#have i said that i like the idw sonic characterization. a lot. A LOT.

[felikatze]

i think idw is based because now we know sonic the hedgehog's opinion on the death penalty

[twipsai]

^this is me when someone respectfully disagrees with me btw

ANYWAYS! pls dont take this as me arguing in a mean way or anything, i love Sonic a lot!!! and i like talking about it and i think you bring up a lot of interesting points!!!! so im gonna go over it all in maybe a not super cohesive way???

i wanna start by acknowledging what you said at the start, "the wording of the second bolded point echoes IDW Sonic's wording of his principles in IDW #2 that Amy swoons over" and clarifying that i was referencing It Doesn't Matter from sa1 and sa2,,, (the full lyric is "Don't ask me why; I don't need a reason / I got my way, my own way!), and the reason why i alluded to it is because i was trying to make that connection that Sonic still has the same basic principals that he did during the adventure era, but i guess i wasnt clear enough oops ^^; i honestly completely forgot that theres a reference to that lyric in idw #2 but,, uh, happy accident i guess?

ok now onto my actual thoughts

i actually wanna agree with you on that first part, cuz as i think about it its something that makes a lot of sense and i havent really been able to fully wrap my head around it -- Sonic being reactive to whats in front of him is exactly how he is!!! idk how i didnt realize that before lol

as to what you said to my first point, i think that theres a level of dissonance between the games and comics with the threats theyre dealing with, and it kinda prevents me from explaining myself with examples. this MIGHT be a reach!!!! im sorry if it is BUT im gonna compare satbk and frontiers for a sec, since we're talking about satbk a lot here (as we should. its such a good game)

(and im not sure if youre lumping in Sonic in IDW with Sonic in Frontiers? a lot of people do but. idk maybe you dont lol. for the purposes of my point i will)

i think that there are parallels to be drawn between how Sonic treats Merlina and Sage, vs how he treats King Arthur and The End. he has a lot of patience for Merlina and Sage as he realizes theres a lot more to them besides just wanting to kill him, but he'll still take what they throw at him like he takes anything else. then you compare that to Arthur and The End, and Sonic is like. ready to destroy those guys. and i think that, while Sonic is first and foremost just living in the moment and reacting to what people throw at him, i also think that theres a huge difference between when Sonic is fighting a person and when Sonic is fighting a powerful entity. granted, he didnt know that King Arthur was an illusion, but he did know he was an immortal tyrant associated with hell. i mean. the underworld

i would love to use an example from the comics showing how he does treat similar scaled threats the same way but i. cant! because he doesnt face threats like that in IDW! hes dealing with things like "the dragon is back" and "that girl has psychological issues". the only thing that comes close to the world-ending threat that we see in the games is the metal virus, and it was both a lot more complicated than typical "defeat the bad guy, save the world" that we see in the games. now, that does NOT mean i dont think the games have complex stories but if i delved into every situation Sonic has been put in then we would be here for so long. and i dont wanna do that. so yeag.

basically to sum up my points above, im saying that the reason IDW Sonic has been pretty lax with his enemies, and even tries to help some of them, is because theyre not really the same level of threats as most of the villains he faces in the games. he can deal with them fine without ending them outright, so he doesnt really have an issue with letting them live. hes just kind of easy-going and chill like that. at least thats how i see it, maybe im missing something?

also, to your point that "Sonic doesnt fight for freedom, he fights against oppression" i just. do not agree lol. i mean, hes been associated with the Freedom Fighters since 1993, but theres also some more direct reference to it in reference to specifically Sonic

the Sonic Adventure Stylebook, page 9 (translated) - "He loves freedom and hates crookedness. He is impulsive and short-tempered, but also has a kindness that can't be ignored when someone is in trouble."

Sonic the Hedgehog Encyclo-speed-ia, page 13 - "Sonic is usually laid back and cool, but he's driven to fight injustice - not in the name of the law, but for the ideal of freedom."

and then i WAS going to add more examples, but the wayback machine is down right now so. can i just say source: trust me? sorry i wish i could add more examples :( i dont wanna dwell on this "for freedom or against oppression" point too much though, cuz i honestly think its just kinda arguing semantics. as well as the fact that i feel like both things are true, i just kinda didnt phrase it well in my original post

um. and now i kinda wanna go completely off the rails so please be nice to me but im gonna say something that may be controversial,,, i am of the mind that, because IDW is canon material, then it shouldnt be seen as a different character than how Sonic was written in some earlier games, even if it seems like it. because its just as much as source material as anything else! i really just think that most "out of character" things are more akin to different facets of a character. i think that writing off all of Sonic in IDW because some things he does contradicts what he does in the games is just kinda. idk. i dont like how quick people are to do that. i mean like, i got into Sonic because of IDW, and then i went and played the games and it never really felt any different to me -- just Sonic responding different to different situations. maybe i need to do another read through of IDW! but i really dont think that writing off an entire canon comic series is a good thing to do when looking at the facets of a character's personality. that could just be me

anyways ummmmm yeah i dont really have anything else to say? i dont disagree with everything you said, but there are some things that i dont think are quite right,,, hopefully this all makes more sense than my original post cuz i dont think i did a good job articulating my points

um. idk what else to add. bye bye i hope you at least liked my drawing of a super sad alien

"sonic just wants to be best friends with his enemies"

WRONG thats only in the idw comics. extremely loud incorrect buzzer.

[speedofsoundsketches]

I personally believe if Idw wrote Maria that way and they said "we're just expanding on the character " fans would throw a fit. Dont get me wrong, the Sonic Ova will always remain superior to whatever American Sonic story product comes out. But cant help there seems to be a lot of forced hype over a short manga that's just mostly okay with a lot of flaws.

I can only speak for myself but part of my major problem with IDW is that the attempts to “expand on the characters” are usually by making them speak out loud their thematic modus operandi instead of allowing things to be said on a subtextual level. It’s why Sonic expositioning on his “le principles” sounds insanely forced because he’s never done something like that in the games or at least, never required an essay worth of words to do that. In the games, this is done by letting characters speak through actions first and punctuating that with clear, concise statements during peak moments of clarity. Sonic simply saying “What you see is what you get! I’m just a guy who loves adventure!” after going through an entire game of him showing us this about him is more convincing than long prose on why he thinks everyone should live exactly like he does in a holier-than-thou manner. (Which is such an antithesis of Sonic’s character in the games, he is far more humble and intuitive than ppl might expect.)

The manga did imo a better job of not only writing Shadow than he is in IDW but it was all largely game compliant. Nothing in it really contradicted anything already done in the games in terms of characterization. It just feels like “more of the same” but now we get to see some of the sad, bittersweet and touching sincere friendship between Shadow and Maria, plus the foundation of all the tense internal conflict and insecurities Shadow will have to face and eventually make peace with. Plus my goodness, the RANGE of emotions he has and that he’s not some completely unreachable hardass but has complicated and deep emotions. Plus the action in it? Ooooo stunning. Him knocking out soldiers and stopping a bullet all while tying it with emotional internal declarations he was struggling with and determining that he does still have purpose even if curing Maria failed is so PALPABLE. STANDING OVATION.

His beautiful thoughts on Maria and what she means to him after she dashes away all his fears that she sees him as a tainted experimental animal like the other scientists did when facing their doom like bruh I’m in tears. It’s so well interwoven with the outward kinetic battle and leaves enough room for that which is left unsaid. Shadow speaks through his actions more than words but his thoughts and feelings just heighten the emotional peaks in this short story.

It’s not perfect but this is literally all I’d ever want. Contrary to popular belief, I’m not actually that difficult to please. Just write characters as they are in the games and I’m happy!

[kingmaxstatic]

In Defense Of Lanolin, A Post About Perspective, Flaws and Development. (Part 2: Lanolin's Sugar, Spice and Everything Nice.)

Read Part 1 Here!

Like I said, the OG post was so long with JUST me bringing up the specific events I had to, eventually, make a part two. In this part I'm gonna be discussing Lanolin as a character! Moreso why she's probably the way she is currently! I'll also be discussing her role as a character.

Posting this here as well! I'm not saying that people disliking lanolin is bad but I do think the hate is over done!

Lanolin was introduced to us in issue 2 (WOW she was early in) She didn't really have much of a role at the time. She was a background for a while before being being re-introduced with a whole new look and personality during the Urban Warfare arc!

However she does go through more than that! In multiple arcs you can see her in the background. Most note worthy being her outfit change becoming more battle ready more time you see in the metal virus arc!

Her sense in style goes from something you'd wear during the summer time for a nice day out to something you'd wear for battle. I think that says a lot about what she went through. She goes from the jittery little thing to someone more strong.

So let's get this out of the way, Lanolin is traumatized by the badnik raids and probably even more so by the Zombot virus (and EVERYTHING ELSE she was caught up in)

"I never wanted to feel so helpless and unprepared again."

I feel a lot of Lanolin's "bossy" and "brashess" comes this. She acts the way she does because she doesn't want herself feel that way ever again. Trauma changes people, speaking from experience.

Whisper is also an example of this being shown in IDW sonic. She seems much bubblier in the past but now she's quiet and reserved because of the death of her team mates. I also want to add something ELSE to this (not to pull these events out again).

"I didn't want ANYONE to feel that way."

cut to me in a therapist chair. I believe a lot of the causes of Lanolin's biggest blunders does come from a place of not wanting anyone to feel helpless in the way SHE did. It's why she goes to protect the "new scared guy" (and manipulator with years of experience). It's why she reacts with such fear when the track breaks. It's all done out of this desire.

It's her moral code.

Also I think whenever she fails this it sends her into a pit of self loathing and I have the panels to prove this check this out. Take a look at this.

THAT right there is Lanolin's guilt. Can we talk about Lanolin's Guilt? PLEASE sonicblr I've been dying to talk about Lanolin's guilt with you ALL DAY okay?/ref

Lanolin openly acknowledging that she's afraid of failing others (in the sense of making people unsafe) in Urban Warfare (I feel at least) is a small but important key to understanding Lanolin's mindset. Lanolin feels GUILT every time she's done something to hurt others. It's why her eyes go so ghost wide when the track breaks.

Because she's put people in danger.

NOW I think Lanolin's biggest flaw is that she's not only blunt but I think she forgets that she can ALSO put people in danger (on accident, of course). When she realizes it I think it mentally comes crashing down for her. Girl DOES NOT handle failure well.

(screenshot added because it's cool, her powers are cool)

Lanolin's role in the comic is pretty clear as day, at least to me. She's the straight man! (Well probably not straight and not a man) Basically a straight man in media is someone who takes things seriously. It's their job to point out the utter bonkers stuff going around them and go "what?????"

Which is one of the first things we see her do in the first scenes she's in! I personally love how much her personality clashes with the others, adds some nice chemistry to the mix!

Characters that are typically characterized as "serious" will ALWAYS clash with the goof balls. It's the charm of the dynamic.

I don't know why people hate her so much, genuinely. She shares a lot of character traits with some fan favorites! I do think there might be a uh... bigger reason as to why people hate her.

"Max. What the hell are you talking about?"

Haha. Well. There's two characters I want to discuss for this that do share traits with her and are fan favorites. Other than characteristics.. there is one key difference I want to discuss between Lanolin and these two characters. And this is the hard part where despite the meme I talk about more difficult subject matter.

"What's the main difference between lanolin and these fan favorites?"

ah! Well uh.

Their Genders.

(and well alliance for Starline shurgs very loudly)

Yeah this is unfortunately discuss fandom sexism. It's not lost on me that people absolutely ADORE Shadow and Starline. Characters that are often ones to resort to whatever tactics they deem necessary to achieve their end goals. These tactics can include violence. Hell we know Starline is down right PETRIFIED of failure (issue 50). Shadow is also known for taking charge on things and boldy assuming stuff (SA2). Hell he even assumes himself to be an android at one point.

These are both characters that share a LOT character wise with Lanolin. I know for a FACT if Shadow was the one who kicked Silver out of team dark he'd still be loved. If Starline was in Lanolin's place you'd have people going "Oh guys hear me out owo,,". You know it's bad when I've seen more genuine hate and vile spread about the traumatized teenager than the grown man who canonically helped caused a zombie outbreak (and so much more!!!). I'm saying this and Starline is my favorite Idw character! Keep that in mind while reading all of this!

People would've adored Lanolin if she was a guy. I'm betting it RIGHT now. She wouldn't be "bitchy" she'd be "determined and strong". She wouldn't of "gotten what she deserved" there would've been posts about how it "wasn't his fault <:[[[[".

Why do I say this? Because I've seen this happen in fandom.

Again

And Again

And AGAIN.

HELL Even to the extent that people have called Mabel Pines, A 12 YEAR OLD. A Manipulator. Princess Bubble gum wasn't being nice to Finn she was "leading him on". Rose Quartz wasn't a morally gray figure she was "a reckless person".

Lanolin isn't "just doing her job and making a mistake" she's "being a bitch and getting what she deserved".

I'm gonna keep it real with you guys, I was considering deleting this last part of the post but I genuinely think it needs to be said, Lanolin's hate feels SO deeply rooted in sexism. Espically with all the talk of her "getting what she deserved". I'm so stuck on that because it feels so... gross. Saying you want her cooked. Saying you want her dead. Feels so gross. She's a teenager, most likely. Even then she openly acknowledges she's inexperienced.

She's learning, let her learn. Like everyone is letting Surge learn.

Am I saying everyone who hates Lanolin is a sexist? No. Am I saying that Lanolin would've been given more slack if she was a man? Abso-fucking-lutely.

WHOA that got super serious real quick haha! Well!!!! That's the post! Sorry guys I tried to keep this one light hearted but I genuinely felt like I had to get that last part off of my chest. I really hope the next "character deep dive" I make is more light hearted. Thank you for reading!

[noeggets]

Noeggets has a lot of deep thoughts about Shadow's characterization

it's so sad that Shadow was only a project to gerald, like we all joke /think that Shadow was "part of the family" but he was only a cure to Maria, that man was not as good a person as we think he was IM NOt SAYING HE WAS BAD but i usually see him depicted as super super kind to Shadow but i was reading the lore of SA2 and watching an analysis video and if the president never asked him to make whatever he asked him to make Shadow very well would not have been created.

It's so dark and so sad, like he manipulated Shadow when he went insane how do you think it feels to Shadow to know the person who made him didn't truly love him? like neither of the things that created/help create Shadow really truly loved him, he's only a cure, he's just a thing to reach immortality, he very well could be immortal himself, Shadow i don't think he can die cause he was created to not be able to catch any disease and be immortality it's self.

How do you think that feels? to just be a thing? Biolizard is just a failed attempt at making Shadow based on Chaos, those Chaos things in the ARK are failed attempts at Shadow also based on Chaos, i never knew this until i read the wiki 2 days ago SA2 has such a dark story i feel so bad for Shadow

re-thinking what i used to think about IDW Shadow lemme explain

And now that i know all this about Shadow the way he acts in IDW makes a little more sense to me, we all thought he was stupid when Sonic said "don't touch those zobot guys you'll turn into one" and Shadow was all "yeah, i dont care this wont effect me" HE WAS LIKE THIS FOR TWO REASONS

he was mad at Sonic cause his whole thing i want to achieve world peace i already talked about how IDW Shadow doesn't have as much compassion as the Shadow we all know from any other game but this is Eggman we're talking about, with everything Eggman's done up to this point do you think Shadow believes there is any good in him when he rarely does anything good Shadow has seen? Time eater, Sonic unleashed, Shadow is not ignorant to Eggman waking up a monster inside the planet everybody whether we seen them or not knows sonic unleashed happen, Sonic brings up sonic unleashed in IDW so it canonly happened. i remember reading that Knuckles and Shadow were gonna be in Sonic unleashed and if that's true SHADOW IS AWARE OF THIS

Eggman is a threat to the world to Shadow but he allowed the doctor to be cause Sonic keeps him check, Sonic is starting to be "unable" to keep him in check from Shadow's view, Shadow was there in forces, he witness what Eggman did to greenhill, he fought infinite who is a merc hired by Eggman mercs off people, Shadow is trying to save people that's his whole thing. After what happen to Shadow in Episode Shadow in forces do you think Shadow would hold any sympathy for Eggman the next time he physically see's him? After what he did to the world, after what he did to Omega? right in front of his eyes? Using Infinite to corrupt Omega and scare him Shadow cares about Omega that's his friend i had a point but i forgot it dang it anyway Shadow was in the war,

i remembered it a little bit i think i think i was gonna say something about when GUN sent Shadow to rescue Omega idk i haven't touched forces in sometime, and Shadow didn't come back as well as Omega. Eggman immobilized Shadow Shadow does not think the world is safe with Eggman around i think that was my point i don't remember...

ANYWAY that's why when Shadow came to see mr tinker he was pissed that Sonic allowed Eggman to be, this is dangerous to Shadow. when Shadow was getting mad at Sonic cause Sonic was preaching let Mr. Tinker live Shadow was thinking about the bigger picture: This man is terrorizing people and the only way to keep everyone safe is getting rid of him, this may be the only chance we get, but he let him live because Sonic explained that Shadow did bad things in the past as well so does that mean Shadow gets to go down with Eggman?

Shadow was mad at Sonic and the mess he made, Shadow was being compassionate i just didn't see it or understand it until now, it shocked him greatly when he was consumed by metal virus because he truly believed he could not catch a disease, this is a disease, so he wasn't being stupid i will admit he should have been more cautious not to put it to the test if it would work on him but Shadow was so sure he couldn't catch it, cause he believed he can't catch any KNOWN diseases this was a new disease his body wasn't created to understand therefore it works on him.

We thought SEGA didn't know what they were doing when they were writing IDW Shadow BUT THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING people probably don't even care or remember about when that issue came out and everyone got so mad that Shadow was written "wrong" and being "stupid" but now that i have a understanding i think understand what he was doing and his thought process.

Shadow is moving up on my favorite list for this i feel so bad for Shadow F in the chat for Shadow his story is so sad like really. also heres an old thing i did that's really valid now

[randomthefox]

"Sonic fans have more mandates than SEGA does" Well gee, MAYBE if you same dipshits who *love* whine about SEGA having rules for THEIR characters, thank Flynn for popularizing that, MAYBE you'd see less discourse about (sane) fans taking issue with whenever SEGA's rules aren't being fully adhered to by him or some other insecure fuck who cares more about getting their dirty fingerprints all over Sonic! Yet they still wanna wonder why nobody outside the fandom still respects Sonic as a brand. Because the fandom sure learned to not to.

It's so fucking annoying.

"This moment is an example of bad writing because it is OOC to Sonic's established characterization and personality traits."

"WOOOOW SO YOU'RE SAYING SONIC ISN'T ALLOWED TO EVER ACT IN DIFFERENT WAYS GOSH TALK ABOUT MUH MANDATES!"

This is what I mean when I say IDW fans always argue in bad faith. They never engage with the actual argument being made. They're always putting words in your mouth and responding to a strawman of their own construction.

It's frustrating to me because I never do that shit. I don't just completely fucking ignore their argument and pretend they said something else instead for the benefit of painting them as some unreasonable easily dismissed gremlin, like they do to us. I'm always willing to meet their arguments halfway and a lot of the time I go even further than that and go out of my way to try and dissect what they said to try and properly understand what they're trying to communicate but probably have difficulty articulating properly. I don't just completely change the terms of the debate and treat them like they're saying something patently absurd so it can be disregarded without proper refutation.

IDW fans are all just a bunch of assholes.

[fernsnailz]

i saw you mention that some of the idw plotlines for shadow were Not Very Good - im curious if you would expand on that? just what you think wasnt done well, how it could have been handled better, that sort of thing. i know some people have issues with his handling in the metal virus arc for example, but i dunno i felt it was in character? misunderstanding advice and being too proud to follow it, falling under his own hubris. he definitely could have been more fucked up about it when the arc ended, given his history with losing control but

i dunno!! i wanna know your more general thoughts

yeah sure! sorry this turned into another essay post because i have a lot to say lol

i don't think idw shadow's characterization is terrible, but i don't think it's very good either. i think idw does a decent job at showing that shadow looks at the larger picture of how the story events will affect the world he’s meant to protect, and his actions are usually in an effort to stop problems as quickly as possible. shadow doesn’t like to waste time, especially when people’s lives are on the line. i misspoke a bit when i said his plotlines where bad, because i think the general story beats he hits are okay.

the big issue i have is with how his dialogue affects his character. while i think most of shadow’s actions are in line with his motivations, there are multiple instances of his dialogue directly undermining or changing his characterization and motives.

the most notable (and talked about by fans from what i’ve seen) is in the metal virus arc: the whole “cowards run. i win” line.

more under the cut because i have Many Thoughts hhoough boy

ever time i see this line i cringe a little bit, but i’ve never really been able to figure out why. it's difficult for me to argue that it's out of character - shadow’s ego is something i would define as his greatest flaw, being present from the very beginning of his character. it has previously distracted him from his larger goals - for example, fighting sonic on prison island after being called fake, thus distracting him from rescuing rouge. however, shadow's ego doesn’t exist to prove he’s the strongest or better than his foes - it’s about proving he has a REASON to exist. he was created for a very specific purpose, to be the ultimate lifeform and protector of humanity. shadow has nothing left after his previous life was lost. so if he’s a failure, then what was the point of all that loss? what's the point of his final promises?

when reading the "cowards run" line, it re-frames shadow's ego to be about winning above all else. it's strange to read if you know shadow, ESPECIALLY when he later mentions he’s the best chance to fight off the zombots due to his immunity to disease.

because he’s RIGHT!! this is what he was literally created for - his immunity was a fundamental part of why he was created as a protector of humanity. this is his purpose!! and he's right to oppose sonic in this issue as well - technically, sonic indirectly allowed the metal virus to happen. shadow isn't wrong to be furious at him.

but then both of these beats are immediately thrown out the window with the "cowards run" line, because it turns this moment into another instance of shadow trying to prove that he’s good at fighting and better than everyone else. shadow is serving his purpose as the ultimate lifeform and he's standing his ground against sonic's morals, but that ONE LINE re-contextualizes these actions as a plot to prove that he's strong. it’s SO CLOSE to being good, but it fumbles completely with just four words!! shadow being the ultimate lifeform in idw reads (to me) as him needing to be the strongest physically, which is never what it was about.

personally i would have really liked to see a version of the metal virus arc where shadow actually WAS immune to it. there would finally be a purpose to the very specific disease lore regarding the ultimate lifeform, and it would force him to work alongside sonic and anyone else who was left standing. but to be fair they probably wrote him out to heighten the stakes and save us from more bad shadow dialogue

his lasting thoughts on the metal virus arc after this are... okay i guess. they feel vague as hell to me, but i think it makes sense for him to reflect on his mistakes in this sort of way since he always tries to learn from previous failures.

and we see how shadow's reflection on his failure here affects what he does in the next arc. during the chao race, he searches for dr. starline so he can attempt to stop any problems before they begin. yet despite being in reach of starline, he leaves the fight and joins sonic in trying to stop an avalanche. so even though shadow's character falters in some moments, the story seems to be actively working to improve him.

however, the biggest sin i think idw pulls with shadow is regarding his relationship with team dark. obviously i am VERY biased here because i love team dark and i want them to be friends, but some of these issues are just… oough. the line in idw that hurts me most is this one while rouge and amy are trying to help omega after he literally got torn to shreds.

shadow states that he has no desire to help omega after the robot almost died. i want to die

i can try to give this scene the benefit of the doubt: maybe shadow doesn’t see the need to help omega because he knows omega will be fine. or maybe he doesn’t think he can help omega because he literally has no clue how robots work. whatever it may be, shadow feels his time is better spent hunting down starline. but then why not say that? he's previously been able to communicate to team dark where he thinks his abilities are most needed, so why does his dialogue turn this into another moment of selfishness? why do they break 20 years of characterization and relationships just to turn him into a boring, brooding loner? these questions keep me up at night and i want to bite something

this scene really hurts considering shadow and omega’s relationship up until this point. every time i see this page, i remember that omega waited in stasis for 200 YEARS to save shadow in sonic 06. and sure, that was over 15 years ago and from a game most people act like doesn’t exist, but their relationship is important in modern sonic too - in forces, shadow is the one to go look for omega first after he goes offline while fighting infinite, and they work together to fight the zombots before both perishing. their bond and trust is there, whether they be friends or just allies.

it's strange because this is a line shadow says again later to sonic, but i think he's valid in ignoring sonic here due to their conflict over the mr. tinker situation and the release of the metal virus. sonic and shadow's relationship has been on edge since the start of idw, so shadow being uninterested in a team up makes sense to me. but why would he say the same thing to omega, an ally that needs help?

still, it's clear to me that the idw team is absolutely trying their best to make shadow work within the limitations they're given. despite shadow stumbling into the edgelord trope pit, characters around him will challenge his perspective and choices, causing him to rethink his actions. this is most notable in the chao race arc, which (aside from the ignoring omega part) is probably one of shadow's stronger stories in idw.

there is so, so much potential for shadow in idw. and it sucks, because the writers know his character and want to write him better! head writer evan stanley’s fan comic ghosts of the future has some shadow characterization that i love, and ian flynn is responsible for some of my favorite shadow stories of all time. most people cite the “sega mandates” as the reason for shadow’s lackluster modern character and. yeah. it tracks. very much so.

idw shadow feel so strangely out of place compared to the rest of the comic, at least to me. he feels like a remnant of the mid-2010s sonic culture where they were really leaning into sonic being a funny meme with no depth. but thankfully idw shadow seems to be improving, even if it's REALLY slowly.

so yeah uh in short. i think idw shadow should stop saying dumb shit and be allowed to have friends again

[number-one-shadisper-shipper]

excuse me, sorry for popping here uninvited but, what was the point of that meme?

because, like, i can count on fingers the number of people in this website who actively criticize the idw sonic comics, so it's not like liking them here is a controversial opinion,

then i can only imagine it's all a big deal on twitter, as far as i heard every discussion is a big deal in there

Hey, no problem, all are welcome!

I would agree with you that most people are pretty good about the comics, which I am grateful for. But that being said, even on here I have seen a TON of complaints about them.

Idk why, but the recent Spring Broken one got a lot of people ripping on it, when I think the worst you can say is that it was a little meh (I liked it but I can see that some people would find it boring). And overall, I've seen lots of complaints about the characterization and about Ian Flynn as a writer. I'm perfectly fine with having a few criticisms, I do too, but I try not to let it get in the way of my enjoyment.

And again, I think most of the fandom here is pretty good. I probably wouldn't have made the meme if I didn't think that a lot of people would agree. I'm just sad that I've seen quite a bit of negativity lately. But the meme isn't aimed at anyone in particular or anything.

[canonmisogynyvictimstournament]

PROPAGANDA

AMY ROSE (SONIC THE HEDGEHOG)

1.) Amy’s characterisation has experienced several generations of misogyny, right from her genesis: She was designed as a girlfriend, but it eas then decided they didn’t want Sonic to have a girlfriend. First instance she’s a damsel in distress that he resents for being there and crushing on him, and this is echoed in the comics. She is then presented as pathetic, chasing and stalkerish, as well as sidelined in the games in favour of other characters despite being very strong. Her stories are often those with the most emotional weight, but the reading is coloured by other characters underestimating her importance there. She then enters a pushy and blind era where she becomes a mockery of her past self. A universe reset rebranded her as a feminist, but that often comes off as a bit pickme, and they frequently failed to hold her femininity and also combat capabilities in hand at once. She is finally getting a bit more stable characterisation and treated a bit better, but I still don’t trust the writers with her. Ultimately, it often felt like the creators didn’t like her, and only had her there because they were made to; and that sucked as a little girl sonic fan.

2.) She started out as the token Girl One in a 90’s property, and her first appearance was as a damsel in distress, which isn’t great to begin with, and she wasn’t playable for a long-ass time outside of spinoffs. The Sonic Adventure games redesigned her, made her playable, let her fight back against her would-be kidnappers, and gave her a major role in saving the world by letting Shadow talk to someone not game with destroying it. Then from Sonic Heroes to Sonic and the Black Knight, and the anime Sonic X, her character was reduced to ‘hehe funny obsessed fangirl is obsessed’ a lot of the time, losing her compassion and a good deal of her social awareness. In Sonic 06, she literally said that she’d sacrifice the rest of the world for Sonic, which, my girl would NEVER in SA2. The Archie comics weren’t kind to her either, as their explanation for the redesign was that Amy wished to become older, so they aged up her body, BUT NOT HER MIND EW EW EW. I’m sure there are other crimes the Archie comics did to her, but that’s not my knowledge base. THEN the writers tried to backpedal in the early 2010’s, but by attempting to undo all the 'crazy’, they took out Amy’s drive and convictions (Sonic Lost World just letting Amy sit and watch Sonic do all the work my beloathed). The Sonic Boom spinoff series tried to pivot and make their version of her a girlboss, but Rise of Lyric was SO BAD. Sonic Boom: Fire and Ice made an alternate version of her a damsel in distress, again, which while technically true to Amy’s roots, does not fit her Boom characterization AT ALL. The Sonic Boom cartoon was a screwball comedy, and they at least lampshaded a lot of Amy’s previous writing problems, but they didn’t give her much to do either, mainly making her 'the sensible one’ whenever Sonic wasn’t available for deadpan responses. They’ve been doing a bit better lately, with Amy usually involved in world-saving matters, and she was prominently featured in Sonic Frontiers, even if she was trapped in Cyberspace. The IDW comics are also treating her wonderfully, from what I’ve seen.

3.) when she was created as a character, she was made solely to be sonic’s love interest. in sonic adventure, they tried to rewrite her and flesh out her character more by making her realize she’s more than her crush on sonic and she finally realizes she’s strong enough to do things without him. sonic team IMMEDIATELY undid that in sonic heroes which came out soon after. they made her entire character in that game obsessed with sonic and based her entire story around him. she was obsessed with him unhealthily in that game because god forbid team sonic let’s a strong female character exist. many of the sonic games took away her quality of being strong without sonic by writing her to only be obsessed with him and not do anything without him. in many modern games, she’s improved more, but misogyny has really screwed her over as a character.

ABBIE MILLS (SLEEPY HOLLOW) (CW: Racism)

1.) Abbie starts out as one of the two protagonists of the show, only to get almost entirely sidelined as early as season 2, getting less and less screen time and allowed no relationships, either platonic or romantic, while the other lead Ichabod Crane has a seemingly infinite amount of them. It got bad enough that her actor wanted to leave the show, which they did by having her sacrifice her soul in the season 3 finale for the male lead to live, and then they ended the show after season 4 anyway, because guess what, it’s a bad idea to entirely sideline and eventually kill off one of your leads!

2.) She was killed by the narrative to advance her white male co-protagonist’s plotline and I’m still mad about it, Abbie deserved so much better. This is an example of racism in the narrative too and it extended to the production of the show, see news coverage:

3.) Look, I only watched the first season but they killed her off the show SHE was a co lead of!! Misogyny AND racism, all rolled into one. I remember seeing the fan reactions and I was so mad on their behalfs. They wrote her off her own show and from what I recall, gave her less and less screentime leading up to that. Truly, she deserved so much better and I will always be upset by this.

[galsgeneration]

Same asker as the previous query about ships here. I wanna know how you feel about Shadow/Espio. It’s one of my fave ships, but there’s so little content for it even compared to other rarepairs. I feel that it’s OOC to some extent, as most ships with Shadow are (including Sonadow imo, even though I love that ship too) but I’m curious if/how you think Shadpio could work. And what you think about their dynamic in general. I’m always researching them but I assume you’d be more knowledgeable.

That's an awesome question! There's a particular charm in Shadow and Espio's dynamic when we get to analyze the characters' individual traits being displayed in the short interactions they've had thus far.

Considering the definition of "ship" in fandom usually leans toward romance, I personally can't see Shadow involved in some form with any of the characters, judging by how he thinks, acts and what we can conclude from his dangerously pure nature in the canon material (including Sonic X, as his characterization in the japanese script is faithful to his game counterpart). Espio, on the other hand, appears to be slightly more open to a conventional approach on the matter, but that would require further development and exploration on his relationships with other characters beyond the Chaotix, like Sonic, Rouge, Silver, etc.

As for creative content taking from the canon, it's only "out of character" if the intention within how they think of the other is somewhat changed, along with the characters' core traits, main relationships and their influence (or not) in the context of the specific moments they share with one another. With that being said, I can only say my personal thoughts on them based on what SEGA has already explored/showed, without going into "shipping" and "TV tropes" territory or "non-canon" media (i.e. Archie comics and The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog).

Shadow and Espio share a few similarities here and there, when it comes to their methods and decisions upon facing the emergence of a threat and the opportunity to strike at the right moment (i.e. their stance on Mr. Tinker/Dr. Eggman before and after the Metal Virus incident in the IDW comics, except that Shadow was hellbent on taking him down straight away while Espio only verbalized the idea to Sonic after having to deal with the outcome himself). They are not opposed to killing, either.

Although Shadow is cold-natured (bearing in mind he's also a man-made weapon), Espio has a rather calm, stealthy and deadly approach in battle that's almost a parallel to Shadow's more feisty, ruthless combat style. Their fighting tactics are precise and deceptive, whether in an ambush or general warfare - each in their own specialty, since Shadow is a master in Chaos Control and Espio a nin-jutsu specialist ninja - and they're equally confident in their skills. Striking from behind and when the foe least expects it can be quite their thing, too.

I enjoy the first look we got into their dynamic during the Semi-Hero route of Shadow the Hedgehog (2005), after the events of Sonic Heroes. Understanding that Shadow was seeking for the truth about himself and his past, it's easier to picture how Espio could affect and assist Shadow in the future (if SEGA ever considers the idea) after they situationally teamed up when infiltrating Dr. Eggman's database. Espio had asked Shadow if he felt like giving him a hand in looking for some information the Chaotix needed at the time, and Shadow hoped to find something useful about himself. Therefore, the mutual aid would only be beneficial. In one of the japanese summaries of the game for the boss battle following this specific mission, Shadow acknowledges Espio's role in defeating the Doctor and escaping the electronic world with him.

Something I also find curious is the way Espio managed (or at least tried) to bring Shadow back to the present throughout the mission, upon noticing how much the doubts and misleading offers kept getting at Shadow. There's a lot of cool and high-spirited lines coming from Espio to ground and help Shadow zero in back on his main goal (i.e. "Stop thinking about it, let's just keep going"; "It's all nonsense talk to trick you at the end of the day"; "Right now, let's focus on defeating [Dr. Eggman] to get out of here."). Hence, I can see Shadow being neutral towards Espio as he never stood on his way, nor manipulated him for his own gain (Espio doesn't like dishonesty, after all!).

Despite the whole ordeal Shadow went through in his self-titled game, it's a fact that Shadow can be impulsive when dabbling with danger, meaning he can be distracted once caught up in his own thoughts/emotions or the thrill of a challenge sometimes. It's a nice detail in opposition to Espio's cautious behavior, since he isn't distracted easily; even when his team is at risk, he attempts to keep himself level-headed and not lose his focus.

Still, something they absolutely have in common is an interest for dangerous missions and (the semblance of) perfectionism. Espio enjoys the "aesthetic" of staying in the shadows, though he sometimes makes the mistake of sneezing and compromising his invisibility; Shadow is a perfectionist by his own standards and doesn't tolerate anything but the ultimate performance from himself and others (even if he miscalculates at times due to a myriad of reasons). The manner that Shadow and Espio see the topic of perfectionism and balance can be an intriguing point for conflict, too.

On another note, during the only verbal interaction between the two in Sonic X, Espio asks Shadow if he's going to rescue Dr. Eggman after the Chaotix gave him a ride, in which Shadow responds that his only target is Dark Oak. This also shows how Espio doesn't know exactly/can predict Shadow's motivations or actions, but his optimism remains present nonetheless. Regardless of the events in the anime not being canon, we can see how direct and brief their conversations are, especially after Shadow's clarification (and subtle correction). This aspect is not different in the mainline games, as they only address the other when it's extremely necessary, or if the situation calls for a change.

All in all, I believe Shadow and Espio, as a dynamic and hypotetical "pairing," can be very interesting if we put these moments into perspective instead of latching onto popular tropes we find oftenly in the fandom (it's also the case for many other fictional ones).

My thoughts and considerations on them got longer than I intended, but I hope this is what you expected to read (and understand) from how I view them! They do have the potential to work as an intriguing, fleeting duo in the absence of the Chaotix and/or Shadow's usual allies, but that's all up to SEGA. 😜

[blazehedgehog]

You need to reread Archie Sonic. I can assure you, it was not as nearly as good as you thought it was, and the IDW comic is not as nearly as bad as you think it is. Slow arcs doesn't mean bad arcs, and there's more character development than just "Surge attacks Sonic." And this arc clearly had an ending. Stop letting the metal plague arc overright your critical thinking skills. It was *years ago.*

My question to you is this: are you involved with the production of IDW Sonic? Because if you aren't, it sounds like you're taking something personally that was not directed at you and have saddled yourself with the responsibility of teaching me a lesson.

I'd like to point you to this post from six months ago, where I had nothing but nice things to say about IDW Sonic. I ran across it recently while digging through my blog for a different post (which I could not find, thanks Tumblr Search). Contrast that with the post where I say "the last six months have been kind of boring in retrospect."

I think I'm allowed to say that. I'm allowed to be bored. A story arc that amounts to "Eggman built a really big and scary city" feels weirdly low key and kind of bland (he's built a lot of cities), and none of the other story arcs feel like they've been paying off.

Coming at me from the angle of "WELL ARCHIE SUCKS TOO YOU JUST DON'T REMEMBER IT" is very strange to me, because that's just, like, your opinion, man. You even suggest the concept of opinion itself is fallible.

And maybe mine is. I dunno. Who I was yesterday is not who I will be tomorrow. But who I was when Archie was good thought it was great. I was practically counting the days for new issues. I was about to start a monthly comic review column for TSSZ just to have an excuse to get a subscription.

I was a different person back then. But also I was feelin' pretty high on IDW Sonic just six months ago and now it feels like they're stalling.

Yes, I said it's felt like something has been missing for a long time, and to some degree it has. The world of IDW Sonic revolves around six characters and four or five locations, and some of those locations don't have very strong identities outside of "it's like the place from the video games." The depth and the breadth of Archie isn't there.

But you at least had intent. Surge was interesting, Starline was interesting, Belle was interesting, Sonic jabbing Eggman about Mr. Tinker was interesting, everyone jabbing Sonic about letting villains go all the time was interesting, Tails was desperately trying to use the non-violent approach with Kitsunami. There was strong characterization for miles.

What have we had over the last six months?

Surge came back, and she repeated a longer, slower version of the same interaction she had with Sonic in issue #50.

It was revealed that Surge is having PTSD hallucinations of Dr. Starline.

Eggman built another city, but this builds and repairs itself, which doesn't actually mean anything given we've never drawn attention to how Eggman builds or repairs his cities before. The dude has a robot army, it's reasonable to assume he's always had cleanup and repair crews. Telling me it's "special" now isn't really exciting.

Tangle said the wrong thing, upset Whisper and they had a girlfriends moment about it. But given Tangle was just being the way Tangle always has been, this isn't exactly a major event.

We were introduced to Lanolin, who so far has very little backstory and barely established a personality besides "does not want to put up with Tangle's shenanigans." So like half the cast, then.

Team Dark was retconned back into existence, so Shadow gets to be part of stories again.

It doesn't feel like this is going anywhere right now, and the world around it isn't robust enough to pick up the slack and keep it interesting.

And you don't have to take it personally. You don't have to hit back. It isn't about you.

[cosm1cbrownie]

unironically i kinda hate how sonic feels and acts in newer media (specifically prime and a bit of idw)

rant/tangent time wooo

note: might be a bit unorganized due to this being on my old azz galaxy s7 edge lol

alright. So i just finished reading the idw sonic comics allll the way up to the the most recent side comic, Scrapnik Island #4.

So like, while reading the main idw comic i kinda felt like.. sonic was just kinda a dick near the end for no reason??? Like yeah hes mostly fine in the beginning but once we get to the point where people put these high expectations on him and hes basically under a lot of pressure (which i understand) but i feel like the way they are characterizing him is just :

"haha sonic doesnt care and acts on inpulse like a dick and doesnt recognize the shit hes done and is basically a little shit lmao he also is just kinda and idiot and seems to forget things on the basis of when it most convient for him !!!"

i didnt really feel much of it in idw until the later chapters, but it started to get prevalent when i was reading these in between me watching Sonic Boom. (The Show, which is my favorite outside of AOSTH.)

Now personally, i think Sonic Boom's charactasation of Sonic is probably the best one we have had in a long while. Although its a comedy, i like how sonic is aware of what's going on and takes into account what his friends are suggesting.

Like the episode where he does something that affects a citizen of the town, (minds going blank on what the towns name is lmao) and when his friends (and the other villagers) let him join the whole "talk about our feelings" club thing,

at first, he opposes the idea of apologizing saying that calling people "people" isnt bad, (ik this was played for jokes it still supports my argument.) they encourage him to recognize that what he did was wrong,, and they tell him to go apologize, and he does, albeit with a bit of "ok fine i admit it pls go away" but atleast he doesnt outright deny it or seem stupid for trying to do so and failing.

Thats my issue with prime, sonic just seems like an oblivious idiot who doesnt recogize how to read the damn room and listen to his friends when it matters most. He acts like a tiny child, which doesnt make sense to me, because hes been through adventures and times similar to this and for most of the newer media they dont wanna recognize sonics shortcomings and upbringings as a character at all??????? Like i think frontiers got it right with the story, and sonic who understood what was going on and stopped every once in a while to smell the roses and help his friends!

But in newer media outside of frontiers, it seems like sonic doesnt know how to smell the fucking roses every once in a while and stop thinking on impulse, like they are making him seem like he only acts on impulse, all the damn time, with no regards of what was or is being said to him or even taking it into account???

Like yes, we fucking get it sonic can sometimes act on impulse when hes in a stressful situation thats what makes him seem real, makes him seem human.

But, when you make him into this douche canoe who acts on inpulse all the time, disregards his friends when it matters most, and casually dissapoints them when ever he feels like it, or when it benefits him (cough cough the picnic scene in prime), i dont think most people would want him to have a good time, which im sure is the reason why most people, including myself, thought sonic deserved that punch from shadow. (who is great in prime btw, was okay in boom too but needed more time to flesh him out outside of 3 eps hes supper immature and i love him lmao) He's a dick. And i dont like him.

So, i hope to god they rewrite sonics character in prime s2 because he was unrionically just a giant fuckin dick instead of a snarky but caring 'anti hero' (like in boom) and that makes me really mad grahhhh

[also side tangent i dont hate prime (lemme make this clear) this whole sonic rant was just me nitpicking how sonic is currently in media outside of frontiers

ALSO ALSO SIDE TANGENT 2 HOW DID THEY FUCK UP SONIC SO BAD BUT GOT SHADOW ALL GOOD AND SHIT????? WHATT???? BRO THEY ARE POLAR OPPOSITE CIRCLE GRAPHS WHICH OVERLAP THEY ARE NOT THAT HARD TO MAKE SOBS INTENTLY]

[cartoonrival]

really really i liked sonadow more before i got more certain about which aspects of the series i liked and which i was more neutral towards (meaning i became a comic fan, where they barely interact lol .). and i still like it in certain contexts and i know sonic has a million foils but i think shadow (next to surge) is one of his strongest (narratively speaking).

i think their relationship and the way they work together is very entertaining to watch, a quiet respect thats still kinda shadowed (haha) by shadows existing issues with his self image and the fact that sonic has this freedom to act that shadow’s never going to have because he eternally views himself as a weapon, regardless of where he points it. it becomes ESPECIALLY interesting if you subscribe to the theory that shadow was modeled after super sonic, meaning he is quite literally the faker and his creation was INSPIRED BY SONIC’S AWESOME POWER, which would fuck a guy up for sure and make him so fucking mad holy shit. also i characterize sonic as something of a chronic flirt (which is mostly an archie-brained take i think, gameverse and x fans might not agree with that) with like everyone he talks to regardless of if he has any genuine interest in them. and i think that sort of character talking to the emotional equivalent of a brick wall has a lot of charm.

THAT SAID even in the games they dont really interact enough for there to be a lot to work off of, in the comics its even less because his idw characterization sucks ass and balls and in archie they just um dont lol . when they do its awesome and its shadow saga part 1 and hedgehog havoc but they mostly dont. and thats fine. IM NOT DENYING THAT THEY DONT HAVE A REAL EMOTIONAL CONNECTION OR ANYTHING i just dont know if that connection is something thats really as potent with them, as they are now, as sonadow as a popular ship would lead you to believe.

ALSO i think its way too often used to sort of undermine shadows relationship with rouge and omega? not intentionally of course but shadow is miles closer to opening up with his teammates than he is with sonic the hedgehog. read shadow fall. this isnt a sonadow hate post i really dont care and i do like it sometimes. i really think sonic acts like that with all his guy friends though LETS BE REAL!

[themattress]

Assorted “Archie’s Sonic the Hedgehog” Opinions, Complaints, and Observations

(This post and this post serving as references.)

- The Classic Era remains the comic at its best. It knew exactly what it wanted to be at the start, a silly colorful kids’ book promoting SEGA’s mascot, but then decided it wanted to get more serious with a continuous narrative and character development, and for the most part (excluding the stuff Ken Penders did with Knuckles) it did it well. The first 15 issues are totally AoStH-style silly, the next 10 issues have a more dramatic SatAM-style undercurrent, the following 10 issues flip it so that the AoStH-style silliness is the undercurrent, and the last 15 issues are totally SaTAM-style drama, with the only weird instances of tonal off-ness being the more serious Princess Sally miniseries early in and the more goofy Sonic Blast special later on (and we do NOT talk about Sonic Live!, it isn’t canon so it may as well not exist.)

- Discounting the Knuckles series and many of the increasingly asinine Super Specials, I am also incredibly fond of the Adventuring Era, which was full of good writing, world-building and characterization for everyone not being written by Ken Penders, and was even able to pull off a Sonic Adventure adaptation that made sense in the context of the series and was better than it had any right being given the troubled circumstances behind its production. The comic series during the Classic and Adventuring Eras WAS Sonic for me throughout my childhood.

- But like many, the Declining Era is where the series lost me. I don’t blame Karl Bollers for this; a lot of his writing was still solid. But the editor for some reason or other decided to push the serious tone too far and add romantic furry teen drama to the equation for good measure. Worse still, after #105 Robotnik suffered from some massive villain decay and a general loss of direction. THE villain of the series began to feel like an afterthought, and it pissed me off. With that said, I’ve....kind of softened on the Declining Era in recent years. It’s still not good, there’s plenty wrong with it (especially the artwork), but compared to the era that followed it’s perfectly tolerable, and #125, with some re-working, would have made a decent series finale.

- Yes, the Miserable Era was the nadir of quality in the series and Ian Flynn being hired was a marked improvement. No, I do not agree he was the savior of the Sonic comics he’s been made out to be - not in the Renewal Era, not in the Burdened Era, not in the Reboot Era, and not even in the current IDW Comics. There’s just way too often where his stories are transparently advancing an Agenda(TM). And whether or not you agree with the Agenda(TM) being advanced is irrelevant, because after enough instances of it happening you just get sick of the characters and world of Sonic being manipulated for Agendas(TM). I feel like prime examples of this are the King Scourge arc and the Iron Dominion arc. Ian previously wrote some truly epic sequential story arcs that lasted anywhere from 2 to 5 issues, as is the norm for this series. And yet these two arcs lasted 9 issues and 12 issues respectively. Why? Because Flynn had an Agenda(TM) to push these edgy reinventions of old lame villains as major league threats in order to show just how talented a writer he really is. The co-running King Naugus and Mecha Sally arcs were a similar deal, as was the Zeti stuff in IDW. And it’s all just so tiresome, just as tiresome as anything Penders and Gabrie put the comic through.

- One thing I appreciate both the Archie comic series and SatAM show for is establishing a distinct world, supporting cast and mythology for Sonic long before the games got around to doing it. With that said, I liked Archie’s better since it had elements of the games and AoStH in addition to SatAM, and the stuff that was taken from SatAM was mostly executed better; the glaring exception being the characterizations of King Acorn and Sally post-Classic Era.

- Speaking of which, worst characters over the course of the series: King Maximillian Acorn, Geoffrey St. John, Drago the Wolf, Hershey the Cat, Tommy the Turtle, Colin Kintobor Sr., Evil Sonic / Scourge, Fiona the Fox, Monkey Khan, the entire Iron Dominion, Dr. Ian Droid, Locke and the Echidna Brotherhood, Dimitri and most of the Dark Legion, Monk, Hunter, Tails’ douchey parents, Zonic the Zone Cop, Mecha Robotnik, Thrash the Devil, and Lara-Su.

- In regards to shipping, the Sonic/Sally/Mina love triangle was stupid and should not have been a thing, and then after #134 Sonic and Sally should have remained broken up and Sonic shouldn’t have pursued any form of romance afterward. As for Knuckles, he should have had a period apart from Julie-Su where they both better figured themselves out without the other around, and then they could get back together (in a poly threesome with Rouge).

- The reboot was largely for the best; even without Ken Penders’ lawsuit bullshit there was so much baggage weighing the series down and it had drifted so far away from the rest of the franchise that a reboot honestly felt logical. Don’t think I’m absolving Penders though, as such a reboot absolutely should have happened on better terms than the forced way it did.

- I will always maintain that the place we ended the series at was, in fact, a good place to end the comic series. But sadly, it wasn’t a good place to end the reboot, which for all intents and purposes had only just begun and had so much more that could be done with it. I will always hold some resentment toward SEGA for not just allowing the reboot to continue under IDW, especially when Ian Flynn keeps trying to make the IDW series like the Archie series anyway.

- Favorite story arcs: Sally’s Crusade (#17-18, SP1), the Uncle Chuck arc (#30, #32, #34, #37-38), Mecha Madness (#39, SP6, #40), the Death Egg Saga (MS4), Endgame (#47-50/SS6)*, the Naugus Trilogy (#64-66), the Return of Robotnik (#72-76), Sonic Adventure (#79-85 + SS13), Sonic Adventure 2.5 (#124-125), Return to Angel Island (#138-141), Darkest Storm (#162-164), Order From Chaos (#168-169), Eggman Empire (#175-177), Enerjak Reborn (#180-184), Mogul Rising (#185-188), The Egg Phoenix Saga (#198-200), Genesis (#225-230), and much of the Shattered Earth Saga (#253-272 and #276-287).

*Almost solely for #50/SS6, although I enjoy aspects of #47 and #48 as well.

[noeggets]

Just came hear after seeing your post on Espio's feelings regarding the Mr. Tinker situation.

I've always thrived on the idea that, at some point, some of the fellas (let's say Shadow, Espio, Whisper, Omega, Lanolin and screw it let's throw in Surge and Kit) have had it up to Chaos with Sonic's pacifism towards Eggman and decide to take care of him themselves. This would eventually lead to a Civil-War situation where Team Shadow's hunting down Eggman while Sonic and his remaining allies are forced to protect him not just from the others, but maybe even the entire public who would somehow be swayed against Sonic's ideals.

So yeah thanks for coming to my TED talk or something off I go into the abyss never to step foot on your grounds ever again/j

thats a interesting situation

i don't like giving my opinion because i feel like someone is going to take this as me putting down your idea but im really not this is just how i feel with my characterization of shadow and the other guys im sorry tjnsfdkbg

i feel like a civill war could break out where the citizens of the town Sonic lives in would do this but i don't feel like Shadow would only do this if there was a driving force either between G.U.N telling him too or if he had a really strong reason (like if he thought Eggman was going to do something truly diabolical that hurts the world Shadow lives in, like doing the zobot mess again) cause he gave him a chance for Sonic already so this time he gets 0 chances

i don't think people like Sonic as a pacifist but i think the characterization of sonic being a pacifist to the point of it endangering others is really good for him and for story telling, that's his flaw, i saw somebody reblog my Espio post and say something like they hate that Sonic's pacifist but i love it jdsrhfdhgjf that's why Sonic would form a "Protect Eggman" thing because he's gonna do it with or without the help of his friends, Sonic does not care he will not let them do that to Eggman that's why he wanted to send the Zeti home cause he values their life.

Back to talking about Shadow, remember when he was talking to Sonic and Sonic said something like: remember Eggman may done a lot bad things but he helped us when it really counted and if somebody does something bad once they get no chances i should be trying to take you down with Eggman even if your not that same person anymore.

I can get on board to the idea of Espio and Whisper agreeing with Shadow that if Eggman did such a thing they shouldn't let him live anymore but i don't think Espio and Whisper would go against Sonic as to hurt him or his friends that are agreeing with him to protect Eggman, Whisper has been taught Tangle and Cream killing isn't worth it and i just don't think Espio has it in him to assassinate he'd agree with Shadow in the moment but when it came down to it i feel like Espio would rather have Eggman locked up in a high security prison over ending his life even after the whole Zobot thing cause i remember he was really pissed when he was talking to Knuckles who tried to comfort him.

I don't think Surge cares enough about Eggman but i don't im not caught up enough with the idw comic to say, her feelings but whatever she does Kit follows and i feel like she'd only be on the Eggman hunt to make Sonic's day worse and difficult, she doesn't care about Eggman she only cares about how this affects Sonic

Omega is a complex thing cause he hates Eggman and any opportunity he gets to do away with him i feel like he'd take it but Omega has a heart and if Rouge begged him not to i feel like that could end it there

i don't know enough about Lanolin but i feel like she wouldn't agree on killing Eggman but she would agree that the world would be a better place without him i feel like she could be manipulated into the idea of "if Eggman was dead we'd have less problems in the world" to the point where she thinks this is the righteous choice and let her morals take her places they shouldn't until somebody knocks her to the reality of "ending a life is bad"

THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION don't let me stop you from making cool AU's how would you rationalize these characters thinking Eggman's death is for the greater good? cause i could not and could imagine some of them thinking this way but in some lights put in the right/wrong situation i can see it

[heliianth]

Ohh im glad i didn't bother you <3 (also i ate the word where i meant he's not a sweetheart lol doesn't mean he goes out of his way to be mean to people either i wil die on that hill)I love discussing characterizations and such or analyzing trends that why i mentioned from my pespective shadow fans always mischaracterize him the most(more that sega)</3 they take him to extremes where he's too water down or he's idw shadow(sorry). Years ago it seem like people said "he's and edgy mean vegeta i hate him" and now the difference is "he's such an asshole, mean bastard lame loser i love him <3 has always been get over it". All the characters get a bad deal especially the introverts(sonic im so sorry) in favor of thing that are "funny" "relatable" "loveable lame" more to people tastes in general, is very interesting(and not my preference at all). Anyways poor guy hope someday they can set him up better(06 feels more truthful to me) there's lots of potencial for this one introvert, asocial guy(all of them please)if you want to check this blog fukurou-hoseki talk a lot about the games and analysis, especially sonic himself, bye have a good week

i agree that a lot of mischaracterization happens within fan spaces as well. i think bad portrayals, like in boom, which had a shadow with very little depth and an excess of edge, caused a lot of people to "pendulum swing" in the extreme opposite direction by insisting that shadow isn't like that at all—that he's actually very shy and nice and has friends, and all that. and while not all of that is bad, it also means lots of his flaws arent acknowledged. now we see other fans try to push back against that by insisting that hes a COMPLETE asshole, that he was always meant to be and insisting otherwise is woobifying, etc etc. like u said. very little room for middle ground sometimes. i also agree that 06 is a very good representation, and i like it mostly because it feels like a good culmination of the other games' work on his character arc

i also agree that sonic gets hit with the fanon stick really hard over here, i tend to have unpopular opinions about him and so i dont really open my mouth bc i feel like that will ruin peoples fun. shadow seems to be a more divisive character so i feel more comfortable poking fun at ideas i disagree with or stating my opinion, but theres seemingly such a wide "consensus" abt sonic that i feel like i would risk swinging at a hornets nest, even if i dont think anyone who would see it would actually be mean like that :')

i have heard of that user, i think ive scrolled thru their blog a few times so i kind of understand what they get at. i may follow in the future & i may not, i often get really anxious following first especially if its an analysis blog and i also do my own analysis (though i wouldn't consider my one-off jokey-tone posts serious analysis). but i agree with a lot of their sentiments, sometimes i disagree but thats just life

have a good week as well! i really loved talking with u <3