#do I make these about all the aftg characters bc I have many thoughts

[vannyinthestars]

Songs Jeremy Knox unironically enjoys (that fit the canon timeline), a collection:

- Note that I headcanon these as his guilty pleasure songs. Personally think he listens to more rock most of the time like Nickelback (it was 2006…)

[afurtivecake]

hate that kevriko is a rarepair, i really feel like so many of their interactions are so juicy and full of worthwhile discussions that for some reason nobody wants to indulge

i def think that rikos anger at jean was less bc of him LOOKING at kevin and more so that he was looking at KEVIN

anyway if you have thoughts and feelings to share, pls do

thank you for this ask<3 also you're so right. we don't talk about kevriko as a ship enough when there's a lot to think about there. (i am guilty of this too)

the interesting thing about kevriko is that they're almost exactly like the kind queerbaiting couple you'd have seen in late 2000's media. (1) there were so many shows with characters that had an undeniably deep and intimate connection with each other that was also really fucked-up and we, the audience, were expected to believe these were the actions of fully heterosexual men who, at best, hated each other. yeah, that's what nora has effectively created with kevriko.

i'm not saying kevriko is intentional queerbaiting; i just mean the ambiguous and open-ended nature of their relationship lends itself well to speculations about what they really felt for each other.

i'm guessing people don't ship kevriko much because it is very much a toxic and abusive relationship made worse by the horrible environment they were living in. i think there is a lot of reluctance to engage with the topic of textual abusive queer relationships. i think people are drawn to the idea of nice, healthy, wholesome queer relationships in media and shy away from ships that can't fit into that mold. which is interesting because that's not at all different from how the general public treated people who shipped those kinds of canonically straight characters with antagonistic, homoerotic relationships back then. there was always this sense of like, "why would you want to ship that when there are all these other better ships available?" why would you want to imagine a gay relationship when it's so bad and toxic when there are other more socially acceptable ships available? only real difference is that, back then "socially acceptable" strongly meant "straight". i guess what i'm saying is that it feels like people would rather kevin and riko be straight and not at all emotionally attached because that would make their relationship straightforward and palatable. it would frame them as captor and prisoner longing for escape, rather than something horrible and ugly and uncomfortably involved.

but ok let's just talk about the elephant in the room: was riko obsessively in love with kevin and repressing it?

yeah. probably. yes. in tgr, it's pretty clear that riko was insanely possessive of kevin and responded jealously whenever another man dared to get close to kevin. "but was it love?" i hear people ask. or was it selfishness, obsession, and codependency? does it really matter what you call it? it amounts to the same thing in the end.

if we can accept that andreil's relationship doesn't fit into the traditional mold of "romantic relationship" but is still intimate and loving nonetheless, then we should be able to accept that kevriko doesn't fit into the traditional mold of "abusive romantic relationship" but is nonetheless, built around emotional involvement and intimate partner abuse.

lots of works show these same aspects of an abusive relationship, but what aftg does that feels different is that it puts focus on the "relationship" aspect. simply put, aftg doesn't try to eliminate the emotional attachment kevin and riko have to each other in order paint a more stark line between victim and abuser as if attempting to signal to the audience the writer knows this relationship is Bad and Irredeemable. aftg acknowledges that being in an abusive relationship requires a heavy emotional investment on both sides.

it took emotional investment for riko to hold kevin that close and it took emotional investment for kevin to choose to stay for as long as he did. yes, there is also an element of one party having the power to enforce a relationship on their terms. but if it were as simple as seeing the power balance imbalance and thinking, "i don't have to put up with this shit anymore!" like an employee quitting their shitty job and shitty boss, then beating riko and the ravens in the finals would have fixed kevin. and we can see in tgr that it very much has not. there isn't an absence of feeling in abusive relationships. there isn't an absence of desire to be together. that's what makes extricating oneself from the them so hard.

riko was undoubtedly deeply attached to kevin and built all his future dreams around the idea that kevin would be at his side exactly where he wants him to be. he could not let go of kevin even after kevin left and he continued to act as if kevin was going to come back to him as soon as he destroyed the foxes and everything would be back on track. in a similar way, kevin has trouble letting go of riko after riko dies. we see him in tgr still pursuing excellence (exy-llence?) and fixating hard on the dream of playing in the olympics as if he's determined to carry him and riko's dream to the finish line on his own - to prove that he could do what riko could never could, alone. denying the awful emotional aspect of kevin and riko's relationship ignores the fact that being together fucked them up and that kevin is still left trying to disentangle himself from that mess.

(1) the example that springs to mind is Heroes. does anyone remember the show Heroes? sylar/mohinder, you'll always be famous to me. basically, sylar is a serial killer who is able to steal the superpower of the people he kills and mohinder is the researcher studying superpowers and this serial killer. there's one insane scene where sylar calls mohinder in distress and says shakily, "i think i did something bad," and mohinder, without missing a beat, shoots back, "you're a serial killer; you don't get the benefit of the doubt." and then there's a bit of back and forth where sylar is pleading with mohinder to just help him somehow because mohinder is the only one he can trust. and we were supposed to believe those two were heterosexual men who did not like each other at all. yeah that's how bad queerbaiting was back then.

[4phr0d17e]

ok now that ive finished it heres my tgr thoughts

ok lets start with the bits i loved:

i almost screamed when we saw andrew and kevin on page and the fact that neil didnt tell either of them he was going to california AND that they instantly knew that he was behind graysons death. DELICIOUS. tbh every time any of the foxes were on page i was smiling so big

the ravens getting suspended so early??? INSANE choice that i dont think any of us saw coming, like in the last 10 years of fic we always had a crazy trojans-ravens rematch. i cant deny i was dying to see the trojans wipe the floor with the ravens like they deserve to but at least this way jean never has to visit evermore again😍😍😍 that whole scene was truly incredible though like dan tackling someone to protect kevin??? the fact it took multiple people to pull andrew off the raven who hurt neil???? the fact that matt and aaron INSTANTLY went for the ravens who attacked andrew??? NEILS BROKEN RIBS??? that last part is 100% gonna come up again, idr who knows about it but as soon as one of the trojans connects jeans broken ribs to neils theyre gonna know exactly how jean was injured

also the scene with jean having his breakdown in front of rhemann almost brought me to tears ... "fathers" 😭😭😭

OHHHH how could i forget, when jean throws bryson into lailas car!!!!!! what a fucking MOMENT jean moreau u will always be famous. and in the same vein the game where he says to his mark in french "you should be glad they have be on a leash" LOVE IT. character capable of insane violence just barely being held in check MWAH

and then the bit where hes teaching the freshman drills and he automatically raises his hand to strike them and then just bolts in the opposite direction😭😭 jean my baby i would love to know what was going on in his head at that point

its also very interesting how neils plan of "tell the fbi abt his father but nothing about the moriyamas" seems to be .... disintegrating ... the fact that so many outsiders are aware of something being super sus, what was that line? something like "how come two major crime lords got their sons into class 1 exy?" my prediction for book 3 is another ichirou appearance. idk what the fuck hes gonna do but hes gonna do something im so sure of it

this was only briefly touched on but jean getting to play without being injured .. my personal headcanon has always been that even though jean is already an incredible player hes actually better than anyone could have imagined bc hes always had to play through injuries, and that when he fully recovers hes simply unbeatable

also the whole "exy is not fun" exchange was so interesting ... makes me wonder if somehow jean will get a future where he doesnt have to play exy ......

ok now to my critiques. disclaimer that all of this is said with love and i will follow noras characters to the end of the fucking earth

but WHAT is up with the pacing?? in the original trilogy each book took place over ~3 months or so but in 2 books we havent even gotten to halloween?? how will we make it to finals in the last book??? either the last book will be a chonker or we will finally start getting small timeskips, tbh tho both are good options

i wanted so much more exy than we got, the practise scenes were amazing with jean doing his whole "just call me and you will recieve the ball exactly how you need it" AMAZING SHOWSTOPPING INCREDIBLE but then during the games the pov is so checked out .. i understand the narration will never be the same as neils but like, during the second on page game it wasnt even stated who was winning until the end???? i ws literally reading like COME ON GUYS PAY ATTENTION PLS

also this isnt a big deal but i cant be the only one who noticed the epithets💀 "the frenchman" "the grey-eyed backliner" nora come off ittttt just say his name!!!!!!!

anyway in conclusion: cannot wait for book 3. thank u nora for my life. if any of my aftg mutuals want to hop in my dms PLS feel free im clawing the walls over here

[karmacharmeleon18]

different anon, but wow I also super agree with your kevin takes! i can’t believe you’re getting so much hate over it….i wanted to ask if you felt like there was any other path for kevin in the new trilogy, bc while what he did to jean pmo, i also can’t imagine him doing anything else. on one hand, he left jean to suffer kevin’s own consequences (in part) by leaving him, but also jean even admits he would never have let kevin leave, thus kevin wouldn’t have been able to get his revenge and freedom. it’s the same issue over and over again—why is kevin allowed such selfishness and isn’t as punished or criticized by the fandom (maybe even the narrative? i can only hope the final book actually does something with kevin, since unlike many i doubt we’re getting another book after tsc3)? do you think it’ll be addressed? Nora’s addressing of jean’s trauma seems well crafted enough to suggest that kevin and thea’s callousness would also be addressed. kevin still clearly cares about jean, but its not enough, i think, for not only the betrayal (which is nuanced and very sad) but the continued attitude he has towards him afterwards! kevin will do stuff that shows he cares for his “friends” or whatnot, but this stuff could also clearly be seen as self centered and watered down by his constant insults. he’s an interesting character for sure, but oh wow do i understand jean’s love-hatred of him from his POV. he’s an asshole who feels like he’ll never heal or grow emotionally from the ravens and riko, which is a very unsatisfying and upsetting thing to see from such a crucial character in the series. but i also don’t know how he would move one without losing his ego, which is probably the only thing really keeping him alive now that his revenge has been fulfilled?

sorry if this was repetitive to what you’ve said before or long! love your analysis/thoughts. :)

You know, anon, the og characters being different in this new trilogy was actually a fear of mine. It’s been 10 years since AFTG and I thought, Nora can’t be the same writer she was 10 years ago, and what if she’s changed her mind about this or that character? What if she uses the new books to retcon the old ones? What if I can’t recognize these characters???

But thankfully I could. Thankfully Nora is a very consistent writer and she has not changed her mind about anyone (save for Jean and Jeremy lol).

So taking all of this into account, no, I didn’t expect Kevin to act any differently. irl it’s been 10 years but in-universe it’s been no time at all from TKM. Kevin Day is Kevin Day and at this point it’s pointless to hope for change lmao

To be completely honest, I don’t think it’ll ever be properly addressed. Kevin is allowed to be selfish, and callous, and condescending because he’s Kevin, simple as that. The narrative, the characters have accepted that a long time ago. And most of the fandom has too. Those of us who have a problem with it are destined to suffer lol

Maybe Jean will confront him in the last book, but honestly? It will go in one ear and out the other.

Kevin might “care” for Jean in his own way, but he doesn’t care enough to change his behavior. And I think Jean knows that.

Jean also doesn’t care for apologies, an “I’m sorry” will not change the past. Maybe the Trojans have changed his mind about that, maybe not. Realistically it’s far too soon for such a change.

But what Kevin could do is apologize for his recent/current behavior. Maybe that would give Jean some satisfaction in the moment, it would make him feel vindicated to see and hear Kevin Day admit he is wrong. But after that initial reaction, nothing will have changed.

The best way to take accountability is to change your behavior. And Kevin never will. Because he’s Kevin Day.

Jean can’t hold Kevin accountable because Kevin doesn’t care about him enough.

So who could hold Kevin accountable? What would accountability look like?

Nora said Kevin doesn’t have friends, Thea is the closest thing to one he has. But even with her, he was willing to completely shut her out of his life when he left Evermore. Besides, him and Thea are far too similar for her to be the catalyst for a change of conscience. The only time Thea will ever call him out is when Kevin is thinking too much like a victim: Thea doesn’t tolerate that and pretty much tells him to get over his trauma. The same way Kevin expects everyone else to get over their trauma and just focus on the damn game.

Kevin and Thea will never hold each other accountable for their callousness, their selfishness, their disregard for the feelings of others.

At the end of the day, the only things Kevin truly cares about are Exy and… himself, which by extension means his public persona, the way people see him.

So, what would accountability look like for Kevin Day? Some sort of public reckoning? Ex Ravens coming out and telling the media what really went down in the Nest and the role Kevin played in the hierarchy? How he was the prince, the future legend, the little god of Castle Evermore, as Nora said in the EC. How he was above the general abuse, the suffering all around him, how he only had to answer to the Master and the King, and he had long learned how to keep them calm and himself safe. And how, when it all came to a head, he used the memory of his old, dead friendship with Jean against him, guiltripped him into distracting the monster so that he could escape. How he left Jean to be tortured to death.

But I don’t think it’ll happen, because the shockwaves of that would be monumental for the sport, the hero falling from grace again. And having that happen in the last book of the series simply can’t do it justice. If it did happen though, that would be the narrative holding Kevin accountable.

The alternative would be Kevin himself calling a press conference, of his own volition, and admitting to all of this. That would be a great way to take accountability: acknowledge what happened, what role you played in it, how fucked up it was. That would be Kevin holding himself accountable.

But that’s never going to happen either.

Because that would destroy his ego, and as you said, that might be the only thing he has left.

He is Kevin Day the Son of Exy, the future of the sport, a legend in the making, the hero that led the Foxes to win the Championship against the Ravens, the martyr that sacrificed his childhood for a chance to be Court one day… and he can’t be seen as anything else. It might kill him.

Waymack is possibly the only person with a concrete chance to get through to Kevin, to make him fully realize how much of an insensitive asshole he is to everyone around him and how that’s not fucking ok. But Waymack loves Kevin too much, like he loves all of his Foxes too much. He might give them advice, nudge them in the right direction, but I don’t think he’ll ever directly challenge them. Maybe some of the Foxes. But with someone like Kevin (or Andrew) it would go sideways really fast. Better to just let them do their thing and keep the peace. He lets the Foxes drink and fuck around with court-mandated meds, he provides Kevin with alcohol to use as an emotional crutch. It’s honestly a small miracle how none of the Foxes have died because of their own actions (Seth included since we all know he was murdered). David Waymack is a great character, but I’m not sure he’s a great coach lol until Neil showed up, the Foxes were an absolute dumpster fire. Neil had to meddle, get in everyone’s business to get them to cooperate. But we all know such behavior is “above pay grade” for Coach. So I don’t think that’s a possibility.

Besides, the Foxes’ story is over. This is Jean’s story. Any type of reckoning for Kevin must come from his side, Jeremy’s side, the Trojan’s side. And I don’t think it’ll happen.

It’d be nice to see Jeremy, Captain Sunshine of all people, call Kevin a bastard, because we know how much Kevin cares about his opinion. But idk that seems unrealistic. And it would sound too much like Jeremy fighting Jean’s battles for him, which I don’t like.

Kevin will never truly heal, he will always be a Raven. Like Thea will always be a Raven. They are the worst possible thing for each other. But at the same time, they can’t be with anyone else. Thea will never let Kevin heal and recover from being a Raven, but she is also the only person Kevin can be with.

From the EC we know that for Kevin the grueling practices, the 16h days, the abuse, the torture Jean suffered, were all part of the deal. He accepted those conditions because in return he would get the Perfect Court. And all the Ravens (Thea) believe the same.

But his hand was not part of the deal. That’s the one and only thing that made Kevin want to leave.

Had that not happened, he and Thea would almost be the exact same person, Raven apologists through and through, callous, condescending, solely focused on Exy to the point that if someone gets hurt, their first and only thought is “When can they play again?”

And if you don’t like it, that’s your problem.

So the best possible thing we can do going into the next book is to expect absolutely nothing lol

I hope this made sense, anon. To me it looks like a whole lot of rambling nothing, but maybe you can make some sense of it 🤦🏾‍♀️

[meyhew]

so. what did you think about TGR? as a book and in the context of the tsc trilogy. 🎤🎤 the world wants to know

i have yet to actually articulate my thoughts so i guess this is my official Review hehe. i’ve seen a few people say that a good chunk of it drags and they would shave off a decent portion; i can only somewhat agree a teeny tiny bit with the first part. there are times when it might feel like it’s dragging because it’s so character driven. coming from aftg i can understand why some might feel that way. things are always happening to neil and to the foxes. there are so many external forces at play—riko, drake, nathan, the mf fbi. maneuvering around them for exy is the story. neil trying to survive is the story. this second trilogy isn’t about survival; jean has already survived. a story about healing is going to be slower. and honestly i don’t see how any of this could be shaved off or included in b1 or saved for b3. as much exposition as nora gives is unconventional, sure, but it’s not bad. it’s necessary.

we unlock jeremy’s backstory—or at least a fair chunk of it. he’s such an avoidant mf of course it’ll take us time to know what’s going on in his head (which. hello????? your little brother’s suicide looms over you every waking minute and your older brother wants to ruin your life further and your other brother is Also There In Some Capacity That We Still Don’t Know and the world just keeps turning??????). we’re still learning more and more about jean’s past because of course so many years of abuse will take time to unravel. but jeremy’s voice is so distinct from jean, who is so different from neil. the pacing of these books might not be for everyone and that’s completely fair but it is the best pace for these specific stories. there’s a lot of overlap in the protagonists’ trauma (jean & neil, and jean & jeremy) but the way they go about dealing with it is so different. and that is so hard to do well as a writer so props to her. i think her grasp on her characters’ voice is so impressive.

and i’ve been meaning to say something about nora’s growth as a writer but haven’t had a chance to; gone are the days of (almost) all white cast of main characters! it was a thing she was criticized for with the original trilogy and she took it with a lot of grace. seeing the trojans lineup—the diversity in race, gender, sexuality, religion—and how natural it feels is so refreshing. it doesn’t seem like she was trying to meet a quota. she got something wrong with her debut, she learned, and she made adjustments. i will pointedly not look at another author who is equally popular here and who botched her One (1) canonically black protagonist after being called out for only writing one characters. i don’t know how she’s going to fit the rest of the school year + the moriyama/nathan case into the final book but, as i always say, in nora i trust. she is just so good at knowing exactly what her characters need and not compromising the essence of what makes them so compelling (eg: andrew going to california with kevin despite so many people saying they never want to see that bc of his history with that place. newsflash: the world doesn’t cater to your history. sometimes you have to do hard things. of course it’s andrew and not neil who accompanies kevin. eg: jean saying “have a winning day” despite people wanting a red card for the trojans. and of course it’s rhemann with a steel chair instead). all that to say… 10/10. no notes. excited to see how the exy season plays out bc wdym neil and andrew are both benched for the foreseeable future and the freshmen hate neil 😭 good luck to wymack fr and i pray we get to meet joshua and find out wtf he texted jeremy i’m so sick of guessing at that man’s thoughts even when im in his head like hellooooo

[hourafterhour]

hmmm actually i'd be so interested in hearing about why you hated tsc? i personally didn't hate it but thought it was very flawed and would love to hear your critiques <3

very long below!

starting more generally, i thought the structure of it was bizarre, especially the choice to start it where she did. rehashing the end of TKM in very minute detail from a new pov did nothing for me, and i don't think it's where this part of jean's story "starts" if that makes sense. i found a lot of parts really ham-fisted and poorly written, esp very sloppy/lazy/straight up bad characterization (jeremy giving the homeless man a gift card, lmao); and her reliance on very high drama plot points (surprise secret sister - that was when i could not believe what i was forcing myself to keep reading; also reacher showing up, other parts i've forgotten). i think this approach works so well in aftg, where the melodrama is crucial, but it fails here, and i got the impression that she didn't feel like she was telling (what should have been) a fundamentally different type of story in content and structure than aftg. using any of the very compelling interpersonal dynamics wrt jean in her original trilogy to build drama in a subtler way would have been so much more rewarding imo. "can jean make a life outside the nest” is the built in stakes of the story. can he survive what has happened and what comes next. no need to make it any more dramatic than that - those are pretty high dramatic stakes to me. to give a more specific example, i thought the scene abt jean having to relearn how to check because the way the ravens do it is dangerous was excellent, especially when jeremy explicitly tells him “you’re hurting me” and it’s still unclear if that will be enough to make jean resort to a style of gameplay that’s less effective. this is more along the lines of what i’d hope we’d get from this book — subtle moments that arise from this being a sports narrative and a recovery narrative, and the unique situation of jean being forced into intimacy with a new team (again, a situation that is already so dramatically rich!) 

but my main issue is that I think aftg is a pretty exceptional (and exceptionally unique) trauma narrative, and i think jean’s trauma was poorly written here from start to finish, and pretty unimaginative/cliche. my overwhelming thought while reading it is that it was a really poorly researched book. writing the perspective of a character IMMEDIATELY after release from years of captivity is an extraordinarily difficult task, and the way she tried to account for what his patterns of thinking would have adapted to under those conditions was paltry to me: “I am Jean Moreau. My place is at Evermore. I will endure.” — i was literally rolling my eyes. just a really depressing lack of depth of interiority wrt an experience that was already so rich and subtle in canon. the single line in tkm when abby says he's already tried to escape back to the nest twice was more complex and worth more to me than all of tsc

to give another specific example bc this is one part i remember well, i was so annoyed at the scene when jean offers his racquet to rhemann for punishment. like it's so lazy!!! it's so lazy. jean is not stupid, and i could have believed it if it was written as jean being confused/getting where he was and who he was with mixed up, but a crucial part of the ideology of the nest was that this was not like other teams, and their lifestyle is not ordinary, and this is necessary to make them better than everyone else. jean would be well aware that other people on most other teams do not get physically abused by their coaches, in front of the rest of their teammates, as a matter of course. like maybe that seems nitpicky, but this actually seems so essential to me. and there were so many other moments where it just didn't seem like any meaningful or interesting thought had been paid to how jean would have interpreted his own life, and i hated how she had to make him do things like this to make certain things about his past visible because she couldn't do it in more skillful ways

i was kind of withholding judgement through the first little bit, but the first scene with kevin really solidified that i would not enjoy this book. jean is, what, a few days removed from the nest? i just do not believe (or want to be asked to believe) that he and kevin would be able to articulate any of that by that point, or have the words to discuss these things openly like that already. this was baffling to me because, once again, this is handled really well and compellingly in the original trilogy!!! hence my 40k two months of madness!!!! jean and kevin literally cannot even speak to each other when they see each other at the banquet, to the point where andrew intervenes just to get them to stop watching each other. iirc there was a part in the EC where nora said they don’t have a real conversation till a year (or multiple years?) out of the nest which felt extremely true to me. laila, cat, and jeremy constantly pressing him to express what happened, as if being able to narrativize a traumatic experience is not actively one of the hardest things about recovery, again just felt like lazy writing. everything has to be spoken out loud for it to work here, because she didn’t build conflict in any other way. i actively disliked laila and cat by the end of the book because she had to use them in such annoying and blunt ways to drive the story forward.  

OKAY there is my quota of "joyless hater" for the day... i appreciate you wanting to hear my thoughts!! if you have any thoughts on any of this i'd love to hear them as well. and if you're interested, i'll take the opportunity to rec an academic text on some of these dynamics, Alexandra Stein’s book “Terror, Love, and Brainwashing: Attachment in Cults and Totalitarian Systems"

[hypnostouched]

i forever have dnd brainrot so,,, aftg dnd vibes

Neil is, of course, a rogue. lock picking, quick, lying sneaky lil bastard. In particular I would make him a Mastermind rogue as it comes with disguise profienecy , boosts so lying and vibes of a manipulator. I'd also build him into a wood elf - for the mechanical speed and hide buffs; but id flavour him as a half elf. The Hatford family would be elven and Mary is the one who trained Neil to hide and run. Other than some small things, he would look almost identical to his human father.

Now the Ravens in dnd, to me, are a Paladin order that is a lot more of a defined cult. They'd be a mix of Oath of Glory Paladins (one of their channel divinities is literally called Peerless Athlete) and Oath of Conquest Paladins (Kevin was Glory, Riko is Conquest) Paladins are physical builds with good Charisma and you can think whatever you like about the Ravens, they are charismatic (also to note, intimidation is a charisma skill in dnd)

now Oathbreaker has a very specific vibe but what I will focus on is the feeling of emptiness and darkness that come with it. Kevin is an oathbreaker when he leaves the Ravens, but he won't remain as one indefinitely. He would retake his Oath of Glory when it could mean something different to him (which would align with canon Kevin gtting his new tattoo). For him, being an Oathbreaker is connected to his fear and depression rather than any form of evil (High CHA Kevin is so funny to me bc its canon and i love a CHA build who generally doesnt seem charismatic until they turn it on) Kevin is a high elf seemingly in every way. He took after his mother almost entirely.

As said, Riko is a Conquest Paladin - I would also consider giving him a few levels in Shadow Sorcerer; as something he just is inherently rather than something he's trained to be like Paladin. Riko is also a half elf; most of the Moriyama family are High Elves but his mother was human. Riko can't claim that his family doesnt like him because of this, because Ichirou is also a half elf.

Returning to the foxes--

Andrew is a fighter. Human fighter, a v basic build lmao. he is a champion fighter; he's just a fucking threat.

Nicky is absolutely a bard (glamour). I would love to pitch Nicky as a Satyr because of their interest in freedom, revelry and enjoyment.

(can i just say its so hard to do dnd thoughts when so many characters are related and youre autistic so you have to factor all of that in)

Renee is a Barbarian/Cleric multiclass in the way that she used to be a barbarian and now mostly ignores those abilities to focus on her cleric shit. Light domain cleric. Also she is an air genasi and the colours in her hair are natural and look like the colours of sunset or sunrise on clouds

Dan is also a human fighter but she's a banneret fighter; which has a focus on inspiring allies. Still a threat, just also an inspirational one.

Aaron is a ranger; gloomstalker as he lurks around a lot. Mechanically he wouldn't be as high a level as Andrew. Neil is his favoured enemy.

Matt is a sun soul monk, taught to him by his mother. Bright and also quite scary when he's trying to kill you.

Allison is a bard/fighter multiclass. Similar to Renee, her Bard levels come from before her life with the foxes but she doesn't ignore them like Renee does. Eloquence Bard, champion fighter

[dayurno]

sorryyyy for bringing some type of discourse to your inbox but I just giggle whenever anyone brings up the fact that nora soad andrews a misogynist and their only argument is the fact that he's friends with renee and dating neil who said women are the strongest ppl i know, like i don't personally think he's a misogynist, but i feel like there has to be better arguments for it😭

maybe it's bc the fandom gets on my nerves so I'm more sensitive to any attempts a defanging and making characters more palatable bc I'm not a fan of the widespread fanon versions of the characters also it's sad I feel like the fandom made some sort of progress where discussions were being had about the problems in the series and now after tsc came out it feels like we're back to where the author can do no wrong and it's hard to criticise anything

what do you think about tsc being a triology, I feel like two books can hopefully give Jeremy the depth he needs i remember you found him a bit flat as well when you read the book, I see a lot of people saying he needs to have a mean side or a traumatic past but I feel like a kind, nice character can be interesting without those things and not every kind character needs to have this secret mean side anyway, personally I groaned out loud when I found out it was a triology bc that would mean the fandom would be alive for longer and it's so crazy out of any book fandom I've ever been in for some reason the aftg fandom feels the most obnoxious maybe it's bc the books deal with heavier topics close to the heart so there's more feelings involved🤔the only book fandom who has pissed me off a comparable amount would be asoiaf but that's a whole different thing

I really do try and be happy I'm not even in the fandom anymore and I've never followed aftg twitter accounts and I don't even check the tags I just go on certain blogs but i still see things it's horrible💔like I can't believeeee we're still discussing if Kevins a coward or not and how selfish he is for leaving the nest like we've already argued about this to death on tumblr back in like 2016 now it's the same thing again💔

LOL i understand honestly so many of these discussions are repackaged wide-spread 2015 opinions which don’t reflect the original text that it’s hard to do anything except use the we have this thread every week comrade image and let it go. andrew being misogynistic is not even hard to come to terms with considering it’s not an interpretation or a headcanon it’s the author’s own words and will for the character incorporated into canon. there are things to disagree with nora sakavic for, but ultimately there is a difference between disagreeing with the author and willfully ignoring the intention with which a character was written

& i didn’t really care much for the news, i think the lack of planning and the rushed way the books are coming along are grating on both the author and the fandom, but i don’t blame her for wanting to get this done and over with. it will show more insight on jeremy hopefully, but unfortunately i already don’t care 😭 i think the route tsc took was in general uninteresting and pedestrian enough to not warrant a second thought, and i’m not particularly interested in any plotline beyond what pertains to kevin and the ravens. what surprised me really is the total lack of impact tsc had on the fandom, which is to say, i think it was so in line with the same 3-5 headcanons passed around the last 10 years that it has genuinely done nothing for anyone aside from the people who were already very invested in jean and/or jeremy. it feels like a different fandom from aftg altogether, which i’m happy about if only because it keeps us all locked in different cages, but it still baffles me to see people dedicate so much thought to a book whose characters bar jean are, as of now, the very definition of Nothing burger. all in all the answer to that question and most questions pertaining to tsc is Who cares. because literally who cares

LMFAO staying away from aftg twt is really good for you & honestly all of us. it’s still so funny to me that not even nora sakavic herself wanted to touch that mess. mentally ill white suburbanite teenage shut-in echo chamber ass fandom

[bloody-wonder]

omg im the tsc anon, i literally sent it cause i knew from the past aftg opinions you shared - you'd likely feel similarly to the way i did about tsc

neil outshines jean to such a shocking degree when he only has a handful of scenes... neil is a fantastic protagonist so ofc it's hard to live up to, but come on 😭 jean has such a weaker personality imo? he does/says less interesting things, but also has a less interesting perspective on things. his lack of standing up for himself when the trojans badgered him constantly and talked behind his back bothered me to. can u imagine neils reaction if the foxes had been sharing his secrets over a group chat?

but just in general. tsc felt like a sanitised version of aftg, if that makes sense? scrubbed clean of the controversial and unconventional aspects. and it's those aspects that, in my opinion, played a huge part in what made aftg so good. noras a very talented writer, but i can not comprehend the decision to make tsc... all that it was, yknow? it feels almost like it was written for the 'andreil say ily' part of the fandom...

neil really saved this book for me icl. outsider pov of him is fascinating. and while andrew barely said/did anything even when he was there, i actually kinda liked that? it puts into perspective how ig off-putting andrew can appear to those who don't put in the effort with him. 'creepy little goalkeeper' is so funny and so accurate, he IS a creepy little goalkeeper and i love that for him.

idk, some things i had anticipated - the trojans being who they are were never going to match the foxes. jeremy x jean was never going to match andreil (and ive seen ppl comparing them already... the blasphemy.) but there were things i was surprised weren't there. i had expected kevin and jeans relationship to be a lot more tense ig? i had thought jean would harbor a MUCH deeper resentment towards kevin, but i suppose its just not his character? but when i was reading, i couldn't help asking what would the fan reaction had been if that had been the case? if kevin and jeans past relationship, and places in a cult hierarchy, had shown through in a much uglier and uncomfortable way? i can see why she didn't do that, i don't even necessarily want that, i think i was just desperate for this book to have some sort of deep conflict between the characters.

on the subject, kevin felt quite different from how he was in aftg. but i can't quite put my finger on why.

anyway, it is nice to see someone else have mixed feelings towards the book. i enjoyed it, but i was shocked how many people seemed to really love it. not because it was bad. but because, to me, it was so fundamentally different from aftg.

thank you for sharing your thoughts! i suspected you might have written me bc i used to be the resident notorious contrarian of the fandom lol

yeah neil is a textbook example of a protag who drives the plot forward, he has that main character energy which jean totally lacks which makes sense since jean was originally a minor side character. at the same time the differences in their characterization make complete sense in universe due to the different ways they were brought up and the different trauma they faced. so it all comes down to each reader's personal preference: for me, neil's arc is a self-indulgent power fantasy. i think i have a strong sense of self and when i can't achieve something it's due to circumstances so far out of my control it's impossible to overcome them. it's therefore very satisfying to read about neil facing impossible odds and winning thanks to the sheer force of his personality, whereas jean's way of dealing with trauma feels less fun by comparison. but other readers can relate to him more and all the power to them. i do however think tsc does a disservice to its new characters by opening with a rather lengthy recap of how cool the foxes were in the last act of tkm and closing on a chapter where neil comes along and reminds us who the real hero of this story is🤷‍♀️

i don't think tsc has been entirely scrubbed clean of controversial aspects - i saw plenty of reviews complaining about the amount of dark content (in book 4 of a series known for its dark content, le gasp) - but i do think the handling of certain things was less nuanced than in aftg. for instance, both stories have a plot bit about someone unknowingly exposing a character to their abuser which leads to them being retraumatized (jean himself comments on the similarities between drake and grayson). in aftg that someone is nicky - a person andrew knows and trusts, a person the readers grew to care about (lol not me but certainly some other readers) - so his role in the tragic sequence of events is that much more upsetting. rape and abuse is terrible but the fact that a person who means well can exacerbate the issues bc they don't have the framework to understand the other person - that hits so much harder for me personally. so in the end drake is just an evil rapist but nicky is a much more nuanced character bc through him nora questions whether being nice and having good intentions is enough, whose feelings should be centered on in such a complex situation, whose emotional needs should be prioritized etc. by contrast, in tsc that person is lucas - someone we basically just met, who is nothing more than an antagonistic stranger to jean and who we therefore don't care about. which is why when he leads grayson to jean it's like, first of all, duhh. but secondly, bc it happens against the backdrop of the other ("good") trojans' cheerfully patronizing attitude it doesn't come so much as a shocking twist that puts the ways how we deal with complex trauma into an unconventional perspective than as a culmination of everyone disrespecting jean's boundaries all the time - which is likely what nora intended but the overall constellation feels much less interesting to me.

ig this ties into your point about the book lacking the kind of deep conflict aftg had - but maybe that was intentional too, maybe it's supposed to be aftg light in that sense, sort of a post canon character study fic. which i am not opposed to, not everything has to be high plot and tension and grey morality, but unfortunately the emotional core the story relies on in the absence of the plot just didn't work for me. i can accept jean's "weaker" personality, i can understand him not being able to stand up for himself even tho i can't admire it, but i draw the line at how forced his friendship with jeremy and the girls ended up feeling. like, i still can't get over cat's sex toy joke right on the heels of jean being badgered into admitting he had been sexually abused - the info which jeremy promptly spilled to the girls. if something like that happened to me i would never be able to trust these people again, much less call them friends so soon. it's such a bizarre contrast between how neil joining the monsters in tfc despite their problematic initiation rituals feels valid bc the narrative earned it both plot-wise (we're now facing a bigger enemy together) and character-wise (neil pushing back, talking about why they did it, nicky apologizing) on the one hand - and how jean accepting jeremy, cat and laila as his new friends feels rushed and artificial despite them being so very nice and domestic and wholesome on the other hand. idk maybe it's bc i'm inherently skeptical about disingenuous cozy/hopepunk subgenres in modern lit bc they usually have a darker underbelly people are loath to confront but ngl the words sanitized and conventional did come to mind while reading and so did the idea that tsc will especially appeal to a certain subset of fans which found the (at times uncomfortable) complexity of the original trilogy too much to handle. well, i hope they're enjoying their fantasy of healing a survivor of cptsd by cooking and shopping and hugs - i certainly got to enjoy mine in aftg, there's plenty to go around lol

besides, tsc being so different/separate from aftg makes it really easy to just not engage with the fan content and discussions if it starts feeling like they veer into the annoying territory too much. tbh my primary concern when tsc was announced was that it could contain some retcons about andreil and aftg which i wouldn't agree with - and that didn't happen, my boys are still very much in character, so i can just retreat to my enclosure and leave tsc to jean stans who are its main target audience in any case.

[rikomoriyama01]

okay anon from that one ask you reblogged i think i might have worded that a little wrong. its less about prettying him up or making fun content of him and more of a lot of people with few select exceptions either ignoring riko as a character because hes a bad person (majority) or ignoring rikos actions (which i have seen, though not often at all). i personally love your riko content, youre like one of the only people in the aftg fandom not afraid to do anything with him and explore his character. and this is not an attack on you or how you see riko but i wish more people took the time to analyze him. i have so many thoughts about riko that i’m afraid to say in case of backlash, but i really wish there was more content only how other people see him too. i mean i get it hes a bad person and people dont like him but hes also a character. he isnt real riko moriyama will not jump you if you talk about him. sorry if that doesnt make sense when i sent that ask it was not about you at all

hi! please do not take my messages as some attempt at discourse i just believe that topics like this should not be left vague because different people put different amount of attachment to details [me for example due to my history in this fandom i do get pretty sensitive when vague things are said this way so i might have taken the general conversation personally but hey i am defensive of my little menace! someone has to! ] I'm glad you enjoy my stuff! > i have so many thoughts about riko that i’m afraid to say in case of backlash Feel free to spam my inbox or i can add you on discord dm? i love talking about the lil bitch!!!! >or ignoring riko's actions (which i have seen, though not often at all) see this is the thing i am interested in because i OBSESSIVELY follow riko content , i spend DAYS brushing riko moriyama tag and digging up bunch of old abandoned blogs and i just never saw someone make claims like this! (id know i woudl def try to make friend with them lmao) I'm sorry if my approach to this case is dismissive maybe i really missed it but it kind of just feels like generalization of people saying ,, he did nothing wrong" as a meme , nobody who can read would actually genuinely believe this But please let me just say up front - i like talking about things and having discussion its not argument drama or discourse okay? no hard feelings anywhere , i really really am happy to be proved wrong (bc this means there is riko content somewhere out there i had not found yet GIVE ME )

[futureseaempress]

20 Questions for Fic Writers

hi so my sweetheart tagged me in this @hypnostheory so thank u bb

1. How many works do you have in Ao3?

27 (teehee that's my fave number) (i also have like two more on a google drive that are wips,,, some princes don't become kings & first date which is called nastygum in like all my notes)

2. What’s your total Ao3 word count? 163,308 which is like longer than twilight i think

3. What fandoms do you write for?

Homestuck, AFTG, SK8 the Infinity, TMA, Stardew Valley, RWRB, and uhhh law and order svu

4. What are your top five fics by kudos?

honey, why're you calling me so late? (matchablossom)

about to bloom (matchablossom)

baby kiss it better (first prince)

i only want what i can't have (first prince)

as certain dark things are to be loved (jonmartin)

5. Do you respond to comments? Why or why not?

i would love to but sometimes i just don't have anything to say

6. What is the fic you wrote with the angstiest ending?

uhhhhh i don't think any of my fics have super angsty endings-- fanning the flame was supposed to end with a super sad chapter about agnes and jack but i never wrote it lmao maybe i'll get back to her in november

7. What’s the fic you wrote with the happiest ending?

ummmm i try to end everything on a loving/happy note bc that's what i like to read most

i think asking you to stay has like the cheesiest last line

8. Do you get hate on fics?

uh not yet thank goodness. i used to back in my wattpad days though and i did have someone say something kinda off color to me in a writing exchange but that worked itself out

9. Do you write smut? If so, what kind?

because it's most of what i read i try to include like a horny scene in most if not all of my stuff but i like anything rlly i sort by ship, explicit, and go from there I think "Coming In Pants" is a frequent flyer.

10. Do you write crossovers? If so, what’s your craziest one?

Nope. Not my cup of tea. OH MY GOD ACTUALLY I'M A LIAR IN 2012 I HAD A ONE DIRECTION RPF TWILIGHT FANFIC? THAT I NEVER POSTED AND SOLELY EXISTED IN MY NOTES APP THAT MY FRIEND AND I WOULD LIKE ROLEPLAY???? seventh grade was wild for me

11. Have you ever had your fic stolen?

YEP! both my current fanfic and my older stuff like i had a terrible homestuck fanfic on wattpad that someone reposted saying mine was too smutty and then on ao3 there is a fic,,, that,,, very heavily seems to draw from baby kiss it better but idk maybe henry wearing alex's white t shirt and a taylor swift cardigan while sick before alex blows him is just reaaally common

12. Have you ever had a fic translated?

nope

13. Have you ever co-written a fic before?

so other than some garbage i was writing in middle school no, but i do for sure like let my partner beta everything and we run ideas by each other all the time and like work out how to block stuff and what seems interesting they keep me from going to melodramatic and i help them know what sex sounds fun

14. What’s your all time favorite ship?

oh god i can't choose. i love davekat, but i love alex and henry a lot. like a lot. like wow i loved the book last year and the movie has given me brain worms and there's other karkat ships i rlly like. hmmm okay i have two hands and i hold my sons Crabapple and Firstprince.

15. What’s a WIP you want to finish but probably never will?

so many davekat wips

the sweet home alabama fic for sure.

the nanny au. uh the other davekat band au that's just a draft... probably fanning the flame. there's also a coda for more silver paint that haunts me.

16. What are your writing strengths?

uhhhhh i think i'm good at banter? (see echoed through my mind) i think i'm good at like making stuff fit into canon and comply with it in fun ways (see this hope is). i think i'm good at writing characters having break downs (see chapter 3 of silver paint or going with the flow)

17. What are your writing weaknesses?

I SUCK SO BAD AT FINISHING THINGS AND I GET STUCK ON MY PORN EVERY TIME

also commas

18. Thoughts on writing dialogue in another language in fic?

bafhehasdk so like it's kinda a pet peeve a lot of the times i feel like spanish especially ends up reading kind of like Law and Order dialogue like "he trabajo'ed here last week" but i eat that shit up in theory. like people would probs do better throwing random french in shit bc my ass would be like SOUNDS RIGHT TO ME. it's also like cultural references get lost and i know just enough spanish to know when something is "off" so i prefer like "This is a line of dialogue," they said in Spanish.

19. First fandom you wrote for?

Homestuck! on wattpad! in 2012! it was bad mpreg! i was 13!!

TMA on ao3! in like 2020

but i did once write a one direction rpf with my friend that we posted on instagram in 2011

20. Favorite fic that you’ve written?

oh god i don't know. i think it's gotta be glory just bc i spent so long with it and i'm hoping to finish it during november (i do nanowrimo in a crazy bass ackwards way) but tire trouble is like the one everyone else loves best??? and i have a sequel in the works for it im just super into rwrb rn

I’m tagging @wardenhawke bc i feel like you might like talking about your ocs at least and i like u

[crisis-exystencial]

Nice to know you're enjoying it!!! And yes, 🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰 Jeremy 🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰

I get what you mean about letting the readers' mind fill what could've happened at Evermore instead of having Jean detail it all, but i liked that we got to see all that from Jean's POV. Maybe if this were not aftg, i would've liked it your way bc i do find it interesting, but this being the series that it is, i think i would've seen it as the author being lazy or not bold enough to write about Riko's torments. In this particular case (and in my own opinion), the way it was done felt more like Nora's style. When Neil wasn't being secretive, he was quite descriptive with what he had been through (his childhood, evermore, Lola's torture), and i expected she'd do something similar with Jean.

It might also be that i consider TSC like a different series, not exactly part of aftg even though you really can't read TSC without reading the first three books, so i agree with the choice to not rely on Neil's recounts of his stay at Evermore to cover the details of Jean's life there.

Regarding the rate in which all this is revealed, in the original trilogy, both Neil's and Andrew's traumas are revealed slowly because they're both secretive. Eveyone at the Nest knew what they were doing to Jean, so not only is he not used to keeping secrets, he does not feel the need to hide what he went through. And that's only about what was inflicted to him that he knows was wrong, a large part of his abuse he believes is normal behavior in a team, so why wouldn't he talk casually about it?

I think these two ways of revealing a character's past (Neil vs Jean) show two different types of narrators. We also have Jeremy who like Neil leaves crumbs of what his life outside of exy is like, but does not actually delve much into it.

About the pacing, i felt the same way as you do. When i first read TSC, I remember feeling like not much was happening at the beginning, like Jean spent too many chapters recovering in Palmetto and the plot was not going forward, but that was a problem with my own expectations about the book. I had read many Jerejean fanfics that started with Jean arriving in LA, so seeing that in TSC that doesn't happen until like halfway through the book made me anxious about when the "real" plot would begin. On the other hand, the first book of the original trilogy is also mainly introductory, so in my head it makes sense that TSC would also feel like that.

About Cat and Laila... one might consider them as bland, or like they're just the blueprint of a character and i would agree, except in my reread i found some bits that i originally ignored that made me start to wonder and theorize about their pasts. Remains to be seen if im right or if Nora will even touch these tiny seeds she seems to have planted (but knowing her, everything she writes is intentional so i have high hopes).

These are some of my objective and critical opinions btw. The truth is i loved every single word in TSC as well as TGR, im just too involved with these characters and Nora's writing. Nora could've taken Jean's story whichever way she wanted and it's very likely i would've still enjoyed it.

I have some other thoughts about TSC, but they might be considered spoilers so im not going to mention them :)

Hi!! I saw that you started reading tsc. I've been waiting to hear your thoughts on it for months! what do you think so far??

(ngl im slightly scared of your answer, but please dont hold back)

"I'm slightly scared of your answer" ooooh music to my ears! (Or...eyes). JK, but, genuinely, thank you so much for this ask!!!

Sorry for how long it's gonna be

okay so

I'm having fun!! I forgot how much All For The Game with its bonkers plot. I reaaaalllyyy love Jeremy. I love how normal he is. Just a good man who wants to have a good time. I love how gentle he is, and I really enjoy his interactions with Jean.

Here's my problems:

I feel like there is too much information about Jean's past. In every chapter of his, there are like, 10 flashbacks, which personally take me out of the story. We know what Evermore is like because Neil was there, so we don't really need to hear about every punishment Jean received. I think sometimes it's better to let the readers' imagination go wild. And also that I prefer it when characters' trauma is revealed slowly. (think about how long it took Neil to learn what happened to Andrew and how the conversation about the word "please" was so much more impactful than anything else). In the Jeremy's chapters, the dialogue between him and Jean reveal a lot of fucked up things Jean was put through. And I feel like it's actually much more interesting to read because (1) you have a character already analyzing these details, and (2) it's like, really eerie things.

My friend argued that it's like that because Jean is overflowing. This is a good point, but idk if it satisfies me because Idk if being overwhelmed from all this trauma actually looks like that. But I've never been in a cult.

I really don't like how Laila and Cat treat him. I don't like how they constantly ask him about his obvious trauma and force him to heal. But I do kinda like how oblivious he is to just how fucked up what happened to him was.

I feel like the pacing in this book is kinda off because I'm halfway through, and Jean has been with the Trojans for about 2 days. The entire plot so far has been "people forcing Jean to see how fucked up his life had been" and nothing else. it's a fair narrative choice, but idk if I necessarily like it.

I'm still giggling and kicking my feet at some of the interactions between Jean and Jeremy though

[i-did]

hi hello i couldn't sleep last night so i was scrolling thru all ur asks and stuff and ur opinions and analyses are so interesting!!! and then afterwards i was thinking about what u were saying about mlm smut and i'd also been thinking about such things a little bit recently bc like.....at a certain point it becomes quite clear that the vast majority of smut-writing is just imitation. like there's the sex noise verb list and all and the whole general mechanics of the sex and those things just .... replicate over and over. and the whole thing w people writing mlm vs wlw smut regardless of their own sexual orientation..... like i feel like a big part of that is just a self-perpetuating thing. like if u have not had sex and u r getting all ur (pleasure-related) sex ed from fandom (even if u do watch porn, that doesn't rlly tell u how to describe stuff? idk) regardless of What fandom , the majority is going to be mlm smut. which is itself majority imitation of other mlm smut, imitating and imitating back to whoever knows what the first smut fanfic was etc. there's just way More to mimic than there is on the women side of things. which then becomes a self-perpetuating thing, bc the mimicry continues and generates more and more. and---if there are fundamental misunderstandings of anatomy involved---those self-perpetuate as well. and maybe even exaggerate. and yeah. does this all make sense? idk i was just thinking about it. like all the stereotypes and stuff continue bc writers are getting their inspo from other writers rather than their own brains. or something. idk!!!!! it's just all... divorced from reality? bc words. or something!! i hope u get what i'm trying to say. just thoughts i've been thinking. anyway i think ur thoughts are cool. and ur writing. ok bye have a good day!!

Okay yeah this is kinda messy but hope u see this, uhh yeah I think you're right about the echo chamber effect fr about stuff. I think it's a mix of projecting too sometimes. talk more under the cut and also link to a video essay since I love video essays.

Here’s a video that sort of touches on this topic: 

“Gay fanfiction” by Sarah Z. (has CC)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8E_C00dKwI

This video begins to talk about fetishization at the end, but also… not really. The words “gay fanfiction” is used as a catchall, when really gay fanfiction is largely mlm written by non-mlm.

Fandom is a largely women's space dominated by the female gaze in a media industry world that is dominated by men and the male gaze. I'm really glad women have this space to explore creativity and queerness, and I don't expect the female gaze to go away, but I am still ultimately bummed out I can’t read most fanfic or interact with most fandom spaces without having fetishization in my face. 

So about 80% of fandom is women, and most of those women aren't straight, but 90% of those women prefer mlm ships. Why don’t they prefer wlw ships? Well definitely part of it is the fact that queerbaiting is centered around white straight men, and then there is also the fact that women tend not to be written as well charcter wise. But the fact still remains that you get jerjean getting priority over Layla and Alvarez who are in canon just as much and are a canon wlw couple who actually interact as well as Alvarez could likely be a woc because of her Hispanic last name. Korasami doesn’t get nearly as much hype as zuko and saka, despite the fact that they are 2 fully dimensional characters who canonly kiss and hold hands, something the creators fought for and ended up having to sacrifice another reboot for. 

I do believe the fandom echo-chamber is largely responsible for… a lot of things, like you're saying. But what's interesting is that the complaints I've heard about visual porn from non mlm in the fandom space is that they can’t get off to it because its for the male gaze and misogynistic usually. But they also don't seem to notice how the mlm smut circles has the female gaze and is also… almost always mlm. If it was a pure anatomical not knowing thing, I get that, but I also think that leads to the question of “then why the male body for porn, and not your own? The one you know and are familiar with?” 

I know some people want to get outside of their own body for porn and don’t want to think of their own anatomy at all, but overall I'm still uncomfortable. If an anglo said “well I watch porn of only Mexicans so I don't self insert” I'm gonna be like … hhhh in a similar way. I understand people “like what they like” but I wish they also noticed said patterns in the first place. I understand the t4t tumblr porn circle, and how it's different from cis people who only watch trans porn. 

I actually wished that instead of fandom focusing on mlm ships where some asshole guy hits on bottom troupe charcter for top troupe character to save, was instead… a wlw character experiencing said shitty getting hit on and other wlw swooping in. what's interesting is fandom writes a lot about misogynistic experiences without often realizing it. Ive read fanfic where guys get called sluts for sleeping with people or called bitch for speaking their mind, these arent things men usually experience, but rather women. Fandom has a lot of internalized misogyny and also queerphobia imo. Women characters often get pushed to the sidelines and men become the canvas for female fans to project onto. 

There is this natural inclination to mlm. When people are talking about “gay shipping” or “gay books” or “gay feels” or even just “gay” mlm is what’s largely in mind. I honestly am kinda saddened by this because if gay fanfiction was really solely about writing more to feel represented, then you would see a lot of bi and ace and lesbian rep, but this isn't the case. Queer women are seriously underrepresented, and I want to hear their stories and read them in fanfiction as well as published. 50% of lgbt literature is mlm, and of that its largely written by women. Becky Albertalli, Rainbow Rowell, Maggie Stiefvater, are the YA big names and are all women writing mlm. Red white and royal blue is written by Casey McQuiston and Captive prince (which is not YA) is written by C. S. Pacat, who is non-binary, but is also TME and not mlm. These are all the big names in mlm lit, behind them is some gay men, but honestly their stories aren't preferred, they're not the right “flavor” for the consumers usually, who are largely women. In general YA consumers and authors are women, but I wish that they… just wrote about women too. I think there is a certain… snowball effect to the overrepresentation of mlm representing the whole LGBT community that leads to fetishization, as well as misogyny playing a factor in: less women characters being written well to write fanfic on, when they are written well they're taken less seriously or the audience struggles to relate to them, they're less marketable then men. 

Idk I never feel “seen” or “represented” by any of the books above, which don't address boyhood and manhood and queerness intersecting really, and AFTG doesn’t either. I relate to AFTG as a trauma victim who has experienced a lot of what many of the characters go through and have gone through in the EC as well as them just overall being very well written characters, but I don't relate to it as a mlm really. I've never seen like.. gay voice or being straight passing or femphobia or how boyhood can be affected from a young age by those around you sensing you're ‘other’ or if you didn't experience this you feel outside the mlm community. Let alone sub cultures like bear and leather and pup, at most you see the word “he's such a twink” in fandom which... i fr hate non mlm using that word because it's usually used to replace the f-slur essentially, used derogatorily or to call him “such a bottom” and stuff like that. It’s like a joke or an insult.

Long story short, idk mang this was a ramble and I think I'm coning down with something. I wanna see more queer women rep and women authors writing about being a queer woman too. I think it's a complex web of fetishization and a bit of forbidden love yaoi culture (or it used to be in the BOYXBOY days) as well as misogyny on an industry level, creator level, as well as reader/consumer and fandom level. I don’t think it’s inherently wrong to explore other peoples stories and what we read has to be segregated, “only mlm are allowed to read and write mlm, only wlw are allowed to read and write wlw,” but I also think author’s intent and audience and background is telling, as well as overall statistics. Like about an hour ago I was looking for cookbooks in spanish or in english, and I was looking for some mexican food cook books, but I had to look for them using words in spanish because otherwise what came up was a bunch of “fiesta party, easy as uno dos tres authentic cooking!” and I was like… hm. Since I could tell they were marketing to anglos. (also the author’s last names were like michelle smith, james cooper, and this could be for a variety of reasons, but I trust Hispanic names more tbh and deadass would look at the authors pictures and if they had other books in Spanish or what their specialties were.)

anyways. not sure how to end this. uhm if anyone has any book recs (my to read list is like 500 books tho no joke) preferably not YA white mlm written by a white lady, hopefully queer women written by queer woman, LMK, I need more wlw and queer women stories on my list. I have a decent amount but always looking for more. I kinda wanna link my goodreads or my storygraph but I also don't want to get doxxed and it has my legal name on it so.

Also, I'm dyslexic and using spell check but if there's like some wild typos my b.

[lolainslackss]

tagged by @jsteneil & @annawrites <3

Rules: Go to your works page, expand all the filters, and answer all of the following questions!

1. What’s your first and second most common work ratings? ◦Teen And Up (17) ◦General (5)

2. What’s your most common archive warning? Least common? Do you consider yourself an adventurous writer? ◦No Archive Warnings Apply (22) is the most common ◦Major Character Death (1) is the least common

I try to experiment with style/genre so ehhhh I guess? I tend to overthink what i’m creating/posting tho, so maybe that curbs how adventurous I am

3. How many fics have you written in each relationship category? Is this more accidental, or do you have preferences? ◦M/M (26) ◦Gen (8) ◦F/F (2) ◦F/M (1)

like anna said, I think this is just bc my current OTP is m/m. before writing for aftg, I wrote for a fandom where all my fics were f/m. just depends what i’m drawn to, I guess!

4. What are your top 4 fandoms by numbers? Are you still active in any of them, and do you tend to migrate a lot? ◦All For The Game - Nora Sakavic (27)

lmao any other fandoms I've written for i’m no longer active in and the fics are attached to one of my three ff.net accounts

5. What are your top 4 character tags? Does this match how you feel about the characters, or are you puzzled? ◦Nicky Hemmick (10) ◦Kevin Day (8) ◦Aaron Minyard (7) ◦Neil Josten (5)

hahaha again, like anna said, this is v. misleading bc i usually don’t tag characters if i’ve already tagged the relationship. this kinda makes sense since I like to write andreil + the monsters. I thought Allison would maybe make the cut bc apart from nicky, she’s my fave to write.

Bonus, top 4 relationships tagged: ◦Neil Josten/Andrew Minyard (26) ◦Neil Josten/Jean Moreau (2) ◦Kevin Day & Neil Josten (2) ◦then a buuuunch @ one (1) fic each, including renison, nerik, katelyn/aaron, etc

andreil is life

6. What are your top 2 most used additional tags, and your bottom 2? What would happen if you combined all 4 of these into a fic?

top two are: ◦Post-Canon (9) ◦Canon-Typical Violence (5)

& bottom two are: ◦Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence (3) ◦Porn with Feelings (3)

and these would make a terrible combo?!

7. How many WIPs do you have currently running on AO3? Any you don’t plan on finishing?

one actively - the HP AU. it’s not abandoned but i’m not working on it either. I've left crush lowkey open for more bc i could potentially write more, but it’s not exactly a wip.

8. Tag people!

i tag @cosyblack & @hi-raethia & @fuzzballsheltiepants & @petalplate & anyone else who wants to

[straight-as-my-spine]

I posted 1,165 times in 2021

47 posts created (4%)

1118 posts reblogged (96%)

For every post I created, I reblogged 23.8 posts.

I added 69 tags in 2021

#reading - 15 posts

#books - 8 posts

#podcast related - 8 posts

#new episode - 6 posts

#podcast - 6 posts

#ya books - 6 posts

#atla - 5 posts

#aftg - 5 posts

#xialing - 5 posts

#one last stop - 5 posts

Longest Tag: 136 characters

#i watched x-men recently and the only scene i ever quote is making the gurgling noises when the senator pulls a wicked witch of the west

My Top Posts in 2021

#5

so I just watched the percy jackson movie and WHAT THE FUCK??? I had been warned by many on how bad it was but I wasn't expecting the absolute trainwreck that it was

- the stupid clicky pen is a safety hazard do you know how many times percy would have started like clicking it and stabbed himself by accident because that's what I would have done - why the fuck do all the gods look so stupid - their hair should be longer and cooler - i saw no orange t-shirts - SEAN BEAN AS ZEUS???? - THEY FUCKING CARRIED AROUND UMA THURMAN'S HEAD FOR THE WHOLE MOVIE LIKE WHAT THE FUCK - how did the hydra see through the wall of flame it was shooting to see uma thurman's decapitated head and turn to stone it couldn't fucking see her - why can they drive - they're all like 12 how did they not get arrested - clearly the mist didn't exist bc people could see the uma thurman head and didn't think it was like a basketball or something - how the fuck did annabeth survive that with her hair down the whole time - that shit would have gotten burned off or tangled so fucking fast - OH MY GOD I FORGOT PERCY'S CABIN - AND THEY ALL ARE LIKE "OH YEAH THIS KID IS FROM POSIEDON" AND HE DOESN'T EVEN GET CLAIMED DURING CAPTURE THE FLAG - WHERE WAS CLARISSE I WANTED TO SEE PERCY GET HAZED - the stupid flying shoes battle at the end was so weird

there are more thoughts but i don't feel like writing them all out. and if i hadn't read the books and seen this movie i would have been so fucking confused

13 notes • Posted 2021-10-30 13:49:12 GMT

#4

girl help im experiencing intense wanderlust and longing for adventure and there is nowhere for it to go

18 notes • Posted 2021-10-11 01:10:46 GMT

#3

THE NEW OWL HOUSE EPISODE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AMITY DYED HER HAIR PURPLE SO MUCH MUTUAL BLUSHING AND THE FUCKING PECK ON THE CHEEK AT THE END I THINK I'M GONNA EXPLODE FROM THE GAY

18 notes • Posted 2021-07-10 14:41:09 GMT

#2

does anybody else think *my chemical youtube* whenever they see mcyt or is that just me???

21 notes • Posted 2021-06-14 19:11:35 GMT

#1

I just finished reading When Villains Rise by Rebecca Schaeffer, and I am just wowed because that was a fucking good book, and I will probably do an episode on my thoughts on the whole Market of Monsters series because I have many thoughts that I need to get out.

(and if you want to read these if you haven't yet, trigger warnings for copious amounts of graphic violence and all the fun stuff you'd get in a book about selling body parts on the internet)

38 notes • Posted 2021-06-16 22:05:06 GMT

Get your Tumblr 2021 Year in Review →

[bloody-wonder]

just some thoughts on aftg, aspec rep & acephobia

so last weekend i went to my first pride and it’s strange to think that i wouldn’t be here now, identifying as queer and understanding much more about myself, without aftg. i mean, i guess i would’ve found out about the ace spectrum sooner or later but i don’t think i’d have realized i’m on it if i hadn’t met neil and experienced this story through his pov. which is why in this post i want to address the so-called acephobic scenes in aftg and how they factor into aftg as a book with aspec rep.

the scenes in question are basically some casual comments made by aftg characters about neil’s love life (or rather absence thereof), most notably nicky repeatedly refusing to acknowledge that neil doesn’t “swing”. i don’t want to list them all bc i’ve seen other people do it already, and although these fans are doing the lord’s educational work out there, in all the instances when i’ve seen these posts they seem to imply that aftg is acephobic either for featuring these comments in the first place or for not having the characters who made them explicitly called out by the story. this made me think about why i wouldn’t prefer it any other way.

so the first argument i just want to dismiss out of hand bc it’s kinda childish - having x-phobic statements in a book doesn’t automatically make this book x-phobic. besides, nora is aroace and although people can have internalized phobias of their own identites i don’t think that’s the case here. moving on to the second argument which is “you’re only allowed to have x-phobic comments in your book if the narrative explicitly frames them as wrong, for example by having the characters who made them be punished or learn to do better”. i can see where this one is coming from and yet it still reminds me of a first grader picture book storytelling formula. 

when i read aftg for the first time, even without knowing anything about the ace spectrum i still perceived these comments as wrong. during subsequent re-reads, after a bit of research and self-discovery, i undetstood why exactly they seemed wrong to me but i’ve only ever felt good about them being there bc they showcase vividly what it feels like to be subjected to casual acephobia in day-to-day life. and it has never even occured to me that these scenes might be harmful on the meta-level just bc the story doesn’t draw out attention to them and say “kids don’t do this, this is wrong” in a stern voice.

however, i do understant that the purpose of these lines can go over many (most?) readers’ heads or be misconstrued by them - just bc they aren’t in the know about the ace agenda. that’s why i think it’s important to write fandom meta about them. no one can know everything all the time and it’s okay to rely on other more knowledgeable people for additional information. but the question is, should this educational work instead be done by the book itself? is it a moral obligation of authors to put disclaimers before any potentially controversial scene lest some readers think the book normalizes problematic behaviours? does aftg normalize acephobia bc at no point in the story do the foxes learn about asexuality and apologize to neil? i guess you can tell from my tone that i believe the answers are no, no and no. but that’s only bc, for better or for worse, i have faith in human intellect and critical thinking skills.

since i started identifying as aroace, i’ve read several other books with aspec rep. one thing some of them have in common - with each other but not with aftg - is that labels are used on page, typically in conversations where the aspec character has to explain to the others what all of this means using phrases like “oh it’s when you don’t feel sexual attraction to any person of any gender”. and i don’t want to criticize these books or imply in any way that they do aspec rep wrong, to each their own, but i must confess, when i imagine myself from two years ago reading such a book with an ace character who feels more like a wikipedia entry, i just go hmm,, okay ://

by contrast, with neil you don’t know that he’s on the ace spectrum unless you know. neither the characters nor the readers are owed an explanation or a label by him. neil just exists, he lives out his identity, his aceness is in everything he is and does - and you either get it or you don’t. it’s like an inside joke, the kind that would only be spoiled by explaining it.