#harley quinn redemption arc series

[gothamite-rambler]

Books are the best type of apology gift

Context: Harley Quinn continues her mission to get Jason Todd to not hate her, but she can't keep following him, she needs to talk to those close to him.

Orphan (Cass) and Spoiler (Stephanie) take a break from patrolling and chat about cartoon characters on top of a building.

Orphan: My favorite character would be Patrick.

Spoiler: No way! He's so annoying. I'm a SpongeBob girl.

Orphan: Patrick is lovably dumb, SpongeBob is too loud.

Spoiler: So is Patrick.

Orphan: Not all the time.

Harley: I've always preferred Sandy!

Spoiler screamed in fear, jumping into Oracle's arm as she screamed as well.

Harley (loud): Stop screaming! It's just me!

Orphan: Oh, hi Harley.

Harley (annoyed): Jacy I understand but why are you screamin'? I jumped into the conversation so well and you're screamin'? You're masters of stealth!

Spoiler: Thanks, but-

Orphan dropped Spoiler to the ground once the terrifying moment passed.

Spoiler: Ow!

Spoiler stood to her feet, rubbing her back.

Spoiler: You sneaking up on me always unnerves me.

Orphan: I could hear your footsteps when you made it to the roof, Spoiler's screaming scared me. SpongeBob fan indeed.

Spoiler: Stand by what I said. Back to Harley, hey it's good to see you again, minus the screaming. Sorry.

Harley: You're fine, I should be used to it by now. Spoiler for you and the dark suited one, Orphan?

Orphan: Correct, it's nice to see you as well. You came here for a purpose. Your body language suggests you’re stressed, what is it that bothers you?

Harley: Geez Batman wasn't kidding about your body reading skills. You got me, I need some help with Jason. He hates me.

Spoiler: He kind of has a disdain for everyone. Except for Nightwing, Signal... and Orphan.

Orphan nodded.

Spoiler: Wait, you know his real name?

Orphan: She was there when he died, she remembers his real name from that. She calls him Jacey as an endearing nickname.

Harley (resting her bat behind on her shoulders): Yup, which he hates. I save the kid when he's tied up in a building, we fought Snowflame and I gave him a puffy cat sticka, but he hates my guts. I get it, but we're trauma siblings! We have a special bond that can only be fixed with fighting other baddies.

Spoiler gasped.

Spoiler: Trauma siblings! That's me and Orphan! That doesn't work on him?

Harley: No!

Harley planted her bat on the ground, groaning.

Harley: I offered my therapy services, too.

Spoiler (doubtful): Yeah, but you're not an actual therapist, you-

Harley (aiming her bat at Spoiler's nose): If you say I slept with a professor to pass college, I'll bop you in the arm. I am intelligent! Wouldn't have gotten with Ivy if I was a ditz.

Spoiler (lowering the bat): Sorry, dude. To be honest, I got nothing to help you with. It took me two years to have Jason talk to me for longer than a minute.

Harley shoulders slumped defeated, unsure what to do next. Orphan taps her chin wondering what advice to give.

Orphan: It took a year and a half to befriend him, you're off to a good start with being nice to him. I suggest giving him a better peace offering. He likes books, get him a book.

Harley: A book? What's he into?

Spoiler (guessing): Mystery, fantasy, and historical fiction.

Orphan (correctly answering): No, it's sci-fi not fantasy. I'd recommend something akin to Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, historical fiction he's been wanting to read Lady Macbeth and the Bridgeton series, any book will work there. His detective book interests are random.

Spoiler (mystified): Sometimes I wonder how you know these things.

Orphan: Batman keeps a file on his interests so he can send him the best birthday gifts. He has one for all of us.

Spoiler: Wait, is that why he bought those boxing gloves for my birthday last year?

Orphan nodded in response. Spoiler's eyes lit up as she fist-pumped in excitement at this revelation. Meanwhile, Harley mulled over the new information. With some cash stashed away from selling items she had snagged from the Joker a few weeks earlier, she realized she wanted Jason to see that she was trying to be a better person.

Harley: If books are a way to show that I'm trustworthy—or at least likable—then I've got some shopping to do! Thanks, girls… but mostly you, Orphan!

Spoiler (waving her hand, annoyed): Hey, I suggested books first!

Harley: You got most of 'em wrong and no suggestions. She told me about Bridgeton.

Orphan (gentle nod): No problem.

Harley waved goodbye, pivoting on her heel and sprinting across the rooftops with effortless agility.

Spoiler: I like her. She's insane, but likable.

Orphan: Agreed. Now Squidward or Mr. Krabs?

Spoiler: Mr. Krabs, obviously.

Orphan: We've arrived at another impasse.

-----------------------------

The next day, after splurging two hundred dollars on books at a local shop, Harley stacked them neatly in Jason's car. Lacking the skills to pick a lock, she resorted to tossing a rock to gain entry. It might not have been the smartest choice, but then again, her critical thinking hadn’t exactly been sharp since she’d jumped into that vat of Joker toxin.

Jason arrived at his car that morning for a leisurely drive around town, only to be met with the sight of a broken window and shards of glass strewn across the front seat. He let out a resigned sigh.

Jason: Great, just what I needed.

He carefully wiped the glass off his seat while wearing gloves and then settled into the car. His gaze fell on a tote bag of books resting in the front passenger seat.

Jason: Why are there—who breaks into a car and leaves a gift?

His eyes then caught a note tucked within the bag.

Jason (reading the note): Jacey—Oh my God, how did she find out where I live?!—I bought a bunch of books I think you'll like, plus a few that helped me when I needed help, but mostly a lot of Bridgerton. I snagged the five new ones. I also found Lady Macbeth in a collector's edition. I paid for them with my own money, don’t worry, not stealing. I hope this shows I’m truly sorry for what happened to you.

Jason let out a long, exasperated sigh.

Jason: I hate that this is actually a nice gift.

He picked up the top book and realized it’s the latest Bridgerton novel.

Jason: God damn it, I didn’t even know this one was out yet.

With a mix of regret and lingering mistrust for Harley, he contemplated giving her another chance—after all, he had been given one himself.

Jason: She actually did something this nice? It’s a start.

Harley Saves Jason

[poisonousquinzel]

Batman: The Animated Series Harley Quinn being the Blueprint for Modern Harley Quinn

my actual version of this post

Working On The Side Of / With The Batfam

Harlequinade (EP) • "Batman and Robin have no time to spare in stopping the Joker from detonating an atomic bomb, so they enlist the help of Harley Quinn to hunt the Joker down."

Batgirl Adventures • "When Poison Ivy is captured by mobsters, Harley Quinn must act quickly to save her, so she turns to the only hero she can find: Batgirl!"

Batman: Gotham Adventures #43 • "Who's out to get Harley Quinn? Batman has to take her on as a sidekick to find out. The answer awaits deep in Harley's history...that is, if she and the Dark Knight survive the traps set for them all over Gotham!"

Batman: The Adventures Continue Season 1 (2020) #12 | Season 3 #2, #5, #7

-

Also before anyone comes @ me all "oh but what about her participating in the Death in the Family storyline", I've made a post here talking about the exacts of Harley's involvement in Jason's death.

Trying To Have A Better, Reformed Life / Redemption Arc

Batman: The Animated Series "Harley's Holiday"

Batman: Gotham Adventures #10

Batman: The Adventures Continue Season 3 (2023) #2

Ending Scene In Batman Beyond: Return Of The Joker

Being A Little Goofy Gal

Batman: The Adventures Continue Season 2 (2020) #7

Batman: The Animated Series • "Holiday Knights", "Harlequinade", "The Man Who Killed Batman"

Dressing Revealingly / Being Sexual

Batman: The Animated Series • "Harley & Ivy", "Harley's Holiday", "Holiday Knights", "Beware The Creeper"

The Batman Adventures: Mad Love

Being Bisexual (cry about it♡)

Paul Dini: When Bruce and I did the Harley and Ivy miniseries, it was certainly implied that [Ivy and Harley] had a relationship with each other—they shared hugs and kisses. I didn’t want that to overpower what the story was, but the relationship between them is so natural.

Paul Dini: The more I worked with [Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy], the more I could see [a romantic relationship] happening. Unfortunately, at the time, in an animated kids cartoon, you really couldn’t get into the complexity of that or honor what a relationship like that could really be. We just showed them together as friends and on fairly intimate terms when they were out of the costume, but nothing was implicit because if we couldn’t do that relationship properly then we didn’t want to do it at all.

Batman: The Animated Series • "Holiday Knights"

Batgirl Adventures (1997)

Love Is Love (2016)

Batman: The Adventures Continue Season 3 #2-7

Breaking The Fourth Wall

Batman: The Animated Series • "Harley's Holiday"

HQ, turning her head towards the camera: "Talk about grasping at straws. Oh, well, at least I'm going out on a joke."

Being A Domestic Violence Victim (And That Being A Prevalent Aspect Of Her Story)

"Everyone else sees the Joker laugh, only Harley has ever seen him cry. It's the only reason she stays with him.

Harleen, having once been a therapist, has touched onto his vulnerability. She knows who he is underneath. That’s what keeps her there."

- Arleen Sorkin [Batman: Animated | Interview Add-On Comment]

Batman: The Animated Series • "The Laughing Fish", "Harley & Ivy", "Mad Love"

Justice League • "Wild Cards"

The Batman Adventures: Mad Love (comic)

Harley Quinn: Mad Love (Novel)

Batman: The Animated Series | The New Batman Adventures Episodes

Harlequinade Aired: May 23, 1994 Writer: Paul Dini Director: Kevin Altieri

Harley's Holiday Aired: October 15, 1994 Writer: Paul Dini Director: Kevin Altieri

Holiday Knights Aired: September 13, 1997 Writer: Paul Dini Director: Dan Riba

The Man Who Killed Batman Aired: February 1, 1993 Writer: Paul Dini Director: Bruce Timm

Harley & Ivy Aired: January 18, 1993 Writer: Paul Dini Director: Boyd Kirkland

Beware The Creeper Aired: November 7, 1998 Writer: Rich Fogel Story by: Steve Gerber Director: Dan Riba

The Laughing Fish Aired: January 10, 1993 Writer: Paul Dini Director: Bruce Timm

Mad Love Aired: January 16, 1999 Writer: Paul Dini Story by: Bruce Timm & Paul Dini Director: Butch Lukic

Justice League Wild Cards Aired: December 6, 2003 Writer: Stan Berkowitz and Dwayne McDuffie Director: Butch Lukic

Ending Scene In Batman Beyond: Return Of The Joker Story: Paul Dini, Glen Murakami, Bruce Timm Screenplay: Paul Dini Director: Curt Geda

The Batman Adventures: Mad Love Writers: Paul Dini, Bruce Timm Pencilers: Bruce Timm Inkers: Bruce Timm Colorists: Bruce Timm, Rick Taylor Letterers: Tim Harkins Editors: Scott Peterson, Darren Vincenzo

Batman: Gotham Adventures #43 Writers: Scott Peterson Pencilers: Tim Levins Inkers: Terry Beatty Colorists: Lee Loughridge Letterers: Albert DeGuzman Editors: Joan Hilty, Harvey Richards

Batman: Gotham Adventures #10 Writers: Ty Templeton Pencilers: Rick Burchett Inkers: Terry Beatty Colorists: Lee Loughridge Letterers: Tim Harkins Editors: Darren Vincenzo

Batman: The Adventures Continue Season 1 #12 Writers: Alan Burnett, Paul Dini Pencilers: Ty Templeton Inkers: Ty Templeton Colorists: Monica Kubina Letterers: Josh Reed Editors: Andrew Marino

Batman: The Adventures Continue Season 2 #7 Writers: Alan Burnett, Paul Dini Pencilers: Rick Burchett Inkers: Rick Burchett Colorists: Monica Kubina Letterers: Josh Reed Editors: Andrew Marino

Batman: The Adventures Continue Season 3 #2 Writers: Alan Burnett, Paul Dini Pencilers: Kevin Altieri Inkers: Kevin Altieri Colorists: Monica Kubina Letterers: Josh Reed Editors: Andrew Marino, Ben Meares, Katie Kubert

Batman: The Adventures Continue Season 3 #5 Writers: Alan Burnett, Paul Dini Pencilers: Ty Templeton Inkers: Ty Templeton Colorists: Monica Kubina Letterers: Josh Reed Editors: Ben Meares, Andrew Marino, Katie Kubert

Batman: The Adventures Continue Season 3 #7 Writers: Alan Burnett, Paul Dini Pencilers: Ty Templeton Inkers: Ty Templeton Colorists: Monica Kubina Letterers: Josh Reed Editors: Ben Meares, Andrew Marino, Katie Kubert

Batgirl Adventures (1997) Writers: Paul Dini Pencilers: Rick Burchett Inkers: Rick Burchett Colourists: Rick Taylor Letterers: Albert DeGuzman Editors: Scott Peterson, Darren Vincenzo

Love is Love (2016) Writer: Paul Dini Illustrator: Bill Morrison Colourist: Robert Stanley Letterer: Sal Cipriano

Harley Quinn: Mad Love (Novel) Written By: Pat Cadigan and Paul Dini

I am aware this last one isn't technically in the BTAS universe, but later on in the novel, it blends into the Mad Love comic/episode and then goes past it. I only used scenes that were originally featured in the comic/episode as they are just those scenes in a purely written form.

Harley Quinn: Mad Love (Novel) Pg. 261 He lowered his head and slumped, the very picture of dejection. Harley couldn’t stand to see him that way. She cuddled up next to him and took him in her arms. “I know how to make some smiles, puddin’,” she said in a playful, sultry voice. His whole body stiffened under her touch. “Puddin’?” But she knew it was hopeless; she’d done the wrong thing again. A moment later, he was leading her down the stairs by her nose, pinching it so hard between his thumb and forefinger that she cried out on every step. “Ow-ow-ow-ow-ow! That hurts! It really, really hurts! Please, puddin’—” He pinched even harder as he led her to the door, opened it, then turned her around. “How many times do I have to tell you?” he roared, applying his foot to her backside. “Don’t call me puddin’!” Harley scrambled to her feet just as he slammed the door in her face. She started to beg him to let her in but suddenly all the fight went out of her and she sank down to sit cross-legged in front of the door. Thrown out again; how many times was this? She’d lost count. No, she hadn’t. This was the twenty-fifth time. That averaged out at roughly three times a week for the past two months. - Harley Quinn: Mad Love (Novel) Pg. 255 “Hey, that’s a real gasser, ain’t it, Mistah J?” she said between giggles. In the next moment, Gordon thought the nitrous was making him hallucinate as events took a sharp turn into the surreal. The Joker grabbed the floppy points on Harley’s hat, pulling her to him so they were nose to nose. “I deliver the punchlines around here!” he bellowed into her face. “Got that?” “Yessir,” Harley Quinn said, her voice tiny and fearful. The Joker shoved her aside and the jolly Clown Prince of Crime persona was back.

[arkhamasyl-m]

My (DC) Comic Hot Takes (Although most of them are pretty popular….)

Barbara Gordon should’ve stayed Oracle, and had Cassandra Cain as the main Batgirl from then on. Stephanie Brown can stay as Spoiler.

The Gotham City Sirens fundamentally do not work as a team up, because Catwoman is not a villain at all anymore, and Harley Quinn is an anti-hero for some reason. Ivy is in a weird spot where she is neither a villain nor an anti-hero. They don’t work as a team up because none of their goals align and they aren’t close enough to just be friends (Harley and Ivy are the exception.) I mean even in the actual comic series they don’t work well at all. Maybe they could work in Elseworld’s and Oneshots, but not in the main continuity.

DC should stop doing “Trinity” stuff, if they’re only going to focus on Batman and Superman. I get having all 3 is more interesting, but if Wonder Woman is just off to the side and her lore is not given the same love as Batman and Superman’s, you might as well do a World’s Finest story with a Wonder Woman cameo.

Adding onto my last point, Wonder Woman should get a new main design. Both Batman and Superman have reverted back to their “classic” designs, whilst Wonder Woman is over there in her DCEU tie-in costume.

Some villains, especially Batman ones, should stay fully redeemed. Riddler, Mister Freeze and Two Face should all get redemption arcs and stay redeemed, otherwise Batman’s whole ideology is kinda proven wrong.

Riddler should’ve stayed a detective.

The Batfamily should be smaller and Harley should never, EVER, be part of the Batfamily.

Selina and Bruce should stay married.

Selina should be as much of a surrogate mother to the Batfamily kids as Bruce is a surrogate father. (Whenever a writer makes Selina flirty with Dick or Jason I want to shoot myself.)

Wonder Woman should always have the clay origin backstory, fuck the Zeus thing.

Killer Moth should be written like an Anti-Batman more often, and shouldn’t be dumbed down to a joke villain, but also shouldn’t become some edgy, Zack Snyder level of angst.

I preferred when Red Hood was an Anti-hero who killed villains. I get why that changed but c’mon.

As much as I adore the Arkham franchise, a lot of character mischaracterisations started growing from those games (Harley Quinn, Two Face, Robin and even fucking Batman I’m so sorry…)

[tinyreviews]

Writing Tips: Antagonist, or Villain

An antagonist is merely a character that obstructs the protagonist, and not necessarily a villain(bad person), but I will be using antagonist and villain interchangeably here.

Antithesis to the Hero:

Thematic Opposition: A great villain embodies contrasting values, beliefs, or goals, creating a dynamic conflict.

Menacing Presence: The villain’s actions and goals should genuinely endanger the protagonist or what they hold dear.

Personal Conflict: The villain should have a direct connection to the hero's past, values, or motivations. This personal stake intensifies the conflict.

Writing the Villain:

Plot Impact: The villain's actions should significantly affect the plot. Their presence should drive the story forward and create pivotal moments. The villain is the one whose presence and actions all other characters react to.

Hero's Threat: A compelling villain should be skilled at exploiting the hero's vulnerabilities, capable of challenging the hero both mentally and physically. This forces the hero to make difficult choices and reveals their true character.

Competing Goals: The hero and villain should have conflicting but shared goals. This competition creates ongoing conflict, leading to character growth and revelations. Think of the Joker and Batman competing for the soul of Gotham.

Complex Personality: Give your villain depth. They should have their own motivations, flaws, and a personality that makes them interesting to the audience.

Meaningful Conclusion: A villain's fate should be meaningful to the story. Whether they meet their demise or undergo a change, it should resonate with the narrative.

Types of Villains:

Pure Evil Villain: These villains often lack a complex backstory, have simple motivations like gaining power or revenge, exude raw enthusiasm for villainy, and display unwavering self-confidence. They may experience a third-act breakdown that signals their potential defeat. Sometimes they survive their breakdown and come back more nuanced. Such villains are beyond redemption, and their arc often concludes with their demise.

Fallen Hero: A hero turned villain feels like a tragic transformation. This archetype can be consistent before and after the fall, like Light from Death Note. Alternatively, they can be transformed by circumstances, like Harvey Dent. This theme represents the fragility of heroism and serve as a cautionary tale to the existing hero.

Satan Archetype: Light from Death Note, Griffith from Berserk. Doomed to fall by their personality. Their character is consistent before and after the fall.

Adam Archetype: Harvey Dent from Batman, Anakin Skywalker from Star Wars. Doomed to fall by circumstance. Usually, their faith in higher authority or power is shattered, they lose someone important, or is slowly transformed by someone or something. Their character is transformed by the fall. 

Just Antagonist: Probably the most common type of villain, they exist simply because the plot requires a character to obstruct the hero.They usually want the same thing as the hero and compete with the hero for it.

Fleshing out the Villain:

Show what they are planning(provides tension).

Show their interactions(and with who?) behind the scenes.

Show how they handle successes and setbacks(what kind of person are they?).

Show what they do to entertain themselves besides villainy(nuanced). 

Give them a foil sidekick(villainous drama): chaotic Hexadecimal, loyal Harley Quinn, cowardly Starscream, all action Darth Vader.

This is part of my Writing Tips series. Everyday I publish a writing tip to this blog.

[howdoesagrapewrites]

Opinions on HBO Harley Quinn's show (spoilers ahead)

Disappointing. The decision to make Harley a hero, and not only that, but part of the batfamily, was already a bold one, it was already hard to execute right. So I won't blame Sarah Peters for (until now) failing to do that smoothly. I think there's three specific points that made me dislike this season

1. The lack of a dynamic and constant supporting cast: in the previous seasons, there were many cool subplots and characters that made the show entertaining and kept it from getting stale, one of my favorites was Joker's whole (you could call it redemption arc?) Of becoming a father and the major of Gotham, and Bruce's zombie parent thing. It was funny, unexpected and whacky, and that's kind of the whole spirit of the series, that it never took itself seriously, and created weird scenarios that you would never predict, it kept the character's personality enough to be an accurate caricature. So far we only got Alfred on Arkham (this was honestly gold, and we should've gotten so much content about this, but it has been mentioned once since chapter 3) and that sketchy Bruce Wayne DJ gig. I also think they've should given us a Talia-Damian episode, because Talia wanting to bond with her son and being so clueless is hilarious.

2. "We gotta prove we're adults now": what I dislike the most about adult animation is the need to constantly include sex and violence as if to reassure us that we're watching an adult show and we didn't accidentally turned on cocomelon. The show was violent and explicit since the beginning, but it was in a "we mock the canon typical violence by making it be gross and out of pocket" way and the sex jokes were funny like Fleabag's sex jokes are funny, because the main character is hypersexual and cannot keep things PG for the life of her, and it makes people around her feel unamused and done with her antics. But in this season it feels forced, and what I will say next is related to it

3. NIGHTWING, Nightwing as a whole in this season is horrible. The butt jokes in the first episode were "okay, this is funny because Harley keep bringing up sexual stuff when she's supposed to be serious, and makes a fool of herself" even the first episode was a little weird, but it was tolerable, it should've ended there. Dick Grayson is so overly sexualized and seeing a show that's supposed to be woke and shit keep making the most icky jokes ever, pathetic. This also goes for the "You're basically a cop and I have to make sure no brown person gets killed" line. Uncalled for, and distasteful, see, the reason why a joke like that could be tastefully delivered, is if your social commentary were actual social commentary (something that this show has done before) and not a "look how political we are" one-liner that will never be looked into. If not, you're just being an asshole.

I'd say the only good thing in this season is Talia, if they hadn't whitewashed both her and Damian. So the most salvageable thing is Alfred, he stays strong.

[goodolreliablejake]

Not that anyone asked, but Spike (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) and Harley Quinn (Batman: The Animated Series) are the same character.

Here we have a show that is known for its big, bombastic villains, who effortlessly collect flunkies. Among these flunkies, a few get names and themes that are strong enough to carry a few episodes and distinguish themselves (Captain Clown, Mo' Lar' and Cur', Mr. Trick, Luke, those twins that Two Face has in his debut, etc.) but don't quite make it to Big Bad Level. The show's creators decide to introduce one such Little Bad with a distinctive regional accent, bleach blonde hair, and a cool black and red outfit. They're a good mid-tier physical threat to our hero and implied to be smarter than they seem, but a little too impulsive to really be more than that. It's a great supporting role for a character actor.

But then the audience loves this character more than anyone expected and clamors for them to be brought back again and again. Eventually, they throw the audience a bone with a few episodes that flesh out them out, and characterize them as a lovesick character in an abusive relationship. This isn't really given weight, though, not initially at least. In fact, it's kind of treated as a joke ("Harlequinade," "Lovers Walk").

Then comes their big moment, their spotlight episode where we finally get their full backstory, and it casts those previous jokes in a darker light. Seeing this bit character as a figure of genuine pathos re-frames them as tragic, which gives them the potential to become a true protagonist ("Mad Love" and "Fool For Love"). At that point, a redemption arc taking them from villain to Anti-hero (with the potential to some day maybe even become a full blown hero) becomes inevitable and character defining.

All told, it's the story of how an impromptu character arc became more powerful than anything we could have planned.

[batsarebetterthanpeople]

As I have said before the only Izzy redemption arc I'm ok with is one that follows the lines of the Joker from the Harley Quinn animated series

Like sometimes you were an abuser and the person you did that to doesn't forgive you and the only way you can move on from that is to just go away and cause that person as few problems as possible and not do it to anybody else

[ultramaga]

You can't write a female characters with actual flaws unless you acknowledge that women can have flaws.

The trouble is that the idea of class conflict was turned into the "war of the sexes" theory by Feminists and such (long story), and in class conflict you have the helpless victim who never did nuffin, and the evil oppressor who just evils because evilness. There's no hope of seeing people as individuals if you use a collectivist filter. This is why current female characters suck, and yet the male characters that exist to be the bad guys are STILL MORE INTERESTING.

Feminists write male characters that are deeply flawed. But they cannot do the same for women. Even female characters that were outright villains, child murderers, serial killers, they have to be excused, they have to be have been perfectly good and just didn't realise it.

Harley Quinn was a corrupt psychologist who cheated and fucked her way into power, then was in turn corrupted into the Joker's punching bag. The Feminist revision made her not responsible for anything. It was the Joker. Without him, in the comics, suddenly she is the hero. Hell, in the current cartoon series, she's the most important person in the universe. No redemption, no struggle. She is perfect and just didn't realise it.

We see this over and over in our fictions. Hell, even Cleopatra on Netflix was rewritten so not only was she black, but she never did nuffin. The real woman was infinitely more interesting, because she was the same blend of light and darkness as every other ruler, but we can't have a woman being as bad as a man, so she was perfect all along and only fell because the stupid men didn't realise it.

And all these artworks fail, except for Barbie which made a fortune but ... somehow the thing people remember about it is ...

The stupid, inferior, subhuman clumsy dolt who was a villain because - he tried to introduce equal rights and democracy into a matriarchy. He is beloved and raved about. I noticed even the Feminists here didn't have much to say about Margot's character. She's not memorable, despite being theoretically beautiful. She's so bland that nobody remembers her, and weirdly desexed, even as she boasts she has a vagggginnna.

What I find hilarious about Madame Web is the female stars know better than the movie makers how to make a movie. You know what men will pay to see? Dakota gets it.

Sydney certainly understood. Sex sells. A movie with three hot chicks when made by Feminists not only has no character arcs, but no sex. Yet the minute the actresses are out of their control, they put on the sexiest outfits they can find. They know that this is how you put bums in seats. Even if the movie is awful. And it worked - men went to see that movie. Women stayed at home.

If you start from the position of hatred towards men, you make movies that not only don't appeal to most men, but to few women. Yet it is trivial to make movies that appeal to both by giving men pretty women who are capable but who still need men, or as in the Charlie's Angels case, are sooo hot that the men watching don't care.

And I will never buy the Feminist line that the female fantasy is about being a strong woman who don' need no man, because the movies and books they consume, overwhelmingly, are about flawed women and men, who need each other.

Fifty Shades of Grey completely undermines Feminism, it is definitely a woman centred story about a woman by a woman for women, and yet the woman does everything a feminist is not supposed to do, and the female audience loved it. Terrible story, I'd rather chew rocks than watch it, but completely successful with women because hawt. Sex sells, to women and to men. Sells differently, yes, but ignore it at your peril.

And most women know it, which is why twerking exists, and why women pad their butts, or even get implants.

Which is why women like to cosplay as the old x-men Rogue, and show off their butts. Which is why in the feminist revision, they erased the butts. No butts for you, you feelthy mennnn! I'd argue X-Men had great stories but they knew damned well that sex sells, and it is there every now and then. Women like to be sexy to men, and like to be lusted after, and that only works if you allow men to be lustful. Feminism says that is male gaze, objectification, misogyny! I'd say it was human nature. Deny it at your peril. Embrace the butt!

Make stories and movies that have sex, or have characterisation, or ideally have both, and stop the shaming of masculinity which takes out femininity as collateral. You can write bad stories that will sell anyway if you stuff them with sex - heck, most 80s movies just had women as cheesecake, and I can see why that was irritating. But the pendulum swung the opposite way.

And you can certainly write great stories without sex in them. I rather hope people aren't reading Watership Down one handed. But I think the best - or at least, most commercially successful - stories etc. have sex and character growth and failures for women and men.

Yes, there's sex in Zootopia, even if the actors argued about it. It doesn't have to be on the surface.

The audience knew damned well what was going on.

nah cause the fact that jane austen wrote a character like emma woodhouse is still insane to me. she threw all the standards out the window and was like hey, here’s this incredibly complex and nuanced character, she’s selfish, privileged, manipulative and arrogant, but she’s also really fucking kind, she would do anything for those she loves (including sacrificing a lot of her liberties), she is able to admit that she’s made a mistake and grow from it, because those things are not mutually exclusive. and i think the reason why everyone is trying to girlbossify their heroines to make them like lizzie bennet (which is an insult to her character but that’s another story) is because they’re scared to write characters like emma. which is understandable, because she’s unlikeable-ish, and they don’t want to take that risk.

honestly the way jane wrote emma is IMPECCABLE and not everyone can pull it off, but i wish female characters with actual flaws were more popular.

[ao3feed-brucewayne]

Short Sharp Shock

read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/dWkKV7f by SwampSpirit Owlman controls everything in Gotham, from the gutters to city hall. By his side is his loyal Talon, a creature that is fearfully whispered about, an inhuman, immortal killer. In truth, Talon is human, or, more accurately, five different humans using the same identity. Bruce’s expectations are demanding, but failing to meet them means death. Talons are taught unquestioning obedience to Bruce, selfless service to Gotham, and deep loyalty to family. Talon is human, and each of them have their own cracks in their ruthless commitment to Owlman’s cause. Slowly, between those cracks, small, delicate things try to grow. Words: 4657, Chapters: 1/?, Language: English Series: Part 1 of How a Blade Loves Fandoms: Batman - All Media Types, Batman (Comics) Rating: Mature Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Categories: F/M, Gen Characters: Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, Alfred Pennyworth, Sasha Bordeaux, Harley Quinn, Lex Luthor Relationships: Dick Grayson & Jason Todd, Stephanie Brown & Tim Drake, Cassandra Cain & Dick Grayson, Bruce Wayne & Robins, Stephanie Brown/Tim Drake Additional Tags: Earth-3, sorta - Freeform, hero-villain swap, Owlman - Freeform, Bruce Wayne is Owlman, Dark Bruce Wayne, Dark Wayne Family, PTSD, Abuse, Cult tactics, Manipulation, pre-redemption arc, Talons are dark robins not court zombies, Assassination, not Bruce bashing, straight up AU Evil Bruce, Fake Dating, But not in the fun way, detailed warnings in notes read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/dWkKV7f

[electricprincess96]

I have found this just chilling in my drafts and well who doesn't want more of me bitching about Jason's design (2 of these are literally just that but hey there's some there that's not)

I likely have way more controversial opinions than this but considering this has been laying in my drafts unfinished for a few weeks now I can't be bothered thinking of more to add to here you go.

_____________________________________

Want more ot my controversial DC Comics (mostly Batman) takes? No? Too bad this is my blog.

Red head Jason Todd is a crime against humanity and fans who call for its return can eat my shoe. Jason's designs in DC Rebirth, Under the Red Hood movie and the Arkham series are all perfect blueprints for what Jason Todd should always look like. I don't need them to turn him into a Roy Harper clone (especially not now that Roy is literally one of Jason's best friends). Also the argument that red head Jason is canon bothers me since the origin in which he had red hair was quite quickly retconned and every version of Jason's actual canon origin story he's always had black or dark brown hair in it.

Wonder Woman is the actual darkest and most violent of the Trinity because she can and will go to places and do things Batman or Superman will not. That doesn't make them worse characters than her but the idea that Batman is the dark, gritty one is laughable when Diana will snap a man's neck. Diana has literally went to war, she has seen and done things her colleagues could only imagine.

Harley Quinn is not the most deserving of Batman's rogues gallery for a redemption arc and let's all be real if she wasn't attractive with a sad backstory she wouldn't be constantly being pushed in both the mainstream and the comics as more of an antihero than a villain. Mr Freeze and Poison Ivy are both better contenders for antihero status but they've both been tainted in the mainstream by the Schumacher film.

Back to bitching about bad Jason Todd designs but eh Red Hood should ALWAYS have a helmet. None of this half mask/domino mask bullshit with an actual hood up. The only time a Red Hood design with an actual hood up has looked good was Arkham. The peak Red Hood design is brown leather jacket, tactical vest underneath with red bat symbol, gun holsters in a similar colour to his jacket, military grade trousers with knee and shin guards, boots to match the jacket AND A RED HELMET. More New52/Early DC Rebirth Outlaws design and less Gotham Wars please and thank you.

Barbara Gordon should never have returned to being Batgirl. Now listen I love Babs, the Gotham Knights quartet of Dick, Babs, Jason and Tim are arguably my favourite group of characters in DC comics. But Babs as Oracle was iconic, I'm aware she's still doing her work as Oracle alongside Batgirl but I don't like that, it's making her juggle too much. Babs as Oracle almost put her on an equal or even greater standing than Bruce within the Bat Family. Like ok he was the patriarch of the Family, he started it but Babs RAN it, nothing got done in that family without Oracle's say so. And I just felt that her being paralysed by the Joker, yet still finding a way to work around her injury and continue to help fight crime in her own way, a way only she could was very empowering. Barbara Gordon was the role model young girls needed and while she is still that as Batgirl I think it was just that little bit more impactful as just Oracle.

[poisonousquinzel]

"HQTAS not having the balls to permanently kill Joker off continues to be one of its biggest faults and I will not forgive them for that."

Their biggest fault is causing the upsurgence of casual pro Joker posts in Harley's tag in light of episodes showing him being "normal" and "based" and "wow look at him! being a socialist! and wanting healthcare!"

wow! it's almost like I don't really give a shit what political stance this domestic abuser takes in this show called Harley Quinn, ya know, the name of the ex he violently and graphically abused throughout the entirety of their relationship?

But oh! Whatever! if he's turned over a new leaf, Who cares! The past's the past's and the writers would rather redeem him! For some stupid ass reason! (Spoiler alert: It's because he's popular and they're cowards)

So let's forget how he literally murdered Poison Ivy!

& forget how he tortured her crew! And planned to have them publicly executed ! Lol!!

He's a cool dad now! He's hip! Whoo!!

Forget about all that abuse in the first season haha! It wasn't plot important anyway!

What's PTSD?! That's not a thing lol Harley would totally not have PTSD from him, they're buddies now! just ignore the little bits of obvious lasting trauma like her flinching

he's taking over her twitter! so sorry if you happen to follow this account and find him triggering or anything lol cause he's hijacking it for his run for mayor! & now he's all over your timeline,, isn't he quirky

He makes jokes about limber she is-- while her private sexual encounter is being broadcasted to all of Gotham WITHOUT HER CONSENT-- and how "violence was a hallmark of our relationship too", cause he's just such a fucking peach now y'all

That was last season.

In episode 12.

While he had a Girlfriend.

He has not owned up to his own actions.

He's not some Reformed Domestic Abuser who's long since changed, shown he's changed and is sorry for what he did because he has not even taken accountability for the fact that No, violence wasn't a "hallmark of their relationship." It wasn't some quirky occurrence to look back at with a sigh of fondness.

Abuse was the staple of their relationship. Abuse that was inflicted by his fucking hands.

The Joker is a monster.

Harley Quinn: The Animated Series version of him is one just as well.

Even just from the part of the cycle we saw from Season 1, he was absolutely at his worst. It's not even like they toned it down for this, they built him up to be the monster that he is and then tried to backpedal and are now pretending he's just a completely different dude now that he's not with Harley.

News Flash, but Harley wasn't the first woman Joker's manipulated into helping him while simultaneously leading them to believe they were mutually falling in love

She's just one of the only survivors.

Because that's what she did. For years. Survived.

And sorryyyy, but I ain't exactly known for looking past The Joker's abusive transgressions and I'm sure as shit not starting now just because he's had a pitifully rushed "redemption" arc with some poorly iced He's A Socialist frosting on top.

Or am I supposed to pretend like in Season 1, Episode 8 he didn't put his manipulation skills to full use and, to add insult to injury, knowing he was going to push her out of the plane, he still kissed her.

Multiple times.

He initiated the kiss. He moved down her neck.

There was no fucking reason he needed to do that. It was just another thing he knew he could do to hurt her.

He pushed so many lines in that episode and then immediately shoved her out of a plane.

He relished in it.

Knowing how much trust she'd just put in him, how much she'd let her guard down and trusted him. She just admitted she dreamed of these moments, of escaping with him.

Because he had abandoned her so many fucking times.

Harley: I used to dream about this moment.

The Joker, laughing amusedly: Oh, Harley, I couldn't leave you on the boat.

I need you.

And then he kissed her! He fucking kissed her!

The Joker: For this.

He pulls her in and repeatedly kisses her.

Harley, making happy noises of approval and giddiness as she kisses him back.

The Joker, quietly as he kisses her neck: That's it.

Batman appears next to them, but Harley's none the wiser as she's gazing happily up at him.

The Joker: And this! Aha Ha Ha Ha!

He violently shoves her through the door of the plane into open air, cackling maniacally.

And she trusted him.

Harley trusted that this time was different. Because she wasn't his henchwoman anymore, she wasn't Her anymore. This was different. She'd escaped with him! They were on equal grounds now...

He respected her. She was important. She was a part of The Legion of Doom. She was a big shot now.

And that's exactly what he meant to do. Because he knew he had to this time, he had to lure her deeper. He had to slather the love bombing on thick to get her to drop her guard.

He had to pretend he was fine with them being equals.

So he did.

He pretended and he acted and he played her. He was cruel.

The mask did have cracks, it absolutely did. It angered him having her correct him and it angered him having to pretend he found her to be a master equal to him.

The Joker: No, I believe it's the student becomes A Master equal to the original master, but not with more mastery than that master.

It was something he couldn't pretend for a moment to believe. He couldn't even lower his ego enough to say a quote correctly "The student becomes the master." because he does not value her as equally.

And after love bombing her all evening long, after watching her drop her guard.

After she admitted she'd dreamed of these moments of escaping with him. After he kissed her.

He shoves her out of a plane once Batman has caught up with them.

Grinning like a maniac.

He knew, he always knew. He enjoyed what he did to her and he's never owned up to anything.

Hurting her is a game to him. He enjoys it. He's always fucking enjoyed it.

He murdered her best friend. Happily!

He captured her remaining friends and tortured them. He planned to hold a public execution.

He wanted to entirely isolate her so she'd have no other choice but to return to him, cause there's no other options if he kills them all.

And, then this part.

This is the entire reason this post isn't a reblog because I don't think just making gifs of this scene does it justice in terms of how sinister he sounds so:

The Joker, chuckling: I want you to put this on.

Cackles darkly before throwing it at her.

Come on, remember how much fun you had in that costume?

Harley: No... I didn't have fun... You were the one having fun. It wasn't till I got away from you that I realized how deeply unfun being with you was!

So I would rather blow myself up and take you with me then go back to being your sidekick and wearing that fucking costume!!

The Joker: So, how about you make this easy and put. The Outfit. On.

"violence was a hallmark of our relationship too"

all of this happened in Season 1.

He says that in Season 2 folks.

Again.

Abuse was a hallmark of their relationship. On his part. He was abusive.

That's not what he said. And he said it with a sigh of "ah, good times" vibes

He looks back on his abusive actions with fondness.

He found humor and pleasure in hurting her and thinking back on it is a good memory for him. It's not a Bad Thing he did that he's remorseful for because all those memories are things he views as good moments.

"violence was a hallmark of our relationship too"

Hall-Mark

noun noun: hallmark; plural noun: hallmarks

• a distinctive feature, especially one of excellence.

He didn't do any of this because he had beef with Poison Ivy, or any of the members of her crew individually.

It all had to do with hurting her.

To get one up on her.

He knew Ivy was important to her.

He knew Ivy was a threat to him when it came to achieving his end goal of erasing Harley completely. So he killed her.

He knew hurting her crew would hurt Harley, he knew that having them there would be a failsafe because while he will hurt them, she won't.

Which means her suicide mission of blowing herself up and taking him with her wouldn't work. He knew that when he let her upstairs. The second she was in that room he had essentially defused the bomb.

Cause he knew she'd never take the crew down with her purposefully.

And then when he gets what he wants, she puts on that fucking costume, he doesn't just end it there.

No.

No.

He decides "let's try n break her heartstrings for old times sake" and pulls the love bombing shtick once again.

She doesn't fall for it, but pretends she does so she can get in close to stab him.

The Joker: You were always so unoriginal, stealing my ideas!

But

He was fully going to kill her even if she did fall for it.

Even if she was completely on board with his bullshit, with all the horror he'd done in the past few episodes towards her friends. Even if she was happy to overlook all of that cause he said the right thing, he plucked the right strings and had her swooning.

He was going to stab her.

It didn't matter.

He was going to do it again.

The Joker had no reason to try and woo her back in (What He Believed To Be) the final moments of her life.

He did it because he thought it would be funny to see the tears in her eyes as she realized he had hurt her again.

As she realized he had stabbed her in the stomach.

That's why he did it.

He wanted her to love him again because he wanted to kill That Harley. The one who would feel the most pain from this, emotionally and mentally. He wanted to watch That Harley suffer.

Because he thinks it's funny. He finds pleasure in hurting her.

And this was going to be the final time, the last hurrah.

So he wanted to have her go out with a bang. A shot in the heart.

Because The Joker is a cruel, manipulative monster who gets off on seeing her in pain that he knows he caused.

"violence was a hallmark of our relationship too"

The Joker is not remorseful for the trauma or suffering he caused her. And his political stance doesn't mean fucking shit to me. His rushed redemption doesn't mean anything, it doesn't change his actions towards Harley and his complete disregard for the truth of the matter. He's a fuckhead and he deserved to stay dead.

[fractualized]

And the winner is: Joker being turned into a batfam nice guy! I initially thought of this option as the Harley Quinn treatment, until someone pointed out that's basically what happens in the White Knight series. For me, Jack's characterization is a huge impediment to enjoying WK generally, but hey, it's among the closest we've gotten to canon batjokes in comics so you WK fans get the last laugh.

Second place is Joker getting turned permanently into a woman. Some people spoke up and said it would be pretty cool if DC had Joker as a trans woman, and it would! This option was written in the vein of "DC remains incapable of committing to Batman and Joker as two gay men, and therefore 'fix' it by making it straight and implicitly, magically cis." If I were to include DC making Joker trans in a "worst thing DC might do" list, I'd probably say "… and it's written by Frank Miller."

Third place by a small margin is Joker getting a redemption arc with Jason and Barbara that is insanely short and in no way addresses the trauma he wreaked upon them and their families. If the most recent Batman run has taught me anything, it's that this lessons-learned speedrun is more likely to happen than we want to think.

And a special shout-out to the close runners-up. Selina in clown makeup and a wig makes me giggle every time I visualize it, and the storyline being written by Miller gives me an unease that I must force deep into the back of my mind.

Sincere thanks to all 1,356 voters for coming on this journey of horrifying hypotheticals with me and @distort-opia. Never forget: it can always be worse. 💖

(Poll co-produced by @distort-opia.)

[justgottafinishthischapter]

Writing Romance: Villain Love Interests

I should point out from the get-go that this is primarily focused on addressing a romance between a hero and a villain, though villain x villain ships will also be addressed in this discussion. I want to talk about what is needed to make a villain viable as a romantic interest for another character. In this case, I am primarily talking about making a villain worthy of a ship within the actual context of the medium, not just creating a thirst-worthy villain that generates a lot of smutty fanart. If the goal is to turn a villain you’re writing into someone swoon-worthy, we need to determine how this is done.

Firstly, we need to address that not all villains are created equal. Some villains are easier to convert into romantic partners than others. Roughly speaking, there are about 7 archetypes for us to address: Anti-Villains, Comedic Villains, Fallen Heroes, Partners in Crime, Henchmen, Nemeses, and Big Bads. And yes, these dynamics are allowed to overlap. With the obvious exception of the Big Bad, these villainous archetypes might be a major villain, but are rarely the endgame final boss of a story. Typically, they’re ultimately a minor threat to a greater evil, although not always. It should be noted that a big bad is not always the biggest threat in the story, just the most commonly faced one. Dr. Drakken is the Big Bad of Kim Possible and her archnemesis, but Shego is easily Kim’s biggest recurring threat.

THE ANTI-VILLAIN

The Anti-Villain is a character who is on the antagonistic side of a conflict, but is morally and personally a good person. Zuko from Avatar: the Last Airbender is a perfect example of a villainous foil to protagonist Aang. However, the story dedicates just as much time to showing his story and his arc as much as the heroes. The audience is allowed to see his struggles, shortcomings, insecurities, and his growth. That, paired with him becoming a certifiable hottie in Book 3 cemented Zuko as one of the most shipped characters in Avatar. Similar Anti-Villains like Scorpia from She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, Lotor from Voltron: Legendary Defender (until his contradictory and uncharacteristic re-write), and Poison Ivy from Harley Quinn are three villains with sympathetic enough desires and beliefs that the first two end up reforming into good guys by the show’s ending, while Poison Ivy is a villain in name only who keeps insisting she’s not an actual villain. Because the Anti-Villain tends to lack many traditional villainous traits, they have a high chance of redemption, and as such, frequently end up becoming late game teammates to the heroes, which increases their chance of creating romantic or sexual tension with a hero that can actually build into something.

THE COMEDIC VILLAIN

This villain is easily shipable because they’re so incompetent, stupid, relatable, or sympathetic that they’re not really a genuine threat to the heroes regardless of how evil their intentions or motivations. Jessie and James are the most iconic comedic villain ship to date, but other villains like Jack Spicer from Xiaolin Showdown, Ice King from Adventure Time, and Dr. Doofenshmirtz from Phineas and Ferb are all villains so charming, stupid, and inept that fans either actively ship them with someone, or would be okay with them finding a romantic partner in the canon of the series. Despite some of them being legitimate card-carrying villains and darn proud of it, they’re all so hopelessly harmless that their repeated failures endears the audience to how hard they try, yet ultimately fail. Many of these antagonists fall into the trope of the Friendly Enemy, such as Ice King, who can hang out with Finn and Jake to have chili together one week and then next week get into a fight with them because Ice King tried to kidnap a princess without her consent. 

THE FALLEN HERO

The Fallen Hero was once a trusted friend and colleague to the main characters, but has since become a card-carrying villain, betraying everyone and everything they have ever known, usually in pursuit of power or vengeance. I’d say a good 99% of the time, the villain starts as a good guy in the story proper and then gets corrupted by another villain, so the Fallen Hero often ends up a Dragon with their corruptor being the Big Bad as Orocimaru was the Big Bad that corrupted Sasuke... at least at that point in the narrative. But every once in a while, you get a fallen hero villain whose fall the audience doesn’t see, leaving the audience with only the villainous aftermath and their heroic past filled in with backstory or flashbacks. However, the emotions hit much harder if the audience can form a bond with the villain before their Face-Heel Turn. This is by far the most angsty and emotionally impactful villain love interest, as the sense of betrayal and the pain of lovers fighting can have a visceral reaction in the reader or viewer. It’s a large part of why this is also one of the most effective villain love interest types. The characters and the audience already have a strong emotional attachment to the character, and now that they’re a villain, that emotional angst is worked over every time the hero and villain square up.

THE PARTNERS IN CRIME

This is the only ship dynamic that is strictly Villain x Villain. Partners in Crime is when two villains aid each other in their villainous schemes, and no matter how dangerous, evil, or amoral they may be, they love and care for one another. Blowing up a wing of a hospital is hard to find endearing in a villain x hero ship, but blowing up a wing of a hospital because the guy that donated it insulted your S/O? That’s a twisted kind of romantic. This ship dynamic is the epitome of “I would burn the world to the ground just to see the light dancing in your eyes.” A lot of the appeal of this dynamic is the juxtaposition between how they treat the hero(es) or world vs how they treat each other. While the Addams family are not actively villainous in personality or role whatsoever, they often make jokes about decapitation, homicide, Satanism, human sacrifice, gratuitous violence, witchcraft, and torture, which gives them a villainous coat of paint, if only one layer thick. It’s no surprise that Joker x Harley Quinn is the most famous example of this, despite how toxic and abusive their relationship is. While Partners in Crime can be a pair of seriously nasty types, they also have a tendency to be Comedic, such as Jessie and James or Shego and Dr. Drakken, or Anti-Villains like Harley and Poison Ivy in the Harley Quinn adult animated series.

THE HENCHMAN

The Goon, the Dragon, the Partner In Crime, the Henchman is a villain who is little more than a mini-boss, though that has some exceptions. Typically, the Henchman villain will intersect with another type. The outdated stereotype is of the seductive Femme Fatale second-in-command falling inexplicably in love with the male protagonist and aiding him for no real reason other than he’s kinda cute and the hero needs a way out. This has led to the common tendency for the genuinely villainous henchman to be redeemed through love, though if it overlaps with another type, it’ll tend to resolve another way. Shego from Kim Possible is probably the cleanest example. She is a straight up villainous Dragon to Dr. Drakken. Shego and Drakken are also both Comedic Villains and Partners in Crime, helping to endear the audience to Shego’s sarcastic ragging on Dr. D. Terra from Teen Titans is a Fallen Hero with a pre-existing relationship with all of the heroes but especially Beast Boy, and we spent several episodes being endeared to her before her betrayal. Mai and Ty Lee from Avatar: the Last Airbender are this to Azula, with Ty Lee even being shipped with Azula herself. Because Mai and Ty Lee are just henchmen following Azula’s orders, it’s easy for the audience to be more forgiving of their villainous actions, especially since they turned against Azula and stood up to her. They’re more Anti-Villains, simply being citizens of an Evil Empire, with Ty Lee only helping Azula because she was threatened, and Mai because she’s so bored and helping Azula gives her something to do.

THE NEMESIS

The Nemesis is a personal foe to the protagonist. Often overlaps with either a henchman, big bad, or fallen hero variety of villain. Catra from She-Ra and the Princesses of Power is a henchman nemesis to Adora, Slade from Teen Titans is a Big Bad nemesis to Robin, and Sasuke from Naruto is a Fallen Hero nemesis to Naruto. Of these three, the Big Bad Nemesis is the least common romantic choice. Catra and Sasuke get their fair share of shipping fodder, but characters like Slade or the Joker don’t tend to get paired with their hero nemesis very much, at least, not by the canon material. The Nemesis shares a benefit with the Fallen Hero. Being so closely linked to a specific hero drastically increases the sexual and/or romantic tension that plays out every time they fight. While not a canon ship in the show, Kim Possible may refer to Dr. Drakken as her nemesis, but she almost always ends up fighting Shego because Shego is the actual threat between the two of them. As such, Kim and Shego have been shipped together driven primarily by being nemeses. The nemesis tends to be more petty and emotional with the hero. There’s a more personal need to one-up each other and prove themselves superior. The nemesis is also more likely to use the hero’s flaws against them. More than most of the other villain ship dynamics, this one drips with inter-character related angst and drama.

THE BIG BAD

This is the one that only tends to work under a few circumstances. Typically, the Big Bad isn’t a very shippable character because they need to be defeated by the end of the story. So, the romantic Big Bad tends to primarily overlap with either: the Nemesis, the Partners in Crime, or the Fallen Hero. Big Bads that get a romantic subplot often end up being revealed to be the dragon to a bigger and more evil villain, such as with Lord Hordak in She-Ra and the Princesses of Power. However, there is one variant that debunks this: the Big Bad with loved ones. A great example is Kingpin from Marvel comics. He is a villain, he is a legitimate threat, but he has a wife and child. In this context, the love interest of the villain does exist, but is rarely a major focus of the narrative. The villain is often driven or motivated by the grief of losing the people they love, or driven to desperation to be reunited with the people they care about. Honerva from Voltron: Legendary Defender is a very stupid and weak attempt at this, but does apply. When she becomes the end game villain, she is motivated by reconnecting with her family, even if she has to wipe out every other reality in the multiverse to do it. The last variant comes from the Only One Allowed to Kill You trope, where villains form a personal vendetta with the hero, treating their fights like some cosmic clash of ideologies, destined to remain in constant conflict. The Joker and Batman have this sort of relationship, as does Megatron and Optimus Prime. Often, this is more of a villain-sided thing, as heroes are usually surprised when villains save them to invoke this trope. It almost always overlaps with a Nemesis Big Bad, but takes it a step further because the villain is actively invested in their clashing with the hero. It’s more than just a fierce rivalry. All things considered, Big Bad villains with love interests are hard to write, and it’s easy to see why they don’t tend to show up very much.

ALWAYS A BIGGER FISH

While it’s not a strict rule, and people shipping Joker x Harley is clearly proof of this, the majority of the time, the villainous love interest is not the biggest baddest person in town. Catwoman is a small time thief, nowhere near the destructiveness of Joker. While villain love interests often convert to the side of good, that’s not the only reason why they’re typically smaller villains. For a villain to feel like a compelling love interest, they have to have an interesting dynamic with the hero. They have to be likable enough that them ending up with the hero feels like an acceptable outcome. Where they’re a small enough threat that even if their hero/villain dynamic never changes, the villain winning every once in a while isn’t the end of the world, allowing them to reach a nice equilibrium. It’s easier to pull this off with smaller villains because they don’t look as bad as the puppy kickers or world enders. If the final boss fight is between the hero and their villain love interest, it can only end one of two ways: the hero converts the villain to an ally, ending the conflict, or the pair have to fight, running the risk of turning it into a tragedy. Granted, they could be fighting because of an external thing like war, but in this context, the hero can either stop the thing that puts them and their love interest at odds, or talk their love interest into surrendering peacefully. A similar thing sometimes happens where reformed villain love interests aren’t always pushed by the love of a good woman to change. Sometimes, it’s literally jut a bigger more threatening villain comes along, and it arbitrarily puts the villain and hero on the same side, with the possibility for the alliance to end up sticking, as we see with Vegeta and Bulma in the Dragon Ball Franchise. Vegeta starts off as a Big Bad who nukes his own Henchman just to prove how evil he is, then Freeza poses a threat to all of them, and Vegeta slowly goes from Not Technically The Problem Right Now to Unofficial Token Evil Teammate, and eventually simmering down into Grumpy Anti-Hero mode.

THE TROPE IN ACTION: MEGAMIND

The entire premise of the movie is about the villain getting the girl, so what better way to address the dynamics I’ve discussed than with this movie? First things first is classifying Megamind’s villainy. He’s technically A Big Bad, just not THE Big Bad of the movie. He’s a Comedic Villain with his quirky mispronouncing words shtick and the general tone of the movie being a comedy as well. He evolves from a Big Bad to an Anti-Villain to a Reluctant Hero over the course of the film, growing tired of running rampant through the streets, only to find a new purpose in making Roxanne happy. The film also gives Megamind a Bigger Fish villain in the form of Tighten, contrasting the possessive incel mindset of Hal who feels Roxanne owes him her affections because he’s ‘the good guy’ with superpowers, while Megamind actually learns about who Roxanne is, why certain things matter to her, and then sets to fixing the city he wrecked because it’s important to Roxanne, which makes it important to him. Megamind isn’t even actively trying to win her heart. He bonds with her over how Metroman gave them both a sense of hope and purpose, and as he discovers more about Roxanne as a person, he begins to care about her, and funnels his energy into doing things for her sake. He doesn’t even technically take the credit for cleaning up the litter or returning stolen goods. She has no idea that she’s talking to Megamind, so all of these gestures come out of nowhere from her perspective, and Bernard (who Megamind is disguised as) has no connection to these little miracles as far as she’s aware. Because it’s not about proving it or winning brownie points with Roxanne for Megamind. He genuinely cares about her happiness and changes as a result of caring for her. Likewise, he steps up to being a hero because when Roxanne rejects Tighten, he decides to go full supervillain. And with Tighten threatening both the city, and more importantly, the woman Megamind was willing to change for, Megamind goes from trying to recreate his hero/villain relationship with Metroman to stepping up and becoming the good hero that rises up against the villain Tighten, save the day, and get the girl. Sorry to gush so hard. Megamind is just a seriously good movie and an excellent deconstruction and parody of the superhero genre that deserves more praise than it gets.

LOVING TO HATE THEM: CERSEI LANNISTER

Cersei Lannister is a fantastic villain. She’s undeniably evil, powerful, and dangerous, yet the viewer still finds her sympathetic to a certain extent. If you put a knife to my throat and asked me who is the Big Bad of Game of Thrones, I’d tell you it’s Cersei Lannister. She’s on screen moving the plot and serves as the political final challenge, where as The Night King is an external threat engame boss who is only actually seen in a small handful of episodes. Yet despite being a Big Bad, Cersei doesn’t easily land in any other category. You could say she’s a Partner in Crime with fellow Season 1 villain Jaime, but this dynamic doesn’t stick once he loses his swordfighting hand. She’s sort of vaguely an Anti-Villain, except she dies as a petty, jealous, vengeful woman. So, what is she exactly? Cersei is simply put: humanized. Cersei has very few sympathetic traits, but she is a loving mother, and despite her eldest son being a complete bastard, it still hurts to watch her cry in agony over his body because those screams of anguish belong to a grieving mother, not just to a villain whose evil scheme was just foiled. And as her children are taken from her one by one, the slow descent from condescending bitch to tyrannical overlord makes sense as each devastating loss makes her more and more heartless and careless about who she’s hurting. Cersei told Jeoffry in season 1 that their family are the only people in the world that matter, and now she’s alone in a world of people that don’t matter. Expendable extras to be used as pawns in her game of vengenace and petty self-satisfaction. Cersei is not a likeable person, but the failings and shortcomings of her love life are still compelling because of how she’s humanized.

Ultimately, Villain love interests are as numerous and varied as villainous backstories and motivations. What works for one villain doesn’t necessarily work for another. But hopefully, this analytical deep dive will give you the necessary tools to write your own villainous heartthrob. Just remember that there’s a difference between romanticizing villainy, making a villain sexy, and making a villain someone whose love life an audience will root for. The Joker is often romanticized, Aaravos is a nasty boy of the stupid sexy Satan variety, and Megamind is a Big Bad Heel-Face Turn Big Good motivated largely by the love of a good woman.

[giveamadeuschohisownmovie]

Expectations vs. Reality: Anime

Demon Slayer

Expectation: Hardcore horror series about evil monsters

Reality: Really good boy must protect his incredibly cute demon sister with the help of his friends, the whiny blonde guy and the funny animal man who yells all the time. Lots of found family goodness.

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Naruto

Expectation: A coming-of-age series about an outcast who must defy the odds to become the best

Reality: ...so then our main protagonist learns that he's actually the descendant of an alien god, thus making him part alien. Also, he was born to an amazing lineage, which directly contradicts the whole outcast image that the protagonist started off with.

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Dr. Stone

Expectation: Harsh drama about humans rebuilding society

Reality: Hey kids! Welcome to Senku's educational series about how to survive in the wild! Get your notebooks out because today, we're learning how to make gunpowder! Also, how to turn salt water into fresh water!

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Cells at Work

Expectation: Cute educational series about the human body!

Reality: Your body is a nightmare. It's constantly fighting off viruses that can either kill you or hurt you severely. Also, it turns out your body is a dictatorship, killing anything that doesn't comply with its standards. If a cell is out of line or born wrong, it's immediately sent for execution.

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Asobi Asobase

Expectation: Cute, slice-of-life comedy about teenage girls!

Reality: "Hey guys, I dare you to dare me to stick this baseball bat up my butler's ass!" "Hahahaha, I'd love to see that shit!" "NO, DON'T STICK THAT UP MY ASS!"

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The Promised Neverland

Expectation: Orphan kids must expect the orphanage

Reality: Well...you get what you were expecting. But in addition, you develop trust issues and a fear of nuns.

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Black Clover

Expectation: Magic and swords!

Reality: A coming-of-age series about an outcast who must defy the odds to become the best...wait a minute, this sounds familiar...

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Usagi Drop

Expectation: Cute series about a single dad trying to raise his kid!

Reality: The expectation is the same as reality...no, there's no manga here, what are you talking about? Stop talking about a manga, there IS NO MANGA.

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My Hero Academia

Expectation: Superheroes!

Reality: A coming-of-age series about an outcast who must defy the odds to become the best-wait, what? Again with this? Oh come on, there has to be a difference between this and Naruto. (MHA fans whispers in my ear) Oh, so the main villain gets arrested? Well...I guess that's original. The main bad guys in Naruto either die or get redeemed.

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Jormungand

Expectation: Metal Gear Solid, I think?

Reality: Well, it really is Metal Gear Solid, specifically the 4th game. But it's Metal Gear Solid if the main protagonist was a pedophilic Harley Quinn who got fused with Tony Stark.

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RWBY

Expectation: Anime girls saving the world!

Reality: Dark fairy tale drama about the world ending and how the world must be saved by this girl with magic eyes and this guy who is the current reincarnation of an ancient warrior. Also, people are racist towards half-animal people.

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Avatar the Last Airbender

Expectation: Legendary hero must save the world!

Reality: Expectation is the reality. But that being said, people care more about the first season villain's redemption arc.

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The Legend of Korra

Expectation: More Avatar the Last Airbender!

Reality: An in-depth look at a hero battling the ideologies of communism, theocracy, anarchism, and fascism. You can basically call this series, "The Legend of the Centrist".

[batsarebetterthanpeople]

Post redemption arc Joker (Harley Quinn animated series) is everything to me. He’s a dad with a mortgage. I am part of the sane clown posse. Nothing but respect for my socialist king.

[based-bobcat]

I'll go into to much detail for a bit;

Injustice was a pretty fun game with a rather trite story. It was also a successful game. So, because DC is a company that thinks that the moment a character/series on on a screen people will immediately throw all their cash at your local LCS, DC wanted to capitalize on it.

They decided to make a tie-in miniseries/comic. But giving it to an established writer/artist means investing more money than it was worth. So they decide to give the series to the newbiest of newbies; Tom Taylor (I think it's like one of his first works for DC if it's not his actual first)

Now the plot of Injustice is a bit out there; Superman goes evil after haha-man kills Lois. The game's lore establishes a few things like certain characters (Dick Grayson) dying. Tom probably got an outline of 'do whatever lol' and was tasked to write the years between Lois's surprise liposuction and Evil Superman going full Thatcher. With free reign to do whatever the fuck he wanted, with the only rule being that the Game's roster stayed alive, Tom went to work. It was gloriously stupid, rushed, had the worst characterization of Wonder Woman since the dawn of time and rifled with shit art (because it's an online-only tie-in DC cut corners)

Art like that^ and story beats like below

Why yes that is Nightwing being million dollar baby'd thanks to a random stick being thrown by Damian Wayne

Anyway as stupid as it was. It was entertaining. Very entertaining.

It had everything! Evil!Superman meme before it went mainstream so the concept was fresh, Batman as the person who was always right, B and C-Listers getting time to shine, stupid jokes like Riddler refusing to kill an unconscious Batman because he didn't have a good riddle, an actual Harley Quinn redemption arc and it had scenes like Alfred curb stomping Superman. See link

Anyway, arriving at year three of the tie-in comic nobody expected to make it past year 0.5, somebody must've told Tom that Superman is weak to magic, right? So where were the magic users?

Enter John Constantine (and the rest of DC's magical cast but who cares)

You probably know who he is, so I won't bother with the details. All you need to know is that before 2010 John's interaction with the main DC universe was non-existent aside from Zatanna being his ex-girlfriend and John pissing on Phantom Stranger's shoes in a drunken stupor.

DC decided to kill the publishing line that released John's book, so John got rolled into the main DC universe. As a result he got rebooted into being a more comicky hero, something he wasn't even close to being, and now he interacted/went toe-to-toe with superheroes like Superman and Batman, and worst of all; they decided to have people who weren't British write his book. (The only runs of his original series everybody agrees were bad were written by non!brits.) iirc Constantine barely was in the UK in his own fucking series, while his original series is basically UK writes complains about the dark side of the UK using horror as analogy how can you fuck up so hard

All-in-all, pretty rough for Conjob fans

Anyway, Johnny boy was added to the injustice cast and Taylor utilized him pretty well for the setting he was in. He had a huge chip on his shoulder, mocked every cape relentlessly (humor) AND he a good reason for actually doing something. (But he wasn't the flawed, bastard of a man called John Constantine, this was a more light, not morally gray character.)

Too bad that most this was his introduction to a lot of DC fans who barely even heard of him, and he spends half his time hanging out with Batman. So people who haven't read Hellblazer go to Wikipedia to search who he is. Wow he's Bi! Wow! he's a broken emotionally complex man! Wow he is a little rat of a bastard-man! Lets ship him with the Straight-laced Batman! What would happen if this generalized, ironed-out version of this character would adopt Billy Batson or Danny Phantom he fucking wouldn't)

TL;DR. The Injustice comic introduced less than a shell version of John Constantine to the masses and they ate it all up, while his hardened, more assholish, 'real' version got left in the dust.

i'm feeling salty this week