#fetishization //

[ilovekimyadawson]

A man could say he “loves fat bitches” and he would be praised for being a body positive feminist

[tehm--ally]

Found in a thread with other examples of straight men doing this but this one was the least explicit. Long story short, straight men trick FTMs desperate for validation, and if the FTM never actually discovers the rouse, their confidence is falsely bolstered and they go on to make dating life harder for actual gay men. Just a shitshow all around.

[srslylini]

crazy thing and that may come as a surprise to some

but a a man fetishizing a lesbian sex scene doesn't make the lesbian sex scene fetishizing the lesbians. It just means a man is a weirdo and lesbians exist.

[intersexcat-tboy]

When jealous perisex trans people tell individuals with erectile tissue growth that falls between or outside of the typical expectations that they would "kill for that growth", who would that be? Who would you kill to have that ownership?

[bunnyboy-juice]

"fat ppl are so hot and bangable. fat people are sexy. i want to fuck fatties" okok heard but do you actually like us as people? do you know anything abt the fat creators u follow who share things abt their lives? how do you treat fat ppl who are undesirable to you? do you listen to us when we are screaming about the ways that fatphobia is everywhere? no not mindlessly reblog, but listen and internalize. do you take the time to unpack your biases against fat ppl? or even the fatphobia you absolutely were taught growing up? do you hold your thin/not fat friends accountable when they compare themselves to us because they dont like the way they look? do you advocate for us when people make us the butt of jokes? do you actually date fat people? do you befriend fat people? are you kind to fat strangers you don't find attractive? do you feel the need to qualify your love for fat people? do you love any fat people who arent related to you? do you respect fat ppl of all sizes? what do you consider "fat"? is it just someone with bigger than average boobs/butt? do you like fat people with small boobs/butts? does "we love bellies here" include large bellies covered in stretch marks? does it include bellies with multiple rolls and skin discoloration because of those rolls? does it include those things together? when you say fat do you mean actual fat people? do you include fat people who arent white? who are disabled? who reject the expectations of hyper femininity/hyper masculinity? when the trend of wanting to fuck certain fat ppl wears off yet again will you continue to desire us? to love us? to cherish us? do you see us as people even when we do not give you sexual access to our bodies?

[subbyk1tten]

I have this fantasy that one of my best friends’ boyfriend has a thing for me. He loves the idea of his girlfriend and I being together. He subtly flirts with me and seduces me. Convinces his girlfriend, one of my best friends, to flirt with me too. Get closer to me. I don’t think much of it. we’re all friends, after all.

Then one day it’s just the three of us. only my friend and I smoke, her boyfriend doesn’t. we get absolutely high out of our minds. meanwhile he’s encouraging us to smoke more. to keep taking hit after hit. he makes it into a game. I like games.

he gets a little handsy with his girlfriend. it’s fine, they’re dating. It happens. but of course I say something. I have to. he makes a joke about me being jealous. or left out. I don’t admit to anything, of course. but he suggested that her and I get a little touchy feely.

she’s so high she doesn’t see the problem with it. and I’m just happy to be included. and of course the weed just makes everything feel so much better. she rubs my body, my chest, my back, slowly making her way between my legs. without thinking, I kiss her. her boyfriend tells her to kiss me back. she does. our make out is sloppy and messy.

he watches for a moment before joining in, giving us encouraging words to continue. telling us how good we’re doing. how happy we’re making him feel.

it ends up with the most sloppy threesome possible and the next morning, I barely remember anything. I feel a little funny down there but I can’t recall anything that happened. I try asking them, but she doesn’t remember anything and he said all we did was watch movies. I believed him. I never remember things when I’m high. but then again, he knew that, didn’t he?

[magidoggie]

A LOOK INTO SHI/HIR PRONOUNS AND THEIR ORIGINS

So I’ve seen people claim that shi/hir pronouns are intersex exclusive (mostly intersex people), and others say they aren’t (mostly non-intersex people)

As an intersex person, I've been confused about this for a while, so I decided to look into it

THIS POST WILL CONTAIN NSFW TOPICS, FURRIES, TALKS OF FETISHIZATION OF INTERSEX BODIES, AND INTERSEX SLURS!

Most of the users of these pronouns seem to be non-intersex people, but there are also intersex people who use them.

I've seen a decent amount of intersex people say that shi/hir pronouns are only ours to use, as they were used against us (like a shortened version of he-she). This would make them basically slurs that only we can reclaim.

I've even seen some claims that Geoffrey Chaucer himself coined these words?? (The chaucer thing, I haven't been able to find a source for. Even so, it is most likely just an old spelling of "she/her")

I’ve seen people say it originated on 4chan. It'd be hard to verify, as 4chan is known for not keeping threads up for long. There are 4chan archives, but I've tried my hardest to look for any combinations of things like "shi" and different terms that could work with it like "intersex" "freak" or "hermaphrodite" . I don't doubt it's been used on 4chan, but I can't find much, and archival sites don't go back far enough.

Regardless, the pronouns seem quite old. One thing I did find under the search of ""4chan" shi hir" on Google, was a.. descriptive post on a furry porn website called e621.net

Okay, 13 years ago, that's a start. It certainly contains the word "herm" (short for hermaphrodite), and the word intersex used with this pronoun.

Godspeed TheShadowfox42 I hope you found the image.

Using Google's "Before:(date)" feature, I searched "shi herm before:2010", and unsurprisingly, I found a lot of furry porn.

Stories on sofurry.com, a furry website that looks to be from at least 2007, if not older. I'll spare you the details, but indeed, there, they use shi/hir pronouns for their "herm" characters. Did these pronouns originate from.. furries?? I put that though aside for now, to look further into other uses.

As it turns out, the journey does not end at 2007. Urban dictionary has an entry from 2003

No slurs here, it looks like a neutral usage. Again, going back to Google. Now, search terms "hir "gender neutral" before:2004"

Many results show up now, now articles rather than furries. American.edu (seems to be a university), Swarthmore.edu (this is a college), both from 2001. jstor.org with a journal article from 1999. Unfortunately I can't read that one, as I have to pay a whole $63 to purchase it. I even found a PDF file from 1994 by core.ac.uk

But, what I've realized now is this is not usage of shi/hir pronouns. All of these use Ze/hir pronouns. I don't know if there is any link, but the last pronoun looking the same must've obscured the results.

From the american.edu article on these pronouns. You can see the usage of "hir" alongside "ze", and below it, the usage of ze/zir pronouns, which seem to be used more today.

Shit.. Doing the search all over again with the pronoun "shi" yields.. very few results apart from people talking about Chinese words.

Wait what about those furries from earlier? The tvtropes.org article does include this:

Chakona space? Chakats? Pronouns he came up with? Admittedly I kept seeing these centaur feline hybrid characters come up quite consistently during this dive, but I had to look into it further.

Oh buddy what did I get myself into. This is from 2001 best I can tell, so we're getting quite old here. I scroll down on the page.

And lower down.

Now this is all very interesting speculative biology, but what I'm focusing on is again, the usage of "hermaphrodite" together with the pronouns "shi/hir". Did a furry artist named Bernard Doove come up with these pronouns.

It gets yet older.. New search, "chakats "shi" before:2001"

Again, Bernard Doove's art from 2000, 1999, 1998,

I find a website called yerf.metafur.org It has furry art, dating all the way back to the mid 1990's, but here, on December 23 1998, is the first appearance of these pronouns on that site.

This Bernard Doove person has been at this project, with these pronouns for a while.

From what I can tell, many of his art pieces, they seem to be quite sexual beings. Quite fetishistic of hermaphroditism at times. (or intersexuality, take your pick)

The other thing I found with my search was a website, furry.org.au/bosshoss/

My search says it's from September 14 1998.

That's certainly some information, but it might come in handy. So Chakat Goldfur provided this website? Who is that? Looking into it, that seems to be a character created by Bernard Doove, that acts as an alter ego. Further down, the person running this website lists some other websites they enjoy. One being "Proxima Centauri", which seems to be another furry artist.

"I met this one at ConFURence 8. Very interesting. (Did I mention shi is a hermaphrodite uni-centaur?)"

(For context, ConFURence is a furry convention held in 1997)

Again, the usage of hermaphrodite, and the pronoun shi. At this point, the website being linked to is long gone, but the wayback machine provides help. The website, http://www.spots.ab.ca/~unicorn/main.htm has been captured all the way back to October 8th 1997.

At this time, the website was under construction. No images are willing to load and haven't been archived, but the description is intact.

So this person uses shi/hir pronouns for their hermaphroditic character all the way back in 1997. There are links to other places where this person used to host their works, but they are all down and haven't been archived. The thread is running thin..

Back to Bernard Doove, the Chakat creator. There must be something more to this. Turns out, there was. On the "yerf" website, I actually found several art pieces that were not picked up by Google.

Febuary 22 1997. Getting yet older. In some art pieces, Bernard references "Forest Tale" and "forest tales", so I went looking for whatever that was.

1995?? you've got to be kidding. It's an adult story involving these "chakat" beings, and sure enough, down the page

Shi/hir pronouns used over and over again.

With the use of hermaphrodite.

But.. This is kind of where it ends. I couldn't seem to find anything older, and I'm not going to contact Bernard Doove over this. Even something as old as 29 years is impressive to me. Bernard Doove states his characters were inspired by other furry artists' creatures of the time, but since it's 1995, there isn't much left for me to find here. Anything before that time is probably lost.

With all the information I have been able to gather, it looks to shi/hir pronouns were created by Bernard Doove who is a furry author and artist. Shi/hir were made to be a midway between "she" and "him" in some way, to be a gender neutral word for hermaphroditic genetically modified beings called "chakats" in his stories. As an intersex person myself, I don't enjoy the use of "hermaphrodite" in such a way, as it's a slur for us. But these types of characters also seem to be very old, and we, and our struggles, were completely unknown to the vast majority of people, even moreso than nowadays.

If you use those pronouns for an intersex person who doesn't use them, it is indeed intersexist, as you are implying we are hermaphrodites.

But as for whether only intersex people can use them? I'm not sure. The original intent doesn't seem be directly linked to intersex people. You could argue that these hermaphroditic characters are fetishized versions of how many people see us, and have seen us for a long time. Afterall, hermaphrodite was, and still is, a common slur for us.

I don't doubt some people have used these pronouns as slurs against us as well, but I also haven't found anything specifically that supports that. It always seemed to be for specific fictional characters that COULD be based off specific intersex attributes

I'm not going to argue one way or the other. This was just me trying to find what I could about these pronouns and their history. Just be mindful of how you use these pronouns, and the connections they have to fetishes revolving around the common misinterpretation of intersex bodies (as in, "having both parts")

Thank you for reading.

I hope you learned something. I know I did, and I now have a headache.

[bootyshaker63]

«smile if you're one of the most mischaracterized characters in genshin»

kaveh:

[giggleboxstudios]

"People" who treat gyarus like a porn category will never realize that there is more than just kogal style and ganguro. It's a whole spectrum of styles that are designed to deviate from traditional Japan standards. Gals are NOT Asian bimbos! (Unless voluntarily combined)

NOTE: I'm not a gyaru, but even I know better.

[brightygirl]

Do not call me that.

I’m not « an elder ».

No, I only started to transition for almost a decade.

I’m 37 and I don’t « look younger ».

No, I’m a Vietnamese descent and that’s simply a fetishist vision of Southeast Asian bodies.

I’m not your « fragile little thing ».

No, I’m autistic but stop trying to baby up me until I consent or ask for this.

I’m not your « mommy ».

No, I’m older or experienced doesn’t mean I should pamper you. You’re objectizing transwomen bodies.

I’m not your fantasy.

[spot-the-antisemitism]

Nice idea bud but, how about you substantiate your ideas with some sources, instead of claiming that “colonized peoples cannot perpetuate colonial systems”

https://www.tumblr.com/dailyanarchistposts/771491302604947456/revolutionary-nationalism

It’s like saying “poles can’t be antisemitic because they were colonized by the Russians”

Anyways hi Cecil 👋

Hi Bob!

It's EVER WORSE than you spotted

HMM no author or date of citation. Holy bad citation, Somerton.

cool thesis based on the noble savage trope

WHITE HINDUS?! followers of the the closed South Asian ethno religion?! WHITE?! DEEPLY UNSERIOUS

"Israel is a white colony because Jews cannot oppress and Israel is oppressive therefore because Jews are perfect victims incapable of violence, Israel is white" DEEPLY UNSERIOUS

"Support for Israel is philosemitism" It absolutely CAN be! you know what ELSE is philosemitism? the belief that Jewishness is built of virtue and by doing harm you stop being Jewish!

Also the tagging system and the fact that they only steal other people's work means this is a bot

[foenixed]

When people criticize the fetishization of MLM, a frequent defense both is saying that it's not like other fetishization of minorities because "It has no real world effect, it'd just women enjoying fiction, why are you policing what women can enjoy?" And what I have to say to that is that is factually incorrect. A quick google search reveals stories of women harrassing gay men because they feel a sense of entitlement and believe they cannot cause real harm, (an interlinked phenomena with gay men harrassing women for similar reasons). When looking at these stories, it becomes clear that the fetishization of gay men isn't just online or fictional behaviour that doesn't affect people, it unsurprisingly has the same objectifying and dehumanizing effects as fetishization against any other group and must therefore be treated with the same level of seriousness.

[magnetothemagnificent]

I dunno as someone who actually has problems with my urinary system and wants to read fics where characters experience similar experiences to myself, I hate how the only genres of "character has incontinence/urinary dysfunction" are either kink related, age-regression related, or both.

Like how about people can have urinary incontinence/dysfunction without it being fetishized or infantilized?

[hussyknee]

I find it incredibly toxic that the FirstPrince fandom insists that men and boys can't experiment with each other and still be straight. Gay men and women can hook up with the opposite sex for years before accepting their identity, straight women experiment with each other all the time, but when two guys do it it's automatically gay.

Having gotten off with a friend once or made out when they were both drunk is not definitive proof of sexuality. Masturbating next to each other while watching porn is a common thing in jock culture and some straight boys literally have masturbation contests. Liam reaching over and finishing Alex off once was a step outside it that could easily be read as a one-off. It was the reason Casey McQuiston wrote it: the aggressive masculinity of jock culture and its compulsory heterosexuality normalizes behaviours that would otherwise be seen as heteronormative taboos. (Just say you've never met boys school rugby bros lol.) Making out is definitely not jock culture, but fooling around while drunk is just teenage (hell even college) behaviour. The fact that it took Alex years to admit that he had been genuinely attracted to Liam is completely understandable, especially since neurodivergent people have a lot of difficulty identifying their own feelings.

It's incredibly oppressive and fetishizing to treat men and boys like doing anything outside of a heterosexual box makes them automatically queer, and them refusing a label means they're in denial. Alex was in denial, but his behaviour in high school is not an argument clincher.

[maive-the-sheep]

I'm intersex, im trans, i have aspd, im demisexual and various other things are huge parts of me that people have wanted me dead or "corrected"

A lot of people view romanticization and sexualizing these traits and others as just as bad as standard discrimination. And i disagree.

If someone only sees me as those. Ignoring my struggles. Ignoring other things that make me me. That views me as just that. Yeah, that suck and they should work on more rounded view.

But I will take the latter over the standard discrimination. The latter I might be able to talk to for more nuanced view. The prior? I stay away from.