#how do i tag this so kataang shippers don't have to see this

[sokkastyles]

I have a question, I know we know that shipping does not equal morality. And I get that, and I really like that. However, on my other blog, that should have been my main blog (yes I am that dumb). I have talked about Aang's non-consensual and criticized how Kataang is written, however, if you ship Kataang I won't come for your throat because that's not my style. I know the few misogynists/antis on here and on Twitter, and I don't want to let a few bad apples be my impression of a fandom, that's not fair, So now I'm side-eyeing myself over my past remarks. Likewise, I know shipping is not equal to morality, but I also want to criticize Kataang because of how flawed it is and how wrong that kiss was (and other things). I have no idea what I'm saying because at this point I'm rambling. What do you think?

Well, there is a difference between criticizing a ship and criticizing canon. I don't honestly care what people ship. I use the antikataang tag because I don't want to argue with people who do ship it, but that doesn't mean I won't be critical of what is in the show. I think expecting people not to engage critically with media is absolute nonsense. But there is a difference between engaging critically with the actual media and criticizing people's fanon or headcanons, which is where you get away from critically engaging with canon and move into the area of criticizing other people's opinions, which is how arguments start.

Like, there isn't really any actual concrete argument you can make to criticize zutara, because zutara does not exist in canon. It's all fanon and headcanons and speculation. And criticizing other people's opinions just makes you look like a dick.

You also have to take into account the intention behind something. The thing about the way Katara's relationship with Aang is presented is that we're supposed to root for Aang to get Katara, and every obstacle towards that end is just there to create dramatic tension for the male point of audience identification. That's the real problem with the noncon kiss, and people who are critical of it are right to point it out.

In contrast, when I say shipping isn't morality, I'm talking about people who write, let's say, dubcon zutara fics. Fanfiction as a genre is largely female-centered fantasy. Yes, even those lurid fics you're thinking of. People write and read these fics for completely different reasons and have completely different expectations than when watching a series like ATLA. Trying to say that someone can't criticize the way the show presents Aang kissing Katara after she said she was confused as a mistake to be glossed over (that is forgotten as soon as it happens) because they also happen to like reading darkfic is nonsense. There's also a long history of women's interests being policed that informs my views here, vs the fact that consent has only fairly recently become a conversation in mainstream media. You have only to look at the way the show itself portrays Katara having interests (especially in boys) outside of Aang as dark and dangerous to see this happening in ATLA itself. Or the way the creators got away with saying that zutara shippers are doomed to end up in abusive relationships while painting Aang as a typical Nice Guy stereotype who expects Katara to magically become his girlfriend (and gets angry when she doesn't) and seeing nothing wrong with it.

The thing is that zutara, if we look at the way it's written in canon as a metaphor for a romantic relationship, follows the same tradition of how fanfiction has historically existed as an exploration of romantic and sexual dynamics. Those conversations about consent are actually happening and being explored in fanfiction, even the dark stuff, whereas relationships that are presented as "wholesome" often push us to NOT have those conversations. So when I say shipping isn't morality, what I actually mean is that noncanon shipping and darkfic actually has more of a moral leg to stand on than uncritically engaging with relationships on the grounds that Aang is the hero so his goodness and worthiness to get the girl should just be assumed. Zuko has to work for his right to be in a relationship with Katara because he didn't start out from a place of goodness, and that, on its own, is very female centered because instead of starting out from the perspective of the male hero deserving a relationship by virtue of being the hero, we see the idea that a man has to work to gain a woman's respect and affection.

So it's not so much that I hate KA, but I hate the idea that we should engage in it uncritically. And that would be true even if it really was the most wholesome relationship in the world. The same thing cannot be true of zutara because even the darkest of darkfic are about women centering themselves in the narrative and engaging with power dynamics in ways that are subverting patriarchal norms about relationships by definition.

[dreamchasernina]

"I don't want to engage in ship wars"

"I can't defend my ship without being ATTACKED"

I wonder why you keep getting grief🤔

I'm sorry I don't want to be rude, but what the hell did you think would happen? You're clearly responding to criticism of your ship, and there's nothing wrong with that. But everyone else also has the right to a) respond to your arguments and b) call your points stupid. You're literally engaging with the ship war by arguing against criticism of your ship. You have to be able to see that

How is me responding to criticism of my ship - engaging in ship wars? I don’t mention another ship anywhere in my post. ANYWHERE. So like…anytime I talk about Kataang where I disagree with a popular opinion against my ship, it means I’m engaging in ship wars? Am I like…not allowed to address the common hate? After seeing 10 posts saying “Aang is an abuser” am I not allow to post to my own blog and say “actually, I don’t think Aang’s an abuser” and then not expect to be attacked for it?

I go into Kataang tag and see 10 anti Kataang posts a day. So if I want to share 2 pro Kataangs a day, without hating anyone else, that means I’m engaging in ship wars? I’m not addressing anyone in particular, just addressing the main points brought up against Kataang.

Seriously, genuinely, anon. Put another ask in my inbox and tell me where am I engaging in ship wars when ALL IM DOING is talking about MY SHIP and not even mentioning another ship, not in the posts and not in the tags. Those posts are meant for the people who are actively seeking content on that particular ship.

You’re saying the fact that I defend my ship against terrible takes without involving anyone directly, means I should expect to get hate? Does that sound okay to you?

If I see points defending another ship, I would NEVER go into their post to say, hey, actually that’s dumb. Why on earth would anyone do that? And you’re defending it for what??

Why am I, as an active atla fan and shipper, not allowed to share my thoughts on my ship without getting attacked?? Like seriously. Answer that question. All of my posts are positive. Nothing negative.

And I agree, anyone has a right to respond and disagree, but that’s not what’s happening. 2 of ZK shippers attacked, literally attacked my points, made fun of them, called me a “pest” and automatically blocked me without giving me a chance to respond. If you’re gonna block me, why respond in the first place? And I’m the bad guy in all of this? Because I dared to talk about my ship?

Like I truly don’t know how you guys don’t see how delusional you sound! I’m not the one going into ZK shippers blogs, looking for a post I disagree with and then shame them for having those opinions. I beg you to look inside your shippers behavior for once and ask yourselves, why are ZK shippers being labeled the worst part of ATLA fandom. By everyone. Maybe because of behavior like this?

[kataraslove]

Are you dumb? Zutara is not the fandom's preferred choice. Zutara shippers (TO THIS DAY) get harassed on a daily. They were even openly mocked by the creators. Yeah, when it comes to people who ACTIVELY SHIP in the ATLA fandom, Zutata might be preferred. But to people who don't make fan content or engage with shipping, Kataang is the preferred ship.

You Kataang shippers are so butthurt that you have to make things up, it's sad

you’ll never convince me that zutara isn’t the preferred ship throughout both the active shipping and the general fandoms. for instance, i tagged this with the APPROPRIATE “antizutara” tag so that it doesn’t actually end up in the zutara tag. how do i know that this is the appropriate tag? a quick glance into “antizutara” shows that all the posts are anti zutara posts. which means that you’ve somehow stumbled upon this post by stalking my blog (not your first time, i’m sure). i will continue to use the antizutara tag in fairness for those who don’t want to see anti posts (something that your fandom doesn’t extend to any other ship that gets in the way of zutara). your attempts to direct my anti posts into the general main zutara tag is clear and transparent and quite funny, actually.

if my hunches are correct, i know EXACTLY who sent this ask. stick to one narrative across all your accounts. either kataang is extremely unpopular and no one likes it or it’s always been the fandom’s preferred ship.

i can guarantee you that whatever harassment zutara shippers get on their zutara content, kataang shippers get ten times the amount of that FROM ZUTARA SHIPPERS. and it doesn’t even extend to just kataang shippers because your posts have actively been harming the live action actors, too. did you know that gordon - at the age of 12 - saw all of your ridiculous “he literally looks like her son” posts that were scattered across social media to the point where he told one youtuber that that youtuber was the only one to ever express positivity regarding his casting as aang?

anyone with limited experience in the atla fandom that doesn’t ship zutara can tell you all the amount of times they’ve had with zutara shippers jumping down their throats & forcing them to ship it. i’ll never understand this phenomenon in which shippers of the most popular ship in the fandom want to pretend to be oppressed. it’s not a phenomenon to just zutara shippers, but I’m sure the origins can be traced to zutara shippers after not getting their canon.

[the-badger-mole]

Shipper Tag Game

Tagged By @kila09

1. What ship were you completely obsessed with when you were a teenager, but now you don't care anymore?

I wouldn't say I don't care anymore, I just haven't been inspired by them in a while, but definitely Inu/Kag. They were not my first ship, but they were the first ship I wrote for.

2. Which ship would you consider your first one?

Serena/Darien from the Sailor Moon US dub.

3. Your first fanfic belonged to which couple?

Inu/Kag. And no...you can't read it.

4. Do you remember the first couple you saw a fanart over?

Inu/Kag. it was drawn by my friend

5. Did you ever get into ship discourse?

Ha! I am the discourse....yes. I do.

6. Did you used to have a NOTP or have it currently?

Kataang and Sess/Rin. The full body cringe I get when I think of either of them...

7. Who were the couple in the last fanfic you read?

Zutara

8. Currently, do you have any OTPs?

Zutara, forever and ever. Usa/Mamo (now that I've seen the original Japanese version), Inu/Kag

9. Is there any couple, to this day, you are extremely mad about not getting together?

Zutara. They are my only OTP that isn't canon, but they should have been. Hayley and Andy from Modern Family is next. I'm honestly not happy at how they handled Hayley's arc in general. The writers were so cruel to her! I'm still not over it, and I'm mulling over a fix-it fic for her (one-shot probably). Ichabbie (Ichabod Crane and Abbie Mills) are in third place, but a very distant third. I lost all respect for Sleepy Hollow after how they treated both Abbie the character and Nichole Beharie the actress.

10. Is there any ship you used to dislike but now you think they are kind of interesting?

...no. Not really. I mean, I guess you could count CaptainSwan from OUAT, but that's less I didn't like the ship and more I wanted to get rid of Emma so EYE could have Hook.

11. Do you have any ship that, in the past, was considered normal but now would be canceled over?

I mean...probably? I can't think of any right now. I only have a handful of ships that I care enough about to talk about, and most of them don't appear on my blog, so...🤷🏾‍♀️

12. What was your favorite crack ship?

Mai/Aang (or Flying Dagger as I call them). I don't even really consider this a crack ship. Don't get me wrong, I see them being a disaster together, but not in a cracky sort of way. More of a reality show couple way.

13. Who is the couple you read more fanfics of?

Zutara these days. It used to be more of an even split between my top 3 ships, but the fact that I get around to reading anything these days feels like an accomplishment.

14. What do most of your ships usually have in common?

Powerful women and the powerful men who would die protecting them. Also, powerful women and the powerful men who are their biggest cheerleaders

15. What do you absolutely hate in a ship?

I mean...pick a trait from Kataang, and that's pretty much it. Hero gets the girl because he's the hero; the woman becomes the supportive background partner no matter how powerful and ambitious she was before she got with him; Man can't control his violent outburst without his partner's help. Kataang is the embodiment of everything I hate in a ship.

@soopersara @dhwty-writes @veggie-smoothie @vocalvixen20cp the floor is yours if you want it!

[atla-confessions]

Y'all multishippers are so annoying. Stop coming into one of the ships you ship tag and virtue signaling. For an example I'll use Zutara (because that is where I see this most often, but it does happen to Zukka and might happen to others like kataang, as a non kataang shipper I can't tell ya), you can't go into the Zutara tag and be like "I'm NoT lIkE oThEr ZuTaRa ShIpPeRs, I dOn'T hAtE kAtAaNg. PiCk Me KaTAaNgErS!" That's how you guys sound, you sound like a pick me when you do that. Your not better than other shippers because you like multiple and you seem to have not learned a very basic thing in life, that being people have different opinions to you so stop being an ass. I myself multiship but I learned when I was a kid that people aren't always gonna agree with you and that's okay, why do you feel the need to act superior? Can y'all just stop acting superior to other shippers because you like multiple it's so not watermelon. Also just kindly stop cross tagging in general, it's not cool at all and you'd find more support in the correct tags.

X

[kila09]

SHIPPER TAG GAME

tagged by @gloster

1. What ship were you completely obsessed with when you were a teenager, but now you don't care anymore?

-not really obsessed, but I'd have to say Nick/Maddie from PR: Mystic Force. I really liked their dynamic and tbh, it was that couple that introduced me to fanfics because I went googling for info on Melanie and Firass

2. Which ship would you consider your first one?

-oh that's an easy one: Tommy/Kim. The moment I saw them on screen, I started shipping them before I even knew what shipping was. They were my OTP before I even knew what that was. Even at that young age, I was taken in by their chemistry, their understanding and acceptance of each other, the slow build up of their relationship...just...their everything. Honestly, it was because of this ship that i could not get into Disney fairytales because they did more to convince me of true love than any Disney movie ever did.

3. Your first fanfic belonged to which couple?

-Tommy/Kimberly. After I learned what fanfic was from searching Maddie/Nick...I stumbled upon a Tommy/Trini story and it didn't sit right with me lol. I kept thinking "Tommy and Kim are meant to be" and then I started writing a story about them. Took my weeks, after I'd written the first seven chapters, to work up my courage to actually post that first chapter.

4. Do you remember the first couple you saw a fanart over?

-more than likely Nick and Maddie.

5. Did you ever get into ship discourse?

-uhm....I mean, not really? I've responded to one or two anon posts or even made a post or two about a ship but actual discourse? I usually have those discussions with my friend

6. Did you used to have a NOTP or have it currently?

-ha! Did I ever! And still do: Kataang, Klance, Hinny, McRolls, Tommy/Kat, Jason/Kim, Dramione, Romione.

7. Who were the couple in the last fanfic you read?

-well, I'm currently reading three fanfics right now, so the couple in those are: Zutara, Tododeku, KinnPorsche

8. Currently, do you have any OTPs?

-ohh yeah: Tomberly, Drarry, Sheith, Zutara, KinnPorsche, Tododeku, DickKory, Geraskier

9. Is there any couple, to this day, you are extremely mad about not getting together?

-yes. I'm pissed they broke Kim and Tommy (rumor was, the letter wasn't even the original storyline but they did it because they wanted the fans to let go of Kimberly and accept Kat); Sheith (they had the best chemistry and the show kept drawing parallels between them and other couples on the show, including Keith's own parents); Zutara (they just made sense and I think Katara would've really blossomed even more because Zuko never would've stifled her or encourage to forego her own culture); Drarry (sure as shit, if one of them was female, it would've happen, so I don't see why it couldn't happen anyways. Plus, I feel they would've understood and balanced each other a lot better than their Canon couples).

10. Is there any ship you used to dislike but now you think they are kind of interesting?

-nope.

11. Do you have any ship that, in the past, was considered normal but now would be canceled over?

-i dont think so, no.

12. What was your favorite crack ship?

-i don't think I had or have one tbh.that.

13. Who is the couple you read more fanfics of?

-its split btwn most of my OTPs tbh.

14. What do most of your ships usually have in common?

-hmmm...idk, equality, I guess. The way they understand each other, how they are each others safe space in a way, how they can be themselves (all facets of themselves, e.g., angry, happy, messy, etc.) with each other, the way they're different but also the same in some ways

15. What do you absolutely hate in a ship?

-a bully/victim dynamic that is labeled as enemies-to-lovers; when a miscommunication happens and the person immediately runs away/avoids the other without giving them a chance to explain, which leads into the miscommunication going on for more than 2-3 chapters (even worse when it's a 15 chapter story and the miscommunication happened in like ch 2 and you're on ch 12 and it...is...still...going on)

Tagging: @tomberlylove, @the-badger-mole, @moerusai, @teamironmanforever, @luckydragon10, @ink-and-dagger, @mymcdanno, @angstosaur

[far-from-fran]

Violence ask game!! 7. what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

Ooh, this is a good one!😈

I'm gonna start with the funnier ones, then get to the more serious ones.

I don't currently hate any of these characters. I've pretty much gotten over it, but these are the first ones that came to mind.

Ok, I'm putting this under a cut as a warning to people in these fandoms. I'm going to be bitching and moaning. Probably about your favs. So, read the tags and:

🚨 DON'T LIKE, DON'T READ! 🚨

Anyway…

Danny Phantom

I don't have anything against Danny. I actually really like him. I just got tired of seeing him all over AO3. Almost every time I searched for a fic, even in fandoms that had nothing to do with him, I'd have to filter out a bunch of DP stuff. It got to the point where I was filtering out more DP tags than tags I actually wanted to filter out. It was annoying for a while, but I took a break from AO3, and now I just find it funny.

Dr. Emile Picani (Cartoon Therapy)

This is a general pet peeve sort of thing, but I just don't like how “uwu babyboy” people make him. He's a geeky therapist with a sensitive side, but people act like he's a softboi who's never done anything bad. (He has. I actually have big problems with his debut episode. The second episode is a lot better, imo.)

It's the same issue with Patton from Sanders Sides. They take a grown man and turn him into a tiny, wittle babyboi. It's mad annoying.

Also, I hate Emile in a skirt. I just don't think he'd ever wear one, so I wrinkle my nose whenever people talk about him in one. Honestly, the “fandom is afraid of masculinity” sentiment I've seen here and there is a completely different can of worms. But I'm starting to agree with it. Nothing against men in skirts in general/irl, though. Just to be clear.

But, anyway, fanon Emile is becoming indistinguishable from fanon Patton, and I hate that. Hell, canon Emile is becoming indistinguishable from canon Patton. Like, seriously. Since when has Emile ever had to “earmuff” because someone was cursing? (Mixed feelings about the Remy/Thomas therapy video.) Let Emile be an interesting character, please. And not just “Baby softboi, but he's wearing pink this time™”.

Virgil (Sanders Sides)

My feelings toward Virgil tend to fluctuate. Most of the time, I love him, but sometimes I can't stand him. (Mostly by his own doing.) But, the way the fandom treats him like the second coming of Christ in a purple plaid hoodie is so fucking annoying. Especially with the way people woobify him.

In canon, he started as a big jerk, realized he was a big jerk, and decided to be a little jerk. It's not like he's a little uwu baby who's never done anything wrong. The Halloween ep is even sort of about not woobifying Virgil. (It's more about taking anxiety seriously.) Like. I get it, but it's still really annoying.

Of course, there's the other side of the fandom that treats him like he's the devil. Which can also be annoying, but at least they actually call him out for stuff.

The most annoying thing, however, is how the other sides will be villainized to make Virgil look better. It's nuts. Like, yeah, Janus and Virgil have beef, but neither one of them is evil, so.🙄

Aang (Avatar: The Last Airbender)

Speaking of people treating a character like they're the second coming of Christ…!

In all seriousness, I never really had problems with Aang until toxic Kataang shippers started harassing Zutara shippers. They held the ship, and Aang, to such a high stature that I couldn't like either anymore. Especially since zutara shippers were (and still are) accused of being shallow, at best, and… checks notes supporting genocide????? at worst. And, the brunt of that was when I was, like, 12, so.

Obviously, I don't blame all kataang shippers. Most of them are pretty cool. And, zutara shippers can also be toxic. I'm a zutara shipper, and I've seen some of the toxicity firsthand. But, that experience really made fandom shitty for me.

However, I've watched the show recently and remembered that I really like Aang. Despite how much he can annoy me. So, there's always a bright side.

But, yeah. Thanks for the ask, @msnihilist!😊 Sorry if I got a little heated.😅 That wasn't directed at you, lol.

[elrondsscribe]

My developing feelings on Kataang. (Again, please no drama.)

Time to come clean.

I know I said I shipped Kataang … but I don’t. Not really.

Spoilers and stuff, by the way, plus criticism of Kataang (though not really of Aang or Katara as characters). 

Reminder that, as far as this post is concerned, the only ‘canon’ is Avatar: The Last Airbender;” no comics or Korra factors in here. And my sincere apologies to anyone who ships Kataang and thought I did too. Really, I’m sorry.

So yeah, I don’t ship Kataang, and it’s mostly for the reasons I mentioned before: the context of A:TLA (which is the only context I really have for these characters, I have no way to access the comics and I have no interest in them) shows me, on the one hand, a boy who struggles with the tendency to avoid/run away from issues rather than deal with them, and for whom dark emotions like anger have catastrophic consequences; and on the other hand, a girl with underlying abandonment issues and the tendency to overstate her own maturity, overdo the caregiver/scolding mom act, and withhold things to spare Aang’s feelings. This is NOT a functional combo!

I mean, other Kataang critics have already pointed this stuff out a hundred times, so I hardly need to strain my memory to come up with examples of Katara babying Aang and/or being dishonest with/about him in unhelpful ways (the Southern Air Temple incident; “It’s not his fault he disappeared!”; “Don’t boo at him!”; “Maybe a gentle nudge in the right direction!”; etc.). And yes, she mothers everyone in the Gaang, but she doesn’t treat them like children to the extent that she does Aang. Aang is also the youngest boy of the main cast, the only one actually younger than Katara, so I don’t see much chance of Katara ever really getting past the urge to coddle Aang. I know I said that a coupling where one partner sees the other as the child they must raise is “workable,” but what I meant is that it’s only workable if and when they get over that.

[Which, by the way, is part of the reason I ship Taang. Toph loves Aang in a much more honest, equitable way.]

And on the other side of this dynamic: Katara steps up to provide emotional support and care for Aang several times, but I can’t think of a single occasion on which Aang does the same. In fact, I think we can all think of an occasion during which he spectacularly failed to do so: during “The Southern Raiders,” where Aang in all his certainty tries to make Katara deal with a trauma he doesn’t understand and wasn’t asked about in a way he’s comfortable with. Obviously people disagree on how right Katara is to want the life of her mother’s killer, but that’s not what’s at issue here; what’s at issue is a fundamental mismatch in values between Aang and Katara at a key moment that doesn’t bode well for long-term Kataang. Even at the end of the episode, they’re not in sync: “Forgiveness is the first step you have to take to begin healing.”/“But I didn’t forgive him - I’ll never forgive him!”

Also, the maturity gap is not a non-issue here. We can natter away about “nature vs. nurture” (which, frankly, I think is a misleading discussion anyway, because isn’t the point of evolution that “nature” is just more generations’ worth of “nurture” anyway?), but the point remains that, for whatever reason, young girls typically mature more quickly than do young boys. Puberty, growth spurts, estrogen/testosterone distribution, prefrontal cortex development, whole nine yards. The point being, at this (extremely) early age, a 2-year age gap is a bigger gap in maturity between a younger boy and older girl than it is between a younger girl and older boy. And I can feel it: Aang in some ways looks to Katara like a mother, and doesn’t seem to see anything wrong with the way she cossets him. Not once does he express a sentiment like “I can lace my own boots without help, Katara!”

Aang and Katara are both good people - great people, whom I love! - and I have no doubt that they care about each other, but I don’t think Kataang works, and it definitely doesn’t work as presented.

And here’s the thing: Kataang doesn’t have to be endgame for the guardian angel/hope icon dynamic to work, because I think that’s kind of the vibe they’re going for. In fact, the “courtly love” angle would be helped by Kataang not being endgame. See, a lot of people misunderstand the point of “courtly love” in the old Arthurian-type romances and epics - “courtly love” is not supposed to be erotic/romantic, but based in idealization and inspiration (this was the sin of Lancelot). The knight goes off to war, determined to uphold Virtue, or whatever, as represented by the icon of his Lady. I think that Aang and Katara are, on some level, supposed to have this dynamic toward each other: it’s Katara’s voice that opens each episode with “I believe that Aang can save the world” and he looks up to her like - well, like a guardian angel. They both idealize each other quite a bit (sometimes even when the other’s flaws are staring them in the face).

And as you can see, courtly love is a bad dynamic for an actual relationship, because a key part of what makes functional relationships work is the emotional honesty to see yourself and your partner(s) as the people you really are.

So, TLDR: I don’t ship Kataang because I’m uncomfortable with the dynamics of a ship wherein an older girl with abandonment issues mollycoddles a younger boy who tends to avoid his problems and isn’t good at giving her emotional support. I also think Kataang hurts the dynamic of reciprocal “courtly love” that the show seems to be going for.

[tiny-katara]

Let’s be real. I bet that if Aang looked like Zuko, you all would ship Kataang. Just admit that you think Zuko is attractive and not Aang. And Zuko may be your type, but he isn’t Katara’s. She never expressed any attraction towards Zuko, not even a subtle attraction like she did towards Haru. You may not think Aang is attractive but Katara obviously does. She has her own taste.

Uhhnmm????

Excuse you???

No. Even if Aang looked like Zuko I wouldn’t ship it because my problem with their relationship has literally nothing to do with aesthetics and everything to do with the fact that Aang doesn't respect Katara's boundaries.

It also has to do with the fact I personally identify with Katara's passion and have been with a partner who hated conflict/confrontation like Aang, which wasn't a great time for me. It is a deeply personal dislike based on my struggle to make my feelings more palatable and toned down for my male counterpart in the relationship. It was painful and I see that part of myself in Katara, who handles all of the attempts to get her to calm down and do the easy thing with a grace and strength I can only aspire to.

Also it's a bit disgusting to assume some random person's type. It's at the very least rude. You know absolutely nothing about me and the argument that you're insinuating is that I want to "fuck Zuko." Whether that's your intention or not, that is the implication and it's completely disrespectful of the aspec Zutara shippers, which I personally identify with, and any Zutara shipper that is not attracted to men. Please take a solid look in the mirror and think about that.

And you know what, yeah. I don't think Aang is attractive because he is a literal child. No one except maybe other children should be finding him attractive!!! That's weird.

Additionally, Katara literally tells us her type in "The Fortune Teller" if you missed it. She specifically mentions that she hopes her partner will be tall and handsome. Aang is neither of these things in the show, and he shouldn't be because he is a 12-year-old child.

And yeah, Katara doesn't express any interest in Zuko but literally what does that have to do with the conversation? This about Kata*ng and how a lot of the scenes in the show make some women uncomfortable. Zuko does not fit into this equation at all.

I also noticed you mention Haru and not Jet, someone Katara is most definitely interested in. Jet and Zuko look strikingly similar and if Jet is Katara's type, I see no reason why Zuko wouldn't be, although I will admit this is speculation, but it's pretty well founded if you just... look at both of them lol.

Katara is welcome to have her own taste. I have no issue with that, but what I find odd is that the guy she ends up with is one she shows little to no interest in during the show and the ones she explicitly shows interest in look nothing like her canon love interest and are instead tall and handsome. Your argument could carry some weight if she actually ends up with Aang when she's older, but she doesn't.

And also we don't need to see her express any canonical interest in Zuko to ship it. We're here for concepts and the chemistry, although I can see how that can be confusing to someone who's main argument for their ship is that its canon and everyone else should just move on.

Please go enjoy canon on your own. You're more than welcome to, anon. I encourage you to do so and to block any tags that may upset you in the future.

[flameohotwife]

No offense I guess but why do you and other Kataangers let ZKers walk all over you? Kataang isn't my OTP but I like it and every time I go into the Kataang tag there's like 1000000 billion comments about why Aang sucks and why Kataang was horrible from ZKers. I just went into the ZK tag and I saw one that was the opposite about that in 100s of posts and the ZK fans got on that person's ass so much they deactivated.

I get not wanting drama but it's giving that you don't want to defend this ship for some reason and tbh that's how ships, even popular canon ones, die. New people come in all excited, then see that bullshit and no one calling it out and think "Oh well maybe Kataang does suck and ZK is better. I'll go over there."

Just saying.

So, anon, I get what you're saying here but also I have my tags so carefully curated that most of the time I'm not even seeing the drama you speak of. I don't go into the comments on posts. I am literally just here to enjoy and create content for the sweeties and that's it. I don't want the time I spend in fandom to be filled with drama and stress so I block a LOT of tags, and I know most of my kataang-shipping friends do the same. If someone came onto one of my (or my friends') posts or into my inbox with drama you can bet I would defend kataang to the death but also I truly don't think that bullying people to the point of deactivation/forcing them out of fandom over ship wars is acceptable ever. That's just not a behavior I would like to emulate.

Kataang as a ship is not going to "die." It might not get as many hits or as much content as popular fanon ships, but that's because the *majority* of fans see what we get in canon and are happy with it. They don't find the need to seek out or create more content because kataang is CANON. It HAPPENED. And for the most part, those of us who *are* in fandom to create and seek out more sweetie content are here because we love our ship and it's FUN and we want to explore it even more. We aren't here to fight anyone or bash any other ships (and, on the rare occasion we engage with ship wars, it never changes anyone's mind. It just raises blood pressures, and that's not healthy for anyone). As a good fandom friend said to me, we focus on the things we love about our ship and not on hating others, and that's NOT going to change (for me at least).

I'll also say that no ship's fandom is perfect. I've seen a lot of toxic behavior from every side of the aisle, kataang shippers included. I myself have made many mistakes. I am always trying to learn and grow and be better, but I know that's not an overnight journey. I don't want to add to the toxicity, though, by picking unnecessary fights over a canon ship. If other people don't like it, that's their prerogative. Ship and let ship and block everything you don't want to see and your fandom time will be a happy one, anon. Just saying.

[thinkingisadangerouspastime]

So, I'll bite, because I think some of these conversations should be had publicly and not behind the cloak of anon.

Why does it bother you personally if someone ships Kataang and is anti Zuko, if they are not tagging those posts in the Kataang tag?

I have a mutual who hates Zuko and ships Kataang. She keeps her opinions to herself in her own blog, tagging her posts anti zuko just in case. Why is hatred of a fictional character somehow an offense in fandom now? No one is going to die because she thinks Zuko shouldn't have been in the show.

Here's the deal: I only am tangentially involved in ATLA fandom. From what I see, most Kataang fans don't care what other people ship. They want to make their own content and be free of the stupid takes on Aang, Katara and their relationship that permeate their fandom. But even if they did hate or resent multishippers, if they are not calling you out or reblogging your properly tagged ship posts to shit on them, what business is it of yours?

The idea that a Kataang fan who can create content and add to the fandom, but happens to hate Zuko or any other character or ship being a "bad fan" is ludicrous. I don't know why so many people seem to be afraid to say this to you without hiding.

P.S.: It's pretty obvious that one troll anon is writing all of these anons, probably to get you riled up against Kataang fans who are looking at this shit like "wtf?" You and others are being used to spread dissent in a harmless part of fandom, but a person who hates Zuko on their own blog is the problem?

hi! firstly, i greatly appreciate you being willing to step forward and ask for clarification; i wish more people would do so instead of jumping to ridiculous conclusions lmaooo

secondly, you have asked some great questions! im gonna try to take them one at a time bc it works best for my brain lolol

1) it does not bother me if the posts are properly tagged! in fact, i don't believe i ever implied it did, so im a little confused on why you bring that up 😂 what does bother me is when unsolicited anti zuko anons barge into my inbox and insist that it's impossible to like zuko and ship kataang and similarly negative rhetoric. bc like. yeah, that's really rude and kills motivation 😂

2) hatred of a fictional character is not a fandom offense! i have simply expressed in the past my personal opinion on my personal blog that i don't understand anti rhetoric bc i can't fathom investing so much time and energy into hatred of a fictional person lmao. but again, the issue is not from properly tagged content, it's from the anons who show up and try to interrogate me about how i can possibly ship kataang and also appreciate zuko,, like hello?? people can have different opinions?? you don't see me going into anyone's inboxes like that, tf 😂 fandom etiquette 101

3) you're right that most kataang shippers don't care what other people ship! my expressing discomfort with a very small portion of the atla fandom does not negate the fact that i love kataang. maybe this is crazy lmao, but i have the range to be uncomfortable with rude anons and anti content (the latter of which is a personal squick and again! if it's appropriately tagged, evidently not what im referring to) while simultaneously acknowledging that a majority of the kataang fandom is a wonderful place. like, i wouldn't make so much kataang content if i hated the fandom hello 😂

4) that's the thing - i have gotten numerous anons who rudely insist that they don't think it's possible for me to ship kataang and also like other aang and katara ships. so you're damn right, i do have a problem with the harassment that i (and some of friends who actually only ship kataang!) have received. i am sure you can understand why it's both hurtful and frustrating for someone to tell me i can't possibly appreciate kataang just because i have other ships for those characters, too. so yes, idc what people do on their personal blogs, but you're damn right i feel hurt when people show up on my blog and criticize what is literally a fun hobby for me. it's unwanted, unnecessary, and im tired of it

5) you're right, that is ludicrous, and i have never once stated that. in fact, i always emphasize the importance of curating one's own online experience! i only have a problem when those people (and others) accuse me of taking positions i have never taken, insist i can't enjoy kataang bc i like zuko and/or other katara and aang ships, and continually harass myself and my friends for it. which like,, im sure you can sympathize 😂

6) im inclined to agree it's only a few different people writing those anons. they need to get a hobby lmaooo

7) a person who hates zuko is not the problem, the problem is a person who hates zuko harassing myself and others. it is quite simple. (which is clearly not your friend, btw!! i appreciate them tagging appropriately 💕)

i hope this provides the clarification you seek, my friend! i appreciate your honesty and your willingness to seek understanding and further information when you recognized you weren't getting the full picture 💛 have a great day!!

[myinterestsvary-writes]

I've never stalked the Zutara tag ever, though I've stalked the anti-Kataang tag and went into the Kataang tag to cleanse my soul of those horrible misinterpretations afterwards. It's so frustrating seeing people trying so hard to invalidate and criticize Kataang's romantic development for sometimes shallow reasons of Aang being 12 and bald (with her being 14 which isn't even bad as their maturity levels is met in different instances often times ((yet maturity is subjective as well, which is the same situation for a lot of especially divisive topics)), plus they're both kids anyways and katara herself is obviously not a shallow person) and also with them having minor disagreements that contrary to popular belief, as a testament in showing how xxx is superior to it, is resolved between them civily (might I add since they've always loved and respected one another) or resolving the issue by themselves, alone and internally leading to a resolution lining up with each other's core values anyways - further showcasing their compatibility as even when separated they're compatible AND thinking of one another.

Why a lot of us ship Kataang is because we consider both Aang's and Katara's perspectives in the relationship in terms of how it fits into canon and how it relates to it overall, not in how we believe it could add to it, but by giving reason in justifying the canonization.

They had most of the series primarily focusing on their relationship...

No wonder so many Kataang shippers are so angry sometimes despite our ship having so called "won", it's because it's like people refuse to see things due to painfully obvious biases that won't be thoroughly admitted in a way similar to this, "I ship xxx because I just like it better but I guess I could see where the author was coming from when they made xxx happen."

Plenty people feel the need to tear down one ship in order to continuing shipping their own. Not because they genuinely believe it's because it's a bad ship which is fine, but not really when you aggressively vouch that xxx was robbed.

All I need to do is watch ATLA to see why they would get together and stay together instead of keeping on with twisted and bitter interpretations of why other characters should've gotten together instead. That, I'll repeat, further enables the need to dismantle canon aspects of the show for it to work, mind you...

If I can watch ATLA, see where fans of other ships are coming from on why they ship what they ship, yet still like my own ship just as much, so can you. The reason why this fandom sucks so bad is because a lot of us are narrowminded and don't remind ourselves that it all just comes down to personal taste.

What you see that isn't validated by the narrative isn't objective fact in terms of story, and that's okay. Please take off your shipping goggles.

P.S. even if I do acknowledge you Kataang shippers' anger, it doesn't mean you're allowed to "bully" or whatever other opposing shippers, namely Zutara fans, for what you deem bad takes. Even if they've been bullying you guys firstly and you believe it's only just to start standing up for yourself finally. (No one can bully you without your consent by the way.) Different opinions and interpretations are fine otherwise, so long as they don't result in horrible acts of harrassment toward anyone because of it.

Criticism shouldn't result in any hatred in a (objectively) harmless aspect of the story and full on rejection of it in favor of an entirely different idea but instead discussion on how to make that certain aspect better for you personally. I'm not even trying to be a hypocrite, invalidating this entire post, with this closing statement. I just believe it'll lead to healthier discussions.

[i-d-e-g-a-f]

first of all, i never said all zukka shippers do.

if you think zutara shippers are worse, so be it. that is your opinion, although i disagree, you are entitled to it.

i never brought ethnicity, sexuality, or any of that into this. i know someone who replied did but direct that criticism at them in a reply, don't reblog and insinuate that i did that.

also zutara having "just two episodes with much less chemistry" isnt going to stop me from shipping them, just like zukka having "just two episodes with much less chemistry" won't stop you. also just because one ship is canon doesn't mean another ship has less chemistry. the amount of chemistry characters have is up to each individual's interpretation. i have my reasons for disliking kataang and preferring zutara's dynamic.

i was annoyed with that specific commenter for actin like zukka is super underground and as if they were opening my eyes, not all zukka shippers, next.

i will complain about zukka shippers that i feel are annoying and or toxic all i want thank you very much. that does not mean im complaining about every zukka shipper, im complainig about the ones who act in a certain way.

i never said there aren't zutara shippers who act similarly, but seeing as i am a zutara shipper, i dont typically get them acting like that towards me. i tend to have worse experience with zukka and kataang shippers so of course im going to fucking complain. you are just as entitled to vent about zutara shippers that do things that bother you.

not to mention, even if anti-kataangers commenting their arguments on a kataang post is out of pocket, that doesn't mean the arguments are automatically horrible. there are plenty of valid reasons to dislike kataang. this obviously doesnt excuse people commenting those arguments on posts that dont concern them.

im well aware that all fandoms have annoying parts, so im well within my right to complain abt the parts that affect and annoy me?

youd say yours is fairly miniscule because the toxic areas dont target you. its entirely perspective.

the next part is a lot to unpack, firstly, who the FUCK brough up sexualizing children?? second of all, give me an actual statistic not one you just made up off the top of your head jesus christ. look i can say that to. and at least 80% of us don't sexualize CHILDREN. that doesnt mean it's true since there is no evidence to support or debunk the statement.

can you not use oversimplified reasons as to why we ship zutara as an "argument." you are employing the use of a logical fallacy (the straw man argument) so lets cut that shit out. furthermore i never insulted your or anyone else's reasons for shipping zukka so if you could give me the same respect thanks. if the person who replied did insult your reasons you have every right to argue with them, but i did no such thing so its honestly just rude. this post is specifically about SOME (not all, because you need to clarification) zukka shippers act towards zutara shippers, not about which one is the "better" ship.

idek how you got "sokka is annoying" from my post, i never said that he is literally my favorite character.

trying to convert people is fine, but i clearly stated my opinions and it was annoying and condescending for the commenter to insinuate that i mustve never heard of zukka which is why i ship zutara. its assuming i dont have my own valid critical reasons. furthermore its rude to try and convert smo to a ship under a post that literally opposes the ship. thats just fucking rude. its like walking into a synagogue and being like "hey judaism is cool, but you should try catholicism." there is a god damn time and place.

i never came for all of you. the post is clearly about a certain type of zukka shipper sorry if you took it to be about all of you even though, once again, i never said it was all of you, but i apologize if i wasnt clear enough. rereading my tags i can see why you took it that why but i was referring to a specific type of shipper, not all. if it was all of you, i wouldve said all of you.

another day another zukka shipper talking about their ship under a post that had nothing to do with it.

wow! that is great for u! but who asked.

the og comment for reference

i feel like i’m upset over nothing but honestly it’s just so annoying

[tarisilmarwen]

You tagged Kataang, you're gonna get an honest opinion from a Kataang shipper. I'm only speaking for myself officially but if you bother to ask around, you can probably get similar opinions.

For starters, Kataang was not forced. Not in the least. Was it obvious that they liked each other and was the ship blatantly shipteased during the show? Yes. Yes it was. That's not the same thing as being forced.

Their relationship was always meant to be platonic friendship blossoming into love. The "maternal" aspect you harp about has everything to do with Katara as a character and how she relates to the people she cares about. If they have that type of personality, girlfriends and wives can "mother" their significant others and it has nothing to do with them literally intending to be a mother figure and everything to do with how they demonstrate love.

I know this because I basically am Katara when it comes to my husband and I fuss and fret over him exactly like how Katara does Aang. It's a thing and it happens.

Katara was not a mother figure for Aang. This interpretation has ALWAYS been wrong.

She just worries over him in a way that's consistent with her nurturing motherly personality.

Second, Aang and Katara's relationship was almost completely innocent all the way through. That was the main selling point. The whole reason Zutarians rejected it in the early fandom days was because it wasn't hot enough, wasn't sexy enough or physically appealing enough, wasn't exciting and spicy enough so I'm *very* amused by this idea that Kataang is now too "lustful".

They kissed. It's not that scandalous.

The fanart they made fun of Zutarians with was done by older teens and young adults. Still douchey, but let's not infantalize the fandom here.

Tokka was never meant to go anywhere or be anything but a cute one-sided crush on Toph's end. Sokka was never going to cheat on Suki with her what the hell.

Lastly, I actually did try to see the Zutara potential when I first joined the fandom. I knew vaguely about the shipwar and the main factions thereof going in, and I guess I was curious to see what Zutarians were seeing to be so big and popular. And I was surprised and confused by the utter LACK of textual substance for them. Like, there wasn't even anything I could point to to say, "Okay, I see what they could be getting it from." And none of the most popular interpretations of the ship appealed to me, so I couldn't even enjoy it in a fanon sense either.

You might not have intended your post as hate but you still came into the Kataang tag calling our ship gross and weird and badly written so I honestly don't know how else we're supposed to take it. We all already KNOW how antis think about our ship. We don't think the same. We don't CARE. We don't want to hear it again. We just want to be left in goddamn peace to ship our ship without this kind of over-repeated baseless crap smacking us in the face every time we go into OUR OWN DAMN SPACES to reblog some cute fanart or gifsets.

Take your juvenile "Ew gross!" opinion out of the tag. No one here is interested it it.

Okay, to the Kataangers out there...

Look, I’m not gonna bash any ship. I do believe that some ships CAN work. To me, I don’t think Kataang could work because of how it was originally going to be handled. And I don’t think Bryke handled it any better. In fact, they DESTROYED that pairing, nay, the relationship, more than they destroyed Zutara. 

Again, I think some ships could work. Even ones that I don’t like, they could work! I’m really more of a Taang guy, but I do see the potential or other pairings. So I’m not really on the Zutara bandwagon or anything(I mean, I like it, but I’m not crazy for it), but I DO see the potential in it. I can SEE that it could work. 

Now, if Kataang was handled differently, then I could probably see it happening. Like, say if Aang was 13, and Katara was 14. Maybe if Aang was a little more mature for his age(who would still be 13), or something. Maybe if they were WRITTEN differently, I could see it. 

But Bryke just rushed it and forced the pairing on us like it was obvious. And to me, I don’t really like obvious pairings that beat me over the head. OKAY, we GET IT, you two(Bryke) like this pairing…but may I ask ‘why’? The show’s first two seasons obviously was supposed to handle their relationship in a familial AND maternal way…but all of sudden they start making out? That’s…kind of a strange transition for me. To me, it felt like Bryke wanted this…fantasy of a 12-year-old boy making out with an older girl. Which I have nothing against relationships with age gaps, but…they portrayed the relationship like it’s…kind of lustful? Which is…um…kind of gross?

Look, I would be all for Kataang if it was structured better, but…to me, it wasn’t. I mean, if you’re a Kataanger, cool, ship it. But you got to at LEAST see SOME potential for Zutara. And we’re leaving off the Zutara fans for a second. Let’s talk about the ACTUAL pairing. You got to admit, it’s kind of beautiful. It COULD work. But of course, Bryke didn’t want that. Which…okay, I guess that’s alright, but could you maybe at LEAST made them friends? You made them kind of distant with each other. I mean, my gosh, the least you could do is let them have a friendly ‘hi!’ or a ‘hello!’ towards each other. I mean…honestly, the way Bryke wrote these two characters interactions now, all because of a shipping preference, is really shallow.

Also, you HAVE to admit that what Bryke did at the 2008(I think?) Comic-Con, where they used Zutara fanart, made by KIDS(and I’m talking like 7 to 8 year-olds, probably), just so they can mock and make fun of their shipping preference(and act like it’s totally fine to make fun of their YOUNGER FANS, who DREW THESE DRAWINGS with love and care, and probably not thinking about any shipping war that was going on at the time), was absolutely CHILDISH and UNCOOL. Like honestly, who does that? They’re your fans! Act like actual grown adults, Bryke. 

And like I said in my last post, I’m not bashing Bryke anymore, it’s too tiresome. But I WILL call them out on what they did WRONG.

But the point is, even though you don’t like a pairing, can you at LEAST see the potential? Again, I like Taang, but I don’t like Tokka(sorry about that). However…I GUESS I can see the appeal? To me, though, it’s just that Sokka already has Suki as his girlfriend, and he’s going to cheat on her for a 12 year-old-girl? That’s…kind of creepy. 

Look, I’m not trying to change people’s mind on who they should ship. It’s just that I don’t see Kataang or Maiko ever being realistic relationships because they were written so poorly. And I’m sorry to say that. It’s just what I think. And really, Aaron Ehasz was the head writer, not Bryke. They CAME UP with the idea, but Aaron was the one who wrote memorable moments in the series. 

But again, I’m just asking if you at least see any potential in Zutara? I mean, I admit that Kataang, if handled differently, could’ve been a good pairing…but what was supposed to be an almost mother/son relationship was butchered beyond belief by two guys who wanted to see their sick fantasies come true(sorry if that sounded harsh, but it does to me feel like they were making a ‘boy’s makeout section with his babysitter’ dream come to life here).

And again, just to clarify, I’m a Taang fan. I do like Zutara, but I’m not hardcore for it. 

So…yeah, I’m just trying to be mature here. Don’t hate me or anything, I’m just being honest with what I say and ask. :(

[EDIT: Okay, someone said that I should untag the Kataang tag, and when I think about it, that person is right. But I need to ask them that question and be honest, so…yeah, I guess I kind of need to erase that. Sorry about that. :( ]