#free to be: understanding kids & gender identity

[transbookoftheday]

Free to Be: Understanding Kids & Gender Identity by Jack Turban

An authoritative guide to understanding and navigating gender identity from an acclaimed expert on the mental health of transgender and gender diverse youth.

Kids today are more gender fluent and expansive than ever before. In America, around two percent of teenagers (over 700,000) openly identify as transgender. As it becomes increasingly common for us to encounter and know transgender kids, as well as kids with more expansive notions of gender than past generations, it is vital that we have the tools we need in order to truly see and support them.

Free to Be is an authoritative deep dive by internationally renowned child and adolescent psychiatrist Dr. Jack Turban into the science, medicine, and politics of gender identity. You will be immersed in the lives of three trans and gender diverse youth—Meredith, Kyle, and Sam—as they navigate their gender identities, make decisions around gender-affirming medical and psychological care, and confront an overwhelming political and social terrain.

By combining the latest scientific research, stories of transgender children, and the intricacies of today’s political gender wars, Free to Be gives you the tools to help the kids in your life navigate the complexity of gender identity, while also coming to better understand what the nuances of gender mean to yourself and society at large.

[mayhem-moth]

Oh cmon it fucked up my tags -_-. I guess ill copy paste it here then:

Also I think its kinda dumb to police others identities. If someones a cat then someones a cat therians are a thing and they are valid. Existence is complicated and every creature has different experiences and ways of being completely unique to one another. What right do I have to tell another being that their unique way of being isn't valid just because I don't understand it personally.

I identitfy my gender ways that won't make sense to a lot of people. But it makes sense to me and thats what matters. If someones a robot, if someones an otherworldly being, then thats what they are. I don't like the way these people think because its filered through a world view entrenched in bigotry and it takes away everyones right to be free in what they are.

For me its not "oh its just a phase people grow out of that is for young kids“ its ”okay big deal? Does someone identifying as a cat really hurt anyone? Or does you and your ACTUAL agenda hurt people? Yknow the one that makes people like me and the people i love unsafe? The one that ties back to so many other forms of bigotry such as white supremacy? Intersexism? Did you think about how the things your saying makes others unsafe?"

"ohh what if my kid starts identifying as a CAT because of the trans agenda we have to prote—" well they've always done that. do you remember the psychological effects of h2o on young girls. of warrior cats on autistic children. i believed i was a demigod because of percy jackson. twilight came out and kids were telling their friends they were secretly vampires. this is just a thing kids do. worry less

[drdemonprince]

I was never really certain about my transition in the way that most gatekeeping hormone prescribers and curious members of the public demand that a trans person be. I didn’t “always know” that I was not cisgender. I haven’t “always known” anything about myself. Very few truths about me have always remained true, my existence is too interpersonal, contextual, and ever-evolving for all of that. (So is most everyone else’s, I think). I don’t think that the fact I’d eventually choose to exercise my body autonomy at age 30 by taking hormones is a decision I could have foreseen when I was a child. All that I knew about being transgender when I was a kid was a fact that most children intuitively know: gender assignment was a violation of my freedom, of everyone’s freedom in fact, and it was wrong. As an infant and then a child and teenager, people kept imposing labels on me; they kept forcing me and my body into prescribed gendered boxes, and while the specific labels and boxes never really felt like the right ones, the most disturbing part about it all was the forcing. No coerced identity would have ever felt right. Children can tell when secrets are being kept from them, and when adults are restricting their choices. They notice that they and the other children are being lined up boy-girl, boy-girl, without ever being told what a girl or a boy even is. They can see their parents frowning when they reach for the doll with the shimmery hair, or climb atop the neighbor kid on the playground. Kids know that they are forbidden from sitting with their legs spread wide or flicking their wrist, and their gender illegibility is shamed in them, long before they get any answers about what gender means or where it comes from or why it’s so important that they make themselves easy to understand.

Like the cloned children in Never Let Me Go who grow up being conditioned for a life of forced organ donation, children in a cissexist society grow up conditioned to fall within certain gendered boundary lines, and by the time they learn that the reason for this is almost completely arbitrary, they can’t imagine any alternative. Not until some of them hear about gender transition and find the prospect very compelling, for some reason. You can say that reason is because some of us are inherently trans, but there’s absolutely nothing in the way of brain science, genetics research, or even sociological data to back that up. Besides, the search for a biological “reason” that people are transgender or queer runs counter to the goal of queer liberation in the long run. Science only needs to explain the existence of transgender people (or queer people more broadly) if our existence is in some way aberrant or a problem. If queerness is accepted as a form of human diversity that simply exists, then there is no need to excuse it by claiming that it is never a choice. It can be a choice, if a person wants to make it, and hopefully it satisfies them, but maybe it won’t. Freedom to choose means freedom to forever be dissatisfied, to search endlessly for more, and yes, to capable of making a mistake. I would say that viewing myself as transgender was a choice. I decided to break away from the straight, female categories to which I had been assigned, and doing so allowed me to view the legal and societal power structures that had restricted me more clearly. It helped me better understand myself. But that does not mean the actual act of breaking away was always the truest reflection of who I am. The version of me that transitioned was a person on the run — and how a person behaves, thinks, and self-conceives when they are fleeing is not a great reflection of whom they might be if they were safe. If we all lived in a world free from mandatory gender assignment, and where our bodies were not mined for meaning about the kinds of sex we liked, the clothing we should wear, the personality qualities we have, the roles we should play in society, and the connections we are allowed to form with others, who knows who each of us might be. But none of us get to live in that world, or ever gets completely free from the frameworks of heterosexuality and the gender binary. These frameworks shape every legal institution we encounter, every school we attend, every item of clothing we put on, every substance we take into our bodies, every piece of paperwork that ever gets printed about us, and every look another person ever gives us. And so we make due with rewriting and recombining those frameworks as best we can. It should come as no surprise that those us who break away from the binary have to experiment and revise how we understand ourselves quite a bit — sometimes getting things “wrong,” sometimes searching forever for the semblance of something “right.” Sometimes reveling in the “wrongness” of all the available options is kind of the point.

I wrote about my detransition, retransition, and the eternal dissatisfaction that is probably the corest truth of my identity. It's free to read or have narrated to you on my Substack.

[bitchesgetriches]

{ MASTERPOST } Everything You Need to Know about Repairing Our Busted-Ass World

On poverty:

Starting from nothing

How To Start at Rock Bottom: Welfare Programs and the Social Safety Net 

How to Save for Retirement When You Make Less Than $30,000 a Year

Ask the Bitches: “Is It Too Late to Get My Financial Shit Together?“

Understanding why people are poor

It’s More Expensive to Be Poor Than to Be Rich

Why Are Poor People Poor and Rich People Rich?

On Financial Discipline, Generational Poverty, and Marshmallows

Bitchtastic Book Review: Hand to Mouth by Linda Tirado

Is Gentrification Just Artisanal, Small-Batch Displacement of the Poor?

Coronavirus Reveals America’s Pre-existing Conditions, Part 1: Healthcare, Housing, and Labor Rights

Developing compassion for poor people

The Latte Factor, Poor Shaming, and Economic Compassion

Ask the Bitches: “How Do I Stop Myself from Judging Homeless People?“

The Subjectivity of Wealth, Or: Don’t Tell Me What’s Expensive

A Little Princess: Intersectional Feminist Masterpiece?

If You Can’t Afford to Tip 20%, You Can’t Afford to Dine Out

Correcting income inequality

1 Easy Way All Allies Can Help Close the Gender and Racial Pay Gap

One Reason Women Make Less Money? They’re Afraid of Being Raped and Killed.

Raising the Minimum Wage Would Make All Our Lives Better

Are Unions Good or Bad?

On intersectional social issues:

Reproductive rights

On Pulling Weeds and Fighting Back: How (and Why) to Protect Abortion Rights

How To Get an Abortion 

Blood Money: Menstrual Products for Surviving Your Period While Poor

You Don’t Have to Have Kids

Gender equality

1 Easy Way All Allies Can Help Close the Gender and Racial Pay Gap 

The Pink Tax, Or: How I Learned to Love Smelling Like “Bearglove”

Our Single Best Piece of Advice for Women (and Men) on International Women’s Day

Bitchtastic Book Review: The Feminist Financial Handbook by Brynne Conroy

Sexual Harassment: How to Identify and Fight It in the Workplace 

Queer issues

Queer Finance 101: Ten Ways That Sexual and Gender Identity Affect Finances

Leaving Home before 18: A Practical Guide for Cast-Offs, Runaways, and Everybody in Between

Racial justice

The Financial Advantages of Being White

Woke at Work: How to Inject Your Values into Your Boring, Lame-Ass Job

The New Jim Crow, by Michelle Alexander: A Bitchtastic Book Review

Something Is Wrong in Personal Finance. Here’s How To Make It More Inclusive.

The Biggest Threat to Black Wealth Is White Terrorism

Coronavirus Reveals America’s Pre-existing Conditions, Part 2: Racial and Gender Inequality 

10 Rad Black Money Experts to Follow Right the Hell Now 

Youth issues

What We Talk About When We Talk About Student Loans

The Ugly Truth About Unpaid Internships

Ask the Bitches: “I Just Turned 18 and My Parents Are Kicking Me Out. How Do I Brace Myself?”

Identifying and combatting abuse

When Money is the Weapon: Understanding Intimate Partner Financial Abuse

Are You Working on the Next Fyre Festival?: Identifying a Toxic Workplace

Ask the Bitches: “How Do I Say ‘No’ When a Loved One Asks for Money… Again?”

Ask the Bitches: I Was Guilted Into Caring for a Sick, Abusive Parent. Now What?

On mental health:

Understanding mental health issues

How Mental Health Affects Your Finances

Stop Recommending Therapy Like It’s a Magic Bean That’ll Grow Me a Beanstalk to Neurotypicaltown

Bitchtastic Book Review: Kurt Vonnegut’s Galapagos and Your Big Brain

Ask the Bitches: “How Do I Protect My Own Mental Health While Still Helping Others?”

Coping with mental health issues

{ MASTERPOST } Everything You Need to Know about Self-Care

My 25 Secrets to Successfully Working from Home with ADHD 

Our Master List of 100% Free Mental Health Self-Care Tactics 

On saving the planet:

Changing the system

Don’t Boo, Vote: If You Don’t Vote, No One Can Hear You Scream

Ethical Consumption: How to Pollute the Planet and Exploit Labor Slightly Less

The Anti-Consumerist Gift Guide: I Have No Gift to Bring, Pa Rum Pa Pum Pum

Season 1, Episode 4: “Capitalism Is Working for Me. So How Could I Hate It?”

Coronavirus Reveals America’s Pre-existing Conditions, Part 1: Healthcare, Housing, and Labor Rights 

Coronavirus Reveals America’s Pre-existing Conditions, Part 2: Racial and Gender Inequality 

Shopping smarter

You Deserve Cheap Toilet Paper, You Beautiful Fucking Moon Goddess

You Are above Bottled Water, You Elegant Land Mermaid

Fast Fashion: Why It’s Fucking up the World and How To Avoid It

You Deserve Cheap, Fake Jewelry… Just Like Coco Chanel

6 Proven Tactics for Avoiding Emotional Impulse Spending

Join the Bitches on Patreon

[calware]

JOHN: that's kind of a weird question, but sure, i'll answer, haha.

JOHN: it's kind of funny, when i was a kid it really confused me when dirk would talk about "ante diulivan terminology" and all that. that stuff seemed so important to me when i was younger, like if someone was gay or what ever, but it really doesn't matter after all this time has passed. being a god for hundreds of years really puts stuff into perspective, i guess. JOHN: but my identity has definitely changed since i was that age. JOHN: back then, manhood always felt like an inevitability. i was going to become a man, like my dad, like every other boy does. and i was okay with that, in the same way we're all okay with breathing. like, what else is there to do? we don't question it. JOHN: so it took me a REALLY long time to really get that it wasn't that way, and that there were no inevitabilities. like my whole life i'm on this path walking toward a destination, but after walking it for a hundred years, it starts dawning on you that there is no destination on that path. JOHN: just the journey. JOHN: you can't see it but i am making a very wise expression right now. JOHN: not to be confused with harry anderson, a very different wise guy who has stood the test of time. JOHN: just wanted you to know that. JOHN: any way, after that, i started to understand that i could do things on my own terms. i'm not bound to masculinity, or anything at all really. JOHN: i don't know if it has something to do with my classpect, but i like to imagine it's like the breeze. it just does its own thing, traveling regardless of any path. it's freeing. JOHN: so i don't care what you call me, really. JOHN: for gender stuff, i mean. i'm still not attracted to guys. JOHN: but i don't care if you call me straight or a lesbian? so i guess i don't really care about that either. JOHN: it's more complicated than that, but i'm not going to get into it when none of it is really accurate to me anyway. JOHN: like i said, it doesn't feel important anymore.

[ch4liz4rd-jpeg]

i wanna speak to the void abt gwens universe's colour symbolism and how it links to trans identity so here it is, feel free to read

the colours used in gwens universe - primarily in interactions with her dad are pinkish and bluish tones. the animators used pink as a way to show honesty, candidness and openness expressed, whilst the blue served to show isolation and dishonesty. ill discuss why i think so below

in the scene where gwen returns home after quitting the band, gwen is coloured in blue tones.

shes hiding her identity as spiderwoman from her dad and isolating herself in her room.

her dad tries to open up and talk to her about the case, hence the warm/orangey tones. but gwen remains blue, shutting him out. but when they hug, gwen is more purplish, showing a hint of her opening up.

the other scene i think is especially significant with her colour symbolism is the confrontation after the guggenheim sequence.

when gwen comes out as spiderwoman, the colours start to shift.

gwen is now candid, shes come out to her dad and is trying to make him listen and understand her. but just like gwens blues became pinks, george's pinks shift to blue.

the last image in this set is actually so chilling, the fear in his eyes hurt me deeply 💀 anyway

george hides behind his cop persona, avoiding and isolating from gwens confession to him, which is supported by the colour used to portray him.

all of this builds to what i think theyre trying to say about gwen being transgender. the typical gender to colour association is pink girl and blue boy. the choice of colour is deliberate here as much as it usually is with the spiderverse team. why use these two colours in this specific way? a lot of people who dont think gwen is a trans girl will say "well those two colours dont have to represent trans identity" they dont, but the details say that the spiderverse team (once again) is intentionally using them to talk about trans identity and coming out.

i think that by putting the "protect trans kids" poster in gwens room, and the trans flag patch on officer stacy's jacket show that theyre not just randomly picking the colours, but that they made the conscious choice for the boy associated colour - blue - to show hiding and isolation. whilst pink is about honesty and openness whilst being the girl associated colour. i think that the use of these colours in this way is saying that gwen is a trans woman.

and if ur still not convinced well

i havent even talked about the DIALOGUE in this movie and how trans it is. her arc (and miles' arc) across the two movies is such a queer coded story. "can i tell my dad, will he approve of me? will he still love me the same?" like it couldnt be more obvious. someone also mentioned somewhere that the side shave is also significant? like when she has the long hair facing toward the viewers its the same as the pink being used to show honesty and linked to femininity, and the short side almost like a masc haircut and being of the opposite meaning when its facing the audience. idk abt that one but its an interesting thought! that as well as her like having the same shoe size as hobie even tho that man is so fucking tall - yk this cuz her chucks are stated to be his.

anyways if u got that far, thanks???

and if u still deny that gwen is trans then idk what to say, u prob hate trans ppl

gwen is trans, they dont need to explicitly say it inorder for it to be true, just bc they didnt say gwen is trans, or miles is somehow queer, or hobie is gender non conformist, doesnt mean theyre cishet.

[batbeato]

having watched I Saw the TV Glow recently, I'm... not sure people understand how much of it is metaphor.

like, yes. Owen is literally trans because Owen is literally Isabel. but the Midnight Realm is a metaphor for cissexual society; the Midnight Realm is not real because cissexual society is constructed on the false premises of patriarchy and white supremacy and so on, such as the false gender binary that Owen faces in the movie: men like women, The Pink Opaque is for girls, etc.

similarly, The Pink Opaque is a metaphor for queerness and the queer community, which is seen as false and artificial by cissexual society and does not conform to the 'rules' created by it (for example, the fantasy/magic elements). even there, however, the threat of the cissexual society is present in Mr. Melancholy, whose plan to use the hearts of 100 awkward kids connects back to how cissexual society abuses and makes use of any who don't fit in. Isabel and Tara's hearts being in an industrial freezer reflects the large-scale societal nature of their oppression.

the need to kill their Midnight Realm selves is because their queer selves have already been killed. in this metaphorical murder of their false cissexual identities they are able to be reborn as their true selves. all identities conferred upon people in cissexual society are based on false presumptions and enforcement of gender and sex binaries. the coffin is not meant to reflect actual suicide. leaving cissexual society and embracing your true self is as "crazy" as suicide. and, of course, when people come out as queer, their families may mourn their false cissexual identities rather than acknowledging their living family.

the ending of the movie is about looking at what's inside you and then still needing to apologize for it. not because Owen will never transition but because it is a slow process that takes a long time. also note how Owen mentions trying a new medication - still insisting on a pathological wrongness. the director went over the ending in interviews as well. not that authorial intent is everything, but this is a movie clearly shaped by it in every detail.

there's more I don't really see people talk about. exchanging the old TV for the new, and specifically showing it being LG, shows the swap of the real for the artificial and glossy. the arcade has Mr. Melancholy theming to reflect how society makes light of oppression and turns it into a simplified narrative where the oppression is already over, and then commercializes it. the birthday party has a shot of the "Boy" on the hat, further showing how it is a gendered event that reinforces the horror of the Midnight Realm. the fact that Tara leaving her heart behind with Isabel's is because we are not free until we are all free.

[worlds-worst-ships]

Welcome to the home of the world's worst ships!

Hello there, I'm Jack Goodwin and this absolute affront to the natural order that I call a blog is where I take a break from the insane content I normally make where you only have one job... to have fun.

Wanna stay up to date on my video/.streaming content? Go follow @maji-man. Or just click HERE to see all my socials in one list.

Here's a post where I explain the point of the blog. I highly suggest you read it twice or more to make sure you understand.

Be warned: If you neglect this post and run your mouth in my comments, chances are I'll make fun of you in my videos and streams. Now then, down to business.

Are there two characters that absolutely should not be anywhere near each other, to the point where one should be getting a restraining order? Are there pairings in fiction that you couldn't be paid a quadrillion rubles to come up with on your own? Are you sick of all these picket-fence, vanilla pudding, ERENxMIKASA snoozefests that plague the internet? If so, you've come to the right place. Get your kissy-kissy lips on, find a slightly uncomfortable chair and LETS GET SHIPPING!!!

I have only FOUR RULES HERE:

You can say whatever you want here, so long as;

1. Its not discriminatory

Any sort of phobia/ism here is not welcome. This blog is for everyone, regardless of ethnicity, orientation or gender identity.

2. Its a joke,

and clearly a joke. We poke fun at each other here. Lets keep it fun.

3. Its true.

I have the power of google, and any misinformation will be swiftly corrected. When you are corrected, either accept it or be blocked. Misinformation and straight up lies are not welcome here.

4: You speak with the understanding that these characters aren't real people, nor do they represent them

These are cartoons. Works of fiction. They're not real. Please keep any deep-seated obsession with character's ethnicity, sexuality, age, background etc to yourself. Acting holier-than-thou and making that the subject of your personal issue with my posts doesn't make you a hero, nor is that the groundbreaking opinion you think it is, it just makes the jokes awkward and uncomfortable for many people here.

Aaaaanyways, now we've got that out of the way (and yes, I will add more rules as the need arises, don't test me)

I'll mostly be using the absolute maelstrom of doodoo I call a brain to come up with ideas, but if you'd like to submit some ideas of your own, feel free. Send it to my ASK box. Nothing illegal, past a certain point, please.

Oh, and the ask criteria/format is in the linked post below. (Anonymous asks are and will always be turned off, cuz I know that this site is full of pussies who can't talk shit on main)

JUST IN CASE YOU DIDN'T READ THAT POST, AS I KNOW MOST OF YOU WON'T: If you do not follow that exact format, I WILL DELETE YOUR ASKS ON SIGHT.

I REPEAT: I will not even CONSIDER posting them.

FUN FACT: After having this blog for multiple months with anonymous asks turned off, I haven't gotten a single hate message (other than that one kid who got made a fool out of). This is why they're off, in case you wondered.

Its also worth mentioning, some of you are new to the concept of comedy, so I'll write it nice and big for you (if you know what a crackship/joke is, then skip this paragraph): THIS IS A JOKE BLOG. A GIMMICK BLOG. A COMEDY BLOG. I DO NOT CARE EVEN SLIGHTLY ABOUT SHIPPING AS A CONCEPT MUCH LESS DO I EVEN KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT 9/10 OF THE CHARACTERS YOU'LL SEE HERE, SO IM JUST MAKING J O K E S. IF YOU ARE OFFENDED, THEN YOU HAVE KNOWINGLY CHOSEN TO BE OFFENDED WHICH IS ENTIRELY YOUR FAULT. THANK YOU :)

I REPEAT this is a CRACKSHIP BLOG, so if you're deeply hurt by any of my polls, just know that nothing here reflects me as a person because none of what I post is serious. If anything you see after reading that causes you any emotional distress, it IS NOT my fault. Its funny, but its not my fault.

[sanitymakesposts]

We have a family friend who's a first grade teacher, whose students were born in 2016 or 2017. For fun I was googling what like, pop culture events happened in 2015 that they weren't alive for, and most of the stuff felt old. Left shark, the blue-black/white-gold dress, the ALS ice bucket challenge... And Obergefell V Hodges. The US Supreme Court case that struck down state bans on gay marriage, effectively legalizing it across the continent. On the day this post goes up, it'll be nine years exactly. Those kids are the first in her classroom to have always lived in an America where their uncle and his 'roommate' could be legally wed. Not an America free from homophobia, prejudice, or discrimination -- Just one where two consenting adults were allowed to call each other their spouse. Nine years.

The fight is not over. The battle is not won. Homophobia, transphobia, erasure of gender and sexual identity -- It's rampant within America, within our world. Visible, and invisible. I don't care if you don't 'understand' he/him lesbians. I don't care if you have strong opinions on the labels of bisexual and pansexual, and who is allowed to use them and when. People want us dead. We need to stick together. This is a fight that started before we were born, and we will fight until we die.

Nine years.

Happy Pride.

[mistymeow69]

the thing wrong with the radqueer community, as a semi-active member.

*THIS IS ENTIRELY MEANT TO BE RESPECTFUL AND JUST TALKING ABOUT MY THOUGHTS, PLEASE DON'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY

The thing that I believe is harming the rq community and its reputation, as well as driving away a lot of newer members, and tearing apart the community of the veteran members, is the controversy over what is and isn't a transid, a transid vs a fantasy/desire.

More specifically, I find it kind of strange how people take everything they want and put the trans- prefix on it, make it a flag, and suddenly it's valid. Not to say all identities aren't valid and subjective, but I just feel like a lot of people don't understand what it means to be transid.

Like, for example, transst4lked. Do you feel dysphoria over not being st4lked? Do you feel genuine euphoria and like you're truly yourself when you're st4lked? Or is it just something you want to happen? Are you ACTUALLY transitioning to it in any way? Is it really a transid if there is no trans- in the first place? Have you felt this way for a long time, even throughout childhood, or did you just read one Colleen Hoover book and immediately run to Tumblr to tarnish the rq community?

This is also a part of the controversy surrounding transharmed identities. There's no real way to tell if someone ACTUALLY has that illness or trauma or whatever intertwined with their identity, and they truly understand the struggles of the people who naturally have it, and if they can actually see themselves with it and happier with it in the future, or if they're just romanticizing, faking it, and/or just a kid who doesn't know what it's like to feel the need to transition in any way and forgets about it in a month.

This is not to say all transid or transharmed people are like this, I'm transid myself, I'm just saying it's a big problem nobody talks about because the rq community is supposed to be supportive of everyone, so it's filled with silence when it comes to things like this, nobody wants to be the one to judge.

I just feel like a lot of people don't understand the concept of a transid, to transition to something else, to feel as though you are something else inside and should've been born as that and you'd feel so much more fulfilled the more you could live your life like that, whether it be gender, race, age, etc. I really don't want people going around misusing our labels to feel special then going and abandoning it in a month or two.

Now, as I say myself, there's always room to learn about things you don't understand. You shouldn't go and directly tell people they're invalid without at least trying to have a look on the inside. So, if anyone finds this sort of thing applies to you, feel free to help me understand in the comments. But if you just feel attacked, then you're proving my point.

So, there's my 4 am rant on why I believe trendhoppers are tearing apart the radqueer community.

[metalphoenix]

Super heroes as an allegory for Queer and Trans Narratives

Forgive me if this is a little rambley I have already taken my sleep meds.

I was just thinking about why I like super heroes so much (they have been my special interested for probably around 8 years now) and I think because they can be seen as a queer allegory.

You have a separate life, one that you have to keep separate from your day to day life. That very much feels like being in the closet/mostly in the closet. That secrete life comes with a different name and different clothes. Trans people or Drag Artists anyone? Most of the time super heroes find each other and form a tight community because no civilian will understand their experiences. This mirrors queer people finding and building community. In both Marvel and DC older heroes will take younger ones under their wings to teach them and give them community. Queer people have taken me under their wing and I've done the same for others.

Theres also the isolation. Most heroes are only "out" as heroes to other heroes and maybe a few civilians they really truly trust. Or maybe no one knows. The knowledge that you have a huge secret. You are hiding a big part of your self. Maybe the part that is more you than the you everyone else knows. You know that if you tell or someone finds out, everything will change. Others may or may not except that part of you. You may loose people you love. Maybe the people who are close to you are pro heroes (Ned from Spiderman) or maybe they are not (Foggy from Daredevil) but either way there will always be a possibility of rejection.

The danger of being a hero also lines up. They wear masks, cowls, helmets, disguises etc, to hide their identities because if people knew they and the people they love would be in danger. Heroes who's identities are known (either by their own volition or someone else's) are also in danger. Batman keeps his and his kids identities under lock and key because everything goes wrong when the wrong person finds out. Jessica Jones does not because she's tired of hiding. Queer people weather in or out of the closet are also in danger of being outed. I've been outed before and it ruined one relationship and almost ruined another. I've lost friends and family because of being queer and nonbinary and I'm from a pretty liberal area. Just look up death, houselessness, rape, unemployment, suicide statistic etc. All of them are higher for queer, trans and intersex folks.

The last parallel I can think of is how both super heroes and queer/trans people exist outside of the system/establishment. Heroes and vigilantes work outside of the justice system because in most cases because they see it doesn't work. They are usually at risk of arrest by cops or in danger from the government (the Sokovia accords are a good example of this). Queer people exist outside of many establishments: The gender binary, amatonormativity, heteronormativity, the sex binary, etc. Queer people are also at greater risk of arrest and experiencing police violence.

IDK these are just my thoughts. I hope everything made sense. If you can think of any other ways super hero narratives mirror lgbtq experiences feel free to put them in the notes! (or not its whatever)

[thegreatpapaya666]

I'M COMING OUT (a third time) I WANT THE WORLD TO KNOW I GOT TO SOMETHING SOMETHING SOMETHING (i forgot the words to the song lmao i heard it in trolls that one time)

hewwo bestie boos

so first i was like "hey y'all i'm pansexual yippee" and that was super fun

but then i got a bf and i was like "fuck this shit" and after a whole bunch of mental breakdances and introspection shit i was like "i'm pansexual and aromantic" so slay

and it was nice because when you're in the Gay Neurodivergent Theater Kid Friend Group™ when you tell your besties how gay you are all they do is laugh and make you a pride pin and doodle you doing shit corresponding to your sexuality (for instance when my bestie came out as ace we drew him throwing garlic bread at some badly drawn dicks it was a whole thing lol) and nobody really gives a shit besides for using the correct pronouns and lovingly making fun of your sexuality

but then i had even more mental breakdances and introspection shit and i was like "wtf??? i thought i maxxed out my gayness" (gay is an umbrella term here) and then i realized i'm ace. but then i was sorta kinda cornfuzzled (that means confused in papaya lingo) bc like how can i be aroace and pan? huh? and then i kept on thinking:

i experience some romantic attraction.

i experience some sexual attraction.

and when i do experience that (however rare it is), it can be for anybody regardless of gender.

so my bestie told me about oriented aroace where you're completely aro and completely ace and you feel the other kinds of attraction that aren't romantic or sexual toward a certain gender and feel like that fits your identity (feel free to correct me on any of this i suck at explaining things and i may have interpreted this badly)

and then there's also angled aroace which is basically the same thing except for aro-spec and ace-spec rather than 100% no romantic & sexual attraction

but my bestie also said that the dude who coined the term "oriented aroace" was sorta kinda gatekeeping and they didn't want grey aroaces invading their term and they weren't "real" aroaces or something whatever and it was super dumb and icky and I don't fully understand it

in conclusion: i think i like pan angled aroace! so I'm using that term now!

however, a lot of people really don't know what that term means. so i don't really know what to tell them cause i suck even more at explaining things irl than online. and i also don't know how to come out to my parents. but i also hate my mom so maybe she doesn't deserve to know. welp that's a conversation for another day.

so thanks for listening and bye bestiesssss <333

edit: i edited the title bc i forgot how to spell for a lil bit :c

[honeymoonblues]

Little White Lies

George Weasley x GN!Reader

Summary: George asks you to help him study for potions, but you suspect that he doesn't really need it. (Gender neutral reader).

Word count: 1.3k

A/N: Some fluff with my favourite Weasley twin. I wrote the reader hinting that they are not in gryffindor, but it's not specified anywhere. Let me know if there are any spelling errors, English is not my first language.

It took you 15 minutes into the first study session to realize that George Weasley didn’t need help with potions in the slightest.

However, you said nothing.

‘Why is he doing this?’ and other million doubts roamed your mind. There was no way he actually needed tutoring, why on earth would he waste his free time asking stupid questions?

No, they weren’t stupid, not at all. That’s what gave him away. Someone who didn’t get the subject would ask simpler questions, or wouldn’t have enough information to even ask! He’d sit there and claim not to understand, then utter the most brilliant question ever. The kind that gets resolved with one simple answer, or that can only be formulated when one actually comprehends.

Even after this sharp demonstration of knowledge, George would look directly into your eyes and lie!

“I don’t think I got it, think you could explain that again?” All with a bashful expression and a sheepish grin.

If anyone asked, you would completely deny it, but he got you giggling almost the whole time you were together. He’d put on an exaggerated grimace every time you would go over any formula, and made a fantastic imitation of Snape that got both of you scolded by Madame Pince for laughing too loud, and disturbing the peace of the library.

There were also your blushing cheeks, which you hoped he didn’t notice, whenever he’d get too close to you. You were so transparently awkward, but you couldn’t help it! Not with those eyes looking attentively, with him seemingly hanging to your every word, and it didn’t help the fact that he spoke so softly, so smoothly.

“Why! Why is he doing this? It doesn’t make any sense! Do you think he’s planning to prank me or something?” Your friends were getting tired of hearing you complain, because nothing they said would get through that stubborn mind of yours.

“What if he just likes you?” They’d offer, and you would scoff.

“I surely hope not!” Lies, big, tremendous lies. “Maybe I am overthinking this, maybe he does need help with potions, right?”

Then, your friends would just roll their eyes and let you be. It had been almost a week since your study session and you just wouldn’t shut up. Mostly because it was almost time for your second library meeting.

When you caught yourself in the mirror, completely engrossed in styling your hair perfectly, you almost gasped. Could it be possible that, just maybe, you had a tiny, minuscule crush on George Weasley?

While still making sure your hair and outfit looked good, you groaned, suddenly remembering that this was not the first time you fancied him.

Back in first year, getting used to Hogwarts was a terrible challenge for every new kid, but especially for muggleborns like you. The moving stairs were particularly tough. Thankfully, you crossed paths with another kid who was happy to help you. While his twin laughed cheerfully, George was quick to come for your aid and stop you from missing our hallway by the constant moving staircase. You had transfiguration together the whole year, and that’s how long it took you to learn to differentiate the twins physically.

If they were talking with you, you could definitely tell them apart, because Fred didn’t beam at you like George did. Still, you had many classes together until you discovered the little mole on his neck, and the slightly crooked nose on his brother that distinguished them.

That’s when your little crush began to flourish. Suddenly the twins were incredibly different from each other, and no other boy compared to George, not even his own identical brother. But you were eleven at the time, by the beginning of second year you didn’t see each other as much anymore. Inevitably, your tiny infatuation became nothing more than that and stayed in the past. Or so you thought.

You looked at your blushing face one more time in the mirror before you left your room, and directed yourself to the library. Walking purposely slow, little hopeful thoughts formed in your head. And you giggled at the thought that maybe he did fancy you. But you stopped in your tracks, then shook your head, telling yourself that you were getting way too unrealistic for your own good.

There still was a certain awkwardness in the way you spoke and explained things to him, but you were a little more comfortable than the last time. He grinned whenever you chuckled, and you’d joke more freely, which seemed to distract him a little.

While preparing to leave the library, having studied much less than the first session, he observed you quietly for a moment. When you raised your eyebrows at him, George finally spoke.

“Do you remember first year? We used to be together all the time.” He grinned, his cheeks taking a little pink colour which you didn’t notice because of the rising heat of your own face.

Before you could answer him, he spoke again.

“You were incredibly bright even back then, and I was…” Chuckling a little, you interrupted him.

“And you were top of the class on charms, remember? Before you enchanted all of Flitwick’s books to fly out of the window.” While trying to muffle your giggles behind your hands, George complained.

“In my defence, that was Fred’s idea!” But he couldn’t contain his laughter either, and he had the biggest grin on his face. “I had the biggest crush on you too.”

Everything went quiet after his words, and you looked at him with your eyes wide open. After an awkward minute of silence, you mumbled.

“Shit, me too.” And you both broke into a fit of giggles again, earning a loud “Shh!” from Madame Pince. Continuing your conversation in hushed tones, he muttered:

“Wait, no way. And you never said anything!”

“It’s not like you said something either, Weasley!”

“I was just a stupid little kid, what did you expect?”

“George, we are the same age!”

“Yeah, yeah. But you are the clever one here, darling.”

Without even stopping to think about what you were going to say, you opened your mouth and pointed at him accusatorily.

“You don’t even need tutoring in potions! You could teach me, in fact!”

Your hand flew to cover your mouth as soon as you were done talking, your cheeks starting to burn, and your gaze averting George’s eyes trying not to expose yourself any more than you had already.

After a prolonged uncomfortable silence, you spoke.

“Or that’s what it seemed… I never actually got to see you in a potions class, but you learn really fast, and also you make the brightest questions. Not to say that it’s bad to ask for help with studying, that’s not what I mean, of course! But since you are so good with inventing products and also, you have to know a lot of potions for the pranks you pull, too… It’s just…” Without any breath left from your quick rambling, you looked up to him for the first time in a while, to see him with a genuine bashful expression.

Slowly, a charming little smile appeared on his face, and he looked deep into your eyes. He caught you. It was clear in your gaze, in your voice, in the way you twitched your hands nervously. It was now or never, he thought.

“I heard you were helping a girl with potions, and I thought what better excuse to spend some time with my sweet crush, don’t you think?”

It took you a moment to process what he had said, then you let out a little humming sound, like in a trance. Shifting your eyes from the table, to the mole on his neck.

“I also wanted to check if you were as good with potions as everybody said, or if you were just bluffing.”

Finally reacting, you feigned offense and hit his arm.

“Get out of here, George Weasley.”

And he beamed, just like he did back in first year.

[chicken-wayng]

rather than handing Rhaenyra everything she wants on a silver platter?

No offence anon but I don’t think you quite grasp what was happening in 2x08 if this was your ultimate conclusion.

First of all you need to understand two fundamental things about the HotD’s writers:

They’ve put Rhaenyra on a pedestal

They don’t like Alicent

Alicent can’t make any demands that negatively affect Rhaenyra, she cannot request an alternative which would mean Jace is disinherited, she can’t do anything that is ultimately anti TB because that’s not the show the writers have made!

Watch 2x08 with the writers’ logic that Rhaenyra has never done anything wrong in her entire life, you’re not even allowed to ask she punish Daemon because that would suggest her welcoming him back with open arms was wrong.

After you’ve done that tell me if you really think they’d have Alicent stand up for herself and her family?

Yup! Alicent cannot stand up for herself or make an autonomous (I think that's the word, if not excuse me I legit just woke up) decision. The first one she made was to wear green, then to support her father's (and her own after a while) ambition, then lastly to go to Nyra. All of her decisions have literally bit her in the ass. I think she's very good as representation for the lesbians that are born into a religion/society that gas lights them. Nyra's never really made a decision without fully thinking about it (She's a blonde that gives us other blondes that reputation 🤣💜) but has always thought she's been the one in control. She's in control of her gender crisis, her sexual identity, so obviously she's got everything figured out. She's a very good rep for the masses that grew up in a religious place, but didn't notice how much it had an effect on them until it was too late and an irreversible issue was caused. Neither of them are truly free, both birds in a cage thinking their song is the prettiest because they've never heard how happy and free the birds outside sound. I cannot to see Nyra's religious madness and for them to knock her off her pedestal (I'm relate most to her btw, shes literally tloml so I'm saying this as a person whose gone through a similar type of religious breakdown), I literally need it if I don't get anything else on my Xmas list but I got that I'd be okay.

Thanksya for putting it into a good explanation for me. I do think prev.anon was talking about how Nyra gets everything on a silver platter, not Alicent. However I like their metaphor because following it I can say that while Nyra's always had a feast in front of her, imagine it's like yellowjackets. In front of her is the young version of her, dead and cooked, smelling of fire and blood. A feast for everyone to enjoy. Behind each person is a vulture. Just cuz it's a pretty platter don't mean the vultures aren't gonna eat. But they're not the ones feasting is literally everyone from Viserys to Daemon to her kids to Otto to her council to the men that trick her and her Aegon into coming to Dragonstone for her death and even Allie. Or even the food is rotten if that's too vulgar, but in both arts (the yellowjackets cannibal feast or the rotten smorgasbord) I'm picturing she's eating with a blind fold.

Anyways sorry for this grammarless spiel, thanksya'll for sharing your opinion and letting me share mine!

[sponfawn]

MTH Meta - Sisterhood of the PPGs

For anon who asked for a post on the Girls' relationships, specifically wrt Buttercup not opening up to her sisters, Blossom not telling Buttercup about what happened with Brick, and why they never actually address their issues. Hope you like long posts.

Full disclosure, I am an only child and my friends who had siblings mostly had brothers or a large age gap with their sisters, so if anyone else has other thoughts, pls feel free to share!

Blossom and Buttercup are really interesting to me. In some ways they have extremely similar motivations, it's just that the methods and approaches they use are near opposites. Ive said in another post that they both try to prevent being objectified by dressing and acting in certain ways. But to go into this further, they both have quite a bit of internalized misogyny behind that. They are both very conscious of their reputations and take measures to maintain them, and they both have self-imposed ideas about what it means about them if they don't reinforce those roles/expectations. Those roles and reputations are very tied up in their identities. They are both proud ppl who like to keep their emotional lives quite private, and who see certain displays of emotion as shows of weakness. Where Blossom uses self control, rationality, and "maturity" to hide her vulnerability, Buttercup uses anger, violence, and occasionally humor.

I think I will start with Buttercup, because I was a lot like her for many years, and I think I understand her better than Blossom.

Buttercup has built her very public reputation on being the "toughest" of the Girls since they were 5 (really since they were created). Since they were kids, she has teased Bubbles for being openly emotional and sensitive. And I think for many people, especially kids, when you have a reputation for something it can be very difficult to step outside of those expectations. It can be easier if one has a change of environment where people don't have preconceptions of who you are or what you're like. But Buttercup has never had that luxury, because as a public figure who has only ever lived in Townsville, everyone knows who she is and they all have certain expectations of what she's like.

This is also true of Blossom and Bubbles, but I think at least in Bubbles' case her expectations are a bit less restraining. At least emotionally. People tend to underestimate her, but she is comfortable with putting them in their place when she feels it's needed (see the face she made that actually scared Brick when she visited the Boys' apartment for the first time). Her reputation is being cute and "the joy and the laughter" of the Girls, and while that can also be restrictive in theory, we don't really see that holding her back from getting mad or upset.

Brene Brown has a theory on shame (through a v binary gender lens but I think it's applicable here). For most (cishet) men, she uses a metaphor of a box. Inside the box are behaviors/etc that a person considers acceptable in terms of masculinity, and behaviors outside of the box tend to elicit shame because they do not adhere to the perceived "rules" of masculinity and thus show "weakness". Obviously Buttercup is not a cishet man, and I'm not sure that I would go so far as to say she experiences shame outside that box. But her reputation and internalized misogyny act similarly, as a box outside of which certain behaviors are "weak" and seen as embarrassing. We can see this when she tells Butch to act like she didn't cry, when she thinks about how stupid it was for her to get a dress with Mitch, when she is at the kitchen store and hopes that no one she knows sees her there. She has a set of self-imposed "rules" about what she "shouldn't" show to other people that ends up restricting her a lot in terms of her ability to be vulnerable with others. With Mitch, she was able to break some of those "rules" because he knew her in a way she thought her sisters and others didn't, and because he reinforced her private (albeit limited) vulnerability with approval and affection.

Buttercup communicates more through actions than words. It may partly be just a natural preference but for some ppl it's because verbal communication can feel more vulnerable or difficult, because it is so specific and straightforward, if that makes sense. In the og show, Buttercup even has trouble with the vulnerability of just saying sorry. Angry confrontations and physical fights are her forte. Otherwise emotional confrontations? Not so much. We see this with Mitch and the guys in the earlier chapters, and even with Butch when she feels like a moment is too intimate and distances herself.

She has a sort of fear of other people perceiving her vulnerability to begin with, and i think in some ways that aversion may be even stronger or more deep seated with her sisters. If her experience was anything like mine, showing signs of mildly uncharacteristic softness may have been met with teasing or may have been brought up later at inopportune moments. We know that Bubbles teases her, and while idt Bubbles would do so if she thought Buttercup was genuinely hurt and vulnerable (though she didn't pull punches around Buttercup's breakup on their first day of the winter semester), small jabs like that over the years can go a long way to reinforcing some behaviors and discouraging certain others. There's also the fact that sometimes the people who have known you intimately your whole life can be the hardest to break behavioral patterns with. Our brains create these sort of well-worn paths with thought and behavioral patterns we use often, and those are the paths we automatically take. And if those paths have been reinforced for your whole life, it's especially hard to break out of. It's definitely possible, but one has to work hard for it.

All of this is to say - there are over a decade of precedents that likely reinforced Buttercup's struggles with verbal communication and vulnerability, and a lot of it is tied up with her sense of self and others' expectations. Teens in general also tend to be less than amazing at communication especially if they haven't had therapy. At the moment, there are more reasons than not why Buttercup doesn't confide in or bring up her complicated relationship with her sisters and the ways she feels hurt by them. As frank and unfiltered as she can be on the surface, she is very avoidant and cagey about her internal experiences when it doesn't directly involve anger.

Blossom, interestingly enough, has a LOT of the same issues with public perception, identity, and vulnerability. Going back to Brene Brown, she uses a metaphor of a web to describe cishet women's experiences, where there are many things that one has to juggle perfectly that intersect with various roles in one's identity (eg one's roles as a parent, spouse, employee, daughter, friend, etc). Perceived shortfalls in any of these areas can trigger shame associated with one or more of the various roles one has tied to their identity. That's not worded the best, but I digress. Again I don't necessarily think it goes as far as shame for Blossom but it's certainly connected to guilt for her. Incidentally, the way to combat shame according to Brene Brown? Honest vulnerability, which fosters connection to others.

Blossom holds herself to a standard above everyone else, including her sisters, because she has inhabited the "leader" role since she was created. She takes a lot of pride in that role, and strives to live up to it, including with regards to shows of emotion. She is very concerned with appearances (I don't mean this in a judgy way) in the sense that she is always thinking about how others perceive her, how she can be a good role model, how she needs to have restraint and self control, how she "shouldn't" slip up or make mistakes because she's not human, she's "better". And this is a role and an identity she has held for so long that she doesn't really know who she is without Townsville to protect (see her specific anxiety about college visits and her future outside of Townsville).

So while it says that Bubbles and Blossom are closer in general because they shared more interests growing up, after Brick rejected her, I don't think she wanted anyone to see her crying. I don't think it was just Buttercup she didn't want seeing, but Bubbles happened to walk in while she was crying. She was trying to muffle her sobs with her pillow, was trying to calm down before anyone came up, but Bubbles found her when she couldn't deny that she was still actively trying to stifle her sobs. I think letting Bubbles comfort her was already a big step for Blossom in terms of emotional vulnerability, but it was made a little bit easier by the fact that it was Bubbles who isn't ashamed to cry and talks openly about her feelings.

When Buttercup saw her at school, she had already kind of calmed down from crying and was getting ready to go home. She was also at school, a setting where she is always "on" and doesn't allow herself to be vulnerable, so she was inclined to deny that something was really wrong - it was embarrassing to her. Buttercup coming into the room added more tension to an already raw situation in which Blossom's pride was hurt - both in terms of being rejected and in terms of being so emotional about it when she's supposed to be "mature". I think Buttercup wanted to spring into action, to know what was going on so she could try to fix or help in her own way, which resulted in her concern and then frustration, but Blossom was already making a big step telling Bubbles. I think the fact that Buttercup also sees crying as a sort of "weakness" affected Blossom's willingness to share with Buttercup. Blossom herself sees her control over her emotions as a virtue, so being so emotional also seems like a "weakness" to her. The last thing she wants on top of heartbreak is to come off weak, because as much as Buttercup and Bubbles are her sisters, she is their leader. Bubbles is closer to her and doesn't attach that meaning to emotion or crying, making it easier to show that vulnerability with her. There's also the fact that Blossom may have thought that as protective and impulsive as Buttercup is, she might've made a big deal out of it with Brick for hurting Blossom. And that would be yet another humiliation, albeit fully unintentional.

As for why they haven't addressed the elephant shoved in the back of the proverbial room, I think there's a couple reasons. In Bubbles' words, Buttercup lets things build up until they explode. It's hard to have a productive talk about deep seated, years old issues when everyone's emotions are already really heightened. And that seems to be the only time it comes up at least from Buttercup's end. Bubbles is by far the most emotionally intelligent and communicative one, but she doesn't like arguments or emotional conflicts so I don't think she's very inclined to bring things up that could start them if she can avoid it. We sort of see this with Will when she defuses his anger by calling herself a "bad girlfriend" and doesn't address a lot of the things that make her unhappy in their relationship until their breakup. Blossom seems to come from the perspective that if someone has an issue, they should bring it up in a mature way without becoming very emotional or defensive (or aggressive). That it is their responsibility and they only have themselves to blame if they don't (see her conversation with Bubbles after their first monster fight). And in general I do think that is a fairly decent communication policy - ppl can't read minds. But it's not a realistic way to improve Blossom and Buttercup's relationship specifically imo.

We don't really see Blossom asking Buttercup what's going on either, and we know that Buttercup isn't one to volunteer information about what's going on with her. Tho it's very possible that Blossom has tried to ask in the past but has given up after Buttercup rejected those attempts. I think Buttercup also tends to get more defensive with Blossom in apprehension of criticism. Blossom is more critical of her than Bubbles, which doesn't necessarily inspire her to confide in her if she was ever inclined to do so. In fact, most of their interactions throughout the fic involve competitiveness/rivalry, teasing, and/or scolding. Mostly scolding (if only cuz Buttercup doesn't care about cussing or behaving "properly" in more official settings).

Putting two kids/teens with a high aversion to vulnerability and opposite strategies of addressing issues in the same household tends to lead to conflict that doesn't get fully addressed/resolved without intervention. At least in my experience.

As a tangential addendum, I do find it really interesting that Blossom confided in Bubbles yet not the Professor, and that Buttercup confided in the Professor yet not her sisters. And I think that is also at least partly a function of the roles and reputations they take on. Blossom is the competent leader who is supposed to be ok. She doesn't want to worry the Professor. She might even feel like it might disappoint him for her to be so shaken over something "trivial" and a rowdyruff boy to boot (I don't think he would be but I digress). Buttercup also doesn't want the Professor to know about how Butch ripped her shirt off because he was tired and she didn't want to worry him, but that was a source of anger rather than sadness. In contrast, she was kind of in shock when she got back home after the breakup with Mitch and the initial rage. She only broke down after the Professor asked if she was ok and it kind of shook her out of her numbness. But I think there's also a sort of vulnerability she specifically allows with the Professor in private, though this is more of a headcanon. My only "evidence" for this is that scene in the show where he kisses each of the girls goodnight and Buttercup scowls until he kisses her on the head, eliciting an adorable but brief smile before scowling again. And in the first chapter he indulges her request to drop them off further down the block away from Mitch, and she kisses him on the cheek and says "I love you with all my heart", and idk I just think she has an especially soft spot in her heart for him. Like in the deep, secret recesses of her heart she's a covert Dad's girl?

[colorisbyshe]

Feel free to ignore this because I’m sure you’re well beyond tired of “ace discourse” at this point but I’m curious if you’ve seen the recent studies claiming that asexuals are more likely to be offered conversion therapy than LGBT people, and if you have any thoughts on it?

Means absolutely nothing to me because in this context... it's clear no one involved knows what the term "conversion therapy" means, as aces have been watering down the term for almost a decade now, making it to mean "any attempt to change your sexuality" which has ALSO been watered down to mean "any ace being asked if they have depression, sexual trauma, or possibly a hormonal condition and if they want treatment for that."

Conversion therapy (in the context of sexuality, not gender which is similar but not identical, though it often involves sexuality based CT as well) is a fairly specific thing--it involves some authoritative figure (a "therapist," a priest, an "ex gay guru") trying to do two things--erase same gender attraction, often through forcing the person to associate it with shame/pain/disgust/nausea, and to force them to act as it they experience "correct" attraction.

Conversion therapy is often viewed as "successful" if only the first step is complete. As in, the person comes out unable to enjoy/experience/recognize their same gender attraction. They could go the rest of their life celibate, not dating, not marrying and it is successful enough. Best case scenario, they can marry someone of the "right" gender, MAYBE have sex, MAYBE have kids but... the lack of tangible gayness is enough. (NO, I am not saying conversion "therapists" want people to identify as asexual or aromantic, just that they don't mind if gay and bisexual people feel NO attraction/desires when they are done with them.)

Understanding conversion therapy is about destroying sexual attraction, romantic attraction in gay and bisexual people means it is impossible to link up with anti-ace "conversion therapy." There is none. There is no organization or group vying for people to experience sexual attraction in that way. Who are tormenting, abusing people into feeling attraction.

This is especially obvious when you realize... that the argument because "There are organizations that want gay and bisexual asexuals to experience sexual attraction." Run by who? Where? What are they doing to force gay people to want to have sex?

Like... is this just for straight aces then? Can you name a single group in the world that believes in conversion therapy that WANTS gay sexual desires? Gay romantic desire?

So, conversion therapy for aces doesn't exist. Not any systemic level. Are aces being abused, harassed via rape culture? Sure but that isn't conversion therapy.

What aces often claim is the hypothetical "HSDD diagnosis, which Ive debunked as aphobia... years ago.

Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder is a SUDDEN LOSS of sexual attraction COMBINED with DISTRESS at said sudden loss. The DSM EXPLICITLY has an exception for lifelong HSDD--if you have never experienced sexual attraction, no one cares. If you experience DISTRESS at lack of *libido*, doctors may offer exploring potential help on that front... and counseling to accept that maybe you never will.

There is no forced, coercive treatment. If you experience sudden loss of sexual desires (LIBIDO, NOT ATTRACTION), they may test for depression, hormonal changes, cancer, and other potential causes... if you want them to. You're offered counseling for the distress.

HSDD is the type of shit men get viagra for.

Surveys like this are suggesting being prescribed viagra is conversion therapy.

Honestly, the fact that the survey is about conversion therapy being OFFERED, when often it is a COERCIVE practice against minors or vulnerable adults in faith settings, is kinda all the proof you need that what they are discussing is not conversion therapy.

But rather an uncomfortable moment at the doctors where the doctor asks questions they don't like, just to rule out potential health issues.

ANYWAYS ANY ATTEMPT TO ARGUE WITH ME WILL JUST BE MET WITH MY TARGET WISHLIST. I ALSO DON'T WANT ANONS AGREEING WITH ME. I WANT THIS TO BE ONE AND DONE POST