about the Vees, so I was curious to know that you think their love life might have been like on earth. Vox, I could imagine being married and having kids for appearance sake, but hating it. Val, I could see getting married once when he's still young, but overall being more of a fuckboy with plenty of illegitimate children. And Velvette, I'm not really sure. What are your thoughts on the Vees here?

tw // mentions of abuse and suicide

Ohh that's a good one!

So let's start with Vox. You've read my fanfic so you know about his wife. Her name was Vivienne and he was crazily in love with her. Well, at the beginning at least. Honestly, he was in love with the idea of her and how perfect they could have been. He proposed to her quickly and she was essentially pressed into the marriage by her parents, because who would deny a famous multimillionaire? But she fucking despised him and used every opportunity to remind him about that. Vox so desperately wanted her to follow his fantasy he grew to be abusive, constantly struggling between love for the imagined version of her and hatred towards her true self. They've never had a children though because she didn't want to be mother of his children and he didn't want to share her attention with anyone. You know how it turned out for them.

Valentino has never gotten married because he's not a monogamous type. His idea of love is an obsessive passion so in his mind he loved many people. None of his significant ones could bare him for longer than few months. Plus his way of living didn't support building stable realtionships. Any person he loved met a morbid end - killed in a fight between cartels, committed suicide to escape abuse, died of drug overdose or murdered by him. He thinks of himself as a tragic romantic hero, never destined to get his happily ever after because of course he doesn't recognize that he was the problem all along. Also I totally agree he has a bunch of illegitimate children and wouldn't be able to recall a single of their mothers' names. Actually I kinda like the idea that he has a daughter somewhere in hell that is currently plotting how to kill him for being a fucking garbage of a man.

Velvette I headcanon as aromantic and having a severe intimacy issues (disclaimer: those two things are not by any means connected, aromanticism doesn't equal any kind of issue and aro people can built deep and fulfilling raltionships; Velvette is just evil and self centred, that's the problem). So she has never had a love life per se but during her living days as a influencer she dated some fuckboy that looked good on her Instagram and helped her with building brand. Her followers were obsessed with their unhinged not-like-other-couples content, similarly that people used to be obsessed with Harley and Joker in 2010s. But of course Velvette was the big daddy in this relationship, he was just an arm candy, some dumb rich Jared recording emo tracks funded by his parent's money.

[hisgxrlfriday]

RR fans and their scary parasocial ways

So I've been thinking about this for a little while and with the WWWY announcement a lot of attitudes have been re-emphasised online. I love Ryan and I honestly just feel bad- I don't think ruined is the right word nor am I trying to speak on his behalf. A lot of this is my opinion, but also, I'm really not making stuff up I'm just using them to justify my viewpoint. I'm gonna try and break it up into paragraphs, i know i said an essay but I'm in the middle of exams and theres nothing i want less than to write another damn essay.

Without further ado, here's my commentary on fan culture and how it how seems to have impacted Ryan Ross.

To clairfy, I'm assuming he's a bit done wiith the whole fame thing based off how little we see of him- compared to like, Jon.

Initial reception-

Obviously Panic blew up massively very early on, when they were very young. And fans treated them really gross. As a band they were harassed- if someone said to their favourite artist today "I want to lick you" they would get torn up. But there's a video where they talk about these kinds of comments being made to them at shows, and the interviewer laughs. These kids were young. Jon wasn't old enough to drink. And the behaviour was considered totally fine. Was it because they were a bunch of teenage boys, why wouldn't they want hot chicks all over them?

I'm not going to evaluate the effects harassment has. I am, however, sure you can understand. Yes that is just one example. But theres no doubt it happened plenty of times and people did not care. I'll go more into the sexualisation of the members later as well. But yeah. This was the treatment people dished out to Panic, its kinda obviously not cool! This is certainly more general than the rest, btw.

That fan who pretended to be Brendon Urie-

The sheer extent Chelsey Lynn went to in order to catfish Ryan is literally incriminating.

Here are the details: https://www.tumblr.com/pathetic-at-the-disco/171916782926/the-time-that-ryan-ross-was-catfished-by-a-fan

Brendon and Ryan's friendship, according to this, had officially fractured in 2010 and Chelsey wanted to rekindle it. We'll never know the genuine intent and that sucks- not too mention that you could begin to believe that it was driven by a sickening desire to prove 'Ryden'. It sucks that this fractured any chance of Ryan and Brendon hanging again- because Ryan clearly wanted that. And of course, he was so embarrassed. Why would he trust fans, why would he want to interact with anyone after that?

I think its clear that this did have a lasting impact, because Ryan clearly wasnt interested in rekindling the friendship after it occurred, personally I would never want to look at Brendon again after those messages leaked, its just a very personal thing and it sucks. We know that it was awkies between them because of that video from c2016 (made up time based on his hair) where Brendon explains that yeah, they saw each other somewhere and the conversation was super awkward the kind of thing you get from someone you literally toured the world with.

That instance in itself would have been enough for me to flee the country personally, but maybe I'm projecting.

The Milk Fic-

If Brendon Urie knows about it and Gerard Way read it, everyone ever knows about the milk fic. And theres two ways you can address this. I read the milk fic when i was young and it was gross. and then I read it again when I was older and that shit isnt just gross- its like. abhorrent. appalling. offensive. I think the issue with this isn't that its RPF- it's the fact that it is disturbingly vulnerable, highkey is romanticising abuse, and was (and kinda still is) the punchline to too many jokes. Aged 10 I proudly watched 'emo bands on crack' and other videos of the sort a lot, and the milk fic was mentioned a lot. Literally today (october, 2024) I saw a TikTok about it.

I think if i was a celebrity I would want people writing shit about me. Yay for a bit of fanfic. But when the work that is associated with you so broadly on social media is that... blegh. Its like, violating. I love CrankThatFrank, always did, but I'm telling you if Ryan Ross knew anything of CTF's content, which I assume he did based off the interview, Ryan totally knew about the milk fic. And that is no hate, Franks content was banger, and he wasnt the only person who contributed to it. So. I dont know, I dont see why fans would write that, but obviously the only people who would write about celebrities are fans. Its backwards.

[Edit] just proving my point, the photo at the end was posted on Halloween in 2024 and it’s soooo off putting that I’m not even blocking out the user

Conclusion-

I was gonna do a chunk about all his dickriders online but. I hope for their sake and his sake he doesnt see any of it. It's unfortunately embarassing. I'm going to pretend that he is completely unaware of them therefore it cant impact the relationship he has with them.

Anyways. Unsure if the tone of this is perfect, I've not really done a grammar check and I very well could keep adding to this post. Thank you for taking the time to read this all <3 happy to explain my thinking

[rain-ghoul-appreciator]

ok ive the brain was braining and i have ended up with headcannons on how the ghouls died and all the lovely shit

(tagging @ominousposting cause our ideas r so similar its kinda scary) ((super telepathy magic right here kids)) (((cause im like 98% sure ive never seen they're ghoul lore posts before this so i dont really wanna say i got inspo from them but yea its cool we're cool everything is cool 🫶🫶)))

under the cut and obv tw for death, murder, overdose, disease, drowning, fire, suicide, car accidents and poison (wow thats a lot)

phantom

died in 2010 from a car crash

will not get in a car no matter how empty the roads are

was only 17 when he died

youngest ghoul in the band (death year wise)

has all the humor from the 2000s still and it drives everyone absolutely nuts (inspired this post)

aurora

died in 1925 from accidental poisoning

was one of the flapper girls and was from a fairly wealthy family

was 24 when she was accidentally poisoned by a drink that was meant for someone else

3rd oldest band ghoul (death year wise)

still absolutely loves 1920s fashion and experiments with it by adding current trends and basically becoming the fashionista of all time

cumulus

murdered in 1953 by her husband

queen in the kitchen then, queen in the kitchen now (like seriously she can make anything and everything and its kinda scary cause how tf does she do it)

was 33 when she died cause her husband thought that she was to old and not good enough for him anymore (fuck this random guy)

4th oldest band ghoul (death year wise)

found some of her old cook books from before she died and makes nice little homecooked meals for all the ghouls every sunday because it makes her happy seeing all of them happy

rain

died in 2003 from suicide

emo kid emo kid emo kid (that kid was mcr's second fan) ((frank iero was the first obviously)) (((but he was second)))

was 15 when he killed himself, his parents were devastated

2nd youngest band ghoul (death year wise)

was absolutely stoked to find out that mcr was one of the biggest emo bands and influenced so many other bands (he almost passed out listening to music again for the first time)

mountain

died in his sleep from a disease in 1979

was the kindest guy ever but when he got sick everyone kinda avoided him cause they didn't want to get sick and felt bad seeing him like that

was 27 when he died and his whole neighborhood wished they could have done something more

5th oldest band ghoul (death year wise)

was really excited when he was introduced to the greenhouse for the first time because his room was always filled with plants before he died and it felt like his own little piece of home

sunshine

died 1995 from breast cancer

was very lonely because she spent most of her prime socializing years in a hospital bed

eventually died at 29 and was happy when she did

3rd youngest band ghoul (death year wise)

purposefully grows out her hair really long so she can cut it and donate it to make wigs for people with cancer cause she wants to help ppl be more confident with themselves and not end up like she did

dewdrop

died in 1991 from drowning

never really learned how to swim because he lived in the middle of a desert where there was no water so he felt like he didn't have to worry

was 25 when a friend pushed him off a boat as a joke and he was never able to get back up

4th youngest band ghoul (death year wise)

even though the element switch hurt like a bitch and ripped a whole piece of himself out, he felt somewhat relieved because the lingering fear of water was no longer plaguing his mind

aether

died in 1864 from a house fire

had 2 kids and a wife and they lived out in the country side in the middle of no where

was 38 when the house caught fire and he died saving his family from the flames

2nd oldest band ghoul (death year wise)

was still so incredibly british when he was summoned that dew had a heart attack when he started talking

cirrus

died in 1798 after being murdered by an angry mob

was a major activist for womens rights and had her own little rebellion against all the stupid expectations set for women back then

was 32 when an angry mov finally snuffed her out and killed her along with the rest of her little rebellion

oldest band ghoul (death year wise)

is still a hige advocate for women's rights and has to try not to laugh when someone says that she looks like/acts like herself before death (cause they obv dont know thats her lmao she cracks up everytime)

swiss

died in 1981 from a drug overdose

was an addict and wanted to stop but he couldn't afford getting help and his family didn't want to be associated with him so he was kinda on his own

overdosed at age 35 because he couldn't live like this anymore so death was the only option that he believed was available

5th youngest band ghoul (death year wise)

refuses to do any other drug than weed because he is still so extremely paranoid about becoming an addict again or accidentally overdosing

[angsty-prompt-hole]

WIP Question Tag Game

Tagged by @ceph-the-ghost-writer

Rules: Answer as many (or as few) of the questions about your WIP as you can.

Tagging: I'm leaving this as an open tag

I'll be answering all of them for A Hero's Call.

1. What was the first part of your WIP that you created?

The very first part of A Hero's Call that I created was the concept of dimension jumping in general. It was inspired by both the ghost portals from Danny Phantom and my middle school self's mighty need for crossover content from my favorite shows, and then I kind of just made a self insert to make those crossovers happen, and that self insert evolved into Kira.

2. If your story was a TV show, what would the intro song be?

So, when I was young and naive and didn't know how filmmaking worked, I wanted A Hero's Call to be a tv show. The intro song was always gonna be some sort of early 2000's rock/emo/metal song, and I almost always came back to In The End by Black Veil Brides. And honestly, I still stand by that.

3. Who are your favourite character(s) and why?

So, I love Kira, I really do, she's the main character after all. HOWEVER, my blorbos for the series are definitely Lucent and Cairn, which is really funny if you have the knowledge I do (that knowledge being that Lucent has ice powers and Cairn has fire powers). Lucent was a character I originally made to rp with some friends without having to use my already established characters, because I was weird and had stupid hangups about sharing my work, and she's kind of become my punching bag OC of the series which is how I know she's one of my favorites. I love making her go through physical and emotional torment.

Cairn is just fun for me to think about conceptually, because he's a villain that really could have chosen redemption, and he almost does at quite a few different points in his life, but ultimately he succumbs to the cycle of abuse and gives in to that darker side of himself. Also the thought of this very inhuman-looking dude having a Tumblr is SO funny to me (he is canonically VERY internet-savvy).

4. What other pieces of media could share a fan base with your WIP?

Any number of media pieces tbh, but the biggest one would probably be Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which was a HUGE inspiration for this project.

5. What has been your biggest struggle while writing your WIP?

Writing the beginning of it. I've struggled so hard with it and I can never figure out what's holding me back, which annoys me. And the more I write the more I discover that when I have all the pieces to a story that I want to tell, the writing starts flowing eventually. But with this WIP I've just had to drag those first few chapters out kicking and screaming from my brain and I can tell something is missing, but I don't know what.

6. Are there any animals in your story?

Yes, there are. There's the Shade family dog, a golden retriever named Gary (who is, in fact, just my real dog inserted into the story), and there's also Lucent's "pet" Jannik, who is a ferret-like creature called a skitnik. Emily and Pickle are ranch kids so they have a ton of animals that sometimes get mentioned, but Gary and Jannik are more central to the plot than those animals are.

7. How do your characters get around?

All the normal ways you would get around in rural Wyoming in the 2010's (cars, horses, off-road vehicles, etc). And, of course, dimension jumping.

8. What part of your WIP are you working on right now?

I'm rewriting the first few chapters (again) to try and get them ready to post on AO3 because I've been churning out fanfiction nonstop because of how much the kudos and comments go to my head, so I want to see if putting my original works on AO3 would spur me on to work on them more.

9. What aspects of your WIP do you think will draw people in?

I think that the characters and the worldbuilding will be the major draws for people, cause I have a LOT of lore and a lot of fun characters to introduce and I think it'll be fun for people to explore.

[missmisdemeanor]

i dont know much about scene at all!! infodump on us! what are the primary scene groups? what makes music "scene"? what's the fashion that correlates with it? do tell!!

i don't want to like scene-splain as someone who was too young to actually be on myspace or go to warped tour and all that but here goes,

scene music can generally be split into two categories- crunkcore and metalcore. crunkcore is a portmanteau of crunk and hardcore, which includes groups like brokeNCYDE, the millionaires, attack attack and, unfortunately blood on the dance floor. you'll see crunk beats combined with hardcore elements like scream vocals. metalcore is metal and hardcore, including bands like asking alexandria, avenged sevenfold, bring me the horizon, and falling in reverse. these aren't crisp and sepatate categories though, and you'll find elements of both in groups like 3OH!3. scene music isn't entirely limited to this categorization or time period, i'd consider the music 6arelyhuman is making today to be scene, and an argument could be made that a lot of "emo rap" follows in the footsteps of groups like brokeNCYDE.

compared to emo, scene fashion tends to be brighter, more colourful, and more extreme, as well as including motifs like diamonds and brass knuckles that aren't shared with emo. it also borrows a lot of style from the hip-hop culture at the time, you'll find slotted shades in pictures and mentions of grills in lyrics. (now is probably an important time to mention that scene wasn't a perfect community at all- it was pretty fatphobic and racist in many circles despite taking elements from black fashion and music, and ultimately reflected a lot of the popular attitudes of the time, late 2000s-early 2010s. for an unfortunate example, jeffree star first got famous in the 'scene.' exclusive scene groups were made on myspace and membership was policed largely by looks.)

the name "scene" itself comes from the music and party scene; and this is where i'm arguably "not real scene" either. seeing bands, partying hard, and meeting people from myspace is fundamentally what the scene WAS. there's crossover with raving here too, bands like S3RL were popular, a lot of scene kids made kandi (as do i), and of course there's the drug use.

aaand yeah, this is what i have off the top of the dome! scene today is a lot more inclusive than it used to be, and people who identify with the movement are very aware of its issues. (one of my faves is clawed_beauty, and it's parasocial as fuck to say she's really nice, but i do believe she's very positive) it does also bear mentioning that emo, scene, and myspace were places for many people to experiment with identity and sexuality, and this is where "kids are being bisexual because it's trendy" partially comes from. there's a lot and i'm not an organized person.

final note, i connected with scene personally in, try not to cringe, the darkest time of my life. my bipolar disorder was undiagnosed, i'd been in and out of psych wards for suicide attempts, and music that was simultaneously about having crazy fun and being in self-destructive pain and anger really clicked with me. the fashion seemed like a way to express myself outside of what other people wanted or expected of me. so...yeah

[trickstarbrave]

Can I please have your scenecore music reccs these playlists are killing me but I want new music to listen to

i actually dont like a lot of scene music nowadays and ironically i like more music on the scenecore playlists for nostalgia bgfhgregh they get some right but also. some are just vocaloid songs or random electronic japanese inspired ones??? when most of the acknowledgment japan got in the subculture was just hello kitty. but sure i can give a brief overview of what i thought were Classic Scene Music from my era

(please note pretty much every big name creator was either bullied relentlessly or is just the most awful person in existence, maybe both. you cannot throw a rock into classic scene music without hitting a fucking predator or racist, usually you will hit more than once. this is not a recommendation of artists to support financially or even good music)

fer sure is like. the most quintessential scene song i can think of. it is horrible, nonsense lyrics that revolve around just mentioning sex and drugs and myspace and getting ur hair done. but it was the bop of the year. i can still recite the fucking jkjkjkjk lololol bridge.

bring me the horizon is pretty indicative of the metalcore part of the music subculture. never super into it but i think their music has mostly held up???

metro station. shake it was on repeat for me.

jeffree star. he embodies some of the worst aspects of the scene subculture scene. chronically online, racist and sexist as hell, spewed more transphobia than a conservative or terf today, and just annoying in general. his music was pretty iconic for scene kids tho and he helped build up some of the aesthetics of it

blood on the dancefloor. see above for jeffree star but worse along with child predators and worse music. the genre of music i would describe it as is "music that would make your parents ban you from ever using the internet again in your entire life" which was appealing when you were 15 during the height of shock culture of the late 2000's/early 2010's. the music is worse than jeffree star's though like i said, musically disjointed, hard to listen to at some points, with equally disjointed or weirdly rhymed lyrics. it was again pretty iconic at the time and exemplified some of the scene culture in this time period in multiple ways.

hellogoodbye was like. more chill in many aspects to the point it may be hard to categorize it as scene but it kind of fed into scene culture so i would recommend them on some level. it would show up on someone's myspace or knock off myspace more often than not.

mayday parade i feel is newer...? or maybe they have just stuck around culturally more lol. i still like their cover of when i grow up i confess.

miss murder by AFI was constantly playing on my ipod nano before classes if that helps.

if you put metal, screamo, pop punk, and techno in a blender with drugs and sex you probably have scene music. a gif of gir dancing to sexy vampire is also incredibly scene on the techno side. but most of the playlists lack the variety you will see and need more pop punk and emo lest they actually just be "fast paced music you listened to on the internet in 2010"

[georganas]

The subculture of West New York, NJ 07093 & who are these kids!?

During COVID, I searched for remnants of the alternative/emo culture that once thrived in West New York (WNY). Growing up, my sister and her friends introduced me to the music, parties, and the scene, just as it was coming to an end. I was so excited to enter Memorial and be part of the basement scene, only to discover it was already fading. Like every era, it must come to an end. Societal factors—new music, the rise of social media, and teenagers growing up—likely contributed to its decline. I really wish I had experienced more of it while it lasted. I would like to note though that I feel a revival coming thanks to all the local shows happening at the VFW.

But, back to my point, I started searching for anything that could help preserve and honor the WNY music scene from the early 2000s through the early 2010s. Unfortunately, due to the failed MySpace move, many files and images from that time were lost. Every day, I hope there’s a way to recover those memories. Ugh.

Through the grapevine, and thanks to my partner, I heard about a venue called The Basement @ 591 55th St. The picture above is from an interview I found, showcasing local bands like Astrophel & Stella, who played there. Shout out to the author, Arthur Pascale. Isn't it crazy that someone did an interview on a local venue? In 2008? I love to see it.

It’s a shame I can’t find more pictures online from this local venue, but I wanted to blog about it and remind us how this scene played such an important role in shaping who some of us are, and even this town. New Jersey is known for contributing to the early stages of emo/alternative music scene, with places like Sayreville, Maxwell's (RIP), New Brunswick, and Montclair hosting shows, recordings, and house events—and West New York was right there with them.

This post is special to me. This community has a lot of passion, talent, and ambition and I will forever shout this out. There are so many bands and artists that I want to continue to spotlight, El Shelter, Arrows in her, Animarum, Crystal Plains, and the list goes on. Please send me local bands old and new.

If you have any pictures that you would like to share, please send them. I would love to honor them & of course, give you credit.

[ajoytobeheld]

Film 2010

January 1st, 2011

Films I thought Were Good Last Year

So….

Lets start with “Cracks,” which I know was released on the cusp of 2009 BUT it didnt make it to my local arthouse cinema until 2010, so for me, that counts. I frequently go the cinema alone because its pointless to socialize in dark rooms and the lack of a normal 9-5 job means there aren’t many people willing to bunk off work to see the daytime showing of a film about psychotic lesbian teachers… (or are there?)

Anyway, lonesome cinema trips are a cathartic experience for distracting me out of what ever bad mood I have found myself in and at that point, early 2010, I had a case of mild heartbreak (emo music! Moping! etc) and this film lifted my spirits. It is a cheesy sentiment yes, but none the less true..

Winters Bone

A film about meth, squirrels and snow. Wonderfully underplayed and I was pretty smug throughout because I snuck in my own penny sweets.

Toy Story 3

I had so much doubt with its lack of Josh Whedon on writing credits and it’s presentation in pointless 3D but luckily it was great. I also think its nice for Tim Allen to have something to do.

Youth in Revolt

Do you dimly remember when Michael Cera was in Arrested Development and you thought “he’s good, i see a bright future for him as long as he doesn’t get pigeonholed as the same character in everything and become really annoying…plus he looks a bit like a dinosaur.” Well, our fears came true. Pigeonholed and more dinosaur like everyday, which is why it was a surprise to me when I enjoyed his dual performance as the protagonist Nick Twisp and the protagonists French moustache twirling alter ego Francois in this well written and silly film. Plus he manages to perform in it without ruining a comic franchise.

BONUS.

The Social Network

Thought it was gonna be okay, but it was actually better then okay and overcame that whole nasty Benjamin Button misfire by Mr Fincher, and I also think its one of the only films i could happily sit through twice in the space of a week.

Fish Tank

I feel there is a theme of cheating in this because once again this film came out in late 2009 but once again it was not avaliable for most Cardiff based mortals to view until 2010. Andrea Arnold has made a few films about put upon women and this film details the dancing ambitions of a girl who becomes embroiled in a very inappropriate relationship with her mothers boyfriend. Step Up it is not. The star of the film Katie Jarvis is much like 90’s star Shola Ama.

Jarvis was “spotted” after Arnold witnessed her arguing with her boyfriend at a train station much like Ama gained a record deal after she was heard singing on a tube. But I have higher hopes for the career of Jarvis.

The Runaways

I double billed this film with something else I cant remember, so that couldn’t have been as good…. Kristen Stewart proves she isn’t all mumbly hair sucking and she kind of rocks this

Kick Ass

This film made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside many many times.

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo

I confess I have not seen the rest of the millennium trilogy but this first effort was a well constructed who dunnit which may have felt televisual but if its good enough to require a America remake for those who cant read subtitles then that’s something….

Whip It

I saw this film when we were trapped in London because of the DAMMED VOLCANO. I was feeling pretty distraught about fate sending me back to Cardiff when I really wanted to be in New York so I needed some escapism.

I swallowed my reservations about this possibly being shit and gave it a go….and its bloody amazing. It doesn’t follow the generic “girl coming of age”  formula I expected plus has a line I can really relate to.

“I didn’t have a Barbie-roller-skates-phase, I had a fat-kid-sits-inside-and-reads-phase.”

The Killer Inside Me

It always feels strange to see a film alone in the afternoon about a sociopath who brutally beats up Jessica Alba and Kate Hudson, but sometimes your just in that kind of mood. Much like “Lust, Caution” I went to see this film based on the controversy that surrounded it, and much like  “Lust, Caution” I was pleasantly surprised by how good it was, and how a few well publicised scenes do not dictate what a film is actually about.  Though Michael Winterbottoms film is brutal and tough viewing it is also very good and at time hilarious, and the horrific violence of those few scenes did not feel like a effort in misogyny from the director, rather an effort in showing how truly unfeeling and narcisstic Casey Afflecks character is. The ending is pretty insane as well.

Monsters

When watching this I was aware of a building sense of unrest within certain fractions of the audiences, they were turning to each other and asking “is this title perhaps a bit misleading? There are definetely less monsters and more soft focus then I was expecting…Shall we sit here and giggle inanely instead of watching the film because we are too stupid to appreciate it? YES LETS.” Loved this film.

Of Gods and Men

I dragged my mother and sister along to this telling them a French film about Trappist monks in Algeria could be a bit of a laugh. Subtle and beautiful and I cried my eyes out like a little baby during the scene soundtracked by Swan Lake.

Other Notable Mentions

Eclipse

Harry Potter

Buried

Another Year

Ponyo!

Worst film Eva

Sex and the City 2

[bowtiesnmusicals]

Here is my recap of the A-List Guest List (The Substitute) episode of the podcast.

Today they are basically talking all things Gwyneth Paltrow.

Kevin said its the substitute day aka Gwyneth Paltrow’s Emmy award winning performance on her first episode Glee. They both said she looks so good.

Kevin said it was infuriating that when she showed up they were like she doesn’t really want to wear make -up. Jenna said they were like don’t really do her hair. She was like just straighten it from the half down and don’t touch the top and there she was looking younger then all of us. Kevin said it’s infuriating.

The episode aired on November 16, 2010.

The #1 song was What’s My Name? By Rihanna.

The #1 movie was Unstoppable staring Denzel Washington and Chris Pine.

Lea and Cory were on the cover of Teen Vogue. Jenna said they looked very angelic. Kevin said I mean beautiful like models. Jenna said the lighting.

Some of the cast when to the GQ Magazine Men of the Year event at the Chateau. Kevin said it looks like he had an accident with a hair straightener. Jenna said you looked like you stepped out of the emo 2000s. Kevin said it was bad. They were filming something at the mall where Kevin did Safety Dance and they had all of two seconds to get ready in their trailers. Jenna said that is when this whole thing started where if they had to go to an event they were so busy working they had hair and make-up come to set to get them ready and they would go straight from set. It was not the ideal. Kevin said it was no ideal and you saw what happened with my hair .This event is where Kevin met Dougie Booth. He said it was worth getting ready really quickly so he could befriend one Douglas Booth.

This episode was directed by Ryan Murphy. Jenn and Kevin both didn’t remember this but it makes sense because this episode is directed very well and its a very funny episode. Jenna said she couldn’t see anyone else directing Gwyneth in her first episode.

Special guest star is Gwyneth Paltrow herself as Holly Holiday.

There are a lot of teeny tiny costars in this episode. The child version of the Glee Club which was so cute. Kevin said he loved them. Jenna said that was the best. They both quoted the Mr. Schue you look a little green. Jenna said she remembers being back behind in village when they were doing this scene and everyone trying not to crack up laughing. All the parents of the little kids were there, of course obviously. Jenna said how cute were they. Kevin said they were all there watching obsessed. It was very surreal. Jenna said she has a photo of all of them with their minis that she can post later. They were all really cute and so good. Kevin said he doesn’t even want to look up how old they are now.

Jessalyn returns for this episode.

There aren’t that many songs in this episode. They listed the songs.

Gwyneth Paltrow won’t the Emmy for Outstanding Guest Actress in a Comedy Series. Kevin said outstanding she was.

This episode Mr. Schue gets sick. There is something going around and it takes out the principal and the glee club director. Holly Holiday comes in to take over his Spanish class and at the work of Kurt, the Glee Club. She winds up winning everyone over. Sue is temporarily principal and gets crazy. She takes away the tots. Kevin said the whole episode made him hungry. Jenna said they looked really good.

Kevin said before they get into this they have to talk about Gwyneth for a hot second. He said he was so nervous and starstruck because this was the first time he had ever been around an Oscar winner. He wasn’t sure how he was going to be able to play it really cool. He said you know when you try to play it cool and you come off actually cold and like rude. He was very worried about that because he just wouldn’t speak. He said between takes he would be whistling to himself and not making eye contact. He said luckily Gwyneth is one of the coolest, doesn’t give a shit, chillest person you could ever meet. She was incredible. Jenna said she was so much fun. Jenna said her stature is so large. Kevin said that aura. Jenna said she comes up and you are like oh my god like I get it. She was so cool and so chill and hung out with them between takes. She didn’t walk away. Kevin said she was always with them hanging out. She brought her kids a lot. It was really a fun time and Jenna said she doesn’t think they ever expected that from Gwyneth. Gwyneth gave them all hand written thank you notes for being on the show. It was really sweet. Jenna said she remembers being like oh we are doing two musical numbers. Kevin said when he realized he was singing on a song with her he couldn’t wait for his family to see this. I have really come up. Jenna asked Kevin if he remembered when Gwyneth came on tour and did the O2 with them. They did Forget You. She said she had Apple with her. She rehearsed with them and said she wanted to go out and watch the show. Jenna thinks that Gwyneth got escorted by Telly to a seat. She was wearing a Glee sweatshirt with the hood up and no one knew. Kevin said no one knew because we were so entertaining no one was watching Gwyneth in the audience. Jenna said yeah sure. Jenna was like you are going to watch the show. You don’t want to stay back here and hang. Kevin said he feels like he performed most of that show for Apple and her friends. He said right before it started Apple nicknamed him Artiepants. They ere standing on the side of the stage and every time he would go over there he would yell out Artiepants and point to them and they would scream and dance around. Kevin said it was very surreal. You grow up hearing about someone and seeing them in movies and tabloids in things and were like oh now we are just hanging with Gwyneth in London or eating pizza off the hood of a car on the backlot as they are shooting with her and her kids. Jenna said this is wild. Kevin said they are still friends and she is great and wonderful. Jenna said we love her. Jenna said she is just in the Glee family now having married Brad. Kevin said see Glee was life changing for her too.

There is a flu going around and Sue makes sure Principal Figgins gets it. Zizes sneezes on Figgins. Jenna said this moment made her think of covid. She was like don’t sneeze on them. Kevin said no very scary. Figgins gets very sick and Sue becomes principal and her first order of business is she is going to destroy the glee club again. Will gets sick and this will be the other part of this episode. Will goes down as well.

Sue also tries to take down the football team. The both start laughing about the scene where Sue goes to Coach Bieste and disbanding the football team. Coach Bieste, for the first time we see her in a power position, says well who are your cheerleaders going to cheer for. Sue’s reaction was great. Jenna said this was one of her favorite scenes. Kevin said he loved this scene. Cut to her writing her book, humiliation. it’s so good.

So obviously then with Schue down bad with the monkey flu we need a new Glee club instructor. Rachel tries it for a hot second which is very funny but the Glee club is obviously not having it. Kurt recruits the sub for Spanish which is none other then Holly Holliday aka Gwyneth Paltrow. He convinces her to take over the Glee club after being in her English class where she does a full musical number of Conjunction Junction. Kevin she some in, in what he thinks is probably one of the most famous scenes of the show now. Puck buttering the floor, Kurt and Rachel slipping on the butter, and Gwyneth cooly sliding in. Jenna asked Kevin if I he remembered how Gwyneth did the butter. Kevin said he didn’t. Jenna said they put her on roller skates and she skated in. Kevin said he doesn’t remember that at all. Jenna was going on today with roller skates. Kevin said he remembers not knowing what was going on and clearly they didn’t read the script. He said how do we know what was happening this scene. Jenna said they were like what’s going on with the butter and what are you talking about but yeah she was on roller skates or rollerblades. She said she will never forget it.

So Holly comes in and asks them what they want to do. Jenna said which is such a concept and its like when a director asked them what they wanted to do. Puck says Ceelo and so Holly Holiday does her first number. Kevin said Gwyneth ended up doing this at the Grammys with Ceelo which is crazy. That’s a crazy impact. That was one of the biggest songs of the year, you are nominated for a Grammy, and you have Gwyneth Paltrow come on a do it with you because that version was so big. Kevin said isn’t that insane. Jenna said it’s crazy. She said she didn’t know Gwyneth could sing like that and asked Kevin if he knew. Kevin said no and that she was super excited to do it. A lot of the guest stars wanted to come on the show because a lot of people can sing and don’t get the opportunity to if they are movie stars or tv stars. There’s not a lot of musical going around. He said he thinks she sounded great on the song.

Jenna said they had to go back to Conjunction Junction for just one second. She said their producers found this thing and its like got goss. She said when Holly Holiday makes that dig about Lindsay Lohan, Kevin said oh that was in the Spanish class, apparently Deena Lohan was very upset about the jab and she doesn’t know if thats true. There are reports that cast made amends with Lindsay over a dinner. Kevin said it wasn’t a dinner. They did hang out with her after the SAG awards at the Chateau Mormont. He said he thinks that is what this has to be in reference to. He said he does think Ryan is mean and stupid and she didn’t deserve it. It was at the time where everyone was ragging on Lindsay. Jenna said it felt like anything went at that point. Kevin said which is terrible. They hung out with her and he said he thinks her and Chris stayed friends for awhile. Jenna said WHAT?!?! Kevin said she was cool with us. Jenna said and then she came on the show so she was fine. Jenna said she thought maybe there was a dinner with Ryan and Lindsay. Kevin said maybe but he sort of assumed it was what he talked about before because they hung out all night. Jenna said yeah you guys did. Kevin’s as like where were you. Jenna said she was there but she didn’t hang out with her. Kevin said why would have been there and not with us. Jenna said she was but she didn’t hang out with her, she didn’t engage. Kevin said did you have a beef with Lindsay Lohan. Jenna said yeah. She did a photoshoot with Jenna’s ex-boyfriend at one point and it was very sexy and she was not a fan of her. Kevins said I remember this. Jenna said she was sure Lindsay was going to make a pass at him and neither of them cared, that’s the funny part. She shouldn’t have blamed Lindsay she should blamed her ex-boyfriend. Kevin said he completely forgot about that. Jenna said her and Lindsay grew up in the same town essentially on Long Island. They used to run in the same circles and audition for the same things. She said they grew up acting. She said she doesn’t think she worked with Lindsay all that much. Kevin said crazy. He said because they were all around the same ageish and growing up in LA he started getting snuck into clubs at 16 or 17 and that all stopped when she got caught going into clubs underage. They started putting sheriffs outside all the clubs they would go to. Jenna said she ruined it for you. Kevin said yep.

Kevins said they watched the episode and they know what happens.

Kevin said do you remember at this Grammy. Gwyneth introduced them to Beyoncé. She performed with Ceelo. Gwyneth and Beyoncé went as each others dates at the Grammys and sat in the front row. The glee cast were in the 6 or 7 row. Dianna was like next commercial break we are going to make a run for it and they weren’t going to tell anyone else because they can’t have everyone joining us. Jenna said what the hell. Kevin said it was going to be too many people to coordinate. Jenna said fair whatever. Kevin was like it’s Beyoncé I’ve got to go. So they go up and some of them did see us and did join them. Gwyneth was like oh do you know B and introduced them. Kevin said Beyoncé stands and was just very quiet and smiling and Gwyneth was like are we going to do shots after this, very Holly Holiday, and she looks at Beyoncé and Beyoncé was like yeah. Jennas said Beyoncé is kind of short. Like she her stature is even bigger then Gwyneth. Kevin said they are the same height but she wears heels all the time. Jenna said she imagined Beyoncé being twice her height, well she is in all fairness. Jenna said this is the infamous Naya story. They went to the bathroom and Naya was pinning up her dress and Beyoncé came in and was like weren’t you in a movie with my sister. Naya was on the floor pinning Jenna’s dress and she was like no. Beyoncé was like are you sure. Naya was like yeah yeah. Beyoncé was like who told me that. Jenna said they both walked out of the bathroom and were like what just happened. Kevin said he thinks Beyoncé turned to a random person at the sink and was like did you tell me that. He said his sister was in the bathroom with Jenna and Naya. He said he didn’t know where the other boys were. It was only him and they were at an after party. He came out of the bathroom and there was no one around and he looks up and it’s just Jay-z and his body guard. He immediately looked down at his lap like oh my god, oh my god. They had met him before through Gwyneth but anyway. He said his sister came out of the bathroom and was like oh my god do you know what just happened in there. She was with Gwyneth Paltrow and Beyoncé and they are fixing someone’s dress and then Beyoncé asked her for mints because she was taking out these mints. He said he was giving his sister shit all night for having these mints because he thinks they were making her breath worse because she kept eating them because she was so nervous and then Beyoncé asked for mints and his sister was like you can have all of them which he would have said too. Jenna said she doesn’t remember that. Jenna said what a great memory of their one Grammy experience. Then she said that’s not true they went to the Grammys after that but they didn’t go for Glee. Kevin said no we didn’t. We only go to the Grammys when we are nominated. Jenna said that’s fair.

Now back to the show. Holly Holiday is obviously killing it with all of us. We love it. We love her. Sue loves her. Sue is having a gay old time with Holly Holiday. Rachel is like Mr. Schue this girl is coming for your job. You need to come back or you won’t have a job to com back to. He starts to get paranoid and rightfully so because Sue fires him. She hires Holly full time which brings them to a full confrontation. Holly is like look there aren’t a lot of good jobs out there and I need this job. In the meantime what Holly has done has won over Rachel a bit because yo you suck, you are a total drag has everyone ever told you that. Puck’s like I have. Rachel realizes there was an uptempo number she has always wanted to do. Kevin said he loves all these whips to Schue trying to find a Journey song they haven’t done yet. Then they do this big Chicago number which was insane and great. He asked Jenna if she remembers watching it. Jenna said she remembers being happy she was in the audience, Kevin said same, not really remembering watching them but then also being like oh my god they really made both of these girls work really hard. Kevin said and then also budget. Jenna said for Gwyneth you bring budget. Well Gwyneth was the budget but also you bring budget. Kevin said he always did wonder how much the guest stars got paid. Jenna said she thinks it varied. Kevin said probably. Jenna said she doesn’t think it was one rate. Kevin said they have never and will never be privy to that information. Jenna said never. Kevin said guests were the entire budget.

Meanwhile, while Will is home and Holly is basically taking over the Glee club, he is being taken care of by the one and only Terri Schuester. As crazy as she is she knows Will. She brings him soup. She rubs his chest with the vapo rub. Kevin mimics the sick little baby line. Jenna said the baby voice makes her very uncomfortable. Kevin said he hates it because its so good. Will is like get out of here don’t come back but she comes back. She takes care of him in many ways. She gives him Singing in the Rain to watch. This leads to his fever dream of this wonderful number, very random, between him and Harry. Kevin said it’s so random and out of place but excellent. Jenna said its very exciting to watch. Jenna said this number starts and she’s like oh right this is the Singing in the Rain number front his episode, I remember this. Then she looks to the left of screen and was like is that Tina and then she is like that’s not me it’s a crew girl. It’s Tina. Kevin said he remembers her being a part of this. Jenna said she wishes she did because she doesn’t remember being there. Kevin said she didn’t have a lot comparatively. Jenna said she genuinely looked at the screen was was like is that Tina. Kevin said there has been a few times he has done that since they have been doing this podcast. Jenna said okay fair and this was the first one where she was alarmed at the fact that she doesn’t remember being there. Kevin said imagine if you are out on a night and you have a little too much to drink and someone shows you a photo from that night a decade later and you are like I wasn’t there. I left at the first bar. Jenna said that is what it feels like without the fun of the alcohol. Jenna said and then she sees Kevin and the others and was like okay other people were there. Okay I was there. I don’t remember being there. Kevin said if they didn’t have to do anything they really sort of checked out. Jenna said to be fair she doesn’t think they were in a lot of the shots so they don’t think were actually even on the stage. Kevin said we weren’t. Jenna said just making sure. Kevin said you brain is fine.

Terri comes back and is taking care of him again. Somehow they end up canoodling. Kevin said that is one word for it. Jenna said she was like no don’t do it. Kevin said this was the start of a vapor rub. Jenna said this is the beginning and the end or well it should be. Kevin said Terri’s vapor rub walked so your vapor rub could run. Jenna said I’m not quite sure why she was there or why that happened but it moved storyline along. Then Rachel comes and tells him he needs to comeback. She had a mask which is also very covid ptsd. Kevin said they are going to talk about Mercedes with the tots but she gets in trouble for doing something now that Holly is the full time teacher. Holly is like I don’t know to do this actually, I’ve accepted this job and don’t know how to do it. She goes to Schuesters house and has this really great scene. They are really great together. She is upset and vulnerable and starts to open up. They were having a really adult and meaningful conversation. Terri shows up and Holly was like ooh drama. Will kicks her out seemingly for good. Holly says your wife is a bitch.

They other thing happening in this episode is Kurt, Blaine, and Mercedes. Kurt is becoming closer to Blaine. He is spending every waking second with him. They have all these plans. The person that is getting the brunt of the dereliction basically of friendship is Mercedes. Kurt sees Blaine as his new bff in a way and Mercedes is put out to pasture basically. She is like what about me. She keeps trying to make plans and s he’s not excited for him. Meanwhile we see that she loves the tater tots. Jenna said she wondering why the tots came in that scene. Why are they using Mercedes and food right now. What is this thing but then she was like okay okay okay. So Sue decides as part of he principal campaign and reforming the school was reforming the children’s diets and taking away the tots. Mercedes is not happy about it. She loses it. They get taken away. She’s upset. He is basically the third wheel on that date with Kurt and Blaine. Kurt tries to include her and she orders tots. Kurt tries to set her up with someone and Mercedes is just because he is black. Kurt is like kind of. Kurt gives it to her straight and is like I think you are replacing me with food. She brings a box of tots to school. Kevin said he loves when she stands up in the cafeteria and does that Sally Field with the union sign, it’s very that, and everyone stands up and screams tots and Chris is shocked. Kevin said he just loves seeing them together. Then Mercedes stuffs Sue’s Lecar exhaust with tots. Then Holly is brought in and Jenna said she is not sure why Schue or Holly are brought in with the child. Kevin said he just accept it but why. Jenna said because we need a voice of reason against Sue because kids can’t talk back to adults. Mercedes can’t talk back to Sue or she will get expelled. Jenna said she thought it was funny that there was always one of them in there. Kevin said their glee club teacher was their voice. This is where Holly realizes this is out of her capacity and she doesn’t know what she is doing. Mercedes is going to get stuck with he bill to fix the car and Holly was like is this on me, am I going to jail? This is when she shows up at Schue’s place and admits she is out of her depth. This is also when Sue realizes Holly is not a capable teacher in this way. Great as a substitute but we need Schue back as well. Everyone wants Schue back. Sue likes a good foe and Holly is not a good enough foe for her at all. Kevin said does it ever get fully resolved. Jenna said she thinks that she has to repair it and that’s basically it.

Then we get to all roads lead to this pool of water on the auditorium stage. Will realizes when he gets back the kids miss Holly and he’s like okay can you help me make up this number and modernize Singing in the Rain. Jenna said she remembers the umbrellas were an issue. They were not meant to be open and closed every two seconds. Kevin jumped in saying everything was an issue with this number. Jenna said some people really love this number and watching she was like this looks really cool. Kevin said it looks great. Filming it was a nightmare. Kevin said he never hated anything more and said actually that’s not true. Jenna said what the fox say. She then explained their was a box on the stage and it was about a foot high, maybe not even, on each side. It was very short and low to the ground. Then it’s was covered in vinyl and they put water in it. Kevin said and carpet, now they have talked to Andrew and Ryan, there was some sort of carpet in there so they wouldn’t slip. Jenna said thats right they did put the carpet in there. Jenna said she remembers rehearing and said they didn’t rehearse with the extra umbrellas. She said first of all thee is a problem there because these umbrellas weren’t prop umbrellas meant to be open and closed a thousand times. In the choreography you can’t really tell but they were opening and closing them a thousand times. This was the least of their problems though. Jenna said water on the stage did not belong. Kevin said that was just from their perspective and they didn’t know all the other stuff that was going out hat Ryan and Andrew talked about int heir episodes. Andrew told them about the issue with the carpet. Ryan wanted it cleaned out because it got moldy and the water wasn’t clear. So they had to drain it and clean it. They didn’t want to put the cast at risk. Then they were suds in there from cleaning the carpet. Jenna said they told them to kick up as much water as they could get in the air so when they shoot in 48 frames, double time, to make it look like slow motion. People were really getting in there and it was getting into their faces. By the end of one take of the number their rain boots had water up to their shins. The would take their shoes off and just pour the water off. Jenna said she couldn’t see and she was afraid she was going to get hit by an umbrella. It was Ryan directing so they didn’t want to complain.

Jenna said that Kevin was low to the ground and in the corner. Kevin said if you watch the number he doesn’t move. After he does his little Jay-z thing he is as far back in the right corner as possible. He couldn’t see, he was wearing glasses and actually needs them. He was at waist level so everyone is intentionally kicking water up to the height of his face and because he was sitting it was all collecting in his lap. The water might have been warm when it was put in the box but by the time was sitting their being kicked up and exposed to the air its no longer warm. The seat, his clothes, everything was just soaking, sopping, wet. He sat there for half a day. He was so miserable. He wasn’t even dancing. He is barely at the edge of the frame in three shots. He was like he was barely in the number and he had just given up. He had no will to perform and was like I can’t do it. Jenna said if she was him she would have given up too. Kevin said you couldn’t see his eyes anyways and that he might have just been moving his arms. What was he going to do? It was really hard to wheel around the water logged carpet. No one could push him around because they all had props. Jenna said oh no Artie. Kevin said people really do love the number and every time someone says he has to check himself. Jenna said her initial reaction is eugh but it looked really cool. Kevin said its also weird that Holly and Will were performing with the Glee club. Jenna said you had to have a Gwyneth number at the end. Jenna said she remembers looking at the stage in the episode last night when she was watching and thinking oh you wouldn’t really know how they did that and she was like okay I get how people really like this. It looks really cool. Kevin said the rain is coming down in the back. Jenna said she didn’t remember that part. It was really not fun. Kevin said the crew members that actually had to figure out how to do it and get it and drain it and redo it like ugh so good. Jenna said Gwyneth didn’t complain for one second. Kevin said here is the things Gwyneth never ever complained about anything. He said he doesn’t know how much she was getting paid so maybe I wouldn’t either. He said they were constantly learning when they had guest stars and famous people. He said watching her was an education. She did not complain. If she was off camera she would do full out every dance move. When they did Chicago and were getting the audience reactions she was doing it full out. She’s as a professional. Kevins said when she did Turning Tables that was also an education. Jenna said she forgot about that number. Kevin said to remind him to tell that story when they get to that episode.

Jenna said this episode was a journey. Kevins said he likes this episode. He really enjoyed it. Minus some Lindsay Lohan jokes it was really good episode.

Tartie Takes:

Cringe moments/ Ouchies- Kevin the Lindsay Lohan references and Holly’s bipolar rant. Jenna said while her Mary Todd Lincoln impression was very funny the joke itself about the bipolar was not funny. She said all her classroom moments were funny.

Best Dance Move - Kevins said I guess Singing in the Rain. Jenna I don’t know I’ve got to say Harry and Matt doing all those crazy backflips. They really did that. Kevin said, yeah you right, you win. Jenna said I always do.

Best Song - Forget You. Kevin said he does have to say this happened in the last episode with Jenna singing in the mash-up but Naya is singing her face off in these adlibs and is not covered for a single one of them. Jenna said not for a moment. Kevin said in the tour, the live version, you get to see her singing it and singing it live and she sounds incredible. Jenna said she forgot about that too.

Best Performance by a Prop - the tots and not the water bucket they were dancing in

Best Line - Kevin’s favorite line is when Mercedes is at Breadstix with Kurt and Blaine and you just hear gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, I opened my mouth and a little purse felt out. How did that get in there? Jenna said I love that. Kevin said he is obsessed with that. Jenna said that was very funny. Kevin said so good .Jenna said she has another one. When Will says when I’m sick there one thing that makes me feel better and Artie says, and it’s all in the delivery, Gin and juice.

Shit We Found on TikTok:

Kevin asks Jennta are you ready. Jenna said wow bringing back all the old school inside jokes back. She said I’m not ready but I’m ready. Someone on TikTok does the summer surgery fight. It’s two guys in cheerleading uniforms. Jenna watched it laughs hysterically. Kevin said he thinks it’s wonderful. Jenna said it’s really funny. Kevin said isn’t it cute. Jenna said very cute. Kevin said thanks for making that video its great. Jenna said it’s really cute. Kevin said some of the comments are like the one guy really looks like Quinn and Quinn voice fits him. Kevin said he agrees, they look like they could be relegated. Great work and big fan.

Jenna said thanks for that talk and thanks for listening. That was the Substitute and we hope you will come back next week to recap Furt. Kevin said oh Furt and then asked do you remember anything from Furt. Jenna said I think this when they get married. Kevin said wait Jenna you were a pescatarian up until Furt. Jenna said Kevin what a memory and then I wasn’t anymore. They had spicy chicken sandwiches from Wendy’s. Her first meal back, what a meal. Kevin said for Furt they will be talking about spicy chicken sandwiches, marriage, Bruno Mars, and Tequila shots. Jenna said oh Romy. Get ready.

Come back next week.

[maddiebiscuits]

also some personal notes from my time that i can remember:

if you see kids doing emo/scene throwback fits if you see cropped tops or high-waisted pants/shorts/skirts throw it out - that shit was NOT in style in the 00s. shirts were tightly fitted/silhouetted and LONG - you wore your bottoms low on the hips to show your square stud belt OR you wore your bottoms at regular height, pulled the shirt over it past your hips and then actually just wore your belt over your hips as an accessory. unique belt buckles optional.

vans and converse, only boots if you were emo-goth/mall goth or had a special fit for them, hoodies also had to be snug on the frame, zip-up, usually black, patterned. no wings on the eyeliner just raccoon eyes or underlined, short black nails (cheap polish, chipped, DIY), no lipstick, no blush, no one really knew about/no one really had makeup tutorials yet en masse like we do now so no proper foundation/concealer/contouring knowledge, faces were pretty pale and flat.

no wide/thin diamond fishnets, only small or chunky, you can layer them over other tights if you want. elbow-length or to the wrist fingerless gloves they HAVE to be fingerless oh my god. you can get asymmetrical with your accesories, like only one glove, etc., but any stockings/tights should be on both legs even if the patterns are different. leggings weren’t really a thing yet. jeans are ball-crushing skinny, the end.

horizontal stripes or checker pattern, lace sometimes popular with girls especially as the lace top/bottom cami became popular. generally you wore patterns on the feet/hands/lower leg/arms but kept the center of the body a solid colour (black, only interrupted by design on the shirt). common to layer shirts - black tee over a striped or checked long sleeve, or a single colour. several shirts were actually made in this style so you didn’t have to layer and bake.

hair with blonde red green blue or purple highlights (dark not bright or neon which was scene, as was the striped dye pattern, rarely multi-colour highlights). hair short, rarely past the shoulder, worn DOWN and in front of the face. it was common to have the bangs very long and contain the highlight, and the back very short and you would spike up the back. layered hair was common at this time too, everything was sort of poofy and fluffy on white kids because of this layering and then you used a flat iron to straighten the long bangs, or the whole head to get this weird shaggy, choppy look. this escalated IMMENSELY with scene hair later. SOMETIMES girls would have longer hair and do something quirky, like loose pigtails, but i rarely saw this and never did it.

wristbands and bracelets!! necklaces fine, chokers good, but not the 90s lace ones that came back, they were gone in the 00s. You could get spiked, studded or ornamental ones anywhere - walmart, claires, etc. Aside from black only offsetting colours were white, dark red/green/blue/purple, pink sometimes and then all the time in the later 00s when scene hit its big stride. belt chain! skull motifs popular. neckties you just wear like a necklace also popular. Safety pins were another motif idk why.

hood up, beanie or - yes - a fuckin trilby, the fake fedora trend started in the 00s and then morphed in the late 00s/early 2010s, but usually no hats or hair pieces until scene brought in bows clips and headbands. band shirt, or a logo or image of a Thing popular in the culture - nightmare before christmas/tim burton stuff VERY VERY popular in this era! invader zim/hello kitty and early internet memery/anime/video games was a bit more scene-y but not uncommon either on the more emo fashion.

eyebrow/lip/tongue piercing popular, many ear piercings, septums got popular more in the very late 00s/2010s. must pose bent foward or in such a way as to sort of appear dainty/frail and accentuate LENGTH. 00s emo fits emphasized long torsos arms and legs, neutral or mopey expressions.

for extra dress up girls would experiment with frillier skirts, tutu-esque sometimes, and tops that looked like corsets weren’t uncommon, which you’d sometimes see more often with the mall goth/emo goth style. again with the t-shirts you would usually wear them over a contrasting tee or long sleeved shirt. you didn’t really show a lot of skin dressing like this except in the summer when you wore shirts and ditched layering shorts because it was hot out. Wearing a lower-cut shirt wasn’t usually the style band/logo shirts were made in, and would sometimes mess up layering. when the lace top camis came in as this fashion had an older wearing group you’d get more cleavagey shirts and then the lace pop from the cami under underneath.

It wasn’t available to me in Canada at the time, but I saw american kids on forums always visit Hot Topic in its golden era. bear in mind though that the popular tripp pants weren’t very emo-adjacent because emo clothes, despite the layering, are very snug-fitting and tight, and tripp pants are baggy, so it was a more emo-goth, mall goth sort look.

actually piggybacking off last RT i probably dressed more emo-punk or emo-goth in highschool and phased out by the time i graduated, basically if Ebony Darkness Dementia Raven Way wore it i wish i had it because her character was a time capsule of what that sort of look was - too done up and edgier than emo, too early for scene

my hair was a popular emo bang/back spikes though, sometimes with highlights. i had this awful choker from friggin Claire’s of all places that had an iron cross on it that i had no CLUE what it meant because i was 15 and after deeper history lessons on WW1/WW2 i threw it out asap and replaced it with a spiked choker LMAO

studded bracelets also very popular at that time, had tons, striped socks/stockings, black boots and converse, I had cute mary jane shoes with cat faces on them, many black hoodies and t-shirts, a few black skirts, one black lace corset, black skinny jeans but never owned any tripp pants. heavy eyeliner, never wore black lipstick though because i had thin white girl lips and i didn’t know how to overline so wearing lipstick drew attention to them :c

it was really fun to participate in a fashion fad as a kid ngl, feels very In The Moment upon reflection. i briefly experimented with rockabilly fashion after college when that got popular but then i gave up. when you turn 30 and you’re not skinny like you used to be and have to mind your finances you can’t really stick to a sense of style even if you’re thrifty because your size, time, money and basic comfort is against you, but i got to do it as a kid so i’m pretty happy! :D

[a-pretty-nerd]

Watching Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles makes me wanna be a kid again.

It makes me want to go back in time and look at my 13yr old self and say, "You do what makes you happy! You hear me? Don't listen to anyone! ESPECIALLY your mother! Cringe isn't real and never was! Shave half your head! Wear boy's clothes! The heavy eyeshadow looks great! Be the little menace you were born to be!"

As someone in their early twenties, rottmnt has helped me realize exactly how precious those years in your life are. And how much I wasted them by trying to act more mature than I was. By allowing the people around me to pressure me into behaving like a mini-adult when I was only 16. I wish I would have let myself be a kid and enjoy the things I didn't let myself enjoy.

I was 13 when tmnt 2012 aired and I really liked it. I tried to express my interest, but apart of me felt embarrassed. I was under the impression that I was "too old" for these kinds of cartoons. (Yes because Black Butler was so much better? Recovering emo kid.) The 2010s were a dark time, my children. You see, I was a girl. And girls my age weren't supposed to like immature boy shows like that. Icky! So my love for tmnt remained hidden for many year.

UNTIL rottmnt graces my silly little screen. Idk if you know this about me, but 2D animation will ALWAYS win over 3D in my opinion and OH MY BANANA PANCAKES was I head over heels for the rottmnt art style. It takes so much influence from the cartoons I grew up with but has such a fresh and interesting take on an old model like tmnt. I'll rewatch the show and notice something new in the animation everytime. Maybe a new face animation I didn't catch before, or a reference, or a funny little bit happening in the background. I'm sure I'm insufferable to watch it with.

It's the stories that get me everytime. The characters are so well written and the acting is PEAK. You really get the sense that people ENJOYED working on this show in every department. And on top of that, it all makes me feel like rottmnt has finally embraced something I feel has been missing from tmnt for a while now. Childhood whimsy.

Yes, the original comics are dark, yes I would watch the hell out of a more adult/mature Muntant Ninja Turtle show, BUT TMNT is about four TEENAGERS fucking around and finding out! Let the children act like children! Looking back at the older adaptations has really made me realize how serious they were trying to be. AND FOR WHAT? WHY MR. BAY!? WHY DOES THE 17YR OLD TURTLE NEED A TATTOO?? WHY!"

I digress. Watching rottmnt at the tender age of 23 has made me realize that not only are they actual children, but they're showing a whole bunch of real life kids what being a kid looks like. Being a kid looks like the lair games, where sibling compete in fun activities, or bicker over pizza toppings. Being a kid looks like hyperfixating on a video game. It looks like having a fun snow day with friends. Like learning how to communicate without putting anyone out. Like learning responsibility in a way that doesn't look like taking care of your alcoholic parent- I MEAN SAVING THE PLANET FFROM THE KRANGGG!!!

Needless to say, this silly little show has helped me heal a part of my inner kid I didnt even realize was even broken. It helped me process my childhood from a new angle, and finally mourn the loss of a proper childhood. Watching the show makes me feel like I've reclaimed all the "cringe" things I didn't let myself have as a kid. And the best part is, I'm not alone.

-Cowabummer ✌

[takaraphoenix]

Ship game!! What about Nico and Will?? It’s pretty popular, but I don’t think I’ve seen you write much of it…

That's an interesting one in that I have vocalized my reasons for disliking it way back when it first became popular but instead of just linking that, it has been years so I think it's time for an updated version.

Firstly: This post is gonna be properly tagged and not crosstagged so if any shipper comes across it and feels the need to bitch about it, just don't; your lack of curating your own tumblr experience is not my problem! ;D

Now, there are three key factors that play into my dislike of this ship: How it was written, what it represents, how the fandom around it acts.

1. It’s rushed and uncomfortable

In BoO, it was incredibly rushed. They had literally five sentences of interactions before they walked into the literal sunset together. Five. It was just entirely born from Riordan's Noah's Ark Complex, where he just can't let people be single. The series was ending and he needed Nico to have an endgame so he rushed into some random romance with zero build-up.

The way their interactions went down was also severely uncomfortable for me. Will was acting so offended by Nico not wanting to go to camp and be friends in an entitled way that he had no right to be, he downright guilt-tripped Nico about how he had wanted to be friends. Nico has been just so severely traumatized at such a young age and his coping mechanism, as unhealthy as it was, was to run away and hide. Will acted like Nico not wanting to form attachments to people who could potentially leave him again was somehow just an Edgy Emo Decision and not a direct reaction to his trauma. His entire approach to Nico was basically all these hippie posts of "Don't have depression!! Just go out into the sun and stop being depressed!", which is already a bad take with non-medical people but he's supposed to be a doctor (and let's not get into the shadiness of him technically being Nico's doctor).

There is also an inherent "I can fix him" angle to this ship and to me, only few ship dynamics are more uncomfortable than that. If you want to fundamentally change a person's behavior and personality, you... don't actually want to be with this person.

Now, here's where my points overlap, because the following parts of their writing that bothers me also stand for what this ship fundamentally represents.

2. Solangelo is a queer ship written by and for straights

I'm a queer woman and as a queer woman, I want queer wish-fulfillment, not what straights want out of queerness. I'm kind of tired of that, I've been sitting through it for enough decades now. That's, of course, not to say that no straight writer can give proper queer representation, but far too often do straight writers - even the most well-meaning ones - project straight desires of queerness into their queer representation.

Let me explain that closer through this ship.

Nico's been in love with Percy for years and I'm going to do my best to not hijack this post with some Percico agenda; that's not what this his about, this isn't some "my ship is better than your ship" ship-war nonsense. It's simply a canonical fact that Nico has had romantic feelings for another character for years.

A character who, in this medium, is heterosexual. And if you're queer, you've been there. In love with your straight best friend. It's a cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason.

We have also all been well-meaningly rejected by said straight friend.

And here's the straight desires for you: The queer person who was in love with a straight person just immediately stops having those feelings and will then as quickly as possible fall in love with the next queer person they meet to be happy and no longer uncomfortably in love with a straight person, because that thought makes the straights uncomfortable.

Queer wish-fulfillment would be for Percy to return those feelings, for the queer character to get his first love, to not be rejected. That thing queer teens always dreamed about for themselves.

Aside from the wish-fulfillment angle, the pacing is another problem. Let me repeat, Nico was in love for years. But a five sentence conversation with Will once causes a crush on Will and we see him physically turn away from Percy and toward Will just immediately to rebound and actually fall out of love with Percy and in love with Will. Anyone who's ever been unlucky in love will attest to just how unrealistic and ridiculous the pacing here is.

It's also straight queerness in another respect; Nico has been the first ever queer character we meet in that world. He loves a straight guy - and to get over that, we introduce the second queer character. Because heaven forbid there are multiple queers to pick from. No, in straight-written queer romances, there is always that one main queer and then they introduce a second one and the two just immediately hit it off and develop a romance like all a queer person needs to form attraction to someone is the confirmation that the other person shares your sexuality.

Also the notable gay guy on gay guy ship here, whereas the more queer-wish-fulfillment option would have also included more nuance to the queer experience, because Percy doesn't have to be heterosexual just because he has only been with girls so far. It's a very old-fashioned - think 90s and early 2000s - kind of straight-written queerness that there are only exactly two homosexuals and that those two homosexuals then pair up.

And, listen, I'm not immune to these outdated straight-written queers entirely, I have many such ships that I grew up with that I am still fond of because they were groundbreaking at that time and they weren't outdated yet back when they happened in said 90s and early 2000s. I am however a grown woman now and just like I have grown, so has queer rep so I am not as easily baited into falling onto my knees in gratitude for canon rep. You have to go with the times. And this ship, by all that is given to us, is just entirely outdated straight-written rep.

Which, I mention earlier that even straight-written rep can be good. If the author tries. Riordan doesn't really try though; he does the bare minimum when he writes any of his rep - and there have been many, many more qualified voices being very vocal about his depiction of people of color and, as a woman, I've been vocal about his depiction of women. I don't want to derail this post with all of that, but I do think that it bears mentioning that Riordan doing rep but only doing a bare minimum and not putting in the necessary work to deepen the representation he wants to give is a repeating pattern that has been pointed out many times by now.

(I’d also like to point out that no, it is not just the ship and not just the listed instances that make it straight-written rep for straights. It’s Nico’s entire queer arc, starting with his forced coming out. A severely traumatizing event that is completely brushed over because the straight author doesn’t understand the impact this has on queer people. Not to mention the framework; Nico’s coming out isn’t Nico’s story, it happens in Jason’s POV, it is given to us through the POV of the straight bystander who gets to be Best Ally by assuring Nico that being gay is okay. This kind of coming out is not a queer wish-fulfillment, it’s a straight wish-fulfillment of getting to be the straight savior, the ally to show the gay the light of acceptance. And, additional to the ridiculous pacing of how fast Nico gets over his love for Percy, Nico also gets over years of internalized homophobia just because of, I don’t know, Jason’s few encouraging words and the fact that Will paid attention to him? For a gay kid who was in the closet all his life, the nonchalant way in which he publicly confessed his crush to Percy at the end made absolutely no sense and was written as basically a joke, finished off with Nico literally high-fiving Percy’s girlfriend despite those two never having seen eye to eye before but this is straight wish-fulfillment so all straights are Super Allies, because that’s the way straights want to see themselves, even though Annabeth has shown before just how jealous she can be and she most definitely wouldn’t go around high-fiving people who confess to her boyfriend. Nothing about Nico’s queer arc in HoO felt natural or queer or satisfying.)

Sure, Solangelo on a surface level is big because it's a canon queer couple in a YA book-series and kudos for that and yay for the kids who get to grow up seeing queers in YA books, but I actually do think that kids growing up with books written in the 2010s shouldn't grow up with 1990s levels of representation, because the 2010s overall are actually at a far more nuanced and better level of representation when it comes to queerness. And I do reserve the right to quit on too straight-written and too outdated queer rep in a landscape where I can get more satisfying representation elsewhere; we don’t live in times anymore where you necessarily have to love every bit of rep because it’s the only one you get.

Now that we've gone through my first two gripes, let's wrap this up with the final point, because it also directly ties into this.

3. The new wave of antis hiding behind this ship

A huge part of the fandom is so busy kissing Riordan's ass solely for giving them queer rep at all they think that both the author and the ship are beyond flawless and that kind of attitude is not good. Just because an author includes rep doesn't make either perfect. Absolutely no one is beyond critique - especially not when said critique comes from the very people the author is representing. And even beyond any "valid" critique on the ship, quite frankly, someone should also be allowed to just not like it, without any reasons given at all.

But there is a certain... protective obsessiveness about this ship that doesn't allow a not liking. Very similar to how PJO bore this mindset around Perc/abeth already. It's okay to have OTPs, even OTPs that you have a blindspot for and just don't want to see any flaws in. It is however not okay to then go around attacking people who don't like the thing and mind their own business.

Solangelo's bred a new generation of antis in this fandom. And, particularly with the fact that this post too receives an "anti" tag, I feel like there needs to be a clarification (because tumblr likes to forget what actually makes an anti). Not liking something doesn't make you an anti, venting in properly tagged posts doesn't either; it's the people who harass others, who seek out the content they dislike to then complain that it even exists and who actively try to make others stop creating for it - those are antis.

And with Solangelo's popularity, there was a high rise in Percico antis, who sought it out, were unnecessarily nasty about it, harrassed creators and tried to enforce some kind of "Solangelo supremacy" that won't allow other ships for the characters.

I've been in fandom long enough to be perfectly aware that not all Solangelo shippers count into this category and that there are completely normal and nice Solangelo shippers, but this is a Venn diagram where the overlap between Solangelo shippers and antis is too large to not widely associate the nasty people with the ship itself. (I've been there myself, shipping the very ship behind which a fandom's antis all hid. The second-hand embarrassment of having these people give the ship a bad name is horrendous and I do feel bad for all the normal Solangelo shippers.)

The more often I encountered these people, who made Percico bad (sometimes in wildly ridiculous manners that bent and deliberately misinterpreted canon) and who in the same breath praised Solangelo high, the more tired I grew of that ship. It's a simple game of association, really. You see that linked to the gross and nasty behavior and you start associating the ship itself with that gross and nasty behavior - and with all the things I said before that already weighed into my dislike of the ship, this just was the final tipping point, really.

And that's it. That sums up why I dislike Solangelo. It was hastily rushed, uncomfortable in its execution, it is outdated rep that very much feels as straight-written as it factually is and it does not feel aimed at me as a queer person but rather at the straight audience and it has gathered a cult following of quite uncomfortable people who on their own would be reason enough to avoid it so you can avoid them.

Send me a ship and I will explain why I do or don't ship it

[re-bee-key]

There's not enough love for the 2005-2010 years.

So many so called 90s kids were actually just small kids in the 90s and were in their formaitve teenage years in the early 2000s. I know, because I was born in 91.

I wanna see more love for the emo music and cheesy teen comedy movies and crystal witchy stuff in all the tv shows and the start of myspace and youtube and musicals and fantasy in everything and jelly bracelets and big bangs and scene clothes and hanging out at walmart and california seeming like the coolest place ever.

Do you know what I mean? Sometimes it feels like people want to forget 2005-20010 existed. They dont want to feel nostalgic for it. Theyd rather think of when they were even younger, in the 90s.

I wonder why?