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purpleheartskies · 1 year

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(These are general thoughts and not directed at anyone in particular.)

Since s5, it's weird how much people actively dismiss storytelling techniques, characterizations, body language in acting, and basically any aspect of storytelling or filmmaking that depicts how toxic and dysfunctional the blended "family" is, and this includes the nuances of Robby's and other characters' behaviors, the use of the pregnancy as an obvious negative plot device, and the ongoing and worsening trauma Johnny has been subjecting Robby to. It's been hard keeping up with the fandom's moving goal posts about what counts as storytelling.

There's also something to be said about the notion that Cobra Kai, being a "comedy", won't explore trauma, mental health, and dysfunctional relationships, although it's clearly exploring these topics. Comedy comes in many forms, some of which are dark or sardonic in nature. The writers have also called Cobra Kai a "dramedy", which is an equal blend of comedy and drama (aka "tragicomedy"). This is what the show has always been. Comedy can also be done at different levels in storytelling. s5e4 is a great example of this. People got a good laugh out of Johnny's antics during the uber scenes, though this is also a comedic yet sad portrayal of how unhealthy Johnny's behavior is. But what is also "funny" about the episode is that it starts with Carmen's dream family with her dream version of Johnny who is put together and mature, but the rest of the episode depicts how Johnny really is: the mess that he's been throughout the series. That meta storytelling took place over the whole episode, and that's also "comedy". The prom episode in s4 had a similar format. Robby had been left out of the "happy" "family" photo early in the episode, and for the rest of the episode, pretty much everyone in the photo had a crappy night while Robby had the best night out of all them (sadly, one of the few episodes that Robby actually "won" compared to the others). Johnny's silly antics are "comedy", while Carmen's "dream Johnny" in s5e4 and the "happy" "family" image in s4e8 being unraveled by exposing the ugly truths is "comedy" too. In fact, there are some comedies in which the overall "joke"/lesson of the story is not only on certain characters as they come to some profound realizations at one point, but on the audience as well. In general, it makes no sense when people claim that this is a "comedy" and "not that type of show" so trauma won't explored in the show. Trauma is fair game in comedy and has always been in play in this show.

Trauma is not only a significant part of Robby's characterization and character journey, but trauma is also part of Johnny's, Kreese's, Silver's, Daniel's, Sam's, Tory's, Hawk's, Kenny's, etc characterizations and character journeys. All of them are characterized to have preexisting traumas and/or experience traumas during the series that drive their behaviors and stories. The story also explores what happens when characters adopt Cobra Kai's / Eagle Fang's aggressive mentality to cope with their traumas. Are people really going to deny that trauma is explored in the story, just so that they can, for example, enjoy the toxic blended family as wholesome despite seeing how dysfunctional it is in all its parts? Johnny and Robby's relationship as well as Miguel and Robby's "rivalry" aren't the only unhealthy aspects of the blended family. Johnny's relationships with Carmen and with Miguel are also dysfunctional. Johnny is an emotionally immature alcoholic who is incapable of keeping down a job, something that Carmen willfully ignores while she parents him. Johnny is also unhealthily obsessed with Miguel, not only risking Robby's well-being for him but also getting impotent over him spending time with another sensei. Nothing about the blended family is good, and that's the point. Johnny isn't capable of having healthy relationships, and Carmen obviously isn't inclined to healthy relationships either. She's an enabler. She enables Johnny's unhealthy behavior with Miguel by making Johnny feel responsible for Miguel's bad behvaior, and she only corrects Johnny's behavior that she views as a problem for her family while ignoring his other faults. She also enables Miguel's selfish and entitled behavior, like how she's never held him accountable throughout the series and how she didn't even discipline him for running away and endangering all of them like he had. Miguel also feels a sense of entitlement over Johnny. Miguel admit to Hawk and Demetri that he wouldn't "let" Robby being with Johnny "get to him", as Miguel believes that he has a right to be upset about Johnny spending time with his own son. People choose to ignore these aspects of Johnny's, Carmen's, and Miguel's characterizations. People especially ignore Johnny's unhealthy behavior in his relationships even though it's a very important and obvious part of Johnny's characterization due to his traumas.

In s5, Johnny's whole arc with the plot device baby was about how his past traumas continue to negatively impact him, especially his inability to properly be a father to Robby. Johnny was fixated on using the baby as yet another "chance" to make up for his failures with Robby, while continuing to fail with Robby. The baby is such an obvious plot device that was used in a toxic way for both Johnny's and Robby's character journeys. In fact, the baby was used as a negative plot device to worsen Johnny's relationship with Robby in s5 just like how the Diazs have always been negative plot devices to worsen Johnny's relationship with Robby since s1.

Johnny's also still an alcoholic, who hasn't gotten his shit together. He started out the series commiting assault while drunk, and he ended s5 committing assault while drunk. It's funny that people say that Johnny has grown just because he himself claims he has (by quoting Rocky, no less), even though he's clearly portrayed as not having grown. So, people think that Johnny has "grown" even though Johnny's still a deadbeat alcoholic with poor mental health who continues to treat his kid like shit, commit crimes and assaults, and give self-centered, self-pitying speeches, while people also think Robby has "grown" because he suddenly seems to no longer have the years of trauma he's been characterized with and that has been worsening since the start of the series? There's a double standard and lack of logic in this thinking. Even the last line spoken about the baby by another character was Silver's words to Johnny: "at least you won't be around to screw up another kid." A line that not only acknowledges what a continued mess Johnny is (given what he did that night), but also acknowledges that Robby is "screwed up" because of Johnny.

Oh, and I'll say it. Even "comedies" have baby plotlines that end in a miscarriage. King of Queens is an example of a sitcom that had a pregnancy/miscarriage arc. Another goal post that people move is that the show isn't "that dark". Are people gonna say that King of Queens was a "dark" show or went "too dark" because they included a miscarriage plotline in it? People act like the obviously toxic blended family is the immutable endgame. But it's not immutable, and as far as storytelling goes, it's been written to fall apart.

Storytelling in shows/films involves characterization, dialogue, cinematography, music, and other audio and visual elements. I know I'm stating the obvious, but from what I've seen people have been purposely picking and choosing what they want to ignore from these things when it comes to the story. For example, it makes no sense when people say that the body language in the Robby scenes in s5 doesn't matter, even though body language is so key in film. Animations for example make sure to include body language for the characters. More recently, the actors in The Mandalorian said they have to exaggerate their non-facial body language when they have their helmets on. Actors also hire body language coaches to help them with their roles sometimes, like Ke Huy Quan did for EEOAO. This isn't to say that the story or production in Cobra Kai doesn't have flaws here and there, but people really, and I mean really, act like the story is a mindless thought dump that is only there to appease fans of Johnny's and Miguel's characters, even though (1) these two haven't been as relevant to the main dojo war plot of Cobra Kai vs Miyagi-Do for these past few seasons and (2) they have two of the worst characterizations and journeys of the "good guy" characters: minimal to no growth, uncaring and unempathetic towards their loved ones, and pretty self-serving (even their relationship is self-serving for each of them), to name a few things. Meanwhile, Robby is still at the center of the dojo war, through his connections with the other characters, and Robby has some of the best character traits. It seems like people in general are choosing to fundamentally misunderstand the story because they still want to believe it's the "Johnny and Miguel show". (I guess, Daniel, Silver, and Chozen's whole dynamic and storyline this season was less important than Miguel running off to find his dad and literally nothing coming of that, as he just went back to focusing on his obsession with Sam soon after he returned. /s)

It also seems that people want "realistic" characterizations, but when they're given that, they complain. They move that goal post too: "Make it realistic... but in the way I want it to be." The thing is trauma and dysfunctional relationship behaviors aren't "black and white". They're not straightforward. They're messy and complicated. And sadly, many trauma survivors, especially those with cptsd, can behave how Robby did in s5: fawning / people pleasing to an unhealthy degree to feel safe and accepted. I've mentioned this in many recent posts. I've also seen others acknowledge that Robby acts like a "chameleon" when he needs to, as seen in previous seasons. Robby's cptsd has been worsening throughout the series, and Johnny and Miguel have played huge roles in it. This continues to be the case in s5. They're essentially the "bad guys" in Robby's story, moreso than even Kreese and Silver are, despite these two being the main "bad guys" of the series. This is an example of how the show continues to be gray. Kreese and Silver haven't hurt Robby to the extent that Johnny, Miguel, Daniel, and Sam have. One person's "good guy" can be another person's "bad guy". Why would Robby like and praise Johnny and Miguel the way their fans do? In s5, Robby was in unsafe situations with them, and he did what he needed to to appease them, especially Johnny.

Wrt the other characters' journeys and their traumas in s5: Kreese had a whole arc with a therapist this season that added more insight into his character. Sam keeps trying to find ways to control the people and situations around her to feel in control and safe as she copes with her trauma from the school fight, which was worsened by the house fight. Daniel was totally paranoid and off balance, especially the first half of the season, because of his trauma from Silver in kk3. Kenny was also still affected by all the bullying he'd endured, and he felt empowered by CK to act on his anger towards Anthony. (Also, Kenny's arc is unique to the others because he only bullied his bully, not random people and his former best friend (like Hawk did) and not some random person he'd felt slighted by (like Miguel still does and like Tory did). Not to mention, Robby had taught Kenny the "right way", but Kreese and Silver's Cobra Kai teachings won out.)

Overall, it makes no sense to look at the whole story and say, "Well, everyone's traumas are still a part of the story... except for Robby's." Another thing about many nuanced "comedies" is that they're meant to be thought provoking. Instead of ignoring important details to cheer on the toxic blended family, maybe we the audience should be paying attention to all the consistent details and calling out the toxic blended family. Even the writers have confirmed (in their recent CKK interview) that (1) they didn't rush the story ending in s5 because they knew they would be renewed (they only rushed production because Netflix ordered the season early to fill a slot in their Fall lineup) and (2) all the "feelings" that the characters had are all still there.

#cobra kai is robby's story #robby keene

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winns-stuff · 2 years

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LO RANT:

This is going to be a small tiny nitpick but I hate that Rachel is ruining the themes she has in her comic. The Daphne and Apollo scene was chilling for everyone involved, the emotion and tension created and the satisfaction of someone else finally seeing Apollo for what he was in the story and adding another support person in Persephone’s small group of friends that know about what happened to her. Everything about it was.. Just insane to read, I don’t know what else to say about it and I’m not sure if it’s be appropriate to call it a powerful moment so I’ll restrain from describing it like that but it was very… I don’t know, I don’t think there’s words that could describe how I felt when that whole thing happened.

But to go from that to Daphne invading Persephone’s privacy so casually about her sex life is absolutely insane to me and I’ll never get over that. I’m so tired of this story shitting and neglecting the SA plot line so much that it doesn’t even seem like Persephone is ever really affected by it unless it’s brought up. It’s just so off and weird to see how jokingly they choose to handle this stuff, there’s nothing wrong with characterizing Persephone as hyper sexual after stuff like that happened because it’s realistic and it happens to many survivors but the way they executed it was distasteful. Why did they have to use those dumb ass faces, having her look so desperate, making her yell out loud like a damn lunatic. They took that fact and created a spectacle and a gag out of it and I’m never going to stop being upset over that. Stuff like this has to be taken seriously, I’m tired of people not respecting topics like these and I’m tired of everyone congratulating and blindly praising media that doesn’t represent the situations with any respect.

Same could be said about Hades’ trauma. He’s supposed to be representation for male abuse victims yet we never get to explore how much it affected him of being in a relationship with Minthe. Literally all of his trauma mainly ties to Kronos, we never see anything else of his abuse. I’m not saying that they should just go in complete detail or anything but they should at least bring it up, explore it, treat it like it’s actually important instead of using it for one or two chapters and then moving on. Then they even made it a damn joke by making Hecate do the exact same thing Minthe did to him, and when that happened he had no physical or mental reaction to that. Nothing brought him back to those moments and there was no sign at all of any traumatic response. It was like it never even happened. I’m tired of it really, men in general always have to act like there’s nothing wrong or that their trauma isn’t as important since they’re men, we don’t need the representation that’s supposed to shed light on things such as these to do the exact same thing. It makes it lose its weight and importance.

Also, the use of trauma in this comic is really horrendous. The fact that they use this extremely harmful method of literally measuring trauma by how “scarred” you are has always irked me. To ignore a characters trauma because you don’t feel he “suffered as much” is damaging. All trauma is important no matter how big or small because you know why? It’s trauma. You don’t just “suffer less” because something that happened to you wasn’t “as big” as others, you still harbor that trauma no matter what. Trauma doesn’t just pick and choose who to affect it affects everyone involved no matter what. It’s tiring seeing this even happen in this story that’s supposed to be centered in the importance of mental health. You can’t say you care about mental health and you advocate for it and then shut down and reward people for not listening to a character because they’re not physically scarred or they didn’t “suffer as much”. There is no “you suffered less”, suffering is still suffering and I don’t get why that was even implied to LO.

Anyways, sorry about this rant. I just had to get this off of my chest cause genuinely I’m really tired of LO getting away with absolutely depleting the importance of serious topics that they choose to put in their comic. All matters such as the themes of LO are important and they don’t deserve to be treated like a joke or an after thought. Now, am I saying that the whole story should just be surrounded by the trauma of the characters? No. All I’m saying is that I’d like to see more effort to keep the tone serious and respectful to those topics to spread awareness and give people who have been effected by them a proper voice and not just misinformation.

#lo critical #anti lore olympus #anti lo

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starsarefire824 · 1 year

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Heyy!! First of all, I'm sorry for the hate you were getting because of your fic.

Speaking of it, I'm planning to start reading it today. I hadn't read it yet because I was a little reluctant because I see Mike and Max almost like brother and sister so for me to see they as romantic is a big change. However, I'm familiar with your writing and I know you can do a really good job with these characters and contextualizing them into the plot. And of course, I'm am already aware of the fact that there is a romantic dynamic between them at some point.

My ask for you is: how would you explain your fic like in general, as if someone asked you "tell me about this fic", not only the first chapter as you would do as a sinopses but the entire fic? without spoilers of course lol

Again, I'm sorry for the hate you were getting for this fic, liking it or not that doesn't give people the write to harass writers.

Hey there!

It's no worries at this point. I am feeling much more positive about everything. I just have this fear of being labeled or like excommunicated from the byler community because I've written something that doesn't agree with everyone. I love byler, but I also, after being in fandomsfor a long time, like to explore some differing dynamics or throw byler into different scenarios and see where they end up! It makes it more fun when there are long lulls of news and the new season is still so far off. And Madwheeler, even platonically, have been so neglected in canon.

That being said, I'm so excited you might entertain reading! Some people who have been into madwheeler in a strictly platonic sense have decided to keep reading and others have not, and that's okay! But also, others who didn't really see the dynamic being for them at all in the beginning, are now the biggest voices in the comments rooting for Max and Mike haha! So I guess it's all very personal, and I guess I would suggest reading up through chapter 6 or 7, which is where things change from strictly platonic in nature to flirting with the line of sexual attraction and see how you feel? I think if you don't like it by that chapter, then it might not be for you, and if you are still enjoying it, then I say go ahead and continue on reading! Also, the story has some major byler and elumax vibes with some Will and Lucas centric chapters, as well some great interactions with Max and El, Luca and Will, and Dustin and the gang.

As far as as general explanation? Here goes nothin' 😅: It starts off with Max and Mike unanimously voted out of The Party , and we are not privy of what has transpired to make that happen until a little later in the story. I won't say what happens specifically because it's a spoiler, but things are sort of revealed on a non-linear time line. I specifically wrote this fic to explore some poly dynamics between the party as well as explore Max and Mike both as bisexual characters who kind of help each other figure out who they are and what they want. I'm using Max and Mike as holding up mirrors for each other and forcing themselves to look. I was also intrigued by a Twin Flame dynamic: A twin flame isn't necessarily a romantic relationship or "the one" — but they will always change your life.

"Your twin flame doesn't even have to be someone you fall in love with (although it often is). This kind of high-level, soul-based connection isn’t about romance. It’s about spiritual growth. You meet them and your life just completely changes. You start seeing the world differently."

And in doing that, in finding each other and forcing each other to face things about themselves that they were trying to ignore, it leads to healing, and they try to help each other heal their relationships with Lucas and El for Max and Will for Mike. Dustin serves as the steady glue holding them all together in their turmoil.

The story is an exploration of sexual repression, specifically regarding Mike, as well as how trauma can have ripple effect on behavior long after it's stopped. Max deals with lost time and how her body has been changed after her coma, and Mike deals with panic disorder.

And in the end, it's really just about an unexpected connection between two people who never wanted to be together in the first place and find that they aren't very different after all. It's got a lot of messy, rash teenager's decisions and the miscommunication/understanding trope is strong. And a lot of the feelings, if not the plot/characters, were based around a personal experience of mine from high school with my best friend.

I hope this helps! And I hope, lol, I've covered most of it.

A link for anyone who's interested.

#anon ask #madwheeler fic #the pact #byler #elumax #stranger things fanfic #thanks for the support #anon

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thisbuildinghasfeelings · 2 years

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I don't mind that they cut the Nancy/Mateo scene either. It was such a heavy and packed episode already, and I like they kept the focus only on Marjan, she deserved it. Also this way there was no rift, however temporary, between them and we got to see a compact team coming together for their friend. It was a good choice.

But a part of me wanted to see that, because it might have been a cute scene with Mateo reassuring her (there was a still somewhere, if I remember right, with them sitting close with him taking her hand and it looked like they were talking).

I wonder if now we're going to ignore this issue ever existed or if we're going to address it at a later episode. I wish the latter because I think it would be a good way to explore their characters and the relationship between them further. Like, Nancy isn't an asshole, she probably comes from a place of self-doubt and maybe even some past trauma, and I'm so curious about it. Mateo too probably has some trauma too. But they do need a dedicated episode which isn't just a few throwaway lines but a proper plot line, we barely had any Nanteo yet this season.

I wonder if and how much Nancy will be involved in Double Trouble with Marvin thrown in the mix too.

I was a bit surprised that it was cut because they clearly left in all the build up to that scene. There were multiple instances of Mateo being extra upset about Marjan and then shots of the look on Nancy's face that were clearly intended to culminate in the waiting room scene we all speculated about for so long. The fact that they left in the build up definitely makes me wonder whether it will come up in a later episode.

I don't blame Nancy at all for feeling insecure. It's a pretty normal feeling to have and I think you're probably right about trauma potentially being part of it. Or if not something as serious as trauma, at least some past bad experiences. I am happy that they didn't have Nancy bring it up at the hospital, though. Even though it's something I can understand her feeling, and something she should absolutely talk to Mateo about, the hospital while waiting for Marjan to come out of surgery was not the time or the place for that conversation! Everyone was so upset and worried about Marjan that it would have just seemed insensitive and made Nancy look bad.

You're also right that we've barely had any Nanteo yet this season. Really just a couple lines and them being cute with each other. I feel pretty sure that there must be a Nanteo storyline with more substance coming. It's possible it may come from Nancy's insecurities. I think it's almost equally possible that they just decided to not go there and we won't ever hear about it again. I would ultimately be ok with that, especially if we get some other Nanteo storyline. There may be a possibility with Double Trouble. The synopsis says that Mateo "comes to regret" helping Marvin. Maybe something bad happens in his relationship with Nancy as a result of helping Marvin?

#answered ask #lone star speculation

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seisho99 · 4 years

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wow what a great day to not infantilize mattie wheeler and acknowledge the fact that she's like. a capable human being

#yo wattblr its been a while anyways!! i continue to have too many feelings about fictional characters #anyways HALF OF THE TIME i see posts about mattie theyre all about how shes and innocent baby who can do no wrong and like GOD.#it irritates me. so much for some reason.#i know we don't see much of her character throughout the show but maybe!! dont diminish her character into being like. a third grader #she is literally the same age as half of you!! it just.hfjfjdkdjdjdjd idk how to explain this.#dont take this as me saying shes a bad person shes legit my favorite character but like.#everyone explores the other characters and their trauma so much and yet ignores the fact that she literally got framed for murder #so you can have your uwu perfect innocent child character #woo the Disk Horse #time to disappear from the tag for another two months adieu <3 #mattie wheeler #we are the tigers #oracles

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canonspyglass · 3 years

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Therapist: how are you today?

Me : the “zukka is superior than zutara”argument (like all shippy arguments) is so fundamentally flawed because it’s fixated on a “would be” dynamic. As in, if those ships had happened, zutara “would be” too traumatic, emotionally toxic, anger-enabling dynamic; whereas zukka “would be” a happy, balanced, supportive dynamic. Then they’d provide evidences limited to canonical characteristics and moments, which is where it can get messy because both these elements are the most susceptible to change in a narrative like atla, a narrative that promotes change to its characters, characters who are highly conflict-involved teenagers. And unlike Maiko who had a romantic shippy story in canon, which provides substantial basis for a romantic projection, zukka and zutara never had one. This means their argument is not substantial. And fundamentally, their “would be” is a headcanon… (do people not realize that?). The worst part is the fact that their evidence is limited to select excerpts of a much much bigger whole; parts of 1-2 episodes out of 61. Their Zukka’s “would be” is only explored in the Boiling Rock episode, which shows zukka’s best foot forward, light-hearted and adventurous, a very fresh buddy-bro relationship that has not yet matured or challenged with each other’s intimate ugliest sides. Their Zutara’s “would be” is solely anchored in The Southern Raiders episode; the episode where two very personal ex-enemies are redefining their relationships; the episode they faced Katara’s dark past and intimate trauma; the only episode they could be perceived to have enabled each other’s rage and emotion-driven decision-making as non-enemies. Funnily as always, those arguments ignore many other truths in zutara’s canon. Like, the fact that they are the most deeply evolved dynamic out of literally everyone: going from captured--captor, to rival enemies, to empathetic acquaintances, to betrayed--betrayer, to difficult allies, to teammates in temporary truce, to comfortable friends, to harmonious comrades, to partners who have unconditional trust and saved each other’s lives. Zutara is a dynamic canonically proven to triumph many evolutions and come out even more wholesome and better. Then it “would be” most canonically and thematically faithful to portray Zutara as ultimately wholesome, always, in whatever situation they faced, in whatever dynamic they will be — after all, dynamics are susceptible to change but themes ground consistency. Whereas for Zukka, so much is still in the open space, so much is still new and unchallenged, but one thing very profound in their atla relationship is their great teamwork bromance. That is their sole substantial “would be” and the one canon framed to CHERISH.

Therapist : mm hmm… and how are you feeling?

inspired by this post and this post. I respect each their arguments and preferences :)

#debunks #defending zutara #zutara #zutara meta #anti zukka #atla discourse

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ogratman · 3 years

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That is a long read btw, put your seatbelts on.

I feel like what Encanto is doing amazingly (at least from my perspective) is that it allows the viewers to somehow experience so many emotions, even these that you actually never personally experienced. I’m feeling all these shrimp emotions and they break me apart. Maybe that is what is the most compelling about this movie and why I surprised myself and clung to it so strongly. The overlapping, simultaneously heartbreaking as they are heartwarming themes, the fact that it is an extremely accurate depiction of life, that it’s representational not only culturally but also universally.

Now, let me be clear on that before any accusations of “white person who doesn’t understand that this movie is a representation of Latino community”. I do, but that’s the whole point; its speaking about generational trauma, about being forced to flee your home because of war, it speak about tight extended family and expectations that immigrant family members might imprint on their children. And its amazing to watch honestly, there is more than enough movies about white people; I love that Disney created something that is so tightly representational for other cultures. Something that kids could look up to and see themselves in it; that should be the norm.

But there are other things that make this movie so greatly universal, that even if not for representation, people can feel a deep connection with this movie. It’s the family dynamics and your deeply rooted placement as a member of that family. It’s the pressure to always be able to carry everything, about being a model child that you are expected to be. But its also the pressure of being different, being “difficult” or a burden on people who you love, which makes you feel like you are the one to blame, because there must be something wrong with you if they consider you a “black sheep”. It’s about how trauma travels from person to person, and spreads like a virus, to the point when it starts breaking the family from inside out. Casita’s walls breaking was a great physical representation of how mistreatment that is ignored for too long, and denial and lack of communication destroys the unit that is supposed be held together. They were all just simply playing the roles that they were assigned to play, they were less individuals as they were a material, sentient holder for their gifts. Nobody was talking honestly to each other, everyone did everything in their power to hold the family image together to the point when both publicly, but also privately nobody was able to fully be themselves. If you are strong you can’t relax, if you are perfect you are not not able to get messy and explore yourself. Pepa wasn’t even able to fully experience the scope of her emotions, because her gift affected the weather, because it was so glaringly obvious what she felt at any given moment. This is the family when one family member was so deeply shunned and vilified, that he decided that the best thing for the family would be to just simply remove themselves. And then he was made into a children horror story and a bad omen (you can see here that my feelings for Bruno, in particular, are intense and mighty, I will defend him with my life).

Another thing that I find somehow impressive is that all these characters, regardless of their flaws, are so complex and so amazingly human, that it makes them all too likeable. Like, look how many characters are in this movie, majority of them gets scrapes of screen time and yet… and yet somehow it’s so easy to see who they are as people, what their personalities are. To be honest, that might also be the case of me imagining things and just involuntarily adding to the story or reading too much into it (i’m not fully sure if that’s not the case). But nevertheless. I disliked Isabella at the beginning, but as the movie progressed it showed that maybe a lot of her behaviour was completely understandable. Same with Abuela. Like, the ways they went about it was obviously bad and it’s not an excuse to treat others the way they did in certain situations (Isabella being a bit more of a next step of a chain reaction stemming from Alma), but God does it makes so much sense. The pressure, the trauma and need to protect something to the point when you lose the focus on what was the point of protecting to begin with. Almost every single person in this family makes so much sense overall, both for storytelling purposes but also for relatability.

God, I could probably write a Dissertation about this movie alone if I tried hard enough and used some psychology major family department tricks (and here I am trying to convince people that I don’t actually constantly psychoanalyse things).

#i have so many feelings for this movie #still can’t gather how i allowed myself to be thrown into this by disney movie #but somehow thats what happened #maybe that’s why this movie ranks so high for me for so many reasons #its both warm and tragic and they envelope so nicely #yeah thats me experiencing full scope of hurt/comfort feels #angst and comfort my favourite feels #bruno madrigal #encanto #mirabel madrigal #isabela madrigal #luisa madrigal #pepa madrigal #encanto meta #abuela madrigal

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rachelbethhines · 3 years

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Tangled Salt Marathon - Be Very Afraid

This is the best story arc episode in season three and arguably the best written episode since The Great Tree, but it’s still season three so there are still issues with it.

Summary: When Zhan Tiri tells Cassandra she must destroy Rapunzel in order to wield the Moonstone's true power, Cassandra discovers that she can create, with fear, red rock spikes that cause fear and freeze their victims. Varian discovers the red rocks and teams up with Rapunzel to use his amber solution on them. Meanwhile, Eugene and Lance decide to throw a talent show to distract everyone from their fears.

Why Can’t Cassandra Control The Rocks?

The series never gives an actual explanation for this. She could control them just fine in Rapunzel’s Return, so what’s changed?

There is No Destiny!

There’s no prophecy, no oracle, no grand design nor master of fate to fight back against; the characters literally have no reason to do what they do. If you want destiny to be a goal then you have to establish what that destiny is first.

What does Cassandra want? How does this connect back to Gothel, Rapunzel, and the Moonstone? Why she just failing about like an idiot here? Did she not have a plan when she threw her life away for this stupid rock?

And of course Zhan Tiri is lying here, but why should Cassandra believe her? What does she gain by listening to a creepy ghost girl? This ‘destiny’ has not been established, so therefore there’s no hook nor bait for Zhan Tiri to trap her with.

Leading directly into “you should kill your bestie’ should logically put Cassandra off of Zhan Tiri’s advice for good because Zhan Tiri isn’t actually offering anything. Temptation requires the person to be, you know, tempted by what they want, but Cassandra doesn’t know what she wants so none of this makes sense.

The writing is desperately trying to make Cass sympathetic here, but all it winds up doing is making her look like a moron instead.

This Isn’t Consistent

Not only does this fail to explain why Cass could control the rocks previously but no longer can, but it’s also contradicted just a couple of episodes later with the incantation bullshit.

You need an established magic system in place in order for the character’s actions to make sense show!

This Ultimately Goes Nowhere

Ignoring how Varian should have been in season two and how translating the scroll should have led to freeing his father, which we’ve talked about previously; this subplot should have had more impact on the narrative than it actually did. Yes, Varian’s translation winds up driving the plot of Cassandra’s Revenge, but 90% of that episode winds up being utterly pointless, including the incantations themselves, so....

I Like This Sequence; Shame It Winds Up Being Undermined Later

Unlike the majority of dream sequences in this show, this nightmare has an actual point. It more firmly establishes Varian’s fears and gives the audience some insight into what happened to him back in season one. Something we were sorely lacking. It also becomes the core conflict and drive of Varian’s character development through out the episode.

Only for the episode to ignore Varian’s real issues and fail to adequately address anything. By series end this plot point will be completely forgotten. The show acts like bringing it up once and then never acknowledging it ever again just magically revolves Varian’s character arc. It doesn’t.

So How Come Quirin Isn’t Affected By the Rocks?

He’s right there next to them and he shows no reaction to them at all. You’re telling me the man who lost his home twice to these things, almost died to them, and nearly lost his only child because of them, is just not going to respond to new creepy red ones popping up?

Quirin would have a treasure trove of trauma to explore in his own right, that undoubtedly would connect back to Varian’s own issues, but we’re just going to ignore it and have Quirin off screen for the majority of the episode?

Are These New Character Models?

Are you shitting me!?

They built five new models just for a short two minute scene, one where none of the new characters are named nor given lines, only to never appear ever again!

What the fuck? Why did you waste time and money on this? What happened to all of the other background characters you already built? Did a bunch of season one models just get lost or deleted or something?

Also why are they all wearing green? Is it St. Paddy’s Day?

This Plot Point Wasn’t Established Enough Beforehand

Look, I’ll buy that there are people in Corona who still blame Varian for what happened in season one and for the Sapoiran take over. I mean they’re only getting half the story and were directly effected by his actions whether or not he intended harm to them. But we needed to see more of it beyond just this one scene.

No one was bullying him in Lost Treasure or The King and Queen of Hearts, so for all purposes he appeared to be integrated back into society, and now you’re telling me he’s not and that Rapunzel risked his well being by forcing him to interact with people who were hostile to him back in Lost Treasure?

And yeah you can’t really move Lost Treasure back any further than it already is cause that’d leave a giant hole in the wall of the throne room for over a year. Which also makes no sense either.

Or hey, maybe it’s just Feldspar being an asshole. In which case why should Varian or the audience care?

Eugene is Wasted

Look I understand that there’s only twenty five minutes to tell this story and that Eugene isn’t the focus of the episode. I also understand that the B-plot is meant to be comedic in order to relive tension from the A plot, but this wasn’t the best way to go about it.

The B plot swings too far wide in the other direction that it dilutes the tension too much. The A plot now has to work over time to keep the urgency going. I could understand it, if the show wanted start off with small fears first, but it needed to ramp up the drama as it got closer to the climax, not under cut it.

We never see Eugene freak out over anything other this this cowlick. In fact we never see him scared of anything else beyond this one scene, which undermines Rapunzel’s arc this episode as she’s suppose to be the only one bottling things in. What makes Eugene so special that he can keep a lid on it with out consequences, or are you telling me that a dumb cowlick is his only fear?

Either answer is stupid.

I Hope You Have Copies of the Map

You went through all that trouble to steal the journal for this very reason and now here you are prancing around without it like it’s not that big of deal. Way to undermined past story arcs.

It’s like the writers know that season one was their most successful season, and therefore try to make callbacks to it whenever they can, to make up for ignoring it in season two completely, but they still don’t want to actually acknowledge anything that happened during that season so they just refer to it in the laziest way possible, rendering the previous events pointless.

So Close and Yet So Far

I’m mainly posting this whole conversation so that you dear readers will have context for what I talk about next.

For you see, this scene starts out okay and it looks like we’re finally going to address the elephant in the room regarding Rapunzel’s involvement in Varian’s past trauma, only for the scene to immediately side step the issue all together and not resolve the conflict at all.

No! Don’t Interrupt; Listen!

Or at least go all the way and accept some of the blame yourself.

It may look like Rapunzel is comforting Varian here on a superficial level, but without her verballing acknowledging what she did wrong, this action just winds up taking the focus off of Varian and what he needs and places it upon Rapunzel, both narratively and physically.

So what happens is that, in universe, it comes across like she’s just consoling Varian for her own personal comfort rather than genuinely trying to help.

Why Would Varian Ever Think This?

Okay, first off this has nothing to do with what Varian was talking about previously. Why would he jump from discussing his trauma to praising Rapunzel? You know the woman who is responsible for said trauma?

Secondly, this switches the focus of the conflict off of Varian’s specific trauma and makes it about a generic “over coming fear” lesson mixed with an out of place validation issue. Which is not what’s actually needed for his character development; nor for Rapunzel’s for that matter.

Third, being the sundrop has nothing to do with Rapunzel as a person. Her being born with magical powers was an accident of fate, same as her being royalty. She’s not innately better than anybody else because of this and nobody has any narrative reason to assume otherwise. Especially since her powers are utterly disconnected from her actual personality, choices, and actions. All three of which have become unbearably unpleasant by the last season.

Finally, Varian, of all people should be the last person on earth to ever think so highly of Rapunzel. Them being friends again is already pushing believability. Him suddenly kissing her ass the same as everyone else this season is just flat out bad writing.

Varian knows better than anybody what an awful person Rapunzel is. He’s seen her at her worse. He’s seen her not live up to her hypocritical ideals. He knows the larger problems that steam from placing people in power on pedestals. As her former victim, Varian by all accounts should be the one person who can bring Rapunzel down to earth and poke holes into her ego, even while still being her friend. Especially while still being her friend. She needs that! Writing Varian as another blind Rapunzel stan is not only writing him out of character, but it also damages Rapunzel’s own development.

Also Varian hates magic. Why would he now worship someone just for having magic?

THIS AIN’T ABOUT YOU BITCH!!!

I literally yelled that at my tv screen when I first saw this scene. Those were my exact words upon the episode’s first airing. And believe it or not, I’m not one to usually scream obscenities at inanimate objects.

I understand what the writers were trying to accomplish here. They wanted Rapunzel to ease the tension by saying something funny and to make Varian laugh to distract him from his woes; thereby defusing the situation. But it doesn’t work because of season three’s tendency to make Rapunzel the most egotistical, smug, self-centered, abusive, self-righteous twat in the show.

It really boggles the mind just how unaware the writing is. Like, surely no one makes their protagonist this unlikable on accident. Clearly they meant for Rapunzel to be an ass on purpose right? They wanted Cass to have a reason to hate her so they decided to make her insufferable to the viewer in a misguided attempt to make Cass more sympathetic? Right?

Then where is the bloody comeuppance?

I genuinely thought this was all going to lead somewhere. That Rapunzel was going to learn to be a better person and I would have been fine by that. I would have applauded the show if they had turned her into an asshole intentionally so that they could teach a mature and nuanced lesson about morality.

But they didn’t, and here I am; still shaking my head in confusion over a year later.

Seriously what the fuck happened behind the scenes to cause this? How can processionals paid by the largest animation company in the world be so incompetent?

Having Trauma is Not the Same Thing as Having a Phobia

This is where Varian’s arc falls apart. Not only does the episode fail to have Rapunzel acknowledge her past wrongs for a second time, but it also completely mishandles Varian’s trauma because it equates it to being an irrational fear. One that can be overcome through pure force of will at that, same as Lance and everyone else’s fears in the episode.

Ok first off Varian’s fear isn’t irrational. He even just said so at the start of the conversation. Varian’s trauma is very real, it’s not a hypothetical unlike clown-spiders and cowlicks. Also has been given very little reassurance that it won't happen again. Varian has no reason to trust Rapunzel or anybody else in the show. They never owned up to abandoning him previously, and both he and the audience have little reason to believe that Rapunzel wouldn’t just neglect him again if it was convenient for her.

Secondly one does not simply ‘overcome’ trauma. Oh you can deal with trauma, you can manage it and learn to live with it. But it never goes away. It doesn’t magically disappear just because you ‘faced it’.

In fact confronting it head on is actually the opposite of what your suppose to do when going through something traumatic. Studies have shown that distracting your mind after a car crash or what have you actually helps with PTSD later on. And ‘dealing with it” doesn’t mean ignoring the problem out right, but rather learning how to function despite the pain.

But as the show acts like Varian’s trauma never even existed after this episode.

This Doesn’t Resolve Anything!

What does “being special” have to with fear? How does this help Varian with his trauma? Empty validation has nothing to with what we were just discussing.

Everyone gets afraid. Everyone has trauma of some sort. Are you telling me that my need for therapy some 20 years after being physically assaulted is just because I’m not special enough? Fuck you show!

Moreover, this doesn’t resolve the story arc from season one. Varian and Rapunzel’s conflict with each other has nothing to do with self esteem. It was about personal responsibility, conflicting needs, and abuse. Yes, self image and acceptance was a small factor in their motivations, but it was never the driving goal behind their decisions.

This is yet another broken narrative promise to the audience. There’s no closure to be had from this and leaves the viewer wanting, if not outright frustrated.

In order to justify this exchange fans have to ‘read between the lines’ and make shit up in order for any of this to make any sense. People who still defend season three do by doing all the heavy lifting that writers themselves should be doing.

If it’s not on screen, it doesn’t count.

If Rapunzel never apologizes on screen, then she never apologized. If Rapunzel never checked up on Varian on screen, then she neglected him outright. If Rapunzel never acknowledges her wrong doings on screen, then she’s never learned anything. The characters pretending like she has doesn’t make it so.

Why Does Cassandra Even Want a Destiny?

Yes, Zhan Tiri is lying, there is no destiny, but Zhan Tiri being a liar doesn’t absolve Cassandra of her own actions.

Cassandra herself believes in destiny and is looking for her’s, but why?

Why does she want a destiny? What is this destiny she’s after? Why does she believe such a thing exists? What does she believe it’ll gain her? Why is she willing to risk so much for such a vague goal? What does any of this have to do with the moonstone or her mother? How does this destiny connect back with her personal feud with Rapunzel?

It’s all disjointed and confused. Nothing lines up. It’s like the writers just had this dart board full of ideas for Cassandra’s villain arc, but couldn’t decide on which one to go with, so they just threw darts randomly each episode and went with whatever stuck for any given scene.

“Oh she want’s revenge for her mother during this scene, or wait no, she’s actually looking for destiny this episode?” “What destiny?” “Who knows. Now for this scene we need her to be sad because reasons...” “What reason?” “I don't care, make something up... Uuuuh, she’s sad cause she’s not a royal guard still” “But she became a guard during season one.” “Ignore that. Kids won’t remember. Now she needs to be angry and threating here” “Why?” “Because it’ll look cool.” “But why is she angry?” “Cause it looks cool Bob! Geez! Oh but she still needs to be sympathetic so give her a frowny face afterwards. Just have Zhan Tiri remind her how much she hates Rapunzel later, so as to egg her on and keep her doing stupid shit?” “But why does she hate Rapunzel?” “Do I have to think of everything BOB!!!???”

There, there’s my non-so-accurate behind the scene’s glimpse into the Tangled writer’s room when discussing Cassandra’s arc. I could be wrong. There could have been some intricate and complex plan thought out that just didn’t make it onto the screen for whatever reason, or maybe everyone involved was so far up their own ass that they just forgot to give their main villain an actual reason for being the villain. But regardless the over all effect is that Cassandra is handed the idiot ball for a whole freaken season in order to even have a conflict and that is never good writing; or rather she’s hit in the head with it repeatedly.

This Actually Goes Against Zhan Tiri’s Plan

Zhan Tiri’s short term goal is to be released from her dimensional prison and apparently she needs Cass and Raps to fight into order to do this. This was never established before hand and goes against her disciples pervious plans, but whatever. One could argue that this is just a lie in order to get them to fight later...

However, this lie jeopardizes her long term goal. She eventually wants to wield both the moonstone and the sundrop herself in order to destroy Corona, but Rapunzel is the sundrop and you can only take her power during an ellipse, supposedly, which means if Cass actually succeeds in killing Rapunzel before then, then Zhan Tiri is up a creek without a paddle. Also if Cassandra did manage to steal Raps’ power with or without an ellipse then Zhan Tiri would still be out of luck.

This was wholly unnecessary; you didn’t have to go from zero to sixty in one fell swoop. Have Zhan Tiri claim that fighting Rapunzel will award the power to the winner or something. There’s no need to bring up the ‘kill her’ option. That should logically just drive Cassandra away and puts Zhan Tiri’s plan at risk.

The series wants to act like Zhan Tiri is this master manipulator, a chess master like Zantos or Palpatine, but she couldn’t even tie their shoes. Her plans make no sense and often contradict one another. They only work because the rest of the cast are reduced to imbeciles in order for them to work.

This Plot Point Contradicts Season Two

His fear of spiders was establish early on, and I’ll accept the clown thing as there’s nothing to contradict it, but Lance has preformed numerous times before now and has never show stage fright. He’s a huge ham and back in Return of Quaid he mentioned how much loved acting and preforming and apparently been on stage before, so where does this fear of singing in public come from? Heck he sung in public just a few episodes ago in Rapunzel’s Return.

If you have to sacrifice established character into order to make your plot work then you need a new plot.

This Song is Nice; It Just Needed to Be in a Different Episode

I’m glad Lance got a solo. He deserved one and the song is good. However it breaks the tension of the climax and gives the episode tonal whiplash.

More than a song, Lance needed an actual focus episode in season three. One that was fully his. If anyone else shared it with him it needed to be Red and Angry, not Varian and Cass.

Just imagine if this song came during an episode where he had to watch the girls. Imagine if he was singing it just for them. How much more impactful would that have been?

Now imagine that we had a Rapunzel and Varian duet in it’s place here. That would have tied the episode together better and helped to further their own stories. Glenn Slater can write lyrics far better than Chris can write dialogue. I bet you a thousand to one Tangled the Series would have solved like half of it’s problems had Menken and Slater been allowed write and actual apology duet between Raps and Varian.

Such a duet was proposed during Rapunzel’s Return but it could have worked here too, and you could have placed Lance’s solo in Day of the Animals or something, just leave Rapunzel out of that episode all together.

Nothing honestly needed to be cut music wise, yet for some reason season three has less songs than the other seasons, even when counting the reprises, and they’re mostly shorter too.

That’s mismanagement right there. Plain and simple. Someone at the top didn’t know how to balance the budget or resources and didn’t know where to the throw the money at.

You Have a 70 Foot Shield Made of Magic Hair, Rapunzel

You couldn’t think to just block those rocks instead?

Giving your protagonist a big hero moment doesn’t work if they placed the person the have to save in jeopardy to begin with show.

I Do Not Care About Rapunzel Right Now, Show

Yes, she’s the main character. Yes, her feud with Cass is the main conflict of the season and kicked off the episode. That does not mean that I automatically care about her personal feelings at this moment in time.

Rapunzel has kept such a tight lid on her real feelings for the whole episode that this just comes out of nowhere. I was never waiting with baited breath for her to confess her deep dark secrets or whatever.

It’s not even an interesting reveal. It’s just “Oh, see Rapunzel’s human too. She’s gets scared just like everybody else.”. I already fucking knew that, thanks. And what she’s afraid of isn’t even that compelling either; it’s a just a rip off of the prophecy dreams she had back in season one. The same ones that had no explanation and never furthered the story, so why should I care about this one?

You have to earn the audience’s investment in your conflict. The character’s likability, as little as that may be currently, will only carry you so far, you have to establish shit first.

Varian’s conflict has been the focus of the entire episode so far, and it’s a conflict that was set all the way back in season one, so of course that is what I’m invested in seeing get resolved. Rapunzel is once again just butting in and making it all about her when it’s not actually her story.

And if you wanted it to be her story then you should have made her the actual focus to begin with and had her learn something by the end of it.

This is Poor Choice of Words, Writers

I could be generous here and pass this off as Rapunzel not fully believing in this prophecy. After all Corona’s destruction is still a hypothetical at this point and Cassandra really has left already. Since the episode is about fear, Rapunzel is of course more afraid of losing Cassandra’s friendship as it’s real tangible possibility.

More than a possibility even, Rapunzel’s been dumped. Season three is a classic break up story, right down to the poor plotting and tunnel vision, hence why it’s so gay baity.

However, this reading only carries so far. For starters this is Rapunzel’s what, fourth prophecy dream so far? Haven’t the past three already came true, so why would she think this one wouldn’t?

Secondly, all that good grace goes right out the window once it becomes clear that, yes, Cassandra is indeed a threat; a threat that Rapunzel refuses to take seriously because she cares more about her own personal validation than her kingdom.

Even as Cassandra does succeed in destroying Corona, and no doubt harms other people while at it, Rapunzel still is obsessed with ‘winning Cassandra back’. Oh and make no mistake, this is not because she actually cares about Cassandra as a person and her needs or feelings. Nope. Rapunzel just doesn’t like being dumped.

Why Does Varian Need to Shove His Feelings Aside for Rapunzel’s Bullshit?

Rapunzel’s ‘confession’ has fuck all to do with Varian’s current issues. They do not connect in any way.

Varian is dealing with real trauma, trauma that she helped cause, while Rapunzel is only dealing with a hypothetical prophecy and one very shallow, self-centered fear. There’s nothing to relate to here. Neither for Varian himself nor the audience.

Yet for some undefined reason this is what gets Varian to ignore his PTSD flashbacks? What?

This is once again break the narrative promise. I was promised closure for Varian’s story arc and instead of that the writers just brush it up under the rug.

From the outside looking in this doesn’t come across as Varian ‘overcoming’ his ‘fear’. It looks like an abuse victim using learned helplessness to placate his abusers.

And yes, for the last time Rapunzel is Varian’s abuser.

NEGLECT IS ABUSE!!!

And and even though he is no longer her ‘responsibility’, she is still neglecting him emotionally as his supposed friend.

Varian’s and Cassandra’s Stories Undermined Each Other’s

Varian stopped the rocks. Rapunzel had nothing to do with it. Zhan Tiri blaming Rapunzel for it steals agency away from both her and Cassandra.

However, if Rapunzel had used the hurt incantation to stop the rocks and Cassandra had felt it rom the other side, then you’d have something to back up Zhan Tiri’s claim and an actual point of real conflict to carry the rest of the season. Not to mention an actual tangible goal for Cassandra to work towards, survival.

Cassandra’s conflict with Rapunzel not only prevents the resolution to Varian’s arc from being satisfying, but Varian fulfilling his arc in turn winds up cutting off Cass’s story at the knees.

It didn’t have to be this way. Varian’s and Cassandra’s arcs should have complimented each other, but instead the creator decided to make them complete for screen time and relevance.

It is such an gratingly stupid and petty decision that winds up being a disservice for all the characters involved.

Cassandra’s motivation and goal should have been revealed back in season two. Varian should have been the sole focus of Rapunzel’s Return and gotten his big hero moment there along; with an actual ending to his conflict with Rapunzel that didn’t feel so lopsided and half assed. Then Rapunzel and Cassandra could have both been held accountable for their conflict in season three, instead of pretending like their shit smelled of roses the whole damn time.

Lance Got a Whole Crowd Cheering Him On For Singing a Song, Varian Just Gets One Asshole Giving Him a Single Line of Congratulations

Did I mention this show has an odd anti-Varian bias? Cause it does. For whatever reasons his own creators hate him and that’s just utterly baffling to me. Like why create a main character that you don’t like?

I look down on professional writers who treat characters they didn’t create poorly within their works, like with James Gunn and Scrappy Doo in the Scooby Doo Movie, Adric in the Doctor Who spin offs, or even the treatment of Doofus in Ducktales 2017. I don't care how much a character is liked or disliked by fandom, that shit is just tasteless and often unfunny. But at least I understand where they are coming from when they do it.

But I’ll never understand what compels a writer to sabotage their own work; one that they are getting paid to write no less. Especially when said character is super popular with their fans. And Chris knows this. He knows the ratings plummeted without Varian in season two. He knows the merch didn’t sell because there wasn’t enough Varian products. That’s why he hyped up Varian’s return a whole week before Season Three’s airing with a massive online campaign, but he wasn’t smart enough to treat the character decently afterwards?

I mean congrats, you convinced a just enough viewers to come back to season three to keep the show on the air I guess, but you left them all pissed off and have nothing to show for it to the higher ups a Disney.

And Chris wonders why he wasn’t asked back to work on new Disney princesses shows that are currently in the works.

That is Not Quirin. That is a Plank of Wood Pretending to be Quirin.

*Beep* *Boop*...*Dad Bot Is Proud. exe*

Quirin is such a pale shadow of his season one self that he might as well not exist. I genuinely don't know why the writers released from the amber so early if they weren’t actually going to use him until the season finale.

For the longest time I honestly thought that Rapunzel sucked out his soul with that decay incantation; what with that lyric about “setting the spirit free”. I genuinely thought that would be a later plot point, but nope, it’s just bad writing

Him just saying hi to son once and smiling blankly isn’t compelling and it’s isn’t fulfilling. It doesn’t actually resolve his arc. I mean he’s at least shown spending time with his son, but that’s not enough. We need to see him acknowledge past, we need to see him acknowledge his own flaws, and we need to see him being more attentive when Varian is in need. .

Season one Quirin would be trying to stop Varian from going near the red rocks, a post season one Quirin should logically go after his son to make sure he’s alright, even if he’s know longer trying to actively stop Varian like he once did.

There’s also that damn note and it’s secrets!

You know what? That’s it. That’s the problem. The focus is all wrong in season three. Episodes get pulled into to many directions trying to juggle too many characters rather than dedicating the needed time to each individual arc.

Season two’s finale should have been a three parter with Cass’s full motivation and goal laid bare before leaving.

Rapunzel’s Return should have been solely about Rapunzel and Varian’s conflict and resolving that arc fully

Either Who’s Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf or Day of the Animals should have been a Lance episode about him and the girl’s, no Rapunzel.

And this episode should have been about Quirin and Varian resolving their issues, with the Rapunzel and Cass stuff as the B plot not the stupid talent show

There, all fixed. You don't even have to cut much, just rework the focus and leave Rapunzel and Cassandra out of conflicts they have no business being in.

This Does Not Excuse Rapunzel’s Later Negligence Regarding Cassandra

Just because the red rocks was an accident doesn’t mean Cassandra should get a free pass for all the awful things she does later. Rapunzel uses this one interaction to excuse everything else Cassandra does in season three, as if she was just some poor lost baby and not a grown ass woman out to kill them.

In fact Cass showing hesitancy here actually makes her later actions even worse. This means that she fully acknowledges that what she’s about to do is wrong, but goes ahead and does anyway, even gleefully so at times. Then she has to gall to act baffled when people see her as a threat? 0.o

When fans say Cass isn’t redeemable or shouldn’t be redeemed, it’s not because he actions are so much worse than everybody else’s (even though they are), It’s because she doesn’t act like she wants to be redeemed half the time. The show doesn’t properly set up her ‘redemption’, instead it just lazily has Rapunzel yell at us how she’s ‘not lost’.

Like below for instance.

What Does Cass Need Saving From?

Cassandra is not in danger. She is the danger.

She made the conscious decision to leave taking a world endangering artifact with her, and she later makes the conscious decision to come back and be an asshole for no adequately defined reason.

She’s never shown to be in any physical danger from the rocks, the moonstone, or even Zhan Tiri herself. She apparently can take care of herself in the wild for over a year. She also has the capability of getting a job else where and just living out her life if she wanted to. Nothing is forcing her to listen to Zhan Tiri.

Heck, even her hurt arm, the one thing Rapunzel is responsible for and could potentially be a continued threat to Cass’s well being, is just completely forgotten about.

And no, mental illness and past trauma are not excuses as well. In fact it’s rather insulting to both people with mental heath problems and abusive survivors to suggest otherwise. We don't need ‘saving from ourselves’ and we aren’t automatically dangers to anybody. Nor do we get free passes if we hurt someone. A jerk who happens to have a mental illness is just a jerk who so happens to have a mental illness; coloration is not causation.

Conclusion

It’s better than Rapunzel’s Return, but this episode was still a disappointment. A small part of me whishes this was a two parter because it has so much untapped potential, but I know it’s just be wasted in Chris’s hands.

Anyways, I consider this to be the true mid-season finale of S3. Not only did the hiatus kick in after this episode, but it also clearly divides the season between the first half filler and the later Cass conflict. As such the next entry will be the mid-season recap. See ya, then.

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orionshounds · 3 years

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I’ve been knee deep in dsmp lore streams and I just want to ramble about it

Dream smp lore is so good, it’s so good!!! Not only is the story itself just fascinating, but how it’s presented so uniquely through the medium of minecraft of all things is just so cool. One of my favorite parts of the lore is seeing how everyone on the smp has their own “style” they present it in, and watching them find the way they find the most enjoyment in is so cool. Literally no two streamer’s lore stream quite like each others and it’s just incredible! It just speaks to the flexibility of roleplay as an artistic medium and really shows everyone’s individual personalities.

Wilbur was dramatic as hell and wrote eloquent speeches. He started a drug operation under the guise as a country, and it lead to a revolution in which he was able to explore the spiral of a man who loses control of everything he had built. And after his arc and he wanted a break from the server? He created ghostbur, an amnesic comic relief with just enough touch of tragedy that he is still able to make heartbreaking monologues when he wants to.

Tommy is able to run around with his friends and cause as much chaos to his heart’s extent, but there is so much more than meets the eye. He is incredibly social and isn’t afraid to start conflict with a lot of people, bringing them into the roleplay. He doesn’t back down from storytelling either. His character goes through terrible situations and he fully explores the trauma that comes from those experiences. His character goes against the “stereotypical” trauma I see alot in media; instead of being shy or scared he’s reactionary, he’s angry, he’s violent, he’s depressed. I’m actually really impressed with the heavy subject matter this 17 year old teen has managed to portray (I’ve connected with it quite personally at certain points), while still being able to keep the light hearted fun that’s so intrinsic to his personality.

Tubbo isn’t really interested in serious lore as much. Even in dire moments he tells jokes and just has fun. So, in his recent lore, he just streams as normal while putting mysterious writing on screen that he doesn’t acknowledge or have to explain, which I think is just a genius work around for him to participate in lore. He still has his dedicated lore streams sometimes, and when he is in the acting zone he has some of the most powerful moments out of everyone on the server.

Ranboo, while having stake in the greater smp lore, is much more character focused. He presents his lore through long monologues and fucking heart-wrenching voice acting. He loves working in themes of horror and causing a specific feeling in the viewer. So he chooses specific music as a themes for events/characters and creates visual queues in his overlays to draw out that desired reaction. He also values improve a LOT, if something unexpected comes up he just runs with it and he has made huge changes to his lore as early as 30 min before a stream.

Technoblade, while arguably one of the most powerful people on the server, prefers a more light-hearted yet dramatic approach to lore. When Dream was at his house looking for Tommy, Techno had no problem joking around and making fun of him for being homeless. He tore down an entire nation on the server and had so much fun doing it! He’s more of an antagonist than a true villain in my opinion. And lets not forget how dedicated he is to the game, he’s cracked at the craft. He spends hours grinding and creating farms on the smp, for amazing pay offs (his several vault reveals, the withers, etc), most of which weren’t even on stream!

Karl Jacobs is extremely social, so he created Tales from the smp as a way to involve TONS of people in lore while exploring the past and future of the server (it was also a way for viewers who weren’t that well versed in dsmp lore to join and not have to worry about it!). And through this premise, he took the opportunity to develop his own character on the smp; making an incredibly tragic story of a time traveler trying to save his home while slowly loosing his memories. Not to mention the beautifully shot cutscenes of the Inbetween and the Other Side. He includes so many people behind the scenes as well, collabing with other members on lore, hiring building teams and people to make intros and credit scenes, and promoting fanart and fansongs from the community!

Quackity explores his lore through heavily scripted events and amazingly shot cut scenes. While the way he expresses his lore comes at the cost of improv, the payoff of the visuals and story is well worth it! The shots he makes of the smp is downright gorgeous, no to mention he’s the first person to include irl footage in his lore (not counting facecams)! He’s not afraid of thoroughly examining his own character, being one of the only people I can think of that shows us “past events” leading up to something that has already happened.

Badboyhalo, Antfrost, Ponk, Skeppy, Captain Puffy, Punz, Awesamdude, Hannahxxrose all work together on shared lore and the payoff is amazing! By introducing the Egg, a constant antagonistic force that constantly pulls on character’s relationships with each other, everyone is able to stream together to battle for or against the egg! There’s also plenty of room for people to do individual lore that's more intimate to their respective character. They spend hours changing vines, putting up posters, slowly shaping the smp in a way that makes it exciting to watch streams to see just what has changed everyday. Because there’s so many people necessary to tell the egg’s story, it does comes at the cost of time (the egg has been around FOREVER). However, they all work together super hard and I just admire their commitment to the story they’re trying to tell!

And Sam! He has several different “Modes” his character is in (and an entirely separate character, Sam Nook) that he gets to explore lore with. He’s a terrifying warden, he’s a money motivated businessman, he’s a conflicted lover, he’s a traumatized victim of the egg, and just so much more. Through having so many different “roles” in the rp he gets to explore relationships and plotlines with a whole array of people. Not to mention he’s absolutely cracked at redstone and has some of the most impressive builds on the server.

And Puffy! So much of her lore is calling into question the morality of the server and really makes you step back and think critically about the characters. Her character also has, in my opinion, one of the most interesting relationships with Dream, the main antagonist of the entire server, which is just fascinating to watch unfold. Not to mention she’s one of the first people to start exploring the backstory of her character!

George doesn’t exactly do lore. In fact he’s slept through so much of it it’s become a meme. And you know what? That mad man took that and ran with it. He explains his absence in the story by having his character literally being asleep through it, creating mystery where there used to just be an absence. He’s able to goof off with his friends and have borderline nonsensical streams, then at the end sucker punch the audience emotionally by “waking up” and have the viewers question just what was real and what wasn’t?

The smp has the freedom for people who want more independent lore to be able to explore their character’s that way as well!

Hbomb, Connereatspants, and Purpled don’t have a lot of lore on the smp, generally only coming on to have fun with everyone, but when they do have their moments it unfolds in very interesting ways!

Sapnap, Eret, and Schlatt maybe aren’t as active as some other people, but when they are on they actively participate in lore and have lasting impacts on the story (Ex: Eret’s betrayal, Sapnap’s visit to dream in the prison, Schlatt becoming president).

Philza mostly does his own thing, improving the server or making some bomb ass builds. He has incredibly devastating roles in lore (killing wilbur, blowing up L’manberg for the final time, starting the syndicate with Techno), but he also has quieter moments that speak to the depth his character has, such as fishing with fundy or reminiscing about his dead son and how it went so wrong. Like Techno, he doesn’t like to take lore completely seriously, often laughing no matter what’s happening or teasing chat after something big goes down, but his character is solid with a lot of potential for future lore.

Foolish has only started on his character and its already super interesting. The hints at his dark past as a “god of death” and his current conflict with the egg are intriguing as fuck. Not to mention the MASSIVE builds he does for everyone, helping to progress their lore as well.

Fundy has a lot of freedom with his character to participate however much he wants in lore. While generally he’s a trickster who loves to prank people he has enough tragedy build into his backstory he’s able to break the viewer’s heart with a flip of a switch. Not to mention his recent, almost surreal, stream that explored his character’s disturbing dreams that may or may not predict the future.

Niki is very character driven, exploring her character's grief of losing her best friend and her anger of being ignored in the very country she helped create. She has incredibly emotional moments, and even though she’s on her own building an underground city she still participates in other lore via teaming with jack manifold or the syndicate.

Jack Manifold’s lore is VERY character focused, and while he’s described his story as a “B plot that occasionally intersects with the main plot”, the story he tells is still fascinating. Being pushed aside not taken seriously his whole life, his character develops into a fun cartoony-esque villain who begs to be taken seriously, that has the depth of a truly conflicted person who is torn between wanting revenge on everyone who’s done him wrong and just wanting a friend.

Last but not least, the man himself, Dream. The most fascinating thing about his lore is that absolutely none of it is from his pov. All we know about his character is only from what we see from everyone else’s povs, and in his case it leads to a very intimidating villain! Not to mention, mans owns the damn server and yet has made himself the main antagonist! He is the only character I consider a “true villain” on the smp. His voice acting and writing is downright sinister. I could write a fucking essay on how his character’s obsession with power has led him to the point he thinks himself an unstoppable god

Everyone on this server is stunning and I love all of them!!!!!

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interact-if · 3 years

Note

I’m sending this in because it seems like I could get good opinions from not only you but also the people who follow you. I have an idea for an IF, and I’m very excited for the story. My question is, would people be offended if I made the playable MC physically female that identifies as female and all the ROs physically male that identify as male? I have seen some out there that are strictly M/M or F/F, and I’m so happy they exist because I feel that population is underserved. I just feel, not having the experience, I could bring justice to writing LGBTQ+ (and I don’t want to offend anyone in that community by writing something incorrect), mostly when it comes to sex (which I plan on including in my game). I support games that have those relationships in them and admire them, even play those games, and I don’t care who plays my game. The more the merrier! I still want the characters to be diverse. One of them will be of a descent that is based on Japanese culture and many others, based on Persian culture. I also want the playable MC to have any skin tone/features the player wants. I just want to know if this…will have people coming after me? I want to tell my story, but I don’t want to be attacked for it, if that makes sense?

I really don’t mean to offend anyone. I just don’t want to cause trouble, and I just want to respectfully ask for people’s opinions on this.

Hello! So, before diving into our response, we’d like to emphasize that we are but five individuals running a blog devoted to interactive fiction. We are neither the end-all-be-all voice on this matter nor necessarily a representative mouthpiece for the community.

First off, you can write whatever you would like to write; as the author, you have absolute control over what you produce, so nobody is going to stop you from writing what you want to write. It’s also important to write what you enjoy.

That said, the community is, in our experience, very inclusive, and largely devoted to providing a space for the queer community. We can understand the desire to have an appropriately inclusive and diverse game, and why you particularly want to turn to characters of color to bridge the gap; however, substituting characters of color for queer characters to claim diversity in a project is possibly something that will receive the wrong kind of attention. Furthermore, assuming that writing characters of color well is any less complex than writing queer characters potentially suggests that said characters could end up underdeveloped or tokenized. (See Nines' and Roast’s response below for more context)

All of that doesn’t mean you can’t make a game that’s genderlocked and restricted to M/F romance, and I don’t think anyone will be offended by such a game, but it might limit your audience. At the same time, there are (many) other visual novels that have this format, so it’s not something unheard of. As far as CoGs and text-based games go, as far as we’ve seen, they are rarely genderlocked unless for plot reasons, etc.

There is also a chance that you may receive feedback requesting that the MC be un-gender locked, or for additional ROs to be added of different gender, or for the ROs to be made gender selectable. These requests may be gentle, insistent, kind, or aggressive, and they may only occur at the beginning of your work, or may occur throughout your game development. Maybe they’ll never happen at all. It’s impossible to predict the future, but in our experience, we have often seen this occur to games in the past with RO gender imbalances, locks, etc.

As for searching for feedback, if you’re looking for feedback but you’re not pursuing the CoG format, may we suggest the Reddit subforum? It’s a little difficult for you to get the feedback/dialogue going here that you’d likely like to get, so Reddit’s format may be more conducive to your needs.

In the meanwhile, those who would like to provide their thoughts are encouraged to respond in the comments of this post. Please remember to be polite with your discussion!

— — —

The above is our general mod response; a few of us wanted to offer some individual thoughts as well, and those can be found below. These are personal opinions and reflect each individual mod’s thoughts, rather than a collective response.

While it can be a little daunting to write about something you’re not familiar with, writing often broaches topics with which we don’t personally have first-hand experience. Additionally, queer relationships are ultimately still relationships between people—they’re not all that different from heterosexual relationships. If you’re worried about the way you’re portraying your content, that’s something well-curated beta readers/testers (from the population you’re trying to represent) can help test for, and give feedback on. And on top of all of the above, that’s not to mention the potential issues associated with substituting in POC to replace queer people, which is perhaps not what your intention is, but is what it feels like your intention is (see Roast and Nines for all the ins and outs on why this is an issue). Ultimately, I stand by the opinion that on the most basic level, most will not be offended by a game that’s about a straight, cisgender female MC—yet some, or even many, may be off-put by such a game. I know I, personally, am. (P. S. Also consider that the MC has to interact with the other ROs that she isn’t romancing, as friends, enemies, acquaintances, what have you—having selectable ROs, for example, also allows the player to “diversify” their acquaintance group, if they so wish.) — Dani

I understand that this ask is coming from well-meaning intent but I would just like to state that writing characters of color is not easier than writing queer characters. One of them isn't a substitute for the other. Writing characters of color and writing queer characters are separate matters entirely, and both come with its own difficulties. Wanting your characters to be diverse, while admittedly lacking the perspective to back such identities, is still a murky water to navigate.

Personally speaking, and I really do have to be transparent about this, the way certain sentences were phrased in this ask rubbed me the wrong way. Still, I understand that this isn't malicious, just someone who is asking for guidance, which is something I can't fault. We all have to start somewhere, you know? That being said, if you really want to write diverse characters, my general advice is to do research. Lots and lots and lots of research. No author is exempt from that, honestly.

Find helpful articles, journals, studies, video essays, etc. to aid you in writing your characters. If you still feel like that's lacking in some way, which is a valid concern, being open to feedback from the appropriate people is also a good way to improve. The integrity of a project is important, but so is reasonable criticism against, for, or about it. Keep an open mind, educate yourself, and don't be afraid to ask for help or clarification should it be needed. — Nines

Nines says it well that queer people and poc are not interchangeable nor any 'easier' than the other. The fact that you're willing to do research and include characters of color yet not include queer characters tells me that you're afraid yet misconstruing how much effort actually gets put into cultural research.

There is a 'purity culture' that goes around tumblr that claims that diverse characters have to be perfect, have to have no flaws, cannot die, cannot have trauma, cannot face adversity, they must be perfect and good and happy.

I think this is bullshit.

I also think the backlash from this 'purity culture' community is what is creating so much fear in authors (including queer authors!!) in making characters with different backgrounds and identities than their own. In making queer characters with flaws and tragedy and negative characteristics.

If we only ever wrote what we knew, what we've personally experienced, fiction would be a very boring world.

Being afraid of representing a community wrong is a valid fear, but it shouldn't stop you from trying. You can write what you want to write, but it shouldn't be limited by fear.

Do your research. Get sensitivity readers. Be open to feedback. Be willing to be afraid, but do it anyway.

If, in the end, you decide to gender lock, make it an informed decision at the very least, and if you are including characters of color, know that that is a heavy amount of research too, and should be handled with the same care as what we've said on queer characters.

And like we've said before, we are not the voice of the community, we cannot give you permission or our blessing or flawless feedback, we are just five people running a blog. — Roast

Alright this was already mentioned a bit before but I wish to add my two cents: M/F relationships are the norm anywhere else in real life, and if you feel like there's no space for you and your relationships in a mostly-queer community then you might want to recheck if this is the community you wish to have as your target audience.

No one's going to be offended if your story is cishet, as we said, but you are extremely reducing your audience by doing such. The appeal of interactive fiction is that a good bunch of us have played female-mc-straight-love-interest visual novels in the past, having to endure being misgendered or romancing people we might not be attracted to.

The current interactive fiction community we're trying to promote has opened a million doors for everyone to explore themselves, so don't be surprised if your story, no matter how good, is ignored due to this aspect. Most of us have no interest in being forced to play as something we're not.

Again, we cannot tell you what you can or cannot do. We don't speak for the community, we speak for ourselves and for this blog. Maybe every comment we've made was incorrect and your game turns out to be successful, really, but it's what we believe you should keep in mind. — Cruz

Honestly, I don’t have much to add since everyone here mentioned and discussed important facets of this ask! At the end of the day, we are not a group who can or will ever dictate what you can or cannot write. That is not the purpose of the blog or the reason why we’re working as hard as we are.

There have always been games with this specific set of characteristics: gender locked MCs and/or ROs. Some people may enjoy it, others may not, for whatever reason.

Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee anything in terms of how people will respond to a game, because people will react to content differently. All we can do is offer our perspective and the potential things that may happen in the future based on the experience the lovely devs above have had. (fellow interact-if mods, my beloved ❤️)

It’s always admirable for people to reach out when they’re unsure, and I’m sure there are infinitely more opinions that vary or are similar to the ones in this response. But there you have it, some of our thoughts!

Goodluck with your project! — Mars

#interact-if asks #anonymous #long post

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lunarimpact · 3 years

Note

...now i want to know your opinion on fgo arjuna. i know they really mishandled him, esp in the beginning, but id like to hear the thoughts of someone who's more familiar with him (hes my favorite)

Lucky you, he’s actually a character I used to despise. I used to hate how he’s the most beloved of the Gods, the boy-prince who can do no wrong, who is always just and true. He’s the hero! The good boy, the best boy, we love this boy!

But... that’s really not the case is it?

Arjuna is as complicated as everyone else in the Mahabharata, and startlingly sad. He’s not allowed, really, to be anything but the best, but he has the most painful weight upon his shoulders.

Imagine, for just a moment:

You, a boy, are born as the son of Indra, the King of the Gods, a gift to your human father, Pandu, and one of five known brothers. And you, a boy, are witness to the death of one of your mothers, her suicide, right after Pandu’s death, and you can’t even mourn that before your whole life is stolen from you, and you become the plaything of the Gods, for their dharma, for their war.

Every step you take is meant to build up hatred between you and your cousins. Is meant to make you view the world as desperately in need of a change. And you, you can be the arrow of change. Or, at least, part of it. You will be forced to flee all your years. You will face untold horrors, make stupid mistakes, and not be allowed to rest.

And the trauma just keeps building.

You will love four women to varying degrees. One of which is going to be the downfall of all of India. One is a woman who is an unknown aged naga, from probably several yugas past, and knows what is going to take place. She begets you a son and tells you to go, because that was the deal, after all. One is a prince-princess of a distant kingdom, and she’s your equal, but you can’t be happy with her. You leave. The last, your destined, almost, is Yogamaya incarnate, and she’s Krishna’s sister. His beloved sister, and your happiness already has a noose around it.

You, a young-old man, will be the tool of Vishnu, through Krishna, to slaughter your own flesh and blood. You, a young-old man, will take the life of your older-half-brother when he is weaponless, begging you to stay your hand till he can at least defend himself. You, a kshatriya, will take his head, and you have no choice.

This war is your birthright, happy birthday baby, don’t you cry.

Arjuna is traumatized. He’s depressed. He’s hurting so damn much throughout his own story, and he’s never really allowed the closure he deserves.

And, yeah, fgo’s portrayal of him isn’t great. He’s self-absorbed and an arrogant prick at first glance, and this isn’t to say he hasn’t always been these things in some capacity, and his inferiority-superiority complex is so underwhelming, but there’s something so fragile about him. Like look at how he desperately wants to appear perfect, to be your top priority. He wants to be so much, and yet it’s absolutely a mask.

He hates himself.

He’s a tool, meant to be used, and he’s aware of it. He’s his Masters tool, and he alludes to how others have used him and killed him when they didn’t need him anymore. And some part of him absolutely accepts this as truth.

He’s so wrapped up in his previous life, his previous fate, that he can no longer separate himself from Karna, funnily enough. He’s wrapped up in this idea that they are always going to kill each other, that they have no choice, while ignoring the fact that he’s already fulfilled this role.

And some part of me just wants to scream, it’s finished, it’s over Arjuna, move on! He’s already fulfilled that left over dharma, which was laid upon his shoulders by the Gods. He’s not destined to kill Karna again and again and again; it was a one and done for that lifetime. It’s over, move on.

Can we please separate the boys already?

They are not each others end all be all. And we’re not even allowed to glimpse at the respect that Arjuna and Karna had for each other, differences aside. Or how their interactions were canonly few and far between. In fact, I’m surprised it’s not Krishna who continues to haunt him, to linger in his thoughts and mind the way he used to. No, wait, that’s wrong, because it’s briefly touched upon in his second, and glorious, interlude, and will make a reappearance in -REDACTED-.

I think fgo is slowly starting to build Arjuna up into a likeable character now, who is relying more on his own merits, and not his blessings from the Gods or Krishna or his shitty fate. But they’re still treating him like a childish youth, a tsundere-chuuni-whatever the fuck. Relying pretty heavy on some likeable tropes, but not giving him the growth he deserves. Not letting us peak into the past of a great warrior with all this pain in him. Not letting us really explore all that much about him behind face value.

We’re not even allowed to talk about any of his wives, mind you. It’s brought up as a throw away comedy line between him and Rama that makes no fucking sense, when Arjuna loved all of his wives as best as he could, and they taught him so much. And that line is solely focused on Draupadi, without going into context about how it happened, that it was a mistake on all their parts, and enforced by Narada. We don’t even really get to talk about how much Arjuna loved Kunti.

Anyway, they get points for making him look like the lovechild of Arjuna and Krishna though! His design is beautiful, I won’t lie, and I love his wedding kurta.

#Anonymous #asks #the chorus fucking vents #fgo #Arjuna ( FGO )#Arjuna #I'm sorry if this doesn't cover everything anon #but there is genuinely so much I want to say but can't fathom how to.#A lot of what I want to say would lead into spoilers about LB4 #and I don't have the heart to go into that.

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redrose-arrow · 3 years

Note

Do you think Royal Ranger is not as good as his other books? I know a lot of people don't like Madelyn.

I honestly don’t think the Royal Ranger is a weak link in the series. I am aware that a lot of people don’t like Madelyn, and I think that’s fair and understandable, even if I don’t agree. I actually have another post up about that, so go check that out if you want to know more about why I like Madelyn and why I think many other fans do not!

In regards to the strength of the Royal Ranger itself - personally, it’s as high up there in my personal ranking as some of my other all time favourites. I’ll explain why in a bit.

For starters - I think a lot has to do with expectation management: we never would have gotten the stories we wanted. Romantic relationships - and even emotions, in some ways - don’t even reach the podium in terms of the series’ focus. I think, since I never really expected to read a book in which Will and Alyss’ relationship would be a focus, I also wasn’t that disappointed not to get that. More on that later.

Obviously, there’s the discourse surrounding Maddie. If you don’t like her, it’s already challenging to convince you to like her books. I have another long post about this, in case you’re curious :). In any case - I love her.

What I also loved was Will’s character development. Now, this is a tricky point, because I know a lot of fans do not approve of how Will’s depression was handled. Let me preface my own point by saying this: I understand. I understand that the harsh pull-back to reality is not something that works for everyone and I can understand that many fans would have liked to see something else. But here’s the thing: it works for some. It worked for a close friend of mine. It worked for me. Throughout the series, we always see Will as the hero. Even when he’s addicted to warmweed, he recovers from that quickly (ignoring the trauma is another point unrelated to this one). He almost dies - more than once - but he’s always quickly back on his feet. The Royal Ranger is the first (and so far only) book in the series that explores a different side of his character. His darker side. The side that’s hurting, that’s uncaring about anyone, least of all himself. The side that could kill him in more ways than one. The side that he needs to be saved from. Seeing that side of him shocked me, and I love the book for it. Especially to see his growth back to happiness. He laughs again, for the first time, but when he’s reminded of Gilan and Jenny’s relationship he’s sad and a little jealous. He has to physically restrain himself when he finds out he’s hunting Ruhl, but he’s also joking around with Maddie when they’re coming up with their plan. And then there’s the crying, and we read that the tears are for Alyss, finally, but they’re also for Maddie. And for him - most of all, for him. That growth was so relatable for me, that sentence so close to me, I loved it so much, I cannot help but love the entire book for it.

But. Alyss had to die. Believe me when I say that that was a shocker for me too. In my post about why I like Maddie I mentioned that I think many dislike Maddie because she’s Alyss’ replacement, and I want to include that here as well. Yes, Maddie’s pretty much a replacement for Alyss. And something in me hates it, to excuse a male author for killing off one female character to introduce another, and yet again, I cannot help but do so. In this book, Maddie has two roles: one, to be a female hero, and two, to help Will’s character development. There’s little for me to say about the first point, so let’s delve into the second. Given the fact that the Royal Ranger was initially the finale for the series as a whole, we can assume that Will’s character development (that I mentioned earlier), was the most important aspect of the book. So, his dark side needed to be brought out. If Halt would’ve died, Will would’ve been heartbroken and he might’ve gone a little crazy too, but his mentor was old, and so the impact would’ve been different. Halt getting murdered was just too unrealistic, which leaves a semi-natural death, and that’s just not interesting for this series to explore. (Not to mention that that would’ve truly made the fandom riot.) The death of Horace or Cassandra would’ve disrupted the Royal Family too much, and it would’ve required much more of a politics focus than the series likes to delve into. That leaves us with Alyss as the only viable, realistic, and simply useful character death. Yes, yes, YES, I would’ve loved for both Alyss and Will to mentor Maddie, I think she could’ve learned a lot from them together. But that situation wouldn’t have made good on Maddie’s second role. Add to this that a Will-and-Alyss relationship never would’ve been explored a lot anyhow, and her death can be seen in a different light. Hence, I don’t very much mind her being killed off as much as others (but I am still heartbroken about it). Especially since in the future books, Maddie has really come into her role as a character of her own, and since her second role then isn’t so important anymore, she doesn’t really feel as a replacement anymore.

Now that we’re on the topic of death, here’s a quick detour to Crowley’s. Yes, I would’ve loved to see more of Halt’s grieving, but again, that’s not something the series pays particular attention to in general. It would’ve been a little too Halt-focused book and honestly? Wouldn’t have really added something to the plot. So we have to make do with a short sentence that mentions Halt finding comfort in the fact that Crowley died happily. (Also, why do y’all want Crowley to have been murdered so bad?? The man was ancien, let him rest in peace after a natural death with a smile on his face.)

Then there’s the matter of Cassandra and Horace’s parenting. Again, something that not everyone approves of, and rightly so. Yeah, maybe disinheriting your daughter is not the way to go. I agree. I also think it’s a very interesting “mistake”, because it is something that happened in medieval times. Furthermore, Cassandra takes after her father and Horace admits to being a bit sexist. It’s interesting, especially when you see how much Horace and Cassandra grow as parents throughout the Royal Ranger books. Fairly, the fact that Horace and Cassandra admit to not being the best parents makes me readily excuse their actions, but I cannot help it (and, I have loads of headcanons about the Royal Family that make me love them more and more).

Another thing about the Royal Ranger that tends to be disliked is the “repetition” - by which I mean Will turning in Halt 2.0 (in more ways than one). Again, there’s a few reasons why I don’t mind, and even love it. One - why wouldn’t Will be like Halt? Everyone loves their father-son relationship, and there’s more than one son I’ve seen turn into their dad in real life. Two - Will’s confronted with acting like Halt by Jenny. He tells her he just tries to copy his mentor, and she shoots right back saying how much he always complained about that. Yes, Will’s a lot like Halt, but it’s fully backed up and admitted by the series - also when it’s said that Will was barely considered as Commandant because, like Halt, he tends to bend the rules a little too much, and again in Duel at Araluen, when Duncan expresses his faith in his granddaughter partially because Will’s her mentor and Halt was his. Third - I like the parallel between Halt and Will’s relation-/apprenticeship and the one between Will and Maddie. Again, it makes sense for Will to copy Halt in a lot of things (Gorlog knows I copied a bunch of my teachers when I was standing in front of a class). But here’s the thing - Will and Maddie already know each other. They’re close. They’re almost literally family. It’s a very interesting balance that I loved to see in the Royal Ranger 1, and again in book 4. I’m really hoping for it to be explored even further in book 5.

All in all, I really like the compromise of the Royal Ranger. We got another apprenticeship, without the repetition of Halt being the mentor. It’s in the future, so we get a glimpse into the later lives of our favourite characters, but the fact that there’s 15 years unaccounted for leaves enough to the imagination. We have a new main character, but the original characters play important and recognised roles. For me, that means the Royal Ranger is many of the things I love about the original series, but it’s also fresh and new and therefore a valuable addition. Getting back to a point I made earlier: it’s an addition to the series because it is a little different and a little the same. Again, if the series would’ve ended with the Lost Stories, that would’ve been perfect. But if it would’ve continued the way a lot of fans wanted it to (honestly me included, and again, a very understandable point) the series would’ve become extremely repetitive (something that it is risking now as well, I’ll admit, but it’s taken a few more books). So, to me, the Royal Ranger seems like a fair compromise between continuing the series and keeping it intact!

Again, a bit of a longer answer, sorry anon! Also, I want to stress again that no one forces you to love the Royal Ranger - least of all me. If you want to pretend none of that happened - be my guest (even I love doing that every now and then). But I hope to have shown you why I also celebrate its existence!

#ranger's apprentice #rangers apprentice #the royal ranger #trr spoilers #ask redrose #ask redrosearrow #thanks for the ask!#trr

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highfaelucien · 3 years

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I completely agree with how you feel towards azriel. Thinking about azriel’s character now vs how I used to view him during acomaf times is just... sad and so so so much more complex. Part of me still wants to love him for the character that was presented to us in acomaf and other small good moments, like his friendship with nesta. And then the other part of me is disgusted, disappointed, and honestly kind of terrified of who he may become if sjm allows him to continue acting predatorily/toxic. The whole mor/az situation really fucked me up. As someone who is also a lesbian and an abuse survivor, it broke my heart to watch the situation unfold in acowar. It still hurts seeing many readers (and sometimes even sjm) take az’s side and paint mor as some sort of liar/two faced character that is playing everyone. I kept thinking that things would be fixed in future books, but instead az has grown worse and mor was, once again, sidelined and written out as a character. And honestly... as much as I love the idea of gwyn x azriel ... I think his books would need a lot more focus on his own recovery/growth and not center on a romantic relationship. If anything, I hope it’s written as friends to lovers so az has a better way of interacting and forming relationships with women. Because right now... well, that shit is borderline predatory and isn’t coming across well. And I really really do not want that for him. Basically, azriel deserves a better arc than what has been written for him. I miss him :( he used to be a character that made me feel safe and now :/ idk anymore

I'm going to quote parts of this/chop it up and reply to them a chunk at a time. because there's a lot going on here and I want to try and reply to as much as I can because I resonate with.....all of it. Please forgive me for the length of this.

I completely agree with how you feel towards azriel. Thinking about azriel’s character now vs how I used to view him during acomaf times is just... sad and so so so much more complex.

He feels like a different character? There was always an anger simmering under the calm surface, we knew that. But it was an anger born of love, deep down, and the desire to protect his family, and his court, at the expense of himself. Az was always the first to volunteer himself for dangerous missions, to spare the others.

Now that anger is directed at his family, and at the world, for not giving him what he feels he 'deserves'. That has NEVER been Azriel. Azriel's deepest issues and insecurities have always stemmed from the feeling of being unworthy, and undeserving of anything.

She's just made him into......Every other dude in this series tbh. Snarling, and possessive, and wanting to fuck anything in a skirt that moves.

Azriel was actually somewhat of an original, complex character initially. It's unusual that we see trauma affect men in the way it did Az. Usually it makes them angry, and vengeful, and eager to prove they are the alpha etc. Seeing them withdraw, and think less of themselves/that they're unworthy is something not explored often enough. But bye bye nuance hello #Drama.

Part of me still wants to love him for the character that was presented to us in acomaf and other small good moments, like his friendship with nesta.

I feel this. I found a lot of comfort in Az's character. Particularly the way he reacted with Mor. I was a big fan of their relationship, and I wrote a few 'missing scenes' style fics in the gap between ACOMAF and ACOWAR. One of them was where Az went to her when she had pushed everyone else away, including Cassian, and comforted and calmed her.

I hate that Maas took that away from Mor. I hate that Az no longer does that for her. I hate that Az was the one to betray her along with Rhys and bring her abuser into her safe space behind her back. I hate that he is no longer a symbol of calm, stable, dependable comfort and support for Mor, but is instead a threat. I HATE it.

Every now and then Az has lovely, gentle moments - his friendship with Nesta is a good example, and something I hoped we'd see. But also quieter times with Rhys, and their similarities being explored. And I adored the flying lessons with Feyre in ACOWAR, and the training he did with Cassian and the others in ACOFS.

But then she goes and twists him and does something else that just makes me want to fucking scream. Like the High Lord scene where he 'frightened' Mor. And his entire POV chapter which is frankly fucking gross.

And then the other part of me is disgusted, disappointed, and honestly kind of terrified of who he may become if sjm allows him to continue acting predatorily/toxic.

I agree.

I don't know how she can write a series that explores the effects of emotional abuse so well with Feyre and Tamlin...And then write what she did with Az?

The possession to a traumatised, still impressionable and desperate young woman, who likely finds the same comfort and safety in him that Mor did. Before that got shot to fucking pieces.

He sounds like a whiny toddler 'Cassian has a mate, and Rhys has a mate, where is mine!?!?!?!?' I DESERVE Elain, because I'm your brother and you guys have her sisters and what the FUCK. Who let that shit get published holy mother of god.

It's just...It's so unhealthy? Like, not even talking ship wars here (which I'm aware are rampant, and which I'm trying my best to stay away from). But that just.

How can that ever be a healthy foundation for a relationship? A man who thinks that he deserves, not only to be in a relationship with her, but to be bonded to her. Not because of HER, not because of who she is, or how she makes him feel. No. Purely because her sisters are mated to his brothers?

The whole thing made me feel so uncomfortable. It's predatory and toxic, just as you said. It's not right, it's not fair. Forget alliances and Lucien, even if none of that was a factor, that sort of thinking is still not right. And it's completely unfair to Elain.

But it also just. It didn't read like Azriel. The first part, where he struggles to sleep, and pushes himself until he passes out, and the insight that his shadows are basically hovering beside him screaming SELF CARE YOU DUMB BITCH at all times was very pleasing.

And the part where he goes to Clotho and leaves an anonymous gift for Gwyn. No fanfair. No audience. No pressure on either of them to react/perform. That felt like Az, too.

But everything in the middle. Everything with Elain, was just...Gross and out of character. And this is not because I dislike E/riel as a ship. I could get on board with it, tbh, if it wasn't written the way it was.

But it's not about ships, for me. It's just. Everything felt out of character. The predatory way he was with her. The fact he lies awake and gets himself off to fantasies of her. How apparently quickly he was aroused by putting a necklace on her. Idk, maybe it's my ace ignorance, but that doesn't sound normal/healthy to me.

Nor does him having to leave a room because he can scent her mating bond with Lucien. Or not being able to control himself to sit and eat dinner with her?

This is the same dude who has, apparently, been in love with Mor for 500 solid years, and who never did a damned thing about it. Who always kept himself in check. Even while she's had other lovers. But he can't control himself through one dinner with Elain?

It just. It doesn't feel like him. It feels like...Honestly not even Cassian. It feels like Tamlin on horny, predatory steroids. And that's not something I ever wanted to see from Azriel's POVs.

She could have explored a darker side to him without making it sexual? And misogynistic. And having him treating Elain as little more than a fucking object that he feels entitled to because 'everyone else got one, where's mine?'. What the FUCK???

The more I write it the more angry I get.

Because SJM has consistently put Az in the position of saving women when they were in danger? He was the one who found Mor near death at Autumn. He was the one who rescued Gwyn from her attackers during the war. He was the one to retrieve Elain when she was taken.

She always puts him in this position and, for better or worse, presents him as a safety figure for these women. The first person who they saw come for them, and fight for them, and protect them.

And on the inside she makes him this vile, predatory monster who just thinks constantly about fucking them? Who isn't actually safe at all?? It's sad. And it's infuriating. Because this isn't about ships anymore. This is about female survivors who have an apparent safe person who's presented as almost as dangerous as the people who attacked them in the first place. And that makes me feel so sick and sad that we've gotten here.

It still hurts seeing many readers (and sometimes even sjm) take az’s side and paint mor as some sort of liar/two faced character that is playing everyone. I kept thinking that things would be fixed in future books, but instead az has grown worse and mor was, once again, sidelined and written out as a character.

This is yet another vile thing SJM has done to queer readers with this whole fiasco. Because it puts me in a position where I want to call out her shitty writing, and what she's done to Mor - sidelining her as soon as she became queer. Undermining her power and her strength. Undermining her role as the survivor to look up to. Saying her power is truth but then making her seem like a liar. Which is all shitty, shitty, shitting writing.

But I'm also a queer person. And I will always always ALWAYS want to defend a queer person's right to remain closeted. Regardless of their reasons for doing so. But in this case it's a concern for their safety/a fear of how those around them will react. And I will NEVER condemn that. I will never say Az is suffering more than Mor for her being closeted. I will never call Mor a liar/a manipulator/two-faced when all she's doing is trying to survive.

I WILL condemn SJM for making this a scenario. For putting homophobia in her world purely to cause pain for queer characters, and drama for her straight ones. And for sidelining Mor as soon as she can't write graphic scenes with her fucking men because now she's a lesbian so we best get her off the page so the guys can get their cocks out some more.

And honestly... as much as I love the idea of gwyn x azriel ... I think his books would need a lot more focus on his own recovery/growth and not center on a romantic relationship. If anything, I hope it’s written as friends to lovers so az has a better way of interacting and forming relationships with women. Because right now... well, that shit is borderline predatory and isn’t coming across well. And I really really do not want that for him.

This is going to sound sarcastic but I actually mean it fully and completely genuinely: 95% of the drama inducing problems in this series could be fixed with some fucking therapy.

But I agree with you. I think it's high time Azriel worked on his own issues. Even if they've apparently made a complete 180 from what they were in ACOMAF.

I...Like the concept of Gwyn/Azriel, but I'm not sold on the ship. Not with the way Maas has been writing Azriel lately. That kind of man shouldn't be with any woman right now. But especially not a rape survivor who sees him as one of the first men she's been able to trust in a long time.

Basically, azriel deserves a better arc than what has been written for him. I miss him :( he used to be a character that made me feel safe and now :/ idk anymore

"he used to be a character that made me feel safe" - This shit hit me like a tonne of bricks because this is EXACTLY how I feel about Az, too. You just managed to say it in a few words instead of 12 pages of rambling, like I do.

And I think this was intention. Azriel was presented as a very dependable character. He rescued Mor, and was respectful enough to keep his distance, despite his feelings, for 500 fucking years. Because he didn't think she was ready/interested.

He had a very calm, and calming air about him. Always in control of himself. Without the expected bursts of aggression and temper we'd seen from...Every other male character in this series. He was stable, and solid, and that was comforting. An anchor. And someone who would quietly, and without fuss, seek out Mor/others when they needed someone to talk to or comfort him.

That was a very soothing, reassuring presence in the book, I felt. And now she's made him seem...volatile, and unstable. With this dangerous anger that he can't control, that he uses not to protect, but to intimidate, and to fuel his entitlement and desires.

it's just sad. It's sad that she's taken this away from Mor, but also from other survivors who found comfort and safety in Az. Because I'm sure we weren't alone in that regard.

I miss him. And I mourn the character he was, and feel anger for the character he should have been. but instead he's become yet another possessive, entitled, snarling cardboard cutout dude like...everyone else.

And I ache for the Az/Mor dynamic that we had in ACOMAF. Even without it becoming romantic, there was no reason for that to be destroyed/ruined.

She could have written it that Az is the only one who knows about her sexuality, and that he pretends he's still in love with her as a shield/buffer, so no one looks too closely/to protect her and make her feel comfortable.

Instead she turned it into a soap opera style drama. And wrote it almost as though her sexuality was her cheating on him? Denying him what he deserved. And now she's just...just pussyfooting around it. And apparently he's just. Just moved on. Without them having any kind of conversation or closure at all. He just wanks off to the thought of Elain instead of Mor, now, problem solved /s

I miss what they were. I miss what he was to Mor. I miss when she had that support system, and that safety net. I miss when he protected her. And looked out for her. And understood her in a way that no one else, not even Rhys, did.

Mor deserved that. Azriel deserved that. WE deserved that. And she nuked it for some fucking twisted drama that punishes a lesbian because a man is thirsting after her. it's a fucking disgrace. I'm so fucking done with SJM, y'all. So fucking done.

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