#he had to sacrifice himself in one way or another

[katerinaaqu]

Gosh thank you so much! 💓

He absolutely is and love him or hate him he deserves much more credit in my opinion than just talking about his sex life all the time because boy oh boy this guy has so much going on in his head that the more I analyze him the more I delve into this complex psychology of, in the end of the day, young man who died away from home, buried away from home for a war that was not his to fight and for the sakes of honor that is imposed upon him

Sure he did many things. He performed many atrocities sure. But just like a kid that is a bully at school one can look at his life and realize he was from abusive household. Does that cancel the bad action of bulling? Hell no but one can still sympathize with one's situation and I think Achilles is a good example of that. And yes it is interesting if you look at it spherical right? We see a man that drags a corpse from his chariot. Terrible disrespectful and undoubtedly criminal. Do we see it from the option of madness of a person who was taken down by grief when THE ONLY PERSON he relied on completely is gone? Immediately we have a new horizon without canceling the act!

Oh he absolutely was and that is another thing. For this honor of his he was ready to do anything and yet the way he was introduced to war was brutal for anyone. He was ready to fight a war yes and yet we have so many cases that were so brutal like the case of Iphigenia and human sacrifice and of course the intrigues and such so Achilles was only slipping more and more!

So true "blood stained his fair hands" is so true and ironically that was the case with Neoptolemus too if we think on how Sophocles portrays him as young man and all and even Odysseus in Homer says how capable Neoptolemus was and all so yes indeed although I should say the only thing he ended up caring too little was his own life. For all others he just cares too much. He might have appeared uncaring for Greeks for a little while but it was also because he cared too much for his own honor for that and man then he was definitely blaming himself deep down!

Oh for sure one could speak on that for Neoptolemus. Although his problem was the absence of father rather than overprotective one (although I do think Achilles would do the opposite of his parents and same at the same time. He would think and care too much but he would strategically stop himself from holding his son as far as he can throw him) but for sure the essence of expectations definitely circled Neoptolemus who felt he had to be greater than his father and fill his big shoes and all so for sure we can talk on this concept in here and even if Neoptolemus had a longer chance in life but man he surely too died young and from consequences of his own actions as well and that was also an interesting piece of information for it. And the way he found his end over an altar as some sort of poetic justice

Absolutely I have no doubt Achilles cared deeply thus asking on his family on Odysseus if he had any information on them from his trips but yes his absence to war undoubtedly has marked Neoptolemus.

Achilles being who he is could be a subject of his upbringing (and how CONTEMPORARY his case seems if one thinks of it!) - an Analysis

Soooo I got an amazing ask today here and got inspired for some random thoughts here!

Has anyone noticed that Achilles's complicated psychology might as well be a result of his upbringing and how incredibly MODERN his case can be? Think about it;

He was prophesied he would die early. His family of course was concerned about it (how similar it is to children born with terminal illnesses nowadays indeed!)

His mother was already worried given how she was immortal and she was already worried her son was mortal much more when she found out he would be short-lived

His father cared enough to fight his goddess wife but also to send him to Chiron, the man who was known to train the best heroes in hope that his son would get the best education but also be prepared for every terrible situation in his life

His mother dressed him up as a woman and hid him among women so that he would live

His father promised his hair to a river god in hope that he would escape his ill fate (how similar to parents who want their child to go for treatment abroad even if they know it is hopeless!)

One can say Achilles is a child ill-fated, already people overly-indulge him because of his natural talents but also his ill fate. He got his life settled for him one way or another. Built skills as spherical as possible (arguably even for his mother's charade he learnt some female roles as well!), he had the best education as a golden child (from the art of war till music and all) and exceeded in all but also he had his family always worried of him. He even had a companion by his side at all occasions to make sure nothing would happen to him. Arguably his withdrawal to Chiron in nature also shielded Achilles to remain pure from the intrigues of palaces, from actual talks of violence and war WHILE being prepared for war just in case he would need to use it!

But also if one thinks of it...

Achilles was a child of divorced parents. Thetis abandoned the already bad for her marriage with Peleus. Peleus who attacked her with accusations that she would hurt her own child, for example in Argonautica, when he saw her hold the child over the flames to make him immortal. His family loved him;

And yet his parents abandoned him one way or another in his young mind!

His mother abandoned him in Phthia when she divorced his father

His father abandoned him to Chiron to get education

Abandonment pattern became apparent in Achilles's life! Both his parents loved him he knew that very well. Both parents wanted to protect him almost to a suffocating degree. They shielded him from violence and all that could potentially bring violence such as intrigues and plans but they also prepared him for the worst all his life while his father was telling him to always aim for being noble.

Achilles learnt by them to care and love to almost an unhealthy degree. He could see people who loved him abandoned him! He was trying his best to be the golden child, the honorable one. The one who would bring pride to his noble father and his goddess mother and his god ancestors. And yet he felt people who loved him unconditionally abandoned him! No wonder he clang to Patroclus. He was the only person that would stick around; he was following him. He was his family, his friend, his companion, his squire and his everything basically. His love for him was unconditional. Achilles also probably expected that Patroclus would never abandon him; he would die after him!

Achilles was introduced to violence way too soon, way too quickly and way too definitive!

He was sent to conflict very quickly

He saw first hand how blasphemy affects humans

He witnessed a human sacrifice (or the attempt of it depending on the source)

He saw intrigue arguably for the first time in his shielded life

He caused a lot of slaughter at a bloody war that wasn't even his business

He had his honor, the one he was fighting SO HARD to maintain for it would be the only thing left of him

And finally he lost that ONE PERSON he was sure he wouldn't leave him all alone! And he lost him because of HIS DECISION to send him in his place!

No wonder how he broke down eventually. His mind which was already at a limbo state because of the expectations he felt he was carrying on his shoulders in combination to the overly protective love he received from his parents. He simply collapsed!

He committed all the atrocities one could expect a person pure as him wouldn't commit;

He wished other people harm even if he had a personal grudge against one person

He refused the heroic ideal in order to go home

He fell into an absolute emotional collapse when he lost Patroclus clasping a dead body for DAYS (miasma) and wouldn't allow anyone to bury him (technically disrespect for the dead)

He went to blind rage and killed many for the name of his lost companion

Utterly disrespected the dead by dragging Hector's body around with the aim of absolutely destroying them

Barrage of human sacrifices before or even after his death

Possibly attempt of rape of Troilus and his killing over an altar

Achilles seems to have completely broken down to every single thing his family wanted to prevent him from! It was as if all the sins he was taught to avert were introduced to him all at once and that was catastrophic for his mind and eventually Patroclus's death was the final stroke for his already fragile psychology! I feel like these ancient writers knew what psychology was before psychology was a thing because man! One can get mind-blown every single time!

Next time someone says that these ancient poems are "out of date" or that they are "not connected to our reality" please think of stuff like this! I mean how can one get more contemporary than that!?

My other analysis on Achilles: Achilles and Patroclus relationship "Devil's advocate" reasons (under a post by @justvea18) On Achilles being on the edge On silence and Achilles's expression of emotion (inspired by @deadbaguette)

To gather some more Achilles potential squad: @hermesmoly , @h0bg0blin-meat , @deadbaguette , @greeknerdsstuff , @smokey07 , @wolfythewitch , @achillesisnotcomingdown , @emmikay , @superkooku , @captnbunnie , @ri-dumb-fck , @hymnoeides , @cynicalclairvoyantcadaver , @venomspecs , @roachcicle , @mt-isnothere12 , @mythology-lover , @mythology-loving-lee , @kindred-spirit-93 , @dionysism , @margaretkart

If I forget someone forgive me please join us!!!! Also please join the profile of my friend @yararts for other type of amazing stuff!

[deusvervewrites]

First of all: Happy Birthday Deus!

Secondly, I have more thoughts about the whole "The Villain must Die" thing. You already allude to it in your original post, but one of the reasons that people tend to dislike it is definitely the fact that, if they were to acknowledge & accept it, they feel they would also have to "blame" themselves for liking "bad" media that does not follow this "rule".

You point out Star Wars, so some people will simply read this as "If you enjoyed Star Wars, specifically Palpatine dying, YOU ARE A BAD PERSON!"

Which is not what you said, (and I assume not what you meant) but some people will just read this into things, and feel like they have failed some invisible "vibe check" or something by liking the "wrong" media, and it all starts becoming some weird purity test even if it's often only in peoples head.

Like, stop reinventing Catholicism over here, stories can have different meanings and lessons, and one single thing doesn't mean that the story is no forever tainted and everyone who ever liked it should be branded as evil or some-such nonsense.

To use an extreme example, Metal Gear Rising Revengeance very VERY much kills its villains. It also has a very strong and important message about politics and ideology and how people justify atrocities in it. It's a different kind of story with a different kind of message compared to things like BNHA. Also, it even implies itself that the protagonist might have been wrong in killing his enemies, the fact that he did so anyway and that that was the only way he could see is a flaw that the game directly points out! So good news, liking MGR doesn't make you "bad" just as liking SU or BNHA doesn't mark you as inherently "good" or "righteous".

People need to take a step back and consider that not everything is an attack on them or what they like. Good stories are allowed to have flaws. Because most of them do. Any you are still allowed to like them. That's also fine. You can even like something and criticize it anyway, that's allowed!

This is getting long, so I want to end with another example that helped me realize how much I love villains surviving:

Fairy Tail, and the Arc of Jellal. Long Story short, when we first meet Jellal he is THE WORST. Absolute scum of the earth, sadistic maniacal supervillain that, inevitably, ends up blown up in a big anime battle.

Except, nope, ~2 arcs later, he is back, with amnesia, and involved in some other villains plot. Over the course of the arc he works with the heroes but then regains his memory and is utterly devastated to learn who he was in the past, to the point that he tries to noble suicide sacrifice himself to stop the villain. It does not stop the villain, but he still wants to go through with it to "atone", until the hero that he had hurt to most slaps him in the face and yells at him to Live and Struggle.

Because his death wont change anything. It wont heal those he hurt, or revive those he killed. He can only make up for this, only truly become better, by living.

And, spoiler, he does not sacrifice himself, but instead starts to go on a long and arduous and messy journey of atonement and it absolutely rocks. It makes him and his story a million times better than if he had died.

Anyways, sorry for the second wall of text I send you today, once again, Happy Birthday and best wishes!

One of the many things I love about Metal Gear Rising Revengeance's dialogue on the nature of violence is that, as you said, Raidon loses the moral victory at the end. When he kills Senator Armstrong, Armstrong names Raidon as the inheritor of his ideals that Might Makes Right. The entire game shows Raidon martyring himself by sacrificing his morals in an effort to save lives, implicitly comparing this to real-world warfare

[yoroshiu]

Sora: Self-Esteem, Or Lack Thereof

I legit got struck with many thoughts when I woke up and decided to write an essay instead of going back to sleep. As in, this one's another long one ToT

Making Kingdom Hearts Stuff Until KH4 Comes Out (Day 13)

This is a topic that has been brought up a lot as of late but I found myself wanting to talk about it after reading some comments from some KH videos I was watching.

Specifically in Sora’s sacrifice scene in KH1 and his breakdown scene in KH3, it was interesting to see people say that they had just realized how low his self-esteem actually is, and I thought to myself, it must be interesting for them to look back and see how far back this feeling goes for him. I had my own thoughts as a result.

Sora grew up in Riku’s shadow. In the words of both of them, they agreed on the belief that Riku was the better one between them. It makes sense that Sora from the get-go had already taken blows to his self-confidence.

This is only added onto when it’s revealed that Sora was “just the delivery boy” for Riku, leading to the loss of the keyblade (which, for one, alongside the title of “Hero of the Keyblade” gave him a lot of confidence/assurance) and Donald and Goofy. This is a moment that stuck with him as shown in 358/2 Days is a memory that makes Roxas cry (in the same way seeing the Twilight Town trio made Sora cry). And while this is mostly supplemented by the manga/light novel adaptations mostly, Xion’s frustration in her encounter with Riku is reflective of that moment for Sora (especially in the manga).

In the perspective of the audience, Sora getting the keyblade back is a show of his own will and strength of heart. But in his eyes, since Donald and Goofy came back just a bit before, this is probably where the idea that his strength coming from his friends gets cemented. For him, the keyblade chooses him because he chooses to support others, which we will see rear its head in 3D.

One of the things that kept grabbing my attention when watching people play through 3D is when they get to the part where Sora says “I know the keyblade didn’t choose me, and I don’t care” because that ends up warranting confusion, and they usually say “but he was chosen though?” This is where that perspective thing shows up.

3D spent a notable amount of times mentioning how Sora isn’t the first choice. How the keyblade moved down the list (Riku to Sora), how the Organization moved down the list (Riku to Roxas to Sora). Xigbar even makes an attempt of mentioning such before Sora says the Thing. In Sora’s view, he wasn’t chosen for being special or having some kind of power but he was chosen because, in his eyes, his purpose is to help “those it [the keyblade] did choose.”

Even at his most confident (as he was on that KH2 victory high), he never viewed himself as “chosen” due to being worthy from his own merit.

And it doesn’t help that after 3D strips him of his power, he gets poked and prodded at for losing it. And that constant loss of power is something he’s aware of (“It’s always like this” line in Japanese). Others have mentioned it in other posts before, but Sora’s mistakes and failures weigh more heavily on his mind than the others who see his strength and victories over all else. Sora knows that he doesn’t understand everything and only does what he feels he can do in the situation for others. It’s kinda like everyone else sees him through these rose-tinted glasses (he gets through everything with a smile, he follows his heart /pos) but for him, he’s clawing through and following his heart /neg.

"It's okay, it's always like this."

This is all the buildup leading to his breakdown. It���s very in line with him, and it’s so fascinating seeing people realize that. Sora’s relationship with his self-esteem, alongside his trauma, are much more subtle arcs compared to other characters. It’s very much due to his style of coping being repression and smiling through everything until he can’t take it anymore.

This isn’t even taking into account other moments of his perspective like how he kinda blames himself for Donald and Goofy leaving him in KH1 (he puts it as “they had to leave” or that “they were separated” (in Japanese), never that they left or abandoned him. He usually doesn’t blame his friends if they’ve hurt him before. There’s even the tangentially connected topic of him being dehumanized.

Sora is both very straightforward and complex in his presentation and writing, just as his series is. His relationships with others are actually pretty complicated and are both the reasons for his strengths and his weaknesses (he and Riku alone are a whole doozy, being each others reasons for improvement but also their downfalls). Sora’s mental health is and will continue to be a topic of interest for me as we go into the next saga.

Someone please get him a nice hot cocoa and proper therapy…

[deliajackson]

Basically, Percy has anger issues, no surprise there. And he completely lacks in open communication, what is also... Not a surprise either.

I mean, who is Percy going to open up with? Sally? The one person Percy is self conscious? The only person Percy believes that he is a trouble for her for failing school repeatedly - even if it is not his fault? Who had to sacrifice part of her life to keep him safe? For some reason I can't see that happening.

Gabe? No way.

Grover? They met when everything started, and besides the emphatic link they actually never have a heart to heart talk later on the story.

Poseidon? They met what? Once a year? And I really doubt Percy would feel comfortable talking with his father about his mental health.

He also never open up about his problems with Annabeth, so big surprise, Annabeth doesn't know half of the shit it comes in his head. I bet she doesn't know about his passively suicidal tendencies either. And let me tell you, not having an open communication with your partner can lead to many problems in a relationship. That one is on Percy, not on Annie.

I would agree with you that there is only one thing that bothers me in Percy, and mostly that is Riordans fault. He is a veteran from two wars. He is chronically depressed. He tried to commit suicide.

And ok? What do we do with that? When is that discussed and really put an effort to solve and give the right importance? Apparently for Rick, never.

Considering that this is a book for children, this narrative choice always pisses me off. Because what are you teaching children when your overpowered MC loved by everyone who is chronically depressed, had a scene where he admmited he tried to unalive himself passively never asks for help later on? Like? Never? The only time it was with Jason and Jason was like "that is hard, bro." And it is never aborded in any other instance? What are you telling them, Rick?????

Another thing that goes is... He doesnt change much from one book to the other. He is still "the same old percy". What doesn't make much sense after everything he has been through. He became bolder, more audacious. Yes. But still the same, nonethless. It is not like Lester/Apollo that we can see him changing in each book of ToA. He starts like one character and ends another one.

That is the reason why I believe many people were surprised in cotg with his sudden bitterness and lack of humor. And that happens because Rick didnt work on that from the very beggining. So it is chocking for the audience, even if it makes sense.

Again that is more Rick' fault than Percy per-se. And I will always stand that Percy deserved a better writer. Especially after the bomb that was wotg.

Respectfully, did Percy Jackson even have any character development throughout the original series?

He doesn't have any flaws. He chose to take the prophecy from Nico, but he was always going to be the prophecy child.

He's good at the start and good at the end with no development unless you count being traumatised and depressed from a war as development, which it's not.

Not trying to be rude, sorry if I seem rude.

Worry not. It's a perfectly reasonable question and should usually be applied to most character studies. Also, buckle up. This is going to be long. Very long. It took me a while to get the time to post this and even more time to actually get my thoughts together. Like a lot of time. (To anyone who doesn't want to read the horrid mess of a post this is there's a partition at the end, after which all the most important points are summarized. ) Just skip to that, but hopefully, someone reads this whole thing because it took me eons to write.

I can see why you think that way, and it is contributed more so by Rick's absolute incapability of not recycling the dead horse that is the original pjo dynamics. He has inhibited character growth from almost every single character where all their epiphanies and character change in the end amounts to nothing, and they regress back to how they used to be, and any and all deviations their personality had are either dismissed or suppressed.

Percy is the victim of the latter. In the first book, he was a child, not particularly concerned with saving the world or being a halfblood. His life had been worse enough, and the halfblood situation had made it abysmal. Percy was living goal by goal. He wanted to get through the field trip, then through the semester, then through the Gabe interactions all so he could finally see his Mom, the one good thing about his life. Then that upends completely, and his only reprieve, the trip to Montauk, his safe place becomes the start of a series of grand tragedies in his life.

Sure, he stayed at the Camp, not willingly but for safety. He had nowhere to go, his life had been turned upside down, his mother was dead, and he wanted to go home, to have his mother back. He couldn't have cared less about the Gods and the world ending, but as soon as Chiron mentions Underworld, Percy is back on solid ground. He has a goal again. Get Sally back. He does everything to reach that goal. He fights monsters, prays to a godly father he refused to acknowledge beforehand, manipulate the press and the Gabe situation, bargain with immortal deities and such, and negotiate his way out of most of those bargains. All the while keeping in mind that he has a traitor to deal with, but Percy is the definition of "deal with one thing at a time. If it's not an immediate concern, it can wait." He does all that and is rewarded for it by being able to live, getting his mother back, and a taste of the life he has doomed himself to, and he almost seems to accept it. He even wonders if Camp Half Blood could be his home.

We see Percy do this throughout all the books. He is constantly changing his intentions, his goals, and his opinions on everything. He is also caught in his internal conflict of being with or against the Gods. The thing is, Percy has very little time for reflection as he is jumping from one existential threat to another, and yet he still manages to grow in the small ways. You need to see it individually book wise rather than over the whole series as Rick messes up terribly with character arcs and developments of literally every other character.

He begins by not caring about Poseidon's existence or his proximity, but in the end, he, too, is beholden to the intrinsic need of having a father. He, too, wants Poseidon to care for him like a father and is therefore hurt by being called a mistake. He knows Poseidon claimed him as a weapon against Zeus so he could rectify someone else's mistakes and restore Poseidon's reputation; who if not Percy would understand this manipulation the best? But the best lies are the ones you want to believe in, and so Percy keeps his silence because, of course, he wants to believe his father genuinely cares for him and loves him. Who doesn't?

He didn't want to be the hero, but by the end of the first book, when he is called one, he doesn't dislike the feeling. He accepts if only a little that this is to be his life now, and as the series progresses, he adds to the pros and cons.

In the Sea of Monsters he is very happy that Gabe is gone and it's just him and his mother again but by the end of it he has gained a new family member in Tyson and is very happy of the fact. He even manages to get over his initial hostility of Clarisse somewhat when he understands her situation.

Titan's Curse is all about Percy learning about the number of forces at play in the world of demigods. He tries to get along with the Hunters and Thalia; it doesn't work. He ends up almost losing Annabeth, someone who he considers a close friend by now. And so we see Percy spiral a little, show more of his anger issues as he interacts with Thalia or even Young Nico just after Annabeth falls from the cliff. Angry and impatient, he goes on his own quest.

I know most readers remember it as Percy, Annabeth, and Grover or the main cast always working together, but it's almost never like that. Somewhere along the way, Percy always ends up doing his own thing, which works because he best works on improvisations. It's Percy's plans that always end up working the most more so than Annabeth's. Just putting it out there.

Then it's just Percy having the worst month of his life. Annabeth is in mortal danger. No one seems to be hearing his opinions between Thalia and the Hunters. Then Bianca dies and Percy because he is Percy is completely and utterly guilty over it.

Note that Percy says he will do his best to keep Biancs safe and not outright promise to keep Bianca safe. But his non-existent self-esteem and other factors withstanding he blamed himself for it completely. Then Zoe dies, and Percy has lost yet another person he thought he needed to keep safe.

Percy is angry at the gods, but he is not surprised by their actions. But he is Percy, and he is determined to change the ways of Olympus, so he pressures the Council and his father to keep the Ophiptaurus, the very creature that threatens to topple their rule. It's his small was of rebelling, and Percy is always rebelling against the gods in his own way, almost never playing into their hands because as much as he despises Luke, he agrees with Luke too and unless he finds a better way to deal with the situation than what Luke is employing he too would have to one day follow in Luke's footsteps.

Now Percy, who trusts Chiron, even thinks of him as a secondary father figure realizes that Chiron for all his compassion for mortals and demigods will always in the end do the bidding of the Gods'. So he makes the snap decision to hide Nico's parentage from Chiron and from everyone else because Percy realizes no matter how much he loves or cares for certain people in his life, they are beholden to answer to a higher power he cannot gainsay, so he will have to take some secrets to the grave. He learns that in the end, some things he needs to shoulder himself.

And of course, the guilt of Bianca's death is no lesser, so he does the only thing he thinks can give him some relief from it. He takes the prophecy for himself, saving Nico and hoping it's enough to alleviate himself of this bile inducing sensation in his gut called guilt that is swallowing him whole.

Now, the Battle of Labyrinth is the most crucial. This is the book with maximum stress on Percy from all ends. From Sally dating Paul and Percy having to prove he is worth Paul's confidence in him in Goode, from Annabeth who is quite literally snippy and passive aggressive through the whole book either due to Rachel or due to her own prophecy even though Rachel and Percy are the two people who got them all out. Then there's the Nico situation. He knows Nico is spiraling, which is making Percy spiral and further strengthening his own guilt. And on top of all this, the Luke situation. Percy is literally caught between an enclosed space, with all four sides closing in on him rapidly while he is fending off mortal danger.

All this repressed tension is fully let loose when he explodes Mt. Helen's. And this is the tipping point. Percy wants to take the choice of Calypso's Island if only briefly and not because he loves her or anything of the sort but because it's his one escape. From everything from his own doomed prophecy. Yet again, Percy is trapped by his own fatal flaw. Personal Loyalty. So he chooses to carry out his responsibility because he has given himself no other choice.

If that wasn't enough of self-realization, he is faced with the horrifying realization of the devastation his power has wrought. His loss of control has single handedly released the greatest threat to Olympus. Hephaestus tells Percy he doesn't know the limits of his own, and by the gods, does that terrify Percy. Up until now, Percy knew his powers were dangerous, but now he knows that he is also dangerous; that he is the real danger. And it's not a reality he wants to ever confront, so he coils his power and holds it tight in a leash. (It's why Percy's burts of power always begin with an unraveling sensation in his gut or something breaking inside himself)

He is somewhat soothed by Poseidon's reassurance because not only does Poseidon not blame him, he also solidifies Percy's faith that he is doing the right thing. And if Poseidon sprinkles in the fact that Percy is the favorite child then who is he to deny himself the comfort of such sweet lies because, of course, Percy thinks it's a lie and of course Percy basks in it. He knows better than to trust gods, he knows better than to trust even his own allies because at the times like this, they will do and say anything to appease him, after all the fate of Olympus depends on him, does it not? And neither the Gods nor the demigods will risk a falling out with him at times like this.

He asks his father if he can help but is denied because he is needed here. Then he does his job as told, and Charlie dies. It's on him. He is struck with twice as much guilt. Over Beckendorf, and then over the state of Atlantis. He asks again if he can help his father and is denied again yet scorned by his father's family, for he can't even help them with the mess he started (or so he believes).

This is why Percy goes with Nico's plan of using the Styx. Because he assumes Nico of all people who already hated him has no reason to curry for his favor. But he makes a mistake. After all, Nico needs his father's favor, and Hades needs Percy gone. Percy can't really blame the kid, but he does anyway because why not? He is angry, he is furious, and everything is slipping from his fingers. He is going to die. Everyone is going to die, and it's all on him. It's all his fault, AGAIN. So he rages at Nico because for at least one single moment, he wishes this were someone else's burden, especially Nico's, but Percy's taken it for himself, and it's too late to back out now.

So he fights and manipulates and negotiates. Titans, River gods, his own demigods. Because don't forget Percy knows there's a mole and that's also his problem. Everything is his problem. All that work and so many dead. Silena, Michael, Ethan, and many more on both sides, and he is trying everything he can to make it better to fix things because, again, he thinks it's his fault. Imagine doing all that, and Rachel tells him he is not the hero, and Percy bristles because no, he doesn't want to be a hero, but of course, it offends him. Because, if he's not the hero, then it's not his burden, and then what the hell is he doing all this for if, in the end, he is not the hero that can save Olympus? Does that mean he read the prophecy wrong, and now he is going to get everyone killed because he wrongly assumed he isn't the hero. He is angry and impulsive, and he snaps at even Hermes. Because now HE is spiraling.

And somehow, it's all over with Luke killing himself, and it dawns on Percy, the truth. So despite all the hate because why wouldn't there be hate, Luke has singlehandedly tried to kill Percy more than Percy can count, and he calls Luke the Hero. Makes the choice because he believes in Annabeth's faith and Hermes's faith in Luke. It pays off and that's all that matters.

Finally finally it is all over. the Gods owe him, and finally, he has an answer on the path he wants to take to change the gods. He denies immortality because he is Percy Jackson, he is Sally Jackson's son and he knows better than to let others dictate the flow of his life, because he has better plans than wasting away inside for eternity, dancing on someone else's tune. He fights for the demigods, the non-Olympian gods and their children who Olympus has failed to do justice to, for Nico, and in some way for himself.

Then it's not over at all because Rachel has taken Blackjack and Percy knows the truth of the Oracle and he loves Rachel far too much to let her even try. But it works and she is okay; he can't be with her but she is alive and she is okay and Percy is extremely grateful for that.

But then there's a new prophecy, and even though he tries to find some peace with Annabeth, he knows it's not over. It's never over for him. But he can forget about it until he can no longer afford to ignore it.

___________________________________________

Of course, Percy repressed his trauma. The last time he let it out, he released the literal bane of the gods out. Do you think Percy could live with something like that happening again? What choice does he have? There's no one who can understand him. NO ONE. Not even Annabeth.

You can see him accept his role as a leader and grow more into it. In son of Sobek or even in Son of Neptune. He is more serious and more authoritative because he has so many people depending on him, so many expectations hanging on him. We can also see Percy's anger issues get out of hand. He is spiraling, the readers know he is spiraling, and Percy knows, but he can't do ANYTHING. HE IS LITETALLY DYING OR BEING ATTACKED, HE CAN'T, HE JUST CAN'T.

BUT WE KNOW IT'S THERE BECAUSE WE CAN SEE HOW MUCH PERCY HAS GROWN INTO SUICIDAL TENDENCIES. AND HE CAN'T ACT ON THEM MOST OF THE TIME BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE ARE DEPENDENT ON HIM AND HIS FATAL FLAW WON'T ALLOW HIM TO PUT HIMSELF OUT OF HIS MISERY.

BUT WHEN HE HAS DONE EVERYTHING HE POSSIBLY COULD, AFTER HOUSE OF HADES, HE LETS POLYBOTES'S POISON CHOKE HIM, ALMOST KILLING HIM IF JASON HADN'T INTERVENED. THANK GOD FOR JASON GRACE.

Percy was this sassy, heavily independent, "I do my own thing" kid and now he is someone with more responsibilities than anyone with most of his free will stripped and most of his hopes ruined or deemed impossible. IT'S TRAGIC AND IT'S EXCRUCIATING AND HE CAN'T DO ANYTHING BECAUSE HE THINKS IT'S MAKING OTHERS HAPPY. IT'S SUCH A HORRIBLE SITUATION. IMAGINE BOOK 1 PERCY? HE WOULD HAVE LET IT BLOW UP IN EVERYONE ELSE'S FACE BEFORE HE EVER LET HIMSELF BE SO BROKEN.

I have seen so many people say how Percy is the standard hero who is always good and never makes bad choices, and I wonder which books they read. Percy always makes the supposed "right" choices at the cost of himself. His fatal flaw enabling his moral compass and the sheer guilt of the lives lost. He can't escape. He hates the gods, he hates the quests but he loves his family and friends so dearly, there's nothing he wouldn't do for them which means Percy is suffocating, drowning, choking in his own misery, his repressed trauma,his self loathing and being crushed to death by the weight of lives, responsibilities and expectations only he can hope to fulfil.

And one day Percy won't be able to take it. His lapses of control will increase in magnitudes so great, his inner rage will level the world. Destroyer, like Athena predicted, Destroyer like Kronos wanted and Destroyer like his name means.

Not every hero needs a villain arc. Percy is inspiring because after all this shit and all these horrors. He is still good, but WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE TOLL OF IT. PERCY IS STILL GOOD BUT AT WHAT COST? LOOK WHAT IT'S DONE TO HIM.

Rick has such a great potential for an arc like that but he is going to fuck it up, I know he is but I hope readers realize where it's all leading to and how much Percy has changed and how much he has sacrificed. Also, @hermesmyplatonicbeloved , @ogjacksonsimp , @cynicalclairvoyantcadaver , @helenofsparta2, @fourcornersofcreation thoughts? Did I stray too far from the canon, or am I getting it right at least a little? Because this post took days, I have no idea what it has devolved into.

[lambmotifz]

kripke era wincest does have that gothic horror vibe, the weirdness and the sexual tension that doesn’t exist in their post kripke dynamic so i think as a shipper that’s part of why i don’t really consider post s5 spn as canon. also swan song is a good ending that makes perfect sense narratively idc what anyone says

[turtleblogatlast]

[ cw: death mention / strangulation mention / stabbing mention / blood mention / self-sacrifice / codependency mention in tags / ]

I think a lot about how common it is for Raph to be the one to have direct focus put on him when Leo gets into all his near death experiences.

Like, when Leo is thrown off a building, it’s Raph who’s right there jumping after him, not even thinking about the consequences to himself when he does. When Leo almost gets skewered by the Krang, Raph’s right there to take the blow and send Leo to safety without a second thought. When Leo’s being strangled to near death, it’s a Krangified Raph doing the job, doing exactly what Raph would never, ever want to do. When Leo is telling Casey Jr to close the portal, it’s Raph who tries desperately to convince Leo otherwise.

Likewise, Leo is consistently very single minded when Raph gets forcibly separated from them. Both when in the sewers and by the Krang, Leo is dead set on finding Raph first and foremost.

I also think it’s interesting that during each of Leo’s near death experiences, the lightheartedness of his words during them goes directly hand in hand with both how close Raph is to him physically and how much danger Raph is also in in that moment. From a literal “I told you so” as Leo’s falling away from Raph to a soft joke about how “hero moves” are Raph’s style - both of these are on the more morbidly carefree side and both of these notably take Leo farther away from Raph and, in turn, have Raph not in immediate danger.

On the other side of things is the apology from Leo, heedless of the danger he himself is in as he seriously and genuinely speaks to a Krangified Raph face to face. Then there’s Leo’s freezing and desperation as Raph takes a hit meant for him and sends just Leo to safety, leaving Raph himself behind. Both of these involve much closer proximity and Raph being directly harmed - these together make Leo much more vulnerable in his words and actions, something not even the threat of death can make him.

These two care about each other so much, and they’re way too much alike for their own good.

[luck-of-the-drawings]

[OLD ART ALERT] A COLLECTION OF SCENES FROM THE GILLIONS CATSCRATCH ARC THAT BROUGHT ME GREAT JOY. i love fishy chips especially when its just gillion being delirious and violent and hostile

[annalacerda17]

I think Jiang Cheng is a type of Narcissist that's less common, called Victim-Narcissist.

This kind of narcissist sees themselves as victims of the unfairness of life, are incapable of accepting responsibility for the negative consequences of their own actions, and are extremely self-centered and manipulative, something that shapes the way they see themselves in relation to others.

So, while a narcissist is capable of caring about others, they do so in a very self centered way. They care about how they feel in that relationship, and about how the other person' s behavior affects them. In Jiang Cheng's case, I personally think it's quite evident that he cares about Wei Wuxian in this way, that is, what matters to Jiang Cheng is how Wei Wuxian makes him feel, not how Wei Wuxian himself feels.

So, Jiang Cheng was friendless, and his only sources of validation were Jiang Yanli and Wei Wuxian. Let us not forget how Madam Yu was abusive toward everyone around her, and that she deliberately sabotaged her son's relationship with his father. So the parents weren't sources of validation or comfort.

And yet, when Jiang Yanli died protecting Wei Wuxian, it didn't matter to Jiang Cheng what Jiang Yanli's choice meant and what she intended to do. What mattered to him was how he, Jiang Cheng, felt about her death. And that's because narcissists only care about their own needs in a relationship, their own wants and their own feelings. The other person's feelings don't matter, except in how it affects them, the Narcissist.

We can see the same pattern in his relationship with Wei Wuxian.

As for the whole "sacrificing himself for Wei Wuxian" thing, I'm not sure if that's even what it was. Jiang Cheng was not sound of mind at that particular moment. It was also unclear whether Wei Wuxian was truly in danger. Jiang Cheng was grieving and angry and in panic, and to be honest I don't even think he knew what exactly he was trying to do.

Once he was forced to face the consequences, the loss of his golden core, his reaction shows that he wasn't willing to accept that. A sacrifice isn't really a sacrifice if the person doing the sacrificing is unwilling to accept the consequences.

To me, what happened was that Jiang Cheng acted without thinking (impulsiveness being another trait common in Narcissists), and he may or may not have had Wei Wuxian in mind, and didn't think about the consequences. I think it's even possible he may have been thinking about dying with his family. The one thing Jiang Cheng didn't do was to rationally and consciously decide to sacrifice himself for Wei Wuxian.

I think MXTX wrote Jiang Cheng with full understanding of what is a Victim-Narcissist.

Some of the common traits among narcissists is the feeling of abandonment by a father or father figure (in this case, Madam Yu sabotaged the relationship between father and son, which created this feeling in Jiang Cheng despite it not being factually true), and also a controlling mother, which Madam Yu was.

Another common trait in Narcissists is the imbalance of power in relationships. That is, if the other person does something for them, that's what it should be, but they don't feel the need to do anything for the other person in return. So they're ungrateful. And we can see that in how Jiang Cheng treated the Wens Remnants.

Jiang Cheng's every relationship is about Jiang Cheng alone, with no space for the other person in the relationship to express needs and wants. It's all about what Jiang Cheng wants, always.

It can be seen in his relationship with Jiang Yanli, in his relationship with Wei Wuxian and in his relationship with Jin Ling. Even his relationship with Jiang Fengmian and Madam Yu show some of that, but it's mixed with the need to get parental approval and lack of power in the relationship. In the case of his relationship with Wei Wuxian, his behavior gets validated by the elitist society they are in, and in his relationship with Jiang Yanli, his behavior gets validated by a misogynistic society that thinks it's normal to deny women agency.

* Narcissism is not a mental illness, it's a personality disorder. Not the same thing.

*A Narcissist is perfectly capable of distinguishing right from wrong and good from bad, they just tend not to care.

I have a genuine doubt about Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian’s relationship in the novel. (I just read your post about if a kid jc would defend a kid wwx, but has a little to do with that post).

I remember Jiang Cheng tried to defender Wei Wuxian from his mother, and later he even sacrificed himself for wwx, losing his core in the process. (If there’s more, I don’t remember. It’s been a time since I read the novel).

I really don’t understand why he sacrificed? I get that he thought Wei Wuxian was better than him, but… after everything he did, he just let people jeopardize Wei Wuxian in the end of his first life?…

It was a way to say “everything I owed you is paid”? Was he mad that he did that but in the end Wei Wuxian wasn’t “grateful” even never knowing what Jiang Cheng truly did?…

I think after Jiang Cheng lost his core to “protect” Wei Wuxian, he started to see wwx as a servant and nothing more. Before the attack we saw that they got along very well, but after it seemed like he started to agree more with his mother's ideas about Wei Wuxian being only a servant.

That’s why he was so mad that Jiang Yanli died defending him? He threw Jiang Yanli’s sacrifice away and lead a siege against Wei Wuxian anyway…

Not only he threw his relationship with Wei Wuxian away, but he did not respected his sister’s wish and choice. She knew something was wrong, that Wei Wuxian wouldn’t kill her husband for nothing, and Jiang Cheng didn’t trust her…

I am wrong? I really want your point of view about this. And I’m sorry if you already talked about it, I’m new here. Thank you!

Caring about others, is complicated. For as much as I'm called a hater and anti, I have never denied that Jiang Cheng cared (as lacking as that may have been in a significant way) for Wei Wuxian.

Jiang Cheng did care in some capacity for Wei Wuxian and try. He just didn't put up much effort in the long run to maintain that support when it was a detriment to himself and was spiteful when that care required effort and some sacrifices. Even when he "protected" Wei Wuxian from his mother he was still cowed by her threats to him, and let Wei Wuxian be whipped (and later turned to strangle Wei Wuxian, twice actually, and blame him for his parents deaths).

As for the core issue. Jiang Cheng never expected to give more than what he was expecting for Wei Wuxian. He did not willingly give his core and was resentful about that cost for protecting Wei Wuxian. It cannot be a kindness when he hated what it cost and lashed out years after. He always thought of Wei Wuxian as his servant first and foremost despite being "friends". That is what always would make them eventually part. Ideologically they are nothing alike and that was obvious as soon as their talk about servants children and Jiang Cheng dismissing their worth and ability. He threw his relationship away because he felt entitled to Wei Wuxian as a tool more than a friend. A friend does not have stipulations for their care and love especially when they start forming it as a debt of give and take.

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

Wei Wuxian and Narrative Agency – Part Three

For Xiantober Day Five: Past and Present, in which the author gets very unhinged about what parts of the past are shown and how that’s affected by the present!

(Part One | Part Two | Full version on AO3)

The Power of Agency: Shaping the Narrative

When I've discussed Wei Wuxian's agency previously, I’ve talked about how what’s shown and omitted tells us about a character, and we’ve talked about the character himself. Though this is a niche topic, it’s not necessarily something out of the ordinary to analyse, and we can assume everything up to here has been in some way intentional.

This? Linking structure to a character’s in-universe preferences?

This is where we get unhinged.

Before I start, let’s quickly establish something which will be important later: although Wei Wuxian is the central character, MDZS isn’t strictly from his POV. While omitting events a character doesn’t like to dwell on and concealing things the character wishes to hide is common in books with only one narrator, MDZS has multiple narrators which it switches between relatively quickly. This includes Wei Wuxian, but it also includes nearly every major character that appears in the story, and omniscient narrator as well. As a default, this format doesn’t lead to this deliberate shaping and omission because of one character’s preferences, since we have many other sources of information and events – which is what makes Wei Wuxian’s influence over the narrative and structure so interesting. We could have access to a lot more information, and access to it at different times, than we do (and that’s not an insult, quite the opposite!).

To begin: we’ve established that times such as Wei Wuxian’s time on the streets, his three months in the Burial Mounds and his loss in the Siege aren’t shown because Wei Wuxian has little agency there. But that’s not the only special thing about them. They’re also the three most traumatic times in his life, and so moments Wei Wuxian himself either can’t remember, or doesn’t like to dwell on.

This is why discussing Wei Wuxian’s treatment of tragedy in his life was important. Firstly, it shows he doesn’t focus on the tragedy in his life, so the idea that the narrative not focusing on this tragedy relates to his character has merit; secondly, it affirms that this is not a passive trait, but a choice. Therefore, when the narrative omits events due to this aspect of Wei Wuxian, it’s respecting not only a character detail – which would be cool by itself – but also an active decision. One that shapes the story it’s made in.

In other words, its very structure is respecting Wei Wuxian’s agency!

Now, of course there are flashbacks to other moments of his past he probably wouldn’t like to dwell on, too. But within the structure, they’re only shown when Wei Wuxian is thinking about them (or when he has reason to)!

Wei WuXian hadn’t woken up yet. His eyes were still tightly shut, yet his hand didn’t let go either. He seemed to be dreaming, muttering, “… Don’t… Don’t be angry…” Lan WangJi seemed somewhat surprised. His voice was gentle, “I am not angry.” Wei WuXian, “… Oh.” Hearing this, as though he finally felt assured, his fingers loosened. Lan WangJi sat beside Wei WuXian for a while. Seeing that he was motionless again, he was about to stand up when Wei WuXian grabbed him with his other hand, hugging his arm and refusing to let go. He shouted, “I’ll go with you, quick, take me back to your sect!” Chapter 63, EXR translation

Which, of course, is him dwelling on…

Lan WangJi spoke one word at a time, “Go back to Gusu with me.” Hearing this, both Wei WuXian and Jiang Cheng were surprised. Quickly afterward, Wei WuXian laughed, “Go back to Gusu with you? To the Cloud Recesses? Why go there?” He immediately seemed to realize, “Oh. I forgot. Your uncle Lan QiRen hates crooked people like me. You’re his proudest disciple, so of course you’re the same as him, haha. I refuse.” Chapter 62, EXR translation

…the painful flashback immediately preceding this. The third set of flashbacks (which are also painful) are a similar case. Look at the contex:

He lifted the bottom of his robe, revealing a prosthetic leg made of wood, “This leg of mine was destroyed by you, that night in the Nightless City (…)” (…) “Wei WuXian, I won’t ask you if you remember or not. Both of my parents died by your hands. You owe too many people. You definitely won’t remember them either. But, I, Fang MengChen, will never forget! And never forgive you!” (…) “In the fight at Qiongqi Path, my son was strangled to death by your dog Wen Ning!” “My shixiong died by poison, his entire body festering due to your cruel curse!” Chapter 68 (immediately preceding the flashbacks), EXR translation

And Wei Wuxian’s own thoughts and words:

Wei WuXian looked at the cultivators before the Demon-Slaughtering Cave. Their expressions were the absolute same as those of the cultivators from the night of the pledge conference, pouring their wine on the ground as they took the pledge to scatter the ashes of the Wen Sect’s remnants and him.  (…) Wei WuXian, “Now it’s time to ask just whom it is that treasures it so much. It’s like Wen Ning. Back then, some certain sects or so were scared to death of the Ghost General. They said they’d kill him on the surface, but behind their backs they hid him for over ten years. How strange. Who was the one that said his ashes had been scattered back then?” Chapter 79 (immediately succeeding the flashbacks), EXR translation 

Once again, Wei Wuxian’s own thoughts relate to the flashbacks we’ve just been shown. And, as I previously mentioned, though all the events which are shown are tragic, they’re also events which Wei Wuxian’s own choices and actions shaped – which he has this to say about:

“The things I did, not only do you remember them, I remember them too. You won’t forget them, and they’ll stay even longer in my mind!” Chapter 82, EXR

Admittedly, this applies more to the third set of flashbacks than the second (which is still fitting as the third set was the most recent), as in the second, although he still had agency within and influence over his circumstances, the majority of the pain was caused by others’ actions (excluding, of course, the Golden Core transfer… which is something we know stays for a long time in his mind, albeit with a caveat we’ll soon discuss). But it’s still important to note – especially considering that otherwise, focusing on this very painful time in his life wouldn’t seem like something very in-character for Wei Wuxian to do.

Of course, this can all just be explained by good writing. It is best to insert flashbacks when they’re relevant to the characters and events in the present day! But it is interesting to compare these to the start of the (not painful) Gusu flashbacks, which open this way:

At a later time, Wei WuXian pondered upon the reason why his relationship with Lan WangJi wasn’t good. Getting to the root of the matter, everything started when he was fifteen, coming to the GusuLan Sect with Jiang Cheng to study for three months. Chapter 13, EXR

Again, considering the circumstances around which these flashbacks take place – returning to the Cloud Recesses for the first time since the lectures, and meeting Lan Wangji once more – it makes complete sense for Wei Wuxian to be thinking about these events*. So it does fit the pattern of Wei Wuxian dwelling on something, thus leading to the narrative dwelling on it, too (and being shaped by his thoughts)… but there’s another layer to this. Importantly, it is the only flashback where Wei Wuxian’s present thoughts don’t lead to this happening, with his thoughts at an unspecified future time leading to it, instead. I like to interpret this as the text saying that, since these events aren’t something Wei Wuxian wouldn’t focus on in normal circumstances, he can dwell on them at any time. Therefore, they’re free to come up in the narrative at any time as well, even if he’s not dwelling on them in the present moment!

So, to summarise: Wei Wuxian’s decision not to focus on the painful times in his life directly influences the narrative to not focus on these times. When painful times are brought up and shown to us, it’s in the context of him thinking about them in the present day, and even then, his most painful moments still aren’t shown to us. His agency in this regard is still respected by the narrative structure.

This is the main way his agency influences the structure of the narrative, but I’d like to talk about the revealing and concealing of information, too. For example, I said I’d talk about the Golden Core transfer – though Wei Wuxian does think about this many times, as evidenced by his internal narration in Chapter 103. But unlike everything we’re shown through the flashbacks, this is something Wei Wuxian is actively trying to hide from others. And the narrative respects this choice (Wei Wuxian’s agency, again), never reveals it even when it would be relevant in the flashbacks, and we find out not through narration, but through a character’s dialogue!

And to clarify – I know these aspects may not be in the book for this exact reason. Showing flashbacks in relevant moments is good writing, concealing an important plot point you want to do a reveal for is necessary writing, and MXTX has said she didn’t want to write about Wei Wuxian’s time in the Burial Mounds, due to not liking to write transformation sequences (and also because it would not be pleasant at all, which likely also applies to Wei Wuxian’s death). That doesn’t prevent it from also being intentional – MXTX’s intelligence is shown in many aspects of this book, and there’s nothing disproving it – but there’s no proof for either option, so I won’t pretend there is. I bring this up because I know this feels like I’m overanalysing, as I feel that way as well.

But, whether it’s intentional or not, it exists in the text, and I adore it – so, regardless, it’s something I’ll explore. Because taking this into account… We aren't just told about Wei Wuxian having agency, we aren’t just shown it in the text, we aren’t even just shown it through which parts of his past are shown and hidden in the structure of the text (as I talked about in Part One). The parts of the past that are shown and hidden also have an in-universe reason for being shown and hidden, this reason being the choices he makes! Agency is the ability of a character to influence the story they’re in, but Wei Wuxian’s agency, as a property of a character who only exists in-universe, shapes the out-of-universe structure as well! That’s how we’re shown its importance! How cool is that?

At The End Of The Road: Summary and Final Thoughts

In this essay, we’ve covered how important Wei Wuxian’s agency is not only to the events of the plot, but to the structure of the narrative as well. The narrative omits periods in which Wei Wuxian has little or no agency, in favour of showing us periods in which he does, even when important events happened in the former. This indicates that who Wei Wuxian is without agency isn’t important enough to be shown to the audience, and therefore that his agency is an integral aspect of his character in MDZS. We’ve discussed how both in-universe and out-of-universe, tragedy does not define him – out-of-universe, the tragic events in Wei Wuxian’s life are used not to build sympathy but rather to show his strength of character and who he still is despite going through them; and in-universe, he chooses not to focus on the negativity and resentment caused by his circumstances or others’ actions, instead staying true to his moral compass and enjoying his life in the present day. Finally, we’ve also explored how this choice is another reason for the omission of certain events from the narrative, resulting in his agency shaping the story in a very literal way – it affects the out-of-universe structure, as well.

It’s quite fitting, for a story whose essence is about defying a conventional narrative – that of righteous clans rising up and defeating a great evil – and about a character who defies many conventional narratives on his own – that of status defining how skilled you could be, that for a golden core being necessary for cultivation and other paths being unavailable, that of a tragic but complete story of someone killed for staying true to their moral code (instead, that character returns to life and has a happy ending) – to have its own narrative play a role in such an important and interesting way.

(Or, if an image would be preferable:)

Thank you for reading!

(Part One | Part Two | Full version on AO3)

--

*This strong relation to the present day circumstances is another reason I love the flashback placement so much (and why I think it’s such a loss both screen adaptions altered it so strongly)! 

[shannonsketches]

[astralhope]

- No, this is one duel I refuse to lose! -

[apollos-boyfriend]

one thing about me is that i’m ALWAYS thinking about chapter 4 kokichi ouma

[minarcana]

[giantkillerjack]

Catholicism.

[.... oops I accidentally wrote real analysis in the tags lol]

why is he like this

[lambmotifz]

kripke’s ending hurts me so much but it’s perfect and that’s where spn ends for me. the ending of swan song just feels right because sam was basically the lamb picked for the slaughter — he was sacrificed the moment his mother sold him to the devil when he was still unborn

[vatelixx]

The enormity of my desire (disgusts me),

Very very early seasons (1 — start of 2) Spencer Reid x afab!BAU!reader

SMUT!! (and fluff, some angst in relation to Spencer’s past because it can never be too happy, we’re not allowed nice things here). first times & explorations of intimacy.

──── autistic spencer (it’s a central theme to the plot), reader is actually morally good (for once).

Warnings: sub spencer (what did u even expect?), heavy corruption kink, first time for Spencer (all i do is sit around and think about how i’d like to devirgin that genius), HEAAVY praise kink, very very inexperienced Spencer, slight? oral fixation, they’re both just rlly down bad (i told u i would write something light, i delivered), Reader is whipped, Spencer is sooo much worse. Biblical references, Religious imagery, i think i talk about math equations???? And random metaphors/complexes.

w.c: 4k

a/n: i rlly wanted to explore aspects of spencer that criminal minds swept under the rug (cough cough his undiagnosed autism, cough cough his social exclusion, cough cough his crippling fear of forever being alone). Next upload will prob be heavy angst/no smut post-prison spencer (god help me please, i must be a masochist for the way i make myself suffer)

───────────────

There’s a lot Spencer hasn’t done.

He knows he’s behind, that he never quite caught up when it came to the taboo of sex and intimacy. Everything, everything, he’s ever had has been centred around exclusion, alienation, he feels like he’s lived on pause. Frozen, never advancing, stuck on ‘go’. Touch isn’t easy for him, interpersonal relationships are worse. He’s different, god he’s heard that his entire life. ‘You’re not weird, you’re just… different’, but maybe he is weird. Maybe his whole existence is just one big cosmic fuck you, because he’s missed out on so much, so much that he can’t understand, comprehend, act out against. Falling behind; this is the only area of life where he continuously comes up short, inexperienced, naive, he’s not used to being incompetent.

He’s never experienced want the way others do. He could never just hook up, fall into the body of another, expose them to the vulnerable elements of his stature. Open himself up to scrutiny. He might be a genius, he might be intellectually advanced, accepted into a multitude of ivy leagues before he was old enough to vote, but there’s drawbacks to his success. Social awkwardness, an inability to blend, mould, be one of the crowd. Sometimes he wishes he was average, something grey and mundane, so far reduced from the person he is now— it would all be plainly simple.

But he’s not, he’s not. So, this is the weight he has to bare for the brain he never asked for.

Pyrrhic victory, he’ll always be renowned for his intelligence. ‘You’re going to change the world kid,’ maybe, but simultaneously, he’ll never get to experience said world. There’s a chance he’ll always be on the outside, watching normal people gravitate towards each other. Live dreary lives of domesticated simplicity. Stacked bills, arguments over money and parenting techniques. Going to bed angry, only to turn around, mid-night, and resolve it, to not sleep on bad blood. To take them off the couch, to settle into predestined sides of the mattress.

There’s not enough possessions in the world he’d sacrifice just to experience love.

Hedgehog dilemma, the challenges of human intimacy. The hedgehogs want to move closer, to preserve heat during cold. But, they are forced, biologically cursed to remain apart, in order to prevent themselves from harming each other. Spencer doesn’t want to be hurt, to hurt, it’s a morbid byproduct of his upbringing; all he ever endured was mockery.

He thought he’d never get to experience the physical, carnal aspects of existence. And sure, he made peace with the notion, accepted the consequences of being born atypical. Learnt to live without.

But then, oh then there was you. Pretty, intellectual you who quite literally tipped his world on it’s axis. Upheaved the most stable of routines. New to the BAU, he wanted you to last. To stay around, endure the worst of the job. If only for his selfish benefit of orbiting in your presence.

He remembers how it all started: Detroit, another case, more budget cuts, forced proximity that sent you spiralling into a shared bed for the night.

“You’re my favourite person in the team.” you admitted, “And I know that’s dumb, because we’ve spoken the least, but… you’re just, so you. That’s a good thing by the way, a really really good thing.”

He couldn’t quite believe you were talking about him. Spencer, who spilt coffee, and slipped into ceaseless tangents about obscure information. Spencer, who walked into walls when you were around, stumbling over his sentences before deftly, very astutely, giving up, walking away mid-conversation. He wore sweater-vests and colourful mismatched socks, it’s not like he was going to be crowned ‘white boy of the month’.

“Not dumb.” Spencer had responded, shifting closer to tangle further into the warm mess of this accidental situation. “That’s good. I like being me.” he mumbled. “Sometimes…. sometimes it sucks. But that’s okay. I think it’s okay?”

He moved to press his face into the crook of your neck, but you were faster, gathering him by tousled hair, forcing him to look you in the eye.

Oh.

“Please. Please.” he whispered, breaking apart, fracturing, “Please like me. And more than in a weird, ‘just friends or coworkers’ way.”

You did. You do. He should’ve kissed you then, but maybe he was scared, maybe he couldn’t quite discern his feelings, separate the logic from the emotional. So he waited, waited, waited until now. Your third date, you take him to an exhibition within a science centre: replica models of the solar system, filling rooms up, papier-mâché sculptures illuminated by light.

Best date ever. You listen, even when he’s rambling about planets, when he’s pointing out that yes, Jupiter’s density is less than water. That, technically, it would float in a bathtub, if one was built to accommodate its size. You don’t care that he’s not exactly the staple-piece for conventionally attractive males. That he’s nerdish, and awkward, and so so inexperienced when it comes to this.

In his apartment, later, much later, he looks at you, looks at you like you’re the one who just solved the fucking Riemann hypothesis.

“What do you want the most? Like,… if you could ask for one thing.” you say, and god, Spencer loves when you pose these deep, hypothetical questions. When you make him think, because you, you are the biggest challenge to his intellect yet.

You. He wants to say. But he settles for ‘Being remembered,’ instead. He works to untangle layers of fabric, your scarf, your jacket, letting out an exasperated laugh when he meets your amused gaze. “Right now though? I think I’d settle for kissing you.”

You cup his jaw, tracing your fingers along the sharp curve, and god he has perfect anatomy. “Settle huh? You should be more appreciative.”

He leans forward to press a chaste kiss against your lips. Drawing away for a moment, just to return because he’s never had this before. Because for the first time in his life, he gets it. He gets physical attraction, even if it took time. He’s kissed, been kissed, yes. But he could count those moments on one hand, and if you asked how many he truly enjoyed, he’d be left with no fingers raised.

“Believe me, i’m very appreciative…”

This isn’t like before, what he felt in the past; he expected something monotone, flighty, a brief fleeting moment of satisfaction. Means to an end. No, it’s actually the best thing he’s ever experienced, and he’s going to become so insufferable after this, because he’s just found out he is very very into kissing.

Correction: he’s very into kissing you.

In the moment between parting, and touching again, he assumes you to be divinity personified. Spencer has never been religious, but something of this magnitude should be canonised. He wants to ask you. Ask you when you became this beautiful. When you became the person he needs to kiss a second time, kiss a third time, kiss until his lips go numb.

A shaky inhale, a pause. “I hope… I hope that it was okay - I mean, it was good for me. Really, really good. Um—“ to be honest, he’s just glad he didn’t say thankyou.

“Yeah, Spence. That was… wow.” you draw your bottom lip between teeth, press into tissued flesh. Jesus Christ. “Wanna try again?”

Yes yes yes yes. He looks at you, pupils blown obscenely out of proportion. Part of him wants to say, ‘why didn’t we do this sooner?’ But that’s not fair; he’s only ready now. Now that he feels, now that he might be a little in love with you.

“Please,” is his answer, and then he’s catching your face in the palms of his hand, tugging your lips back to his, because admittedly, they have ached in the long, extensive period you were apart (53 seconds).

This time it deepens and Spencer sees stars. It’s an astronomical phenomenon, something interstellar— and god, he’s relating kissing to space. They should just tape the word ‘virgin’ to his back and call it a day.

There’s soft little breathy sighs escaping his mouth now, bleeding into yours. And yeah, spontaneous combustion might be a real threat. Actually no, it would hardly be spontaneous; there’s a clear, clear cause, and it just so happens to be your ruinous lips.

This is an entirely new facet of the human experience. The kiss is electric; he’s always been partial toward physics, and right now his veins carry an alternating current.

You know, he could probably write a thesis based on this.

You both stumble back back back until he’s hitting a wall, and yes, thankyou. He’s making all sorts of sounds he can’t justify, and it’s a supernova, an infinite black pool of— oh, he thinks he might die, ascend, transcend, when you press your thumb against his chin, hold your lips at just a little slant from his. Force him to wait there.

“Please,” he’s never been above begging. A worthy sacrifice, one he’ll certainly repeat again because you return to the kiss, and the world around him dissolves.

You’ve got one hand tangled in his hair. Tousled auburn, fingers sinking into strands, pushing all the way down to the root. The other is still cupping his face, keeping him close, keeping him selfishly close actually.

“Spence,” you murmur. And yes. Yes. He likes that. The way his name sounds rolling off your tongue, like it was destined to be there. Like he was destined to be yours.

His world is ending. So is yours. Fuck it, he presses himself against your thigh, and ohmygodohmygod. He’s being loud, he’s actually being so criminally loud right now because apparently he’s the most whorish virgin to ever exist.

“I lied, I lied,” he admits between messy kisses, “When you asked what I wanted the most? It’s not to be remembered, well it is, its on the list. But—“ he groans, kisses you again because talking interrupts matters that are more important. Like your lips.

“I wanna cum.”

Eloquent.

Spencer Reid being dirty? Oh, it’s hot, it’s so hot to reduce someone to such an obscene state. To reduce him, the boyish fumbling nerd (who just so happens to be the most beautiful person in existence) to such a degrading mess.

Still, there’s shock. Not because he said it (you greatly appreciate the indecent things falling from those pretty lips right now), but because—

“You’ve never? Haven’t even experienced it once? By yourself?”

He should be embarrassed, but his lips are red, his eyes are glassy, and the bulge in his pants is straining to be touched. “Never,” he sighs shakilly. “Never, and i’m— i’m starting to understand why it’s so popular.”

He whimpers, pushes himself against your thigh, because the friction, yes. “Is that weird? Please don’t think i’m weird. Because I’m really, really weird. Just maybe… not in that way?”

It’s never been enough. His body sometimes feels numb to the touch, and yet still so very overstimulated. Like he manually blocks himself from feeling, already prepared for the flinch. How does he explain that life hasn’t been kind to him? That he hates his body because of what people made it out to be when he was a child. Stripping him naked, tying him to a goalpost, always the underdog. The one to be targeted, tormented.

“It’s actually kinda hot,” you interrupt his thoughts, and just because you’re evil, corrupt, the worst, you press your thigh harder against his clothed cock, palm covering his mouth when a plethora of whiny sounds escape his mouth.

It’s performative, really. Alone in his apartment, there’s no need for noise control. So when your thumb slips between parted, swollen lips, he knows to suck. The average human hand has between 10,000 and 10 million bacteria, and Spencer does not actually give a fuck anymore.

“To think that you’ve never even felt what it’s like. That you’re gonna feel it with me for the first time. I get to see that shit— god, you’re going to look so fucking pretty for me.”

You draw your thumb out of his mouth, and he has the audacity to whine.

He’s never wanted anything more in his entire life. It’s all tertiary now. Only this matters.

“Please don’t praise me—“ he protests, “I’ll probably finish in my pants.”

“Praise kink, noted.”

You laugh, and he can only groan, curse existence for being this cruel to his overworked, undervalued body. “Don’t— don’t laugh. You’re not supposed to laugh, that can heighten performance anxiety. Increase insecurity, and…” he sighs, “You do not care. Sadistic tendencies, noted.”

“Shut up. Wanna see you.” you say, and he’s just muttering breathless mhm’s, too delirious to function; his body is betraying the last iota of self-control like the little whore it apparently is.

His sweater comes off first, then his top. Discarded fabric, his raised arms when you mutter a candid ‘up’, giving way to exposed skin. In response? Your pupils dilate. Spencer knows because he’s analysing, profiling. If you hate him like this, he’s fairly certain he’ll drag himself into a self-dug early grave. He wishes he was being melodramatic. That your approval didn’t have such a substantial impact on his carefully-constructed ego. But, oh, it does. It does.

Thin, with a long, defined torso, he blushes, rose blemished skin, when your hands drag across his stomach. He’d love to say he reacts sanely, suavely. Urbane to your touch. But that would be a total, discreditable lie. Instead, his back arches, seeking contact, following the path of your fingertips with pitiful desperation. He feels malleable, willing to bend and contort, if only to feel more.

“How can you not think you’re pretty, Spence?” His pants are gone next, then his stained boxers, fabric borderline sheer now, soaked through with pre-cum.

Spencer feels betrayed. His body never responds, not to his own hands, not to his own thoughts. And yet, the moment you’re on him, he’s a live-wire. It’s sick, heinous, double-crossing. Maybe it’s purposeful, done just to spite him. Figures.

“Holy shit, look at you. Look at how perfect you are.” Spencer wants to object, because he distinctly told you not to praise him. However,.. right now, the lights are on but nobody is home. Brain-death, he’s certainly in a vegetative state.

“Ohmygodohmygod,” he whimpers, because no amount of knowledge about human anatomy and physiology could prepare him for how he feels under your touch. No amount of education in the psychology of relationships could inform him of how viscerally wrong the way you look at him feels.

Because it’s not wrong, not all. It’s the most right he’s ever felt, and he’ll tell you that if you’ll just keep it up.

The sounds he’s making are phonographic, lewd, you’ve given up on trying to stifle them now. Where have you been hiding? Your eyes fall, and he wants to blush away from the exhibiting gaze, but he’s just…. too far gone; the thought of your touch outweighs any previous reticence. Then, oh then, you drop to your knees, and shit. He expected your thigh, maybe your hand if he was lucky, not—

This. Your mouth, your tongue, your pretty lips; god, god, is this a sin? Because if it is, he’ll take it.

“Please,” he whines, and he can’t look anymore because the sight alone is going to send him over the edge. He’s gripping the wall, scrambling scrambling for purchase, because he’s trying not to grip you, but how exactly does he keep this respectful?

He’s pretty sure they’re past that, considering your mouth is currently wrapped around his cock, and he’s debauched.

You want this, you want him, he feels like he’s transcended humanity, like he’s become someone, anyone and anything, that deserves the way you’re taking him apart, piece by piece. In the aftermath, he hopes you don’t leave a single ounce of him intact.

“Wanna kiss you. Oh— oh oh,” he’s sobbing now, “Come back here. Miss your mouth— even if it’s,” he looks down and that’s a mistake. “Please.”

Of course it would be Spencer to disrupt the best (and admittedly only) head of his life because he needs you closer.

You oblige, raising from your knees, and Spencer thinks it might be sacrilegious. But then again, he feels religion in your touch so it can’t be too profane. Maybe? He’s not sure, he’s not sure and it doesn’t matter. Ethics and morality have long since disintegrated, sins are engrained into humankind. He almost wants to thank Eve for tearing into the apple, because it’s allowed this irreverence to occur.

Spencer blindly follows you through the apartment, stumbling and muttering until he can collapse against the bed. Baring his pretty neck as his head hits the bedframe. Tangled in sheets, draped over his lap, his deft fingers run across your waist, mapping out the structure of your frame. If only to remember, recite this act of blasphemy.

“Spence,” you whisper, and then his lips are crashing into yours, stealing breath, stealing sanity. He whimpers, murmurs a protest when you draw back, and you can only laugh. “Lets get you off, yeah? You wanna feel an orgasm, pretty boy?”

“Yes, yes please. That would uh— yes.” he’s not even sure how he’s conscious right now. His body, god his body, has endured more pleasure in the last hour than it has for the majority of his life. Your hands scathe, and Spencer is willing to indefinitely burn, if just to feel them one more time.

You only stop to take off your clothes, and surely there needs to be prep? To reaffirm, he knows anatomy, the correct procedure, how the transgression is supposed to occur. And yet, that’s from a clinical, objective mindset. Do this, do that, etc etc. Nothing works out like that in practice.

You’re so wet, panties stained through, he spares a moment to run his fingers across your thighs, hand slipping beneath fabric to graze your clit. The moan that follows has him distracted, thumb tracing circlets, over and over until you’re pulling back to return the balance. The balance, which admittedly is skewed, tipped scales, you’re on top. He falls to the weight of your influence.

And yeah, he’s more than fine with that. Jesus, you drag your panties down, down your thighs, your legs, then they’re reaching your ankles, pooling there for a moment before they’re being discarded, tossed somewhere on his floor — leaving behind a souvenir that yes, yes this happened.

“I can’t,” he says, burying his face into your shoulder when you take him. It’s slow, sinking onto his cock like every inch of warmth will destroy him. Maybe it will. Maybe he doesn’t care, because he deserves this. He deserves to feel after so much repression.

Or maybe, maybe he’s just become the biggest slut known to mankind. Likely.

Your body presses against his, and he thinks he’s going to disintegrate, because he feels so good. He understands now, he understands why people do this. Why it’s integral to the function of most. This is the best day of his life. This. Is. The. Best. Day. Of. His. Life.

There’s this noise, this pathetically loud whimper when you start to roll your hips— and oh your body is wet against him, and you’re so tight, and it’s perfect because he doesn’t have to do anything.

He can just sit here, look pretty, and cry.

He knows he’s a giver, that he’d bleed himself dry for you. It’s a curse, he supposes: so willing to bend backwards for the satisfaction of the people he trusts. But, this is foreign, and he wants to watch you, aimlessly stare, dumb and empty-headed as you wield his body like a weapon. Turn him into something perniciously yours.

Spencer has no reference for what an orgasm is supposed to feel like, and yeah, he’s really good at guessing in these type of situations. Because he’s rolling his thumb over your clit again, and he wants to draw it into his mouth, to see you laid out across bedsheets, writhing, unable to do anything but suffocate him with your thighs.

You clench around him, back arched, releasing a series of strained moans. With one hand tangled in his dishevelled hair, the other pressed against his chest, your face contorts, your body stiffens. There’s no way his incessant whimpering just got you off?

Okay. So you like him desperate. Point taken.

“Please— please, wanna cum. Wanna feel it so bad,” he’s slurring over his words, sentences punctured by devastating whimpers. And look at him, asking for permission, waiting even though his body has been teetering on the edge for so long now.

“Shh, shh..” you press your forehead against his, and he melts. Reoccurring theme. His hand grips your jaw, thumb pushed firmly against your chin, keeping you close. “You wanna cum for me, baby? Gonna give me your first?”

“Mhm— mhm…” is all he can say. When you pick up your pace, he has to burrow his face into the crook of your neck, whimpers messy and broken off, suppressed against your warm skin.

“Oh. Oh…” he repeats, again. Like there’s anything else he could utter, because this is earth-shattering.

It’s the sun, and all eight planets combined, and the universe collapsing in on itself, and he’s bucking, squirming, releasing into you, spilling deep.

He sobs. Breaks down. Because it’s so so good, and he can’t believe he ever deprived his body of this.

Neediest whore to ever exist, apparently.

It takes him a while to come back. Longer to regain motor function, to sink into present day. Life, and expectations, and everything, everything, your touch eradicated.

“Just… just stay like this?” he asks, collapsing against your body after he’s drawn out of you. There’s mess, evidence of your ministrations, but cleanliness seems futile when he’s blissed out, caught in a post-orgasmic haze that yes yes yes he needed so badly.

You card your hands through his hair, watch the way he stares up at you, large, widened eyes, chin resting against your chest. “Hi,” he mutters dumbly.

“Spence,” Spence, Spence, Spence. He could drown himself in that nickname.

“Yeah?” he breathes out.

“You we’re so good—“

He rolls away from you, finding a home for his face in the pillow. “Stop. Stop.” he groans, “Don’t do that. You’re going to destroy me. I’m not… equipped for this, for you. Someone should just sedate me, put me out of my misery, a coma sounds like—“

He tilts his head to the side, relinquishing, “Okay. Sorry. Meltdown over. Can we shower? Then maybe do this again? Which will make the shower inconsequential, I suppose. There’s a new documentary I want to watch, and oh, you still haven’t seen the third Star Wars—“

He’s happy, content, over the fucking moon, to be silenced with your lips. “Yeah,” he murmurs, hand interlocking with yours as you both fall back against the mattress, “Let’s do this again.”