#fiat my beloved
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Fiat Patchata Janngeon as OTTO
—EVERY YOU, EVERY ME · ทุกๆ เธอที่รัก · Universe 07/08
#every you every me#every you every me the series#fiat patchata#everyyoueverymeedit#thai bl#thai drama#bl drama#bl series#hey i wonder if the boom mics on set picked up the sound of otto's heart breaking :))))#fiat my beloved#he's so pretty and so talented AND FOR WHAT#WHERE'S THAT OFFICE BL WITH NA??#i'm still waiting!!#by pharawee
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Literally can't wait for this stupid man to artive 🥺😭😭😭
My mind is rotating this figure in my head like a microwave ahhhhhhhgg sobbing he's so cute and cosy I can't focus on anything else
#one piece#sanji#black leg sanji#one piece sanji#my beloved ahhhhhg#arghhhhg#mauling him in cuteness aggression btw#i want to. bite him#and also cry#clawing at the air slamming fiat at table and breaking down he's too cute nika help.me#my bb#*holds him gently in my palms*#my babygirl#lysm#i am wrapping him up in the softest silk and cotton and guarding him with my life till the sun explodes and ends us all btw#v normal about him#it
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Huetobervember day 22
Purple Multipla’s
#huetobervember#art challenge 2023#traditional art#car art#cars#fiat multipla#fiat multipla my beloved#theyre having a meeting :)#the way this car looks like some kind of creature or beetle#no hate for this car allowed. thats my son#you attack fiat multipla you attack me#chose this one for purple bc we had one and it was ‘aubergine’ colored#which was just black but i can make it purple
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Spaced - Outtakes - Season 1
#spaced#the fact that this just might be the crispest footage ive ever seen of this god damn show i-#bloopers my absolute beloved#''that will pump thru the engine block of a fiat uno mate'' gets me every time#do you really watch PORN! in the flat
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Spring time is here and the jbl drought continues and it seems Korea is more than willing to fill the vacuum with one show already airing and two more on the way. As usual, spoilers and opinions below, read at your own risk.
QL - Currently Watching
🇰🇷 Business as Usual [2/6] - I like it more than I thought I would but I'm genuinely wondering how they will make this a couple I wanna root for. How will they make this into some kind of misunderstanding where there are no villains? I dunno, but I wanna believe.
🇹🇼 Exclusive Love [10/12] - I mean, I guess since it's in the funeral services world a death shouldn't be all that surprising, and yet, I was expecting a different brother. Du Zhi cannot catch a break. But I am bored. Where aree my darling sides???
🇹🇼 Fight For You [4/12] - Fake dating and cohab my beloveds. I love them. I couldn't care less about everything else.
🇰🇷 Heesu in Class 2 [6/10] - I wish this show was actually about Heesu. As it stands it seems to be more about Chan Young. Which, if this wasn't a kbl, wouldn't be an issue. I think cute metaphors aside, the story is not consistent and neither are the characters. I have no problem with characters messing up but I'm having serious issues liking anyone here besides Ji Yu.
🇹🇭 My Golden Blood [5/12] - I am bored when only the two of them are on my screen. I feel nothing. Tonkla and Nakan on the other hand...
🇹🇭 Perfect 10 Liners [23/24] - I can't believe it's almost over. I love this final arc so much, Faifa and Wine are really so compelling. The fact that 2 of the three arcs feature the 2 brothers has given us a chance to watch the family stuff resolve itself a bit. I'm actually excited to watch the finale with all the fluff and a proposal and the friends moments. I do however have a complaint, why did Tawan only appeared for like 5 seconds this time?? I always need more.
🇹🇭 Sweet Tooth, Good Dentist [3/12] - They are cute, but I'm not sure where this is heading. It seems soon for a kiss and me not being a fan of triangles is giving me a bad feeling.
🇹🇭 Top Form [5/11] - I'm genuinely surprised by the production quality. Some incredible editing moments and beautiful visuals. And Akin is delightful. I am in love with this character. It has depth and is absolutely adorable.
🇹🇭 Your Sky of Us (SP) [2/3] - It's like injecting sugar directly into my veins.
QL - Finished
🇹🇭 GelBoys - The angst of it all. This was a very good show. I think the final two episodes were a bit rushed and I didn't necessarily think that 4Mod and Chian needed to end up together but they're young so it's not like it's gonna last. Bua I think was the best character overall, but Baabin is my baby and he never did anything wrong.
🇹🇭 Ossan's Love Thailand - Final Thoughts.
🇹🇭 Reverse With Me - There was a good story in there somewhere but it never really made it to the screen. I liked the idea of the Fiat storyline, the unintended consequences of her power and the ripples that it creates, but it was not executed well enough. Although I found myself sympathising heavily with Fiat, which I don't think I was suppose too, but at least I was the only one that wasn't upset he went to the wedding. He sacrificed a lot so might as well enjoy the fruits. Good bones but not executed well enough, just as I felt about Revers4You.
🇰🇷 Secret Relationships - Pretty is pretty. Also, pretty is crazy. Like straitjacket crazy as it turned out. I think this would've worked better if it wasn't centred on someone so passive. He's just too apathetic for me to truly root for him. I wanted him to get out obviously, and perhaps be alone for a while, but I was okay with the ending. I was resigned so might as well get some happy I suppose.
🇹🇭 The Boy Next World SP - It was cute, it was fine, I could've done without all the music. They deliver the nc scenes but it's becoming a bit predictable and boring for me. Wondering if we're gonna have more considering that ending.
🇹🇭 Jack & Joker SP - Unpopular opinion. I liked it. Yes, a bit messy but I mean so was the show. I didn't mind the ending even without that after credits scene. Although I hope we get more just cause I wanna see YinWar again. Was it good? Well, there were some solid moments, and I really liked all the guys. Grandma is still the MVP, and Toi Ting is the best kid. Oh, and YinWar were great. But overall, it felt really rushed, the plot seemed forced, more like a setup to reach the ending rather than a story that naturally led there. And we didn't even get TattooAran!
QL - Dropped / On Hold Dropped - 🇹🇭 Flirt Milk / 🇹🇭 Lost In The Woods Waiting to binge - 🇰🇷 Checkered Shirt / 🇰🇷 Close To You/ 🇨🇳Secrets Happened on the Litchi Island
Non QL - Finished


🇯🇵 After School Doctor | 🇯🇵 Otonari Complex
Upcoming - March 03/04 - 🇰🇷 Business as Usual MDL | Trailer 04/04 - 🇹🇭 (Your) Apple [GL] MDL | Trailer 06/04 - 🇰🇷 An Office Thing [GL] Web Drama Trailer 16/04 - 🇰🇷 Something Is Not Right MDL | Trailer 19/04 - 🇹🇭 Secret Ghost MDL | Teaser 20/04 - 🇹🇭 Boys in Love MDL | Trailer 20/04 - 🇹🇭 My Stubborn MDL | Trailer 26/03 - 🇹🇭 The BangkokBoy MDL | Trailer 26/03 - 🇯🇵 Even Though We're Adults[GL] MDL | Trailer (no int distribution announced yet) Also, Wedding Banquet will have its North American theatrical release on April 18th, and sometime in May in some European countries.
That's all for now. Have a wonderful week.💜
#exclusive love#fight for you#heesu in class 2#business as usual the series#my golden blood#sweet tooth good dentist#top form#your sky of us#ossan's love th#reverse with me#gelboys#secret relationships#thai bl#korean bl#taiwan bl#multi ql#multi bl#rosy watchlist#rose rambles#japanese bl
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if God came down today and said "i will give you any car on this planet, just ask for it, i will cover your insurance and car maintenance and everything you need, including insurance," i would have to sit and think about how I'm gonna commit to the bit.
the Toyota AE86 is a damn good car. speedy. effective. hard to fucking import, since it was never sold in America. but not many people would recognize the reference, you know? I love sports cars. love hatchbacks even more. I currently HAVE a hatchback and adore it. but it wouldn't really be for the bit, you know? it would just be because it's a damn good vintage car and fun as hell and a beloved hatchback.
but shit. maybe a little pastel green Fiat 500? I got a thing for two door cars that don't have a backseat, you see. don't like lots of people in my fucking car, and it's a convenient excuse. besides, I'm a short king and some kind of crossbreed fruit abomination that scientists shudder at the sight of. made for agriculture, born to be an invasive species, ya know? a little car like that would be perfect to piss off my dad. ya know? man doesn't even let me drink fruity drinks in his presence since I'm a 'man' now. imagine rolling up to Christmas in that motherfucker.
but no.
the solution is clear.
I'm gonna look God directly in the fucking eyeballs. I'm gonna say Mercedes Benz 230 G-Wagon. modified.
God is going to start sweating.
modified? he asks, tentative, unsure. his voice is trembling.
yes, I say, with an elevated seat and a dome to shield the person in the seat from the elements. and maybe assassination attempts.
god is trembling like a newborn fawn on wobbly little legs. I lick my lips.
I don't want you to make it, I say.
I want you to steal the current popemobile.
he tells me it's modified to only go at a walking pace. you can't even really take it on a road!
I'm gonna tell him I'm gonna make it a sleeper. he'll cover maintenance, right? I got a nonbinary ex-Mormon that spitefully became a mechanic bc they got sick of men being misogynistic to them. they'd love this shit.
but! you were raised Pentecostal! he cries, and i smile. like a wolf.
ah, yes, but i got a former Catholic of a femme he/him lesbian best friend who would fit just perfectly in that elevated seat.
I'm taking him on the freeway in the popemobile.
now give me the popemobile.
god weeps. I smile. it's for the bit, of course. I'll be sure to wear a gay little crop top for our little world tour. gotta make sure we get good pictures.
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Beloved fic finder, ao3 magician supreme, I desperately need to find a otayuri fic that I read like 4 years ago and was too stupid to bookmark. It's a magical realism detective au. Yuri is like the lead magic detective, and he's kindof grouchy and jaded. Otabek is literally just a normal guy who gets caught up in some wacky magic missing persons cases. I think the whole plot was that some evil people were experimenting on normies to try and forcibly make them magic? Otabek maybe got magic-ified, idk something happens that makes him a secret special boy. It was such a magnificant fic, finished and everything if I remember right! But I cannot find her for the life of me, my white whale :(
If you would be so kind as to take a crack at it, I'd be eternally grateful!
I hope my lovely followers can help!
----
Update: Is it Fiat Nox by NyxNuit [E, 132K]
Otabek pauses, “So…you’re a wizard?"
“Call me a wizard again and I’ll turn you into a rat.”
Yuri gets a lot more than he bargained for when he and his Unit investigate a series of strange murders.
When Otabek is the unwitting mundane victim of a magical crime, he does his best to get on with his life. Instead, he gets saddled with a foul-mouthed, junk-food-eating Warlock.
Thanks for the help, @alexseanchai! 💙
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(Questions about OCs)
Was there anything in particular that inspired the creation of your OCs?
Do you have any voice claims for your OCs?
If all of your OCs met, how would they get along?
:)
heheheh tank u
answers below cut
Was there anything in particular that inspired the creation of your OCs?
Vagabond <- MY CAR
my car... my beautiful black FIAT 500 i named Vagabond when I was gifted it-- he's the one i work on the most because i drive him everywhere... he's been around since the start and has so many versions and variants...
him turning into a sports car was unrelated and purely for alt story purposes--
Malaprop/M4-04 <- My love for Amalgamous Prime + the idea of miners joining Megatron's side in TF ONE
He's a direct self-insert into TF ONE, so he holds all my ideals and shit. I walked into the theater on the Decepticon side, I left it even more on it's side. It's why his name matches my user.
Count Raven <- @too-many-beloveds 's character Crowbar hated being mistaken as a raven and so... boom. A raven rival.
It turned into something so fucking sad though so... not that unexpected when I'm involved!
Nostokuth <- I was watching season 3 of TF Prime and had the idea that Shockwave didn't immediately start cloning Predacons from skeletal remains but instead did experimentation on Cybertronians instead.
It becoming a vehicon-predacon hybrid was actually not the initial idea but I had so much fun drawing it.
Gel-Strike <- my jetbyte mpreg art i drew... that's it..
Do you have any voice claims for your OCs?
Vagabond <- I had a couple in mind but it really depends on the variant!!! All these ones written have pictures under the #vagabond oc or #vagabond art!!! tags
Animated (Rebuilt): Sam Elliot (the southern accent/baritone fits)
Earthspark & IDW: Serj Tankian (yes the SOAD lead singer)
Animated (Pre-Vagabond/Carnage), Cyberverse, & G1 Cartoon, & Prime: Danny Kaye (makes me happy)
Malaprop/M4-04 <- Not really? But he'd have a voice similar to Prowl from Earthspark. He doesn't talk much. Sometimes I imagine him with my own voice.
Count Raven <- Christopher Lee but specifically his performance in Dracula
Nostokuth <- sounds like a damn dog
Gel-Strike <- N/A but probably has a dramatic inflection thanks to his dads!!!!!
If all of your OCs met, how would they get along?
The only ones that would would be Count Raven, Nostokuth, and Gel-Strike as they all can fly and are animal-themed!
Vagabond and Malaprop... eh it's complicated?
Don't put those two in rooms with anyone unless they're from the same continuity.
Mayyybe.... Cyberverse!Vagabond would be good with Gel-Strike, as he knows the little bastard's carrier...?
....
Thank you soooo much for the questions I love you anon you really helped me distract myself muamuamua--
#ask answered#ask me about my ocs#tf ocs#thanks anon#vagabond oc#nostokuth oc#gel strike oc#count raven oc#malaprop oc#voice claim#talking about ocs#very long post#please send asks#about ocs i mean
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Just some thoughts after watching Mission:Impossible - Dead Reckoning, Part 1 tonight...
***SPOILERS***
Okay, first of all: I absolutely LOVED it! Like the whole movie and I know that I will watch it multiple times in the cinema. I mean, yes, it was exciting, of course, it's M:I, but also really funny. My friend and I had to try so hard sometimes not to laugh out too loud. The car race? Amazing. Probably because I love car races in movies in general (even though I am always sorry for all the innocent cars and other things that get destroyed), there are always many funny one-liners, this time no exception.
But let me come to the point that is the reason why I'm writing this. Ilsa. My beloved. I have so many questions (Why the eye patch in the beginning?, for example) but first: No, you can't tell me you're really FUCKING dead!! There were a lot of reasons why I wasn't really, really sad when she "died". One was because so many things were happening immediately after that, there was no time to be sad, even for the audience. Another is; I don't really believe she's dead. I was always half expecting she'd appear in the next second. Like Paris. Apparently, she's not really dead either. And now I have one year, in which I can keep on believing she's still alive.
I mean, I finally get a few (very few) beautiful Ilsa/Ethan moments (this hug, when she realised it's Ethan in the dessert!! was my favorite because unexpected, because not in the trailer, iirc; but also the little looks they give each other), and then this happens!! AHHH. I'm sorry, I just can't handle this Ilsa-loss
Even though it meant less Ilsa, I was positively surprised by Grace. When the movie was promoted and Hayley Atwell seemed more important than Rebecca Ferguson, I was seriously disappointed, partly upset. But Ilsa aside, was Grace actually a really good character. She made me laugh, I didn't want her to die (nor Ilsa), and I the end in the train I wasn't just concerned about Ethan but also about her.
What I did realize was that Grace is kind of like Ilsa was in the beginning. Or at least similar. I realized it when Grace wanted to leave the party, was attacked by two men, and Ethan came to help her. The moment she was free and the men fought with Ethan, she left the scene instead of now helping Ethan. I feel like this is something Rogue-Nation-Ilsa would have done too.
I'm glad that Benji had his bomb defusing scene. When he's under pressure he often has funny lines, and while I know that Benji isn't just there for the funny lines, I appreciate and love them. Also I love that we had multiple (at least two??) times when Benji gave Ethan directions while Ethan ran/drove. My immediate comparison was "like in MI3", one of Benjis first actions, but then I realized that he also does it in Fallout, and it's even more iconic there.
I was seriously confused by Paris. It's probably due to something I missed at one point, but like, what does she even do (aside from having too much fun when driving a car that is too big through streets that are too small, with the intention of apparently killing two people in a yellow Fiat 500, while looking like a maniac)?? I really didn't get it.
Okay, I would love to say more about Ilsa but also about everyone and everything else, maybe another time, I need to sleep...
#mission impossible#dead reckoning part 1#ilsa faust#ethan hunt#benji dunn#grace#Paris#rebecca ferguson#tom cruise#simon pegg#hayley atwell#pom klementieff#just a few thoughts#damn I love this movie#i really hope ilsa comes back#spoilers#mission:Impossible spoilers#mi 7 spoilers
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Oh? So maybe the reason Frank won't be in Love Syndrome: The Beginning is because he'll be in The Rebound alongside Nammon Krittanai. The show's logo suggests that it's basketball-themed. Also, it will be directed by Golf Tanwarin (yay!) and it's a VIU original (nooo!).
But good for Frank tbh (and better for me lmao)
#jane watches stuff#the rebound the series#frank thanatsaran#nammon krittanai#golf tanwarin#how did this become such a frank themed blog#he's not even my fave lmao#but also#nammon my beloved#he worked so hard to get a main role and now here he is i'm cry#i love his whole vibe so much#this show needs to be a success#if only to show gmmtv what they've been missing#same with fiat's show(s)#next up: toptap and mek pls#tis the season for gmmtv revenge bl
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rewatching don't say no and
1. i forgot how much they made First cry lol Fiat is a cry machine poor baby gets traumatized non stop
2. leo is still my beloved. my demisexual king. ur still the best
3. second couple.. still not for me
4. the sound effects omg make it STOP
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My best friend Fiat 500 🚗
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Fiat Lux
Here are lyrics to a song that I love. They are translated from German and the band is Einsturzende Neubauten. I think of it as Crowley starting of and Aziraphale coming with light. Would that I could write this way.
Fiat Lux (English Translation) Lyrics
Just listen to me breath But that proves nothing In the middle of my circles But their center I am not Motionless Waiting Waiting When you come, you'll come with light You'll come radiant
You devour my shadows Count my notches And open me up Open my sanctum And read me out loud So that I, too Can hear Myself When you leave, you'll ask: Which one of us do you believe is the beloved? Which one is the beloved?
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@ethanhuntfemmefatale replied to your post “i come to my brother and i ask him about cars and...”:
arc what cars do you like. For science
SO AS I WAS SAYING TO MY BELOVED BROTHER WHO RAINED ON EVERY PARADE
I showed him this one

and he was like "arc, you can't have a mini coop, every part on them is super expensive" which i think doesn't matter bc maybe the car will not break, but he didn't listen
then i showed him this one which is so cute!!!!

and he was like "arc you live in a small town and the speed limit is like 35mph, you would kill the transmission of one of these cars going that speed all the time" which i did not know about manuals actually, that sucks
THEN i showed him a pic of a car someone has at work and this isn't that pic but this is the same car

and he was like "okay admittedly the paint job is VERY cute but its a gas guzzler, you can't have it"
AND LIKE I STILL HAVE 3 YEARS OF PAYMENTS ON MY CAR BUT STILL! STILL HE RAINS ON MY EVERY PARADE
its mean and tree is mean to me 8C
anyway the only time movie product placement has ever worked on me is the fiat from hell in DR1 and Bradley's Bronco in TGM. i'm not proud.
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okay, are you ready? here’s my be mine superstar melt:
1. I am unbearably obsessed with the personality “swop” that happened between these two actors. going from fiat our little sunshine brat in dsn to Ashi our regal serious actor in bms and Leo our serious big boy protector in dsn to actual puppy sunshine baby punn in bsm -> getting a swop like that shows me their range as actors but also just different sides to their acting personalities and how well they know each other which is pure magic in romance
2. I’m OBSESSED with the way they met. like yes punn is madly in love with ashi as a fan boy (the little poster kiss really ruined my life), but to have an accidental bump in meet-cute and then (as far as it looks like the plot is heading) to end up working together is a delightful start to their story (cause it alludes to plot directions like “oh fuck I’m in love with you what am I supposed to do with these feelings??” , and “secret relationship eras (my beloved)” and “how can you date him you’re just a student intern and he’s a superstar” and “but I love him. I love him.”. can you tell I’m ready for this?)
3. the sets for this show seem to be out of this world. not just in relation to the period drama ashi (and co) are acting in but also the cafe where punn met his friends, the bar where doctor and superstar met (HAH!), punn’s mom’s cafe, dad’s art studio. all of it is so good. and from what I can see they really seem to be using the lighting and set structure to show personalities which is incredible in and of itself. (e.g. if you notice the lighting and set is pretty light/airy/flowing when punn is the central focus (that shower scene speaks for itself); but quite dark/wood/sort of solid when ashi is the focus)
4. the costumes, oh good god, the costumes! firstly just how beautiful the period drama stuff is ! ashi’s white cloak? and title’s full princely (guard?) suit? IMMACULATE. but also their casual clothes. ashi being so neat, tidy, and elegant always. versus punn who is soft and comfy (that lil grey cardigan did so much for my heart). as far as I can see (and probably because there’s been so many costume changes as a result of ashi’s job), there hasn’t been any colour coding between him and punn (yet?). so not much to say on the blue boy/red boy (/other colour variations) connotations. they may just play this out in style more than colour which is always less obvious but satisfying all the same, but I guess that’s just a waiting game.
5. so so happy with all the touching we’ve had. and I don’t just mean punn and his delusional body pillow cuddling (although that’s so relatable). but also between doctor and superstar (I really need to get to their names lmao) -> their entire scene was iron melting! the thumb swipe across the bottom lip, the finger brushing against the hand, the dancing (holy fuck), and then naturally the sex. SO GOOD. but also yes punn and his little prayer to his ashi poster, punn and his brother pai fighting (ah sibling love), even the touching between the three superstar friends. I like that the intimacy of touching is already being shown in a full range of ways. parents to children, sibling to sibling, friend to friend, love interests, lust. EATING SO GOOD!
anyway, now that I’ve talked y’all’s ears off, I am so happy to have a Monday night (more like Tuesday morning) watch for the next few weeks and I’m beyond excited for wherever this one will take us !!
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taxing the rich can be good even if it is theft
My problem with "taxation is theft" libertarianism is that I think the badness of stealing is contingent on (1) the wealth of the victim, and (2) the specialness of the object stolen.
I think it's really bad to steal anything (money or otherwise) from a poor person. And I think it's also really bad to steal special things (like beloved family heirlooms) from a rich person.
But money is fungible, not special at all. Stealing money from a rich person is the least bad kind of stealing.
(Another example of not-very-bad stealing: Individual acts of shoplifting mass-produced items from a corporation-owned store. However, large amounts of shoplifting may create serious problems, even if individual acts of shoplifting are okay. Shoplifting may also be wrong when it harms the employees.)
Note that my view is not that property rights are bogus or less important than other rights. Nor do I deny that taxation is theft. However, I construe theft as a pro-tanto property-rights infringement, rather than as an all-things-considered property-rights violation. My view is that stealing non-special things (like money)-- from people who have a LOT of it-- is much less bad than other kinds of stealing.
(Sometimes "theft" is defined as an all-things-considered property rights violation, so that theft is wrong by definition. If we define "theft" this way, then I deny that taxation is theft, rather than argue that taxation is legitimate theft. There are pros and cons to either definition.)
So even if taxing the rich is theft, it is the least bad kind of stealing. This badness is easily outweighed by the stealer's doing good things with the money.
(Note: Some theorists, like some Modern Monetary Theorists, claim that the "governments spend taxpayer money" view is a false theory of how the money supply works, for nations with fiat currency like ours. I'm setting this view aside, and I will assume the government does spend taxpayer money. The MMT view may be compatible with a slightly modified version of my view, anyway.)
Taxing the poor can be extremely bad, however. The government unjustifiably steals from the poor in many ways --such as asset forfeiture, fines, and incarceration-related fees, as well as some kinds of taxation.
The government often wastes taxpayer money, and some libertarians allege that the government rarely spends money well, but this is a mostly separate line of complaint. When the government spends rich people's stolen taxpayer money on good things, that's legitimate.
Poverty causes massive and horrific suffering. When governments steal money from the rich to fund programs to prevent and mitigate the horrors of poverty, this is often a great thing to do. In fact, the government should massively, massively increase this activity.
A potential objection: Does my argument imply it would be okay for private effective charities to start stealing from rich people, to fund valuable projects like fighting malaria or giving cash-transfers to the poor? In principle, I don't have a problem with it. However, in practice, if lots of private charities began stealing from the rich, then there would likely be many practical problems.
We could also distinguish two versions of this scenario: one where such "charitable stealing" is legalized, and the other where charitable stealing remains illegal but becomes widespread. Either scenario likely leads to many problems. If governments maintain their monopoly on stealing from the rich, then the system is more stable and governed by consistent expectations.
However, it may be good for the government to provide more money to effective charities, insofar as the latter can do some important tasks better than other actors can. Whether this is true (and whether such funding would create good or bad incentives-- cf. the "non-profit industrial complex" literature for potential reasons for cynicism)-- is partially an empirical question.
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