#fight me hellen

[starfacenix]

*shakes fist* darn you Helios.

I hate the summertime.

I hate the heat, how it makes my skin feel, how unbearable it is, and how it makes me irritable. Lots of people get seasonal depression when the winter time comes around, but my depression has always gotten worse around the summertime.

And with the summertime, of course, comes with how much harder the sun shines down on us.

For months now, even before I jumped back into working with the gods and worshiping them, I’ve been, albeit sarcastically, muttering under my breath to Helios whenever the sun shines a little too brightly on me.

I’ve never reached out to him properly. I think I’m a little nervous to do so, actually. But it’s become something of a routine.

There’s a window in my bathroom that gives the sun the perfect chance to blind me while I’m showering. It’s happened dozens upon dozens of times. But now when it happens, I both praise and shake my fist at Helios.

It’s a jokingly antagonistic relationship, I think. I continue to battle between how unpleasant I find the sun and how the warmth of it will sometimes be just enough to make my shoulders relax; how it shining on me will allow me to take a deep breath and wash my hair while sunbeams hit my face, making my vision bright red even with my eyes closed.

I’ve found that by involving the gods in everything in my day to day life and routine, it’s made life just a bit more bearable and interesting.

While I still can’t stand the sun, I greet Helios with a smile.

The warmth I feel from the sun feels just a little less brutal than usual.

[royal-wren]

I was talking about the Hermes and Athene thing last week and today on the road home, she literally put her hand on my shoulder (mentally) and told me to chill as far as speed. I said what, is a cop coming? and got an immediate yes from her and not a minute and a half later they were right there. Hearing gods and being god-bothered (affectionate) is a double-edged sword.

[softapollo]

hermes was just... so nice and direct in a reading and im just kinda here like ;_; oh....

how does this keep happening lmao

[blossoming-dawn]

Can I manage to mediate and chill with Aphrodite every day? Sure!!

Does it still get me enough energy to get into the shower on a regular basis? NO!!!

[hiya-im-mary]

If there’s a movie made for LM3,I feel like Hellen should have a transatlantic accent!! Though,only when she has makeup on. Once she’s in her true form,that accent fades!

[snowyfrostshadows]

Hellen Gravely and her fifty GAJILLION lasers!

As if the absurd numbers of lasers in the boss fight wasn't enough, she floods the switch area too. Repeatedly.

[katerinaaqu]

Odysseus: Beloved by Athena

Gets hit by a boar who barely misses his bone and arteries. Is called to a 10 year war he never wished to be in and is being pushed by his peers do the most dirty work and traumatizing things. Single-handedly conquers a city and regrets it his whole life afterwards, spends 10 years in an arduous trip losing all his companions in the most nightmarish ways possible gets imprisoned and raped, enchanted and shipwrecked nearly loses his life and comes back to his house to find it full of thug princes who want to marry his wife and kill his son. He has to kill them all then prepare for a riot in his own kingdom that doesn't happen thankfully and then he will have to travel again to appease Poseidon before he can finally return home.

Diomedes: Beloved by Athena

Is orphaned at toddler/child age because his father was mortally wounded and in a moment of madness he performed cannibalism and Athena wasn't able to stop him. He is sworn revenge for his father since a child. He fights a war at a tender age he becomes a king of his own right and gets married probably before the age of 16. He fights another war to restore his grandfather to the throne. He is dragged to a 10 year long war where he plays central role and he is still pushed around by most his peers. He goes back to find his wife cheating on him and he is exiled of his own kingdom. He spends years in a foreign land and country founding cities and establishing hellenism before he is honored as a God.

Me: Athena, my girl...perhaps you should start worrying a bit LESS for your minions would ya?

[howtofightwrite]

Most traditional boxing instructors will tell you that if the opponent is taller than you, has longer arms than you, or is heavier than you, you're fucked and you need to stay extremely aware and work really hard to compensate for all the advantage he has over you.

In a recent forensic survey, it was determined that most traditional boxing instructors who get into real world altercations die when they're shot in the head.

This is the problem with a lot of these kinds of arguments. No one practices traditional boxing. At least, no one does so publicly. How do I know this? Because traditionally boxers fought in the nude. Yeah, we're not seeing that, are we? Now, maybe they meant bare knuckle boxing, but really no one does that either, these days. Boxing without safety equipment is not a particularly good idea, for fairly obvious reasons.

The only reason the word, “traditional,” is in the ask is to lend their statement unearned credibility. It's an attempt to make their statement sound more authoritative, without offering any evidence to support the statement.

Who said that?

“Traditional people did.”

Okay, but, 'traditionally,' people cleaned shit off their ass with a stick. So, maybe appealing to Hellenic sports isn't the best gauge of how a fight will play out.

Also, I know I just said it, but, who are these authoritative sports guys? Because they're not named. We're simply told, “most,” of them agree. Which starts to sound a lot like “four out of five dentists agree.” Who are these instructors? What do they teach? Why are the currently in prison for indecent exposure? And how much did you pay them to get their uninformed opinion? Salient questions which may need to be answered, if the original question wasn't invalid on its face.

Why do I say it's invalid?

Because boxing isn't fighting.

Boxing is a sport.

Boxing has rules.

Kick your opponent in the groin, or shin, and you're punished.

Step on their foot, push them, and watch them tumble to the ground before you start stomping on them, and you'll be punished.

Throwing your opponent will be punished.

And of course, as mentioned at the top, pulling out a gun and expanding your opponent's mental horizons is extremely frowned upon.

These are all things that can happen in a real fight.

These are all things that do not benefit from increased height or reach.

There is one genuinely accurate statement. In a fight, you do need to be very aware of what's going on around you. Everything else is the product of someone who's been punched in the head repeatedly until the CTEs got them thinking that boxing is analogous to a real fight in any way. (And, statistically, will probably end their career sitting in a jail cell over an aggravated assault charge, because their emotional self-control was completely destroyed by those same head injuries.)

The rules that boxers need to follow are designed to (somewhat) protect the participants. It reduces the dangers of a boxer being killed in the ring. In an observation that I would hope to be self-evident, those rules don't exist in actual combat.

It's also amusing, because the original Asker had to go so far as to single out an ill-defined, “traditional” boxing, because no other martial art they checked gave them the soundbite they wanted.

And, of course, women box. Historically, you could say, “traditionally,” there were even boxing matches between men and women. It wasn't until the 1880s that women were excluded from competitive boxing in the UK. (I'm not sure of the exact date when women were banned from boxing in the US, though that prohibition lasted for less than a century, before the modern return of women to the sport.)

So, either these “traditional instructors” don't know the history of their own sport... which doesn't sound particularly “traditional” to me, or they're full of shit.

My advice to everyone would be, maybe, don't take the advice of a sports coach about how he's secretly an absolute badass in all the delusional fantasies he's cooked up about how he'd like to inflict violence on others because they wouldn't date him.

-Starke

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[cosmic-ghost-hermit]

Which hellenic deity is reaching out to you?

Take what resonates and leave the rest behind but always be open to new experiences. Also thank you so much for all the support from yall. I really appreciate everyones feedback on my readings. It really solidifies the idea that i can do this professionally. I hope my readings assist yall more 💙

_________

PILE ONE

Astrology: Leo, Aquarius, Capricorn

Cards: 3 of pentacles, 10 of wands, 4 of swords, big picture thinking

Song: Beginnings by Madeon

Hey there, friend! You have a couple different deities from the hellenistic pantheon reaching out to you. Three to be exact. It seems like they have been reaching out to you for a while now. Either you haven't noticed or they have been keeping their identities secret from you. They have been watching you work your ass off trying to handle everything on your own. It seems like you have been rejecting their help because you have some pride in doing things independently. They want you to know that you are not weak by accepting help from anyone. The door is open to work with them if you ever you want to accept them. I see very clearly Lady Athena wants your attention. She has been looking after you since you were born. She is the main deity reaching out to you. There is also Lord Ares reaching out as well. I can deduce pretty easily that you have been through war your whole life. It could be internal war but it could also be literal. Both Lady Athena and Lord Ares want to take over the war for you so you don't need to fight anymore. They want you to rest. They want to take care of you so you can have a breath of fresh air that you don't breathe in battle. You have been fighting for so long. The last deity who wants to work with you is Mother Gaia herself. She wants to scoop you up in a cradle of comfort. I see you are a truly environmentally conscientious person and she really really likes that about you. I see you trying your best to be waste-free. She really likes when you go outside and appreciate her regularly. She sits with you whenever you are on your porch. The beautiful thing about all three of these entities reaching out to you is that it is an invitation. It is not a demand. They want to help you because they like you and everything you do intuitively. You really wouldn't have to change anything drastically about your routine to work with them. They love you for you and are only asking to help take some stuff off your plate.

PILE TWO

Astrology: Gemini, Libra, Pisces

Cards: Knight of Swords, Page of Cups, 7 of Cups, Water Your Garden

Song: Family by Mother Mother

Hello, pile 2! You have two deities reaching out to you. Lord Ares has been asking to work with you for months. I see that you might be too scared to work with him. You have definitely noticed his call already. You have seen vultures, horses, dragons' and dogs in places you should not have seen them. That's Lord Ares calling out to you. In dreams, he might appear to you as a shadowy figure even if it isn't a dark setting. He's seen how lonely you have been. He wants to help you. You don't need to be scared believe me. Mythologically he is probably the safest male god you could work with. He is a protector of SA survivors. I dunno if you have heard about the myth when he slaughtered his daughter's assaulter. I think the way you view Lord Ares is understandable. He is portrayed as this scary war god but genuinely he represents a lot more than just war. He is also a minor god of dance 💃 He wants you to know he wants to keep you safe and protect you. Lord Apollo is also reaching out to you. I see you find a lot of comfort in music which is why he is reaching out. I see you turning a lot of the pain you have been through into art. Lord Apollo wants to see you get the love you deserve for all the pain you endured. He and Ares want to work together to help you take care of yourself. There is such a tenderness and restful vibe in the energy I'm getting from the cards. They want you to know the scary parts are over and you can relax finally. Leave the scary things to them.

PILE THREE

Astrology: Cancer, Scorpio, Virgo

Cards: 10 of Cups, The Wheel of Fortune, 7 of Pentacles, Breath of the Cosmos

Song: He^rt by Starcadian

Hi pile 3! Welcome to your reading. The deity reaching out to you is attempting to be mysterious while also trying to get your attention so you might not have picked up on their signals that they sent out. I see Lady Artemis is this mysterious energy. Her symbols are deer, archery, wolves, wild plants, the moon and the stars. There are plenty more symbols of hers that I could name but I feel that she wants you to do your own research if you choose to work with her. I'm unsure what she wants to assist you with but I do know it is something that will fulfill you more than anything you have worked on before. She really desires to be there for you when you start this journey. I also see Zues wanting to help you as well. He specifically wants to assist you with something financial. I see you are working on something that you have given so much energy to. He really likes what you are making and wants to sponsor you and help you complete the task at hand. The work you are completing has something to do with speaking or maybe even writing. It looks like you could draw so much wealth from this endeavor. Use his connection to the planet Jupiter to your advantage. Jupiter is the planet of higher learning and abundance. Perhaps you are working on a thesis paper and he enjoys how you have spoken about the subject of this paper. These two don't seem to want to work together on anything. It feels more akin to them helping you in different areas of life just to give you a leg up. They welcome you with open arms.

PILE FOUR

Astrology: Aries, Sagittarius, Taurus

Cards: The Emperor, 6 of Wands, 9 of Wands, The Blue Flame

Song: Esctatic Baby by Yeasayer

Welcome pile four! I see 2 deities VERY clearly for you. They both only recently took an interest in you. Something changed very drastically in your life. This big change is what invited these two. The first is Lord Posideon. He saw the strength of your flame from the coastline. I have a feeling you are land-locked. You are as far from the sea as you possibly can be and he saw your passion from that distance. He is so intrigued by you. He wants to help kindle your flame so you don't burn out your passion too early. You felt so called to do whatever it is you are doing and you are giving it everything you have. Your whole soul is aimed at what lit this flame in you. He loves seeing how fired up you are. It's probably been a while since you felt this way. He wants to you slow your roll juuuuust a little bit. Don't burn out your fuel too quickly and cultivate your fire into victory. The other deity reaching out is Lord Dionysus. He wants to help you with the same thing Lord Posideon wants to help you with. He wants to see you bloom and grow. He wants to see your venture fruitful. He doesn't want your work to go unrewarded. I think you might smoke bud or something and he connects really well through that with you. Again the same message of "Don't over-do it" is coming through. They both love the enthusiasm you are giving but just make sure you are still caring for your body. Make sure you are setting good boundaries with yourself and your work. They can't wait to see where you go with this. Good luck, friend!

[boymanmaletheshequel]

One facet of Hellenistic and Roman, /Greco Roman paganism that I’ve always found extremely interesting to me, is how inherently human and relatable it’s gods, and their correlating counterparts are, especially when compared to deities in other ancient religions. They are divine, of course, this is made clear enough, but they all have aspects and traits to them that are inherently human. Rage, lust, joy, love, conflict. They represent, if nothing else, key elements of humanity and the human condition, which is something that no other ancient religion I’ve studied quite compares to in the same way. And not only that, but their relationship to people and humans as gods is clearly very symbiotic. They rely on their subjects for their fulfillment, interact with them directly on a regular basis, and often times even respect and revere them as not necessarily always equals, but as at the very least, creatures worthy of their consideration and respect, sometimes even falling in love with, and baring children with them. This is something that doesn’t really happen in any other ancient religion I’ve seen, sure, there are aspects of it in them, but not nearly are they portrayed as objectively or centrally as they are in Hellenism and Roman paganism. Each god represents some aspect of humanity in ways that are inherently non-Devine, Aphrodite is a lover, sometimes desperate to a vulnerable degree you wouldn’t expect a god to be. Dionysus is regularly consumed by madness as a result of his addiction and mental illness, and falls into spirals of depravity that are hauntingly ungodly. Artemis hunts even though she doesn’t need to, she respects her body as a goddess woman just as much as any human woman would, and fights back just as violently as well. Apollo finds much of his joy and happiness through the humans he falls in love with, and faces much of his suffering and sadness through them as well. Persephone fucking dies. maybe not literally in the sense of human, medical death, but absolutely metaphorically, and the grief her mother Demeter experiences is so inherently human, and so shockingly, gut wrenchingly tragic, that it is pretty obvious that this is what her story is meant to represent: a divine allegory for death and grief, an element that so many religions completely separate from their deities. Even Zeus, the primary deity, is a father figure who’s connection and relativity to fatherhood as seen in human men is almost identical. and if it weren’t for the pre-established lore and status of him as a an extremely powerful deity, there are moments in his Mythos where you might even forget that he’s a god, an all powerful, all divine, objectively non human god to begin with. I think it’s what makes Hellenism so emotional and so drawing to me, and to many other pagans, it’s a relationship that is mutual, and relatable, which is an element that is lacking in so many religions, even the major ones like Christianity and Islam. Yes, there are still elements of this in those religions, but it always feels like the stories constantly hammer in the fact that they are divine, so divine, so utterly unrelatable, so inherently disconnected from their subjects and their plights as a superior enitity, that there’s a limit to how connected one can feel to them. In hellenismos, this limit doesn’t seem to exist, and that’s something that makes it so much more personal and fascinating to me than any other religion I’ve studied. The gods are us, and we are the gods. At the end of the day, I think that’s what all religions should be about, and ultimately, are about, wether we realize it or not.

[elizabethemerald]

The Meeting

The Beginning of the New Pantheon: Part 3

Masterpost

“What do you mean, what?” Cassie demanded. “Do you know about Olympus and the Hellenic gods?” 

“Yes, we know about the Greek gods!” Sam snapped. “We’re not stupid you know!” 

“I’m just asking!” Cassie put her hands up in surrender. “I wasn’t certain if I had actually stumbled into an alternate dimension where instead of Olympians the domains were managed by sentient mayonnaise and the oceans were filled with shredded cheese.” 

Her statement knocked both of them onto their back foot in a way that announcing she was on a mission from Zeus didn’t. Maybe they were used to higher powers reaching out with missions? 

“Has that actually happened?” Tucker asked. 

Cassie took a moment to think about all of the weird alternate realities she and Young Justice had gone through. 

“Uh… not exactly, but pretty close sometimes.” Cassie said. She pulled out her JL comm “Anyways! I’m going to call for backup. I can explain more once they are on the way.” 

“You probably won’t get very much range on that thing.” Tucker said, looking at her comm. 

“Wha…t?” She looked down at her comm in confusion. 

The top of the line Wayne Tech communication device that Red Robin had personally modded and improved even beyond the rest of the League’s equipment was now a generic two way radio. Like something fresh from the box at Radio Shack, from back when Radio Shack still existed and was popular. Her confusion changed to mounting horror as she pulled out the palm computer that was capable of hacking into the pentagon and instead revealed a flip phone capable of playing snake (maybe). 

“Ok, while not an alternate universe full of mayonnaise, Amity Park is still apparently trapped backwards in time, and all technology is forced to match. Cool. Cool. That might make calling for help a little difficult.” 

Sam looked sympathetic as Cassie tried to contain her freak out. Tucker looked curious at the thought of whatever advanced technology that might be available outside the city. Cassie took a deep breath and steadied herself. 

“I’ll go for help personally as soon as I can, but in the meantime, I’m here now. If you two or Phantom need any help, I’ll do whatever I can.” Cassie declared, her voice once more steady and sure. 

“How do you know Phantom?” Sam demanded. 

Before Cassie could respond or explain, a wailing claxon sounded, the loudspeakers screaming a warning of some kind. Both Sam and Tucker tensed and Cassie prepared for a fight, whatever was coming, she would be here to help. 

.

Donna gave a small sigh of relief as she touched down just outside Titans Tower. Nightwing was there to greet her, and it was clear that the rest of those she had asked for were already here. She led the way to the Tower’s war room. By the time she had settled at the head, the rest of the table was full. Not everyone present would be part of the New Pantheon, but she knew those who would be needed the support from the rest. 

“Thank you all for meeting me so quickly.” Donna started. “Diana, Cassie and myself have just returned after being summoned to Mount Olympus by Zeus himself.” 

Everyone in the room sat forward, laser focused on her. She had to take a steadying breath. Sure, Zeus had named her the next Queen of Olympus, and it would be her duty to guide and lead the New Pantheon, but she was not alone. She had friends here, allies, some who would share the responsibilities, some who would willingly follow her orders. They could take the domains of the gods and make something better of them, for the whole planet. 

“They gave us dire news, and a mission, a larger mission than any we have faced before.” She watched as the others tensed, ready to spring into action, so she raised her hands a little. “The Earth is not currently in any danger. The threat that they foresee will come in decades, not days.” The room relaxed, the air feeling breathable once more. “Since we have been given the time to prepare, we can prevent what they predicted from impacting the denizens of Earth.” 

“Well then, what is this threat, so that we may vanquish?” Damian demanded, his hand tightly grasping a weapon, his chest puffed out so he could make up for his short stature. Donna carefully hid, her grin, he would not appreciate being taken less seriously. 

“The Gods of Olympus are dying.” Donna said, then she continued on to explain what she, Diana and Cassie had been told. 

“I’m not certain I trust when they say that there is nothing that can be done.” Red Robin said, leaning forward while he thought. “We’ve faced impossible and improbable before and succeeded.” 

“That’s true, but in the meantime, we should consider the option that has been provided, successors to the gods chosen from among our numbers.” Donna said, she knew no matter what she said that there would be some of them who would try and find an alternative, she wasn’t certain there was one, Greeks in general and the Olympians in particular weren’t known for giving up without a fight, at least as long as they had any other option. 

“Who was chosen to be a successor?” Impulse asked, then zipped around to the other side of the table, an armful of snacks appearing in his arms. 

“I was chosen by Zeus to be his successor and the next Queen of Olympus.” Donna said. 

She had mentally braced herself for disparaging remarks or someone contesting her potential rule, instead she was surprised by the outpouring of support from her companions. Everyone seemed to feel that Zeus had chosen well and that she deserved her future role. 

“You definitely should be Queen, but I’m kind of surprised Cassie didn’t end up as Zeus’ successor considering the whole lightning lasso thing she’s got going on.” Kon said. 

“Cassie was chosen by Ares to be his successor.” 

Donna could see the other three members of Young Justice scowl at the God of War’s involvement, except Dick quickly snapped his fingers at them. 

“Hey let’s keep our diplomatic faces on for the time being. I’m sure some of us aren’t happy with some of these decisions, but the last thing we want is for this to devolve into an unnecessary conflict with the Olympians.”

She smiled at him, glad for his support. The Olympians ruled through a monarchy, and the League teams knew they needed a single leader during a crisis, but maybe this New Pantheon could rule with something more egalitarian. 

“And speaking of our Boy Wonder, Nightwing, you were chosen by Apollo to be his successor. The League’s Sunshine boy will be our God of Light.” Donna announced with a smile, but when she met Dick’s eyes she knew he could see more truth in her words. Apollo was not just a god of light, he was also a God of Truth, which made perfect sense for a detective like Dick. Plus there were few who could equal Apollo’s wrath when scorned. 

“Wait, does that mean he’s your kid?” The younger Superboy, Jon asked. 

“We are not literally becoming the gods, we are taking their place.” Donna said quickly before anyone could get any weird ideas. “So no one needs to marry their sibling, no one needs to eat their children, and I will not be leaving a bunch of demi-god bastards all over the planet.”

“If Cassie was chosen by Ares, where is she?” Impulse asked. “Did he already make her a god and we missed it?” 

“No. The Olympians agreed not to elevate anyone until all of their chosen successors were together. Cassie went to make contact with a group of heroes who were not in the League database.” Donna watched as Red Robin frowned and started to type on his wrist computer. “According to Cassie they weren’t even on the super secret Young Justice only database that the rest of us are supposed to pretend we don’t know about.” 

His frown grew more pronounced and Dick smiled and reached over and ruffled his hair. 

“So who are these heroes we’ve apparently never heard of, but have caught the attention of the Olympians?” Dick asked, half to take the attention off Tim and half out of genuine curiosity. 

“None of them have names I recognize, half of them don’t even have hero names, just regular civilian names.” Donna replied as she pulled out her copy of the list. She had less information on the new heroes as reaching out to them wasn’t her responsibility.

“Maybe it's something like Constantine?” Stephanie asked. “He’s always just known by his full name, even though his enemies call him the Hellblazer.” 

“They could also face magical threats of some kind.” Raven said, her hair floating a little and the shadow under her writhing for a moment. “Demonic incursions are usually handled without the input or knowledge of the rest of the League.”

Donna bit her lip. As a demi-god, Cassie was one of the better members of the younger heroes to face a magical threat, but it was very possible for her to get in over her head. She would trust the younger girl, but if she didn’t report back by the time the rest of Young Justice and the Teen Titans were informed and gotten over their respective fits about it, she would have to go herself to ensure that Cassie was safe. 

Though how much trouble could she really get into in the middle of the country?

[transbutchblues]

could you please elaborate on your feelings on the gods' characterization in the wisdom saga? Not forcing you tho!

sure! keep in mind that i love EPIC and that even if i complain about things here, i totally respect the choices that Jorge makes. it’s his musical and i admire all the work put in the songs.

disclaimer : most of the time i try to dissociate EPIC from the Odyssey in my mind, because thinking of EPIC as an adaptation tends to make me upset due to how different it is. but it’s also amazing on its own! there are creative liberties that i deeply love (like having Odysseus know about Scylla but not telling anyone, and changing the context of the mutiny), others that i don’t like that much but that i can get behind, and others that i really dislike. i understand why everything is done the way it’s done, but i still have opinions.

before talking about the Wisdom Saga i’d like to explain how i felt about the gods in the other sagas. as a classics student and a hellenic polytheist i tend to dislike most modern portrayals of the gods, mostly because they’re usually flat and lack nuance. up until this saga, i had never been disappointed by any choice done regarding the gods in EPIC. they were all so interesting.

i loved Zeus in Thunder Bringer. it’s one of my favorite songs, and i found that Zeus was beautifully portrayed. he’s the villain, sure, he offers an awful choice (for the second time), but the situation was created by Odysseus and his men. i loved the lyrics and their double meaning.

this all fell apart in God Games, for me. it just didn’t feel like the same Zeus anymore. and as much as i try to dissociate EPIC from Homer’s epics, i love the Iliad and the Odyssey too much not to point out that Zeus would never be like that. in the Odyssey, Zeus immediately agrees with Athena on the fact that Odysseus must be freed from Calypso’s island. Poseidon is the only god who really wants to stop Odysseus, Zeus doesn’t exactly care about him. he knows Odysseus’ fate and he won’t go against it. besides, Athena is Zeus’ favorite daughter in Homer’s works. he loves her. he doesn’t like it when she defies her, that’s very clear in the Iliad, he even threatens her when she does that, but he loves her dearly and he gives her nearly everything she asks for. he would simply not strike her down like that. and Zeus has no reason to go against his own word. if he sets a challenge, he respects the terms. he’s a fair god, he’s a ruler, he’s all about divine justice. i don’t mind changes, but i dislike these ones.

and Athena… Athena was always the deity i felt the less sure about in EPIC. don’t get me wrong, i love her in the previous songs. but i never knew where exactly her character arc would bring her and i felt uneasy. now i know i was right to feel this way.

there had to be an explanation to the fact that Athena hadn’t helped Odysseus during the years he was imprisoned by Calypso. i understand why in EPIC, this explanation is that Odysseus and Athena fought and fell apart. in fact, i love My Goodbye. i think the way Odysseus is portrayed in the Cyclops Saga makes him way more of an asshole than he is in the Odyssey (and that’s alright by me!), because he’s stupid and hubristic and he refuses to listen to Athena. in the Odyssey, Athena never abandons Odysseus, she helps him during his entire journey. but if he had talked to her like he does in EPIC, she probably would have left him! i find their fight interesting, how cold Athena can be, how betrayed they both feel.

but! here comes the Wisdom Saga. and i love Athena in Little Wolf. i like her in God Games too. maybe even in Love in Paradise. but i can’t get over We’ll Be Fine, it just doesn’t sound right to me. i like Telemachus. but i hate that this is how Athena suddenly decides to go back to Odysseus. "i could sleep at night", really? why would she feel guilty about leaving a hero who refused to listen to her? i enjoyed how cold she was in My Goodbye, it was an interesting choice, and i would have liked for her to remain this way. or to change more slowly. the loneliness aspect could have been great if it had been explored more in depth (which i know wouldn’t have been possible since she doesn’t have enough songs to allow for slow character development). this just felt rushed and strange.

i would have liked for Athena not to reach out until Odysseus does. the moment where he cries out her name at the end of Love in Paradise is heart-wrenching, i love it. that’s when i would have loved for her to suddenly hear him and go back to him, instead of already being there. that would have been a moment where she could have decided to help him despite what he said and did, because she still cares about him and she sees him being so desperate. that could have been a moment where she feels guilty or lonely.

i know it’s done that way so that Telemachus saves Odysseus’ life by giving advice to Athena. it’s fine, it’s a nice idea. i understand why people like it, and i’m glad they do. it just feels off to me.

regarding the other gods: firstly, Calypso is great and i love her! now, on the other ones: i think instead of all this weird Zeus portrayal in God Games, it would have been nice to mention Poseidon. if there had to be a reason for Zeus not to want to release Odysseus, it could have been something to do with his brother. Apollo’s appearance felt unnecessary, his argument was weak, i’m still glad he was there but i didn’t love his portrayal. my opinion for Hephaestus is similar (though i liked his portrayal better, he just felt unnecessary), with another thought: i’m already starting to see more art of him and i really wish people would depict him as disabled, because not everybody does. i liked Aphrodite’s and Ares’ part, and Hera’s was fun. i don’t necessarily like the overall vibes of God Games but that’s just a matter of my music tastes, there are multiple songs in EPIC that i don’t really listen to because of that while still enjoying their role in the storyline.

obviously most people disagree with me, and i’m glad everyone seems to love that saga. some parts were just really not for me, namely, We’ll Be Fine, the beginning of Love in Paradise, and the end of God Games.

[sophieinwonderland]

"They're Hellenists now?!"

I love the title here, and how this r/systemscringe member is freaked out that systems do, in fact, exist in all religions!

That's right! Nowhere is safe from us!

Yes dear, people do tend to talk differently in spaces where they can be anonymous and not have their lives and reputations be ruined due to rampant ableism. The fact that many systems would be afraid to say this aloud because of social consequences, including losing support from friends, family, and possibly even their employment is really not the slam dunk you think it is.

I don't know why I keep reading takes from these subreddits when they all make me lose braincells every time.

First, seeing yourselves as separate people is fine. Healthy multiplicity is a valid goal.

But even if it wasn't and you take the outdated view that you need to see yourselves as one person in order to heal, people do counterproductive things all the time.

"Real people wouldn't do this because it's counterproductive" is the biggest indicator that you have somehow managed to go through your whole life without ever interacting with even one single real person. Because if you ever had, you would know better!

I know it's hard for you people, but please at least try to use your brains for once!

It's only one alter who wants to practice, so it would feel dishonest to claim they themselves, as the alter writing that post, was a follower of Artemis. It's likely they have a different religion.

Again though, this is an anonymous account.

And more importantly, people with DID... and I know this is a shock to r/systemscringe... ARE HUMAN BEINGS!!!

They are not a monolith, and even if some are reluctant to come out as having DID in public, it's pretty absurd to think they all will.

And it being a covert disorder doesn't mean that nobody with the disorder will ever talk about it. It means that it can be hard to detect given that amnesia can make switching hard to remember, and a lot of the experiences in it are internal. If someone with DID doesn't tell you, there's a good chance you wouldn't know. From the outside, they might just seem forgetful, and to change moods a lot.

The disorder being covert doesn't give you an excuse to fakeclaim anyone who talks about having it!

It's infuriating that r/systemscringe's standards for fakeclaiming is literally just... saying that you have a disorder...

And one final point is that for the people who are ashamed and won't talk about it, the reason for this is because of people like those on r/systemscringe who will treat them like they're either lying, crazy, OR BOTH! And the way to fight shame and normalize talking about DID and OSDD is to be brave, take risks, and talk about having them in places that aren't just about those disorders.

So congrats to that one user who went and spoke about their alters in the Hellenism subreddit. It's only a small step forward, but progress will be made by a million small steps like this one.

[cynicalclairvoyantcadaver]

Oh my god, ok listen, I need to fucking vent.

I'm rereading PJO and I'm reminded of how much I hate how Rick portrayed Ares in Percy Jackson.

A BULLY? A THIEF? A CRIMINAL?

YOU KNOW WHAT RICK DOES TO ARES? HE TURNS HIM INTO THE BULLY WHO GIVES KIDS WEDGIES, WHO TEASES YOU AND STEALS YOUR LUNCH MONEY.

AND THAT'S FUCKING WRONG, BECAUSE ARES IS NONE OF THAT!

ARES IS THE GOD YOU PRAY TO TO GIVE YOU THE STRENGTH TO FIGHT AGAINST THE BLOODY FATHERFUCKERS AND DICKSUCKERS. HE'S THE GOD WHO HELPS YOU GET UP AFTER YOU BREAKDOWN FROM THEM. HE'S THE GOD WHO MOTIVATES YOU TO FIGHT AND DEFEND YOURSELF FROM THEM.

Percy hates Ares, BUT RICK IS WRITING PERCY!

So either Rick Riordan or his son HALEY RIORDAN (because Rick writes Percy mainly for Haley) hates Ares.

And you know what's so sad?

That this could've been a moment for self-growth from Percy. That he could've looked at Ares, what the god did, and think, 'Hey, I kind of hate him, but he's not all bad. He loves his kids and has done good things. Not everyone I hate is a bad person just because I hate them.'

But no. No, he has to end Ares' section in PJ'S GREEK GODS AND HEROES BY REWRITING ARES' MYTHS AND TWISTING THEM TO MAKE HIS OWN VERSION.

I'm so sick of how Dick Diordan writes Ares. I'm so sick of it. I'm so sick of how he villainizes the crap out of him, because there's no fucking reason to do so.

Same with Aphrodite. I don't know what Rick's fucking deal is. Let the gods be gods.

I know this might be weird coming from me because I'm not a Greek or Hellenistic Pagan, but it's just, I've been having a hard time lately, and going through and reading Greek mythology and even Hellenism and Hellenistic Paganism has really helped me a lot, even if I'm an atheist myself, so yeah.

And you'll say, 'Oh, just don't read PJO!'

Well, PJO's permeated Greek mythology so hard that some idiots have trouble distinguishing PJO from the REAL thing, which is way better.

All of this had motivated me to finish my huge ass rant, possibly the longest one I'll ever make. Anyway, bye for now

[lunarforager]

Who is Athena?

Today's "Introduction to the Hellenic Gods" post is about the lovely Athena! She was the one I wanted to do next since I have a very personal connection with her. Athena is the deity I am currently trying to reach out to (so this post is acting as an offering of sorts) and she is also the deity I most associate most with my partner!

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Athena is the name given to the ancient Greek goddess of wisdom, strategic warfare, and handicraft. Her Roman equivalent is Minerva.

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Athena's birth myth has two versions that are very similar to one another. The first myth states that Athena was produced by Zeus' own thoughts and was 'born' by erputing from his forehead. In this myth there was no mother.

In the other version of her birth myth, Athena was instead a growing baby inside the goddess Metis who Zeus then swallowed. Athena then emerged fully formed from his forehead once again.

In both myths, Athena was said to emerge fully grown weilding both her spear and her shield and ready for battle.

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Pallas Athena is the most commonly referred to epithet of Athena. There are many explainations to how this epithet came to be, but most agree that it comes from the Greek word πάλλω, which means "to brandish". Pallas Athena refers specifically to the warlike attributes of Athena, with her being depicted in her full battle armor with her shield and her spear.

Athena Parthenos is another commonly used epithet meaning "Athena the Virgin". Athena, like Hestia and Artemis was a virgin goddess, but unlike Hestia (or Vesta) was not worshipped in that capacity. It was simply an attribute commonly given to her.

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Some interesting facts about Athena:

Athena is known to wield the shield Aegis, which is engraved with the face of the Gorgon, Medusa.

Athena was regarded as the patron goddess of heroic endeavours, hence why she continually helps the heroes of famous myths like Perseus, Jason, and Heracles.

Athena was often depicted in art wearing male battle armor and was treated similary to the male gods.

Athena created the first spider, Arachne, after challenging the woman in a weaving contest, which she lost, afterwards transforming her into an arachnid.

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My favourite literature and artwork depicting Athena/Minerva:

- The Iliad by Homer: In the first book of the Iliad, Athena is sent down by Hera to stop Achilles and Agamemnon from getting into a physical altercation. She grabs Achilles by the hair and warns him that fighting Agamemnon will lead him away from his destiny of greatness.

- The statue of Athena Parthenos (recreations) by Phidias: A statue of Athena meant to be housed in the Parthenon on the acropolis of Athens

- The Judgement of Paris by Lucas Cranach the Elder: Paris was asked to choose which of the three goddesses, Hera, Athena, or Aphrodite, he believed was the ‘fairest’. Each offered him a bribe to choose them, but Paris went with Aphrodite as the goddess offered him the most beautiful woman to wed, Helen of Troy. In this painting all three goddesses are depicted nude, which wouldn’t have been the case in ancient Greek art, as depicting any goddess, even Aphrodite, as nude was seen as sacrilege. This was painted in 1530, hence why the nudity wasn’t frowned upon.

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Thank you all so much for taking the time to read this post! I absolutely love Athena and all that she represents and so I was so excited to spend some time writing this up for you all. If you have any suggestions for who to write about next, feel free to DM me or leave me an ask! Also, feel free to reach out if you just want to chat! I love making new friends and would love to talk to anybody who wants to!

Valete, my friends! <3

[sillysybilsden]

To Janus. To Jupiter. To the Roman gods.

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𝐓𝐚𝐛𝐥𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐬

I. Introduction

II. Gods

III. Mythology

IV. Calendar

V. Ritual

VI. Epilogue

VII. Resources

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𝐈. 𝐈𝐧𝐭𝐫𝐨𝐝𝐮𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧

Hey there everyone! This is Sybil (fka Clever Crow). As a Roman polytheist, “Roman polytheism is just a carbon-copy of Greek polytheism” is something I hear on a weekly basis. Whether on YouTube, TikTok, Pinterest or, heck, even academic resources, there seems to be a widespread belief that these two religions are identical. Today, I want to focus on this piece of misinformation and try to debunk it by using historical evidence and examples.

Just a small disclaimer: I will be discussing this topic from a hard polytheistic and revivalist point of view. Soft polytheism is absolutely valid, but in this case it might not be of use when highlighting differences between gods.

Also, I want to thank the following people: Cristina, Mystix, @spiritual-entries and @camssecretcave . They made sure that all information provided here is factual and reliable, and I will be forever grateful to them for their help.

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𝐈𝐈. 𝐆𝐨𝐝𝐬

“Are the Greek and Roman pantheons one and the same?” This is the first question we will attempt at answering within this chapter. To do so, we must introduce a very important concept in Roman religion: interpretatio romana. Before that, though, let me provide you with some historical context.

Ever since the founding of Rome in 753 BCE, Romans were exposed to influences from other Italic peoples: Sabines, Etruscans, Volsci and so on. Because of that, we can indeed say that there has never been a 100% “native” Roman religion.

We can nonetheless differentiate two “phases” of Roman polytheism: pre-hellenisation polytheism and post-hellenisation polytheism (“hellenisation” being the process that merged Greek and Roman cultures and religions during the 1st century BCE and the 1st century CE). For simplicity’s sake, in this post we are going to compare the pre-hellenisation version of Roman religion and Hellenism.

Back to interpretatio: what is it? To put it simply, it is the comparison of two different pantheons (which is used to find matches between the gods). It was used so that, when describing other populations’ religions, one could just name a more familiar, local deity instead of fully describing a foreign one (which, obviously, would take much more time). Just imagine being a Roman historian and having to discuss Greek religion: instead of saying “Ares is a god of war, battle and courage”, you could just say “Ares is like our Mars”.

Does that mean that these gods were seen as identical? Absolutely not! Actually, this shows us that Roman gods were a thing long before Greek gods started being adopted in the pantheon (which is the reason why a god like Janus does not have a Greek counterpart).

Sticking with the same example we have used before, we can say that Mars was already Mars before he was equated to Ares. And, because of that, at a closer look, the two are extremely different: while Ares is blood-driven, Mars shows a much calmer nature; contrarily to Ares, Mars has some pretty important ties to royalty (his son being Romulus-Quirinus) and agriculture; while Ares has a relationship with Aphrodite, Mars is married to Nerio; and so on. It is only after hellenisation that these two (as well as all of the other gods) started merging into one single Greco-Roman figure.

As I said before, though, this does not mean that Rome was against syncretism. Quite the contrary, actually: whenever Romans ran into a deity who could be of use to them and did not have a counterpart in their pantheon, they would consider adopting them. This is the reason why Apollo was worshiped by both societies (Romans adopted him in 431 BCE in order to fight a pestilence; his Greek nature never went unacknowledged: for him, ritus graecus was performed).

Fun fact: interpretatio was not only directed to Greece. Roman priests tried to include the prophet Jesus Christ into the Roman pantheon. He was described to them as “a god of love”, so they used interpretatio to connect him to Venus.

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𝐈𝐈𝐈. 𝐌𝐲𝐭𝐡𝐨𝐥𝐨𝐠𝐲

As I said before, during hellenisation Greek and Roman gods started merging. As a consequence, so did their mythologies…

Actually, no, scratch that: except for a few exceptions, Roman gods did not have a mythology to begin with. Mythology that is Roman in origin revolves around men, not deities (and that is the reason why it is also referred to as “mythic history”, as the protagonists are pseudo-historical figures). Myths in Ancient Rome were used as exempla, examples to teach teens and men how they should behave in a virtuous way.

For example, one of the most famous figures from Roman mythology is Lucius Junius Brutus, the founder of the Republic: he was intelligent (he tricked the cruel king Lucius Tarquinius Superbus into sparing his life), loyal (he never deserted the Romans) and strong-willed (he took the matters into his own hands and kicked out of Rome the cruel king), and every Roman had to aspire to be like him.

In Greece, on the other hand, myths had the task of explaining why something happens. Why do we have a colder season and a warmer one? That is because Persephone comes back from and goes to the Underworld. How do we know how to use fire? Prometheus gave it to men. How did the hyacinth, the flower, get its name? It comes from Apollo’s lover Hyacinth. On top of that, Greek mythology revolves a lot more around deities than the Roman one (which is the reason why there is a pretty intricate divine family tree in Hellenism).

With this in mind, we can say that, with hellenisation, the Roman gods received myths and genealogies (as well as iconographies, in some cases) of their own for the first time ever. However, these myths and these genealogies were not altered to better fit the deity.

This is the reason why Nerio, Mars’ original wife, was forgotten in favor of Venus (Aphrodite’s Roman counterpart). This is why Saturn, an extremely benevolent agricultural deity, started being depicted as a cruel entity devouring his children (yes: I am looking at you, Goya). And this is also why Minerva, who used to have nothing to do with Medusa, started to be seen as she-who-cursed-Medusa (now I am looking at you, Ovid).

🪔

𝐈𝐕. 𝐂𝐚𝐥𝐞𝐧𝐝𝐚𝐫

Calendars were of extreme importance in polytheistic societies. After all, they were deeply intertwined with their religious mentality… which is the reason why we are briefly going to discuss this matter in this blog.

When it comes to Ancient Greece, the calendar we have the most evidence on is the Athenian one (which, because of this, has become the most widely used in modern Hellenic polytheistic communities). It is lunisolar (keep this in mind!). When it comes to Ancient Rome, on the other hand, we have quite some evidence on three different calendars that modern Roman polytheists can choose from: a lunar one, a lunisolar one and a solar one (the latter happens to be the calendar still in use today).

One similarity that needs to be addressed is the one between Noumenia and Kalends (both being a celebration of the first day of the month). In the Roman version, however, we would also have to add Nones and Ides as recurring monthly festivities.

Another similarity that many seem to highlight is the one between Kronia and Saturnalia, two festivities where abundance is celebrated (as well as, respectively, Kronos and Saturn, who later merged) and the Golden Age is remembered. However! Kronia is celebrated during the Summer, roughly during the Summer solstice; Saturnalia is celebrated during Wintertime, roughly during the Winter solstice. It might not seem like a big difference at first, but it is if we consider this: during Kronia, the harvest is celebrated while it is happening, while the mature crops are being collected; during Saturnalia, the harvest that has already happened during the past Summer is celebrated, as well as the one that is to come.

Last but not least, let us highlight a Roman-only peculiarity. Back in Ancient Roman times, every day had a “quality": they could either be faustus or nefastus (as well as a lot more nuances which we will not be taking into account here). They were of great importance on a religious level, as nefastus days could bring bad luck to a practitioner if they were to take big decisions. Something similar also happened with dies religiosi, during which it was forbidden to go to work (or do anything that was not a life-or-death matter).

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𝐕. 𝐑𝐢𝐭𝐮𝐚𝐥

Now that we have discussed the more “theological” matters, such as the nature of the gods, myths and festivities, we can briefly talk about the more practical side of things.

Let us start with an all-time favorite: veiling. Nowadays, a lot of pagans (no matter their path or their gender) veil for a variety of reasons: protection, modesty or devotion. And that is, no doubt, valid. Historically speaking, though, things kind of different. While both in Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome veils were used by women in order to express their modesty, in Italy they were also mandatory whenever performing rituals (for women and men alike).

Another big difference resides in the views of these two societies over divination. When we think of “divination” and “Ancient Greece”, one of the first things that comes to our minds is probably the Oracle of Delphi (and rightly so!). This figure was said to be able to channel the messages of the gods, and they did so by going into a trance-like state.

In Rome, this practice was seen as unreliable (even though, surprisingly, there are a couple of instances where Romans have asked the Oracle for guidance), as the only reliable forms of divination were those that could be performed when completely conscious (augury, haruspicy, etc). Dreams, too, were seen as an untrustworthy form of communication by Romans.

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𝐕𝐈. 𝐄𝐩𝐢𝐥𝐨𝐠𝐮𝐞

There is something we still need to address: if these two cultures, societies, religions were so different, why do so many people believe otherwise?

Well, the answer can be found in 19th century’s anthropological and religious studies. Back then, scholars used to be very fond of the comparative approach (which is a “strategy where characteristics or parts are compared across different research situations to identify differences or similarities”, according to www.sciencedirect.com) and the Indo-European theory.

Too focused on stressing the similarities between Greeks and Romans, intellectuals “forgot” to highlight the differences. Even though nowadays, academically, these hypotheses have been marked as outdated, they are still ever-so widespread.

I hope that this blog will contribute to debunking this piece of misinformation. And I hope that I managed to introduce you, reader, to Roman polytheism… Not just a carbon-copy of Hellenism!

Sybil

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𝐕𝐈𝐈. 𝐑𝐞𝐬𝐨𝐮𝐫𝐜𝐞𝐬

The majority of my knowledge on Greek religion comes from “Archeologia greca” by Enzo Lippolis and Giorgio Rocco and theoi.com, as well as some high school classes dedicated to Hellenic mythology.

The following resources talk specifically about this post's subject:

Roman vs. Greek religion (YouTube)

Greek mythology: A second masterpost (Tumblr)

You can check out my full list of resources on Roman polytheism here.

🪔 Check out this post on Amino as well! 🪔