#hotd shipping wars

[bohemian-nights]

HOTD is a show about how an incestuous family both f*cks and fights one another over the want and sometimes need for power. Majority of them also have at their disposal personal nuke devices also knows as dragons that combined with the fact that they’ve got white hair (book wise purple eyes too but we’re talking about the show) gives just about each and every person born into the family god complexes. That being said I don’t seriously ship any of the couples that we’ve seen thus far from HOTD seeing as how a. both participants usually have the same last name b. i find the age-gap between the two unflattering or c. i'm not the biggest fan of one or both of the participants.

In conclusion I think ship wars in the HOTD/GOT fandom are stupid and make me question the morals of those who ship them lol 🤷🏾‍♀️🤣

No I feel you. Realistically no one should be bashing someone else’s ship from a moralistic standpoint because almost every ship is problematic to varying degrees.

Like these are show(s) with ships that deal with incest, abuse, sadistic people, and insane power dynamics, yet some people are going no you can’t ship that. That ship is wrong. You’re a pervert, stop it. My ship may be just as problematic, in fact it’s more problematic, but you’re disgusting.

These people look utterly ridiculous when they say that crap.

Don’t get me wrong, there are some who I do think are taking it way too far(I’m looking at you Dumbnyra stans who like to draw baby Rhaenyra with Daemon🤢), but we all live in glass houses.

*Before anyone tries it I go after Dumbnyra stans because you guys keep taking it too far and won’t acknowledge you are continuously going over the line. No one should “trigger” you to the point where you bring in real-life racism and use that to bash characters you dislike then deny said racism because you can handle when you the heat.

[clonehub]

For the purposes of this poll, ship and let ship means you don't care what people ship; everything is fair game. Some might refer to you as "pro ship".

If you think certain things shouldn't be shipped, if you apply morals to what you or others ship, and/or you do care, then answer "no".

You define white for yourself.

No results option bc you either pick or you don't.

Please reblog for sample size.

[synchodai]

When I say Tyland Lannister is my favorite character...

I am being 100% dead serious. Here is why I prefer this seemingly average nobleman over the many many many fan favorites in Fire and Blood.

Tyland Lannister is a second son in a story about second sons. Whether his feelings on this are as strong as Aemond's or Daemon's, we never know for sure in the books, but it's obvious that he's subservient to a mirror image of himself who only has more authority because of a few seconds separation between twins. It's a great display of both the arbitrariness and rigidity of succession.

His initial role in the Dance is as the master of coin for the greens. He's depicted as a typical Lannister: charming, comely, and cunning. He did what any savvy accountant would do and divided the crown's treasury amongst different allied regions for safe-keeping, ensuring that if King's Landing were sacked, their enemies wouldn't loot their coffers dry and they'd still have plenty of gold for their war efforts.

And of course, King's Landing gets sacked. Tyland is put in the black cells and ordered to be tortured by Rhaenyra to extract the gold's whereabouts. Winter is coming, people are starving and rioting, her army is dwindling, so she desperately needs that gold. Tyland is gelded, maimed, disfigured, and blinded but the torturers get nothing out of him.

Mind you, this man has been a rich, pampered bureaucrat all his life and he endured all that without breaking. When Aegon II releases Tyland from those cells, he has no fingernails, his eyes have been gouged out and/or sewn shut, this man who was once known for his good looks doesn't look human anymore — but he still manages to maintain his wits so much so that he plays an important role after the Dance.

Even with Rhaenyra dead, there are still armies raising their banners for her eldest surviving son, Aegon Trois. Tyland tells Adult Aegon to kill Child Aegon because obviously, the latter threatens the former's claim and Tyland's understandably angry over what his mom did. Aegon Dos is like, nah, I'll keep the boy hostage instead — that'll keep the armies at bay more than outright killing him.

So Tyland volunteers to go to Myr to hire sellswords for Aegon 2 since their armies are pretty much kaput after six years of this civil war. Tyland is blind at this point I remind you — there is a huge chance this man will never get to go home again. But he does it anyway, because even after years of fighting, he keeps his unwavering loyalty to the monarch he declared for.

Aegon II dies while Tyland is in Myr, and Tyland goes back to Westeros just in time to see Cregan Stark use his powers as the new Hand to marry Aegon III and Princess Jaehaera to unite the green and black sides. Cregan dusts off his hands, says my work here is done, warns the boy king not to trust anyone, then leaves for the North for everyone else to sort this mess out.

Now comes the part where Tyland shines as a character. He becomes the Hand of Aegon III and when you see his policies detailed in the book, it's clear that his goal is focused on repairs and renumerations. After what happened to him, he has every right to be spiteful and bitter against the blacks, but instead he "claimed a curious failure of memory, insisting that he could not recall who had been black and who had been green." He abolished the heavy taxes imposed on the smallfolk, sent out gold to lords whose holdings had been devastated during war, and set out to rebuild the Realm's granaries and fleet. Cleaning up is a tedious, unglamorous job — and because of his monstrous appearance and former allegiances, Tyland was looked upon with distrust.

And yet, while other regents grasped for power and tried taking advantage of the 13-year-old King Aegon III, Tyland seemed to be different. If he wanted power he could have married his twin brother's widow and convinced the boy-king to route more resources towards Casterly Rock and the Westerlands. But he didn't.

Instead, he genuinely seemed to be a father figure to Aegon III.

Tyland Lannister, blind and crippled, had always treated the king with deference, speaking to him gently, seeking to guide rather than command.

And for that, many lords saw him as a weak Hand. But Aegon, who cared for very little and never laughed and was always sullen, seemed to care for Tyland.

When the plague ravaged King's Landing, Tyland dutifully prioritized it over quashing the Ironborn raids at Lannisport. He was the last person to become afflicted with the Winter Fever, and the king sat by his Hand's side during his final hours. When the council starts discussing who should be the new Hand, Aegon (the boy who rarely ever speaks) says:

I would have Lord Rowan as my Hand. Ser Tyland thought well enough of him to offer him my sister’s hand in marriage, so I know he can be trusted.

This boy trusted Tyland, the man who only years ago wanted him dead.

So it's easy to imagine that this man saw Aegon III as the boy he was responsible for, as the son he could never have because of what the war had done to him. Tyland Lannister was a broken man who despite losing everything, his king and his brother and himself, kept a broken Realm and broken boy together when everyone else swarmed like vultures just trying to pick at carcasses.

What motivated this man's loyalty for a boy whose mother mutilated him? Did he regret pushing for the death of an innocent child and this was his penance? Did this man who gave everything for his cause think that this boy was something that could still give all that sacrifice and tragedy meaning? Was the mercy and kindness he afforded an apology for the horrifying trauma that scarred this boy — did he feel responsible for his mother's downfall and the failure to save his uncle? Did his disfigurement and blindness allow him to let go of the man he once was and become someone capable of seeing the folly of pride and power?

Here is his obituary in Fire and Blood:

Ser Tyland Lannister had never been beloved. After the death of Queen Rhaenyra, he had urged Aegon II to put her son Aegon to death as well, and certain blacks hated him for that. Yet after the death of Aegon II, he had remained to serve Aegon III, and certain greens hated him for that. Coming second from his mother’s womb, a few heartbeats after his twin brother, Jason, had denied him the glory of lordship and the gold of Casterly Rock, leaving him to make his own place in the world. Ser Tyland never married nor fathered children, so there were few to mourn him when he was carried off. The veil he wore to conceal his disfigured face gave rise to the tale that the visage underneath was monstrous and evil. Some called him craven for keeping Westeros out of the Daughters’ War and doing so little to curb the Greyjoys in the west. By moving three-quarters of the Crown’s gold from King’s Landing whilst Aegon II’s master of coin, Tyland Lannister had sown the seeds of Queen Rhaenyra’s downfall, a stroke of cunning that would in the end cost him his eyes, ears, and health, and cost the queen her throne and her very life. Yet it must be said that he served Rhaenyra’s son well and faithfully as Hand.

Tyland wasn't extraordinarily badass, noble, or even skilled. He was an excellent politician but no way the best. But I think that's what makes him compelling to me — that he's this down-to-earth depiction of a POW, a war veteran by all accounts, trying to pick up the pieces and slowly glue what remains of the Realm and himself back into something vaguely human.

We tell so many stories about the glory, the tragedy, and the losses of war. But I think it's important and beautiful to tell stories of those bravely and optimistically choosing to keep living in the aftermath as well.

[sukibenders]

Racism and misogynoir are so apparent in fandom, especially when it comes to shipping because why is it when a white male, sometimes female but I see it more with the former, character is on screen with a love interest, particularly woc, especially if they're black, and even with all the emotional scenes or just moments where they look at one another in ways different from the rest, it's met with "No, they aren't dating/the show is not going to put them together" but let the other love interest be white as well and suddenly it all makes sense? Heck, the examples I mentioned above don't even have to exist between the latter for some to STILL go and believe this rhetoric (eg. some Jace and Helaena shippers because, even if these two only interacted with a dance but yet we see Baela console Jace, after he seeks her out, apparently it's to far fetched to believe that Jacela could be a thing?!)

Sometimes it could be a headcanon that, largely, would make sense (and oftentimes was birth due to lack of respect that the poc characters could have been given by the writers *cough* TVD *cough*), and yet you'd still have people dismissing it left and right and spewing hate. At a HEADCANON! And I'm not saying that just because the other person in the ship is poc that you have to ship them, I'm not, but it's very apparent to many poc fans in fandom that unless the characters are swapping spit and doing the nasty, the possibility of them being viewed in any romantic lens feels too much of stretch even though their white counterparts don't have to jump through the same loops.

[laststandx3]

Tyland lannister being like: ugh 😫 i hate the 😎 beach🏖️ and 🧆exotic 🍖food 🍱and mud fights 💪 and 👩‍❤️‍💋‍👨fucking❤️ women💃. why 😖 mee gods??😩 why mee??😭

[linaartsblogsworld]

▪️𝑴𝑨𝑴𝑨'𝑺 𝑩𝑶𝒀𝑺 𝑺𝒆𝒓𝒊𝒆𝒔 :𝐑𝐡𝐚𝐞𝐧𝐲𝐬 𝐓𝐚𝐫𝐠𝐚𝐫𝐲𝐞𝐧 (𝐓𝐐𝐖𝐍𝐖 ) 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐋𝐚𝐞𝐧𝐨𝐫 𝐕𝐞𝐥𝐚𝐫𝐲𝐨𝐧💧

[alicent-archive]

We Rhaenicent warriors may have lost the battle of canon but we really won the war because "Rhaenicent" is SUCH a pretty ship name.

[whorefordaemon]

At this point, I want nothing more than Daemon to become the very monster Rhaenyra so insists on calling him. If she's so smart, so wise and right then let her manage her own shit. We've seen how *capable* she was the 10 years Daemon let her do her own thing. She was fucking useless and an idiot. All the support and love from daddy meant absolutely nothing in the end. If this grown arse supposedly wise woman can't get it through her thick head that Viserys and Alicent and Otto are the reason behind her suffering then she honestly doesn't deserve the Throne. Daemon should leave her. This woman has brought him absolutely nothing in the end except suffering. I want to see Daemon thoroughly regret his decision to stay for this woman. I want him to look at her and realize she never loved him. Even Viserys at least loved him enough let him be in peace. Rhaenyra cannot even give him that. This woman has a problem with EVERYTHING. He could stay, he could leave, he could fight, he could not fight, he could help, he could not help. It doesn't matter what he does, he's always going to be the villain in her eyes. He should just give up and move on from her.

He can be her fighter, her attack dog, protect her kids and kiss her feet. But I wish there was a scene when Daemon tells her he doesn't love her, same as she never loved him. Daemon can and does move on. He's strong like that. He doesn't stay when someone makes it clear they don't want him. He chose death over returning to her and that says everything. I like that he never even sent her a letter or anything, finally realised she isn't even worth trying to explain anything to cause she's fucking stupid.

Rhaenyra can go to whomever she thinks is better than Daemon. She deserves nothing from him honestly. She could have just let him go and atleast saved Baela and Rhaena from her stupidity.

[an3-lim]

LOOKING FOR SHIP AND NEW FANDOM

Since they ruined Daemyra to me ( and Emma's words added fuel to the fire 😢) I need new interesting hetero ship to cheer me up!

I'm open for any recommendations!

[bardly-working]

There are so many things about Rhaenyra and Alicent’s conversation that I love. I love the fear of it, the tension, the massive risk Rhaenyra took and the fact that Alicent didn’t turn her in. I love the love between the two of them, the affection that shines through even despite all the misery and resentment and pain. I love the fact that The Stupid Miscommunication That Causes Conflict™ (in this case, Viserys’ deathbed whispers), which so often either goes entirely unaddressed or isn’t addressed until the end of a character’s arc, is addressed so early and clarifies so much for both characters. I love the devastation as Alicent realizes that this was all a mistake, but that it’s too late to do anything about it, that without this being a war then her son is a kinslayer and her grandson is dead for no reason.

But I also love what Alicent doesn’t mention to Rhaenyra:

That this would have happened with or without Alicent, and that Otto and the small council had already been planning to usurp Rhaenyra all along. That the war would have happened either way.

Alicent leaves their meeting horrified, devastated, her belief in herself and her family shattered… letting Rhaenyra believe that this war lies solely at Alicent’s feet, that it was all Alicent’s mistake. Amazing. Tremendously messy. No notes.

[lemonhemlock]

If there has always been a mine war between Helaegon fans and Helaemond fans, the leaks have added fuel to the fire.

Since we have a side celebrating the words of Helaena and saying that she was happy before the war so the black legend created from 1x8 is false.

And the other side justifying Aemond's actions, that she should be happy because he ends up with her abuser and saying stop infantilizing Helaena who is a dragon rider, along with the phrase “She can't understand that you and I share a hidden warmth” to say that they did have a relationship and that the twins are of the two of them.

What is your opinion on this?

as i said, i haven't seen the scene so i can't say in regards to specific lines

what i can say is that helaena seems to come off super passive and uncaring from how the leaks have been retold. she gets over her son's death in a matter of weeks, holds no one accountable, is not even angry at daemon(??), doesn't even want to ride her dragon, doesn't want to rule, doesn't want to help out in any way, doesn't care that many members of her family are in mortal danger? what is the purpose of her as a character? to be a mouthpiece? she has no inner life, no human emotions and does nothing

@stannisfactions was right when she said she was bran 2.0. and people hated the show version of bran so why are they trying to recreate it?

[lady-whistledowns]

Uh-huh, we're burned for better, I vowed I would always be yours...

[precious-little-scoundrel]

Ok ok, plot and fic tangles are plentiful in my mind but the ending episode did suggest Prince Aemond got himself engaged to a Baratheon, yes? If that had worked out sans-Alys: I’ve got thots. Anyone written this? I’ve most particularly got thots about a member of House Baratheon finally mounting a damn dragon

…no not like that. Not just like that. Only partly like that…

[synchodai]

A bit of a serious question and maybe a controversial opinion. I've liked jacegan ever since I read the books. I've always thought there's a lovely strong, mutual connection between them, regardless of whether you see romantic or sexual overtones. 

And of course I was waiting for hotd to show that. And unfortunately got crumbs. But let's get to the main point. What I didn't realize when there were only books and not much has changed since the series came out. It's Jace and Baela. These two as a couple never interested me in the book or the show. And given the current agendas, fans of the Jace/Baela pairing are especially "aggressive". Because if you're a jacegan fan, you're automatically a racist and misigonist. But.... I didn't like her when she was a white canon Targaryen. I have no hatred or anything like that. The character just didn't hook me, nor did their connection to Jace. On the show, I'm sorry, Baela barely has a chance to develop as a character in season 1. Season 2 has some cool moments with her, but she's still more of an appendix to Rhaenyra and Jace. And yes, I'm sorry that such a character is neglected, as well as many other interesting characters, but given the format of the show and the number of episodes, they have to sacrifice something (the jacegan line is almost completely cut). And back to the serialized Baela and Jace. Their pairing is more of a favorable union for me. There's no spark, no love, no passion. They literally haven't seen each other in years since Rhaenys took her away. Then they met and were unexpectedly announced to be engaged. And there was a shaky situation all around. There was no room for any romance. Then the diplomatic mission, Luke dies and the whole of season 2 Jace is busy with anything but Baela. She's the one who's more of a comforter. And the rare "cute" moments are improvised by the actors who are trying to create/show some kind of relationship in place of the writers, because they are engaged. But it doesn't help, imho, for me personally. I just see two early matured people who are in a stressful situation. They support each other as best they can. I'm sure their marriage would be strong, secure because they are more like friends/family than lovers. And that is my main complaint. I'm sorry, but even in Jace and Cregan's 3 minute scene, there is more chemistry through looks than in the entire time Jace and Baela interacted. Of course that's still a matter of taste. But then again, why would anyone allow themselves to criticize another person for their tastes and hobbies? Why is it that if I'm not interested in Jace and Baela's pairing, I'm immediately misogynistic and racist, and don't support the characters' geth, but cling to white men in homosexual relationships. Like...what do you want? I don't want to be a hypocrite. I just don't care for Baela's character and her relationship with Jace in either the books or the show. That's it. 

Jace and Kregan's relationship is much more interesting, colorful, tragic and carries more meaning and love. I won't describe it in detail, because there are some great methinks on the blog. And that's it.

Wow...uh... I sincerely hope you feel better getting that off your chest, anon. Thankfully, I've never interacted with people who react negatively to my jacegan posts or fics. I'm sorry you've had that experience and thank you for taking the time and effort to share it with me. If you encounter people like that, you should really block them and not allow them access into your mental space.

If your question was what I feel about jacaela, then I don't really feel strongly about it either way? I was also neutral to jacegan until I started writing about it, to be fair. I mainly got into it because I wanted to explore the idea of Sara Snow being Jace and/or Cregan and relate that to masks, identity, and performance of masculinity/femininity/gender.

I'm willing to bet if I start a jacaela project, I'd see the merits of that ship, too. I probably won't write about show!Baela though, because she doesn't have much of a personality and seems to be more loyal to Rhaenyra than Jace? She only ever speaks for Rhaenyra's interests and never Jace's. Honestly, her one scene with Rhaenyra made me think she's more enamored with the mom than the son. When Jace was having valid issues about his legitimacy, Baela was quick to dismiss him as "pouting" even though both their lives and positions rely on the strength of his claim to the throne. It was honestly baffling. If I was gonna write for show!Baela, I'd ship her with Rhaenyra before Jace — makes a lot more sense with the text.

In the book, Baela was eager to get married to Jace and had some really compelling tension with him. Him delaying their wedding after going north? Really juicy stuff. Baela is only noted as getting more promiscuous after Jace's death (and after she was left alone in Dragonstone) — so another writer (who isn't me) could explore the conflicting emotions of feeling free of the shackles of arranged marriage while also grieving a future that Baela very likely once dreamed of. There's also the incest angle, the fact that Rhaenyra and Daemon's marriage could have only happened if the parent they both loved died, how Baela doesn't want to act like a lady/princess but Jace desperately wants to be seen as a lord/prince — lots of places a competent writer can take it for sure. It can be a great friends-to-lovers, shared trauma/mutual healing, marriage-of-convenience-turned-real kind of thing. Baela as a tsundere, Jace as an angsty anime protag.

I don't think one ship is more meaningful or loving than the other — it really depends on what you're looking for and who's writing. For now, I'm full throttle manning my current ship and I've already made so many posts about why. I'd like to think I do a good job exploring the potential of jacegan, and I am fully aware it is a ship made of crumbs, but that's the fun of it. Embrace that it's a hidden gem that you unearthed! Embrace the tinfoil.

[bohemian-nights]

I imagine they will tease nettles’ character in the 2nd season, and only flesh her out through her relationship with daemon, which is disappointing but appears to be the case. Knowing ryan he will probably make their relationship extremely sexual rather than taking into account how much she changed daemon and his prespectives about everything. Its all part of the this general idea they have to rid rhaenyra and alicent of all guilt and instead throw it at the men in the room just to call it ✨feminism✨it started with daemon abusing rhaenyra although he never did in the books, being a war mongering freak even though in the books he was careful about sending in dragons riders first, they will for sure make blood and cheese entirely his idea, streets are also saying they will make him take kingslanding alone while rhaenyra is negotiating for peace and licking alicent’s boots. So i have no doubt that they will erase his effections towards nettles because it would humanize him and they don’t want that, they will make it out to be sexually exploitative relationship and have rhaenyra scream at him for sleeping with one of the seeds instead of being a raging racist who’s simply jealous

You’d think he’d learn his lesson by now(especially since HBO did listen/was forced to feature Baela in that trailer), but if he goes this route, there is no way Black audiences will be a okay with him making Nettles into Jezebel and not say anything about it.

That man is dead wrong and should tread carefully lest he wants HOTD to get called out for their anti-Blackness once again by making another Black woman into a walking stereotype.

And the way this story is set up and with the leaks being put out, Daemon is already sleeping with other women. Missy Anne getting upset with him sleeping with Nettles, but not the other non-Black women will look nonsensical and borderline racist. Not to mention I don't see how they'll drop the part about Missy Anne trying to kill Nettles. So unless they turn Nettles into a villain(which again they'd be flamed for) she’ll still end up looking like the bad guy.

People should really think about boycotting the show(or at least only watch by bootlegging it) if this is the case.

[francy-sketches]

this argument pisses me off so bad bc yes laena was treated like shit by the writers but no they didn't 'strip her from her canon relationship with Rhaenyra and give it to some white woman' bc they have nothing in common except being friends with an implied romantic relationship. They could have easily had them both it's not like rhaenyra can't have more than one friend lol. Like yea we should absolutely criticize the writers' treatment of laena but I only ever see people bring her up to hate on a character/ship they dont like it's so annoying