#i also like morally grey tim but really

[rhilumi]

I'm just saying: Tim had NEVER been able to let people die. He sees people dying and he just. Has To act no matter who they are or what's causing it.

"Not until I say you are" yeah jesus christ dude how many people have you forcefully dragged back from the dead.

[necrotic-nephilim]

au for the ask game: omegaverse where omega dick grooms ealry-presented alpha tim in "prodigal son"

dick is going through one of the worst periods of his life after breaking up his wedding with kory (maybe she, like a tamaran, couldn't understand the secondary gender of humans and during the breakup said something bad about dick as an omega) and then tim appears with stars in his eyes and believes that dick is the best human being on earth.

bonus points if the society has progressed enough and mating with children is strictly prohibited, even if they present early.

for the ask game!

gdfdsfdgbf anon i'm kissing you on the mouth. this is my favorite flavor of Omegaverse, especially for DickTim. i'm a proud believer in the dominant omega!Dick/submissive alpha!Tim propaganda. also a big fan of how terrible Dick's life is during Batman: Prodigal. and i just. man i love the Omegaverse concepts of alien characters like Kory not understanding secondary gender and it causing rifts.

what's fun about the Prodigal era is just how isolated Tim and Dick are during it. Bruce is off.. being fucking Bruce, and Alfred is also away, so it's really just Dick and Tim for a bit. they've always worked with each other and have a repertoire, but a lot of the conversations they have about each other's pasts are happening for the first time. so it's such a fun time for Tim to present as an alpha. and of course, his hero worship for Dick (especially after having to deal with Jean-Paul) makes it so *easily* for Dick to just. slip his fingers into. Dick's isolated from the Titans, he's lost Kory, he's on the rocks with Bruce, and so there's just something so nice about this kid who still holds utter faith in him. he doesn't see any of the societal stereotypes about omegas in Dick, he just sees Dick. and then, he presents and he trusts *Dick* with that information, lets Dick guide him through the most awkward parts of presenting. how can Dick not want to take advantage of that? a young, fresh alpha who he's currently in charge of mentoring, with no one to stop Dick or notice what he's doing.

it's still tricky, of course. Dick not only has to make sure he's not breaking the law, but he also has to keep Tim from noticing, immediately. Tim's hero worship crush is the most obvious thing about him, but that doesn't mean Dick can jump on him. it needs careful time and planning. Bruce might not be around, but Tim still has his dad who could notice the scent of an omega on Tim. so instead of marking Tim, Dick starts marking himself with Tim's scent. it starts small, using the same blanket Tim has used in the Batcave, grabbing a couple of Tim's oversized hoodies and wearing them. things with plausible enough deniability, but enough that Tim starts to subconsciously associate his scent with Dick. when he can't smell himself on Dick he feels like something is wrong. and when he's finally brave enough to bring it up to Dick, Dick is able to spin it on Tim. make it seem like Tim is the one coming onto Dick, assuming things. Dick plays it cool, pretending to be shocked by the idea of it. he gently explains to Tim what he could be implying about their relationship and Tim is *mortified*, apologizing and tripping over himself to try and fix it. but Dick just calms him down, promises Tim he isn't mad bc hey, Tim is a fresh alpha and he presented so *young*, it's difficult to navigate.

so you have Dick offering to help navigate this with Tim and using it to get closer and closer to Tim. grooming him into the type of alpha that Dick wants in a relationship. anytime there's behavior in Tim that Dick doesn't like, Dick can pretty easily redirect by dropping comments about how Tim just "can't help" acting like this because of his alpha nature, which instantly makes Tim scramble to fix it. Dick likes Tim for who he is, this cute, sweet kid who's such a handsome little alpha. but he's rough around the edges and Dick puts it on himself to smooth those edges over. he's playing the long game with this, and he doesn't mind waiting it out. and Tim can't complain when Dick pushes the boundaries, making him uncomfortable, because he doesn't want Dick to think he's a *pervert* for thinking that way. it's one big mind game.

i do think, Dick would cave and sleep with Tim before Tim's an adult. he's smart enough not to mate Tim, and he's definitely smart enough not to sleep with Tim enough for Bruce, a beta, to notice what's going on. but when some sort of sex pollen incident triggers a simultaneous heat and rut for Dick and Tim respectively, it's the most convenient in that Dick needs. Dick acts like they're doing this out of necessity, that he's giving in even though he doesn't want to, just because of how Tim's acting under the aphrodisiac. it gives him complete control over the sex because Tim is so desperate to not give in to his "alpha ways" and hurt Dick by being violent or animalistic. Dick gets to pin Tim down, possibly even tie him down "for his own safety" and ride him until Tim is a crying mess under Dick. after the first time, if Dick orchestrates more scenarios where they end up in "fuck or die" situations well, it's not like anyone's noticing. at the height, he even manages to have sex with Tim without that sort of pretense, he just has to act like he can tell how needy Tim is and sigh, pretending he's the one doing Tim a favor "just this once" by letting Tim fuck him.

in the end, it's a long con that pays off. it takes until Battle for the Cowl but Tim's a legal adult. and Dick is Batman again, which really does feel like everything coming full circle. part of the reason Dick makes Damian Robin is to remove the pretense of Tim and Dick being sidekick and mentor. it makes it easier for Dick to insist he really does see Tim as a full adult (even if he doesn't, deep down. Tim is still a fresh teenager, just because it's legal doesn't make it any less morally questionable) and something more than Robin. Dick makes a comment about them being mates so offhandedly it makes Tim stop in his tracks. Tim, who's about to go on his Red Robin arc and isolate himself, now has a chance at being mates with his hero. a chance to smooth over their differences and be actual equal partners. of course, Tim jumps on it. maybe deep down, after they mate and Dick is all too pleased with himself, it clicks for Tim that this was all a set-up. he puts the pieces together while they're cuddling in bed. he knows deep down that Dick will never *actually* see him as an equal. but, the deed is done and if Tim is going to give himself over to anyone, of course it's going to be Dick Grayson.

[roseworth]

what direction do you think they should have gone in with jason? as in where should he be now in terms of people and what he's doing

i think winick had it exactly right green arrow #69-72 and batman & robin #23-25. he was a villain but he had a Method and a Purpose. and usually that purpose was just to fuck with batman. i loooove it when hes a villain and hes very clearly doing bad things, but hes not just indiscriminately killing people. hes doing it for a reason, hes still doing the same thing he was doing in utrh by controlling the drug trade, and even when hes doing the right thing hes being an asshole about it

i especially love the ga issues because jason doesnt even talk to batman but bruce KNOWS what hes doing and he knows its about him. i love the bruce & jason post-utrh dynamic where they've both pretty much said everything they have to say and neither of them is changing their position, so now jason is just starting fires to get attention. "ok bruce you dont want to talk to me? thats fine. ill just follow you to star city then psychologically torture a teenage girl then blow her up in front of you" icon! i forgive him! i think its so fun when red hood is a member of batman's rogues gallery and bruce feels bad every time he fights him but also he kinda cant stand him since he knows jason is only doing it to mess with him and its working. but also jason is a Greater Good person so he DOES end up working with the bats sometimes just because theyre also working on the good side

anyways the ideal bruce & jason dynamic to me is "the love was there and it made everything so much worse" because jason is doing everything for bruces attention because he loves him and wants him to care about him but hes not willing to budge on his own morals and neither is bruce. and bruce loves jason so he doesnt want to arrest him or put him in danger but also hes killing people and doing terrible things and bruce is batman so he feels obligated to. yk. stop him. and as much as they both love each other they do not like each other at all

in my mind jason doesnt really care about any of the other bats besides dick & babs just because he knew them before he died so hes willing to hang out with them but they Do Not want to see him. like in brothers in blood when jason goes hiiiii dick <3 lets hang out <3333 and dick is constantly suppressing the cain instinct. he never really talks to babs pre52 i think theyre interactions would be very similar in that jason goes hey babs ur so cool <33 and she says jason get the fuck away from me or im activating the bomb in your helmet <3

but also with steph even though he didnt know her pre-death,, i think he would like her. i can imagine him doing something very similar to what he did with mia, basically finding her and going "quit your vigilante career. join my emo band" but i think she would end up being a lot more receptive to it than mia was ! like im thinking batgirl 2009 era steph so she would not be on board with the idea of joining him since things were going well with team batgirl, but i also think that any interaction between the two of them in that era would go well and end with them getting along :)

as for everyone else. i dont think he would care about any of them. theyre just kinda collateral damage in his war with bruce. like he gets involved with them sometimes just because of their proximity to bruce, or like i said earlier that he works with them sometimes because he cares about the greater good so is willing to help them when necessary. also honorable mention to aoifa's headcanon that jason doesnt actually know tims name because he just does not care. thats canon to me

so yeah in conclusion: he should be a morally grey villain that does what he does either for the greater good, or to fuck with batman, or both. and he has complicated relationships with all of them bc he likes bruce dick and babs but also kinda hates all of them and they like but also hate him too. and the rest of them he doesn't really give a shit about

[erinwantstowrite]

on the catwoman au who will be the person closest to peter ? will it still be damian ?

the dynamics are different in the Catwoman au because Peter is at the full force of his anger and hater phase, has never met the Avengers, and is extremely reckless, rude, etc. he's in the stage of Spider-Man's grief before he fully settles into Spider-Man, still torn up about Ben and the other people he's lost. (this would be about a year after he ran away).

He's Catwoman's apprentice, and she is very back and forth about her alliances- a free spirit, if you will. It leads to this sort of... stasis? Like, he still helps people, but he's also very morally grey at the moment about HOW to stop crime, who to steal from, etc. He isn't friends with the Bats at first and actually makes it a point to be rude and let them know he dislikes them, but he also doesn't try to hurt them or anything. He also isn't friends with the villains/rogues of Gotham, and is acquaintances with then at best.

I still have to work out the timeline for Catwoman AU, but atm I'm fairly sure they meet Spider-Man first, after he's already been taken in by Selina. He has a back and forth with Dami, who is in the middle of his character development, and they often have sibling fights before they even know they're siblings. (Still debating on if Bruce got lost in the timestream or not, because technically, Bruce should be lost/gone right then. Which means Tim is in Europe, Dick is Batman, etc. And I kind of don't want to write that, so it'd be an au... but it's also very important to their stories....)

It isn't until Peter starts going to school and meets Damian (and Maps, she's included in this au) that they even find out what Peter looks like outside of Spider-Man (considering that Selina knows their identities, the dynamic is strange here again). It takes a LOT of warming up to each other, far more than in LoF. Eventually, Dami and Peter are going to have the friendshio they have in LoF, and Maps is like a little sister to Peter, etc.

But they won't know that Peter is from an alternate dimension- not even Cat really knows where he came from

[artstaeus3600]

You know idk if it's just the way I was raised or my weird sense of justice but I love when Jason or Tim or really any of the bat kids don't forgive Batman, and I really absolutely love the way Jazz is written in Blood on the Crown by SkylarkSky, but that might just be because I'm okay with murder for you loved ones :p

But we need more Jazz x Jason being murder buddies and sure Jazz may have ended up with mad science vibes but really that's just how she was raised, she probably also helps Jason with therapy, no she doesn't do the therapy but she helps with his smoking or his drinking problems, she gets really disappointed and Jason caves immediately.

Like more batman's moral code was never going to hold up with Jason when to Jason he had justifiable reasons why he killed (not saying every murders okay just some) and Jazz would probably agree she's probably seen all the victims of the jokers just wandering around or any of the rogues for that matter (I like to think shes a little bit of a medium because of her being liminal)

We need more morally grey characters anyway...

This probably just sounds like a rant so sorry bout that, here's the fic I mentioned!

[xxchumanixx]

Nothing at all pt.2? When they get caught ???

Nothing at all pt. 2

Tim Bradford x reader

Warnings/Tags: fluff, angst, secret relationship Word count: 1.804 Authors note: Hello love, here it is: part 2! I'd like to mention beforehand that I'm not homophobic, nor anything close to it (just feeling like I should mention it, before someone tries to call me out for whatever they might interpret). I'm not entirely happy with how it turned out, but I'll maybe add a part 3. Also, it's not entirely proof read yet (it's almost 2 am in Germany and I'm sooo tired right now) Anyways, I'm still loving the idea behind this. Thanks for liking it as well! Read part one here! Enjoy!

It was easy, falling for Tim Bradford.

Hiding, that was the real quest.

It hadn't been long, since you and Tim had become a couple. What once was a way to blow off some steam, having been ignited when you drank a little too much, became more somewhere along the way.

Avoiding Lucy's hawk like eyes and questions became harder the more time passed, though.

She was true to her word, snooping and eavesdropping wherever she could. It wasn't long until you were no rookie anymore, but it seemed to get harder to hide the more time passed.

The worst one though, was Sergeant Grey.

Since you and Tim had become a couple, there happened a few things caused by you and Tim not being a hundred percent on board during calls.

Though it wasn't anything too serious, Grey became suspicious.

Which was bad.

You would have been doomed, if he found out before you ranked up. So you had to lie, stirring his assumptions and suspicions somewhere else - to you being lesbian and Tims best friend.

Yeah, you weren't proud of that lie, especially considering that it could have backfired so hard, you could have not only gotten fired, but declared morally reprehensible either.

But you had said these words faster than your brain could have caught up, Tims eyes widening so much, they could have competed with plates.

And Grey had apologized for snooping in your private life, which made it even worse. You felt so guilty, that you had a very hard time even looking at him during roll call.

You just hoped things wouldn't get out of hand too much, before you could tell him the truth.

Counting the days, you became more impatient the closer you got to your exams. Which meant that you became more reckless as well.

It was hard enough with Lucy hiding behind every corner, you didn't need to risk everything by giving into your desires now, so close to the finish line.

Yeah, so much for that...

The way she shouted in triumph when she then finally caught you red handed, would haunt you in your dreams, you were sure of that.

She startled you so hard, that you headbutted Tim, causing him to jump back, holding his nose, as he glared at his rookie.

She had caught you making out, hiding behind the police station like teenagers in high-school.

You hadn't seen Tim during the day, his shift matching yours, but nothing had led to you running into each other. It had been a long day, so you were more than excited to see him.

And as his tongue plunged into your mouth, his fingers digging into your hips in the darkness, as yours brushed through his hair, she suddenly stood beside you.

God damn it.

Biting your lip you tried to hide in the shadows, face buried in your hands, as you silently died of shame.

But you felt relieved somehow, too.

At least she wouldn't stalk you and Tim anymore.

"What the fuck are you doing here?" Tim snapped at Lucy, trying not to lose his cool entirely and let her fall through immediately, even though she made it really hard for him.

Her brows furrowed, as she realized that she not only had upset him, but she had made him angry as well.

Very angry.

Before she could have responded, he continued on. "Now you have what you wanted - are you happy now?" He yelled at her and you were grateful for the parking lot being otherwise empty at this time.

She swallowed, averting her gaze as she fumbled with the hem of her jacket. All the joy she must have felt moments before, was gone now. She had gone too far, only to prove that she was right.

Normally, she wasn't like that. But the way Tim had treated her, doing his Tim-tests and all, she wanted a little revenge.

That, was too much though.

She knew that.

Swallowing, she looked back up. "I'm sorry." she apologized, biting her lip as it quivered treacherously. "It somehow got out of hand, I know that now. I shouldn't have pressed so much. I'm gonna go now, good night."

With that she turned, almost running towards her car.

Mouth agape you stared after her, as Tim shook his head, biting his cheek in anger. He hated it when people snooped around his private life, especially when it was at work and he was ranked higher than them.

She wasn't even supposed to be so interested in it.

It wasn't her business.

"Fuck." you breathed out, realizing that she now held the power to get you both fired. Tims eyes met yours in the dark, the street lamp the only source of light.

"I'm gonna talk to her." you told him, looking back at where Lucy stood moments ago. His brows rose, as he looked at you like you were out of your damn mind.

"Someday she would have eventually learned about us, anyways. She'll get over it, yes, but I don't want her to stay mad at us. And then there's that thing with Grey... If she tells him, we're doomed."

He sent you a pointed look, like he was trying to say the thing with Grey goes entirely on you.

Sighing, you nodded to yourself, before you fumbled for your keys. "I'll call you later, okay?" He only nodded, before he walked you to your car.

"Try and not be too mad at her. She's still your rookie." you reminded him, hoping to convince him not to let her fall through. He huffed, biting his cheek.

"I know."

____

Knocking at Lucy's door, you fumbled with the strap of your bag. Would she even open the door, if she saw it was you?

She did, because only a few second later the door opened, revealing her distraught face. She stepped aside wordlessly, letting you in.

Closing the door behind you, she walked towards the couch, plopping down on it. You followed her, setting your bag down as you took a seat beside her.

"Is he gonna fire me?" she asked, not looking at you, as her voice seemed distant. You shook your head, leaning back. "No, he won't." you assured her. "I wouldn't let him."

She huffed, fumbling with her fingers, elbows resting on her legs. "I thought it would be funny, but I haven't realized how much I invaded your privacy." she started to explain, looking down at her hands.

"All I wanted was to prove my theory right. I didn't consider the consequences. But when I saw you two, it felt like I just won a competition or something."

You chuckled despite the seriousness of the situation, causing her to look up at you.

"You have no clue how good it feels to finally have you knowing about it." you admitted, sending her a crooked smile. "It's like a weight being lifted off my shoulders. Grey was suspicious, as well. I might have told him that I'm lesbian."

Her eyes widened, as she laughed, shocked.

"You did what?" she shouted, covering her mouth with her hand. Nodding, you laughed as well, as she slid up on the couch, body turned towards you.

It was all so absurd.

"When we're ranked up, I'm gonna tell him the truth." you said, wiping at your tired eyes. "I feel so bad for lying to him. Tim was so shocked about it, that he almost slipped, almost telling Grey the truth."

She shook her head, before she looked down at her hands again. "I'm not gonna tell him, no worries." she assured you, looking back up. "After all you didn't say anything about me and John, either. That doesn't mean, that I understand why you didn't trust me enough to tell me, though."

You felt bad, knowing that she was right.

"I was scared." you admitted, looking down. "It wasn't that I didn't trust you, it was just that he is your TO, and my superior officer as well. I couldn't risk anything - even though I seemed to be rather dumb today, making out with him in the parking lot."

She cocked a brow at you, silently agreeing.

"We all do dumb things." she then told you, scooting closer. "So, are you guys officially dating now?"

You snorted, swatting at her arm, causing her to laugh as well, before you started to explain everything.

____

"She won't say a thing."

Instead of calling Tim, you had driven to his place. He nodded, as he let you step inside. "Did she want something in return?" he questioned, closing the door behind you, as you took off your jacket, hanging it on the clothing rack.

"No." you gave back, shaking your head, as you stood in front of him. "She's my friend." He nodded slowly, clearly surprised.

Standing on your tiptoes, you leaned up to him, hands interlocking at his neck, pressing your lips against his. His hands found their way to your hips almost automatically, as he returned the kiss.

His lips were soft, moving slowly against your own, as he leaned down, so you wouldn't have to keep standing on your toes. His tongue brushed your lip and you let it in, continuing were you had left off.

One of his hands moved up, cupping your cheek as he tilted your head, deepening the kiss. You whimpered into his mouth, the desire taking over, as it suddenly knocked at the door right behind him, causing you to break apart.

Breathing heavily you looked at each other.

He seemed as clueless as you, clearly not expecting any visitors.

Still he opened the door, making you wish he'd just ignored it instead.

It was Grey and his wife Luna.

His mouth was as equally open as yours and Tims were, staring at each other in utter shock and confusion. Only Luna reacted differently, tilting her head, as she tried to make sense of the situation.

You were the first to close your mouth again, as realization sat in. Turning away from them, you silently fumed.

This couldn't be happening, right?

It had to be a bad joke.

"Sergeant, what are you doing here?" Tim inquired, as you bit on your thumb, trying to stay calm. They didn't see anything, right? Surely they wouldn't look through the windows up front, before knocking at the door.

Who were you kidding, honestly?

Grey needed a moment to respond, his wife beating him to it. "Didn't you say she's a lesbian?" she asked, clearly knowing that you weren't in fact a lesbian.

Turning back around, you saw Grey balling his hand to a fist, shaking it as he tried to keep his cool, clearly struggling.

"We don't have time for that now." he then said, clenching his jaw. "Someone broke into our house, we need somewhere safe to stay at for at least a couple hours."

Tims brows rose, nodding, as he let them in, his cheeks turning pinkish.

"Don't think I'll forget about this, though!" Grey added, eyes narrowing, as he angrily pointed at you two. You both nodded, mumbling a 'yes sir'.

You were officially doomed.

"Crap."

[brucewaynehater101]

I keep seeing you mention Bart as the "Scariest YJ member" and I would love your full analysis of why that is (aka I kind of want to explore writing evil/morally grey YJ but i'm not as familiar with canon stuff)

Thank you in advance and btw always love your stuff <33

I'll warn that I'm not as familiar with Bart's canon, but yes he does scare me. I'm struggling a bit to put it into words, but hopefully this is close.

The other YJ members are obviously powerful. Tim and Bart are the only ones to probably be underestimated by a new villain. Tim's completely human, and Bart keeps up a demeanor of being a bit of an air head.

However, Tim is extremely intelligent and willing to go to lengths that aren't considered morally okay. Every hero and villain knows that, though. He's Batman's protege. Everyone knows the Bats are a paranoid bunch, probably have contingency plans against you, can beat you in a fight, and that Tim is considered a genius. He's a threat, and if you underestimate him, he'll ensure you never do again.

Bart? He's insanely smart and has a photographic memory. He is an overall great guy, but he was raised in a virtual reality of the future. He had accelerated aging until his morphological age of 12, or the chronological age of two. He most likely doesn't have the same ties to social standards of acceptable behaviors and acceptable levels of violence. Before he was zapped into the past, he also was dealing with world ending perils. I'm not sure I'm explaining this right, but Bart is like a hidden danger. He's bubbly and kind personality wise, but he knows how to vibrate your skeleton out of your skin. He might be impulsive and he might talk a lot, but he can and will obliterate you.

He purposefully doesn't threaten people. Kon could stand there glaring to intimidate people. Cassie too. Tim would raise an eyebrow as he dares you to cross him. Bart? He doesn't really try to intimidate. He can, he could list the various ways he could utilize the speedforce to cause you excrutiating pain, but he doesn't. If he did intimidate someone in that way, he would immediately switch back to jabbering on about this or that with a happy demeanor. The others don't have as tight of a claim to a bubbly personality as Bart.

Bart is consistently overlooked and underestimated by the hero community and villains. His demeanor causes people to lower their guards and underestimate him (whether intentional or not). If Bart would go evil, I think he would act the exact same. He would babble on about positive and happy things as he kills people. He wouldn't be much different from how he currently is if he committed atrocities, and that's scary.

Hopefully, that kind of explains why he's so scary. He hides how insanely powerful he is (intentionally or not) and isn't taken as seriously. His team knows better, but everyone else? No.

[chaoticgalaxycats]

Okay so like I have THOUGHTS on Jay Merrick as a character. Like none of them are bad (completely) but I just need to emphasize that these feelings I have about him are very strongly held opinion and have been formed over the last about 3 years. To be honest when I see something I disagree with I just calmly move on and don't engage. 

Okay so there are 4 posts that summarize my entire opinion on this man and I am going to link them and After I add the links I'm going to do what I do best and ramble. 

Now for the ramble:

Start off with the important one Jay is not this innocent cinnamon roll who has done nothing wrong ever in his life. He is not pure and passive guy that everyone tends to portray him as. 

Jay has done many questionable things throughout the entire series. He has broken into Alex's apartment, he lied to several people on several occasions, he stalked several people, he posted Tim's medical records online, he has trespassed on several properties, ect. He has committed crimes and done questionable things. 

Despite the questionable things he's done, I still think Jay is overall a decent person. A great person? No, not really. He's morally gray. Like some positive aspects about Jay he is a sympathetic person and avoidant of violence. Like dude literally tried talking down a guy who was holding him at gun point. When Tim punched him in the parking lot he just took it didn't fight back. When Tim opens up to him about his past he comforts him.

He's not conflict avoidant by any means but he's not violent either. He is not at all innocent but he is also not a terrible person is my point I guess because like everyone in this series has at least done something questionable I feel.

Jay has sass and I love that he bites back. I also feel portraying him as awkward is accurate though cuz he is I mean look at his conversations and interviews with Tim and Jessica. He is awkward and a terrible liar. Like the sass and the awkwardness don't really contradict. I would love to see a portrayal that strikes this balance because I know so many people who are extremely sassy but also can't hold a social interaction for the life of them.

Jay is also a dumbass but I don't think anyone is arguing for his smarts I just can't make a post about Jay withour bullying him because it's funny. 

Honestly people can portray a character however the fuck they want tbh I just wanted to rant about my views on the characters because character analysis is my bread and butter.

[redhoodinternaldialectical]

My Jason Todd Rec List and Character Manifesto! (Version 3.0! Edited and updated first on 28/01/2024 and then again on 23/09/2024)

This is a fuckin mess my ghouls, but I got categories and I got opinions and who can stop me from typing em out? Certainly not @lazaruspiss who is the reason this thing got made!

The format is gonna be:

title and page numbers (No #s if I'm recommending the whole title IMPORTANT UPDATE: Each title will be a direct link to a free digital copy! Make sure you have a good adblocker and enjoy!) picture Summary and general notes My estimate of how unhinged he is in this portrayal What his morals are like; note this isn't about whether he's a protagonist or antagonist

Since cream rises to the top, let us start with:

The Creme de la Creme

The best of the best. The most fun, the most compelling, the most interesting looks into his character.

Seeing Red aka Green Arrow (2001) #69 - #72

This one really does have it all. Jason runs rings around both Batman and Green Arrow at the same time, all the while going after a goal neither of them ever truly figures out in large part because this story wasn't afraid to let Bruce be either wrong or lying about Jason's motives. It also wonderfully leverages the ways in which the Bats and the Arrows are really good foils for each other. I think I'm going to be turning over the ways these interactions went down for a long ass time. I've been really wanting to go page by page for a comparison between the way Jason treats Mia in this and the way Jason treats Tim in the Titans Tower showdown. Bottom line for this one: It's just so good!

Jason's sanity level: Six out of Ten hinges affixed. He's got a solid grip on things, is reasonably level headed, only problem is he might have completely forgotten how to interact with other human beings outside of combat. Love him for that.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Sympathetic Villain. Decidedly willing to mow down some "brain donors", and his goals are pretty morally grey, but he clearly still has a strong code of ethics.

Task Force Z

This whole comic one big love letter to Jason Todd. The author, Matthew Rosenberg, very deliberately takes time to showcase all the strengths and flaws of his character that make him so beloved. He's competent, he's mistrustful, he's determined, he's heroic and yet poses as the villain, he's human yet badass, and he holds his ground against the rest of the Bats while still clearly loving them. If I was ranking these comics purely by plot and pacing this would not be in creme de la creme territory, but it's a fantastic synopsis of what Jason is all about and if I could only give someone a single series in order to let them understand who Jason is (and I couldn't give them Under the Red Hood), I'd give them this.

Jason's sanity level: Eight out of Ten hinges affixed. He's pretty level headed, but at the same time he very clearly is way too casual about violence to be full hinges affixed - the PTSD is very apparent in him.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Antihero. His motives are understandable and firmly rooted in doing the right thing, but at the same time he is very willing to be ruthless and to kill when he feels it's the right decision. Balanced!

Pay as You Go aka Outsiders #44 - #46

Jason's role in this story is fairly small, but it's a wonderful bit of characterization for him. The way he approaches Nightwing to offer his help and the way Nightwing accepts that offer are fascinating and very deserving of your time!

Also there's gay sex and a prison breakout, like, what more could you want? Actually I suppose you could also want (what I'm pretty sure is) Roy's first time meeting Jason as the Red Hood and some really cute scenes of him and Lian, and guess what this story has got that too!

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Antihero. He's deliberately choosing to play the villain, but he's very willing to work with the Heroes and is going out of his way to exonerate an innocent man.

Batman (1940) #408 - #411 Jason's debut featuring Ma Gunn's School and his first ever outing as Robin fighting Two-Face

Just LOOK at this PRECIOUS BOY! I wanna pinch him on his cheeks and give him a handful of these bad boys

Jason has a ton of personality to him right out the gate. The first story has Ma Gunn as the villain and she's a lot of fun. The second story in here with Two-Face is also enlightening with regards to Jason's early personality, even if it's not quite as fun.

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Hero.

Under the Red Hood would be next if it wasn't already filed under ->

Foundational Texts

This is the shit that defines Jason as a character. Much is mutable in any given comic, but somehow, someway, all depictions of Jason are impacted and informed by these three stories. Enough has been said about all of them that I'm gonna keep it brief.

Red Hood: The Lost Days

(You may have heard a lot about Talia's role in this one: I would encourage you to read my analysis of her in this story and do your best to see her perspective in all this, she's a heck of a lot less villainous than people keep saying she is)

Jason's sanity level: Eight out of Ten hinges affixed.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Antihero. He kills some incredibly nasty people, while also doing some genuinely heroic shit. The only places where his morals deteriorate are in the presence of Batman and the Joker.

Under the Red Hood

Jason's sanity level: Four out of Ten hinges affixed. Remember how his morals deteriorated in the face of Batman and the Joker? Yeah, that's mostly because he's way, way too personally invested to think straight about them. He's strategic as fuck, but this is not a stable man's strategy for dealing with his issues.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Sympathetic Villain. He is a revenant, a vengeful juggernaut, and breaks an awful lot of eggs making this brilliant disaster of an omelette.

Batman (1940) #426 - #429 A Death in the Family

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Hero.

Joker becoming an ambassador to Iran plotlines count: One too many.

Solid Storylines

These ain't the vaulted heights, but not everything has to be the Sistine Chapel. They're solid, and if you're wanting more Jason I do certainly recommend them.

Countdown Presents: The Search for Ray Palmer and Countdown to Infinite Crisis (special note here: Countdown to Infinite Crisis must be read backwards, meaning you start with Issue #51 and then read down to Issue #1 and Countdown Presents isn't in chronological order and just... oh boy this storyline is a mess, but much of it is also quite good)

Jason is in what I like to call his Purposeless Depression Era during this. It's after his plans in Under the Red Hood fail and he's really just got no place to go, no place to be. He's keenly aware that on a cosmic level, he truly does not belong in this world anymore. He's supposed to be dead. There's something I find quite neat about this team up, with Donna Troy and Kyle Raynor and Bob, it's out of the ordinary for Jason, it's not bat related, and the ways he fits and doesn't fit with the other characters are just neat.

I especially recommend Gotham by Gaslight. The plot will be a lil hard to follow if you haven't read the others, but by the end of it Jason hopes to return to Steampunk Gotham instead of his own Gotham where he doesn't think he belongs, and the moments of him hoping to literally leave his universe behind are both sweet and sorrowful.

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed. He's just sad and lonely.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Hero. Even if only Donna is willing to tentatively try to see him that way.

Robin (1993) #177 and two pages of #182 and the front half of #183

Despite how much Jason is known for it, I think this is the only time we see him trying to run organized crime outside of Under the Red Hood (and uh debatably Battle for the Cowl). Short lil string of appearances, but critical for understanding how he's seen by Tim during this era if you care about that. Also I think this combined with Outsiders #44 - #46 (further down this list) it really cemented my understanding of Jason being strangely honest and forthright.

I think a major way other Bats fail to comprehend him is that they expect him to manipulate through lying, which just isn't his style. He doesn't lie about his motives; he doesn't obfuscate his tactics; he doesn't hide how he's feeling. Hell, he doesn't even try to lie his way out of prison! I could not tell you why this series of interactions gave me this impression but it is why I have such faith that when Jason says something, he probably just means it, even when characters like Dick or Tim assume otherwise.

Pity this was the lead up to Battle for the Cowl.

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed. He's even attempting to pick himself up out of his Purposeless Depression Era slump at the start.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Antihero.

Nightwing (1996) #118 - #122 aka Brothers in Blood aka the One Where Jason Gets Tentacles

COWARDS and KNAVES will tell you "the tentacles are so icky and everyone is so OOC" or whatever but again they are KNAVES and COWARDS because bitch this shit is GREAT

Jason: Wow! My bestest big brother killed someone who deserved it, so now I (the person he's rejecting only because I kill people who deserved it) have a real chance at being his family again!! :D Hooray! :) Dickie-Bird why don't you look happy to see me? :) Dickie-Bird I went out of my way to get us matching outfits and stalked your work and killed people in your name so it's nice and easy to make room for me in your life! :) :) :)

Dick:

Jason's sanity level: Two out of Ten hinges affixed. My mans is off his rocker and I adore him like this. Frankly, the entire storyline is unhinged, and it only feels appropriate that Jason is similarly bonkers in yonkers.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Villain. You can sympathize with him, and he is still trying to carry out justice, but I have to call it for straight villain when he's threatening to bomb a building full of innocent people.

Batman and Robin (2009) #23 - #25

I don't have much to say about this one. It's good. The above page is pretty much the highlight.

Wait actually I do have something to say and it is that I would like to lick Jason's abs, pls & thx, because the other highlight is that Winick clearly believes in redeeming Jason's value as a villain through sex appeal and it is working lmao

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed. Certifiably sane, he's passed all his psych exams!

Jason's moral compass bearing: Villain. He threatens to bomb a train station full of innocent people. While he does do that in service of freeing himself and Scarlet, thus making it not completely self centered, I still gotta put him firmly in Villain.

Nightwing (2016) 2021 Annual

In high contrast to the previous two in which Jason acts as a villain to Dick, this one has them working together and the tentative peace and cautious trust they've got going is interesting to me. Very reminiscent of his appearance in Outsiders!

Jason's sanity level: Nine out of Ten hinges affixed. He's quite chill, but there's just this little edge to him that says his relationship to violence is a little too casual a little too deep to really be fully hinged.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Edgy Hero.

Joker: The Man Who Stopped Laughing

With Jason's return to being an antagonist after a long stint in the Hero bin comes his return to being really fucking dangerous and whip smart! My boy quotes serious philosophy that gives him a real point to make against non lethal vigilantes and cops! I also think the part where he lets himself be arrested just... it says so much and all of it is wonderfully interesting and feels fitting for his character. He's kept deeply human, and just all of this portrayal gels together really well.

Originally I had this up in Creme De La Creme because really, even though Jason isn't the star of the show, and even with Gotham War having, er, Minorly Derailed Jason's role in things, and one or two inevitable scenes where ya just have to accept that he's not as trigger happy as he should be because DC is married to the Joker - even though all of that is true, this is still a phenomenal rendition of Jason. However, with all of those annoyances and with Task Force Z being written by the same author, I decided to put it down here and leave TFZ in it's place. Basically it's got an arguably better story-line than TFZ, but contains less Jason.

Also I like that he's friends with my favorite, Stephanie Brown :3 and he and Rose's chemistry is nice. On top of all that? It's a fun comic. Like, I generally hate the Joker, but I found myself enjoying watching the Joker do his Joker things in this one.

Jason's sanity level: Nine out of Ten hinges affixed. Level headed, calm, careful, really the only reason this isn't a 10/10 is cause he's obsessively focused, which like, honestly is pretty reasonable I think.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Clearly Justified Antihero. I almost put down Hero on this one, but ultimately he is just far enough over the line with how he treats the less threatening of the rogues like Killer Moth.

Your Mileage May Vary

These stories I can't recommend without major caveats or warnings, but I still think are worth mentioning.

Gotham War (It's such a mangled mess that I'm just gonna link a reading guide. The same website that all the others are on will get you to all the titles this guide lists)

So, the main problem here is that Gotham War spans five different titles and had three different authors whose renditions of Jason do not feel cohesive or even coherent. The funny thing is though, each rendition has real merits, and while it doesn't go far enough in condemning Bruce's horrifying treatment of Jason for many people's tastes, I have to point out that it's one of the only comics to condemn an instance of Bruce mistreating Jason at all. The fact that the other Robins come to his defense is a HUGE thing! The bar may be in Hell, but it did clear the bar!

Due to how disjointed it is, I'm going to very loosely separate Jason out into two versions of himself. Think of these not as hard lines, but more a spectrum he slides across depending on what author has him that issue.

Jason Primus combines the ideas in Jason's Under the Red Hood speech about controlling crime rather than trying to stomp it out with his more Heroic modern interpretation. He's a chill, funny, smart guy whose protectiveness over the mooks is really charming.

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed. Jason's moral compass bearing: Hero.

Jason Secundus is much more violent, not used to working with other people, and paranoid and antsy in a way that causes him to take it out on people who really don't deserve it. This is a compelling take on him, though I like him closer to Jason Primus. His trauma has clearly shaped him a lot, both for better and for worse.

Jason's sanity level: Seven out of Ten hinges affixed. Jason's moral compass bering: Anti-Hero, most of this focuses on him antagonizing two former Joker goons which kinda doesn't work well cause they're mostly scarecrow goons actually and also at one point he hurts them in a way that borderline just seems like stress relief. It's nothing worse than what we see Batman himself doing countless times, but it's still jarring because we've been made to strongly sympathize with the goon in question.

Batman: Three Jokers <- I read it while typing this up (the first version of this lol), so I got a lotta thoughts

Guh, this one is just fucking sad

So, I don't mind a story being blunt with its message as long as the message actually holds up. Unfortunately, this three parter's attempt at the cycle of violence lesson is... bad. Real bad.

Jason in it is neat! This is a good Jason portrayal somehow despite literally everything about the way this comic frames him! The narrative expects us to believe he is a danger to society on the cusp of becoming another Joker, because he *checks notes* shot the Joker dead, shot at a Joker loyal guy, and roughly interrogated an injured child abuser. At no point does he show signs of wanting to hurt innocent people. At no point does he show signs of doing any hurting without premeditation or a need to defend himself. I'm baffled by this.

My kingdom for a fucking CRUMB of nuance, I swear, smh...

I hear a lot of people hate his one sided romance towards Barbara. This is understandable as it squanders the opportunity to have a female character not be stuck as the narrative sponge for man emotions. I like it from the perspective of a Jason fan, and give condolences for the Barbara fans. It's not healthy, and good fucking job on the janitor sweeping away his letter to her so poor Babs doesn't have to deal with that shit, but I do like Jason's desperation to be loved by someone, anyone, who might show him compassion.

Jason's sanity level: Six out of Ten hinges affixed. He's sad, he's lonely, he needs some PTSD specific therapy, he's a bit creepy about his crush on Barbara, but quite frankly he has it together a lot more than the narrative would like us to believe. The way the other characters treat him like he's some kind of monster just waiting to snap and start maiming people indiscriminately makes me really uncomfortable.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Antihero. Quite frankly I'm tempted to say Hero out of spite.

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016) #1 - #43

There are three transcendental character moments in this run that I think make it worth reading even if not all of it's your cup of tea. On the other hand though there are some big issues that could very easily be deal breakers. Oh and anything after #43 is a wasteland and #43 is included purely for the implication that being transgender made a woman immortal.

The narrative structure is really heavily dependent on rule of emotional impact/cool/allegorical usefulness. Many events will not make any fucking sense based on petty things like basic logic or the laws of physics, but they do work just fine in the area of what makes the story more fun or the emotional beats hit harder. Stronger than average suspension of disbelief is necessary for the reward of getting a lot of stuff that's, like, just really fuckin cool.

The romantic side plot with Artemis is... odd. Either the author, Scott Lobdell, intended to write Jason as a desperate loser trying to date his uninterested lesbian friend who he co-parents with, or he accidentally wrote a romance so awkward and comp-het that I cannot wrap my head around reading it as reciprocated. This works for me because I have a lot of fun reading Jason as a desperate loser who's not even actually in love with her, he just is desperate to cling to the closest thing he's ever gotten to a nuclear family and in denial about being either aro/ace or gay.

Now, lets explore a lil bit of the whole Jason is a loser angle, cause it's not the whole story, there are many points in which Jason gets to be a badass motherfucker, but he is much, much less of the hypercompetant, highly determined, murderous threat he used to be. Almost none of the newer renditions of Jason are. This Jason in particular though is very soft and cuddly, and fits the archetype of man trying to be the edgy bad boy but who secretly just wants a hug and a warm glass of milk.

If I were to describe my personal Jason in a few sentences I would say that he is someone who loves himself viciously. He feels he has been wronged and is willing to burn down the world to rectify that. He will hold your ass at gunpoint and demand the hugs and warm glasses of milk that he fucking well deserves!

This Jason is about as far away from that as you can possibly get. I still like him though, and I do not count him as being a different character, because when you start with emotional logic that goes like this:

It wasn't my fault + I deserve better = I get to burn the world down in order to get better

It becomes extremely difficult to ever stop burning the world without also deciding "It was my fault" or "I don't deserve better". Jason is meant to have changed a lot, and this is a plausible evolution of the Jason I prefer.

Finally, the handling of Bizarro, a mentally disabled character, is a sensitive enough topic that your mileage will vary, even if I can't think of a bad thing to say about it. Jason and Artemis are really pretty good about treating him with respect, giving him help where he needs it and autonomy where he's capable of taking it. They raise him, but don't control him, and he is literally like three days old when they find him so this isn't infantilization. It takes the framing of Lenny from of Mice and Men and Flowers for Algernon and rejects them in a way that I am satisfied with. You'll just have to read it for yourself to see if you're satisfied as well.

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed. I kinda wish he was more unhinged.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Hero. He even saves a puppy and gives them pats.

Knight Terrors: Robin

Have you ever been in the mood for a syrupy sweet hurt/comfort fanfiction in which Jason and Tim were magically forced to talk about how much they like each other in order to overcome their own insecurities? Do you wish that existed as a lavishly illustrated two issue comic?

If you answered yes to those two questions then congratulations! It does exist; this is it; go have fun!

If you think that sounds like ham fisted garbage turning what should be several long arcs of serious reconciliation and deeply meaningful character moments into two issue fan service schlock then condolences! I wish you all the best in denial, as all comic fans sail that river sooner or later and I shall join you upon it someday.

What category do I fall into? Well I think this is definitely ham fisted, but I won't kick a boar out of bed as long as they ain't a bore, and this little ditty is certainly entertaining.

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed.

Jason't moral compass bearing: Hero.

Batman and Robin Eternal

This is a decent portrayal of Jason in his modern, much friendlier, and much more bat family integrated rendition. He has some fun moments in it, and I like his staby bracers.

I don't like this comic. It commits the most dire of writing sins: Being boring. I think about Jason every second of every minute of every day; if your comic that majorly features a good portrayal of him cannot hold my attention, then something has gone very wrong. Hopefully one of you will like it more than I do.

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Hero.

Suicide Squad: Get Joker! (Content warning for suicide, skip to the hot take if this'll get to ya - also spoiler warning cuz I can't discuss this properly without discussing the ending)

A three issue miniseries in which Jason is inducted into the Suicide Squad on a mission to kill the Joker. He's highly competent as a team leader, grounded, intelligent, and uses measured violence in a way that is satisfyingly tactical. The squad they threw together honestly has some pretty neat chemistry as a whole, and the characters were appropriately messy and quite likable.

This isn't higher on the list because it thinks it earned it's ambiguous ending, and frankly, it's wrong about that. Ambiguous endings live and die by the question they make the audience sit with - It has to be worth losing out on the emotional payoff of a solid ending.

The question of "If you left Jason in a room with the Joker and a gun with one bullet, would he shoot the Joker or himself?" is a really shitty question. Like, did the authors not realize that just on a logistical level, Jason could leave the room and find a second bullet after shooting the Joker? Like, seriously, even if we accept the premise that Joker's speech got to Jason, there are no reasons for him not to choose the "both" option. The only way I can imagine this working is if the Joker is actually the fucking Purple Man from Jessica Jones using mind control.

So we exchanged the validation of literally all our protagonists' struggles/sacrifices paying off for... the vague implication that Jason unforgivably betrayed his teammates, himself, and the entire world because he was so eager to die that he couldn't wait ten fucking minutes. If I loved the Joker I might feel differently about it, but as is, I felt insulted.

This would have been Solid Storylines or maybe even Creme de la Creme if not for that implication. It's not boring though! The rest of it up to the end is honestly pretty damn good, if a bit convoluted, and much of the ending's sour taste can be assuaged by getting out a sheet of paper and doodling Jason opening Joker's head with a handgun and then going out for icecream with the team.

Jason's sanity level: Ten out of Ten hinges affixed. He's a sad, sad lad tho.

Jason's Moral Compass Bearing: Anti-Hero, forced to be much more violent than he wants to be.

A Hot Take

I bet you thought the tentacles were the hot take! HAH! MuahahaahhHAHAHAH - Prepare now, puny mortals, to witness me defend Pill Helmet Jason AND his fashion choices!

No, I am not talking about Winick's redo late in the game, we've already been over that one. I mean I will defend Grant Morrison's flop era, three foot head gear wearin, goofy ass, unwashed ass, "how to build ur brand" reading maniac

It's time to talk about Batman and Robin (2009) #1 - #6

The interpretation of one scene makes or breaks this Jason:

If you believe he is being insincere and manipulating her into putting all her emotional eggs in the basket of his crusade, ignoring her wellbeing in favor of his 'brand', then this is probably the worst mischaracterization of Jason ever written.

If you believe he is being sincere, genuinely comforting her in the only way that he's got to deal with his own trauma, giving her real affection and not pushing her to take either option with the mask because he trusts her to make that decision for herself, then this gets Jason very right.

No matter what Morrison might have intended, I choose to believe it's the latter. This is terrible advice to give a trauma victim, but it makes perfect sense for Jason to believe that about his own trauma, and thus to pass that maladaptive view along.

He doesn't try to assure her that the mask can come off safely or that he'll get her a doctor because he really can't promise her either of those things. It would be cruel to her to pretend that he's got a solution. Jason can't undo the damage that was done to her any more than he can force a dead Bruce to kill the Joker.

Instead he offers her purpose, and reassurance that she's gonna look badass if she never does take it off, and protects her when she's in trouble.

You can claim this is just him acting out his chosen Hero role, but like, WHY would he have chosen to method act that role 24/7 if he wasn't trying to BE a Hero who protects people like Scarlet? There's nothing in it for Jason to fake this.

I also think if he was being written out of character as a manipulator we would have seen him use a romantic or sexual angle which he absolutely doesn't do.

Dickie, you are such a funny Batman, they never shoulda brought Bruce back tbh.

Instead, he seems to be taking a more parental role, in a near perfect reflection of how Bruce took him in when he was a kid. Just he's doing it his way, meaning that whenever Scarlet goes further with the violence than Jason seems to want to, he backs her up instead of chastising her.

Speaking of violence and morals, Let the Punishment Fit the Crime is a coherent moral position to take, even if you (understandably) disagree with it, or disagree with what punishments fit which crimes. It's basically the same moral position as every other version of Jason there's ever been! Like, is he even killing more people than he used to in stories like Under the Red Hood? No, I don't think he is. In fact, I would argue that Morrison's Jason is significantly less violent than Winnick's overall!

The branding thing is weird, lil annoying too after a while, but ultimately it still makes sense. And brings me around to my promised defense of his fashion choices.

First of all the symbolic importance of the fact that he wears white cannot be overstated in my mind. Will I elaborate? No, this post is way too long already lmao! Second off, it's supposed to be silly. I believe the silliness was a conscious, calculated choice, and the right one to make.

Jason doesn't believe that fear works, he's not trying for pure intimidation, and he knows that he's going to have to appeal to people in his bid to be seen as a Hero. Making himself seem big but non-threatening, a bright patch in the night, makes real sense.

Take a look at this view of Jason from Scarlet's POV when he comes to rescue her from the cops after she kills her dad:

He's got a smoking gun in his hand and he just shot two cops dead, yet we're hard fuckin pressed to find him intimidating aren't we?? Cornball dialogue, and the silliest fuckin hat in the universe, because he's not meant to be from this era, he's emulating the Golden and Silver age comics and all their goofiness. He's trying to be the older, happier, sillier batman that used to exist (at least in his head), while doing what he believes is right and necessary.

The costume makes sense dammit!

Also it just doesn't look bad, I can't provide an argument for this, it's just true!!

Also also every one of these fuckers should be wearing a helmet too, this is basic brain safety, if you're gonna go around antagonizing fuckers with guns you need to make your head at least nominally bulletproof, it's that simple!!!

Also also also the fact that he had red hair in this is oft maligned, but it gives Jason an in universe avenue to express a grievance with a super important part of the way Bruce treats him in his post-crisis time as Robin - Bruce was using him as an emotional replacement for Dick.

Morrison may not have liked Jason, but he demanded that every single iota of Batman lore be treated as important canon and that means that he also treats all of Jason's history as important canon too.

Now... do I recommend you read this? (This section was rewritten on January 28th, 2024)

Yes, with significant caveats. There's a reason I chunked this in with YMMV.

First is the Batman typical ableism of just really fucked depictions of mental illness. I normally wouldn't warn for this because everyone knows most of the rogues and will be aware of what they bring to the table, but Professor Pyg is obscure enough I wouldn't expect people to know, and the way he's written just... hurts. Like there's just something about him that is painful to read as someone that's got several schizophrenic friends who are near and dear to my heart. I would hesitate to recommend it to any of them the same way I'd hesitate to recommend Silence of the Lambs to most other trans people.

Secondly this comic is Extremely Gay (a definite positive!) however it is Extremely Gay in a way that kinda requires some onboarding and analysis to properly parse and that is actually why this post was edited:

The first time I read this comic, my impression was that it was vitriolically homophobic. Considering that at the time I had heard many things about Grant Morrison, and none of them good, I went with my gut. I put here that while I would defend Jason's characterization, I couldn't in good faith recommend something so bigoted, detailed what felt bigoted, and went on with my day.

Then a while later I saw a post that I suspect was talking about this one saying something along the lines of "How the hell could you call Grant Morrison, who gave us so many of our most iconic gay characters, homophobic? The racism and such I can understand but homophobic? No."

To which my initial response was a resounding: Wha??? Like, genuinely how was I supposed to read this and not get homophobia out of it?? But I went and looked Morrison up and yeah sure enough the guy's queer so I dug deeper and mulled it over until I figured out what the fuck I was missing. So, this section is a correction and an apology about that earlier homophobia claim. Sorry about that.

The styling of this queerness are highly akin to that of the John Waters movie Pink Flamingos which I'll let Matt Baume explain better than I ever could. This guy right here is pretty much the perfect example, Hell, he's even literally named The Flamingo.

Essentially it's queerness is all aggressive, unapologetic, and designed to be provocatively shocking, which can be jarring if you're not ready to flow with it. Also he likely had to arrange a lot of things to get around censorship, same as Judd Winick did. For instance the fact that Dick spoke the same circus lingo as the troupe of Very Queer Freakshow Workers who destroy the police precinct was meant to imply that Dick is Very Queer too. Pretty sure he would've said that in a far less convoluted way if he could've.

So, with the bulk of my initial reservations about this comic disproven... I have no choice but to straight up recommend it to anyone who thinks they can jive with this vibe of storytelling!

Jason's sanity level: One out of Ten hinges affixed. Obsessive, not taking care of himself, possessed of some really maladaptive trauma coping frameworks, completely unhinged. My condolences to his mental health, but I do love to see it.

Jason's moral compass bearing: Antihero. It's weird because this is undeniably a much darker comic, and Jason certainly feels darker, but in terms of what he actually does, and what the other characters do, his violence is honestly very tame.

So, cards on the table, here is the core of who Jason is to me:

He's got clear moral motives and a drive to help as well as harm, though violence and harm are the main ways in which he tries to improve the world.

When confronted he does not back down; he does not let himself be overshadowed or silenced. He is confident in his decisions and every bit of push back is already accounted for in his head.

Everything he does is premeditated. He is not impulsive. His plans may sometimes be unhinged but they are methodically planned.

He is painfully sincere, the way fire is painfully hot.

He desperately desires love and connection, but it will take many years of constant rejection and fighting before he is willing to accept any kind of compromise to his ethics for the sake of civility.

Under all the hurt and combativeness, he's a pretty goofy guy! He's got a sense of fun and likes to be flamboyant and silly when he can!

He's a villain, a hero, a protagonist, an antagonist, and everything between the extremes. He exists as a powerful counter-thesis to Batman, and as such DC can't ever fully answer the question of what to do with him. He exists in this waffling limbo state as his morals are debated, stretched, refuted, turned on their head. I think that makes him a wonderfully fascinating character to love.

I hope you enjoyed this and, like, go have fun reading comics!

[vellaphoria]

g2 and w1 for the ask game? <3

Thank you for the ask!! <3

G2. Something you want to write but haven’t yet. I'd like to write something with Reverse Robins! Though I'm not sure exactly what I'd do with it aside from a vague thought that resurrected and morally grey Tim kidnaps robin!Dick for Reasons and it immediately goes sideways because Dick's massive crush on him means he's very on board with this. The way I put it to my beta reader was something like: Dick (attempting to feign fear while pouting coquettishly): Are you going to... have your way with me? Tim: No??? Dick: please Also this: when Tim first kidnaps Dick, he ties him up. But Dick is still an excellent escape artist, so he unties himself, adjusts his costume so that he looks artfully disheveled while revealing a lot of skin, then re-ties himself. Tim, coming back to his safe house: this was a mistake. (<- trying really hard to convince himself he isn't a bit charmed/turned on by Dick) W1. Do you have a set number of fics or words you want to write in 2025? Ooooh, kind of a tough one! My goal for the year is to publish something at least once a month, though I also count chapter updates for that. We'll see if I can find the time for it 😂

[kit04kat]

Ranking the batfamily most to least likely to become a supervillian. (Plus all my ramblings about why I put who where [disclaimer, i have not read the comics due to me not having that kind of money]) I started thinking about this while reading a fanfiction where Dick, Jason and Tim were taken in by villians instead of Batman and it got me thinking. Anyways, let's get to the rankings.

1: Tim Drake. Starting off strong with our resident boy-genius with stalker tendencies. This may shock some of you, but I look at this human disaster and see a plethora of supervillian potential. You take away this man's adult supervision and the world may never be the same. What was happening with the league of assassins? And the fact that he tried to clone his best friend out of grief? Also I feel like we all skimmed over the fake uncle shenanigans too quickly. I once saw someone say something like Tim's moral code is copy-pasted off a house rules sticky note on the fridge and I agree.

2: Jason Todd. Seriously, we all saw this coming. Now, you might ask me, "but Kat, why is Jason at number 2? Didn't Red Hood already do the villian thing?" And to that I say, Ha! I am ranking them on supervillianiousness(???) Jason had his whole revenge plot and crime lord thing in Gotham but after that was done, he kinda settled out a little bit. So no, I don't think Jason has ever been a supervillian, just a villian, and after that he was more like an antihero/vigilante. That being said, I don't think he is incapable of being a supervillian, which is why he is number 2.

3: Stephanie Brown. Ok, I'm gonna be honest, I was really wavering on the order of the people in the middle. Also, I'm not gonna claim to know a whole lot about the adventures Steph has been through. That being said, I feel like she is just a tad bit more unhinged than the rest of the people in the middle, and therefore more likely to go insane. And if she had the proper motivation, she could totally be a badass supervillian. (Kind of reminds me of Jason in that way)

4: Damian Wayne. Alright, here's the thing. A lot of Damian's character development has been about him overcoming his heritage and learning that the things he learned with the league of assassins were bad. That being said, I don't think he will ever leave behind those ideologies as thoroughly as Cass and Bruce did. I think he sees the world in a lot more shades of grey than they ever will, and because of that, I've decided to put him forth on our list.

5: Barbara Gordon. I'm putting Oracle right smack dab in the middle. Not because I couldn't figure out where to put her, but because that's where she belongs. Listen, do I think she would ever become a supervillian? No, not really. However, if for some reason she had to become a supervillian, she'd be able to do it. If she ever turned to the dark side, it would be completely thought out. Calculated. And my girl doesn't do anything half-assed.

6: Duke Thomas. Now, Imma be honest, I don't know a whole lot about Duke, and I didn't really know where the best place to put his would be on this lineup. I put him in 6th cause I don't think he'd turn into a supervillian but he's more likely than the last three. He probably deserves to go further up the list, but oh well.

7: Bruce Wayne. I know some people will probably say he should be further up the list, but here is my reasoning. Batman's whole kinda thing is that he's always toeing the line. He's doesn't kill because he knows he wouldn't be able to stop. He is Darkness, Vengeance, the night, all that stuff. (It's why Batman needs a Robin) If he broke, he'd be broken. I don't think he'd be able to come back from that (I also disagree with myself a bit, cause there's no way his kill count is 0. I mean, he's been beating people up at night instead of therapy for decades) Anyways, that being said, man is stubborn and has been doing this vigilante stuff for a longggg time. I simply don't think he's gonna turn.

8: Dick Grayson. We are getting towards the bottom of the list here, to the people I think are least likely to become a supervillian. Dick has been through so much. With Renegade, Red X, Spiral, whatever was up with Ric, he took up the cowel and became Batman when Bruce was gone (which is something he never wanted to do), he's had so many of his friends die, family die, and that's not even all! He's been through a lot, but he's also the light to batman's dark. He's been through all that and still chooses to be good. There's no way he's ever becoming a supervillian (even if it is a very interesting plot in fanfiction)

9: Cassandra Cain. Last but certainly not least, Cass. I personally think she is the least likely to become a supervillian. She was raised as a weapon and taught to kill, but she has completely overcome that. She won't kill at all, much like Bruce, but she's also more emotionally sound. Her morals are strict, and she doesn't have to fight with herself to keep them. I love her so much, truly one of the best of us.

I'm gonna put Alfred as a honorable mention. He doesn't get to go on the list cause honestly, if he ever became a villian, it's over. He's have the world in his clutches before the week is over. Gotta respect him for having the patience of a saint.

This was so long! Anyways, feel free to add to this or tell me how you would rank them differently!!

[james-stark-the-writer]

okay, i have the time to spare — well, no, i don't, i have a final paper due in a few days that i haven't even started yet but it's fine, i'll be fine, this is part of my process, let's continue with our stupid DCEU binge, so, next up is The Flash, so this is technically homework for it, but i've been meaning to get these movies off of my watchlist forever. i'm not fucking watching Adam West Batman for homework, it deserves better than that, you can't make me, i'm also not devoting that much time for a fucking Flash movie that i'm going to hate probably (i don't really know much about it, but just based off what everybody else said and how i already think it's spiritually and morally corrupt for doing what it does to dead people, but also Christina Hodson wrote it, and she has written the best DC movie — second place goes to Matt Reeves' The Batman — so it might be good? we'll see soon enough) so, this is what you get.

now seated for Tim Burton's Batman (1989). i'm looking forward to seeing if this is Planet of the Apes Burton or Corpse Bride Burton, Alice in Wonderland Burton or Sleepy Hollow Burton. it says this won an Oscar, but a lot of terrible movies have won Oscars, awards are not what you people think, but let's not get into that today. anyway, i don't really know anything about this movie, like at all other than who plays the Batman so? hopefully it's at least interesting. i have seen like one scene from these old movies with Riddler in some grey building or something at some point on TV? i don't remember which movie it is, don't know if it's this one or the sequels. that's all i really know.

[necrotic-nephilim]

au for the ask game, cass starts to romantically pursue dick trying to model after the repressed feeling in Bruce (trying to be like batman) and not fully understanding the emotions, bruce sees this and becomes jealous and so dick is caught in the middle of the two bats fighting for his love but he sees them both familiarly (like brother and sister)

for the ask game!

OOOOOOH. yes yes yes. i love how much Cass truly wants to *embody* Batman. like that is her goal. to embody the Mission, to put her whole life into the symbol, the work. so it's fun to play with the grey areas where she misunderstands what is Bruce and what is Batman, and attempts to emulate his more problematic behaviors.

so I just. I love the idea of Cass perceiving this as normal. like, that is just how being Batman works because for Bruce, his love for Dick *genuinely* is so integral to being Batman. like it's undeniable even to an outsider, how much Bruce needs Dick as a moral compass, as a true north, as his family. Cass just happens to pick up on it being entangled with a romantic longing that Bruce has *zero* interest in pursuing. until of course, he sees Cass pursuing it. bc i think Dick gets flirted with so much, he sort of tunes it out. he doesn't notice, immediately, that Cass is trying to flirt with him, especially bc Cass isn't the best at it. she's trying tho! but Bruce. Bruce notices instantly and at first, he thinks it's the same sort of hero crush Tim has for Dick and that it's no real issue. until Cass starts genuinely pursuing Dick. they start with an awkward standoff. the fun thing about Bruce and Cass is they don't need words to argue, they just need pointed stares and clear actions. Cass flirts with Dick, Bruce makes a point to not have them work together on the latest mission, all while staring her down. Dick can tell there's some kind of tension going on, but no matter how much he prods, he can't *quite* figure it out.

Dick slowly realizes when Cass gets more bold. at this point she's both doing it to spite Bruce and to be Batman, but along the way, there are some real feelings. Dick tries to... gently turn her down/ he doesn't want to hurt her feelings, but Cass doesn't have the best understanding of romantic vs familial love, so she can tell Dick loves and cares about her and she just assumes he's a little shy about it and she doubles down. besides, that's what Bruce does at Batman, and that's her real goal here. meanwhile, Bruce has never acted on his feelings before, but he'll be damned if Cass beats him to Dick. so he also starts. dropping hints toward Dick. becoming more romantic toward Dick with gestures and gifts. and now Dick is caught between the two of them both lavishing him with attention and compliments.

Dick being kind of at a loss of what to do is fun. like how do you even navigate two people who you view as family both deciding to start a small war over courting you. he's flattered, but he just wants things back to normal. and whenever he rejects one of them, it just spurns on the other to think they're gaining ground. logically, Bruce is aware that Dick doesn't reciprocate for either of them. but he's driven by such an angry possessive streak over Cass' actions he's not exactly thinking with his brain. Bruce can be the goddamn king of petty, when he wants to be. the ante just keeps getting upped, until i think one of them even gets bold enough to come onto Dick sexually. probably Cass first.

on one hand, i do sort of like the idea of Dick finally caving and agreeing to date one of them just to make it stop. i think he'd go with Cass, just because she's closer in age and far more agreeable than Bruce is. i rlly love a fic with an unhappy hurt/no comfort ending where Dick sacrifices his happiness for his loves ones because it's so in character for him. if it makes Cass happy, he'll go with it, bc he really does love her and maybe he can trick himself into being in love with her. but i think the more realistic route is that probably with Tim and Alfred's help, Dick stages a serious intervention where he laws down the law in no uncertain terms. Bruce and Cass agree to back off, but it's does take months before their standoffish behavior with each other subsides.

and as a hilarious ending, i think it'd be funny if the cycle starts again when Bruce gets eyes for someone else. bc this whole thing is what convinces him to move on from Dick and try to focus on himself, so he starts getting feelings for someone else and of course Cass is going to jump on it. i think the funniest option here is Minhkhoa Khan, bc that is a man who would take one look at the situation and fucking *preen* over the attention and lean right into that shit, just to see how far he can take it.

[grahambaham]

Hi, I'm bored and have decided to share some fics I really like, from multiple fandoms and stuff, in no particular order. Also, these aren't the actual summaries of the fics, just what I remember.

The World's Greatest Undercover Wizard by M_Mint - Tim Drake is going undercover as a fifth year wizard in Hogwarts to gather information on Dumbledore, Harry and the upcoming war.

Dark Matter by mysterycyclone - Peter Parker dies in Avengers Infinity War and wakes up in a Lazarus machine in a different world where he tries to find a way back home.

Literally anything by Bergen - lots of Spider-Man stuff, specifically Irondad but it's not cringey like a lot of them are. Well written and lots of the dry deadpan type of humor which I love.

The Blue Food Project by liketolaugh - Percy Jackson meets the characters of the Daredevil show and then later on the Avengers and becomes part of the team. Theyhelp him out with the Great Prophecy stuff and the Battle of Manhattan. Incredible writing, awesome plot, just love it. It's also Percabeth obviously.

Falling For You by 1967HogwartsGoddes - Percy saves Annabeth from falling into Tartarus but he couldn't save himself. So Percy's alone and Annabeth isn't there when he gets some morally ambiguous ideas. Dark Percy, Percabeth, lots of violence and bloodbending.

Harry Potter and the Welcome to the World of Grey by sobsicles - Voldemort succeeds in possessing Harry in the Department of Mysteries at the end of the fifth book and he starts to realize that not everything is always black and white. Morally grey Harry, Drarry but it's not the main focus of the story, Voldemort is still evil but you won't be able to hate him anyway, bizarre I know.

Peter the Pizza Guy by Irisen - Strange sends Peter to another universe instead of erasing everyone's memories of him. He arrives in Gotham and picks up a pizza delivery job.

Three's Family by darkbluedark - Harry and Draco are accidentally sent back in time to 1979 during their fight in the Room of Requirement in the last book and are found and interrogated by the order, specifically James Potter, Sirius Black and Albus Dumbledore. Harry and Draco spent most of their 'captivity' bickering and the rest being suspicious of the people they know to be dead. Not Drarry, one of the funniest fics I've read and there's a good sequel too.

While Mighty Oaks Do Fall by WitchofEndor - Ozai sends Zuko to work in the Fire Nation temple and Zuko becomes a Fire Sage and uses knowledge learnt there to fuck up Ozai's plans while travelling with the Avatar. Sokka/Zuko, one of my favorite ATLA fics.

Mountains and Badgermolehills by Glass_Onion - Zhao captures Zuko after he breaks Aang out of the Pohuai Stronghold for treason and while captured, he meets another prisoner, our very own Sokka of the Southern Water Tribe.

That's it I guess. But these are all some of my all time favorite's. Most of them are pretty long but the time traveling hp one is a one-shot. Hope you enjoy!

[odetodilfs]

THE ULTIMATE PEDRO BOYS RANK!

(ft. my own opinions)

This is a lil idea I had while talking to a friend and it started off with a top 5, but I decided to rank all Pedro boys here, but quite frankly, I love them all and it's just a miniature difference with each. NSFW mentions, but probably anyone can read. The list goes from top to bottom btw, my dumbass did it the wrong way round. I haven't watched some of the things some of these guys are in so just keep that in mind. Remember these are my own opinions and you're allowed to disagree with me!!

#1 Marcus Moreno

Now, he's not the most known, not the fan favorite, he's in the middle for fandom standards, but this guy is the cutest for me. Like I don't care how terrible the movie itself is I fell in love with that man his first second of screen time. He seems like the type to make breakfast for you in bed, he seems like the type to kiss you every morning, he seems like the type to be perfect. Also his world and situation is (considerably) more calm than most of the other Pedro boys, he's not a gun dealer, he's not in a world where a fungus has taken over, he lives a mostly normal life. AND COME ON, TELL ME THIS GUY ISN'T AS LOYAL AS A DOG. He's also a dad, and I love dads <3 With this, Marcus wins the #1 spot!

#2: Javier Peña

Javier couldn't score any lower than this. Sure, his life is considerably more agitated than Marcus's and he IS a huge manwhore... BUT I CAN FIX HIM!! I'd fulfill his dream of living in a ranch in Texas, I'd be his forever. He's also got that mustache and you KNOW he's good in bed, any position, Dom or sub, he does it ALL! And he'd also be hella protective of you too.

manwhore on #2

#3 Frankie Morales

He's so.. he's so adorable!! Frankie is just so cute and seems like the type of guy that would do it all for his partner. I just know his heart fills with joy when he sees you, his kid and him as a family. Why does he also seem like the kind of guy to verbally worship you and thank him every time he goes to sleep? I don't know, but even then, he's still so cute, (and probably good in bed).

Frankie Morales on #3 probably cause of my love for dads lmfao

#4 Javi Gutierrez

Goddamn, this man, this beautiful ass man, I'll never get over him, his puppy eyes, his everything. He's kind of like a more energetic version of Marcus, kind of, and he just seems super caring and adorable. I just know he wouldn't get tired of telling you how beautiful you look, how you're his world and that he loves you. When he gets tough he's also kind of cute btw.

#5 Pero Tovar

I'm not gonna lie... I'm guilty of having slept on Pero for hella long, but that's not the case anymore as he ends up #5 on this list! I see him kind of as a mix between Joel and Din. AND THAT SCAR, LORD...

I just wanna kiss this man all over and give him the loving he deserves. I also definitely see him taking out his weapons at anyone insulting you, he'd just be so in love with you.

#6 Joel Miller

Of course, the iconic Joel Miller can't be any lower than this, he's so adorable, like even if he's a mass murderer, he did it in the name of his daughter! Joel would be a very hard and strong man, if he has a soft moment with you, it means he plainly loves you and trusts you. And his brown eyes oh my god, and the greying hair, god, he's so amazing, I wanna take care of him. He'd be super protective and possessive of you too. Also he's a dad, of course lmfao.

#7 Tim Rockford

He's got cake, a hot ass mustache, shoulder holsters and a hot ass attitude with beautiful brown eyes. The only thing that kind of holds him back is the lack of a proper story, but that's amazing for fics as you don't really need an AU 99% of the time. I feel like he'd be really soft with his partner and constantly trying to make time for them and sometimes invite them to his office, he also seems like the type of guy to sneak behind you and give you hugs from behind .

#8 Oberyn Martell

A classic. Our slutty bisexual prince, who doesn't love that combo? We have canon confirmation that this man is good in bed too. I have the Headcanon that he's an amazing power bottom, but that's just me. I feel like he'd be super protective of you and constantly try to show his strength and attractiveness to you, even if you don't mean it, he'd definitely spoil you too.

#9 Din Djarin

Our little Mandalorian with social anxiety <3, I love him so much, he's so cute and I'm glad he got the ending he deserved with his child, (let me live in Nevarro with you and Grogu, I'll make you happy I swear). He's the definitely the protective type, and his patience is real short so it's best to not mess with you, Grogu or him. I feel like he'd have trouble taking off the helmet mainly cause he feels insecure that you won't like him.. but little does he know you're only gonna love him more, and eventually when he does do it, it's an amazing decision.

#10 Jack "Whiskey" Daniels

Now, Whiskey and #11 were a hard pick, I had a mental debate of who to put first, alas, Whiskey got #10. He's a cowboy, what's not to love? That mustache and his confidence, oh my god. His backstory makes me wanna comfort him so bad and just the reassurance, I feel like he'd also be extremely protective because of what happened with his ex wife and he doesn't want anything to happen to you as well. I feel like at some point he'd also like to become a father with you. Overall, so cute and probably good in bed as well.

#11 Dio Morissey

Oh my, it's certainly a switch up from the other Pedro boys. Much more blunt and dominant in general. But he's still super fine which got him the 11th spot. I know this man is extremely freaky in bed, and dominant as fuck too. Outside of the bedroom though, he'd give people death stares if he thinks they're looking at you weirdly and even if sometimes he's certainly quite strange, it has a certain charm to it don't you think?

The hot goth at #11

#12 Silva

Now, I was debating whether or not to put Silva here as Strange Way of Life isn't really out yet, but there's gifs of him, so I decided why not? This ranking will definitely go up when it gets released, as now I simply struggle to make head canons with him cause we know so little about him. I just know he's very passionate and would defend you so bravely. He'd do anything for his man and it shows, and the cowboy hat looks good. This cowboy can totally ride me!! He's my beautiful queer rep too, and I swear if I see fem reader fics of this guy my gay ass is jumping you.

#13 Dieter Bravo

Our favorite (probably bisexual) actor and artist, he's just so cute and cuddly, he'd give you the warmest hugs and cuddles and would constantly need reassurance that you love him which would be so cute. Physicality is his love language most definitely and his favorite way to sleep is with you both cuddling. He's also extremely funny which is just adorable, especially with his sassiness.

#14 Ezra

Our other little space boy <3, he's beautiful, even if he ends up losing an arm, but I'd still love him. He'd definitely recite poems to you under the stars and just come up with nicknames for you. He also looks so soft and looks like the kind to fall asleep in your arms while smiling. He'd always be super grateful to have you and will do anything in his power to please you.

#15 Comandante Veracruz

I feel like he's the super stoic and cutting guy who's hard on the outside but a softy on the inside, kind of like Pero Tovar in a different way. And I know if anyone lays a finger on you he won't hesitate to pull out the guns if he thinks it's enough. With you, he's super gentle, almost like another person but would grieve your touch. He also wouldn't mind using some of that aggressiveness in bed.

#16 Max Phillips

Now I know Dio scored high but he's an exception, but I'm missing the mustache or some facial hair. Even then, Max is still pretty hot and I'd let him feed off my blood if he wants to. He also has a funny personality which gets him far, he's also extremely dominant in bed.

#17 Marcus Pike

He's so adorable but I barely remember the mentalist and didn't watch the episodes he's in, I might rewatch it just for him. But he's really cute, I love their hair and the mustache so that gets him the places above the 2 down below. But he definitely seems like the type to praise your every move. If I knew him better he'd probably overtake Max.

#18 Maxwell Lord

Now... for starters I know literally nothing about this man cause I haven't watched WW1984, and the look kinda just isn't it... he's cute though, passable and probably uses cheesy pickup lines to make you fall for him. Also he's got a got a good ass so that prevents him from being last.

#19 Dave York

Now he's better in looks than Maxwell, but I literally can't think of any headcanons of him since I don't know this character at all in the slightest, so uh... sorry Dave York fans, he might rise in this ranking if I ever watch the equalizer... Ahhh! With this the list comes to an end, once again, I love all Pedro boys with tiny little differences but overall they're all amazing in their own right <3 I know I missed some like him in the Casillero del Diablo ad, but that kind of barely counts as a character considering he doesn't even have a name. Feel free to share your opinion in the comments/tags and please reblog this post!

[celaenaeiln]

My connection went off so idk if my ask just sent but. I was wondering your thoughts on post Robin Jason, because idk what his deal is at this point and writers don't seem to either. I don't think he's a heartless killer who should be hated and hunted by the entire family but I don't like this fanon "Jason is 100% right about everything and everyone else is the problem" idea either, when they put him in the family he feels really out of place and random and it's just.. one moment he's trying to kill Tim and the next he's the best guy ever with the softest heart?? I don't know there has to be a middle ground right?? I just can't get into Red Hood as a character due to this

Thank you for being so incredibly smart, reasonable, and intelligent.

You're exactly right. I think this is the same issue that's been affecting the Robin Dick vs Robin Jason mischaracterizations as well as the batgirls' that have been predominant in the fandom post 2020. Tim and Damian's motivations and personality have stayed the same from when they entered to now but Dick, Jason, Cass, and Steph have all grown as characters. Who they started out as, they've changed from then to now which has led to some confusion about their personality and motivations.

For Jason in particular - no, he shouldn't be hunted to the ends of the Earth for the things he did. He was hurting and acted out of pain. However it's irresponsible to refute those actions and blame other characters for them.

Jason was originally meant to be a villain. He was supposed to be like Freeze, a sympathetic villain - a character who despite their evil actions is understandable. All Freeze wants is his wife, Nora, back. He loves her and commits horrible acts that don't justify his actions but it makes sense. You're supposed to feel complicated about characters like him because they point out exactly why morality is grey. What Freeze does is wrong, but he does it for the right reasons. It's ultimately still wrong which is why he gets imprisoned.

That is Jason. Jason's actions were never supposed to okay. In what universe would creators who spent half a century working on and developing characters be okay with another character trying to kill them? What about that is acceptable? But it's not just trying to kill Tim (who only escaped by outsmarting Jason) or trying to kill Damian, the crimes he did are not acceptable.

He bombed Gotham just because despite knowing he didn't need to. He was willing to kill innocent children, men, women, and civilians for Dick and Damian were chasing him, after they helped him.

Batman and Robin (2009) Issue #25

In the Red Robin Comics, he was willing to use children as bait during a gang war.

Robin (1993) Issue #177

Not to mention Mia Dearden.

But at the same time, he killed people who hurt children

Red Hood: Lost Days Issue #3

Initially Jason's morality was a swinging pendulum. He was as likely to kill kids as he was to protect them. He didn't care about the lives of civilians if it meant getting away or completing his plans.

Batman/Superman (2013) Issue #26

Here Superman says he wants to save a kid so Jason argues that to save him, they need to poison the environment and wipe out several countries.

That's why Bruce struggles with Jason so much. Over his lack of care for people's lives. It's not the murdering of criminals that Batman is caught up on which is where I believe the misunderstanding in fanon comes from. It's his fear that by his own hands, Bruce created a deadlier version of the man who killed his parents.

Batman vs Robin Issue #3

So no it's not fair to blame everyone for Jason's mistakes and claim him innocent, but it's also not fair to say Bruce had nothing to do with Jason's mental state. If he had shown a little less hesitance at the reappearance of Jason in Under the Red Hood, if he had shown a little more love then Jason probably wouldn't have gone as crazy as he did after coming back.

Because he saw Jason killing everyone, Bruce fell into his worst possible explanation of Jason, knowing the pain he was going through but succumbing to selfish actions to protect himself.

Jason's tough to deal with for writers because even when the batfamily reaches out, Jason is the one that burns his own bridges. When Dick begged Jason to take his hand during the Battle for the Cowl, when Dick and Damian helped Jason save his friend during Batman and Robin (2009), when Bruce saved Jason and fought alongside him against a couple members of the Secret Society of Supervillains, Jason immediately turned around and killed people and bragged about it.

In Batman Urban Legends, Jason tells Bruce that he has given up guns to which Bruce is grateful but it's also not for him. It's a sign that Jason is turning a new leaf especially given how caring he was with the kid, calling him Blue Hoodie. That was so sweet of him. The current Batman family comics are a sign of things changing between Jason and the family. What has happened up until now is not the family's fault, especially when they've reached out for the sole purpose of extending an olive branch only to have it burned and tied to a person in return. But now things are slowly changing and writers are trying to show that.

Jason's story is story of growth. He didn't come back to save people, he came specifically for the sake of hurting Bruce. But over the years, the repeated attempts of the family (Dick and far less Bruce) of bringing Jason back into the fold has helped him move past his anger. To slowly become adjusted and settle down.

Writers have struggled to know what to do with a character that canonically wants to be included in the family but rebuffs their every attempt to include him. They finally figured out the problem was Bruce - hence his fight against Jason and his exit in Gotham War. I'm assuming now that Jason will become more involved in Batman comics.

As a character currently though, I think of him as a lone ranger. He works independently but he'll show up for family meetings and big events. He'll also join family dinners if he's coerced but for the most part he likes to run on his own or with his team.