#do whatever you want and have fun. that's what fandom is all about

[deliciousnecks]

But can we talk about how powerful nandor is? like yeah, he might be a bit silly, and not in touch with the modern world, but if he wanted to, he could have already conquered whatever the fuck he wanted to. (he built an army, and jerry is still looking at maps over there).

like let's just start by pointing out that nandor didn't need to be a vampire to accomplish all these great things that he wanted in life. vampirism only made him more dangerous. nandor has always had too much power in his hands, that he tends to misuse, but that's actually a good thing for the people around him because if not, the truth is that they would be fucked.

He was born in a position of privilege, one that put him later on in his life in positions of power, he was a leader who did fucked up shit. As a vampire, he can hypnotize thousands, but even if he couldn't, nandor knows how to attract people to him when he puts his mind to it, as we were able to see, but guess what? he also has doing everyone around him doing whatever shit he wants, because rarely people can say no to him. What nandor wants, nandor gets (even the stupidest of things).

Now. Don't get me started with his pyrokinesis. The dude can create and manipulate fire. Like come on, you know all the batshit crazy things that he could be doing with that? people should be thankful that he's not going around acting in unhinged ways.

He's a formidable warrior, the fact that he live as long as he did as a human, through battles and wars, and the guy didn't get killed? i don't know, but I think that says a lot about his kills. he also can use a large variety of weapons, so now imagine. This guy who's the greatest warrior of his time, gets the strength and the speed that comes with vampirism. he becomes a fucking killing machine (not like he wasn't one already), but now he's unstoppable and on top of that, immortal!

As i said in the beginning of this post, time and time again nandor has been given power, too much power I should say. he even got those 52 wishes and the things my guy here could have accomplished with them? ridiculous! but he was feeling silly, so... he decided to have fun instead. Good for him.

Now, we now he conquered places and won wars, and while his years as a ruler were bloody, it seems like he did a lot of Al Quolanudar when it comes to territory. What I'm trying to say is that he's a good strategist, he's good, no he's the best at what he does. he excels in what he was trained and taught to do (and even the vampire community acknowledges this).

People always like to underestimate him (the fandom included. it's true.), say that in a battle he stands no chance. That X, Y, and Z are more could easily demolish him, that he can't do shit for himself, but like excuse me, he's the oldest vampire in that house, look at all the shit that he can do, so no. He's the strongest and most powerful piece in that chessboard, mam. Nandor could go on a killing spree and no one could stop him.

This latest season really brought forward this qualities of his that had always been there. Nandor can be competent, he can be assertive, he really just chooses not to, but if he did! well, we saw what can happen when he is.

nandor is powerful, skillful, and dangerous in more than one way, and yes! smart when he needs to be.

And i make this post, because some people have made him into this character that's just an idiot with 0 qualities, and those qualities that he does have, are always being diminished to make other characters look better (yes. to make guillermo look better. i said it, which is highly unnecessary because he can shine on his own).

It's not that he can't do shit, the fact is that he doesn't want to.

[burningcheese-merchant]

When Burning Spice was introduced a lot of people made comparison with Capsaicin, and even thought they were related. You have any thoughts on that?

I do, and you're all probably going to be very disappointed lol

Not only do I NOT vibe with the idea that they're related, I'm actually really annoyed that it's as popular as it is lol. It doesn't even make sense. Burning Spice was in prison for thousands of years; when, where and how did he have a kid? At what point in time did this occur? Capsaicin is a young man. A regular mortal, outside of his "Spice Overlord" thing. I ask you all again: when? Where? How? WHY? Has anyone ever actually thought this through?

"ThEy LoOk SiMiLaR" okay, and? So fucking what? Neither of them own the concept of "long hair" or "muscles" or "sharp teeth". Pitaya has those too, and he has an arguably more substantial connection to Capsaicin because they're actually from the same fucking area. Happenstance. Lots of characters in this game have similar attributes, that doesn't necessarily mean anything

"ThEy'Re BoTh SpIcY" Refer to point A. Do you all think all the nut-based cookies are related, too? That's the logic you might as well be operating on. Correlation is not causation

"Blah blah both jail" you know how many characters in this whack-ass phone game count as felons, bro? How many of them SHOULD count as felons lol? The Cookie Run universe might as well be one giant Alcatraz with all the shit these little affronts to God get up to every day, I ain't making them all each other's relatives because of it

They're the wrong ages for them to be family. Burning Spice was serving a life sentence since long before Capsaicin was even thought of, he literally got out after the guy was already a grown ass man. They're not even from the same fucking CONTINENT! Capsaicin has probably never even HEARD of Beast-Yeast! Even that little comic the CRK Twitter account posted makes fun of all this shit!!! The Wild Spices mistake Cap for Spice from behind, and then get confused when he turns around because THEY VERY CLEARLY DO NOT KNOW WHO HE IS AND HAVE NEVER SEEN HIM BEFORE! Wouldn't an army know if their general had a son, even if it was only mentioned in passing? Wouldn't THIS army have a vested interest in having their general's son around if he existed, and stop at nothing to bring him home should he vanish, to gain favor with Spice and because of how powerful Capsaicin is and how useful he could be to them?

I wouldn't be so bent out of shape about all this if it wasn't LITERALLY FUCKING EVERYWHERE!!! I cannot enjoy any content of Burning Spice OR Capsaicin without having to endure a fucking barrage of "hurr durr father and son" posts!!! I just want to ogle my hot, sexy, deliciously evil spice man BY HIM-FUCKING-SELF in peace, I never asked to have to hear the exact fucking same "hi son I came back with the milk" joke over and over and over again

I know I sound like a massive dick right now and I'm truly sorry. You are more than welcome to think of these two as related in some way if you wish. I am not your mother, nor your leader, nor your god, I'm just some cringe loser on the internet. Enjoy this game and its characters in whatever way you choose. I even actually like a good bit of the father/son art, a lot of it is cute and funny. I'm able and willing to say that with complete sincerity.

I just wish I didn't have to feel like it's being forced on me. That is one of the biggest issues I have with this fandom: how oppressive it often feels. You MUST ship this particular pairing, you MUST headcanon these characters as family, you MUST take this one-off joke that was clearly just a goddamn joke and preach it 24/7/365 like it's the gospel truth that Devsis themselves wrote on stone tablets and delivered from the top of Mount Sinai. And then when someone doesn't want to do that, everyone else descends upon them like a plague of fucking locusts. I actually saw a Dad Spice + Son Cap post on here with the person who made it saying something like "ok since everyone agrees that these two are family [...]" and I just got so fucking irritated. No, actually, not everyone agrees. Not everyone agrees on a lot of the fanon that's shoved down the entire community's throats on a regular basis. PLEASE stop acting like they do. I still remember when people would get flat-out harassed for not acting like Herb is Sea Fairy's son (old ass drama lol).

Say what you will about me, I'm just one person and you can block me or whatever dumb tags I use for my dumb shit. There is NOWHERE I can go to avoid this. Twitter? Plagued. Tumblr? Plagued. Even fucking reddit is on this nonsense (only in my personal opinion). But that's what I get for acknowledging Reddit in any capacity lol

I shall once again sincerely apologize for my harsh tone here, I am not attacking you personally or anyone who headcanons these two as relatives. I am just generally, profoundly frustrated and I need to get it out. I appreciate you taking the time to ask me an honest question, I hope you can forgive me for my painfully honest answer

[magalidragon]

🏒 the deal 🎶 | “Sometimes people sneak up on you and suddenly you don't know how you ever lived without them.”

HAPPY BIRTHDAY @youwerenevermine! 🥳🥰😘🤗🎂🎈🎊🎁 Okay fine whatever so I am a few hours your time early, but I was so excited to share and honestly, the world is going to end soon and I wanted to get ahead of the game. I went back and forth over what to do for you and couldn’t decide so went with this. The original hockey boyfriend Mr. Garrett Graham and sassy Hannah Wells! It is Jonerys meets THE DEAL! I hope you like it! So grateful to this fandom for introducing me to you! Love you bby! 😘

There was a very strong possibility Jon Snow had made a terrible mistake making this deal with Daenerys Targaryen. He figured it was easy enough; she was a smarty pants and could help him get his grade up in what was supposed to be an "easy A" philosophy class and keep him from getting benched. In doing so, he'd pretend to date her and the guy she had a crush on-- fucking Robb, his own damn cousin-- would see her as a bit more than weird silver-haired purple-eyed Dany and want to ask her out. Since Robb wanted anything he couldn't have-- particularly if Jon had it first.

Now he was watching Robb openly flirt with her and was squeezing his beer bottle so hard he figured he'd be benched not for his shitty philosophy grade but for having to get stitches in his stick hand. It was supposed to be an easy quid-pro-quo. A deal. Started off more annoying than anything else-- Dany could not have cared one single snowflake that he was Queen Alysanne University's star left winger and frequently let him know it. He honestly appreciated it, even if he had to really wear her down, chasing her all over Winterfell to get her to concede.

That had honestly been fun. Then there were their random long conversations after studying. Topics ranged from the best pizza toppings-- pepperoni and more pepperoni for him, while she saw nothing wrong with pineapple on her pizza-- to the best Marvel movie-- he didn't mind that movie about 'The Eternals' while she thought it sucked and liked 'Ant Man' more, all the way over to which House of Commons member should win the two highly competitive ridings near Winterfell or who really won the War of Five Kings?

He also had admitted to her some things he'd never shared with anyone. That he might be the aloof "Ice Man" of QAU hockey who could get any girl he wanted, he actually played that image outside of his truly private life. In reality he just couldn't think of girls, he was too busy trying to do his best to keep his grades up to get a very difficult degree in metallurgy and cultural anthropology while also making sure he didn't lose his rookie contract with the Winterfell Wolves professional hockey team.

Just like he knew all she wanted was to get the bonus money from the School of Drama and Music's winter showcase to help with her mother's medical bills, back in Pentos. That her dream was to sing on stage at the King's Landing Opera House.

All of that swam in his head, those conversations and late nights, sitting out in the quad on a blanket while she quizzed him on long dead Maesters, or that time she'd come to one of his games and he'd scored a hat trick, so she ahd to come to every singel one afterward.

He had done his job; he talked her up to Robb. He lingered in the living room of his and Robb's shared house when they would talk, just in case there needed to be extra prodding. Now they were on a bloody, fucking date.

"Jon, buddy, let go of the beer. The beer didn't do anything to you. Come on man, there you go." His friend and other roommate, Satin, carefully pried his fingers off the glass neck, moving the bottle to the oak bartop. "Alright, so when are you going to tell her?"

"Huh?" He was now glaring at the back of Robb's stupid auburn head, wondering if he could cut off those fucking curls while he was sleeping and blame their fourth roommate Theon. "Tell her what?"

"That you're in love with her, you dipshit."

Thank the gods he wasn't holding the beer bottle because he'd have definitely dropped it. He also was glad he didn't have any beer in his mouth, because that would have been sputtered everywhere as he gaped at Satin, who was now studying his fingernails nonchalantly. "Wha...what...I'm not....she's a friend! She wasn't just a friend, she was...Dany.

Dany, whose first words to him were: "I'm sorry do I know you?"

Dany, who always tied her long silver braids up on her head in a knot using pencils. Who hummed random song llyrics and chords and scribbled them on ltitle pieces of paper. Who had a voice that sounded like fucking angels from teh rafters. Who snorted and cackled when she laughed. Who called him "Wolf Man" instead of "Ice Man" because he had a wolf back home and one tattooed on his arm.

Dany....Dany who always smelled like lemons and lavender and who...

He blinked. It was like seeing everything under a different filter. Brighter. Across the bar, he watched Dany laugh at something Robb said, but it didn’t meet her eyes. She was playing with the silver guitar pick she used, something he had learned was a nervous habit. Her eyes— vibrant, happy lavender— did not fully meet his, but he knew she had glanced his way.

Gods. Was he in love with her? Was that what this feeling was? He couldn’t love her. He had to focus on hockey and studying and…it was just easier to keep that other side of him out there. If Jon Snow actually found a girl…a music major who didn’t know a deke from a slapshot and thought there were quarters not periods…he’d never hear the end of it.

He didn’t care. He didn’t want her with Robb. “And why is that?” Satin asked.

Fuck he said that out loud? “Because she’s mine,” he snapped. He paused. “No she is her own person of course I don’t own her obviously but…” He drained the beer bottle. This was one thing Robb was not going to steal from him. He stomped over to their table and didn’t even wait for his cousin to say anything before he glanced at Dany. “Get your coat, we still have to finish that Agatha show.”

She cocked her head up, confused. “Jon what…”

“Come on.”

“Jon,” Robb began, but he didn’t even have time to finish. Jon grabbed Dany’s hand, tugging her away and towards the back corridor. “What the seven hells Jon!”

If she wanted to fight him, she could. He’d let her anyway. Dany did not pull very hard and protested over Robb’s loud complaining. “Jon seriously what the fuck are you doing?!” She pushed at his chest when he tugged them into the stairwell that led up to the bar manager office, the dim lighting throwing her face in relief. She was fuming. She was a dragon, he expected it. “What was that!?”

“I want to see something.” He didn’t wait for a response. He had to do this. So he crashed his mouth down over hers.

The shock had her gasping, lips parting under his. Soft, plump, perfect lips, and he pressed gently, his hands dropping to her small waist to hold her upright against the wall. She had her hand on his shoulder and for a second he didn’t think she was going to kiss back and made to pull away, apology at the ready, knowing he had fucked this up completely.

Until her hands dove into his hair and she opened her mouth wider, moaning and pulling him to her. He groaned, desperate now, a man who had his first taste of water after wandering a desert, and cupped her jaw, angling her head so he could rise over her, sliding his tongue along hers. Gods. She tasted like strawberries. How!? One of life’s mysteries, he supposed.

The need for air separated them, their breathing ragged and foreheads touching, noses brushing. Her gaze lifted, meeting his. “I take it you don’t think I should see Robb?”

He shook his head, whispering, “Come home with me. I’ll make you a deal.”

“And what’s that?”

He kissed her again, nipping her bottom lip. Her breasts were pressed to his chest and his knee had wedged itself between hers. They were about ten seconds away from a public indecency charge. His voice dropped, gravelly. “You come home with me and I’ll make you come within ten minutes. Five, even.”

Her cheeks flushed pink. “And what do you get out of this deal?” she asked.

He pretended to think, before flashing a grin. “The knowledge I made you come. Oh and, our next movie night you don’t wear underwear.”

She smirked now. “I am not one of your puck bunnies.”

“And you know I don’t do puck bunnies.”

After a second, she barely nodded. “Alright. Let’s see what you’ve got Wolf Man.”

“So it’s a deal then Targy?” She hated that nickname. The glare she shot him had him grinning.

She pulled at his hand, towards the back exit. “It’s a deal.”

[rapunzellovesbooks]

The way I just want to hug Luke Newton and apologize on behalf of the entire Polin fandom for the shit he had to go through over a f*** picture taken without his consent. Like, I get it was the crazies, but still. Being part of the Taylor Swift fandom and seeing how she disappeared for a damn year over a leaked video taken without her consent and taken out of context villainising her... I know it must have hurt. And we can say it was months ago and that he knows who his true fans are, but still, that stuff would affect anyone, specially someone as sensitive as he is. I usually mind my own business and do not ship real people, heck, I usually do not even go online and "protect" celebrities. I tend to just focus on the happy and celebrate the characters they play but something about that June 13th and the look on his face... it haunts me to this day. And I just feel very very bad for him still.

I am deeply aware of the fact that I know nothing about his life, not really. I only know about his feelings for Polin and Nicola, because he has spoken about them. I have access to the same amount of information as the rest of the world, the pictures and videos of their WT and behind the scenes, the interviews he has done. I do not know anyone in his life and I should not have to. Neither do I know Nicola. And hey, maybe it never happens. Maybe they are happy with someone else (I doubt it, but this is just a feeling I have) and their relationship remains unique and the millions of questions we have never get answered. My point is, I got into this fandom because seeing their bond brought me joy. I don´t think them having other people in their lives diminishes that, which is why the hate he got over one picture never sat right with me. I do not get how it affects someone´s viewing experience of a show. I do not understand why we are so focused on labelling people´s relationships, as if it is as easy as saying a pencil is pink or green. It makes me happy seeing their videos and waiting for crumbs. I have fun hoping that what I truly see as more than platonic feelings will come to fruition.

I write this because the world is in shambles right now. And the last thing anyone needs is to add more negativity to it. So, I hope that we can, in the Lukola fandom, be kind and focus on the good. I do not give a shit about paparazzi photos or whatever the "adjacents" or however you want to call them do. In fact, I have not once looked at A´s or JD´s SM, nor do I want to. They are human beings, but not the human beings I care about. Even if they are involved in Luke and Nic´s lives, I will never send them hate or bad mouth them. I have no idea what they are to them. All I know is what L and N have said about each other. And it has always been good. So, that is where I will be.

And, yes, I truly believe they will be together. And I will be happy with anything that suggests it so, cause this is supposed to be fun and joyful. I, unlike other people, do not label people as gf or bf UNLESS it comes directly from the people involved. And if anyone ever confirms or launches anything, I will still be here. Cause that is what shipping is. Not hate, not negativity, not putting other people down, not invading someone´s privacy, not thinking that a moment in time is forever (people break up all the time, there is no way to know if someone is still with someone if there was never a "launch" or whatever you want to call it).

It would make both Luke and Nicola sad to see that a connection that is supposed to bring people joy is putting people against each other. I know we were so well fed with content over so many months that now we hold onto every detail we have not dissected yet. I get it. I also miss them. But that is the way it is supposed to be. We are not supposed to know everything. We are just supposed to be grateful and happy for when something good related to them happens. That is all and that is my hope for this fandom.

Spread joy and leave the rest out of it. Spiralling only makes people dizzy. Let us "get some vision, bro" like Luke said.

Thank you for reading and, remember, be kind to one another.

[aceredshirt13]

One thing I don’t understand about AA fandom is that often the popular takes are seen as the “one true interpretation” by much of the fandom to the detriment of any opposition. To this I raise a question about two of these popular takes: how is it that Yujin and Herlock, who become friends at the ages of 27 and 18, respectively, are shipped by a large majority of the fandom, but Edgeworth and Kay, who become friends at the ages of 26 and 17, respectively, are treated by a significant portion of the fandom as father and daughter?

I hadn't thought about it until recently, but they’re the same difference apart in years and have only a single year’s difference in when they befriend each other. So why on Earth is there such a huge difference in how the fandom interprets these friendships?? Why is Kay treated like enough of a child by the fanbase that her and Edgeworth’s age difference is interpreted as parental, when that same age difference isn’t viewed as an obstacle to romance with Herlock and Yujin? Is it because Kay is met at seventeen while Herlock is met at eighteen, even though those are fundamentally extremely similar ages? Is that why people who ship Kay and Edgeworth are smeared as pedophiles, even though I sincerely doubt any of them are shipping them while she’s still a year underage (I can attest that back when I was 14 and still shipped Narumayo, zero people I ever saw shipped them while Maya was still 17), while the same concerns about age are almost never raised with Homumiko? I have no interest in “age gap discourse” or whatever because I think it’s a silly and reductive argument as long as the relationship is healthy and no minors are involved with adults, but I do care about hypocrisy. So these are things I often ponder.

(Personally, I don’t subscribe to either of the popular interpretations, and prefer the duos to be the platonic guy-and-weird-girl dynamic they are in canon and that I enjoy (and write them as such in my fics about them). I don’t think nine years is enough of a gap to interpret any character as the parent of another, and that’s also just not what Edgeworth and Kay’s dynamic feels like to me - in the same way that I was never under the impression that Yujin’s affection for Herlock was anything other than friendly and familial. I also do not envision it as the reverse - which is to say, I can’t see Kay getting together with Edgeworth any more than I can see Yujin as Herlock’s dad. But I am also not going to be upset if anyone disagrees with me, as long as they are not upset with me - because regardless of the interpretation, it’s clear that both pairs like each other, love each other, and care about each other dearly. All I’m saying is that I think if someone is going to have a fandom hill they wish to die on, they should make sure that hill has a leg to stand on. Mixing my metaphors here. But you get what I mean.)

[silverwhittlingknife]

hi Silver! o/ because that fanart made me wonder - would you happen to know when/where Dick's stuffed elephant plush Zitka turns up in the comics?

GREETINGS CAM <3333 THAT ART WAS SO CUTE

Yeah, I think your instincts are right - it's a truly adorable bit of transformative fandom, but I'm 95% percent sure it's not comics canon. Barbara has canon plushies, but I don't think anyone else does.

I got kinda invested in the investigation (it's hard to prove a negative!) and I ended up typing out an entire History of Elinore/Zitka, so, uh, if you're curious, meet me below the cut for:

Where does Elinore / Zitka - the animal - appear in comics?

Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?

Where does Elinore / Zitka appear in comics?

We're gonna go in chronological order!

Dick's circus elephant friend was first created for practical reasons: in Batman 436, Marv Wolfman does a big expanded flashback to Dick's circus backstory as a way to subtly show us Tim before officially introducing him (so that we can have a technically-solvable mystery-of-Tim's-identity in LPoD). In this comic, there's an elephant named Elinore who loves Dick:

Aww. Such a cute elephant!

Batman 436 comes out in August 1989. New Titans 60 comes out a few months later, in November, and guess what? When Dick visits the circus, he is suddenly surprised by an unexpected blast from the past! It turns out that even though it's been years, Elinore still remembers him!

Here's the part where Elinore remembers Dick:

SUCH a cute elephant. I love her.

(Guess who else still remembers Dick even though it was so long ago. Guess which other character is about to be an unexpected blast from the past. Guess which character Elinore is directly paralleling guess guess guess sorry everything is about Dick and Tim in my mind but I can focus I swear)

Four years later, in 1993, Batman: The Animated Series retells Dick's origin story. They like and keep Wolfman's elephant, but they change her name to Zitka:

Wolfman doesn't return to the elephant beyond those two appearances, and a few years down the line, New Titans gets cancelled and Wolfman's not writing Dick anymore anyway. So the animal gets abandoned for a while, until Devin Grayson, a fan of both Wolfman and B:tAS, revives the Wolfman-era Titans team in JLA/Titans and then the ongoing series Titans 1999.

Grayson then brings back the elephant in a flashback to Dick's past in Titans 16 (Jun 2000), where she imports the B:tAS name. Sometimes I'm skeptical of TV-to-comics imports, but honestly, I endorse this one. You lose the alliteration, which is a shame, but IMO Zitka is a better elephant name than Elinore.

Here's Dick with the newly-christened Zitka in Titans 16:

Grayson also briefly references the elephant in Gotham Knights 20 and - in a final angsty callback - in Nightwing 88 (Feb 2004), where Zitka tries futilely to comfort Dick in the midst of his trauma conga line:

... And... honestly, I think that's it for comic appearances? The two Wolfman comics plus the three Grayson comics.

Both Wolfman and Grayson are writing multiple titles - Batman, New Titans, Titans, Gotham Knights, and Nightwing between the two of them, spanning a big chunk of Dick's post-Crisis canon - and both writers use the elephant for heartwarming moments of nostalgia, which means if you're doing a post-Crisis readthrough for Dick, Elinore/Zitka feels memorable. But I don't think she actually shows up that much.

For post-2011, I am not as well-informed - throwing this out to the dash? anyone know? - but I feel like Zitka the heartwarming symbol of Dick's heartwarming circus past is, uh, thematically very at odds with the Court of Owls evil!circus vibes, so my instinct is that this story element was almost certainly dropped in the reboot.

Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?

In WFA, yes; in main comics continuity, no. Technically, I have not read every comic ever published, so I could be wrong!! But I don't think so.

Below, find my rambling reasoning on the tonal vibes of pre-Crisis, post-Crisis, and post-2011, and why this particular story element doesn't seem right to me for the first two.

Pre-Crisis (...okay, mostly the Silver Age): stuffed animal, yes or no?

tl;dr no, requires too much background knowledge on the part of the reader, plus the elephant wasn't a thing until later

Elinore doesn't get created until post-Crisis, but also just generally, pre-Crisis callbacks are more along the lines of this reference in Batman 129 (published in 1960), where, wow, Batman and Robin are hunting jewel thieves - and it turns out Robin recognized this strongman! BUT HOW?!

The comic goes on to recap Dick's entire origin story in flashback, on the assumption that you may not know it.

(BTW, if you'd like to know more about Haly's Circus throughout the years, nightwingology has a great post here summarizing a lot of fun plotlines and characters!)

Basically: Silver Age comics are very self-consciously episodic and kid-friendly; they're not generally gonna do overly-elaborate callbacks because they don't know what comics their kid readers may have randomly picked up or remember.

By the time of post-Crisis, comic books were being written for an adult audience buying from the direct market, i.e. readers who are collecting whole runs & don't need or want Dick's origin story to be recapped to us in full every time it's referenced. That's why in post-Crisis, we get stuff like "hey, neat, this particular soda brand is getting mentioned in several different books!!" or "in order to understand this story arc, buy SIXTEEN DIFFERENT COMICS in FIVE DIFFERENT RUNS and read them ALL ACCORDING TO A NUMBERED ORDER and also you better be following the individual plotlines and recognize these five minor characters who we don't bother to introduce!! Good luck!!" But the elaborate post-Crisis plotlines - and subtler worldbuilding like a stuffed animal callback to Dick's backstory - don't make a lot of story sense UNLESS you're imagining your readers as completionist adult fans.

So IMO a stuffed animal wouldn't be a pre-Crisis thing unless it was The Episodic Story Of the Week, and I don't think a stuffed animal is action-adventure-y enough for the fast-paced storytelling of the Silver Age. (Unless it, like, came to life and tried to eat you or something.)

Post-Crisis: stuffed animals, yes or no?

tl;dr: no, Dick's a manly tough guy, he's not gonna have a stuffed animal, that'd be lame, like something Tim might do

Part of the edgy grimdark adult vibes in 80s/90s comics is that some characters who used to be kinda silly & goofy & lighthearted - like Batman and Robin - get reimagined as Serious and Angsty and Edgy in a Tough Cool Manly Brooding Way. This massively affects characterization for Bruce, Dick, and Bruce and Dick's relationship.

(I obviously love this change & love the tense Bruce-and-Dick interactions, but plenty of fans of the earlier fluffy comics really disliked the edgy retcons of Miller / Wolfman / Starlin / et al.)

The upshot is that post-Crisis is a period when you could have a recurring reference like a stuffed elephant, but you wouldn't have a stuffed elephant, not for Dick. I think a toy like that would be too cutesy / childish / effeminate to give a male character in post-Crisis, unless you were poking fun at him.

Now, you could probably let Tim have a stuffed animal, because Tim is sometimes cool but also sometimes a tryhard loser who is faking being cool and not entirely pulling it off (see e.g. the Robin comic where he practices tough-guy faces in the mirror, or the Teen Titans comic where Conner discovers his cringy Enya CD, or when he's fanboying over Connor and it's awkward, etc etc.). A stuffed animal would be deeply embarrassing, and you'd have to be careful to compensate by having Tim do something cool afterward - but Tim's character concept allows for "he's kind of a loser sometimes."

But Dick isn't!! In post-Crisis, Dick's a tough / impressive / "cool guy" character, the kind of guy anyone would want to be, even in the flashbacks where he's Robin, and even in the stories where he's more lighthearted than angsty. It'd be kinda lame for Dick to have a stuffed elephant, so he wouldn't. I feel like Dick would be more likely to poke fun at it if someone had one, like when he's making fun of Wally for liking the Hardy Boys. Dick could have a Batman action figure, at most, and if he had one he would have it ironically.

Basically: in post-Crisis, a male character hugging a stuffed elephant feels more likely to be a punchline to me, not something poignant. (Even with Tim, Tim could have an embarrassing stuffed animal, but he couldn't hug it when sad - that's too far. Maybe Booster Gold might do this. Probably he wouldn't, but spiritually, he would. Sorry Booster ilu! <3)

Instead, Dick instinctively deals with his inner turmoil like the TORTURED ACTION HERO he is: by punching things and brooding and yelling and joining the mob and sleeping on rooftops and going on obsessive secret missions and acquiring Angsty Stubble!! Just like Batman!

(Technically I don't know if Bruce ever joined the mob but you know he would.)

Anyway as you know this is my favorite continuity and I am poking fun affectionately, but uh, yeah sdfsfdsfs. No stuffed animals.

Post-2011 / Infinite Frontier / Wayne Family Adventures: stuffed animals, yes or no?

tl;dr it's in WFA! Probably not anywhere else, but it could be.

Post-2011 stuff tends to be cutesier overall, most of all in the current Infinite Frontier era. So I don't feel like this would be tonally out-of-line with IF comics. Taylor tends to go for more meme-y references rather than fanfic references, though.

So the obvious best fit is WFA, which is aiming for a rough approximation of Silver Age family-friendly vibes - wholesome, episodic plots, Teaching Good Moral Lessons For The Youth, etc. - plus lots of Easter eggs for fanfic readers and some comic references.

And look, here we are:

Aww.

Whew - that's everything I could find!

Anyway as you can probably tell, I LOVE the elephant, so this was a very entertaining rabbit hole to go down, thank you <3

[reginamillls]

I think the deleted scene is simply showing you how much Buck is cared for by the people he chose to be in his life, and from someone who craved that care and attention for so long I just think that's neat that Buck has so many people now that do, and idk I'm just happy for him

[lucienne-thee-librarian]

Just to minimize my chances of being genuinely misunderstood OR deliberately misinterpreted, and crucified for something I don't think, How Dare You Say We Piss on the Poor website etc...I'm gonna say this right up top. I absolutely understand why people don't like Thessaly as a character, if anyone does completely unironically stan her as some kind of feminist hero who Did Nothing Wrong uwu, I personally see it as a bit of a red flag. I don't like terfs real or fictional. In a vacuum, I could even completely sympathize and agree with the people who want her cut.

HOWEVER.

It's really something to me to see people clamoring for her to be cut, because she carries and expressed an ugly indefensible prejudice (transphobia) in words towards (1) person. Meanwhile Hob fucking Gadling enacted one of the most violent forms of antiblack racism I can even think of against thousands no, millions of people, the ripple effects of which still affect billions more today. Just a little light idk, profiting off the fucking slave trade and had to be told by someone else that it was bad...and he's a fan favorite.

People are saying Thessally being Dream's love interest reflects badly on him or is somehow endorsement by the narrative (?!?!?!?!?!? Didn't she (SPOILER ALERT AS IF IT MATTERS BY NOW) help participate in his extended assisted suicide? She's not painted as a great person to me just another character what are y'all SMOKING whatever fine. It's fine this is fine.) But shipping Dream with Mr. Former Slaver is not only not verboten or frowned on widely in the fandom but its THEE most popular pairing by far. So...why the difference?

Like where are the same fans who are saying Thessaly shouldn't just be more clearly shown to be wrong, she shouldn't even be in the show at all when it comes to Hobert's crimes??? Yes, transphobia is indefensible. Isn't racism?

And I hear the cries of "it's fiction!!!" Already rallying (if anyone who needs to hear this even sees it lol) to which I say:

HORSESHIT. I KNOW you don't, deep down, really agree because if you did, why get upset about Thessaly being included??? Why does what she said to one person matter if it's Just Fiction You Guyze. Fictional characters are allowed to do bad things and fiction isn't reality sweaty....except when you only apply that standard to fictional racists you like and simp for, but fictional transphobes you don't are SO HARMFUL they shouldn't even be portrayed in fiction.

Like. Give me a big fat BREAK. This looks like bullshit, no? I'm sorry, but I'd love for someone to try and give any other explanation besides one personally offended you or hit home for you, and the other doesn't.

And if that bothers you or you feel like it says something negative about you...idk what you want me to say??? You can't control how other people perceive you and that's how people outside this majority-of-the-fandom bubble see it. You don't need to respond, I just wish and genuinely hope this gives you a moment to think about why fans who ARE bothered by both (and not just paying lip service to being bothered by the one but railing against the other) are so frustrated with people saying everyone is welcome but in practice only bending over backwards for the comfort and emotions of themselves, and people they can easily relate to.

You don't have to like Thessaly (I don't. I find her an interesting antagonist, I don't stan her. And frankly imo likability is not. the point of her character) but you'll pardon me for feeling more than a bit cynical and side eying people's motivations for what seems a...pretty obvious double standard, on what fictional crimes related to real world issues matter to y'all, and which clearly don't. Either actually bring the same energy to the table for fictional people who committed atrocities, even if against a group you're not part of and thus don't feel the need to empathize with, or just carry on, but accept that you don't have the SLIGHTEST room to talk about cutting characters who do immoral things. And you also need to accept that you look like a hypocrite when you do.

[thelaurenshippen]

genuinely think it's good and healthy to follow at least one person in each of your fandoms who reblogs good gifsets but has just...absolutely dogshit takes on the show, or who ships that ship you despise. keeps things fresh. keeps things grounded. you gotta stay humble

[the-way-astray]

alright everybody can we please stop tagging me/talking about me in the notes of pro keefe/sokeefe posts. i know strieefe has made it so that it's really funny to talk about how much i love him and how much i'm in denial when i say negative things about him under those posts (and that's all in good fun and not the problem), but we have to think about the fact that the ops are just trying to make a positive post and probably don't want a keefe hater in their notes /srs

[favvn]

New day, new post about Billiam Shatner that makes me want to scream. I really feel like too many of you are all so committed to viewing him in the worst possible light that you can't even comprehend an interview response for what it is without first assuming the worst (and bringing in the specter of his tweets to boot!) and then missing the other half of the interview segment, so you push the same out-of-context telephone game even further and double-down on your preconceived notions of a person a result. And make no mistake, a lot of the history surrounding Star Trek: The Original Series is a game of telephone. So much of it is in oral format and left to memory, so if something sticks in the collective sphere of public opinion, it stays forever and it makes it impossible to definitively know the truth behind these stories. But I'm going to try to put things into words again instead of just getting angry and I'm probably look nuts doing it because I get it: An awful lot of you hate Shatner because you have a specific image of him in your minds, but this is my corner of the internet and I want to don my clown wig and clown nose today. (I was neutral about Shatner once upon a time, but seeing the continued fandom response to him, fine. I'm a Shatner fan. (Also watching him in Roger Corman's The Intruder was one hell of a way to see the full scale of his acting abilities. There's a reason why he was cast as the lead role on Star Trek although Nimoy clearly eclipsed him, and if you believe he isn't acting on Star Trek, at least try to watch his pre-Star Trek work such as his Twilight Zone episodes and The Intruder to understand how he immediately got the starring role.) I'll dig into the details because there is always something being overlooked for the narrative that is being crafted.)

What follows is possibly a too-detailed dive into that much-memed Bill Boggs interview clip. I have provided both the specific clip and a transcript of it below, with plenty of my rambling in between :)

Necessary context: This interview was given in conjunction with the release of Star Trek: The Motion Picture and the novel tie-in in 1979. Also at this point, Shatner had his first book come out Shatner: Where No Man... which he also promotes during this interview. This interview is very much the result of standard publicity to generate interest for upcoming projects (or in the case of Shatner's book, something that was already out), so pieces of it followed a script of pre-approved questions and the pre-written responses. This is not to say this entire interview is a farce or that Shatner stuck to a script, but it is very much standard practice for questions to be known ahead of time by the interviewee (it makes for a better interview for the person to come prepared), especially when it is part of a larger amount of publicity for a film so that nothing controversial is said that could damage the studio in the eyes of its sponsors and investors.

Fans of Star Trek were in the audience and asked questions by the latter half of this interview, and while Shatner's response after first being introduced to them in the beginning was a little awkward as he tried to get his phrasing out, he was very courteous and kind with his words to them, thanking them for their support and their genuine interest in the series and the people involved in making it (which hardly comes as any surprise. Do you really think he went on a talk show to be rude to fans in the audience? Do you think Paramount or Roddenberry would have allowed that?). It wasn't until 1986 that he appeared in a SNL sketch and told the assembled group of actors portraying fans at a convention to "get a life," a skit that was scripted for a comedy show and penned by the writers for the show, that Shatner found hilarious despite reservations about how Roddenberry himself may respond to it. This was not Shatner climbing to the podium at a real convention and yelling at regular people, and the later interview segment between Shatner and fans on Bill Boggs' talk show is hardly the same as that SNL skit, either. Shatner has had a tumultuous relationship to the fandom, but this is not the case in this interview at the time of 1979 (or, if it is, he kept a lid on it and kept it private).

Lastly, William Shatner, if you are at all familiar with him outside of acting, jokes around a lot (this is, quite possibly, a point of contention for a lot of people; some people can't stand someone always making everything into a joke because it seems like they take nothing seriously), and this interview is no different. Some of his jokes hit (audience laughter) and some stutter if not fail.

Boggs: This question comes from deep in the heart of fandom. Shatner: I thought you were going to say Texas. [Audience laughs] Boggs: No, the fandom. There are those Star Trek fans who have intimated a homosexual--a potential homosexual relationship between-- Shatner [Places his hand on Boggs' arm and gives him a knowing stare.] Boggs: Not us! Shatner: Oh! [removes hand] [Audience laughs] Boggs: No, between Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock, portrayed by Leonard Nimoy, so much that- that in fact that Gene Roddenberry in the novelization of Star Trek The Motion Picture puts an Editor's Note around the word that, uh, Spock uses which is-- Shatner: [Gives a very harsh pronunciation of T'hy'la making it sound like t'LAH, earning laughter from the audience] Boggs: Ty'La or something like that. Shatner: t'LAH Boggs: What is it? Shatner: t'LAH Boggs: Which could mean "lover" or something like that. This is my question: why do you think some fans see this potential relationship between Kirk and Spock? Shatner: Because they're-- Boggs: Let's have the straight talk here. Shatner: Because they're gay! [Audience laughs and applauds] Boggs: Well, that's it.

"They" could refer to Kirk and Spock as characters or to the fans seeing the characters as being in a homosexual relationship. It's not exactly clear which is the intended subject of the statement given who can be referred to by the word "they", and that ambiguity is the point of it. It isn't supposed to be clear but it is meant to be laughed at, not as a sign of homophobia, but as a softening of the idea presented. I feel like these days people keep forgetting that humor has been used and will continue to be used as a way of breaking tension in a conversation, and it's something that Shatner has done in the past and continues to do. Awkward lull? Crack a joke. The mood gets sour? Crack a joke. If you get people laughing, even if you say something they might not agree with or want to hear, they'll be in a better mood to hear it. My calling William Shatner "Billiam" is part joke. I want you to chuckle. I want you, the reader, to try and meet me halfway in what I'm saying because so many spaces in this fandom has seemingly made it clear: Shatner exists to get dunked on owing for the things he's tweeted (assuming he is the one running his twitter account which follows from a long tradition of hired managers for sns. Why is Shatner's an ass? I don't know. Who would benefit from getting hired by a man (if not his management team) who is now in his 90s?) and the reputation he has, whereas I can't get behind that attitude owing to the devil in the details (and the perhaps naive notion that people ought to be allowed to make mistakes and not have a perfect reputation, especially when reputations are not something that can be easily changed once they get set in the public perception).

On the one hand, let's assume "they" refers to the fans. The interview began with Boggs introducing Shatner to the audience and stating they were Star Trek fans. He knows the fandom is comprised of both women and men. Even before this interview he was aware of women in the fandom owing to the fan letters the cast recieved during the series' original run. The writing of his first memoir Shatner: Where No Man... co-authored by Sondra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath (the same writers behind The Price of the Phoenix series, yes, that series) also covered everything from working with two fans of the series to answering questions about women's enjoyment of the series. (The memoir's other subject matter from the co-authors aside; they brought Ayn Rand into it. If you happen to know what she had to say about sexual fantasies, it doesn't surprise me that he later tried to destroy the books. It's not the best image to cultivate, to put it lightly. As always, you get a mixed bag with Shatner and that hardly helps when people want perfect celebrities to look to). So it's not necessarily true, is it, to claim that the fans who see K/S are gay, especially when these fans are hardly publicly professing their orientations (as is their right to basic privacy)? Nor does it make complete sense for the audience to laugh so earnestly if the intended subject of the statement was to be the fans themselves. (Self-depreciating humor is a thing, and Shatner falls back on it a lot, but you really mean to tell me a talk show audience in 1979 are all openly queer?)

On the other hand, let's assume "they" refers to Kirk and Spock, which supports how it is immediately laughed at as a joke and how Shatner takes it further into another joke. Again, Shatner is hardly a stranger to this concept given the women who helped write his memoir, given the documented historical inspiration for Kirk and Spock (Alexander the Great and Hephaestion), given Shatner's own history of acting roles, notably being cast as Alexander the Great in a television pilot that never got picked up. (To say nothing of his own credits on the stage before television. You really want me to believe a stage actor cannot conceive of two characters being gay? Especially an actor like Shatner who would've killed as a guest star on Batman given his unflinching commitment to the bit and his use of campy acting within TOS?) He knows about the T'hy'la footnote prior to this interview owing to the press kit he would've been prepared with. He has had to discuss the implications of K/S with Gene Roddenberry and Leonard Nimoy in conjunction with that press kit. (Dare I even bring in Tom Hardy's infamous, "I'm an actor. Of course I've had gay sex" quote although it risks speculating on Shatner's sexual orientation?)

Ultimately, he says "Because they're gay!" to mean "because Kirk and Spock are gay" and says it as a joke, hence his next response that builds onto the joke:

Shatner: But, believe me-- Boggs: That's the reason. You heard it on this show. Shatner: Believe me. I've had to educate Leonard. [Everyone laughs]

Bonus points to you if you know what play and film Nimoy starred in prior to Star Trek. (I really hope that Shatner knew about this when he had this interview but it's hard to say given how Shatner's friendship with Nimoy began more as a professional rivalry during TOS and didn't really become a friendship until the 70s. Which, to read how Shatner describes it, is damned sad that he never really had a friend in life prior to Nimoy.)

Need I point out that Shatner made at least 3 gay jokes in a row? (The hand on Boggs' arm when he assumed Boggs was talking about them as a couple, the "Because they're gay!" and "I had to educate Leonard") This interview is a classic example of Shatner playing the field and offering every possible side. He really is a man of 1000 masks, the onion that defies peeling. There's a reason why his sexual orientation is still the subject of scrutiny to this day but why no one can definitively state it and it's because Shatner has mastered this nebulous, shifting image, and frankly, good for him. I feel like people forget that had Shatner chose to go to/stay in Hollywood (he did star in a few large film productions but stuck mostly to the fringes owing to the studio contract system), he would have been the contemporary of Rock Hudson and Tab Hunter, both actors who were upheld as the ideal heterosexual man despite both actors being closeted from the public. It truly does not cause me any wonder as to why Shatner does what he does in interviews. It offers a glimpse of openness and reality, but look too closely and has he revealed anything of himself? No, but you have scraps to try to piece together however you choose.

Shatner: Don't be ridiculous! Boggs: I wasn't. I'm saying this is from fandom. These are your fans. Shatner: I know but-- but-- but a beautiful girl is-- I mean, that's… fantastic, isn't it? I mean? Boggs: I've always thought so.

Shatner does seem to back-pedal away from this joke with the over-the-top incredulous, "Don't be ridiculous!" to negate his original statement. Yet he hardly sounds angry or upset as he says it. He's still smiling and laughing about the previous joke he set up, and his delivery reads more as a "Don't make me laugh!" when he literally just laughed. I realize I can't necessarily change anyone's mind, but this is actually not the end of his response to the question, because Boggs pushes past and gets him back on track. Shatner pulled his jokes but the question still stands and fans are waiting for an answer.

He then offers unprompted the comment about "a beautiful girl [...] that's fantastic," to further the deflection, yet he stutters an awful lot to get it out despite how easily he was talking earlier. If you've watched the full interview, his stuttering here mirrors his initial struggle to get his phrasing together when addressing the fans in the audience, which to me reads as a "off-script" moment. He set up the joke, had a good laugh, and is struggling to walk it back if not keep the laughter going. If this is his attempt to reassert his heterosexuality and masculinity, wow did it fail immediately, and this is coming from the man who had to dramatically read the preamble to the US Constitution as the penultimate scene to a Star Trek episode. (Can I say that The Omega Glory shows that Shatner is a great actor? To take a lackluster script but still give it 100%? To still take outlandish ideas but sell them and play it earnestly?)

One could argue that it looks like Shatner is trying to insert distance between himself as a person and the perceived sexuality of the character he plays--a character he has been typecast as at this point, in other words, a character that people so wholly associate him with, that is all they see him as. Typecasting is a death sentence for an actor's career if they can't manage to push past it, and this explains his tumultuous relationship to the fandom. Yeah, they catapulted him to an unknown degree of fame but at what cost? Nobody takes his abilities seriously now if all they've seen of Shatner is Captain Kirk. He used to do Shakespeare on rotation, famously filled Christopher Plummer's role one night at the last second, originated roles on Broadway, and now he's a joke at worst or the mouthpiece for a fictional character at best after 3 years in a sci-fi series, despite everything he did before it. I think that would drive anyone up a wall. (Need I mention how Leonard Nimoy famously wrote I Am Not Spock in response to the phenomenon of being typecast, limited to the role of Spock, and only being seen as Spock even long after the show ended and the ears were put away? Perhaps Nimoy handled it with more grace, but Star Trek created a whole phenomenon none of the cast was prepared for.)

(He later says in this interview that he played Kirk as if just acting as himself due to the harsh schedule of the show's production, going so far as to say there's no real difference between himself and Kirk (you sure you want to phrase it like that, Billiam?) His point is not that he really is Kirk but that he approached his character in a very casual, more improvisational way compared to Leonard Nimoy, who chose to develop his character as Spock early on at the very beginning of the show's production, but the pressure of maintaining Spock coupled with the intense schedule led to him drinking more and more and becoming an alcoholic; I mention this as a "this is how things went from Nimoy's side, and it worked but at what cost?" Does this make Shatner a lazy actor or does it show the differences between how he and Nimoy approach acting, namely that Shatner will improvise more whereas Nimoy will act after careful thought about the character (not unlike the Method form of acting)? To say nothing about how different their roles are, which only reinforces how they approached their work differently.)

But back to this interview clip. Shatner makes a big fuss about it being ridiculous in the same way he blurts, "Because they're gay!" Again, I can't change anyone's mind, but this reads as another joke to me given the overacted delivery and the way that he does not at all sound earnestly angry or offended. This is not a "Wah, my sexuality and masculinity is challenged! I must reassert how manly and straight I am!" especially as his later response in this same clip shows an earnest and measured calm to the notion of K/S and the pairing's fans. And it hardly reads as fear to be perceived as gay given he was leaning into the idea of a gay relationship between himself and Boggs and leaning into the idea of educating Nimoy on the matter of homosexuality earlier for a laugh. Basically, not all of Shatner's jokes land and this reads like one of his failed attempts at overacting for comedic effect, of baiting Boggs for a response for him to then further to react to, but Boggs did not fully take the bait so the joke crashed and burned.

And it's interesting that this response seemingly mirrors the same nebulous response as the T'hy'la footnote that was written so that it can be interpreted as both supporting K/S or showing that Kirk and Spock were just brothers-in-arms, coworkers, and straight friends. (Why alienate the fanbase? Why not keep things vague, toss crumbs that can support either side, and sit back for more profit?) Based on how messy portions of this interview is (these are not perfect answers but some responses are and reek of promotion material), I think it is safe to say that Shatner did not fully stay on any sort of scripted response for the question of K/S, but it does fall in line with the official "neither deny or blatantly support it" stance, which again stems from the idea of don't break up the fanbase and wreck your profits. Cater to both sides of the fandom, those who see K/S (lovers) and those who see K&S (friends).

Boggs: But the fans-- Why do you think the fans saw it that way? Was it all an illusion? Shatner: No, because a friendship between two men is so, uh, strange to American audiences. You know, I mean, men and women in Europe, for example, walk arm-in-arm and they're close friends. [re-enactment of a whispered, rushed conversation] And they're holding each other.

It's easy to assume this response is about a man and a woman walking and talking closely together given his later phrasing, but his point is that two men and two women will be physically close to one another as friends in various European countries in a way that doesn't happen in the US. Take for example the cheek kissing way of greeting that is popular in Southern Europe. That's not common in the US even now and it certainly wasn't 50 years ago, although we understand it as a cultural difference. Likewise, Shatner is pointing out the key cultural differences in what degree of emotional and physical closeness is allowed between the genders before it is speculated to be a sign of one's sexual orientation (Anyone familiar with Gay or European from Legally Blonde the musical? That's it in joke and song form). Ultimately, this is still a negation of K/S, but it is respectful in its phrasing. He doesn't call the fans delusional for seeing it, although that was an option he could have taken given Boggs' phrasing. He points out that Kirk and Spock's relationship is out of the norm for the male relationships seen in the US and its media of the era, so it is easily seen as gay. (Need I bring up the Hays Code and how to depict homosexuality was to be censored for showing a perversion, and that Star Trek was made in light of the code's decades-long influence on the film industry and television to a lesser extent? That the decriminalization of sodomy in the US slowly began in the early 60s as Star Trek was being produced? These background details impacted the show and still would impact the film.)

Boggs: You and I do that down 5th Avenue, we're gonna hit every column in the world. Shatner: Different mid-day show. It'd be a mid-life show.

Billiam. Two more jokes? I'd be in tears in the audience. The man knows damn well what he is doing, and again this is why I take issue with the idea that he was appalled about K/S or how his own sexuality appears to strangers. Why keep cracking gay jokes then? You mean to tell me this isn't a sign of someone being comfortable in their sexual orientation, just because it is Shatner telling these jokes?

Boggs: So you just think that's part of their reading something into it? There's no evidence in the script or in your performances that supports that? Shatner: Well, none in hand. Boggs: "None in hand." Alright.

Shatner doesn't respond to the first question but responds to the second. In hand as an idiom can mean "controlled by someone in a position of authority" or "being worked on or dealt with now." Shatner ends this segment with another joke by negating this idiom and it flies over everyone's head. While it does technically mean that yes, in this interview, he even agrees that he did not do anything explicit to portray Kirk as gay and that there was nothing explicit in the script itself--nothing from the authorities that be on the production and writing teams. But keep the negated idiom in mind: nothing being worked on now or controlled by an authority. It is an open response that says, "This was not intended, but I'm not denying the interpretation" again in the same why the T'hy'la footnote was written to neither explicitly confirm nor explicitly deny. (I would say this doubles as a pun but Shatner missed his opportunity by not phrasing his earlier response as "they walk hand-in-hand together;" yes, word choice matters for puns because it is a play on words and missing the right words will kill the joke.)

This is the full context of the "Because they're gay!" clip. It is two parts joke (because it's Shatner; if you wanted only/mostly earnestness, watch a Nimoy interview because it's been well-documented that Shatner is a clown! The man is great with humor! But his reputation claims otherwise somehow), one part earnest, and it is not as clear-cut as most would like it to be. He does not explicitly deride the fans for shipping K/S at all, despite multiple opportunities to do so. He offers a serious and honest response to the question after making his jokes. I understand that many want to look towards his tweets (which still gets into that issue of who exactly does the tweeting; how much is Shatner, how much is the troll of a sns manager because I am still of the mind that it is a combination but I am not combing through them to find support for this theory; I may be insane but even I have my limits) as an example for why he doesn't support K/S (despite his tweets that do, in fact, support the fans who ship K/S) because he famously tweeted that Kirk is not Bi because he wasn't written to be Bi rather than simply supporting a fan headcanon, but once more this is continuing an image that does not have a basis in reality simply because it is "fun" to dunk on Billiam Shatner.

[monsterfuckermilligan]

i am not anti sam but i sometimes find myself hating sam because some samgirls are super into bio/gender essentialism whether or not they realize it. sam is a woman and dean is a man and sam is the victim and dean is his abuser like what show are you watching?

[todayisafridaynight]

i’m pretty surprised that you can be in a fandom without really checking the tags regularly for new content or discussions that’s pretty impressive

ive got twitter for that and twitter has shown me enough as is

[evilkitten3]

one thing i really don't like about uh i guess we can call it "fandom culture" is when there's a character who's done fucked up things but instead of dealing with that their fans just. push the blame onto someone else.

it's just. boring

[torgawl]

unpopular opinion but a ship being queer coded doesn't make it compelling

[reikunrei]

tbh i will forever be thinking abt the little happy wiggle Mike did in the pizzeria when El was like “i... missed you” that shit was SO CUTE