#having been oppressed into presenting masculinely

[catholicsapphic]

“[x female saint] had to dress like a man to be taken seriously/be safe/do her job! Isn’t that terrible? 😟” well but have you considered that maybe she Wanted to dress like that?

[princessefemmelesbian]

Transandrophobia truthers are so damn racist and white oh my fucking god y'all actually piss me the fuck off every time you tokenize Black and brown men for your stupid as fuck "mra but make it trans-inclusive" ideology created by a creepy guy with a corrective rape fetish(something I'll never let up on for as long as I live, btw). If I ever see another one of y'all say "Black and brown men face discrimination because they're seen as overly masculine and that's why masculinity in men is oppressed in this society" I will literally kill myself. Stop using Black and brown men as brownie points for your bullshit arguments about misandry being real when you don't have the slightest idea how racialized oppression works. White boys are so annoying and dumb istfg.

@punkeropercyjackson @punknicodiangelo @pinkpinkstarlet

[genderqueerdykes]

if you are a trans man or masc, masculine nonbinary, genderqueer, genderfluid or other gender non conforming identity, masc gay, a bear, a butch, stud, or boi, or other masculine queer person and don't feel welcome in any queer spaces, you're not alone.

the communities both irl and online have become EXTREMELY hostile toward mascs and men to the point of straight up excluding us and changing their wording to justify their violent exclusion. from renaming nonbinary spaces to "femme & them" and "she+" spaces, to telling men & mascs that they would "Scare" the women and "nonbinary" folks just by being there, as if masculinity and manhood are inherently traumatizing to be around.

masculine and male nonbinary folks have it so hard- most nonbinary spaces are almost definitely women's spaces who also conflate womanhood with nonbinaryhood, and often times just view nonbinary people as confused women. we are not inherently traumatizing to be around: masc enbies need places to go. we are still nonbinary and still trans and still queer for fucks' sake

nonbinary has never and will never mean femme or woman-adjacent inherently. nonbinary means what it means: people who don't or refuse to adhere to the gender binary, regardless of what side it is. masculinity is included in this, femininity is not the only way to be nonbinary.

masc queers do not have to bend over backwards to try to be more feminine and thus "less threatening" in order to have places to go. that's dysphoric and just inaccurate to a lot of queer folks' identity and presentation. it blows my mind because it makes no sense, anyway, even within the gay community, hypermasculinity has been present and even sought after by some people who find it very attractive, twunks, hunks, bears... but between the periods in queer history people started viewing masc gay leathermen and kinksters as the ones who were responsible for spreading AIDS and thus removing them from pride parades,

AND the lesbian separatism moment picking up to remove butches & male & masc lesbians from lesbian spaces identity, paving the way for modern rdical femniism, we've only entered a downhill landslide of hating men and mascs and ultimately trying to erase us from the queer community entirely.

the queer community is not the "women & femmes community". the queer experience is broad and vast, it includes a wide variety of masculine and male experiences, as well as genderfluid, multigender, completely ungendered and other gendered experiences. the lesbian, trans, bisexual, nonbinary, gay and general queer communities aren't the "safe place to hide from men & mascs community" like estranged rdfems and terfpilled trans folk like to tell you they are.

this is the QUEER community and it includes ALL forms of queerness, masc, femme, butch, male, neutral, bigender, neutral, and all. he/shes and he/hims and he/theys and he/its and so on are just as much of a part of this communities as she/hers and they/thems. you can't cast a blanket of "inherently abusive" over all men and mascs and one of "inherently abused/incapable of being abusive" over all women and femmes because that just traps you in a fantasy land that doesn't exist AND it prevents mascs and men from getting the help, resources and community they NEED.

men & mascs are hurt and abused by women & femmes every day and we refuse to speak about them because we live under a white cisheteronormal patriarchy and have complaints about how that functions. the complaints are legitimate but assuming that all men and mascs are oppressing all women and femmes and that women can never be oppressive is a false as hell narrative that actively damages people.

enough is enough. this mindset is hurting people. it's leaving masc and male queers to be estranged, harmed and even dead. i care about you if you're being affected by this mentality and these behaviors. you deserve community, safety, and a sense of belonging, you do belong, even if we struggle to form our own spaces due to unjust hatred. we will do our best to band together and keep each other safe. we must

[cowboy-heart]

'interview with a butch' - a fake interview reflecting on butch-femme dynamics! inspired by the amazing piece by @llovely, which you can read here :)

(ID below read more)

[an original, interview-style poem called 'interview with a butch':

when did you know you were butch? I knew by the time I was sixteen, but that’s only when I found the word. I’ve been butch since the day I was born, at least since I was just a few months old and threw an earth-shattering tantrum whenever my mum tried to put me in a dress. (both laugh) your poor mum!

I remember being a little butch knight, chivalrous even before I was double digits. my best friend only lived up the road from school, but her parents were running late and she was scared to do it herself. so I walked her up the hill, her arm linked in mine, pride balancing on my chest. and when I got her to her door, I said that we should kiss like adults do when they say goodbye, and we took it in turns to kiss each other on each cheek. when I walked home I felt something the size of a boulder in my stomach, but I didn’t know what it meant yet, just that there was something about myself that set me apart.

how did you feel with your first femme? oh, man, even for a writer that’s hard to find the words for. (laugh) let’s put it this way: before I had my first femme, I always felt like something was missing in my relationships – not just in the relationship itself, but in me. I felt broken and wrong, unsatisfied and selfish. I thought that maybe I just had too high expectations or something. hell, even with sex I felt like something was missing, like I couldn’t find my own desire.

But then, then I had my first femme. How graphic can I be here? (laugh) as graphic as you want! okay, good!

watching my stomach hang over my harness, long nails in my hips, I felt like I had a second sexual awakening. I felt the most present in my body I’d ever been, and like I could be in them forever. I didn’t feel dissatisfied, or wrong. when their hand held mine and played with my fingers I felt lightning shoot through me. it was like realising I was a lesbian all over again. but even outside of romance, femmes are my friends, my family, my community. talking to femmes, being around femmes, I’ve never felt so seen and loved. I can handle every sharp look, every slur thrown my way, just because my armour was polished by femmes.

do you find your roles restrictive? they’re liberating. I think sometimes people see me and think that I had to fit into this constrictive box, that I disallowed myself to enjoy anything feminine. the reality is that for butches, we find the word we’ve been searching for our whole lives. I can’t even remember finding the word, isn’t that crazy? it felt second nature. it somehow perfectly described everything I’d ever felt, exposed me to a community of people who were just like me outside of my Tory town! (pause)

I think there’s a tendency even in leftist, LGBT spaces to think that masculinity is oppressive, and femininity is liberating and oppressed. but it’s really not like that. we’re punished for deviating from our assigned gender, whether you’re a masculine woman, or a feminine man, or something in between the two. I’ve had gay men try to convince me to let them do my makeup, I’ve had gay women tell me that they’re “so glad” I don’t have ‘toxic masculinity’ like “other butches”. femininity was a cage for me, something I had to imitate to survive the perils of high school, but it was never me. masculinity liberated me, and it’s not inherently toxic. I love to carry the bags, hold open the doors, cry in pride, protect those I love. and there’s nothing like coming home at the end of the day to a sweet femme, ready to rub my tired muscles. man, I’m not good at concise answers, am I? (both laugh) no, but I love it!

what do you think of people who see your relationship as heteronormative? they’re twats! (both laugh) now, that’s a concise answer! no, no that’s not fair. here’s what I’d say to them:

I see it as…a complex gender performance. no, that makes it sound like it’s play pretend. they’re complex gender…expressions, dynamics, play, desire, euphoria. a butch and a femme together is no more heterosexual than a bear and a twink, a top and a bottom. it’s a dance that we know in our bones, like we knew each other in a previous lifetime and we’re just falling back into our favoured rhythm. even every fumble and awkward gesture is a part of it. we fall into sync and into each other, we tenderise each other’s gender, affirm it, and love every minute of it. we’re not two sides of the same coin, you talk to any butch-femme couple and chances are our priori (edit: interviewee meant propositions) are the same but our conclusions are not; we’re the same side of the same coin, just one is the top of the tail and the other is the bottom of it. is that a euphemism? (laugh) take it as you will!

I’m no man, my femme is no woman, and I’m no less butch when I’m wearing a kiss-the-cook apron and cleaning their kitchen, and they’re no less femme when they’re putting together a shelf or driving me to work. To look at us and see a heteronormative imitation of cisgender predetermination is proof of their own lack of nuance – do you think all dogs are boys and all cats are girls, too? (both laugh)

I think in a lot of ways, butch-femme dynamics are inherently transsexual. or, in the very least, good friends of transgenderism. If you can’t see us for what we are then chances are you’ve got your own internalised gender biases to unlearn.

I’ve always been butch to my bones, but when I’m with my baby I’m on cloud nine. I feel desired, my gender revered and loved.

so, what you’re saying is, you feel seen? I do. we see each other and nurture each other. I’ve never really liked being called ‘beautiful’, but when it falls from the lips of a femme, I know that they’re not seeing me as feminine. I feel most comfortable to explore the depths of both my femininity and masculinity with them; I don’t feel restricted to a role.

maybe that’s what people are missing about it: our homes are temples of gender exploration and devotion.

end ID].

[genderkoolaid]

I am currently taking a sociology and gender studies course in college, and it’s been really fun so far. But I feel kinda weird whenever the teacher brings up masculinity and femininity, and just certain gender stuff in general. I talked to her about my concerns, and she assured me that she was going to be adding stuff by trans and nonbinary scholars later in the course. But the thing that’s bothering me is the seeming lack of mention of trans men.

One of the things that stood out was when we were discussing patriarchy and she defined it as the subordination of femininity to masculinity. Which, like, yeah, but expressing masculinity isn’t rewarded in those expected to be feminine. And it feels as though the teacher is missing some important nuance.

I am not really sure I’m explaining it properly, but I was wondering if you had any suggestions of things I could read or do to make sure I am able to argue for trans masculinity if it does become a problem. Because right now I just have weird vibes but am unsure how to argue my point.

Ahhhh I've been in a very similar situation. I hope your professor is more amenable to critique than mine.

Here are some articles that come to mind:

Tracing a Ghostly Memory in My Throat: Reflections on Ftm Feminist Voice and Agency by C. Jacob Hale

Trans. Panic. Some Thoughts toward a Theory of Feminist Fundamentalism by Bobby Noble (also the author of the book Sons of the Movement: FtMs Risking Incoherence on a Post-Queer Cultural Landscape)

Trans. Feminism: Or, Reading Like A Depressed Transsexual by Cameron Awkward-Rich

Both Eraserhead and TERFs, Trans Mascs, and Two Steve Feminism by Jude Doyle examine the relationship between transmascs, oppression & feminism and expose the flaws in how feminism tends to approach transmasc issues

All of those are available online & are explorations by transmasculine feminists of the relationship between transmasculinity and feminism, encouraging people to think critically about feminism and what the transmasc experience teaches us about the patriarchy. Jude Doyle's work in particular is approachable and hits directly on many of the problems with how cis feminists tend to approach transmasculinity in feminism. bell hooks work on masculinity/manhood is also very valuable although it does not discuss transmasculinity directly, especially because she focuses more on the impact of race & class.

You could also bring up specific examples of anti-transmasc violence. This BBC article about the camionas of Chile, for example shows how for people seen as female, being masculine can be dangerous in ways that those who perform femininity are not affected by. There's a long history of masculinity in people seen as female being labeled a kind of madness, hysteria, and/or schizophrenia, and people being institutionalized as a result– this has been happening for centuries and is still very present in the world today.

It is blatantly obvious in the lived experiences of transmasculinized people that patriarchal oppression cannot be fully described by "femininity is subordinate to masculinity." And why would any feminist framework that was developed without the recognition of trans people be able to account for our experiences? Feminism that is not willing to be challenged on pretty fundamental levels by transness is not productive feminism. We need to have as much a voice in anti-patriarchal theorization as cis women. To get there, cis feminists need to realize just how deep trans & transmasc erasure runs, how entirely our experiences have been left out, how much of patriarchy & gender is left untheorized by cisfeminism because we cannot fit neatly into cis frameworks.

[velvetvexations]

It really bothers me how the response to the whole dropout thing is being framed. Let's face it, most people aren't saying 'you're wrong for wanting more transfem rep on dropout' like it's being framed. I agree that it would be good to see more transfems on dropout! That's not the issue with the discourse. My main issues with it are:

-it being framed as TME/TMA, which among other issues, essentially implies that cis men and cis women are adequate representation for transmasc and transneutral people who were afab. Their own gender doesn't need to be represented, anyone who is not 'TMA' counts as representation for 'TMEs'

-it's based on appearance and speculation about the cast members agab. We literally do not know most of these people's agab. You cannot always reliably tell what gender someone was assigned at birth. Not to mention, agab is not the be-all-end-all of what oppression you face and how you'll be perceived. Intersex people exist. You can be afab but then go through a masculinizing puberty. You can be amab and go through a femininizing puberty. Many intersex people are assigned one at birth and then discover that they are intersex later when they don't develop in the way that's expected of someone with their agab.

-Misrepresenting the data. This was entirely unnecessary and makes it hard to take the argument in good faith. If you just counted each cast member once, it would still show that there's less representation for transfems than transmascs, and it would be more accurate. But counting it by appearance, they massively inflated the numbers of 'TMEs' since Ally Beardsley alone shows up hundreds of times. That's not a sensible way to compare the data. They very clearly picked which way to present the data to make it as extreme and attention grabbing as possible, at the cost of accurately representing the data in question. And I believe intentionally representing things in a way that is less accurate just to get people to agree with you is wrong. If you have a good point, you shouldnt have to misrepresent the data to make it. And they DIDNT HAVE TO. There IS less transfem rep. The point could have been made while still being accurate, it just wouldn't have been as attention grabbing and gotten all of those outage reblogs. But if this is really about representation and not getting attention on tumblr, that shouldn't matter, right?

I also just... don't think this is an effective way to to about it? It seems like it's more about finding another way to be praised for complaining about 'TMEs' than it is about actually improving the representation. Like, if you want better representation, why not do something about it other than posting on tumblr? You could write to dropout and let them know how much trans representation means to you and that you'd love to see more transfems on their shows. I suspect a few messages like that would do a lot more good than all of this discourse. Lets be real, when has tumblr discourse EVER brought about real, meaningful change?

We did get someone to stop taking bones from a graveyard once, ten years ago.

Thank you for all of this anon, it's very well said.

[corviddusk]

It's genuinely difficult being someone who is deeply pro transmasc and believes that they do experience specific oppression but don't think transandrophobia as a theory does a good job at explaining why and falls into anti-feminist, misogynistic pitfalls.

No I don't hate transmascs just because I find the idea that they're systematically oppressed by misandry ludicrous. They're oppressed by misogyny and the patriarchy. They're not hated because they're masculine or men they're hated because they're trans. Trans men are men, and that also means they do get some systemic power over women. That doesn't mean they're less oppressed on merit of their transness but that they are slightly less oppressed on basis of identity and presentation as a man rather than a woman in many cases.

I've been accused of hating trans men numerous times and it annoys me to no end. I was a trans boy then man for a decade. Yes I'm transfem now but I know what it's like. My partner is transmasc, many friends are transmasc and I will do everything to help them.

But no I reclaimed a slur and care about transmisogyny so I must despise trans men. If you think caring about transfems goes against transmascs then you have a problem with the way you view transmascs.

[idolomantises]

If you could change some things about Arcane's writing what would they be? Oh and do you consider Vi a butch woman bc I also see alot of differing opinions on that. I'll understand if you don't want to answer tho

Vi isn’t butch, though she’s more masculine presenting. That said I think these kind of debates are silly.

In terms of changes to arcane’s writing

-just fucking scrap Mel and Sky as love interests for Viktor and Jayce. I don’t even know why they even bothered doing that if they were just going to go “oh by the way neither of them have romantic feelings for them” at the last minute

-Caitlyn should have been the main villain, not Ambessa. I love Ambessa but she does not work as a main antagonist because she has no connection to this location other than wanting power. But Caitlyn had a gradual and believable villain downfall. You believed she truly was doing things for the greater good and it made more sense than Ambessa blindly trusting some guy just because he promised to supply her weapons.

-Vi and Caitlyn didn’t need to be a couple and just… remove that sex scene

-don’t bring Vander back

-Don’t???? Have Jinx fake her death and run away? I really despise how they basically pulled the “reformed villain dies at the last minute” card with her character. I can’t see Jinx entirely being good but her just abandoning everyone and everything really sucks. Especially since Jinx was like “I should die to break the cycle” and Ekko was like “omg no don’t do that” and then she just… fakes her death. I feel like they just reaffirmed her belief that her death would be for the better

-remove Isha

-remove that damn witch subplot

-the “teaming up to defeat the bad guy” angle did not work here and I honestly felt kind of sick watching a bunch of abused and oppressed people put on cop gear to help a city clean up their own messes

As I’m typing this I realize like. This entire season just needs a do-over. There’s not a single decision they made that I like… except Singed winning I honestly love how him being a two faced coward paid off.

[theashesofthefirststar]

We need to talk about homophobia in the helluva boss fandom because there is no fucking way this comment(about Stolas) should have over 11,000 likes

And this isn’t the only one. People make comments like this about Stolas (and other fictional effeminate gay men) all the time. Worse, they make comments like this about real people!!! It just happens more in fandom spaces because its safer to project bigoted views onto fictional characters without the worry of push back. The issue is, you share these spaces with real people. You share these spaces with real gender non conforming gay/queer men who will see these comments.

Not only that, but the way you engage with minority characters can sometimes be an expression of internalized biases. Especially if it’s a pattern. Sometimes it’s more explicit, like those ass holes who complain when a person of color is casted in their favorite nerd franchise. Other times it’s more subtle, like consistently being overly critical of characters of color in a way you’re not with white characters.

“But twink isn’t a slur” yall say.

I know a lot of y’all are young, so I’m going to take this in good faith and explain it to you. Using a word associated with queerness to criticize a person is using coded language.

Coded language consists of seemingly neutral terms that individuals use to negatively describe identity and thus maintain oppressive power structures.

An example of this I saw growing up was Adam Lambert on American Idol. He was closeted to the public, but most people clocked him as a gay man. The judges were constantly saying he couldn’t win because he was too “theatrical”. This was their coded way of saying “too gay” because theatrics, or theater in general, is largely associated with the gay community.

Historically, gender non conforming gay men have been subject to more criticism and outward bigotry than masculine presenting men. Because they’re seen as being a bigger threat to the patriarchy.

(And when I say historically, I mean this was happening in the times of ancient Rome and Greece)

This is why a lot of queer people also feel comfortable using twink in a derogatory way. Because yeah, they might be gay, but they’re not like those weird gays with the winy voice. They see themselves as respectable queers, even if on a subconscious level.

So here’s the rule: if you’re using twink as a synonym for something negative, that’s homophobia. If you’re calling a person a twink while simultaneously insulting them, that’s homophobia. Lastly, if you still don’t buy into what I’m saying, ask yourself why we don’t use terms associated with masculine queerness(like bear) while criticizing people in the same large scale way.

[macksting]

"I still want to make things, but perhaps I should just keep them to myself for the time being. For anyone that cares, I’ll still be continuing Heart of Elynthi and the JOmega charity, but once those are finished I will be taking an indefinite break from posting anything online. It’s a decision I’ve considered ever since the first hate wave from about a year or so ago but wanted to sit on it and see if the feeling would persist. I know now this is the best choice for me."

If I catch anybody celebrating this, I am going to eat your kneecaps. This guy is a sweetheart, I have friends who needed the sort of kind, GNC representation of masculinity he presented earnestly, he was humble and respectful and tried to use his platform for good, and you fucking miserable little shitheads, you pearl-clutching jackasses, decided to take one video out of context and make a crusade out of it. Why don't y'all pick a fight that matters? You think Cop City is gonna crumble because you chased someone offline who was supportive of trans folks and was glad to have been liberated from cishet society? Do you think the world is a better place now? If I find anyone celebrating this, I will be eating the forbidden plantain chips that are their fucking kneecaps. I may even let them have a bite. Yes I am fucking angry about this. Is it that important compared to everything else in the world right now? No, but you made one guy's life hell for no good reason, and that's horrible. Die in a fire. And to be clear, I am not angry about this on his behalf. He did not ask me to be angry. He does not most likely want anybody to face consequences for being a shit-eating little cop who feels good about themselves for crusading against a guy who is using his platform to help trans folks because we helped him too. This is for me. This is because I want a world liberated from oppression, not one where folks recreate it in miniature hoping this time they'll be the Big Man and everyone else will be oppressed, so they pick fights they know they can win just to abuse and belittle someone to feel good about themselves.

He was sweet. He still is. And I hope he lives a better life far away from this.

[certifiedsexed]

hey there! i don’t mean this in bad faith at all, and i’m not trying to use a term that’s a fascist dogwhistle. i promise i’m just confused😭

so i’m not a guy, nor have i ever been perceived as one, but in one of your recent posts, you said that men can’t experience oppression solely based on the fact that they’re men. which was kind of confusing to me — i don’t think you’re wrong, i think it’s me but i don’t know how to get to how you see it like that.

because in my experience, men can experience oppression because they’re men, although i don’t know if i’m saying that right or conflating the meanings of certain terms. i’m probably wrong, and would just love some clarification?

for example, my brother and i were always held to different standards growing up — it was expected of me to always cry and be emotional, and i was a ‘stone cold bitch’ if that wasn’t the case, but if my brother wanted to show negative emotions like sadness he was treated like there was something wrong with him too. and i know it wasn’t my brother — i spend a lot of time working with my high school’s diversity team, and in a lot of the events we organise, guys talk about how they feel enormous pressure to be angry and never sad, and to have stereotypically masculine interests and never deviate from that norm.

i also know men who’ve struggled to get jobs such as teaching as those are viewed as ‘female’ jobs and it’s a common view that men who want those jobs are ‘only in it to be around kids’. i’ve heard many women around me perpetuate sentiments like that, so i know they’re not making it up, even if it isn’t equal to the systematic oppression women face in almost every aspect of their careers.

i’m not providing these examples to prove you wrong, since i do think you’re right. i’m hoping that a window into the way i’ve always thought might help you clarify this in a way that can help me to change my mind, since i just think i’m lacking some clarity or context here. i think i’m conflating abuse and stereotypes with oppression, but i’m really not sure. any advice would be really appreciated!

i’m so sorry if this comes off badly, i don’t mean it that way. i’m just trying to learn, i promise i’m not trying to promote the kind of hate and close mindedness you’ve been seeing in your inbox as of late.

Hi! As always, I do not mind answering genuine questions!

The things you're talking about growing up and seeing boys around you pressured to present only certain emotions, that's part of the patriarchy!

Certain emotions are supposed to be "feminine" and thus boys shouldn't show them, while girls are often always considered "emotional" in some fashion. That's not oppression based on those boys being men that you're talking about.

It's the backlash that the patriarchy, and by addition trans/misogyny has on men. It's boys being pressured not to show certain emotions because those emotions are "feminine" and they're supposed to associate feminimity with weakness and shit.

What you're talking about there is also trans/misogyny!

The idea that men who do things perceived as feminine are predators, the idea that specific jobs are "female" jobs [while even in those specific female jobs, men are generally paid better and find it easier to get into those jobs than women trying to get into traditionally "male" jobs"]

[Though obviously this varies based on race and whether they're trans, etc, etc.]

To be a little more clear, all of the things you're talking about don't primarily affect cis men/boys. They fuck up transfems, because it's trans/misogyny.

You're right! It's not systemic oppression.

You might wonder if it's social oppression, which is also a no. Social oppression would require a historical/systemic oppression behind it. But that doesn't exist in this case.

What it is is the common issue oppressors run into. While they benefit greatly from oppression, there is also backlash they face from their own systems of oppression.

Like white people who fall into suicide cults trying to work towards white supremacy, or TERFs who fall into groups where they slowly pick each other off as they discover they're not all exactly the same and wind up accusing each other of not being "real" women, systems of bigotry simply do not work out perfectly even for the oppressors.

They never do.

To create the patriarchy, you must establish trans/misogyny, you must establish intersexism and you must push people to conform to those ideals, even if they hurt your own.

It's similar to how white supremacy can harm white people, despite white people obviously not being oppressed racially. The backlash of oppression hits even the oppressors sometimes.

Suppression, as a term, would honestly work far better to describe what you're talking about.

So yes, it's stereotyping, yes it's abusive to tell your children not to show/feel their emotions but it's not oppression based on these guys in your life being men! It's part of how trans/misogyny, transphobia and intersexism are enforced.

I understand exactly where you're coming from! It doesn't sound bad and I genuinely don't mind answering questions! Especially since you've got some good ones!

I'm not sure if I rambled too much to explain this properly but I hope this helps! Let me know if you have any other questions and/or need me to clarify anything here. <33

[feminist-furby-freak]

Could you elaborate on how gender ideology is misogynistic?

Sure. So gender ideology (see previous ask for how I define it) is misogynistic because it denies the present and historical reality of the sex-based oppression of women, reinforces the gender binary through its obsession with gender and gender roles, and jeopardizes women’s safety by privileging AGP men. Here are some examples:

It erases gender non conformity as a normal expression of the self. We see this through the “transing” of gender non conforming children and adults, particularly feminine gay men and masculine lesbian women. TRAs love to scream that we (GCs and TERFs) are obsessed with gender roles and uncomfortable with gender non conformity when they are the ones that promote the idea that men who present feminine and women who present masculine actually need to transition. I know so many detrans butch women who were told as teens and young women that they needed testosterone and surgery to fix them. What is more regressive than telling GNC people they actually need to become the opposite gender?

It denies the reality of sex and sex-based oppression. There are two camps for gender ideologists: gender identity is more important to one’s lived experience than their biological sex and gender is real but biological sex is not. Both of these ideas are misogynistic and false. Women’s subjugation for millennia across the world is not due to their “gender identity.” To say that femaleness isn’t real or that it is something an individual chooses to be is to say that women opt/opted into their oppression, or worse, that sex-based oppression never existed at all. How does the taliban chose which children can go to school? Do you think they go up to every child and ask them their gender identity? Of course not. It is unbelievable how TRAs have brainwashed so many people into denying the existence oldest and most universal form of oppression. This falsehood is so prevalent in academic spaces it has created a revisionist history and permeated science and medical research. Periods, pregnancy, and women’s health issues are now considered TERFy and we have to do this linguistic dance with dehumanizing terminology to discuss our own bodies. Ideology is more important than reality and medical authorities are parroting lies (TIMs can safely breastfeed, puberty is reversible, testerone does not have dangerous side effects) with no scientific basis without repercussion.

It privileges trans identified men over women. Gender ideology is not more scientifically or psychologically sound than gender critical ideology. Gender ideology has been arbitrarily accepted as The Truth by the left. TRAs will say that it is the compassionate or moral opinion and thus correct but this privileges the interests of trans identifying men over the interests of women. After all, morality is subjective. Take sports for example, women want a fair chance to participate in athletics and trans identifying males want to be validated by playing in female sports. The two interests conflict but the left has decided that the wants of the male athletes are more important than the wants of the female athletes, and this is treated as the obvious morally correct stance. But is it so obvious? I don’t think so. Nobody can answer why trans identifying males (because let’s be real trans identifying females never get special privileges) are prioritized over everyone else.

Feel free to send another ask if you have more questions.

[genderqueerdykes]

My MtF friend and I got on the topic of TME/TMA bullshit the other day and she pointed out something I wanted to share (with her permission) "The whole concept of TME/TMA can even result in trans women never wanting to come out to avoid being associated with such shitty believes. If my first interactions in the trans community was someone who believed in it I would probably never admit to myself that I was trans cuz I don't want to associate with a group whose entire personality seems to be victimizing the trauma olympics I-Am-The-Main-Character all in one. Hell they would've probably told me I wasn't actually a trans woman just because my egg cracked late and exclude me anyway."

thank you so much for taking the time to send this, i really appreciate it, because your friend said it better than i ever could've.

I don't want to associate with a group whose entire personality seems to be victimizing the trauma olympics I-Am-The-Main-Character all in one.

this is something i've been wanting to flat out say for a while, so thank you very much for this. it literally is very VERY petty behavior at this point and i'm not humoring it anymore. we have to call things for what they are and admit that a lot of transfems are using this as an opportunity to wallow in their misery so they can control others to make themselves feel better because they feel powerless in cisheteronormative patriarchy. it's not fun or quirky or progressive.

i am very much over making queerness about who is the most oppressed or who is the biggest victim. i feel like a lot of people forgot what a victim complex is for the sake of mining pats on the back from strangers. so many transfeminine people right now are replacing their personalities with being a victim and it needs to come to an end. womanhood is not about being a victim, no matter how hard that woman has it. a lot of transfems genuinely do have this "I Am The Main Character" behavior. a lot of transfems genuinely do believe they are the protagonists of the queer community due to how bad they have it. we have to call it for what it is at this point. it's not an attack to say it.

i've been trying to point this out for quite a while: the TME/TMA binary and man/masc hating in general hurts trans women who are questioning, just now learning about transness, stealth, need to stay in the closet, are never transition, who struggle to pass, who don't want to pass, who are butch, who are gender non conforming, and those who are also men. but this especially hurts questioning and newly introduced trans women because nobody wants to be told that they're shitty for being a man one day, and then babied and patted on the back for being a woman the next. the whiplash from that would be damaging alone

your friend brings up a good point too because what about the trans women whose eggs crack later in life? what about those who don't realize they're a woman until they're in their 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s...? what about trans women who only interact with or present their womanhood sometimes? what about trans women who are content being seen as a man in society, but still identify as a woman inside? what about the trans women who don't ever want to tell another soul but are still women despite that?

this behavior hurts genderfluid and butch transfems a lot. this behavior harms masculine trans women so badly. there are transfeminine butches that want to present butch and i don't care if you read them as a "Cishet man" that's a trans butch and they're not obligated to be less masculine for anyone to accept them. trans butches face so much bullshit for how they dress, appear and act. i'm sorry not everyone's womanhood is feminine, but transfeminine butches deserve to present however the hell they want to and not have anyone call their identity into question.

it really affects trans women who don't pass, don't try to or don't want to.

it really affects trans women of color.

this behavior hurts so many people and i really want everyone to understand a lot of those people... are trans women. please be more considerate of those around you. thanks for taking the time to send this anon, i really appreciate it. you can let your friend know that was deeply insightful & exactly a point i've been trying to make for months. thank you both. have a great week, stay safe

[hillbillyoracle]

So I saw this screencap earlier

And I thought it was a great chance to talk about something.

A lot of progressive folks are familiar with the fact that right wing circles use feminine as a derogatory term and that there's a real cost to that for women.

What people are less familiar with is how it hurts men - queer and straight, cis and trans.

And I'm not shocked given how common it is in left leaning spaces to be reactionary (read: dismissive or outright harass) when men try to talk about these what these issues look like for them.

When men talk about how they've experienced toxic masculinity and anti-feminine bias, in addition to the usual right wing responses, I'm starting to see a bunch of supposed feminists and trans/queer allies harass them as well - saying they're hurting women/feminine presenting folks by "centering men", dismissing their concerns as made up (even when there's research to back it up), "why aren't you talking about what this is like for cis and trans women instead??".

I've seen trans men accused of being TERFs or being liars (by other trans people even - wtf) when they talk about their experiences of allies actively excluding them from trans spaces or harassing them for using T4T tags. I've seen men be accused of lying about publicly accessible clinical research that shows men make up 75%-77% of suicide cases - or worse suggest they deserve it. I see posts about how men's complaints "aren't unique to them" and dismiss them because women also suffer things those authors assume are the same (even when the research contradicts this).

And here's the thing:

When you assume feminine=good/safe/gentle and masculine=bad/unsafe/enemy - you're parroting a conservative talking point.

There is no way around this fact.

A big part of what underpins child rearing being "the woman's domain" in conservatism, is the idea that men are inherently dangerous and therefore shouldn't really be around children without women present.

The reason why they blame women for abuse and rape - because they believe men are inherently dangerous and if a woman trusted them then it's her fault.

Part of why women have been effectively banned from many trades and careers for so long is the assumption that being around that many men presents an inherent danger to a woman.

"But!" you might be saying, "This person is clearly talking about men engaging in open conflict as good here!"

Yeah because conservatives see politics as an inherently male/dangerous/toxic sphere and uphold it as such.

I could go on and on really.

All of this is to say - please be more thoughtful in what you consume, comment, and reblog.

There are experiences specific to being masculine. Erasing that is one, a dick move, but two, particularly violent toward those talking about trans masculine, minority masculine, disabled masculine, and queer masculine experiences.

All privilege comes at a cost. Listening when people talk about that cost is key building a new more fair reality. Seeing the privilege is not worth the cost makes fervent allies. Want more allies? Don't be a dick to people having that realization.

Push back against the assumption of woman=good and man=bad when you see it - especially in community spaces. The amount of times I've seen domestic violence services only available to women is insane...

Do not let identarian politics blind you to the fact we're all human and working toward our own liberation should not come at the oppression of another. Believe me, those with real power would much rather you stay raging out at men in a similar class with you than directing your efforts at them.

The right wing wants you to believe it's either/or. Fuck that - it's both/and.

[genderkoolaid]

Intro to Anti-transmasculinity (ATM)

(also ft. an about me section)

Defining ATM:

Anti-transmasculinity refers to the systematic oppression of transmasculinity. “Transmasculinity” refers to the concept of people seen as female having a masculine or manly gender or gender expression*. Other terms used for this are transandrophobia, transmisandry, and transmascphobia.

In 1963, feminist Betty Freidan described misogyny as “the problem with no name,” illustrating how at the time, women’s language to understand, describe and communicate their oppression was underdeveloped. Anti-transmasculinity has been, similarly, a problem with no name; transmasculine people have not had the language or framework to understand, describe, and communicate our oppression. Transmasculinity suffers from erasure, often called “invisibility”. This does not protect transmasculine people from violence; it silences us to prevent us from speaking out against, or realizing, the violence done to us. It alienates us from our history, our brothers, siblings and sisters, and ourselves, by preventing transmasculinity from being seen, heard, discussed, or considered. For more posts of mine and others that help expand on the theory of anti-transmasculinity, see my #theory tag.

*This is not my definition of transmasculinity as an identity. This definition is for the form of transness targeted by transphobia, which is based around the idea of "female/woman trying to be male/a men." My definition of transmasculinity as an identity is any form of masculinity or manhood that is trans* in nature, regardless of presentation or assigned sex. I make this distinction because a GNC man assigned male could see his manhood as trans, but be targeted by transphobia based around the idea of a man trying to be a woman.

Who can be affected by ATM?:

Anyone can suffer from anti-transmasculinity, regardless of gender, sex or sexuality. Anti-transmasculine violence targets perceived transmasculinity, which means anyone perceived as transmasculine can be victimized. That is not the extent of how people are affected, though; people who perceive themselves to be transmasculine, consciously or unconsciously, or who have traits associated with transmasculinity can also be affected by witnessing anti-transmasculinity.

(TW: transphobic murder)

People who are associated with transmasculinity (such as partners, friends, and family of transmasculine people) can also be affected, not just through emotional pain but targeted for physical violence. As an example, Italian cis woman Maria Paola Gaglione was murdered by her brother to "teach her a lesson" after she got engaged to a trans man.

Who can be anti-transmasculine?:

Anyone can be anti-transmasculine, regardless of gender, sex, or sexuality. It is a systemic way of thinking that is spread throughout society and culture, and reproduces itself constantly in people's thoughts and actions.

Who benefits from anti-transmasculinity?:

In the grand scheme of things, everyone suffers from the restrictive nature of transphobia. However, in general, only cisgender, gender-conforming people systematically benefit from anti-transmasculinity. Other trans* people do not; trans* people do not systematically benefit from each other’s oppression.

* *trans is a way of writing “trans” that emphasizes it as a broad umbrella term inclusive of everyone who trangresses gender and sex norms

Is ATM caused by “misandry”?

In transunity theory, “misandry” is used to refer to the way that gender roles around manhood/masculinity are weaponized to harm marginalized people, (in this case) specifically trans* people; trans* people are viewed as having the worst traits of both masculinity and femininity, as well as the inherent negativity associated with androgyny. In this sense, anti-transmasculinity does involve misandry, as do anti-transfeminity* and exorsexism**. However, all of these also involve misogyny and misandrogyny***. Which one of these is more dominant varies between types of transphobia, as well as the individuals doing the violence and the ones experiencing it.

To quote this article, "Misandry [...] can never reliably be prevented from collapsing into transphobia."

*i use anti-transfemininity (ATF) as a companion to anti-transmasculinity, as an alternative to “transmisogyny.” This is because, as I explain, my philosophy on transphobia is that all transphobias are inherently misogynistic and all trans* people experience the intersection of misogyny. Additionally, transunity theory frames transphobia as being the intersection of many forms of gendered bigotry, so using the “anti-” terms lets me talk about these transphobias without having to specify it by only one kind (like -misogyny or -androphobia)

** exorsexism refers to oppression of people who violate the gender or sex binaries; it includes intersexism, but also oppression against non-binary people.

*** misandrogyny is the hatred of/bigotry against androgyny, a companion to misogyny and misandry. “androgyny” here refers to anything outside the exclusive male/female binary; examples of misandrogyny are violence done when someone cannot tell someone’s gender/sex, and the idea of nonbinary and genderqueer language as immature, annoying, and pointless, while binary language is considered mature, normal, and useful.

Evidence of ATM:

I have the tags #examples of transandrophobia and #experiences with transandrophobia; the first is posts showing transandrophobia in action, and the second is people describing the transandrophobia they have experienced or witnessed.

I also keep the Archive of Violence Against Trans*masculine People, which keeps a record of events of anti-transmasculine violence. This includes murder, rape, abuse, physical assault, harassment, and the suicides of transmasculine people. Also on this archive is a list of academic research & writing related to anti-transmasculinity; the studies provide more objective evidence of the systemic oppression transmasculine people face, and analyses which can help with understanding how anti-transmasculinity works.

You can also look at @transandrophobia-archive which collects examples of anti-transmasculine Tumblr posts.

Info on Me:

I’m genderqueer, transsexual, and a transvestite; I am a man and a woman and neither (all of which affect each other), and identify with both transmasc, transfem, and transother. I’m also aromantic + greysexual. My sexuality is everything everywhere all at once.

Originally this blog was just made for me to process and deal with my own internalized anti-transmasculinity, but then people liked what I wrote and now its a place where I talk about queer issues & related things I find important.

I’m multiply disabled (both physically and mentally) and I struggle with answering asks; if I don’t answer you for a while feel free to just send your ask again, I will not mind. Also feel free to ask me to explain anything in plain language if you have difficulty understanding something. I don’t mind educating people or helping people find resources, as long as you are respectful and are in good faith and all that.

I am going into philosophy and sociology with a focus on religion, and run @transtheology where I collect posts on trans-affirming spirituality and religion. If you have any questions or want advice related to transness and spirituality/religion (or madness & spirituality/religion) I’d love to help you the best I can.

If you would like to support me, here’s my kofi

Further Resources:

""Transandrophobia" Primer" by nothorses

"As a transfem, what's your insight on the way transmascs are treated when talking about their experiences?" by cipheramnesia

"This is just your regular free-of-charge reminder that when people argue that transandrophobia does not exist, or that its not important enough to talk about, they are explicitly saying they don't care about sexual assault victims or victims of suicide (among other things)" by nothorses

"Transandrophobia Posts Masterpost- 2022" by transgentlemanluke

Pinned post with links to discussions about transandrophobia, baeddelism, and other issues by nothorses

"What is transandophobia actually?" by transmasc-pirate, with additions by doberbutts and psychoticallytrans

"Transandrophobic Fundamentals and the Intersections of Trans Masc Marginalization" by none-gender-left-man

"Hello, I apologise if you've already received questions like this, but can you explain why you would say that transmisandry/androphobia is distinct from misogyny?" by transfaguette

"I Am A Transwoman. I Am In The Closet. I Am Not Coming Out." by Jennifer Coates

This conversation between doberbutts and folly-of-alexandria

Transandrophobia Explained carrd, by myself

Transmisogyny is not the intersection of transphobia and misogyny by luckyladylily

This post on misogyny, misandry, and transandrophobia by thorne1345

"tumblr can make fun of Blizzard’s Oppression Calculator all they want, that’s exactly how people act with discourse poisoned queer discussions" by cardentist

Invisible Men: FTMs and Homelessness in Toronto by the FTM Safer Shelter Project Research Team

On Hating Men (And Becoming One) by Noah Zazanis

There is a hidden epidemic of violence against transmasculine people by Orion Rodriguez

“Irl we just kiss”: ‘transmasc vs transfem’ discourse & reactionary ‘boys vs girls’ politics in trans spaces by S.L Void

Making Sense Out of the Murders of Trans Men by Mitch Kellaway

Collateral Damage: mathematical odds & the sum of survival. by S.L Void

Op-ed: Trans Men Experience Far More Violence Than Most People Assume by Loree Cook-Daniels

How the Criminalization of Testosterone Attacks Gender Variant People by Adryan Corcione

A Tale of a Trans Man in Pakistan by Ikra Javed

Not transmasc invisibility, but erasure: intricacies of transmasc invisibility, and the fallacies of strictly gendered transphobia by S.L Void

Girlboy Boygirl Blues: antitransmasculinity as a denial of individual history & more by S.L Void

The r/transandrophobia subreddit

[jespy-wespy]

The sexualization and mischaracterization of queer (relation)ships: Arcane edition

In a relationship between 2 people of the same gender one does not need to present more masculine/feminine than the other. They do not need to fit into the category of one being purely dominant over the other. This is something I think Arcane has done really well. But just because the show did good, does not mean the fans will.

Something I have noticed within fan art+fiction is the feminization and weakness of Caitlyn. I scroll through Tumblr and pass image and image of Caitvi art where Vi is hugging Caitlyn, taking the lead, being the "dominant one". Vi has her arms, very large, with defined muscles, wrapped around Caitlyn's skinny ones, which have no muscle definition. Caitlyn is drawn with softer, more femmine features, given a shorter stature than Vi, and is usually pictured in the purple camisole she wore once.

This is simply not who either of them are.

In Arcane, Caitlyn is defined by being a powerful sharp shooter. Later by being a ruthless cop, a brutal dictator, and a powerful warrior, even with out a gun. We see her training with Ambessa, while not holding the same level of skill, Caitlyn is able to physically hold her own. Caitlyn has never been shown as weak. She has never been someone to need or ask for protection. She can barely if ever be considered a femme, if people really feel the need to stick some meaningless sub title on her.

Vi is very emotional, she feels deeply. Even though she is this tough pit fighter, she holds a heavy heart, and this is shown throughout Arcane. Vi, repeatedly through the show, has been vulnerable in front of Caitlyn, both physically and emotionally. We see her cry out for her sister, injured, and in need of help through multiple acts and I believe that should make more of an impression on fans.

Sadly it is not surprising fans have taken this approach to their ship. The need for one lesbian to be more masculine than the other is something that people cannot seem to get out of their head. Caitlyn has certainly taken the brunt of the mischaracterization, since she is the one interpreted as "more femmine".

These misinterpretations of their characters are based in misogyny, homophobia, and sexualization. Plenty of the people doing this simply cannot conceptualize a relationship where the characters are not some form of man and woman. Lesbians can never just be 2 women, they have always been expected to present themselves as "almost straight". This form of mischaracterization is typically done by straight people who often don't realize they are contributing to a harmful stereotype.

Sexualization comes into play because girls liking girls simply cannot be talked about without somebody bringing up sex. Lesbianism is not inherently sexual, but is inherently sexualized. This type is (obviously) from mostly men who see lesbians as nothing more than a way to get off, though its not only from them.

Queer relationships are often sexualized within the community by pushing strict top/bottom and dom/sub standards onto characters and even real people. Similar to how some people can't comprehend a relationship that isn't of the opposite genders, some people can't imagine a relationship where the sexual roles aren't just as strict. These expectations are also rooted in misogyny and is mostly just the progression of gender roles into other aspects of queer relationships. Vi is usually pushed as the top, as the dominant one, simply because she is also perceived as the man. In real life, gay relationships and sex aren't about who is going to be doing the work, but instead about mutual love and mutual doing.

I wanted to also bring up Jayce and Viktor in this post but a lot of their perceived dynamic isn't simply just gender roles. The mischaracterization of their ship lies heavily in the fact of Victor being disabled and therefore "the weak one". Viktor being oppressed in their world while people ignore how their perception of Jayce is altered by the fact that he is an oppressed minority in ours. I just don't think I can apply their ship to only the issues I brought up previously and instead, they need their own discussion.

I will also specify, there is nothing wrong with seeing Caitlyn as the bottom in their relationship, there is nothing wrong with wanting to draw Vi with bigger muscles than what she has in the show. It's simply important to understand that this expectation and wanting of them is not an original thought, and is often caused by the misogyny that has seeped into every part of our world without our knowledge, including the brains of queer people.