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from the inbox, #10
I love to see new asks about post season 15 destiel fics but my answers are mostly the same, unfortunately. The usual disclaimer applies - our blog transitioned to archive in January 2018, during season 13, and our new fic recs drastically decreased.
Hello, could you recommend any plot-driven fics set post-15x20 that are a bit longer and also explore the relationship between Dean and Castiel? I'm mostly looking for something that is canon compliant (Dean dies and goes to heaven in 15x20)
I’ve answered similar asks on our previous from the inbox posts, so definitely check out those. But for the sake of convenience, here are some links - post 15x20 rec lists Happiness isn’t in the Having and Good things Do Happen . These are mostly short fics, but you can always check out the authors and see if they have longer fics.
This is random, but do you know any fics where Dean starts dating cas because he feels bad? Something like dean dates castiel as a pity date? I've really been wanting to read something like that :p
This is very random indeed! Especially if that is meant in a post 15x20 setting. I must admit I’m drawing a blank here.
hi! not sure if this is the right place to ask this (if it’s not im rly sorry!) but can u rec me some destiel fics where like . dean thought they were dating all along and cas didn’t? sorry if it didn’t make a lot of sense! thanks
And this is an opposite of the previous ask!
OK, guys, since there is huge interest in post finale destiel fics, I’m opening floor for follower recs/ self recs on this post. Please add in reblogs or notes destiel fics that fit these criteria:
A - longer, plot driven post 15x20 fics that explore Dean and Cas relationship
B - fics where Dean takes Cas on a pity date after Cas confessed his love in 15x18; canon verse fics are preferred but if you have some AUs, feel free to add
C - fics where Dan thought they were dating while Cas had no idea
****
We have some fic suggestions from our followers!
A - canon verse fics dealing with 15x20
The Blood Curse by Labgeek2002 [M, 32,700 word count]
Castiel has been rescued from the Empty, but the spell used to retrieve him tears a hole in the dimensional wall that acts as barrier protecting Earth from the pull of everlasting darkness. As the Empty feeds off of Castiel's grace to sustain itself, driving him closer to death with every passing minute, Dean becomes desperate to save him. The only way to repair the damage is for Dean, Sam, and Cas to travel back in time to obtain a witch's stone that's in the possession of John Winchester, circa 2002. A twenty-three year old Dean Winchester will serve as their guide as they navigate the tumultuous father-son relationship that transcends time itself before the Empty draws its final curtain.
Beyond This Illusion by tiaevans87 [NC-17, 161,400 word count]
“Are you serious, Dean? Your djinn-dream started with you dying?” Sam asks incredulously from the passenger seat on the way back to the bunker. “Well, technically it started with us going on a hunt,” Dean points out. He licks his lips, jaw clenching. “I mean, there was Heaven, too, and that was pretty cool.” Sam stares at him. “Unbelievable,” he breathes, scrunching his face up in distaste. When Dean glares at him, he holds his hands up defensively and chuckles weakly. “Sorry, man, but that just sounds pretty lame.” He leans back and folds his arms. “It just…I dunno. Kinda sounds like something Chuck would cook up. Just you and me. No one else. I mean, really?” He scoffs, slumping. *~*~* In which some people come back, Cas learns to be human (the right way, this time), Dean Winchester finally realizes that good things do happen, and they all get their version of the post-credits, apple-pie life they deserved. AKA: Screw Chuck's narrative.
B - Dean takes Cas on a pity date
On Labor by a_good_soldier [NC-17, 24,600 word count]
Cas is back from the Empty, and Dean knows how to be grateful.
because he wears cowboy boots by mmtion [NC-17, 65,300 word count]
When Cas comes back from the Empty, Dean has to rethink everything about their relationship, and Dean’s new, post-Chuck duty. He wants Cas to be happy and get what he wants. So, if he wants Dean, then he has him. Dean’s new responsibility is to be the best boyfriend Cas will ever want or need. If that means moving out of the bunker, and not driving the Impala, and letting Cas fuck him, then that’s what he has to do. It’s an easy deal. It should be an easy life. So how come Dean still can’t quite make sense of it?
#destiel#from the inbox#su#this is kinda experiment#let's see how that goes#all recs fitting the criteria are welcome#feel free to add some thoughts#your very own mini reviews
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In game social media for the magic mountain npcs like "living it up at the local cyberpunk horse murder bar" and "bruh I hate living in mm row tf is this [pic of the Contamination]" and "saw an old fisher bear go in the hut, and a youthful office twink emerge... I'm convinced he's two ppl" and "WHY ARE THERE SNAIL TRAILS THROUGH MY GARDEN WE DONT HAVE SNAILS??"
#pleasepleasePLEASE feel free to add this is literally judt off the top of my head#for the other mountaineers or hermitcraft as a whole#“bruh the post malfunctioned i got some weird love letters addressed to 'joel'”#“WHERE DID ALL THE SHOPS GO 😭 i thought the purge was TUESDAY not SUNDAY god dammit”#“breaking into the popup containment area to get my groceries 😭”#hermitcraft#joel smallishbeans#grian#magic mountain#mumbo jumbo#mcyt#moss' madness
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So let's talk about the lyrics Isolde and Kakania were singing at the end of "Through the Glass"!
As the story described, Isolde was singing a part of the opera "Tristan und Isolde," specifically the part where Isolde is waiting for her rendezvous with Tristan.
In this part, Isolde ignores the calling of horns that signals the arrival of King Marke—the king she's supposed to marry—, insisting that it's just the rustling of the wind or the trickling of the stream, even though her maid tells her over and over that it IS the sound of the horns and the king is nearby.
In our Isolde case, I think we can interpret the call of horns as symbolizing the reality that Isolde doesn't hear—or rather, doesn't want to hear. Because "the calling of horns does not sound so sweet" compared to "the silence of the night" (the peaceful dream she doesn't want to wake up from), and the promise of meeting with "He who is waiting for me in the silence of the night," which—I think we can agree—is Kakania in her dream.
And unlike the "run away with me, Cavaradossi" scene, this time Kakania responded with her part!
Or at least... in the loose sense of it, because the part Kakania chose to sing skipped a lot of events ahead from Isolde's part, which is very interesting! Isolde's lines are from Act 2, while Kakania's are from Act 3: after the king catches Tristan and Isolde in the middle of their rendezveous, Tristan gets stabbed by his betraying friend, and he wakes up with a severe injury that will kill him very soon.
I think this might be intentional—to symbolize that Isolde is stuck in the past, in the happiest moments of her life, while Kakania is facing the reality of the present, in the aftermath of everything that has happened to them.
Unlike Isolde, who sang her part faithfully to the opera, Kakania took the full creative liberty of only singing a few lines from Tristan's part and straight up skipping the rest of it. Which is a bit disappointing at first (the time she actually played along with the opera act and she didn't even do it properly, smh), but this means that every single line she sang was deliberately chosen to convey what she wanted to say to Isolde!
I interpreted the first part of the lines as her expressing how lost she felt after the Storm washed away their era. She fully expected to get reversed by the Storm to atone for her sins, and now that she's left as the only survivor, she has no place nor people to return to. Her life, her purpose, the dream she worked on all her life, and the people she strived that dream for... all gone. She no longer knows where she's standing in the world and what lies ahead for her.
We can also interpret this as Kakania responding to Isolde, who was singing and waiting for Kakania as her "Tristan," saying that she can't meet her in fear of triggering Isolde's trauma and making her condition worse.
And the second part... is Kakania's resolve, that even if everything has changed, even if she's stranded with no era to return to, she will still stay on her path of striving to the betterment of the world, of trying to fix "the cracked mirror" no matter how fragile and broken it is. Back then, by fighting for the rights of arcanists and the other "outsiders" in Vienna, and now by doing all she can to help with the Storm.
...and this also means goodbye. Because Isolde chose to stay in the past, and Kakania, who took a different path, respected Isolde's wish and headed on alone into the future.
But goodbyes don't always last forever. And as Kakania said at the end of her story:
#I just realized that the first two images make them look like 'can we pretend that airplanes in the night sky' meme and now I can't unsee it#reverse 1999#isolde#kakania#isokania#reverse 1999 spoilers#vereinsamt#r1999💫#this has been sitting so long in my drafts that I started to hate it#so I have to quickly release it to the world before I'm deleting everything#also this is just my personal interpretation!! and this is based on a quick research about 'Tristan und Isolde'#I don't know much about 'Tristan und Isolde' and operas in general. so there might be some nuances I'm missing here#I'm curious about what others think about this scene. so feel free to add in and share your thoughts!#through the glass spoilers#now presenting vingler's mirror
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fake ep idea + doodles
#i was thinking abt how funny it would be if there was a shiftythrifting blog equivalent in lmk. and half the stuff on there is#submitted by wukong. so i thought a yard sale ep would be funny lol#basically the hoard becomes problem one way or another and wukong figures the best way to get rid of his junk is thru ebay#somehow ends up selling world ending artifacts to random megapolis citizens so mk mei and redson have to scramble to find em#purposely meant to mirror the weekly shenanigans s1-2 style eps that are really goofy (dumpling ep noodles ep etc)#but it gets darker and darker because MK is not fucking ok after that whole thing with the scroll and some unchecked identity crisis#for me id want him to kind of. freak tf out because they have to find MULTIPLE chaos inducing items that could end the world while trying t#be sillygoofy and funny about it. so hes trying to mask his panic with “ohhh guys its just like the good ol days ^_^ remember that ^_^”#ESPECIALLY after that whole thing with the ink scroll. also mei doesnt buy any of it and is worried for him the whole time#as for the B plot it could be monkey king also trying to be very relaxed abt selling 4000 years worth of stuff and tang getting all huffy#like “these are priceless artifacts that could help us learn so much about the past!! wtf man!!!”#and maybe it reveals smth like wukong not wanting to hold on anymore bc his past weighs him down. and theyre all reminders#i think azure mentioned that wukong is sentimental (idk if that was genuine or lying to mk) so that could be touched on to#so basically. the theme would be some sort of conversation abt nostalgia. i think. im not a writer so its very fuzzy in my head#if anyone wants to add on or include their own spin on it feel free. also included undercut redson as a treat somewhere in there#myart#lego monkie kid#monkie kid#lmk red son#lmk mei#lmk MK#lmk xiaotian#lmk xiaojiao#lmk sun wukong#lmk swk#doodles#lmk tang#lmk pigsy#lmk traffic light trio#yard sale ep
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Happy Birthday to Ferdinand von Aegir!
I actually made 33 emotes, affectionately known as Aegirglyphics to some, for my own personal use on discord. However, I figure why not share some of them! They're free to use for discord servers/icons/pfps or whatever. However, my only request is Do NOT use them as subscriber emotes on Twitch. You can make them free follower emotes but you are not to make them locked behind a paywall.
#fe three houses#ferdinand von aegir#discord emotes#i thought long and hard about this bc idk the actual want for emotes i made ages ago but#i still love my son and its his bday ad so i should be nice and share#since i no longer have nitro and can no longer use them myself#the fact i can technically post 30 at once was tempting but#some of them arent living up to my standards and also just might not be easy to use in most contexts#so those im gonna skip on lol#whoever wants 21 aegirglyphics tho have at em#i think i might have posted some before? but only 10 and i dont recall which ones#if you want a secret the last three and the middle on the second row are my favorites to use#i used concernednand (the upper one) so much#the internet concerns me guys it was a valid use every time#debated sharing heartnand but honestly the world could benefit from it imo because gotta spread that love#fun lil trivia i love making emotes and so when i was in a server and people knew me as the ferdinand fan and artist#someone was like why hasnt salmon made a ferdinand emote yet#and im like bc i dont run the server and i cant just demand they add my art#and then a mod was like i didnt wanna put pressure on salmon but i thought about it so i was like bet#and then drew a server exclusive happy ferdinand emote#and that was the start of me somehow being able to have like.... ten emotes in that server#some of them were just me joking and then mods encouraging me#cause i used to use felix for every single art prompt theyd give and one week someone said the prompt was pog#and i just was so upset because dude why would i wanna draw felix for that hes not pog#so a mod was like hey if you make a pog felix emote we ill add it to the emotes here#so i once again was like bet and then posted it and then they really added it lmao#anyway sorry for so many rambles please feel free to use them on discord in whatever server#i cant really expect everyone to credit me but also im not really concerned since i fear people know my nands a mile away
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it’s crazy that the two *big* Adolin theories going around are a) he will become Odium’s champion, or b) he will take on the shard of Honor. there is so much Character stuffed into Adolin Kholin that both outcomes make perfect sense for him narratively, yet they’re almost complete opposites within the story
#and then there are theories like. he’s gonna continue just being some guy#feel free to add your two cents in the tags/reblogs/replies#i actually really want to hear people’s thoughts#UGH adolin is SUCH a good character#so good that the fandom thinks he could have one of two completely opposite outcomes#the thing about the odium’s champion theory is that he needs to be pushed to that point by someone/something else#so i’m just really hoping that something pushes him past his breaking point and he becomes OC#i’m also the number 1 tragedy enjoyer in the world so i’m biased#sorry guys i actually CANNOT stop posting about adolin#i can’t get him out of my head#vin speaks#the stormlight archive#wat spoilers#wind and truth#wind and truth spoilers#wind and truth speculation#wat speculation#brandon sanderson
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Add with your own AU Billy ideas please and thanks, I’m trying to make a list for reasons
Robin Billy; as per name, he becomes a Robin for any reason. Specifications do not matter
Old Man Marvel; Fawcett comics Cap naturally aged with his 30 year gap thanks to Suspendium. He was 14 during WW2 so I place him in 2024 as 64 years old currently
Winona or Winne Batson; Female version of Billy
Eterni-Kid Billy; Billy who hasn’t aged since the 40’s, is still 14 when he detransforms and is upset about that
Retired Billy; Same age as Old Man Marvel, retired the hero life and is happily married and running Whiz in Mr. Morris’ stead with Cissie
Better world Billy; Billy whose parents got the powers instead of him and Mary as per Power of Shazam
Billy Todd; Billy who is half brothers with Jason Todd with a shared dad, PoS backstory
Bats of a Cloud Billy; Childhood friend AU with Tim, yes this affects things
Thunder Lizard Billy; Jurassic League AU with Billy and Cap as Brontosaurus’s
Justice Lords Billy; Lobotomized patient at Arkham under Supermans orders, was made a threat when he opposed the Lords and dealt with accordingly. Surgically removed vocal cords for safety precaution in case his lightning could heal him
Earths Champion Billy; God of Gods Billy who instated 7 new Shazam Families in the continents of origin of the original Council members with 7 new Champions and their found family/friend groups, Billy retired to the Rock and focuses on larger scale issues
Baron Billy; Version of Billy who became the King of the Funlands over King Kid, has a different set of rules in place that banish adults over enslaving them
#shazam#billy batson#wow I had mroe ideas than I thought I did#eterni kid and the like are more Billy fandom wide ideas but I wanted to get some out of the way here#feel free to add yours with minor descriptions!#dc#dc comics
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Sometimes all a guy needs is to become my cute little barbie doll
#I’m not sure what audience I should aim for with my posts#since I’ve talked to so many of you cuties (feel free to add yourself to that list! DMs are open :3)#and you all like such different and interesting stuff!#even inside the small circle of forcefem!#there’s so many angles you can take#I guess I should just keep posting what comes to mind#and accept that not every post will hit for everyone#though I also kinda wanna try doing some *less hygienic* posts#and I don’t want to make folk’s uncomfortable#but I also really want to give my pee play mutual some content!!!#please tell me if you’ve got thoughts on this!#.#forcefem
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personal lyric analysis series (2/?): there’d better be a mirrorball - arctic monkeys
#alex turner#arctic monkeys#there'd better be a mirrorball#the car#lyric theories#once again i'd like to add a disclaimer: this is just some personal theories mixed with a few good years of following alex's career so it#might not make sense/convey the actual meaning at all#i'm making a series 'cause i find it very enjoyable to sharpen my reading comprehension skills! also some people enjoyed the#last post of the car analysis so i'll just keep doing it as much as i can lmao#please feel free to add your thoughts on the matter :)#jules.rar#analyses on al's lyrics#queue
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okay, my personal thoughts on the jury vote/televote drama (as unbiased as possible):
i understand people’s disappointment when their favourite doesn’t win. i also understand how that disappointment can turn into frustration when it turns out that was the most popular entry with the general public, yet it didn’t result in victory.
for me, the presence of juries in the contest is non-negotiable. i think they help to recognise aspects of the songs that very often get overlooked by the viewing public - composition and vocal ability being the two most important. i think of estonia from this year, a song and performance that most definitely deserved the love they got from the juries to push them up the scoreboard. i think of albania 2018, switzerland 2021, portugal 2022 - all entries that deserved to be recognised, and were not given that by the televote.
all of that is not to say the jury is faultless. i agree with most, that the criteria the jury is told to judge upon should be modified/expanded. i think they should drop the focus on commercially successful songs to help level the playing field for songs in languages other than english (or popular languages like italian or spanish). they should also include people from more diverse musical backgrounds to appreciate alternative forms of music like rock, jazz, folk and music with ethnic elements etc. they could also make the juries larger (i think just doubling the size to 10 people would already make such a huge difference).
i think the biggest change the EBU needs to make regarding the juries is to be much more transparent. the general public has no idea why the juries exist, or what they are even judging on. each show the presenters should explain the criteria the juries judge on. because i’ve seen so many comments on social media over the past 12 hours which seem to fundamentally miss the fact that the juries judge based on criteria which is given to them by the EBU. they do not simply sit down and make a ranking of their favourite to least favourite.
the big point for me is that the jury vote is NOT supposed to be representative of the public vote. there would literally be no point to it if it were. therefore the jury having different scores, and ultimately a different winner than the televote, does not in itself mean that there is a problem with the juries. if you ask me, it means that the juries are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. they recognised the song which best fit the criteria they were asked to judge upon… tattoo.
and i would also add that tattoo was immensely popular with the public as well, it came second in the televote. and the juries placed televote winner cha cha cha in fourth position. so the argument that the juries are out of touch with the european public (at least when it comes to the top spots) just doesn’t add up.
since the juries were reintroduced in 2009 we’ve had 4 types of victories
• where the televote and jury vote agree on a winner (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2017)
• where the televote winner has won overall despite not winning the jury vote (2011, 2018, 2021, 2022)
• where the jury vote winner has won overall despite not winning the televote (2015, 2023)
• where the winning song has won neither the jury vote nor the televote (2016, 2019)
so, in the 14 contests with the 50/50 jury televote system, only twice has the jury overridden the televote to decide the winner. the televote has overridden the jury vote double as much. in fact, the majority of times (8 times, if you include the 4th category since on both those occasions the winner came 2nd with both televote and jury vote) both have agreed on the winner. overall, the televote has gotten their winner to win the overall contest 10 times out of the 14 contests since the reintroduction of the jury.
therefore i find the conclusion that the jury is tainting the results of the contests’ winners not based in reality.
now, all of that is simply the opinion of one girl who likes eurovision. you can take it or leave it. i don’t think this will change anyone’s mind if they are dead set on the juries needing to perish in hell fire to atone for their sins against euro pop music. but more so i wanted to explain my reasoning behind still valuing the juries as an important part of the contest.
and, two last very important notes:
• käärijä not winning the contest doesn’t mean that he’s lost. it doesn’t mean that you can’t go back and watch his performance a thousand times and revel in the joy it gives you. it will always be there. music is subjective, just because a certain song wins a certain contest doesn’t mean it’s necessarily the best. he has thousands more fans now and you can always support his future career.
• being disappointed with the results of the contest however does not give you the right to send abusive messages and hate towards other contestants. käärijä himself said after the final yesterday that he cannot complain about the rules and he was happy for loreen. this is the same guy who was so distraught when he received one hate comment that he deleted all his accounts on social media. he wouldn’t want anyone to be doing the same towards his fellow artists. the contest was about being united through music, and sending hate won’t change the results, and it won’t make you feel better either.
#i may add some more onto this later but yeah this is my more coherent thoughts#if anyone wants to discuss more about this feel free to message me :)
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The Book: Everything We Know So Far and Possible Connections
The Book's lore is driving me crazy and I had to write this. This isn't meant to be a solid cohesive theory on anything but I wanted to compile everything we know about the Book, some rather disturbing implications of what that might mean, and which characters may or may not have a connection to it, as well as what that connection might be.
This is a long post, so I've bolded the key info. You can skim those if you don't want to go through everything. :)
***Major spoilers for BSD and for Beast!***
Main Series Information:
The first mentions of the Book occur in Chapter 28, when Fitzgerald tells Atsushi that the Guild's goal is to locate it. He tells Atsushi that only one copy of this book exists, and that neither flames nor abilities can damage it.
Fitzgerald claims he knows the Book is there because a prophet ability user foresaw that it had been sealed within Yokohama. When Atsushi asks what the relation is between him and the Book, Fitzgerald says that Atsushi is the guide to the Book.
In Chapter 35, Fitzgerald states that his goal is to use the Book to bring his daughter back to life.
The next mention is in Chapter 46, when Dazai talks to Fyodor in the alley. Dazai mentions that since Fyodor and the Rats don't have the firepower to burn down Yokohama, he instead needs to exterminate Yokohama's ability users to get to the Book, hence the cannibalism strategy.
Dazai says the true Book is a single novel with blank pages where anything written becomes the truth. Fyodor wishes to use it to make a world without the sin of ability users. Dazai says basically "good luck with that dude" lol. (Actually the line is "Give that a go, if you can, that is." which... might be significant?)
Chapter 58: Taneda dumps a lot of info on Ranpo. His assailant, who we know to be Sigma, stole a page from him, a single page removed from the Book in order to study it. The page has exactly the same capacity to make anything written become reality, it just has limited space to write. However, the Book has a restriction: it requires karmic/narrative consistency.
In Chapter 58.5, Mykola's speech about cages and the freedom of birds is ironically dictated word for word by a mysterious author. The translator note on the unofficial version I'm reading says the mysterious author is using imperfect Japanese with lots of katakana - I cannot confirm this myself, but it has interesting implications on our mystery author's identity if true. The page is used to position the Agency as the terrorists in the white hoods and frame them.
Chapter 59: Ranpo believes the Book was not made by an ability user but by something far greater than that. His proof is that unlike Mushitarou's ability, which can also alter reality, the people affected by the Book also have new memories to fit the alteration to the events. The Agency members remember committing the crime, even though they know they didn't.
In Chapter 70, Mushitarou reveals the DoA plans to use the other side of the page to eliminate the country at the next full moon. I am curious as to the significance of the full moon, given the moon's frequent recurrence in the series and Atsushi's ability connection to it. Chapter 74.5 establishes that the Sky Casino, with its 13 year history, was created 8 days ago when the page was written on, as a base for the next stage and also to "repay" Sigma for the use of his ability to retrieve it. In Chapter 75, Fyodor claims that Sigma, too, was written into existence via the Book 3 years ago - he has no memories before this point.
Chapter 77: the page was written with a condition that no police or law enforcement would believe in the Agency's innocence. However, Tachihara broke through that condition by reaffirming his identity as a member of the Mafia, which (metaphorically) tears the page.
Later references don't tell us too much more but I'll summarize them regardless. Kamui/Fukuchi has the page, which Atsushi knows from Sigma's info. Ranpo made an appeal to the police, explaining that the Agency was framed and the page preventing them from seeing the truth, and half the force sees the truth for themselves, breaking through the page's condition. Ranpo believed the direct opposition to the page's restrictions might sway Fukuchi into believing them (unfortunately, we don't know if this was right, as Fukuchi was not affected in the first place, being Kamui himself). And that's what we have so far.
Disturbing Implication #1: The Special Division knows/knew the location of the Book.
Taneda mentions that a page from the Book was taken to study. This implies that at one point, the Special Division had the Book or knew of its location. The higher ups may still know where it is. There are a few potential timelines here: the first is that the page was removed many, many years earlier, perhaps during the war, and the second is that the page was removed and tested 3 years ago, and Sigma resulted from these trials.
Disturbing Implication #2: Ranpo says the Book was created by something greater.
Something greater than ability users. I suspect this may be something outside their world. At this stage, it seems very likely this "greater entity" is an author - the author of the world we read about (it's Asagiri omg). An author, to the world they write, is akin to a god. I'm kind of joking about the Asagiri thing, but the "author" of the Book is likely someone/something that exists beyond the scope of the world of BSD.
Contradiction: The Book cannot be damaged by flame or ability, but pages can be torn out of it? How?
Beast Information:
Oh boy. Where to even start?
Beast Dazai states that the Book is the origin of the main universe's world, and it contains an infinite number of parallel worlds within it.
"What you write becomes a reality" is actually a misnomer. Writing in the Book calls a parallel world that aligns with what is written directly from the Book. This parallel world will then trade places with the real world.
There is a single physical reality, and infinite possible worlds. The Beast universe exists within the Book, as a possible world.
A version of the Book exists in the Beast universe. However, this Beast version of the Book is more of a weakness. Orders from the real world can overwrite Beast. And anyone who tries to write in Beast's Book will make Beast cease to exist.
Beast Dazai jumps at the end of Beast. This is because if more than 3 people know the truth about the Book, the world will destabilize - it may even disappear without Beast's Book being written in.
Beast Dazai created a singularity using his ability. It's not explained how he did this, but it has something to do with his nullification. He did this to read the memories of real-world/original Dazai - the Dazai who exists outside the Book. (It seems all but given that this is Dazai from the main timeline.)
Though the above conflicts with some of what we know in the main manga, we can take it as fact, I think. The narration is heavy on emphasizing that Beast Dazai is telling no lies in this scene.
Disturbing Implication #3: Any alterations are not inventions but transferrals, which means these events actually occurred in another universe.
This means that the Agency really were the DoA terrorists in a parallel world and they did carry out the plan. They really did take the hostages in this world. Tanizaki really did push the button. This would explain their memories. The caveat of no one in law enforcement believing them might make sense too - they're actually criminals in that world, so they would have no reason to believe them. "Trading places" also implies that the terrorist Agency universe has the terrorists trying to save the hostages like the Agency originally planned to do (potentially).
Sigma is an interesting case. If he really was written into existence from the Book, then he was called from another parallel world - literally displaced from his home. His amnesia likely occurred in that parallel world too.
Disturbing Implication #4: The parallel worlds are more fragile than the main world of BSD.
There is something different about our main universe. The Book that originates here is the real deal. But Beast's (and all the Books from different parallel worlds) leave them vulnerable. These worlds can be destroyed at any time if anyone tries to write in these Books. Only a select number of people can know how it really works before it starts to destabilize. What's more, at any point, someone could write in the real-world's Book and overwrite it entirely, and there would be nothing that any of the people within that world could do about it. And Beast Akutagawa, thinking back on the events of the story, comes to the conclusion that even though his world is "but a shadow", the desires, feelings and actions of the people within it make those people no less real than those in the original.
Beast is a goddamn existential horror.
Character Connections
Now, onto the characters who are known to have some kind of connection to the Book.
Fitzgerald wanted the Book in the Guild arc to bring back his daughter. While this is the first mention of it, given that he got his info from clearly secondhand sources (the prophet ability user or Fyodor, most likely), I don't think he has any sort of deeper understanding of it, nor a more personal connection. Ranpo seems to be figuring out the Book's logistics rather quickly, but I expect nothing less from the greatest detective, and he doesn't have a strong personal connection I can see as of yet. As for Fukuchi, whatever knowledge he gained 36 years ago might be connected... but again, I have nothing else to say on this front, considering we have little else on this (I'm actually more inclined to think it has to do with the war - which may tie in with the Book, but not necessarily). I would also be very surprised if Mori doesn't know something but I have no real evidence for this other than that the man is suspicious as hell. Then again, there's also Tokoyami Island, which "appeared" seemingly out of nowhere and is where Yosano's backstory took place and Fukuchi headed after his argument with Fukuzawa. It seems possible, if not likely, that it was created with the Book. So, let's go over some characters who we actually can expand on a little.
Taneda
Not much to say here other than what kind of research was being done with the Book? Given that Taneda had the page on him, was he the one responsible for the research being conducted on it, or was he just involved?
What kind of research was being done with the page? How were they testing it? The page was blank, so they must not have created anything with it yet. How then, did Taneda know how it worked and that the page would have the same capacities as the full Book?
Taneda doesn't seem to understand the Book completely - he thinks it was created by an ability user, after all, and like everyone else in the main universe he doesn't know the reason the Book requires narrative consistency (that it is pulling from other worlds, not just making anything written come true).
The Special Division likely had the Book at one point, but by the time Fitzgerald comes to retrieve it, it has been "sealed". Did the Special Division seal it? Why and how?
Atsushi
We know he has a lot to do with it. Atsushi and the Book are incredibly intertwined, and the initial conflict was kicked off by a bounty placed on his head for this connection.
He is called the "guide" to the Book. What does that mean? Is he meant to locate it? Unlock the seal? Or is he a guide on how to use it properly?
6 years ago, Shibusawa found Atsushi at the orphanage when he was just a kid and tortured him to extract his ability. He was a researcher who learned about the tiger from Fyodor, who called Atsushi's ability "one that guides the envy of all ability users". And we know Fyodor has been after the Book for a long time, so it's difficult to imagine this does not have something to do with it.
Atsushi is the only character to directly reference a real-life novel in the series and recall reading it. "The head may err but never the blood" and "I only regret what I haven't done" are from the real Nakajima Atsushi's "Light, Wind, and Dreams", a fictionalized autobiography detailing the last few years of the life of Robert Louis Stevenson. While other characters quote their namesakes' fiction on occasion, to my recollection, Atsushi is the only one who explicitly remembers reading the book, but finds himself unable to remember the author's name. Cute reference, or plot significant? You decide.
Atsushi's tiger is heavily associated with the moon, particularly the full moon. For some reason, the other side of the page is to be used at the next full moon and cannot be used sooner. Atsushi's ability crystal, pulled out of him by Shibusawa as a child, is described as "pale and glittering like the moon".
It is entirely unlike the red crystals that form in the Dead Apple separated abilities - including Atsushi's tiger (also red). It is, however, similar to Dazai's, which is white. Atsushi transforms into the tiger to swallow the moon-like crystal - to reiterate, it was outside him when he transformed. What's more, from Beast it's known that this instance was when his ability apparently activated for the first time - how could it do that if it was already removed from him? Later on, Shibusawa tries to take the crystal again and Atsushi's transformation deteriorates, that's true, but bear in mind that Atsushi was convinced that crystal was the tiger, which may have psychologically influenced this. In fact, the moon crystal may not be the tiger at all. It is entirely possible it is something else, and it is likely that which makes Atsushi so sought after. If it is, I refuse to believe this has nothing to do with the Book.
Atsushi's ability is described as the "spark of life that resists all abilities". A reference to his healing factor, perhaps? Or something more meaningful?
He's also referred to as an "angel" by Shibusawa who canonically got his information from Fyodor so... make of that what you will.
Tachihara
This isn't so much about Tachihara having significance in future but more about what his breaking of the page's conditions might mean.
At the crux of this is his split identity - he's a Hunting Dog, but also a mafioso, and his struggle between these identities is his core conflict in the Sky Casino arc.
Eventually, Tachihara, recalling Hirotsu and Gin's words that anyone in the Mafia knows that the Agency is innocent, frantically realizes they have the wrong culprits, thus breaking through the page's caveat that all law enforcement would never believe them, accompanied by a metaphorical tear in the page.
It's intriguing because we don't see this same dramatic depiction later on with the police when Ranpo appeals to them - Tachihara has changed his expected role from police to mafioso. Tachihara is no longer playing the "character" he was meant to play.
He tore out of that restriction in the story. His story line is now on a different path. There are some serious implications of that if a change in character can literally break people free of the Book's reality-altering influence. It is all-powerful so long as everyone plays their expected role in that narrative. Breaking out of that can change the story, even if only minutely.
Sigma
Of course Sigma is connected. He was apparently written into the Book three years ago - which means he came from one of the parallel worlds. (Provided Fyodor is telling the truth about his origins, but I think it would be very strange narratively if this wasn't - at least partially - true.)
I am curious if Sigma will regain some of his memories soon, or if it is even possible for him. If he can regain memories, then they would be from a world within the Book. Or, perhaps his memories don't exist because that world has been overwritten and no longer exists?
Is it possible for Sigma to communicate between worlds using his exchange of information? Maybe this is completely out of left field... I'm just curious what role Sigma is going to play in all this.
It's strange, for someone so obviously connected I... really don't have much to say about him. I just think we don't have enough.
Mykola
There isn't too much to say for certain about him, but I know I was super uncomfortable with his entire speech about birds and cages and freedom being dictated in real-time by the page. That's rough, buddy.
As of this moment, he's supposed to be dead, but somehow defied his fate and is still alive. He decided not to play the role ("character") he was previously meant to, and now he is the cast's biggest wildcard.
Mykola's fixation on freedom at all costs may have some interesting implications for his interactions with the idea of the Book. When his words were written on the page, was the page dictating his speech, or was it merely recording what he was already saying? If the Book is the story, then does the story control the characters, or, as it has been implied by Mykola and Tachihara, can the characters defy the story? When they defy the story, the story changes to accommodate this. Have they really, then, defied anything of significance at all? (For clarity: I don't know if this is where BSD will go with it - in actuality, I'm always confused when people theorize the Book's author is evil and controlling, or that the series will end tragically, given how much BSD loves to emphasize the importance of writing and reading and understanding and living. This is just an example of a few possible questions it may make sense for Mykola to fixate on.)
I don't have a lot to say for certain, but given his need to be free, his connection with Fyodor, and his Dazai-foiling traits, I'd think it very odd if he wasn't involved to some extent.
Dazai
...where to even start.
Dazai clearly knows things about the Book. He appears to know much of what Fyodor does, and it makes me curious as to whether it came up when they first met (whenever that was).
However, main series Dazai doesn't seem to have all the info Beast Dazai does. For one thing, he too echoes that the Book makes all that is written into it become reality. He may know about the parallel worlds within it and could just be lying by omission, but I've seen very little to suggest that this is the case.
Main series Dazai appears to know about certain events long before they occur (not everything though; I need to remind people that he can and has been thrown off/wrong about things before) - notably, most of these planned events revolve around Fyodor. He's been preparing Atsushi and Akutagawa specifically to deal with the upcoming threat posed by Fyodor's pursuit of the Book.
Beast Dazai was somehow able to read the memories of real-world Dazai by creating a singularity with his ability... somehow. It's assumed he must've created it while in contact with the Book (otherwise how else could he have read the memories) but it's actually not elaborated on and we still have little to no details.
If his nullification caused a singularity, then how? Was it a singularity with the Book? Himself? Whatever the Book was sealed with/in? Singularities are still quite mysterious, but they need to involve one of two things - an insurmountable contradiction, or an uncontrollable increase in power with no way to cap it. Given that nullification doesn't lend itself to an increase in anything, it's likely an inherent contradiction.
I think it pretty obvious that Dazai has some special knowledge of the Book; some connection to it. He's been preparing to combat Fyodor for many, many years, and he seems to want to take Fyodor out as quickly as possible. Clearly, his potential use of the Book is a big deal to Dazai and worth putting his full effort into preventing, which is a little odd, honestly, considering he only met him once before the events of Dead Apple. Fyodor must've really made a terrible impression on him.
Where did he come from? There's that post about how Dazai is in everyone else's backstory for some reason, but we don't know his yet. Here's what we do know: He has some kind of connection with the Old Mafia Boss. He wandered around Yokohama for awhile. He's not related to Mori or an orphan he picked up.
While I've seen suggestions that Dazai met Fyodor in the 2 year gap between his leaving the Mafia and joining the ADA, I think there's reason to suggest he may have met Fyodor before he ever joined the Mafia, as a young child. Just bringing it up as a possibility because Beast Dazai's forming of a singularity with it sounded intentional - which means at 16, he would already have known what the Book was. Did he get his knowledge from Fyodor? Someone else?
Why did young Dazai become so listless and unable to find a reason to live? How did he become convinced that he will lose everything he wants so badly to keep when he gets it? Why did he think he could predict everything in advance? Is it just his intelligence and observation? Or is there more to it than that?
While I'm not a huge fan of the "Dazai is the Book" theory (given that it would make him literally inhuman, which I think runs antithetical to his story), on reviewing all this I've come up with a new incredibly deranged and not-at-all-sound theory:
Dazai is the Book's seal. In this essay I will -
Fyodor
First of all, we know hardly anything about him. We don't understand his ability. We don't even know how old he is. He's been with V/the Decay of the Angel for many years apparently... he was involved in Shibusawa's actions... he has some kind of a history with Dazai... he perfected the art of dramatically standing on windy roofs... truly, he's an enigma.
On a more serious note, all we know is that he wants the Book to create a world free of ability users. Free of sin.
This doesn't seem to fully align with Fukuchi's goal. My proof? They have differing concepts of "angels".
Fukuchi's "angels" borrow from the Buddhist concept of Devas and also likely references Mishima Yukio's The Decay of the Angel. Fukuchi tells Tachihara that the angels are the politicians who remain in their lofty seats and send soldiers into war to die. His goal isn't revenge per se, but it does appear to involve dethroning them in a sense. He doesn't mention wiping out ability users nor of having any particular ill-will towards them.
However, Fyodor's concept is closer to the Abrahamic concept of angel, what with the numerous references to original sin, the script for the play in Untold Origins speaking of angels banished by God for their sins, etc. What's interesting is that the play emphasizes ability users as "angels" who have regained some of their prior powers (I find it difficult to believe Fyodor was not involved in the creation of this) - so Fyodor's "sinful angels" are likely ability users. What does this mean for their goals? Are they still aligned? Is the undermining of government necessary for the elimination of ability users? (Also quick note: do not quote me on any religious stuff - I am not religious myself. I do research sometimes but I'm very, very far from an expert ahaha.)
So, now: Cannibalism was part 1 of the DoA's plan, and all the ensuing stages will culminate in the use of the other side of the page.
Firstly, there's the obvious "what will the other side of the page be used for?"
But then there's something else. By the time Cannibalism occurred, the pieces were already in place for the next phase of the plan, where Sigma would steal the page from Taneda. Why then, does Fyodor still claim, on numerous occasions, to be after the Book? The page should be able to accomplish anything the Book can. Either there is something misleading in the information we have been told, or there is something he wants to do with the Book that isn't writing in it. I think the former is more likely but I digress, the latter is still a possibility.
A few more outstanding questions: Why was he spreading info on Atsushi to Shibusawa and presumably Fitzgerald, but not going after Atsushi himself? Wouldn't he want Atsushi as the Book's guide?
What is his connection to the prophet ability user Fitzgerald mentioned - is it him, with his uncanny predictive powers? Is it someone else associated with the DoA? Is it someone in the government? How long ago was this prediction made - was it made long enough ago that this is why V was active in Yokohama?
There's a lot that's very confusing about Fyodor, and I don't think we know nearly enough about him to make proper predictions as to his relation to the Book yet.
Akutagawa
He's only really tangentially related to it through his connection to Atsushi - if any showdown is going to happen involving the Book, you can bet he and Akutagawa will be teaming up for that.
At the same time, Dazai selected Akutagawa as a mentee a long time ago, and he's been planning for them to work together since he met Atsushi, specifically so they can prevent Fyodor from achieving his goals. In Beast, he mentions their abilities form a singularity together - likely that ability to "cut through anything".
I know this may be entirely wild and out of left field but if it can cut through anything... could it damage the impervious Book? Could it even destroy it? Or maybe it could destroy whatever is sealing it? Who knows, but it makes me think they're going to have to destroy something. (Interesting how this runs counter to sskk's need to act as protectors of the Book in Beast... so maybe it will be in defense. It's all so unclear.)
There's also the whole "dragon is the manifestation of the chaos of ability users". Atsushi and Akutagawa are the tiger and the dragon, at odds with each other via rivalry but also in balance. I think it would be very strange if Atsushi's ability were unusual but not Akutagawa's.
In addition to all the above, I am also side-eyeing all the author characters in this series. For one thing, there's very few of them. For another, two of them have died, changing the path of their respective best friends' lives - and in a series that actually... doesn't kill that many named characters off permanently, it's worth taking a look at.
Yokomizo wanted to transcend the boundaries of fiction in his writing to create a mystery that bled into reality - the ultimate mystery. Mushitarou writes to see his friend again, to connect with him through his greatest passion. Poe's ability allows him to take real people and pull them into constructed narratives that can be escaped once they are "solved" - when the story reaches its conclusion. He is also the one who spurs Mushitarou into writing to cope with his loss.
Natsume wrote a few books as well. We don't know completely what they were about (and from my brief research they don't seem to correspond perfectly to his real life novels - might be a reference to Kokoro but the story does not appear to be the same...), but at least one was a series of three novels, with the last featuring an assassin who stopped killing, but Natsume derided these books and said they were not very good. He tore out the last few pages from the third, final book that explained why the assassin changed his path, and gave the book to a young Odasaku with a note "Don't blame me if you regret [reading] it".
Odasaku wanted to complete that novel. It completely changed his perspective on the world and opened his eyes - he re-read it multiple times (if I remember correctly, he also read it over and over to a wounded and exasperated Dazai in TDIPUD lol), and the lack of an ending bothered him immensely, not just because the story was incomplete, but because the scene was necessary to understanding the assassin's character. Odasaku wrote to understand himself and others, because writing novels is writing people. Natsume seemed to think he was uniquely qualified to do so, but Odasaku disagreed, thinking that someone who took lives was in no position to write about them - to understand them.
Odasaku dies. In every universe, and before he gets the chance to write the novel that sits in his mind - except in Beast, where Dazai painstakingly maintained the world to ensure he stayed alive. It seems oddly specific that this one random person should die before having the opportunity to write the story he wished... and I have to wonder if the universe really doesn't want him writing that book for some reason. And if that's the case, then is there any reason (beyond saving Oda from killing) why Natsume encouraged him to do so?
As a bonus, in the anime, Odasaku is the one to title drop "to the stray dogs" as a cheers, which Dazai will later echo. This doesn't happen in the novel... but if you look back at the difference between the anime Book and the manga Book - you'll notice the manga Book's cover is blank. The anime's says "Stray Dogs". Could be something, could be nothing. But it's worth mentioning.
And that's pretty much it for now! As we get more info, I'll continue to update this post. If anything here gives you ideas, please feel free to ramble about it in the tags or comments, or shoot me an ask! I love to read all your thoughts. :)
#this is so long. if you made it through... congratulations! you are probably just as obsessed as i am hgnkvhgvnskf#feel free to add on. these aren't full theories or anything and a lot are just suggestions or open ended questions#i hope this is a helpful reference and at least sparks some interesting thoughts!#bsd#bsd meta#bsd the book#i don't want to tag everyone...#so i won't lol#storyrambles
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Transformers One: Decepticons and Autobots
Yesterday I went to see TFOne and while it was overall a fun experience I think it would be also fun to decompose the way this movie portrays soon-to-be 'cons and 'bots.
Beware of the spoilers!
So the society and worldbuilding of Transformers One is clearly inspired by both Alligned continuity (Transformers Prime and such) and IDW2005 G1 continuity (MTMTE, RiD and such) tales about how the world looked like before the war. Of course it was only a inspiration, the liberties has been taken but some specific changes seem... well, as if they feared their source matherial to me.
Making the society divided to classes, the existence of miners is a clear inspiration from the continuities I mentioned. BUT. Making the miners exclusively (from what i observed and checked on tf wiki), besides D-16, future autobots, when in the inspirations the decepticons basically rised up from the mines is something else.
It might be G1 cartoon inspiration, where we learn in one episode that Quintessons constructed autobots as working class (TFOne: miners) and decepticons as warrior class (TFOne: High Guard). But here, melted with IDW and Alligned inspirations it feels as if the creators wanted to kinda make autobots less morally grey that their inspirations intended. The fact that the only "bully" from higher class than miners we ever see being actually piece of shit with a name is Darkwing, who we know as a decepticon also is pretty telling.
Overall I feel like the creators of this movie really wanted to take inspirations from IDW and Alligned continuity but also felt stangely uncomfortable with the implications of those continuities. Of decepticons having a point, of autobots being morally complicated, to put it lightly. It's understandable as it's a mainstream, singular movie that can't be too complicated, but still it feels kinda disappointing to me.
Giving Orion Pax the role we saw Megatron in in inspirations (a poet and an activist in IDW, a politican and a gladiator in Alligned), in the scene where he gives the speech to the miners really hammers it down. We can literally imagine Megatron doing that in universes that gave inspirations to this movie!
If someone knows more about how the creative process around this part of the movie worked I'd be glad to know!
#also feel free to add your thoughts discussion about that would be so interesting#seeing prowl in the crowd of miners was like a fever dream#megatron got kinda massacred here ok#i have a lot of thoughts about this movie but let's just go with that#transformers one#tf one#tf one spoilers#spoilers#tf one 2024#transformers#transformers theory#maccadam#Optimus Prime#Orion Pax#Megatron#d 16#prowl#this movie was a rollercoaster in some way
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can i have a little ramble about dlc lore/discourse without anyone getting mad
if we accept the idea that the radahn/miquella story was planned from the beginning, i feel like they purposely left out any mention of them interacting in the base game to avoid people figuring it out long before the DLC even dropped. because they know what we're like and the way people figure things out from the most tenuous things is impressive. but it seems to have had the unintended consequence of it feeling like a rug-pull rather than a welcome surprise by the community, because elden ring is a game that rewards you for exploring, for uncovering the tiniest hints to lore in item descriptions, coming to your own conclusions on the story. so to feel completely blind-sided in this way about main story characters that we've formed opinions on for years doesn't feel like it fits with the base game's ethos at all. i get the feeling that players feel played with ironically lol? i'm also not sure fromsoft have ever done anything like this in their games before, where they've brought back main characters from the base game as a final boss, so i think that's had an affect too.
#feel free to add your own thoughts/disagree it is just my opinion init#not trying to be negative honestly just trying to figure this out#cus rn i'm still feeling confused by the radahn/miq stuff#and i get the impression that's got a lot of other ppl confused too#i do like some aspects of it but it feeling so out of left field on the whole is jarring#elden ring#shadow of the erdtree#shadow of the erdtree spoilers#sote spoilers#elden ring spoilers#loreposting
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Welcome to another post in which I (somewhat) ramble about Euclid.
The line "a parallel I'd lay my life on." is such a sweetly spoken juxtaposition. To be parallel to another person is to be one in the same: someone that mirrors your ideas and possibly even physical attributes. A "bitter reflection", if you will.
Now, in maths (for those who don't know: it's suggested that the title Euclid either comes from the philosopher, or, more likely, the mathematician, often known as The Father of Geometry, and most famous for his work on symmetry) parallel lines only ever come in pairs. It's not mathematically possible to have a single parellel line. These lines always the same distance apart: they never meet.
If they do? They stop being parallel lines. They destroy their own definition, they entire thing that makes them them, for the sake of joining.
Plus, Euclid's lesser known definition is a copy of the same, coming from Euclid the mathematician.
To call this person "a parallel", therefore, is bittersweet. They are, by textbook definition, his foil. For parallel lines to meet is to ensure some form of destruction. Of what and whom, that is yet to be seen.
#had a little thought in class today#I know Vessel hates to see me coming with my analysis#the lit student in me never died out I fear#but diging my fingers into stuff like this is fun so I don't mind#as per usual: if anyone has some extra thoughts feel free to add on!#analysis Euclid feels like beating a dead horse to me but sometimes I get a little gold out of it lol#sleep token#st#mel's rambles#euclid#lyric analysis#tmbte#take me back to eden#vessel#vessel sleep token
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Kung Fu Panda 4 - The Movie
The last really, really long discussion post (for now).
Major spoilers ahead!
This review is full of spoilers, so please refrain from reading through it until you've watched KFP4. I would highly suggest doing so, as I want everyone to form their own opinions without my influence. The movie has its flaws (some of which admittedly being a bit distracting), but it's a fun film that has things to offer.
Kung Fu Panda 4 is a fun movie (take that as you will) that takes its audience on an action-packed, surprisingly funny, yet relatively contained adventure on which Po doesn't really do much. It's an inconsequential, safe sequel that doesn't really hurt the franchise but adds close to nothing.
I had a good time watching the movie. It was obviously produced with its theater experience in mind and the action scenes especially reflected that priority. The humor was actually funny sometimes and I enjoyed Po and Zhen's dynamic. During the film, I was able to put most (most!) of my grievances aside and take the movie for what it is. I've discovered that the best way to watch KFP4 is with low expectations and an open mind.
I have a lot of things to say about KFP4, both complaints and compliments (though the former might be taking the forefront in this review), and I hope this review can help those of you who have seen the movie organize your thoughts. I've been having a lot of trouble with that specific aspect of things myself. Those who get it get it.
With that said, let's get into my full review of KFP4! I've been waiting for nearly 2 years to write this and I'm so excited to share every single thought.
I'm going to follow the format of my first discussion post and curate a bulleted list of my thoughts, followed by an analysis of each of these points. Keep in mind that everything I say is IMO and this is more of a rant post than anything else.
Here are my main points:
The Furious Five's role is comically minuscule in the context of the film. Their actions are inconsequential and add nothing to the plot (a confirmed last-minute add), and they have 30~ seconds of screen time. Shifu is also largely irrelevant.
Mr. Ping and Li's presence has little to no effect on the movie (though I won't complain too much because they were pretty fun to watch and this movie has bigger problems). In almost any scenario, I am adamantly against having characters present that don't add anything to the narrative; however, Mr. Ping is an exception. I love Mr. Ping. James Hong is a gem.
Zhen's screen time is not utilized well and her character is underdeveloped. She definitely wasn't annoying, but I didn't find her either compelling or funny enough to warrant the screen time she was given, especially considering it wasn't used to establish a backstory/strong motives. This makes me feel bad for the character because the movie kind of screwed her out of any substantial development.
The Chameleon, while complimented greatly by Viola Davis, is an underwhelming villain. Viola Davis is amazing in this film and I would suggest watching it for her performance if for nothing else, but the Chameleon is underwhelming considering the super cool concept behind the character.
The film feels very rushed. Apologies to those who disagree, but I think the pacing is atrocious and the final fight is anticlimactic. The movie felt like a word-vomit with no discernible intermissions that stops abruptly when the film ends.
I felt as though Po didn't change/grow as a person and the audience never had a chance to either bond with or relate to his character. His internal struggle is kept to a minimum and we don't spend a moment alone with him as an audience, which is disorienting and distracting. Watching the film felt like running into an old friend at the store who's too in a rush to have a real conversation.
The action scenes were strong with few exceptions. Creative art direction was utilized and I thought the martial arts choreography was entertaining and dynamic. I love the color palette of the film and many scenes were very impressive visually.
With my main points established, I do believe it's ranting time. Strap in, folks.
Let's start strong with the Furious Five: I'm gutted. Chagrined, despondent, crestfallen, etc.
The lack of the Furious Five negatively affects KFP4 so much, because not only does their absence hurt the atmospheric integrity of KFP as a franchise, it also forces KFP4 to bring in a slew of different characters—all while still noncommittally including the FF at the very end because I believe the marketing team required it—that clog up the cast a bit. It all goes to show how important strong, established side characters are.
The Furious Five are side characters, but the role of "side character" does not equate to being irrelevant, expendable, or exchangeable. I recognize that the Furious Five aren't super developed as characters beyond a handful of lines that allude to traits sprinkled sparingly among the members; however, I believe that the tiny bits of development we have been given have proved impactful in the past. Tigress's development in KFP2 is a prime example of how much narratively conscious changes (however small they may be) can positively affect these movies.
Because of limited runtimes, the Furious Five often operate as more of a singular unit than five individuals. Even so, I don't think discarding them is valid. They're so important to the KFP universe (to Po's universe!) and not having them with him feels so wrong. The Furious Five are fully integral to the heart of Kung Fu Panda, which is why I believe a lot of those who have seen the new movie have expressed something feeling "off" or something being missing.
I agree with this sentiment. To me, KFP4 didn't feel like a KFP movie. I don't need a Furious Five spin-off movie and I can be fully content with a KFP5 centered around Po's journey as an individual as was intended from the beginning, but he can't carry an entire movie on his back. As strong as he is in every sense of the word, he is only one character. He's the centerpiece of the franchise, but a centerpiece can only go so far without the rest of the design, so to speak.
For me, the Furious Five's absence is one of this film's biggest faults. It's huge and glaring. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, either, because the friends with whom I saw the film refused to talk about any other aspect of the movie after seeing it. Seeing them at the end was better than nothing, of course, but it was a disappointing culmination after eight years of waiting.
That all is to say I feel robbed. Despite all of this, though, I understand that there were reasons why the Furious Five weren't included in the movie. I don't believe the production team would exclude the Furious Five unless they weren't given a choice.
Shifu and Po's dynamic continues to be thoroughly delightful but their interactions are short and simplified. I would have loved to see more of them in this film, especially considering the extreme relevance of teacher-student relationships in KFP4. I (somewhat) digress, though, because the idea of Shifu having to live at the Jade Palace with only Po for an extended period of time is hilarious enough on its own. Maybe that's what the short film is about!
The comedy is odd but has some jokes that stand out. Po maintains a healthy relationship with his inner sass, which I think makes him more fun to watch and kind of eradicates the man-child verdict. Some jokes don't land, of course, but I genuinely thought KFP4 had some funny moments. Mr. Ping was consistently awesome and Po had some good lines sprinkled throughout the film.
As for Mr. Ping, he and Li Shan are the subjects of the film's B-plot as they follow Po to Juniper City out of shared concern for their son's safety. In my mind, they don't add anything to the story that couldn't have been brought about by other characters, but they had their moments of being entertaining. I enjoyed their silliness and thought they had a cute dynamic if nothing else.
Speaking of other characters, I want to discuss KFP4's deuteragonist and why I genuinely feel bad about the way her character was treated.
I want to let it be known that I'm still not on board with Po passing the Dragon Warrior torch to another character. While I agree that his arc is now calling for him to have a student, I disagree with the notion of him retiring from his DW role.
As I stated in my first discussion post:
Didn’t the initial significance and nuance of the title come from the fact that there is only one person who can be the Dragon Warrior, because the concept of the “Dragon Warrior” isn’t so much a title as it is Po himself? The universe (Oogway) must choose the Dragon Warrior because they are a singular being of legend. It is one person, and that person is Po. Wasn’t the point of the first film that the title ultimately doesn’t really matter because there is no “secret ingredient,” so to speak? The title doesn’t actually give Po anything. “It’s just you,” Po says, and that was the resolution.
When it comes to Zhen as a character, contrary to what I predicted I would think of her, I thought she was okay. While I was still a bit distracted by how out-of-place her design looks, I wasn't truly annoyed by her at any point and she and Po had some cute moments. Even so, I think their relationship could have been a bit more refined and developed.
While it's evident that Po and Zhen are meant to have a teacher-student/mentor-apprentice dynamic, I think their relationship feels half-baked. There were parallels that contradicted one another and ended up being confusing come the film's conclusion, and the nature of their relationship seems to vacillate depending on the scene. Additionally, the strength of their bond goes from zero to one hundred within thirty-ish minutes and left me with a bit of whiplash.
We're shown that Po and Zhen care about one another, but we're never shown why. They have a brief conversation during which they bond over being orphans, and Zhen says at one point, "You're actually a good guy," but that's it. This obvious lack of development is a bit disorienting because we're later led to believe that Zhen and Po care very deeply for one another when there's almost nothing to back it up.
A scene that sticks out to me when discussing this is when Zhen attack-hugs Po in a way that explicitly mirrors Tigress's hug from KFP2. This happens around the beginning of the third act, and while it had the potential to be an endearing moment, I think it fell flat.
The impact of Tigress's hug was brought on by her character's hardcore nature and reputation of being heartless, further strengthened with the knowledge that she was hugging Po (which was obviously way outside her comfort zone) as a show of companionship and fundamental understanding. Tigress hugged Po because he needed someone to recognize his strive for closure.
Zhen's hug had little to no impact because she had no reason to do it and it didn't indicate growth. She hugs Po because she's sorry for betraying him and doesn't want him to be killed by the Chameleon, but neither of these things are newly-established via this hug; we have already gathered by now that Zhen regrets betraying Po and doesn't want him to get hurt.
The hug is far from the movie's weakest point, but I think it's unnecessary given the context. I'm big on hugs in movies (an underutilized form of platonic affection, in my opinion), but it didn't fit here. I don't hate it, and I see it as an honest effort to bring emotionality to Po and Zhen's relationship, but it seems arbitrary.
Zhen and Po's relationship has a lot of potential and I'd be open to seeing more of them in the future, but I think some more thoughtful development needs to occur before I can humor it further. Even so, I can see myself featuring Zhen in some future post-KFP4 one-shots—sparingly, of course, because we have a lot of Furious Five content to compensate for.
Overall, they had a cute dynamic and some sweet moments but I'm not attached. I'm on board with Po having a student but I think their relationship needs a lot more development, something that this film unfortunately didn't give them time to either accomplish or earn.
Now, onto the Chameleon!
The concept of the Chameleon's character is admittedly super interesting. She's the deuteragonist's fastidious mother figure who feels that Zhen owes her a debt and as a result holds her to an impossible standard. That dynamic had the potential to be so interesting but I didn't think it was explored at all. There is no indication of Zhen having any internal conflict about fighting the Chameleon, no emotional complexity between them at all; it's disappointing because I think it would've added a bit of earnestness to the film.
Additionally, the idea of a shape-shifting villain is versatile. A shape-shifting villain gives those telling the story a lot of room to experiment with the protagonist and different ways in which the main character can be challenged and tested. It's yet another good idea utilized poorly. Just one idea: the Chameleon could have disguised herself as one (or several) of Po's family, friends, etc. and brought to fruition a new arc with his character (seeing as he arguably doesn't have one in this film), but she only disguises herself as Zhen very briefly in the movie.
Furthermore, the Chameleon completely relies on the powers of previous villains to pose any sort of threat to the main characters. She summons Po's former nemeses from the Spirit Realm (despite there being little logic in doing so considering Kai's literal evisceration) and takes their kung fu abilities for herself.
An excerpt from my first KFP4 discussion post that I think is relevant to the point I'm trying to make:
I don’t think it would be in the best interest of anyone if the past villains were to come back in any way that’s not a flashback (even then, I’m not sure I’d see the point). In all honesty, I thought that the whole point of the villains was that they died and stayed dead. They were defeated by Po once and for all as a testament to the idea of establishing Po's character growth and journey as a person through the bad things he’s able to overcome. It’d be highly contradictory to the messages of the other films if these villains were to suddenly come back.
While there was an honest effort made to portray the Chameleon as intimidating, I never felt as though any of the characters were endangered by either her or her army of lizard henchman. She's a visually appealing character (aside from her eyes, which I thought more resembled those of a gecko than a chameleon) and I greatly enjoyed Davis's performance, but overall I don't see the Chameleon as a notable villain.
The return of Tai Lung (had he been on his own) had the makings to be an excellent story, especially considering the importance of teacher-student dynamics in KFP4. To see him interacting with Shifu would have been incredible and could have led to further closure on Tai Lung's end (because I think that's kind of what the team was going for anyway), but it didn't happen.
It was nice to see Ian McShane reprise his role, but I wish Tai Lung's characterization had been more reminiscent of the way he was in the first film and more complimentary of his overall character arc. Tai Lung isn't a one-dimensional villain with a singular goal and motivation, and I couldn't help but feel as though the complexity of his character was simplified for the sake of KFP4's narrative.
Tai Lung's presence in KFP4 may be odd, but Shen and Kai's appearances are even more so. Kai, if I remember correctly, was fully obliterated by Po, reduced to literal particles on screen (which is kind of wild now that I think about it). Shen being in the Spirit Realm makes sense all things considered; however, Po and Li had no visible reaction to his presence, which seemed a bit unlikely considering Shen's deeds. This plot hole can likely be attributed to the fact that Shen and Kai's cameos (to my knowledge) were last-minute additions to the movie.
I have to talk about the pacing. I have to. I'm sorry, bear with me.
To me, the film's pacing is erratic and disconcerting. While I can appreciate a quick-moving narrative that doesn't dawdle on storylines that aren't interesting/important, KFP4 kind of flings itself too far in the opposite direction and ends up being frighteningly fast-paced. Once the credits began, I felt like I had been holding my breath for the entire movie.
KFP4 is confusing because while the runtime is standard for a KFP movie, it feels incredibly short. At the same time, the film's story moves at a breakneck speed and leaves little time for heart and development. These things culminate into a barreling boulder of a movie that simply doesn't have time to let its characters, story, or audience take a breath.
A fast pace is not inherently negative, but I don't think it worked in the favor of KFP4. The KFP franchise has always been very emotionally grounded (and just very grounded in general), so to see a film in which emotion/heart takes an aggressive backseat in comparison to action and comedy is jarring. While I think it's unreasonable for fans to expect the same emotional integrity as the original films to be present in the current and upcoming ones, I still think there's room for Po to grow and I felt as though the notion of him developing further was brushed aside in this film.
As for Po's growth, I felt it was nearly nonexistent. The previous trilogy wrapped up his character's journey beautifully and I know that KFP4 was bound to struggle with this particular aspect of making another KFP film; however, just because the strongest pillars of Po's character are established doesn't serve as a valid excuse to reverse his development and repeat what he learned in KFP3.
In KFP3, Po learned firsthand that he is capable of spreading wisdom and teaching kung fu. He also learns that he is constantly growing and that change is inevitable; there is always something more to learn.
"If you only do what you can do, you will never be more than you are now."
"I don't want to be anything more, I like who I am!"
In KFP4, Po pushes against this narrative despite fully accepting it in KFP3, actively reversing crucial parts of his character development achieved in the latter. KFP3 was non-ambiguously about learning to cope with change and responsibility, and I can't help but feel like KFP4 is simply copying this message while not adding anything to it.
Additionally, I felt that KFP4's Po generally felt less personal than he has in the past. In every KFP movie up to the franchise's most recent addition, I felt very connected to Po as an audience member. I felt like I was truly seeing the world of KFP through his eyes. I consider this to be one of the franchise's most impressive feats; it's incredibly difficult to build a universe around a character without making the audience feel limited to one perspective and one part of the world.
With KFP4, I felt both limited and disconnected. The world didn't feel as vast and all-encompassing as it has in the past and Po didn't seem fully like himself. This could be me nitpicking (as I'm prone to do), but I can't recall a single moment in the movie in which Po was alone on screen. Scenes like these are crucial for me because I see them as a meet-cute between the character and the audience, a moment for us to cross the bridge into their world in a way that's silent and intuitive. These little bonding moments are absolutely integral to feeling connected to a character.
Po's dream sequence in the first KFP movie is one of the best examples of this. It presents his aspirations, alludes to his way of life up to the point of the movie, and showcases his personality. During Po's dream sequence, the audience is quite literally inside Po's mind; we're there with him, seeing what he sees, subsequently feeling what he feels. Po is a dreamer at heart and makes the audience feel like dreamers, too.
In KFP4, I felt like I little to no point of reference when it comes to how Po was feeling. I didn't feel immersed in him and his world.
I know I've been very "doom and gloom" throughout this post, which is an exhausting mindset for everyone involved. I want to end my critique with something positive because I think some praise is deserved. Let's just say the movie could have been a lot worse, the details of which I'm sure you're all well aware.
Congratulations, you've reached the end! Thank you so much to all of you who took the time to read this unnecessarily long and detailed review. As long as I help someone translate their conflicted feelings into coherent thoughts, I'll call it a win.
KFP4 has its flaws and there are a lot of aspects that I dislike, but the I greatly admire and respect the hard work put into the film by those of the crew who put their efforts forward and tried their best to make it work. This does not at all excuse my issues with the movie, but it's worth saying.
As for the future of the series, I only hope that the next installment is more considerate of the franchise's origins and why Po's story is being told in the first place. I fully believe that another sequel could be good (even great!), but only given a strong, passionate crew with a great understanding of the characters and world (and I wouldn't be averse to some previous directors returning, just to put it out there).
Thanks again to those who took the time to read this crazy excuse for a movie review. Feel free to either disagree with me or add things in the replies/reblogs, I'm always looking for more thoughts to think.
Until next time!
#kung fu panda 4#kung fu panda#dreamworks animation#kfp#kfp 4#movie review#i'll add the actual picture of the furious five's cameo when i can get ahold of one of decent quality#my time has come#so i didn't love it#but it is what it is#free the five#perhaps i treated kfp3 too harshly#don't get me wrong the movie had good qualities and i can tell a lot of work went into it#a lot of missed potential imo#a lot of characters done dirty#i didn't even mention the score but i thought it was just okay#i wasn't wowed#i know close to nothing about composing though so i should probably just not even go there#credits were the best part both cinematically and musically#i feel mean but i'm not going to be dishonest#bc obviously you all simply must know how i feel about the silly panda movie#a more detailed version of the grievances i have w the dragon warrior plot can be found in my og discussion post if anyone's interested#as well as my thoughts on bringing back old villains#might make some edits to this in the future but this is all i have to say for now#doesn't hurt my love for the og trilogy but i'm still upset#alas we move on
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something something jason piper parallel with jason medea
-both couples influenced into being somehpw by hera (both turn out. badly)
-both jasons die a horrible death
-piper and medea morally gray powerful sorceresses (w/ charmspeak according to HoO) x jason and jason the basic 'hero' archetype
-neither of the women truly wanted to be with the jason (dangit hera)
-tragic in general
#idk im tired#i had this epiphany watching a video abt medea on youtube#i probably make no sense but idk theres similarites#if anyone who can do like literary analyses or just articulate thoughts better than me in general pls feel free to add#pjo#pjo fandom#pjo hoo toa#percy jackson#jason grace#piper mclean#medea#greek mythology#toa spoilers#spoilers#trials of apollo#heroes of olympus#jiper#lightning mclean#(is anyone using that ship name yet)#argo II#yk in hindsight naming the argo II after a boat where most of the sailors died horrible deaths/suffered horrible losses#usually at the hand of some god one way or another#probably wasnt the best idea#welp
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