#gffa politics

[duck-in-distress]

The only thint that felt really out of character to me was anakin's reaction (or lack thereof) to Slick's speech in "the Hidden enemy".

Isn’t it weird and by weird I mean hypocritical that the Jedi found value in saving Clones, who were made to be disposable, but they couldn’t be bothered to save Shmi, Anakin’s actual mother?

It depends on what you meant by jedi putting value in saving clones. though it’s true most Jedi would do everything they could to save their men during battles, the ugly truth remains that, as an order, they did very little for the clones. 

The was no attempt to given them citizen status;

“I don’t feel like a Republic citizen, because none of us are, in case you hadn’t noticed. We don’t exist. No vote, no identification docs, no rights.” — Fi (Clone Trooper) in Star Wars - Republic Commando: True Colors by Karen Traviss

“He’s not a citizen. He’s a clone soldier.” “I know. And?” “We have no agreement for long-term care with the Grand Army. In fact, as far as the Republic is concerned this patient doesn’t exist, and as he’s been declared brain-dead by the duty neurosurgical team, we would normally terminate life support, except he’s still breathing, which is highly abnormal.” The droid paused as if to check if Besany was following its train of logic with her inadequate organic brain. “Withdrawal of life support in his case means withdrawal of hydration or feeding, or both.” “Starving him to death, for us lay-beings.” “Indeed. This is clearly ethically undesirable, so euthanasia will be administered.” Besany thought she’d misheard, but she hadn’t. “No,” she said, hearing her voice as if she were standing outside herself. “No, it will not be administered. I’ll get his care authorized. In fact, I’ll get him moved to private care.”Did I hear that right? Do they really put patients down like that? Like sick pets? “He’s Grand Army property, so unless you have a Defense requisition, you can’t take possession of him.” “He’s a human being.” [Star Wars - Republic Commando: True Colors by Karen Traviss]

There was no plans for their future post-war.

“[Darman]’d once asked Etain what would happen to the clone troops when the war was over—when they won. He couldn’t think about losing. Where would they go? How would they be rewarded? She didn’t know. The fact that he didn’t know, either, fed a growing uneasiness.” — Darman (Clone Trooper) and Etain Tur-Mukan (Jedi Knight) in Star Wars - Republic Commando: True Colors by Karen Traviss

There was no freedom (clones weren’t allowed to leave the GAR).

While Vau slept and Ordo piloted the ship, Skirata admired the haul for a while, imagining all the safehouses, escape routes, and new beginnings it could buy for clones who decided they’d completed their service to the Republic. He wasn’t encouraging desertion. He was liberating slaves.”— Kal Skirata in Star Wars - Republic Commando: True Colors by Karen Traviss

There was no respect for dead or injuried clones:

That careful comment meant a great deal in political code if the listener wanted to interpret it. Skeenah seemed to. “Yes, I’ve asked repeatedly about casualties—the medical field units are woefully inadequate, and I can’t find out what happens to those killed in action. To the best of my knowledge, the bodies aren’t recovered. There’s no heroes’ return for these poor men. So if you see large sums allocated to clone welfare, I can assure you there’s no sign of it being used to that end.” Star Wars - Republic Commando: True Colors by Karen Traviss

“You might know, then, what happens to them.” “In what sense?” “When they’re wounded but can’t return to active duty. You see, I can find out what happens on the Rimsoo medical stations—or at least I get some limited answers from the Defense staff—but I’m getting no answers about the men who can’t be patched up and sent back.” […] “I would imagine they die,” Besany said. “The army seems to go to a lot of trouble to send them back.” “Ah, but life isn’t that tidy,” Skeenah said. He lowered his voice, even though the doors were shut. “There’ll be injuries that a man can survive, but that means he’ll never be fit for service again. I can’t seriously believe something like that hasn’t happened in more than a year of this war. And yet there are no homes for these men, who must surely exist, and we know they don’t end up being cared for by family—because they have none. So where do they go?” Besany didn’t even want to think about it, but she had to. The only answer she could think of right then was that the most badly injured who might otherwise have been saved were left to die. But some mobile surgical units had Jedi advisers. No Jedi would let such a thing happen … would they? 

They were property, bought like livestock and no jedi ever questioned it.

“He wanted to ask her why only a handful of Jedi objected to a slave army, and why they could claim to believe in the sanctity of all life and yet treat some life as being exempt from that respect.” — Star Wars - Republic Commando: True Colors by Karen Traviss

“‘Explain something to me, littl’un,’ Rex said. Maybe he could have asked Skywalker this same question, but something told him it was a bad idea. ‘What’s the difference between Jedi who fall to the dark side, and do whatever it is that dark siders do, and Jedi who just let bad things happen on their watch?’ He really wanted to know.” — Rex and Ahsoka | The Clone Wars: No Prisoners by Karen Traviss

Considering how clones were treated it makes sense there was no attempt to free the slaves on Tatooine. And it’s not just about Shmi. There were numerous CHILD SLAVES on the planet and the only child they ever tried to rescue was the son of the guy enslaving them.

The Jedi Order was focused on the bigger picture, they can look away if it might work in favor of the greater good. and that’s the exact mentality Palpatine used against them.

[this-acuteneurosis]

So Im all here for the Pretty Ladies who dress nicely doing all the politics, wonderful court intrigue right here, are we gonna talk about in the back ground the majority known Male characters are in War killing dying thing? this story IS about the back room deals and others as main setting, (although we should tease you about dodging the wars in Star Wars sometimes just as a little poke.) curious cause the 4 main Male politco 2 are enemies in Rush and Palps. Kamino had a fem evil Senator! use??

Who wants to talk about ✨🌈Palpatine🌈✨!

There haven't been a lot of opportunities to talk about the structure and the influence of our main villain textually in the story, because Leia is kinda blind to her own bias, and also a lot of stuff that I have as part of his character just...doesn't come up.

So, keep two things in mind as I talk about DLB Chancellor Sheev Palpatine and pull back the curtain just a little.

His character is coming pretty exclusively from the OT and PT movies (with minor exceptions).

I'm taking advantage of a lot of silences and time period circumstances to draw conclusions about his character, so don't be surprised if I say something that isn't said out loud at some point.

Ready? Let's go!!

The OT features an overabundance of male humans in positions of power in Palpatine's government. This may have been balanced out slightly by novels that I haven't read or newer shows that I haven't watched, but the people Palps promoted to his special seats of power (Moffs, military leaders) are overwhelming human men. If we stretch canon to include the two Clone Wars cartoon series, the only women brought into Palpatine's plots are brought in by Dooku or other associates, not Palpatine himself. Of the three apprentices Palpatine has, two are human and one is humanoid.

I don't think I'm breaking anyone's brain to assert that Palpatine is sexist and racist. I know I'm not the first person to suggest or write this sort of character.

What I'm going to assert, beyond those points, is that Palpatine is only really impressed with himself, and assumes that anyone lacking qualities that he has is progressively less useful and important than him. So he's also, for lack of a better word, Force-ist.

(Ugh, nope. I still don't like it, but I don't have anything else.)

Palpatine absolutely has loyalists and panderers that are women. But as far as DLB is concerned, he's not promoting them, searching them out, or impressed by them. So women are going to be antagonists in this story more incidentally. On a small scale. Major antagonists are going to end up frequently being male and human. And I'm not going to try and change that.

Only tangentially related, but a little important because Leia comes into the Senate through Padmé's office, because of the prejudices listed above, I will pretty much die on the hill that Palpatine loathes Padmé. And he really loathes that he loathes her. That he has to have any feelings about her at all.

She's young. She's a girl. She isn't Force sensitive. He plucked her out and carefully curated her early political experience and was probably violently influential in her success in getting elected the first time. He had a tiny, fragile, 14 year old stumbling under the weight of the crown, ready to start his civil war and initiate the end of the Republic. She gets him elected. His plan is flawless.

Until it turns out that she has a spine, and humility. She has the courage to face danger and the grace to bow to another sovereign power. She trusts Jar Jar Binks when he suggests that the gungans have an army. Like this is somehow a viable plan for taking back her people, when Jar Jar isn't even slightly popular or powerful.

And she wins. Palpatine loses Maul, he loses Naboo, and he loses the opportunity to start a war. She sets him back a solid decade, at 14. On a hope and a the thinnest apology.

DLB isn't so much about creating a perfectly equitable Star Wars universe. I'm not equipped for that, and it wasn't the goal. This story is about a bunch of ladies doing politics and kicking Palpatine's plans to the curb because he was always vulnerable to the people he dismissed the most.

Palpatine's plans had the Jedi and the Senate in a steel trap of lose-lose situations. But he loses, over and over, to kindness, compassion, forgiveness, and diplomacy. He's stymied by it. He literally can't plan for it. I've had all sorts of fun having Leia and Padmé do "mother-daughter" politics together, but I love that in RotJ Luke Skywalker looked the Emperor dead in the eyes and said, "No. No you can't make me do this." Like his mother would have. It had to drive Palpatine completely nuts. And it worked.

Anyway, all that to say, there's a lot of story left, and I'm not going to give away all of Palpatine's plans and plots. But part of how Leia got this far without any resistance was that Palpatine saw a short, unconnected woman from the outer rim, had no idea she could use the Force, and went, "Not important."

And he was very, very, very wrong. :D

[asocial-skye]

I'm going to be a heretic and say that the Jedi's problem wasn't that they were involved the Senate, it was that they weren't involved enough in the Senate. The Jedi should have moved out to the Unknown Regions if they didn't want to deal with the responsibilities of the Republic. They should have involved in politics by voting for leaders, running for election and utilizing their representation to push for their interests and agenda.

"but they didn't want to be involved-" look here people, you do not choose to get involved in politics. Politics involves everyone; you have a choice to play or not play. There is no option to opt out. By not playing, you forfeit the game to your opponents, and you lose before you begin.

That's how Palpatine wins. He sets the game, and the Jedi forfeit; they were doomed to lose from the start.

[tennessoui]

whyyyyyy did i read that as “master mace” at first. why did i then immediately think of a scenario where anakin’s talking with a few council members and he casually refers to “master mace” and obi-wan is immediately thrown back to that morning when obi violently fucked him on the kitchen counter after anakin kept teasing him by calling him his “mastermate” and riling up his protective instincts. the flush is bc it’s hot in here my fellow masters. no other reason.

(in response to anakin calling obi-wan master-mate in the gffa werewolf au)

lol love ok but with their bond, anakin can probably feel what obi-wan is thinking about/feeling, and so he’s also red in the face all of a sudden and at least obi-wan can change into a big hulking wolf and flip down on the floor to cover his embarrassment but now anakin will have to sit through the mortification of remembering all the dirty sex his master mate has had with him over the last 24 hours, while the council is like ? Anakin? Knight Skywalker? Are you feeling alright?

[bolithesenate]

not good very bad i am reading a text for one of my historical seminars and i keep getting distracted over how i could apply the things the author is talking about in fic (specifically my tarre backstory that i am... planning)

[nimata-beroya]

Note: Since my old masterlist is getting notes again (and I'm hosting @tbb-appreciation-week this year), I thought it's a good time to release a new version with a lot more resources. If any of you know another site or thing that it's missing from the list, let me know and I'll include it!! [Altho, I'm getting this close 🤏 to the hyperlinks limit on this thing 😆]

Note 2: To avoid tagging the 3 people from whom I got multiple resources repeatedly, I've placed 1-3 asterisks between square brackets after the links, depending on the OP. I give the respective credit to them in a legend at the end of the post.

PLACES / TIME

Interactive Galaxy Map by Henry Bernberg

Map of the Galaxy

List of planets and moons [Wikipedia /needs expanding]

Planet Name Generator 1 [SciFi Ideas]

Planetary System Generator [Donjon]

Tatooine Location References [*]

Various locations Cross-Sections (Jedi Temple, Palp's office, Tipoca City & more) [**]

Republic - Separatist - Hutt space during the Clone Wars

Hyperspace Travel Times (to calculate how much time would take to go from point A to point B within the GFFA)

Standard Calendar and Holidays [including month names!]

Galactic Standard Calendar [wookiepedia // including week day names]

Date converter according to SWTOR [Google sheet]

Dated Star Wars Chronological Order (Movies + live-action shows + animation)

TCW Chronological Timeline by @mauvrix

Estimated date for: shared by @spectres-fulcrum

Partisans' attack on Onderon

Siege of Lasan

CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT

General

Star Wars Name Generator 1 [Donjon]

Star Wars OC flow chart by @thefoodwiththedood

Star Wars Name Generator 2 [FantasyNames]

Star Wars Name Generator 3 [FantasyNames]

MetaHuman [Unreal Engine]

The character creator

Droid Name Generator

Star Wars Randomizer by @aureutr

Character Picrew [Twi-leks, Zabraks, Torgutas and Nautolans] @/megaramikaeli

Jedi

Taking a Closer Look at the Jedi Order in Star Wars Canon [Meta/Reference Guide] [**]

Jedi Order Structure Flowchart by @rileys-nest

Mandalorians

Mandalorian Armor design by MandoCreator

Keepers of the Way (Mandalorian Lore) [*]

Clones

Complete List Of Named Clone Troopers shared by @propheticfire (Organized by Unit)

Clone Creator [MandoCreator]

Clone Picrew

Star Wars Character Templates by SmacksArt [the ULTIMATE battery of template for any human/humanoid original character in any era. From troopers to droids, from Jedi to Sith, from KOTOR to the sequel Trilogy. 100% RECOMMENDED]

Basic Guide to Clone Trooper Armour by @odekiisu

GAR structure summary by @intermundia

The Clone Wars Republic Military Hierarchy Flowcharts [***]

Clone Trooper Lore [*] [Ranks, Culture, Training, Organization, etc.]

Clones and Kamino [*]

The Bad Batch Characters Concept Art shared by @shadowthestoryteller

MISCELLANEOUS

Star Wars Character Age Comparison Chart by @the-yearning-astronaut

Tusken Raiders lore by @snarwor

Materials (fabrics, leathers, silks, plastics, construction, metal composites, etc.)

Materials in Star Wars by marvel_dc_heart_throbs

Star Wars Fashion [*]

Leisure, Art, Musical Instruments, Ethnography [*]

Political and Criminal Organizations in the GFFA [**]

Financial reference about credits by @thecoffeelorian

List of TCW Opening Quotes

Transcripts of all the TCW episodes shared by @book-of-baba-fett

Star Wars Crawl Creator [not exactly writing-related, but just for fun]

HEALTH AND MEDICINE

Canon Medical Lore [*]

Real World reference for Field organizational structure for corpsman (medics) [*]

Kaliida Shoals Medical Center (Republic Haven-class medical station) shared by @clonewarsarchives

GAR Battalion Aid Station [*]

GAR Clone Medic Q/A [*]

More combat medicine, shipboard medicine, veteran issues, and military culture [*]

SHIPS AND VEHICLES

Ship Generator 3D

Ship Name Generator

All Terrain Tactical Enforcer (AT-TE) shared by @stairset

Republic Vessels Reference [*]

Low Altitude Assault Transport/Infantry (LAAT/i) [*]

List of GAR Flagships in the Clone Wars by @meandmyechoes

Layout of the Havoc Marauder

Dimensions of various ships from the Clone Wars [**]

FOOD AND DRINKS

Star Wars Menu Generator

In-Universe Alcoholic beverages

Canon Cocktails (recipes) [*]

Another In-Universe Drinks list shared by @systemic-dreams

Teas in Star Wars by marvel_dc_heart_throbs

Foodstuff [*]

Canon Star Wars Holiday Recipes [*]

Trask Chowder Recipe (from The Mandalorian) [*]

LANGUAGES; PHRASES AND SLANG; VOCABULARY

Languages of the Galaxy [*]

Script of different languages in the GFFA by @lucif-hare-blog

In-Universe phrases and slang [Google sheet]

List of phrases and slang [wookiepedia]

List of equivalents to real-world objects [wookiepidia]

Talk Like a Clone Trooper shared by @archeo-starwars

Aurebesh Translator [Aurebesh.org]

Learning Aurebesh Tools [Aurebesh.org] Reading - Writing.

Mando'a Database [Mando.org]

Mando'a Transcripticon [MandoCreator] (Create your own text in the Mando'a script.)

@project-shereshoy (Blog that collects and posts sources for Mando'a from all over the internet.)

Mando’a Categorized Spreadsheet

Learning Mando'a Tools [MandoCreator] Reading - Writing.

Setting Thesaurus Entry: Spaceport [Writers helping writers]

Fan-created Conlangs

@dai-bendu-conlang (Jedi Culture Explored) (This blog is the home of the Dai Bendu Conlang, invented by the Archive of Our Own Users aroacejoot, @ghostwriterofthemachine, and loosingletters for the Jedi Order in Star Wars.)

Lasana Lexicon by Anath_Tsurugi (fandom lexicon of the Lasat Language)

HELPFUL BLOGS & SITES

The amazing @fox-trot, who not only makes astonishing art and write an amazing fic, she also responds to medical questions and gives all kinds of references for writing medic characters. Check her #medicposting tag and you'll find tons of information. Also check #star wars reference and her art tag while you're at it.

@writebetterstarwars, which seems to be inactive, but there are a bunch of references there.

@howtofightwrite The place to find out how to write a good fight scene.

@scriptmedic no longer active, but it has a great deal of useful information.

@scripttorture for your whump needs. Major trigger warning for all its content.

@sw-anthrobiology A blog dedicated to collecting headcanons about the biology and cultures of Star Wars species.

@archeo-starwars In-universe sources on culture and history.

@clonewarsarchives Resources & Concept Art Blog for The Clone Wars animated series.

Wookiepedia If you don't find something in here, it's probably because it doesn't exist, neither as a canon nor legends reference.

Star Wars Databank: The official Star Wars website's reference guide. All canon.

WRITING IN GENERAL (For those who don't want to die like Stormtroopers)

SlickWrite: Completely free; online. Checks grammar, punctuation, flow, and writing style according to different settings (including fiction writing).

ProWritingAid: [RECOMMENDED] One of the most thorough online proofreader I've ever used. Although when using a free account gives extremely thorough feedback, with +20 different in-depth reports, for only the first 500 words. However, you can earn a premium account license (for a year or for life) if you get 10 or 20 new users signing up for free; (if you wouldn't mind doing so using the link above and help me earn mine, please). The settings allow you to check your writing according to your needs, from general to formal to creative. It has a bonus that you can check depending on the genre you're writing. For example, in creative, you can choose romance or sci-fiction (there are 14 sub-genre in total). And just like google docs, you can share a document, and people can view, comment or edit it too.

LanguageTool: [RECOMMENDED] Another excellent proofreader. It also has a word limit in free accounts, but if you use the add-on for Google Docs, it counts each page as a new document, so hitting the word limit is nearly impossible. It helps you to rewrite a sentence (3 a day), even if it doesn't raise any flags; it's very useful for when your sentence is grammatically correct, but it doesn't feel quite right.

Grammarly, Hemingway Editor: No so great, but they do the basic job.

Legend

[*] Shared by @fox-trot [**] Shared by @gffa [***] Shared by @cacodaemonia.

[phoenixyfriend]

Something something Dooku survives the Clone Wars, the Imperial Era, and even a few years past the OT...

And Luke finds him while looking for More Jedi to help him teach.

Chewie recognizes the decrepit old bastard, and there is yelling, but being A Hundred And Nine has mellowed Dooku out in his own dusty hermit hut, on the other side of the galaxy from Ben and Yoda's hermit huts.

All the Jedi ghosts are unhappy with this but Dooku is… not REFORMED, technically, but he's old and tired, even if the Force keeps him a bit more healthy and energized than the average Old Guy, and humans routinely live to pretty unreal old ages in the gffa anyway so really 109 for them is probably like 85 for us.

But yeah. Old mountain hermit (to contrast the desert and the swamp) who's been in hiding from That Dick Sidious since he lost both hands to babyface Vader in 19BBY.

@jebiknights (Sammie) said:

Dooku finds out Luke was also trained by Yoda and is like "oh Yoda finally gave me a younger brother like I always wanted"

Alternately he could probably get Luke to call him Great-Great-Grandfather.

Sammie: Funniest option is he's both which makes Luke even more confused lmao Ghost Obi wan in the background like "stop fucking using non Jedi terms to describe Jedi relationships it doesn't fucking work"

Luke calls him, irreverently, Gramps, but also. Leia definitely recognizes him as a Recent Historic Political Figure, but not until AFTER Luke has already integrated Dooku into his new Jedi school.

"Why did Chewie let him do that?" He thought it was funny. (And/or if you like Chewku, you can make this some sordid exes thing.)

"Why did R2 let him do that?" Best keep evil man in electrical prodding range.

Sammie: Leia comes to the school for her biweekly Jedi lessons and sees the newest teacher was a traitor to the Republic 😭

Best if they can find Quin or Ventress out in the black. Partly because like. Does this make Ventress their step-grandma (Quinlan's on-off something) or their great-great-aunt (Dooku's 4th apprentice)?

Sammie: Both and also Luke's niece. Luke has a migraine by the end of it and Leia is ready to disown herself. Ventress: I didn't realize the Jedi were so incestuous Luke: war flashbacks to before he realized Leia was his sister

Ahsoka in the corner with Spacebucks, five years late "Y'all suck. Hey, Quin."

Sammie: I know you likely didn't bring up Quinlan thinking of QuinObi but now I'm imagining Quinlan declaring himself their grandpa when he meets the twins bc 1) he loves to cause chaos 2) he does/did consider Anakin his kid even if not in neat non Jedi terms and 3) Obi-Wan thought being considered Anakin's father made him sound old, and Quinlan needs to harass him beyond the grave

Dooku must have a cane that the ghosts heckle him about because He Clearly Wants To Be Just Like Yoda.

@lyntergalactic (Lyn) said:

I feel like evil gramps could really bring out Ahsoka's snark once she shows up and that would be highly entertaining Ahsoka is simultaneously his most and least favorite grandchild

She's the most experienced as a Jedi (Ventress went full Sith, not just leaving the Order but following the tenets like Ahsoka, and Quinlan isn't in the lineage), has never Fallen unless you count that thing on Mortis.

Also she WILL bitch Dooku out at this age, and honestly he kind of appreciates the brutal honesty.

Ahsoka: I'm not a Jedi. All the old people: Lies

She brings up the Hondo incident since nobody else is putting in the effort. Anakin and Obi-Wan COULD as ghosts but nooooooo she has to do everything around here.

Sammie: Oh but it sets them off so hard they can barely get the story off from laughing NGL I think the twins did not understand how truly annoying Obi-Wan and Anakin could be together until the Hondo story gets told.

They are The Worst.

[caripr94]

And as evil as it is, even the Empire isn't totally wrong about the Republic being corrupt and the GFFA needing a better system.

And many people like @gch1995, @redrikki, @padawanlost, and @wingletblackbird have written extensive and thorough metas about how Anakin actually did deserve to be a Jedi Master by ROTS, how the Jedi Order was a cult, and how his Fall was partially their fault.

@allronix

@marvelstars

So after seeing some more rancid takes + after seeing the results of my previous poll, I need to ask:

[rochenn]

girl help the obi-wan character study is turning into a political thriller

[david-talks-sw]

Hello. You and GFFA are probably the two most reliable blogs I know when it comes to what GL actually intended with star wars and also have the most on point finger on the pulse of fandom and such without letting the discourse get to you. So I just have to ask. Where does the idea of the jedi being space cops come from in canon? Especially in more left leaning circles. Haven't they seen that there are indeed actual cops in SW? And who are portrayed like how leftists view cops?

Hey there!

Firstly, it's always an honor when someone puts me and Lumi in the same sentence 😃 been a while since I reminded people, but my blog started because I read hers (and a few others) and I was like "oh shit she makes great points!" and started doing the research on my own.

I mostly attribute my rediscovering my childhood love for the Jedi to her early meta posts. Like, you think I'm good, wait til she gets started again! So thank you, for that!

Onto the subject itself: I've seen the notion pop up in all circles. And it's not exactly wrong, it's just not entirely accurate.

You can find a large collection of George Lucas quotes here, about the Jedi's place in the Republic.

You will see that he uses varying terminology and that's what I think partially muddies the waters.

For example, early on, Lucas describes them as "police officers", but years later he says "they're not cops, they're Marshalls of the Old West" but actually "they're mafia dons" or "intergalactic therapists."

But the one that explains it best, for me, is the following:

"They're not like [the kind of] cops who catch murderers. They're warrior-monks who keep peace in the universe without resorting to violence. The Trade Federation is in dispute with Naboo, so the Jedi are ambassadors who talk both sides and convince them to resolve their differences and not go to war. If they do have to use violence, they will, but they are diplomats at the highest level. They've got the power to send the whole force of the Republic, which is 100,000 systems, so if you don't behave they can bring you up in front of the Senate. They'll cut you off at the knees, politically. They're like peace officers. As the situation develops in the Clone Wars they are recruited into the army, and they become generals. They're not generals. They don't kill people. They don't fight. They're supposed to be ambassadors." - The Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005, 2020

Bottom line: yes, they're authority figures. But they're not "beat cops" chasing after robbers and criminals.

They're, first and foremost, ambassadors/negotiators/diplomats. They're police for planets and their governments, not the people of the Republic. Again:

They're peace officers.

Now, they can investigate and take more active "police-like" roles during their mandate, but they're not gonna be called upon to investigate a murder (unless that murder is very strange and local authorities are unable to make sense of it).

It's why, when Anakin is talking about "we'll search for the killer, Padmé" Obi-Wan is like "uuuuh... no we won't?"

[raleighrador]

Jedi recruitment - ontological necessity or political pragmatism?

The fact that Jedi almost exclusively recruit pre verbal children is easily one of the most controversial aspects of the Order, in universe and amongst fans.

The debate broadly centres on why they do it and what the results (for individuals and at a systemic level) are. I would argue, based on what we see in material both pre and post the Disney acquisition, that this practice is not strictly necessary and is at least as much a successful political tool that benefits the Jedi as it is anything else.

So, why do the Jedi do it (according to them/their supporters)? There are basically 2 arguments that are made: i) untrained force sensitives are dangerous to themselves & those around them and ii) The Jedi order are the only appropriate institution to train them (both practically and philosophically).

On the first - this just isn't at all clear, and the Jedi's behaviour is further evidence that this is far less of a problem than they like to imply.

So far as we know the most natively powerful force connections in the Star Wars universe are Anakin Skywalker, Luke Skywalker, Leia Organa, Rey Palpatine/Skywalker. People like Ben Solo/Kylo Renn, Mae and Osha Aniseya, Yoda, Sheev Palpatine all plausibly fit in to some kind of top 10. Anakin is probably/definitely at the top and the rest all fit in behind him.

Anakin, Luke, Leia, Rey, Ben, Osha all started training ranging from later than the Jedi ideal through to when they were full grown adults. All became powerful and dangerous (in the way that all people with super powers are), 3 of them fell to the dark side with dire consequences and 3 didn't. That is probably an argument in favour of Jedi style training if not recruitment, because their method seems to have significantly higher success rates (though not a perfect one).

It is also the wrong frame of reference. Far more interesting & insightful are all the children the Jedi DON'T recruit. There are basically 2 drivers behind these un-recruited Force sensitive children: Jedi only take children with the parents' consent & the Jedi only have jurisdiction inside the Republic.

I personally am very dubious of the claim that every child who was ever recruited by the Jedi was done so with the parents consent. For this argument I am willing to assume it is true.

Why do the Jedi only take kids with parental consent? If untrained force sensitives are so dangerous surely they should be taking all children regardless? This introduces 2 points of tension: either the Jedi don't always respect consent or they do, and the reason they do is because it isn't actually as strictly necessary to take these kids as they like to imply.

The fact that they only operate within the borders of the Republic is a second proof point. The Republic is the largest but not the only geopolitical body in the GFFA. You have Hutt space, Wild Space, the Unknown Regions, Hapes Cluster etc. If untrained force sensitives really were such a great threat that only the Jedi can handle them a) it is a very dubiously defensible for the Jedi to say "ah shucks the border is here" b) it would suggest that the other political entities would have at least some sort of co-operative agreement with the Jedi and c) you would presumably see dozens of rogue force users operating in these non-Republic spaces with grave consequences.

You don't.

I get that Force sensitives are rare but they are sufficiently common that the Jedi Order has pretty clear and constantly renewed generations. You don't ever see only a single youngling, there aren't years or decades where there are no padawans because the seekers haven't found anyone for 20 years.

So presumably - like Anakin and Rey and Mae and Osha - force sensitives are being born pretty frequently outside the Republic. They by definition aren't being found and raised by the Jedi. Yet we don't see any especially dire consequences of this.

It therefore doesn't seem at all clear that it is a necessity for the Jedi to take these children - and the Jedi's own behaviour reinforces that conclusion.

The second claim is that the Jedi - and only the Jedi - can appropriately train these children. I think there are 2 elements to "appropriately train": the first is mechanical ie the Jedi a actually know how the force works and can teach you to move rocks or whatever and the second is a question of values or philosophy ie the Jedi teach you selflessness.

Notably, the Jedi actually blend these 2. They explicitly discuss "right" and "wrong" ways to achieve the same outcome. You can find your calm centre and channel the Force dispassionately to lift a rock, you can also tap into your emotions to do so. These achieve the same output with - seemingly - the same mechanic but the Jedi consider the latter pathway dangerous and inappropriate.

On the purely mechanical - they are clearly not the only people who can teach this. We know about smaller "legitimate" Force cults (like the Guardians of the Hills, Fallanassi, Sorcers of Tund, Yacombe - notably for seeking balance between light and dark in their own practice) as well as "illegitimate" cults like the Night Sisters (it is not clear to me if the Dathomiri Night Sisters and the Brendok Coven are factions of a single group or distinct) and the Sith. They were all able to manipulate and use the Force. They were all capable of teaching these abilities to others. The nature of their abilities were not perfectly consistent - different cults could do different things, including things that members of other cults would not even recognise.

Not only were there other people out there who could use the Force and teach others to do so, they were also teaching and using techniques the Jedi didn't know or understand. So the Jedi clearly were not the only people capable of this instruction.

What they did have was an effective monopoly on legitimate instruction. All the other cults mentioned were either literally illegal (Sith), totally unofficial and unrecognised and suffered some degree of official persecution (Night Sisters), or were significantly smaller and more localised than the Jedi. None enjoyed "official" status or the backing of the largest government in the GFFA like the Jedi.

On the question of values or philosophy it is clear that the Jedi don't have a monopoly on selflessness or being a good person. Nor is it evident that the very specific Jedi interpretation of "goodness" is the only tool (or even a necessary tool) to prevent Force users from becoming dangerous.

The evidence for this is the fact that with the exception of the Sith, none of the above cults seem to ever have posed some kind of meaningful or sustained threat to peace or stability in the GFFA. There have been individual members who have done bad, even monstrous things, but there is nothing inherent in their philosophy that makes them or their use of the Force dangerous.

Equally, it is worth coming back to the prior point that the Jedi have - throughout history - been the single most common source of Sith. In fact they seem to be the only one of these cults that has any record of inadvertently being a source for future Sith. That is to say - all Sith seem to either be raised from "birth"/only ever been trained by other Sith (like Maul, or Palpatine) or to be former Jedi.

So we are now in a place where i) untrained Force sensitives don't actually pose some kind of existential threat ii) the Jedi are not the only people capable of providing technical instruction in using the Force and iii) there is nothing particular about Jedi teachings that makes them especially resistant to the dark side in general and Sith in particular. If anything, they seem more likely to inadvertently produce future Sith than the other cults.

A small diversion to explore what it is the Jedi seek to teach and how: Attachment is bad.

I would argue the Jedi restrictions on emotion are significantly more extensive than that. It is functionally all forms of love or affection that they are opposed to or at least very disapproving of. Equally they don't seem to have much room for other emotions. Certainly not anger but not even grief or sadness. These latter 2 are in many ways the most illustrative - there is Yoda's advice that Anakin rejoice for those who transform into the Force; and in the Acolyte we got Jecki's "It's always an honour to witness anything or anyone transform into the Force".

That is bizarre as hell. Always? It is always an honour? This is the instinctive rote response to "I feel very bad for getting that animal killed"?

I am not saying that Yoda and Jecki and the Jedi teachings are completely wrong. I am saying that they don't sound like they make room for the full gamut of emotions. They don't teach "feel sad, own it, acknowledge it, process it, and let it go". They teach "don't be sad".

That is not a very helpful philosophy. It just doesn't engage with the reality that emotions are totally natural and largely unavoidable functions of human (and presumably in GFFA other sapient) physiology.

It presumably has more to it than I am acknowledging but either way it doesn't seem especially compelling. Why can't this be taught (consistently successfully) to adults? I would have reservations about ANY philosophy that openly explained that it basically only works on children who have no competing frame of reference or adults who have lost all their friends and family. That is deeply suspicious.

Even if it isn't the philosophy itself per se it says nothing good about the pedagogical methods of the Jedi.

The other consideration here is that the sensible bits of the philosophy are pretty shallow - and not at all unique to the Jedi. Especially in fandom when basically any "bad decision" by a Jedi or other Force user is explained by "oh ho they're thinking with their emotions and attachments" while "good decisions" are "Jedi-like" and must come from a place of detachment.

2 examples - Shmi's decision to let Anakin go with the Jedi is often described as "Jedi like" and demonstrates a lack of selfish attachment that Anakin would have done well to emulate. This is nonsensical for a number of reasons, not least of which being that Shmi had literally zero agency in this situation. She isn't make a real, informed choice either way. More than that, the alternative is "my child stays a slave'. Many parents all over the world (and presumably the GFFA) make sacrifices for the good of their children all the time. So these relationships clearly don't preclude someone being selfless or "unattached" as the Jedi define. Yet it remains the most commonly prohibited relationship by the Jedi. It is explicitly the one relationship they are guaranteed to prohibit for every one of their members. Mother Aniseya in the Acolyte is another example - I think her decision making around Osha is bonkers. However it is held up as selfless and unattached that it is her who chooses to let Osha go with the Jedi, and everyone else who ruins it by being attached. What is missed though is WHY she makes that decision. "I choose Mother". It is expressly in choosing to prioritise her familial relationship with Osha over her political one with the Coven that she "let's go" of Osha.

So not only do you not need to be a Jedi to make these sorts of decisions and learn these lessons, you definitely don't need to be isolated from familial relationships.

I would argue an even more interesting example from the Acolyte is Mae. In the season finale she is the only one who comes at all close to some kind of "Jedi like" decisions. She doesn't want revenge, she wants Sol to confess his crimes and face systemic justice. This from a girl whose life was ruined by the Jedi and then at some point she got found and trained by the "Sith" (I am not sold Qimir is a de jure Sith but I digress).

She was almost as far from a Jedi as possible but still came to the "Jedi like" decision. There are also lots of people with less extreme background who do the same.

So what gives? What is so special about Jedi training? I would suggest that from the perspective of teaching people the technical skills to use the force and the values to not abuse it... not much.

Certainly not enough to warrant a state backed effective monopoly that empowers you to test any child you wish and take the vast majority of them.

Even if you accept that the Jedi (and other Force cults) are right that only the Light Side can be safely used, the Jedi are not the only people who believe or teach that. So why do they deserve to be the only ones allowed to (en masse) recruit and train children?

So why then do the Jedi do it and why do the Republic allow them to do it? To me it seems much more about maintaining a monopoly on legitimate violence and use of the Force.

What taking children in early and separating them from their family, denying them any material possessions outside of their role in the Order, does is ensure they are loyal to you and don't have any other options.

The extent to which people are free to leave - formally and practically - seems very limited. In the thousands of years of the Order's written records, only 20 Masters have left. Even if we assume (eg per the Acolyte and TCW) that more non-masters have left, it remains a very small number. The practical limitations seem most pertinent - as per Osha, as well as our own observations - being raised a Jedi just doesn't prepare you to do anything except be a Jedi. Add that to the lack of network or resources outside the Order (as well as eg material threats of slavery because people want access to Force sensitives), and it becomes very difficult to leave willingly.

@redrikki has written compelling on this but the Jedi are demonstrably a cult. A significant element of that is the concentration of political, material, and in Star Wars metaphysical power.

Specifically recruiting and isolating and raising children serves the Jedi's aims of i) ensuring their ongoing hegemony and ii) is a mechanism for preventing or suppressing conflict. You simply diminish the number of people who can actually enter into conflict with you because you do your best to ensure they're all working for you. This is plausibly at least partially noble - you head off any conflicts that might require your intervention.

That nobility is thinned by the earlier discussion because it begs the question of what kind of conflict are the Jedi preventing (or gearing up to fight)?

Let us be clear - the Sith are a toxic, destructive ideology that should be opposed. Their philosophy is self-serving and violent. They are quite literal evil.

I just don't think their existence justified the children taking and isolating as many children as they can. This is especially true in the 1000 years leading up to the Prequels. As far as the Jedi believed, there were no Sith. So not even the Jedi were using the Sith - and any conflict with them, which I would say is a justified conflict - as the justification for the policy.

What kind of conflicts were they therefore seeking to prevent? I would suggest they were attempting to avoid any conflict over resources or support or legitimacy with other smaller Force cults. Even worse, I think they were avoiding a scenario where it became plausible to argue that the Jedi weren't necessary at all.

In a world where the Jedi are not actively recruiting children I would imagine 2 things happen: other Force cults become larger and more prominent, sufficiently large to start exerting political influence. This is not necessarily counter to the Jedi or a threat but it is also not necessary aligned with the Jedi. Even if not malicious, it would be a different set of priorities and a different set of philosophies that the Jedi (and the Republic writ large) would need to engage with.

These cults are different to each other and the Jedi. They by definition do not agree on all/some of the mechanics of the Force, the values and philosophies that govern it, its appropriate use, and the role of Force sensitives in the Galaxy. If they were perfectly aligned they wouldn't be distinct cults. These different groups operating in the galaxy, recruiting, preaching, proselytising pose a necessary risk (or at least complication) to the Jedi's role.

At minimum it likely results in someone somewhere asking "what is up with all these cults? Are they all Jedi? Do they all get the same rights and privileges?" and this opens up a series of conversations as to which groups get what and why. In a broadly pluralist context, as the Republic seems to be, it isn't clear to me that you could neatly draw that out in a way that is clear and practicable to the Senate.

If they do start actively behaving or advocating in ways that are counter to the Jedi's interests, it is unclear how the Jedi could respond. Let's assume the Jedi have the best interest of the Republic at heart. Let's assume the other groups do too (or at least are willing to say they are, even if self-serving). How would these disagreements get resolved in a way that is systemically defensible and legitimate in the eyes of the galaxy? "The Force says so" is not really an option when both parties can legitimately use it.

It is far simpler for the Jedi to just head this off by ensuring these other cults remain small, or at least the Jedi remain significantly larger and more wide spread.

The other thing that happens if the Jedi don't have a near monopoly on force sensitive kids, is many of these kids grow up... basically fine. Sure they're lucky and fast and good at telling when people are lying, and probably crazy good at Space Baseball and whatever, but they don't pose any kind of major threat to the galaxy. Based on what we have seen, and the lack of rogue force sensitives going on rampages outside the Republic, this seems like the most likely outcome.

How do the Jedi justify themselves to the Senate then? How do they maintain their independence and status if you've got non-Jedi force sensitives running for office or serving in the diplomatic corp? Non-Jedi force sensitives in the policing and security services?

A significant element of the Jedi's status and privilege is that they are legitimately very, very good at things. The Force does make you better at discerning the truth, reading people, sensing the long term outcomes of decisions, combat etc. It makes the Jedi significant assets.

They're also a mysterious and poorly understood religious order. For historical reasons this has been tolerated, and the Jedi have justified their ongoing independence through effectiveness and lack of alternatives.

Lots of non-Jedi Force sensitives, with access to non-Jedi teachers who can still teach them the mechanics of the Force, severely challenges that status.

Again this is not a wholly or even mostly nefarious concern for the Jedi to have. In the same way that more planets/entities having independent militarised security forces ala the Trade Federation might be a challenge to stability, having more (potentially militarised) Force sensitives has a risk. However, the policy of Jedi monopoly on recruitment is only one way of managing that risk, and it is a way that simultaneously cements their position in the Republic.

Importantly - this also all suits the Republic itself. While I am sure some people want their own Force sensitive armies, no one wants someone else to have them. I also imagine no one is excited about having to fund a second or third mysterious religion filled with (potentially) super powered warrior diplomats. No one wants more competing interests and jurisdictional debates etc.

So I don't think this is an example of the Jedi somehow tricking the Republic or behaving deceitfully or doing anything except their very best to do what they think is right.

That just doesn't mean this isn't a political policy.

[count-doodoo]

#okay listen#my personal opinion is#that in a universe where at least ONE person in all of sw had a single political bone#the very existence of a 'neutral' mandalore (or faction)#(neutral being in parentheses here because they are in fact NOT neutral by definition)#it should have been the FIRST sign that the whole conflict was a farce#because there was NO reason for the separatist to not simply steamroll and take those planets#ESPECIALLY madalore#with its historic strategic and resource importance#why focus your battles on poor planets like Ryloth if you could just take whole systems that apparently refuse to fight back themselves#AND refuse to have others fight for them in their stead#count 'lets commit warcrimes left right and center' dooku seemingly respecting that 'neutrality'??? RED FLAG#he gains NOTHING from it#in fact he gains LESS than nothing#so yes the existance of a 'neutral' faction makes sense as another tool of palpy to seed discord and render the republic useless#but nothing more and nothing less#and should have tipped at least SOMEONE off that theres something fishy going on here#yeah ive got that whole rant locked and loaded every second every hour 24/7

YOU'RE SO RIGHT like i'm not a political expert but what do you mean there's a seccession crisis and also a... "neutral" "pacifist" "still part of the republic actually" faction

star wars lore is getting too big for my brain. how did i miss that the fucking goddamn neutral systems (mandalore etc) are part of the republic. what the fuck man this is like a Big Thing. can someone print out all of wookieepedia and beat me to death with the thusly created cursed tome. thanks

[kanansdume]

Shows the Ahsoka show could've/should've been:

A political drama centering around Mon Mothma and Leia as they work to create a new Republic in the wake of the Empire's fall and their struggles to bring together two groups of people: the Rebels who now have to adjust to a new world that isn't quite so black and white anymore, and the politicians who STAYED politicians during the Empire era and whose fights were never black and white. This would connect to the Sequels storyline, theoretically.

A Rebels Sequel focusing on Sabine and Ahsoka going to search for Ezra. Focus would be on exploring this new place (whether it's a new galaxy or just a really distant/unexplored part of the GFFA) and it could split the plot between Sabine/Ahsoka and Ezra trying to survive on his own still so we get to SEE Ezra and explore his character even if the reunion still takes a while to happen.

An Ahsoka show focusing on Ahsoka post-Malachor but pre-ROTJ as she deals with her feelings about Anakin in a cast of ORIGINAL characters all build to support her journey. Focus on her guilt for having left him behind a second time and her guilt that she knows she won't be the one to save him (if he can be saved at all) and her confusion over who he truly was and what that might mean for her. Could include a character like Shin who Ahsoka takes under her wing and who is potentially ASKING Ahsoka to train her even though Ahsoka is refusing because she believes she can't train anybody and knows she's in a bad place to do it right now even if she could. Ahsoka journeys towards remembering why she wanted to be a Jedi and understanding that being a Jedi was, in large part, about creating a safe community for Force sensitive people to be themselves around others like them. Only after she's let go of Anakin and regained her identity as a Jedi can she take on a new Padawan of her own.

[transkholins]

finished watching the acolyte with a friend. thoughts in no particular order:

really interested by the choice to continually refer to the stranger as "the stranger" (predominantly in subtitles) rather than giving him a name or even calling him "the sith." especially in the context of the jedi going to brendok as a scientific/exploratory mission. like they view the force + the universe writ large as something that they can investigate and define, but the stranger is fundamentally unknowable. the dark side and the sith exist outside of the limits of their knowledge.

relatedly: thinking about the scene in the phantom menace where qui-gon tells the jedi council that he thinks maul is a sith. like for one yoda says that the dark side is "hard to see." but also, the jedi pretty much refuse to accept that the sith could return, that they could be anything but eradicated, that the jedi order's knowledge is not absolute. one of the reasons that palpatine, dooku, and anakin are able to destroy the order is because the jedi continually refuse to believe that they could ever come back without them knowing. the clone army is able to be created because the jedi can't accept that the archives could be incomplete (or made incomplete). etc.

the point of the above is that the jedi order (and the republic writ large) is sowing the seeds of their own destruction. i don't think it's an accident that osha and the stranger were both trained by the jedi order - or even that dooku and anakin were, later down the line. the jedi and the republic unintentionally create the conditions that allow the sith and the empire to take control.

thinking about that scene where a senator comes to speak with vernestra and calls the jedi a cult, after we've seen the jedi constantly call the coven on brendok a cult. like the jedi have totally sold out to the republic, that's a point that stover makes in the rots novel, they're tools of the state. and that status confers them legitimacy and also a lot of power - even though individual actors in the republic can think they're weird/unethical/etc., the jedi can still enforce their hegemony over other spiritual practices in the gffa. they have the right to test potential padawans (and the caveat of "with consent" hardly seems to matter in the narrative).

jedi-republic politics are always kind of interesting to me. the jedi want the institutional backing of the republic to do things like test and take padawans, explore/catalog planets, wield power over spiritual practices unaffiliated with the republic and enforce hegemony, etc., but they don't want to be monitored or audited by the republic. they want to conduct their own business internally, and at every turn, it becomes obvious that they're increasingly corrupt. indara and sol can lie to the council and not be investigated. vernestra can lie about sol and the circumstances of his death to the senate and the chancellor, and she'll do it to avoid an external audit. much to consider.

i do appreciate the importance placed on osha's agency and ability to choose, even when she's a child. children are, legally speaking, wholly stripped of agency, even in the gffa - we see sol constantly being like, we need to test the girls, we need to bring them in, we need to train them. we see koril constantly encouraging mae to choose for osha. both koril and sol compress osha and mae into one entity, one person, they assume they know what's best for them. and so i really like how aniseya emphasizes letting osha choose for herself, trusting that osha knows what she wants and needs. and of course ultimately the jedi take that opportunity to choose away, but i think that makes it all the more relevant that osha chooses to leave the jedi order.

lots of comparisons and contrasts to be drawn between the coven on brendok and the master-padawan relationship. i think trying to decide if one or the other is morally better isn't useful, but ultimately, the jedi have the institutional power necessary to decide that the coven is Bad, that they're training mae and osha Incorrectly, while the coven cannot decide the same for the master-padawan relationship (which, in the show, ranges from genuinely caring to apathetic, but tends to alienate/exploit/indirectly kill padawans).

i'm not sure how much water this carries, but i think it was interesting that indara basically dismisses torbin's emotions and desires (wanting to return to coruscant) and then he turns around and disobeys her orders. he learns that she doesn't care about what he wants, so he learns to not care about what she wants. the jedi order continues to sow the seeds of its own destruction.

there are definitely things that sit poorly with me - the ending, mostly. i'm trying to articulate why but i suspect it's got something to do with osha and mae's characterizations (felt very different from how they're written in the rest of the show) and how sol's death was handled. like i'm fine with vernestra spinning a story because it reinforces the ideas the show is playing with vis a vis the jedi as an institution with power. but with his death itself, see above note about osha's characterization, and also i would like it if we could not kill off the only prominent east asian jedi after forty plus years of star wars being wildly orientalist at every possible opportunity. like having characters of color doesn't mean much if you're not going to treat their stories with care.

also i think we need to stop trying to do reylo. i think reylo was bad enough. we don't need to try and redo it. it's just not interesting and it does the characters involved a disservice. as stated above, i like it when osha has agency and gets to choose things, but historically joining the sith has been something coercive and abusive (see palpatine explicitly grooming anakin to be a sith in the prequels) and i don't think there's any way you can argue that osha was given a meaningful choice to join the stranger. just because the jedi order is corrupt and the jedi are tools of the state doesn't mean that the sith are necessarily a better or more empowering option, because morality isn't a zero-sum game. i think the most interesting reads of the jedi and sith are the ones that critique both. oh fucking well.

[jadelotusflower]

So I finally watched Andor...

...and naturally I have thoughts (hey, it’s me). Maybe they're belated, seeing as this show was released almost two years ago, but I've been on the outskirts of the Star Wars fandom for a while now. This in and of itself isn't usual - I tend to drift between my core fandoms in phases, but since TLJ the GFFA hasn't really been a pleasant place to be so I haven't really had a reason to drift back to it for any length of time.

Which isn't to say I've avoided Star Wars altogether, dipping in when something piques my interest like Obi-Wan Kenobi (which I liked aspects of but ultimately felt like just a setup to the show I actually wanted to watch), and have absorbed some of the rest through cultural osmosis. Andor is a show I've been meaning to get to for a while, although it has been praised to the point of being overhyped (and there was a whiff of Not Like Other Star Wars to the critical reception) so I was concerned it would not meet expectations.

But I was pleasantly surprised as how much this show felt spiritually and aesthetically in tune with the original trilogy, and especially A New Hope, as opposed to Disney!Star Wars. Even if the tone and content of Andor is very different, it feels in conversation with the OT in a way the rest of Disney’s output has not - building on the story we already know, rather than trying replace or rewrite it as something else.

Aesthetically, we have the 70's vibe of the set design and costuming in middle-class Coruscant, the stark white jumpsuits and surrounds of Narkina 5 evoking Lucas's early film THX-1138, even the way we are plopped right into the middle of the story with very little exposition, but still eased into the narrative is very reminiscent of the first act of A New Hope. Thematically, of course we’re seeing the Rebellion in its earlier stages - small disparate cells of seditious activity directly acting against Imperial interests that will become the somewhat ragtag but nonetheless organised and unified Alliance.

While Star Wars was a cinema pastiche throwback to Flash Gordan serials and Campbell’s hero’s journey as an antidote to the grimdark antiheroes of the 70’s, in many ways Andor brings things back full circle to the grit of neo-noir. It holds a mirror up to the OT and lets us see the other side of the coin - and the full cost of victory. So many people have to die for Cassian to make it to the Rebellion - just like Cassian himself will die for the Death Star plans to make it to Leia, like Obi-Wan will die to ensure those plans make it to the Rebellion, and squadrons of rebel pilots will die so Luke can ultimately destroy the Death Star.

A stone is dropped in a pond, and we see the ripples but the stone itself sinks.

Overall thoughts

Tony Gilroy is the showrunner here, a veteran screenwriter notable for the Bourne films, and we can certainly see this influence at work. He also wrote The Devil’s Advocate, which is by no means good but I do enjoy in all its ott mythological monologues-and-accents glory, and seminal romcom (of my childhood at least) The Cutting Edge. He also wrote and directed Michael Clayton, which I have not seen but was nominated for several Oscars, including Original Screenplay, Director, and Best Picture (Tilda Swinton won for Supporting Actress).

Of course he's also a credited screenwriter on Rogue One, and I understand his contribution was mostly to the infamous rewrites/reshoots. I desperately want to read a full breakdown/bts of what went down with that film (well all of Disney-led Lucasfilm really) and see the deleted/original material, because I am fascinated. It's also interesting to note that Gilroy took over showrunning duties from Stephen Schiff pre-production. The show does very much feel like Gilroy wanted to make his own stamp on the Andor character and use him as a vehicle in his spy-thriller/political intrigue wheelhouse.

Reading some of Gilroy’s comments around the series had made me wonder how much of Andor being reflective/referential to the OT was intentional (on his part at least), and arguably Gilroy did overwrite the character of Cassian Andor so…there’s nuance. But as a story, to me it felt in tune with what I love about Star Wars rather than at odds with it, and that's what I appreciated most.

But first things first. B2EMO made it to the end! Finally, my expectations are subverted in a good way, because I love this little droid with all my heart. There are several key elements of Star Wars to me that separate it from other sci-fi/space fantasy and that is Jedi, distinctive aliens, and sentient droids. Obviously there's no Jedi here (nor does there need to be), my issues with the lack of aliens I'll address below, but when it comes to droids B2EMO fits right in, and we can assume is a precursor to Cassian's relationship with K-2SO.

Overall I thought the show was excellent (with a few caveats). What's impressive is the sheer number of characters and plots interwoven together, every conversation servicing character, the overall theme or setting something up that will pay off later, playing with coincidence and fate (the will of the Force), the interlocking domino effect. Arvel Skeen recognising the tattoo on Cassian's arm leads to a conversation of his history, but also sets up Skeen later offering to take and split the haul with Cassian (and getting killed for it). The raid on Aldhani triggers the Empire’s harsh new measures that gets Cassian sentenced to six years in prison, but also inspires the rebellion on Ferrix (via Maarva). The Aldhani heist is a triumph for Vel, but traps Mon’s financial contributions to the Rebellion by the Empire’s crackdown on banking, leading her and her daughter into an unwanted family alliance.

I'm a big proponent of Star Wars Dialogue is Good, Actually - not saying there's not clunkers or stilted scenes (the PT moreso than the OT) but there seems to be this weird consensus that Lucas-era dialogue sucks despite being some of the most quoted/referenced movies of all time. Lucas was creating a modern myth, of course a lot of it is arch and operatic. I love the dialogue in Andor too - which rightly gets high praise, and while it's arguably tighter, in many ways it's no more naturalistic than that of the Saga with everyone constantly speaking in metaphor, it's just pitched differently because this is a different genre (and the acting is uniformly excellent because they are actually interacting with each other and being competently directed).

There’s layers of meaning in almost every scene and subtle moments of foreshadowing that I really enjoy - Karis Nemik muses on the role of mercenaries in a rebellion that must use every tool and weapon at its disposal, and obviously Cassian starts out as that mercenary who will be pulled into the wider struggle, but this also foreshadows the importance of Han Solo - at first only out for the promise of a reward but ultimately instrumental in bringing the Empire down. But it’s not because he’s treated as a tool - as the Empire treats its workforce as tools - but because he’s treated as worthwhile, he’s valued as a person. The Empire casts people out while the Rebellion draws them in.

We also see this in the arc on Narkina 5, and the Empire’s tightening grip backfiring against them. In order to force the prisoners to speedily produce parts for the Death Star they work in close-knit teams, creating a close camaraderie ultimately allowing them to escape - because when you turn people into cogs of a machine, the machine can be turned back against you. Contrast this to the jockeying over position and territory and power in the ISB - they serve the Empire, but never at personal cost.

We see the Republic of affiliated systems from the PT turn into an Empire of conquered planets, where local cultures are subsumed into homogeneous Imperial rule. Even Corpsec is replaced by Imperial oversight, and we know that the Senate on Coruscant will be dissolved completely in ANH. But ultimately this ferments rebellion and unites the outcast and oppressed - the Keredians on Narkina 5 hate the Empire for their prison polluting the waterways, and so let Cassian and Melchi go. Cinta’s whole family was killed by stormtroopers turning her single minded focus to destroying them. The people of Ferrix respond to Maarva’s call and riot against the Imperial forces even though it will mean violent reprisal.

The Empire forges the weapons that will be used against them. As Nemik’s manifesto states: “The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.”

And yet we're not there yet - it's important that this is still a Rebellion and not an Alliance, a disparate collection of segmented sedition with a myriad of agendas we see run by Saw Gerrara, Anton Kreegyr, Luthen Rael. They won't be a genuine threat to the Empire until they join forces, share resources and intelligence, and unite behind a collective goal. Although there may be sacrifices in this as well - Separatists, Partisan Front, Sectorists etc mentioned by Saw will either coalesce under the Alliance to Restore the Republic or be driven further to the fringes.

The thrust of Nemik's manifesto is that freedom is a natural state of being, while oppression is unnatural, and even though Andor has nothing to do with the Jedi it nonetheless echoes their philosophy: that the Force is in a natural state of balance, while the existence of the Sith who tap into the Dark Side upset this balance. As we see in Return of the Jedi, the balance is ultimately restored by the return to that natural state buffeted by the most powerful forces - friendship, love, sacrifice - forces that ultimately drive Cassian as well. While much has been said of the moral ambiguity and nuance of Andor, it's not incongruent with the OT, if anything it reinforces its power and message.

HOWEVER, I have my nits to pick - the lack of aliens is a serious flaw (and in particular, the lack of familiar aliens). In some cases they can get away with it and make subtle commentary - Coruscant is stark and grey as the centre of bureaucracy in stark contrast to the vibrant metropolis of the PT. Seeing the streets populated almost exclusively by humans where once it was a melting pot underscores the Empire’s segregationist policies. However the dearth of non-humans elsewhere - Ferrix, Aldhani, even the prison labour camp Narkina 5 - is disconcerting. These are places meant to depict the oppressive rule of the Empire and this undermines the strength of the rebellion as a group of diverse species fighting against the Imperial monoculture. It's odd, for example, that we see all the characters from Ferrix return except Vetch, the muscle employed "just to stand there" by Nurchi (a nice moment with Cassian!), and that Maarva's funeral procession seems entirely human.

Ultimately, I think the setup is much stronger than the payoff, and while I appreciate the slow burn, the show does have sometimes have difficulty juggling the plots. Once set up, characters are parked waiting to be incorporated into the narrative (it feels like we watch Syril stare at his cereal forever) and looking back not much actually happens to a lot of them- there are a lot of threads left hanging and not much resolution. Which is of course because this was only intended to be season 1 of 5, with each arc a year of Cassian’s life leading up to Rogue One. But sadly Andor has been given a second season only, leaving 12 episodes to wrap everything up, so ultimately I fear the show will feel like a slow setup and rushed conclusion, which is a real shame.

Cassian Andor

I’m went into this as someone who doesn’t really have a strong connection to Cassian as a character - I certainly liked him in Rogue One! But let’s just say he’s not my blorbo. And this not the backstory I would have expected for the character five years before Rogue One as someone who has “been in this fight since [he] was six years old.”

Diego Luna has such a charismatic presence and it is nice to have a more internal, insular character, but it’s kind of sad that Cassian is really the least developed character in a show ostensibly about him. It’s not really his story, but he’s the fulcrum (pun intended) around which most of the other characters pivot; this is a story of the rebellion of which he is just one part. So, I can see if Cassian fans may have been upset by his lack of focus, and I personally would have wanted to delve a bit deeper into Cassian Andor on a show called Andor, you know? And it does feel a little bit skeevy that the actual Axis (pun intended) of the show is Luthen in his middle age white man glory, with a whiff of Gilroy’s self-insert about him.

I do wish LFL would abandon simply naming their shows after the main character - presumably it’s for general audience recognition and algorithmic reasons, but my god how boring. If the show had been marketed as the ensemble it actually is I would take less issue with the lack of Cassian focus. But sadly I’m not sure we know that much more about Cassian at the end of the show than we did at the end of the first three episodes - or really, what it adds to his character and arc we see in Rogue One.

Yes he’s further radicalised by his experiences and is now presumably "all in" on the rebellion, but the events of the show are kicked off by Cassian searching for his sister which is a motivation that is all but dropped thereafter - although at one point I was half-expecting (dreading) it to be revealed that Luthen's assistant Kleya Marki was Kerri (and sidebar, Kleya - what a stone cold bitch! I love a stone cold bitch).

This plot will likely continue in season 2, but it felt a bit undercooked and too deep in the subtext given the prominence it had in kicking off the narrative. We get a flashback to Cassian’s childhood, but ultimately it feels like lipservice to his Indigenous heritage rather than true engagement since we don't see him reflect on it in any way, nor does it seem to have any impact on his choices throughout the series that seem primarily motivated by his life and relationships on Ferrix.

We get a strong start to Cassian and Luthen that peters out - he's intent on recruiting Cassian, but then writes him off when Cassian flees after Aldhani and wants him killed, then goes all the way to Ferrix for him, but is about to leave without actually doing anything? I know Luthen's meant to be ambiguous, but this is one area where plot is obviously driving things not character. I get that it was important for Cassian to be the one to go to Luthen at the end and choose the Rebellion unfetted, but the relationship is undercooked. I almost feel like the series is a procession of things that happen to Cassian rather than a journey I was on with him. There's external forces, but very little internal focus.

However, what I did love about the show was the thematic resonance that was happening on a macro and micro level - while the show as a whole is a mirror/reflection of the OT, we also see dichotomy in the character pairings that are mirrors and/or foils of each other in various ways - we have the two sides of the conflict being Empire and Rebellion (with Cassian stuck in the middle), and we are also shown conflict within those two sides.

Cassian is without a reflective character pairing because his true mirror is Jyn Erso, and seeing Cassian’s struggles here does give real weight to his “you’re not the only one who lost everything” speech - in many ways the show is his journey from being Jyn, to being the man who says to her “we don't all have the luxury of deciding when and where we want to care about something.”

Mon Mothma and Luthen Rael

The most obvious mirror/foil pair as the two sides of the Rebellion, although arguably we have a third prong in Saw Gerrara, and kind of a mirror in Luthen as Cassian’s mentor as Saw was Jyn’s - and I do wonder about the show that was a two-handed prequel with Cassian and Jyn growing up in different factions of the Rebellion, but alas.

The artifact Luthen gives Mon represents “a sun goddess and a serpent sharing the same mouth” representing their differing philosophical approach to fighting the Empire. As mirror characters they are alike in many ways - both of the privileged class and living double lives on Coruscant, but while Mon makes political efforts to move the needle on the Empire's activities in the Senate while also funneling money to direct but small rebel efforts, Luthen outright pokes the bear, sacrifices allies, and knowingly making things worse to swell the ranks of the rebellion on the hope it will speed up progress. There's more than a hint of the incrementalism/revolutionary dichotomy here.

It also raises a lot of interesting questions without (rightly) providing many answers - the struggle of the oppressed, the moral weight of insurgency and revolution. Is it right to intentionally provoke an oppressive power into reacting with violence in order to fuel a greater pushback against them? Is short term suffering justified if it achieves eventual victory, and is it right for the few to decide what is a justifiable sacrifice? What are our responsibilities to each other under the threat of/struggle against authoritarianism? As social commentary it's more timely than ever.

Whether Mon or Luthen is right for the viewer to decide, although as Leia tells Tarkin in ANH: "the more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." On the other hand, we know Mon survives to the end of the Empire while Luthen (I assume) will not. She will become a leading figure in the Alliance, and eventual Chancellor of the New Republic, while he will be another stone at the bottom of the pond.

This is foreshadowed in the dialogue (with a direct mirror reference):

“I’m condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else’s future. I burn my life, to make a sunrise that I know I’ll never see. No, the ego that started this fight will never have a mirror, or an audience, or the light of gratitude."

Arguably however, the mirror is the show - we are the audience.

We know Cassian joins Luthen at the end of season 1, and will meet Mon in season 2, so it will be interesting to see him struggle between these two philosophies, although we can infer from Rogue One that he aligns himself (out of necessity) with Luthen's veiwpoint:

"We've all done terrible things on behalf of the Rebellion. Spies, saboteurs, assassins....And every time I walked away from something I wanted to forget, I told myself it was for a cause that I believed in. A cause that was worth it. Without that, we're lost."

Ultimately, the Rebellion needs people like Luthen and Cassian to make not only the physical sacrifice, but the moral one as well (noting our first introduction to Cassian is him killing an informant so he can escape) - people who play the Empire's game so Luke can ultimately reject the Emperor's.

But I had mixed feelings on the Mon Mothma storyline. It feels a bit off for Luthen to be her entrée into the Rebellion, when we know she’s been on the ground from the very beginning with the Petition of the 2000 (cut from ROTS, but still canon I assume). She just felt very isolated and fragile which is at odds with her quiet steel that we see in Return of the Jedi and Rogue One. I could maybe see this Mon in the early dark days, but only 5 years before ANH? A scene with Bail Organa would not have gone amiss just to give breadth to her rebellious activities.

We get to see Luthen visit Saw Gerrara on Segra Milo, why not give Mon a scene with Bail to show she has other irons in the fire rather than relying on Luthen? In Saw we see the rough and tumble of disparate rebel factions, I would have liked to see the political machinations of Mon and Bail to serve the metaphor even further.

She is more than just a bank for the rebellion, and I think in the effort to contrast Luthen and Mon there was a bit of disservice done to the latter.

And Mon’s loser husband - ugh. Okay they’re in some kind of arranged marriage but there’s very little substance, nothing us particularly revealed about Mon by including him. Other than her cleverly using his gambling debts to deflect her rebellion spending at the end, the story wouldn’t really have changed by him not existing, and in fact would have been improved by focusing more on Mon’s difficult relationship with her daughter.

But on a purely shallow note, I want her wardrobe!

Dedra Meero and Syril Karn

In some ways Cassian and Syril are the narrative foils and there are parallels between them - their conflict instigated in the first episodes, their maternal relationships, both essentially exiles for the middle section before both end up back on Ferrix where Cassian saves Bix and Syril saves Dedra. But I feel Syril and Dedra work better as mirrors, and their arcs also parallel and intersect.

In the Empire, Dedra and Syril are two sides of the other coin (there's quite a few coins in this metaphor). Regimes need bureaucracy, and you have the true believers, the status-climbers, and those just going along to get along. In Dedra we have the talented star of the prestigious Imperial Security Bureau, and in Syril the over eager Corporate Security officer, two arms of the Empire’s control, although the latter we see becoming obsolete as the former gains more control.

But they're both middlemen who chafe against the inaction of their superiors, both desperate to rise above their station (although those stations are quite far apart). Throughout the series their plots are mostly in parallel; they are reflections of each other without even having met.

It's uncomfortable to watch both of them on screen - all unblinking stares, sucked in cheeks, and pursed lips - fittingly repellent. I’m surprised Gilroy has said he wrote Dedra to be relatable - she skeeved me out from the first, someone clearly ready to step over anyone and everyone if it served her purposes rather than someone gradually drawn further into an authoritarian regime. There's the slight subtext of sexism - there's only one other women in the ISB briefing and Pendergast alludes to it, but that certainly didn't engender any sympathy or admiration from me.

In episode 7 Syril’s mother Eedy says “Everything says something, Syril” and chastises him about tailoring his uniform (just as he did in the first episode, a neat little character tell), and immediately after we see Dedra donning her uniform perfectly in sync with the rest of the ISB. He’s trying to stand out from the crowd, she’s trying to fit in - or, from a different perspective, Syril adjusts his collar to resemble the Imperial style as a signifier of where he wants to be, while Dedra is already there and still looking higher.

But both are thinking outside the rigid Imperial lines and command structures, both on the hunt for Cassian - although for Syril it's personal and Dedra it's about climbing the ranks. Both take it upon themselves to investigate against orders, but Syril’s attempts are clumsy and random while Dedra’s are clinical and targeted.

She identifies that “systems either change or die” to push the ISB’s fragmented and bureaucratic inefficiencies into a cohesive power structure, but while it wins her approval it doesn’t earn her any loyalty; her troops abandon her to the mob on Ferrix. Inexplicably though, Syril does manage to gain the loyalty of Sergeant Mosk, who was also punished for the initial blunder on Ferrix, but ultimately draws Syril back there to in search of Cassian.

The point at which they first intersect in episode 8, Dedra is on an upswing, she holds the power and sends Syril further down, but when they meet again in episode 11, the roles are reversed as he is the one to save her from the mob.

I just hope they’re going somewhere more interesting than his creepy crush.

Vel Sartha and Cinta Kaz

One of the major faults of Rogue One was its Smurfette Syndrome, where Jyn is a great female character surrounded by men, but Andor has pleasingly course corrected from this. See what happens when you don’t have one woman having to embody everything and bear the weight of her entire gender in the narrative (and therefore, also bear the criticism)? Andor happily treats its women as characters, not faux-empowering meme-fodder. Although there is perhaps some valid commentary that it’s still white women on the whole - Dedra, Mon, Vel, Maarva - who get the meatier roles, and I have my issues with Mon’s characterisation, but one thing I will give Disney LFL credit for is it’s ongoing efforts towards gender parity.

In Vel and Cinta we have two more sides of insurgency - from wealth and privilege in Vel, the cousin of Mon Mothma struggling with the weight of it all, to Cinta with her cold fire and unwavering drive, her family killed by stormtroopers and for whom the struggle will always come first.

Cinta’s cool reserve is a contrast to Vel’s nerves (as seen in the Aldhani raid); they’re coming from very different places even if their cause is the same. There may even be a bit of classism in the subtext - Vel leads the mission on Aldhani after asking for the mission from Luthen, when really Cinta is the one who is most committed, and she has to push Vel though several times when she falters.

Vel still has one foot in the Imperial world and the complications of rebellious machinations - worried for Mon and her family, wanting to prove herself to Luthen, jockeying with Kleya - but for Cinta none of that matters, she loves Vel but there's often a sense she's disappointed in her. There's a dichotomy within Cinta - she's not unfeeling, showing kindness to Cassian when he joins their group, yet accepting the mission to kill him later without hesitation.

It seems to me that Cinta is the revolutionary Vel wants to be but can't quite divest herself of enough to become - the metaphor is made explicit with these two - Cinta tells Vel: “I’m a mirror. You love me because I show you what you need to see.”

Which is a pretty interesting dynamic, especially as a romantic one, and I’m interested to see where it will go (and hope that Cinta will get more focus, even though I do love Vel a lot too).

Their storyline did run out of steam by the end through, was there any point to either of these characters being on Ferrix at the end? It very much felt like all the plot lines were being forced to intersect at the climax without all of them necessarily needing to. Although Cinta stabbing that guy in the heart was pretty cathartic.

Bix Callen, Maarva Andor, and Ferrix

I loved Ferrix as a location, with its own distinct aesthetic, culture, and populace - the work gloves all hung on the wall, the metal tapping warning system, the daily hammer and anvil (the Time Grappler, according to Wookieepedia), funerary practices. etc. The first few episodes set up Cassian’s community on Ferrix which we come full circle on in the final two, but I did have some trouble keeping track of who was who at that point.

It is interesting that the trope of “just another brick in the wall” is turned on its head here - rather than representing a cog in the machine, in Ferrix ashes of the deceased are mixed with brick and added to a wall in remembrance - a literal touchstone for Cassian as he remembers his adoptive father Clem. A wall is strong, a bulwark against outside forces, and every brick added makes it stronger. Stones dropped in a pond, bricks built into a wall - reminders of the dead that spur the will to fight.

I do love the relationship between Maarva and Cassian, especially in a franchise that has never really had an interest in mothers and sons. And we have another mirror in the overcritical and cold relationship between Syril and Eedy as the inverse of Cassian’s complicated but loving one with Maarva - contrast the reception Syril gets when he returns home to the one Cassian gets from Maarva, as ultimately Eedy's pointed disappointment is sharp where Maarva's is borne from love and concern for Cassian.

But again there’s a disconnect with the history we’re shown - Maarva and Clem kidnap/save Kassa from Kenari but we don’t really get any sense of how Cassian feels about it or the connection he has to his heritage/childhood. I’m not saying I need everything spelled out, but sometimes I feel the show does err too much on the side of subtext, and as a result we don’t delve as deep into some of the relationships as we could have. Even her final message to Cassian - that she loves him more than anything he could ever do wrong - is a beautiful sentiment, but is it earned? He hasn't really done anything wrong, arguably she did wrong by him by taking him from Kenari but it's never even mentioned, it doesn’t even seem to be a factor in their relationship as adults.

On the other hand, I didn’t mind the treatment of the post-romantic relationship between Cassian and Bix - there’s a sense of history there but it didn’t need to be explored further. Bix's involvement in the Rebellion is interesting though, it's implied she was recruited by Kleya through the black market but are her motives purely profit or does she have rebellious fervor? Luthen knows of Cassian through Bix - did she see him as a candidate for the Rebellion or just another person from whom Luthen could obtain tech? What piqued Luthen's interest from what Bix said about him?

I don't think all these questions need answers, but it is unfortunate that she does get a bit Damseled, spending most of the runtime threatened, captured, and then tortured. On the other hand, there's less to criticise in employing that trope when it's not the only one at work and the breadth of female characters on the show.

I do wonder if we will see Bix, Brasso, and B2EMO again though, or if they’re a part of Cassian’s past he had to leave behind to fully commit himself to the Rebellion.

On nostalgia, fanservice, and the state of the Star Wars universe

A tangent into my frustrations with the sequel trilogy, skip if you’re allergic to salt.

Andor has been lauded for its lack of fanservice, although I’d actually argue it’s a show that (perhaps despite Gilroy's intention) is rooted in nostalgia. Well, perhaps not nostalgia per se, but it’s a show that relies on the audience’s knowledge and affection of Rogue One and the Original Trilogy, and it’s successful because it manages to feel authentic and fulfilling rather than ham-fisted and overly meta - a story set in the Star Wars universe, not about the Star Wars universe.

I know Gilroy intended this to be able to stand alone, but would the story have the same resonance if we weren't aware where Cassian's path leads, that the efforts and actions of Mon and Luthern, Vel and Cinta, Nemik, Bix and Kleya, are ultimately justified? Perhaps it would work in a generic sci-fi setting rather than the GFFA, but would we feel as much watching it? Personally, I think not.

Because nostalgia isn’t inherently bad. It’s a vital part of how we consume media - the stories that resonate with us in childhood will continue to resonate in adulthood because they are foundational, it's a shortcut to that incredible feeling of discovering something new that's nonetheless something very old. It's partly why Star Wars was such a success in the first place - a mix of myth and fairy tale, matinee serial and Kurosawa - a familiar story told in a new way. And like in Hadestown, "we're gonna sing it again and again."

The problem with nostalgia is when it’s empty; window dressing intended to evoke that feeling but without any substance behind it, so it feels cheap and unsatisfying. Andor doesn’t completely escape from this (blue milk, mouse droid), but most inclusions feel organic.

Sometimes I think we go to far decrying fanservice, and of course it's subjective - as I like to say, everyone hates it until they’re the fan being serviced. But there is criticism, and then there's dismissing any references to existing material as mere "fanservice" and therefore contemptible. For example, I’ve seen the treatment of Luke, Han, and Leia in the sequel trilogy defended because to actually have them interact at all would be “silly fanservice” rather than natural because, you know, they’re family.

The difference, for me, is does inclusion of a known character/object/trope/line of dialogue serve the character and/or story, or is it Leo DiCaprio pointing meme, designed for “hey it’s the thing” nostalgia and YouTube compilations with no substance behind it? Ultimately, is the inclusion Watsonian or Doylist - and if the latter, what of the former justifies it.

Mon Mothma or Saw Gerrara in Andor doesn’t feel like fanservice even though they’re existing characters, because it makes sense to include them in a story about the Rebellion’s beginning and they had a part to play in Rogue One, to which Andor is ostensibly a prequel. Conversely Leia and Vader’s inclusion in Obi-Wan Kenobi (even if I did enjoy them both) tip over in the side of fanservice because they really have no place in Obi-Wan’s story at that point and require fanwanking around their dialogue in ANH (and to be fair, Lucas was guilty of this as well). I don’t need to see random object or minor character no 6 from the PT/OT/Clone Wars, iconic catch phrase shoved where it doesn’t make sense, or obscure Legends reference divorced from context, just tell me a good story! Give me characters to care about! Make me feel something! Andor did that, where much of the other Disney Star Wars content has not.

This is my fundamental, and possibly at this point, irreconcilable, issue. Disney wanted to get away from Lucas-associated Star Wars as quickly as possible, replacing every character, planet, and theme with their own wholly Disney counterpart, killing off Han, Luke, and Leia so the old and classic couldn’t distract from the shiny and new, tearing down the conclusion of the original trilogy only to try and tell the exact same story (just not as well). They did it so quickly and so shoddily that many were understandably unsatisfied, leaving Disney to frantically course correct, going back to the well and shoving nostalgia bait into every conceivable project even (especially) if it had no place.

If they’d actually had any sort of plan for the sequel trilogy, if they’d made their focus to conclude the Skywalker Saga in a way that even approached emotional resonance, imo the vast majority of the audience would be happy to move on and embrace the next chapter - new characters, new stories. But people can’t move on from the characters they love because the treatment of those characters and the post-ROTJ timeline was so unsatisfying. Luke wouldn’t have needed to show up in The Mandolorian to try and placate the fans if treatment of the character in the ST hasn’t been so abysmal.

So LFL have been stuck in this weird ancillary storytelling space, where every project seemingly needs to be adjacent to the Skywalker Saga but not actually engaging with the Saga direct - Han has a prequel film no one asked for, Rey is a Skywalker for name recognition only, Luke pops up in pointless cameos but isn’t there when he arguably should be (just recast the damn role already!), we get young Leia in a story where she has no place rather than in one she does, who knows what’s going on with the whole Ashoka/Thrawn/Heir to the Empire stuff, Boba Fett is There with a parade of Hey it’s that character/ship/thing with no contribution to the actual storytelling.

What does this have to do with Andor? Well, Andor is perhaps the only quality tv product of the Disney era, which is fitting since Rogue One is imo the only quality film of the Disney era (TFA being retroactively diminished by what came after). Andor is the type of story Star Wars should be telling - expanding the universe, using known elements and characters where it makes sense to do so, not a collection of ideas on a whiteboard thrown in front of an LED screenstage and a bunch of meaningless easter eggs.

To be fair, this does seem what they are attempting to do with The Acolyte (which I am actually enjoying!) but the planned Rey-focused post-ST film…eh. Admittedly I never bothered to watch Rise of Skywalker, but where can the story possibly go? Is there any investment at all after the mess that was the sequel trilogy? I can’t see how the narrative can possibly be redeemed at this point, which is a shame because I do believe it started with a lot of promise in The Force Awakens that was squandered by a lack of vision, planning, and oversight, and the bizarre need to brutalise and kill off the legacy characters, marginalise the genuinely original and interesting new characters, and waste the immense acting talent they had at their disposal.

They’ve made no meaningful in-universe progress after the ST, the New Republic and Jedi have to be rebuilt again, except Rey is going to do it this time somehow, so what what the point of the last 30 years in the timeline? It’s different with Andor - we know where his story ends, but the series only makes Cassian’s sacrifice stronger, there’s emotional resonance in seeing his journey to Rogue One in knowing that it’s in service of the overall victory of the Rebellion (however undermined that victory is made by the ST).

But I digress. This rant really ended up being kind of off topic - apologies.

Anyway. Andor is good! I liked it! Looking forward to season 2!

[tranakin-skywalker]

kind of a weird thought but do you think Padme is up to date on the holonet. Like Earth memes and humor change out so quickly, would she even have time for the holonet at all as a politician?? (Your Padme humor post made me start thinking about this) Would Ahsoka or Anakin’s references fly over her head or would she be on top of that kinda stuff because Naboo PR needed her to be

Hmm, that's hard to say. Elections don't seem to work in the GFFA the same way they do here. Like, in AotC Padme says that the Queen asked her to serve as senator for Naboo. Not run for senator, serve. Which implies that it's a position appointed by the Queen, not elected by the people. (And based on what we see of Naboo, I'd hazard a guess that the Queen is elected by the ruling houses/ some other governing body rather than a general election by the whole population. Not to mention that whole thing where the Chancellor is elected by the senate, consisting of about 2,000 senators. Except there's about 1.3 million planets represented in the galactic senate. And about 3.2 BILLION inhabited systems in the galaxy. So, most of the galaxy isn't being represented in the senate, basically.)

All that's to say, I don't think the average citizen's opinion matters in Star Wars. Like, at all.

So yeah, I don't really think there'd be much investment in PR, Naboo or otherwise. The only people who's opinions matter are the ones sitting in senate pods.

That said, politics tends to be very, very boring. I do think there'd be points where Padme would be obligated to attend sessions that have no bearing on her whatsoever, so she spends it browsing space Pintrest.

I think it makes sense for her to be up to date on some aspects of the holonet, but I think a lot of what they have that would constitute as memes just wouldn't be on her radar.

That said, I am 110% certain that every single meme Anakin knows, he learned from Ahsoka. That man in not on the internet. He is a 54 year old grampa in the body of a 20 year old. His sense of humor is dad jokes and things so fucked up you just have to sit there a moment to process.

Ahsoka's the only one who knows anything about the holonet. A 14 year old girl is a 14 year old girl, even in space.