#for betraying wwx after the fact

[mxtxfanatic]

Jc stans are getting more insufferable day by day I just saw a post that said that Wen Qing and Wei Wuxian were crazy for core transfer cuz it was unethical medical practice and jc didn't consent and other such shit and it had nearly 200 notes like people in this fandom totally missed the point.

Also his stans also say jc antis media illiterate, like who is actually lacking reading comprehension here?! It's so unnerving and also funny that jc stans be calling everyone names while supporting the most terrible loser and calling him king lol.

Sorry for the rant but can you debunk the whole core transfer discourse cuz I don't think my English and essay skills are good enough to word it out myself.

Thank you💗

I know you were probably looking for a personal response, but @jiangwanyinscatmom just reblogged this and it pretty much sums up my thoughts. The only things I would add are 1) the golden core transfer is not a matter of medicine or medical ethics so this discourse is irrelevant, 2) if it was, Wei Wuxian would be entitled to anonymity seeing as he is the donor, meaning Jiang Cheng would still not be entitled to know where his new golden core came from, 3) Jiang Cheng, himself, stopped asking questions because he wanted a golden core regardless of how he got it, and 4) there’s no way to spin this ultimate act of selflessness where the recipient only benefited and continues to benefit with no wish to reject or return the sacrifice as one of selfishness because the recipient is mad about who his donor was. Jiang Cheng and his stans, both, are terrible people, perfectly matched.

[whetstonefires]

Underrated element of where Jiang Cheng is re: wwx after everything is that they always had a sort of dual relationship. Two different relationship premises, superimposed on one another.

There's the one where they grew up together, as close as brothers, beating each other up and complaining and being one another's closest companions, sharing a bedroom as kids and eating at the same family dinner table, actively encouraged by Jiang Fengmian to interact as equals.

And then there's the one where Wei Wuxian was in service to Jiang Cheng's family. Not as a servant--Jiang Fengmian absolutely refused to do that, even if he couldn't adopt him. But as a disciple of Jiang Cheng's father and recipient of his charity, as Jiang Cheng's future right hand and most trusted subordinate.

It's a vertical relationship, intimate in its own way but with very strict expectations about what obligations flow in what directions; they are not identical and reciprocal as between friends and equals.

(It's my opinion that Jiang Fengmian's core deal was a deep-seated discontent with the hierarchies he was at the top of, without access to any way to actually deconstruct them or even coherently articulate his opposition. Wei Changze was his dear friend, and no one thinks that's a good enough reason for him to treat Wei Changze's son like his own, because Wei Changze was also his servant, and you can't make that circle square. That's not a way you're allowed to love.)

Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian were like brothers; Wei Wuxian served Jiang Cheng.

The personal relationship was always the most important one. To them, in their hearts. But it was the other one that was real, that had weight in the world.

And it's important to understand that neither can be held up as more factual than the other, even though they conflict. Both relationships existed, and had power.

So then when Jiang Cheng chose to hate Wei Wuxian and articulate his grudge against him, he chose to do it in the language of fealty. Because as far as he knew, his case there was secure, watertight, and it wouldn't expose him emotionally or politically.

And those are the terms in which he's been condemning him all this time: for abandoning the Sect, for ingratitude, for lack of loyalty.

For fuckups, too, and poor judgment, but some of that now turns out to have been justified and some of it was mostly the fault of enemies behaving badly, or even Jiang Cheng himself allowing himself to be pushed into making unworthy choices.

And it was all for his sake.

The thing, the thing in my opinion, about what Wei Wuxian did, about the core transfer and his silent self-destruction around keeping it secret, is that that is a hideous thing to have done between two people who love each other, as an act of love. Beautiful, but awful. As the man who was like a brother to him, Jiang Cheng has a great deal of standing to object to it.

But as an act of vassalage, it's basically perfect.

If Wei Wuxian were only what he formally was to Jiang Cheng, if he is interpreted through a lens of fealty and obligation, he did exactly what he should have done, and went beyond what duty actually required. And went to his death silently, allowing himself to be judged, taking all the burden on himself rather than let harm come to his lord.

Like, obviously Jiang Cheng was harmed by the part where Jin Zixuan got manslaughtered and Jiang Yanli walked into the line of fire in situations where Wei Wuxian was resorting to violence and probably shouldn't have, but those are one step removed from the core issue. In terms of Wei Wuxian's intentional choices around Jiang Cheng himself, at the times he was feeling betrayed and abandoned Wei Wuxian was in fact being impossibly, poetically loyal, an absolute cliche about it.

But only in terms of the hierarchical form of their relationship.

Which means that even though Jiang Cheng has a lot of reasons to still be mad at Wei Wuxian, his actual complaints that he's centered for thirteen years are basically wiped out by the revelation of Wei Wuxian's sacrifice.

Wei Wuxian was in fact doing the tragic hero loyal vassal thing, which very much includes being misunderstood and slandered by the world. (Chenqing as a name choice absolutely references this expectation, and the idea that Jiang Cheng specifically will never understand that Wei Wuxian was trying to help him first and foremost all along; he is not subtle.)

The debts Jiang Cheng has been spitefully calling in and considering defaulted were already long paid.

So if at this point Jiang Cheng keeps pursuing that same line of rhetorical attack, now that he knows, he'll be putting himself morally in the wrong, and he knows it. But if he pivots to something else, he'll both be signalling the shape of that secret to the entire world and looking like a prize idiot.

Which is already how he feels.

To actually address the remaining grievances between them, which are considerable, would require releasing those safe, open grudges to Wei Wuxian's face and then reclaiming him as a loved one. Which is, one could fairly say, more than anyone could expect.

Which is why Wei Wuxian told him he didn't have to.

Which leaves Jiang Cheng at something of an impasse.

[symphonyofsilence]

Honestly, it looks like at least after the Guanyin Temple, WWX is actively resisting understanding that JC still cares about him. JC takes a Stab to the chest for him, asks him why he didn't keep his promise & stay by his side, has a full breakdown over his sacrifice, gives him back Chenqing that he's kept for all these years, gets angry at JGY on his behalf, JGY spells out for WWX that JC is angry because he feels WWX was wronged, and that JC must have come to rescue not only JL, but WWX too, & targets WWX in the middle of the fight, fully trusting that JC would rush to his rescue, and he does. JC even thanks LWJ and holds a fallen WN. & I think one reason that WWX might be subconsciously fighting against getting all these clear signs and still avoiding JC might be that as much as he thinks he can’t handle JC’s wrath and blame and wants him to forgive him, he actually can’t afford JC’s forgiveness and unconditional love. Because he still blames himself for JZX’s and JYL’s deaths and even the massacre of Lotus Pier. & JC is the only one who has the right to be angry at him for all of these. He and JL. JC’s the only one who knew JYL & genuinely cared about her. WWX doesn’t think he deserves JC’s forgiveness. In fact, he looks terrified of it. Just look how quickly he turns from JC after thanking him for giving Chenqing back to him (Chenqing that after all these years still sounded like he had first used it. A very telling sign of JC's affection in itself.) Even though even JL who was watching from afar could say that JC had something to say to WWX:

JC is an outward force blaming him and being angry at him. WWX can tell him that he doesn’t know what to say to him when asked for an explanation, he can tell him that it’s all in the past. Let it go. he can beat the shit out of him. He can apologize to him and be judged by him. He can avoid him. Pretending that by ignoring him he doesn’t have to face the past. JC blames WWX and is harsh to him so WWX doesn’t have to fight himself and blame himself all the time. post-resurrection WWX keeps misinterpreting everything JC says and is unwilling to listen to him and get the hints JC keeps giving him about how he just wants WWX to come back home & interprets everything JC even doesn’t say in the worst ways he can bc it’s not so much about JC than it’s about WWX projecting onto JC. Because he thinks JC MUST be thinking that way. BC WWX thinks he deserves JC’s hatred. And judging by how he keeps misinterpreting JC even pre-time-skip, and in true WWX fashion fully believes himself to be right & doesn't second guess himself and or makes any effort to understand JC, & JYL is always the JC translator for him, from the moment she says to him that despite his tantrum JC is happy to finally have a playmate, to the moment she says that JC was the one who offered WWX name JL, and without JYL there to take their hands and pull them to meet each other in the middle the brothers can't communicate, Jiang Cheng has never been so much his own person in Wei Wuxian's mind as WWX's interpretation of him. WWX's shidi. An open book to WWX in WWX's mind. When he was not WWX's fragile shidi who needed protection (which @cerusee has written a great meta about here.), then he was WWX's betrayed, angry shidi who blamed him & resented him. If JC forgives him and continues to be his loving brother then it’s clear that the only one who can’t forgive WWX is WWX. and what is he gonna do about that?

[asksythe]

Does chinese fandom also have the headcannon of wen yuan being wen ruohans secret 3rd son conceived after wen xu & wen chaos death's 😅? Western fans made this headcanon because they thought having the wen remnants wwx takes in be this separate branch that are healers muddled the themes? And to spite the great clans who attempted to exterminate the wens root and branch having the only post canon survivor of the wen being qishan wen but also directly related to wen ruohan is very satisfying to them I guess

What I'm trying to ask is does chinese cultural reading of the text allow for such headcanon or does it go against text

Wen Yuan being Wen Ruohan's secret child... well... I personally have never seen that in the Chinese fandom.

That said, a fandom is a big space, especially the Chinese side. So, I don't think anybody can conclusively claim any one thing. There's a lot of wacky stuff out there. And a lot of it genuinely makes sense or is convincing in its own way. I've seen ethnic minority authors (Xin Jiang, etc..) coming in with their own cosmology and folklore completely distinct from the base cosmology of MDZS and writing some of the most creative and beautiful stories I have ever read (like the idea that Lan mama might be a member of the Northern tribes worshipping the phoenix, which explains her being powerful enough to kill Lan papa's master while also being an unknown to the clans, and that her 'death's is actually part of the phoenix saintess's ability to reborn herself in a new body).

Wen Yuan being Wen Ruohan's secret love child doesn't really have much if any support from the book, the donghua, or the show. If anything, the first time A Yuan appeared in the book, he was described as a child not more than 2 years old atop Wen grangran's back in the prison camp. The time makes it really awkward for A Yuan to be Wen Ruohan's albeit it's not completely out of the realm of possibilities. In the same chapter, the book also said that A Yuan's father is Wen Qing's cousin and Wen grangran's son.

But if you are in pursuit of exploring certain themes or ideas, then I don't see why not. Headcanon is... well... headcanon. The nature of fandom being a space for exploration and appreciation is a beautiful thing I think.

Funnily enough, I have seen a fair number of Chinese fics operating on the premise that Wei Ying himself is mainline Wen via either his mother or his father. The theme they pursue is a member of the Wen ending itself in the fire of purification. The Wen founder, by all accounts, seemed a real stand-up guy. The teachings he left behind to his children were genuine pieces of wisdom and calling for a commitment to justice and fairness. The Wens in the book had a lot of signs that they had many good and right ideas (pursuing standardized laws among cultivators, the observation tower system that ended up being stolen by Jin Guangyao, etc...) but they went down the wrong direction due to corruption and a betrayal of the founding precepts laid down by their own founders. And so it took a (secret) Wen descendant to cut away the rot and to punish themselves, leaving behind only one or two genuinely innocent Wens.

The sun rises, the sun sets, the sun rises again. Anew and cleansed from rot. The mark of the Wen sun burned into Wei Ying's chest holds more symbolic power than it first appears, and the fact that Wei Ying cited the Wen founder's precepts back to a Wen descendant who had betrayed those very precepts. Like that. That kind of theme.

I remember there being several really big-name Chinese fan authors who wrote the same premise in different ways. It was really fun to read. Oh man, stories in which Wen Ruohan gets to redo things, or the Wen are all resurrected in a heaven-gambit type plot are in abundance, funnily enough. Hah! They tend to be a lot of fun to read too. There's also that one really great story in which the previous generations of the clan (Lan mama, papa, Wen Ruohan in his prime before children, Nie papa and his second wife, Jiang husband and wife freshly married, Wei papa and Cangse Sanren, etc...) get to see bits and pieces of the future via text without knowing their names and they have to deduce who is whose kids and how are they going to save their kids now??!!! In that story, Wen Ruohan kept thinking Wei Ying (called the destined of heaven in this story) is his child because there's no way he would spawn such bumbling, corrupted incompetents ... hahahahahahaha.... oh man... Well, that particular Wen Ruohan would then vow to be a better and stricter father to his kids to prevent them from becoming such rotten shitbags.

Oh yeah, there's also the idea that the Wen, being such a big and histories clan, actually had fall-back plan preparing for such scenarios where their entire clan is wiped out. They have secret seeds placed in far off territory. In one Chinese fic I read, this Wen descendant spent decades studying the major clans, rebuild the Wen in secret, and almost enacted bloody vengeance on all the major clans, but then stayed his hand when he found out the existence of Wen Yuan. That one was a good read too. Very convincing.

Ahem, the short answer to your question is that the canon text doesn't really support that headcanon... but it's not strictly speaking an impossibility either. It just boils down to how convincing can you write it?

[llycaons]

Section Six: Part XVIII

The shame corner for naughty fanfiction: fics with issues within the actual work (mostly minor)

specifics: these issues are mostly background 3zun, hints of jl/lsz, and some weird gender and/or sex stuff. I put the better ones first and the worst ones later. still read the author notes and everything but I genuinely think these are good quality besides their issues. most of the author issues here are also less serious than they were in the previous section

*grave goods* by luckymarrow                

summary: a modern AU work exploring mortality and grief, set in NYC. wwx is a mortician and lwj is a lawyer advocating for trafficked women and undocumented immigrants, like his late mother was. this was a realistic and compassionate look at death from both a professional and personal standpoint in ways that I found very cathartic and personally meaningful. the way lwj’s mother was discussed made me really emotional and his arc regarding her came full circle so beautifully towards the end. and a-yuan was REALLY cute, I think they captured him so well. it has a hopeful finale, but it really puts you through the ringer. it did get a little corny towards the end tho. either canon but more novel in the sex scenes check author notes for warnings pertaining to death and grieving, child death, domestic violence, family death, femicide (though not named as such), and suicide some of the sex scenes are really hardcore bdsm so just keep that in mind but everything is clearly consensual and safe work issues: this work is in this section because one of the sex scenes incorporates cnc but it’s like two lines, and like I said above it’s all clearly consensual author issues: has written genderbends

*paired wings soaring by typefortydeductions

summary: in this modern british AU, lwj (poetry translator) and wwx (artist) move in with lwj’s aging mother (a poet in exile from china) after she has a fall. the tenderness and heart and romance of this was so beautiful, especially with how it tied into wwx’s art pieces subtle references to domestic violence/abuse re: mama lan situation. nothing is gratuitous or even spelled out explicitly work issues: there was a short scene of (consensual-after-the-fact) somnophilia and some…weird things in some of the sex scenes. the bdsm was written better than in most fics, and I did like that they focused more on trust, but some of them still skeeved me out lxc is with jgy in this, and he does not turn out to be evil or betray him or anything and it ends with 3zun so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ also when wwx proposed to lwj he went down on both knees because he’s a sub 😭 aneeway author issues: has written cnc, dubcon, genderbends, A/B/O and 3zun

*The Shape of Your Love (is Horny) by Vamillepudding

summary: demon influencer wwx meets and then tries to romance a mortal lwj without knowing much about how humans work, despite having lived on earth for years and watching a lot of demon porn about humans. just really silly and off the wall. they nail lwj being a weirdo and this makes him really compatible with non-human wwx. the way they had instant chemistry and fell right into a relationship was so low-drama and sweet. based on the title you’d think there are weird sex things going on but it’s actually rated just T. nhs is great and there’s a ton of really funny lan family moments and jc stuff too. an extremely good comedic work work issues: unfortunately the other main couple is jgy/lxc author issues: see above - xiyao

*happy not knowing by plonk

summary: this bold author dared to ask the question: what if lxc was incredibly stupid? what if he didn’t realize his brother was gay? what if he was offensively, hilariously, absurdly oblivious to the fact that wwx and lwj were together in a romantic and sexual sense? while they all lived together in CR? for years? the result is a very funny multi-POV tale lasting five+ years that at the end reached heights of heteronormative nonsense so extreme that it was genuinely hurtful. but I love that lxc is the butt of every joke and mocked at every turn, presented as foolishly oblivious while everyone else knows the truth. I adore qin su in this, and the rest of the story actually goes quite well for everyone compared to canon, so it’s a lot more lighthearted wq and jc is a background pair (that lxc is equally oblivious to), but they showed up only once or twice and jc doesn’t abandon her clan to death in this AU so I don’t mind as much if lxc’s inability to see wx’s relationship as romantic is upsetting instead of humorous to you, this may be a fic to skip. the other characters do see and support wx even when lxc doesn’t work issues: although not treated as important, the line that established wx were sleeping together stated that their first time was when wwx was drunk. wwx refers to himself once as a wife. there’s a scene of somnophilia (sort of?), which I found very uncomfortable even if it was consensual. it also leans into wx having loud and aggressive sex everywhere in CR, and it’s implied they have sex outside where juniors saw them so 😬 author issues: has written genderbends and A/B/O

remember how the morning will arrive by remiges

summary: a three-part series focused on lqr, who, postcanon, continues to grapple with his personal history of child sexual abuse at the hands of his older brother. this is an intense work, but not graphic or gratuitous, and it has a hopeful ending. it incorporates an interesting and unique backstory for lqr and madam lan, and the way it handles trauma and evokes emotion is incredibly powerful and cathartic despite lqr’s very bleak and painful history, and lqr shares moments of solidarity with other survivors of sexual abuse. the novel-leaning characterizations were overall quite good work issues: I really liked the first two parts of this series, but the third one disappointed me. lqr stumbles upon a (non-graphic) cnc roleplay scene with wx and, understandably, loses his shit. it’s handled about as well as it could be by the characters, lqr is immediately told that what’s happening in consensual, and once he has a few days to process he’s like ‘yeah that’s your business it’s fine,’ which like. idk it felt shitty to make him see that and then say that. the finale of this series does wrap up the story in a really satisfying way, I just wish the author hasn’t been so faithful to the novel wx dynamics and then go a step further by having their fictional survivor of csa validate rape roleplay too? author issues: cnc

kick at the darkness ‘til it bleeds daylight by AlfAlfAlfAlfAlf, tardigradeschool

summary: *deep breath* canon divergent parent trap AU where a-yuan had a twin brother, and in the confusion of nightless city, wwx and lwj are both injured in ways that lead them to believe the other AND one of the twins is dead. afterwards, they each raise one twin, lwj in CR and wwx as a rogue cultivator hiding his identity, neither realizing the truth. 16 years later, the twins meet on a night hunt, figure out who they are, and switch places to figure out the story and get their parents together. the style for this fic was super fun, and I thought the humor, characterizations, and relationship writing were just excellent. jyl is alive, and lxc plays a much different role in wx’s relationship; the darker elements juxtapose the lighter ones quite nicely. while the relationships between all of the ‘good guys’ lacked the drama and tension of canon, flashback-era wx were just devastatingly romantic and tender, and their post-reunion relationship is very sweet. there’s a surprise f/f ship we see towards the end! the finale gives some quieter characters a chance to shine, though I did find it a bit silly and melodramatic personally there was way too much kid content compared to wx content, but that’s just a preference on my end. if you like the juniors you’ll probably enjoy that part more than I did. just see the notes about it, because… work issues: you know how fucking mad I am that this fic started hinting that jl had a crush on lsz. here they’re closer in age and technically only family friends since wwx isn’t in the picture, but there’s no excuse for ljy to then start crushing on wwx’s kid who switches spots with lsz. like, obvs I still consider it incest but ig in-universe it’s only not incest by the barest of technicalities 🙄 none of the kids actually get together in the fic itself, but it was just SO annoying and gross and then the author had to be like ‘lol they start dating’ in the notes after the last chapter. shut UP! author issues: xiyao, niyao, and 3zun

Back to Start

[rosethornewrites]

T & G reading since 8/13

Finished

Teen:

no time for crying, by Narci (6 chapters)

Jingyi’s made a lot of silly mistakes on night hunts before. Everyone has, even Sizhui.

But this may be the worst.

(Jingyi stares harder in hopes that the two children will suddenly regrow to their previous sizes. They do not. Jingyi keeps trying.

He whispers, “have you ever just like realized that you’re about to be literally murdered?”

“Can’t say I’ve had that particular realization, no,” Zizhen replies with the air of a born badass. Jin Ling sighs.

“Murder is wrong,” the child in black interjects wisely.

Even at age six, Senior Wei is lecturing us, Jingyi thinks hysterically.)

The blame game, by apathyinreverie (🔒)

Wei Ying doesn’t know what to make of it when, after he so publicly confronts the Jins, his staunchest supporter turns out to be… Zewu-jun?

(Or, Lan Xichen time travels, immediately goes about fixing things, and promptly confuses the fuck out of everyone along the way.)

Finding a Home, by Duochanfan

Madam Yu has arranged a marriage for Wei Wuxian to the Cloud Recesses Second Jade, Lan Wangji. But will Wei Wuxian have that happy ending?

built by the fires of volcanoes, by isabilightwood

The end of the world was not Wei Wuxian’s fault. In fact, he’d slept through the event that doomed them.

After the Sunshot Campaign, 3zun threw the Yin Iron into the volcano at Nightless City. This was a bad idea. Twenty years later, Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji travel back in time to prevent a hybrid volcanic eruption-zombie apocalypse. But their plan is going well, so there's plenty of time to relive their youths, convince the Dafan Wen to let them adopt their son, and matchmake friends and sisters.

Mud, by snowberryrose

In which Jiang Cheng attempts to show up Jin ZiXuan

General:

it's your soul, by syriala

Wei Wuxian never said it out loud before, the fact that Lan Zhan just loved him for his body, and he’s surprised at how much it truly hurts him. The only thing Wei Wuxian always wanted was for Lan Zhan to love him, him, and not his body, just like he loves everything about Lan Zhan.

And now he doesn't even have his own body anymore.

Through Brush Strokes and Ink Lines, by cerbykerby

There is a painting of Wei Wuxian in the Cloud Recesses.

Wei Wuxian has no idea how it got there, and even less idea of why it is, specifically, in Lan Wangji's room.

----------

After waking up in Mo Xuanyu's body and being unceremoniously dragged to the Cloud Recesses, Wei Wuxian makes a discovery.

(or: wwx and his cloud recesses shenanigans)

No, Wei Wuxian, You Cannot Divorce A Man You Haven't Married Yet!, by stiltonbasket (9 chapters)

"Have you heard? The second young mistress of Yunmeng Jiang broke her troth with Hanguang-jun and ran off to the Burial Mounds with Wen Qionglin!"

"Ah, poor Lan-er-gongzi. Breaking her sister's engagement wasn't enough for Wei-guniang, she had to betray her own intended!"

In which Wei Wuxian ditches the cultivation world, Lan Wangji goes grocery shopping, Lan Sizhui narrates his parents' love story, and Nie Huaisang is the only one who knows what's really going on. Prompt fic!

Unfinished

Teen:

so i cut the shackles and changed my name, by MichelleFeather

“A-Ying, should anything happen, should you be separated from us or find yourself in need of help, find Lan Qiren in Cloud Recesses. No matter what’s happened, he will keep you safe. He has sworn to me his home will always be open to you, no matter what.”

Following the advice of his late mother, Wei Ying runs away from Lotus Pier, knowing that if he were to stay, he would likely die at the hands of Madam Yu.

And, he finds, the Lan Clan is the place where he was always supposed to be.

Fall again, by apathyinreverie (🔒)

The one with the time travel.

this is our vow, by orro (🔒)

Waking up in Gusu isn’t a surprise but waking up as a teenager is enough to make Wei Wuxian scream, disrupting the precious silence of the Cloud Recesses.

Wei Wuxian had been given a second chance when he was brought back to life. But this time, he can truly fix everything, and if he can’t find a way back then at least he can make some things right that he could never atone enough for.

General:

Blooming You a Garden Inside Me, by xxxMiaHikarixxx

After Wei Ying's encounter with the Waterborne Abyss, he sees the Twin Jades of Lan taking a walk. Curiously, he follows them and hears Lan Zhan's distaste for him. The first flower petal lands on his palm. Does Wei Ying have the hanahaki curse? Or is it something even more complicated?

This story started as an one-shot for a challenge and has been an ongoing multi-pov monster that fixes everything through angst, romance and lore.

The Sun is back, by Shanashe

Wen Ruohan's soul is attached to Wei Wuxian after his death. He lingers and witnesses all the canon events that follows.

Post Canon, he gets sent back to the past.

[runespoor7]

chengqing

What made you ship it?

Back then we were thinking about people to ship JC with, and WQ existed. Since then, Untamed gave our little crackship food. And since then I also started OTPing Chengxian and the core transfer has been a object of easy fixation. It would be inaccurate to say that I started shipping Chengqing because I started shipping Chengxian. But I certainly ship Chengqing through a certain amount of WWX feelings - not only Chengxian, in fact.

What are your favorite things about the ship?

sometimes a mad scientist performs a secret, impossible experiment on someone who doesn't know what's going on and they get together afterwards, and suddenly there's this huge, grotesque thing between them.

I think they should kink on it, but I also think JC would deal very badly indeed with WQ's involvement in the gc transfer. (in my mind she doesn't tell him until she has no choice/it comes out.) I can't overstate how much I adore the kink (in a wide sense) potential between them.

they get one another, about duty and family and keeping the people you care for close and safe and not trusting easily.

also - this is notably less my thing - but I think they'd be good at taking of one another when they're not tearing each other apart for the heavy topics (they agree on duty, but that doesn't mean it would never come up in a bad argument, and the core transfer reframes everything there - suddenly wq has very little room to argue about her dutifulness! you were rearming a direct enemy of your sect babe! you were 100% betraying your sect!)(unless: and I think this is juicy: unless WQ explains that she expected JC to die after the core transfer. no JC with a core, no betrayal.)

and yes also chengqingxian, or at least wq and wwx being besties.

also very into the age-gap between them. she's older! she's already respected and established and a wordly grown-up! it's not relevant to post-canon chengqing except as a contrast to how things were back then, which is still very interesting, but in a canon divergence where the Wen siblings go to Lotus Pier, or sth like that, I really like the idea/image of WQ's crush on JC. it's funny and it's cute and look I think JC should get a win. The win in this case is WQ horny-clamping her jaw and respecting him. his brains. while looking disrespectfully.

Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

...this is very dependent of "what-ifs" but: I don't think JC would be totally okay with WQ and WWX's relationship.

He's deeply insecure when it comes to people loving him, and WWX betrayed his trust and convinced WQ to go along with it. (in Untamed it's made worse by the fact that JC and WQ already knew one another.) For me, WWX and WQ get one another to a level that other characters don't, I'm only 10% kidding when I call them soulmates, and imo JC would not be able to deal with that very well unless it's solved in Chengqingxian. (which I think he'd shoulder better because they're both here; if WWX is with LWJ it's... it's not exactly YZY while JFM is thinking of WCZ and CSS, but something like that. to me. I do think he'd be jealous.)

less unpopular than it seemed at one time, but bears repeating that it's fine for WQ to neither peg nor dom JC. I mean I'm failing to write that but I think WQ needs and wants to be pampered from time to time. Otoh I also think she's a lot more likely than WWX to tell JC what she needs, since her self-image isn't all twisted up in being better-than-jc at all times.

I clearly didn't try hard enough to keep WWX out of this answer.😔

[itsybitsylemonsqueezy]

hi ... can you tell me about your mdzs ship. if u want. lxc x nhs .... I am intrigued and need to study it under a microscope. in incredible detail. I am trying to sleep but my brain cannot look away. I need to see the vision

Oh, it is very microscope-worthy, my friend. You are right to say that. Very kind and brave of you to ask anyway!

Okay, so, we're all aware that LXC is doing Not Great after the events of canon and won't be for like... while. I like to imagine 2 things about this:

NHS is aware and maybe even feels a little guilt that LXC is now broken. It wasn't his intention to break him, but it was an unavoidable piece of what had to happen.

LXC isn't just doing Not Great, he may never recover, not without a lot of active effort being poured into him. His whole sense of reality is shattered and I think this could lead to seeing some really dark shit come out of LXC.

Yes, LXC has his brother and his brother's husband, but LWJ has to run like the whole world of cultivation and as much as LWJ and WWX care about LXC, I think they'd have their hands so full with other shit that they can't responsibly devote themselves to caring for LXC 24/7. In his more lucid moments, regrettably, I think LXC is also aware of this and so is reluctant to ask for help despite the fact that he's coming apart at the seams.

Under these conditions, I think it's possible that we might see some serious malcoping from LXC, some real bad and even dangerous choices as he tries to reconcile what he knew and trusted and loved with what happened. I think it could get to the point that LWJ and WWX have to make him the priority, if only to stop the byproducts and side effects of his descent into madness. It's wrenching and scary to see such a good man in such a state.

WWX and LWJ would of course start looking for solutions and at this point, I think NHS would pop back up, in that uncanny way of his. For, after all, who knows the treatment of madness better than the Unclean Realm? I think he might even make it sound like LWJ and WWX would be doing him a favor to let him take LXC and care for him there. I think it would take some convincing, after all, LWJ and WWX know now and NHS knows there's nothing he can do to make them unknow. But, on the other hand, what ulterior motive would it serve to offer to help here? Why would he betray them, and in such an obvious move, when they already have cause to be wary of him? No, for someone who thinks in spiraling patterns like NHS, this is not the move he would make if he was trying to hurt LXC, it's far too transparent. He only moves when there is perfect cover. So, this offer must be sincere.

Even though WWX and LWJ might trust NHS to really be trying to help, that doesn't mean though that LXC gets it or appreciates it. He'd be skeptical, not just of NHS' intentions, but of his own ability to even be helped. Why bother with him? The best thing he can do for anyone is just die quietly. Why would NMJ's little brother want anything to do with him now? NHS always titters and cocks his head when he asks that, like he doesn't understand the question. Of course, he wants to help. He's very incompetent and doesn't know much about healing, but he has access to all his family's meditation practices and if there is something there that can be of use, well, surely he'd like to offer it!

NHS sticks close to LXC while he stays as his guest. Mostly LXC is listless, waiting for death to finally release him. NHS is bright and bubbly and flits about, like he used to do when LXC would make regular journeys here to visit NMJ. It stirs a nostalgia in LXC that he thought long since dead. The memories are too painful; he shuts them out. But then NHS will take his hand, or draw his attention to a tapestry, or just stare at him with the widest, keenest look, like that of a puppy, with that desperate desire to help even though he clearly could never understand what is wrong and... the pain somehow abates. It slowly becomes easier to come out of the pain again. And yet, LXC has to wonder why NHS is helping, really helping. Why will he never answer when LXC asks him.

Somehow, despite everyone's misgivings and doubts, LXC starts to improve. He sleeps regularly, he even eats and begins to put on weight again. Despite himself, he's starting to look and feel better as he helps NHS with his matters of state and combing through the archives and family history for useful information. He finds that work, projects, take his mind off of everything that happened and every time he finishes a task, NHS seems to always have another problem ready and urgently requiring his assistance. At first, he'd assumed it was just NHS' natural incompetence at leadership, but eventually he begins to notice how effortlessly and unfailingly NHS has something for him to do and it cannot be mere coincidence. He's... he's not sure how he feels; can't decide if it is frightening to be so understood or comforting.

Still, the question plagues him: why is NHS bothering? Why didn't he let him die, all those long months ago with his brother and their lover? Why has he worked so hard to prevent his death? Every time LXC turns his mind towards the answer, he balks. He cannot even say why it frightens him, only that... there is something inside NHS, something in him that LXC cannot quite look at yet and the very idea of it shudders him to his core. It is only worse that, outwardly, NHS is all sweetness and affection. He dotes on LXC, gets him anything he wants, even before he knows he wants it. He spends uncountable hours out of his day with LXC alone, so many hours that LXC can't understand how the Unclean Realm continues to run with its leader so adrift in personal occupations. Every soft touch, every tender word, begins to grate on LXC with razor sharpness. It is too much to be borne.

One day, LXC finally snaps and begins screaming at NHS. He calls him every name under the sun, accuses him of terrible things. He cannot bear the idea that the man taking such good care of him is the same man who killed JGY in cold blood, who made his death happen, who knew all and saw all and wrought his judgment. He throws priceless heirlooms without thought. NHS sits amongst the chaos, a placid look on his face, saying nothing to LXC's accusations and bile. Eventually, LXC wears himself down into sobs, collapsing in a corner. As calmly as you would approach a frightened animal, NHS approaches him with his personal handkerchief and embraces LXC, pulling him into his lap and stroking his hair until the sobbing subsides. He coos and shushes and never says a word about LXC's accusations. What is there to say?

The next day, LXC awakes, groggy, but... clear-headed. Clear-headed for the first time in months. And when he comes to breakfast with NHS, the room he destroyed now clean and beautiful as if it had never seen violence, and NHS just as bubbly and cheerful as ever, he finds he can reciprocate. Instead of reluctantly accepting, NHS' overbearing energy, he can meet with it and actually smile and take part in his joy. NHS' eyebrows raise ever so slightly, but he then returns to his delighted thrills, talking at an ever more rapid pace in his enthusiasm and LXC can laugh at what he has to say.

What happened between them, LXC would struggle to put into words. All he can say, even to himself, is that he understands now. Or, he at least understands enough. There is something dark and endless in NHS, but so there is in him, and so there was in JGY and, if he’s being honest, NMJ. Everyone he’s ever loved had some terrible truth inside them. And what made him afraid of NHS was just as much his fear of himself and what he has become, maybe what he always was. But there is also gentleness and kindness and love. And while that doesn’t cancel out what happened, he thinks he begins to see why NHS has made the choices he has, why he’s working so hard to help, and it isn’t merely guilt. He’s come to understand that many things can be true at once. He may never again be the bastion of purity and good intention that he was. But that doesn’t mean he is naught but a burden to all and better off dead. Maybe there is still good he can do. Maybe he can start here.

I think that's a lot to work with there, anon. The struggle of any LXC ship post-canon is just keeping him alive. He so badly wants to stop existing because he can't handle all of it being true at once, he can't reconcile what he knows and what he knows. For my money, anyone would struggle trying to talk him down from just slipping into the dirt with his beloveds, but NHS might stand a better chance than most because he has never been pure, he has never had the luxury of innocence. He has always been a calculating and reserved creature and because of that, he has more kindness than anyone for people who are struggling with their nature. After knowing LXC so well for so many years, after knowing him as NMJ's dearest companion until JGY, I think NHS has always seen the best in LXC and would have unshakeable faith that he can come out of this if he lets himself. He would really believe that LXC can be just as good and kind and gentle as ever, knowing the blood of JGY is on his hands. Because NHS is already a monster, he has an infinite capacity for seeing and loving the monstrousness in others and understanding that being a monster does not mean you cannot do good. Very few people I think would be able to convince LXC of the same.

I also just love the psychological horror of LXC being restored to life only to fall into bed with NHS. I just think that's really, really funny.

[memory-lane-and-back-again]

I personally feel this is a woeful misinterpretation of Jiang Cheng’s character. Only in the final scene when we as the audience learn of Jiang Cheng’s sacrifice does he truly let go of the debt between them. This one side debt of resentment Jiang cheng has been holding onto for really long

To explain this further, he doesn’t tell Wei Wuxian as a matter of pride; he can’t be better than Wei Wuxian in any other way but at least he can be the more morally upstanding and noble cultivator. Whenever we seen Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian interacting in their past, JC nearly always takes a chance to berate wwx for his ‘misbehaviour’ and act more mature. The most notable example off the top of my head is the lotus pier extra where wwx is flirting with the girls on the pier and jc decides not to join in because, among other reasons, it’s silly.

It makes wwx’s ‘fall’ to demonic cultivation even more notable bc jc suddenly becomes this hero whose whole family is taken away tragically by the scoundrel they treated like family. The fact that there are tales about how it is jc who finished of the yiling laozu emphasise the poetic justice and morally upstanding position jc takes within the in-world inaccurate narrative—the one we hear right at the beginning that we discover to be false the more we read.

In my opinion part of the reason jc react to poorly to the golden core reveal is because jc’s great sacrifice is suddenly overshadowed (again) by wwx’s even greater sacrfice. Wwx outlines his reason for not saying anything about what he did, bc jc is too competitive, which is reaffirmed to be correct when jc’s first gripe with wwx’s golden core reveal is ‘you must think you’re so righteous and noble…’ because it not only neutralises but decimates every ‘noble action’ jiang cheng took after that. He didn’t defeat a demonic cultivator who destroyed the sect that raise him, he destroyed the martial brother who sacrificed his golden core for him and turned to utilising resentment as a way to win the war.

Think about it: if you suddenly learnt that the person you grew up with as almost family that had betrayed you unforgivable actually hadn’t betrayed you but hid the truth of their sacrifice, why would your first reaction be to mock the righteousness of it? It speaks to the incredible insecurity jc has of not living up to the yunmeng jiang motto of achieving the impossible—which, again, wwx does by transplanting his golden core. At this stage, jc is not Over the debt he perceives wwx to owe his family because ultimately he is classist and percieves wwx as lesser.

Jc actively holding wwx accountable for his family’s destruction for Years (which wwx realistically could not have helped) as well as the sacrifice of his golden core over him for just as long reflects how wwx is percieved even then as ‘other’ he is not a part of the yunmeng jiang family that just had their sect destroyed, he is the reason why; he is not a brother worth sacrificing for, he is a servant who should now be honour bound to jc for this great and noble sacrifice.

Certainly, jiang cheng does get over this and come for (well jin ling really) them in the temple (im counting wwx because I regard him bringing chengching as an apology and olive branch), but his initial scorn at righteousness forground where his priorities lie: in still trying to be better than wwx.

Their relationship is complex, but due to the discordant way wwx is integrated into the yunmeng jiang household: recieving the affection from jfm of a son jc can naver hope to be; the responsibilities of a servant instead of an heir from jfm; the love of a sister from jyl; the scorn of a misbehaving out of line servant from yzy, jc’s own perception of wwx is very clouded (not to speak of wwx’s perception of himself). He is a brother when it is convenient to jc (twin prides of yunmeng) and a servant when he needs to feel like he is in control (you needs to be carrying your sword).

There is a reason why, despite jc’s fearsome rep for destroying demonic cultivators, he doesn’t destroy wwx the first chance he get when lwj isn’t there. He talks—brashly and threateningly but it is not the expected picture of sandue shenshong whose foul temper sparks zidian. There’s a reason he hold onto chengqing for so long… jc and the relationship he has with wwx is so, so complex.

On one hand, he does care about him; on the other, wwx is the easiest person to blame for his father disinterest, his mother’s disappointment, his sister’s split affection and death. Wwx is the walking mirror that shines all jc’s insecurities right back in his face and for the record that’s not wwx’s fault, he cannot help but be that impressive and he tries not to take away from jc’s own prowess by, in many ways, being jc’s number one suppprter but he doesn’t do that by making himself smaller. Significantly their dynamic is revealed under duress when jfm order wwx to protect his son and then jc winds up strangling wwx and yelling about how it is his fault. These interactions are key to unveiling the core of their relationship and where it lies in the social hierarchy because he is a protector and not a part of the family to bw protected, an outlet for frustration and not a family member to find solidarity with. (I also tenuously suspect jfm’s order is why jc chooses to get captured; to show he is just as capable of protecting wwx. Yes brotherly love in part, but not just brotherly love.)

Does jiang cheng move on? Yes, at the very end. Coming back to chenching, when jc hands it over, he relinquishes his hold of the idea that wwx is morally inferior to him and lets wwx neutralise the threat of nmj and jgy. This is further enforced by the fact that he doesnt his jin ling—-he raises his hand but the hit never lands.

I personally feel that calling jc a self sacrificing martyr from start to end oversimplifies his character majorly because it doesn’t account for his childhood pressure to be the best because he is the heir. Social heirarchy plays such a significant role in mdzs which is why there are signifant character with backgrounds like wwx who do different things and all die in the end (jgy and mzy and xy) as it reflects how those of lower status and regard, bastards, orphans, servants, will always be punished and suffer over the rich, irrespective of how heinous their crimes or intentions. Jiang cheng likewise reflects the opposite side of society where he feels the pressure to remain superior and how he suffers in his childhood reflects how this is harmful (I like to think of a gun: it shoots a bullet but it still recoils, one way does infinitely more damage but it still makes holding the gun a heavy burden to deal with).

His martyrdom isn’t for purely selfless reasons, it’s laced with his feelings of inferiority that he displaces onto wwx. He does love him, yes, but he cannot see that through the social prejudice and years of hatred until the very end of the book when he lets go of his anger and (in a very Freudian way if i do say so myself) some of the violence he shares with him mother. Jiang cheng is a beautiful character precisely because he has a character arc of change and what little we see of him shows us his growth.

Jiang Cheng never brought up his own sacrifice because he didn't want Wei Wuxian to feel indebted to him again, not because it would make his own sacrifice obsolete.

He wanted to let him go so he could be free to live with Lan Wangji and maybe to hopefully even start afresh again.

Jin Ling, who knows his uncle well, even acknowledges that he wanted to say something to Wei Wuxian when the pair left.

Jiang Cheng is a selfless person for this reason. He knew how much it would destroy Wei Wuxian if he told him what really happened.

He never held his sacrifice over him in that moment. He never held it over him in the core reveal scene. And he never held it over him even when their tensions first started when Wei Wuxian decided to protect the Wen and left him for a sect that tried to destroy his own.

Jiang Cheng kept that secret to himself because he understood Wei Wuxian and ultimately because he loves him. He doesn't want Wei Wuxian to owe him anything, and he doesn't want him to feel indebted to him. All he wanted was his bro back. And even then, he let Wei Wuxian go in the end because he saw that that was what he wanted.

Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian both decided to move on in the end so they can grow into better people. The JC antis in this tag, who keep bringing up the same discourse, should do the same thing. They might feel relief if they do. 🥰

[sentienceisoverrated]

Thank you for that MDZS post! It was a breath of fresh air!

MDZS tumblr has its own sects dedicated to different characters. They all have each other blocked but they also can't stop making snide comments about each other... and I'm here like... I wanted to discuss MDZS and read impassioned meta,not RP inter-sect conflicts??

You're so right about the fact that these characters are put in impossible situations,on purpose. That is the joy of the story! The Jiang Cheng & Wei Wuxian relationship can't be fixed and it's meant to be that way and to hurt. On some days I relate to Jiang Cheng,who did his duty and rebuilt his clan,but betrayed his life debt to the Wens and WWX(he should not have done that!!). And on other days I relate to Wei Wuxian,who followed his principles and protected the Wen remnants at the cost of everything else,but also who tricked and lied to his brother by giving him a core he never asked for(he should not have done that!!). I can get angry on behalf of each of them. But I can also resent each of them. Which other story will fill me up so well with so many various conflicting emotions? Is that not why we're reading or consuming media? To feel?

Instead this place is like a sports competition now. Team JC or Team WWX or Team JGY. There is no fun in that.

Thank you anon!

I joined this fandom a few months ago after watching The Untamed and honestly I thought I was missing something with all those posts. After watching the animation and reading the books, I was even more confused.

People tend to pick favourites and defend them at all costs, and with a story like mdzs, I guess that also means hating on the characters that hurt them (which is literally every character). It bothered me, because when people hate others they often look past the things they can’t control, and after seeing so many of those posts, I just felt the need to raise a neutral stance.

You’re right, Tumblr does seem to have its own sects, but I’m glad someone out there agrees with me. ^.^

[runespoor7]

What first made you ship chengqingxian?

several factors! Mostly the fact that I love when all of JC's important relationships except JL are because of/thanks to WWX, and the friendship between WWX and WQ is my favorite (she's his intellectual equal! she's the one person he respects! she's the one who said the thank you and I'm sorry line, which he remembers and respects in his second life! do you know how rare that is! they bonded over mad immoral impossible science! to be fair the WN scene of boasting for his sister's achievements did a lot to get me to realize the extent to which she and WWX are similar.). @demoiselledefortune and I had also spoken about WQ/JC as a good possible crackship for JC - that was before Untamed came out.

I like the idea of the three of them together because they all have things they'd prioritize over the other two (not necessarily easily!) and they're all the sort of gremlin who goes "hm, yes in a minute" when being persuaded to go to bed (JC: busy with sect stuff; WQ/WWX: busy with research, or in WQ's case work) and then proceed to work for six more hours. They're cool because whenever there's a disagreement the sides are up in the air, depending on the issue.

Also if I'm going to sexualize the GC transfer I should extend the same logic to WQ's participation. Yes, she wasn't JC's beloved shixiong whom he trusted with everything, but she had them laying down. She's the one who performed the "operation". She impersonated Baoshan Sanren. She lied to JC so she could do what she wanted with him (it was what her brother asked her, and it stroked her ego - to be able to test her theory!) and she betrayed her sect in one fell swoop and it landed her and hers in the BM with a dead brother. Hybris, etc.

Anyway I think her and WWX's dehumanizing of JC for the purpose of the transfer is really fascinating and hot. WQ coming to know JC beyond his being her experimental subject is interesting - especially since when WQ isn't busy committing treason for the sake of ego/science/her brother asked, they have similar priorities! JC coming to know the woman who saved him (on WWX asking!) and whose voice he may still hear in his dreams as Baoshan Sanren's is fascinating! WWX should have a smart friend at home that he can rope into mad science, preferably on one of their loved ones, for their own good! WWX and WQ both can look at JC like this is theirs. They did that. WQ rebuilt him up and WWX is so deeply embedded in JC's identity that if you take it out what's left wouldn't be JC anymore. It's a ship that's easier to implement with a canon divergence starting sometime before JZX bites it, which is a bit inconvenient, or you need to write about WQ surviving if you want to set it after WWX's resurrection, so there are practical downsides. Which probably explains why I haven't written much of them.

they could be happy and there's potential for horrendously fraught and fucked-up crimes against JC's personal agency, so I'm all for it.

[reileinaxiu]

MDZS Fanon Peeve: WWX and JWY Reconciliation (🤢🤮)

Warnings: Opinionated and probably biased JC bashing. Some cursing. Read at your discretion.

As much as I despise JWY he was a perfectly written character. As perfect as you can write an unhinged insecure megalomaniac underneath the facade of a political leader with their flaws(a lot of flaws).

But lets talk about the ending where people think JWY has changed for the better. Enough change that despite the unlikelihood there is a possibility for reconciliation which is to say none on my part. Which also infuriates me when browsing for fics.

One encounter can definitely change someone's perspective but that doesn't change every aspect of their world view. Especially someone late in their life and as set in their ways is as JWY.

Sure the Golden Core reveal and encounter with JGY might have JWY rethinking of his treatment of WWX during his first life.

But what about his anger about the burning of Lotus Pier, his sister's death, his distaste for LWJ and WWX's relationship? Don't tell me his entire world view just flipped just because he recognized WWX leaving the sect was as his fault? Don't tell me he learned to be a better uncle to JRL because he realized he was a terrible guardian and role model? No one shall dare tell me that JWY stopped being homophobic after the book. Would he actually be a better person just because he learned that the origin of the core he received was falsified?

That encounter had no repentance to the 13 years of hunting "demonic cultivators".

That scene had no realizations about how badly he messed up JRL. In fact he even uses JRL as an excuse to further attack WWX stating the JRL was parentless because of him. JWY literally pushes and shouts at JRL everytime he tries to help.

If this is being a good uncle, then JGY was a f***ing saint to JRL.

What we got out of it was him still feeling that WWX was the cause of the Massacre and the catalyst for his sister's death and how he betrayed him for the Wens. And how shitty he treated his own nephew who was just worried about his health. Oh and his inferiority complex the size of the Pacific.

He spits all that gasoline to set fire to already charred wood.

WWX: Take it as my repayment to the Jiang Family

JWY: Repayment, to my father, my mother, my sister?

WWX: Forget it it's all in the past, let's not mention it again.

He still had the f***ing gall to ask more from WWX as if those people were still alive and that his Golden Core and sufferings weren't enough. As if WWX needs to do more to recompense for the abysmal treatment he received in Lotus Pier. At least WWX has enough emotional maturity for the entirety of the story.

Boohoo. Spare me the tears. That was probably the most unsympathetic and pathetic waterworks I have seen to date.

All he learned was to leave WWX alone. Because nothing good comes out of trying to take what was never owed. a debt that was already paid.

So yeah. There's no changing angry toxic grapes so late in life. We get sh**** wine from fermenting wrongly from the start.

Just because they've agreed to forget doesn't mean they will ever forgive. What JWY became and what his part in the demise of the Wen Remnants is unforgivable to WWX. And to JWY, WWX's 'betrayal'(I laugh at JC stans in my head) is unforgivable to him.

Don't ever mention any possibilities of a WWX and JWY reconciliation to me. That tag should burn.

[wei-meddling-wuxian]

Just added notes to this wonderful meta (this was meant to be short but my love of Jiang Cheng and Jin Ling is vast)

the fact that Jin Ling threatens MXY!WWX with his Jiujiu, JC and not his paternal uncle who is the chief cultivator and technically has more power speaks volumes. Also Jin Ling pulls shit that Jiang Cheng would never dream of doing with his mom because of how confident he is in the love that Jiang Cheng has for him

I genuinely think that if he didn't have Yunmeng Jiang to care for, he would have tried harder to protect and follow Wei Wuxian - but he's also keenly aware that he's not the only one that would pay for the consequences of his actions and he takes that seriously which i love (there's a reason why IRL we aren't all going to every protest and rioting, we have work and school and real obligations that not only impact us but those around us)

There have been arguments that LP didn't burn down but that isn't the point. Architecture can be rebuilt, but people can't come back to life. Considering everything was locked down, Jiang Cheng, Wei Wuxian and Jiang Yanli essentially lost every familiar face and Jiang Cheng had to face the brunt of it. And Jiang Cheng, who is not someone particularly personable, managed to recruit people before they even took back Yunmeng Jiang. He's also one of the few people who considers the consequences of his actions and what the next steps are which are great qualities in a leader.

He's so so flawed in such a real way. But he also has such good qualities that make it worth getting through the barrier of thorns. Yea, he's resentful but it's clear that he loves Wei Wuxian more than that resentment. He hates quite easily but he still respected Jiang Yanli's decision to love and be with Jin Zixuan. Even with Jin Ling, he didn't have to be so close and familiar to him, he could have been a distant uncle but he chose to be involved even though Jin Ling is a reminder of everything he's lost (also bonus points to Wen Qing who told Wei Wuxian that she would have been worse when he was complaining that Jiang Cheng was being a bitch - get you a love interest who embraces the best and worst of you)

I love my little meowmeow who goes through so much pain with no chance to heal. Also the pain of Jiang Cheng doing all of this to ensure Jin Ling would have a better life only for his nephew to also be betrayed and have to lead a sect young (at least Jin Ling has his Jiujiu behind him vs. Jiang Cheng who had nothing)

Jiang Cheng even on surface level is incredible - A parental figure who's the lone survivor of his family, wears royal purple, takes after his badsss mom and wields, arguably, the best weapon in the series, Zidian, AN ELECTRIC WHIP THAT CAN CHANGE SHAPE AND CAN DUAL WIELD-- (I could go on for days)

Other Wang Zhuocheng scenes of note:

the multiple minutes long hug he gives Yanli after they reunite (like the camera pans over to LWJ and you can see them hugging in the background)

JC's face in the background as Wei Wuxian reunites with Yanli after being tossed into the burial mounds

Jiang Cheng's conflicted expression as Wei Wuxian uses demonic cultivation using Chenqing

[Also if it makes you feel better, I got on twitter for Jiang Cheng so I know the feeling]

What do you like about jc? Why he is your favorite?

Anon, this has been sitting in my inbox because I was afraid to open this can of worms. I've rotated this character nonstop for, like, the past three years. I got on Tumblr because of this character. I'm not even that wild about MDZS as a novel! I'm a SVSSS main! I don't know how I ended up here!

He loves his nephew so much. I love what we get about Jiang Cheng's relationship with Jin Ling, who had what was probably an indescribably weird childhood, but who has never once thought to himself that his uncle didn't love him. Jin Ling is evidently spoiled and rude but also so genuinely courageous, forgiving, and loving in his horrible teenage way. I love these two and they love each other!

He's dutiful. I think people sometimes think of duty as a burden, and obviously it can be, but I also think of it as an expression of care towards others. He sincerely cares about his responsibilities, which include all of the people who joined the Jiang sect to follow him.

He's supremely competent. We see the poor guy fail a lot, but he restored a massacred sect to Great Sect status in 13-15 years with what seems like no familial support and no apparent close external connections. He must be really, really good at his job.

He's such a bitch. He's here to make things hard and unpleasant on purpose! He's witty and will say the meanest possible thing he can think of in a fight! Just like his mother, he can sense your insecurities like a bloodhound and tear into them at will! I think this is a good and endearing quality (for a character, obviously).

He is profoundly screwed by the narrative. Dude is, as @winepresswrath puts it, "ontologically cursed." He exists to fail. His creator made him the most determined little toaster and then put him in 1000 unwinnable situations. He is trapped in, like, a bespoke torment matrix, that he only really escapes at the end of canon (dignity in tatters but nephew in hand).

Killer style in CQL and maybe also the donghua from what I've seen of the gifs? Fashionable king. Deeply uncool despite the drip, which endears him to me more.

Wang Zhuocheng's crying face. Yes, it's that gif set again. It haunts my dreams.

[plan-d-to-i]

As much as I have mixed feelings about JYL at Nightless City, I’ll never forgive JC taking away the fact it was her choice to be there and her wanting WWX to live just so he could have an excuse to hate WWX more. It’s disgusting how he lies about her death and why and how she died just so he can justify the siege, his hatred, and drag JL into hating WWX even more also.

And I hate how JC stans agree with him and act like it’s all WWX’s fault JYL sacrifices herself for him and totally ignore JC spitting in the face of her final moments by leading the siege.

People want to try talk saying JC deserved his family respected during the ancestor hall scene? Well what about him respecting his sisters final wishes and NOT consistently trying to kill the person she wanted to live?

Agreed. This illustrates it perfectly :

Jiang Cheng replied, “How much has my family given for you? I’m his son. I’m the heir of the Yunmeng Jiang Sect. But all those years, I was never enough next to you. Their love, their dedication, even their life! The lives of my father, mother, older sister, and even Jin ZiXuan! Because of you, all that’s left now is an orphaned Jin Ling!”

With a terrible shudder, Jin Ling’s shoulders slumped. His expression waned as well. Wei WuXian’s lips moved but, ultimately, he couldn’t say a word. Lan WangJi turned to him and held his hand. Jiang Cheng, however, was still not finished. He scathed without holding back, “Wei WuXian, who’s the one who went back on his words? Who’s the one who betrayed our Jiang Sect? Who’s the one that told me that when I became the sect leader, you’d be my subordinate, you’d support me forever, that if the Gusu Lan Sect has Two Jades then the Yunmeng Jiang Sect would have Two Prides, that you wouldn’t ever betray the Jiang Sect?! You tell me—who said those words?! I’m asking you, who said those words?! Did you fucking swallow them all?! (102)

jc is all about jc. He lied to Jin Ling all these years. He doesn't give a fuck how his words affect him. He claimed to care so much about YanLi but he never considered how his mother would have raised him w warmth and affection and instead treated him like crap. Drove him to put himself in mortal danger. He has the gall to talk about what WWX owes HIM after he fucking led a siege that killed him. Dude has no shame or empathy. It's always the jc sob story. His stans relate bc they're the kind of ppl who think if you just bamboozle others into thinking you're a victim you can behave however you want and take zero responsibility for your bs. Then they get mad no one wants to fw them. 🌝

[r95irth]

Small rant head feel free to skip uu

An this is not NMJ-friendly (I swear I like this character but I'm tired of seeing him depicted as flawless/innocent victim in the fandom and I'm tired of seeing 3zun with only JGY being fixe in the trio when damn NMJ has a lot of fixing to go through too, in my opinion even more than JGY)

I also want to add that (in the novel) NMJ and JGY met and had been friends for a few months AT MOST (since the sunshot is 2 years long and we know JGY had first helped LXC hide, then got into the army and been in NMJ's army -then NMJ notices him and makes him his deputee- THEN he is sent away with recommendation letter at the Jin for a short period before he flees en becomes a spy at the Wen side) So yes on 2 years time span it's not long.

NMJ has been furious that his 1 subordinate was not the man he thought he was / was not 100% honest with him after a few months of knowing him. That is alone fucked up for me (people are allowed, especially when they are your subordinate to not be 100% honest. You are their boss. If you convince himself you are friend that's ON YOU) and NMJ remains angry about that fact for YEARS.

I know lot of people like to say "but NMJ saved MY from bullies and gave him a promotion!!" so what? It forces MY to befriend with NMJ? (especially when you read the scene you can see that MY is worried about NMJ's action and future bullying that will come with the promotion. Not saying NMJ shouldn't have promoted MY or defended him, it's one of NMJ's action for MY that is good I won't deny that and shows NMJ's righteousness. BUT it also shows his lack of understanding due to his "privileged" life and rank. And later this fear DOES come to fruition as we have scene where people just bully MY in a more subtle way that NMJ does not react to bc he doesn't see it (LXC does))

So yeah in a few months of knowing him NMJ somehow decided what MY's personality was like, and that they were friends and the one person he could trust. and that's very sad that it's not the case, bc MY is not NMj's friend, he is his subordinate, and he doesn't owe him total honesty. and when he realizes it's not the case NMJ legimitaly feels angry and betrayed.

(Okay he was also very angry about the war-murders he witnessed him doing twice >> that's a legit good reason to be angry (though he does not even ask for explanations and makes up his mind immediately and when given a legit good explanation decide to disregard it completely))

Because of all this *shows above* NMJ decides he is ALLOWED to threaten JGY in their brotherhood vows (that is not supposed to sound like that) and to be harsh and berate JGY after the war at every occasion.

JGY remained loyal and even tried to help cure NMJ for YEARS, (we know that it lasted at least the 2 yeas after sunshot where WWX is at BM + 2 years after WWX's death with the XY's troubles SO the minimum of 4 years in total) despite being called out at every single one of his action and doubted and called murderer/devious/snake...

So yeah, at one point when NMJ kicked out of the stair (reliving his worst childhood memory of his father doing the same which all the cultivation world know and laugh about) called him the son of a prostitute (when NMJ knows it hurts him) and literally getting his saber out and stating he is going to murder him because he is irredeemable to the 1 friend JGY has (LXC) - I understand 100% JGY going "you know what fuck you" and stop using the healing song that slow down NMJ's INEVITABLE DOOM (because saber kill all the nie early) and start using one song that worsen it so NMJ dies faster. (and if it hits the trauma of seeing his own father dying of Qi deviation? That's karma, they're even, JGY can also makes you relive your trauma NMJ :))

After 4 years of constant bullying (let's call a cat a cat) + seeing NMJ going as far as burn his beloved's brother treasures in a fit of anger + knowing it's going to get worse no matter what and that this saber will kill him + this event - yeah well I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't have lasted this long.

NMJ tried to kill JGY 4 times depending of your adaptation.

(In CQL, NMJ is even ready to kill MY without a trial, like right here and now after witnessing the murder during a siege. Then he tries to kill him a second time after the war, when JGY comes to say sorry about what he had to do to NMJ as a spy (Notices JGY said sorry this is often forgotten. NMJ never ever say sorry.) and JGY HAD JUST SLAYED THE TYRANT AND SAVED NMJ's ASS. LXC has to STOP the blade for fuck's sake.)) After arrives the stair incident that I already pointed out there's the last time as NMJ is QI deviating his first reaction is what? To kill JGY. He is dying bleeding from all orifice and his last action is to kill JGY.It shows how obsessive he was about JGY for me. This obsession continues as he is a fierce corpse, to the point that JGY has to chop his body off to stop him. (That's not done bc it's cruel, it's done because ie the corpse keeps his legs then he keeps running after him)

JGY tried once to kill NMJ and succeeded and at this point, I just say it's fair game and one was just more competent than the other.

People loves to say "YEaaaah but NMJ tried to kill JGY only because of the saber curse! It's not a conscious decision while JGY premeditated the murder!!" (yay because JGY can totally win a fight against the mountain of muscles an enraged NMJ is)

NMJ's dying scene is the result of the saber curse, all the others are his own and done consciously. He is still leading his own damn sect for years after the sunshot, if he was this crazy he would not be leading anything. But no he is this crazy only with JGY.

(and the Wen, because people often forget he is with the cultivation world who think all the Wen should die, even children and elderly because they didn't rebel against WRH during the war - Which OOOOoohh strange when MY rebels during the war that does not count as righteous anymore)

And NMJ also is part of a sect whose cultivator's body gets sealed with their saber because they're dangerous and keeps on killing. And to suppress them his sect has to find bodies to seal with their deceased so the saber is too busy fighting to escape.

And let's talk about the other thing he reproach JGY : lying. Can we talk about lying? NMJ is hiding his sect's tomb. Okay we can say "it's not his secret to tell it's his sect's" fine. He is hiding the SABER CURSE to NHS, and the fact that NMJ IS DYING.

So NMJ has absolutely no legitimate foot to stand on when it comes to : demonic cultivation and desacralization of the dead + murder (he is a general of the war, and where does the body for the Nie tomb come from huh?) + lying.

NMJ is a very interesting character, (he had to see his father die, know he is afflicted with the same curse and live with it since he has been a kid, has to take care of his father's sect and his baby brother from a young age, and he has to deal with his sect's secret that he probably disapproves. Despite all that he honestly wants to do what is right. The problem is what he judges as right is very short-sighed.) his biggest flaws are his hypocrisy, his black-and-white view of the world, his privileged ass, his anger management problem, his obsessive and destructive tendencies and his damn "honorable" suicidal mindset. (can we talk about his tendency to resolve a morality problem with "then you die an honorable death?"/ "then you sacrifice yourself!")

I have yet to see a fic where all of these flaws are depicted. I stopped reading Nieyao completely because most of the fic about them are focusing on fixing JGY (when really, JGY is the easiest to solve, you put him in a safe place, make him equal with his LI, manage the break up with his father, then work on his trust issue/speaking to someone first when you face a problem so he doesn't tackle this himself, see his plans go so awry until the only solution he has left to fix his own mess is murder) When NMJ has to fix his PRIVILEDGED WORLD VIEW. Like tackle this in real life. Have you ever had to face someone so privileged that they don't get that poor student had to work twice harder than a rich student to get to the same school? (But they are at the same school they took the same year's exam!! they're equaaaaallll) yeah, try to reason someone like that. That's what JGY had to face with NMJ.

I love 3Zun, I really DO. (though I do prefer Xiyao more) But one of the biggest problem between JGY and NMJ is that facing death :

JGY will always find a way to survive whereas NMJ will find an honorable way to die.

NMJ’s concerns about JGY: He did a bad thing one time and now I am suspicious of his every move with no evidence. 

JGY’s concerns about NMJ: he has repeatedly tried to murder me. 

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

I got into mdzs through the donghua and at first I was like "the baby grape's life is so sad 🥺" but then I see him do nothing but yell and scream and keep getting in wwx's way and I got really annoyed. Like dude if you loathe conflict so much then why don't you take a page out of your sister's book and cook soup instead of berating the guy who is actually doing something. He and yzy don't want to make any efforts but scream like a banshee when things don't go the way they want. Whenever I see his stans say "oh but he was manipulated/didn't had a choice!" I feel like eye rolling my eyes out of the eye socket. Is he some damsel in distress that couldn't do anything? Hell even mianmian who once was a damsel in distress, had the guts to stand up for someone who helped her and when those trash sect leaders talked shit about her, she left like a self respecting person unlike jc who keeps licking their feet. SoCIAl hE1rArcHy? more like cowardice lol

Late replies~ (I'm sorry so sorry lol it has been very very busy in life)!

But I agree with a lot of what you write here, a lot of MXTX villains hold the same theme of very much having the free will (despite varying degrees of harshness within life) to do better, kinder, choose love over resentment/power/jealousy etc, yet at every turn not taking that choice. They choose to relish within that hate.

In MDZS when it comes to the likes of Madam Yu, Jiang Cheng, Jin Guangyao, and Xue Yang, they each have in common using their lack of happiness in their life to act like they never really had a choice when they chose their extremes. They place the blame on others,

Madam Yu places her lack of finding love not on herself because she is cruel and abrasive, but on Jiang Fengmian for not liking her as she is, he needs to change himself. Jiang Cheng uses the guilt he thinks Wei Wuxian should feel for saving others that were not the Jiangs as a vice grip promise that Wei Wuxian has chosen his loyalty wrong and betrayed him constantly, Wei Wuxian can not do right by the standards of Jiang Cheng much like what his mother used to do to him. Jin Guangyao uses the fact that his low status meant he had no choice but to choose cruelty to protect himself, even long after his own father was gone and dug his hole of violence even deeper than it was ever needed. Xue Yang blames the world for what he is and refuses to say he himself had any part of the cruelty he set on others for despising the way people judged him however rightly.

Jiang Cheng does not hate conflict, he actively creates it several times when it comes to Wei Wuxian, he simply uses that as the excuse that Wei Wuxian makes problems for him as the inverse of what Madam Yu tried to stir up with herself, Jiang Fengmian, and Cangse Sanren. The rumors of them conveniently mirror Jiang Cheng, Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji later in life. And Jiang Cheng actively fueled the rumors against Wei Wuxian when he simply could have stood with Mianmian and Lan Wangji before everything spiraled. He chose his own jealousy first out of spite even when the tools not to were in front of him.